--- author: New York Times Podcasts date: '2026-07-21' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV5KFqKcys4 speaker: New York Times Podcasts tags: - olive-oil - food-storage - shopping-guide - culinary-tip title: 优质橄榄油选购指南与储存要点 summary: 节目讨论了橄榄油的挑选与储存要点。迈克尔·沙利文指出，热量、空气、光线和时间会导致油变质；选购时应认准特级初榨标识及清晰的采摘日期，并区分“某国产品”与“进口自”等标签用语。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: home-logistics area: life-family project: [] people: - Michael Sullivan companies_orgs: - Wirecutter products_models: - Bono Sicilia PGI Organic Sicilian Olive Oil - Bertolli Rich Taste - Graza media_books: - The Wirecutter Show status: evergreen --- 其首字母缩写是 HALT，但热量（heat）、空气（air）、光线（light）和时间（time）确实是会使油变质的因素。所以让它接触空气、
Original English Halt is the acronym for it, but heat, air, light, and time are the things that really degrade oil. So So exposing it to the air,
>> 光线，然后显然还有时间，就像你等待的时间越长，它就越有可能变哈喇。这算是一种很容易记住的方式，比如，“哦，我该怎么处理它？我该如何储存这款橄榄油？”这是一种很容易记住它的方式。
Original English >> the light, and then the time, obviously, like the longer you wait, the more likely it's going to go rancid. Those that's kind of an easy way to to remember like, oh, what should I be doing with this? How should I be storing this olive oil? That's an easy way to remember it.
>> 那些恰好也是让我们显老的东西，对吧？热量、空气、光线和时间。对，
Original English >> Those just happen to be the same things that make us look old, right? Heat, air, light, and time. Yeah,
>> 没错。是啊，我想这同样适用于我们。
Original English >> exactly. Yeah, I guess it applies to us, too.
>> 我是克里斯汀·塞雷特（Christine Sierette）。我是凯拉·布莱克韦尔（Kyra Blackwell）。
Original English >> I'm Christine Sierette. I'm Kyra Blackwell.
>> 我是罗西·加林（Rosie Garin）。你正在收听的是《Wirecutter 秀》（The Wirecutter Show）。
Original English >> I'm Rosie Garin. And you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.
大家好，我是克里斯汀。我顺便来说一声，今天的节目是一期重播，主题全都是关于寻找优质橄榄油。这是一次非常棒的访谈，而且非常契合夏季烹饪，所以我们想再次与大家分享。我们下周会带来一期新节目。在此期间，祝收听愉快。
Original English Hey there, it's Christine. I wanted to pop in and let you know that today's episode is a rerun all about finding great olive oil. It's such a great interview and so relevant for summer cooking, we wanted to share it with you again. We'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, enjoy.
### 厨房里的优质油脂 >> 今天我们要聊聊橄榄油。
Original English >> Today we're talking about olive oils.
>> 是的，我喜欢橄榄油。就是橄榄油。我最喜欢的油脂之一，特别是在夏天，尤其是淋在一些非常新鲜的蔬菜上。
Original English >> Yes, I love olive oil. It's olive oil. One of my favorite fats, especially in the summer, especially on like some really fresh veg.
>> 噢，是的。
Original English >> Oh yeah.
>> 是的。淋在熟透的西红柿上
Original English >> Yeah. on a super ripe tomato
>> 或者比如你自己做自制沙拉酱的时候。
Original English >> or like when you make your own homemade salad dressing.
>> 嗯嗯。
Original English >> Mhm.
>> 是的，那很不错。
Original English >> Yeah, that's good.
>> 我最近听到一位美食记者发表过这样一个独特见解，他说如果你要在杂货店买任何贵价东西，那应该买油或醋。
Original English >> I recently heard this hot take by a food journalist who said if you're going to splurge on anything at the grocery store, it should be oil or vinegar.
>> 我挺认同这一点的。我喜欢敢于尝试品尝不同的橄榄油。
Original English >> And I kind of subscribe to that. I like being adventurous with taste testing different olive oils.
>> 很有意思。我从没想过自己花钱最多的一件东西会是什么，比如像——我考虑衣橱时会这样想，比如永远是鞋子。必须买好鞋。但是……嗯，但是对，我能理解那种想法。
Original English >> That's interesting. I've never thought about the thing that I would spend the most on like what like I I think about that with a wardrobe like always shoes. Got to get the good shoes. But um but yeah, I I I I could see that.
>> 我有几样物品，是的。黄油。
Original English >> I have a couple of items that Yeah. butter.
>> 这些你用来烹饪的油脂类东西。
Original English >> These things that are the fats that you cook with.
>> 是的，我喜欢这个想法，但老实说，我每一次都宁愿把钱挥霍在蛋白质食物上。我更愿意把钱花在那上面。但我明白。
Original English >> Yeah, I like the idea, but honestly, I'm just going to splurge on like the protein every single time. I'd rather spend my money there. But I get it.
>> 嗯，鉴于是西红柿的旺季，橄榄油就是你在夏天想要的东西。我们觉得现在是个绝佳时机，可以和我们的作者迈克尔·沙利文（Michael Sullivan）聊聊我们的橄榄油评测，他之前也上过我们的节目。他很棒。他知识非常渊博。他今天会来和我们一起聊聊橄榄油，包括我们品尝过的那些、我们推荐的那些，但同时他也会好好教教我们如何选购橄榄油。所以，如果你在杂货店里挑选要买什么，我想听完这期节目后，你将能收获很多非常实用的建议，知道如何挑选到一瓶好油。是的。而且事实证明，辨别优质橄榄油的方法之一就是品尝它。我们也会做一点这样的尝试。没错。所以，我们要稍作休息。回来后，我们将与迈克尔畅聊。
Original English >> Well, given it is prime tomato season, olive oil is the thing that you want in the summertime. We thought this would be a great time to talk about our olive oil review with our writer, Michael Sullivan, who has been on the show before. He's awesome. He is just a wealth of knowledge. He is going to come on with us today and talk about olive oils, the ones we've tasted, the ones we recommend, but also he's going to give us a real schooling on how to shop for olive oil. So, if you're out there in the grocery store deciding what you're going to buy, I think you'll be able to walk away from this episode with a lot of really actionable tips on how to get a great bottle. Yeah. And it turns out one of the ways to identify good olive oil is to taste it. And we're going to do a little bit of that as well. That's right. So, we're going to take a quick break. When we're back, we'll chat with Michael.
### 对话迈克尔·沙利文：测试与问答 欢迎回来。现在和我们在一起的是迈克尔·沙利文。他是我们厨房团队的高级专职作者，为 Wirecutter 评测过大量的厨房用具。因此，在我们的橄榄油评测中，迈克尔调研了 40 多种油，测试了十几款。而且他以前还在一家橄榄油店工作过。真酷。
Original English Welcome back. With us now is Michael Sullivan. He's a senior staff writer on our kitchen team and he's reviewed a ton of kitchen gear for Wire Cutter. So, for our review of olive oils, Michael researched over 40 oils and tested over a dozen. And he used to work at an olive oil store. So, cool.
>> 迈克尔，欢迎回来。
Original English >> Michael, welcome back.
>> 感谢邀请我。
Original English >> Thank you for having me.
>> 除了你还能有谁更合适呢？
Original English >> Who better but you?
>> 是的，确实。今天能和你们聊这个我非常兴奋。迈克尔，先稍微描绘一下我们在试品厨房里的品尝过程大致是什么样子的，到目前为止我们大约有 10 位专职作者和编辑。每当你们进行品尝时，我总是很好奇。
Original English >> Yeah, absolutely. I'm really excited to talk about this with you today. Michael, just to lay a picture a little bit of what our tastings look like in our test kitchen, we have something about like 10 staff writers and editors at this point. And I'm always intrigued when you're doing a tasting.
>> 这就像是试品厨房里正在进行的一件非常严肃的事情。我看到有一群人围坐在桌子旁。他们很安静。他们面前摆着笔记。还有像小碗或者不管你们吃的是什么。我总是喜欢在里面没人的时候走进去窥探一下。我得承认，我会走进去看看冰箱，瞧瞧你们在测试什么。里面就像是一面黄油墙，或者你知道的，酸奶之类的。是的。所以这真的很有趣，你们做了大量的工作，我们稍后会聊一点关于这个的内容。但我们觉得如果在这期节目开头，让你测试一下我们的橄榄油知识，借此了解一下我们认知的底线，应该会很有趣。
Original English >> It's like this very serious thing that's going on in the test kitchen. I see like a group of people sitting around a table. They're quiet. They've got notes in front of them. There's like little bowls or whatever you guys are are eating. And I always like to go in and kind of peek in when nobody's in there. I'm going to admit it that I'll go in and look in the fridge and see what you guys are testing. And it's like a wall of butter or, you know, yogurt or whatever. Yeah. And so it's really fun and you guys do a lot of work and we're going to talk a little bit about that. But we thought it would be fun to start this episode by you testing our olive oil knowledge just to get kind of a baseline of what we know.
>> 太好了。好的。是的。所以我为你们准备了一些判断题。
Original English >> Great. Okay. Yes. So I came up with some true or false questions for you.
>> 好的。第一题。对还是错？橄榄油不会随时间越陈越好。
Original English >> Okay. First one. True or false? Olive oil doesn't get better with age.
>> 对。
Original English >> True.
>> 我认为是正确的。
Original English >> I think it's true.
>> 真的。是的。对还是错？意大利是最大的橄榄油进口国之一。对，对，对，
Original English >> True. Yeah. True or false? Italy is among the biggest importers of olive oil. True, true, true,
>> 对。是的。
Original English >> true. Yeah.
>> 天哪，我们知道的真多。
Original English >> Oh my gosh, we know so much.
>> 是的，那一题。我觉得那是一道陷阱题。
Original English >> Yeah, that one. I feel like that was a tricky one.
>> 嗯，好的。对还是错。把橄榄油放在炉灶旁并配上倒酒嘴储存是没问题的。
Original English >> Um, okay. True or false. It's fine destroy your olive oil near the stove with a pore spout.
>> 我要猜正确。
Original English >> I'm going to say true.
>> 噢，有分歧了。是的，
Original English >> Oh, it's mixed. Yeah,
>> 我要猜正确。
Original English >> I'm going to say true.
>> 好的，答案是错误。是的，你不能把它放在像热源附近。所以，你要让它远离热源，而且你需要一个密封良好的严实盖子。你不能让它暴露在空气中。
Original English >> Okay, it's false. Yeah, you don't want to keep it near like a heat source. So, you want to keep it away from heat and you want to a nice tight ceiling lid on it. You don't want to keep it open to the air.
>> 所以，你的意思是就放在炉灶旁边的那瓶其实不是个好主意？
Original English >> So, you're saying that bottle that's sitting right by the stove is like not a good idea?
>> 可能不是最好的方式。什么？
Original English >> Probably not the best way. What?
>> 放在那很有道理，因为你顺手就拿到了，但是
Original English >> It makes a lot of sense cuz you just reach for it, but
>> 你干什么都会用到它。
Original English >> you use it for everything.
>> 是的，没错。好的。最后一题。把橄榄油放在冰箱里储存最好。
Original English >> Yeah, exactly. Okay. And last one. It's best to store olive oil in the fridge.
>> 错误。
Original English >> False.
>> 错。是的。
Original English >> False. Yeah.
>> 好的。那题我没有回答，但是
Original English >> Okay. I didn't answer that one, but
>> 我只是想到了我认识的所有把橄榄油放在冰箱里的人。
Original English >> I'm just thinking of all the people I know who store their olive oil in the fridge.
>> 我从没听说过那种做法。
Original English >> I've never heard of that.
>> 可能像是嬉皮士那样
Original English >> It might be like hippie like
>> 它难道不会变得像椰子油那样凝固吗？是的，它确实会。
Original English >> doesn't get like congealed like coconut oil. Yeah, it does.
>> 这就是这就是为什么……是的。明白了。你不想那么做
Original English >> Which is which is why Yeah. Got it. You don't want to do that
>> 在
Original English >> on the
>> 嗯，我想说看来我们还有很多东西要学。让我们开始吧。
Original English >> Well, I I'd like to say I think we have some things to learn. Let's get into it.
>> 好的。
Original English >> Okay.
### 采收日期与品鉴规范 >> 是的。那么，迈克尔，首先你能告诉我们你是怎么测试橄榄油的吗？
Original English >> Yeah. So, Michael, first of all, can you tell us how you test olive oils?
>> 通常，对于我们的任何品尝测试，我们都会关注全国连锁杂货店里能买到的产品，因为我们希望人们能轻松买到它们。再者，我们还采取了明确的标准，只测试标有采收日期的瓶装油。所以，如果上面有采收日期，这真的是你能知道你的油有多新鲜的唯一保证。所有的瓶子都会标有采收日期吗？
Original English >> Typically, for like any of our taste test, we're looking at what's available in national chain grocery stores cuz we want people to easily find them. And then we also took a stance and only tested bottles with a harvest date. So, that's really the only guarantee that you know how fresh your oil is if it has the harvest date on it. Will all bottles have a harvest date on them?
>> 它们不会都有。所以那确实能帮你缩小选择范围。
Original English >> They will not. So that will really help you narrow down the selection.
>> 我们所说的采收日期，是指所有的橄榄被压榨的日期。是的。是的。
Original English >> And by harvest date, we mean the date that the all were crushed. Yeah. Yeah.
>> 有点像葡萄酒。
Original English >> Kind of like wine.
>> 嗯，有点像葡萄酒。稍有不同。是的。葡萄酒会存放一段时间。是的。是的。是的。对于橄榄，你希望尽快将它们压榨。是的。
Original English >> Well, sort of like wine. Little different. Yeah. Wine sits for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For olives, you want to get them crushed as soon as possible. Yeah.
>> 明白了。明白了。采收日期与最佳食用日期不同吗？
Original English >> Got it. Got it. Is the harvest date different from the best buy date?
>> 是的。最佳食用日期是随意的。而采收日期会确切告诉你那些橄榄是什么时候被压榨的。如果只有一个最佳食用日期，你完全不知道这油是什么时候装进那个瓶子里的，对吧？它可能是陈油，可能是新油，也可能是两者混合。所以那确实能告诉你这油有多新鲜，而且那是真正唯一能了解的途径。我的意思是，还有很多其他方面我们今天会聊到，但没错，那是一个重要指标。
Original English >> Yes. So the best buy date is arbitrary. So the harvest date will tell you when exactly those olives were crushed. If it's just a best buy date, you have absolutely no idea like when that oil was put in that bottle, right? Like it could be old oil, it could be new oil, it could be a mix of both. So that really tells you how fresh the oil is, and that's really the only way to know. I mean, there's a lot of other things that we'll talk about today, but yeah, that's a big one.
>> 明白了。
Original English >> Got it.
>> 我们没有纳入任何风味调味油。我们真的只想做纯橄榄油。然后我们寻找具有一定风味范围的油，以便你可以将它们用于各种烹饪用途。
Original English >> We didn't include any flavored oils. We really wanted to just do plain olive oil. And then we looked for, you know, oils that would have sort of a range of flavors so that, you know, you could use them for various cooking applications.
>> 那么当你们大家都在厨房的那个房间里一起品尝时，实际的测试过程是怎样的呢？
Original English >> And what is the actual testing process like when you are all in that room in the kitchen and you're you're tasting things together?
>> 是的，橄榄油有点……嗯，挺有意思的。我的意思是，我应该说明我们不是受过训练的专业橄榄油品鉴师。这些品鉴师要训练好几年，去单独识别油里的特定缺陷，那就是他们进行感官评级的方式。
Original English >> Yeah, olive oil is sort of um a funny one. I mean, I should mention that we're not trained professional olive oil tasters. These testers train for years isolating like specific defects in the oil and that's how they're like grading it for the sensory part of it.
>> 基本上就是行家里手。
Original English >> Connoisseurs basically.
而我们并不是那样。
Original English And so we're not that.
>> 所以我们仅仅是基于风味及其细微差别来品尝，但我们确实遵循了加州橄榄油委员会（California Olive Oil Council）的品鉴指南。嗯，所以我们用这些郁金香形状的蓝色小杯子，它们是深色的，这样你就看不到油的颜色，因为那并不是一个
Original English >> So we're we're tasting just, you know, based on like flavor and the nuances of that, but we did follow the California Olive Oil Council's guidelines for tasting. Um, so we use these little blue cups that are tulip shaped and they're dark colored so that you don't see the color of the oil cuz that's not an
品质的指标。所以它相当于遮蔽了颜色，让你不受其影响。
Original English indication of quality. So it sort of masks the color so you're not influenced by that.
>> 这些看起来像迷你……像筛子（sifters）？你能看……闻香杯（sniffers）吗？
Original English >> These look like mini like sifters. Can you look sniffers?
>> 对，它们看起来像小闻香杯。
Original English >> Yeah. They look like little sniffers.
>> 就像喝特别高档的威士忌那样，
Original English >> Like when you have a really fancy whiskey,
>> 一小杯白兰地。
Original English >> a little brandy.
>> 噢，对。是的，是的。
Original English >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> 但是郁金香杯的形状有助于在你闻的时候聚拢香气。所以我们在测试时就会用这些，这也是专业品鉴师会使用的器具。然后我们隐去了所有品牌，就像我们每次品鉴测试所做的那样。接着我们会去评估气味，比如果香、苦味、辛辣感，就像你咽下去时喉咙深处感受到的那种胡椒般的冲击感。很好地表明了油的新鲜程度。
Original English >> But the tulip shape helps to focus the aroma when you're smelling it. So, we use we use these when we test, which is this is what professional tasters would also use. And then we concealed all the brands as we always do with our taste tests. And then we're evaluating like the smell, you know, the fruiness, the bitterness, the pungency, like how peppery that kick you get in the back of your throat when you swallow. good indication of of how fresh the oil is.
>> 所以，你们只是直接啜饮油？而不是像用面包蘸着吃之类的。直接吸溜着尝。
Original English >> So, are you just sipping the oil? You're not like dipping bread into it or something. Slurping it.
>> 对。因为你想让它在你的味蕾上游走，去感受油。在我们……之后，我们确实也会用面包来测试。
Original English >> Yeah. Because you want to sort of move it across your palette and the the oil. We also do test it with bread after we
>> 在你们吸溜着品尝之后。
Original English >> after you slurp it.
>> 在我们吸溜着品尝之后。对。
Original English >> After we've slurped it. Yeah.
>> 嗯，要知道，我们总是会回过头再用面包来品尝一次这些油。 虽然让我妻子很无奈，但我非常喜欢在杂货店的橄榄油区花很长时间闲逛。我总是不太确定买一瓶时应该看些什么。所以，你能跟我们讲讲去挑一瓶橄榄油时应该看什么吗？
Original English >> Um, you know, we always go back and taste the oils again with bread. So much to my wife's sugarrin, I love spending a lot of time in the olive oil section at the grocery store. I'm never quite sure what I should look for on a bottle. So, can you walk us through what you should look for when you're going to grab a bottle of olive oil?
### 挑选与储存橄榄油 >> 没问题。是的。我的意思是，当你站在店里，心里想着“天哪，这么多瓶子”，确实会觉得不知所措。你能立刻做的最简单的事情之一，就是避开透明玻璃瓶。紫外线会使油变质，这是通过光氧化作用发生的。缩写是 HALT，也就是热量（heat）、空气（air）、光照（light）和时间（time），这些是真正让油劣化的因素。所以把它暴露在空气、光照中，然后显然还有时间，比如你放得越久，它越可能变哈喇。这是……这算是一个容易记住的方法，比如“噢，我应该怎么对待它？我应该怎么储存这种橄榄油？”这是一个很容易记住它的方法。
Original English >> Sure. Yeah. I mean, it is very overwhelming when you're standing in the store and you're like, "Oh my god, all these bottles." One of the easiest things you can do right away is avoid clear glass bottles. the UV rays will degrade the oil and that's through photo oxidation. So it's halt is the acronym for it but heat, air, light and time are the things that really degrade oil. So exposing it to the air, the light and then the time obviously like the longer you wait the more likely it's going to go rancid. Those that's kind of an easy way to to remember like oh what should I be doing with this? How should be storing this olive oil? That's an easy way to remember it.
>> 这些碰巧也就是让我们变老的东西，对吧？热量、空气、光照和时间。
Original English >> Those just happen to be the same things that make us look old, right? Heat, air, light, and time.
>> 是的，没错。是的，我想这同样适用于我们。 所以透明瓶子，你就是不知道它是怎么被储存的。你不知道它被储存在哪里、暴露在光线下多久了。所以你冒的风险就是，在你打开它时它可能已经氧化了。所以这是一个很容易避开的雷区。
Original English >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, I guess it applies to us, too. So, a clear bottle, you just don't know how that was stored. You don't know where it was stored, how long it's been exposed to light. So, it's just you risk it being already oxidated by the time you open it. So, that's an easy one to avoid.
>> 深色瓶子。
Original English >> Dark bottle.
### 特级初榨与标准监管 >> 所以你要找深色的马口铁罐，或者深绿色瓶子、深色玻璃瓶。然后我想大多数人都知道要找特级初榨橄榄油（extra virgin olive oil），但我不知道是否每个人都真正清楚那意味着什么。其实这本该出成一道判断题的，不过……
Original English >> So, you want a dark a tin or a dark green bottle, dark glass. And then I think most people know to look for extra virgin olive oil, but I don't know that everyone really knows what that means. Actually, that should have been a true or false question, but
>> 我还没做到那题。
Original English >> I haven't gotten that one.
>> 我明白了。那我讲讲它。它的意思是油已经通过了实验室检测和品鉴测试，就像我说的那些专业品鉴师，他们要确保它没有任何缺陷，而且在压榨过程中不能对它施加过高的热量，并且禁止使用任何种类的溶剂或化学品来萃取这种油。所以它是最高等级的。但这带有一些附加限制，我想如果你耐心听我讲一分钟，我可以稍微深入聊聊这个。
Original English >> I see. I talk about it. So what it means is that the oil has been lab and taste tested like I was saying those professional tasters and they're making sure that it's free of any defects and also it can't have any excessive heat applied to it during the extraction and the use of any sort of solvents or chemicals to extract that oil are prohibited. So it's the highest grade. This comes with some caveats and and I think if if you bear with me for a minute I can kind of like dig into this for a minute.
>> 太好了。所以关于橄榄油，并没有全国或国际公认的统一标准。美国农业部（USDA）有他们自己的指导准则，但对生产商来说那是自愿遵守的，这意味着它并不是强制性的。因此，一种从其他国家运来、在边境进入美国的油，并没有人在做检查，比如随机抽检以确保它确实如标签所言、那个等级确实名副其实，对吧？加州有自己的法律。嗯，是的。 加州食品农业部（CDFA）有一些相当严格的法律。事实上，它们比美国农业部的标准还要稍微严格一些。特级初榨油的酸度必须更低。它们会接受 CDFA 的随机抽检。所以橄榄油生产商那里会有一个随机人员上门，他们会去检测油，以确保它确实如其所标榜的那样。但加州生产的油大概只占全美橄榄油的 5% 左右。其余全部是进口的。所以有大量从其他地方运进来的油。因此，尽管他们的准则非常严格，但涵盖的油并不算多。
Original English >> Love it. So there's no national or international agreed upon standard for olive oil. So the USDA has their own guidelines, but they're voluntary for producers, which means it's not mandatory. So an oil that's coming in from another country that's coming into the United States at the border, there's no one checking it to be like, oh, you know, randomly checking it to make sure that it is indeed what it says on the label, that grade is what what it is, right? California has its own laws. Um, yes. So, the California Department of Agriculture, CDFA, they have some pretty strict laws. Actually, they're slightly stricter than the USDA. The acidity level has to be lower for the oils that are extravirgin. They're randomly tested by the CDFA. So, the producer of olive oil is going to have a random person come and show up and they're going to test the oil to make sure that is indeed what it says it is. But California only makes something like 5% of the oil in the US. The rest is all imported. So it's like a huge amount of oil that's coming in from elsewhere. So while their guidelines are really strict, it's not that much oil.
>> 所以这是针对在加州生产的橄榄油。
Original English >> So this is for olive oil that's made in California.
>> 是的。具体是针对年产量达到 5,000 加仑或以上的生产商。
Original English >> Yes. And specifically for producers that make 5,000 gallons of oil or more.
>> 哇。好的。
Original English >> Wow. Okay.
>> 对。然后当我们谈到欧洲的油时，他们有 IOC，即国际橄榄理事会（International Olive Council），他们是一个政府间组织，为欧洲所有这些不同的国家制定指导准则，对吧。欧盟所有国家都是 IOC 的成员，但他们并不负责执行橄榄油的法规。那取决于身为 IOC 成员的各个国家本身，对吧？那是针对在欧洲销售的所有油品。所以它们经过了品鉴测试和实验室检测。但由于美国不是 IOC 的成员，所以其实没有什么动力去确保最好的油运往我们这边。
Original English >> Yeah. Then when we're talking about oils in Europe, they have the IOC, the International Olive Council, and they are an intergovernmental organization and setting the guidelines kind of for all these different countries, right, in in Europe. And all of the European Union countries are are part of the IOC, but they are not enforcing the laws for the olive oil. That's up to each of the countries that is a member of the IOC, right? And that's for all of the oils that are sold in Europe. So they're taste tested and they're lab tested. But because the US is not a member of the IOC, there's not really an incentive to like make sure that the best oils are coming our way.
>> 所以他们可以出口类似下脚料（drugs）的东西。
Original English >> So they can export like the drugs.
>> 是的，他们把破烂货发给我们。
Original English >> Yeah. They're sending us their junk.
>> 是啊。按理论来说不应该，他们不应该这样做，对吧？但我们怎么会知道呢？
Original English >> Yeah. I mean, in theory, no. They should not be, right? But how do we know?
>> 我们怎么可能知道呢？确实。
Original English >> How would we know? Yeah.
### 纯度与品质：感官辨识 >> 没错。现在，我应该提一下，比如 FDA 曾经做过随机抽检。他们大约在 10 年前做过。当时他们在华盛顿特区周边地区，从杂货店里拿了一批瓶装油送去进行实验室检测。嗯，他们发现掺假率很低，也就是说这些油并没有掺入种子油或其他类型的油。
Original English >> Right. Now, I should mention like the FDA has done random testing. they did about 10 years ago. They were in the DC area and they they grabbed a bunch of bottles of oil from grocery stores and had them lab tested. Um, and they found that adulteration was low, meaning the oils were not cut with seed oils or other other types of oil.
>> 好吧？
Original English >> Okay?
>> 他们没有做品鉴测试。所以，那些油在标签上可能依然写着特级初榨，但实际上已经不是特级初榨了，因为比方说运到这边时环境太热，在途中变质了，但标签上仍然写着特级初榨。可是随后你把它买回家使用，它就不再名副其实了。这是一个纯度与品质的问题。之所以既要做实验室检测又要做品鉴测试，是因为实验室检测测出的是酸度水平，而品鉴测试测出的是你在实验室里测不出的所有东西，比如任何缺陷。“噢，闻起来像脏运动服”，或者带有什么……要知道，它是咸菜味（briney）或者闻起来发蜡质感。比如他们能捕捉到你在检测中无法确定的所有缺陷。所以这两项是配合着进行的。出于这个原因，
Original English >> They did not do a taste test. So, the oils could still be labeled extra virgin, but not be extra virgin cuz let's say when it got shipped over here, it was way too hot and it spoiled on the way, but it still says extra virgin on the label. but then you bring it home and you use it and it's no longer what it says it is. It's a purity versus quality issue. The reason that you do a lab test and a taste test is because the lab test is picking up the acidity level and then the taste test is picking up all the things you couldn't pick up in a lab like any defects. Oh, it smells like dirty gym clothes or it has, you know, it's it's briney or it smells like it's waxy. Like they're they're picking up all the the the flaws that you wouldn't be able to determine in a test. So, they're done in tandem. For that reason,
>> 如果你在货架上看到特级初榨橄榄油，你的意思是它很可能是以特定方式加工的，比如低温处理。嗯，它做过了实验室检测，
Original English >> if you see extra virgin olive oil on the shelf, what you're saying is that it likely has been processed in a certain way with like low heat. Um, it's been lab tested,
>> 但你在超市货架上看到那瓶油时，你可能并不知道它的品质如何。对。
Original English >> but you may not know the quality of that oil on the shelf that you're seeing in the supermarket. Right.
>> 没错。这就是为什么我认为亲自品尝它是如此重要。而让人感到沮丧的是，人们会说：“好吧，有什么可操作的建议呢？”比如“你该怎么做？”尝一下油，确保它没有变哈。如果是哈喇的，那么你可以把它拿回零售店并表示：“这个哈喇了。”他们会给你退款或退换积分，因为你实在不应该花那么多钱。我是说，橄榄油很贵。所以如果它不符合标签上的描述，你就不应该付那么多钱。
Original English >> Right. Which is why I think tasting it is so important. And what's frustrating about that, people are like, "Well, what's the actionable advice?" Like, "What do you do?" Tasting the oil to make sure that it's not rancid. And if it is, then you can take it back to the retailer and be like, "This is rancid." And they'll give you a refund or a store credit cuz you really shouldn't be paying all that money. I mean, ive oil is expensive. So, you shouldn't be paying all that money if it's not what it says it is on the label.
>> 什么是哈喇的油。你会怎么形容哈喇油的味道？
Original English >> Is rancid oil. How would you describe the flavor of rancid oil?
>> 对我来说，它最常闻起来像一盒绘儿乐（Crayola）蜡笔。它闻起来会有蜡质感。它会带有一种哈喇坚果的气味和味道。它也可能像是微发酵的味道。有时可能带有一种咸卤味或偏酸的特质，但我发现对我个人而言，就像我以前在橄榄油店工作时那样，它更多的是带有那种蜡质的特性。老化的油也会有点附着在你的口腔里。它会粘在你的口腔壁上，感觉有点恶心。嗯，但是新鲜的油实际上相当清爽，我认为这有点出人意料。我想大多数人可能会觉得：“你这是在喝脂肪。”但实际上当你咽下去的时候，它是一种非常提神、清爽的感觉，没有那种相同的
Original English >> So, most often to me, it smells like a box of Crayola crayons. It will smell waxy. It'll have just sort of a stale nut smell to it and flavor. It could also be like slightly fermented. Might have like a briny or like sour kind of quality to it sometimes, but I find it's for me anyway, it's like more often like when I worked in olive oil store, it was more that it had that waxy quality. An old oil will also sort of cling to your mouth. It'll stick to the walls of your mouth and it's kind of it's gross. Um, but like a fresh oil is actually like quite clean, which is kind of surprising I think. I think most people be like, "You're drinking fat." But it actually when you swallow it is like a very like kind of refreshing like clean doesn't have that same
当你品尝它时会产生影响。所以
Original English effect when when you taste it. So
>> 等我们品尝这个的时候就知道了。
Original English >> we'll see about that when we taste
>> 这个。
Original English >> this.
>> 在看采摘日期的时候，有没有一个你推荐的时间范围？
Original English >> When you're looking at the harvest date, is there a time period that you would recommend?
>> 那么
Original English >> So
>> 那个时间窗口是多久？
Original English >> what's the window?
>> 对。通常在北半球是秋冬采摘，然后在南半球就是春夏季节。所以你要找的是相对于你当前所处时间的上一个采摘日期。
Original English >> Yeah. So generally in the northern hemisphere it's the fall and winter harvest and then the southern hemisphere it'll be spring and summer. So you're looking for the previous harvest date from whatever time you're in.
>> 如果超过了那个时间，比如说是两个季度之前的呢？那算不算太久了？
Original English >> And if it goes beyond that, maybe it's from two seasons ago. Is that too far back?
>> 一个不错的经验法则是，你要在采摘日期后 2 年内把它用完。然后一旦打开了，你就要尽量在 2 到 3 个月内用完。所以我知道大家庭可以买那种 3 升的大听装，他们可以在 2 到 3 个月内用完，那挺好的。但如果你做不到，就别买这些大瓶装的，如果你没办法用完的话，你懂的。
Original English >> You want to use it up within 2 years of the harvest date is a good rule of thumb. And then once you open it, you want to try to use it up within 2 to 3 months. So I know big families can buy those big 3 L tins and they can use it up in 2 to 3 months and that's great. But if you can't do that, like don't be buying these giant bottles if you can't use it up within, you know.
>> 真的吗？嗯，因为要记住，橄榄油并不会随着时间陈化而变好。
Original English >> Really? Well, because remember, olive oil does not get better with age.
>> 是的，我想确实如此。但如果是成批大批量买，而且不打开的话，它还是不会……
Original English >> Yeah, I guess that's true. But if you buy in bulk and you don't open them, it's still like not
>> 嗯，只要你在那类两年的时间窗口内就行。是的。是的。但一般来说，额，如果你一旦打开后无法在那个时间窗口内用完，就买小一点的。
Original English >> Well, as long as you're in that sort of that 2-year window. Yeah. Yeah. But generally, um, buy smaller if you can't use it up within that window once you open it.
### 产地与单一体配比 >> 那么，关键问题来了。原产国到底有多重要？我觉得有好多争论，比如意大利是最好的，希腊是最好的，西班牙是最好的。我的意思是，情况是那样划分的吗，还是说这其实根本无所谓？我不太喜欢根据某个产区来进行区别对待。我真的很鼓励大家去尝试来自各地的各种橄榄油，看看自己喜欢什么。它在很多方面都像葡萄酒。你懂的，它不会像葡萄酒那样陈年，但它有……里面有非常多细微的差别和风味，而且有非常多可以用来制作的橄榄品种，它们存在于某些产区，而不是另一些产区。因此，把你自己限制在比如某一个产区，我认为是在亏待自己。我觉得这其实很有意思。而且因为它是厨房常备品，像你一直在用橄榄油，或者至少我一直在用，所以随便买点什么去尝试不同的东西并看看你喜欢什么真的很简单。最终你会差不多弄明白，比如，“噢，我真的很喜欢这种类型的油”，或者，“你懂的，我喜欢那种非常浓郁、带有青草味和胡椒辛香的”，或者也许你更喜欢带果香一点、稍微柔和一些并带有微妙辛辣味的。因此，通过品尝其中一堆，你就会发现自己喜欢什么。抛开国家不谈，你真正要在标签上注意的重要事项是，它应该写明是无论哪个国家的“某国产品”（product of），因为那意味着橄榄油是来自那个国家的，对吧？如果它写的是“进口自”（imported from）或“装瓶于”（packed in），那仅仅意味着油是在那里装瓶的，对吧？所以，你看前面那个对错题，
Original English >> So, here's the big question. How much does country of origin matter? I feel like there's so much debate like Italy is the best, Greece is the best, Spanish is the best. I mean, is does it break down like that or does it really even matter? I don't like to discriminate based on like a region. I really encourage people to try just all kinds of olive oil from all over and see what they like. It's like wine in a lot of ways. You know, it doesn't age like wine, but it has there are so many nuances and flavors and there's so many cultivars of olives that can be made and they are in certain regions versus others. And so to limit yourself to like one region, I think is doing yourself a disservice. I think it's really fun. And because it's it's such a pantry staple, like you're using olive oil, or at least I am, all the time, that it's really easy to just buy whatever and try different stuff and um see what you like. And eventually you'll kind of figure out like, oh, I really like this type of oil or, you know, I like it really bold and grassy and peppery, or maybe you like it more like fruity and a little more mellow with a subtle pepperiness. So, you'll sort of by tasting a bunch of them, you'll discover what you like. The important thing, country aside, you really want to look for on the label, it should say product of whatever the country is because that means that the the olive oil is from that country, right? If it says imported from or packed in, that just means that the oil was bottled there, right? And so, you know how earlier the true or false question,
>> 意大利是最大的进口国之一，那是因为他们同时也出口它，但它是在意大利装瓶的，可它上面会写进口自意大利。但是如果你看一下背标，它上面应该会说明橄榄究竟是来自哪里的。橄榄产自别的地方并不是坏事，但我认为这就像……这只是一种营销话术。去尽量确保你买到的是所谓的“单一产地”——即所有橄榄都来自一个地方——到底有什么好处吗？或者你对调配油有什么感觉？因为我见过，你知道的，产自葡萄牙加上……
Original English >> Italy is one of the biggest importers, that's because they're also exporting it, but it's bottled in Italy, but it'll say imported from Italy. But if you look on the back of the it should say like where the olives are actually from. It's not bad that the olives are from this other place, but I think it's just like it's a little bit of like marketing saying. Is there any benefit of trying to assure that you're getting something that's quote unquote single origin like where all of the olives are from one place or what's your what's your feeling about blends like cuz I've seen you know olive oil from Portugal plus
>> 对，意大利之类的。
Original English >> yeah Italy or something like that
>> 我觉得，关于混合调配油，我认为明确我们所讨论的内容很重要。你可以是有两种来自两个不同庄园的油的调配，但你也可以有一种调配油，里面的油真的是来自世界各地，比如五六个不同的国家。那些往往更便宜。我们说的是像一些大超市品牌就会这么做。他们把来自世界各地的油混合在一起。而且你知道，你根本就不知道那些油在什么地方、什么时候放置了多久。我的意思是，这就是为什么采摘日期如此重要，对吧？尤其是当你面对所有这些来自各地的油的时候。
Original English >> I think so blends is it's important I think to kind of define what we're talking about so you could have a blend of two oils from two different estates but you could also have a blend of oils from literally all over the world that are like five or six different countries. Those are often cheaper. We're talking about like some of the big grocery store brands do this. They're combining oils from all over the world. And you know, you just don't know how long those oils were sitting, where, when. I mean, that's why the harvest day is so important, right? Especially when you have all these oils from all over.
>> 嗯，现在我觉得我对待自己的橄榄油似乎做错了很多事情。不过总而言之，大体上如果人们想要风味最足、最丰富复杂的那种油，就应该挑选特级初榨橄榄油。他们要看采摘日期，而且应该在 2 年以内。你要在采摘后 2 年内食用完。
Original English >> Well, now I feel like I have been doing a lot of things wrong with my olive oil. But just just to recap, by and large, people should be looking for extra virgin olive oil if they want the most flavorful, the most like kind of complex oil. They want to be looking for that harvest date, and it should be within 2 years. You want to consume it within 2 years of harvest.
>> 你希望它装在深色瓶子或者听罐里，呈现清亮的油状，
Original English >> You want it to be a clear oil in a dark bottle or in a can,
>> 对吧？
Original English >> right?
### 储存与容器 >> 我们先插播一段简短的休息，等我们回来后，我们将详细讨论你应该如何储存你的橄榄油，并且我们会进行品尝测试。此外，我们还会从迈克尔那里获得一些在市面上挑选优质橄榄油的独家秘诀。马上回来。 欢迎回来。我们正与迈克尔·沙利文（Michael Sullivan）在一起，全面畅聊橄榄油。我们已经讨论了很多关于在超市货架购物时应该注意的基本要点。但现在我们想知道，迈克尔，你认为大多数人在家里储存橄榄油时，哪些地方做错了？
Original English >> We're going to take a quick break and then when we're back, we're going to talk through how you should be storing your olive oil and we're going to do a taste test. Plus, we'll get some of Michael's best secrets for finding a great olive oil out in the wild. Be right back. Welcome back. We're here with Michael Sullivan and we're talking all about olive oil. And we'd covered a lot of the basics for what you should be looking for when you're shopping in the aisles. But now we want to know, Michael, what you think most people are doing wrong when it comes to storing their olive oil at home?
>> 是的。我认为最常见的问题就是把橄榄油直接放在炉灶旁边储存，就因为那个热度。就像你想想看，对于特级初榨，在生产过程中你不希望对它施加过多的热量，对吧？那么直接把它放在炉灶旁边，某种程度上就违背了那整个初衷。而且理想情况下他们那么努力地……额
Original English >> Yeah. I think the most common issue is storing the olive oil right next to the stove just cuz that heat like when you think about like oh we for extra virgin you don't want excessive heat applied to it during production, right? So then to just put it right next to the stove sort of defeats that whole purpose. and they worked so hard ideally to um
>> 对于在家收听的各位，迈克尔正在意味深长地注视着克里斯汀和凯拉。
Original English >> for those of you at home, Michael is making meaningful eye contact with Christine and Kyra.
>> 我供认不讳。我把我的油放在一个透明瓶子里，旁边放个勺子，就在……
Original English >> I am guilty as charged. I I keep mine in a clear bottle with a spoon next to the
>> 行吧。我想我会改的。
Original English >> fine. I'll change, I guess.
>> 额，而且，你还要尽量避免把油分装在比如透明玻璃瓶或某种玻璃水瓶里。我知道。而且我有一个在房产拍卖会上淘到的漂亮瓶子，我差不多就像是觉得“看来我只能看着你了。我不知道拿你怎么办”。不过是的，正如我们所说，深色玻璃或马口铁罐是最好的。理想情况下，带一个密封严实的盖子。避免使用倾倒嘴。我的意思是，你知道，餐馆会敞开放着，但是想想他们消耗油的速度有多快。那完全不是问题。而且最好是存放在像阴暗的橱柜或储藏室里，远离热源和光线。
Original English >> Um but also, you want to try to avoid decanting the oil like in a clear glass bottle or some sort of car. I know. And I have a beautiful one that I found at an estate sale and I'm just sort of like I guess I just look at you. I don't know what I do with you. But yeah, the like we were saying, dark glass or tin is best. Ideally, a tight ceiling lid. Avoid pore spouts. I mean, like you know, restaurants will have them in open, but they're think about how quickly they're going through that oil. It's like not an issue. And it's best to store it in like a dark cupboard or pantry like away from heat and light.
>> 嗯。所以，不要直接放在炉灶正上方。明白了。
Original English >> Mhm. So, not directly above your stove. Got it.
>> 对。对。 那塑料包装呢？我的意思是，甚至我们推荐的瓶装之一……
Original English >> Yeah. Yeah. And what about plastic? I mean, even one of the bottles that we recommend,
>> Graza。对，
Original English >> Graza. Yeah,
>> 那个 Graza。我一直在杂货店里看到它。
Original English >> the Graza. I see it in grocery stores all the time.
>> 还有 Beri 也是。是的，
Original English >> Beri, too. Yeah,
>> 老实说，它看起来真挺可爱的。但它是装在绿色塑料瓶里的。那又是怎么回事呢？
Original English >> it looks really cute, honestly. But it's in a green plastic bottle. What's the deal with that?
>> 是的。所以，你知道，我采访过的专家们，他们绝大多数都表示不应该把它装在塑料里。而且我认为他们指的是这一事实：有些塑料是半渗透性的。因此就会有氧气进入的风险。所以他们真的建议坚持选用玻璃和铁罐。你知道，我认为这很难办，因为杂货店里很多价格合理的油，其中一些就是装在塑料瓶里的。因此，我们把它们列入了我们的推荐阵容，因为我们就是觉得需要把其中一些价格合理的油纳入进来。你知道，我觉得尽快用完它们大概是最好的建议。 我们可以花一点时间讨论一下为什么不应该把橄榄油冷藏吗？我是伴着冰箱里的一瓶橄榄油长大的。我不喜欢它结块变稠的样子，但我本来以为把橄榄油放在冰箱里会延长它的寿命，并防止受热，因为你知道受热可能会加速变质哈喇。所以，为什么不把它放在冰箱里呢？
Original English >> Yeah. So, you know, the experts that I spoke to, they overwhelmingly say that it should not be put in plastic. And I think they're pointing to the fact that it, you know, some plastics are semi-p permeable. So, then there's the risk of oxygen getting in. So they really say to stick to glass and tin. You know, I think it's hard because so many of the reasonably priced oils in the grocery store, some of them are in plastic. And so like we included them in our lineup because we just felt like we needed to, you know, include some of these reasonably priced oils. You know, I think just using them up quickly is is probably best advice. Can we spend a beat talking about why you're not supposed to refrigerate your olive oil? I grew up with a bottle of olive oil in the refrigerator. I don't like how it gets chunky, but I would assume that keeping it in the refrigerator would extend the life of the olive oil and keep it from the heat that could, you know, accelerate it going rancid. So, why not keep it in the refrigerator?
>> 首先，这很不实用，因为那样你……对，就像你说的，你面对的是这种凝固的油。所以当你要用它的时候，你会觉得，“好吧，现在我得等它融化，重新变回液体。”有些人还会拿到热水下去冲，这……
Original English >> For one thing, it's it's impractical because then you Yeah, like you're saying, you have this congealed oil. So when you go to use it, you're like, "Okay, now I'm waiting for this to thaw and come back to being liquid again." And some people run under hot water, which
>> 大概不是个好主意。而且，把它从冰箱里拿进拿出可能会产生冷凝水，正如你所知，有些专家表示那显然对它也是有害的。所以，你只需要把它放在室温下的橱柜里就行了。
Original English >> probably not a good idea. Also, the the taking it in and out of the fridge can create condensation, which, you know, some experts were saying that that's also obviously bad for it. So, you just want to keep it in a cupboard at room temperature.
放冰箱那事儿，别费那劲了。很多年前还流传着一种错误说法，说什么如果你把橄榄油放进冰箱，它凝结或者凝固了，那就是品质好的体现。不是的，这根本不是品质的体现，因为每种油的密度都不一样，它们凝固的温度也不同，只有实验室检测和品鉴测试才能判定油的品质。
Original English The fridge thing, don't bother. There was also some misinformation circulating many years ago that was like if you put your olive oil in the fridge and it congeals or it solidifies that's an indication of quality and it's no it's not an indication of quality cuz all you know each oil will have a different density and they're going to they're going to solidify at different temperatures and only a lab test and a taste test can determine the quality of the oil.
>> 在测试过程中，你发现的最令人惊讶的事情是什么？
Original English >> What's the most surprising thing that you found during your testing?
你知道，我觉得当我们决定只纳入标注了采收日期的油时，我原本以为超市里能符合条件的会比实际更少。而且一些大品牌，比如 Bertolli 就是其中之一，确实让我非常惊讶。
Original English You know, I think when we made the decision to only include oils that have a harvest date, I thought there would be fewer than there actually were at the grocery store. And some of the big brands like Broli is one of them that I was actually really surprised by.
>> 它也是我们选中的推荐款之一，对吧？
Original English >> Which is one of our picks, right?
>> 是我们选中的推荐款之一。是的。
Original English >> Which is one of our picks. Yeah.
>> 这确实让我很意外。比如我们尝了所有这些更精致的油，也就是我认为更贵、更精致的油，但 Bertolli 在跟这些油的对比中表现得很出色，对吧？
Original English >> I mean I that's surprising to me. Like we tasted all these sort of fancier oils, what I would consider more expensive, fancier oils, but bari did well against these other oils, right?
>> 是的，确实如此。挺让人惊喜的，你知道，它有一种浓烈、辛辣、非常浓郁的青草风味，很吸引人。
Original English >> Yeah, it did. which was surprising, you know, but it has that bold, peppery, really grassy flavor to it, which was appealing.
### 超市选购技巧与盲品测试 >> 那我想知道，如果有人在超市里，买不到我们指南里推荐的那些油，他们想买一瓶好油，有什么挑选好油的小技巧吗？
Original English >> So, I want to know if someone is in a grocery store, they don't have access to the oils that we recommend in our guide, they want to buy a nice oil, um, what are some tips for finding something good?
如果你在像 Whole Foods 这样的超市或者其他地方，你往往不要看视线齐平的位置，高处和低处往往是摆放很多高价油的地方，其实任何商品都是如此。你会注意到，如果你去沃尔玛或者其他任何地方，所有的自有品牌商品都在视线平视的高度。那被称为“黄金陈列区”（strike zone），完全是出于针对消费者的策略化摆放。橄榄油也是同理。你往往能在最底层找到一些更有意思的油，而不是那些在所有连锁店都能见到的主流品牌。
Original English If you're in a grocery store like like Whole Foods or somewhere like you often want to look not at eye level, so like above and below is where a lot of higher price oils will be or any product really for that matter. Like a lot of you'll notice if you go to like Walmart or wherever like all the white label products are all eye level. That's called the strike zone and it's all strategically placed for the consumer. So same applies to olive oil. You'll often find like at the bottom, you know, some some more interesting oils, not like the major brands that are at all the chains.
>> 这就是为什么我家刚学会走路的小孩总是在底层挑油。
Original English >> That's why my toddlers are always picking the oil.
>> 是啊，他们的品味像喝香槟一样高级。
Original English >> Yes, they have champagne taste.
>> 我懂。
Original English >> I know.
>> 不过话说回来，那确实是个好办法。你也可以在网上去找。如果你附近没有特色食品店——如果你住的地方有的话，很多特色食品店的选择可能会更好一些。如果你生活的地区去不了那样的店，你可以上网做一点点功课。一个在网上非常透明的生产商，比如公开展示他们的实验室检测结果。哇，那说明他们相当坦诚，什么都没藏着掖着，对吧？所以我觉得这能很好地体现生产商的品质。
Original English >> But yeah, that's like a good thing. You can also look online, too. If you if you don't have a specialty food store, a lot of specialty food stores, if you have one in your area, will have maybe a better selection. If you live in an area where you don't have access to stores like that, you could go online and just do a little bit of research. a producer that's very transparent online and like shares their lab results. Wow, that's like a pretty they're not hiding anything, right? So, I think that's a good indication of of a quality producer.
>> 你最喜欢的邮购品牌是哪个？给我们透露点内幕消息。
Original English >> What's your favorite mail order brand? Give us the inside scoop.
>> 我最喜欢的品牌之一是 Fat Gold，他们其实设在加州。价格适中，品质一直很稳定，风味十足又很醇厚，这是我的最爱之一，我们今天其实就会尝到一些。所以我非常兴奋。
Original English >> So, one of my favorites is Fat Gold and they're actually based in California. They're moderately priced. It's just like reliably good and it's so flavorful and robust and I just it's one of my faves and we'll actually be trying some today. So, I'm very excited.
>> 好的，Michael，你带来了一些油让我们品尝。
Original English >> Okay, Michael, you brought some oils for us to try.
>> 开始吧。我们来品尝测试一下。
Original English >> Let's do it. Let's taste test.
>> 遗憾的是，品鉴的步骤是晃杯、闻香、吸啜，然后咽下去。
Original English >> Unfortunately, the process is to swirl, sniff, slurp, and then swallow.
>> 太好了。
Original English >> Great.
>> 这简直
Original English >> Which is just
>> 太可怕了。
Original English >> horrifying.
>> 在镜头前做这个太可怕了。
Original English >> Horrifying to do on air.
>> 那么，这是第一号。
Original English >> So, this is number one.
>> 是的，这是第一号。好的，首先把它拿在手里。这些杯子有时配有小盖子，但也可以直接用手。你要在手里晃动它，稍微把油温热一下。这样更容易闻到气味。
Original English >> Yes, this is number one. So, okay. So, first hold it in your hand. And there's like a little lid for these sometimes, but or you could just use your hand. You just want to like swirl it in your hand and just sort of like warm the oil a little bit. Just makes it easier to smell.
>> 然后
Original English >> And then
>> 这画面真有意思。我们拿着这些郁金香小杯子，手掌按在杯口上晃动。
Original English >> this is quite a picture. We are holding these little tulip glasses and swirling them with our palms over the tops.
>> 闻起来好香。
Original English >> Smells delicious.
>> 然后你把鼻子凑过去。
Original English >> And then you knock your your nose.
>> 你不喜欢这味道？我喜欢这味道。感觉像在意大利。闻起来就是青草味。闻着像青草。青草味很浓。感觉像在农场。这，噢。
Original English >> You don't like the smell? I love the smell. I feel like I'm in Italy. It just smells like grassy. It smells grassy. Very grassy. I feel like I'm at a farm. It's Ooh.
>> 好的。
Original English >> All right.
>> 是的。现在，当你吸啜时，你就这样吸入，让它吸过舌面。弄出声音来。
Original English >> Yeah. So now, so when you slurp it, you just slurp it and slurp it across here. Be noisy.
>> 我知道。感觉很怪。是的。
Original English >> I know. It's a weird sensation. Yeah.
>> 我的天，这太
Original English >> Oh my god, that's so
>> 我们快失去 Kyra 了。
Original English >> We're losing, Kyra.
>> 各位，我觉得我没办法再做两次了。
Original English >> You guys, I don't think I can do this two more times.
>> 我真的很不喜欢它在嘴里的那种感觉。呃，就是直接喝油。但那种风味在味蕾上散开、并在喉咙后部带来强烈冲击感的方式，真的太美妙了。
Original English >> I really did not like the experience of it in my mouth. Um, just drinking oil. But the way that the flavor diffuses on the palette and really kicks you in the back of the throat. That's so nice.
>> 果味非常浓。而且这是最浓的青苹果味。
Original English >> It is very fruity. And this is the most green apple.
>> 是的。青苹果。绝对是。是的，是的。
Original English >> Yeah. Green apple. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.
>> 这就是一号。
Original English >> So that's number one.
>> 这是二号橄榄油。
Original English >> This is olive oil number two.
>> 我们在晃杯。我们在温杯。
Original English >> We're swirling. We're warming.
>> 让我们把鼻子凑进去闻闻。
Original English >> Let's get the nose in there.
>> 噢，哇。是的。
Original English >> Oh wow. Yeah.
>> 我更喜欢这一款。没有那种草腥泥土味。
Original English >> I like this one better. It's not grassy dirt smelling.
>> 嗯。像水果，淡淡的果香，可能还有点草本味。
Original English >> Mhm. like fruits like like light fruit maybe a little herby.
>> 是的，绝对能闻到里面的草本植物味。是的。
Original English >> Yeah, definitely getting herbs on this. Yeah.
>> 那么，晃杯、闻香、吸啜、咽下。
Original English >> So, swirl, sniff, slurp, swallow.
>> 我在吸啜了。我没听到你的声音。
Original English >> I'm slurping. I didn't hear you.
>> 继续。刚才那是一次，好吧。
Original English >> Go on. That was a Okay.
>> 好吧。
Original English >> Okay.
>> 但是，这一个尝起来有点苦。
Original English >> So, but this one's like bitter.
>> 是的，它
Original English >> Yeah, it's handle this one.
>> 这款对我来说没什么感觉。
Original English >> This one isn't doing anything for me.
>> 噢，真的吗？可能是因为你之前已经受到了
Original English >> Oh, really? Maybe cuz you already hit your
>> 可能是因为刚才已经冲击过我了。我之后没感到任何感觉。
Original English >> Maybe because it already hit me. I don't feel any sensation afterwards.
>> 嗯。在舌面上吸啜它。是的。我的天，因为这个在舌头上很辛辣。
Original English >> Uhuh. Slurp slurp it like across your tongue. Yeah. Oh my god. Cuz this is this is spicy on the tone.
>> 胡椒般的辛辣，像黑胡椒一样。
Original English >> Pepper spicy like like black pepper.
>> 是的。关于这款还要说的是，它非常厚重。从黏稠度来说。
Original English >> Yeah. The other thing to say about this one is it's very thick. It's in terms of viscosity.
>> 是的，是的。带有一种黄油般的质感。是的。
Original English >> Yeah. Yeah. Has like a buttery quality to it. Yeah.
>> 但它没有一直黏在我嘴里。上一款有点那样。
Original English >> But it's not like clinging to my mouth. The last one kind of was.
>> 噢，真的吗？是的，是的。
Original English >> Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.
>> 一号尝起来更油。
Original English >> Number one tasted more oily.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 是的。这个有一种黄油般的特质。是的。
Original English >> Yeah. This has a buttery quality to it. Yeah.
>> 这款对我来说非常温和。尝起来是苦的。
Original English >> This is very mild to me. It tastes bitter.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 而且我感到有一点灼烧感。噢，有意思。
Original English >> And I feel a little bit of a burn. Oh, interesting.
>> 完全比不上第一款的灼烧感。第一款的那种灼烧感，哇。
Original English >> Nothing like that first burn. That first burn like whoa.
>> 是的，是的，是的，是的。好的。
Original English >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
>> 好的。这是第三号。
Original English >> Okay. This is number three.
>> 好的。
Original English >> Okay.
>> 轻轻拍动并温热它。
Original English >> And tap it and warm it.
>> 晃杯。我们在温杯。我们在晃杯。
Original English >> Swirling. We're warming. We're swirling.
>> 我来闻一下。哇。对我来说这味道几乎有点像蜡。
Original English >> And I'm going to sniff. Whoa. That's almost like waxy to me.
>> 是的。还记得我之前说的吗？
Original English >> Yeah. Remember what I was saying earlier?
>> 那是不是有点像蜡笔的气味？我觉得像红蜡笔。
Original English >> Is that like a little essence of crayon? I think it's like a red crayon.
>> 确实是。神奇吧？闻起来像……像……
Original English >> It really does. Isn't it wild? It smells like like
>> 像毛糙发霉……
Original English >> it's like fuzzy
>> 蜡和硬纸板的味道。是的。
Original English >> wax and cardboard. Yeah.
>> 闻起来陈旧。就是很陈旧的味道。
Original English >> It smells old. Just like old.
>> 闻起来像……这就是变质的那一瓶。
Original English >> Smells like this is the rancid one.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 晃杯、闻香、吸啜、咽下，各位。
Original English >> Swirl, sniff, slurp, and swallow, guys.
>> 噢，全糊在嘴里了。
Original English >> Oh, just coats your mouth.
>> 我知道。这是一种不同的感觉。我不喜欢那个，Michael。不同的感觉就像……就像你刚刚弹错了一个音符或者别的什么，就像……
Original English >> I know. It's a different I don't like that, Michael. Different sensation is like if you were like you just played an off note or something like it's like
>> 是的。没有那种灼烧感。呃，风味平淡。黏在嘴里。
Original English >> Yeah. Doesn't have that burn. Um, it's flat. Clings to your mouth.
>> 那瓶在我的窗台上放了大概一个月，装在透明玻璃罐里，盖子没盖紧。
Original English >> That's that's been sitting in my window for about a month with with a loose lid on it in a clear glass jar.
>> 专门为今天做的准备。
Original English >> In preparation for this day.
>> 专门为今天做的准备。
Original English >> In preparation for this day.
>> 如果你直接喝纯植物油，尝起来就是这味道。
Original English >> This is what it would taste like if you just drank straight vegetable oil.
>> 是的，是的。就是那种……所以它就像失去了所有的……是的。
Original English >> Yeah. Yeah. It it has that sort of So, it's like lost all of its Yeah.
>> 而且留在嘴里的余味让人很不舒服。
Original English >> And the the lingering flavor is just not pleasant.
>> 那么，一号是 Fat Gold，是用 Arbequina 橄榄压榨的油。第二款也是 Fat Gold，但产自 Frantoio 橄榄。好吧，
Original English >> So, number one was fat gold and it's their oil that's made from arbina olives. And the second one was also fat gold, but it is from FanToyo Olives. Okay,
>> 那就是发苦微辣的那款。我刚收到这批货，所以我想，“噢，这会挺好玩的。”我觉得这样很好，因为，你知道，这些橄榄——有些超市品牌是不会标注橄榄品种的，所以我想让你们尝尝特定品种的橄榄油会很有意思。是的。橄榄栽培品种。然后最后一瓶是我那一小罐变质难闻的油。呃……
Original English >> that was the bitter spicy one. I just got this shipment in, so I was like, "Oh, this will be fun." I think it's nice because, you know, the the olives, some of the grocery store brands aren't going to have the type of olive, so I thought it would be interesting for you to try like like a specific type of Yeah. olive cultivar. So, and then the last one was my little jar of gross oil. um
>> 一个透明罐子。
Original English >> a clear jar.
>> 有哪些……这些并不是精选推荐款。
Original English >> What are some of the These are not picks.
>> 不是。
Original English >> No.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 我们指南里有哪些你真正喜爱、自从做了这份指南之后一直在用的推荐款？
Original English >> What are some of the pickicss that we have in our guide that you really love that you've been using since you since you did this guide?
>> 好的。那么，对于果味和黄油味很浓、非常适合配鱼或者清淡沙拉酱的油——也许是带水果的沙拉酱——我非常喜欢 Bono Sicilia PGI 有机西西里橄榄油。那款真的很好。我们大家都非常喜欢那款。它不会像其他某些油那样辛辣浓烈。比如如果你想要更浓郁的，Bertolli 就非常……我们测试了浓郁风味（Rich Taste）那款。他们就是那么称呼它的，浓郁风味。它就是那种浓烈、辛辣的风味。他们调配的油。
Original English >> Yes. Okay. So, for one that's like really fruity and buttery that's really good with fish or like a lighter salad dressing. Maybe a salad dressing that has fruit in it. I really like the Bono Sicilia PGI organic Sicilian olive oil. That one's really good. We all really like that one. It's not going to be as pungent and bold as as some of the others. Like if you want something more bold, Berto is like really We tested the rich taste one. That's what they call it. The rich taste. So it's just like the bold peppery. So they're blend.
那是多种橄榄的混配油。不过，那会是草本风味更浓郁、口感更大胆强烈的那一款。但对，那就像是光谱的两个极端。另外还有 Graza，那一款也同样会偏浓郁且带点胡椒辛辣感。是的。
Original English There's a blend of of a bunch of olives. But um that's like going to be the more like grassy bold one. But yeah, those that's like kind of those are like the two extremes of the spectrum. And then also the Graza. That one's also going to be a little more bold and peppery. Yeah.
>> 太喜欢了。
Original English >> Love it.
>> 迈克尔，你最近买的真正喜欢的最后一样东西是什么？
Original English >> Michael, what's the last thing you've recently bought that you've really loved?
### 近期心仪好物 >> 噢，这听起来有点书呆子气，我平时做很多缝纫活儿，我刚买了这些……这些古董纽扣。我说着自己都笑了，听起来太像个怪人呆子了，但上面印着那些非常迷人女性的肖像。它们大约有 100 年历史了，上面有小肖像，其中一位女士戴着一顶俏皮的大帽子。所以不管怎样，我打算把它们缝到我准备做的一件衬衫上。
Original English >> Oh, so this is kind of nerdy, but so I do a lot of sewing, but I just bought these um these antique buttons. I'm laughing as I'm saying this, so I sound like such a dork, but they're like portraits of like these very fabulous women. They're like 100 years old and they have like little portraits and one of the women is wearing a big jaunty hat. So anyway, I'm going to put them on a shirt that I'm going to make.
>> 你在哪儿找到它们的？
Original English >> Where did you find them?
>> 万维网。
Original English >> The worldwide web.
>> WW 网。
Original English >> WW web.
>> 不是啦，我在 eBay 上买的。
Original English >> No, I got them on on eBay.
>> 迈克尔，非常感谢你能来参加我们的节目。
Original English >> Michael, thanks so much for joining us.
>> 非常感谢你们。
Original English >> Thank you so much.
### 本期心得与橄榄油选购要点 >> 又一期与迈克尔·沙利文合作的精彩节目。
Original English >> Another great episode with Michael Sullivan.
>> 我是说，我们什么时候再请他回来？他太棒了。
Original English >> I mean, when are we going to have him back again? He's so great.
>> 是啊，他最好别再带橄榄油到我身边来了。对，公平地说，我们不想再喝他的橄榄油了。
Original English >> Yeah, he better not bring any more olive oil around me. Yeah, to be fair, we don't want to drink any more of his olive oil.
>> 很讨人喜欢的人。
Original English >> Lovely man.
>> 大家，请千万别再让我干那事儿了。
Original English >> Please don't ever make me do that again, y'all.
>> 你们大家从这期节目里收获了什么？
Original English >> What are you all taking away from this episode?
>> 嗯，我真的觉得我现在得在这个节目里来一场橄榄油“耻辱之行”了，我得承认我一直把橄榄油放在炉灶旁一个带倒油嘴的透明瓶子里，因为那样超级方便。我想我回家后不得不停止这么做了，蒙羞啊。是的，太丢人了。太丢人了。而且我觉得因为我储存油的方式，我回家后得尝一尝，确保它还没变哈喇。
Original English >> Well, I truly feel that I have now the olive oil walk of shame to do on this show where I need to admit that I've been keeping my olive oil in a clear bottle with a spout near the stove because it's super convenient. And I guess I'm going to have to stop doing that when I get shame. Yes, for shame. For shame. And I think because of the way I've been storing my oil, I will taste it when I get home to make sure it hasn't gone rancid.
>> 哇，你真勇敢。
Original English >> Wow, you're brave.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 额，是啊。我就直接认定我的橄榄油已经坏了，直接买一瓶新的。没必要去尝它。
Original English >> Uh, yeah. I'm just gonna assume that my olive oil is bad and I'm just going to buy a new one. No need to taste it.
>> 你打算买哪款？
Original English >> What are you going to get?
>> 我想我会买 Bertoi，因为我去过的每家杂货店里肯定都能见到它。所以，
Original English >> I think I'm going to get the Bertoi because I definitely seen that in every grocery store I've ever been to. So,
>> 非常容易买到。
Original English >> very accessible.
>> 我想我已经决定了，我不会成为一个对橄榄油讲究的人。不管什么油，只要能用并且便宜，我就很满意了。我觉得这次对话证实了我是一个讲究橄榄油的人，而且以后也会继续是。嗯，我的收获是特级初榨（extra virgin）是王者。那正是你在寻找的东西，当你知道自己想要那种真正地道的橄榄风味时，你要找的标识就是它。
Original English >> I think I've decided that I'm not going to be an olive oil person. It's just I'm happy with whatever works and is cheap. I feel like this conversation validated uh the fact that I am an olive oil person and will continue to be. Um I'm taking away that extra virgin is king of the hill. That's what you look for, the designation you look for when you know you want to have something that is that real authentic olive taste.
>> 还有瓶子上要看的另一件事，采摘日期。真要尽量确保你能看到采摘日期，并且从采摘起算在 2 年内食用，
Original English >> Um and then the other thing to look for on the bottle, harvest date. really trying to ensure that you see a harvest date and that it's within 2 years that you're consuming it from harvest
>> 而且不要和最佳食用日期混淆。
Original English >> and not to be confused with the best buy date.
>> 不要和最佳食用日期混淆。
Original English >> Not to be confused with the best buy date.
>> 而且在这里越陈可越不会更好。
Original English >> And older is not better here.
>> 越陈越不好。我们可不是在陈年优质葡萄酒。
Original English >> Older is not better. We're not aging like fine wine.
>> 如果你想了解迈克尔报道的更多内容，可以查看我们的节目说明和网站。我们这期就到这里。非常感谢收听。
Original English >> If you want to find out more about Michael's reporting, you can check out our show notes and our website. That's it for us. Thanks so much for listening.
>> 拜拜。
Original English >> Bye bye.
### 制作人员名单与片尾花絮 The Wirecutter Show 执行制作人为 Rosie Guerin，制作人为 Abigail Keel。工程支持来自 Mattie Maziello 和 Nick Pitman。今日节目的混音由 Katherine Anderson 完成。原创音乐由 Dan Powell、Marian Lozano、Rowan Nemoto、Katherine Anderson 以及 Diane Wong 创作。Cliff Levy 是 Wirecutter 的副出版人兼总经理。Ben Frumin 是 Wirecutter 的总编辑。我是 Christine Cyrette。我是 Kyra Blackwell。我是 Rosie Guerin。感谢收听。
Original English The Wire Cutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Garin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Mattie Maziello and Nick Pitman. Today's episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano, Rowan Nemoto, Katherine Anderson, and Diane Wong. Cliff Levy is Wire Cutter's deputy publisher and general manager. Ben Fman is Wire Cutters editor-inchief. I'm Christine Sirette. I'm Kyra Blackwell. And I'm Rosie Garin. Thanks for listening.
>> 那是对的，如果你不习惯直接品尝它，那反应就像是人们在商店里当众呛到了一样。你心想：“天哪，你没事吧？”
Original English >> It's Yeah, if you're not used to trying it, the reaction was just like people like choking in public in the store. You're like, "Oh my gosh, are you okay?