--- author: TVO Today date: '2025-11-14' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKE7vFgLO5k speaker: TVO Today tags: - mental-health - addiction-recovery - social-stigma - grief-coping - healing-process title: 延续马修·派里的遗产：建立支持性康复社区与直面心理健康污名化 summary: 在《老友记》主演马修·派里逝世两周年之际，其妹妹兼马修·派里之家执行董事凯特琳·莫里森接受专访，深情回忆哥哥生前幽默而极度保护家人的点滴，并阐释其生前所言“希望死后首先因帮助他人而被铭记”的精神内核。访谈深入探讨了成瘾与心理健康背后的社会污名、媒体在心理健康议题上的角色转变，并分享了在渥太华成立支持性康复社区以及个人通过体力劳动与大自然接触进行身心调节的治愈之道。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: psychology area: society-thinking project: [] people: - Matthew Perry companies_orgs: - Matthew Perry House - Make Music Matter products_models: [] media_books: [] status: evergreen --- ### 开场与背景介绍：马修·派里的真正心愿 **主持人**: 媒体在提及马修·派里时，往往首先称他为《**老友记**》（Friends）的明星。但这位出生于加拿大的演员兼喜剧人，内心却怀揣着一个全然不同的追求。他曾经说过：“当我离开人世时，我希望人们首先提及的，是我曾帮助过他人。”自从两年前派里离世以来，他的家人与挚友们便始终致力于践行这一遗愿。他们在渥太华建立了“**马修·派里之家**”（Matthew Perry House），这是一个专门为深陷成瘾与心理健康困境的人群设立的支持性康复社区。今晚，他们与“**让音乐发声**”（Make Music Matter）公益组织携手合作，在多伦多举办了一场星光熠熠的慈善筹款晚会。为了更深入地了解派里的生平与精神遗产，今天我们有幸邀请到了**马修·派里之家**的执行董事、也是这位演员的妹妹——**凯特琳·莫里森**（Caitlin Morrison）。非常欢迎你的到来，今天近况如何？
Original English **Host**: The media usually refers to Friends star Matthew Perry, but the Canadian-born actor and comedian had a different goal. He said, "When I die, I want helping others to be the first thing that's mentioned." Since Perry died two years ago, his family and friends have been working to honor that. They established Matthew Perry House, a supportive recovery community in Ottawa for people with addiction and mental health challenges. Tonight, in partnership with Make Music Matter, it will be hosting a star-studded fundraiser in Toronto to learn more about Perry's life and legacy. I sat down with Caitlin Morrison, the executive director of Matthew Perry House and the actor's sister. Caitlin, great to have you here, how are you doing?
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 很高兴能来到这里。我挺好的，虽然此刻心情感慨万千、百感交集，但整体感觉非常棒。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: It's great to be here. I am good. I am overwhelmed. I'm great.
--- ### 妹妹眼中的哥哥：无厘头幽默与极度护妹 **主持人**: 让我们透过你的视角来重新认识**马修·派里**。这里有一张你和哥哥马修·派里当年的合影。能不能跟我们聊聊，他在你生活中到底是怎样一个人？作为一个哥哥，他又有着怎样的性格？
Original English **Host**: Let's get to know Matthew Perry through your eyes. Here's a picture with you and your older brother, Matthew Perry. Give us a sense: what was he like, what kind of a brother was he?
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 他真的是一个非常棒、非常不可思议的人。他大概是任何人所能拥有的最搞笑、最有幽默感的大哥了。和他在一起的生活充满了各种精彩纷呈的肢体喜剧（slapstick gags）。你知道的，在那种耳濡目染下，我学会了如何逗人开心，甚至偷偷学来了他的幽默感——我想我确实学到了不少。 但另一方面，他同时也是一个极度过度保护（overprotective）妹妹的人。即便到了我二十多岁已经完全成年的时候，他依然会像对待小孩子一样碎碎念：“哎呀，我不知道这样好不好……我真不觉得晚上八点出门是个好主意。你确定和你一起出门的那些人靠得住吗？你确定电视上那种节目你能看吗？那内容是不是有点太血腥暴力了？”当时我们在看什么来着，好像是电影《拯救大兵瑞恩》（Saving Private Ryan）之类的作品吧。那时候我分明已经是个成年人了，但对他而言，我永远是那个需要被呵护的小不点妹妹；而他在我的心目中，也永远是一个顶天立地、超越常人体量的大人物。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: He was, I mean, an amazing, amazing brother. He was the funniest older brother probably that anybody ever had. So it was a lot of really cool slapstick gags, and you know, kind of learning to be funny and steal his sense of humor, which I think I did. And but also the other thing is he was very, very overprotective. So well into my twenties, he was still saying things like, "Oh, I don't know, I don't know if that's a really good idea for you to go out past eight o'clock at night. Are you sure that you're comfortable with the people you're going out with? Are you sure you're allowed to watch that on TV? It's a little violent." What were we watching? It was some... I can't even remember, Saving Private Ryan or something like that, maybe. But you know, I was a grown-up. I am a grown-up now, but I was always a little tiny kid to him, and he was always kind of a bigger version of a human to me, too.
--- ### 渥太华根基与冰球队情缘 **主持人**: 我听说你们之间还有点冰球方面的渊源对吧？他当年是在渥太华长大的，支持的是渥太华参议员队（Ottawa Senators），而你却是多伦多枫叶队（Toronto Maple Leafs）的铁杆球迷，这冰球立场可完全是对立的阵营啊。这到底是怎么一回事？我们现在人在多伦多，你支持枫叶队在这里绝对是安全的。
Original English **Host**: Now I understand turf wars here. He was in Ottawa and an Ottawa Senators fan, and you're a Leafs fan, that is cold rivalry! How did that all come about? Senators versus Leafs, that's right. We're in Toronto right now, so your state is okay.
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 哈哈，好的，那我就放心了！事情是这样的：马修是在渥太华长大的，而我只在渥太华生活到大约四岁左右。那个时候我还太小，根本不知道冰球是什么东西。后来我回到了多伦多，等我稍大一点开始真正迷上冰球时，自然而然就成了多伦多枫叶队的球迷。然后你也知道看枫叶队比赛的滋味——每一个枫叶球迷都感同身受：每年满怀希望，每年失望而归；到了下一年又重新燃起希望，然后紧接着再次心碎失望。但我感觉我们谁都无法割舍这份热爱，因为大家心里总会想着：“万一他们明年真赢了呢？要是我们现在放弃了怎么办？”
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: Good! But yes, so he grew up in Ottawa. I lived in Ottawa until I was about four, and at that point, I did not know what hockey was. But once I came back to Toronto, when I got very invested in hockey a little bit later, I mean, the Leafs! And then, you know, everybody knows: you get disappointed every year, you get hopeful the next year, then you get disappointed again. And I feel like none of us can let go of our fandom because what if they win next year and we let go?
**主持人**: 这确实是千千万万多伦多枫叶队球迷共同的心声与执念。
Original English **Host**: That is the hope of many Leafs fans.
--- ### 为什么选择渥太华：回归故土与安全港湾 **主持人**: 如今，“马修·派里之家”坐落在渥太华，这是你们建立的第一所康复机构。能为我们讲讲马修与这座城市的深厚渊源吗？为什么首个社区必须非选渥太华不可？
Original English **Host**: Now, Matthew Perry House is in Ottawa. The first one is there. Tell me about his connection to the city and why that needed to be the first one?
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 怎么说呢，他骨子里自始至终都是一个**渥太华**的孩子。他深爱着那座城市。那里是他的大本营，是他真正的故乡。他在那里上的学，并在那里结识了一生挚友。在生命的某些阶段，他甚至还在当地看房考察房产，因为他打心底里想重回那里生活，觉得那里才是真正能让他感到心安、像家一样的地方。所以那里可以说是属于他的精神归宿。我自己也非常喜欢渥太华，那是个非常美丽的城市。但我认为他对那片土地的情感连接，要比寻常人深刻得多、也更深植于骨髓。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: Well, I mean, he always was an Ottawa kid. He loved it. It was his home base. It was his hometown. That was where he went to school, where he met best friends for life. He was even looking at real estate because he felt like he wanted to go back there because it would feel more like home. So it was just kind of his spot. And I love it there, too—beautiful place. But I think his connection was, you know, deeper rooted.
--- ### 助人为乐的心灵救赎：剥离名利的本质价值 **主持人**: 鉴于这份深厚的情感联结，渥太华确实是最顺理成章的选择。当马修去世时，人们反复引用他说过的那句话：“当我死后，我希望人们首先记住的是我帮助过他人。”这句话自他离世后便被广泛讨论与传颂。我认为这句话有着极其深远的意义。但我很想深入探寻一下，为什么对他而言，被世人以‘助人者’的身份记住，其重要性要远远胜过因在《老友记》中饰演**钱德勒·宾**（Chandler Bing）而名扬天下？
Original English **Host**: And so that seemed like the spot in terms of connections. When he passed, he had this quote, he said, "When I die, I want helping others to be the first thing that's mentioned." It's a quote that's been sort of talked about ever since he passed, and I think it's an important one. But I want to understand: why was it important that Matthew... that people will remember him for that and not for being Chandler or being on Friends?
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 你用这种方式提出这个问题，真的深深触动了我，让我从一个全新的视角重新审视这件事。我想这是因为，当他投身于帮助别人时——顺便提一句，他生前经常默默做这些事——那才是真正让他觉得自己作为一个人有价值、有存在意义的时刻，那让他感到自己是一个充实而有分量的人。 这种助人的过程，能够帮他驱散并抚平那些他常年小心翼翼隐藏在心底的阴暗痛苦。而当他仅仅是在逗所有人发笑、在荧幕前抖包袱、站在镁光灯的最中央扮演钱德勒时，所有那些深入骨髓的痛苦，往往只是被强行压制在幽默喜剧的表象之下罢了。 老实说，大多数时候连我也看不穿那层掩饰，世上绝大多数人平时也都看不到他内心的煎熬。但我逐渐意识到，对他而言，**幽默喜剧只是一种应对机制**（coping mechanism），而**真正的治愈机制**（healing mechanism），则是他发现自己有能力去帮扶处于深渊中的其他人。能向他人伸出援手、切实改变另一个生命，那种感觉是真正美好且具有救赎力量的。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: Well, that just moved me in a whole new way, the fact that you asked the question that way. And I think it's because when he was helping people—and he did that a lot, by the way—when he was helping people, that was what made him feel good as a human being. That made him feel like something. It took away a lot of those things that he was hiding away a lot of the time, those painful things. And when he was just making people laugh, and when he was doing the funny bit, when he was all out there and, you know, being Chandler, I think all that pain was being pushed down under the comedy. Because I mean, I didn't see it most of the time. Most people didn't see it most of the time. But I think for him, you know, comedy was a coping mechanism, but a healing mechanism was realizing that he could find a way to help other people. It feels really good to help other people.
--- ### 打破心理健康的社会污名与“无法挽救”的误区 **主持人**: 你年轻的时候经常去片场探班，亲眼目睹了所有的欢声笑语和经典桥段。但正如你刚才提到的，你可能并没有看到那些无论是马修本人、剧组其他演员还是任何普通人在私下生活中所不得不面对的阴暗面与心理挣扎。你认为在当今的娱乐行业中，围绕心理健康问题是否依然存在某种**污名化**（stigma）？
Original English **Host**: Now you, when you were younger, you got to be on set and see all of the jokes and all the laughter. And like you mentioned, you probably didn't see the stuff that, whether it was Matthew or other cast members or anyone, just kind of the dark side or things that they were dealing with on a personal level. Do you think there is a bit of a stigma around mental health still in the entertainment industry?
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 我认为不仅是娱乐行业，心理健康的污名化在任何地方都普遍存在。而且更可怕的是，这种污名往往已经**内化**（internalized）到了我们每个人的潜意识里。在现实生活中，我们很容易自然而然地对旁人抱怨一句：“哎呀，我的腰疼得简直快要要了我的命！”但如果我们换成坦白承认：“我今天心情极度低落、状态跌入谷底，我感觉非常不好”，想要说出这样一句话，难度却要大得多得多。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: I think there's a stigma around mental health everywhere, and I think it's internalized too. It's very easy for us to say something like, "My back, it's just driving me nuts." But it's a little bit harder to say, "I'm feeling really low today. I just don't feel good."
**主持人**: 那我们究竟该如何去扭转和改变这一现状呢？
Original English **Host**: How do you change that?
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 我觉得改变的第一步，就是让全社会意识到，坦诚谈论自己的心理脆弱是完全可以接受、且完全正当的事。我认为这一方面在近年来其实已经有了很大的积极转变。越来越多的人在谈论心理话题时感觉更自在了，也有更多人愿意鼓起勇气主动向外界寻求帮助。这是一个良好的开端。 但问题的另一面在于，当某些人陷入极端困境、处于心理疾病最黑暗绝望的深渊时，外界往往会觉得这种情况太过棘手、根本无从下手去解决。当你看到一个人痛苦到几乎与周围现实世界脱节、表现出极度的愤怒、暴躁或挫败感时，周围的人往往会感到手足无措：“我根本不知道自己该怎么办，我不忍心看到他们这样，但我完全不知道如何伸出援手。” 这种无力感反过来会让我们产生一种自我防卫心理：“如果我无能为力，那要么是我自己有问题，要么就是对方已经病入膏肓、成了‘无法挽回’（unfixable）的绝症。”于是，污名化便由此滋生——因为把这归咎为无法解决的顽疾，对旁观者而言反而是一种更容易摆脱心理负担的视角，仿佛它只是一个我们巴不得能一键消除、却又无计可施的麻烦。 但我坚信，这绝不仅仅是个别边缘群体的问题，而是关乎我们每一个人的共同议题。事实上，我们每一个人离陷入自己人生的最坏绝境，往往都只有半步之遥。正如马修最终在帮助他人中找到了内心的至纯喜悦一样，我认为只要我们转变心态——不再仅仅一味追求自身的舒适和逃避，而是学会环顾四周，坚定地告诉身边人：“不，也许我能帮上忙，我至少愿意去尝试一下”——我们的社会就一定会变得更加充满温情、喜悦与美好。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: I think one of the ways we change it is we make people realize that that's an okay thing to talk about. And I feel like that's something that's been changing a lot already. People feel a lot more comfortable talking about that stuff; they feel a little bit more comfortable reaching out for help. So that's one thing. But another piece is, when people are really struggling, when they're in the sort of the darkest side of mental health issues, it seems so difficult to solve. It seems like something you can't do anything about. I mean, when you see somebody who is at the point where they almost seem to have lost touch with the world around them, they seem nothing but angry, they seem really frustrated, there's a sense of "I don't know what I'm supposed to do about it. I don't like to see it, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do about it." And I think that kind of makes us think, "Well, if I can't help, then there's either something wrong with me, or maybe I can decide that that's a person who can't be helped, that's an unfixable situation." And so it becomes stigmatized because it's an easier way to look at it—that it's just a problem that we wish could be erased, but we don't really know what to do. And I think it's actually more of an everyone thing. We're all half a step away from being in the worst-case scenario of our own. And I think the way that Matthew found his true joy in helping other people, I think that we can find a much more joyful and wonderful society if we decide that instead of trying to make ourselves more comfortable, we start looking around and saying, "No, maybe I can help. I'm going to at least try."
--- ### 媒体在公共心理对话中的角色与不确定性 **主持人**: 的确，即便只是像你我今天这样坐下来开诚布公地进行对话，也是至关重要的突破。刚刚在镜头之外你还坦言，其实你并不习惯面对摄像机，镜头会让你感到有些紧张甚至害怕。但你依然选择坐在这里，因为公开谈论这些议题太重要了。我很想听听你的看法：在你看来，媒体在推动围绕心理健康的社会公共讨论方面，究竟起到了积极还是消极的作用？过去这几年里，媒体所扮演的角色及其作为究竟如何？
Original English **Host**: Well, one of the things someone says, even having these conversations that you and we talk about being comfortable with... what we received just off-camera is that you're not very comfortable being in front of cameras. You said, "I'm terrified." But you know it's important to talk about these conversations. I am curious, in your opinion, has media had a positive or negative role in the conversation around mental health? And what are your thoughts in terms of their role and what they've been able to do over the last couple of years?
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 我认为这几年发生了很多积极的变化，总体趋势是非常正向的。大家能在公共平台上听到越来越多的相关探讨，媒体也愈发主动、频繁地去报道和讨论这一议题。而且我认为，这种对心理支持的需求，媒体行业从业者自身同样感同身受。 因为大家其实都在面对一样的问题：外界充满了巨大的不确定性，大家都在怀疑“这种状态稳定吗？能一直持续下去吗？我们是否需要彻底重塑自我？我们坚守做真实的自己究竟还行不行得通？”当今世界瞬息万变，有时确实令人感到恐惧。因此，媒体能够选择直面问题并展开深入探讨，而不是像过去那样粉饰太平、视而不见，这本身就是一个极其鼓舞人心的巨大进步。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: I think there's been a lot going on that's been really positive. I think that you're hearing about it more. I think media is talking about it more. And I think that it's sort of being felt in the media world, too, right? That there's more need for support even in the people who are living it. I don't know about you, but I think just like for everyone else, there's more uncertainty. There's more: "Is this a stable thing? Is this going to keep going? Do we need to totally reinvent who we are? Are we okay to be who we are?" It's a really rapidly changing, very scary world. So the fact that media is choosing to talk about it instead of pulling a blanket over it and ignoring it is a really good sign.
--- ### 晚会亮点：让释放、欢笑与治愈并存 **主持人**: 接下来想聊聊今晚的重头戏。“马修·派里之家”携手“让音乐发声”（Make Music Matter）组织，在科纳音乐厅（Koerner Hall）举办了一场盛大的慈善筹款晚会。能跟我们具体讲讲这场活动的意义吗？
Original English **Host**: I think I want to talk about tonight. Matthew Perry House is hosting a big fundraiser at Koerner Hall in partnership with Make Music Matter. Talk about that.
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 这场活动真的非常有趣！你知道的，我们平日里所做的许多救助与运营工作虽然无比充实、意义深远，但坦白讲往往并不轻松有趣，甚至有时会让人感到撕心裂肺般沉重。而今晚的活动则是专门为大家带来欢笑与释放的。与我们携手的“让音乐发声”组织也是如此，他们日常面对的同样是极其沉重的创伤议题。但今晚我们想向所有人证明：面对苦难，我们依然拥有拥抱快乐的权利！ 我们可以像释放原始呐喊（primal scream）一样，痛痛快快地甩掉平日肩头所背负的所有沉重包袱。我们可以把所有人聚在同一个屋檐下，让彼此深刻感受到相聚所产生的磅礴力量。在这里，大家可以毫无顾忌地袒露自己的脆弱与痛楚，但与此同时，更可以在谈论这些沉重过往时，脸上依然能够绽放出会心的微笑。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: This is fun! You know, a lot of the things we do are very fulfilling and wonderful, but not fun. They can be a bit heart-wrenching. And this is kind of meant to be... and the other organization, Make Music Matter, that's working on it with us, it's kind of the same thing. They deal with a lot of heavy things. And this is like: you know what, we can still be joyful. We can create like a primal scream and let go of all those things that we carry all the time. And we can bring people together to all feel together how powerful it is when you do get in a room and let go and feel okay about talking about your stuff, but also smiling even though you're talking about your stuff.
--- ### 个人心理调节：从热瑜伽到“伐木工疗法” **主持人**: 我还想请教一个私人问题。这段时间以来，你投入了巨大的精力奔走呼告，频繁参与这些可能让人感到局促不适但又极其关键的对话。作为一名倡导者，你平时是通过什么方式来维护和调节自己的心理健康的？
Original English **Host**: I want to ask, because you've been spending a lot of time talking about these uncomfortable, important conversations: what's one thing that you do to maintain your mental health?
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 首先，我会花大量的时间静静地陪伴家人。这种纯粹的家庭时光能让我感到无比幸福，让我迅速回归到生活中真正重要的事物上。 不过除此以外，我最近还自创了一种全新的奇特疗法。我以前非常反感瑜伽，尤其是那种大汗淋漓的热瑜伽，我过去是一点都受不了。后来我搬到了安大略省南部一个非常偏远的乡村居住，在那里根本找不到任何瑜伽馆，我不得不寻找新的解压途径。结果你猜怎么着？我赫然发现自己特别享受当一个“**伐木工**”（lumberjack）！ 砍树，没错！在我居住的地方，长着一些不利于南安大略省生态环境的入侵树种。它们原本不属于这里，但生命力极度顽固、蔓延速度极快。于是，只要我哪天心情不好或者感到沮丧，我就会径直走到后院，挑出其中一棵讨厌的树，毫不留情地把它砍倒，然后彻底把它深埋的树根挖出来！我跟你说，干这活的暴汗锻炼效果可比练瑜伽强太多了！最后再把砍下的树木拖走。这一整套流程下来，真的有一种难以言喻的身心净化感，而且能置身于大自然之中本身也是一件极其美妙的事情。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: Well, first of all, I spend a lot of time just quietly spending time with my family, and that makes me very happy, brings me back to what's important in life. But I have developed a new kind of therapy. I used to be very anti-yoga, especially like really hot, sweaty yoga. But I recently moved to a very rural location, and yoga is not available, so I had to find something else. And what I found was: I enjoy being a lumberjack! Cutting trees, yes! In the place where I live, there are some trees that are not good for southern Ontario; they're not supposed to be there. They made their way in, and they're stubborn, and they spread rapidly. So if I am in a bad mood, I go to the backyard and I find one of those trees, and I chop it down, and I dig up its roots. And that, by the way, is a way better workout than yoga by far! And I drag it away, and there's something really cleansing about it. And it's wonderfully being out in nature as well.
**主持人**: 哈哈，把伐木当成日常锻炼解压方式，这可真是太有加拿大特色了，太棒了！
Original English **Host**: Yeah, it's a very Canadian thing to have lumberjack workout, that's awesome!
**主持人**: 好的，凯特琳·莫里森，非常感谢你今天做客我们的节目，带来如此真挚深刻的分享。
Original English **Host**: Yeah. Okay, Caitlin Morrison, thank you so much for joining us on the program.
**凯特琳·莫里森**: 这是我的荣幸，非常感谢你！今天的对话真的很棒。
Original English **Caitlin Morrison**: Well, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you. You know, this has been great.