Wirecutter 播客探讨智能手机与 AI 时代的儿童科技育儿指南

And [music] don't forget, right now you can access the New York Times app for a whole month for free if you create your very first account. [music] That means you can read articles, listen to podcasts, and so much more with [music] no payw wall. I'll be back with Cena and Ellen after the break.

I think for us, for a long time, I was the one managing the parental controls in part because I was testing them all the time. Um, sometimes messing things up and then he would sometimes have to be like, "Hey, I can't access the TV right now. Help. [laughter] What's going on?" Um, but more recently, we set it up so that if a kid wants access like 15 more minutes on an app, it goes to both of us. So, sometimes it's him, sometimes it's me.

So, there are clearly different issues for parents dealing with different age groups, right? Cena, you were talking about your young kids, you're dealing with screen time. Ellen, you're talking about the the issues that you face with older kids, and you cover all of this, this whole range in your piece. So, I want to start, let's run through this from youngest to oldest kids and walk through the sort of big issues. Cena, what should parents think about when introducing tech?

it's something like if your kid is new to the school they're going to, you track them while they're walking to school and then they can turn it off. An expert I spoke with also mentioned maybe a teenager has lost some trust after a bad choice and you decide that okay, we're going to have tracking on until I can trust you to check in regularly again. Another great idea, and I think this actually came from Ellen, is just have a community with your kids' friends. So, I'm just thinking about my neighbor has a couple kids my kids' ages, and as they get older, it would be so great if my kids had the freedom to walk down there. And they knew that that was an option. That's a safe way for them to kind of explore the bounds of their freedom without tracking. And then maybe their parents can check in and say, "My kids are down there." As a form of tracking. And then finally, just research data collection practices. We always recommend buying high quality smartwatches and other devices for your kids to make sure that they're safe, but be really careful about what devices you choose and look into what's actually happening when they're collecting data about your kid.

What is the best way to figure out what data is being collected and how to turn off certain settings?

I think the number one thing is buy a high-quality device in the first place. read Ellen's incredible guides, which are always looking into these things before Wire Cutter recommends them. But yeah, read the terms of service, go into the settings, and examine what you can turn on and off. I think this is a place where actually brands do really matter because companies that are invested in having a long-term relationship with a customer, they're going to be a little bit more careful than a company that's kind of fly by night.

That makes sense.

Okay, so for these younger kids, five and [music] under, you really want to limit screen time, especially for kids under two. For this category of kids, you really want to look for high quality [music] content. This is probably true for all kids and adults, honestly, but especially for young kids. It really matters that you are exposing them to high quality content. You want to avoid apps and games and other technology that have dark patterns built into them. And you want to communicate with your kids. That's what I'm hearing from both of you overall. You just really want to communicate with your kids about your values around screen time and devices that you're using. And that even relates to what we just talked about with tracking. [music]

All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to get into the hot topics of when to introduce a first phone and social media. We'll be [music] right back.

[music]

Welcome back. Now, we're going to talk about first smartphones. I am very familiar with the wait until 8th movement. Basically, a pledge that parents sign to wait to give their kids a phone until 8th grade. I personally did not follow this rule. Uh, I have very many reasons and we can get into that, but I'm curious, Ellen, is there a right age to give a kid a phone?

There is not a right age. There are a lot of different circumstances when someone might need a phone earlier or later. There was a Pew Research report and their survey found that more than half of kids have a phone by the time they're 11. In our survey with Wire Cutter and New York Times readers, more than half said that their 13-year-old had a phone. And pretty much all of them said by the time their kids were 15 that they had a phone.

I I found this one to be really hard because I I really wanted to wait until 8th grade, but my daughter commutes by herself or with friends to school and she's been doing that since she was 11 on public transit in New York City and I wanted to be able to communicate with her. And so I felt like it was a very valid reason to give her a phone earlier. But, you know, we did have to deal with all of the things that come with that. How do you decide if your kid is ready for a smartphone? And I think this is something that a lot of parents struggle with trying to decide if their particular kid is ready. I think that's also a really hard decision for parents.

I think it's a lot about knowing your kid and seeing if they're mature. If they're the type to lose their phone or lose their jacket or their lunch or their water bottle, then maybe they're not ready yet. On the other hand, if it seems like they're pretty independent and they know how to make good choices, then maybe they are ready. In the end, I think it's a lot about the relationship and the conversations that you're having with your kids. So, it's a lot about setting clear expectations and having rules and teaching them how to secure their phone and really coaching them. I think this is the hardest part. Coaching them on like phone and texting etiquette. I think that's something I know I'm personally struggling with like how do you handle a group chat? What happens if you see bullying? if you are the victim of bullying or if you see someone else being the victim of bullying and then also figuring out like how do you teach them digital healthy digital habits. I know I still struggle with that personally in terms of modeling it but also working with my kid to understand like how do you learn to turn it off on your own without a parent being the one saying like it's time to turn it off.

Yeah. I mean I think I'm thick in in the middle of that right now and I'm struggling with it. I think every parent I know is struggling with it because it's it's like you said, do we actually model the behavior that we want our children to follow? And I feel like I definitely can say no. I don't. I use my phone way more than I would like to. I am curious in this research and reporting for this story, what are the strategies that people are actually using that are successful to help their kids manage their use of their phones and build, like you said, healthy habits around phone use.

I don't know if they're success stories so much as there are parents that are finding ways to have those conversations. And I think one of the things that I was inspired by when I was interviewing parents was the sense of working together as a collective so that it's not one kid in the school is the one with the phone or your kid is the only one being left out. So working with them to figure out like a kind of a collective strategy. What are we allowing them to do? What are we not allowing them to do? And being on the same page. I think for me personally, last year the biggest help to me was that New York City schools banned having cell phones in school during school hours, which honestly it was the biggest help as a parent to be like, well, you just can't have your phone in class. You just you have to put it in a pouch when you get to school. And I don't have to be the police officer about this. This is actually a rule that you have to follow. And that was massively helpful. So there is I think this element of what can you do as an individual parent and what do you need society to buy in on you know I think that's the big challenge right now.

Yeah I think it's definitely one of those collective things. One big picture thing I want to point out is that a lot of this gets treated as an individual family decision when families are actually up against what's really a societal problem.

[snorts]

Tech companies are making decisions about how they design apps and content. They're trying to get adults and kids onto these platforms and using them consistently. So, when we're thinking about screen time, I think it's really worth having grace for ourselves as parents.

I think that's such a great point, Cena. It is a great explanation for why as a parent it can sometimes feel like you're playing whack-a-ole to try to like control how your kids are using different technology. you you know you might have very strict rules or rules that seem to make sense for your family but you know they might go to a friend's house and things are different there or you know even within your own home you might not be able to control everything and it can feel very frustrating as

Yeah, I would just add that we have parental controls, but I think parents, like we like the survey said, struggle with them. And it's because it's so easy for kids to avoid them or to get around them. And yet, it's at the same time so hard for parents to manage it.

[music]

So, let's get into the the next one that's super tricky. Social media.

Clearly, a lot of kids are on social media and there's kind of this like FOMO thing, right? If you're not on social media as a teen, it you can really feel like you're missing out. What is the best way to approach this, Ellen? What are the things parents should be thinking about when their kids are asking them about getting onto a social account?

I'm curious. This is really for me. Ellen, please walk me through this and Cena, maybe this is for you in the future. What is the best way to introduce social media for a kid who is interested? Are there ways to teach your kid better social media literacy ahead of time? Like, how do you approach this? You've already probably been through this a couple times with your kids. I am still going through it. My older daughters are like, "Oh my god, mom, you talk about this all the time." But it's a lot about having those conversations, having them think about the algorithm, about what they're seeing. I think one of the concerns I always have is that if it sees that you're interested in cats, it might show you more videos of cats. And that's great. But if you happen to show interest in something darker or dangerous or problematic, it will also show you more information about that that it will just lead you down that rabbit hole. And so it's a lot about asking your kids, what do you do when that happens? Or how do you manage your feed? Who are you following? Who are you interacting with? and figuring out how do I also digest this information? How do I um see like, oh, my friends look beautiful or they're having the best life or they're having this awesome vacation and I don't get that. And how do you handle that? And knowing that people are posting, you know, their best life on social media, not necessarily the things that they are working on or struggling with behind the scenes.

Ellen, you just had a kid leave the nest. You have a daughter who just went to college this fall, and you do write some guidance in this piece that we're talking about about how to approach this stage of parenting. What's your best advice for this transition of sending a kid out into the world when it comes to tech? I think the hardest part of that whole experience so far has been trust and knowing like, okay, you are set free. you live on your own now and it's up to you to know how to manage your screen time. We stopped using parental controls before she left in the hopes that she would kind of learn how to regulate herself. We set her up with an app called Clear Space which helps. It's something that she can manage herself. It actually is an app that makes you like take a break. It makes you like take a deep breath. It even sometimes makes you do push-ups and

like

that

before

you

get

back

on

this

[laughter]

app,

too.

Exactly.

And

then

I

also

I

was

like,

"All

right,

I

don't

know

if

that's

enough.

Here's

a

brick."

Um,

which

is

another

device

that

you

use.

It's

like

a

physical

device

where

it

will

block

you

from

all

the

things

that

distract

you

on

your

phone

and

force

you

to

like

say

study.

of

you,

I

want

to

ask,

we

have

a

traditional

question

we

ask

at

the

end

of

each

episode.

But

I

want

to

know

what

have

you

purchased

recently

that

you

really

really

loved?

can

go

first.

I

do

a

ton

of

biking

with

my

kids

and

when

they

were

little

they

had

these

amazing

helmets

called

Nutcase

helmets,

but

they

don't

sell

them

anymore.

And

I

finally

found

a

helmet

that's

just

like

them.

It's

called

the

Noodle.

N

U

D

L.

And

they're

just

adorable

and

they

fit

my

kids

perfect.

And

just

that

like

extra

5

seconds

of

not

being

frustrated

putting

a

helmet

on

my

kid's

head

makes

my

day.

that's

great.

All right,

Ellen,

how

about

you?

the

thing

that

I

purchased

recently

was

uh

Trader

Joe's

ice

cream

sandwiches.

They

are

delicious.

They

are

cooling.

it

just

a

traditional

is

like

vanilla

with

chocolate

cookies?

What?

It's

a

chocolate

chip

cookie

with

ice

cream

inside.

It's

actually

pretty

big.

It's

like

the

size

of

almost

the

palm

of

my

hand.

It's

so

good.

It's

delicious.

And

it's

one

of

our

picks

for

ice

cream

sandwiches.

Right.

We

have

a

great

ice

cream

sandwich

guide.

All

right.

Thank

you

both

for

joining.

Great

to

be

here.

Thank

you

so

much

for

having

us.

[music]

out

Cena

and

Ellen's

super

helpful

article

on

our

[music]

website.

We

will

also

link

it

in

the

show

notes

along

with

more

reporting

on

the

topic

of

kids

and

technology.

[music]

These

are

great

resources

for

parents

of

kids

of

any

age.

That's

it

for

us.

Thanks

for

listening.

Wire

Cutter

Show

is

executive

[music]

produced

by

Rosie

Garin

and

produced

by

Abigail

Keel.

Engineering

support

from

Mattie

Maziello

and

Nick

Pitman.

Today's

episode

was

mixed

by

Katherine

[music]

Anderson.

original

music

by

Dan

Powell,

Marian

Lozano,

Rowan

Nemoto,

Katherine

[music]

Anderson,

and

Diane

Wong.

Cliff

Levy

is

Wire

Cutter's

deputy

publisher

and

general

manager.

Ben

[music]

Fman

is

Wire

Cutters

editor-inchief.

I'm

Christine

Sirette.

Thanks

for

[music]

listening.

you

both.

you.

you.

we'll

do

that

again.

[laughter]