--- author: TVO Today date: '2026-05-06' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw4PS3Bvx7E speaker: TVO Today tags: - indigenous-issues - historical-trauma - truth-and-reconciliation - mmiwg - cultural-representation title: 保护原住民教育营证词与纪念失踪案：儿童读物与历史真相 summary: 本访谈深入探讨了在原住民教育营记录将被销毁之际，保存幸存者证词的关键举措，并强调了其与失踪及被谋杀原住民女性（MMIWG）危机的联系。同时，我们采访了儿童读物《Tessa's Red Dress》的作者Carolyn Roberts，该书以儿童视角介绍了红裙日、原住民文化及MMIWG危机，着重于原住民视角和创伤知情对话。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: politics-society area: society-thinking project: [] people: - Connie Walker - Carolyn Roberts companies_orgs: - Supreme Court of Canada - Toronto Metropolitan University - National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation products_models: - Red Dress Project - The Rundown - Stolen Surviving Saint Michael's media_books: - Tessa's Red Dress status: evergreen --- ### Red Dress Day and the Crisis of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women **旁白**: 人们很好奇，无论他们是否对艺术感兴趣。他们很好奇。他们想知道为什么到处都是这些空荡荡的连衣裙。而且，你知道，这为我们提供了一个机会，开始解释你知道的，加拿大各地许多原住民社区所面临的问题。
Original English **旁白**: People are curious, you know, whether they're interested in art or not. They're curious. They want to know why these empty dresses are everywhere. And, you know, that opens the door for us to begin explaining what you know, a lot of indigenous communities are facing across Canada.
**旁白**: 那是梅蒂斯艺术家 **Jamie Black** 在讨论她的 **Red Dress Project**（红裙项目），该项目旨在提请人们关注**失踪及被谋杀原住民女性、女孩和双灵人士**（MMIWG）的问题。自 2010 年以来，红裙一直在加拿大各地展出，你今天可能已经看到它们了。这是因为 5 月 5 日是全国性的意识和纪念日。它更广为人知的名称是 **Red Dress Day**（红裙日），它凸显了一个全国性的危机。根据加拿大统计局的数据，在 2009 年至 2021 年间，有 490 名原住民妇女和女孩死于凶杀，其比例是非原住民人口的六倍。这是一个艰难但重要的话题。那么，你该如何向孩子们解释呢？我们采访了一本介绍年轻读者了解红裙日及其意义的新书的作者。但首先，近 4000 起印第安寄宿学校虐待事件的记录将于 2027 年 9 月前被销毁。我们来关注一项旨在发出警报并创建新档案馆的倡议。欢迎收听 **The Rundown**。
Original English **旁白**: That was Metis artist Jamie Black discussing her red dress project, which draws attention to the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and two spirit people. Since 2010, red dresses have been displayed across Canada, and you may have seen them today. That's because May 5th is a national day of awareness and remembrance. It's more commonly known as Red Dress Day, and it highlights a national crisis. According to Statistics Canada, between 2009 and 2021, 490 indigenous women and girls were the victims of homicide, a rate six times higher than non-Indigenous people. It's a difficult topic, but it's also an important one. So how do you explain it to children? We talked to the author of a new book that introduces young readers to what Red Dress Day is and what it means. But first, almost 4000 accounts of abuse at Indian residential schools are set to be destroyed by September 2027. We look at an initiative trying to sound the alarm and create a new archive. This is The Rundown.
### 保护原住民寄宿学校幸存者证词 **旁白**: 2017 年，**加拿大最高法院** 裁定，除非幸存者选择保存，否则成千上万起寄宿学校虐待事件的证词将被销毁。他们给了幸存者十年的时间窗口，让他们站出来，而这个截止日期就在明年。但许多人并不知道这个迫在眉睫的最后期限。一项新的倡议正在试图提高认识并建立一个新的国家档案馆。普利策奖得主、调查记者 **Connie Walker** 加入我们。Connie，你好吗？
Original English **旁白**: In 2017, the Supreme Court ruled thousands of stories of residential school abuse would be destroyed unless survivors chose to preserve them. They gave survivors a ten year window to come forward, and that date is coming next year. But many don't know about the looming deadline. Enter a new initiative that is trying to raise awareness and set up a new national archive. Pulitzer prize winner and investigative journalist Connie Walker joins us in studio. How are you doing, Connie?
**Connie Walker**: 我很好，谢谢。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> I'm well, thank you.
**旁白**: 好的。让我们来谈谈 **多伦多都会大学**（TMU）的印第安寄宿学校记录项目。这个项目具体是什么？
Original English **旁白**: >> All right. Let's talk about the Indian Residential School Records project at TMU Toronto Metropolitan University. What exactly is the project?
**Connie Walker**: 这个项目是我们试图尽可能多地保存幸存者的证词。我认为，印第安寄宿学校的幸存者们，为了被相信他们所经历的事情，并为了让他们的声音被听到，已经奋斗了很长时间。这是我们尽最大努力保存这些信息的一种尝试，以便我们不会忘记在印第安寄宿学校发生的事情。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> The project is our attempt to try to preserve as much survivor testimony as we can. Survivors of Indian residential schools, I think, fought for for a long time to be believed about what they experienced in residential schools, and then really fought to have their voices heard. And this is our attempt to try to preserve as much of that as we possibly can in order to to, you know, not forget what happened in Indian residential schools.
**旁白**: 我想澄清一点。与**真相与和解委员会**（TRC）收集的、正在被永久存档的证词不同，这些记录，为什么它们要被销毁？这些是**独立评估程序**（IAP）的一部分，与公众所见的TRC证词略有不同。
Original English **旁白**: >> I want a point of clarification. Unlike the testimonies gathered in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which are being permanently archived, these records, why are they being destroyed? These are part of the independent assessment process, a little bit different than the public facing TRC testimonies.
**Connie Walker**: 是的，这确实有点令人困惑，我认为很多人会感到困惑，因为幸存者讲述他们故事的方式有不同的途径。所以，TRC 的工作无疑极其重要，他们收集的证词将在**国家真相与和解中心**存档。但很多人并不知道的是，TRC 在全国各地进行了六年的旅行。他们举行了全国性的集会，社区集会，在这六年里，他们记录了 6000 多份证词，主要是来自印第安寄宿学校的幸存者。但同时，还有另一个过程，在某种程度上是并行发生的，那就是想要获得寄宿学校虐待赔偿的幸存者参加了这些听证会，称为独立评估听证会。参与 IAP 的幸存者人数是 TRC 听证会的六倍多。仅仅为了说明数量，这仍然是现存最全面的幸存者证词档案。它是通过 IAP 记录的。而且，你知道，它是寄宿学校和解协议的一部分，这些听证会是保密的，幸存者参加了，但很少有这些听证会的信息被公开，当然，也没有任何幸存者的证词。而这些记录将在 2027 年被加拿大最高法院下令销毁。我正在进行的印第安寄宿学校记录项目独立于这两个档案。所以，我们正在尝试做的是，从导致寄宿学校和解协议的诉讼中创建另一套档案。我认为这项工作特别紧迫，因为 IAP 的记录，这个最全面的档案，即将被销毁。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> Yeah, it is a little bit confusing, and I think a lot of people do get confused because of the different ways in which survivors have told their stories. So obviously the work of the TRC is incredibly important, and the testimonies that they gathered will be archived at the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation. But something that a lot of people don't really know is, is that, you know, the TRC travelled across the country for six years. They held national gatherings, they held community gatherings, and in those six years, they recorded just over 6000 testimonies, largely of Indian residential school survivors. But there was another process that was was happening almost concurrently, in some ways, where survivors who wanted to receive compensation for abuse in residential schools participated in these hearings, called the independent assessment hearings. And more than six times more survivors participated in the IAP than the TRC hearings. Just to give some context of the volume, and that remains the most comprehensive archive that exists of survivor testimony. It was recorded through the IAP. And because, you know, it was part of the residential school settlement agreement, these were confidential hearings that survivors participated in, and very little information from those hearings has ever been made public, certainly not any survivor testimony. And those are the records that are going to be destroyed in 2027 by order of the Supreme Court of Canada, the Indian Residential School records project that I'm working on is separate from both of those archives. So what we what we are attempting to do is, is create another set of archives from the lawsuits that survivors filed that led to the residential school settlement agreement. And I think that work feels particularly urgent because the IAP records, the most comprehensive archive, is about to be destroyed.
**旁白**: 告诉我，显然，不涉及太多细节，但这些故事和声音是谁的？
Original English **旁白**: >> Tell me about obviously, without going into too much of the details, but whose stories and whose voices are being captured in some of these?
**Connie Walker**: 是的。嗯，你知道，有超过 15 万名原住民儿童，包括第一民族、因纽特人和梅蒂斯孩子，他们上过寄宿学校。这些学校开了 100 多年。加拿大有 100 多所学校。我认为，我们正处于真相与和解的时代。我认为，人们对寄宿学校以及幸存者在寄宿学校的经历有了更多的认识和理解。但印第安寄宿学校记录项目是我们试图充分理解和认识个体机构所发生的事情。这对我来说，很大程度上是我过去几年作为一名记者所做工作的延伸。2022 年，我做了一个播客，名为 **Stolen Surviving Saint Michael's**（被盗的幸存者圣迈克尔），关注我父亲在萨斯喀彻温省一所寄宿学校的经历。当我开始调查时，在那之前，你知道，我花了几年时间报道失踪和被谋杀的原住民女性和女孩，并理解这种暴力危机与印第安寄宿学校遗留问题之间的联系。但实际上，那个播客以及随后的调查，对我来说，都极具启发性和震撼性，你知道，深入研究一所学校，尽可能多地了解我的父亲，以及我那些就读于那所学校的姑姑和叔叔们——实际上，我家族几代人都上过那所学校——他们到底经历了什么。在一年的调查中，我们能够创建一个幸存者证词档案。我们能够查阅 485 起由该校幸存者提起的诉讼。在这些由个体幸存者提起的诉讼中，你知道，我们能够真正理解一所学校的虐待规模，以及可怕的虐待规模。作为一名记者，这对我来说是一次非常深刻的经历。绝对。理解我们在寄宿学校的历史中还有太多真相需要揭示。但作为幸存者的女儿，能够知道和理解我自己的生活是如何被我家庭的经历所塑造的，这是非常令人难以置信的。我觉得这应该在每所学校都发生。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> Yeah. Well, there were, you know, as you know, over 150,000 indigenous children, First Nations, Inuit and Métis kids who attended residential schools. They were open for over 100 years. There were over 100 schools across Canada. And I think that, you know, we're in this era of truth and reconciliation. I think there's a lot more awareness and understanding about generally, residential schools and what survivors experienced in residential schools. But the Indian Residential School Records Project is our attempt to to fully comprehend and understand what happened at individual institutions. And this is very much for me, an extension of the work that I've done as a journalist over the last few years. In 2022, I did a podcast called Stolen Surviving Saint Michael's that was focussed on my father's experience at a residential school in Saskatchewan. And when I began that investigation, it was after, you know, a few years of reporting on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and understanding the link between that crisis of violence and the legacy of residential schools. But really, the podcast and the investigation that followed was, was so eye opening and so shocking to me, just, you know, to really dig deep into a single school, to really try to understand as much as we could about what my father and, and, you know, my aunts and uncles who were there at the school, actually for generations of my family attended that one school. What they really survived. And in a year long investigation, we were able to create this archive of survivor testimony. We were able to access 485 lawsuits that were filed by survivors of this one school. And in those lawsuits filed by individual survivors, you know, we were really able to understand the scale of abuse, the horrifying scale of abuse at a single school. And it was such a, you know, profound experience for me as a as a journalist. Absolutely. To understand there's still so much truth we have to uncover about residential schools. But also as a daughter of a survivor, it was so incredible to, to know and understand how my own life has been shaped by my family's experience. And I felt like that should happen at every school.
**旁白**: 这是一项严肃的工作。而且，正如你提到的，这是你职业生涯中长期报道的故事。我很好奇，无论涉及你的父亲，还是其他家庭成员，或是你没有任何联系的人。这个项目进行过程中，有没有过任何让你感到犹豫的时刻，担心这些故事能否被听到？你知道，这其中有很大的分量？
Original English **旁白**: >> I have. This is a serious undertaking. And this is, as you mentioned, this is a story that stories that you have covered for a very long time throughout your career. And I am curious, you know, whether it is your father or another family member or someone that you have no connection to. Was there ever a moment, particularly with this project, that, you know, was there any trepidation in terms of entering this project and making sure that, you know, that these stories are heard? And, you know, there's a lot of weight in that?
**Connie Walker**: 绝对。我认为，这项工作，包括那个播客，都不是我轻视的。我认为，我几乎每一步都被提醒，这项工作的严肃性，对吧？这些都是非常极其敏感的个人故事，讲述的是对儿童犯下的可怕的虐待行为，无论，你知道，是我的亲属，还是圣迈克尔学校或其他学校或机构的其他幸存者。我认为，这当然非常重要，需要以一种创伤知情的方式来考虑，一种真正试图放大幸存者声音的方式。我总是回到这一点，你知道，这些学校存在了这么多年，真的几十年。直到 80 年代和 90 年代，幸存者才开始站出来谈论他们在印第安寄宿学校所遭受的虐待。而且很长一段时间，你知道，他们不被相信。他们不得不上法庭。他们不得不，你知道，试图在一个不利于相信他们或听取他们意见的体系中证明这些指控，并且不允许伸张正义和问责。即使是 IAP 听证会，你知道，在某种程度上，对许多幸存者来说，这是他们第一次公开讲述他们的故事。当他们讲述时，他们必须非常详细地讲述，你知道，关于他们所遭受的虐待的非常具体的事情。如果他们被相信，他们会得到赔偿。我说“如果他们被相信”，因为有时他们不被相信。你知道，我们采访了圣迈克尔学校的一些幸存者，他们的初步索赔被拒绝了，尽管他们声称自己被一名神父虐待，而这名神父以同样的方式虐待过其他儿童。我认为，当你考虑到幸存者为了获得赔偿付出了多少努力，更不用说，你知道，他们正在记录和证明，你知道，作为儿童对他们犯下的罪行，但这些从未作为 IAP 的一部分被调查过，你知道，这仅仅是为了赔偿。所以，当我想到幸存者们为了分享他们的真相，为了分享他们的故事所做的一切时，我认为，你知道，这显然让我想要尽可能敏感，但实际上，这是一项非常重要的工作。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> Absolutely. I think that that was never something this work generally, and even with the podcast, was never something that, that I took lightly. I think that I was reminded at every step, almost of, of the seriousness of this undertaking, right? These are very incredibly sensitive personal stories like of, of terrible abuse that was committed against children, whether, you know, whether they're my relatives or other survivors of Saint Michael's or other other schools or institutions. That's something that I think, obviously, you know, is so incredibly important to, to consider in a, in a trauma informed way, in, in a way that really. Tries to amplify the voices of survivors. The thing that I kind of always have gone back to is that, you know, these institutions of these schools were open for so many years, for decades, really. And it wasn't until the 80s and the 90s where survivors started coming forward and talking about the abuse they experienced in Indian residential schools. And for a long time, you know, they weren't believed. They had to go to court. They had to, you know, try to prove these allegations in, in, in a system that wasn't conducive to believing them or to hearing them and to allowing for justice and accountability, even even the IAP hearings, you know, it was in some ways for a lot of survivors the first time that they had had come forward to share their stories. And when they told they had to, they had to tell in very graphic detail, you know, very specific things about the abuse that they experienced. And if they were believed, they received compensation. And I say if they were believed, because sometimes they they weren't believed. You know, we spoke to survivors who at Saint Michael's who, you know, whose initial claims had been denied despite the fact that they claimed they were abused by a priest who who was known to be abusive in the same way to other children. And I think that when you think about how much survivors had to fight in order to to receive even compensation, let alone like, you know, they were recording and testifying to, you know, crimes that were committed against them as children, but they were never investigated as part of the I. AP, you know, it was only for compensation. And so when I think about what survivors have done to try to share their truth, to try to, to share their stories, I think that, you know, obviously makes me want to be as sensitive as I possibly can, but really that this is very important work.
**旁白**: 正如你提到的，IAP 和独立评估程序。让我们来谈谈这个项目，因为它有一些令人兴奋的元素，你正在利用 TMU 的未来，与法学院学生、一些新闻系学生合作。这个过程进行到哪一步了？这些学生扮演什么角色？
Original English **旁白**: >> As you mentioned, the IAP and the independent assessment process. Let's talk a little bit about the project, because there is some some exciting elements to it in that you are tapping into the future of, you know, the of TMU with law students, some journalism students as well. Where are we at with this process and what is the role of those those students?
**Connie Walker**: 我们正处于项目的初期。我们刚获得安大略省法律基金会的支持，我们的目标是复制我们在播客《幸存的圣迈克尔》中所做的工作，提交信息公开请求，接收导致寄宿学校和解协议的幸存者提起的诉讼的文件编号。现在，这些都是公开文件。所以我们的目标是直接与幸存者、他们的家人和社区合作，从幸存者提起的诉讼中创建新的证词档案。当我思考，你知道，播客结束后，我就觉得这应该更广泛地进行。应该为每一所学校都这样做。应该为每一个幸存者想要这样做、想要这样做的社区、家庭和幸存者这样做，还有代际幸存者。我认为大学是一个理想的场所。你知道，我认为它本质上是跨学科的。显然，我们很幸运能在林肯·亚历山大法学院与法学院学生合作，并在 TMU 的新闻学院与新闻系学生合作。我真的很期待他们能参与进来，因为我认为这对法学院学生来说非常重要，让他们学习和理解如何与原住民社区和幸存者打交道。但我也认为，这对新闻系学生来说，能让他们理解在理解印第安寄宿学校发生了什么方面，还有多少真相有待揭示。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> We're right at the beginning of the process. We've just received some some support from the Law Foundation Foundation of Ontario to essentially what our goal is to replicate the work we did and the podcast, Surviving Saint Michael's to file access to information requests to receive the file numbers of the lawsuits that survivors filed that led to the residential school settlement agreement. Now, those are public documents. And so our goal is to to work directly with survivors, their families and communities to create these new archives of testimony from the lawsuits that survivors filed. And when I was thinking about, you know, as soon as I finished the podcast, I felt like this should happen on a broader scale. It should happen for every school. It should happen for every community and family and survivor who wants it, and intergenerational survivor. And I thought a university would be an ideal place. You know, I think it's interdisciplinary in nature. There's obviously we're so lucky to work with law students at Lincoln Alexander Law School and with journalism students from the School of Journalism at TMU. And I'm really excited to have them be a part of it because I think this is really important for, for law students to learn and understand how to engage with indigenous communities and survivors. But also, I think, to for journalism students to understand how much of the truth is, is still yet to uncover in terms of understanding what happened in, in Indian residential schools.
**旁白**: 你说你们才刚要开始。这有时间表吗？你们希望什么时候完成？
Original English **旁白**: >> You say that you guys are just about to start. Is there a timeline in terms of when you would like this to be all done?
**Connie Walker**: 嗯，是的，我认为最初，我们将专注于安大略省的五所学校。而且我认为，因为我们将专注于直接与幸存者及其家人和社区合作，我们真的希望这是一个过程，在这个过程中，我们将把决定权交还给幸存者及其家人，让他们决定这些信息应该如何处理，他们可以决定自己的故事应该如何处理。我们真的希望制定一些关于这种参与的流程和协议，真正让幸存者及其家人处于主导地位。但我预计，这是一个可能持续多年的项目，并最终扩展到包括全国各地的寄宿学校。你知道，有 100 多所学校，开了 100 多年。我认为，我在制作关于我家庭在圣迈克尔印第安寄宿学校经历的播客时，我意识到的一件事是，当那个播客出来时，我听到了许多其他代际幸存者的声音。这是一个关于我父亲和他在这所寄宿学校经历的非常个人的故事。但他们说，这感觉就像是他们的故事。我在谈论他们以及他们的父母或祖父母，这让我意识到，你知道，对于代际幸存者来说，这有多么重要，因为，你知道，我们的生活显然受到我们父母和祖父母在这些学校经历的影响，但我们许多人不知道他们到底经历了什么，不真正了解他们经历了什么。我认为这是我作为一名记者，在帮助保存真相和提高认识方面的重要一部分。但我也认为，你知道，从个人角度来说，这是非常重要的事情。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> Well, I mean, yeah, I think that at the outset, we're going to be focusing on on five schools in Ontario. And I think because we're going to be so focussed on working directly with survivors and their families and communities, we really want this to be a process where we are giving the agency back to survivors and their families in terms of, they can decide what should happen with this information, they can decide what should happen with their own stories. We're really hoping to develop some, some kind of processes and protocols around that engagement and really putting putting survivors and their families in the driver's seat. But I anticipate this is a project that goes on potentially for for many years and eventually expands to include residential schools across the country. You know, there were over 100 that were open for over 100 years. And I think that one thing that I've realised in doing the podcast about my my family's experience at Saint Michael's Indian Residential School is I heard from so many other intergenerational survivors when that podcast came out, you know, it was a very personal story about my father and his experience at this residential school. But they said it felt like it was their story, too. I was talking about them and their parents or grandparents, and it made me realise, you know, just how important it is for intergenerational survivors because, you know, obviously our lives have been shaped by our parents and grandparents experience in these schools, but so many of us don't know what it is they really survived, don't really understand what they went through. And I think this is an important part of, you know, my role as a journalist in helping to preserve as much of the truth and, and raise awareness. But I think it's also, you know, personally, it feels like a really important thing to be able to, to understand.
**旁白**: 你提到了真相，还有很多需要从中产生的。但像这样的项目对加拿大的真相与和解意味着什么？
Original English **旁白**: >> You mentioned truth, and there's a lot more that needs to come from that. But what do projects like this mean for truth and reconciliation here in Canada?
**Connie Walker**: 你知道，我认为我通过各种报道学到的一件事，你知道，我做了很多关于失踪和被谋杀原住民女性和女孩的报道。对我来说，这确实是，你知道，引导我报道印第安寄宿学校，因为我认为在原住民社区，尤其是在新闻界，有很多当代问题是我们经常谈论的。我认为我自己的职业生涯和我的调查教会了我，这一切是如何与加拿大更宏大的印第安寄宿学校的故事，以及加拿大的殖民化联系在一起的。而且我认为，你知道，这项工作确实向我展示了，你知道，我们仍处于真相与和解的真相阶段。我们仍然需要了解和理解很多事情。而且作为记者，我们还有很多工作要做，真正揭露这些机构中发生的事情的真相。这也是激励我继续做我正在做的工作。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> You know, I think that one thing that I've learned in, in the various reporting that I've done, you know, I've done a lot of reporting on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. And that to me was really kind of, you know, led me to reporting on Indian residential schools because I think there are so many contemporary issues that, that we talk about in indigenous communities, especially in journalism. And I think my, my, my own career and my own investigations have taught me how it's so interconnected to this bigger story in Canada of Indian residential schools, but also of colonisation in Canada. And I think that, you know, this work has really shown me that there is, you know, that we're still in the truth phase of truth and reconciliation. There's still so much we need to know and understand. And as journalists, so much work for us to do, to really expose the truth of what happened in these institutions. And that's something that really motivates me and the work that I'm doing.
**旁白**: 从你职业生涯的早期到现在，你有没有想过？现在说服编辑和制片人这些故事很重要，是不是更容易了？你讲述了自己的故事，获得了普利策奖和皮博迪奖。如果不是这些认可，你认为这些故事还会有同样的分量吗？
Original English **旁白**: >> Do you have to ask from your early career to where you are now? Is it easier now to convince editors and producers that these stories matter? You telling your own story, which won a Pulitzer Prize and a Peabody? Like, if it wasn't for those recognitions, do you think these stories that they would have the same sort of weight in that sense?
**Connie Walker**: 是的，绝对。我的意思是，当我刚开始的时候，我从 2000 年就开始做记者了。你知道，一开始，人们对关于原住民及其社区的故事几乎没有兴趣。而且，我认为，不幸的是，当时存在一种看法，一种错误的看法，认为这些故事不重要，或者加拿大人不关心它们。我认为，在过去的十年，尤其是十五年里，情况已经发生了巨大的变化，这是因为幸存者的工作，也是因为 TRC 的工作。但这从来不是我理所当然的。你知道，我认为，除了，你知道，也许是对真相与和解的这种认识，也存在日益增长的否认主义。有人和组织在积极否认印第安寄宿学校发生的事情，也否认幸存者、真相委员会和调解人报告所证明的在印第安寄宿学校发生的事情。所以，我从来不认为这是理所当然的。我也认为，尽管加拿大新闻业取得了很大进展。你知道，还有很多工作要做。我认为，我应该指出，我获得的奖项，普利策奖和皮博迪奖，实际上是在我离开加拿大，为一家美国新闻机构工作时获得的，而这家机构支持了我关于一个加拿大故事的工作。所以，我认为，你永远不能理所当然地认为这会是必然的。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I first started, I'm, you know, I've been a journalist since 2000, you know, at the very beginning, there was very little interest in stories about indigenous people and communities. And I think, unfortunately, there was there was a belief, a false belief that those stories were an important or that Canadians didn't care about them. And I think that has changed, obviously, dramatically over the last, especially ten, 15 years, because of the work of survivors, because of the work of the TRC. But it's never something that I take for granted. You know, I think that along with, you know, maybe this this awareness of truth and reconciliation, there's also growing denialism. There are people and organisations out there who actively deny what's happened in Indian residential schools and deny what survivors and truth commissions and interlocutor reports have have proven about what was happening in Indian residential schools. So it's never something I take for granted. I think also as much progress has been made in Canadian journalism. You know, there is still so much work to to do. I think, you know, I should point out that the the awards that I won, the Pulitzer and the Peabody was, were actually when I left Canada to, to work for an American news Organization and that supported that work about a Canadian story. So I think that, you know, that's never something I take for granted that's going to be a given.
**旁白**: 我想这是一种苦乐参半的感觉。
Original English **旁白**: >> I imagine a bittersweet feeling as well.
**Connie Walker**: 是的。我的意思是，当然，但我想，你知道，这不是一种不熟悉的感觉。我认为，我绝对不是唯一一个在主流新闻编辑室、传统媒体中感到代表性不足的原住民记者或有色人种记者，但他们却努力推进这些故事，证明其对加拿大和加拿大人的重要性、意义和相关性。我认为，这是我们永远都需要继续做的工作。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> Yeah. I mean, sure, but I think that, you know, it's, it's, it's not an unfamiliar feeling. I think certainly I'm not the only indigenous journalist or journalist of colour who feels underrepresented in mainstream newsrooms, in legacy media, but who have then, you know, done the work of pushing these stories forward, of proving the significance, the importance, the relevance to Canada and to Canadians. And I think that's that's work that we're always just going to have to continue to do.
**旁白**: 好的。今天是红裙日，你希望加拿大人、安大略省人今天反思什么？
Original English **旁白**: >> All right. Today is Red Dress Day what is something you would like people, Canadians, Ontarians, to reflect on today?
**Connie Walker**: 是的，我的意思是，在任何情况下，你知道，我做了很多关于这场暴力危机以及失踪和被谋杀原住民女性和女孩的报道。而且，你知道，我一直在想念她们，你知道，**Cleo Semaganis**、**Leah Anderson**、**Germaine Charlo** 以及她们的家人和社区。而且，你知道，我的许多报道显然是想帮助人们再次理解这场危机的规模，并理解它在原住民社区有多么广泛，但同时也绝不能忘记故事背后真实的人们，以及今天正在悲痛的、纪念他们失踪亲人的真实家庭，并且我真心希望，你知道，想想他们，并向他们致以支持，因为当他们显然在悲痛和哀悼时，他们也常常被迫成为他们亲人的倡导者，并且，你知道，与记者和其他人合作，试图为正义、问责和真相而战。我认为这两个问题非常相关。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> Yeah, I mean, in any you know, I've done quite a lot of reporting on on this crisis of violence and on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. And, you know, I am always thinking of of them the, you know, Cleo Semaganis, Leah Anderson, Germaine Charlo and their families and communities. And how, you know, so much of my reporting has been obviously wanting to help people understand the scale again, of this crisis and understanding just how broad reaching it is in indigenous communities, but also never forgetting the real people at the heart of the stories and the real families that are grieving today and are remembering their lost loved ones and really just want to, you know, think of them and, and send them support because what they do when they obviously are grieving and mourning, they're often also forced to become advocates for their loved ones and to, to, you know, to work with journalists and other people to, to try to help fight for justice and accountability and, and the truth. And I think these two issues are very connected.
**旁白**: Carney。我们得说到这里了。但我想非常感谢你所做的工作，当然，还有你为这个重要故事付出的热情。所以，非常感谢你。
Original English **旁白**: >> Carney. We are going to have to leave it there. But I want to thank you so much for the work that you do, of course, but for your passion as well, for such an important story. So thank you so much.
**Connie Walker**: 非常感谢你邀请我。我真的很感激。
Original English **Connie Walker**: >> Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
### 纪念失踪及被谋杀原住民女性：一本儿童读物 **旁白**: 一本新的儿童读物探讨了一个棘手的话题。红裙日与失踪及被谋杀原住民女性、女孩和双灵人士（MMIWG）危机，并为孩子们、家庭和教师提供了深思熟虑的指导。**Carolyn Roberts** 是新儿童读物 **Tessa's Red Dress**（Tessa的红裙）的作者，她来到演播室。很高兴见到你。你怎么样？
Original English **旁白**: >> A new children's book takes on a tough topic. Red Dress Day and the Crisis of Missing and Murdered Indigenous women and girls and two spirit people, and offers thoughtful guidance for kids, families, and teachers. Carolyn Roberts is the author of the new children's book Tessa's Red dress, and she joins me in studio. Great to see you. How are you doing?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 我很好，谢谢。你呢？
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> I'm good. Thanks. How are you?
**旁白**: 我也很好。好的。不泄露太多内容，Tessa's Red Dress 讲的是什么？
Original English **旁白**: >> I'm doing well. All right. Without giving away too much, what is Tessa's red dress about?
**Carolyn Roberts**: Tessa's Red Dress 描绘了 Tess 和她妈妈之间一段美好的时光，她们正在进行关于有兄弟姐妹是什么样的对话。因为 Tessa 很快就会有一个新弟弟或妹妹了，她想听听她妈妈小时候有兄弟姐妹是什么样的。她们一边为红裙日做准备，一边谈论着这个过程。所以，当我们阅读故事时，我们会发现妈妈的姐姐已经不在我们身边了。她失踪了。所以，我们要让她的记忆和她的故事活下去，这真的是关于让那些故事活下去，谈论它，并在故事中纪念她的姐姐。书中所有零碎的瞬间都来自我自己的个人故事，与我的孩子们、我的姐妹们、我的侄女和侄子们。所以，这些小时刻都被融入了这个关于 Tess 和她妈妈的虚构故事中。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Tessa's red dress is just this beautiful moments in time where Tess and her mom are sharing. Having conversations about what it's like to have a sibling. Because Tessa's going to have a new sibling soon, and she kind of wants to hear about what her mom's life was like when she had a sibling growing up. And they're talking through the process of what that looked like. So sharing memories and moments and snippets of time while they are getting ready for Red Dress Day. So as we move through the story, we find out that mom's sister is no longer with us. She's missing. So keeping her memory and her story alive, and it's really about keeping, keeping those stories alive and talking about it and honouring her sister in the story. And all of the little snippets of moments in time are from my own personal story, with my own kids and my sisters and my nieces and nephews. So it's all of those little moments, and they they're all put together in this fictional story with Tess and her mom.
**旁白**: 你想通过这本书探讨哪些主题？
Original English **旁白**: >> What are some of the themes you're trying to address with the book?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 一些主题是，嗯，显然，我们希望以一种积极的方式来呈现原住民的代表性，以及这个家庭如何应对失去亲人，他们如何处理，以及他们如何通过分享记忆来让人们的故事活下去，并给予他们基础。一些其他的主题，潜在的主题谈论，比如**波特拉奇**（Potlatch）和**太阳舞乐队**（Sun Dance Band）当时不允许聚集。他们还谈论了记住原住民女性的重要性，为什么我们需要记住她们，以及红裙日真正意味着什么。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Some of the themes are, well, obviously we would like representation of indigenous people in a good way and how that family is working through the loss of a loved one and how they navigate that and how they keep people's stories alive through sharing of memories and giving that foundational piece. Some of the other themes, the underlying themes talk about, like the Potlatch and Sun Dance Band when they weren't allowed to gather. They also talk about the importance of remembering indigenous women and why we need to remember them, and what Red Dress Day is really about.
**旁白**: 你刚才提到了，在你的书中，也有一些童年的影响。你能详细说明一下吗？那些影响是什么？你是如何将它们融入书中的？
Original English **旁白**: >> You had mentioned just right now, but also in your book, that there are some influences from your childhood. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? What were some of the sort of those influences, and how did you sort of navigate putting that into the book?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 这是个很好的问题。我感觉作为一名作者，我写的故事会通过我流淌出来，它们与我的家人有关，就像我的孩子们还小的时候，他们会在浴缸里一起玩，尖叫、唱歌、泼水，玩得不亦乐乎。这部分内容也在书中。所以，我觉得有这些小小的连接时刻，它们构成了我们家庭的记忆，我把它们写进了书里，还有一些其他的细节。但那些有意义的时刻，我认为它们有助于分享我们的故事。我真的想展现一些原住民文化和原住民社区的元素，这些是人们日常生活中可能看不到的，因为关于加拿大原住民的叙述可能不像一个紧密的家庭。但我希望展现我所看到的我家庭、我姐妹家庭以及她们孩子家庭的这种联系和爱。我希望这些联系能够体现出来。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> That's a really good question. I feel like me as an author, I write the stories come through me, and there's connections to them, to my family of when I was, when my kids were little and they would be in the bath together and they were screaming and singing and splashing and having all that fun. And that's part of the book. So I feel like there's just these little moments of connection that give us our memories for our family that I've put in, and there's some others along the way within it. But those were some meaningful moments that I think help share our stories. And I really wanted to bring out pieces of indigenous culture and indigenous community that people might not see within their everyday, because the narrative of indigenous people in what in Canada are maybe not as as this whole knit family, right? But I wanted to represent what I see within my family and my sister's family and their children's family of, of this connectedness and love. I wanted those threads to come through.
**旁白**: Tessa 多大了？
Original English **旁白**: >> How old is Tess?
**Carolyn Roberts**: Tess 大约 5 或 6 岁。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Tess is about 5 or 6.
**旁白**: 5 或 6 岁？
Original English **旁白**: >> 5 or 6?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 是的。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Yeah.
**旁白**: 你知道，这是一件相当沉重的事情。当你从大局来看，从你试图探讨的对话和主题来看。你为什么想把它写成一本儿童读物？
Original English **旁白**: One thing you know, this is pretty heavy subject matter. When you look at the big picture in terms of the conversation, themes that you're trying to talk about. Why did you want to write it as a children's book?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 因为我认为，让年轻人从原住民的视角来理解原住民社区非常重要。我们已经有 150 多年是别人在讲述我们的故事。所以我真的想从他们自己的角度讲述一个原住民家庭的故事。这些文化和传统的片段与视觉效果交织在一起，包括 Tess 的雪松帽和书中出现的 **Coast Salish shawl**（海岸萨利希披肩）。所有这些与我们身份相关的联系，以便我们能看到一个原住民家庭的代表，这可能与我们以前看到或谈论的有所不同。而且，如果你不认识任何原住民，你可能就没有接触。所以，这种代表性在书中出现真的很重要。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Because I think that it's really important for younger people to understand indigenous communities from an indigenous lens. We've had 150 plus years of other people telling our stories of indigenous people. So I really wanted to tell the story of an indigenous family from their own perspective. And those little pieces of culture and tradition are woven through it, with the visuals, with tests and her cedar hat and the Coast Salish shawl that's in the book as well. So all of these connections to who we are so that we can see a representation of an indigenous family, which we might not have seen or talked about before. And if you don't know any indigenous people, you may not have that contact. So that representation was really important to have come through in the book.
**旁白**: 插画绝对是华丽的，对吧？我很好奇，你知道，结合这一点，以及故事本身，为了写给年轻读者关于如此严肃的事情，你需要考虑哪些细微之处？
Original English **旁白**: >> The artwork is absolutely gorgeous, right? I am curious, you know, in combination with that, but the storytelling itself, what are some of the nuances that you have to take into consideration for writing for a younger audience about something that is serious?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 嗯，我认为你不希望让读者感到不知所措，你不希望让任何阅读本书的人感到不知所措，但你也想邀请他们进入。所以，在思考我家庭中的所有这些瞬间时，这真的很重要，我希望这些瞬间也能与其他人对他们家庭和在一起时光的记忆产生共鸣。所以，关键在于在书中建立那些小小的联系，让人们能够拥有相似的故事，并能产生共鸣。在文字中。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Well, I think that you don't want to overwhelm a reader. You don't want to overwhelm anybody reading the book, but you also want to invite them in. So which was really important when we're thinking about all of those moments in time within my family that I was hoping that that would also connect with other people and their memories of their family and time together. So it was really about making those small connections within the book for people to hopefully have similar type stories that that they could connect with. Within the words.
**旁白**: 你提到 150 年来一直有人讲述原住民的故事，但不是从原住民的视角。我很好奇，Tessa's Red Dress 在哪些方面挑战了有时对原住民的负面刻板印象？
Original English **旁白**: >> You talk about people telling indigenous stories for 150 years that are not told from indigenous people. I am curious, in what ways does Tess's Red Dress challenge and sometimes negative stereotypes about indigenous people?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 是的，嗯，我认为。在这片土地被殖民之前，这片土地上的许多原住民社区都是母系社会。所以，我们的女性是我们的领导者。她们是我们的知识持有者。她们传承我们的故事、文化和传统，她们也孕育下一代。她们领导着我们的社区。自从殖民化以来，我们被置于一个不同的体系中，在那里，这一点没有被尊重和承认，使我们处于危险之中，更容易在本国被谋杀或失踪。所以，我认为这本书所解决的问题是展示母亲的力量以及 Tess 的力量，因为书中有一个瞬间，Tess 非常兴奋地要纪念她的姑姑，戴上红裙，确保她姑姑的声音被听到。但妈妈也在努力应对失去亲人的感觉，在她看着女儿骄傲地站着时，却无法创造新的回忆。所以，当她们互相拥抱，讲述这个故事时，这种联系和爱就变得非常重要。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Yeah, well, I think so. Prior to the colonisation of this land, many indigenous communities across this land were matriarchal. So our women are our leaders. They're our knowledge holders. They keep our stories, their culture and our traditions, and they also give life to the next generation. And they led our communities. And since colonisation, we've been put into a different system where that's not honoured and acknowledged and places us in harms way and at higher risk for either being murdered or going missing in this country. So I think that the the things that this book, I hope, addresses with that is showing the strength of the mother and the strength of Tess in it, because there's a moment in time in the book where Tess is super excited to honour her aunty and wear the red dress and make sure that her aunty voice is is heard. But mom is also kind of navigating that feeling of loss, of not making new memories while she's watching her daughter stand there with so much pride. So that connection and that love is really important to see as they're holding each other, navigating that story.
**旁白**: 厨房里有一幕很美，有很多坚强的女性。是的。在许多原住民文化中，口头传统通过故事让祖先活下来。我很好奇，Tessa 的妈妈讲故事在多大程度上延续了这种口头传统？
Original English **旁白**: >> There's this beautiful scene in the kitchen with a number of strong women. Yes. And in many indigenous cultures, oral traditions keep ancestral ancestors alive through stories. And I am curious, to what extent does Tessa's mom's storytelling carry that oral tradition forward?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 是的。所以，正是通过回忆她们年轻时以及成长过程中的样子，以及听其他姑姑——我们称之为“大姑姑的笑声”——在厨房里。但能够分享我们是谁，以及我们在那些故事中的身份，这对我们的社区来说非常重要，这就是为什么在我们生活中拥有这些女性如此重要。当她们失踪时，我们就失去了一个核心的自我。所以我喜欢厨房里她们都在笑、说话和分享的那张照片。我非常幸运能在我的生活中拥有那些时刻，能够将我从她们那里学到的东西传承下去。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Yeah. So it's through that remembering of who they were when they were young and as they were growing up and listening to other aunties. Big aunty laughs. We call it in the kitchen. But being able to share who we, who we are and who we were within those stories is really important in our communities, which is why it's so important to have those women in our lives. And when they're missing, we're missing like this core piece of who we are. So I love that picture in the kitchen when they're all laughing and talking and sharing. And I've been so lucky and fortunate to have those moments in my life to be able to pass on what I've learned from them in those moments.
**旁白**: 你提到了倾听，所以我想深入了解。对于非原住民来说，在讨论悲伤、失落、失踪及被谋杀原住民女性、女孩和双灵人士危机等沉重话题时，有哪些尊重的倾听方式？
Original English **旁白**: >> You mentioned listening, and so I want to tap into that. What are respectful listening practices for non-Indigenous people when discussing heavy topics like grief, loss, missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and two spirit peoples crisis?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 是的。在我们社区，我可能会把这比作是见证某事。所以，当你来到我们的社区，我们正在举行一场仪式，如果我们请你见证这场仪式，我们是在邀请你成为一种不同类型的倾听者，就像一个讲述者，讲述正在发生的事情。所以，这给我们带来了一种责任，我必须确保我把所有这些细节都弄对。所以，你要更有目的地倾听。**Joanne Archibald** 博士谈到要用我们的“三只耳朵”倾听，我们脑袋两侧的两只，以及用心去听。所以，我认为，当我们在谈论被谋杀和失踪的原住民女性和女孩这个话题时，人们理解的最重要的一点是，我们要全心全意地倾听，去理解正在发生的事情，尤其是如果我们了解不多的话。但要倾听，去听那些故事，听正在发生的事情，这样我们才能带来改变。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Yeah. So in our community, I would I would equate that to being a witness to something. So when you come into our community and we are having a ceremony, and if we ask you to witness that ceremony, we are inviting you in to be a different kind of listener, like a storyteller of what is happening. So it places this onus on us that I really have to make sure that I get all of these pieces correct. So you listen with way more intent. Doctor Joanne Archibald talks about listening with our three years, the two on our side of our head, and the last is with our heart. So I think that what's really important for people to understand when we're talking about the topic of murdered and missing indigenous women and girls, is that we listen wholeheartedly and to listen to understand what's happening, especially if we don't know much about it. But listening to hear the stories, hearing what is happening so that hopefully we can make change moving forward.
**旁白**: Carolyn，读完这本书后，学生和家庭可以采取的一个行动是什么？
Original English **旁白**: >> Carolyn, what's one action students and families can take after reading this book?
**Carolyn Roberts**: 我认为他们可以采取的一个行动是。在书的背面，有一个被谋杀和失踪的原住民女性和女孩报告的精简版。看一看那个，读一读。如果你之后还有更多的疑问，我希望如此，那就继续阅读报告。但要纪念红裙日，穿上红裙，分享你所知道的，并继续学习。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> I think one action they could take. In the back of the book, there is a condensed version of the Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women and Girls Report. Take a look at that, read through that. And if you're more curious after that, which I hope you are, then move on to reading the report. But honouring Red Dress Day, wearing a red dress, sharing what you know, and continuing to learn about that.
**旁白**: Carolyn，恭喜你出版了一本精彩的书。这也是一个非常重要的故事。
Original English **旁白**: >> Carolyn, congratulations on a wonderful book. Very important story as well.
**Carolyn Roberts**: 谢谢。
Original English **Carolyn Roberts**: >> Thank you.
**旁白**: 我是 Jeyan。感谢收看 The Rundown。我们很想知道你的想法，所以请将你的建议和反馈发送至 TVO.org/rundownfeedback，或者你随时可以给我们留言。在那之前，明天见。
Original English **旁白**: >> I'm Jeyan. Thanks for watching The Rundown. We'd love to know what you think, so send us your suggestions and feedback at TVO.org/rundownfeedback, or you can always leave us a comment. Until then, I will see you tomorrow.