--- author: The Diary Of A CEO date: '2026-10-15' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yePLuwL3FbM speaker: The Diary Of A CEO tags: - attention-management - neuroscience - productivity - digital-wellbeing - cognitive-load title: 注意力经济下的认知突围：神经科学视角下的生产力重塑 summary: 本文探讨了多任务处理对注意力的损耗，提出利用逆向神经科学对抗科技产品的参与度陷阱。通过灰度模式、长内容消费及生理节律管理，结合长期目标锚定，旨在帮助个体重获对数字生活的掌控权，实现有意识的高效生活。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: psychology area: society-thinking project: [] people: - Sahar Yousef - Stephen Bartlett companies_orgs: - Mind Machine and Meaning Institute products_models: [] media_books: [] status: evergreen --- ### 多任务处理的假象与注意力切换损耗 **Sahar Yousef 博士**：每一次你转移注意力，都是要付出代价的。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Every single time you switch your attention, you pay for it.
**主持人**：大家都说多任务并行只是个神话。
Original English **Host**: Say multitasking is a myth.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：确实如此。所以，我们接下来要做的，就是实际感受一下：每一次你转移注意力，究竟白白浪费了多少时间和精力。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Yeah. So, what we are going to do is get a sense of the amount of time and energy that you essentially waste every single time you switch your attention.
**主持人**：好，我们开始吧。
Original English **Host**: Okay. Let's do this.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：好的，准备好了吗？
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: All right. Are you ready?
**主持人**：准备好了。
Original English **Host**: Yeah.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：做好准备，开始！
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Get ready. Go.
**主持人**：天呐，这真是一场好戏。
Original English **Host**: Oh my gosh. This is a show.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：完成。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Done.
**主持人**：我也完成了。
Original English **Host**: Done.
**主持人**：所以，从理论上来说，我日常仅仅是因为同时在两类不同任务之间来回切换，就会损失 60% 的工作效率。
Original English **Host**: So, on a daily basis, theoretically, I'm losing 60% of my productivity just by switching between two different types of tasks at once.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：是的。而且如今人们平均每天在不同屏幕和各种任务之间辗转跳跃所浪费的时间，已经超过了 2 个小时。如果我们继续保持这种心烦意乱、注意力涣散的状态，我们最终会过上一种连自己都厌恶的生活。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Yeah. And over 2 hours a day is the average now of how much time is being wasted bouncing between screens and different tasks. If we stay this distracted, we will live a life that we don't like living.
### 对抗 engagement 陷阱的神经科学工具箱 **主持人**：那么，这个盒子里装的是什么呢？
Original English **Host**: So what is in this book?
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：我们要把这个盒子里的东西逐一拿出来看。我打算把关于提升生产力和人类效能的所有科学原理都教给你。因为我很清楚，我们所有科技产品的默认设置，都是由像我这样的人精心设计的，目的就是将用户参与度最大化。举个例子，那种“无限滚动加载”机制，就像是你去吃自助餐，直接把嘴张开，面前有一条源源不断的传送带，把食物和糖果直接往你嘴里倒，完全没有任何制动或拦截点。但我们可以利用逆向神经科学，把这整套机制彻底反转过来。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: We're going to go through the box. I'm going to teach you all the science for productivity and human performance because I know that the default settings of all of our technology are designed by people like me to maximize engagement. For example, the infinite scroll is like going to a buffet and just opening your mouth and there's just an assembly line of food and candy just going straight in. There's no backstop, but we can use reverse neuroscience to reverse this entire thing.
**主持人**：那我们首先应该从哪里入手刹车？
Original English **Host**: Where's the first place to stop?
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：第一步，把你的手机屏幕调成灰度模式。我们实验室的研究表明，灰度显示会降低手机对神经系统的刺激程度。我们观察到，人们平均每天在手机上花费的时间因此减少了 1 个小时，一周下来就是整整 7 个小时。下一步，就是选择长篇内容，放弃短视频碎片内容。如果摄入太多短视频，你的专注力就会彻底崩盘。你不仅在体感上会觉得更糟糕，你的大脑也会在更低水平的状态下运转。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: First, put your phone in gray. Research from my lab shows grayscale makes the phone less neurologically stimulating. And we saw on average people spent 1 hour less on their phones every single day. That's 7 hours a week. Next is choosing long form over short form content. If we have too much short form, your attention span is shot. You literally feel shittier and your brain operates at a lower level.
**主持人**：我看到你的生产力工具包里还有一个钟表。
Original English **Host**: I can see in your productivity toolkit, there is a clock.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：对，在提升生产力方面，这是一个极其关键的破局工具；同时它也用于“专注冲刺”，帮助人们完成两倍于平时的产出。我们还可以探讨决定进行专注冲刺最佳时段的生物原型。除此之外，我还有一个绝佳的工具来强化你的心智，让你更擅长专注。所以，我打算把这些方法全部分享给你。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Yeah, this is a huge huge game changer in terms of productivity, but also there was a focus sprint to help people to do up to two times as much as they would otherwise do. And we can talk about biological prototypes that dictate the ideal time you should be doing your focus sprints. But also, I have another amazing thing to strengthen your mind and make you better at focusing. So, I'm going to teach you all this stuff.
**主持人**：好，那我们就深入探讨吧。
Original English **Host**: Okay? So, let's get into it.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：我们首先真正需要聚焦的……
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: So, the first thing we ought to really focus in on is
### 尊重生理法则：从“做什么”转向“如何做” **主持人**：这里有一个奇特的事实：现在观看本期节目的观众中，大约有 58% 的人其实还没有订阅这个频道。从概率上讲，这很可能也包括你。所以我能否请你帮个小忙？如果这个频道曾经为你带来过哪怕一点点价值，能否随手点击一下订阅按钮？这不需要任何费用，但对我们的支持远超你的想象。而且正如你所见，频道规模越大，我们就能在嘉宾阵容和制作质量上投入更多。非常感谢大家，希望你们喜欢本期节目。 Sahar Yousef 博士，如果让你用几句话来概括，你当前所肩负的使命是什么？为什么它对此时此刻收听节目的观众至关重要？
Original English **Host**: here is a strange fact. Most of the people watching this right now, about 58% of you, aren't yet subscribed to this channel. Statistically, that is probably you. So, could I ask you a small favor? If this channel has ever given you any value at all, please could you do me a favor and hit the subscribe button? It costs nothing. It helps us more than you could know. And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the more we can invest in the guests and the production. So, thank you so much and I hope you enjoy this episode. Dr. Saha Ysef, what is the mission that you are on if you had to try and capture it in a couple of sentences and why does it matter to the people that are tuning in and listening right now?
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：我肩负的使命，首先是向全世界普及科学教育，让人们能够以一种更加契合自身大脑与身体最佳工作机制的方式去工作。我的哲学核心在于：大脑和身体的运转存在着不可违背的基本法则。我总是把这些规律比作物理学定律。物理学有其客观规律，我们从来不会去质疑这些规律……
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: The mission I am on is to first and foremost bring science education to the world in a way that allows people to work more in line with how their brains and their bodies actually work best. This is my philosophy that there are fundamental laws of how the brain and the body actually work. And I always liken these things to the laws of physics. There are laws of physics. We don't question the laws,
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：比如万有引力定律。我绝不会哪天早晨醒来对自己说：“你猜怎么着？我想把重力给废除掉。”同样，生物学也存在着根本法则，但我们却自欺欺人地完全无视了这些生物学规律。我们在学校里没有从小教导孩子们他们的大脑是如何运作的，好让他们学得更轻松一些，学会进入心流状态，学会应对生理性压力等问题。我们也没有向人们传授睡眠的基本规律。而我的专业领域则是生产力。我们平时把太多的注意力放在了“目标内容”（What）上——交付成果是什么？长期目标是什么？年度目标是什么？季度目标是什么？全都是一味追问“做什么、做什么、做什么”，却唯独没有探究“该如何做”（How）。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: gravity. I don't ever wake up one morning and go, you know what? I want to do away with it. And I know that there are fundamental laws of biology, but we blissfully ignore these laws of biology. We don't teach kids when they're in school at an early age how their brains work so that they might be able to study a little bit easier, you know, find flow, actually be able to manage things like stress, physiological stress. We don't teach people the fundamentals of sleep. And my area of expertise is productivity. We focus so much on what. What's the deliverable? What's the long-term goal? What's the annual goal? What's the quarterly goal? What what what what? But not the how.
**主持人**：我们究竟该如何去把这些事情做好？一个人究竟用什么样的方式坐下来，才能真正产生创新的构想？
Original English **Host**: How should we go about getting these things done? What is the best way in fact that a human being might sit down and have an innovative thought?
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：没错，真正探究创新的神经科学机制。我们所有人都在为之着迷。我来自硅谷，大家对所谓的创新如痴如醉，但我们去搞创新所依赖的工具，正是……
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Like truly like what's like let's for example the neuroscience of innovation. We're all obsessed. I'm from Silicon Valley. We're obsessed with sort of innovation, but we're doing that with this
**主持人**：正是用我们的大脑，依靠我们的大脑。
Original English **Host**: with our brains with our brains.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：这是一个生物系统。后退一步去搞明白这个系统究竟是如何运转的，难道不是明智之举吗？我只是觉得，在我们现如今的工作和生活方式中，存在着太多不必要的阻力与内耗。而在眼下阻碍这一切的头号干扰因素，我认为就是科技——这实在太令人遗憾了，因为科技本身同时也是现代人类文明中最令人赞叹的发明之一。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: This is a biological system. Isn't it a good idea to take a step back and learn how the system actually works? I just feel like there's so much friction with how we're working and living today. And I would say the number one thing that seems to be getting in the way of all of this is at the moment technology which is such a shame because it's also and the most amazing piece of I would say modern human invention.
### 脑雾、被剥夺的独处与重新听见内在心声 **主持人**：你刚才提到了创新。创新者经常考虑的一点就是“以客户为中心，逆向推导”——先透彻理解客户的问题，然后再反向推导出解决方案。所以今天我也想用同样的挑战来向你提问。作为一名面向公众的科普传播者，你在生产力领域收到了大量大众的反馈，他们究竟在为什么而苦苦挣扎？他们自己平时又是用什么词汇来描述这种困境的？他们该如何将你刚才讲的这一切与自身联系起来？换句话说，在他们自己的脑海里，通常是用什么词语来定义你所要解决的那个痛点的？
Original English **Host**: You said innovation there. One of the things that innovators often think about is working backwards from the customer. I understanding the customer problem and then reverse engineering a solution from there. So I present you with the same challenge with my audience today. Having been out there as a public communicator, you've received a lot of feedback from people as it relates to productivity on what they're really struggling with and how they like describe it in their own words. How can they relate to everything you've just said? Like what are the words that in their head they're using to describe the problem that your work solves?
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：我听到最多的词是“脑雾”（Brain fog）。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: I hear a lot about brain fog.
**主持人**：好的。
Original English **Host**: Okay,
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：那确实是一个极为普遍的核心痛点。我记得曾经共事过的一位女性首席执行官，她说了一句让我至今记忆犹新的话：“我终于能重新听见自己内心的想法了。”这句话一直深深印在我的脑海里。我当时心里想：“那你之前的想法都去哪儿了？”而这正是令人心碎的真相。我认为人们现在已经不再倾听了，我们再也听不见自己内心的声音。整个世界似乎陷入了一种无法与自己独处的全局性不适感，我们处于全天候 24 小时被彻底分散注意力的状态。在我们所有的工作任务、待办事项、会议和通话的每一个间隙与碎片分钟里，全都被科技产品和无休止的刷屏填满了。我们只是在不断地被动消费信息。如果你把自己长期置于那样一种环境和状态中，你的大脑又能在何时自发地说一句：“嘿，要是这样做会怎样？” 我治愈不了癌症，那不是我的专业领域；很多令人惊叹的事业我无法亲身参与，当下很多人为了让世界变得更美好所攻坚的课题我也不擅长。但是，如果我能在微小的层面帮助人们解除枷锁，让他们能放手去世界上做他们想做的了不起的事情；如果我能将关于专注力、能量管理、注意力和生产效能的科学重新带回我们的生活，那么这就是我能尽的微薄之力，帮助大家去完成所有想做的伟大事业，同时依然能够拥有幸福感。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: that's a big one. I remember working with this female CEO. She said something that's always stuck with me and she's like, I can hear my own thoughts again. That's always stayed with me. I'm like, where were your thoughts before? And that's the heartbreaking truth. I think people aren't we're not listening. We don't hear the inside of ourselves anymore. I think there's some sort of global discomfort with being with ourselves and we've been distracted completely 24/7. Like every little second and minute in between all of our tasks and to-dos and meetings and calls and this and that is filled in with technology and scrolling. We're just constantly consuming. And if you put yourself into that sort of setup and state, when is it that you your mind is supposed to say, "Hey, what about this? I can't cure cancer. That's not my area. I can't do some of the amazing things that people right now are working on, the problems that they're working on to make the world a better place. But in some small part, if I can help unblock people to go do the amazing things that they want to do in the world, if I can just bring the science of productivity and performance, of focus, energy management, attention, all of these things back into our lives, then this is my small part that I can help people do all of the amazing things that they want to do and still be happy.
### 神经可塑性与“Becoming Superhuman”的科学实践 **主持人**：你汲取这些洞见的背景经验和参考坐标是什么？你在哪里深造求学？目前在管理什么机构？开展过哪些研究？
Original English **Host**: What is the experience and the reference points that you you draw from? Where did you study? What what is it you run now? What studies have you done?
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：我是“Becoming Superhuman 实验室”的创始人兼董事总经理。这是一个专注于且痴迷于生产力与人类效能研究的实验室。我们的目标是帮助人们用最少的时间、最小的压力来完成最多的工作。我的整个学术生涯都是在加州大学伯克利分校（UC Berkeley）度过的，我的专业领域是认知神经可塑性（cognitive neuroplasticity），也就是研究大脑究竟是如何演变与重构的。这里的核心词是词根“可塑性”（plasticity）。大脑始终在持续不断地变化、演变和适应环境。而我所追求的正是去激活并运用这种特性。既然大脑一直都在变化、进化和适应，这就意味着它完全有可能变得更加卓越。这也就是为什么人们通俗地将我的实验室称作“Becoming Superhuman 实验室”，因为我真正感兴趣的领域，正是拓展诸如专注时长、记忆力以及综合流体智力等能力。对于我们所拥有的这些认知特质和认知技能，我希望能够把它们的上限旋钮全部调大。我希望让人类变得更好、更快、更强。这正是我一直以来所执着追求的目标。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: I'm the founder and managing director of the Becoming Superhum Lab, which is a lab focused and obsessed with productivity and human performance. Our goal is to help people get the most done in the least amount of time with the least amount of stress. I've done my entire academic career at UC Berkeley. My area of expertise is cognitive neuroplasticity. So how the brain actually changes and evolves. Key word there sort of that root plastic plasticity. So the brain is constantly changing and evolving and adapting. Uh and I'd like to tap into that. If the brain is constantly changing, evolving and adapting, that means it could be getting better. Which is why my, you know, my lab has colloquially been called the becoming superhuman lab because my area of interest is increasing things like your attention span, your memory, your general fluid intelligence. So these cognitive traits that we have and these cognitive skills, I want to increase the volume on all of those things. I want to make people better, faster, stronger. So that's that's what I've always been obsessed with.
**主持人**：等等，你能让我变成超人？
Original English **Host**: Wait, you can make me superhuman.
**Sahar Yousef 博士**：可以说是这样。不过我们首先得对它下一个准确的定义。当然，确实可以。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: I mean, yes. We have to define it, though. Of course. Yes.
**主持人**：我想你现在大概已经算是相当……
Original English **Host**: I think you're probably already a fair
### 追求卓越与真实的人性限度 **Stephen Bartlett**: 不，不，不，绝对还有提升的空间，相信我。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: No, no, no, no, no. There's room for improvement. Trust me.
**Dr. Sahar**: 对我自己来说也是一样，一直都有提升空间。虽然我对自己所宣讲的理念实践得相当多，但归根结底，我们大家终究都只是普通人类。
Original English **Dr. Sahar**: I for myself as well. Always. But I do practice quite a bit of what I preach, but you know, we are human at the end of the day.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 但我还是希望能变得像超人一样强。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: But I would like to be superhuman.
**Dr. Sahar**: 好的。
Original English **Dr. Sahar**: Okay.
### 观察高管的真实日常：透明玻璃盒中的注意力危机 **Stephen Bartlett**: 所以希望我们今天能在这方面有所突破。你之前提到曾和一位女性首席执行官共事。你接触过的人群分布大致是怎样的？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: So, hopefully we can do that today. You mentioned working with a female CEO there. What is the broad spectrum of people that you've worked with?
**Dr. Sahar**: 我跟很多高管都合作过。我早期合作过的高管之一——当然我不能透露姓名，但那是财富十强（Fortune 10）级别的顶尖企业。我过去常常进行现场实地观察。打个比方，如果我为你做这种观察，流程通常是这样的：你会对我说：“好吧，接下来的几天里，这位看起来神神叨叨的女博士、神经科学家会全程跟着我，就单纯站在一旁观察我。” 我会事无巨细地记录所有细节，从你一整天下来吃什么、喝什么，到你是否会中途休息，以及你的工作方式。我会跟着你去参加你的一连串会议，基本上就是陪在你身边，进行现场观察并做笔记。观察结束后，我们会进行系统性的梳理与重构，随后我会介入并指导说：“好了，这些地方统统都需要做彻底的改变。” 我对其中的一次经历有着极其深刻的记忆，因为那成了我职业生涯中一个巨大的转折点。当时我正坐在那位高管的办公室里。如你所能想象的那样，那间办公室非常具有现代感，四处全都是大面积的通透玻璃。
Original English **Dr. Sahar**: I worked with a lot of executives. One of the first execs I worked with, and of course I can't say who, but it would be a Fortune 10 company. I used to do these observations. So, let's say if I did this for you by the way: you'd say, "Okay, for the next couple of days I'm going to have this weird doctor lady, this neuroscientist, follow me around, and she's just observing me." Like, I would notice everything from what you're eating and drinking throughout the course of the day, if you take breaks, how you work. I'd follow you to a bunch of your meetings. You know, I'm just with you for a bit, observing, taking notes, and then we would do an overhaul. Then I would intervene and be like, "All right, this is going to get changed up." And I have this very distinct memory because this was a huge point of transition for my work. I'm sitting there in his office, and it's modern, as you might glass everywhere, you know.
**Dr. Sahar**: 他就那样坐在一个正处于繁忙办公楼层正中央的全玻璃透明盒子里。这是一家财富十强的科技巨头，而他是这里的最高领导者。这种设计意味着他能看清外面的每一个人，而外面走过的每个人也都能一览无余地注视着他。 想象一下，你把这样一个人类——一个掌管着数百亿美元资产、极其聪明顶尖的人才，放进了一个四周全透明的玻璃盒子里。除此以外，还要提醒你的是，他当时正在为一场至关重要的董事会会议准备演示汇报文稿（deck）。这项任务事关重大，他正在整合各个不同团队汇交上来的繁杂数据，仔细审阅分析各种报表，并在此刻做出一系列重大的商业决策。 他当时还对我说：“是啊，我手头正在做这件事呢。” 我说：“没问题，你按你的节奏做你的事，我只坐在后方观察。” 接着我看着他。他正在电脑前工作，但他配了第二台外接显示器，而那台第二显示器上赫然敞开着他的电子邮件收件箱。此外，他的手边还平放着两部智能手机——一部是个人生活手机，一部是工作业务手机，两部手机的屏幕全都朝上摆在离他咫尺之遥的位置。与此同时，他的手腕上还戴着一块 Apple Watch。 因此，每当他试图坐定下来集中精神时，眼前的情形就是这样：各种各样的提示在不断涌现，外面的人流走廊里来回穿梭，而到了某个时刻，他的幕僚长（Chief of Staff）又突然推门走进来叮嘱说：“打扰一下，千万别忘了这件事。” 他只能连连应付着回应：“嗯，知道了。” 他就坐在那里，斯蒂芬，我向你发誓，他在受到干扰前能够连续专注的时间，可能大概只有短短的 30 秒。
Original English **Dr. Sahar**: So he's sitting in a glass box in the middle of a busy floor. This is Fortune tech and he's the boss. So everybody can like, you know, he can see everyone, everyone can see him. So you've now put this human being, this extremely intelligent human being that controls billions of dollars, and you've put him in a glass box. Now, he also has—and mind you, he's working on a deck for a board meeting. It's extremely important. He's pulling together data that different teams have sent him, and he's looking at things. He's making pretty big decisions. And he's like, "Yeah, that's what I'm doing." I'm like, "That's fine. You do you. I'll be back here." And I see him. He's on his computer, but he has a second monitor. And the second monitor has his email open. And then he has two phones, personal and professional, and they're both face up right next to him. And he had an Apple Watch on. So, as he's sitting down to focus, it's just like—and then all of this is happening, and then there's people walking by, and then at some point his chief of staff comes in and he's just like, "Excuse me, you know, don't forget this." And he's like, "Uh-uh." So, he's sitting there. I swear, Stephen, he probably got 30 seconds.
### 数字卫生与生物法则：重新找回作为“人”的基础性能 **Dr. Sahar**: 你知道吗，曾经有一项权威研究表明：知识工作者在被另一个屏幕分心打扰之前，能够在单个屏幕上保持专注的平均时长，仅仅只有 47 秒。 设想一下，如果我对你说：我想给你提供十亿美元的充足资金，在背后竭尽全力为你提供全方位的支持与建议，但你的核心目标是攻克并治愈癌症这一关乎全人类的重大疾病，全靠你来挑起大梁，希望你能团结并调动全球最杰出的顶尖头脑来共同解决这个举世瞩目的全球性难题。面对如此崇高的使命，你会希望他们如何展开研究与攻坚？你会让他们戴着一块不断震动的 Apple Watch，任凭 Slack 消息与通知铺天盖地轰炸，然后用无休止的会议和电话排满他们的一整天，寄希望于他们在接下来的几年里能够把这个绝症攻克出来吗？ 理想情况下，你绝对会希望他们置身于一个没有干扰的纯净环境与系统配置中，不让他们最宝贵的思考精力被白白消耗和挥霍。他们不会大清早一觉醒来，就被各种琐事劈头盖脸地打断：“哦，对了，先别去琢磨那个攻克癌症的大课题了，你得赶紧接入这个线上会议，我们得紧急商讨这件杂事。” 整个一整天，注意力就在这种频繁的往复切换中被当成乒乓球一样来回抽打。这到底是在干什么？为什么就不能安安静静坐下来 20 分钟，纯粹而全神贯注地聚焦一件事呢？ 所以这甚至有点荒谬得滑稽：我受过的专业学术训练所研究的课题，其复杂程度远远超过了我现在日常对人们所反复苦口婆心讲解的内容，这真的令人啼笑皆非。我们其实只需要集中精力把这种混乱的局面彻底清理整顿好。这就是为什么我将其称之为“数字卫生”（digital hygiene）。 在通往高生产力、巅峰表现与深度专注的道路上，横亘着太多人为制造的障碍。暂且先别好高骛远地谈论如何成为“超人”了，我们当前首要的任务，仅仅是先回归成为一个正常的“人”。在场的各位，我们大家是否真正从根本上搞清楚了人体这个精密生物系统究竟是如何运转的，从而让我们能够重新接纳并敬畏这些基本的生物学规律呢？你看，归根结底我们还是绕回了这一点。
Original English **Dr. Sahar**: You know, the average, there was a study done, 47 seconds is the average amount of time a knowledge worker stays focused on one screen before another one distracts him. If I told you, I want to give you a billion dollars and I'm here to support you, you know, and advise in any way that I can, but your goal is in fact, let's say, to cure cancer, and it's you. So hopefully you can galvanize the best minds from all around the world. How would you want them to go about trying to solve this global issue of such importance? Would you strap them up with an Apple Watch, a bunch of notifications, a Slack, and then litter their day with a bunch of meetings and calls, and then hope that in the next few years they cure this thing? Ideally, you want them to be in an environment with a setup that is not distracting and like doesn't waste their best thinking. They don't wake up in the morning and it's like, "Oh, hey, by the way, instead of thinking about that whole cancer bit, you need to jump onto this call and we need to talk about this thing," and it's just constant ping-ponging like this all day. What is this? Just sit down for 20 minutes and just focus. So, it's almost—what's hysterical is I studied far more complex things than I find myself talking to people about, which is hysterical. We just need to focus on cleaning this up. That's why I call it digital hygiene. There are obstacles in the way of productivity and performance and focus. Forget becoming superhuman. We just need to become human. Do we all understand collectively here how this human system works so that we can accept again those laws of biology? As you see, we come back to this.
### 从认知到落地：特别线上互动工作坊公告 **Stephen Bartlett**: The Diary of a CEO 的听众朋友们，我们即将尝试一项前所未有的全新创举。有非常多的听众经常向我反馈，说你们收听这些探讨身心健康、生产力提升与自我精进的节目，但听完之后心里总会悬着一个疑问：“我现在具体该做些什么？我又该如何把这些科学理论切实融入并落地到我自己的日常生活中呢？” 因此，我们将开创全球先河：我们将把本期节目的深度内容转化为一场由我和萨哈尔博士（Dr. Sahar）共同主持的线上工作坊。我们会录制并开展一场可供大家实时参与的现场互动工作坊，在其中逐一拆解、推演本期播客中探讨的每一个核心议题，并为大家提供切实可行的解决方案与可立即操作的工具，让大家能够直接将它们融入自己的生活中，立竿见影地见效。 这是我们节目有史以来第一次做出这样的尝试。但正是在我和萨哈尔博士展开了大家即将听到的这番深度长谈之后，我内心油然而生一个强烈的念头：这期对话里蕴藏着极其庞大的高价值信息，但我们究竟该如何帮助大家将它们转化为能够持久维持的行动习惯？ 因此，如果你渴望加入这场线上直播互动工作坊，屏幕上已经给出了参与链接，下方简介区也附带了专属链接。由于本次工作坊设置了严格的席位名额限制，能够入场参与的人数非常有限。如果你确实想参加，请务必尽快报名抢位——我指的是字面意义上的在接下来的 10 秒之内立即行动，这样你便能成为首批参与《The Diary of a CEO》全球首创互动工作坊的成员之一。在工作坊中，你将与我和嘉宾面对面交流，我们将把今天所学到的一切理论知识打磨成实操工具，助力改变你职业发展与个人生活的人生轨迹。我迫不及待地期待在现场与你们相聚！
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: DOAC gang. We're going to do something we've never done before. So many of you tell me that you listen to these episodes about wellness, health, productivity, bettering yourself. But there's always this question which is like, what do I do about it now? And how do I implement it into my life? So, we're going to do a world first. We are going to turn this episode into an online workshop with me and Sahar where we're going to film a live interactive workshop that you can attend and we're going to work through every single thing that was discussed in this episode and give you solutions and actionable tools that you can put into your life straight away. This is the first time we've ever done this, but I had this conversation with Dr. Sahar that you're about to hear and I just thought, you know what, there's going to be so much information here, but how do we turn this into actions that stick? So if you want to come to this live workshop, there is a link on screen and there's a link down below. There is only a certain amount of people that can join the workshop because we do have a limit. So if you do want to come, please sign up ASAP. I mean literally within the next 10 seconds and you'll be one of the first to take part in a DOAC world first, which is an interactive workshop with me and the guest as we turn everything you learned today into tools that can hopefully change the trajectory of your professional and your personal life. Can't wait to see some of you there.
### 寻找改善表现的第一张多米诺骨牌：地基与睡眠 **Stephen Bartlett**: 我对你刚才说的一切都深有同感，感同身受。这一方面是因为我自己就是一名企业高管；但在这种情境下，其实你究竟是不是高管根本无关紧要，因为我们所有人都共同生活在这个极度嘈杂、充满各种干扰与噪音的现代世界里。 我现在非常渴望全面剖析你所提到的整套解决方案——你把这称为排除道路上的一切障碍，全方位清理并优化我们的数字环境与实体物理环境。 我们面前摆着一个盒子。虽然你并不想把它做成一个手机软件应用，但你所探讨的部分核心方法和工具其实就装在这个盒子里。 我想，作为任何一个渴望打拼出毕生最巅峰工作成果、保持清晰敏锐思维、做好高质量访谈对话、成功创业建立商业帝国、不断创新突破、迸发源源不断创造力的人——也就是你在刚才的阐述中所描绘的所有这些卓越状态——我都极度渴望了解：究竟应该从哪里作为一切改变的起点？促动全局的第一张多米诺骨牌到底是什么？比如，如果我把睡眠质量彻底提上去，这就是关键解药吗？我必须去练习冥想吗？究竟哪一个是破局的核心？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: I can relate so much to everything you just said, in part because I'm an executive, but actually it doesn't really matter if you're an executive in this context because we all live in this very, very noisy world. I want to now go through all of the solutions. You called it getting all the obstacles out of our way, cleaning up our digital and physical environments. There is a box here. You didn't want to make it an app, but there is some of the stuff you talk about is in this box. I guess as someone that wants to be able to do the best work of my life, think clearly, interview well, build businesses, innovate, be creative, all of those things that you were pointing at through your explanations, I want to know like where's the first place to start? What's the first domino? Like if I up my sleep, is that the—do I have to meditate? Like what is the—
**Dr. Sahar**: 有一个根本性的核心基石我必须首先开门见山地点出来，那就是你自己刚才也已经提及的睡眠。这千真万确。顺便提一下，我平时谈论睡眠的方式是这样的——我希望这个生动的具象画面能够深深烙印在你的脑海里，也同样印在收听我们节目的每一位听众的心中。 我曾有过很多独特且令人难忘的执业经历：许多首席执行官和高管拖着极度憔悴、疲惫不堪的躯体来到我面前，尤其是那些整日拼命死磕（grinding）的初创企业创始人。他们走到我面前咨询说：“好的博士，我希望能让自己的整体表现提升 1%。” 然后我一调研发现，他们平均每晚居然只有短短 5 个小时的睡眠时间。 我常常这样对他们说：“好，那我能不能为你勾勒一副生动的画面，让你明白你现在的状态到底像什么？这就像是你把自己的车开进了汽修厂进行检修。而作为修车技师的我抬眼一看，你整辆车其实都已经燃起了熊熊大火。字面意义上的大火，烈焰正在四处吞噬。而你就坐在驾驶座上，对自己整辆车正处于烈火焚烧之中浑然不觉，甚至还探出头兴致勃勃地问我：‘师傅，咱们能不能给这台引擎加装个涡轮改装升级一下，让它跑得更快？’ 我只能当场对他说：‘老兄，咱们先把你车上的大火彻底扑灭好吗？在火扑灭之前，我甚至都无从下手去评估你目前最基础的底线机能表现究竟处于什么水准。’” 事实正是如此。当你没有获得充足的睡眠时——顺便提醒大家一句，健康睡眠的底线是每晚至少睡满 7 个小时。如果你长期睡眠匮乏，你的认知功能会遭受直接重创，你的情绪调节中枢也会全面紊乱。于是，你在办公室里、在与同事及其他人的相处中，就会变得极度易怒、暴躁乖戾。整个内在生理系统的平衡彻底被毁坏了。 因此，睡眠毫无疑问是承载一切的绝对地基。
Original English **Dr. Sahar**: There's one that I have to begin with the foundational, which you already mentioned yourself as sleep. That's true. The way that I by the way talk about sleep, and I hope this visual stays in your mind and maybe the mind of the listeners here. And I've had the interesting and distinct pleasure of having many a CEO and an executive who is haggarded, tired, especially the founders that are grinding, come to me and ask, "Okay, I want to become 1% better." And I find out that they're averaging 5 hours of sleep a night. Like, okay, can I paint a picture for you what this feels like? It feels like you've taken your car to the mechanic, and as a mechanic I'm looking at it, and the thing is on fire. Like it's literally like it's on fire. The flames are—and then you're sitting there like unaware of the fact that it's on fire, and you're like, "Can we soup up the engine?" I'm like, "Dude, let's put the fire out first. I don't even know where to begin to assess your baseline performance." So that's the thing. When you don't get enough sleep—and mind you, that's a minimum of 7 hours a night. If you're not getting enough sleep, it's impacting your cognitive performance, your emotional regulation. So, you'll be irascible, you know, in the office and with other people. Like the system is messed up. So, sleep is for sure the foundation.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 明白了，我们必须首先确保落实这项核心前提。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Okay,
**Dr. Sahar**: 我们必须先把这个基础复选框牢牢打上勾。而我接下来要告诉你的第二大极其关键的问题——我现在就可以明确地向你断言，这同样是一场席卷全人类的全球性危机。它就是……
Original English **Dr. Sahar**: We got to check that box. I would say next biggest thing that I will tell you right now, this is a global issue. It is...
### 手机锁盒与专注力机制 **Sahar**: ……影响着从老年人到儿童的每一个人。这关乎你与科技之间的关系。
Original English **Sahar**: ...impacting everyone from senior citizens to children. It's your relationship with technology.
**Stephen**: 那是什么东西？
Original English **Stephen**: What is that?
**Sahar**: 这是一个手机锁盒。理论上，我们会把你的电子设备放进里面，然后锁起来让你拿不到。你想试试吗？
Original English **Sahar**: This is a phone lock box. So, we would theoretically put your technology inside and then lock it away from you. You want to do it?
**Stephen**: 好啊。来吧。
Original English **Stephen**: Yeah. Yeah. Go for it.
**Sahar**: 好。先确认它关机了。
Original English **Sahar**: Okay. Let me just make sure it's off.
**Stephen**: 让我先把一些东西清理掉。
Original English **Stephen**: Like, let me just get rid of some of the things.
**Sahar**: 好的，把那个反过来放。放好了。你倒不一定非得买个锁盒，但这类东西的意义在于：作为一个人，你的大脑本该是一台专注于单任务的专注机器，这样才能真正集中注意力。
Original English **Sahar**: Okay. Turn that upside down. There we go. You don't necessarily need to get a lock box, but the point of something like this is for you as a human being and your brain as a focus machine, as a monotasking machine to actually be able to focus.
### 注意力与记忆力不可分割 **Sahar**: 专注与注意力是所有事情的基石，无论是在个人生活还是职业生涯中。这意味着，任何削弱你专注力的分心事物，都在直接影响你的记忆力。记忆力的另一个代名词就是学习，对吧？
Original English **Sahar**: Focus and attention are so fundamental to all things, personal and professional. That means any kind of distraction that is diminishing your focus is impacting your memory. Another word for memory is learning, right?
**Stephen**: 嗯。
Original English **Stephen**: Mhm.
**Sahar**: 顺便说一句，注意力和记忆力这两个概念根本无法剥离。它们之间有着最紧密、最深刻的联系。它们相连的机制在于：你无法记住任何你没有投入注意力的事情。仔细想想这一点。只有进入你注意力光圈范围内的东西，你才会在一开始意识到它的存在。所以，除非我们保持专注，否则我们什么也学不会，什么也记不住。而自这种东西（智能手机）问世以来，我们的注意力持续时间，也就是维持专注的能力，一直在呈线性下降。
Original English **Sahar**: Attention and memory, by the way, it's impossible to divorce those concepts from one another. They're connected in the most connected way that they can be. The way that they're connected is you cannot remember anything that you do not attend to. You think about that. It is only things that come into your aperture of attention that you're aware of in the first place. So we cannot learn anything. We cannot remember anything unless we're paying attention. And attention spans, our ability to sustain attention has been linearly decreasing since the advent of this thing.
**Sahar**: 我不想让大家以为这仅仅是手机的问题。其实是所有通知的问题。如果你整天都在盯着收件箱，而且它随时都摆在你面前触手可及，你还打算怎么进行深度思考？
Original English **Sahar**: And I don't want people to think it's just phones necessarily. It's notifications in general. And if you're monitoring your inbox all day and it's constantly available to you, what's your plan for having deep thoughts?
### “万一有急事怎么办”与信件隐喻 **Stephen**: 我脑海里马上冒出一个反驳的念头，虽然我心里其实也不认同这个反驳，但我猜我和我的很多听众此刻都会这么想：“话是这么说，但万一有突发情况呢？我之所以开着邮箱，是因为可能随时会有一封非常重大的邮件发过来；或者我把 WhatsApp 挂在旁边，是因为我未婚妻可能会发消息让我给她开门之类的。你知道的，总觉得会发生什么意外状况。”
Original English **Stephen**: The rebuttal that comes to mind, although I don't even believe it, but this is the rebuttal that I think a lot of me and my listeners will be thinking right now. Yes, but what if something happens? I have my email open because maybe a big email comes in or I have my WhatsApp right there because maybe my fiance is going to tell me I need to let her in the house or something, you know, something's going to happen.
**Sahar**: 完全理解。我们称之为“救火”，对吧？突发火情、紧急事件。我懂，我也是照料者，我完全明白这种焦虑。顺便说一下，我把这些称为 VIP 消息或 VIP 通知。我能为你打个比方描绘一下这个场景吗？
Original English **Sahar**: Totally. Fires. So, we call them, right? Fires, urgencies. I get it. I'm a caretaker. I get it. I call these, by the way, VIPs. These are VIP notifications and messages. Can I paint a picture for you for a second?
**Stephen**: 好啊。
Original English **Stephen**: Yeah.
**Sahar**: 在传统的邮政系统里，我们其实早就解决了这个问题。如果你家里有一个极其重要的包裹寄过来，邮政系统是怎么处理的？有人会走过来敲门，而且这个包裹必须签收。我们绝不能把它扔在门外不管，必须有人在家。“咚咚咚”地敲门，走到你面前引起你的注意。在我看来，那声敲门声、那个必须签收的要求，就是一条真正的通知，那就是所谓的“紧急火情”，对吧？
Original English **Sahar**: We figured this out for mail. If you have an extremely important package coming to your house, how do we deal with this in the mail system? Somebody knocks. It needs a signature. Like, we're not leaving this outside. Somebody needs to be home. Knock knock knock. I'm going to come and get your attention. To me, that knock—you need to sign for this—is a notification. That's the fire, right?
**Stephen**: 而其他所有的东西，顺便说一句，都直接塞进邮箱里了……
Original English **Stephen**: And everything else, by the way, just gets shoved in the mailbox...
**Stephen**: 或者直接堆在门边。
Original English **Stephen**: ...or left by the door.
### 拒绝默认设置：商业利益与生产力的天然冲突 **Sahar**: 这正是我所倡导的理念。顺便说一句，我们每个人都足够聪明，也应该真正给予自己足够的尊重，去要求获得比我们的 App、电子邮件、手机所自带的默认设置更好的体验。我们所有科技产品的默认设置，顺便提一句，正是由像我这样的人设计的。那些在这些大公司工作的认知神经科学家、行为神经科学家，设计这些就是为了让你彻底上瘾。
Original English **Sahar**: This is what I advocate for. We are all by the way smart enough. We should respect ourselves enough truly to demand better than the default settings that our apps, our email, our phones come with. The default settings of all of our technology are designed, by the way, by people like me. These are cognitive neuroscientists, behavioral neuroscientists that work at these companies to get you hooked.
**Sahar**: 因为如果你仔细想想，即便是微软 Outlook 这样的工具——姑且不提 TikTok 之类那些娱乐软件，先把它搁在一边——就说维持这个世界运转的那些枯燥工具，对于我们这些职场成年人来说最重要的电子邮件，你觉得它们的底层利益诉求到底是什么？当一家软件公司与另一家安装 Slack 等即时通信软件的企业签订年度采购合同时，你怎么确保第二年能顺利续约？
Original English **Sahar**: Because if you think about this, by the way, what's the bottom line for even Microsoft Outlook, forget like TikTok and all of that. Just leave that aside for a second. Like the boring stuff that runs the world, email for those of us adults, right? What do you think the bottom line is when you have a company that has an annual contract with another company that installs things like Slack, things like just communication software? How do you make sure that you reup that contract?
**Sahar**: 靠展示用户参与度吗？在年底的时候，向客户汇报说：“看，看看这些活跃度数据！每个人都在用，大家全天候 24 小时都在不停地互相沟通。所以没有我们，你们的业务根本运转不下去。”这意味着，这些软件和产品从一开始设计出来，就是为了在人类极限范围内尽可能最大化参与度。
Original English **Sahar**: Do you show engagement? At the end of the year, you go, "Look, look at these engagement numbers. Everyone is using, everyone's constantly talking to each other 24/7. So, you can't do what you do without us." So, that means the way that these softwares and products are designed is for them to be as engaging as humanly possible.
**Sahar**: 所以，你手机出厂时的默认设置，你下载到手机上的每一个 App 的默认设置，电子邮件以及我们团队使用的所有消息软件的默认设置，统统都是为了最大化你的使用时长与参与度，而不是为了让你的公司更具生产力。这些公司根本不在乎你的工作效率。那不是他们的问题，那是你自己的问题，你得自己想办法解决。
Original English **Sahar**: So, the default setting that your phone comes with, the default setting of every single app that you download on that phone of yours, the default setting of email, of any messaging software that all of our teams use, the default setting is there to maximize engagement, not to make your company more productive. These companies don't give a damn about your productivity. That's not their problem. That's your problem. You need to figure that part out.
**Sahar**: 我一直强烈呼吁大家从默认设置的角度去反思这一切。我自己很喜欢吃甜食，就拿巧克力公司或糖果公司来打个比方吧。他们的底层诉求是什么？他们希望从我这个消费者身上得到什么？
Original English **Sahar**: I'm a big advocate for thinking about this in the sense of default settings because it is in fact—I have a sweet tooth. So think of a chocolate company, a candy company. What is their bottom line? What do they want out of me as a customer?
**Stephen**: 你说的“底层诉求”，对于那些不熟悉这个词的人来说，意思就是利润驱动的动机，对吧？
Original English **Stephen**: And when you say bottom line, for those that don't know, you mean profit incentive, right?
**Sahar**: 没错。他们的目标就是在人类极限内尽可能多地推销他们的产品。至于我会不会得糖尿病，或者我是否有过度消费、暴饮暴食的问题，这是他们的职责或责任所在吗？根本不是。
Original English **Sahar**: Yes. Yeah. Okay. Their goal is to sell as much of their product as humanly possible. Is it their business or responsibility to think about whether or not I get diabetes or if I'm having trouble with overconsumption? Not really.
**Sahar**: 电子邮件同样如此。任何类型的平台都是如此。参与度就是它们的通用货币。所以，从你邮件客户端发送邮件时发出的细微提示音——那是经过反复测试的，专门测试出哪种声音让人类听起来感觉最舒服、最悦耳；再到你手机里的震动触感反馈机制，所有这一切都经过了像我这样的专家的深度调优，目的就是让你对这个设备保持痴迷、沉迷其中，从而提高你在该平台上的参与度。
Original English **Sahar**: Well, the same is true for email. The same is true for any kind of platform. Its engagement is the currency. So everything from the sound that your email client makes when you send an email off, that's been tested of what will feel the best and sound the best to the human. Everything from the vibrate functionality that you feel in your phone has been highly optimized by people like me to keep you obsessed with the thing and addicted to the thing to increase your engagement on the platform.
**Sahar**: 因此，为了达成提高生产力的目标，我极力主张我们首先应该专注于消除那些侵蚀我们生产力的黑洞。这听起来显而易见，但很多人完全没有意识到：生产力工具的驱动目标其实根本不是你个人的生产力，而是你对这个工具的依赖和使用频次。
Original English **Sahar**: And so my big push in the goal of, again, productivity, the first thing we ought to really focus in on is getting rid of the drains of our productivity first. It sounds obvious, but it's totally not obvious that a productivity tool's incentive actually isn't your own productivity. It is your engagement with the tool.
**Stephen**: 是的。你说得完全没错。因为当这些公司向投资者或其他相关方汇报时，他们必须拿出用户参与度的数据，证明你使用了多少次。在某种程度上，帮助你排除干扰反而与这些工具的商业使命背道而驰，因为在你的定义下，参与度和分心几乎是对立的概念。就像 Slack，打着让我工作表现更出色的旗号，实际上却不断让我分心。
Original English **Stephen**: Yeah, because you're totally right. When these companies report to investors or whatever, they have to show how much engagement, how much you used it. And it's almost antithetical to the mission of the tool for them to be removing your distraction in that regard because engagement and distraction are like opposites in the way that you describe them. Like Slack is distracting me under the premise that it's making me better at my work.
### 告别默认设置：建立 VIP 过滤机制 **Sahar**: 确实如此。这就是为什么每当我听到这些产品和工具称自己为“生产力软件”时，我都会嗤之以鼻。我并不是说我们不需要相互沟通。我的团队成员分布在不同的时区，我们显然非常需要沟通。人类物种历史上从未能够以如此巨大的规模进行协作与沟通，这项技术本身是不可思议的。我并不是卢德主义者（反技术者）。我所主张的是，大家应该时刻用这句座右铭提醒自己：“我值得比默认设置更好的对待，我本就不该受限于默认设置。”默认设置的存在从来不是为了帮助你的。
Original English **Sahar**: Absolutely. Which is why I sort of scoff when I hear some of these products and tools call themselves productivity software because—and I'm not suggesting we don't need to communicate with each other. I have team members in different time zones. Obviously we've never as a human species been able to communicate and collaborate at this scale. Technology is amazing. I'm not a Luddite. What I advocate for is people telling themselves this mantra of: I deserve better than the default; I am better than the default settings. The default settings are not there to help you.
**Stephen**: 那么，对于像我这样屏幕使用时间显示每天要花大概 10 个小时在手机上的人，你有什么具体建议？我该做些什么？
Original English **Stephen**: So, what do you suggest then for someone like me who, you know, I probably spend 10 hours a day on my phone according to my screen time. What shall I do?
**Sahar**: 好，我的首要建议——尤其是考虑到你自己也提到了对错过重要事情的恐惧，也就是我前面提到的那些突发火情、紧急状况等等——我建议在你的手机、收件箱以及每一个通信软件中，设置我所谓的“VIP 通知”。
Original English **Sahar**: Okay, my number one suggestion is—especially because you yourself brought up the fear around missing important things, right? Again, I called, you know, the fires, the urgency, so on and so forth. Is I would recommend setting up what I call VIP notifications in both your phone, your inbox, every single different communication software.
**Sahar**: 这意味着你需要整理出一份专属的 VIP 名单。这包括你的伴侣；如果你有主管，还包括你的顶头上司乃至老板的老板；如果你面向客户，那就是你最重要的前 15 位核心客户。这些人就是你的 VIP。规则是：如果这些号码打电话或发短信给我，通知可以直接穿透过滤网，没有任何防线阻挡，我需要立即收到提示。
Original English **Sahar**: And what that means is you come up with your VIP list. This is your partner, if you have a boss, your boss's boss, if you're client facing or customer facing, your top 15 clients. Like these are your VIPs. And it's if, for example, these numbers call me or text me, it pushes through the filter. There are no defenses. I need to get that immediately.
**Sahar**: 顺便说一下，我在我的电子邮箱里设置了三个关键词。至于我的名字，我稍微有点幸运，我的名字比较少见。所以如果有人提到“Sahar”，我就会觉得：“好，你找我有何贵干？”因为如果不这样设，斯蒂芬，我们在日常工作中面临的现实是什么？我们有时会被抄送进有七八个人的邮件群聊中，而他们只是在彼此闲聊。我根本不需要每次斯泰西和史蒂文在群里聊到某些事情时，手机都要跟着响一声提示……
Original English **Sahar**: I have three keywords, by the way, set up in my email inbox. My first name—I'm a little lucky. I have a more rare first name. So, if somebody says Sahar, I'm like, "Okay, you've got—what is it?" You know, cuz otherwise, what's our reality, Stephen? Like, we are CCd on email chains with like seven other people sometimes and they're just talking to each other. I do not need to get a ping every single time Stacy and Steven are chatting with each other about...
### 专注的代价：对不必要的事物默认说“不” **女嘉宾**：……某些事情，他们正在解决他们自己的问题。作为领导者，我需要专注于领导工作，不需要介入并说“看，你们大家正在解决这个”。我并不是说我有时不想被抄送——我需要随时了解进展，但我不需要被打扰。当我终于坐下来集中注意力时，我的思路不需要被打断。
Original English **Female Guest**: ...something. They're solving their own problem. Like, I need to focus on leading. I don't need to be get like you're all figuring this out. And I'm not saying I do kind of want to be CCed sometimes. I need to be kept abreast of what's going on, but I don't need to be interrupted. My train of thought doesn't need to be interrupted when I'm finally sitting down to focus.
**男主持**：很多人只是不想显得粗鲁，而且社会上存在着巨大的压力，催促人们要迅速回复、答应别人的要求、去开会、去办事、去参加各种活动。所以我想问你的是：在这方面，你见过的最专注的人是谁？我的另一个延伸问题是：我敢打赌，他们往往会被人认为很无鲁，或者说他们必须练就一种对抗“讨好型人格”的心理力量。
Original English **Male Host**: A lot of people don't want to be rude, and there's so much social pressure to respond quickly, to say yes, to take the meeting, to do the thing, go to the whatever. So, the question I was going to ask you is who is like the most focused person you've ever met in this regard? And then my sort of sub question was like I bet they're often seen as rude. Or like I bet they have to develop a muscle against people pleasing.
**女嘉宾**：确实如此。老实说，我脑海中浮现出的第一个人其实就是我丈夫。他是大学教员，他就在那儿呢。
Original English **Female Guest**: Indeed. Yeah. I honestly probably the first person that came to my mind is honestly my husband. Yeah. Who's a faculty? He's here.
**男主持**：不，他在那个房间里，对吧？
Original English **Male Host**: No, he's in there, isn't he?
**女嘉宾**：除了对我之外……
Original English **Female Guest**: Um besides me,
**男主持**：之后会给他回应的权利。
Original English **Male Host**: You'll get a right to reply.
**女嘉宾**：除了对我之外，他对绝大多数事情的默认态度都是“不”。我感觉每个人都有一个默认预设值：我是那种习惯默认说“好”的人，而他是默认说“不”的人。我们一起经营一家公司；顺便提一句，让一个默认说“不”和一个默认说“好”的两个人共同掌舵，我认为构成了一种绝佳的平衡，因为我们会为此进行充分的辩论。
Original English **Female Guest**: Like besides to me, he mostly he's a like his default is no. I have a sense everyone has a default. I'm a default yes person, you know, and he's a default no person. We run a company together, which by the way, two people at the helm that's default no, default yes, I think makes a really good balance because we debate it out.
**女嘉宾**：每件事都会演变成讨论。我会说：“噢，多好的机会啊，我们绝对应该做这个！”而他则会说：“这不是我们的目标，请紧扣目标。”我就会辩解：“可是，你看这个闪亮的新事物、这个新项目等等。”然后就会扯到影响力以及所有那些东西。
Original English **Female Guest**: Everything becomes a discussion. I'm like, "Oh, this what a great opportunity. We should totally do this." And he's like, "This is not the objective. Stay on the object." I'm like, "Well, but this shiny new object and this thing and blah blah blah." And it's like, oh, impact and all of the things.
**女嘉宾**：他会极其严格地捍卫自己的资源，而他最宝贵的资源就是时间——他的时间和注意力。我来代他传达一下心声，他会说：“没错，可能有些人会对我没参加那个会议感到失望。但我认为大家随着时间推移会发现，我在那个会议上能提供的独特贡献其实并没有那么相关。没有我，他们也处理得很好。而我没有参加那个会议，才让我能够坐下来完成这项工作、做好这件事，并构想出这个造福整个工作生态的新点子。”
Original English **Female Guest**: He protects his resources and his most precious resource is his time. His time and his attention. I'll channel him. He'll say, "Yeah, maybe it's disappointing to some that I did not make it to that meeting. But I think people will find over time that my unique contribution to that meeting would have not been relevant. They were just fine without me. And the fact that I did not attend that meeting allowed me to sit down and finish this and do this thing and come up with this idea which is helping the entire ecosystem of work."
### 乔布斯与马斯克的专注：信号与噪声 **男主持**：我曾经坐下来采访过凯文·奥利里（Kevin O'Leary），他对我说了一番话，一直深深印在我的脑海里。而且我知道这也留在了我的听众心中，因为他们在现实中也经常向我转述这句话。他谈到了自己曾与史蒂夫·乔布斯以及埃隆·马斯克共事的经历，并且谈到了“信号与噪声”（Signal vs. Noise）的概念。
Original English **Male Host**: I sat and interviewed Kevin O'Leary and he said something to me which has stayed with me ever since. But I know it's also stayed with my listeners because they say it back to me out in the world. He talked about his experience working with Steve Jobs and also Elon Musk and he talked about this concept of signal versus noise.
**男主持**：他说乔布斯拥有一种非凡的能力，可以把注意力完全聚焦在信号而不是噪声上。他将其形容为“二八定律”（80/20法则）。对于不理解这个类比的人来说：信号就是我今天应该做的最重要的事情；噪声则是其余的一切琐事。他说乔布斯的特点在于，他总是会问：“我们为什么要谈论这个？最重要的事情是那个。” 后来我看到乔尼·艾夫（Jony Ive）接受采访，乔尼·艾夫在描述乔布斯时说道，乔布斯最惊人的特质就是他的专注力。艾夫说，专注并不是选择做一件事而不做另一件事；专注是早晨醒来，你想到一个绝妙的点子，全身上下的每一个细胞都在告诉你那是个天才般的想法，你迫切地想去实现它，但你最终依然对它说了“不”。 他说：“史蒂夫是我见过的最异乎寻常地专注的人。”乔布斯经常会走到乔尼·艾夫面前，问他今天对什么事情说了“不”。乔尼说他一开始会拿出一些“牺牲品”式的项目来应付，也就是那些他本来就丝毫不感兴趣的事情。乔布斯一眼就能看穿，并且会逼问得更紧：“全身上下的每个细胞都告诉你那是个绝妙的想法，但仅仅因为我们正在专注于手头这件事，你就必须对它说不——你究竟对哪件这样的事情说了‘不’？”这个故事的最后一部分是，凯文·奥利里说，埃隆·马斯克是他遇到的唯一一个比乔布斯还要专注的人。
Original English **Male Host**: Yes. And he said Steve Jobs had the most remarkable ability to focus on the signal versus the noise. He described it as 80/20. And for anyone that doesn't understand the analogy, signal is like the most important thing I should be doing today. Noise is everything else. He says the thing about Steve Jobs is it was always like why are we talking about this? This is the most important thing. And then I saw Jony Ive being interviewed and Jony Ive was describing Steve Jobs and Jony Ive said the most remarkable thing about Steve is his focus. And he said focus isn't doing one thing instead of another. Focus is waking up in the morning and thinking something is a brilliant idea and with every bone in your body you know that that thing is brilliant and you want to do it and you say no to it anyway. He said, "Steve was the most remarkably focused person I have ever met." And he would often go up to Jony Ive and ask him what he had said no to. And Jony said he would have these sacrificial things that he wasn't remotely interested in anyway. And Steve would know that and push him even harder. Like what have you said no to that with every bone in your body you knew was a brilliant idea, but you said no to it because we are focused on this. And the last part of that story is Kevin O'Leary said that Elon is the only person he's ever encountered that is more focused than Steve Jobs. Wow.
**男主持**：我真的……这也是为什么我如此兴奋能和你交流的部分原因，因为我想变得更像他们那样，我想达到那种抓住核心信号的“二八状态”。
Original English **Male Host**: And I really this is part of the reason why I'm so excited to speak to you because I want to be more like that. I want to get to 80/20.
**女嘉宾**：所以……你已经迈出了坚实的一步，因为你已经把你的手机交给我了。
Original English **Female Guest**: So, you're well on your way cuz you've already given me your phone.
**男主持**：我知道，我还为此感到挺焦虑的……
Original English **Male Host**: I know that's anxious about...
**女嘉宾**：我可不是在开玩笑，手机就是噪声。你可以选择增强信号，也可以选择降低噪声。你觉得哪一个更容易？
Original English **Female Guest**: I'm not even kidding though. This is the noise. You can either increase the signal or you can decrease the noise. What do you think is easier?
**男主持**：毫无疑问是降低噪声，把它作为第一步。
Original English **Male Host**: Decreasing the noise for sure. As a first step.
**女嘉宾**：作为第一步，那当然是降噪更容易。
Original English **Female Guest**: As a first step. Of course,
**男主持**：我认为实际操作中人们也确实是这么做的。虽然我对无线电技术不是极为了解，但我认为当初发明无线电时，大家的工作重心也是降低噪声。
Original English **Male Host**: I think that's actually what they do. And again, I don't know a ton about this, but I actually think that's what they did when they discovered the radio was the job was to reduce the noise.
**女嘉宾**：嗯哼。
Original English **Female Guest**: Mhm.
**男主持**：他们从来没提过要去增强信号。
Original English **Male Host**: They never mention increasing the signal
**女嘉宾**：因为增强信号相当困难；它确实可行，信号一直就在那里。
Original English **Female Guest**: cuz it's rather difficult. It's possible. It's there.
**男主持**：信号确实一直都在。
Original English **Male Host**: It's there.
### 大脑是单任务执行机器：进化的双刃剑 **女嘉宾**：关键就在于把噪声从你的生活中彻底清除出去。我们现在总以为“多任务并行”或者在不同语境之间频繁切换是一种技能。你之前提到了一个我从未听过的词——单……
Original English **Female Guest**: It's literally get the noise out of your life. We now think that multitasking or context switching is a skill and we think you mentioned a term earlier on which I've never heard. Mono...
**男主持**：单任务执行（Monotasking）。
Original English **Male Host**: Monotasking.
**女嘉宾**：你说大脑是一个单任务执行器。
Original English **Female Guest**: You said the brain is a monotasker.
**男主持**：是的，它本质上是一台单任务处理机器。
Original English **Male Host**: Yeah, it's a monotasking machine.
**女嘉宾**：怎么证明这一点呢？我们脑袋里的这个东西，真的只是一台单任务机器吗？
Original English **Female Guest**: What did prove that to me? How this thing here? This is a monotasking machine.
**男主持**：确实是，千真万确。我们整套大脑系统最初都是为了生存而设计的。我经常开玩笑说，在动物界里人类其实并没有太大竞争优势——比如我也健身，但我根本不可能肉搏打过任何真正的捕食者，我的指甲不够硬，牙齿也不够锋利，人类肉体其实相当孱弱。 然而，我们绝不孱弱的地方正是大脑。我们依靠运筹帷幄、深度思考和高度集中的能力，智胜了捕食者。人类就是这样生存下来的，也是这样统领整个世界的。你知道吗，人类大脑皮层中大约整整三分之一的“生理区域”，纯粹是专门用来观察和倾听的。
Original English **Male Host**: It is. Yes, it is. So, this entire system is designed for survival. Human beings are I always kind of joke and say we're not quite competitive in the animal kingdom. Like I mean I work out but I can't fight off like an actual predator, you know? Like my nails aren't teeth my teeth aren't that sharp. It's we are kind of puny. But where we're not puny is this. So it is in my ability to strategize, think, and focus where I can outsmart predators. That's how human beings have survived. That's how we're running the world. Do you know about a third of the human brain like the cortical real estate across this human cortex is dedicated just to looking and listening.
**女嘉宾**：这比例太大了，仅仅用来捕捉声音、留意视野中可能出现的巨大声响。因此，我们天生就会对环境中出现的任何异常保持高度警惕。想想开放式办公室吧，想想人们办公的典型环境——就像我刚才举的那个高管的例子，他坐在一间玻璃办公室里，周围所有共事的员工不停地走来走去，充斥着各种噪声，而他却试图从中找出信号、捕捉信号。我感到痛心，我希望我们的人类物种能够不断前进，以人类可能达到的最快速度向前迈进，而且我知道我们完全有这个能力，但是人类的所有才智目前正在被这些干扰因素一点点吞噬。 我在思考这个问题时发现，干扰找上我们似乎主要有两种途径：第一种是外界的通知主动弹给我们……
Original English **Female Guest**: That's a lot just eavesdropping loud sounds that might come into view. So we're designed to be hypervigilant to anything that might come in our environment which I mean think of an open office. Think of a typical setup where people are working like the example I gave of that executive literally sitting in a glass box with all the people that he works with walking by constantly and all this noise and he's trying to find the signal and he's trying to tap into the signal and I'm like no I want our species to keep advancing and I want us to advance as fast as humanly possible and I know we can but all the brilliance of humanity is currently being sucked away by these distractions. There seems to be, as I was thinking about that, there seems to be two ways that distractions find us. The first is the notification comes to us...
### 逃避不适感：寻找分心的内在诱因 **男主持**：设备发出提示音，或者Apple Watch震动。另一种情况则是，我们正在专心工作中，突然碰到了某个棘手、困难或者让人感到轻微不适的问题，于是我们便主动去寻找干扰。比如，我们可能正在写一篇文章，卡在了一个很难下笔的地方，于是我们就会顺手拿起手机打开WhatsApp，在群聊里跟朋友聊周末的计划。
Original English **Male Host**: ...or the thing pings or whatever. The Apple Watch vibrates. The other is we're in the middle of work and we stumble across something which is a little bit difficult or tricky or a little bit uncomfortable and we go seeking out the distraction. So, you know, we might be in the middle of an essay, it's a little bit tricky and so we could reach for our WhatsApp and we're chatting in a group chat about the weekend.
**女嘉宾**：没错。这是不是准确地反映了人类的行为模式？
Original English **Female Guest**: Yeah. Is that a true sort of accurate reflection of how humans behave?
**男主持**：是的，确实如此。
Original English **Male Host**: Yes,
**女嘉宾**：真是这样。因为我刚才就在反思我自己的行为。有时确实是提示音，但我其实并没有开启大多数通知；可即便是这样，我发现自己依然每隔一分钟就想去抓手机。
Original English **Female Guest**: it is. Because I was just thinking about my own behavior sometimes. Yes. Ping. I don't have notifications on. Well, I don't have most notifications on, but I still find myself reaching for the phone every minute.
**男主持**：人脑本质上是一台解决问题的机器，记住这一点至关重要。我在此结合几条生物学规律来解释，这能帮我们理解为什么所有人都有“逃避不适感”的本能倾向。说到不适感，让我们列举一些让人不舒服的情绪体验：不知所措、压力过大、焦虑不安、困惑迷茫。还有哪些？感到有些沮丧抑郁、害怕错过（FOMO）、孤独感……还有其他的吗？
Original English **Male Host**: So, the human brain is a problem-solving machine. It's important to keep this in mind. So, I'll stack a few again biological laws here. That brings us to understanding why we all have a tendency towards what I would consider to be avoidance of discomfort. Now discomfort, let's list out some uncomfortable feelings. Overwhelm, stress, anxiety, confusion. What are some other ones? You feeling a little depressed, little FOMO, lonely. What are some other ones?
**女嘉宾**：我觉得你概括得非常精准。
Original English **Female Guest**: I think you nailed it.
**男主持**：全都在这里了，是的。
Original English **Male Host**: Those are all the ones. Yeah.
**女嘉宾**：还有愤怒，或者沮丧抓狂。顺便说一句，你的大脑其实是站在你这一边的朋友。如果你不想承受这些负面情绪，你的大脑本身就是你，它也同样不想承受这些感觉。大脑的设计初衷就是为了帮助你并解决问题。因此，它会产生反应：“既然我们正在……”
Original English **Female Guest**: Anger, you know, frustration. Your brain also, by the way, is your friend. If you don't want to feel them, your brain is you and doesn't want to feel them either. Your brain is designed to help you and problem solve. So, it goes, "Well, we're..."
### 逃避现实与手机成瘾的机制 **Speaker A**: 感到不知所措。大脑会想：“我要怎么摆脱这个？怎么才能避开这个？”所以，它会试图去解决这个问题。那么，面对让你不知所措的事情，其实有两种解决方式，对吧？你要么迎难而上正面解决它——这听起来可是一大堆费时费力的苦差事；要么你可以选择逃避它，也就是我们所说的情感逃避（emotional avoidance）。
Original English **Speaker A**: overwhelmed. "How do I avoid this?" So, it's going to try to solve the problem. Now, there's two ways to solve what you're overwhelmed about, right? You could either deal with it head-on, which sounds like a heck of a lot of work, or you could avoid it. Emotional avoidance.
**Speaker A**: 那么，在现代社会中，我们逃避内心真实状态最快、最轻松的方式是什么呢？
Original English **Speaker A**: Now, what's the fastest and easiest way in the modern world we can avoid what's going on inside of us?
**Steven Bartlett**: 刷 TikTok、吃 Shake Shack 汉堡、看色情内容。呃……
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Tik Tok, Shake Shack, pornography. Uh,
**Speaker A**: 没错，我们立刻选择让自己麻木。我认为第一步就是让这种现象被客观看待并正常化，因为我们的智能手机为我们创造了一条通道，一条通向现实之外、极其迅速且廉价的逃生出口。
Original English **Speaker A**: so we immediately go numb. And I think normalizing that is the first step because what our phones have done for us is created an exit, a very fast cheap exit to reality.
### 电击实验与独处焦虑 **Steven Bartlett**: 我知道你肯定听说过那些心理学实验：研究人员把受试者单独放在一个房间里，并给他们一个可以电击自己的机会。这项实验的设定本质上是这样的：在实验开始前，受试者都体验过被电击的感觉；接着，他们被单独留在一个房间里，面前放着一个只要按下去就会再次遭到电击的按钮。在实验正式开始之前，受试者平均都表示宁愿花钱也不想再被电击一次。但一旦把他们单独留下，只面对这个电击按钮时……
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: I know you would have heard about those studies where they put people in a room and give them the opportunity to electrocute themselves. So essentially the study is people get electrocuted before the study starts and then they're put in a room on their own with a button that would electrocute them again. They describe before the study starts on average being willing to pay to not be electrocuted again. But once they're put alone with this electrocution button,
**Speaker A**: 许多人却开始一遍又一遍地电击自己。而且在这项研究中，男性电击自己的频率要远远高于女性。
Original English **Speaker A**: many people continue to shock themselves over and over again. And in the study, men shock themselves more than women.
**Steven Bartlett**: 研究里有一个特别的男士，当被要求坐在那里什么都不做、独自待着的时候，他竟然电击了自己好几百次。这项研究得出的结论是：在当今时代，我们宁愿选择电击自己，也不愿意独自坐在沉默之中。你说这多不可思议？这听起来确实很疯狂，但从某种意义上来说，这恰恰就是我们现在对待手机的方式。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: One particular guy in the study, electrocuted himself hundreds of times um when left alone and being asked to sit and do nothing. And the conclusion from the study is that we'd rather electrocute ourselves than sit alone in silence these days. And um do you know what? It sounds crazy, but in a way that's kind of what we're doing with our
**Steven Bartlett**: 手机。老实说，在某种程度上，当我的手机没电关机时——我只想实话实说，因为我觉得假装自己不是这样的人毫无意义——当我的手机没电时，我心里就会涌起一种隐隐的焦虑感。毫无疑问，我对手机上瘾了。我在这玩意儿上花费了令人难以置信的时间。我大概一天要拿起手机 200 次，仅仅是为了看一眼。所以，当我们在进行深度工作时，要先把手机拿开；要关掉与手机相关的通知。除此之外还有什么方法吗？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: phones. In a way, when my phone dies, and I'm just going to be honest, cuz I don't think there's any point in me trying to pretend I'm something I'm not. When my phone dies, it's like a mild feeling of anxiety when my phone dies. And I'm most certainly addicted to my phone. I spend an unbelievable amount of hours with that thing. I probably pick it up 200 times a day just to check. So, we're going to remove the phone when we're doing deep work. We're going to turn off notifications as it relates to the phone. Anything else?
### 食品工业与科技成瘾的三部曲框架 **Speaker A**: 有的，当然有，还有很多。我把大型科技巨头、或者说技术本质上所做的事情，比作对人类大脑的彻底劫持并让其成瘾。我发现这与食品工业让我们对糖和加工食品上瘾的方式惊人地相似。我个人认为，这背后完全是同一套由三个部分构成的策略框架，科技巨头几乎是一模一样地照搬了食品工业的操盘手册。
Original English **Speaker A**: Yes. Okay. There's plenty. I liken what the tech big tech essentially what technology has done to really honestly hijack the brain and make it addicted. I find that it is eerily similar to how the food industry got us addicted to sugar and processed food. My humble belief is that it's the exact same three-part framework and the playbook was copied nearly identically.
**Speaker A**: 显而易见，进食是人类的一项基本生理需求。现在，如果回顾食品工业的发展，如果我们明知人类对食物有这种根本需求，我们要如何劫持生物生理机制与大脑，从而让人真正对糖和加工食品上瘾呢？（做着邪恶手势）没错，我懂，邪恶资本家的运作手段。
Original English **Speaker A**: We have obviously a fundamental need to eat. Now, if you look at the food industry, how might we hijack biology and the brain? Yeah, I know. Evil fingers work. How might we hijack the brain to actually get it addicted to sugar and to processed food if we know there's a fundamental need there?
**Speaker A**: 他们的做法是：首先，提高食物的刺激度（stimulation）。具体是怎么做的呢？其实就是尽可能地往所有地方注糖。我不太清楚英国的情况如何，但如果你在美国，随便拿起身旁几乎任何一条想要购买的面包，看看背面的配料表标签，里面都添加了糖。我自己就会烤面包，做一条面包根本不需要放糖，对吧？它并不必须是一条甜面包，但瞧瞧看，配料表里赫然有糖。
Original English **Speaker A**: Well, how you do that is you increase the stimulation of the food. And you do that by actually just injecting sugar wherever you can. I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but in here in the United States, look on the back label of pretty much any loaf of bread that you want to buy and there's sugar in it. I can bake bread. You don't need sugar necessarily to make a loaf of bread,
**Steven Bartlett**: 没错，它并不非得是甜的。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: right? It doesn't have to be a sweet loaf,
**Speaker A**: 但结果往往就是加了糖。所以，他们通过注入所有的这些糖分，提高了食物带来的感官刺激，对吧？这就是让人欲罢不能的手段。那么，为什么人类在生理上天生就容易对糖上瘾呢？因为在远古时期，食物是极度匮乏的，很难寻觅。因此，我们天生就会倾向于追逐那些代表获得丰厚能量储备（jackpots）的指标——盐、脂肪、糖。美味、可口、让人垂涎欲滴。这就是让食物变得极度美味的秘诀，不是吗？
Original English **Speaker A**: but lo and behold, there it is. So, we're injecting all of this sugar in increasing the stimulation of the food, right? And that's how you can get somebody hooked. Now, why would humans be already sort of naturally addicted to sugar? Because food used to be scarce. It's hard to find. So, we're naturally going to be inclined to these things that are indicators of jackpots. Salt, fat, sugar. Yummy, yummy, yummy. It's how you make food really delicious, right?
**Speaker A**: 我们每个人在基因里都天生渴望这些东西、觊觎这些东西，并且极易受到它们的强烈刺激。所以食品商所做的，就是注入这些诱人可口的成分，从而大幅拉高食物对你的感官刺激。“噢，这味道太棒了！”接着，第二步是减少阻力（friction）。让人们获取这些东西变得极其省事。他们把所有东西都做成小巧诱人的独立包装，分好份量；他们让获取变得轻而易举且迅速无比——就像快餐那样快速、随时随地、唾手可得。通过消除摩擦阻力，你不再需要自己动手做东西，不再需要费时费力准备一顿饭。快餐就在手边，随手撕开一根能量棒就能直接吃。
Original English **Speaker A**: And we're all naturally inclined to desire those things and covet those things and be really, really stimulated by them. So, what you do is you inject those yummy, yummy things. So, you're increasing the stimulation of your food. Oh, it's so amazing. Then, you decrease the friction. Let's make it easier for people to get this stuff. You make everything adorably packaged and portioned out and you make it easy, fast like fast food fast, easily accessible and available all of the time. So you're decreasing the friction. You no longer need to make yourself something. You don't need to make a meal. We have fast food. It's right there, right available. You open up a bar, good to go.
**Speaker A**: 然后，第三步是降低饱腹感（satiation）。通过剔除食物中真正能带来饱腹感的核心成分，来剥夺饱腹感体验。请记住，进食是一种基本需求。“我很饿，我想吃点东西填饱肚子。”
Original English **Speaker A**: Then you decrease the satiation. You decrease the satiation by removing the parts of food that make food satiating. Because remember this is a fundamental need. I'm hungry. I want to eat something.
**Steven Bartlett**: “Satiating”指的就是吃饱的感觉。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Satiating being full.
**Speaker A**: 对，就是饱腹感。我的身体需要那些能让我饱腹的营养素。而在食物中，究竟是什么东西能让我们产生饱腹感呢？
Original English **Speaker A**: Being full. Yes. My body needs things that would make me full. And what makes us full in food?
**Steven Bartlett**: 蛋白质。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Protein.
**Speaker A**: 膳食纤维。糖果里有吗？根本没有。既没有蛋白质，也没有膳食纤维。所以，食品工业早就把这套机制摸得一清二楚了。
Original English **Speaker A**: Fiber. Candy. Nope. There's no protein. There's no fiber. So, the food industry has figured this out.
### 视觉超刺激与短视频算法的劫持 **Speaker A**: 而科技界如出一辙地做了同样的事情。它们完全照搬了这套相同的操盘手册。首先，它们通过提高应用图标的色彩饱和度以及屏幕发出的光线亮度，来强化视觉刺激。这样一来，你的科技设备在视觉上看起来就更加具有刺激性。正如我们之前所探讨的，人类大脑皮层中有相当大的一部分属于视觉皮层，也就是你的枕叶。因此，大脑会被屏幕上所有高饱和度的色彩深深吸引并处于高度兴奋状态。这就像走进赌场一样——你绝对没见过哪家赌场的装潢会选用低调沉稳的中性色调吧？
Original English **Speaker A**: Technology has done the same thing. They've done the exact same thing. They followed the exact same playbook. They increase the stimulation by increasing this color saturation of the icons and the light that's emitted from the screen. So that your actual technology looks more visually stimulating. And that visual stimulation, as we were talking about before, huge part of your cortex is your visual cortex, your occipital lobe. So it's super super stimulated by all of that color saturation. So it's like, oh my gosh, think of like a casino. You've never been to a casino and you're like, oh, they've went with neutrals.
**Steven Bartlett**: 确实如此。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Yeah.
**Speaker A**: 你懂我的意思吧？永远是全天候无休止的炫彩夺目、闪烁的灯光、包罗万象的视听刺激。所以它充满了强烈的感官刺激，让你忍不住一直盯着它看。科技产品增加刺激度的另一种手段，就是短视频、短小精炼的内容形式，那种节奏极快、类似 TikTok 风格的视频，使其变得超级刺激，让你完全移不开眼线。顺便提一下，这里面涉及到一整套专门的研究领域——间歇性可变奖励（intermittent variable rewards）。你会时不时获得一次像中头彩一样的奖励，对吧？
Original English **Speaker A**: You know what I mean? It's all the colors all the time, all the lights, it's all the things. So, it's stimulating and you keep looking at it. The other way that we've increased the stimulation with technology is short form reels, short form content, super super fast TikTok style, so that it's uber stimulating and you can't look away. And by the way, there's an entire field intermittent variable rewards. You get these jackpots once in a while, right?
**Speaker A**: 顺便说一句，算法最令人着迷的地方——我相信你的算法也是如此——在于算法对你了解得极其透彻，它精准知道你当天会喜欢什么样的内容。所以它为你预存了大量这类内容，心想：“噢，史蒂文绝对会喜欢这个。他一定会爱看这个，因为他在一周前甚至还给类似的内容点过赞。”它为你保留了一个巨大的宝藏库。然而，当你打开这些应用开始往下滑动浏览时，它并不会在一开始就把那些它知道你肯定极其喜爱的内容推送给你。起初绝不会这么做。毕竟从商业逻辑来看，一上来就放大招可不是好生意，你不觉得吗？你才刚进店里，精力充沛，显然当时手头也没什么别的重要事情可做。
Original English **Speaker A**: What's fascinating about the algorithm, by the way, and your algorithm, I'm sure, is exactly the same. Your algorithm knows you really, really well, and it knows what content you're going to love that day. So, it's got all this like saved up content for you. So, it's got like, ooh, Steven's going to love this. He's really going to love this because he even liked this thing like a week ago. Like something like this. Okay. Okay. And it's got this treasure trove of stuff that it's holding for you. You get on to one of these apps and you start scrolling. It's not going to show you the stuff it knows you're going to love. Not in the beginning. That's bad business, don't you think? You just came into the store. You have all the energy in the world. You obviously have nothing better to do.
**Speaker A**: 于是你坐了下来，所以在刚开始的时候，它大可以只给你展示一些平平无奇、马马虎虎的内容。在开头阶段给你看这些就足够了，因为它已经牢牢抓住了你的注意力，而且算法清楚地掌握能留住你多长时间的注意力。每个人的耐受度都有些许不同，所以它知道在你说出“我不看了，这太无聊了，我要退出去干点别的”之前，它能持续向你推送多久中等甚至低趣味度、普通吸引力的内容。它能敏锐地捕捉到你即将关掉退出的临界时刻，就在你马上要滑走的那一刹那，冷不防砸给你一个头彩大奖。
Original English **Speaker A**: So, you've now sat down and in the beginning I can show you meh content. I can just show you like in the beginning because I have your attention and it knows how long it has your attention. Every person is a little bit different. So, it knows how long it can just serve you up medium to like low entertaining content and interesting content before you say to yourself, "I'm done. This is boring. I'm going to get off and I'm going go do something else." It knows the moment you're about to do that and right before you do that hits you with a jackpot.
**Steven Bartlett**: 比如一条《CEO日记》（The Diary Of A CEO）的爆款切片。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Diario clip
**Speaker A**: 就像那样，砰的一声！
Original English **Speaker A**: like that. Bang.
**Steven Bartlett**: 砰！完全正确。就好像：“看，他又出现了！又是那个巴特利特（Bartlett），我简直移不开眼睛。”
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Bang. Exactly. It's like there he is. It's that Bartlett again and I can't look away. And
**Speaker A**: 此时此刻正在看这个视频短片的人们大概心里也在想：“刚才那个就是我马上准备滑走时刷到的内容。”
Original English **Speaker A**: people are watching this reel right now and they're thinking this was the one I was just about to bounce.
**Steven Bartlett**: 就是这个视频。你很喜欢这个，对吧？你特别喜欢这个。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: This is the one. You love this, right? You love this.
### 间歇性可变奖励与心理依赖机制 **Steven Bartlett**: 但这背后是有扎实的科学原理支撑的。我记得自己 16 岁在心理学课堂上，就读到过关于鸽子与可变奖励的经典实验。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: But there's science behind this. I remember being 16 years old in psychology class and reading about the pigeons and variable rewards.
**Speaker A**: 确实如此。
Original English **Speaker A**: Totally.
**Steven Bartlett**: 这到底是怎么回事？这种“可变奖励”现象究竟是什么机制？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: What is this? What is this variable rewards uh phenomenon?
**Speaker A**: 天哪，人类实在太有意思了。我认为人类是整个已知宇宙中最酷的造物，但我们又是如此荒谬可笑。信不信由你，人类其实并不喜欢固定而持续的奖励。相反，当奖励实际上是断断续续、带有某种不可预测的不确定性时，我们反而会更加深陷其中、彻底上瘾。
Original English **Speaker A**: Oh my gosh, it's so humans are fascinating. I find humans to be the coolest thing in the known universe. We're so ridiculous. Human beings, believe it or not, do not love consistent reward. We become more addicted when it's in fact intermittent and somewhat variable.
**Steven Bartlett**: 换句话说，也就是当我们不知道奖励何时会降临，但心里确信它总会出现的时候。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: So, when we don't know when it's coming, but we know it's coming.
**Speaker A**: 没错！关于那些深陷有毒亲密关系（toxic relationships）的人，我有一整套完整的理论。严肃地说，不妨想想“情感轰炸”（love bombing）这种现象，这背后就是情感轰炸的科学逻辑：前一秒我对你冷暴力、玩消失（ghosting），紧接着砰的一声，我又……
Original English **Speaker A**: Yeah, this is I have a whole theory on like people who are in toxic relationships. Like, seriously, think about like love bombing. This is the science of love bombing. Like, I'm ghosting you and then bam, I
### 间歇强化与算法成瘾：赌场老虎机的心理机制 **Sahara**: 突然用猛烈的爱意包裹你，让人措手不及、受宠若惊，接着人们就会对这种有毒的关系彻底上瘾。算法的运作逻辑完全是一模一样的。设想一下，如果算法把你所有想看的内容毫无遗漏地统统推给你——比如说，连续5个小时的整个信息流里，清一色全都是《CEO日记》（Diary of a CEO）的精彩片段，砰、砰、砰、砰、砰地连环轰炸。信不信由你，这种情况下你反而更不容易上瘾。我们真正沉迷的，其实是那种被“拿捏”和捉弄的感觉——我们永远不知道精彩的内容究竟什么时候会刷出来，完全无法预测它何时降临。
Original English **Sahara**: hit you with a bunch of love. And people like, oh my. and then they become addicted to these toxic relationships. Similar concept. So the algorithm works exactly the same way. If it showed you every single thing that you wanted to see, by the way, only diary of a CEO clips. That's it. The whole feed for like 5 hours straight. It's just like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Believe it or not, you'd be less likely to get addicted. We're addicted to like the, you know, just mess with me. I don't know when the good stuff's coming. I don't know when it's coming.
**Sahara**: 这正是赌场的运作机制，也是老虎机的运作机制。你会输钱。老兄，你知道老虎机都是经过精心编程的吗？那是一个计算机程序，背后全都是数学计算。他们的目的就是让你先输掉一大笔钱、深陷亏损，然后突然让你赢回150美元，让你瞬间产生一种“我又行了、我能翻盘”的错觉。这就是他们玩的游戏，这就是针对人类心理设计的游戏机制。所以，算法的底层逻辑同出一辙，他们正是通过这种方式极大地拉高了神经刺激。
Original English **Sahara**: This is how casinos work. This is how slot machines work. you lose. D you dude, you know that slot machines are programmed. It's a computer program. It's all math. They want you to lose a bunch of money, be in the red, and then have you make up a $150, and then be like, "Oh, I'm back in." And it this is the This is the game. This is the human game. So, the algorithm works exactly the same. That's how they increase the stimulation.
### 消除阻力：从分页机制到无底洞般的“无限滚动” **Sahara**: 随后，他们就像现代深加工食品工业一样，彻底削减了体验中的一切摩擦与阻力。在这里，你遇到了“无限滚动”。我们实际上拆除了所有的终点停顿机制。你还记得早期的YouTube和Instagram是什么样子的吗？那时候，你基本上只能看到自己关注和订阅的内容。顺便说一句，记得点击订阅。但核心要点在于，订阅模式其实允许你对自己的信息流进行更多的自主策划与筛选，让你能明确表达“这是我想看的”，而不是被动接受其余杂乱的信息。对吧？
Original English **Sahara**: So, then they also decreased the friction just like food. Here you have the infinite scroll. We've literally removed the back stops. Do you remember the early days of like YouTube and Instagram? You had to like you only, by the way, saw the things that you followed that you subscribed to. By the way, subscribe. But like this is the point is is is actually the subscription model allows you to curate your feed a little bit more and say this is what I want to see, not the rest of this Right?
**Stephen**: 当人们没有主动筛选时，算法就会不断试探：“这个怎么样？那个怎么样？这个别的东西如何？再看看这个如何？”它就是不断促使你漫无目的地四处逛荡。但最关键的是，我们拆掉了所有的终止挡板。现在我们有了所谓的“无限滚动”。无限滚动就好比你去吃自助餐，你直接张大嘴巴，眼前有一整条流水线把各种食物和糖果直接源源不断地倒进你的嘴里。对吧？这里根本没有任何制动挡板，它就是一个停不下来的无底洞。
Original English **Stephen**: When people don't and so the algorithm will just be like this, this, how about this, how about this other thing, how about this other thing. It's just getting you to shop around. But most importantly, it's we've removed the backs stop. Now we have something called the infinite scroll. And the infinite scroll is like going to a buffet and just opening your mouth and there's just an assembly line of food and candy just going straight in. Right? There's no back stop. It's an it just keeps going.
**Sahara**: 过去都是有分页设计的，以前是第一页、第二页、第三页这样明确分开。
Original English **Sahara**: It used to be pagionation. It used to be like page one, page two, page three.
**Stephen**: 完全没错。
Original English **Stephen**: Totally
**Sahara**: 那是早期的互联网形态。而现在的设计则完全变成了无穷无尽的无限流。
Original English **Sahara**: in the early internet. Now it's just infinite.
**Stephen**: 它没有尽头。你永远不可能把TikTok刷到底，这是绝对不可能发生的事。我不知道你或者大家是否还记得那种体验：以前是有终点的。我记得Instagram刚上线的时候，你刷着刷着就真的会把所有新动态看光，系统会直接提示你：“没有新动态了，今天的内容全在这里。明天再来看看吧，说不定你的朋友会再发一张三明治的照片。”你以前是能刷到尽头的。而现在这个终点已经被彻底抹去。这就是在消除阻力——再也没有任何门槛与停顿，只剩下永无止境的滑动。
Original English **Stephen**: There's no end. You're not going to reach the end of Tik Tok. It's not going to happen. I don't know if you remember this or if people remember this. There was an end. I remember when Instagram first came out, you would literally like run out of things to see and then just be like, "That's it. That's all for today. Come back tomorrow for maybe maybe your friend posted another picture of their sandwich." Like you'd reach the end. There's no longer an end. So that's decreasing the friction. There's no friction anymore. It's just the neverending scroll.
**Sahara**: 嗯，确实如此。
Original English **Sahara**: Mhm.
### 社交空虚与短视频的“垃圾卡路里”陷阱 **Sahara**: 接着，他们还大幅削减了内容带来的真正饱腹感与满足感。这一点极其关键，斯蒂芬。回到人类对社交联结的根本需求上——我们有着极其根本的需求，就像我们对食物的需求一样强烈，那就是与他人建立连结、开展社交、获得归属感。而社交媒体所做的一切，不过是制造了一种社交连结的虚幻假象。因为现有的实证数据充分表明，你在这些应用程序和平板平台上停留的时间越长，内心反而越感到孤立无援。所以你感到孤独，与外界脱节，独自一人待在家里，心中满是寂寞和错失恐惧症（FOMO），极度渴望建立某种连结。我想去满足这个需求，我内心有着对连结与归属感的最根本渴望，我必须去填补它。那么我会怎么做呢？最快、最廉价、最轻而易举的方式，就是抓起手边的手机。你点开手机，自以为正在满足这种需求，但这就像是在大口吃糖果。打个比方，到了吃晚餐的时间你饿了，你的身体真正渴望的是那些能够带来饱腹感、提供必需营养成分的实实在在的食物。然而，如果此时我递给你一袋彩虹糖之类的零食，你心里可能会想：“Sahara，这不也是卡路里吗？卡路里不都一样吗？它也是食物啊，味道好极了，全都是热量，这不就能解决我的饥饿问题了吗？”可是亲爱的，当你肚子饿的时候拿糖果充饥，接下来会发生什么？我相信你肯定有过这种经历，至少我亲身经历过。如果你说你从未干过这种事，那你绝对是世界上最健康的人类，我必须把你请进实验室好好研究一下。
Original English **Sahara**: Then they also decrease the satiation. This is extremely important, Stephen. Going back to that fundamental need for human connection. We have a fundamental need like the same need we have for food to be connected to one another to be social to feel a sense of belonging. What is social media has done is it's created the illusion of social connection because we have the data to support the longer you spend on these apps and on these platforms the lonier you are. So you're lonely. I'm disconnected. I'm at home. I have a sense of loneliness and FOMO and I want I'm seeking connection. I want to go meet this need. I have this fundamental need for connection and belonging, and I want to then go meet this need. So, what do I do? Well, the fastest, cheapest, and easiest way to do that is grab my phone. You get on and you think that you're meeting that need. It's like candy. So, you have, let's say you're hungry for dinner. Your body is craving things that actually make you full, nutrients that you need. But the thing is, if I gave you a bag of Skittles or something, then you might be thinking, well, Sahara, it's calories. Aren't calories? It's food, right? It tastes good. It's calories. And it's going to meet that need. I'm hungry. It's going to meet that need. Well, darling, what's going to happen when you eat candy when you're hungry? You've I'm sure you've done this before. At least I've done it. If you say no, then you're the healthiest human, and I must study you.
**Stephen**: 我当然干过这种事。
Original English **Stephen**: Of course, I have.
**Stephen**: 结果就是过了一会儿，我反而更想吃更多的彩虹糖。
Original English **Stephen**: But I I want to eat more Skittles later.
**Sahara**: 好吧，你看，说中了吧！
Original English **Sahara**: Okay, there we go.
**Stephen**: 这正是问题所在。如果我吃下了这些毫无营养的垃圾热量，那么短短6个小时之后，我又会四处翻箱倒柜寻找更多的垃圾卡路里。
Original English **Stephen**: That's the problem. If I have these junk calories, then in 6 hours time, I'm I'm back looking for more junk calories.
**Sahara**: 一点没错。血糖和刺激急剧飙升，随后全面崩盘下坠。这是生物学的另一条基本法则：凡是飞速上升的，必然急剧坠落。那么，当我们低头刷手机时，这一幕又是如何上演的？我内心在寻求归属感，顺便说一句，我也在渴求神经刺激。我们人类天生对新奇事物和学习新知有着底层本能需求——顺便说一句，我认为长音频播客之所以能做到深度滋养，就是因为这个道理。对比一下：一个人制作的短短30秒Reels短视频，强行塞进一两个看似新颖的零碎冷知识，而另一种体验是安安静静地坐下来，真正沉浸在一档长达数小时的深度长节目中，这二者的差别何其悬殊。
Original English **Sahara**: Exactly. Shoots up, then everything crashes down. Another law of biology. What goes up must come down. And so what does this look like when we're scrolling? I seek a sense of belonging. I'm seeking also by the way stimulation. We have a fundamental need for novelty and learning which by the way I think is it podcasts do this be like think about the difference between some 30-se secondond reel that someone has made and then they inject like two quick facts versus sitting down and actually sinking into a multi-our show.
### 短内容的认知幻觉与反向神经科学 **Stephen**: 这两类内容对人都有吸引力。坦白讲，要坐下来完整听完一档长节目，难度要比刷短视频大得多。但正如你所强调的，长内容才是真正能给人带来心理饱腹感和满足感的东西。每个人都有学习和接触新鲜事物的天然本能，因为在演化层面上这关乎生存——掌握一则全新信息可能是一把关键钥匙，能让我们在这个世界上更好地生存和繁荣。而社交媒体和短视频内容的可怕劫持之处就在于：你自以为吸收了知识，但我向你保证，就像吃下一袋彩虹糖一样，一旦放下手机退出应用，你刚刚看过的所有内容你脑子里根本什么都记不住。不信你大可以自己测试一下。
Original English **Stephen**: You're attracted to both. One is a lot harder to sit through than the other. But what I'm telling you is this is what's actually going to satiate you. You have, we all do, have a natural fundamental need for learning and novelty because again, survival because this new piece of information might be a huge unlock for me to thrive even more in this world. This is the hijack of social media and short form content is you think you're getting that, but I promise you, just like with the Skittles, you end up getting off and you don't remember anything that you, by the way, you just watched. Test it.
**Sahara**: 严肃地说，我绝不是在开玩笑。
Original English **Sahara**: Seriously, I'm not kidding.
**Sahara**: 你连着刷上一阵子快节奏的短平快内容，当时那一瞬间你的感觉是：“天哪，我刚学到了一个关于这个主题的有趣冷知识！”你自以为自己在学习，其实这纯粹是一种大脑产生的认知幻觉。顺便提一句，斯蒂芬，我认为我们如今正迎来一个关键转折：全世界的人们正在逐渐看清并清醒认识到这个真相。这将掀起一场巨大的“反向逆转”（Reverse UNO）。平台利用神经科学的规律让我们上瘾沉沦，
Original English **Sahara**: Do the quick short form for a while and in the moment you're like, "Oh my gosh, I just learned a fun fact about this and this is you think you're learning. It's an illusion." What I believe we're, by the way, Stephen, up for right now is I think the world is waking up to this now and this is going to be the new big reverse UNO as I call it. They use neuroscience to get us hooked
**Sahara**: 而我认为我们完全可以借助“反向神经科学”来全盘逆转这一局面。如果他们通过提升感官刺激来控制你（正如我们之前探讨的那样），那么你的应对策略就是主动降低刺激。降低刺激的方法之一，就是把手机屏幕调成灰度模式。也就是说，直接在系统中开启类似黑白灰度的显示模式，从神经层面上大幅降低手机对大脑的刺激感。这样一来，你想要放下手机就会变得容易得多。你直接在系统设置里就能搞定。顺带一提，这正是一个极具说服力的生动范例：设备的所有默认设置都不是为了帮助你而存在的，默认设置的存在完全是为了帮助科技公司利用你的注意力和宝贵时间来疯狂变现。所以，斯蒂芬，你的自控力理应战胜这些默认设置；我也理应战胜这些默认设置；所有正在收听这期节目的听众，你们的智慧都远胜于这些预置的默认参数！勇敢地反抗默认设置，主动把你的手机调成灰色吧。当你这样做的时候，整台手机在你眼里瞬间就显得毫无生机、死气沉沉。这样能极大地避免你在各个App之间来回跳转疯狂刷屏，尤其是深夜意志力薄弱、心里想着“我就看一眼、就看一秒钟”的时候，不再轻易陷入暴饮暴食般狂刷暴看的失控状态。
Original English **Sahara**: and I think we can use reverse neuroscience to reverse this entire thing. If they increase the stimulation, as we talked about before, you reduce it. And the ways in which you reduce the stimulation, one, if you keep your phone in gray. So, literally going into something like grayscale makes the phone less neurologically stimulating. So, it's a heck of a lot easier for you to actually get off your phone. You do this in settings. And again, this is, by the way, a beautiful example of the default settings are not here to help you. The default settings are here to help them make money off of your attention and your time. So, you are better than the default settings, Stephen. I am better than the default settings. Everyone who's listening, you are better than the default settings. push back against the default settings and put your phone in gray. When you do that, your phone is immediately it looks dead to you. It's way easier to not go from app to app to app to app and then do that thing where we mindlessly scroll, especially late at night when our willpower is low and then you're like, I'm just going to check for a second, just for a second. And then you find yourself just gorging essentially on this and binging on content.
**Stephen**: 那么科学界是否曾经专门做过实验，测试人们在使用灰度模式或者不同色彩饱和度设备时的实际参与度和使用时长？还是说这仅仅是神经科学理论推导出来的普遍结论？
Original English **Stephen**: Have they ever tested that engagement with devices when they are in grayscale or in a different color saturation? Or is it just generally what the neuroscience points to?
### 灰度实验的惊人发现：每天夺回一小时 **Sahara**: 我亲自做过严格的实证测试。在我的实验室里，我们招募了一大批健康的职场专业人士作为大样本受试者。我所做的干预仅仅是把他们的手机屏幕统统调整为全灰度显示，并要求他们保持灰度模式连续生活三周。仅此而已。
Original English **Sahara**: I've tested it. So in my lab, we took a large sample of healthy working professionals and all I did was turn their phones into gray and ask them to stay in gray for 3 weeks. That's it.
**Stephen**: 嗯哼。
Original English **Stephen**: Mhm.
**Sahara**: 最终的数据监测显示，受试者每天使用手机的时间平均整整减少了1个小时。
Original English **Sahara**: And we saw on average people spent 1 hour less on their phones every single day.
**Stephen**: 哇，这太惊人了。
Original English **Stephen**: Wow.
**Sahara**: 这相当于每周多出了整整7个小时。我经常这样跟人解释：这7个小时的差距，足以决定你这周到底能不能抽出时间完成预定的健身锻炼。
Original English **Sahara**: That's 7 hours a week. The way I always talk about that's the difference between you getting that workout in.
**Stephen**: 是的，这太不可思议了。
Original English **Stephen**: Yeah, that's crazy.
**Sahara**: 你能明白我的意思吧？
Original English **Sahara**: Do you know what I mean?
**Stephen**: 确实太不可思议了。
Original English **Stephen**: That's crazy.
**Sahara**: 当你环顾四周，去和那些整天把“太忙”挂在嘴边的人交谈时，他们总是在说：“哎呀，我一直想做这件事，我想读完那本书，我甚至很想听完你的播客，可我就是根本抽不出时间来。”亲爱的，其实只要做出这么一个微不足道的小小改变，你每天就能实打实地夺回1个小时。一周就是整整7个小时，好好想一想你用这段时间能成就多少有价值的事情。接下来的第二点建议，就是坚定地选择长内容，摒弃短平快的碎片化内容。
Original English **Sahara**: When you go around and you talk to these busy people, they're like, "Oh, yeah. I'm trying to do this. I want to read that book. I want to listen to your podcast even, but I just don't have the time." Well, darling, just making this one tiny change will give you an hour back a day. That's 7 hours a week. Think about what you could do with that time. Next is choosing long form over short form.
**Stephen**: 谢谢你。
Original English **Stephen**: Thank you.
**Sahara**: 你听过……
Original English **Sahara**: Did you hear
### 长内容与同理心：重塑数字时代的“内容饮食” **主持人**：对吧？她是伯克利大学毕业的，那是一所非常顶尖的大学，她是一位博士。
Original English **Host**: That? She's from Berkeley. That's an amazing university. She's a doctor.
**嘉宾**：长视频。不，但这确实是真的。
Original English **Guest**: Long. No, it's true though.
**主持人**：她还说了，如果你们还没关注的话就点击订阅。
Original English **Host**: She also said subscribe if you didn't, if you didn't yet.
**嘉宾**：不，但坦白讲，这确实是真的。这绝非凭空捏造。顺便提一句，甚至有研究表明，在某些情况下短视频内容确实能提高注意力广度。
Original English **Guest**: No, but honestly, it's true. It's really, it's not like made up. Short form content has even been shown, by the way, in some cases to increase attention span.
**主持人**：完全同意。
Original English **Host**: Completely agree.
**嘉宾**：你当然同意了，没错。可没有人付钱让我说这些。但事实是，像一部好电影这样的长篇内容，已被证明能够增强年轻人的同理心。只要仔细想想这一点就会明白。所以，我们传达的核心信息并不是：“天哪，科技太可怕了，所有的屏幕时间都是有害的，巴拉巴拉一堆废话。”绝非如此。我非常推崇健康的“内容饮食”理念。也就是说，按照你自己的节奏来：如果你想坐下来看一部电影，那就坐下来看一部电影；穿上你的舒适睡衣，爆一碗爆米花，把它变成一种充满仪式感的浪漫体验，调暗灯光，打开流媒体。然而现在，每个人在看电影的同时都掏出了手机，同时做着两件事。不知不觉中，我们似乎已经默认并接受了这样一种现状：你再也无法获得人们全神贯注、毫无保留的专注力了。因此，我们如今制作内容的方式，都是直接假设观众在观看的同时肯定还在浏览别的屏幕。这真的令人感到悲哀。请告诉我，如果我们的注意力跨度已经恶化到了这种地步，那孩子们在学校里到底该怎么学习？你曾告诉我，你渴望成为“超人”，渴望充分挖掘并体验自身大脑的全部潜能。但如果你连完整看完一部电影的注意力都无法保持，你又怎么可能做到这一点呢？
Original English **Guest**: Of course you do. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, no one's paying me to say this. But no, long form content like a film, like a good film, has been shown to increase empathy in young people. Just think about that. So, like again, the message is not, "Oh my god, technology is bad. All screen time is evil, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." No, no, no, no, no. I'm a huge fan of your content diet. Like, make sure like whatever. If you want to sit down and watch a movie, sit down and watch a movie. Like, get into your pajamas, make a bowl of popcorn, like romanticize it, turn the lights down, you'll put Netflix on, everyone's also got the phone out, so they're doing two things at once. This has just become like we've accepted this apparently that you no longer have people's undivided attention. So the way in which we're making content now is assuming that someone is looking at something else as well. This is so sad. And please tell me how if this is how bad our attention spans have gotten, how are first of all kids supposed to learn in school? You told me that you have this interest in becoming superhuman to experiencing the full potential of your own mind. How are you supposed to do that if you can't even pay attention to a movie anymore?
### 注意力的断层与短视频的“糖果效应” **主持人**：你知道有件很有趣的事吗？昨晚我正在看一部剧情很复杂的老电影。
Original English **Host**: You know what's funny? I was watching, I was watching a complicated old movie last night.
**嘉宾**：情节复杂的电影。
Original English **Guest**: Complicated.
**主持人**：那是属于这样一类的老电影：只要你漏听了一句台词，接下来的三个小时你就会完全一头雾水、摸不着头脑。
Original English **Host**: It's one of those ones where if you miss a word, the next 3 hours is you're lost.
**嘉宾**：哦，确实是这样。
Original English **Guest**: Oh yeah.
**主持人**：因为他们在电影里给一颗星球命名了，如果你当时没明白那是怎么回事……我当时发现自己必须对这部电影倾注极大的专注力。我清楚地记得童年时的情景：那时候我和家人一起坐在沙发上，就只是单纯地凝视着屏幕。但在2026年的当下，当我看这部非常复杂的旧电影时，我感觉自己仿佛在拼命抵抗一种冲动。这种感觉就好像，我早已习以为常的媒介消费模式，与我和很多人现在的生活方式之间出现了一种严重的断层与错位。这件事情立刻牢牢占据了我的思绪，因为我清晰地记得，昨晚为了看懂这部电影、确保听明白每一个字，我必须付出多么巨大的努力来保持专注。但我年轻的时候从来不需要这样，那时候你只要坐在那里静静看就行了。
Original English **Host**: Because they're going to they've named a planet and if you don't understand what is And I was think I was I was having to pay so much attention to this movie. And I remember this from my childhood. I used to just sit there on the sofa with my family and just look at the screen. But it was like I was resisting an urge now in 2026 when watching this very complicated old movie. As if there's now a mismatch between the media that I'm used to versus the way that I and many of us live our lives. And it's just it was just super front of mind cuz I just remember trying to like the effort I was putting in to stay focused on this movie last night and trying to make sure I understood every single word. But I never, I never did that when I was younger. You would just sit there and watch.
**嘉宾**：你那时就只是坐在那里看。
Original English **Guest**: You just sit there and watch.
**嘉宾**：可能有些人在某种程度上会想：“话虽如此，但我就是发自内心地喜欢刷短视频啊。”
Original English **Guest**: There might be some people at some level thinking, "Yeah, but I love short form."
**主持人**：所以我很喜欢它。
Original English **Host**: So I love it.
**嘉宾**：我也很喜欢吃糖果啊。如果我们摄入了过量的短视频，其后果我们早已心知肚明：你会变得更加抑郁、更加焦虑，你的专注力和注意力跨度会被彻底摧毁。扪心自问，你为什么会想要那样的状态？从生理和认知角度来说，你整个人会感到糟糕透顶，你的大脑只能在极其低下的认知水平上运转。如果你过度消耗这些内容——顺便说一句，这当然完全是你自己的选择，我绝不是要跑来对别人的生活指手画脚。但我真心希望人们能够清醒过来，意识到一件事：人的基本心理与生理需求是客观存在的。我的目标就是帮助你们真正去满足这些核心需求。而要实现真正持久的满足感，你需要去切实行走于世界，学习一项全新的知识和技能；去在现实生活（IRL）中花时间与真正的人类相处。去拥抱他人、触摸他人、与他人面对面倾心交谈，举办温馨的晚餐派对，展开深入的对话交流，多和你的朋友、家人待在一起，切实满足对真实社交联结的基本渴望。如果你真正做到了这一点，你就会发现自己的内心是充实而饱足的；甚至会神奇地发现，自己对短视频的依赖和喜爱竟然自然而然地减少了。你将再也不会轻易迷失自我，不会一路漫无目的地刷手机刷到凌晨两点，然后因为睡眠极度匮乏而在第二天感到浑浑噩噩、痛苦不堪。
Original English **Guest**: I love candy, too. If we have too much short form, we already know this. You're more depressed. You're more anxious. Your attention span is shot. Like, why would you want that? You literally feel shittier and your brain operates at a lower level cognitively speaking. If you over consume this stuff, and it's your choice, by the way. I'm not here to tell people how to live their lives. But I want people to wake up to realize one, the fundamental needs are there. So, my goal is for you to meet those needs. And the way that you do that to increase the satiation is you actually go learn something new. You actually spend time IRL in real life with real human beings. Hold people, touch people, talk to people, have dinner parties, have conversations, hang out with your friends, your family, actually meet that fundamental need for social connection. And if you do that, you will notice that you're full and you will magically actually like short form less. You are far less likely to lose yourself scrolling until 2:00 in the morning and then feeling like the next day because you didn't get enough sleep.
### “令人后悔的时间”与社交饥渴的陷阱 **主持人**：我认为，以“第二天醒来时的身心感受”作为指引人生的风向标，是一种非常高明的处事哲学。几年前杰克·多西还在推特掌舵时，我就听他提到过他们引入的一项全新衡量指标——减少用户的“后悔时长”（regrettable minutes）。
Original English **Host**: I think that feeling like the next day is a good way to navigate life, which I heard Jack Dorsey back in the a couple years ago when he was still at Twitter talk about one of them new metrics was reducing regrettable minutes.
**主持人**：关于“后悔时长”这个概念，我觉得确实如此。因为如果拿彩虹糖（Skittles）来打比方，吃糖的那一瞬间确实让人非常愉悦；但如果我一口气干掉了一大整包彩虹糖，我很可能在几个小时后就会感到后悔，第二天更会懊悔不已，因为过量的糖分会让你体内的血糖坐上一趟剧烈波动的过山车。再看看像 TikTok 这样的平台，权威调研数据显示，高达 60% 的活跃 TikTok 用户表示自己经历了负向的福祉体验，甚至宁愿生活在一个该平台根本不存在的世界里。在“令人后悔”这个指标上，它高居榜首。这是因为用户普遍反映自己的时间感被严重扭曲了：他们原本只是想打开应用看看，结果莫名其妙就虚度了一两个小时；当他们终于抽身退步时，内心却空空如也，根本说不清楚自己到底得到了什么。因此，这种关于后悔的反思——固然彩虹糖尝起来很甜美，刷屏看几秒短视频也确实挺爽，但在那之后你内心的真实感受究竟如何？在借用食物作比喻时，这个考量可以说是极其切中要害的。
Original English **Host**: And this idea of like regrettable minutes I think is cuz with Skittles honestly they would feel good in the moment but I'd probably regret if I had a massive bag of Skittles. Probably regret it in a couple of hours, probably the next day because you, you know, send you on a bit of a roller coaster. And with platforms like Tik Tok, when you look at the data, they found that 60% of active Tik Tok users experience negative welfare and would rather live in a world where it didn't exist, where the platform didn't exist. It ranks as number one in terms of regret in this regard because people report that their time was distorted. They open the app and lost an hour or 2 hours and they walk away from it without clarity like what they gained. So this idea of regret like okay Skittles taste nice, it was it was cool to scroll for a second, but how did I feel thereafter is something that I, I guess in the food analogy is pertinent.
**嘉宾**：是的，我实话告诉你，我们大家正在逐渐清醒过来。
Original English **Guest**: Yeah I'm telling you we're waking up.
**主持人**：人们正在觉醒。
Original English **Host**: People are waking up.
**嘉宾**：尤其是年轻人正在清醒过来，这是最令人振奋的事情。我看到了《金融时报》发布的统计图表，数据显示从2022年开始，年轻人在网上花费的时间已经率先出现了平台期、停止了盲目增长。
Original English **Guest**: Young people are waking up. That's the that's the coolest thing. I saw the graphs from the Financial Times which showed time spent online had started to plateau since 2022 for young people first.
**主持人**：是啊，谢天谢地。不过话说回来，这依然是一场艰难的博弈与拉锯。
Original English **Host**: Yeah, thank God. I mean, but listen, it's still a push.
**嘉宾**：没错。
Original English **Guest**: Yeah.
**嘉宾**：统计数据显示，如今即将从高中毕业的高年级学生中，谈过恋爱的比例还不到一半；而在我们这一代人成长的时候，这个比例我记得大概高达 80% 甚至 90%。
Original English **Guest**: So, the stats are less than half of graduating high school seniors have ever been on a date compared to what was I believe something like 80 or 90%. In, in I would say our generation.
### 增加阻力：为数字生活找回“分量控制” **嘉宾**：嗯，这太疯狂了，简直不可思议。而且据统计，英国大概三分之一的夜店……可以说整个夜店行业的参与度已经暴跌了三分之二。还有晚餐派对，《大西洋月刊》最近刚发表了一篇关于“晚餐派对走向消亡”的深度报道。人们独自度过的时间变得越来越漫长，与他人共处的时间则越来越少。因此，大家在情感上处于一种极度饥饿的状态。不幸的是，各大算法平台正是充分利用了这种长期的心理饥渴，从而把我们死死锁在永无止境的注意力分散恶性循环中。更糟糕的是，现在时刻把手机握在手里甚至被视为一种完全合理的社交常态，手机永远静静躺在我们的口袋中。因此，你能采取的最好举措之一，就是为自己消费内容的方式重新引入“分量控制”（portion control）。所谓分量控制，本质就是主动人为地增加摩擦力与阻碍。比如执行类似“手机停放区”的做法：把手机放到视线之外，做到眼不见、心不烦；把所有弹窗通知统统关掉。关闭通知是在直接降低环境刺激，而增加摩擦力的核心逻辑在于——听着，既然我明明知道这玩意儿极易让人上瘾、而你打心底里想少碰它，那就千万别让它触手可及地摆在你的眼前。
Original English **Guest**: Mhm. That's crazy. That's crazy. I think something like what is it a third of UK nightclubs are also now like engagement in the nightclub scene has gone down to a third. Dinner parties. There's this recent piece in the Atlantic that just came out about the sort of the death of dinner parties. So people are spending increasingly more time alone and not with others. So they're hungry. Unfortunately, these platforms are taking advantage of that perpetual hunger and keeping us locked into the cycle of distraction. And now, by the way, it's socially appropriate for us to always hold our phones. It's always in our pocket. So, one of the best things that you can do is actually to it is to introduce portion control back into how you are consuming content. Portion control. So, you increase the friction. You do things like that phone parking lot bit like put your phone out of sight, out of mind. Turn the notifications off. Turning the notifications off would be decreasing the stimulation. But increasing the friction is listen, if I'm telling you this stuff is addictive and you want to do less of it. Don't have it right there.
**主持人**：这就像是当着一个刚刚下定决心戒酒的酗酒者的面坐下，然后对他说：“你一边工作过着你的一天，我把这瓶冰啤酒摆在你正面前，你不会介意吧？你真的不介意吗？”
Original English **Host**: It's like it's like it's like sitting down with a someone who is freshly trying to become sober as an alcoholic and just be like, "You don't mind if I just put this beer down in front of you, do I? Or do you? Just as you're working and going about your day."
**嘉宾**：我觉得那个彩虹糖的比喻十分精当。就像我平时绝对不会在口袋里揣着一整包彩虹糖到处走一样；因为如果我这么做了，只要我感到压力倍增或者——
Original English **Guest**: I think the Skittles analogy is pretty good. Like I wouldn't walk around with Skittles in my pocket because if I did, I'd eat them every time I was stressed or
**主持人**：是的。
Original English **Host**: Yeah.
**嘉宾**：或者感到无聊的时候，我都会忍不住拿出来吃。
Original English **Guest**: Bored.
**主持人**：完全是这样。
Original English **Host**: Totally.
**嘉宾**：所以说，
Original English **Guest**: So,
**嘉宾**：这一整套行为管控流程就是我极力倡导的方案。我认为全世界每一个年轻人都应该学习并深刻领会这套方法。我平时交流的对象主要是年长者，比如为人父母的家长们；他们早已厌倦了在家里整天扮演那个讨人嫌的“坏警察”角色，成天对着孩子唠叨：“赶紧把手机放下！离那个屏幕远一点！不许再看这个了！”所以我真心认为，这套认知与方法应该被正式纳入学校的教育课程体系中。
Original English **Guest**: This process is what I advocate. I think every young person in the entire world should learn this and know this. I speak mostly to older adults, so parents, and they're tired of being bad cop at home. They're constantly like, "Oh, get off your phone. Get off this. Get off that." So, I think this ought to be taught in schools.
### 大脑能量补给与外源性酮体 **主持人**：在我个人的办公室里，这可以说是带来了最显著、最立竿见影影响的一样东西。在所有我曾经尝试过的能够提高工作效率或增强认知表现的产品中，外源性酮体（exogenous ketones）绝对能排进为我带来巨大生产力跃升的前三名之列。这是一帮来自斯坦福大学的毕业生研发的成果，他们基本上成功地将长期坚持生酮饮食才能获得的生理增益，浓缩进了一小瓶可以直接饮用的小剂量能量饮品中；只要喝上一小剂，就能让你体会到难以置信的专注力，并为你疲惫的大脑注入无与伦比的优质能量源泉。关于外源性酮体所进行的大量临床医学研究成果，完完全全彻底震撼了我。我主动联系了他们团队，如今我已经成为了这家公司的股东和投资人。因此，我非常自豪且荣幸地向大家……
Original English **Host**: This has had probably the single biggest impact on my office. Of all the products that I've tried that have given me productivity gains or cognitive boosts, I would say that exogenous ketones are in the top three most pivotal things that have given me massive productivity gain. It's some Stanford graduates that have been able to basically bottle up the effect you get from being in a ketogenic diet in a small shot that you can take that makes you feel incredibly focused and gives your brain an incredible source of energy. And the clinical studies that have been done on exogenous ketones have absolutely blown my mind. I reached out to them. I became a current owner in the company. I became an investor in the company. And so it's with great
### 赞助商插播：酮体饮料与领英招聘 **Steven Bartlett**: 能在这里告诉大家它的存在，我深感自豪。如果你还没试过这些饮品，可以前往 ketone.com/stephven 享受订阅订单 7 折优惠，并且在第二批送达时还将获得一份免费赠品。我主要还是在网上购买我的酮体饮品，但值得庆幸的是，现在我在美国只要开车经过 Target 也能直接买到，因为我们已经进驻了 Target，在那里你的第一瓶完全免费。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: ...pride that I can tell you that this exists. If you haven't tried these shots, go to ketone.com/stephven for 30% off your subscription order. And you'll also get a free gift with your second shipment. I still buy my ketone shots predominantly online. But thankfully, I can now grab them at Target whenever I drive past them here in the United States as well because we're now stocked in Target where your first shot is completely free.
**Steven Bartlett**: 每当我和初创企业的创始人交流时，他们往往都抱有一种相同的信念：认为对他们的小微企业来说，最大的威胁就是做出一个糟糕的产品。其实并不是。他们面临的最大威胁，是为他们的小团队招错了人。因为错误的招聘会直接给业务增长踩下急刹车，并迅速侵蚀污染公司文化。我完全能理解这一点。刚开始起步创业时，你迫切需要顶级人才（A 级员工）来推动公司发展，但你根本抽不出 40 个小时的空闲时间去逐一筛选面试。所以，你往往为了尽快填补空缺而仓促招人。但长远来看，这最终会让你付出更加惨重的代价。任何小微企业真正需要的，是一种可靠且高效的方式，在不拖慢发展势头的前提下找到合适的人才。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: I talk to new founders, they all carry the same belief that the biggest threat to their small business is having a bad product. It's not. The biggest threat they face is hiring the wrong person for their small team because bad hires put the handbreak on growth and rapidly infect company culture. And I get it. When you're starting out, you need A players to grow your company, but you don't have 40 spare hours to spend sifting through interviews. So, you hire fast to fill the seat. But this ends up costing you even more in the long term. What any small business actually needs is a reliable and efficient way to find the right talent without stalling momentum.
**Steven Bartlett**: 这正是我们的长期赞助商领英（LinkedIn）以及 LinkedIn Hiring Pro 能够为你提供帮助的地方。它精简了整套招聘流程，从草拟职位描述、筛选候选人名单，到利用 AI 进行初步甄别面试。使用过该工具的招聘人员中，有将近 60% 在一周之内就找到了可以进入正式面试的理想人选。从一开始就做对招聘，现在即可访问 linkedin.com/doac 免费发布你的第一个职位。网址是 linkedin.com/doac，相关条款与条件适用。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: That's where our long-term sponsor, LinkedIn, and LinkedIn Hiring Pro can help you. It streamlines the entire hiring process from drafting a job description to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI powered interviews for initial screenings. Nearly 60% of hirers who've used this tool have found a candidate to interview within a week. Hire right the first time around and get started by posting your first job for free at linkedin.com/doac. That's linkedin.com/doac and terms and conditions apply.
### 深度工作的秘诀：专注冲刺法（Focus Sprint） **Steven Bartlett**: 我其实非常想……私心想向你讨教一些关于如何更好地进行“深度工作”的建议。因为深度工作是我们团队所有人日常都必须做的事情——他们需要编写和修改代码，需要做大量的案头写作，而且由于人工智能的普及，我们现在进行的写作量比以往任何时候都要多。所以我们正努力在这一领域进行推进和抗争。可是在这样一个充斥着各种干扰的世界里，手机就摆在眼前，对于如何能够稳定、可预测地做好深度工作，你会给我什么样的建议？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: What I really want, um, quite selfishly, is like advice on how to do deep work better. Because deep work is something that, I mean, all of my team have to do deep work. They have to edit code, write, and we're doing a lot more writing than ever before in part because of AI. So we're trying to push against that. But in a world that is so distracted, where my phone is there, what advice would you give me for doing deep work predictably well?
**Guest**: 在我们的实验室和工作中，我们把这种深度工作称为“专注冲刺”（focus sprint）。专注冲刺是一种具体的工作方法。根据我们的研究，这种工作方法不仅能让人们完成的工作量达到平时的两倍之多，同时还能显著减少出错的几率。更重要的是，你的感觉也会更好，因为你是在完全顺应你的大脑和身体规律在工作。你不会产生那种严重的心理阻力和疲惫感——也就是经历过一次冲刺后会感叹“天呐，我累瘫了”的那种摩擦阻力。相反，以这种方式进行深度工作，感觉会非常棒。因此，专注冲刺是一套结构化的方法。第一步……
Original English **Guest**: What we call in our lab and in our work deep work is a focus sprint. Now a focus sprint is a method of working. It's a method of working that according to research, our research, has allowed people to do up to two times as much as they would otherwise do while also reducing the number of mistakes. And you feel better because again you're working in line with your brain and your body. You don't have that sense of friction where it's like oh my gosh I'm exhausted, you know, after doing one of these sprints right? It feels good to do that kind of deep work. So focus sprint is a method. First step...
**Steven Bartlett**: 一个专注冲刺总共分为几个步骤？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: How many steps are there in a focus sprint?
**Guest**: 五步。
Original English **Guest**: Five.
**Steven Bartlett**: 总共有五个步骤。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: There are five steps.
**Guest**: 没错，有五个步骤。
Original English **Guest**: There are five steps.
**Steven Bartlett**: 所以说，这五个步骤能让我提高 200% 的生产力？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: So these five steps will make me 200% more productive?
### 第一步：提前在日历中锁定时间 **Guest**: 嗯哼。第一步：提前在你的日历上把时间预留出来，明确将这段时间锁定封锁。这样做的目的，是让你能够充分利用大脑和身体内部的“预期性生理网络”（anticipatory networks）。举个例子，如果你提前知道自己将有一场演讲或演示需要发表……
Original English **Guest**: Mhm. First, set aside time in your calendar in advance to block the time off. You benefit from essentially anticipatory networks in the brain and body. So if you know for example that you have a speech that you need to give, a presentation...
**Steven Bartlett**: 就是你在参加某场大型活动或发表重要演讲前产生的那种感觉，对吧？比如肚子里像有蝴蝶在飞（紧张感），心跳加速，皮质醇和肾上腺素激增。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: What's the feeling that you get before like some big event or a big speech that you need to give? Like some butterflies, you get this like increase in cortisol and adrenaline, right?
**Guest**: 没准就是这样！想想看，我们的人体生物机能有多么神奇。即使我现在安安静静地坐着休息，但仅仅因为我预料到自己即将站上台去面对公众演讲，我的大脑就会通过释放额外的皮质醇和肾上腺素等神奇物质来协助我，从而使我变得更加专注、精力更充沛，以便我能够应对眼前的事情，因为这在某种程度上算是一个应激源。特别是对那些害怕公开发言的人来说，他们坐着的时候，心率就会飙升，手心也会开始冒汗。这些全都是我们所熟知的生理唤醒指标。所以我们明白，只要你提前预知专注冲刺即将到来，你的机体就会提前获得一次生理上的助力。
Original English **Guest**: I mean think about how amazing our biology is. I am sitting at rest, and even though I am sitting at rest, because I am anticipating that I'm about to get up and maybe do some public speaking, my brain is going to help me by giving me an extra boost in cortisol and adrenaline and all these amazing things so that I'm a little bit more focused and high energy and I can deal with the thing because it's a bit of a stressor. So, you know, especially if someone has a fear of public speaking, they might be sitting there and they're like, heart rate goes up, their hands start to get clammy. Those are all the markers of physiological arousal as we know them to be. So, we know that if you can, a focus sprint is coming, you're going to get a little boost.
**Steven Bartlett**: 嗯。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Mhm.
**Guest**: 所以，我极其推崇“提前安排并做好心理预期”的做法。比如在心里明确：“我准备坐下来，进行一场为期 1 小时的专注冲刺。”
Original English **Guest**: So, I'm a huge fan of set it up, know it's coming. Like, I'm going to sit down and I'm going to do a 1 hour focus sprint.
**Steven Bartlett**: 好的。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Okay.
**Guest**: 从团队协作的角度来看，这种做法还有一个极大的妙处：如果你的团队成员能看到你的日程表，因为日历是公开共享的，他们就能清楚地看到你正坐下来进行专注冲刺。这样一来，它还能在一定程度上化解人们普遍感受到的社交内疚感，以及那种总觉得自己“必须时刻回复所有消息”的强迫心理。
Original English **Guest**: The other beautiful thing about this from a team perspective is if your team can see your calendar, they can all see that you're sitting down to do a focus sprint cuz your calendar's public. So, it also deals a little bit with that social guilt people feel and that feeling that they need to say, "I need to be responsive to all the things."
### 第二步：将目标定义为具体的产出而非投入 **Guest**: 做到这一步之后，你就可以进入第二步：你必须搞清楚自己到底要做什么，并且给它下达明确的定义。你需要用清晰、简洁的语言把任务拆解开来。所以，千万不要只是泛泛地说：“我打算坐下来搞一搞项目 X。”除非你能在这场冲刺中彻底完成 X，否则那种模糊的设定根本无法给你带来成就感。这完全与大脑中的多巴胺机制相关。顺便提一下，多巴胺是大脑中主要的——你可以将它视作一种“动机分子”。它不仅能让我们对执行某项任务感到兴奋和充满干劲，而且尤其是当我们做成的事情超出原本预期时，它还会给予我们神经层面的奖赏反馈。
Original English **Guest**: And now that you've done that, you go to step two, which is you got to identify what the heck you're going to do and you need to define it. You need to break it down in clear, simple terms. So instead of saying, "I'm going to sit down and I'm going to work on X," unless you're going to finish X, that's not going to feel good. This has everything to do with dopamine. By the way, dopamine is the brain's primary, consider it a motivation molecule. So, it's going to get us not only excited and motivated to do a task, but it's also going to reward us a bit if we really do more than we even expected, especially, which brings me to a few pieces of advice.
**Guest**: 这就引出了我的几点建议。首先，你手头肯定有一份庞大繁杂的待办事项清单。
Original English **Guest**: One, you've got your massive to-do list.
**Steven Bartlett**: 是的。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Yes.
**Guest**: 你要像“逛街购物”一样去审视那张待办清单，然后挑出一项对自己说：“在接下来的这次专注冲刺中，我只挑出这一小块任务，就这一个。”也就是说，面对长长的待办列表，你挑定一项：“这就是我唯一要聚焦攻克的任务，对吧？仅仅搞定这一个。”接着，你要把选出来的这一项进一步拆解成微小、易于处理的组成部分。你要将它层层拆分，并为每一个小环节设定明确的时间块（time block）。
Original English **Guest**: You're going to shop from that to-do list and you're going to say, "In this focus sprint, I'm going to take out this one piece, this one." So, you have your massive to-do list and you're like, "That's the one thing I'm going to focus on, right? Just this one." And then you're going to take that one and then you're going to break it down into small, manageable pieces. You're going to break it down and you're going to time block every piece.
**Guest**: 你不能再笼统地说：“哦，我要做这个幻灯片演示文稿（deck）。虽然我今天做不完，但我打算推进一下。”相反，你要精确规定：“我打算花大约 7 分钟时间集中攻克第 3 页幻灯片，我觉得 7 分钟足够搞定它；接着，我需要给约翰（John）发一封跟进邮件，向他索取制作第 17 页幻灯片所需的数据；然后，我要处理我想插在这里的这个数据表格……”诸如此类。我希望看到一份极其详尽具体的“执行清单”（execution list）。顺便说一句，这种拆解方式能极大地增加你完成工作时所获得的多巴胺。如果你预设的任务本身就是无法彻底完成的，那它怎么可能激发你的动力呢？
Original English **Guest**: You're going to say, instead of saying, "Oh, I'm going to work on this deck. I'm not going to finish it, but I'm going to work on it." You're going to say, "I'm going to work on slide three for about I think it'll take me about seven minutes to finish that slide. Then I actually need to probably send a follow-up email to John for the data that I need for slide 17. Then I'm going to work on this table that I want to put here." And then blah blah blah. So, I want to see in granular detail what the execution list is. And this, by the way, increases your dopamine for getting this work done. If you're not going to finish it, how is that motivating?
**Steven Bartlett**: 明白，也就是说目标必须是一个“产出结果”（output），而不是仅仅代表“精力投入”（input）。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: So, the goal becomes an output, not the input.
**Guest**: 100% 如此。
Original English **Guest**: 100%.
**Steven Bartlett**: 好，这个切入点非常有意思。因为我觉得我们很多人制定的目标往往都是纯投入型的，比如“我打算去搞搞某件事”，或者“我要好好琢磨琢磨这个问题”，亦或是“我要规划一下这项策略”——这些都不是具体的产出，而不是那些能从这项工作中明确衡量、切实产出的成果。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Okay, that's an interesting one because I think a lot of us do create a goal which is an input like I'm going to do, I'm going to work on this thing, or I'm going to think about this, or I'm going to strategize this. Not like the output which is the thing that's going to be measurable and come out of this work.
**Guest**: 对。
Original English **Guest**: Yeah.
**Steven Bartlett**: 好吧，这确实非常发人深省。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Okay. That's, that's really interesting.
### 冲刺前明确游戏规则：切忌在跑道上思考 **Guest**: 它是带有明确执行拆解的终极产出。换言之，我需要看到一份清晰的执行清单。
Original English **Guest**: It's the outcome with a breakdown. Like I want to see an execution list.
**Steven Bartlett**: 这听起来可得花不少功夫。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: That feels like a lot of work.
**Guest**: 我真没开玩笑，其实只需要给我一分半钟就能规划好。
Original English **Guest**: I'm not kidding. Give me a minute and a half.
**Guest**: 问题就在这里：人们开始做一件事时——我相信你也肯定经历过这种情况——当他们刚刚做完步骤 1B 的那一瞬间，如果他们不能立刻知道步骤 1C 或步骤 2 是什么，如果后续步骤没有被清晰地勾勒列出，不能像机器一样进入纯粹的执行模式，他们就会停下来东张西望：“下一步该干嘛？我现在该做什么？”——就在那一刻，人们被分心了，注意力彻底涣散了。
Original English **Guest**: Here's the problem. People start something and I'm sure you've experienced this too. Then the moment they get done with let's say step 1B and they don't immediately know what step 1C is or what step two is and it's not clearly outlined and it's not just hey execution mode like a machine they go, "What's the next step? What should I do next?" That's when you lose people. That's when you lose your focus.
**Steven Bartlett**: 也就是说，在纠结“下一步该做什么”的那一瞬间，注意力就丢了。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: In deciding what the next step is.
**Guest**: 因为这是一场冲刺！我绝不希望你置身于比赛正中央时还在琢磨游戏规则到底该怎么玩。我们必须在开跑前把整个比赛机制全盘敲定，然后当你一头扎进去时，你的状态完全就是：“开跑，冲刺！”然后就是全神贯注地一路向前冲、冲、冲。所以，你已经锁定了时间段；你已经告知了团队里的伙伴，他们清楚你在干什么；你充分调动利用了体内绝妙的激素和预期性生理网络；接着……
Original English **Guest**: This is a sprint. I don't want you to figure out how to play the game when you're in the middle of the game. We need to outline what the heck the game is and then you're going to go into it be like, "Let's go sprint." And we go, go, go, go, go. So, you've blocked the time. You've communicated to the people on your team. They know what's happening. You're benefiting from all those amazing hormones and those anticipatory networks. Then,
**Steven Bartlett**: 然后是第二步。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Step two.
**Guest**: 第二步，确立目标。
Original English **Guest**: Step two, you set the goal.
**Steven Bartlett**: 而且目标必须是具体的产出，必须明确具体，并被拆解为细分的子目标。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: And the goal is an output and it's specific and it's broken down into sub goals.
**Guest**: 没错。顺便说一下，你手边有一本……
Original English **Guest**: Yes. And by the way, you've got in here...
**Steven Bartlett**: 一本日志／日程本。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: A diary.
**Guest**: 对，如果你有类似这样的每日计划手册，我希望你把你那张巨大的待办事项任务清单——我知道你肯定有一份，我们每个人手头都有这样一份清单——当作你的冰箱来看待。你手头有紧急的事……
Original English **Guest**: So, if you've got a daily planner of sorts, something like this, I want you to treat your to-do list, your massive task list, and I know you've got one, we all have one, like your refrigerator. Do you have urgent...
### 区分最重要任务（MIT）与次要任务（LIT） **嘉宾**：……你待办清单上的那些事项？比如，究竟什么是真正该做的事？你把鸡肉解冻了吗？因为那就像一颗滴答作响的定时炸弹，必须尽快处理掉。所以，每一天清晨醒来，你正准备挑选——顺便提一下，在我们实验室里把它们称为 MIT，即你最重要的任务（Most Important Tasks）。你的 MIT，也就是最重要任务，指的是在任何特定的一天里，如果你希望这一天过得充实成功，最多挑选一到两件、至多三件你想要完成的事情。
Original English **Guest**: items on your to-do list? Like, what is the thing? Did you defrost chicken? Because that's a ticking time bomb that needs to get used. So, every single day, you wake up in the morning and you're about to choose what are my I call these, by the way, in our lab MITs. your most important tasks. Your MITs or your most important tasks are the one two maximum three things on any given day that you would want to accomplish if you want your day to be a success.
**Stephen**：我想我们那里有一张关于 MIT 的图表，对吧？
Original English **Stephen**: So we've got a little chart there I think of the MITs, right?
**嘉宾**：是的。每一天，我都希望你仿佛打开冰箱、打开食品储藏柜、打开冷冻室那样，首先要问问自己：我今天到底有多少可用时间？
Original English **Guest**: Yeah. Every single day I want you to in a way open up the refrigerator, open up the pantry, open up the freezer, and I want you to ask yourself first first how much time do I have available today?
**Stephen**：3个小时。这就算不错的一天了。
Original English **Stephen**: 3 hours. That's a good day.
**嘉宾**：那是很棒的一天。指的是不被打扰的专注时间。
Original English **Guest**: That's a good day. Like uninterrupted focus time.
**Stephen**：即便不是完全不被打扰，我也可以创造出不受干扰的条件。
Original English **Stephen**: Not uninterrupted, but I can make it uninterrupted.
**嘉宾**：太棒了，这完全行得通。
Original English **Guest**: Beautiful. We'll take it.
**Stephen**：3小时非常充裕了。
Original English **Stephen**: 3 hours is beautiful.
**嘉宾**：没错。现在，你打开冰箱、储藏柜和冷冻室，看着这3个小时问自己：我的 MIT 是什么？有哪些最关键的任务，只要我今天把它做成了，这一天就算成功？针对这个问题，我们做过研究的另一种问法是：未来的你会为什么事情感谢现在的你？
Original English **Guest**: Yeah. Now, you open up the fridge, the pantry, and the freezer, and you ask yourself with this 3 hours, what are my MITs? What are the most important tasks that if I were to do them today would make my day a success? Another phrasing for this that we've done research on is what will your future self thank you for?
### 快多巴胺陷阱与冲刺策略 **Stephen**：这是个很有意思的问题，因为我们往往会下意识去抓最容易做的事，而有些事情我们其实还没完全准备好去做，因为缺少必要的信息，或者它稍微超出了我们的能力舒适圈。比如我们不喜欢财务，不喜欢投资，不喜欢繁琐的运营事务，所以我们就会逃避那些，就像你说的打开冰箱一样，我们去拿那些自己明知道喜欢吃的东西，然后把那些做掉……
Original English **Stephen**: It's an interesting question cuz we often reach for the easiest things and there's the thing that we're not quite ready to do yet cuz we don't have the information and you know maybe it's a little bit out of our era of competence. We don't like finance. We don't like invest. We don't like operations. So we avoid that and we kind of you know it's like opening the fridge as you say and we reach for the thing that we know we love like and we do that
**嘉宾**：那些就是 LIT（次要任务），比如回一封邮件、签一个电子合同对吧？我总拿从亚马逊买卫生纸之类的杂事打比方，随便什么琐事，那些只需要花五分钟、几分钟的小事，但它让我觉得自己能划掉清单上的一项，心里就会想“这件事搞定了，那件事搞定了，又完成了一件”。这些轻而易举的事能带给我们一种虚假的进展感。顺便说一句，我们把这些 LIT 归类为“快多巴胺”。而在我看来，绝大多数真正推动我们事业向前、推动我们人生向前的，通常都是右边这些属于“慢多巴胺”的事情。 当然，我并不是建议你完全不去做 LIT。我的建议是，你挑出一件、两件，最多三件真正能推动你迈向长远目标、真正至关重要的 MIT。我向你保证，LIT 自然会填满你一整天当中所有其他的边角料时间。比如，如果你有一小时不被打扰的整块时间，那就是你用来攻克这些 MIT 的时候；而如果你在会议和电话之间有15分钟的空隙，你就把 LIT 塞进这些碎时间里。
Original English **Guest**: those are lit like an email a docu sign right um I always say like toilet paper from Amazon or something like whatever like the little tiny things that will take 5 minutes a couple minutes but it makes me feel like I can cross something off and it's like I've done the thing I've done the thing I've done the thing these are the easy things to that make me feel a sense of progress. We consider these, by the way, these lit fast dopamine. And my humble opinion is most of the the things that push our businesses forward, the things that push our lives forward are typically here to the right. They're the slow dopamine bits. Now, I'm not suggesting, by the way, that you don't do lit. My suggestion is you identify one, two, or a maximum of three MITs that are actually going to push you towards your goals, your long-term goals, the things that actually matter. And I assure you, the lit will fill in all of the other nooks and crannies for your day. Like if you've got an uninterrupted hour, that's when you attack one of these MITs. And then if you've got 15 minutes between some meetings and calls, you shove the lit in there.
**Stephen**：所以 MIT 是最重要的目标，而 LIT 是最不重要的目标。
Original English **Stephen**: So MITs are most important goals. LITs are least important goals.
**嘉宾**：嗯。
Original English **Guest**: Mhm.
**Stephen**：好的。那么回到“专注冲刺”，当我们说第二步是设定目标时，在理想状态下，顺便说一句，你可以做两种不同类型的冲刺：你可以针对某一个 MIT 进行冲刺，做法是把那个 MIT 拆解成可执行的小块。好的，为了今天在这1小时内啃下那个庞大的 MIT，我要花20分钟做这个，15分钟做那个，5分钟做这个，3分钟做那个等等，也就是做出一份执行清单。或者，你也可以来一场 LIT 冲刺，一口气消灭大概15个次要琐事。
Original English **Stephen**: Okay. So, going back to the focus sprint, when we said step two is set the goal, what you would ideally do, and this is, by the way, you could do one of two different kinds of sprints. You could do a sprint on one MIT, and what you would do is you take that MIT, and then you would actually break it down into small, manageable chunks. Okay. Okay. In order for me to do that big MIT today, in this 1 hour of time, I'm going to spend 20 minutes on this, 15 minutes on this, 5 minutes on this, three minutes on this. D. So, you make an execution list. Or you could do an LIT sprint. You could do like 15 lits.
### 从终极目标与临终反思中锚定方向 **Stephen**：我们能假定大家都清楚自己的 MIT 是什么吗？比如我看着自己待办清单上的69件事，我有什么办法知道哪一件才是最重要的呢？
Original English **Stephen**: Are we assuming that people will know what the MIT is? Like, yeah, you I look at this list of 69 things on my to-do list. How do I Is there a way for me to know which one is the most important?
**嘉宾**：如果你不知道，那我建议我们必须再往后退一步，对你的长期目标进行一些觉察训练。不论在个人生活还是职业生涯中，比如说5年后，你想达到怎样的境地？
Original English **Guest**: If you don't know, then I would that would urge us to take an even further step back and sort of do a bit of awareness training on what your long-term goals are. Yeah. Where do you want to be both personally and professionally? Let's say in 5 years.
**Stephen**：什么是你的珠穆朗玛峰？
Original English **Stephen**: What is your Everest?
**嘉宾**：你的珠穆朗玛峰是什么？如果你心里清楚你的珠峰在哪里，你就应该清楚自己下一步该往哪儿走。如果珠峰在那个方向，你就绝不会朝相反的方向走，而且偏离路线往往相当危险。我还想说一点，我非常热衷于谈论死亡，因为我发现死亡能把所有事情的轻重缓急厘清。在我看来，最好的思考框架就是切实想象自己躺在临终的病榻上。 如果你把自己带入临终床榻的情境，暗自思忖——顺便说一句，你现在就可以跟我一起在脑海中具象化这个画面。假设在未来所有现代科技和长寿医学的帮助下，你活到了110岁的高龄。回望你的一生，你需要经历过什么、成就过什么、做过什么，才能在离世时脸上带着微笑，坦然地说“这一生太精彩了，我做得很好，活得十分尽兴，我已经完成了想做的事，准备好启程去看看下一站了”？面对这个问题，你的答案会是什么？
Original English **Guest**: What is your Everest? If you have a sense of what your Everest is, you then ought to have a sense of what your next step is. If Everest is that way, you're not going to go this way. That way is also quite dangerous. And I will say this, this is um I'm a huge fan of talking about death because I find that it puts everything into perspective. My humble opinion is that the best framing is to really think about yourself on your deathbed. Is if you take yourself onto your deathbed and you think to yourself and truly by the way vis you can visualize this right now even with me. Let's say you're the tender age of 110 with all of the modern technology and longevity medicine that's going to come out. What looking back on your life do you need to have experienced, accomplished, done in order for you to leave with a smile on your face and to just say it's been real. I did good. Had an amazing life. I did what I wanted to do here and I'm ready to go. See what's next. What's your answer to that?
**Stephen**：我希望自己曾深深地爱过。我希望——这只是我个人的信念，我也不知道源头在哪里，可能需要心理治疗师来帮我们深挖剖析一下——但我坚信仆人式领导。我认为自己来到这个星球上，就是为了尽我所能去提供帮助。因此我的职责就是去服务，用我的所作所为和奉献让世界变得更好。这是我的痴迷所在，这也付出了巨大的代价，放弃了许多其他事物，失去了很多别人眼中的乐趣或经历了个人的牺牲。但我思维的特质似乎就是如此，我一心专注于为人类构建更好的系统。 当你刚才让我做那个思考时，我感到豁然开朗。因为当我闭上双眼想象自己的临终病榻时，我置身于一个房间里，我最先注意到的就是有谁在那里。
Original English **Stephen**: I want to have loved deeply. I want to and this is my own and I don't know where this comes from. We probably need a therapist um on with us to to unpack this one. But I'm a firm believer in servant leadership. I think I've been put on the planet to to help in whatever ways that I can. So my job is to serve and to make this world a better place in the with what I do and what I can bring to the table. And that's my obsession. And it's come at a great cost of not doing a lot of other things and not having a lot of what maybe other people see as fun or um personal sacrifices. But it seems to be uh the the flavor of my mind is that I'm squarely focused on building better systems for humanity. It was very um it was very clarifying when you asked me to do that as well because when I closed my eyes and started thinking about my deathbed, I was in a room and what I noticed was first and foremost who was there.
**嘉宾**：那是浮现出的第一件事。
Original English **Guest**: That was like the first thing
**Stephen**：对，然后我的第二点反应是：他们怎么看我？我想象着自己的伴侣守在一旁，想象着所有的孩子围绕在病床四周，我想象着他们如何看待自己垂死的父亲。其实我只希望他们心中留有三点想法：第一，我希望他们认为我有所建树，从而明白他们自己也能做到，我就是活生生的证明；第二点是关于让世界变得更加美好，他们清清楚楚地看到自己的父亲所产生过的慈善与利他影响。 所以那真的让我一下子看清了，它基本赋予了我三项清晰的优先事项：家庭与拥有一个大家庭；成为他们的好榜样；以及让他们亲眼见证我来到这个世界上给地球带来了正向价值。这一切极其明朗，因为真正重要的就这三件事。
Original English **Stephen**: and then my second thing was what do they think of me? So there was like so I imagined my romantic interest being here and then I imagined all of my kids being around the bed and I imagined what they thought of their dying father and there was really like three things that I wanted them to think. I wanted them to to think that I had achieved things so that they can too and to be evidence of that. Um the second one was around that I'd made the world a better place. So they had like they were clear on the philanthropic impact that that their father had had. Yeah. So that was really clarifying because it it basically gave me three clear priorities which are like family and having a big family. Um being a good role model to them and then them having evidence that me being here was net positive to planet you know. So that but it was really clarifying cuz there's really three things that matter.
**嘉宾**：这就赋予了你明确的方向。
Original English **Guest**: So that gives you your direction.
**Stephen**：是的，确实如此。
Original English **Stephen**: Yeah it does.
**嘉宾**：所以，如果你现在每天早晨醒来都拥有这种高度的清晰感……
Original English **Guest**: So if you wake up every single morning now with that level of clarity
**Stephen**：我就可以告诉自己：吃彩虹糖可不会让我离目标更近一步。那些廉价的糖果满足不了目标。
Original English **Stephen**: I can go the Skittles are not going to bring me closer. the Skittles.
**嘉宾**：对，彩虹糖不行。那算什么呢？有谁会在临终病榻上躺着感叹：“唉，我真希望当初多刷点奈飞”？奈飞请别找我麻烦。又有谁会躺在那里后悔：“唉，我真希望当初多花点时间刷短视频，少陪陪孩子，或者少花点时间在我的使命、我全身心投入的使命上”？根本没有人会这么想。 布朗妮·维尔（Bronnie Ware）是一位临终关怀护士，她曾陪伴过许许多多走向生命终点的人。能做这样的事情是多么大的殊荣。这也是我希望在自己一生中去做的事——运用我作为临终导乐的技能，去陪伴那些即将离开人世的人们。能守在他们身边是无上的荣幸，因为天哪，你会在那里获得无与伦比的清醒。她曾询问这些人：“你有什么遗憾吗？”并且记录下了他们给出的答案。而在所有被问到这个问题的临终者中，排名第一的遗憾是：“我真希望当初能过一种真正忠于自己的生活，而不是那么在乎别人怎么看。”所以对你来说，Stephen，听起来所有这些……
Original English **Guest**: Yeah. the Skittles. Like what is that? Like in what way? Like who on their deathbed is sitting around and going, "Damn, I wished I watched more Netflix." Netflix, please don't come after me. Who's sitting around going, "Damn, I wish I spent more time scrolling and less time with my kids or less time on my mission, on my obsessive mission." Like, nobody. Um, Bronny Wear is a hospice nurse and she sat with many many dying individuals. What an honor to do such a thing. Um, something that I hope to do um in my lifetime as is to sort of be, you know, exercise my death doula skills and to to be with folks who are we're passing on and um what an honor it is to sit with them because oh boy, you get some clarity. So she asked these people, "What are your regrets?" And she would keep a log of the answers they gave. And the number one regret across all of the people that she asked this question to who were dying was, "I wish I lived a life more true to myself, cared less about what others thought." So for you, Stephen, it sounds like all that
### 意识的孤立与深度连接的悖论 **Sahar**: 归根结底，对你而言真正重要的，是你如何看待自己的成就、如何看待自己投入的时间，以及家人对这些的看法。顺便说一句，甚至连他们怎么想都不那么绝对，因为你永远无法真正探知另一个人的内心。无论我们彼此之间爱得有多深，我们都是孤独地来到这个世界，也终将孤独地离去。 在我看来，这是关于爱与人类连接的悖论之一：新生儿来到世上发出的第一声啼哭，其实就是在呼唤连接。他们感到恐惧，在哭喊着：“等等，这一刻我感受到了断联。此前我一直与外界紧密相连，而现在我却被孤立了。”于是他们本能地寻求连接。我认为，人类终其一生都在追寻这种连接与归属感。可这其中的悖论在于——如果从心智的本质来看——我们永远无法彻底得到它。 我们独自死去。就像我永远无法真正理解你的心智一样。这就是意识的奇妙之处：你拥有属于你的意识，我拥有属于我的意识。甚至时时刻刻都在变化，我此时此刻的意识，已经与前一刻截然不同。我已经变了。事物总在不断改变与演化。相同的时刻绝不会重演，这意味着相同的自我也不会重现。随着每一秒流逝，实际上现在的我是“萨哈尔 100,000,000 版”，下一刻又是全新的一版，再下一刻又是一个新版本。我们始终处在动态变化中。不过，这本身又是另一个值得深究的独立话题了。
Original English **Sahar**: ...matters to you at the end of the day is what your family thought of your accomplishments and how you spent your time is how you think. And it's, by the way, it's not even them because you'll never really know what the other person thinks. We come into this world alone and we do die alone no matter how much we love each other. This is uh one of the paradoxes I find of love and human connection is that from that first cry that a newborn screams out when they're born, they're crying out for connection. They're scared and they're saying, "Wait, I feel disconnection in this moment. I was connected before and now I feel disconnected." And they're seeking connection. I think humans, we are seeking this connection and this belonging for the rest of our lives. But the paradox of it, the mind of it if I may, is we'll never get it. We die alone. Like I will never understand your mind. This is the fascinating thing about consciousness. You have your consciousness. I have mine. And even moment to moment, my consciousness now in this moment is different than it was the last moment. I've changed. Things continue to change and evolve. The same moment never repeats itself, which means the same self never repeats itself. Every second that's going by, I am in fact Sahar v 100 million da da da and then the next moment it's another and the next moment is another. Like we continue to be dynamic, but that's its own little rabbit hole.
**Stephen**: 但顺着这个话题探讨下去，其实确实存在某些瞬间……
Original English **Stephen**: But on that own little rabbit hole, there's there's moments...
**Sahar**: 我完全同意并接受你的看法。确实有那么一些瞬间，你会觉得自己的意识正在……
Original English **Sahar**: I completely agree and accept what you're saying. There are these moments when you just feel like your consciousness has...
**Stephen**: 正在与另一个人的意识共跳探戈。两者紧密交织在一起。每个人都能回想起那样的时刻：当你注视着某个人时，心里会想：“我不知道那究竟是什么，但在某种极深的层面上，我与这个人产生了共鸣，我们的意识正在共舞。”
Original English **Stephen**: ...is doing the tango with someone else's. It is intertwined and you can we as I say everyone can think of those moments when you look at someone and you go I don't know what it is but at some deep level me and this person are we're our consciousness is dancing.
**Sahar**: 是的。
Original English **Sahar**: Yeah.
**Stephen**: 彼此之间彻底连接在了一起，那是一种非常真实的感觉。在这个播客录制中我经常能体会到这一点，因为我常常坐在这里，花上三个小时听嘉宾倾诉他们的童年、他们的创伤等等。
Original English **Stephen**: It's connected and that's a very real thing. I experience it a lot on this podcast cuz you know I sit here with three hours talk about their childhood their trauma whatever...
**Sahar**: 你会与眼前这个生命产生一种极其深沉的连接感。有时候，这种体验甚至会以一种奇特却令人沉醉的方式升华为精神层面的体验。
Original English **Sahar**: ...you feel a deep deep sense of connection to this other human being. Sometimes it's almost it can be a spiritual experience in a weird but enjoyable way.
**Stephen**: 我觉得你这句话切中了要害。这是一种精神性的体验，也是一种能量层面的共振。
Original English **Stephen**: I think you hit the nail on the head there. I think it's spiritual. I think it's energetic.
**Sahar**: 嗯。
Original English **Sahar**: Mhm.
**Stephen**: 我觉得当我们体会到那种感觉时，它其实非常像“心流”（flow）。我不知道你是否也有同感？
Original English **Stephen**: I think when we feel that experience of what by the way feels like flow, I don't know if it feels that way to you,
**Sahar**: 你会感觉自己与对方一同处于心流之中，仿佛你和我能在一个共同的维度上相遇相连。顺便提一下，刚才我们在聊临终床前的遗憾、探讨意识的本质时，我就真切地体会到了这一点。我看到你的目光瞬间高度聚焦，而那一刻我甚至没有刻意专注于你本身，更多的是沉浸在自我表达的状态里。我认为，两个人要达成那种心流、跳起能量的共舞，关键在于放下自我意识（loss of the sense of self）。在那些瞬间，“自我”必须消融，而当我们彻底沉浸于彼此交融的“我们”时，自我确实消散了。一旦我们被困在个人的小我和身份认知里，我就只会意识到面前有一个“他者”，会时刻留意你如何看待我……
Original English **Sahar**: but you feel in flow with the other like if you and I can connect in that plane. And I felt it, by the way, even when we were just doing that that bit about the deathbed and talking about consciousness and I felt you your eyes just all of a sudden zoomed in and I even was I wasn't really focused on you necessarily in that moment. There was something about me expressing. I think what is necessary for two humans to have that flow together, that energetic dance together is a loss of the sense of self. I think the self must die in those moments and it does when we completely lose ourselves in this we I think when we are stuck in our own self and identity then I am aware of another. I am aware of your perception of me
**Stephen**: ……而你也会时刻在意我对你的审视。
Original English **Stephen**: and you will be aware of my perception of you.
**Sahar**: 但在那些充满魔力的时刻，两者彻底融为一体：我不再把你视作独立的客体，我也不再执着于固有的自我，你和我凝聚成了一个充满能量的“我们”。
Original English **Sahar**: But I think those moments where it feels just magic and we've completely blended that I'm not no longer thinking about you as an other and I as I and you have become this energetic we.
### 从人际共鸣到工作中的心流状态 **Stephen**: 虽说这听起来偏向精神层面，但它其实与工作状态无缝契合。我们每个人都能想到进入工作心流时的状态：全神贯注地扎进工作中，不知不觉三个小时就过去了，完全察觉不到时间的流逝。在某种程度上，这与那些人际连接的时刻感受完全一致——当我真正全情投入工作时，时间仿佛停滞了，我也庆幸它停滞了，根本意识不到时间的存在。这和做播客如出一辙。每当你经历了一场精彩绝伦的深度对话，走出来后都会惊呼：“什么？居然聊了4个小时？刚才到底发生了什么？”
Original English **Stephen**: But again that bit more spiritual. No, but it it perfectly dovetales into work because we can all think of flow states where we dropped into work and 3 hours passed. We had no idea that time was passing. We were so in and it it to some degree feels the same as those moments like when I'm really into my work. I just time does stop and I'm so glad it did. I didn't even notice time was a thing. And that's actually the same as being a podcaster. When you have really great conversations, you walk out and you go, "What? 4 hours? What the happened?" Like,
**Sahar**: 没错。
Original English **Sahar**: yeah.
**Stephen**: 那么……
Original English **Stephen**: So,
**Sahar**: 好的。假定你已经设定了目标，列出了执行清单，挑选出了最重要的核心任务（MIT，Most Important Task），并且将它拆解开来，让它变得像一份低门槛任务清单（list of LITs）一样简单易行。顺便说一下，描述这个机制的另一种方式是……
Original English **Sahar**: okay. So, you've set your goal, you have your execution list, you've taken your MIT, you've broken it down, you've made it as easy and simple as like a list of lit. Another way, by the way, to describe this is
### 慢多巴胺、奶酪与迷宫：把庞大目标拆解为即时奖赏 **Sahar**: 核心任务（MIT）与“慢多巴胺”的关系，就像一只老鼠穿行在迷宫中。迷宫的终点放着一大块奶酪，但要吃到它需要耗费大量精力，那是一段漫长而艰辛的旅途。相反，“快多巴胺”和微小任务（LIT）就像散落在沿途的小奶酪碎屑，你会觉得：“吃掉这颗碎屑难吗？”大脑会立刻回应：“当然不难，看起来很容易，就在眼前，吃掉它吧。”对吧？因此，核心秘诀就是让你攻克核心任务的过程，变得像处理碎屑任务清单一样轻松。而实现这一目标的方法，就是把那一大块奶酪切成细小的碎屑，沿途撒满整个迷宫。
Original English **Sahar**: an MIT, slow dopamine is like a rat going through a maze, and there's a big hunk of cheese at the end of the maze, but that's a lot of work. That is a long, arduous journey to get to that hunk of cheese. Whereas fast dopamine and lits are like little bits of cheese that you're like, can you just eat that crumb? And it's like, sure, that seems easy enough. Eat right there. Right? So the goal is to make your MITs as easy as your a list of lit. And how you do that is you take that big hunk of cheese and you sprinkle it throughout the maze.
**Stephen**: 这样一来，你就把眼前巍峨的珠穆朗玛峰，变成了一步接一步的行进过程。老子说得最好：“千里之行，始于足下。”我丈夫最近去攀登了乞力马扎罗山。
Original English **Stephen**: So you make your big Everest seem like a series of one step to the next step to the next step. Loud Sue said it best. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Uh my husband just um climbed uh Mount Kilimanjaro.
**Sahar**: 哇，这太了不起了。这些事情我绝对不会选择去尝试。
Original English **Sahar**: Oh wow. Um yeah, amazing things that I would do not choose to do.
**Stephen**: 面对这种挑战你会直接拒绝。
Original English **Stephen**: You said no to that.
**Sahar**: 我确实直接拒绝了。这就是证明——我确实懂得如何说“不”。通常是在面对极其艰难的极限体能挑战时。我也有自己的追求，但我更偏爱脑力层面的挑战。言归正传，他去攀登了乞力马扎罗山。回来之后他分享说，那些一路陪伴协助的向导夏尔巴人有一句口头禅。顺便说一句，那些向导简直堪称超人，在高海拔环境中健步如飞，上下山如履平地，对他们来说就像喝水一样简单，身上还背负着大量的重物，太神奇了，简直像魔法一样。但他回来后说，最让他铭记在心、甚至成了我们日常对话常说的一句话，就是那些出色的向导总是在提醒大家：“嘿，慢慢来，一步一步走（pole, pole，斯瓦希里语意为慢点、稳点），慢慢来。”
Original English **Sahar**: I said no to that. That's exactly there is I do know how to say no. It's typically with really difficult physical feats. Um I have my own but I prefer the mental ones. But uh but yeah, he went he climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. And when he came back, he said that the the mantra of these amazing um cherpas that take you up and down that come with you, by the way, they're superhuman. Like literally running up and down this mountain, even with all of the the elevation as if it's nothing. It's like drinking water them. It's amazing. And and carrying a bunch of with him. It's amazing. Magic. Magic. But he came back and he said what really stuck with him and it's become a thing that we say to each other sometimes. And all of these amazing guides would keep telling everybody, "Hey, pol slowly, slowly, pol
### “关注脚踏而非领奖台”与进展原则 **Stephen**: 慢慢来，稳稳走。这是登上顶峰的唯一途径。如果你满脑子想的都只是登顶珠峰，而没有专注于走好当下的每一步——每天迈近一点、再迈近一点、又迈近一点——你根本不可能抵达终点。如果你去和奥运运动员交谈，他们也是一模一样的做法。这正是我所联想到的。我想到了戴夫·布雷斯福德爵士（Sir Dave Brailsford），也就是《原子习惯》（Atomic Habits）第一章所引用的那位教练，正是他带领英国自行车队通过“边际效益”（marginal gains）彻底逆袭。
Original English **Stephen**: slowly, slowly. It's the only way up to the top. If all you focus on is the Everest, you will not get there if you don't focus on taking the step every day. A little closer, a little closer, a little closer." You speak to Olympic athletes, they do the exact same thing. That's what I was thinking of. I was thinking of seeing who was Sir David Brzford who's the guy quoted in the first chapter of Atomic Habits turning the British cycling team around marginal gains.
**Sahar**: 太精彩了。
Original English **Sahar**: Beautiful.
**Stephen**: 无论在镜头前还是私底下，他都是我的挚友。大家都熟知边际收益这个理念：聚焦于最细微的环节。他在节目中亲口告诉我，他曾明令禁止队员去想领奖台的事，这与你刚才所讲的完全不谋而合。他让他们把全部心力放在当天的训练上。因此，我们团队内部诞生了一句我常挂在嘴边的话——仅这周我就对团队说了三次：“专注脚踏，别看领奖台（pedals over podiums）。”这句话的意思是，踏踏实实专注于今天脚踩的脚踏板。他提到，当时他指导克里斯·霍伊（Chris Hoy）——正是他将英国自行车队从一蹶不振打造成史上最强车队——当克里斯·霍伊心里还在想着……
Original English **Stephen**: He's a good friend of mine on and off camera. And he everyone knows about the marginal gains idea. Focus on the smallest things. He said to me on air, he said um he banned his team from thinking about the podium, which is very much what you're saying as well. And he really got them focused on like today's work. So this phrase emerged that I say to my team, I've said it three times this week, pedals over podiums. And what that means is like really focus on the pedals today because the he said that when he had Christopher Hoy, you know, again that he took the British cycling team from being down and out to the greatest of all time. When Christopher Hoy was thinking about
**Stephen**: ……破世界纪录或者登上领奖台之类的事时，他的骑行成绩反而变差了。而当教练引导克里斯·霍伊进入一种近似禅定冥想的状态，彻底禁止他去琢磨结果时，他在自行车馆里的单圈用时不仅大幅提升，而且当克里斯·霍伊从自行车上下来后，甚至表示自己完全记不得刚刚骑行的具体过程了。
Original English **Stephen**: the the the world record or the podium, whatever, his time would get worse. And when he got Christopher Hoy, if he got him to sort of drop into a meditative state and ban him thinking about that, not only would his time get better around the drrome, but Christopher Hoy would get off the bike and and say he couldn't remember the cycle.
**Sahar**: 是的。
Original English **Sahar**: Yeah.
**Stephen**: 我认为这就是真正的心流状态。而且……
Original English **Stephen**: Which I I think is this flow state. And
**Sahar**: 确实如此。
Original English **Sahar**: it is
**Stephen**: 他私底下还对我说过另一件震撼人心的事。他说：“斯蒂芬，当我们开始聚焦于细微之处，将大目标拆解成一个个极其微小的目标时，队员们不再一到下午5点就急着离开，反而自愿留下来加练到凌晨1点，因为大家真切地感受到我们正在取得突破，正向着目标切实迈进。”基于那次对话，我把这种现象称为“进展原则”（progress principle），也就是那种感受到切实前进的动力。
Original English **Stephen**: other remarkable thing that he said to me um off camera was he went Stephen when we started focusing on the small things and broke goals down into really really small goals. People stopped leaving at 5:00 p.m. and started staying till 1:00 a.m. in the morning because we felt like we were going somewhere. And this this is what I referred to as from that conversation as the progress principle which is like the feeling of progress.
**Sahar**: 没错！《哈佛商业评论》（Harvard Business Review）有一项非常精彩的研究，调查人们在工作中感到最美妙的一天是哪一天，结果显示，正是他们体会到细微进展的时刻。
Original English **Sahar**: Yes. And there's this incredible um Harvard Business Review study where they asked people what their favorite day in work was and it was when they had a small feeling of progress.
**Stephen**: 所以当你提到把最重要的核心任务（MITs）转化成这些轻量任务（lits）时，我内心深感共鸣，因为我之所以热衷于处理轻量任务，正是因为我能从中立刻获得……
Original English **Stephen**: So it really resonated with me when you said turn the like MITs into these lit cuz the reason I like the lit is cuz I get the
### 消除阻碍与切断干扰：专注的第三步原则 **Speaker A**：……进展原则（progress principle）。
Original English **Speaker A**: ...progress principle.
**Speaker B**：是的。
Original English **Speaker B**: Yes.
**Speaker A**：我能体会到那种感觉，就是“哦，我正在取得进展，我感觉自己正朝着某个目标前进”。
Original English **Speaker A**: I get the like oh I'm making I feel like I am going somewhere.
**Speaker B**：没错。
Original English **Speaker B**: Yes.
**Speaker A**：而对于那些最重要的任务（MITs，Most Important Tasks），除非你采取刚才所说的方法——也就是将它们逐步拆解——否则其实很难获得这种推进感。
Original English **Speaker A**: The MITs it's hard to get that feeling unless you do what you just said which is breaking them down.
**Speaker B**：确实是这样。
Original English **Speaker B**: Yeah.
**Speaker A**：这就非常自然且顺畅地把我们带到了第三步。要提高信号强度，或者说要达成目标 X（无论那个具体目标是什么），最好的途径往往是通过消除障碍，而不是去额外增加负担。
Original English **Speaker A**: Which brings us to step three beautifully. The best way to increase the signal or to get to X, whatever it may be, is to remove obstacles as opposed to adding.
**Speaker B**：扫除障碍，降低噪音。而要降低噪音，具体的做法就是切断各种分心物。现在你已经确立了自己的“珠穆朗玛峰”（终极远大目标），并且秉持“慢慢来，稳步走”（ple-ple）的原则，你明确知晓了迈出的下一步该是什么。
Original English **Speaker B**: Remove the obstacles. Turn down noise. And you turn that into noise by cutting distractions. So you now you've got your Everest. Ple ple. You know the next step.
**Speaker A**：“慢慢来，稳步走”（Ple ple），我非常喜欢这个表达短语。
Original English **Speaker A**: Ple ple. I love that phrase.
**Speaker B**：一步一步，慢慢地迈出下一个脚印。这完全是同样的道理：关键在于脚下踩着的踏板（行动过程），而不是最终站在颁奖台上（结果目标）。
Original English **Speaker B**: Slowly, slowly the next step. And it's the same thing. It's the pedal, not the podium.
**Speaker A**：嗯，完全同意。
Original English **Speaker A**: Mhm.
**Speaker B**：彻底切除各种分心干扰。这需要一种卫生习惯、生活卫生、工作环境卫生。也就是说：让手机处于视线之外，眼不见心不烦，关掉所有的消息推送通知。如果你身处在一个嘈杂吵闹的环境中，或者你觉得听音乐对工作有所助益，那么你就戴上耳机。
Original English **Speaker B**: Cut out the distractions. Hygiene, hygiene, hygiene. So, phone out of sight, out of mind, notifications off. If you're in a noisy environment or if you benefit from listening to music, then you put on headphones.
### 降噪耳机与工作配乐背后的脑科学机制 **Speaker A**：关于听音乐工作以及戴耳机工作这件事，你持什么样的看法？科学研究对此到底是怎么解释的？
Original English **Speaker A**: What is your opinion on listening to music to do work and putting headphones on? What does the science say?
**Speaker B**：人与人之间当然存在着个体差异。有些人似乎很容易被声音分心，他们更偏好彻底的安静。如果你无法处于一个绝对安静的环境中，那么你可能会从主动降噪功能中获益，对吧？ 不过，我并不建议一天连续使用降噪功能或佩戴主动降噪耳机超过三到四个小时。因为长时间隔绝外界声音，会让你在重新面对真实世界的声音时感到感官过度刺激（overstimulated）。降噪改变了你大脑对“世界原本应该是什么声音”的基线认知，你的大脑开始逐渐调整适应，并开始认为：“哇，整个世界竟然安静得连一根针掉在地上都能听见。” 不，亲爱的，现实世界实际上要比那嘈杂得多。因此，一旦你摘下降噪耳机，你瞬间就会感到震惊：“天哪！”你可能会开始感到焦虑不安，感官受到过度刺激，与此同时，你的听觉神经系统实际上也会对这种降噪环境产生适应性变化。 所以对于降噪功能，我建议只在进行“专注冲刺”（focus sprints）时使用。如果你告诉我你每天有三个小时的深度专注时间，那正好契合这三个小时的上限。如果你能从安静中获益，那么只需在进行高强度专注冲刺时开启降噪即可。 至于听音乐，最理想的选择是完全没有任何歌词的纯音乐，或者是用你完全听不懂的语言演唱的歌曲。此外，你还可以建立并投资维护一个专门的歌单——随着时间推移，只要你持续在这个特定歌单中投入，你的大脑就会潜移默化地将这组旋律与高度专注的工作状态紧密绑定在一起。
Original English **Speaker B**: People are different, of course. So, some people seem to be distracted by it and they prefer silence. And if you don't if you cannot be in a silent environment, you may benefit from noise cancelling, right? I don't recommend listening to noise cancelling or having noise cancelling headphones on for more than 3 four hours a day because it you start to become overstimulated by the real sounds of the world around you because it changes your baseline of what the world ought to sound like and your brain starts to adjust and it starts to think wow this is the world you can hear a pin drop no darling the the world is much noisier than that so then the moment you don't have the noise cancelling on you become you're like oh my and you start you start getting anxious and you start becoming overstimulated and also your auditory system starts to actually adapt to the noise cancelling. So noise cancelling I would say use it for focus sprints only. So if you told me you got 3 hours a day that hits your 3 hours. So you can use the noise cancelling only for when maybe you want to do focus sprints if you benefit from the silence. If you're going to listen to music, ideally music with no lyrics at all or lyrics in a language that you don't understand. You can also benefit from having one particular playlist that you invest in that your brain will over time if you invest in it slowly associate with focus.
### 进度标记与计时器驱动的心理机制 **Speaker B**：你可以设置一个专属的“深度专注模式歌单”，也可以设置一个“邮件冲刺歌单”，而这些歌单与你下班后用来放松身心或睡前聆听的音乐应该截然不同。你应该针对大脑不同的运转状态配备不同的歌单。 好了，当你通过这种方式为自己奠定了成功的基石之后，接下来——设定一个计时器。一定要设定一个计时器。人类，包括一个很有趣的科学事实，绝大多数哺乳动物，都会受到所谓的“进度标记”（markers of progress）极其深刻的影响。这意味着，只要我们眼睁睁看着时间一分一秒地流逝，我们的行动速度就会自然而然地加快。
Original English **Speaker B**: So you can have like a focus mode playlist. You can have an email sprint you know playlist and then very very different from what you might listen to to wind down after work or to sleep. You should have different playlist for different brain states. Okay. So you've set yourself up in that way for success. Then set a timer. Set a timer. Human beings and fun fact, most mammals uh are highly influenced by what are called markers of progress. Which means if we see time ticking by, we will just work faster.
**Speaker A**：你的意思是指倒计时还是正计时？是指时间从 60 分钟开始往下逐秒减少，还是从 0 秒一直累计计时到 60 分钟？
Original English **Speaker A**: Do you mean is it time ticking down or time ticking up? So is it going from 60 minutes down or is it going from 0 to 60?
**Speaker B**：我们对任何形式的进展信号都抱有极其敏锐的本能兴趣，比如进度条就是如此。
Original English **Speaker B**: We're keenly interested in any sense of progress. So progress bars.
**Speaker A**：明白。
Original English **Speaker A**: Okay.
**Speaker B**：是的。话虽如此，从提高生产力的实战角度来看，我发现能够让你获得巨大益处、能够让你真正充满紧迫感并全力保持专注的做法，其实是看着时间在一点点倒数流逝。正是倒计时能起到这种作用。
Original English **Speaker B**: Yeah. Um having said that where I find from a productivity standpoint you will get a lot of interesting benefit is like just to hustle and to stay focused is seeing the time ticking down. Okay.
### 帕金森定律与“收拾歌”的行动心理学 **Speaker B**：举一个非常童趣但极具启发性的例子——幼儿园里的“收拾歌”（cleanup songs）。小孩子是极度容易被周围事物分散注意力的生物。假设在一间教室里，他们把玩具扔得满地都是，此时如果你要求他们把玩具收拾干净，比如对他们说“把所有的玩具放回收纳筐里，等等，把这里整理干净”，那么到了捡起第三件玩具的时候，你就只能祝自己好运了，对吧？他们早就跑偏了，被别的东西吸引住，分心跑去玩别的了。 但这里正是“收拾歌”科学魅力发挥作用的地方。全世界的幼教老师其实都在用这一套方法：当孩子们还小的时候，老师会在教室里教他们唱收拾歌。这样一来，孩子们手头正在做的事情突然拥有了极其清晰的起点和终点。这首歌让他们保持专注，让他们紧盯当前任务，而且他们明确知道这首歌随时都会唱完。正因为他们感知到时间在一点一滴流逝、音乐即将走向尾声，他们突然之间变得极具目标导向性，注意力高度集中，开始飞快地把玩具收好，尤其是在整首歌曲临近结束的那最后几十秒里，动作更是格外迅速。
Original English **Speaker B**: Using a very childlike example of cleanup songs. Little kids are highly distractable creatures. Now, if you ask them to, they've like thrown about all of their toys, let's say, in a classroom, and you ask them to put their toys away, like put all the toys in the in the bins and da da da and clean up, they're going to by the third thing they pick up, but guess of luck, right? They're they're off. They're looking at something else and they they're distracted and playing. Here comes the science of cleanup songs. You teach all these kids, and this is true, by the way, across the world. When when they're little, teachers will teach them to have a cleanup song in class. Now there is a clear beginning and a clear end to what they're trying to do and it keeps them focused. It keeps them on task and they know the song is going to end. And because the time is ticking by and the song is going to end, they all of a sudden start getting very goal oriented and focused and they start putting the toys away, especially near the end of the song.
**Speaker A**：这就是帕金森定律（Parkinson's law）的体现。
Original English **Speaker A**: They're Parkinson's law.
**Speaker B**：帕金森定律指出：工作会自动膨胀延展，直到填满所有分配给它完成的时间为止。因此，如果你给自己设定一个小时来把那份该死的演示文稿做完，那么它很可能就会花费一个小时；但如果你给自己留出整整五个小时，它就必然会拖延消耗你五个小时。确实就是这样。 所以，为自己计时吧。顺便说一句，几乎生活中的所有事情你都可以尝试计时。你需要打扫屋子，或者有些外出的琐事要办——给自己设定计时。一旦有了倒计时，你的做事效率就会自然而然地大幅提升。
Original English **Speaker B**: Parkinson's law states that work will expand to fit the time that you give it. So, if you give yourself an hour to get the damn deck done, it'll probably take an hour. If you give yourself five, it'll take five. Yeah. So, time yourself. You'll, by the way, time yourself with everything. You want to You need to clean your house. You have some errands to run. Time yourself. You will just work faster.
### 时间分配：对人生产生影响力的终极杠杆 **Speaker A**：大约在五年前，有一个观点深深地烙印在了我的脑海里，所以我现在也非常想把它植入到更多人的脑海当中。
Original English **Speaker A**: This idea got stuck in my head about 5 years ago, so I'd like to stick it in some other people's heads.
**Speaker B**：好的，请讲。
Original English **Speaker B**: Okay.
**Speaker A**：我曾经读到过这样一句话：“你在这一生中对这个星球产生影响力的核心立足点，归根结底取决于你对时间的分配。” 当时我真的试图去深入拷问和推敲这个命题。我心里反复琢磨：“真的就只是这样吗？我整个人生这场游戏的胜负，难道首要且最重要的决定因素，真的就只是我如何分配自己的时间吗？” 当然，接下来的问题自然是你在具体投入时间时表现如何、以及你将时间分配给了哪些具体的事物。但在本质上，所有那些我在临终绝笔或临终时刻所能想象到的最宝贵的东西——与未婚妻建立亲密美好的关系、与家人维系深厚温暖的感情、个人取得的成就，甚至包括我能活到几岁才走向生命的终点、我自身的健康状况——这一切的根本源头，完全都是由我分配时间的方式向下游传导而来的。 我究竟把时间花在了什么地方？是投入时间去健身房锻炼身体，还是挥霍在了其他无关紧要的事情上？ 我认为这是一个无比关键且至关重要的观点。因为每当我们谈论节约时间、将时间视为无比珍贵的资源时，总会有人提出反驳说：“哦，这样做太令人焦虑、太紧绷了，给自己设定一个倒计时器让人感觉心理压力巨大。”
Original English **Speaker A**: I read this thing and it said, "The center point of your influence on this planet is the allocation of your time." And I really tried to like interrogate that. I was like, "Is that really it? is like the game of my life really first and foremost how I allocate my time of course then it's like what I you know how well I show up or the things I allocate it to but the essence here everything I described on my death death deathbed having great relationships with my fiance having great relationships with my family achievement um the fact the age that I get to the deathbed my health all of it really is you know downstream from the allocation of my time what do I put my time on going to the gym um or do I put it on something else? And I just think that's a really important point cuz when we talk about saving time and treating time in such a precious way, one of the rebuttals is, "Oh, this is stressful. This is a this is a lot. It feels like a lot of pressure to like set a timer.
**Speaker B**：但是你知道，对我而言，时间确实是唯一的真正货币。我相信对我们所有人来说都同样如此。而且我也觉得，从你所做的工作中我体会到的一点是，人生的过法并没有所谓的绝对好与坏之分，关键在于你是否在有意识地掌控自己的生活——
Original English **Speaker B**: But, you know, time really is the currency for me. I just think I think it is for all of us. And I think as well what I hear from your work is it's not about there being a good and and bad way to live one's life. It's just about being intentional
**Speaker A**：带着明确的意图去使用时间。
Original English **Speaker A**: with the time.
**Speaker B**：是的。
Original English **Speaker B**: Yeah.
### 摆脱无意识漂流：通过凝聚工作夺回生活 **Speaker A**：想想看，在当今这个时代，人们普通平常的一天是多么缺乏自觉与意图。你就像一阵风中的塑料袋一样，被各种琐碎事物推着到处乱撞、随波逐流……无论如何，抱歉，我觉得自己刚才差点脱口引用凯蒂·佩里（Katy Perry）的歌词了。哦，
Original English **Speaker A**: Think about how unintentional the average day is these days cuz you're just pulled around like a plastic bag in the wind by lits. Anyway, sorry. think you were very close, dangerously close to quitting Katy Perry there first. Oh,
**Speaker B**：真的吗？
Original English **Speaker B**: really?
**Speaker A**：我感觉确实是这样，不是吗？感觉自己就像一个漂浮在风中的塑料袋。
Original English **Speaker A**: I think so, isn't it? It's like I'm a plastic bag floating in the wind.
**Speaker B**：这恰恰就是现代世界给人带来的真实感受。
Original English **Speaker B**: That's how it can feel in the modern world.
**Speaker A**：确实如此。不，但这真真切切是大实话。
Original English **Speaker A**: It is true. No, it's true, though.
**Speaker B**：顺便说一句，我们现在探讨的所有这些方法与原则，其根本追求只有一个：那就是让人们重新夺回属于他们自己的宝贵时间。 顺便提一下，我们在日常工作中面临着漫天遍地的各种干扰，这种工作状态——根据“进展原则”（progress principle）的研究——会让人们感到极度痛苦，对吧？他们根本开心不起来，感到很不快乐。人们本能地渴望完成高质量、出色的工作，渴望产生切实的积极影响。人们天生追求这些成就感，因为企业雇佣的本身就是一群极具潜力的优秀人才。而从我们孩提时代起，身边的人就总是在对我们说：“做得太棒了！你拿到了一颗小红星！”我们天生渴望取得进展，我们渴望得到属于自己的那颗金色小星星。 试想一下，如果社会已经训练了整整一代人都渴望拿到那颗金色小红星，而如今你被层层人群和碎片事务所包围，现实却对你说：“嘿，顺便说一句，我知道你有一张长得吓人的待办事项清单，但你今天什么实质性工作都别想做完。相反，你整天唯一能做的就是不停地回复所有这些琐碎消息，参加一个又一个毫无意义的会议和电话沟通。到了下班那一天结束时，你只能眼睁睁看着自己的待办清单原封不动地躺在那里，一天下来几乎没有任何真正推进。” 这种感觉糟糕透顶。因此，人们心里会感到无比沮丧和挫败。而那些原本该完成的重要工作依然堆积如山，最终大家不得不利用下班晚上的时间以及整个周末去加班赶工。这就无情地剥夺了本该陪伴家人的温情时光。到了垂暮之年，躺在临终床上的自己回顾一生，只会痛苦地感慨：“这真是太糟糕、太可悲了。” 所以，计时器的真正意义在于帮助你把那该死的工作高度浓缩压缩。这样你就将工作彻底“游戏化”（gamify）了。你能充分调动体内的多巴胺，调动所有那些让你肾上腺素飙升、全神贯注想要攻克难关的美妙激素，在极短时间内把工作一鼓作气搞定——这样你才能真正有资格：
Original English **Speaker B**: And all of this, by the way, is in pursuit of just giving people more of their own time back. By the way, the way in which we're working with all of these distractions around us, one, according to the progress principle, makes people feel like Like, right, they're not happy. They're not happy. People want to get good, high quality work done. People want to make an impact. They want those things because you're hiring amazing people. And from when we were all little, we were told, "Good job. You got an like we love that progress. We want to get the gold star." So, if we've trained an entire generation of human beings to want to get the gold star and now you're surrounded by all these people and you're like, "Hey, by the way, I know you have this massive to-do list, but you're not going to get anything done. Instead, you just have to like answer all these messages and go to all these meetings and calls and then feel like at the end of the day cuz your to-do list is still there and you didn't make progress on anything." Doesn't feel good. So, people don't feel good about it. And then all that work is still left and then they end up working evenings and weekends to catch up. And that takes time away from your family. And then your deathbed self is like this is terrible. So we're the timer will help you condense the damn work so you gify it. You make use of the dopamine. You make use of all those amazing hormones that get you all excited to get the work done so that you can actually
**Speaker A**：停下来歇一歇，去享受生活，做其他自己想做的事情。
Original English **Speaker A**: take a break and do other things.
**Speaker B**：噢，太好了。说到“停下来休息”这个话题，没错，在最开始的时候你就曾提到过……
Original English **Speaker B**: Oh okay. So on this take a break. Yeah. At the very start you were
### 创新、直觉与“无聊”的修行 **Steven Bartlett**: 我们刚才聊到了创新和创造力。几周前里克·鲁宾（Rick Rubin）就坐在我这里，而且我之前对史蒂夫·乔布斯（Steve Jobs）做了很多研究，试图弄明白他究竟是如何能够预见未来的。因为回顾他的决策过程，总是那么出人意料，在当时看来又是如此反主流。 有一段很经典的视频：乔布斯站在开发者大会上，一位开发者站起来当面斥责他，基本上就是在质问：“你为什么又要这么做？你砍掉了每个开发者都需要的某款软件。”当时乔布斯好像是从设备上彻底去掉了 Flash，以便我们能更好地流式播放视频；他还去掉了手机上的触控笔，砍掉了实体键盘。事后证明他是对的。但我心中的疑问是：他到底是怎么把未来看得如此清晰的？ 里克·鲁宾和乔布斯似乎都有一个共同的习惯，那就是“习惯无聊”（a boredom practice）。作为追求高效率的人，我们通常总是想着不停地工作、工作；但当我研究这些伟大的远见者时，我发现他们竟然都拥有一种“无聊习惯”，让自己从眼前的具体画面中抽身退步。所以当你提到“大脑休息”（brain break）时，我在想：你指的也是这种状态，还是指别的什么？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Talking about innovation and creativity, Rick Rubin was sat here a couple of weeks ago. And I've done a lot of research around Steve Jobs to figure out how he was able to see the future, because I look back at his decision-making and it was always so unexpected and at the time really contrarian. There's a great video of him stood at a developer conference, and the developer stands up and basically berates him and says, "Why are you doing this again? You're removing this particular software that every developer needs." This was Steve Jobs removed, I think it was Flash from our devices so that we could stream video better, removed the stylus from phones, the keyboard. And he was right in hindsight. But my question is: how did he see the future so clearly? Rick Rubin and him seemed to share a practice, which is boredom. So as productivity people, we're always like work, work. But then I study these visionaries and I go, "Oh, they had a boredom practice where they just stood away from the picture." And so when you said "brain break", I was thinking, "Is this what you're talking about, or is it something else?"
**Guest**: 我说的是战术层面的东西。
Original English **Guest**: This is tactical.
**Steven Bartlett**: 好的。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Okay.
### 什么是真正的大脑休息？ **Guest**: 所谓“大脑休息”，定义很简单：就是一小段你不去处理任何信息的时间。这就引出了我对如今大多数人休息方式的严厉抨击。 如今大家从工作中停下来休息，通常是这样想的：“我刚才一直在忙所有这些事情，现在我要歇会儿了。”那么大家最常见的休息方式是什么呢？
Original English **Guest**: Brain break is just defined as a short period of time where you're not processing information. And this brings me to really attacking how most humans seem to be taking breaks these days. People will take a break from work and they'll be like, "I was just doing all these things, and I'm going to take a break." And what is the most common way to take a break?
**Steven Bartlett**: 找人聊聊天，或者找点别的消遣、做点别的事情。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Take a talk or something, some other distraction.
**Guest**: 换做别的事。顺便提一下，2024 年《自然》（Nature）期刊刚发表了一篇论文，研究人员在受试者开始工作之前，实际测量了每个人的疲劳程度。接着让他们去工作——大致就相当于进行一次高强度专注冲刺（focus sprint）。在这段时间里，你全神贯注地做各种工作；工作结束后，他们再次测量受试者的疲劳程度。 随后研究人员表示：“好了，既然你已经工作完了，现在请暂停一下，去休息吧。”他们把受试者分成了四个不同的小组： 其中一组完全不休息，直接继续硬撑着干下去。
Original English **Guest**: Some other thing. By the way, there was a 2024 Nature paper that just came out that actually measured everybody's fatigue levels before they started working. Then they would have them work. So essentially, let's imagine do a focus sprint. So you're focused and doing all this work, and then they measure their fatigue levels after they're working. And then they're like, "Okay, now we're going to pause now that you've worked, and you're going to take a break." They put them into four different groups. One of those groups was no break at all. So you just keep going.
**Steven Bartlett**: 然后再次测量他们的疲劳程度。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: And then you measured fatigue levels again.
**Guest**: 结果显而易见，不休息当然非常糟糕，对吧？你的疲劳感根本无法得到真正的恢复。 但其他几组的休息方式分别是：刷 TikTok 这类短视频、注视大自然、或者单纯放空目视前方。结果证明，效果最好的休息方式果不其然是接触大自然。人类本就源于自然，我们天生就对大自然有一种亲和力。
Original English **Guest**: And lo and behold, of course, no break is not great, right? You're not going to really rebound from being fatigued. But the other options were TikTok-style scrolling, looking at nature, or just staring ahead of yourself. It turns out the best kind of break is, in fact—no surprise there—being exposed to nature. Humans come from nature, have a sense we might have a affinity for it.
**Steven Bartlett**: 哪怕有时候我们觉得自己并非如此，觉得自己是彻底的都市人群。但当人类置身于大自然中时，内心深处确实会涌起一种真切的平静感。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Even if it feels like sometimes we don't, we're city folk. There is a visceral calm that comes when humans spend time in nature.
**Guest**: 所以接触自然是最好的休息方式。紧随其后的第二好方式，就是什么都不做、纯粹放空。 而最糟糕的休息方式，正是刷短视频。因为你只是在被动吸收更多的信息，这根本就不是让大脑休息！你的大脑实际上完全没有得到一丝一毫的放松。 你平时健身举重吗？
Original English **Guest**: So that's the best kind of break. But shortly thereafter, it's just doing nothing at all. And the worst break was TikTok-style scrolling. You were just consuming more information. That's not a brain break. Your brain is not in fact taking a break at all. Do you weightlift?
**Steven Bartlett**: 有时会练练，对。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Sometimes. Yeah.
**Guest**: 有时会练，对吧？那好，假设你正在举铁——我拿这个积木块来打个比方，假设这个东西非常重，我正使劲把它举起来。 我一边举，肌肉一边在高负荷运作。那么当我们练完一组举重之后，我们通常会做什么？
Original English **Guest**: Sometimes. Okay. So, if you're lifting a weight here—I'm going to pick up this like block for a second. Let's say this is heavy and I'm picking up this weight. Okay.
**Steven Bartlett**: 会休息。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Rest.
### 刷手机不是休息，而是换了轻量哑铃 **Guest**: 你会停下来休息。但如果在组间休息时，我并没有真正休息，而是拿起一副比较轻的哑铃继续举，你会怎么说？我依然在用力，这根本就不叫休息。 刷手机的本质就是如此。而且顺便说一句，不仅是刷短视频算不上休息——我不希望大家误以为：“哦，那我看看新闻总行了吧？”只要你在阅读，你就依然在消耗大脑。这绝不是给这块肌肉放假，你依然在调用运转它。无论是阅读、写作还是算术，大脑都在负荷运转。而休息的核心目的是让这台机器彻底停转歇息。
Original English **Guest**: You rest. What would you say if in between, instead of actually resting, I start lifting like low-grade weights? This is not a rest. So that's what scrolling is. And it's not even just scrolling, by the way. And I don't want people thinking like, "Oh, I was reading the news." You're reading. That's not resting this muscle. You're still using this thing. Reading, writing, arithmetic. Like the point is to rest this thing.
**Steven Bartlett**: 那具体该怎么做呢？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: How?
**Guest**: 什么都别做。
Original English **Guest**: Do nothing at all.
**Steven Bartlett**: 我几乎都不知道该怎么“什么都不做”了。我会想：“那到底是个什么状态？我脑子里想到的任何一件事，全都是要去做的一项任务。”
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: I almost don't know how to do nothing. I'm like, "What does that look like? Everything I thought of was a thing."
**Guest**: 没错。刚开始确实很难。不过关于这点，我给你出个主意。
Original English **Guest**: Yeah. It's hard in the beginning. But I will say this: I have an idea for you.
**Steven Bartlett**: 好，你说。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Okay.
### 用双手构建物理阻隔系统 **Guest**: 这个办法就是：去做一件具有一定认知挑战性的事情，其挑战程度恰好能让你无法再去胡思乱想其他的忧虑和琐事。这就是我衡量高质量休息的标准。
Original English **Guest**: And that is to do something that is cognitively challenging enough such that you can't think of all of your other worries and things. This is my barometer for a really high quality break.
**Steven Bartlett**: 比如我打 DJ？我平时会打 DJ，我正在学 DJ。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: My DJing. What about my—I DJ? I'm learning to DJ.
**Guest**: 真的吗？
Original English **Guest**: Are you really?
**Steven Bartlett**: 所以外面才摆着所有的打碟机，外面大概摆着四台打碟机呢。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: That's why all the decks are out there. There's like four decks out there.
**Guest**: 我之前都没注意到。
Original English **Guest**: I didn't notice.
**Steven Bartlett**: 我已经学了四年了。所以那就是我的休息方式。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: I've been learning for four years. So it's, you know, my break.
**Guest**: 太棒了，这是一项非常了不起的技能。因为你正在学习它，所以它具有很强的沉浸感。
Original English **Guest**: Awesome skill. Awesome skill. And you're learning, so it's immersive.
**Steven Bartlett**: 我完全沉浸在里面。因为一首歌快要放完了，我必须接着混下一首，除了做眼前这个播客采访，那是我全天精力最集中的时刻。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: I'm totally focused because the song's about to end and I have to mix it. And it's the most locked in I am all day other than this.
**Guest**: 没错。但即便只是做一个简单的短暂大脑休息，我由衷的建议是：为了避免自己忍不住去刷手机、看新闻、刷 LinkedIn 或干别的任何事情—— 去用你的双手做点实在的事情。我非常坚信系统的力量，我们必须要靠机制和系统。我不相信靠意志力，比如心里想着“哎呀，我真该那么做”、“我理应这么做”。如果光靠意志力，那实在太难了。但如果你建立起一套系统—— 我所说的系统是指：别再在家里备那些拿起来就能直接吃的现成即食零食了。逼着自己动手去做点东西吃。
Original English **Guest**: Yeah. So, even for like a simple brain break though, my humble recommendation to get yourself to not like scroll, check the news, get on LinkedIn, like whatever else it may be: do something with your hands. So, I'm a firm believer in systems. We just need systems. I don't like willpower like, "Oh, I should really do that. I ought to do that." Like it's really difficult. If you create systems—and what I mean by that is don't have grab-and-go snacks anymore. Force yourself to make things.
**Steven Bartlett**: 没错，太对了。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Yeah. Exactly.
**Guest**: 而且并不需要是正儿八经的大费周章做饭。毕竟你人还在工作日的上班过程中。我的意思是，不要去吃那种单个独立包装的小奶酪，而是买一大块原装奶酪，从保鲜袋里拿出来，拿出刀切下一片：“看，我自己切了一片奶酪。” 也不要直接按胶囊咖啡机。例如去接水、把水壶放上去烧水，做这些需要步骤的事情。把自己置于一套必须双手并用的流程机制中，无论是补充水分、摄入咖啡因还是弄点小点心，让你无法在做这些事情的同时一只手拿着手机刷屏幕。 就是这么简单。让大脑休息的一个简单方法就是补充水分、吃点点心。当然，最理想的做法其实是让自己接触一下自然光线，呼吸一下新鲜空气，活动活动身子，出去散散步。但我知道这些往往说起来容易做起来难。所以退一步讲，我猜大家至少有我一半那么嘴馋吧？我自己就很喜欢吃很多小零食。 在谈到如何激发绝妙的创新与最具创造力的想法时，关于这一点，还有什么要补充的吗？
Original English **Guest**: And it doesn't have to be cooking. Like again, you're in the middle of the workday. My point is instead of like one of those tiny little cheeses that come prepackaged, like get the big hunk and take it out of the ziploc and like cut it and like, "Oh, I've cut myself a piece of cheese." Instead of having the pods, for example, like boil some water, put the kettle on, then do the thing. Put yourself in a system where you're forced to use both of your hands in order to get yourself hydrated, caffeinated, or get yourself a snack so that you can't scroll and do the thing at the same time. So that's it. Like an easy way to take a brain break is just rehydrate, have another snack. Ideally, honestly, go expose yourself to some natural light, get some fresh air, move, go on a little walk. But I know those are easier said than done often. So, at the very least, I assume people are maybe even at least 50% as hungry as I am. So, I love lots of snacks. Is there anything else on this point of, you know, when you're thinking about how to have your great, innovative, most creative ideas?
### 问题状态与解决状态的神经断联 **Steven Bartlett**: 如果我想解决一个极其复杂的问题，想出自己最棒的点子，你还有其他建议吗？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: If I wanted to solve a very complex problem, come up with my best ideas, is there anything else you'd recommend?
**Guest**: 创新与创造性洞见的底层科学逻辑，首先在于真正理解并思考该问题的过程。这意味着把与你要解决的问题相关的所有数据和信息全部装载进大脑中。它必须占据你的注意力前端，也就是说，调动那些与思考该问题相关的大脑神经网络。 不管你试图解决的是什么难题，你都要让负责该问题的神经网络被彻底激活并置于顶层意识中。 这里有一句我最喜欢的名言，通常被归在阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦（Albert Einstein）名下——不过谁知道他到底说没说过呢？反正太多名言都被挂到他名下了，毕竟谁会真的去事实核查对吧？但这句名言说得很好：“没有任何问题能够用产生该问题时的同等意识水平或思维方式来解决。” 因此，当你坐在那里冥思苦想一个问题时，我的理解是，这就像是遇到了交通大瘫痪一样。你坐在那里琢磨：“行吧，这个、那个，还有那个……”你不知道答案。我所说的“死锁阻塞”，就是指你无法立刻想到解决方案。 事实上，当你陷在对问题的苦思冥想中时，大脑所处的状态正是所谓的“问题脑态”（problem state）。定义为 X 的脑态，就是你——史蒂文——此刻正在苦思冥想该问题时的大脑状态。这难道是“解决状态”吗？不是。根据定义，这纯粹就是“问题状态”。 所以，你被困在了思考特定问题的某些神经网络交通死锁中。而接下来的下一步：就是走开。 果断抽身走开，去干点别的事情。去把那该死的狗遛了！
Original English **Guest**: The science behind innovation and creative insight is the process of truly understanding and thinking about the problem. So loading up all of the data related to the problem that you're trying to solve, it should be top of mind, meaning those neural networks that are related to—yeah, the neural networks related to thinking about the problem. Okay? Whatever problem it is that you're trying to solve, you want those activated and top of mind. Now, this is one of my favorite quotes attributed, I think, to Albert Einstein. Who knows if he actually said it, though. So many quotes are attributed to him. Who's fact-checking, right? But "No problem can be solved by the same level of consciousness or the same mindset that created it." So when you're sitting there and you're thinking about a problem, I kind of think about this like a traffic gridlock like this, right? You're sitting there and you're going, "Well, okay, this, this, and this." And by gridlock I mean you don't know the solution immediately. In fact, you're thinking about the problem. There lies the brain state of the problem defined as this, defined as X. Brain state is the brain state where you, Steven, are thinking about the problem. Is this the solution state? No. By definition this is the problem state. So there you are in a gridlock of certain neural networks where you're thinking about the problem. The next step: walk away. Walk away and go do something else. Walk the damn dog.
**Guest**: 去干点别的事，去把碗洗了。你在引入另一种外部刺激，对吧？去洗个淋浴，引入新的刺激、新的环境。这些神经……
Original English **Guest**: Go do something else. Wash the dishes. You're introducing another stimulus here, right? Shower, new stimulus, new environment. These neural...
### 神经回路与灵感的诞生 **Speaker B**: 神经网络开始放松，新的神经网络正在被激活。新的电信号——它们本质上都是电化学神经网络——正陆续被激活。突然之间，这可能会让某一个想法将这一切贯通起来。想法就像两条正在交汇的神经网络路径，然后你会进入……
Original English **Speaker B**: Networks begin to loosen. New neural networks are becoming activated. New electrical, they're all electrical neural networks are getting activated. And all of a sudden, that might allow one idea to all of it. Ideas are like two neural networks that are crossing paths. And you go
**Speaker B**: 进入我们一直在寻找的那个灵感灯泡之中。接着奇迹就会降临，你会恍然大悟：“等等，原来它就在那里！它一直就在我眼前，就在我的眼皮底下。”所以，那种惊人的深刻洞见，通常都发生在你彻底放松并抽身离开的时候。
Original English **Speaker B**: inside the light bulb that we're all searching for. And then you get that magic and you go, "Wait a minute. That's there. It was right in front of me the whole time. Right under my nose." So you have those amazing insights typically when you loosen and you walk away.
### 消极思维与反刍的神经机制 **Speaker A**: 这对消极思维也适用吗？
Original English **Speaker A**: Does this apply to negative thinking?
**Speaker B**: 是的。
Original English **Speaker B**: Yeah.
**Speaker A**: 以及反刍思维。
Original English **Speaker A**: And rumination.
**Speaker B**: 消极思维和反刍思维。对此我有非常多的看法……
Original English **Speaker B**: Negative thinking and rumination. I have loads and loads of opinions about
**Speaker A**: 你刚才为什么翻白眼？
Original English **Speaker A**: Why did you roll your eyes then?
**Speaker B**: 我翻白眼是因为……
Original English **Speaker B**: I rolled my eyes because
**Speaker A**: 人们不喜欢听这些看法。
Original English **Speaker A**: people don't like them.
**Speaker B**: 不，不是因为那个。而是……我发现在现代社会中，我们把自己陷入了一种困境：我们默认去不断重提、详尽地谈论和反复思考我们遭遇的创伤是完全合理的。但事实上，当你那样做的时候，你只是在不断加深那该死的神经网络。
Original English **Speaker B**: No, it's not that. It's I find that in the modern world, we've gotten ourselves into a bit of a pickle where we've made it okay to continue to rehash and exhaustively talk about and think about our traumas. Well, when you do that, you're just deepening the damn neural networks.
**Speaker A**: 真的吗？
Original English **Speaker A**: Really?
**Speaker B**: 是的。我的意思是，你想想看。比如如果你对某件事感到悲伤，我并不是说不要去承认你的感受；在感受完你的情绪之后，如果你的目标是——举个例子，假设你让自己陷入了对某件事的反刍泥潭之中……
Original English **Speaker B**: Yeah. I mean, think about it. You're like, if I'm sad about something, I'm not saying don't acknowledge your feelings, but after feel your feelings, but if the goal is, let's say, for example, you've gotten into yourself into a rut of rumination about something
### 打破反刍循环与重塑注意力 **Speaker B**: 或者是担忧。反刍思维就是同样的想法一遍、一遍、又一遍地反复出现。唯一的出路就是打破这个循环。你不可能通过用完全相同的方式一遍又一遍地不停倾诉，来让你正在反刍的那些感受和思绪自行消失。如果你一直这样做，你只是在让那条神经网络变得越来越深，让它变得更加坚固、更加强大。如果你反复这样——刚才你提到了《原子习惯》，想想习惯是如何形成的吧，正是通过那种重复。所以，如果你不断对自己说：“哦，我遭遇了这场创伤，这件事情发生在我身上，我是一个受害者，接着我又成了受害者，然后我经历了这场创伤、那场创伤，这就是为什么我会变成现在这个样子。我现在就是这个样子。我就是这样的人……”
Original English **Speaker B**: or worry. Rumination is sort of the same thought over and over and over again. The only way out is to break the cycle. You do not make your feelings and you know the thoughts that you end up ruminating on go away by talking about them over and over and over again in the exact same way. If you keep doing that you're just deepening and deepening that neural network. So it's even more robust and strong. If you repeatedly I mean you were mentioned atomic habits. I mean think about how habits are formed right that repetition. So if you keep telling yourself, oh this trauma happened for me, this occurred and I was a victim and then I was a victim and then I was this trauma, this trauma and then that's why I am this way that I am. I am this way that I am. I am this way that
**Speaker A**: 在某个时刻，它可能就会变成你的一种身份认同。
Original English **Speaker A**: some point it might become your identity
**Speaker B**: 转变会非常迅速，对吧？所以唯一的出路就是停止它，你必须重新转移自己的注意力。因此，我对反刍这类问题的解决之道是：首先承认它最初为什么会发生，然后在这之后，一旦它开始发作，就要非常迅速地转移你的注意力。这就像是一种机制——每当你意识到“糟糕，它又开始了”，立刻转移注意力，把它放到别的地方。你的“珠峰目标”是什么？这个故事有没有其他不同视角的版本？你真正想要喂养的叙事是什么？因为这个电子神经系统——你可以把自己想象成它的园丁或是建筑师，你正在亲自设计它。它就像任何其他肌肉一样。这就好比有人整天干坐着抱怨：“哎呀，我真不喜欢我右侧二头肌比左侧稍大一点的事实”，那就为此做点实际改变啊！你可以让这一块肌肉稍微萎缩一点，增加另一块肌肉所承受的负荷，瞧，你就会收获截然不同的结果。所以，如果你从神经科学的角度把心智乃至真正的大脑看作不同的神经网络，你正在通过你的想法、你的时间、你的注意力去不断加深、强化并喂养它们——请务必留心你到底在喂养哪一个网络，因为无论你喂养哪一个，它都会变得愈发强大、声音愈发响亮。
Original English **Speaker B**: pretty quickly, huh? So the only way out is to stop that. You have to redirect your attention. So my solve for things like rumination is acknowledge why it's happening in the first place and then quite quickly after that redirect your attention when it's happening. It's sort of a anytime you you you're in that oh it's starting again redirect and then put your attention somewhere else. What's your Everest? What's a different version of the story? What's the narrative that you want to feed? Cuz again this electrical system is it's think of yourself as the gardener or the architect of this thing. You're designing it. It's a muscle like anything else. It's like someone sitting around and going, "Well, I don't love the fact that my right bicep is slightly larger than do something about it." You know, you can atrophy this one a little bit and and and increase the weight that you that you that you hold the load on this one and lo and behold, you'll get a different outcome. So if you think of the mind and the and truly the brain from a neural perspective as different neural networks that you're either deepening, strengthening, and feeding, feeding with your thoughts, your time, your attention, be careful which ones you feed because whichever one you feed will in fact become stronger and louder.
### 目标拆解与 1% 日志插播 **Speaker A**: 这是我专门为大家制作的东西。我意识到收看《Diary of a CEO》的观众都是全力以赴的奋斗者。无论是在商业领域还是在个人健康方面，我们每个人都有渴望实现的宏伟目标。而我所学到的一件事是，当你直接盯向那个极其庞大的目标时，心理上会感到无比难受和焦虑，因为这就像是站在珠穆朗玛峰脚下仰望峰顶一样。实现目标的真正方法是将其拆解为极其微小的细部步骤。在我们的团队中，我们将此称为“1%法则”。事实上，这一理念正是我们在本节目中取得巨大成功的关键所在。因此，为了让在屏幕前收看的各位也能实现心中的任何宏伟目标，我们制作了这些“1% 日记”。去年推出时它们全部售罄了。所以我一再要求团队把这些日记重新带回来，同时也推出了一些全新的配色，并对日记进行了一些微调。现在我们为大家准备了更丰富的选择。因此，如果你心中有一个大目标，需要一套框架、一套流程以及持续的动力，我强烈建议你在它们再次售罄之前抢购一本。你可以在 thediary.com 购买属于你的那一本。如果你需要链接，就在下方的简介栏中。下方应该还有一个按钮，如果上面显示的是“Subscribed”（已订阅），说明你已经订阅了；如果显示的是“Subscribe”（订阅），说明你还没有。如果你尚未订阅，能否帮我们一个忙，点击一下那个按钮？这对我们节目的支持超乎你的想象。算法显示你经常观看我们的节目，但还没有点击订阅按钮。非常感谢大家。
Original English **Speaker A**: This is something that I've made for you. I realize that the divers here audience are strivvers. Whether it's in business or health, we all have big goals that we want to accomplish. And one of the things I've learned is that when you aim at the big big big goal, it can feel incredibly psychologically uncomfortable because it's kind of like being stood at the foot of Mount Everest and looking upwards. The way to accomplish your goals is by breaking them down into tiny small steps. And we call this in our team the 1%. And actually this philosophy is highly responsible for much of our success here. So, what we've done so that you at home can accomplish any big goal that you have is we've made these 1% diaries and we released these last year and they all sold out. So, I asked my team over and over again to bring the diaries back, but also to introduce some new colors and to make some minor tweaks to the diary. So, now we have a better range for you. So, if you have a big goal in mind and you need a framework and a process and some motivation, then I highly recommend you get one of these diaries before they all sell out once again. And you can get yours at the diary.com. And if you want the link, the link is in the description below. There should be a button just down below here. And if it says subscribed, you're already subscribed. If it says subscriber, that means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please could you do us a favor and hit that button? It helps the show more than you know. And according to the algorithm, you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button. Thank you so much.
### 时间的科学：专注冲刺与生物钟类型 **Speaker A**: 我看到你的生产力工具包里……
Original English **Speaker A**: I can see in your productivity toolkit,
**Speaker B**: 对。
Original English **Speaker B**: yeah,
**Speaker A**: 有一个时钟。
Original English **Speaker A**: there is a clock.
**Speaker A**: 为什么会有一个时钟？
Original English **Speaker A**: Why is there a clock?
**Speaker B**: 那个时钟代表着“选择何时行动”的力量与科学机制。让我为你解释一下：如果说我们之前讨论过的“最重要的任务”（MIT）和“低影响力琐事”（LIT）代表着“做什么”——我有我的珠峰目标，我有我的核心任务，那么今天我要做什么来逐步逼近我的珠峰目标？那是“做什么”。今天在你说你拥有的那 3 个小时不被打扰的专注时间里，我究竟要做什么……
Original English **Speaker B**: Uh, the clock represents the power and the science of when, let me explain. If we said that the MITs and the LITs that we talked about before, that represents the what I have my Everest, I have my MITs. Now, what am I doing today to move incrementally closer to meeting my Everest goal? That's the what. What am I doing today with the 3 hours of uninterrupted focus time that you said that you had,
**Speaker B**: 对吧？而“专注冲刺”代表的是“怎么做”。我该如何去攻克那项最重要的任务，或者那一堆琐碎杂务？我该怎么执行？如果你想让时间产出翻倍并把犯错次数降到最低，你就需要采用专注冲刺的方法论。这就是“怎么做”。而关于生物钟类型的科学，则会告诉你“何时做”的科学——你究竟应该在什么时候去执行所有这些不同的事情。人类并不是共享同一套昼夜节律的。
Original English **Speaker B**: right? What focus sprints are the how. How am I going to then go attack that one MIT or that litter of lit? How am I going to go do it? You're going to do it in the methodology of a focus sprint if you want to 2x your time and minimize the number of mistakes made. That's the how. The science of chronotypes will tell you the science of when when should you go about doing all of these different things. Human beings do not share one circadian rhythm.
**Speaker A**: 那是什么意思？
Original English **Speaker A**: What does that mean?
**Speaker B**: 你之前听说过昼夜节律吗？
Original English **Speaker B**: Well, have you heard of a circadian rhythm before? They have
**Speaker B**: 我们都有昼夜节律，动物也有。但我们作为一个人类物种，彼此之间并没有共享完全一致的节律。这意味着我们并不会在同一时间入睡；虽然我们都是追随光线的生物，但对于我们入睡和醒来的最理想时间，大家并不共享完全相同的节律。
Original English **Speaker B**: okay so we all we have circadian rhythms animals do as well but we don't share one as a human species meaning we don't all go to sleep around the same time we're not all creature we are creatures of light but we don't all share one rhythm of exactly the ideal time that we would go to sleep and wake up
### 早起型人格与生物钟机理 **Speaker B**: 这些不同的昼夜节律实际上被称为“生物钟类型”（Chronotypes）。你的生物钟类型就是你在遗传学和生物学意义上的理想作息时间。它本质上描绘了你体内荷尔蒙以及全天精力水平变化的档案。生物钟类型主要有三种：首先是早起型（AM-shifted）人群。从本质上讲，这就是“早起鸟”背后的科学原理。
Original English **Speaker B**: these different circadian rhythms are in fact called chronotypes so your chronoype is your genetic biological ideal time. It's essentially a profile of the hormones uh and your energy levels throughout the course of the day. And there are three chronotypes. There's AM shifted individuals. These are essentially this is like the science behind morning birds.
**Speaker A**: 明白了，也就是那些喜欢一大早做事的人。
Original English **Speaker A**: Okay. So people that like doing stuff early.
**Speaker B**: 是的。
Original English **Speaker B**: Yeah.
**Speaker A**: 好的。
Original English **Speaker A**: Okay.
**Speaker B**: 这再次证明了它是基因和荷尔蒙决定的。这些人体内的皮质醇水平天然会在清晨非常非常早的时候飙升。有些人是凌晨 4 点起床的人，有些人是 5 点起床的人，还有些人是 6 点起床的人。他们在生物学上天然就是清晨偏好型的，这根本不一定是他们的错。顺便说一句，你怎么才能确信自己真的是早起型人呢？检验你是否真正属于早起型的方法是：即使我让你熬夜到凌晨 2 点才睡；而且假设我在严格控制外部环境，你身边没有会把你吵醒的小孩，你不需要参加任何会议，没有任何干扰；我把你安置在世界上最好的酒店里，配有最舒适的大床，房间完全遮光防风，安静得掉下一根针都能听见，没有任何外在因素会吵醒你，你想睡多久就可以睡多久；而我让你熬到了凌晨 2 点——噢，你根本不用担心，你的脑下垂体非常强大，你的身体在清晨 5 点的时候自然心知肚明。它甚至不需要看见光线，就会自然而然地唤醒你。于是你陷入了睡眠剥夺的状态，但你别无选择。那些无论前一天晚上几点入睡、第二天清晨都很自然早早醒来的人，他们就是典型的早起型人群，这一切全部……
Original English **Speaker B**: And it's again it's it's genetic and it's hormonal. These individuals naturally their cortisol levels spike really really early in the morning. And some people are like the 4:00 in the morning people. They're the 5:00 in the morning people, 6:00 in the morning people. They are naturally A.M. shifted. Like, it's not their fault necessarily. It's And by the way, how do you know that you're truly AM shifted? How you know you're truly AM shifted is if you go to bed at even if I keep you up at 2:00 in the morning until 2:00 in the morning. And let's say I'm controlling you no longer have young children that are going to wake you up. You no longer have any meetings, nothing at all. I've put you in this the best hotel in the world with the most comfortable bed fully blackout. Not you can't you can hear a pin drop. There's nothing that would otherwise wake you and you can sleep as long as you want. And I kept you up until 2:00 in the morning. Oh, don't you worry. That pituitary gland is very strong. Your body knows when it's 5:00 in the morning. It doesn't even need to see light. It naturally will wake you up. So now you're sleepd deprived, but you have no choice. So those people that naturally wake up at early hours of the day regardless of when they went to bed the night before. Those are AM shifted individuals and it's all
### 早型人与夜猫子：生物钟的人口学与演化意义 **神经科学家**：关于他们早晨刚醒时的皮质醇水平。顺便说一下，这类人群大约占整个人类的25%。他们并不是大多数。但我个人的浅见是，整个世界似乎都是围绕着这群人来运转的。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: about their cortisol levels first thing in the morning. That is about, by the way, 25% of the human population. It's not the majority. My humble opinion is the world seems to be oriented around these people,
**主持人**：对吧？俗话说“早起的鸟儿有虫吃”。
Original English **Host**: right? Early bird gets the worm.
**神经科学家**：是的。我是说，什么事情都很早开始——学校过去都是早上9点上课，所以你必须在7点就起床。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Yeah. I mean, everything starts school started at 9:00 a.m., so you had to be up at 7:00.
**主持人**：这也是为什么——或者说是其中一部分原因，当然原因有很多，但这是我当年极其讨厌上学的重要原因之一。
Original English **Host**: That's why I part of the reason, many reasons, but that's part of the reason I hated school so much.
**神经科学家**：噢，完全理解。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Oh, totally.
**主持人**：我那时候特别喜欢熬夜。
Original English **Host**: I liked staying up really late. same.
**神经科学家**：我也是。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Yeah.
**神经科学家**：那你很可能跟我一样，属于人类中的少数群体——夜型人（PM-shifted），也就是作息后移的人。顺便提一下，从人类学角度来看，我们推测像你我这样的人之所以能够存在，唯一的解释就在于演化需求；因为从其他角度来看，这种作息在某种程度上其实是不利的。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Then you are likely the minority of the human population like me. PM shifted. PM shifted people. Anthropologically, by the way, the only reason we imagine why people like you and me exist because otherwise, by the way, it's somewhat dysfunctional. No,
**主持人**：确实不利。要是大家睡眠时间表各不相同，确实会感觉有点奇怪。但是……
Original English **Host**: otherwise. Yeah. It would be strange to have different sleep schedules and stuff like that. But
**神经科学家**：我们又没有夜视能力，在漆黑一片的环境里根本看不清东西。所以整夜醒着从生理上讲确实有些不适应。但你可以换个角度来思考：如果你和我生活在同一个原始部落里，加上我的团队和你的团队，我们共同组成了一个村落。如果所有人都选择在晚上10点睡觉、早上6点起床，那么万一在深更半夜，敌对部落突然杀过来要将我们赶尽杀绝，会发生什么？
Original English **Neuroscientist**: like we're not I'm like I'm not a I can't like see in the dark. Like it's somewhat dysfunctional that we're awake all night. But think about it this way. If you and I were in the same tribe along with my team and your team and we're all like, "Okay, we're we're a village now together and everybody went to bed at 10:00 p.m. and woke up at 6:00 a.m., what would happen in the middle of the night when a competing tribe comes to slaughter all of us?"
**主持人**：没错。黑夜对任何人而言都是最危险的时段，不是吗？所以你必须得有一部分人保持清醒，甚至到了清晨，你也需要有人能提早接应……
Original English **Host**: Yeah. The night is like the most dangerous time, isn't it, for for anybody? So, you need some people that are awake and then even in the morning, you need some people that are
**神经科学家**：嗯。所以在部落社会中，你确实需要错开不同人群的高效机能时段，这在演化机制上是完全站得住脚的。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Mhm. So you do need to stagger in a tribe, stagger the time in which people are highly functional, which makes evolutionary sense.
**主持人**：你需要一支全天候24小时无休的轮岗守卫队。
Original English **Host**: You need a 24/7 team.
### 三种睡眠时型：了解自己的认知峰值与生理节律 **神经科学家**：你必须确保随时都有人醒着。因此，你和我属于整个人类群体中极小的一部分。根据我们实验室的研究，结合在全球范围内收集的数据，我们这类型的人大约占16%。也就是说，人类中有16%属于夜型人（PM-shifted），这意味着我们在基因上往往能够熬到很晚，也能够睡得很迟；而且我们的能量水平是随着时间推移逐渐攀升的，而不像早型人那样一大早骤然飙升，然后随着一天的推移线性下降。早型人通常表现极佳，他们在清晨刚开始的时候注意力最集中、思维最敏捷，但随着时间推移，他们似乎就慢慢耗尽了精力，基本上不会再有“第二波精力”（second wind）。比如在我的实验室里进行标准化测试——也就是超人潜能评估，全面测试你的智力、注意力广度、记忆力等等——你会把这项测试安排在什么时间？
Original English **Neuroscientist**: You need to make sure someone's always awake. So you and I belong to a tiny subset of the human population. According to research from uh uh my lab, it's we're at about 16% from what we've gathered around the world. So 16% of the human population is P.M. shifted, meaning genetically we tend to be able to stay up quite late and we can sleep in and our energy levels rise as opposed to shoot up early in the morning and then linearly decrease as the day progresses. AM shifted people usually are the best. They do their best focus, their best thinking straight away early in the day and they just seem to lose steam as the day progresses. Like there's no like second wind for them really. I mean, but like when you take a standardized test in my lab, the becoming superhum like let's test your intelligence, your attention span, memory, all of it. When would you schedule that test?
**主持人**：对于早型人来说，他们会问：“你早上7点有空吗，对吧？”因为他们在早晨状态最好。而对于像你我这样的夜型人，平心而论，肯定是安排在下午。
Original English **Host**: For AM shifted people, they're like, "Are you free at 7, right?" Cuz they they're the best in the morning. For PM shifted people like you and I, honestly, the afternoon.
**神经科学家**：没错。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Yeah.
**主持人**：在我更年轻的时候，天哪，绝对得是晚上。我做最棒的工作通常都是在晚上9点以后。
Original English **Host**: Uh in my younger years, oh my gosh, the evening. I do my best work like 900 p.m. on.
**神经科学家**：那是我思维最清晰、精力最充沛、头脑最清醒的时候，一直持续到凌晨的深夜时分。虽然这种作息在现代社会不是特别实用，但它是写在基因里的，而且你完全可以加以利用。顺便说一句，夜型人通常也更有艺术天分和创造力。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: It's the my clearest thinking, the most energized, the most clear-headed, you know, up until the the wee hours in the morning. But it's it's not super functional, but it's it's genetic and and you can make use of it. Um, PM shifted people are also have a tendency to be the most artistic and creative.
**主持人**：哈哈，说得太对了！
Original English **Host**: Yeah, there you go.
**神经科学家**：再说一遍。看着镜头，把那句话再说一遍。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Say that again. Look at the camera and say that again.
**主持人**：“最具艺术天分和创造力。”不过我好像并没遗传到这些优点，管他呢。
Original English **Host**: Most artistic and creative. I did not seem to get those. Whatever.
**神经科学家**：然后，还有占人类绝大多数的人群，他们属于双峰型人（biphasic）。在拉丁语中，“biphasic”代表双相或两个峰值。这些人在早晨醒来时会稍微有点昏昏沉沉，但在大约45分钟到1小时之内，他们就会迅速进入状态，像奔跑的赛马一样感觉精力充沛。双峰型意味着有两个活跃阶段或两个高峰。所以他们在上午会出现一次能量高峰；随后相比于其他两种时型，他们会经历一天中最严重的午后精力骤降；接着，如果应对得当，他们会在傍晚迎来第二波精力爆发。这就是三种主要的睡眠时型。我个人的建议是，你应该搞清楚自己到底属于哪一种，因为这将决定你进行深度专注冲刺的理想时间节点。 我本质上就是一堆由血液、内脏和化学物质构成的有机体，我不是机器，对吧？人体是受生物学规律支配的，比如我在早上8点、下午2点和晚上8点的状态完全不一样。在不同时间段，我是拥有不同能力和技能的不同版本的自我，而且我的注意力广度也绝不是一成不变的常数。这是我希望大家能多了解一点、多接纳一点的另一条规律——我们应该认识并坦然接纳我们在一天之中的认知能力存在客观波动，这意味着我们在什么时候做什么事情至关重要，至少在一定程度上是这样。我并不是说我们能完全随心所欲地规划每一天，因为作为夜型人，你和我就是最鲜活的例子——整个世界根本不在乎我们，因为这个世界是以早型人为主导的，我们不得不做出巨大的妥协。我总不能厚着脸皮随随便便找人约会谈：“嘿，今晚10点你有空碰一下吗？”对吧？
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Um then you have the vast majority of the human population and those are people who are bifphasic. Bifphasic stands for the Latin two phases or two peaks. And these individuals wake up a little groggy but within about 45 minutes to an hour they're ramped off to the races. They're feeling great. Bifphasic two phases or two peaks. So they peak once in the morning. They come down for the biggest afternoon dip comparatively to all those three types. and then they um will then come back up for a second wind if they play their cards right. So those are the three corona types. My humble opinion is you should know which one you are because it will dictate the ideal time you should be doing your focus sprints when when is the ideal time. I am a big bag of blood, guts, and chemicals. I'm not a machine, right? I there are biological laws like I'm not the same at 8:00 a.m. versus 2 p.m. versus 8:00 p.m. I am a different version of self with different abilities and skills and my attention span is not a constant. That's another a law that I would love people to know a bit more and accept. I should say to know and accept our cognitive abilities are different throughout the course of the day which means when we do certain things does matter at least in some small part and I'm not suggesting we can architect our days because you I mean you and I are actually prime examples of this as PM shifted people you know the world doesn't give a about us the world doesn't care like as in the world is more AM shifted we have to do a great deal of adjustment. It's not like I can schedule meetings with people like brazenly at like, "Hey, what are you doing at 10:00 tonight?" Right?
**主持人**：确实如此。我今天早上专门为了一个非常重要的会议在7点就硬爬起来开会。因为我人在洛杉矶，我不得不迁就其他人的时间安排。我真不知道该怎么形容——我当时的感觉就是：“天哪，在这么重要的一场会议上，我展现出来的状态简直糟透了。”我勉强扭曲自己的作息去配合它，但事后回想起来，恰恰因为它极其重要，我本应该竭尽所能把它推迟到最晚的时间。
Original English **Host**: It's so I woke up this morning and did a 7 a.m. meeting because it was very important and obviously I'm in LA, so you know, I'm working to other people's schedules and I was I don't know how else to say it. It was I was like, gosh, that's a terrible version of me that I've just such an important meeting. So, I bent my schedule to do it. But actually because it was important, I should have pushed it as late as I possibly could have in hindsight
**主持人**：因为我回看自己在那个会议上的表现，心里直呼太糟糕了。即使是对做播客，我们也定了一条死规矩：我绝不在上午11点之前录制播客。这就是为什么我们今天的节目录制是从上午11点才正式开始的。
Original English **Host**: because I really I look back on that my performance at that meeting. I go that was terrible. You know, even with the podcast, one of the things we set set as a rule where I never ever do podcasts before 11:00 a.m. So this is why this starts at 11:00 a.m. today. And
**神经科学家**：明白。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: yeah,
**主持人**：因为我以前尝试过大清早录节目……
Original English **Host**: cuz I I tried it and
**神经科学家**：是啊。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: yeah,
**主持人**：那时候大脑根本就没开机。这真的很关键。我觉得很多人总在生活中苦苦追寻翻天覆地的大跨步，但有些看似微不足道的细微习惯和调整，经过长年累月的复利叠加，能产生无比深远的影响。
Original English **Host**: the brain wasn't on. It's important. I think you know people are looking for big steps forward in life, but some of these things that seem to be small and marginal can have such a profound compounding impact over the long term. Yeah.
### 注意力劫持与战略性自动化 **主持人**：对于那些坐在家里、深陷我们前面提到的种种困扰的人们来说，有哪些我们还没聊到但至关重要的议题？
Original English **Host**: What is the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should have talked about for the people that are at home and they're struggling with all the
**主持人**：他们面对着我们描述过的典型困境：大脑昏昏沉沉、充满脑雾，手头堆着一堆待办事项，时刻被各种琐事干扰打断，并且为自己的分心深感自责与内疚。他们深知自己本可以做到更多，可充斥着嘈杂、诱惑的外部世界却一次又一次击垮他们的防线。我们还能为他们提供什么有效的工具呢？
Original English **Host**: they've got the customer problems we've described. They're brain fogged. They've got these priorities. They're distracted all the time and they feel a sense of guilt around that distraction. They know they could be doing more, but they the noisy external tempting world is constantly winning. What else can we give them as a tool?
**神经科学家**：这关系到整个世界的演进走向。我接下来说的话可能一瞬间听起来有点悲观沮丧，但我真心希望在隧道尽头能有一束光芒，去赋予人们更多的自主掌控感，并给他们带来启发。正因为我的工作性质以及我所居住的地方，我有幸参与并受邀参加许多会议，与许多正在亲手缔造未来的杰出人物共处一室。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: It's about the way the world is going. I'm at risk of sounding a bit doom and gloom for a second, but I do hope that there's a light at the end of this tunnel that I hope will give people more agency and will inspire them. because of my job and because of where I live, I have uh access to to sitting and being invited into meetings and rooms with a lot of amazing human beings that are creating the future.
**主持人**：其实你提到过一封邮件对吧？我们刚才还没展开讲，但现在或许正是聊聊它的好时机。
Original English **Host**: I mean, there is an email there, isn't there, that we didn't touch on, but maybe this is a good time to reference that.
**神经科学家**：你不太情愿提起那封邮件。它确实让人有点致郁。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: You don't like referencing it. Uh it's it's a bit depressing,
**主持人**：但我认为这极其重要，因为你生活在旧金山……
Original English **Host**: but I think it's important because you live in San Francisco
**主持人**：而且你之前明确指出过，那些科技巨头公司正在频繁向像你这样的专家请教，试图摸清如何最大限度地劫持用户的注意力。
Original English **Host**: and you did make the case that those big companies are coming to people like you to figure out how to hijack attention.
**神经科学家**：是的。我的专业领域就是大脑如何改变与演化，以及如何对其进行重塑和训练。其中我非常熟悉、并且在真正的认知训练追求中极端关键的一个分支，就是我们所称的“战略性自动化”（strategic automaticity）。 战略性自动化，本质上就是让人们在不知不觉、完全没有刻意意图的情况下就把事情给做了。当一种习惯形成时——詹姆斯·克利尔在《原子习惯》这本关于习惯养成的杰出著作中，也深入探讨了这类概念。在最理想的情况下，你希望某种行为或习惯能够在不经思考的情况下自然发生，也就是彻底自动化。想想看，你做某件事时不需要花费大量的思索，或者用一个极好的词来形容——不需要反复权衡与斟酌（deliberation）。对我来说，完全不需要权衡斟酌的事情就像睡前刷牙一样。
Original English **Neuroscientist**: Yeah. My area of expertise is how the brain changes and evolves, how you train it. An area of this that I know quite well because it's extremely important in the pursuit of actual cognitive training is something that we call strategic automaticity. Strategic automaticity is just getting people to do stuff without meaning to do stuff. So when a habit right this is also um James Clear's atomic habits phenomenal book obviously on on habit formation um touches on these kinds of concepts. We want ideally you have a behavior or a habit happen without thinking, right? Automatic. Think about something that you do without a great deal of thought or deliberation is a beautiful word for this. No deliberation for me. It's like brushing my teeth at night.
**主持人**：哪怕我已经困到人事不省，哪怕我之前在沙发上干着别的事直接昏睡过去了，但在某个瞬间我依然会迷迷糊糊惊醒，心里叫一声“糟糕”，然后在真正钻进被窝之前，我还是会晃晃悠悠去把牙刷了。但小孩子通常做不到……
Original English **Host**: I could be passed out. I could literally fall asleep somewhere on the couch while I'm doing something and lo and behold, at some point I will stir awake and be like, "Oh no." And then still before I get to bed, I will brush my teeth. Children don't do
### 习惯形成与“策略性自动化” **Sahar Yousef**: 这种行为很自然。我们小时候是被强迫去刷牙的，但随着时间的推移，它就变成了一种习惯，成了一种我不假思索就会去做的事情。我通常在早上不会去反复权衡要不要冲咖啡，这完全是自动化的，对吧？所以，这种习惯已经达到了“策略性自动化”（strategic automaticity）。我们去掉了其中的深思熟虑过程，现在它的发生是相当自动化的。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: ...this naturally. We're forced into brushing our teeth at an early age, but it becomes a habit over time and it becomes a habit that I do without deliberation. I don't deliberate whether I'm going to make my coffee typically in the morning. It's just quite automatic. Right? So that habit has achieved strategic automaticity. We have removed the deliberation out of it and now it happens quite automatically.
**Sahar Yousef**: 好的，这正是所有习惯追求的目标。再说一次，我研究过成瘾，我研究习惯形成，我也从事认知训练方面的研究——这意味着我一直在试图让人们能够自动化地去完成某些事情。这就是我的目标。我可不想每次希望他们做某件事时，都必须给他们发短信、发提示提醒。对吧？
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: Okay, that's the goal for any habit. Again, I have studied addiction. I study habit formation and I do cognitive training research, which means I'm trying to get people to do stuff automatically. That's my goal. I don't want to have to send them a text message and ping them every time I want them to do the thing. Right?
### 科技巨头的巨额诱惑与招募 **Sahar Yousef**: 世界各地的科技公司一直在疯狂高薪招募像我这样的人。这早有历史渊源，甚至都不是现在才有的事。在 2010、2011、2012、2013、2014 年就已经是这样了。我自己被试图招募的次数已经多得数不清，他们希望我把所知道的、所学过的、研究所得的一切，带进某些科技公司——而法律规定我不能指名道姓地提及这些公司。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: People like me have been hired hand over foot by tech companies around the world. And this is historical. This isn't even a now thing. This was 2010, '11, '12, '13, '14. And I myself have been attempted to be recruited more times than I can count to bring everything that I know and I've studied and I've done research on into certain tech companies that I've been legally told I'm not allowed to name by name.
**Steven Bartlett**: 就像给我看的这个小材料一样。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Just like me this little thing here.
**Sahar Yousef**: 请讲。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: Go ahead.
**Steven Bartlett**: 你收到的一封邮件，意译过来大概是说：“你好，Sahar，我们在加州大学伯克利分校看到了你关于‘策略性自动化’的研究成果，我们非常希望能与你建立联系。我们正寻求提升用户参与度，并让我们的产品更具黏性。你是否愿意抽空通个电话，探讨一下研究合作的机会？”我猜你们这个领域的很多人都会收到这类邀请，因为如果他们能把用户在平台上留存更久，带来的将是数十亿美元级的结果。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: An email you received just, you know, to paraphrase just says, "Hi Sahar, we came across your work on strategic automaticity at UC Berkeley and we'd love to connect. We're looking to increase engagement and make our product more sticky. Would you be open to a quick call [about a] research collaboration opportunity?" Lots of people I guess in your field get these invitations because if they can retain people on their platforms more, it's billion-dollar outcomes.
**Sahar Yousef**: 嗯。我想说的是，首先，我并不认为任何人本质上就是邪恶的或心怀叵测的。这并不是说他们坏，这些只是机会，是工作上的机会，对吧？顺便说一句，他们对像我这样的科学家给出的承诺是：你可以继续做你正在做的事。我们非常认可你的工作，事实上，我们太喜欢了。我们喜欢你的研究，我们只是希望你能作为内部员工来做，这样我们也能落地应用其中的许多成果。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: Mhm. What I will say is that I, first of all, I don't think anyone is inherently evil or bad. Like this is not... it's just opportunities. These are work opportunities, right? And the promise, by the way, for scientists like myself is: you can keep doing what you're doing. We love what you're doing. In fact, love it. We love what you do. We just want you to do it in-house so that we can also implement a lot of these things.
**Sahar Yousef**: 请注意，这一点我是被允许讲出来的：我虽然不能提具体公司的名字，但我可以说，那封特定的邮件附带了一份附件，里面包含工作职责、岗位描述，当然还有薪酬。那份特定职位的报酬，是我当时从事公共科研年薪的整整四倍。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: So, mind you, I am allowed to say this. I'm not allowed to name the companies, but I am allowed to say that that particular email came with an attachment of what the job was, the description, and of course, the compensation. The compensation for that particular role was four times my annual salary doing public research at that time.
**Steven Bartlett**: 这太诱人了。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: It's tempting.
**Sahar Yousef**: 这足以改变一个人的人生，改变一个人的生活轨迹，对吧？
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: Game-changing for somebody, for their life, for their life trajectory. Right?
### 人类面临的“珠峰”挑战与“思考阶层”的隐忧 **Sahar Yousef**: 所以这些确实是非常诱人的条件，在当今时代依然是极其诱人的邀约。我想说的是，数字依赖将会是我们人类物种所面临的“珠穆朗玛峰”。我是非常认真地这么认为的。它蕴含着巨大的潜能，如果被合理利用，能让我们在从医学到经济学的各个领域取得惊人的进步，它是颠覆性的。科技是不可思议的，尤其是人工智能。然而，如果使用不当，它也会伴随着大量的负面代价。在我的愚见看来，我们与技术的关系至关重要，它从根本上决定了我们人类能否在这个星球上继续繁荣发展。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: So these were tempting offers. These are tempting offers modern day. I would say that digital dependence is going to be the Everest for our species. And I really mean that. It has the potential, if leveraged properly, to give us amazing advances in everything from medicine to economics, it's game-changing. Technology is amazing, especially artificial intelligence. However, it comes with a great number of downsides if used improperly. Our relationship with technology is fundamentally critical for, in my humble opinion, whether or not our species continues to thrive on this planet.
**Steven Bartlett**: 你在恐惧什么？
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: What's your fear?
**Sahar Yousef**: 我的恐惧，实际上是我亲耳听闻过的一些令人不安的事情。这是真真切切发生过的故事，来自于我和人工智能领域的行业领袖们一起参加过的真实会议。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: My fear is actually in fact something that I have maybe somewhat disturbingly heard about. This is real story from real meetings that I have sat in with leaders in the AI space.
**Steven Bartlett**: 嗯。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Mhm.
**Sahar Yousef**: 我们目前所面对的、并且照当前局势发展下去极可能成真的情况是——除非我们真正、坦诚地扭转轮盘，尝试采取截然不同的做法——我们正在创造一个未来，在这个未来里将会出现一个所谓的“思考阶层”（thinking class）。人类群体中只有极小的一部分人受过良好教育，拥有足够的注意力广度和专注力，从而能够自主地进行批判性思考。他们能够提出质疑，能够产生新的想法。而这极小部分的人口——说起来有些令人毛骨悚然，但我确实亲耳听到他们被称为“思考阶层”——他们将掌控世界，而世界上其余的大多数人则不再被指望去思考。相反，其余人的工作只是按吩咐做事。当大众处于心不在焉、完全不去思考的状态时，控制他们要容易得多。他们根本没有醒来。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: What we are currently up against is what is likely to happen at this point unless we truly honestly, unless we turn the wheels and try to do something differently. What we are creating is a future where there will be a thinking class. There will be a very small subset of the human population that is educated, that has the attention span and the ability to focus such that they can think critically on their own. They can question things. They can come up with ideas. And this small subset of the human population, in a creepy way, again, I've heard it called the thinking class. They will run the world and the rest of the world will not be expected to think. Instead, their job will be to just do as they're told. And it is far easier to control a populace when they are distracted and not thinking. They're not awake.
**Sahar Yousef**: 这就是我的恐惧。这正是每天激励我前行的动力。这已经成为了我当前的“珠峰”——那就是阐明在心智与机器之间，什么是健康的关系、什么是有意识的构建关系，从而让我们不至于丧失自身的意义。眼下我每天心心念念所执着的，就是把掌控权和能动性重新交还给人们，试图唤醒他们，让他们意识到：如果我们继续这样心不在焉、浑浑噩噩下去，我们将过上一种自己毫无意识、而且并不喜欢的生活。当你走向生命的尽头时，留下的遗憾将会多得数不清。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: And this is my fear. And this is in fact what is motivating me on a daily basis. This is my Everest at this point is to illuminate what is a healthy relationship, an intentional relationship between minds and machines such that we don't lose our meaning. And this is what I'm obsessed with on a daily basis at the moment is giving agency back to people and trying to wake them up and get them to realize that if we stay this distracted, we will live a life unintentionally that we don't like living. You will end up on your deathbed with more regrets than you can count.
### 教育普及的倒退与 AI 代替思考的诱惑 **Sahar Yousef**: 而且在社会和全球层面，我们将经历相比上个世纪的剧烈转变。顺便提一句，上个世纪在人类教育普及方面取得的成就是极其惊人的。我们教育了更多的人类同胞。想想女性群体，想想我们在追求女性权益和平等方面取得了多大的进步。现在有多少女性接受了极高水平的教育，并在从事着惊人的事业？而仅仅在几代人之前，甚至就在上一代人之前，我们都根本无法奢望拥有这样的待遇。事实上，我们曾取得了如此瞩目的进展，不断扩大了“思考阶层”的规模。曾经，“思考阶层”是很狭小的群体，但现在我必须告诉你，它正在再次萎缩。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: And at a social and global level, we are going to have a drastic change from this last century. This last century, by the way, has been absolutely amazing as it relates to education for people. We have been educating more human beings. Think of girls and how much progress we've made in the pursuit of equity and equality for women. How many women are now extremely highly educated and doing amazing things where we would not have had that luxury a few generations ago? One generation ago in fact. We've made such amazing strides in fact to expand the thinking class. The thinking class used to be small, and I'm telling you now that it is shrinking again...
**Steven Bartlett**: 是因为算法和……
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: ...because of algorithms and...
**Sahar Yousef**: 还有人工智能。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: ...and AI...
**Steven Bartlett**: 还有人工智能。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: ...and AI.
**Sahar Yousef**: 人工智能正在剥夺我们大量的思考能力——我这里用词非常谨慎。它之所以从我们身上夺走思考，是因为我们正在任由它这么做。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: AI is taking a lot of the thinking away from us, and I'm using my words quite carefully there. It's taking it away from us because we're also letting it.
**Steven Bartlett**: 刚才早些时候我说过，我们现在的写作量比以往任何时候都要多。我之所以这么说，是因为我正在极力抵制让 AI 代替我思考的诱惑。其实昨天我和一位向我汇报工作的同事就有过一次交流，得到的反馈是……我直截了当地对这个人说：“在现实面对面的交流中，你的推理能力远比你发给我的书面材料要严密得多。这是因为那些文字并不是你写的。在面对面交流时，你其实比 AI 表现得更好，因为你拥有更丰富、更真实的现实世界语境。”我觉得现在正是一个非常关键的时刻，人们必须抵制让 ChatGPT 或大语言模型替自己思考的诱惑。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Earlier on, I said we're writing more than ever. And the reason I said that was because I'm actively trying to resist the temptation of allowing AI to think for me. And I had a conversation actually yesterday with one of my colleagues who reports to me. And the feedback was... I said to this person in real life, "Your reasoning is so much stronger than when you send me things that are written. And that is because that's not you. You're actually better than AI because you have more context. You have more real-world context." And I think it's a really interesting moment for people to resist the temptation to let Chatty or LLM think for them.
### 人脑的生物学本能：追求认知捷径 **Steven Bartlett**: 但是天哪，这简直太有诱惑力了。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: But gosh, it's going to be so bloody tempting.
**Sahar Yousef**: 确实太诱人了。噢，Steven，这又回到了原点。什么是错的？什么是错的同时又是对的？这是又一个悖论，又是该死的生物学法则在作祟。人类的大脑天生就是为了寻找捷径而构建的。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: It's tempting. Oh, Steven. It goes back. What's wrong? What's wrong and what's right at the same time? It's another paradox. It's another paradox. It's those damn biological laws. The human brain is wired for shortcuts.
**Steven Bartlett**: 嗯。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Mhm.
**Sahar Yousef**: 也就是说，如果有获取食物和热量的捷径，我们必然会走捷径。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: Meaning if there is a shortcut to food and calories, we're going to take it.
**Steven Bartlett**: 没错。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Yeah.
**Sahar Yousef**: 我们本来就该这么做，因为在过去，食物曾经极度匮乏。如果我们不这么做，那简直是愚蠢至极。记住生存本能，整个生物系统都是为了生存而存在的。我们生来就是要走捷径的。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: We're supposed to because food used to be scarce. We'd be idiotic not to, remember survival. This whole system is there for survival. We are designed to take shortcuts.
**Sahar Yousef**: 我想借此向丹尼尔·卡尼曼（Daniel Kahneman）致敬。丹尼·卡尼曼，加州大学伯克利分校的教授（加州大学加油！），愿他安息。如果我没记错的话，他也是第一位、且是唯一一位获得诺贝尔经济学奖的心理学家。丹·卡尼曼闻名于世，不仅因为他写了享誉全球的著作《思考，快与慢》，而且作为一名学者，在我所处的领域里，依我愚见，他更因揭示了“认知偏差”而闻名。我不想让大家觉得认知偏差是什么坏事，这并不是一种疾病模型，这就是我们所说的走捷径。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: I will give some props to Daniel Kahneman. Danny Kahneman, UC Berkeley professor (Go Bears!), may he rest in peace. Also the first psychologist—first and only, if I'm not mistaken, psychologist to win the Nobel Prize in Economics. Now Dan Kahneman is quite famous for not only writing the world-famous book *Thinking, Fast and Slow*, but as a researcher, in my humble opinion, more famous in my world for illuminating cognitive biases. And these are not necessarily... I don't want people to think like, "Oh no, they're bad." It's not like a disease model here. These are the shortcuts we're talking about.
**Sahar Yousef**: 人类的大脑在极力快速地搞清楚：我能否信任你？我喜欢你吗？我喜欢眼前发生的事情吗？我想要什么、被什么所吸引？我有什么动力去争取什么？大脑只是在努力减少做所有这些决策所耗费的能量。否则的话，这个世界刺激过多，充斥着海量的数据和信息，完全会让我们不堪重负。因此，大脑被设计成能够解析所有这些信息，而且它天生就是为了走捷径而设计的。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: The human brain is trying to figure out very, very quickly: Can I trust you? Do I like you? Do I like what's happening? What do I want? What am I attracted to? What am I motivated to actually go get? It's just trying to decrease the amount of energy that it takes to make all of the decisions. Otherwise, the world is far too stimulating and full of way too much data and information. It would overwhelm us. So, the brain is designed to parse all this information, and it's designed for shortcuts.
**Sahar Yousef**: 丹尼尔·卡尼曼有一句名言，也是我最喜欢的引语之一：“思考之于人类，犹如游泳之于猫。”它们确实能做，但它们宁可不做。对吧，猫其实会游泳。
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: Daniel Kahneman is famous... one of my favorite quotes of his: "Thinking is to humans as swimming is to cats." They can do it, but they would prefer not to. Okay. Cats can swim.
**Steven Bartlett**: 嗯。
Original English **Steven Bartlett**: Mhm.
**Sahar Yousef**: 它们只是不喜欢游泳。所以思考也是……
Original English **Sahar Yousef**: They don't like it. So thinking is...
### 大脑的节能本能与摆脱对技术的内疚感 **Stephen Bartlett**: ……同样的方式。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: ...the same way.
**Sahar**: 这违背了我们保存能量、放松和储备的生存本能。你知道，尤其是在你之前提到的那个卡路里并不充裕的世界里。就像现在进行这场对话，需要大量的思考，正在燃烧大量的卡路里，而且……
Original English **Sahar**: It's against our survival instincts of energy conservation, relaxing, preserving. You know, especially in a world you talked about earlier about where their calories weren't abundant. Like even doing this conversation now requires a lot of thinking. It's burning a lot of calories and...
**Stephen Bartlett**: 我觉得我们需要彩虹糖了。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: I think we need Skittles.
**Sahar**: 没错。我燃烧的卡路里越多，从进化角度来看，大脑就越觉得我的日子不多了，对吧？所以这是一件很有意思的事：我们其实并不想去思考。
Original English **Sahar**: Exactly. The more calories I burn, they're like my days are numbered, right? Like from an evolutionary perspective. So that's an interesting thing that we don't actually want to think.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 对此不要心怀羞耻感，这一点很重要。顺便说一句，这也与我们刷手机以及我们与科技的关系息息相关。如果你发现自己依赖刷手机、有些上瘾，并且对自己与科技的关系并不满意，这没什么好羞耻的。没关系的，请不要为此感到羞耻或内疚。这很自然。祝贺你，有成百上千的专家把这些工具设计得如此让人上瘾。果不其然，你拥有一个人类已然了解的大脑，而你的大脑上瘾了。所以，这完全没有羞耻的必要。问题只是我们接下来该怎么做？依我拙见，首先是评估，就像做个验血一样，获取数据来看看情况到底有多严重，哪些地方在“大出血”，哪些地方最糟糕，哪些地方还可以，然后再去执行我们讨论过的一些策略。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: ...it's important not to have shame around it. This is also connected by the way to the scrolling and our relationship with our technology. There's no shame if you find yourself dependent on scrolling addicted somewhat and you're not happy with your relationship with technology. It's okay. Please don't feel shame or guilt around it. It's natural. Congratulations. You have literally hundreds of experts that have designed these tools to be as addictive as they are. Lo and behold, you have a brain that we understand and your brain became addicted. So, there's no shame in it. It's just what do we do next? And my humble opinion is first assess get like a a blood test essentially like get get data on how bad the situation is, where are the bleeds and where is it worse and where is it okay and then go implement some of the tactics that we talked about.
### 多任务处理实验：切换成本的真相 **Stephen Bartlett**: 我非常不擅长的一件事就是——我想我之前提到过——我一直坚信多任务处理是确有其事的，它是一种更高效的解决方式，而且我一度为自己擅长上下文切换而感到非常自豪。但我听说了你做的一个练习，专门用来向人们证明多任务处理只是一个神话。我的 iPad 就在这里，而且正在录屏。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: One of the the things I am terrible at is I think I mentioned this earlier is I I think multitasking is I've always believed it is a thing. it is a more productive solution and I consider myself to be a very proud context switcher. But then I heard about this exercise that you do to prove to people that multitasking is a myth. I have my iPad here and it's recording the screen.
**Sahar**: 好的。
Original English **Sahar**: Okay.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 这样我就可以把 iPad 屏幕展示给观众看。揭示这个神话的思维实验或任务到底是什么？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: So I can show the audience my iPad. What is this thought experiment or task that highlights the myth?
**Sahar**: 顺便说一句，它非常简单。Stephen，你要为我做的是在那张纸上画两条线。
Original English **Sahar**: It's so simple too by the way. So what you're going to do for me, Stephen, and draw two lines on that piece of paper.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 从高层次来看，这能证明什么呢？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: And what is this going to prove from a high level?
**Sahar**: 我们打算做的，是使用一个可以说是极度过度简化的“任务”。这对你来说简直太容易了。但我们试图通过它来了解我们所谓的“切换成本”。
Original English **Sahar**: What we are going to attempt to do is do using the most I would say ridiculously oversimplified quote unquote task. This is insanely easy for you. But what we're attempting to do is get a sense of what we call your switch cost.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 好的？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Okay?
**Sahar**: 切换成本，就是你每次将注意力从 A 切换到 B 再切换到 C 等等时，本质上浪费的时间和精力。这是生物学法则。又是另一条法则：天下没有免费的午餐。每一次你用你的肉体凡胎做一件事，你都必须为此付出代价。
Original English **Sahar**: Your switch cost is the amount of time and energy that you essentially waste every single time you switch your attention from A to B to C. So on and so forth. Biological law. Another one. There's no free lunch. Every single time you do something with your biological being, you pay for it.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 我们走着瞧。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: We shall see.
**Sahar**: 好，我们开始吧。
Original English **Sahar**: Okay, let's do this.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 我们走着瞧。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: We shall see.
**Sahar**: 好的，只要你准备好了，就先为我画两条线。我会为你计时。所以先别开始。你在上面那条线上要写的是：“I'm a great multitasker”（我是个多任务处理高手）。在下面那条线上写——因为你确实是，对吧？眨眨眼，没有评判的意思。
Original English **Sahar**: Okay, whenever you're ready, you're going to go ahead and draw two lines for me. And I'm going to time you. So, don't start yet. But what you're going to write on the top line is you're going to write, "I'm a great multitasker." And on the bottom line, cuz you are, right? Wink wink, not judge.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 我是个多任务处理高手。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: I'm a great multitasker.
**Sahar**: 明白了吗？然后在下面那条线上，你要写数字 1 到 20。你要以尽可能最快的速度写完，我会为你计时。好吗？我会大声读出时间。好的，你准备好了吗？
Original English **Sahar**: Okay? And then at the bottom line, you're going to write the numbers 1 through 20. And you will do this as fast as you possibly can. and I will time you. Okay? And I will read out the times out loud. All right. Are you ready?
**Stephen Bartlett**: 准备好了。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Yeah.
**Sahar**: 各就各位。
Original English **Sahar**: Get ready.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 好了。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Yeah.
**Sahar**: 预备。
Original English **Sahar**: Get set.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 开始。从 0 到 20。嗯哼。忍不住想说脏话很正常。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Go. From 0 to 20. Uhhuh. Exploitives are natural.
**Sahar**: 好的。写完了，完成了。
Original English **Sahar**: Okay. There you go. Done.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 搞定。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Done.
**Sahar**: 31 秒。
Original English **Sahar**: 31 seconds.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 好的。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Okay.
**Sahar**: 非常漂亮。我要你再做一次。
Original English **Sahar**: Beautiful. I want you to do this one more time.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 好。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Okay.
**Sahar**: 这一次你完成的方式会稍微有些不同。
Original English **Sahar**: This time the way in which you will arrive will be a little different.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 好的。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Okay.
**Sahar**: 你要交替着写。也就是说，你从上面那条线开始，先写字母 I；然后跳到下面那条线——先别开始，我会为你计时的，对——跳到下面那条线写数字 1；再回到上面那条线写字母 A；跳到下面那条线写数字 2；再回到上面那条线写字母 M；跳到下面那条线写数字 3，依此类推，直到你把两条线的内容都写完。
Original English **Sahar**: You're going to alternate. So, you're going to start at the top line and you're going to write the letter I. You're going to drop down to the bottom. Don't start yet. I'm going to time you. Yeah. Move down to the bottom line. Number one, back up to the top line. Letter A down to the bottom line. Number two, back up to the top line. Letter M down the bottom line. Number three, so on and so forth until you finish both lines.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 好的。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Okay,
**Sahar**: 我再给你另一个选择，因为如果你心里在想：“Sahar，我的手快如赛车，在这两条线之间来回切换会浪费时间。”那行，你完全可以全写在同一行上，但你依然必须交替着写。所以它依然必须是 I、1、A、2 这样交替写下去。全都交替写在同一行里，它看起来会像一团乱麻，在我看来稍微更难追踪，但有些人更喜欢这样。
Original English **Sahar**: I'm going to give you one other option because if you're thinking, Sahar, this hand is a NASCAR. Like, I'm going to lose time going back and forth between these two lines. Fine. You can do it all on one line, but you still have to alternate. So, it still needs to be I1, you know, 2 A, so on and so forth. So, it needs to like alternate all in one line. So, it's going to look like a garbled mess. So, it's a little harder to track in my opinion, but some people prefer it.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 你知道吗？如果到了 31 秒，你就直接叫停，我就停下来，好吗？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Do you know what? If I get to 31 seconds, just tell me and I'll stop. Okay.
**Sahar**: 因为你已经预料到这会非常痛苦了。
Original English **Sahar**: Cuz it's that you're already anticipating it's going to be that painful.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 是的。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Yeah.
**Sahar**: 好的，预备好。
Original English **Sahar**: Okay. All right. Get ready.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 好了。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Yeah.
**Sahar**: 各就各位，开始。
Original English **Sahar**: Get set. Go.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 哎呀，我忘了数数了。真奇怪。天哪，这简直是一场灾难。我刚才写到哪儿了？呃，那儿。我觉得我作弊了，我感觉自己像作弊了一样。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Hey. I forgot to count. That's weird. Oh my gosh, this is a show. Where was I? Uh there. I think I cheated. I just feel like I've cheated.
**Sahar**: 不好意思，已经到 30 秒了。你写到哪儿了？
Original English **Sahar**: I'm sorry. We're at 30. How far did you get?
**Stephen Bartlett**: 我才写到数字 8。好吧，我的数学算不上太好，但这也只有我专注完成时速度的 40%——当我在数字和字母之间多任务切换时，速度慢了整整 60%。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: I got to number eight. Okay, so that was my math isn't great, but that is 40% of the speed as when I just focused differently 60% slower when I was multitasking between numbers and letters.
**Sahar**: 数字和字母之间。
Original English **Sahar**: numbers and letters.
### 注意力残留与认知闭合 **Stephen Bartlett**: 所以在日常工作中，理论上，仅仅是在两种不同类型的任务之间来回切换，我就可能损失掉 60% 的工作效率。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: So on a daily basis, theoretically, I'm losing potentially 60% of my productivity theoretically just by switching between two different types of tasks at once.
**Sahar**: 是的。所以你不仅完成的事情更少，而且从精力消耗来看，一种方式比另一种昂贵得多。
Original English **Sahar**: Yeah. So, you're not only getting less done, energetically, one is more expensive than the other.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 你知道吗？这个过程的体验差太多了，简直令人痛苦。而且你知道另一件事吗？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Do you know what? It was It was way less enjoyable. It was painful. Do you know the other thing?
**Sahar**: 哦，怎么说？
Original English **Sahar**: Oh, yeah.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 这真的让我想起了我平时的日常工作方式。因为每次我从一行切到另一行、从字母跳到数字时，我都必须重新提醒自己：刚才数字数到哪儿了？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: It really did remind me of the how I've been working because every time I went from one line to the other, I went from the letters to the number, I had to like remind myself again of where I was with the numbers.
**Sahar**: 确实如此。
Original English **Sahar**: Yes.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 你能理解那种感觉吗？而当我跳回字母时，我又在想：我们刚才字母写到哪儿了？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Does that make sense? And then when I went back to the letters, I was like, where are we again with the letters?
**Sahar**: 完全理解。
Original English **Sahar**: Totally.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 所以这中间存在一个微小的断档，我得停下来去搞清楚字母 I 后面接的是什么。这真的太不可思议了，非常具有启发性。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: So there was a little bit of a gap there in me like trying to figure out what came after the letter I, for example. It's really fascinating cuz it Yeah. So illuminating.
**Sahar**: 顺便说一句，你刚才切实体会到的那种感觉，其实有一个专门的概念名称，它是如此真切可感。
Original English **Sahar**: By the way, there's a there's a name for that concept that you were just you were feeling it. It's palpable.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 是什么？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Yeah.
**Sahar**: 它被称为“注意力残留”（Attentional Residue）。
Original English **Sahar**: It's called attentional residue.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 嗯。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Yeah.
**Sahar**: 我知道这听起来有点刺耳，对吧？
Original English **Sahar**: I know it sounds gross, right?
**Stephen Bartlett**: 是的，注意力残留。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Yeah. Attention. Yeah.
**Sahar**: 我更喜欢把它称为“注意力包袱”（Attentional Baggage），因为我觉得这个视觉意象更形象。意思是说，除非你彻底了结前一项任务，否则你就会把上一项任务的所有包袱统统带进下一个任务中。我常说要获得“认知闭合”（Cognitive Closure）。
Original English **Sahar**: I call it attentional baggage because I find the visual that that creates better. Meaning you carry into the next task all the the baggage from the previous task unless you close out. I I say get cognitive closure.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 就像关掉电脑上的标签页一样，心里默念：“好了，这项工作我要收尾归档了，达成认知闭合，把箱子封好。”不要把上一个箱子或包裹里的东西带到下一件事情中。尽量去获得认知闭合。当你进行多任务处理时，你一方面根本无法真正投入到下一个任务中，另一方面你又背负着上一个任务的包袱。这会让你花费更长的时间去真正完成任何一件事——顺便提一句，现在的估计数据显示，普通的知识工作者每天仅仅在不同屏幕和不同任务之间来回跳转，浪费的平均时间就超过了 2 个小时。我觉得这简直太疯狂了。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Close out the tab, so to speak, on your computer and just be like, "All right, this I'm going to do cleanup shop. Get cognitive closure. Close the box." And don't carry one bag into, you know, box or a bag. Don't carry it from one thing into the next thing. Try to as much as possible get cognitive closure. When you multitask one, you're barely onboarding to the next task. You're carrying from the last one. It's taking you longer to actually finish anything up to, you know, by the way, over 2 hours a day is the estimated average now for the average knowledge worker just bouncing between screens and different tasks. I think it's absolutely wild.
### 播客收尾传统：如何变得更加幸运 **Stephen Bartlett**: 我们这个播客有一个收尾传统：上一位嘉宾会为下一位嘉宾留下一个问题，而他们并不知道这个问题是留给谁的。留给你的问题非常棒，真的很棒，我很喜欢这种巧合。这个问题是：听众怎样才能变得更加幸运？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: So, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. The question left for you, very good question left for you. Very good question. I love when this happens. Is how can the audience become more lucky?
**Sahar**: 我太喜欢这个问题了。
Original English **Sahar**: I love this question.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 而且我正好有答案，这真是太好了。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: And I have an answer, which is nice.
**Sahar**: 是的，遇到这种情况确实很美好。关于运气：变得更加幸运的方法，就是去启动大脑的定向意识，也就是训练大脑去主动寻找运气——属于你的运气。因为对你而言的幸运，我推测，肯定与我的幸运以及下一个人的幸运截然不同。
Original English **Sahar**: Yes, it's nice when that happens. Luck. The way to become more lucky is to prime the mind, to train it, I would say, to look for luck, your luck, cuz lucky for you, I'm assuming, would be is very different than my luck and the next person's luck.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 你必须清楚你的“珠穆朗玛峰”是什么。还是那句话，你需要在想象中走到临终之榻，想清楚对你而言的美好人生究竟是什么，弄明白你的意图和目标是什么。比如，你真正在寻找的到底是什么？因为如果你连这个都不知道，你就根本没有任何可以去寻找的目标。我们甚至都不知道你想在哪个领域获得好运，对吧？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: You have to know what your Everest is. Again, you need to go to that deathbed. Figure out what a good life for you is. Figure out what your intentions are and your goals. Like what is it that you're looking for? Cuz if you don't know, then there's nothing for you to look for. We have we don't even know what you want to get lucky at, right?
**Sahar**: 嗯哼。
Original English **Sahar**: Mhm.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 所以，第一点，你必须对自己真正想要什么有着无比清晰的认识，对吧？一旦你极其明确自己想要什么，你就需要每天反问并提醒自己，那座“珠穆朗玛峰”究竟是什么。然后你……
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: So, one, you have to get crystal clear on what it is that you want, right? Once you're crystal clear on what you want, you need to ask yourself and remind yourself on a daily basis what that Everest is. And then you...
### 踏板与领奖台：将注意力引向真正的目标 **Stephen Bartlett**: 你刚才总结得太精辟了。这不正是“踏板还是领奖台”（Pedal vs. Podium）的问题吗？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: ...need to it's it's that you said it beautifully. Is it pedal versus podium?
**Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 没错。我今天能做哪一件具体的事，让我离那个长远目标更进一步？如果你先给大脑输入明确的预热信号——什么是你的目标，什么是你的珠峰，你的最终目的到底是什么，你在寻找什么，你渴望在什么事情上撞大运、获得机遇——只要这些清晰地印在你的脑海里，而不是被我们日常塞进大脑的那些杂音所占据，你就是在调高有效信号的音量。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Right? What is the one thing I can do today that is going to make me incrementally closer to that long-term goal? If you prime the mind with what is your goal, what is your Everest, what is what what your objectives are, what you're looking for, what you're hoping to get lucky about, what you're hoping to get lucky in, then if it's on your mind instead of all the that we fill the mind with, this is turning the signal up.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 嗯。我们整场对话的核心，一部分是关于如何调低噪音的音量，另一部分则是关于调高信号：当我们谈论你的终极动因、你的珠峰、长远目标以及临终前的自我形象时，是在校准方向；而当我们谈到最重要任务（MITs）时，那就是具体的“踏板”——今天我该如何掌舵、如何推进这一天，今天能做哪一件具体的事让我离那个长远目标更近一点。这就是所谓的行动抓手，从而让你迎来更多运气。大脑其实有点奇妙甚至不可思议，它会自动去搜集数据和证据，来证实它原本所持有的信念。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Mhm. We've talked all of this conversation has been about turning the noise down and parts we talk about the signal when we talk about your ultimate why your Everest your long-term goals that deathbed self and then we talk about the MITs which is the pedal how can I drive my day what can I do today that's going to make me incrementally closer to that long-term goal right that's the the what so to speak in order to get more lucky. The mind bit spooky, it will look for data and evidence to support its beliefs.
**Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 无论哪种信念，它都会去证实。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Either way,
### 大脑是一台专注与证据搜寻机器 **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 两种情况皆是如此。所以，如果你总在反刍消极情绪，如果你始终陷在受害者心态里，如果你老是在想：“看啊，我全是缺点，我永远成不了事，我离目标太遥远了，珠峰高高在上、遥不可及。”猜猜你最终会注意到什么？你所能看到的只会是一扇扇紧闭的大门，因为潜意识里你是个受害者，那些门根本不是为你敞开的。你会注意到自己所有的短板与不足，并把所有注意力都聚焦在上面。 大脑本身就是一台专注机器。正如我们所说，它天生就是用来搜寻并锁定那些能够印证其固有信念的证据，它时刻都在进行扫描过滤。所以，如果你给大脑植入积极的预热信号，你就会找到属于你的好运，因为好运一直都在那里，机遇从未缺席。这个世界绝非像表面看上去那样布满无法逾越的砖墙；那些看似坚固的砖墙其实是一扇扇门，它们上面都是有把手的。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: either way. So, if you ruminate, if you stay in that victim mindset, if you stay in that, oh, look at my shortcomings. I'm never going to make it, but I'm so far away from that. The Everest is all the way up there. Guess what you will notice? What you will notice are closed doors because apparently you're a victim and they're not for you. You will notice all of your shortcomings and you'll focus on them. This is a focus machine. As we said, this thing is designed to look for the evidence and find the evidence that confirms its beliefs. It's constantly scanning. So, if you prime this thing Oh. You'll find your luck cuz your luck is right there. The opportunities are there. The world is not full of brick walls the way that it may seem. Those brick walls are doors. They have handles.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 就像不断默念：“我是个幸运的人，我是个幸运的人……但我确实是个幸运的人，我是个幸运的人，我是个幸运的人。”
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: I'm a lucky person. I'm a lucky person. But I'm a lucky person. I'm a lucky person. I'm a lucky person.
**Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 这听起来像是“显化法则”（manifestation）。我想再推你一把。如果大家喜欢这种积极思考的方式，那很好，积极思维很棒也很美好。但更重要的是：你究竟想要达成什么？你想要实现的具体成果是什么？比如说，你是不是一直想邀请某位重磅嘉宾上节目，但始终联系不上，因而感到沮丧？我希望你每天清晨醒来时都抱着坚定的信念：“我一定会找到联系上你的路径。”你一定能找到途径。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: I feel like that's manifestation. I want to push you further. And if people are into that, I think great positive thinking. That's all it's all lovely and beautiful. I mean, what are you trying to achieve here? What are you trying to achieve is like, do you have a guest that you're trying to bring on that you that you've not been able to to to find and you're just upset? Like, I want you to be wake up every single day and just like be like, I will find my way to you. You will find
**Stephen Bartlett**: 比如把巴拉克·奥巴马（Barack Obama）请到这个播客里来！我们就定这个目标！ **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 不，不，严肃地说，如果你不断强化这个目标，它真的会发生。但这不仅仅是口头上说说而已，而是因为你会持续把“这是我的核心目标之一”置于脑海前沿。我向你保证，接下来你会在生活中敏锐地捕捉到与之相关的机会——你可能会在某个偶然场合巧遇他以前的幕僚长。这一定会发生，因为这件事情在你脑海中占据了头等优先级。你的大脑生来就是要寻找证据和数据来支撑其信念。所以，如果你发自内心坚信奥巴马会登上这档播客，他最终就会走到这张椅子上坐下来。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Let's get Barack Obama on this podcast. Let's do it. **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: No, no. If you keep saying it, it will happen. But it's not just about saying it. You will be thinking about like that is one of my goals. you, I promise you, you're going to see opportunities. You're going to end up meeting one of his former chiefs of staff at a random. It's just going to happen because it's top of mind for you. And your brain is designed to look for the evidence and the data to support its beliefs. So, if truly believe Barack will be on this podcast, he'll find his way to this chair.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 没错，我们知道他肯定得来，对吧？既然我们已经向宇宙发出宣言了，他就必须得来，他一定会来的。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: No, we know he has to, right? We've spoken it into the universe. He's got to. He's got to.
### 科学应当造福大众：量化数字依赖与注意力评估 **Stephen Bartlett**: 我真的非常喜爱你的研究与工作，原因有很多。很多复杂晦涩的知识往往会一直深奥难懂，直到遇见像你这样的人——既有化繁为简的卓越能力，又怀有深刻的同理心去体察那些被科普的对象。看到你最近刚刚开通了自己的 YouTube 频道，我感到超级兴奋。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: I mean, I just love your work for so many reasons. I think sometimes the complicated can stay complicated until it finds someone like you who has the ability to simplify and have the empathy to understand those that they're simplifying it for. And I was super excited to see you just started a YouTube channel.
**Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 是的，我刚开通了。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: I did.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 我强烈建议大家去订阅你的 YouTube 频道。我会把链接附在下方，如果我们做联合推送的话，屏幕上应该也能看到对应的小图标。极力推荐大家关注并订阅 Dr. Sahar，因为她一直在做着非常伟大的研究工作，持续探索新知并毫无保留地分享给我们所有人。这免去了我们自己去从头搭建超人实验室的巨大成本——她已经把实验室建好了。我们只需要关注她，直接吸收这些成果。大家肯定不希望自己的信息流完全被推荐算法随意投喂，而是想要主动按下订阅键。所以，请大家前往她的频道关注 Dr. Sahar。 除了频道之外，如果大家想更深入了解你的工作，或者想要进一步关注你，还有什么推荐的渠道吗？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: And I would highly recommend people go and subscribe to your YouTube channel. I'll link it below, but it should be if we collab, you should be able to see the little icon there. Highly recommend um you go and subscribe to Dr. our heart because, you know, she's continuing to do great work. She's continuing to learn and share that knowledge with all of us. And it saves us having to build these superhuman labs that she's built. Um, we can just go follow her and um have the, you know, you don't want the algorithm to be serving up your content. You want the subscription button. So, go ahead and follow Dr. Saha over on her channel as well. Is there anywhere else people should go to get your work or to understand more about you or to follow you?
**Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 我希望能帮助大家重新掌控自己的生活，活出有意识、自主选择的人生，去追求他们真正想做的事。 因此，我给出的诚恳建议是：先获取关于你自身的数据，切实评估你对数字设备的依赖程度（digital dependence），测一测你的注意力跨度（attention span）。你以前测过自己的注意力水平吗？你知道自己在人群中处于什么区间吗？也许情况并没有你想象的那么糟，也许你的注意力表现出奇地优异、完全不需要为此担忧，对吧？ 我始终坚信一点——我也非常希望世界能朝这个方向改变，希望我们能贡献一份微薄之力让这成为一种大众普遍习惯：正如我们每年都会去医院做一次年度常规体检一样，去了解“我目前的身体状况如何”，做血液检查，全面排查身体各项指标。那么，为什么我们偏偏从不对自己的大脑和心智进行常规检查呢？ 我们往往不会这么做，而是一直拖到心智状态彻底崩溃、一团糟的时候才想起来应对。这就好比非要等汽车引擎都已经起火自燃了，才惊呼：“哎呀，糟糕！”不应该这样，我们在平时就应该采取科学的干预措施。但我们如何知道该采取什么措施呢？答案就是数据。前提是我们收集了数据，并且大众能够便捷地获取专业评估工具。所以我一直极其热衷于将严谨的科学评估工具开放给公众。我认为，科学应当造福于人民，而不是沦为资本盈利的工具。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: I want to help people one gain control over their lives and live a life of intention of their choosing whatever it is that they want to do. So my humble recommendation is to gain some data on you to actually assess your digital dependence. Assess your attention span. You ever taken a test of your attention? Like do you know where it falls? Like like maybe it's not so bad. Maybe you're off the charts amazing. we don't need to worry about it. Right? I'm a firm believer the way that um and I would love the world to change in this way and I know and I and I and I hope in some small part we can help make this more of a common thing that people do. But the same way that we go to the doctor once a year and we have this like annual physical usually, you know, like how am I doing? I get a blood test. You check all the things. Why is it that we're not checking our minds? We don't do that. We just wait for it to go to and then we do something about it. Like we wait for the car to be on fire and then we're like, "Oh, oops." No, we should have things that we're doing along the way. But how do we know what to do? The data. If we collect data and we actually have assessments available to people. So I'm a extremely passionate about making scientific assessments available to the general public. I think science should be for people, not profits.
**Stephen Bartlett**: 在哪里可以找到这个评估测试？
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Where do I find the assessment?
**Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 登录 mmminstitute.org 即可。就是 MMM……
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: You go to mmminstitute.org. mm
**Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 代表“Mind, Machine and Meaning”（心智、机器与意义研究所）。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: mind machine and meaning
**Stephen Bartlett**: institute.org，好的，我会把网址链接放在下方，并且在屏幕中央以特大字号标出来：mmminstitute.org，上面提供免费的测评工具。 非常感谢你今天做客节目，太精彩了。请务必坚持把你的事业继续做下去。你是一颗闪耀的新星。在我的经历中，偶尔会遇到真正耀眼的人物，而你毫无疑问就是其中之一。我无比期待并兴奋地见证你的事业在未来绽放出更耀眼的光芒。非常感谢你，Dr. Sahar。我们今天的访谈告一段落。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: institute.org okay I'll link that below and I'll put it really big on the screen here mminstitute.org free assessments thank you so much for being here such a man please keep doing the work that you're doing you're a you're a star and sometimes once in a while I meet stars and you're certainly a star so I'm excited to watch your career unfold from here on outwards thank you Dr. Sarah, we're done.
**Dr. Sahar Yousef**: 谢谢你。
Original English **Dr. Sahar Yousef**: Thank you.
### 线下工作坊与算法推荐结语 **Stephen Bartlett**: 好的，各位观众，如果你喜欢这期节目，我们即将开启一项全球首创的全新尝试。正如我在本期节目开篇时提到的，我们计划将今天整场深入对话的内容，转化成一场即将举行的实时互动式工作坊，由我和 Dr. Sahar 共同主讲。如果你想报名参与，现在屏幕上以及视频下方都提供了专属链接。 通过这个工作坊，你将获得什么？当我们进行这种长达两三个小时的深度对谈时，信息量往往极其庞大；但很多时候观众会发信息对我说：“Stephen，我听懂了所有这些知识，但我完全不知道下一步该具体怎么做。”这就像是我们一路领着你走到了商店门口，却把你丢在门槛前没有继续指引。 因此，我和 Dr. Sahar 即将联手推出的这场工作坊，将把大家今天学到的所有认知拆解为可以直接落实到现实生活中的行动法则，并配备纸质实操手册及其他配套工具，确保这些理念能够真正内化并落地生根。同时，你还将加入一个紧密团结的互助社群，大家聚在一起共同攻克这些生活中的专注力挑战与机遇。期待在那里见到各位！因为名额确实有限，只能容纳固定人数加入。如果你对这个话题哪怕有一丝兴趣，相信我，这绝对是你最不容错过的一场工作坊，现场体验一定会无比震撼。链接就在下方，期待与大家相见！ 另外，YouTube 最近上线了一个全新而强大的推荐算法，能够基于人工智能与你所有的观看行为习惯，精准预测你接下来最想看什么视频。算法判定，屏幕前推荐的这个视频就是此刻最适合你的绝佳内容。每个观众此刻看到的推荐都是量身定制的。不妨点击进去看看这个视频，我敢打赌你一定会深深爱上它。
Original English **Stephen Bartlett**: Okay, so if you've enjoyed this episode, we're going to do a world first. As I said at the start of this episode, we're going to turn this whole conversation into a live interactive workshop that's taking place soon with me and Dr. Saha. If you want to sign up and be part of that, there's a link on screen now and there's a link below. Here's what you'll get from it. When we have these two, three-hour conversations, there's so much information, but often times you message me and say, "Stephen, like, I learned all this stuff, but I don't know what to do next." It's kind of like we walk you to the shop and then we leave you in the shop door. So, with this workshop that me and Dr. Sahara are going to put on, we're going to take everything you learned today and break it into actionable principles that you can take into your own life with physical workbooks and other materials so that it sticks and also you'll become part of the community who are all working on this challenge and opportunity together. I hope to see you there. There is only a certain amount of people that can join the workshop because we do have a limit. If it sounds at all interesting, trust me, this is the one you want to join. It's going to be amazing. The link is below and I hope to see you guys there. YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing behavior. And the algorithm says that this video is the perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking right now. Check this video out and I bet you you might love