--- author: All-In Podcast date: '2026-09-15' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUcooQRy0PU speaker: All-In Podcast tags: - industrial-policy - government-fraud - energy-infrastructure - border-security - foreign-policy title: 万斯对话All-In播客：中期选举前夕把脉美国制造、能源危机、万亿反欺诈与外交底线 summary: 美国副总统J.D.万斯做客All-In播客，深入复盘执政两年的核心施政成果与战略抉择。对话重点剖析了南部边境管控成效与制造业重工业化复兴、联邦财政赤字与万亿级福利欺诈治理难题、算力中心扩张受阻折射出的全美电力基建危机、前沿AI安全防护机制、H-1B签证反滥用与高门槛筛选改革、以美国国家利益为唯一准绳的中东与北约外交路线，以及中期选举的决胜关键。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: politics-society area: society-thinking project: [] people: [] companies_orgs: [] products_models: [] media_books: [] status: evergreen --- ### 就职宣誓与访谈开场 **J.D.万斯**: 我，**詹姆斯·戴维·万斯**（James David Vance），谨庄严宣誓，我将支持并捍卫美利坚合众国宪法。愿上帝助我。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: I, James Vance, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States. So help me God.
**主持人**: 祝贺您，副总统先生。
Original English **Host**: Congratulations, Mr. Vice President.
**J.D.万斯**: 我们是主要合作伙伴，我们是世界超级大国。事情本来就该是这样运转的。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: We're the senior partner. We're the world's superpower. That's the way that it works.
**J.D.万斯**: 这不仅是在盗窃美国人民的血汗钱，也是在剥夺美国人民赖以生存的关键公共服务。这个问题在这个国家已经溃烂恶化了太久。阻止社会主义的唯一办法，就是让人民过上更好的生活。而这正是我们每一天都在全力以赴推进的事情。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: This is not just theft of the American people's money. This is also theft of critical services that the American people rely on. This is a problem that has festered in this country for far too long. You stop socialism by making people's lives better. And that's what we're trying to do every single day.
**J.D.万斯**: 我们必须先把今年11月的中期选举硬仗打好，然后再去考虑接下来的事情。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: We got to take care of business this November, then we'll worry about what comes next.
**杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: 让我们热烈欢迎副总统 **J.D.万斯**！太棒了。副总统先生，很高兴再次见到您。您最近怎么样？
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: Please welcome Vice President J. D. Vance. All right. Nice to see you, Mr. Vice President. How are you?
**J.D.万斯**: 我很好，我很好。杰森，我刚才赶上了你们上一场圆桌讨论的尾声，你当时正在问某个人他的生活发生了怎样的改变。我没看清那人是谁，但你问他从“大房子”（the big house）出来后生活有什么变化。从你的语境来看，你指的显然是监狱；但我一开始还以为你指的是**密歇根大学**橄榄球队的主体育场“Big House”呢！所以对于你到底在聊什么以及现场实际发生了什么，我俩的理解可真是大相径庭。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: I'm good. I'm good. I Jason, I I caught the very tail end of that panel discussion and you you were asking somebody about how their life had changed. I couldn't see who it was, but asking how their life had changed cuz they had been in the big house, which it appears to me you meant prison, but I I thought you were talking about the Michigan football team stadium they played. So, very different understanding of what you were talking about and what was actually going on.
**杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: 是啊。
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: Yeah.
### 执政两年的核心政绩：边境管控与制造业回流 **杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: 能请您再次回到我们节目真是太棒了。我们一直非常感谢您抽出宝贵时间加入“Besties”的行列，与我们展开非常坦诚、真实的交流对话。我想这已经是您第三次还是第四次做客我们的节目了。而且现在正是来节目的绝佳时机，因为你们的任期差不多刚好过半，**中期选举**也即将来临。或许您可以先评估一下在这前两年里，哪些工作进展得非常顺利、哪些是您深感自豪的政绩；然后我们再深入探讨一些或许连你们自己的支持选民也感到不满的事情。让我们先从积极的方面开始：您认为在这前两年中，你们都取得了哪些关键成就？
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: Uh, well, it's great it's great to have you back. We always appreciate that you take the time to join the besties and have a very candid, honest discussion. This is your, I think, third or fourth time on the program. Uh, and it's a great time to be on the program because you're halfway through uh your term approximately and the midterms are coming up. maybe you could assess what's went really well for and what you're proud of with this uh first two years and then let's get into some things that maybe your own constituents um are not happy with and uh let's start with the positive. What do you think you've accomplished in these first two years?
**J.D.万斯**: 好的，我认为最让我感到自豪的有两件事： 第一，我们切实掌控住了南部边境，并且真正开始逆转了非法移民的涌入潮——今天的非法移民数量比我们刚上任时减少了大约 **300万人**。显然，后面还有很多工作要做，但如果你回顾二战后西方政府的历史，你会发现他们往往是大开国门、坐视甚至招致边境入侵，却从未真正去扭转过这种局面；他们充其量只是放缓其增速而已。我认为**唐纳德·特朗普**（Donald Trump）总统是我有生之年第一位真正逆转了非法移民流入趋势的总统，对此我感到极其自豪。 第二点我也深感自豪，正如你们各位所知，长期以来我一直近乎偏执地专注于这件事情，那就是让美利坚合众国的**制造业基地重新实现工业化与资本重组**（re-industrializing and recapitalizing）。过去两党曾达成一种全面拥抱全球化的共识，全盘接受了这样一种观念：即你可以构建一个完全围绕服务业、科技和金融业运转的繁荣经济体。但现实情况当然是，要拥有一个真正繁荣稳固的经济，你依然必须亲手制造实体物品。我认为唐纳德·特朗普比任何人都更深刻地理解这一点。 显然，重建一个国家的制造业根基需要漫长的时间。但如果你审视目前数万亿美元的新增投资、大规模的新工程建设，以及正在拔地而起的新制造工厂，我认为你能看到极其显著的迹象——在过去的18个月里，我们成功逆转了长达40年的去工业化趋势。当然，罗马不是一天建成的，要彻底消除过去40年所造成的破坏需要更长的时间。但我们已经在正确的轨道上大步前行，这是唐纳德·特朗普的标志性成就。而且我认为，未来人们记住他的这一点甚至会超过他在边境问题上的功绩：他将被历史铭记为终结了全球化旧共识、并切实推行政策让我们重回正轨的历史性人物。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Well, look, I I think the the two things that I'm most proud of are first of all, we actually got control of the southern border, but started to reverse the flow of illegal immigration, which is about 3 million lower today than it was when we came into office. Obviously, there's a lot more to do, but if you look at the history of Western governments in the post-war era, they open the border. They invite border invasions, but they never actually reverse it. At best, they slow it down. I think President Trump was the first president in my lifetime to actually reverse that flow of illegal immigration. I'm extremely proud of that. I'm also proud, as you guys know, I've been obsessively focused on this. I I I've been obsessively focused on this for a long time, which is the idea of re-industrializing and recapitalizing the the the manufacturing base of the United States of America. And, you know, this was a bipartisan consensus that leaned into globalization that sort of bought into this idea that you could have a prosperous economy that was built entirely around services, tech, and finance. And the reality of course is that to have a truly prosperous economy, you still have to make stuff. And I think Donald Trump understood that better than anybody else. Obviously, it takes a long time uh to rebuild the manufacturing base of the country. But if you look at the trillions of dollars of new investment, the new construction, uh the new manufacturing facilities being built, I do think that you're seeing the obvious signs that over the past 18 months, we've reversed a 40-year trend. Now, Rome wasn't built in a day. going to take longer to fully undo the damage wrought by the last 40 years. But the fact that we're actually on the right pathway is a signature achievement of Donald Trump. But I think it's the thing that he will be remembered for even more than the border. He will be remembered for ending the sort of consensus around globalization and actually enacting policies that get us on the on the right track. Again,
### 直面选民关切：海外冲突与通胀赤字难题 **杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: 我想我们大家都赞同这两点，对你们在这两方面取得的辉煌成果表示衷心祝贺。你们确实干得非常漂亮，我想我们全体都认可这一点。 然而，你们的选民——那些投票支持你们的人民——目前对两个核心问题感到极度沮丧。让我们直面并正视它们： 第一个问题是，你们曾向我们郑重承诺，绝不会卷入外国纷争、绝不会发动对外战争，特别是承诺过绝不会在中东点燃战火。 第二个问题是，你们曾承诺会让**通货膨胀**得到彻底控制。但你们至今未能完全控制住通胀，今年的通胀率依然在 **3% 到 4%** 左右徘徊，形势看起来并不乐观。美国人民，尤其是投票给你们的选民，副总统先生，对于卷入这场冲突感到非常愤怒和不安。您想对他们传达什么信息？这两个问题究竟该如何解决？因为民众对此感到非常不满。
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: I think we we all agree with those two and just absolute congratulations on that. Uh you guys have crushed it. I think we all concur. um your constituents, the people who voted for you are extremely frustrated about two issues. Let's just tackle them head-on. The first is you promised us you wouldn't start a foreign war. You promised us you wouldn't start a foreign war in the Middle East specifically. And then you promised you would get inflation under control. You haven't been able to get inflation under control. Still 3 or 4% this year. It's not looking good. And Americans, specifically the people who voted for you, Mr. vice president are very upset about starting this war. What is your message to them? How do these two issues get resolved? Because people are very unhappy about it.
**J.D.万斯**: 是的。杰森，我完全理解这种情绪，我也确实常常听到选民的这些声音。首先我想说的是，我们非常欢迎对我们持有不同意见的人加入我们的执政联盟，你完全不需要在每一个具体议题上都与我们保持一致。 但具体就战争问题而言，我想说的是：请大家看一看，总统上任时面临的是一场已经在中东全面肆虐的战争。他没有去开启任何一场新的对外战争；相反，他自始至终都在全力以赴地平息并终结这些战争。 让我们客观回顾一下：在这届政府执政期间，**乌克兰与俄罗斯之间**已经正式达成了和平协议——乌克兰战争彻底宣告结束！在世界其他许多地区，紧张局势也得到了实质性降温。至于中东局势，现实情况是那里原本就正处于一场极其激烈且复杂的全面战火之中，而我们正在竭尽全力在短时间内将其平息。总统并没有在中东开启战端，而是继承了一个在中东早已爆发战事的烂摊子。 回顾过去40年里历任白宫主人上任后的做法：乔治·W·布什上任后开启了阿富汗和伊拉克两场战争；巴拉克·奥巴马任内让叙利亚和利比亚陷入战火；乔·拜登任内爆发了乌克兰战争和中东冲突。而唐纳德·特朗普是过去40年中唯一一位上任后**没有开启任何新的对外军事干涉**的美国总统。他所做的一切，都是在竭尽全力扑灭前任留下的战火。 在中东问题上，我们始终坚守一个不可动摇的核心原则：**绝不派遣美国地面部队进入中东战场**。这就是我们的底线所在。我们绝不会重蹈过去二十年的覆辙，让成千上万的美国年轻士兵去中东的沙漠里无谓流血牺牲。我们正在运用外交施压、经济杠杆以及精准遏制等手段，推动各方走向停火与和平。因此，对于那些心存疑虑的支持者，我想对你们说：请看看整体局势发展的轨迹，特朗普总统始终是一位和平的缔造者，而不是战争的挑起者。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Yeah. So, so Jason, I understand that and I certainly hear from people. And what I would say first of all is we invite people into the coalition who disagree with us. You don't have to agree with us on every single issue. But on the war specifically, what I I would say is look, the president came in to a war that was already going on in the Middle East. He hasn't started any foreign wars. He's been trying to bring them to an end. If you look at the fact that under this administration, the war in Ukraine and Russia has come to an end, peace has been declared there. Other parts of the world, we've de-escalated tensions. And in the Middle East, the reality is that there was an active, very hot war going on that we've been trying to bring to a close in short order. The president didn't start a war in the Middle East. He inherited a war in the Middle East. And if you look at what every president has done coming in over the last 40 years, George W. Bush came in, started two wars. Barack Obama came in, got involved in Syria and Libya. Joe Biden came in and of course had the Ukraine war and the Middle East conflict. Donald Trump is the only president in the last 40 years to come in and not start any new foreign entanglements. What he's tried to do is bring the ones that he inherited to a close. And our fundamental principle in the Middle East is that we're not sending American troops into the Middle East. That's the boundary line. We are not going to repeat the mistakes of the last 20 years. We're trying to use diplomatic leverage, economic leverage, to bring that to a peaceful resolution. And I think that we're on the pathway to doing that.
### 财政赤字攻坚与万亿级政府反欺诈 **J.D.万斯**: 至于你提到的通货膨胀和财政赤字问题，这是一个非常关键且极其合理的问题。 从根本上说，在我个人全力主抓的**政府反欺诈专项工作**中，我们目前已经成功为美国纳税人挽回并节省了大约 **2500亿美元**原本会被欺诈分子非法侵吞的资金。当然，在高达 **7万亿美元**的联邦财政总预算体量面前，2500亿美元显然无法解决所有问题，但它依然是一笔巨额资金，是我们在反腐败和整肃政府开支方面深感自豪的扎实成果。我们必须继续攻坚，彻底铲除根深蒂固于联邦官僚体制内部的欺诈与严重浪费。 当然，要真正让金融市场建立起长远信心，我们绝对需要达成实质性的跨党派立法解决方案。这不仅是为了表明我们这届政府对解决赤字问题是严肃认真的，更是为了确保下一任总统和未来的国会也能严肃对待赤字风险。 我认为当前最核心的症结所在，也是金融市场当下最焦虑的问题，在于外界普遍认为国会两党的建制派议员根本没有把控制债务和削减赤字当回事。作为本届政府的副总统，我当然带有主观视角，但我确信我们政府对这个问题是极其严肃的。 如果大家关注即将与我见面的财政部长**斯科特·贝森特**（Scott Bessent）的施政思路，他一直强调我们必须面对现实：我们接手的是一个高达 **2万亿美元**的巨额财政赤字烂摊子。你不可能指望一夜之间从7万亿美元的总预算中硬生生砍掉2万亿美元来直接实现预算平衡。切实可行的路径是：一方面进行精明精准的预算削减，另一方面全力推动实体经济增长，使财政赤字占国内生产总值（GDP）的比重逐步降至更健康的 **3%** 左右。 虽然我们仍需取得更多进展，但审视斯科特在财政部推行的政策，我们完全有信心将财政赤字拉回到可持续的合理区间，并在站稳脚跟后持续优化财政状况。但归根结底，这需要长期的跨党派共识与立法配合。因为坦率地讲，国会中的许多议员——不仅是民主党人，也包括相当一部分共和党人——在削减开支方面始终缺乏真正的政治魄力和严肃态度。我们必须彻底扭转这种局面。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Yeah, look, it's a very important and fair question. I mean, I I think that in fundamentally the the anti-fraud efforts that I've been focused on, we've saved about $250 billion of the American taxpayers money that would have otherwise gone to fraudsters. And in the scale of a 7 trillion federal budget, obviously $250 billion isn't the whole thing, but it's a lot and it's something that we're very proud of. I think we have to continue to sort of just tackling the basic fraud and waste that's endemic to our government. And of course, we are going to need some real bipartisan legislative solutions to give markets confidence. Not just that we're going to be serious about the deficit, but that hopefully the president who comes after and the Congress that comes after is going to be serious about the deficit. I think fundamentally the problem here, and I I think what the markets are responding to at this moment is the perception that neither congressional Republicans or Democrats are serious about the debt and the deficit. Obviously, I think the administration, I'm biased. I think that we are serious about this issue. If you look at what Scott Bassen, who I'm going to meet with in a couple of hours, actually, uh what Scott Bassen has talked about is, you know, let's be realistic. We have we we inherited a $2 trillion fiscal deficit. And you're not going to get back to a balanced budget by cutting $2 trillion out of a $7 trillion budget overnight. What you can do is you can cut smartly but also grow and get the economy in a position where that fiscal deficit is closer to 3% of GDP. Now yes we got to make more progress but if you look at what Scott has done at the Treasury I think that we are on pace to get to a point where we can get the fiscal deficit to a sustainable level and then of course you get it to a sustainable level and you can continue to make progress from there. But it is certainly a very serious problem, something that we're very focused on. And I guess what I would say to to markets is we've got a secretary of the Treasury, but also a president who are very focused on the problem, but it's going to require a long-term solution. Ideally, something with some bipartisan consensus, which is something we'll have to see about because let's be honest, uh, a lot of people in Congress, not just Democrats, but a lot of people in Congress have not shown a willingness to be serious about spending. We have to change that.
### 电力基建瓶颈、中美能源博弈与AI安全监管反思 **查马斯·帕里哈皮蒂亚**: 副总统先生，让我们顺着这个话题进一步深入探讨。摆脱赤字困境的核心路径之一就是依靠经济增长和全要素生产率的提升。 然而，眼下存在着一种极其荒谬的反常动态：在美国内部似乎有诸多力量在千方百计地拖慢我们的发展步伐。无论是围绕**AI数据中心**建设的重重阻力——昨天特朗普总统亲自连线帮助澄清事实，黄仁勋的英伟达、Meta以及微软等科技巨头的高管也都在这里辟谣澄清——但要想把真相传递出去，简直就像是在玩一场永无止境的“打地鼠”游戏。 请您跟我们深入谈谈，我们究竟是如何沦落到今天这种地步的？为什么这些势力能够通过肆无忌惮地撒谎、制造恐慌来试图阻碍发展并谋取政治权力？
Original English **Chamath Palihapitiya**: Let's, um, let's maybe double click on that, Mr. Vice President. There's one one of the ways that we can get out of this is through growth and productivity growth. But there is this crazy dynamic where it just seems like there are forces many inside the United States um that try to slow us down whether it's data centers and you may have heard yesterday but the president called in and tried to help debunk it with Jensen Meta uh was here debunking uh Microsoft was here but it just seems like a whack-a-mole problem of trying to actually get the truth out. just talk to us about how we've ended up in this situation where there are these forces that are trying to effectively lie or fear-monger to try to take power.
**J.D.万斯**: 是的，查马斯，关于这个话题我觉得我们完全可以畅聊上整整一个小时。我知道我们今天时间有限，但从根本上来说，当我看到当前社会对建设数据中心的强烈抵触情绪时，我看到的其实是**美国整整一代人未能建设足够电力基础设施所导致的必然恶果**。 我们之前也讨论过这个问题。我在全美各地参与竞选集会、频繁与普通民众交流时发现，反对数据中心的情绪中固然存在一定程度的“邻避效应”（NIMBYism），但更深层的现实是：当你去和一个普通家庭父亲交谈，他一年前的月度电费账单还是 **290美元**，而现在却暴涨到了 **580美元**！尤其是在那些推行极端环保管制导致新建发电厂几乎寸步难行的深蓝州，当老百姓不得不承担飞涨的电费成本时，民意的反弹与抵触是必然会爆发的。 我对这种现象的回应是：你绝不能因为电费上涨就因噎废食地停止建设！正确的做法是全力去建造你所迫切需要的基础设施，尤其是**电力能源**。 埃隆·马斯克经常强调这一点，我也一直在大声呼吁：如果你对比**中国**（中华人民共和国）与美利坚合众国的发电总量数据，在 **2005年**前后，中国的发电量正式超越了美国；而自那以后的近二十年里，美国的发电总量几乎处于**完全停滞的横盘状态**（flatlined）。而今天，中国的总发电量已经是美国的**整整三倍**！ 我认为美国今天面临的大量深层问题，本质上都是这一核心能源瓶颈的下游产物。我们必须全力大规模建造发电设施，美国必须树立起**让电力便宜到无需计量**（electricity that is too cheap to meter）的宏大愿景！唯有通过极大充沛的能源供给，才能彻底瓦解那些荒谬的阻碍发展的思潮。 极端环保主义运动在过去几十年里对此负有不可推卸的责任。但归根到底，解决之道唯有大规模扩建电力基建。 进一步延伸到人工智能领域，我认为特朗普总统提出了一个极其一针见血的质问：为什么那些站在AI技术最前沿的领军人物，现在却纷纷两手一摊、惊呼自己亲手造出了“科学怪人弗兰肯斯坦”（Frankenstein），并声称解决弗兰肯斯坦的唯一方案是建立一个全球统一的AI极权监管体系？ 我对这些技术领袖想说的是：如果你真的觉得自己正在制造毁灭性的弗兰肯斯坦，那你就立刻停手！如果潘多拉魔盒已经打开，那你应当时刻致力于打造防御弗兰肯斯坦的护盾工具。 我个人并不熟识**达里奥·阿莫代伊**（Dario Amodei，Anthropic首席执行官）。我认真研读过他最近发表的所有文章和观点。我认识的每个人都告诉我他非常真诚，这是他内心深处的坚定信念，绝非出于行业恶意准入壁垒或监管俘获的私心。但在现实中，我与许多科技企业交谈时发现：就在 **Anthropic** 最新的前沿模型衍生出强大的网络攻击渗透能力的同时，大量迫切需要防御工具来抵御这些潜在网络威胁的企业，却被拒绝赋予相应的访问权限！ 因此，如果你自称在制造弗兰肯斯坦，不要跑来找联邦政府要求设立繁苛的行业监管法案；请先反求诸己：第一，如果你造的是怪物，那就立即停止；第二，当其他企业为了防范安全风险向你寻求防御工具时，请把这些防御武器完整交付给他们！
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Yeah. So, this is something I think we could spend an hour talking about. I know we don't have that much time, Chimath, but but fundamentally when I see the backlash to data centers, what I see is the the the the necessary the inevitable consequence of the United States not building enough power for a generation. And so we've talked about this before, but if if when I talk to people, I obviously sort of I'm out there campaigning a lot. I'm talking to people a lot. Uh there there's definitely some basic nimiism in the anti-data center thing, but there's also, you know, you talk to a guy who a year ago his power bill was $290 a month and now it's $580 a month. And the reality is that in blue states where we've made it impossible to build additional electricity generation, you're seeing a backlash when people start paying additional power costs. Now, my response to that is you can't just stop building because of it. What you've got to do is build the things that you need, specifically power. So, you know, Elon talks about this all the time, but I talk about it, too. If you look at the amount of power generated by the PRC, the People's Republic of China, and compare it to the amount of power generated by the United States of America in 2005, they crossed the line, meaning they started to generate just a little bit more power than we did in 2005. And since then, we have effectively flatlined. and the PRC now generates three times as much electricity as the United States of America does. I think that a lot of our problems um are downstream of that fundamental problem and we just have to build more. We have to build more power. We I mean, you know, I I think we have to have this vision in the United States of electricity that is too cheap to meter. And that's I think the way that you push back against some of this ridiculous um you know sort of anti-building power comes from the failure to generate the electricity that we need. And I I just I don't understand how we ever got here as a country. I think the environmental movement obviously has a lot to do with it, but we've just got to build more power and that's how we solve this problem fundamentally. And then you know obviously some of this gets into the broader AI stuff Jamaimoth and you know the president I think is very rightly asking the question why is it that the people who are at the frontier of the AI economy are throwing up their hands and saying well we've built Frankenstein and the solution to Frankenstein apparently is to create a one world governance structure for artificial intelligence. What I would say to those people, if you're building Frankenstein, stop. Or maybe build, you know, if if the cat is out of the bag, then build the defensive mechanism against Frankenstein. And, you know, I I I I I don't know Daario well. I I've read everything that he said over the past couple of weeks. Everybody that I know tells me that he's very earnest, that this is a deeply held belief. It's not cynical. It's not about regulatory capture, that he genuinely cares about this. But at the same time, I talk to tech companies. I'm sure you guys talk to a lot more tech companies than I do. At the same time that you have this sort of cyber hacking tool that's come out of Anthropic's newest models, you have companies that are desperate for the defensive mechanisms to defend against that cyber hacking tool and they're being denied access to it. So if you're going to create Frankenstein, don't come to the government and say we need regulation. look inward and accept that if you're building Frankenstein, number one, you should stop. And number two, when the companies come to you and say, "We need the tools to fight back against Frankenstein," give them those tools.
**查马斯·帕里哈皮蒂亚**: 确实如此。
Original English **Chamath Palihapitiya**: Right. Oh,
**杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: 这番话极其符合常识。接下来请布拉德提问，然后交由萨克斯。
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: it's incredibly common sensical. Uh Brad and then maybe Sachs. Yep.
### 与特朗普共事：企业家精神与打破平庸的决断力 **布拉德·格斯特纳**: 副总统先生，见到您太高兴了。特朗普总统昨天也连线了节目，他对AI等前沿议题掌握得非常透彻。您正在为一位可以说是过去50年里最具企业家精神和冒险魄力的总统工作。 从您个人共事的亲身经历来看，与这样一位勇于承担巨大风险的领袖并肩作战是一种怎样的体验？刚才杰森提到了一些过去20个月里未能尽如人意的政策细节，但不可否认的事实是，与以往许多只求按部就班、选择最安全稳妥路径的白宫主人截然不同，特朗普总统敢于承担常人不敢企及的巨大风险。包括“特朗普账户”（Trump Accounts）以及支持实体经济的“主街议程”（Main Street Agenda）等宏大计划都需要您去协助阐释。请从个人层面跟我们聊聊，跟上他那惊人的充沛精力、狂热激情和开拓精神到底有多不容易？
Original English **Brad Gerstner**: Mr. Vice President, great to see you. Um you know, the president called in yesterday. He's on top of the AI issue. you you're working for somebody who's the most incredibly entrepreneurial and risk-taking president perhaps in the last 50 years. I just had a at a you know personal level how is it working with somebody who is willing to take the risk that you know some people you know Jason criticized some of the things that haven't happened in the first 20 months but the fact of the matter is unlike a lot of people who occupy that office who are just looking to stay the course and take the safe path he's taking a lot of risks and then you have to help explain some of those I would I would put Trump accounts in that category the main street agenda But, you know, just talk to us a little bit at a personal level how working with him, how hard it is to keep up with his energy, his enthusiasm, his entrepreneurialism.
**J.D.万斯**: 是的，布拉德，你非常了解他。他的睡眠时间比我见过的任何人都少。我自认为睡得已经不多了，但他睡得比我还要少得多。我和斯科特·贝森特经常开玩笑说，总统会在凌晨两点半突然打电话过来问：“你睡了吗？”我们只能苦笑着回答：“报告总统，我刚才睡着了，但现在彻底醒了，请问您有什么指示？” 他真的是一天24小时无休止地在工作。但布拉德，你的观察非常精准：他确实极其敢于承担风险。 如果你问我为这样一个人工作是什么体验：首先，你永远不会感到无聊；其次，他总是在不断追问和审视：我们现在选择的是一条轻松舒适的捷径，还是一条艰难但正确的道路？ 哪怕某项决策可能会在当下引发政治阻力和舆论反弹，哪怕它的深远回报可能要等到两年、五年甚至十年之后才会完全显现，他依然会毫不犹豫地选择正确的道路。我认为这种企业家思维正是国家最急需的。 回顾我大半生对经济与政治的观察，我最感到沮丧的一点就是：在真正的**创新开拓者**与**平庸职业经理人**之间、在官僚体制与敢于承担风险的革新者之间，存在着一条巨大的鸿沟。在我有生之年，我们经历了太多“看守型”的平庸总统，也见识了太多碌碌无为的守成型CEO，却极度匮乏真正具备创新魄力与敢冒风险的领袖。 虽然特朗普总统时常因此遭受外界的非议与指责，但我宁愿拥有一位敢于承担政治风险、敢于启动国家级宏大工程的实干总统。我认为这是扭转美国长期衰退命运的唯一途径。感谢上帝，在过去的18个月里，我们终于拥有了一位真正敢作敢当的总统。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Yeah, Brad, you know him well. He he sleeps less than any person that I've ever met. I don't sleep that much, but I certainly sleep more than him. You know, Scott Bassin and I always joke that he'll call us at 2:30 in the morning and he'll say, "Were you up?" And it's like, "No, sir, I wasn't, but I am now. So, let's let's talk about what's on your mind." Uh, he's working at all hours of the day. But but your point, Brad, is is very well taken. He is certainly willing to take risks. And I I I think, you know, you ask what it's like working for a guy like that. Well, one, it's never boring. But two, he's constantly probing, are we taking the easy path or are we taking the right path? And yes, maybe this thing is going to cause some political backlash or maybe the payoff is not going to be obvious until, you know, two years from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now. But I think it's the exact right mindset. You know, one one of the frustrations I've had just looking at the economy, you know, pretty much my entire life is there's there's been this division between true entrepreneurs and managers, between bureaucrats and people who are genuinely innovative and willing to take risks. I think that we've had way too many caretaker presidents during my lifetime. Uh, frankly, way too many caretaker CEOs and not enough people who are genuinely innovative and willing to take risks. Obviously, he gets criticized for it from time to time, but I'd much rather have a president who's willing to take those risks, who's willing to take on the big projects. It's the only way I think you're going to reverse America's long-term decline is to be willing to take those risks. Thank God for the past 18 months, we've had a president willing to do just that.
### H-1B签证改革：打击滥用与保护美国本土劳动力 **大卫·萨克斯**: 副总统先生，杰森刚才忘了抛出他平时最喜欢追问的关于 **H-1B签证** 的刁钻问题了。所以……
Original English **David Sacks**: Uh Mr. Vice President, uh Jake forgot to ask uh his normal gotcha question on H1Bs. So, um,
**杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: 那是因为他们听取了我的建议并提高了申请费用！在这个问题上我们步调完全一致。
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: well, that's because they took my advice and they raised the price. You were in sync on that one.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 众所周知，这是整个科技界极其高度关注的核心议题。但与此同时，大家也逐渐看清原有的H-1B签证体系内部充斥着猖獗的欺诈与滥用。我很想请您给科技界一个权威更新：目前这些整顿工作的最新进展如何？H-1B政策到底正在发生怎样的变革？
Original English **David Sacks**: Um, it, you know, it's an issue that the tech community cares about. At the same time, we have learned that the program was riddled with fraud. I'm curious what can you give us an update on, you know, where do those efforts stand? What, you know, what's happening with that the H-1Bs?
**J.D.万斯**: 是的，这可以说是杰森·卡拉卡尼斯与**史蒂芬·米勒**（Stephen Miller）在韦恩图上难得重叠的极少数交集领域之一，这个交集范围确实非常小。 但说正经的，当我们深入审视整个H-1B体系中的系统性欺诈时，我们清楚意识到：第一，国会绝不可能通过立法来彻底修正这一问题，华盛顿根本没有足够的政治意愿；因此第二，我们必须探索在行政权限范围内能够采取哪些果断措施。 我们的目标是确保：如果一家科技企业确实需要申请H-1B签证引进外籍人才，那么引进的必须是**真正的顶尖天才**，必须是能够对美国科技生态或国家经济产生重大推动作用的核心人才！而不是让大企业用年薪 **4.5万美元** 的廉价外籍劳工，去无情替换掉年薪 **6万美元** 的美国本土普通会计师。这种廉价替代绝对不是H-1B制度设立的初衷。 因此，我们推出了**加征10万美元高额申请费**的制度设计。同时，我们正在通过多重行政机制，严厉打击并阻止那些一边利用H-1B大量引进外劳、一边在国内大规模裁撤美国员工的企业行为。 最让我感到震惊和不可接受的现象是：某家科技公司向政府提交H-1B申请时信誓旦旦地宣称“我们极度匮乏劳动力、在美国本土根本招不到合适人才”；然而一查其用工记录，他们刚刚在本土无情裁员了 **5000人**！这简直荒谬透顶。如果你正在大举解雇美国本土工人，你就绝没有资格跑到国际劳动力市场上寻求廉价外劳来填补岗位。 我们正在法定行政权限内全面推进整顿。虽然我们在某些举措上面临着法律诉讼，但在法律依据和国家政策层面上，我们无疑完全站在正义的一方。H-1B绝不能沦为用廉价外籍工替代美国劳动者的工具，它必须真正服务于强化美国的经济与技术竞争力。这正是我们坚决推行的改革方向。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Yeah. No, this is the the vin diagram overlap of Jason Calcconis and Steven Miller. It's a very small area. But but look man, we we we looked at the fraud in the system and we said, you know, one, Congress is not going to pass a law changing this, there just isn't the political will to do it. So what are the things that we can do administratively to ensure that if a tech company is going to try to get an H-1B visa, it it's an actual genius. It's a person that is going to significantly enrich the tech ecosystem or the American economy. you know, you're not just replacing one accountant who makes $60,000 with a lower wage foreign accountant who makes $45,000 a year. That is not what the program exists for. And so, we came up with this idea to impose $100,000 fee. We're also looking at various ways of preventing companies that use H-1B visas from laying off a bunch of American workers. Uh so, you know, one of the the things that I find just shocking about this is you'll have a company that applies for an H-1B and they'll say, "Oh, we're desperate for workers. we can't find the workers. And then you go and look at their history and they've laid off 5,000 people. Well, that's ridiculous. If you're laying off American workers, you shouldn't be going to the market searching for foreign workers to replace them. So, we're doing a lot within the confines, of course, of what we're allowed to do legally. We've gotten sued on some of this stuff, but I think fundamentally we're on the right on both the law and the policy. The H1B should not exist to replace American workers with low-wage foreigners. It should exist to enrich the American economy. And that's exactly what we're trying to make sure it does.
### 深蓝州福利黑洞：万亿美元级欺诈与问责困境 **大卫·萨克斯**: 副总统先生，我想接着请教：外界现在都称呼您为**“反欺诈沙皇”**（Fraud Czar）。回到我们刚才讨论的财政赤字问题，现在每周网络上都会曝出令人震惊的调查视频。今天下午公民记者**尼克·雪莉**（Nick Shirley）也来到了现场，我认为正是他引领了公民独立调查政府系统性欺诈的浪潮。每周被曝光的腐败黑幕都在刷新人们的认知，涉及的金额动辄数百亿美元。 例如**加州高铁项目**，有个意大利富豪、某足球俱乐部老板，甚至不用实际干活就白白领走了 **5亿美元** 的巨额公款！这简直令人匪夷所思。当我追踪这些案例时，真的感到触目惊心、令人头晕目眩。 在全美高达 **7万亿美元** 的联邦总支出中，您认为到底有多大比例被卷入了这种系统性的欺诈、浪费与腐败之中？在您看来，这个问题的真实规模究竟有多庞大？
Original English **David Sacks**: Mr. Vice President, can I can I ask um you're you're I I think you're you're titled the frauds are now. And just going back to the the um the deficit question, every week we're seeing these videos. You know, we've got Nick Shirley here this afternoon. I think he really started this trend of some of the citizen journalists going out and trying to find the fraud in the system themselves. And every week there's a new story that's being uncovered that's just mind-blowing. tens of billions of dollars over and over again. How much fraud do you think there? And and you know this California highspeed rail, there was a guy that got paid half a billion dollars for not working. Some billionaire in Italy who owns a football team. I couldn't believe it. I I tracked all this stuff and I'm like it just your head starts to spin. How much of our $7 trillion federal spending do you think is tied up in fraud, in this kind of system of waste and this corruption? And what's your sense of the scale of the the problem?
**J.D.万斯**: 好的，关于这个问题我有两点需要重点阐述： 第一，**埃隆·马斯克**（Elon Musk）在“政府效率部”（DOGE）推进最为白热化的高峰期曾公开指出，联邦支出中的欺诈与浪费比例高达 **20%**，这意味着每年高达 **1.4万亿美元**！无论是按10%还是20%来计算，我们所谈论的都是数千亿乃至上万亿美元规模的惊人黑洞。 然而，彻查和打击政府欺诈面临的最大障碍在于：**欺诈最为严重的州，恰恰是那些对联邦反欺诈调查最不配合、最抗拒合作的深蓝州**。 当你审视那些涉及金额极其庞大的欺诈重灾区时：比如加州的**联邦医疗保险**（Medicare）欺诈，受保名单里充斥着非法移民，甚至大量根本不存在于现实世界的“幽灵人口”和虚构空壳身份。然而令人遗憾的是，加州州政府不仅不配合，反而处处阻挠联邦政府对这些特定欺诈行为的调查打击。 再比如在**伊利诺伊州**、**纽约州**和**加利福尼亚州**，据我们掌握的数据，有数十万甚至更多的非法移民被违规纳入了白卡医疗救助（Medicaid）体系，每年耗费纳税人数百亿美元的巨额医疗资金。 系统性欺诈滋生的重灾区，正是那些任由非法移民失控泛滥的州所掌控的庞大福利项目。 另一个极其典型的触目惊心案例是 **SNAP项目**（补充营养援助计划，即食品券计划）。该计划设立的本意是确保低收入美国公民能够获得维持温饱的基本食物，保障贫困家庭儿童不挨饿，这原本是联邦政府最崇高的公共职责之一。 然而这项计划如今充斥着猖獗的欺诈，其根本原因在于其荒谬的拨款运行机制：加利福尼亚州每个月只需向联邦政府提交一份当月的SNAP项目请款单，金额往往高达 **70亿、80亿乃至90亿美元**。联邦政府随后就必须在毫无审核机制的情况下，直接将近百亿美元巨款全额电汇给加州政府！ 毫不夸张地说，联邦政府目前根本无法获知这些领取食品券的究竟是不是真实存在的人、是不是具有合法居留资格的美国居民。当我们要求这些深蓝州配合核查申请人最基本的法定领取资格时，我们遭遇的是全面抵制与拒不配合。面对这种关乎良政善治最基础的合规审核，他们拒绝提供任何协作。 据我保守估计，如果在全美欺诈规模高达 **7000亿美元**，其中至少有数千亿美元盘踞在这些深蓝州。我们原本只需要通过严格核查法定申请资格就能轻易堵住这些漏洞。我们正在探索创新的行政与司法手段强制推行审查，但客观而言，要通过法律手段强迫这些深蓝州遵守最基本的反欺诈规范，其遭遇的政治与法律阻力远比想象中要艰难得多。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Yeah. So, to two quick things on that. First of all, you know, Elon during the height of Doge said that it was 20%, that's $1.4 trillion. Uh whether it's 10% or 20%, you're talking about something on the scale of hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars. The biggest problem with finding fraud is is actually that the states where it's worst are also the states that have the least willingness to cooperate with what we're doing. So when you look at some of the bigger ticket items for fraud, you know, you looking at Medicare fraud in California, people who are illegal, people who aren't even like human beings. They're just like a completely madeup, you know, shell of a person. Uh but but unfortunately, the the state of California is not actually helping us fight back against that particular fraud. or we know that there are hundreds of thousands maybe more illegal aliens in Illinois, New York and California who are on Medicaid. That obviously is billions and billions of dollars to provide health care uh to those people. So the the the basic fraud that exists is the big programs in states that have allowed themselves to be overrun by illegal immigration. Another very good example, and this was shocking to me when we came in and started doing this work, is the way the SNAP program, this is the food stamp program that ensures that low-income Americans have access to food that they need. Obviously, one of the most important things that we do in the federal government is make sure that, you know, poor kids can eat. But that program is rife with fraud in part because the way it works is, you know, California bills us once a month for the cost of their SNAP program. It's seven or eight or 9 billion depending on the month that we're talking about. So what happens is the federal government wires $9 billion to California, no questions asked. So, it's not an exaggeration to say that we have no ability to know who is even on the SNAP program, whether they're a real human being, whether they're a legal resident of the United States of America. And when we go to the big blue states and say, "Why don't you help us just confirm basic eligibility?" We get totally push back. We we get no cooperation on this basic fact of good governance, confirming eligibility for federal programs. So my guess is that if the number is $700 billion, a few hundred billion of that is in the blue states and we could deal with it just by checking eligibility criteria. We're working on innovative ways to force that. But it's actually legally much harder than it should be to force the blue states to comply with some basic anti-fraud initiatives.
### 外交战略底线：美以关系、北约自主与美国利益优先 **杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: J.D.，在结束访谈之前，我还想向您提出另一个硬核问题，这个问题关乎我们与**以色列国**的关系，以及特朗普总统与**本雅明·内塔尼亚胡**（Benjamin Netanyahu）总理的互动。 在共和党与“MAGA”阵营内部，许多人正在向更加鲜明的“美国优先、唯有美国”（America First, America Only）立场转变。社会上反犹主义有所抬头，同时在右翼群体内部始终存在着一种广泛担忧，认为美国的外交政策在过大程度上受到了以色列或内塔尼亚胡的牵引与影响。您能否向我们披露一下当前美以关系的真实状态？以及本届政府在与以色列开展诸多军事行动协作时的原则立场？
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: Uh JD, before we wrap here, I want to ask you another hard question. Um this one about our relationship with the state of Israel and the president's relationship with BB Netanyahu. Um many people in the Republican party, MAGA are now moving to a new party, America first, America only. There's a rise in anti-semitism and there's a persistent belief amongst a lot of the people on the right that maybe our foreign policy is too influenced by the state of Israel or BB Netanyahu. Can you take us into the relationship right now where it stands uh and and and the you know the administration's position on collaborating with Israel on a lot of these military activities?
**J.D.万斯**: 是的。杰森，正如特朗普总统多次公开表明的立场：以色列在军事科技合作和情报共享方面，毫无疑问是美国极其重要的战略伙伴。但与此同时，美国与以色列在某些具体议题上也绝非完全步调一致。 我认为坦率地讲，比起过去40年里的任何一位美国总统，特朗普总统都更有魄力在感到美国人民的核心利益与以色列政府的利益产生分歧时，坚决与内塔尼亚胡分道扬镳、各走各的路。 杰森，我觉得这其中充满了一种讽刺意味：民主党人总是无端攻击特朗普与内塔尼亚胡走得太近；但纵观过去40年的历史，唯独特朗普总统敢于公开当面表态：“内塔尼亚胡是个很好的合作伙伴，但在某个具体问题上我和他观点不同，或者内塔尼亚胡在某件事上是错误的；又或者从以色列的国家立场来看内塔尼亚胡或许是对的，但美国人民的核心利益要求我们必须选择完全不同的方向。” 我认为，将美以关系以及世界上所有的双边外交关系，全部牢牢**锚定在美利坚合众国的国家利益之上**，才是展开一切理性对话的前提与基石。 当你始终聚焦于某项特定政策是否真正符合美国国家利益时，美国人民才会确信你是在真正为他们而战。这种理性思维也迫使我们必须打破过去二三十年里沦为陈词滥调或政治口号的旧模式，在形势发生变化时果断改弦易辙。 这也正是我们处理所有国际关系的根本方法。比如当特朗普总统在**北约**（NATO）问题上阐述他的战略主张时，也曾遭遇类似的建制派阻力。总统的立场非常明确：北约内部固然存在着大量重要的战略伙伴关系，但绝不意味着美国在欧洲的外交政策必须全盘屈从于北约的意志；同理，我们在中东的外交政策也绝不能全盘沦为以色列国家意志的附庸！ 在利益契合的领域我们坚定携手协作；在存在分歧的领域我们坦然保留不同意见；但我们的一切行动都必须以捍卫美国利益为唯一指针。这是构建理性务实外交政策的唯一正道。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Yeah. You know what the president has said, Jason, is obviously Israel has been an important partner when it comes to military technology, when it comes to intelligence sharing, but also sometimes the United States doesn't always agree with Israel. And I think that more than frankly any president in the last 40 years, he has shown a willingness uh to actually part ways with BB Netanyahu when he feels like the interests of the American people are different from the interests of of the government of Israel. And I find it a little ironic, Jason, that you have Democrats criticizing Donald Trump for his relationship with BB when Donald Trump is the one president of the last 40 years who's been willing to say, you know what, yeah, BB's a good partner, but also BB and I have a different opinion on this, or BB's wrong about this, or maybe BB's right about this from the perspective of Israel, but the American people need us to go in a different direction. So I I I just think that rooting this relationship like all relationships in America's interest is the way to actually have a rational conversation here because when you're talking about whether a given policy is in America's interest and you keep yourself laser focused on that, I think that's how you make sure that the American people know that you're fighting for them. But I also think that it allows us to actually rationally focus and force ourselves to have a conversation about when something that maybe sounded good or maybe has become a cliche or a slogan for the past 20 or 30 years. Well, maybe we have to do something different now. And I I think that that's how we have to approach not just this relationship but all relationships. By by the way, you you see a similar push back when the president makes the argument that he's made about NATO, which is yes, obviously a lot of important relationships, a lot of important partnerships in NATO, but that doesn't mean that we're going to completely make our European foreign policy subservient to NATO in the same way that we cannot let our Middle Eastern foreign policy be subservient to the state of Israel. We're going to work with people when we work with them. We're going to disagree when we disagree. And we're going to pursue America's interest. That's the only way to have a rational foreign policy.
### 内阁协作与2028大选传闻 **杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: 我知道查马斯还想争取提最后一个问题。但在他提问之前，请告诉我们：国务卿**马可·卢比奥**（Marco Rubio）目前履职情况如何？您如何评价他前两年的工作表现？
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: I know Trum wants to get one last question in here. Um, just before he does, uh, tell us, how's Marco Rubio doing in his job so far? Can you rate his performance in the first two years?
**J.D.万斯**: 他干得非常出色，伙计！我非常喜欢马可。 杰森，主流媒体最可笑的虚假叙事就是硬把我和马可描绘成极具竞争敌意、成天坐在一起盘算着如何在 **2028年总统大选** 中一决高下的对手。现在几点了？现在是下午 2点25分，我5分钟之后刚好要和马可通电话！ 所以查马斯必须赶快提他的最后一个问题，我得迅速回答，然后我和马可就要立刻去处理美国人民的正事了。马可是一个极其优秀的人，人品极佳，他的工作表现也无可挑剔。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: He's doing great, man. I love Marco. Jason, the the funniest media narrative is that somehow Marco and I are like hyper competitive and we sit around like thinking about, you know, how we're going to run for president against each other in 2028. Like I I literally What time is it right now? It's 2:25. I have a call with Marco in five minutes. So Chimat's got to ask his question first. I got to answer it quickly and then Marco and I have to go do the business of the American people. He's a great dude. He's a great human being. He's doing a great job, too.
### 中期选举决胜：常识治理 vs 激进狂热 **查马斯·帕里哈皮蒂亚**: 那么在节目尾声，鉴于极具决定性的**中期选举**即将来临——某一天的民调可能显示共和党将保住一切优势，而另一天的民调又宣称全美将掀起一场社会主义横扫的风暴，局势扑朔迷离。您能否给广大民众深入剖析一下基层一线正在发生什么？究竟需要向民众传递怎样的核心信息，才能帮助大家在11月做出明智而正确的抉择？
Original English **Chamath Palihapitiya**: So maybe maybe as we wrap, um there's a very consequential midterm coming up. I think uh a poll on one day will say that the Republicans are going to keep, you know, everything as is. the poll on the other day say it's going to be a socialist sweep of America. It's very complicated, but can you just give us some insight into what's actually happening on the ground and what is the message that needs to be delivered so that folks can uh come to the right conclusion November?
**J.D.万斯**: 我想我主要有两个核心信息要传递给美国人民： 第一，回顾过去18个月，我们切实做成了大量造福国民的实事。我们推行了**大规模减税政策**，彻底取消了对**加班费、社会保障金和日常小费**的征税！这些减税红利是实打实惠及美国广大中产阶级蓝领工人的，而不是仅仅流入华盛顿和纽约极少数特权精英的腰包。我们在边境管控和移民治理上取得了举世瞩目的非凡战果。我们大刀阔斧推行H-1B改革，坚定优先保障美国本土工人的就业权益。我们已经取得了辉煌的政绩，但未来依然任重道远。请千万不要重新把国家权力交还给当初制造这些灾难性问题的人手中！请再给我们几年的时间，让我们继续推进过去两年里开展的伟大事业。 第二，我想强调的是，即便你在某些个别具体政策上与我们存在分歧，但如今的反对党已经被彻底的疯狂与极端主义所吞噬！他们完全被一群企图掏空国家、意图将美利坚拱手让给非法移民和犯罪分子的人所绑架，他们甚至对此公开炫耀。 伙计们，在过去几年的政坛中我见识过太多荒唐事，但当我亲耳听到纽约一位正在竞选国会议员的人公然宣称“7月4日美国独立日是为了波多黎各和巴勒斯坦的解放”时，我心里想的是：这种精神错乱的人应该立刻被送进精神病院接受治疗，而不是被选进美国国会去制定国家法律！ 因此，我想对全体美国人民说：用你们手中的选票把这些激进分子彻底赶走！送他们去精神病院，绝不要送进国会！因为即便你并非百分之百赞同我们的每一项政策，但至少我们的出发点始终基于常识和美国国家利益；而他们完全是被左翼激进利益集团和狂热意识形态所驱动，如果把权力交到他们手里，他们必将给这个国家带来灭顶之灾。
Original English **J.D. Vance**: You know, I guess I have two basic messages there is a lot of good that we've done over the past 18 months. We cut taxes bigly. We cut taxes on overtime, social security, and tips. Those are tax cuts for middle American workers, not just for the elites in in Washington and New York City. Uh we've had an amazing success with the border with immigration. We've pursued H-1B reform that prioritizes American workers over foreign nationals. There's a lot of good that's been done, but there's a lot of work left to do. Don't give power to the people who cause the problems that we're fixing. give us another chance or give us another couple of years to continue to work on the amazing things that we've been doing for the past 2 years. And the second argument I'd make is even if you don't agree with us on every issue, the other party is consumed by craziness. They're consumed by people who want to steal everything, who want to give the country over to illegal aliens and criminals. They actively brag about about it. I mean, I've heard a lot of crazy stuff, guys, over the past, you know, few years in politics. But when I heard somebody running for Congress in New York say that July 4th was about the liberation of Puerto Rico and Palestine, I thought to myself, this person needs to be checked into a mental hospital hospital, not given a seat in Congress. So to the American people, I'd say send these people packing. Put them in the middle hospital. Do not put them in Congress. Because even if you don't agree with us on every policy issue, at least we're motivated by common sense and American interest, they're just motivated by left-wing interest groups and radicalism, and they're going to do a very bad job if we give them power.
**杰森·卡拉卡尼斯**: 好的，女士们先生们，再次感谢副总统 J.D.万斯！
Original English **Jason Calacanis**: All right, ladies and gentlemen, Vice President J.
**J.D.万斯**: 非常感谢大家，很高兴见到各位！
Original English **J.D. Vance**: Thank you all. Good to see you guys.