hello uh good evening uh welcome it's a full house it's great to see all of you here uh at lbs we always start on time uh my name is Sergey guif I'm a dean of uh London business school and I will not take much of your time because of course you're here to uh hear from our today's tonight's guest uh Nikolai tangin who is managing the largest uh Sovereign wealth Fund in this world uh Nord G bank's Investment Management um this is the fund which has something like 1.5 percentage point of all listed equity in this world so today or you may say starting last Friday but actually starting many years ago this uh this fund uh has been invested in companies which go up and down right and to especially in today's environment but the fund is investing in companies which are affected by many uh interesting developments especially those in recent weeks we of course would like to hear from niik how the fund how he as a CEO of the fund thinks about uh investing in those uh challenging times now Nikolai also has his own podcast which I'm sure all of you have listened to where he shares wisdom but also asks uh CEOs of uh global companies uh that the uh fund is invested in he also is very open sharing his advice in op ads the recent opad in financial times for example was talking about uh the importance of shortterm uh reporting and the importance of long-term thinking so there are many things that I'm sure uh we will have a chance to talk about today um uh this is I should say a part of summit series of uh uh our Institute for entrepreneurship and private Capital where we bring in uh outstanding speakers to talk about the most challenging decisions and issues uh in in in their in their distinguished careers and with that I would like to invite the director of The Institute Professor Floren vasvari to the stage and Nikolai uh and they will have a fireside chat uh with you please

uh good evening uh welcome it's a full house it's great to see all of you here uh at lbs we always start on time uh my name is Sergey guif I'm a dean of uh London business school and I will not take much of your time because of course you're here to uh hear from our today's tonight's guest uh Nikolai tangin who is managing the largest uh Sovereign wealth Fund in this world uh Nord G bank's Investment Management um this is the fund which has something like 1.5 percentage point of all listed equity in this world so today or you may say starting last Friday but actually starting many years ago this uh this fund uh has been invested in companies which go up and down right and to especially in today's environment but the fund is investing in companies which are affected by many uh interesting developments especially those in recent weeks we of course would like to hear from niik how the fund how he as a CEO of the fund thinks about uh investing in those uh challenging times

now Nikolai also has his own podcast which I'm sure all of you have listened to where he shares wisdom but also asks uh CEOs of uh global companies uh that the uh fund is invested in he also is very open sharing his advice in op ads the recent opad in financial times for example was talking about uh the importance of shortterm uh reporting and the importance of long-term thinking so there are many things that I'm sure uh we will have a chance to talk about today

um uh this is I should say a part of summit series of uh uh our Institute for entrepreneurship and private Capital where we bring in uh outstanding speakers to talk about the most challenging decisions and issues uh in in in their in their distinguished careers and with that I would like to invite the director of The Institute Professor Floren vasvari to the stage and Nikolai uh and they will have a fireside chat uh with you please

thank you hopefully you can hear me yes it's it's working very good excellent how many Norwegians do we have here today hands up wow okay that's good there you go excellent excellent so uh thank you all for coming on time and for taking pictures it's allowed to take pictures so feel free to do so uh we will make sure we smile so uh we appreciate you coming on time and we appreciate appreciate so many of you coming this is quite unusual for us uh we we typically run these events in much you know with a much smaller audience but Nikolai is uh so popular I'm almost learning now that uh the number of speakers is a function of uh the assets and the management or maybe some there's some causal effect here somehow so thank you for coming

so today's session is really about understanding the largest Fund in the world as uh Serge was saying the fund the Nord Bank investment management is the the management arm of the Norwegian Central Bank that manages the fund is the government pension plan actually the fund is now 1.8 trillion dollar the last time I checked at least and has been set up in 1996 and since 1996 this has done uh incredibly well compounded returns at about 6.30% or something like that and Nikolai has been appointed to run this fund 5 years ago in September 2020 so maybe we can start by um Nikolai maybe you can tell us a little bit about the fund maybe the governance structure so that we all understand it here

I did some research myself and I I can definitely say that amongst all the Sovereign wealth funds uh your fund is the most transparent by far okay it's is really transparent everything is on the website but maybe you can tell us a little bit about the fund in terms of numbers today and and maybe how you found it 5 years ago when you joined

sure um I think to understand the fund you need to go all the back to all the way back to 1969 where where they were drilling for oil outside the coast of Norway and on the very last uh well they found oil if it hadn't found oil then they would have packed up the toys and gone home and um this was announced to the Norwegian people the day before Christmas Eve 1969 and then you can say wow what a Christmas gift but the thing was that in many countries it had been a curse to find uh such wealth it had led to corruption uh to crowding out of Industries and so on and so that's when the Norwegian politicians decided to make it into a fun so in '96 they made the first deposit into the fund two billion Norwegian Groner and that's grown to roughly 20,000 billion now

um so the idea was to take the wealth from the Shelf move it into Financial assets and now we made twice as much uh uh uh in terms of returns in financial markets compared to the money we put into the fund so in a way we found oil twice on the Shelf in financial markets

we are 700 people around the world so it's a very very small team okay so I call us the national moneymaking team um and and um I kind of think it's a big honor to work in that firm because what we do is to uh take care of the money and the money now provides one out of five Hospital School Road more than 20% of the budget is financed by this fund

the way it's run it's uh uh run according to a mandate that we are given from the Ministry of Finance so the ministry is very very important and uh they have made this mandate and we are pretty close we're investing close to that mandate so it's a relatively index near fund and I think you have to be pretty index near when you when you are of such importance uh to the country what else okay

and definitely this is not just an index fund is a you do have you augment this with some selective active management

yeah we we can talk about that as well so so just just a couple more things you mentioned that it's a very transparent fund it's the most transparent Fund in the world okay yeah now how can I say that well there is actually a world championship in transparency historically It Was Won by the Canadians and I kind of think it's okay to be beaten by Canadians in ice hockey but it's not okay to be beaten in transparency so we decided we're going to win this and we work really hard and last year we got 100 out of 100 in all categories so we are super trans transparent okay everything you want to find you can see on our website I think that's really important to be uh uh to be transparent

the second thing is what you do needs to be have broad political anchoring so everything we do is anchored in the parliament that's uh also very important because then the politicians don't change their mind uh and you haven't got a a change in policy when you have a change of parliament so uh so those are two two uh two very important things

and maybe so we can dig a little bit into your activities so you joined 5 years ago the fund based on my research the fund went up 80% since you joined maybe I got the numbers wrong but since 2020 until today the fund went up by about 80% yeah but I mean that's not me right that's just uh that's financial markets financial markets have been very strong very but I would and of course you have a a set mandate by the Ministry of Finance and you are overseen by the board within the central bank yeah but to what extent did you manage to bring in your own investment style within this mandate you obviously your role is to operationalize that mandate and implement it uh to what extent you have some degree of freedom to work within that mandate to generate this type of value

yeah no we uh we of course do that so we are uh working on in a more systematic manner to learn from our mistakes that's one thing so we've created uh something called uh an investment simulator so for instance now you want to buy uh $10 million of Apple well before you manage to put the order in you basically get back to you you know Floren you're not very good in technology because you never made money in a Technology stock before uhhuh it's a consensus trade you are best at contrarian trades your uh Target uh ticket size is $100 million not $10 million and so on so you get all the you get all your all your trade history uh back to you in a systematic manner so that you can easily more easily learn from your mistakes

now after having implemented that we see that our portfolio managers are better at running the winners for longer and they're cutting the losers quicker so it's actually impacting their trading Behavior so that's one of the things we did

we've improved uh uh information within the fund both internally and externally and so now we know have you know just a level of applications which we have never seen before which has meant that we have been uh you know just I think improving pretty much everything we do there is more a focus on technology we are a very important technology company and we can come back to just how we are applying uh AI mhm and so I think we've just been kind of fine-tuning just a lot of things we we are working on on people's psyche in in a different way so we use uh Sports psychologists in the fun now

why do we use sport psychologists yeah well the thing the thing is that if I say listen you need to you need to work with a psychologist then you are ill if I tell you you have to work with a sport psychologist then you are a hero I got it okay even though you talk about exactly the same things

and the reason why sport is so good is because in sport they focus in on process rather than outcome you know before before a race you don't think gee I really have to win this race you think about you know I just need what do I need to do just need to optimize every part of the process and then the results are basically a function of your process it takes away a lot of the stress and it means that you can come through uh uh tough periods in a much more resilient and better way

so I guess you are more introspective in terms of figuring out what works what doesn't work and do you have an element of let's say experimentation when it comes to this approaches to for instance avoid human biases like the one that you mentioned earlier yeah so we holding longer selling faster yeah we work on all these things you work on all those St okay

and do you and I'm sorry two more things uh we try to increase the time Horizon for our investments um the thing is that the more longterm you are the fewer decisions you need to make and the fewer decisions you make the better they tend to be now if you have to make 100 decisions a day of course they are not going to be very good yeah if you make one a month it's better going to be good yeah much better for sure much better

the second thing is to work on the ability to be contrarian now if you have a square and you have right wrong consensus contrarian where is all the money well I guess following the average following the crowds right consensus that's where the money is not no no I no no no I'm just saying what people do that's what they do that's what people do money would be on the contrarian side abely so if you if you follow what everybody else is doing you're never going to lose your job you know you can just load up on the most expensive stocks and the most bought and hyped stocks you're never going to lose your job yeah indeed you can lose a lot of money as long as everybody else is losing money you're fine so to be in the contrarian Square to be right contrarian it's a very tough place to be but that's where all the money is

yeah now it's a very fine difference between being contrarian and right and contrarian and wrong as you know much contrarian and wrong you get fired absolutely absolutely now uh so the thing is that in finance uh you know life is not a popularity contest my wife says only people without friends say that uh but I truly believe if you are very concerned about having friends and people liking you finance is not for you yeah agree yeah there's a lot of fear of missing out out there yeah yeah

and uh okay very good so let me just maybe dig a little deeper into how you generate your returns so I know that your mandate is to follow a particular Benchmark which is fotsy all cap index about 8,900 stocks and then an index of bonds about 18,000 bonds out there your portfolio is uh for those of you that are not familiar about 71% equities public equities 27% fixed income and the rest is an real estate unlisted and infrastructure so how do you generate Alpha here relative to your benchmark

I I I did my research seems like you are generating Alpha relative to your benchmark so you're generating about 25 basis points which might not seem like a lot but given the capital that you have that's gigantic especially that you compound it over time so how do we think about generating Alpha in such a large enormous fund yeah keep it keeping in mind that we also need to worry about transaction costs right yeah I mean it they could add up significantly absolutely

well we uh we have u a decentralized uh structure MH so we have uh sector Specialists and team working in the various sectors you know Financial team uh consumer team Tech Team so both hardware and software and they have autonomy in picking the stocks they want they have autonomy full autonomy absolutely

um so they have uh you know like a a benchmark and then they are supposed to beat The Benchmark and so this is all very decentralized then um we also have 5% of the fund is run by external managers that's mainly in Emerging Markets uh roughly a third is or just under 30% is is from bonds so there again it's decentralized to the various regions and then we have real assets where we own just under a thousand uh properties around the world so for instance here in in London we own 25% of region Street yeah

um and you recently bought something in Mayfair as well right in January seen the news yeah okay so uh how how do you ensure that these teams you know what what you just told us is that they work in their areas in their let call them silos maybe but but how do they well they were silos in the past but we work very hard to get rid of the silos okay how did you manage that with the system that you created or how did you break this side

you you break silos by uh talking about it by being conscious about it by having Corporation projects across by improving communication across uh you work on it very very hard um you know I think it's really interesting because our human nature is to not share much information is to work in silos is to be pretty short term you know that's how we are as human beings you know and then the job of a CEO is basically to stretch you know stretch to time Horizon make sure that people communicate more share more all these kind of things that's that's what we do every day you know

yeah yeah I mean even though you track so many stocks close to 9,000 stocks you are not really a passive holder of those stocks you are actually involved in governance issues you vote in in meetings and absolutely absolutely so so we have so we um I would say we have active coverage of uh 800 companies okay and then the rest would be more passive it's really really important to be an active uh uh to have active Asset Management because we are also an active owner okay we are not an activist owner but we are an active owner

it means that we uh communicate with companies we have some 3,000 company meetings every year and we vote really important we vote at more than 100,000 uh uh resolutions at nearly 10,000 uh agms and what is interesting I think is that uh you know we own one and a half% of of all the equities in the world but we pre-announce our voting intentions 5 days ahead of agms so that everybody else can see how we're going to vote and that means that when we have against votes roughly three percentage points more would look at what we do so we have impact on just under 5% of all the votes in the world so you're influencing also other shareholders who are probably not doing their homework well they can see what we do right yeah yeah

and um I guess when when it comes to this uh governance issues um is there an element of learning because obviously you have this very successful podcast and you you are interviewing a lot of very successful CEOs and the fund is investing in those companies that are R by those CEOs what leadership styles have you seen when when talking to the CEOs and how what is your perception of of your understanding of those individuals those very successful individuals and their Styles and how is that discussion maybe shaping maybe your allocation or maybe not yeah

so I would not say it's shaping allocations um but what is happening to leadership styles around the world I think it's interesting I think there is a trend towards uh a more kind of democratic way of running a company so more uh anchoring uh broader consensus uh and flatter structures that's something uh which is being kind of accelerated by social media and so on I think so this is uh in a way digitalization probably yeah yeah

this is in a way a bit of the Scandinavian Leadership Model so I think that's that's moving up and then I think the Indian leadership style is moving up and it kind of started with the tech companies in Silicon Valley you know I mean like the SAA Adella and some of the other people there um very impressive

and I was in India the week before last and met with um just under 40 CEOs and we were talking about the Indian leadership style and I think it's there is there is a there is a level of humbleness uh coming out of that you know India even the gods are supposed to be humble right and so they are very humble and they are working for something which is bigger than themselves uh there is a lot of empathy there is um you know they don't like to lay off people they like to treat people really well and so there is something there which is I think it's moving up the whole kind of empathetic Edge it's um it's very interesting

and and do you see that this leadership style is potentially leading to better performance long term in the case of those companies I mean because sometimes uh let's say not fighting people in during a difficult period might seem like a very bad shortterm decision but it might help those companies long term like we had the recent experiment with covid where companies fired very quickly a lot of people and then right after Co they struggled to come back they in fact never came back because they fired critical people

absolutely yeah no I think generally you the better you treat your people the the better the results will be uh you know to to a limit and and is is this an element that you look at when you analyze those 800 stocks is is this part of your analysis

yes we do we do spend time on on management uh quality and so on I think it's interesting when I was younger um I probably spent less time looking at leadership styles and less time looking at corpor culture corpor culture is just unbelievably interesting and you see two companies which can be pretty much exactly the same and then one company is doing really well and one is doing really badly right you see it to the extreme in Banks I mean Banks I mean they're basically the same yeah then some of them are going bust and some of them are hugely successful you know for tens and tens of years

and it's just like it's the type of people you hire is how you train them is how you think about succession you know it's the values is doing the right things but you see it in Industry after industry you see it in everything from you know to footware companies may look the same two elevator companies may look the same two defense companies may look the same and then some successful and someone not and I think it's to understand the coroporate culture and we spend a lot of time on that on the podcast yeah yeah

and to what extent do you think this leadership styes and their success correlate with the compensation at the executive level to what extent do you think maybe the compensation packages that people at that level get are not optimal enough is this something you look at or yes we look at that yeah um what is important for us it's not so much the level of compensation about is the structure mhm it should be long-term it should be Equity based uh it should vest over a period of time and it should be uh and it should be dependent on on results you know yeah yeah

okay so maybe we can switch a little bit on related to Performance when the markets are very volatile you know the returns can fluctuate quite a bit in 2022 you had a significant loss you reported a significant loss which obviously brings with it some some costs maybe on the political side but then 23 and 2024 were very successful we had excellent returns I just read an article in uh on Reuters that last year your profit was over 220 billion now the question that I wanted to ask you especially in the context of today is what happens when the performance is not so good you know how do you deal with that situation with the pressure that you might have as a long-term investor from you know maybe people in the political Spectrum or or people that are outside that you know the the citizens of Norway right that are maybe questioning what the fund is doing they might not see the long-term perspective that you take how do you deal with that stay stay the course

well I think the really important thing is to be very transparent about everything you do so when we report results it shouldn't come as a surprise and then is to have that mandate and with the Mandate we also have a risk budget and the risk budget is measured in what is called tracking error and it is a measure for how far away from the index you can be MH and I think that's really important because if uh and that's 1.25% right is something like that yeah so it means that in two out of three years you should not be further away than 1.22% 25% um

now why is that important well it's important because if we had s lost a lot of money I would have been sacked at the exact wrong time I would have been sacked when the results were really weak there is another person coming in liquidating all the positions at the worst possible time uh so that's why that's important actually in 2022 even though you underperformed you did beat your benchmark just to clarify but yeah and then 23 24 we didn't yeah um

yeah and transparency you think helps lot I mean people understand the messaging that you provide transparency is important and expectation management is important you know I think uh we've been saying for some time I think returns will be very low going forward if uh you know could be easily be negative um because we've had we've had a period of uninterrupted growth we've had very strong development in financial markets we have had low interest rates and we've had uh you know a a good geopolitical situation yeah

so so there's a lot of uh lack of information I would say associated with all the other Sovereign wealth funds I I tried to figure out you know to do some comparison I actually did struggle a lot to find anything other than that they invest in other asset classes classes as well but what I find fascinating as an academic is the governance structure that you have on top of uh Sovereign wealth fund you you know your peers out there and obviously a lot of of them are St stayed back the second is cic in China and then you have um adaa in Abu Dhabi kind of the third what do you think it would be an ideal governance structure is it the one that you have could the one that you have be improved or is there another structure that would be more appropriate for a sovereign wealth fund if you had a a blank canas and you were to redo this again any thoughts on that

I I think uh given Where We Are in the world uh in uh a Democratic Society a very open Society uh it's a good it's a good structure we have it's the fund is owned by the Norwegian people it's kind of taken care of by the parliament the Ministry of Finance uh is kind of running it they have given the mandate to the central bank and then we are situated inside the central bank it's a it's a good structure okay

so in addition to the governance you obviously they have a lot of operational issues you mentioned that you have about 700 employees or so and you invest in you know 1 1.8 trillion worth of assets so there are lots of stocks that one needs to pick you know close to 9,000 how do you employ technology to make this more efficient I you mentioned just that you cover mainly 800 but still 800 is a lot of stocks

absolutely and when the index changes we also have to make transactions right so we have something like 35 million transactions a year I mean it's a huge machine wow and we are doing it more cost efficiently than any Index Fund in the world so um there's just a lot of Technology going into this and and so how

exactly can you tell us a little bit more detail about this technology that you use is something unique to to your fund or is it something that you have taken from other fund managers out there in the public we have we have built it up ourselves over the years um we have everything in the loud uh highly automated nearly everything we do is uh is uh you know straight through processing um so huge amount of technology I we are one of the more important technology companies in the country

yeah I've seen that one of the main departments that you have internally is operations and tech department which is which is very important and probably you are hiring people in that area as it's it's uh it's really interesting so over the last uh if you look at our last three months 40% of everybody in the fund have contributed code to our Central code bank so uh nearly half the firm can program wow okay it's very it's it's incredible

and now with AI it's uh it's phenomenal I mean we we um we we were we were early in being very very serious about Ai and and um and how do you get AI into an organization well first of all you have to at the top just relentlessly bang on about it right every time I get the microphone I'm just banging on about it all the people you recruit they need to be able to program so uh then all the summer interns had programming uh activities we have uh you know uh AI ambassadors we have more than 20 people across the firm which has got weekly contact with uh with entropic which has clawed and then we have all types of ser uh mandatory training and so on uh so it's just absolutely incredible what's going on now

what are what are successful uses of AI in in your setting is it well so the thing is that we use it we use it uh uh I was just walking around we have 100 140 people here in London I walked around today mhm uh to see what people were up to everybody has clawed on one of the screens they are working on it continuously for all kinds of things but we for instance in trading we are using it to reduce trading costs yeah um the models can tell us for instance we can sell something on a Monday and buy it on a Friday because of uh index changes and so these models help us reduce uh trading by uh internalizing more of the uh the and absolutely uh helping us deploy Capital around month end as there just like an endless amount of uh activities we can use it for

and you prefer to have this type of Technology internally as opposed to Outsource it some some fund managers like to Outsource this type of yeah we have we have it internal you have everything internally okay

and other than the technology and the AI uses I obviously the value comes from the people right the the talent that you have internally and maybe you can tell us a little bit about first how you attract Talent how you keep the talent and develop the talent and and finally how you think about succession planning yeah because okay so I mean the people I mean the way we work with people this is my so this is my favorite topic okay so just uh let's dig deep then absolutely

now how do do you how do you attract people um well first we have you have to talk about the mission and we talk a lot about the mission and the importance of the fund for the Norwegian the Norwegian people and for society right um we are out at universities we talk to students we have the podcast which has helped us improve application numbers very significantly and then we send out the real Specialists so when I joined four years ago I accounted for 60% of all the external presentations last year just over 10% when I joined there were four people who spoke on behalf of the fund last year 150 people spoke on behalf of the fund

is this one of the kpis that you said internally is very very important because you want to you want to learn from the real Specialists and if you can put out the real Specialists there you get just better applications and we put out we got amazing women working in the fund when when I joined we were there were 27% women now we are 35% women uh so we just get much better applications across the board now

how do you keep people you make sure there is mobility you make sure that you move people around uh you make sure that you try to give them really interesting things to do you try to uh see them and acknowledge them uh more MH and um and I think that's you know and getting them intrinsically motivated to do their job is is challenging these days well um uh well you have extrinsic motivation which is money that only get you so far but I think it's the intrinsic motivation and the pride that's really really important yeah yeah

and you know you actually have I noticed and then and then you know what I think you have a very diverse group from 37 countries I mean this is a very International Organization but the thing is there is nothing more fun than investing it's the most fun thing you can do why is it so much fun because everything you eat and drive and wear is made by companies you know you need to understand technology change you need to understand consumer preference you need to understand you know what's going on with with the products you need to understand corpor culture you need to understand greed and fear geopolitics uh you know defense budgets uh all these kind of things macroeconomics politics and and it's not like it's changing once every month is changing like 1,000 times every second and so there's nothing more interesting you can do yeah I mean when I wake up in the morning is just like I just like spin out of bed you know I just have to read what's going on what's been happening overnight I mean it's just so exciting and the thing is that it has never been more exciting than now because everything is changing so fast and things which wasn't through true you know a month ago is true today it's unbelievable

and on top of that technology is changing so unbelievably fast I mean you guys may watch the Olympics okay so you have the Olympics from one Olympics Olympics in Paris to the next Olympics human race improving speed by what 1% 2% okay next Olympics another 2% next Olympics 2% okay so perhaps you a human being can run 5% faster during three Olympics technology AI 10 times more chips 10 times more efficient 10 times better software that's a 1,000 increase in complexity between two Olympics next Olympics and not a thousand times what's 1,000 time 1,000 a lot of how much thousands a million it's a million he's a professor good you put me on the spot usually I put the students on the spot okay now stay concentrated next Olympics one 1 million time 1,000 a billion a billion you see so a billion times increase in complexity you know while the human race is just standing still I mean is that interesting or not and you are living through these times you know nobody has lived through these times before it's unbelievable

so how can the human mind deal with this complexity we are we are wired to simplify things to to have shortcuts I mean I can see when my students submit assignments they all follow shortcuts you know how do we how how do we manage this complexity with a limited brain okay you manage complexity by trying to stay agile and by loving change yeah we need to love change and we need to be amazed by what's going on how can you best position yourself to cope with change learn a lot of different things you know when you got out of London Business School you have you have narrowed down in a way on business so that's not so good so you need to broaden out again you know you need to learn about social psychology you need to learn about anthropology you need to learn about all these kind of different things you need to read books you know really wide you need to read the Russian Classics right you need to and you need to have many different types of friends people with more different type of friends are more Innovative and they come up with better ideas so you need to just so all of you before you leave today you need to shake hands with two people you never met before you need to just improve the network of people you talk to because that help helps you absorb uh new information and helps you better navigate the change we see in the world

you need to have range right you need to cross pollinate ideas from other fields an investment is indeed a multidisciplinary activity you mentioned psychology at the beginning and it's getting more complicated right to stay ahead of the game yeah

and then you need to be confidently humbl you need to be humble about all the kind of things you don't know that's the great thing about the market always keeps you humble yeah absolutely I mean um the market has got one job and that's to try to steal your money every day and it's doing pretty well yeah

I'm mindful of the time I want to open it for Q&A from the audience but I want to ask you one last question we have a lot of young people in the room here trying to pursue a career in in probably in Investments that's why maybe you are here and I was wondering uh if you put yourself in your 20s now that the person that you in your 20s what advice would you give to yourself when you are 20 or to to our students over here yeah I mean the most important what would you do differently

the most important thing is just never listen to your parents right I mean never never listen to your parents my son is over there yeah never don't don't listen to him I mean he can hardly calculate uh I'm struggling Under Pressure so um no you have to do what you love you know you have to follow your passion if you don't follow your passion life is going to be miserable you're not going to have any fun and you're not going to be very good at it because you need to love what you do

so I asked Yensen H you know Nvidia yeah say so Jensen how much do you work so well you know what uh uh I wake up at 5:00 in the morning I work uh the whole day uh until I go to bed I work every day I work every Saturday every Sunday every holiday I like wow but when do you relax yeah but ncol I relax all the time because I love what I do and so you need to love what you do so it's so you need to do what you have a passion for

then you need to then you need to it doesn't matter how much money you make in your first job or second job it's all about the learning you need to find somebody across the table who you think will really teach you and care about your learning okay very important I was really poor until very late in life because I had made nearly no money in my in my first few jobs doesn't matter you know money will come knowledge compounds at the highest rate possible totally I mean it's it's amazing

um and and then it's just to have an open mind um broaden out learn a lot of different things I mean perhaps the most um important degree I did was social psychology I did a degree at the lsse um I mean it was probably like seven years ago I did it quite recently social psychology it's about it's about how you learn it's about how you take away your biases it's about how you make decisions all these kind of things I mean you are so lucky you are still so young

so Al ask the last question I think we are going to close it so maybe just going forward what do you see the equity markets if you were to invest a dollar today which geography or segment within this public Equity Market would you kind of lean towards and this is outside the fund obviously we understand that the fund is to track the markets but where do you see some opportunities maybe for the let's say uh occasional investors in the room here

okay if you want to invest in fin markets you want to be very Diversified and very longterm okay okay now what will give you better returns than financial markets education education it's the best investment you can make one investment better than that spend your money on experiences with family and friends that is the investment which will give you the most happiness over time and with that good luck with everything and all the best thank you thank you so much thank you