如野草般野蛮生长：用好奇心打破教育与阶层偏见

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: In your work as an educator, curiosity plays a very interesting role. Can you talk a little bit about how curiosity shows up in the work that you do?

Stephen Nobles: So in the work that we do, it's important for curiosity to be there. It gives us the opportunity to see things not just how they are, but how they can be. And we're learning, in our district, that with curiosity, when students feel seen, once they feel heard, once they feel empowered, they'll engage, they'll connect to the work, and then the attendance shows up and then the performance follows the attendance. So it requires us to follow, like the great 21st-century English philosopher Ted Lasso puts it, to be curious and not judgmental. And in our district, our work requires us to not be judgmental.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: And can you talk a little bit about the bridge between curiosity and courage? How do you help people move past, I guess, what might be the fear of failure to really engage with curiosity?

Stephen Nobles: If you get curiosity right, it's the bridge between our differences. It turns it into dialogue. So you want to be able to see kids and meet them where they are, but that requires you to see them with a lens of expectation and opportunity without the judgment. And for us, one of the things that's important, that I'm always pushing my colleagues to see, is that we have to see students beyond the data. A fact with that is if a kid lives in poverty, they're not poor. Their parents are poor and they live with them. The same way, if a kid's parents are rich, they're not rich. Their parents are rich and they live with them. So with that, all of the data, all of the characteristics of poverty, place it on the parents and not the student. See them through the lens of what's possible, and then they usually rise to the occasion.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: (Applause) This moment we're living in, it's sometimes really easy for people to sort of double down on what their feelings are, to be more certain about where they stand in the world instead of asking people how they feel, what they think, to be curious. How important do you think curiosity is as a life skill for all of us in this moment?

Stephen Nobles: I think it's very important. I can only imagine a world where we celebrate not just the answers, but the best questions. Because we live in this data-driven society, if the data is right, it should propose better questions. It should ask us to dive in deeper. And that requires genuine curiosity. And curiosity, when put in the right place, builds connection. Connection builds friendship and partnership. That's the bridge toward a brighter future, especially in a world where everyone is so quick to give you a certain answer and they just say it with such confidence. But curiosity is the thing that gives us humility and empathy, and that's the thing that we need to move forward, not just in education, but as a world, in my humble opinion.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Well, you said this earlier that curiosity can turn disagreement into dialogue. Can you talk a little bit about how that's shown up in the classrooms you've been in, with students and what you've learned about the importance of curiosity for bridging a divide?

Stephen Nobles: Yeah, so a good example is we started a TED-Ed student talk program in our district. We started that program at one of the middle schools, well we started at an elementary school, but last year we did it at one of our middle schools. And it's a kind of tough middle school. So when we get into this space, I'm telling the adults, before we get in here, do not judge these kids. We're not going to put barriers or parameters on what they can speak on, who they are, what they can do. Let's just give them the space to be themselves without judgment. So we have this student who comes up -- Jordan's, skinny jeans, dreads, hair in his face, hoodie on, looks like he’s not engaged -- he’s over here writing to himself, and he comes up and he’s like, “What do you want to talk about? What are you interested in speaking on?” His topic was trash in space. He was interested in discussing what would happen if the trash that's orbiting Earth, from damaged satellites and different things in space, was able to be pulled into our gravitational pull. What that would mean. No adult expected that. Everyone was shocked that this kid was interested in what happens if trash is pulled into our orbit. To me, we were able to have that experience by just remaining curious, to not judge them, to not guide him, to just give him the space and then the tools to meet the standard. And he met the standard. He actually surprised us. And my relationship with that kid is still growing now. He’s in high school now, and every time I see him he’s always ... going to lock in. I can't wait to see who he becomes.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: I mean, that's interesting. It leads to this other idea of what happens when one person is curious about someone else and sort of how that spreads in a space.

Stephen Nobles: Yeah, it's contagious.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Can you talk a little bit about how you've seen curiosity impact other people? Being curious about one person impacts other people in a space.

Stephen Nobles: So it's kind of like the way that sports works. The students were able to see and connect to one another in a way that their home life or their grades or their behavior may not have connected them before. But it provided a safe space for the students to be seen, a safe space for them to voice their opinion. But even to back away from the students, being at the district level, for the adults and the leaders, to have that curiosity, to move in such a way that they're not just providing the answers, they're comfortable with also recognizing that some of their growth is going to come from the crowd that they're leading. I've just seen that begin to grow in our district. And now for us, we're so excited for the future because of that opportunity, that curiosity. Even in leadership it's creating for us as a district. And as individuals, to be honest.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: I want to talk a little bit about the work you do of sort of creating a culture around this. And, you know, we're sort of rewarded, in education, I'm sure, but just in life, for having the answer. And so, how do you create a space where people feel comfortable engaging with possibilities instead of just coming right down to a solution?

Stephen Nobles: Yeah, just trying to create a space where everyone is looking at things for where they can be and how they can be. Because sometimes if we focus just on how they are, can be daunting. And that could be enough to make people want to quit academically and in life. And for me, as an educator, our goal is to get our students positioned to recognize that learning isn't just a K-12 adventure. It's not just a phase that you're in currently. To remain curious prepares them to recognize their learning as a lifelong journey. And even as adults, when we remain curious, we see things through the lens of possibility. And then the students see that behavior modeled by us, as adults, and then they come in and it becomes contagious. It becomes a culture, and that's what moves everything forward. That's what we're starting to see move our city forward beyond just our school district.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: And I'm sure there are people that maybe are listening, they're saying, this sounds great, and maybe you come across these people in your work who feel like, I want to have more curiosity in the spaces I inhabit, but I feel really frustrated by the current state of discourse or shut down by how people are accustomed to sort of approaching these things. What advice would you give to somebody who's sort of going against the tide in that way?

Stephen Nobles: Be open. See everything from a lens of not where you are, but where you hope for them to be. It requires us to kind of disconnect from ourselves as individuals and see things as a collective. That's the biggest challenge, just getting people at the beginning of it. But once it starts and once it catches on, it's contagious. The work just moves -- it begins to do it itself. You don't have to push it that much. But the tough part is just getting everyone at the entry point of what's possible, seeing things beyond where they are, beyond where the data is, beyond what the data is saying that students are capable of. That's the toughest part. But once you get there, the great work, the imagination, the leadership, the expectation, it begins to beget itself. So it just creates this recycling symbol of leaders that are pushing children to be the next leaders, supporting their ideologies, supporting their dreams and their hopes. And it just creates this symbol and then things really start to pick up. And that's what attraction is, and that's the great spot.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Yeah, could you say more about, I guess an example of what that looks like? I love what you shared about the student who's thinking about trash in space and so, you know, I guess, what's an instance where you've seen somebody see this example of how they can push past this to really get there?

Stephen Nobles: For us, it's moving beyond the data, moving beyond just telling the students what they can be. Being open to the students questioning why this is this way. Because that's the thing that's eye-opening for me. When you start to have genuine conversations with students and you're telling them what they're expected to do, and then they question, well, why are the adults making the decisions for what I do next? Why aren't they asking us what we should be and how we should do it? That was eye-opening for me. And man, there's so much I could say about it without being long-winded. It's just when the students feel seen, when they feel heard, through the lens of curiosity, it's immeasurable. And I just love being in a space, being with the students that are beginning to be heard or be seen and voice their opinion. It's just so much that we've seen with it. I'm sorry, I can't just lock in on one because I have a million going through my head right now. But yeah, it's immeasurable what could happen once you get it right.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: That's amazing. And I think you've had the great fortune of being able to work with people who are different types of learners and have different ways in which they're engaging with ideas. What is some advice you'd give for somebody who is trying to implement this in their own classroom or community, who might have learners who have different approaches or ways that they're taking in information?

Stephen Nobles: See your students through the lens of possibility, see them beyond the data, see them beyond their living conditions, see them beyond their zip code, see them beyond their parents' lifestyle, see them through the lens of possibility, truly. To me, that's the first step that has to exist. And that requires us to recognize that if they are poor, they are not poor. If they live in poverty, their parents are poor and they live with them. Once you erase the data around the student and you see them truly through what's possible, that's when the beauty happens. That's when the engagement starts. That's when they're safe and they're comfortable to voice their opinion, to say more and to take ownership in their academic experience. The data will follow, but you have to authentically be right there.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Well I’d love to hear you talk a little bit about yourself and the role curiosity has played in your own life. How have you seen curiosity change things for you? What has it done in your life?

Stephen Nobles: So my mom raised me in a space of curiosity. My mom allowed me to question everything, to ask every question. A good example: she raised me to be an avid reader. So I grew up in a tough environment, small town here in Georgia. But my mom encouraged me to read, always asked me to read for her, always asked me to read to her, gave me books, "Hey son, you want to go on a cruise this summer?" "Yeah, of course." "Alright, if you read this book, "The Odyssey," we'll go." (Laughter) True story. I shoot through the book to finish, and she's like, "Did you enjoy that cruise?" (Laughter) Right, right.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: I like your mom.

Stephen Nobles: But as you can see from my build, I've always been an athlete. I've always been great at sports. So I was one of the key players with my friends when it came to sports. So there was a factory that was built in my hometown. Whenever we got out of school, our parents were at work for like the next three hours we got off the bus. So for three hours, it's just kids, you know? We're just roaming around, we're cooking, I'm an '80s baby. We're navigating the world by ourselves. But I read the "Lord of the Flies." And I remember going to my friends like, "Man, I just read a book. And this could end bad." (Laughter) But in that, my friends weren't excited about it. So much so that every time they came to play and I was reading, I started telling my mom to tell them I was asleep. So what do you think my childhood nickname is? Sleepy. But I remember asking my mom one time, "If you're encouraging me to read so much, you're encouraging me to do this thing. Why is everyone not on board with it? Why is it not supported? Why is it not a popular thing to do in my neighborhood?" And my mom said, "Do you know what a weed is?" Yeah, it's that plant in the yard you make me get out of the grass. She's like, "Nope, that plant is only a weed because it's in my yard. If you go to the jungle, a rose is a weed. A weed is anything that's growing where it's not supposed to be. They see you different because I'm raising you to be a weed. I'm raising you to grow in an environment that you're not supposed to be in." So she's always, throughout my life, encouraged me to be a weed, to constantly grow, especially if I'm in a space where I'm not supposed to be in. That requires her curiosity and she granted me that. So I’m always pushing students to be [a] weed.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: It's sort of giving people permission to be curious. It's beautiful, it really is. (Applause) Well I think when you think about the ideas of engaging the world in curiosity and sort of where we are in this moment, what gives you hope about what you see in your classrooms and what gives you hope about what you're seeing, maybe out in the world and how people might be approaching this idea of curiosity differently?

Stephen Nobles: The enormous access to information. The students are being pulled in so many directions. We as adults are being pulled in so many directions, but we're starting to see kids take ownership in who they are and where they become, not necessarily from the way that we'd hope. It feels like they're rebelling from what we expect them to do or be, but that's what makes me most hopeful. The students are starting to question why things are the way they are, why politically they are the way they are, why the crime is the way it is. If the students take that ownership at such a young age, and for me as an adult now in my 40s, recognizing that life is not a race anymore -- it’s a relay. The expectation is for me to take this as far as I can and pass that baton back to the next generation. I'm hopeful because I see them grabbing that baton, and I think the curiosity that is required for us to truly get things right that they possess, I truly feel hopeful for where we're headed academically, professionally, and just as people.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: It's so exciting to think about how they're going to take that curiosity out into the world and make a difference. And I think for everyone sitting here, what is sort of the big takeaway for people who are maybe not educators who are thinking about, you know, you make this great point about data. How do we as people sort of take, I guess the data in our life and become curious about that and use that to fuel curiosity?

Stephen Nobles: Use the data, even in our life, to ask better questions, question everything, and then ask the next question. And to me, I think if we use curiosity to be the bridge between where we are and where we hope to be, with the right leadership and empowering the next generation to lead, I think it's immeasurable what we can accomplish. For me, for my city, but with us being in Atlanta for the state of Georgia and hopefully for the entire country, I think curiosity, when put in the right place, is the fuel that truly is going to move things. So I'm very hopeful for that. And I think that's the biggest takeaway. Curiosity is the fuel that's going to move things forward for us.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: I love that as sort of a lasting takeaway. Curiosity is the fuel that's going to move things forward.

Stephen Nobles: So remain curious, not just mental.

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: There you go. Thank you so much, Stephen.