---
author: All-In Podcast
date: '2026-10-15'
guest: ''
layout: post.njk
source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tAywoHiIpo
speaker: All-In Podcast
tags:
- fraud-trial
- white-collar-crime
- sentencing-guidelines
- crisis-management
- media-narrative
title: 专访伊丽莎白·霍姆斯的丈夫比利·埃文斯：硅谷惊天骗局背后的婚姻、真相与狱中现实
summary: 在All-In峰会上，Theranos创始人伊丽莎白·霍姆斯（Elizabeth Holmes）的丈夫比利·埃文斯（Billy Evans）首次接受公开直播专访。他首度详述两人相识相恋的经过、长达数年的庭审重压、生育两个孩子的抉择、霍姆斯被判135个月监禁与4.35亿美元赔偿的内幕、未公开纪录片的波折，以及真实的监狱生活细节与创业真相。
insight: ''
draft: true
series: ''
category: business-entrepreneurship
area: finance-wealth
project: []
people:
- Elizabeth Holmes
companies_orgs:
- Theranos
- Walgreens
products_models: []
media_books:
- Bad Blood
status: evergreen
---
### 序幕与直播开场
**旁白**: 作为**伊丽莎白·霍姆斯**（Elizabeth Holmes）的伴侣，即将上映的纪录片《你可以看到一切》（You Can See Everything）的主角，**比利·埃文斯**（Billy Evans）与他的未婚妻经历了一段非同寻常的爱情故事。两人最初相识时，联邦调查局正因霍姆斯失败的血液检测初创公司 **Theranos** 的欺诈和共谋指控对她展开刑事调查。
Original English
**Narrator**: Billy Evans, who is Elizabeth Holmes's partner, the subject of the forthcoming documentary you can see everything, has had an unconventional love story with her fiance Billy Evans. The couple first connected as federal authorities were investigating Holmes for fraud and conspiracy connected to her failed blood testing startup Theranos.
**新闻播报**: 一部全新纪录片前所未有地展现了科技公司 CEO 沦为重罪犯的伊丽莎白·霍姆斯的生活。她正处于一场历时数年的大规模欺诈案的核心。伊丽莎白·霍姆斯因四项刑事欺诈罪名被判处 11 年零 3 个月监禁。这位声名扫地的巨头和她的未婚夫比利·埃文斯……
Original English
**News Broadcast**: A new documentary is offering an unprecedented look into the life of Elizabeth Holmes, the tech CEO turned convicted felon. At the center of a massive multi-year fraud. Elizabeth Holmes was sentenced today to 11 and a quarter years in prison, four counts of criminal fraud. The disgraced tycoon and her fiance Billy Evans...
**主持人**: 让我们掌声欢迎比利·埃文斯！
Original English
**Host**: Please welcome Billy Evans.
**比利·埃文斯**: 欢迎！大家好，近来可好？
Original English
**Billy Evans**: What's up? Hi everyone.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 请坐。你以前接受过这样的现场直播访谈吗？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Welcome. Have a seat. Have you ever done a live interview like this?
**比利·埃文斯**: 兄弟，我这辈子从来没接受过任何采访。非常感谢大家今天愿意在这里当第一批“小白鼠”。我很感激，如果有什么不周之处也提前向大家致歉。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Dude, I've never done an interview. Thank you guys all for being the guinea pigs here. I appreciate it and apologies.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 你就是伊丽莎白·霍姆斯的丈夫？
Original English
**David Sacks**: You've never done an interview. You're Elizabeth Holmes's husband?
**比利·埃文斯**: 这通常可不是我喜欢的介绍方式。嗯，没错，我叫比利·埃文斯，是的，伊丽莎白·霍姆斯是我的妻子、最好的朋友和人生伴侣。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: That's typically not how I love to be introduced. Um yeah, my name's Billy Evans and yes, Elizabeth Holmes is my wife and best friend and partner.
### 派对偶遇与访谈契机
**大卫·萨克斯**: 你和我是在一个派对上认识的。我想大概是一年半前吧？
Original English
**David Sacks**: You and I met at a party. Um two a year and a half ago, I think.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的，我想是在 F1 赛车大奖赛期间，老实说……
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, around F1, I think in Honestly...
**大卫·萨克斯**: 没错，正是那时候。我们聊了起来，那次交谈让我们聊起了伊丽莎白、这起案件以及背后的历史。
Original English
**David Sacks**: Yeah, that's right. Um and we started talking and it that kind of got us kind of chatting about Elizabeth and the case and the history.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的，我记得当时我走到你面前说：“大卫，我叫比利·埃文斯。你们在播客里经常讨论我妻子，而且你们把整个故事的大部分关键事实都给彻底搞错了。所以，如果你有兴趣了解更多真实细节，我很乐意给你讲讲原委。”
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, I think I came up to you when I said David, my name's Billy Evans. Uh you guys talk about my wife a lot on your podcast. And you've got a lot of the story pretty fundamentally wrong. So, if you're ever interested in learning some more details, I'm happy to read you in.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 我当时喝了几杯酒，我说：“行啊，他挺不错的，我想听听这个故事。”
Original English
**David Sacks**: I'd had a couple drinks. I'm like, "Sure." I'll hear of the story.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 然后事情接二连三地发展，我们在电话上聊了聊，最后我坐飞机去了德克萨斯州。我直接去监狱探望了伊丽莎白。我和她、你、她的父母以及孩子们共度了一整天，非常深入地了解了整个事件的来龙去脉。我发现这背后有很多故事，远比媒体以往所描绘的要复杂得多。当时我也知道这部纪录片的存在。我在好莱坞听说过有这部纪录片正在筹备，而且听说它……
Original English
**David Sacks**: And one thing led to another, we talked on the phone, and I ended up getting on a plane to Texas. And I went and visited Elizabeth in prison. I spent the day with her and you, and her parents, and the kids going quite deep into the whole thing, and there was a lot more to the story than what I think had been portrayed. And I was aware of the documentary. I had heard in Hollywood that this documentary was happening. And I had heard that it...
**比利·埃文斯**: 但它一直是一个保密非常严格的项目。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: But it was a pretty well-kept secret.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 是的，不过我有些行业人脉。
Original English
**David Sacks**: Yeah, but I I know people.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是啊，我毫不怀疑，看看今天台下的人群就知道了。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, well, I don't doubt it. Look at the crowd.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 没错。总之秘密终于公开了，我们稍后会细聊这个。我们今天并不打算重新审理 Theranos 这起诉讼案。那是伊丽莎白自己的故事，等时机成熟时应该由她自己来讲述。而且她在去年四月之前一直受到**禁言令**（Gag Order）的严格限制。
Original English
**David Sacks**: Yeah. And well, so the secret got out. I want to get to that. We're not going to litigate the case today, the Theranos case. That's Elizabeth's story to tell when the time is right. And she was under a gag order until last April.
**比利·埃文斯**: 没错。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 从美国司法部展开刑事调查那一刻起，伊丽莎白就处于法庭禁言令的严密约束之下，贯穿了整个初审以及直到去年四月结束的上诉程序。
Original English
**David Sacks**: So from the time that the DOJ began their investigation, Elizabeth was under a gag order through the trial and through the appeals process, which ended last April, I believe.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的。关于她，有一点外界可能感到非常震惊：伊丽莎白对待规则具有一种近乎偏执的狂热服从，每一个细节都一丝不苟地严格执行。所以当法官明确要求“这起案子只能在法庭内辩论，绝不能在媒体上发酵”时，她彻底坚守了这一诺言。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, so one thing for people to know about her, which might shock you, is that Elizabeth follows rules maniacally, like to a T. So when the judge said that we are going to litigate this court in the courtroom and not in the media, she held true to that.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 但她从未接受过媒体采访。
Original English
**David Sacks**: But she never spoke to the media.
**比利·埃文斯**: 没有，在整个漫长的司法过程中，她始终保持了完全的沉默。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: No, for for the entirety of the process. She remained silent.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 与此同时，外界却涌现了无数针对她的大肆报道。
Original English
**David Sacks**: a lot of articles being written.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是啊，甚至被拍成了好莱坞影视剧、制作了各种播客节目。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, and movies being made and podcasts.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 好的。虽然今天我们不会去重新探讨案情本身的细节，但我非常好奇你们所经历的这段真实历程。或许我们可以把时间拨回最初：你和伊丽莎白最早究竟是怎么相识的？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Um So, you know, there's a lot to the story which we're not going to talk about today, the trial and the case. But I'm curious to hear a little bit about the experience. Okay, so maybe we can go back. How did you and Elizabeth first meet?
### 旧金山舰队周顶楼初遇
**比利·埃文斯**: 好的。我和伊丽莎白是在旧金山**舰队周**（Fleet Week）的一个派对上相识的，地点在某位风险投资家的屋顶露台。那位投资人当时正试图聘请我加入他的机构，同时还在追求伊丽莎白。我当时本来只打算在那里逗留大概五分钟。因为我和另外四个合租的男生准备在我们租的房子里举办一场规模盛大的舰队周派对，有一百号人正要过来。
当我出门去买冰块时，那位投资人打电话给我：“比利，你今天会来我们露台这边转转吗？”我说：“当然去。”其实我当时早就忘得一干二净了。于是我开车赶过去，把车直接违章停在路边的红线上，坐电梯上了顶楼。几分钟后，他把我介绍给了伊丽莎白。
结果，我整个下午的计划全被彻底打破了。在接下来的两三个小时里，我和她聊个不停，开启了一场仿佛永远不会结束的对话。我不知道能不能说自己在那一瞬间就坠入了爱河，但她真的令人惊叹。她那种全神贯注倾听并真正关心你说的每一句话的能力，会让你觉得自己被无比真切地看见了。她对那些常人根本不在乎、甚至觉得装作不在乎才够酷的微小琐事，抱有无穷无尽的好奇心。当海军战机从头顶轰鸣掠过时，她抬头仰望，眼中闪烁着孩童般纯粹的惊奇。
初见时，我根本不知道她就是大名鼎鼎的伊丽莎白·霍姆斯。对我而言，她只是伊丽莎白。她戴着一顶宽边软帽和大号深色墨镜，脸上还贴着创可贴，因为她养的小哈士奇刚把她的脸抓伤了。聊到一半时，话题转向了我们各自的办公地点。我告诉她我在佩奇米尔路（Page Mill Road）上班。她惊讶地说：“不会吧，门牌号是多少？”我说：“1891号。”她说：“我好像在 1790 号。”她居然就在我两栋楼之外！直到那一刻，我才把所有的线索拼凑在一起，恍然大悟。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah. Um Elizabeth and I met at a Fleet Week party in San Francisco on the roof of some venture capitalist. He was trying to hire me and date her. Um I was going to be there for like maybe 5 minutes. I had 100 people coming over to a house I lived in with four other guys and we were going to throw a big Fleet Week party. And he called me when I went out to go grab ice and he said, "Billy, you know, are you coming by our event today?" I said, "Of course." I totally forgotten. So, I drove over to his place, I parked my car in the red, I went up the elevator, and few minutes later, he introduced me to Elizabeth. And that killed my whole afternoon. I mean, the next, I don't know, two and a half, three hours, uh, her and I just spoke and we started a conversation that really has never ended. Um, and I don't know if I can say I fell in love with her in that moment, but she was just incredible. Her ability to listen and really care about everything that you're saying. She made you feel so seen. She was infinitely curious about the smallest things that nobody else really cared about or too you know, cool to to pretend like it mattered. Um, as the planes flew overhead, she was just amazed by them with this like childlike wonder. And when I first met her, I didn't know she was Elizabeth Holmes. She was just Elizabeth. She was wearing a big floppy hat and dark sunglasses and had a band-aid on her face because her puppy husky had just scratched her and some way through the middle of the conversation, it turned to where we worked, like physically. And I told her that I worked on Page Mill Road. She said, "Oh, no way, where?" I said, "The 1891." And she said, you know, "I'm 1790" or something. She was two doors down and then that's when I really put it together.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 那是哪一年？当时 Theranos 的处境处于什么状态？
Original English
**David Sacks**: And what was What year was this and what was the state of the Theranos story at that point?
**比利·埃文斯**: 我们初次见面是在 2017 年 10 月 7 日。当时整个事件已经处于最糟糕的谷底峰值。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, so this was October 7th of 2017 that we first met. Um, it was peak like bad.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 所以那是在司法部正式提起公诉之前？
Original English
**David Sacks**: So, this was after the DOJ the case
**比利·埃文斯**: 是在她被正式起诉之前。约翰·卡雷鲁（John Carreyrou）的一系列爆料调查报道机器已经全面开动了。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: It was before she was indicted. Before she was indicted. Yeah. It was the Carreyrou article machine had started.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 已经有成百上千篇负面报道铺天盖地。
Original English
**David Sacks**: a hundred of them. Those were already out there.
**比利·埃文斯**: 那些报道早已家喻户晓，所以她当时背负着极其恶劣的名声。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: They had been out there. So, she had this reputation
**大卫·萨克斯**: 极其糟糕的声誉。
Original English
**David Sacks**: A horrible reputation.
**比利·埃文斯**: 比如“大骗子”之类的各种污名。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Fraudster, all this sort of stuff. Yes.
### 从普通朋友到突遭起诉
**大卫·萨克斯**: 这么说，当你最初认识她时，完全是被她本人的性格特质所吸引？
Original English
**David Sacks**: And so, you're saying that when you first met her, it was her, who she is, that you kind of fell for?
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的。就像我在这场活动中与现场结识的三四十个人交流一样，你首先面对的是眼前这个真实具体的人。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, I mean, it's like the, you know, 30 people that I've spoken to while I've been here.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 那么，当你意识到她究竟是谁时，你难道没有心生退意，暗自嘀咕“我到底在跟什么人打交道”吗？
Original English
**David Sacks**: So, then when you found out who she really was, you not just shut down and say, "What am I doing talking to her?"
**比利·埃文斯**: 那确实非常难以理解和消化。要跨过那道心理坎极其艰难，因为你眼前亲身体验到的这个人，与报纸电视上被大肆渲染的那个妖魔化形象之间，存在着无比巨大的鸿沟。而且我们并不是立马就开始约会了。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: pretty hard to grok. I mean, it was like a hard thing to come to terms with, because you're... we didn't like just start dating, you know, like I met her, and then there was um you know...
**大卫·萨克斯**: 你们后来是怎么开始经常见面的？
Original English
**David Sacks**: did you guys start hanging out?
**比利·埃文斯**: 初次见面时，她提到她养了一只小哈士奇，我告诉她我有一只爱尔兰猎狼犬。这成了我们互动的切入点。在随后的整整六个月里，我们只是纯粹的朋友关系。我们会一起去散步，带着她的小狗和我的小猎狼犬一起遛狗。我当时其实非常好奇，极度渴望搞清楚我亲身感受到的真实伊丽莎白，与公众舆论场中那个被口诛笔伐的伊丽莎白之间，到底存在着怎样的真相。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, so when I first met her, she told me that she had this husky. And I told her I had an Irish Wolfhound puppy. that put me off at the time. You're curious to understand what's going on. I think I was most curious to understand the difference between the person that I experienced and the person in the public. But basically, we were friends for 6 months. We'd go on walks um with her dog and my little wolfhound.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 然后你们的关系发生了浪漫的转折？
Original English
**David Sacks**: And then there was a romantic turn.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的，而且发展得异常迅速。原本我们只是好友，我当时在一家自动驾驶科技公司负责运营，经常出差去世界各地，专门负责解决 CEO 不愿插手处理的最棘手难题。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, and and it moved super quickly. Like, it went from us being friends I was traveling a lot for work. Uh I was just solving the most important problems CEO didn't want to solve.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 于是你们的关系逐渐变得严肃，情感深厚。而她当时正处于人生的巨大危机之中。
Original English
**David Sacks**: So, you guys kind of this becomes more serious, becomes emotional, and she's going through a period of crisis in her life during this kind of courtship period?
**比利·埃文斯**: 就在我们确立恋爱关系大约三周后，她就被联邦大陪审团正式起诉了！那种剧烈转折简直令人窒息。但她本人的表现却极其镇定自若，沉着得就像黄瓜一样冷峻。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, I think like 3 weeks after we started dating, she got indicted. I mean, it's like crazy. She is like cool as a cucumber.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 在起诉前各种丑闻报道铺天盖地时，她难道完全没有陷入惊慌失措吗？
Original English
**David Sacks**: So, while this was happening, all the articles are coming out before the indictment, she wasn't freaking out?
**比利·埃文斯**: 当然有令人心惊肉跳的时刻，但你必须设身处地去理解她的视角。整件事情的发展完全偏离了她的初衷。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: No, I mean, there's certainly things to be freaked out about, but you have to put yourself in her shoes. It wasn't supposed to go this way. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a good way of describing it.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 然后起诉书正式下达，那是怎样的情形？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Um, and then she gets indicted. How was that?
**比利·埃文斯**: 起诉公布的当晚，正是我第一次去见她父母的日子。那真是我经历过的最残酷艰难的“见岳父岳母”的方式。面对无休止的负面新闻轰炸，她从来不看任何媒体报道。我个人也从不看关于她的影视八卦，我只是在律师的强烈建议下草草翻阅了《**坏血**》（Bad Blood）那本书。
当时我们才刚确立恋爱关系三周，但因为每天共同经历这种常人无法想象的重压，我们彼此的心灵已经贴得极其紧密。那段日子真的太激烈了。坦率讲，如果当时我就拥有现在的阅历，预知到后面会长达数年要承受这样不可承受的重负，我不知道自己还有没有勇气义无反顾地陷进去。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: that's the first night I met her parents. Like, it's tough way to meet your in-laws. of infinite press. But, she wouldn't read it. You know, we like I've seen, I don't know... No, but I like you know, I I skimmed Bad Blood because like my lawyers told me to for obvious reasons. I was three weeks into a relationship with somebody. But, we were so close already because of the intensity of the situation. It was intense, man. I mean, I I think part of it is it if I knew what I know now, like what we were getting into for years to come, it might have been a different story.
### 黑色高领衫、沃格林与决定生育
**大卫·萨克斯**: 然后就到了准备庭审的阶段。
Original English
**David Sacks**: Yeah. And then the trial began.
**比利·埃文斯**: 距离正式开庭还隔了相当长的一段时间。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Well, it took a while for the trial.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 没错，中间经历了漫长的疫情推迟。当时公众舆论对伊丽莎白的形象有各种戏剧性的描摹：穿**黑色高领衫**、故意压低嗓音说话，树立这种近乎神话般的硅谷救世主形象。
Original English
**David Sacks**: Right, cuz there was... There was this period of time when everyone talked about Elizabeth Holmes being in wearing the turtleneck and talking with a deep voice and having this kind of persona.
**比利·埃文斯**: 外界对这些细节有太多捕风捉影的说法，很多东西如果还原到当时的情境，根本不是外界脑补的那样。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: lot of things that have been said about that and some of them, I think if you just look at the reality, it's very different.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 比如 Theranos 与连锁药房 **沃格林**（Walgreens）的合作，关于事实到底是如何被夸大或失真的？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Okay. Um but then there's these stories about things that were misrepresented. The Walgreens deal, for instance.
**比利·埃文斯**: 这是个好问题。在很多时候，人们是把远期愿景直接当成了既定现实。伊丽莎白是一个极度深信自己使命的人。当时他们已经签署了在 800 家沃格林门店推广血液检测中心的合作合同，单店投资成本达到上百万美元。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: That's a good question. Where the imagination became the reality. Liz is somebody who like so deeply believes in what she's building. It's like 800 Walgreens stores. I'm a million dollars store. had done this contract to do that. Yeah, and they did...
**大卫·萨克斯**: 但卡雷鲁的调查报道发表后，沃格林全面终止了合作。
Original English
**David Sacks**: And Walgreens stopped doing that after the Carreyrou article came out.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的，合作随后被叫停了。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: That's right. Yeah.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 之后你们进入了庭审筹备期。在这期间，外界有许多议论：在面临如此严重的刑事审判背景下，你们选择生儿育女。这在当时是否经过激烈的内部讨论？
Original English
**David Sacks**: You guys then start going through this process of preparing for the trial. Did she get... knowing that there was this trial coming up. Was that ever a debate or a discussion?
**比利·埃文斯**: 我先澄清一点：这绝非外界冷血揣测的那种“精心策划用于博取法官同情”的策略，绝对不是！生活有时就是自然而然地发生了。我们的儿子出生于 2021 年 7 月 10 日。成为父亲，是我生命中体会过的最美妙、最珍贵的体验。我们现在有两个孩子，儿子五岁，女儿三岁。
带着两个牙牙学语的小宝贝去经历一场决定生死的刑事审判，那种艰难困苦简直痛彻心扉。外界无数人造谣说生孩子是为了逃避刑罚，但只有我们自己清楚要一边换尿布一边出庭抗辩是多么残酷。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: not like a planned and decided thing, just to be clear, okay? You know, sometimes life happens. Um and I mean, it's been the greatest experience that I'll ever know. We have two children, yeah. So, my son uh is now five. And my daughter's three. It was so gnarly. Like you know, anybody so many people say, you know, the reason was to delay the trial or get sympathy. It was brutal.
### 庭审罪名与金融欺诈内幕
**大卫·萨克斯**: 在开庭前，你们内心深处坚信自己会赢下这场官司吗？
Original English
**David Sacks**: You guys think you were going to win the case?
**比利·埃文斯**: 百分之百坚信。毫无疑问是 100%。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: 100%. Yeah. 100%.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 最终陪审团裁决的结果是，她被指控的大多数罪名其实并不成立，只在少数几项罪名上被定罪。
Original English
**David Sacks**: There was only a few counts that she was convicted on. She was found not guilty of most of them.
**比利·埃文斯**: 没错，最基本的数据计算是这样的：检方最初提起了 13 项重罪指控。在 Theranos 的运营历史上，他们总共为全美真实患者执行了超过 **1250 万次血液检测**。这绝不是一个小数目，在全美仅次于行业双雄 Quest Diagnostics 和 LabCorp，如果再给他们一年时间，其检测体量将超越这两家巨头。
在面对数百万患者的指控中，关于“患者欺诈”（Patient Fraud）的所有罪名——即指控她蓄意向患者提供虚假欺骗性检测结果并危及生命的指控——陪审团裁定全都不成立，或者宣布无罪！
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, so the basic math on it is that there was 13 counts. Um Liz ran about 12 and 1/2 million blood tests on patients. Yeah, it's not like a small number. It's a pretty big number in a short period of time. After Quest and LabCorp. Yeah. And the year after that they would have been bigger than either of them. Oh, the counts. Yeah, so there was 13 counts um of the 12 and 1/2 million tests on patients, she was acquitted of all patient fraud. Patient fraud. Yeah, patient fraud. So, like you gave this person a bad result, you knowingly gave them a bad result, she was acquitted or there was a hung jury.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 她最终被定罪的是针对投资人的金融欺诈。
Original English
**David Sacks**: was she was convicted of financial fraud.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的，她最终仅仅被裁定在针对三名投资者的欺诈罪名，以及一项投资者共谋欺诈罪上成立。
而正是这项“共谋指控”（Conspiracy），赋予了主审法官极其巨大的自由量量刑权限。在法庭判决中，检方甚至在定罪后把**鲁珀特·默多克**（Rupert Murdoch）等人列入所谓的受害者损失名单，从而大幅推高了联邦量刑指南中的损失金额阶梯，最终导致她被判处不可思议的 135 个月监禁——整整 11 年零 3 个月！
Original English
**Billy Evans**: She was, yeah. So, she was convicted of defrauding three investors um and then conspiracy to commit wire fraud against investors. And the conspiracy conviction is what gave the judge the authority to give her a massive sentence. Coupled with the fact that they brought in Rupert Murdoch as a victim after the trial to calculate loss, which allowed them to also add additional time to the to the sentencing guidelines. Yes, so context, Elizabeth was sentenced to 135 months in prison. Uh that's 11 and a quarter years.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 如果真实的故事有着如此截然不同的面向，为什么她当初不在法庭和公众面前彻底把一切讲出来？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Why didn't she tell it? Like cuz if there's such a different story and you guys felt you were going to win, why didn't she tell it?
**比利·埃文斯**: 我想非常精确地讲明这一点：伊丽莎白是一个极度具有理想主义情怀的人，她在一个非常正统的家庭长大，从小被灌输的信念就是必须无条件信奉并尊重美国的司法制度。她拒绝通过媒体审判去操弄公众情绪，她认定法官要求在法庭内解决争议的指令是神圣的。她天真地坚信只要遵守规则，事实就会证明一切。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, so I want to be really specific because I know like a million people are going to analyze this. She felt like she didn't want to risk going through the court process and manipulating the media. Yeah, and she's a really idealistic person. You know, she grew up in a household where you follow the rules and the system works.
### 形象谜团与监狱突如其来的来电
**大卫·萨克斯**: 我必须替所有人问一个大家津津乐道的问题：她当年为什么要执着于穿黑色高领毛衣，并且故意用那么低沉的嗓音说话？我见过她，她的声音并没有外界模仿的那么夸张。
Original English
**David Sacks**: I have to ask because and I tried earlier but I I'm going to get in trouble if I don't ask. Why did she wear the black turtleneck? And speak in the deep voice. I've met her. She has a deep voice, but why the black turtleneck? Tell me about the experience you heard from her about being a young female CEO in Silicon Valley.
**比利·埃文斯**: 这确实是一个非常沉重的话题，我只能简要触及，因为归根结底这是属于她自己的人生经历……抱歉，我想可能是她的电话打进来了。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, I mean it's a really heavy subject and I'll touch on it briefly but again this is like her story to tell. Um I think this is probably her calling. Sorry.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 能外放免提吗？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Put her on speaker?
**比利·埃文斯**: 联邦监狱管理局（BOP）对这个管得极严！大家介意我花一秒钟接个电话跟她说声嗨吗？因为她身在联邦监狱，我根本无法回拨给她。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: I think the BOP would have something to say about that. Do you guys mind if I just say hi for one second? I can't call her back because she's in federal prison.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 允许免提公开放音吗？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Are you allowed to put her on speaker?
**比利·埃文斯**: 绝对不行！如果外放，她会被直接关进 SHU——也就是单人隔离禁闭室（Solitary Housing Unit），那是个极其非人道的可怕地方。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: No, like really she'll get sent to the shoe. That's the solitary housing unit. It's not a nice place to be.
**电话系统自动语音**: “接听此通话请按……本通话及今后所有通话均受到监控与录音……”
Original English
**Automated Prison Voice**: To accept this call... this call and all future...
**比利·埃文斯**: 我向天发誓，这绝对不是事先安排好的戏码！
喂，宝贝！我得马上挂了，我现在正站在台上，面对着台下成百上千的观众。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: This is what I hear every time she calls me. I swear to God this was not planned. No. Hey baby. And then hang up. I'm on stage right now in front of a bunch of people.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 我能跟她说声问候吗？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Can I say hi?
**比利·埃文斯**: 戴夫想向你问好，你没被开免提，别担心，我绝不会让你陷入任何麻烦。我全心全意爱着你。现场有几千名观众呢。我们正在跟大卫聊天。好的，宝贝，我们稍后再聊。再见。
那就是她本人。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah. Can Dave say hi? You're not on speaker phone or anything. Don't worry. I'm not going to get you in trouble. So the context is we've got 500 people here... there's thousands of people here. We're just talking to Billy. Okay. We'll talk soon. Bye. That's actually her. I miss you. We'll talk soon, okay, baby. Okay, bye.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 这场面真是太令人震撼了。
Original English
**David Sacks**: That was crazy.
### 狱中现实与纪录片的诞生
**大卫·萨克斯**: 自从她入狱服刑以来，孩子们和你过着怎样的生活？那种日子究竟是什么滋味？
Original English
**David Sacks**: What's it been like um since she's gone in for the kids, for you? What's it like?
**比利·埃文斯**: 我必须先声明，在全美成千上万骨肉分离的家庭中，我的遭遇绝非个例。但对于两个幼小的孩子来说，这太艰难了。当她最初去监狱报到时，我的儿子才只有 22 个月大。最开始我们只能骗他说：“这是妈妈上班工作的地方。”后来随着他们渐渐长大，解释这一切变得越来越复杂痛苦。
而在她离家入狱的那一天，我们决定不让两个孩子在现场送别，因为那种生离死别的场景对幼小的孩子而言实在太具有毁灭性了。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: I mean, first of all, I am not unique in going through the process of having a loved one incarcerated. but to start it was just this is mommy's work. He was 22 months old when she went in. So, my kids weren't there when she surrendered. We thought it would be too emotional for them.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 谈谈那部即将推出的纪录片吧。它是如何成型的？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Tell me about the documentary. How did it come about?
**比利·埃文斯**: 大家都看过预告片了吧？当时之所以同意拍摄，背景是伊丽莎白正面临着 11 年的漫长刑期，而在法律层面上，受制于禁言令，她无法在任何公开场合为案情辩护。我们希望能留下真实的记录，让世人看到一个剥离了媒体污名化标签后的、真实的她。在那种承受着极限心理重压的绝境中，我们向镜头敞开了家庭的真实生活。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, pretty crazy, huh? Everyone's seen the trailer. The context is that Elizabeth is facing an 11-year sentence. practically at this time she wasn't allowed to talk about the case, so she again couldn't defend herself publicly. It was one of the most stressful times imaginable. Liz had given birth. You know it was to have people see who she is because I've gone through this reality of knowing the real person.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 拍摄过程感觉如何？据我所知，这个项目已经拖延了整整三年，为什么耗时这么久？
Original English
**David Sacks**: How do you think it went? and it's been 3 years. So why is it taking so long? Are you worried about it?
**比利·埃文斯**: 原计划是在判决后一年内上映的，但制作方一拖就是三年。你问我是否担心成片的剪辑？看看他们剪出的预告片吧，配上那种阴森夸张的背景音乐，她看起来简直像个疯子！媒体和影视制作方为了收割眼球流量，似乎永远都在迎合外界最刻板的偏见叙事。但我经历过太多超现实的极端磨难了，如今早已对外界的评价产生了免疫力。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: It was supposed to come out within a year of the trial. So it's been 3 years. Yeah, it's a long time, man. You look at the trailer. Yeah, she looks insane. She looks insane and it's like it's just reinforcing the narrative. Especially the music. Am I nervous? You know, I've been through so many intense surreal experiences that you just have to accept what comes.
### 4.35亿美元赔偿与严酷的监禁日常
**大卫·萨克斯**: 伊丽莎白目前的刑期现状如何？她还要在里面呆多久？
Original English
**David Sacks**: What's the status with Elizabeth in prison? How much longer does she have? How much time does she actually serve?
**比利·埃文斯**: 联邦监狱系统关于减刑积分和实际服刑时长的计算公式极其繁琐晦涩。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, um It's a really confusing process understanding what they call the calculations.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 当我去德州监狱探望她时，有一件事让我深受震撼：当你往她的监狱小卖部账户里充值生活费时，**其中 70% 的资金会被系统直接强行划扣没收**！
Original English
**David Sacks**: You know, one of the most remarkable things for me was when I went to visit in Texas, that when you send money for commissary to her, 70% of it gets taken away.
**比利·埃文斯**: 是的，70% 会被直接抽走，因为法庭判定她连带背负着高达 **4.35 亿美元**的巨额刑事赔偿金！
而在这笔巨额债务中，有超过 3.5 亿美元是归属于在审判结束后才被检方追加进来的巨富家族投资者——比如德沃斯（DeVos）家族、沃尔玛背后的沃尔顿（Walton）家族以及希腊船王家族尼亚科斯（Niarchos）。把这些超级富豪投资人的损失强行打包计入，不仅让她的刑期暴增，更在实际上剥夺了她在狱中维持基本体面生活的能力。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, 70% of it gets taken away because she owes $435 million in restitution. And of that, which is important to note, less than $100 million was from the counts she was convicted of. The rest was brought in from investors like the DeVos family and the Waltons and the Niarchos. It increased the loss amount dramatically, which increased her sentence, and makes it impossible to even buy basic food at the commissary.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 这意味着她甚至无法在小卖部买到足够的健康食物。
Original English
**David Sacks**: She can't like buy food and stuff at the commissary. It seems like it's brutal.
**比利·埃文斯**: 她在里面吃得少得像只小松鼠。我去探视时，甚至花光了身上所有的现金，在自动售货机里买小吃坚果给她补充营养。那座女子监狱关押着 800 多名女性服刑人员，但在周末探访日，整间探视室里常常空空荡荡，极度冷清悲凉。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, she eats like a squirrel. I spent all the money I had on vending machine trail mix. The saddest thing to me is there's 800 women in the facility and on a given weekend, hardly anyone has visitors.
### “Theranos 2.0”流言与光谱创业真相
**大卫·萨克斯**: 在我们结束之前，还有最后一个问题：媒体最近大肆报道你正在创办所谓的“Theranos 2.0”初创公司。这到底是怎么回事？你是为了伊丽莎白而做这件事吗？
Original English
**David Sacks**: Just real quick as we wrap. People in the press have been reporting that you're running some kind of "Theranos 2.0". How did you get into this? Is it an Elizabeth thing that you're doing this for?
**比利·埃文斯**: 媒体炒作简直荒诞不经。我的专业背景一直在先进光学和光子学领域。我早年曾参与创立了激光雷达公司 **Luminar**，我们开发的是基于拉曼光谱学（Raman Spectroscopy）的高精度化学物质检测仪器，广泛应用于环境与材料检测等多个前沿工业领域。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Yeah, so my background's in the photonics space. I helped build a company called Luminar. What we're doing is chemical detection using Raman spectroscopy that can be used broadly across different techniques.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 所以媒体所谓“霍姆斯的丈夫正在搞 Theranos 2.0 血液检测”纯粹是标题党？
Original English
**David Sacks**: And so, the Theranos 2.0 story may be a bit of a press fabrication?
**比利·埃文斯**: 当然！你想想看，在新闻媒体眼里，“比利正在研发精密拉曼光谱仪”这种标题谁会点击阅读？但只要冠上“伊丽莎白·霍姆斯的丈夫暗中复活 Theranos 2.0 骗局”，点击率瞬间就会引爆。媒体为了制造猎奇热点，完全无视客观物理常识。
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Exactly. What sells more? "Billy builds Raman spectroscopy devices"? That doesn't exactly drive clicks. So, it's a lot easier to make it seem like Elizabeth's husband is resurrecting Theranos 2.0.
**大卫·萨克斯**: 好的，比利，非常感谢你今天鼓起勇气坐在这里与我们坦诚交流。
Original English
**David Sacks**: Well, look, I appreciate you being with us today, Billy. Thanks for being here.
**比利·埃文斯**: 我心中有千言万语，但我最想表达的只有一句：由衷感谢大家的宽容与倾听。兄弟，非常感谢你！
Original English
**Billy Evans**: Gosh, you know, there's so many things that I want to say, but I just want to say thank you guys for listening. I really appreciate it. Thank you, bro. Appreciate it.