--- author: a16z date: '2026-11-03' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezi-nwe6LlY speaker: a16z tags: - circadian-rhythm - resistance-training - cognitive-performance - sleep-hygiene - supplementation title: Andrew Huberman 访谈：精力管理、日常健康习惯与高强度认知表现 summary: Andrew Huberman 博士做客 a16z 播客，详细拆解了其个人全天日程习惯，包括晨间光照、力量训练协议、NSDR、补充剂搭配与防蓝光机制，并针对创始人和高强度工作者提出了划分核心认知窗口、脱离刺激反应模式及构建长期可持续精力的建议。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: health-wellness area: life-family project: [] people: - Andrew Huberman - Marc Andreessen - Rick Rubin companies_orgs: - a16z products_models: - AG1 - Lovaza media_books: [] status: evergreen --- ### 开场与播客影响 **>>**: 如果你真的认真对待自己和你的工作，你就需要按这种方式来规划你的一天。
Original English If you take yourself and your work really seriously, you need to organize your day that way.
**>>**: 如果让你向大家推荐三件能过上更健康生活的事情，那会是什么？
Original English >> If you had to recommend three things to people to live a healthier life, what would those be?
**>>**: 照我之前说的那套力量训练方案去做。它会彻底改变你的生活。再就是想办法让你能得到的睡眠达到最高质量。
Original English >> Do the weight training protocol I talked about earlier. It will completely change your life. Figure out some way to make the sleep you can get the highest quality sleep.
**>>**: 你昨天吃了什么补充剂或药物吗？
Original English >> Did you take any supplements or medications yesterday?
**>>**: 大量。
Original English >> Loads.
**>>**: [笑声]
Original English >> [laughter]
**>>**: 有没有什么事情是你向别人推荐，但你自己却不太擅长遵守的？
Original English >> What's something you recommend to others but are not that good at following yourself?
**>>**: 我觉得社交媒体这事儿可能是最大的一项。我最近把 X 和 Instagram 移到了一部单独的手机上，然后把那部手机放在一个带锁的箱子里。你没办法靠输密码退出来。
Original English >> I think the social media thing might be the biggest one. I recently moved X and Instagram to a separate phone and then I keep that phone in a lock box. You can't actually code out of it.
**>>**: 我们播客有很多创始人听众。如果要让你精简出三条关于提升认知表现的循证习惯，那会是哪三样？
Original English >> a lot of founders who listen to our podcast. If you had to narrow it down to three pieces of evidence-based habits for cognitive performance, what would those things be?
**>>**: 嗯。
Original English >> Um
**>>**: Huberman 博士，欢迎来到 a16z 节目。
Original English >> Dr. Huberman, welcome to the a16z show.
**>>**: 谢谢。很高兴能来这里。
Original English >> Thank you. Delighted to be here.
**>>**: 你的播客于 21 年 1 月上线，改变了数百万人生活的方式。今天早上我叫醒了儿子。我推迟了一点摄入咖啡因的时间，可能没有你希望的推迟那么多。嗯，还有你出名地让我们机构的创始人 Marc Andreessen 把酒戒了。嗯，我还没做到那一步。嗯，不过我想知道，回想起来，你是否记得有哪一个时刻让你觉得：“天哪，大家不只是在听我说。他们真的因为我说的话而在改变自己的日常习惯。”
Original English >> Your podcast launched in January of '21 and has changed the way millions of people live their lives. This morning I got my son. I delayed my caffeine a little bit, probably not as much as you would like. Um and you famously got our firm's founder Mark Andreessen to stop drinking alcohol. Um I'm not there yet. Um but I'm wondering if looking back you remember a moment where you were like, "Holy cow, people aren't just listening to me. They're like changing their daily habits because of what I say."
**>>**: 嗯，这一路走来真是一段疯狂的历程。我一点都没预料到这一切。嗯，但我很高兴看到大家在为自己的健康采取行动，而且嗯，我不知道该通过说声谢谢来接受，还是该为 Marc 戒酒道歉。我知道他以前很享受[清嗓子]偶尔喝上一杯。我想——
Original English >> Well, it's been a wild ride. I didn't anticipate any of it. Um but I'm delighted that people are doing things for their health and um I don't know whether or not to accept uh by saying thank you or apologize that Mark stopped drinking. I know he enjoyed [clears throat] the occasional drink. I want
**>>**: 对此有点暴躁。
Original English >> grumpy about it.
**>>**: 是啊。呃，我想明确说明一点。数据显示，零摄入比任何量都好。每周两杯大概是非酗酒成年人的上限，而且我认为 Marc 并不是酗酒者。理论上他可以喝两杯。但是当时，嗯，他是说，“不。”你知道的，他某种程度上呃做到了很多人所做的那样，那就是有时候滴酒不沾比只喝一点更容易坚持。我确实认为喝酒是可以带来享受的，如果有人想这么做，只要考虑做一些其他有益的事情就行了。但是——
Original English >> Yeah. Uh well, I want to be very clear. The data say zero is better than any. Two per week is probably the upper limit for uh an adult non-alcoholic and I don't think Mark is alcohol. He could in theory have two drinks. But when when um that he goes, "No." You know, he kind of uh did what many people do, which is sometimes none is easier to stick to than than some. And I do think that alcohol can be enjoyed, and if one wants to do that, just to think about doing some of the other things that can be beneficial. But,
**>>**: [哧鼻一笑]
Original English >> [snorts]
**>>**: 直接回答你的问题，我压根没料到这一切。就像我说的，我很高兴大家在为自己的健康采取措施，在某个时刻我意识到——我心想：“哇，大家真的开始付诸行动了。”我分不清这究竟是因为我们所展示的科学，还是因为我知道这些方案效果极佳。好的一点是，对于这些具体的方案，我并不贪功，因为在大多数情况下，除了极少数例外——比如与缓解压力相关的某些内容——在绝大多数情况下，你知道，这些方案都源自其他人的科学研究。 所以，放眼科学和健康教育领域，嗯，大多数站在公众面前的人都在讲他们自己的科学研究。因此，用这种方式去做，给予了我一定程度的自由。我也必须格外小心，因为我经常在讲其他人的科学成果。嗯，但我热爱学习，我也热爱教学。 所以对我来说，我——没有什么比阅读论文、分享我认为有趣的信息，并且去尝试、看看什么管用更让我开心的了。那些与我亲近的人会告诉你，我这一辈子只要学到了我认为很酷的东西，我就会跑到外面去到处传授，不管别人想不想听。所以，他们只不过是往我面前放了个麦克风，然后我就坐在这儿了。
Original English >> to directly answer your question, I didn't anticipate any of it. As I said, I'm delighted people are taking measures for their health, and at some point I realized I'm like, "Whoa, people are starting to do things." And I couldn't tell whether or not it was because of the science that we were presenting or because the protocols I know work extremely well. The nice thing is I don't take credit for the actual protocols because in most cases, with rare exception, like some things related to stress mitigation, in most cases, you know, the protocols come from other people's science. So, in looking at the fields of science and health education, um most people who've been out there have been talking about their own science. So, doing it this way affords me a certain amount of freedom. I have to be careful, too, because I'm talking about other people's science often. Um but I love to learn and I love to teach. So, for me, I nothing makes me happier than reading papers and sharing what I think is interesting information and trying things out and seeing what works. And the people that have been close to me will tell you that for my whole life, when I've learned something I thought was cool, I'm out there teaching about it, whether people want to listen or not. So, they just kind of stuck a microphone in front of me, and here I am.
### 一日日程拆解：晨间习惯与冥想 **>>**: 太棒了。你对自己的日常方案一直非常透明。嗯，就像我提到的，眼睛晒太阳，推迟摄入咖啡因，还有按天轮换运动，冷水浸泡和桑拿，做瑜伽睡眠（yoga nidra），嗯，摄取各种补充剂概念。嗯，不过也许你可以带我们回顾一下比如昨天的情况。我很好奇。你吃了什么？做了什么锻炼？吃了什么补充剂？你的建议里你遵循了哪些，哪些又没有遵循？
Original English >> Amazing. You've been very transparent about your daily protocols. Um like I mentioned, sun in your eyes, you know, delaying caffeine, but also rotating exercise by day, cold plunge and sauna, doing yoga nidra, um taking over idea of supplements. Um but maybe you can just walk us through like yesterday. I'm curious. What did you eat? What exercises did you do? What supplements did you take? What What of your advice did you follow and what did you not?
**>>**: 完整的一天。那么，我醒来后，像大家一样去洗手间。我——
Original English >> A single day. So, I wake up, I use the bathroom like everybody else. I
**>>**: 你躺在床上时会看手机吗？
Original English >> Do you get on your phone while you're in bed?
**>>**: 不会。
Original English >> No.
**>>**: 好的。
Original English >> Okay.
**>>**: 不看，我睡觉时手机移出房间。要不是我太爱太爱我的 Eight Sleep 了，我都想办法在晚上把屋里的 Wi-Fi 完全关掉。
Original English >> No, phone phones out of the room while I sleep. If I didn't love love love my eight sleep so much, I would figure out a way to have no Wi-Fi on in the house at all at night.
**>>**: 有意思。
Original English >> Interesting.
**>>**: 所以我醒来时，像大家一样昏昏沉沉。我的思绪开始飘向各种地方，你知道，刚醒来时是一团混乱的。我觉得我从来没有哪次醒来大打一个哈欠然后觉得生活真美好。我一醒来就会想：好吧，我得做这个，我得做那个。所以我做的第一件事就是起床，去洗手间，然后这些天来我会去做一个 5 分钟的冥想。我把手机定时 5 分钟。 我做一种非常标准的仅关注呼吸的冥想。 我认为这是一项极其重要的练习，我以前谈论得并不多。嗯，哪怕仅仅是因为它能让你非常清楚地意识到你的大脑即将接收到什么输入。而且它也能让你非常敏锐地意识到我们脑子里能有多么混乱。在与许多从事冥想科学研究的人交流之后——特别是威斯康星大学那帮做过大量大脑成像研究的人——很明显，冥想的真正益处并不来自于让大脑安静下来，而是来自于能够单纯去观察它是多么混乱。 并且把这种观察看作是与所谓的“观察者”稍微分开的东西。我们体内存在着我们认为构成观察者基础的神经回路，对应着他们所说的所有那些“心猿意马”（monkey mind）的东西。但我过去总以为冥想是为了达到一种极其平静的状态。事实证明，它是为了观察混乱。 所以，关于这种练习在实用价值方面的最佳描述是：就像锻炼一样，如果你的腿部产生灼烧感，或者举铁做最后几次重复，那就是触发适应的原因。 对于冥想而言，在意识、专注和觉察方面，我认为就像别人向我描述的那样——这不是我发明的短语——“心灵的乳酸”，就是能够去体验那种混乱，观察它，而不对其作出任何反应。我认为，这正是让你带着对什么是真正有意义的想法或反应、什么不是有意义的反应具备更强觉察力去开启一天生活的原因。 嗯，好的，所以我做那 5 分钟。这些天我发现闹钟响的时候我不会去想“怎么还没结束？怎么还没结束？” 嗯，接着我会让阳光照进眼睛。对此我绝对是虔诚奉行的。有时我会上屋顶，有时我会去散步。
Original English >> So, I woke up, I'm groggy like everybody else. My mind starts going places that are you know, it what I'm it's discombobulated on waking. I I don't think I've ever woken up and just done a big yawn and been like life is so good. I wake up and I think okay, I have this to do, I have that to do. So, the first thing that I do is get up, use the restroom, and then I go do these days I do a 5-minute meditation. I set my phone for 5 minutes. And I do a standard meditation of just breathing. This, I think, is an extremely important practice that I haven't talked a lot about. Um if for no other reason than it gets you very aware of what the input to your brain are about to be. And it also makes you very aware of how chaotic it can be in our minds. And after talking to a number of people who worked on the science of meditation, um in particular folks out at University of Wisconsin who've done a bunch of the brain imaging, it's very clear that the real benefits of meditation come from not quieting the mind, but from being able to just observe how chaotic it is. And see that as something slightly separate from the quote unquote observer. And we have circuits that we think underlie the observer versus all the the monkey mind stuff as they call it. But I always thought that meditation was about achieving a really peaceful state. Turns out it's about observing the chaos. And so, the best way I can describe this practice in terms of its utility is just as with exercise, if you get a burn in your legs or the final repetitions of lifting weights, that's what triggers the adaptation. With meditation in terms of consciousness and and focus and awareness, I think the lactate of the mind as it was described to me, not so I didn't come up with that phrase. The lactate of the mind is to be able to experience that chaos, observe it, and not do anything with it. That's what allows you to move into your day with, I think, uh, more awareness of what is a meaningful thought or reaction and what isn't. Um, okay, so I do that 5 minutes. The These days I find the buzzer goes off without me, you know, when is this over? When is this over? Um, and then I get sunlight in my eyes. I I'm absolutely religious about that. Sometimes I go up on my roof, sometimes I go for a walk.
**>>**: 嗯，你昨天在家吗？
Original English >> Um, were you home yesterday?
**>>**: 我在家的，是的。
Original English >> I was, yeah.
**>>**: 好的。
Original English >> Okay.
**>>**: 是的，我通常会随身带点水，喝点水，让阳光照射眼睛。今天我是在酒店醒来的。早上我面朝东，所以感觉很棒，真的看到了日出。但不管是多云还是阴天，我第一件事都是让阳光照进眼睛。如果我醒来的时候离日出还早，我有一台 10,000 勒克斯的人工光源，早上煮咖啡或者忙自己的事时我就会呆在那个灯前。 然后，如果我打算锻炼，我会马上喝咖啡因。我觉得这是我一直试图讲清楚、但并不总是讲得很清楚的一点。如果我要运动，我需要咖啡因，所以我连 30 分钟都不等。我会直接喝咖啡因，所以我喝马黛茶（yerba mate），这已经是我很长一段时间以来的首选咖啡因来源了。 呃， 然后我就去锻炼。我的锻炼流程非常简单，我可以直接分享出来，因为我发现它不仅对我非常有益，而且对跟我一起训练过的女性、男性以及各年龄段的人都非常有益。我已经遵循它 35 年了，我认为这是时间利用最高效、最有效的锻炼计划。
Original English >> Yeah, and I I take some water with me usually, drink some water, get some sunlight in my eyes. Today I woke up in a hotel. I was facing east in the morning, so it was great, got to actually see the sunrise. But cloudy day, overcast day, I'm getting sunlight in my eyes first thing. If I wake up long before the sun is out, I have a 10,000 lux artificial light, and I'll get in front of that thing just as I make coffee in the morning or or do my thing. I then, if I'm going to exercise, I drink caffeine right away. I think this is something that I've tried to be clear about, but hasn't always been clear. If I'm an exercise, I need caffeine, so I'm not waiting even 30 minutes. I'm going to drink caffeine, so I drink yerba mate, which is my preferred source of caffeine, for over a long time now. Uh, and then I exercise. And my exercise routine is very simple, and I might just share it because I've found that it's been very beneficial not just for me, but for uh, women I've trained with, uh, men, people of all ages. I've followed it for 35 years, and I think it's the most time efficient and effective exercise program.
### 运动方案：力量训练与心肺训练体系 **>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 嗯，而且它非常直接了当。每周 3 天举铁，每周 2 到 3 天做某种所谓的有氧运动。 呃，有氧运动我先解释一下。 嗯，选择一种能安全地让你的心率飙升到非常、非常高水平的方式。 所以，可以是划船机，也可以是风阻自行车（Airdyne bike）——就是你在蹬车的同时双臂配合推拉的那种。 也可以是跑步。选择一种你能做到接近全力以赴而不会弄伤自己的项目。这是一件大事，特别是现在我已经 50 岁了。我对自己从来没有受过大伤感到相当自豪，我在 50 岁感觉棒极了，很大程度上是因为我“没做什么”。很多人一直在告诉我他们做了多少事情，而我靠的是我没做的事情。我从不会仅仅因为别人挑战我，就跳进别人的训练计划里。那就是你会弄伤自己的方式。 而且嗯，我选择那些对我来说感觉合适的事情。骑自行车对我来说感觉不好。跑步和风阻自行车感觉不错。所以，热身一分钟，在我这里就是轻松踩脚踏板，然后全力冲刺 20 秒，休息 10 秒，重复八次。你就搞定了。那就是一次有氧训练。你能达到最大心率，或者接近最大心率。 这是属于最大摄氧量（VO2 max）类型的训练，而且用时极短。好的。
Original English >> Um, and it's really straightforward. 3 days a week lifting weights, two to three days a week doing some sort of, quote unquote, cardio. Uh, the cardio, I'll just explain first. Um, something where you get your heart rate way, way up, safely. So, could be the rower, could be the Airdyne bike, the one with the you know, push pull with the arms while you're pedaling. Could be running. Pick something that you can go close to max effort without hurting yourself. This is a really big deal, especially now that I'm 50. It's like I I feel quite proud of the fact that I've never had a major injury and I feel great at 50 mostly because of what I didn't do. A lot of people are telling me all the things they did do. It's all the things I didn't do. I never hopped on someone else's workout just cuz I was challenged. That's how you hurt yourself. And um and I picked things that felt right to me. Cycling doesn't feel good to me. Running and the air dyne bike do. So, warm up for a minute pedal easy in my case, then go 20 seconds all out effort, 10 seconds rest, repeat that eight times. You're done. That's one cardio workout. You're getting max heart rate, close to max heart rate. This is VO2 max type stuff and you it's so fast. Okay.
**>>**: 那么，昨天是周日。周日练什么？
Original English >> So, yesterday was Sunday. What is Sunday?
**>>**: 那么，第一天，对某些人来说可以落在周日或周一，这无所谓。但是一周的第一天我用阻力训练练腿。 耗时大约一小时。这是一周里最艰苦的训练。如果我下半辈子每周只能做一次锻炼，那就是这套。 好的。原因有很多。最大的肌肉群，对激素和新陈代谢的全身性影响，等等等等。 练腿日之后，我通常会彻底休息一天。在那些日子里，我通常会尝试做一些冷热交替浴来恢复。嗯，具体细节我们可以再聊。然后根据我的恢复情况，可能只休息一天，也可能休息两天。然后我会针对躯干做某种推拉训练。 也就是做一些胸推，做一些肩推，引体向上或者如果有人做不了下拉就做下拉动作，以及某种划船动作。 如果有人体态不好，或者发现这种情况——很多时候男性的肩膀会开始变宽但他们不练脖子——可能还要做一些颈部训练。首先，这看起来有点不成比例，其次他们就会开始出现肩袖问题。训练颈部对于整个肩带的稳定性非常重要。所以—— 嗯，然后我会休息一天，接着我会做一些手臂、小腿、腹肌之类的小肌群训练。所以那是三个单独的举铁日。
Original English >> So, day one, this could fall on a Sunday or a Monday for someone, doesn't matter. But, the first day of the week I train my legs with resistance training. Takes about an hour. That's the hardest work of the week. And if I were to only do one workout per week for the rest of my life, it would be that. Okay. For lots of reasons. Largest musculature, systemic effects on hormones and metabolism, etc. etc. After leg day, I typically take the day completely off. I'll try to do some sauna cold alternation on those days for recovery. Um we can talk details there. Then, depending on how well I've recovered, it might be just one day off, it might be two days off. Then I do some sort of push pull thing for the torso. So, some chest presses, some shoulder presses, a pull up or pull pull down type thing if someone can't do pull downs, and some sort of row. Maybe some stuff for the neck if somebody has bad posture or they're finding this often times men will will their shoulders will start start getting wider and they're not training their neck. First of all, it looks kind of a disproportionate, but then they'll start getting rotator cuff stuff. Training the neck is very help is very important for stability of the entire, you know, shoulder girdle. So, um and then I'll take a day off and then I'll do um some arms, calves, abs type you know, smaller body parts. So, those are three separate weight training days.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 它们全都遵循同样的方法，而我认为这正是大家出现严重偏差的地方，不过数据和网上听到的内容终于开始跟上来了。 你可以选择在自行车上热身几分钟，或者做几个开合跳，但我建议做一组轻重量组。也就是第一项动作只做 10 到 12 次极轻重量，纯粹是为了促进血液循环。然后第二个动作，或者说第二组，不好意思，是一组中等重量组。也就是你大概能做 10 次的重量，你只做 3 次。 你只是在让神经系统为承受更重的负荷做好准备。然后你做两组正式组，中间大概间隔 3 分钟、4 分钟的休息，这个休息时间很长，但那些正式组是保持完美动作规格、做到暂时性肌肉力竭的全力以赴的组。只做两组，仅此两组。 所以股四头肌可以是腿屈伸，然后你再换到别的动作，某种你能安全完成的动作。深蹲、前蹲、倒蹬机。我是说，有那么多的变体，对吧？某种复合动作，然后针对腘绳肌也是同样的做法。这里的关键在于：轻重量组、中等重量组（次数远少于你用中等重量能完成的次数），然后是两组高强度的正式组。 记下你做了什么，在每一次训练中要么增加重量，要么增加重复次数。 对于我刚才描述的每一个动作，无论哪个部位，我都这么做。最终每个身体部位做两到三个动作。因此总训练量非常低。练完之后，即使是练腿日，你离开时会觉得虽然不是完全焕然一新，但你绝不会感到被压垮。
Original English >> All of them follow the same approach and and this is where I think people go badly wrong, but the data and what you're hearing online is starting to finally catch up. You could warm up for a couple minutes on the bike or some jumping jacks if you wanted, but I recommend doing one light set. So, 10 or 12 repetitions very light just to get blood flowing for the first movement. Then the second exercise or the second set, excuse me, is a moderate set. So, a set that you probably could do 10 repetitions, you do three. You're just preparing the nervous system for the heavier load. Then you do two work sets space maybe 3 minutes, 4 minutes rest in between, which is long, but those work sets are all out work sets in perfect form taken to momentary muscular failure. Two two two sets only. So, this might be a leg extension for the quads and then you would move to something else, some sort of movement you can do safely. A squat, a front squat, a leg press. I mean, there's so many variations, right? Some compound movement and then something the same thing for the hamstrings. The point here is that it's light set, medium set, many fewer reps than you could do even with the medium set, then hard work for two sets. Write down what you did and either increase weight or increase repetitions every single workout. And I do this for every single thing I just described regardless of body part. It ends up being two exercises per body part, maybe three. So, the total volume of work is very low. You leave these workouts even like day feeling not completely rejuvenated, but you're not crushed.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 你的恢复非常快。你的神经系统不会承受那么大的负担，而且你的进步速度惊人。一位我向她推荐过这个方案的女性——她曾是 D1 级别运动员，踢了很多年足球——前几天来找我，她说：“我不敢相信这效果这么好。这只有我以前训练量的三分之一。” 嗯，你可以在这些单组中投入更多精力。所以我可以就这个话题一直聊下去，但总之在一周的某个时间，我想办法做那大约 6 分钟的——结果证明就是大约 6 分钟——全力 20 秒加休息 10 秒的训练。 然后我再找一天做某种长距离徒步。过去是一段慢跑。现在我喜欢穿上加重背心或者背上背包去徒步，心率提上来，稍微带点喘气。如果我真的雄心勃勃，而且每晚睡眠充足，我也可能会在周中加一次 20 到 30 分钟的跑步。但是那三次抗阻力量训练，就能让大多数人在身体重塑、力量方面达到他们想要的效果，不仅能抵消随着年龄增长带来的肌肉流失和力量下降，还能在体态和灵活性方面感觉好得多。当然，你随时可以做拉伸，但你完全可以在晚上看电视之类的时候做。这就是那一套框架。我已经坚持了 35 年。每一个用过的人都对它的简短、最重要的是它的成效感到无比震撼，而且它很有趣。当你期待着那 45 到 60 分钟高强度的苦练时，它很有趣。它其实开始变成一种享受。
Original English >> Your recovery is very fast. Your nervous system isn't as taxed and you make progress at an at an amazing rate. A woman that I suggested this to who is a who was a D1 athlete who soccer at you know, played soccer for years, came to me the other day and she's like, "I can't believe this works so well. It's it's a third of the volume I was doing before." Um you can just put more into these individual sets. So, I could go on and on about this, but then somewhere in the week I find a way to do the the 6-minute turns out to be about about 6 minutes of the you know, the 20 seconds all out 10 second rest. And I find another day to do some sort of long hike. It used to be a jog. Nowadays, I like to, you know, throw on a weight vest or a or just a backpack and hike um where my heart rate's up and I'm I'm breathing a bit. And if I'm really ambitious and I'm getting enough sleep every night, I might do also a 20 to 30-minute run in the middle of the week. But those three weight workouts will get most people what they want in terms of body recomposition, strength, and not just offsetting muscle loss and strength with age, but feeling much better posturally, mobility-wise. And of course, you can always stretch, but you can do that while you watch TV in the evening or something. So, that's the kind of framework of that. I've been doing that for 35 years. Everyone I've given it to is positively shocked by the brevity, the uh the results, most importantly, and the fact that, you know, it it's fun. When you when you are looking forward to, you know, just a really 45 to 60 minutes of hard work, it's it's fun. It actually starts to become a pleasure to do.
### 饮食习惯与个体耐受性 **>>**: 好的，昨天是练腿日。那么练腿之后发生了什么？
Original English >> Okay, yesterday was leg day. So, what happened after leg day?
**>>**: 嗯，练完腿之后，我摄入了一些淀粉和水果。
Original English >> Um after legs, I uh ingested some starches and fruit.
**>>**: 好的。
Original English >> Okay.
**>>**: 在做完力量训练之后，如果你像我描述的那样练得很狠，你需要补充糖原。有人会说：“嗯，你又没有耗尽所有的糖原。”但训练后摄入一些淀粉是一个好主意。
Original English >> After you weight train, if you train hard the way I described, you need to replenish glycogen. People say, "Well, you didn't you didn't deplete all your glycogen." Ingesting some starches after you train is a good idea.
**>>**: 你吃了什么？
Original English >> did you have?
**>>**: 我吃了——嗯，我训练得非常刻苦，而且我热爱吃东西，所以我吃了香蕉、蓝莓，吃了几勺乳清蛋白粉，吃了一些燕麦片，还吃了一些加了黄油和盐的酸种酵母吐司，因为在我看来，如果某个东西上面抹了黄油，你就必须得撒盐。嗯， 然后几个小时后，大概 3 个小时后，我吃了一顿标准正餐，也就是我的正常午餐，包括——某种肉类，要么是牛肉要么是鸡肉。嗯，我不是特别喜欢鱼，除非是比如黄鳍金枪鱼（ahi tuna），而那东西平时大部分时间都不太好弄到。 嗯，还有一些蔬菜。我非常坚信膳食纤维的价值，但我想强调一个我认为探讨得不够充分的观点，那就是许多人会因为某些纤维食物而出现胃肠不适。 我认为非常重要的一点是，大家要找到对身体有益、同时吃的时候以及吃完之后自己感觉良好的食物。举例来说，你是看不到我吃西兰花的。它让我感觉不太舒服。不管我怎么细嚼慢咽，它都消化不好。 嗯，所以不仅是我一个人这样。嗯，有些食物像洋葱会产生组胺。
Original English >> I had a Well, I I I trained really hard, so I had uh and I love to eat, so I had banana, blueberry, I had a couple scoops of whey protein, I had some oatmeal, and I had some sourdough toast with butter and salt on it cuz if something has butter on it, you got to salt it, too, um is my opinion. Um and then a few hours later, maybe 3 hours later, I had a sort of standard meal, which would be my normal lunch, which would be um some piece of meat, either beef or chicken. Um I'm not a big fan of fish unless it's, you know, like an ahi tuna, and that's kind of hard to come by most days. Um and some vegetable. I I I'm a big believer in fiber, but I want to make a point that I think doesn't get discussed enough, which is that many people get gastric distress from certain fibrous foods. It's very important I think that people find foods that are good for them, but that they feel good eating and after they eat. So, for instance, you're not going to see me eating broccoli. It makes me feel kind of not well. It doesn't digest well no matter how much I chew it this and that. Um so, I I'm not alone in this. Um there's some foods like onions that generate hist- histamines.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 嗯，所以有些人吃完某些食物后就是感觉不舒服。你必须去尝试，看看什么适合你。而真正做到这一点的唯一方法，就是在短时间内开始尝试单一成分的食物。好的，就只吃点西兰花。你可以加点橄榄油或黄油，对吧？只看看管不管用。如果大家总是在吃三明治、炖菜、披萨、蛋奶酥和千层面，你就搞不清楚什么对你合适、什么不合适。因此，养成真正健康的饮食习惯、找到你热爱的食物并拥有大量选择，很大程度上取决于弄清楚你可以吃什么，并且吃的时候以及吃完之后感觉非常好。
Original English >> Um and so, some people just don't feel good after eating certain foods. You have to experiment and see what works for you. And the only way to do that really is for a short while to start experimenting with single ingredient foods. All right, just having a some broccoli. You can put some olive oil or butter on it, right? Just seeing what works. What if you people are constantly eating sandwiches and stews and pizzas and soufflés and lasagnas, you don't know what what works for you and what doesn't. So, a lot of developing really healthy eating habits with food with foods that you love and having a lot of choices is to figure out what you can eat and feel really good eating after you eat as well.
**>>**: 好，那你午餐吃了什么蛋白质？
Original English >> Okay, so what protein did you have for lunch?
**>>**: 我吃了牛肉。
Original English >> I had beef.
**>>**: 牛肉，好的。
Original English >> Beef, okay.
**>>**: 我吃了一些，就是一些烤牛排。在我这里，我吃了切片黄瓜和番茄，还吃了一些米饭。
Original English >> I had some just some grilled steak. I had In my case, uh sliced cucumbers and tomatoes and I had some rice as well.
**>>**: 有甜点吗？
Original English >> Any dessert?
**>>**: 嗯，顺便说一下，我是橄榄油的忠实拥趸，所以我吃了一些橄榄油。嗯，没有，我一般不太喜欢甜食。如果我吃甜食，通常是 100% 纯黑巧克力，那其实很乏味而且有点书呆子气，但你——你慢慢会培养出对它的嗜好。嗯，我差不多对甜食失去了食欲。但我没有失去对脂肪的食欲。
Original English >> Um well, and I I'm a big fan of olive oil, so I had some olive oil. Um no, I I don't tend to like sweets that much. If I have sweets, it's generally 100% chocolate, which is really boring and kind of nerdy, but you you develop a taste for it. Um I sort of lost my appetite for sweets. I have not lost my appetite for fats.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 所以对我来说，犒劳自己就像是来上一大块品质绝佳的帕尔马森奶酪。
Original English >> So, to me a treat is like a chunk of really really good Parmesan cheese.
**>>**: 你最近吃过的最放纵的东西是什么？
Original English >> What's the most indulgent thing you've had recently?
**>>**: 天哪。 嗯，这听起来会非常健康，但我前几天吃了一块绝佳的肉眼牛排。嗯，因为我不喜欢甜食也不喝酒，放纵对我来说就像是——
Original English >> Gosh. Um it's it's going to sound so healthy, but I I had an amazing ribeye the other day. Um I'm not a because I don't like sweets and I don't drink alcohol, indulgent for me would be like
**>>**: 披萨？
Original English >> pizza?
**>>**: 披萨我爱吃。披萨我很爱，但我对披萨非常挑剔。所以在东海岸，你知道，在纽约，我随便进一家街头小店买上一两角。而在西海岸，东湾的 Arizmendi's 披萨几乎是唯一能达到我心目中“足够像东海岸风格”门槛的披萨。 所以，是的，我会吃那个。如果我要吃冰淇淋，那会是巧克力碎冰淇淋。 嗯，我在想我还有没有别的放纵。我得说清楚，这并不是因为我所谓“沉迷于感觉良好”。那些东西确实会让我感觉糟糕。我只是——我确实认为在运动和睡眠等方面把事情做对会产生复合效应。但我得说这句话：如果我连续一段时间吃得极其干净，我的力量实际上会变弱，幸福感会降低，总体的进步也会变慢。所以每隔一段时间，用几片意大利辣香肠披萨来冲击一下我的营养摄入，看起来确实是一件很棒的事。 可颂面包，那是另一件。任何带黄油的——但是脂肪和淀粉的结合确实正合我意。
Original English >> Pizza I love. Pizza I love, but I'm very particular about pizza. So, on the East Coast, you know, in New York, I'll get a slice at just any kind of walk-in place or two. On the West Coast, Arizmendi's pizza in the East Bay is pretty much the only thing that meets my threshold for East Coast enough like pizza. So, yeah, I do that. I If I were going to have ice cream, it would be chocolate chip ice cream. Um and I'm trying to think if I have any kind of indulgences. I should be very clear, it's not because I'm quote-unquote addicted to feeling good. Those things make me feel bad. I I simply I do think there's a compound effect of of of doing things right in terms of exercise and sleep, etc. But, I will say this, if I've ever eaten really clean for a while, I actually am less strong, less happy, I make less progress in general. And so, every once in a while, like spiking my nutrition with a couple of slices of pepperoni pizza is is seems just like a really good thing. Croissants, that's the other thing. Anything buttery and But, the combination of fat and starch is really what it does it for me.
**>>**: 如果你说你不喜欢可颂，我都不会信任你了。
Original English >> I I wasn't going to trust you if you said you didn't like a croissant, so.
**>>**: 可颂太好吃了。嗯，所以那就是我吃的。
Original English >> Croissants are amazing. Um So, so that was what I ate.
### 下午与晚间：NSDR、落日与光线管理 **>>**: 下午、晚餐、睡觉呢？
Original English >> Afternoon, dinner, sleep.
**>>**: 是的，所以如果我睡得特别好，我就不睡午觉，也不做任何瑜伽睡眠，但通常我睡眠不足。我想大家听到这个会很震惊，觉得“你不是那个讲睡眠的专家吗？”我和许多人一样，嗯，很难足够早入睡。好的。所以下午我会做 10 到 30 分钟的非睡眠深休（NSDR）瑜伽睡眠。我认为这是一种在不产生睡眠惯性（sleep inertia）的情况下恢复脑力和体力的绝佳方式。事实上，正是你们自己的 Marc Andreessen 喜欢在网上拿我开涮。这挺有意思的，在 X 上大家都以为我们是仇人，但我知道那是友好的。 嗯，我也很乐意接受。但我曾经说过，瑜伽睡眠——你静躺着，深度放松身体，同时特意让头脑保持清醒——我说它不是午睡。它不会引发睡眠惯性。它比午睡更好。它能教你在半夜醒来时如何重新入睡。然后 Marc 当然就发帖说：“这就是午睡。”
Original English >> Yeah, so if I've slept really well, I don't take a nap or do any kind of yoga nidra, but typically I don't get enough sleep. I think people are shocked to hear this, like, "Aren't you the sleep guy?" It I, like many humans, um struggle with getting to sleep early enough. Okay. So, I do a 10- to 30-minute non-sleep deep rest yoga nidra in the afternoon. I I think it's a wonderful thing to restore mental and physical vigor without generating sleep inertia. Actually, your very own Mark Andreessen, who likes to take a swipes at me online. It's kind of funny, on X people think that we're enemies, but it I recognize it as friendly. Um and I invite it. But, I once said, you know, it it yoga nidra, where you lie still, you deeply relax your body and you keep intentionally keep your mind awake. I said it's not a nap. It doesn't induce sleep inertia. It's better than a nap. It teaches you to fall back asleep if you wake up in the middle of the night and Mark of course wrote, "It's a nap."
**>>**: [笑声]
Original English >> [laughter]
**>>**: 所以，嗯，它不是午睡，Marc。嗯，但我很欣赏这个玩笑。它非常不同，实际上有一些新出现的证据表明，在这些非睡眠深休状态下，大脑的某些局部区域正在经历深层睡眠，甚至可能释放生长激素，这非常有趣。嗯，所以我对这些所谓的入睡前状态或介于睡眠与清醒之间的临界状态非常感兴趣。这也是对心灵的一种有趣探索。通常，做完之后我对想要做的事情会变得很清晰。现在，我应该提一下，练完腿之后，我读了论文，工作了一会儿。周日我也吃了晚餐。 嗯，然后在傍晚时分，我坚持要在太阳下山前去散个步。如果没时间而且正好在通电话，我就会走到外面，如果能看就看着落日，或者在阴天就朝着太阳的方向看。这套做法其实是我当年大学暑期在离这儿不远的斯坦福睡眠实验室工作时学到的。那是在眼睛里发现能够感知环境光并向大脑生物钟发送信号的神经元之前。 那是在 90 年代中期。那些细胞直到 2000 年代初才被发现，而有趣的是，睡眠实验室的所有员工都会从地下室走出来——[清嗓子]去看日落。当时我问：“我们为什么要这么做？”他们说：“噢，这能设定你的昼夜节律。这是众所周知的。理想情况下，你早上也该这么做。”我就是从那时起开始这个习惯的。 所以，这些都是严肃的科学家，有霍华德·休斯医学研究所的研究员，有美国国家科学院的院士。现在我们弄明白了所有的机制，但我指出这一点是因为我认为很多人觉得你必须先把所有的机制科学都搞清楚。有些做法对我们明显有益，而机制数据是后来才补上的。所以我尽量在下午做这个。有时候我会端着一杯茶站在外面。我确实会在下午 2:00 左右停止摄入咖啡因。你知道，那差不多是最晚的时间了。否则我确实会难以入睡。然后—— 回到屋里后通常再干一会儿活。然后到了晚上我会吃某种晚餐。对于晚餐，我得说如果是做阻力训练的日子，通常晚餐我都挺饿的。嗯，我会吃点类似于午餐的东西，但也不完全一样。嗯，如果是没运动的日子，它往往是一顿更小的分量。通常最后一餐不会吃那么多蛋白质。所以我的最后一口食物通常在 7:30 到 8:00 左右，但我对此并不死板，因为我往往在晚上 11:00 左右睡觉。 睡前的最后一个小时，我就是调暗灯光。我只是想让这一天平缓过度下来。嗯，我确实会把手机收起来，因为我发现深夜非常容易陷入发短信聊天。
Original English >> [laughter] >> So, um it's not a nap, Mark. Um but I appreciate the joke. It's very different and in fact, there's some emerging evidence that during these non-sleep deep rest states that pockets of the brain are experiencing deep sleep and maybe even growth hormone release, which is pretty interesting. Um so, I'm very interested in these so-called hypnagogic or kind of um liminal states between sleep and awake. It's also just kind of an interesting exploration of the mind. Usually, I come out of that having some clarity about what I want to do. Now, I should mention after after I train legs, I I read papers and I worked. I I should I I ate dinner on Sunday. >> Um and then in the later afternoon, I make it a point to get a walk before the sun goes down. Or I if I don't have time and I'm on a phone call, I'll just step outside and watch the sun go down if I can or just look in the direction of the sun in the overcast sky. I actually learned this practice from the sleep lab at Stanford down the road from here when I worked there during a summer in college. This was before the discovery of the neurons in the eye that that register ambient light and signal to the brain's circadian clock. So, this is in the mid-90s. Those cells weren't discovered till the early 2000s and what's interesting is all the staff of the of the sleep laboratory would go outside from the basement >> [clears throat] >> and would look at the sunset. And I was like, "Why are we doing this?" And they said, "Oh, this sets your circadian rhythm. It's well known. Ideally, you do it in the morning as well." And that's when I started the practice. And so, these are serious scientists with Howard Hughes investigators, members of the National Academy. Now, we understand all the mechanisms, but I point that out because I think a number of people think that you need all the mechanistic science worked out first. There are certain practices that are are so very clearly good for us where the mechanistic data come later. So, I try and do that in the afternoon. Sometimes, I'll stand outside with a you know, a cup of tea or something. I do stop drinking caffeine about 2:00 p.m. You know, that's about the latest. Otherwise, I do have trouble falling asleep. And then usually it's a bit more work when I go inside. And then in the evening I eat some sort of dinner. And for dinner, I have to say if it's a day when I resistance train, generally I'm pretty hungry for dinner. Um and I'll do something kind of like lunch, but not exactly the same. Um and if it's uh a day when I didn't exercise, it tends to be a kind of smaller meal. And usually not as much protein for that last meal. And so my last bite of food is somewhere around typically around 7:30, 8:00, but I'm not nuts about that because I tend to go to sleep somewhere around 11:00 p.m. And the last hour before sleep, I'm just dimming the lights. I'm just kind of trying to transition my day down. Um I do put away the phone because I find it's very easy to get into text conversations late at night.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 嗯，我确实喜欢用电脑到相当晚。而且我——有时我会娱乐一下看点东西，但这些天我大多只是——
Original English >> Um and I do like to be on the computer till fairly late. And I sometimes I'll get some entertainment in and watching something, but these days I mostly just
**>>**: 那么你会戴防蓝光眼镜之类的吗？
Original English >> So you do like the blue light glasses or anything?
**>>**: 我戴。我有红镜片的眼镜。我们跟 Roka 合作设计了其中的一些。我认为这里有一件重要的事情，这也是源于 Elon 和 Marc 在网上的对话，当时嗯，我想——噢不，是 Alex 和 Marc。Elon 也插了进来，你知道 Marc 说：“呃，我因为 Huberman 戒了酒，但是嗯，但我绝不会去搞什么防蓝光……”那就是他说的原话。所以——
Original English >> I do. I have the red lens glasses. We designed some of those with Roka. I think Here's an important thing that also born out of a conversation between Elon and Mark online where um I think Oh no, it was Alex and Mark. And Elon jumped in you know, that Mark said uh I I stopped drinking because of Huberman, but um but I'm not going to do any of that blue light That's what That's what he said. So
**>>**: 听起来确实像他。
Original English >> That sounds like him.
**>>**: 他的原话。嗯，在对夜间蓝光的敏感度方面，人与人之间存在巨大的个体差异。嗯，而且我认为很多人以为光线必须看起来是蓝色的，但高亮度的光、白光、黄光都含有短波长光线。所以当我们谈论蓝光时，指的是这个。 嗯，有些人对它非常敏感。它会使他们的皮质醇飙升。甚至低至 100 勒克斯的光线——透过闭着的眼皮看那是非常微弱的光——都会破坏他们的睡眠。其他人则不那么敏感。我们还不清楚这其中的机制。这似乎与一个人的眼睛颜色深浅没有关系。我的眼睛只是对光线非常敏感，所以如果晚上照了很多头顶的亮光，我就会难以入睡，或者睡着后半夜醒来。因此如果我调暗灯光或者戴上助眠眼镜，我感觉会好得多。所以我认为人确实分两种。我们并不真正清楚背后的原因，但无论如何——
Original English >> his words. Um there is huge variation in terms of people's sensitivity to blue light at night. Um and I think a lot of people think the lights have to appear blue, but um bright lights, uh white lights, yellow lights have short wavelength light. So that's what we're talking about talking about when we're talking about blue. Um some people are very sensitive to it. It spikes their cortisol. It disrupts their sleep even as little as 100 lux, which is very dim through closed eyelids. Other people are less sensitive to it. We don't know how that works. It doesn't seem to be related to how light or dark somebody's eyes are. My eyes are just very sensitive to light so that at night if I get a lot of bright overhead light, I have trouble falling asleep or I fall asleep and and up in the middle of the night. So if I dim the lights or I work wind down glasses, I feel much better. So, I think there is kind of a split. We don't really know what the underlying reasons are, but in any case,
**>>**: 上次配隐形眼镜时，他们给我推销了防蓝光隐形眼镜，我丈夫说那让我的眼睛看起来很怪异，但我当时想：“我才不要换回——”
Original English >> I was upsold on blue light blocking contact lenses. The last time I got my contacts prescribed and my husband says it makes my eyes look freaky, but I was like, "I'm not going back to
**>>**: 所以它们防蓝光——
Original English >> So, they blue light blocking
**>>**: 是的。白天的皮肤和眼睛需要一些短波长光线，比如用来生成维生素 D。我的意思是，紫外线并不是全盘皆坏。我应该提一下，当太阳在天空中位置较低时，紫外线指数是非常低的。也就是说，你可以直视日出或日落而不会伤到眼睛的原因之一，是因为存在大气瑞利散射现象，短波长（包括紫外线等）被过滤掉了。当太阳高挂头顶时，它极其明亮。是的。直视它是痛苦的。那是因为有更多的短波长光线到达你的眼睛。所以，如果人们担心紫外线暴露，早晨和傍晚或午后的光线暴露其紫外线水平是非常低的，或者你也可以直接查看紫外线指数。你知道，通过——
Original English >> Yeah. You need some short wavelength light during the day on your skin and in your eyes to generate vitamin D, for instance. I mean, UV light is not not across the board bad. I should mention that when the sun is low in the sky, the UV index is very low. I mean, one of the reasons that you can look at the rising sun or the setting sun and it doesn't hurt your eyes is because there's this phenomenon of atmospheric Rayleigh scattering where the short wavelengths include like UV are filtered out. When the sun is overhead, it's extremely bright. Yeah. It's painful to look at. That's because you're getting a lot more of the the shorter wavelength light reaching your eyes. So, if people are concerned about UV exposure, morning and evening or late afternoon light exposure is very low UV or you can just look at the UV index. It's you know, with a
**>>**: 确实。
Original English >> Totally.
**>>**: 谷歌搜一下之类的。
Original English >> Google search or something.
### 补充剂清单与作用机制 **>>**: 你昨天吃了什么补充剂或药物吗？
Original English >> Did you take any supplements or medications yesterday?
**>>**: 大量。
Original English >> Loads.
**>>**: [笑声]
Original English >> [laughter]
**>>**: 不过快点列一下。
Original English >> But quickly take them off.
**>>**: 好的。好。 这不是推销。我想非常明确地说明这一点。这是我所做的事情，而且大多数这些东西我从 2012 年起就一直在做了。大家——所以我确实每天喝两次 AG1。我通常在早上紧挨着当天的第一餐前喝一次，晚上喝一次。大家会说：“好吧，那是因为他们是播客的赞助商。” 我就是像我描述的那样使用它，把它当作覆盖基础营养的东西，如果我没有摄入足够的水果和蔬菜之类，我可以填补任何缺口。我喜欢它。 嗯，所以我这样做已经很久了。远在我知道播客是什么之前。我吃鱼油。 我非常坚信高剂量的 EPA Omega-3。你知道，关于 Omega-6 与 Omega-3 的比例一直存在整个争论。
Original English >> Sure. Right. So, this is not a promotional. I want to be very clear. This is what I've done and what I've actually been doing most of these things since 2012. People So, I do take AG1 twice a day. I do that in the morning usually right before my first meal of the day and in the evening. People say, "Okay, that that's cuz they're they're sponsor of the podcast." I use it just as I describe it as it covered nutritional basis where if I didn't eat enough fruits and vegetables or something, I can cover any gaps. I like it. Um So, I've been doing that for a very long time. Long before I knew what a podcast was. I take fish oil. I'm a big believer in high doses of EPA omega-3s. You know, there's this whole debate about you know, omega-6 to omega-3 ratios.
**>>**: 嗯哼。这些天我发现每天获取 1 克以上 EPA（不仅是 1 克以上鱼油）最高效的方法，是服用 Lovaza，这是一种处方级 Omega-3。同时所有的重金属都被去除了，所以你不用担心那个。嗯，而且它有仿制药版本，所以现在相当便宜了。所以—— 我认为大家可能想服用 Lovaza，也可能不想，但我服用 Lovaza。我补充一些维生素 D。我服用 3,000 到 5,000 个单位的维生素 D3。 嗯，我早上的补充剂摄入还包括——我其实根据自己的血液检查结果，相信某些草本补充剂。我服用 400 毫克的一种叫做东革阿里（Tongkat Ali）的东西，这是一种印度尼西亚的草药。有几种不同的版本，但我吃东革阿里，已知它有助于促使所谓的性激素结合球蛋白与睾酮解离，从而稍微释放出游离睾酮。男性和女性都可以服用。 嗯，我与销售它的公司没有任何财务关系。嗯，所以我吃 Solaray 的版本。它也是最便宜的。 嗯，我做这个。我吃——我吃一种叫做 P5P 的东西，它是维生素 B6 的衍生物。我吃 50 毫克。这是一种——我吃它是为了轻微降低催乳素（prolactin）。我没有高催乳素，但我那么做是因为在早晨，你希望放大皮质醇以及所谓的儿茶酚胺——也就是多巴胺、去甲肾上腺素、肾上腺素那种环境。 嗯，它能对此有一点帮助。 嗯，再看看。 嗯，还有什么？噢，我吃 N-乙酰半胱氨酸（NAC）。
Original English >> Mhm. These days I find the most efficient way to get above a gram of EPA per day and not just above a gram of fish oil is to take Lovaza, which is a prescription omega-3. It also all the heavy metals have been extracted, so you don't have to worry about that. Um and there are generic versions of it, so it's pretty inexpensive now. So, I I think people might want to take Lovaza. They might not, but I take Lovaza. I take some um vitamin D. I take 3 to, you know, 5,000 units of vitamin D3. Um and my morning supplement uh ingestion includes I actually I I actually believe in some of the herbal supplements uh just based on my blood work. I take 400 mg of something called tonga ali, which is a Indonesian um uh ideal There are a couple different versions, but I take tonga ali, which um it's known to help the unbinding of something called sex hormone binding globulin from testosterone, so it frees up testosterone a bit. Men and women can take this. Um I don't have any financial relationship to the companies that sell it. Um so, I take the Solaray version. It's also the the least expensive. Um So, and I I do that. I take um I take something called P5P, which is a vitamin B6 derivative. I take 50 mg of that. It's a I take that to slightly reduce prolactin. I don't have high prolactin, but I do that um in the morning, you you know, you sort want to amplify the cortisol and so-called catecholamines, so dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine kind of milieu. Um and it can assist with that a bit. Um And let's see. Um what else? Oh, I take N-acetylcysteine.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 呃，每天 600 毫克。它是谷胱甘肽的前体。 呃，N-乙酰半胱氨酸，有一项非常好的研究表明，每天三次服用 600 到 900 毫克 N-乙酰半胱氨酸，可以降低感染流感的几率。 他们做这项研究的方法是让人们暴露于——
Original English >> Uh 600 mg a day. It's a glutathione precursor. Uh N-acetylcysteine, there's a really nice study showing um that N-acetylcysteine 600 to 900 mg taken three times per day can reduce the likelihood that you will catch flu. And they did this study by exposing people to to
**>>**: 携带有流感病毒的其他人。
Original English >> other people with flu virus.
**>>**: 没错。它可能会让你流一点鼻涕。它是一种黏液溶解剂。在囊性纤维化（即肺部积液）的其他背景和剂量下，它实际上也被应用。所以这是一个相当强大的工具。我通常每天吃一次，如果我觉得身体疲惫、或者在旅行途中、或者周围有人生病了，我会每天吃三次。 它或许也有助于缩短感冒或流感的病程。但这个窍门我是从一位急诊室医生那里学来的，他在疫情期间工作，需要保持健康。 但是那篇论文里的数据——如果你想要我可以给你提供链接——非常引人注目。在这种情况下流感的传播率——我想安慰剂组的人暴露于明确的流感病毒后，感染流感的人数大约在 70% 几的中段。而我认为在服用 N-乙酰半胱氨酸的组中，这个数字降到了 20% 几的高段。这些具体数字你得再去核对一下。 所以非常令人印象深刻。我认为安全增加谷胱甘肽是安全的，所以为什么不呢？我和销售它的任何公司都没有商业利益关系，但它们几乎都差不多。然后在午餐时，我吃复合维生素。我吃两颗消化酶。 我绝对认为那能有所帮助。如果有人吃完东西后发痒，或者认为自己对食物过敏，在你跑去花大钱做食物过敏分析或治疗之前，我建议有一种酶，你可以在吃任何含组胺食物之前服用。这彻底改变了我与食物的关系，因为我现在几乎什么都能吃了。这个工具实际上是斯坦福的一位同事向我推荐的，这并不一定意味着它来自临床研究，但合乎逻辑。如果你没有产生足够的酶来代谢含组胺食物，你可以想象你可能会出现一些不舒服的症状。我是一个严重过敏体质的人。我觉得你需要了解这一点。这很棒。我是说，它—— 我以前吃完某些食物后会犯困。我心想：这是怎么回事？经常是乳制品让我这样，我曾以为：“噢，是色氨酸。”结果证明那是胡扯。与其他食物相比，乳制品或火鸡中的色氨酸根本不够多。 嗯，我注意到我的眉毛周围会发痒，而且容易患自身免疫疾病的人——比如对我来说，如果大家有一点银屑病之类的——很多时候他们会发现这些食物对他们是一种刺激。所以我做这个。 而且，我这里描述的这种酶大概每天花费不到一分钱。所以成本微不足道。 嗯，我们来看看。然后在那一餐里是我服用 Lovaza 复合维生素的时候。 嗯，我确实吃——我确实吃干燥肝脏胶囊。嗯，大家要小心铁负荷增加，因为它的血红素铁含量很高，但我不愿吃肝脏。我对吃肝脏毫无兴趣。它吸引不了我。 嗯，但我吃它是为了获取其中的某些营养成分。然后在晚上，嗯，再次声明不是推销，但对我来说迄今为止效果最好的助眠补充剂，就是吃 AGZ，这是我协助他们研发的一种混合配方。所以它含有苏糖酸镁（magnesium L-threonate）。
Original English >> Great. It can make your nose run a little bit. It's a mucolytic. It's actually used in other contexts and dosages for cystic fibrosis, which is the build-up of fluid in the lungs. So, it's a pretty powerful tool. I take it once per day and if I'm feeling run down or if I'm traveling or if I'm around somebody who's sick, I will I'll take three times a day. It can also perhaps help shorten the course of a cold or flu. But, I learned this trick from an ER doc who was working through the pandemic and needed to stay healthy. But, the data in that paper, and I can provide you a link if you want, are pretty interesting. They The sort of transmission of flu in this case was um I think it was in the mid 70% age points is of people who who took the placebo got the flu by being exposed to clearly flu virus. And I think that number reduced to the high 20s in the group that took N-acetylcysteine. You'll have to double-check on those numbers. So, pretty impressive. I figure safe increasing glutathione safe, so why not? No financial relationship to any company that sells it, but they're all pretty much equivalent. And then with lunch, I take a multivitamin. I take two digestive enzymes. I definitely think that can help. If somebody gets itchy after food or thinks they have food allergies before you run off and do some expensive food allergy analysis or something like that or treatment, I recommend there's a um there's a enzyme to that you can take before you eat any histaminergic foods. Completely transformed my relationship to food cuz I can eat pretty much anything now. This is a tool that was actually suggested to me by a colleague at Stanford, which doesn't necessarily mean it's a clinical study, but makes sense. If you're not making enough of the enzyme to process histaminergic foods, um >> [clears throat] >> you can imagine you might get some uncomfortable symptoms. And I'm a very allergic person. I feel like you need to know that. This is great. I mean, and it um I used to get sleepy after eating eating certain foods. I'm like, what is this? It was often dairy foods that would make me and I thought, "Oh, it's tryptophan." And it turns out to be nonsense. There's not enough trip- tryptophan in dairy or turkey relative to other things. Um I see it's kind of like itchy around my eyebrows and um and people who are kind of prone to autoimmune conditions, like people who have like for me if you if people have a little bit of psoriasis or something like that, often times they'll find that these foods are kind of irritating to them. So, I do that. Also, what I'm describing here it probably costs less than a penny a day for this enzyme. So, it's a trivial a trivial cost. Um so, let's see. And then in that meal is when I take the the Lavazza multivitamin. Um I do take um I do take uh desiccated liver. Um people have to be careful about increasing iron load cuz it's high in heme iron, but um I don't want to eat liver. I have no interest in eating liver. Um it it doesn't appeal to me. Um but I take it for some of the nutrients that are there. And then in the evening, um again, not a promotional, but the sleep supplement that's been far and away the best thing for me is just to take AGZ, which is a cocktail of things that I helped them create. So, it's got magnesium 3 and 8.
**>>**: 好的。
Original English >> Yeah.
**>>**: 它含有 C 和 E。它含有酸樱桃。它把所有的提取物和成分结合在了一起。我吃那个，我的睡眠好极了。它实际上让我不用再去随身携带一大堆不同的药片。我还——我尝试过肽类，而且关于我在激素和肽类领域的一些其他尝试，我一直很坦率。也许我们可以把那部分对话单列出来，因为我刚才描述的内容——我想非常明确地说明——基本就是我在大约 20 岁（浮动上下几岁，我的意思是当时 AG 并不存在之类）到 45 岁之间所做的事情。45 岁时我开始尝试一些其他东西。嗯，但那就是全部了。我可以说，如果你想就某些工具展开讨论——尤其是在硅谷这里大家为了专注而尝试的一些工具，以及提高专注力的兴奋剂和非兴奋剂方法——我花了很多时间研究这个，我也花了一些时间亲自做实验。
Original English >> It um it's got C and E. It's got the tart cherry. It's got the all the extracts and things combined. I take that and my sleep's spectacular. It actually allowed me to stop carrying around, you know, a bunch of different pills. I also um I I experimented with peptides and I have been open about my experimentation with some other things in kind of the hormone and peptide area. Maybe we separate that conversation because what I just described, I want to be very clear, is basically what I did between age gosh, um 20, you know, plus or minus I mean, AG didn't exist and some things like that. But and um 45. At 45 I started to experiment with a few other things. Um but that's that. Um I have I will say I If you want to have a conversation about some of the tools, especially here in uh Silicon Valley that people are experimenting with for focus and some of the stimulant and non-stimulant approaches to focus. I spent a lot of time researching that and I've spent some time experimenting with that, too.
### 自我克制与手机管理 **>>**: 有什么是你向别人推荐、但你自己却不太擅长遵守的，或者你明知道对自己不好却仍在做的事情是什么？
Original English >> What's something you recommend to others but are not that good at following yourself or what do you do that you know is bad for you?
**>>**: 我觉得社交媒体这件事可能是最大的一项。 我最近把 X 和 Instagram 移到了一部单独的手机上，这样即使别人给我发东西，我也打不开。
Original English >> I think the social media thing might be the biggest one. I recently moved X and Instagram to a separate phone so that if people send me things I can't open it.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 然后我把那部手机放在一个带锁的箱子里，这样我会规定：“好，我上一小时。”然后它就放回——这是一个最高安全级别监狱规格的带锁箱子。所以你无法通过输密码提前解开它。这对我来说有点尴尬，因为我是能够控制自己行为的，但我确实发现时间一晃就过去了——
Original English >> And then I keep that phone in a lock box so that I say, "Okay, for an hour I'm going on there." And then it goes back into And this is a supermax prison lock box. So you can't you can't actually code out of it. That's a little bit embarrassing for me because I can control my behavior, but I did find that time would pass
**>>**: 你跟我们普通人一样。
Original English >> You're just like us.
**>>**: 哎，算法已经变得太厉害了。它们变得太强了，内容太吸引人了，而且还有点不同的是，我在上面，所以我是以一种相当活跃的方式在与它互动。嗯，而且我的意思也是，去上网看到大家在对你评头论足，那种体验也是蛮怪异的，然后你试图去解释事情，试图弄清楚他们是不是出于善意，这真的会吸走大量的时间。
Original English >> Well, the algorithms have gotten so good. They've gotten so good and it's so entertaining and it's also a little different because I'm on there so I'm interacting with it in a in a pretty active way. Um And I mean, it's also just a weird experience like to go online and see like people saying stuff about you and and then you're trying to like, you know, like explain things and trying to figure out if they're in good faith or not and it can really suck a lot of time.
**>>**: 完全是这样。
Original English >> Totally.
**>>**: 所以我认为那可能是最大的一项，而且嗯，它是确实带有一点点羞耻感的一项，对吧？我们都应该能够控制自己的行为。那我为什么需要一个带锁的箱子来锁手机呢？ 但另一方面，我觉得当它在锁箱里时——数据支持这一点——如果手机不在房间里或者完全拿不到，你所能动用的认知资源，比它甚至放在你椅子下面的包里关着机时都要多。这是一项做过的研究。人们可以保持同样的专注度，但他们需要动用额外的认知资源才能达到那种专注水平。这项研究对此做了非常巧妙的考察。 所以我尽量把手机放在另一个房间，而且我发现把它放在锁箱里完全是另一种维度的“不可触及”，我认为这对我很有帮助。
Original English >> So I think that I think that that's probably the biggest one and um it's the one that yeah, it carries like a little bit of shame, right? We should all be able to control our behavior. So why should I need a lock box for my phone? On the other hand I feel like when it's in the lock box and data support this that if the phone is out of the room or completely inaccessible there's cognitive resources that become available to you that are not if it's even in your bag turned off under your chair. This was a study that was done. It's people can focus just as well, but they need to use additional cognitive resources to to have that level of focus. This was looked at in a pretty clever way in the study. So I try and keep the phone in another room and I find that having it in the lock box is a whole other level of inaccessibility that I think serves me.
### 健康三大法则与前沿神经技术 **>>**: 这对我来说完全说得通。嗯，好的，你目前仍然以健康研究为生，这也促成了许多建议和方案。如果要你列出、向大家推荐三件排名前三的事情，最多不超过三件——
Original English >> That totally checks out to me. Um okay, you do still health research for a living and it's resulted in a lot of recommendations and protocols. If you had to say if you had to recommend three things to people ranked no more than three
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: ——为了过上更健康的生活，这三件事会是什么？
Original English >> to live a healthier life, what would those three things be?
**>>**: 很好。嗯，早晨明亮的光线，最好来自太阳光。也就是在醒来后的前 30 到 60 分钟内。如果你无法获得阳光，就买一盏 10,000 勒克斯的人工灯，然后只要条件允许就去晒晒阳光。这是第一条。 下一条会是，按照我之前谈到的力量训练方案去练。它会彻底改变你的生活。如果女性担心变得过于粗壮，它不会那样的。我是说在体态重塑、情绪、大脑健康方面，你不会找到更强有力的刺激了。然后最后一条会是—— 想方设法让你能得到的睡眠达到最高质量。你知道，我有时会因为这个遭到理所当然的抨击，比如“嘿，我有孩子，我工作很忙，邻居总是在制造噪音，我该怎么办？” 大部分夜晚去找一个可以瞄准的就寝时间，让你能够获得最多的深度睡眠。 别错过那个窗口期。这里我把第四点顺带合并进来了：真正学会入睡以及重新入睡。我不会说去追求完美的睡眠，因为那样你得把整个生活都围绕它来组织。我想说的是，通过长呼气呼吸来减慢你的心率。学会如何闭上眼睛——这听起来很古怪，但它是基于我们对底层神经回路的理解。 当你因为思维奔逸而难以入睡时，让你的眼睛来回转动、上下移动等等，会极大地帮助你入睡，这其中的原理并不神秘。那是因为为了入睡，你需要忘记你的身体姿态，而这样做会扰乱前庭系统。事实上，如果允许我补充的话，我最兴奋的技术之一——我希望 A16Z 能够投资开发这个，我自己没有与之相关的公司——就是通过以特定方式控制眼球运动来诱导睡眠的眼罩。
Original English >> Great. Um morning bright light ideally from sunlight. So that would be in the first 30 to 60 minutes after waking. If you can't get it from sunlight, get a 10,000 lux artificial light, then get some sunlight if and when you can. So that's number one. The next would be um do the weight training protocol I talked about earlier. It will completely change your life. If women are concerned about being too bulky, it's not going to do that. It's I mean in terms of body recomposition, mood, brain health, you know, you're not going to find a more potent stimulus. And then the last one would be um to figure out some way to make the sleep you can get the highest quality sleep. You know, I sometimes get you know, appropriately attacked for hey, you know, I've got kids, I've got a busy job, you know, the neighbors are always making noise, what do I do? Find a two bedtime to shoot for most nights that um allows you to get the most deep sleep. Don't miss that window. And here I'm lumping in a fourth, but really learn to get to sleep and fall back asleep. You know, I'm not going to say get perfect sleep because you'd have to organize your whole life around that. I'm going to say do long exhale breathing to slow your heart rate. Learn how to close your eyes and this sounds so kooky, but it's grounded in what we understand about the underlying circuitry. Um moving your eyes back and forth and up and down and so forth when you're having a hard time falling asleep because your mind is racing will greatly help you fall asleep and it's not mysterious why. It's because in order to fall asleep you need to forget about your body position and this confuses the vestibular system. In fact, if I may, one of the technologies that I'm most excited about and I'm hoping A16Z will make this I don't have a company related to this. Our sleep masks that induce sleep by controlling eye movements in certain ways.
**>>**: 很有意思。
Original English >> Interesting.
**>>**: 那该有多酷？并且还能测量快速眼动睡眠（REM）和慢波睡眠。但我认为那是我们大家都迫切需要的下一波技术浪潮。但正如我所说的，那三件事是：早晨明亮光线；是的，抗阻力量训练，如果你想做的话仍然可以做有氧，但抗阻训练是提升健康真正锋利的刀刃；以及在当前的环境下想办法在每晚获得最高质量的睡眠，不管那是 5 小时还是 6 小时，理想是 8 小时，但弄清楚在酒店房间或你碰巧乘坐的飞机上你能做些什么。把那些事情搞清楚。嗯，然后你就会开始体会到那种不再害怕自己没有获得完美一夜睡眠所带来的灵活性。比如我睡 6 个小时也挺好，因为我知道如果只睡了 6 个小时，在白天该如何调节自己的精力。 而且我也很想睡满 8 个小时，但我记不清上次没有起夜一两次、一口气睡满 8 个小时是什么时候了。它就是不会发生。
Original English >> How cool would that be? And measure rapid eye movement sleep and slow wave sleep. But I think that's the next wave of technology that we all desperately need. But the three things are as I said, the morning bright light, yep the resistance training, still do cardio if you want to the resistance training is the really sharp blade of of of health improvement. And find a way in your current circumstances each night to get the highest quality whatever 5 hours, 6 hours, ideally it's 8 hours, but find know that the things that you can do in the context of the hotel room, the airplane that you happen to be on. Figure those things out. Um and then you'll start to experience the flexibility that comes from not fearing that you didn't get the perfect night's sleep. Like I'm fine on 6 hours because I know how to regulate my energy during the day if I just got 6. And I would love to get eight, but I don't can't tell you the last time I got eight solid hours without getting up once or twice. It just doesn't happen.
### 创始人的三大认知表现习惯 **>>**: 我们有很多创始人听众收听播客。如果让你同样为创始人或任何人精简出三条提升认知表现的循证习惯，那会是哪三样？
Original English >> We've a lot of founders who listen to our podcast. If you had to also kind of narrow it down to three pieces of evidence-based habits for cognitive performance for founders or anyone, what would those things be?
**>>**: 好的，第一条是了解你处于高认知能力的窗口期是在什么时候。 这对每个人都不同。对我来说，我能感觉到上午 11:00 的到来。天哪，我真希望这发生在早上 7:00，而且我起得很早。我应该说明一下，我往往在早上 6:00 到 7:00 之间起床。有时如果我晚上 9:00 睡，我早上 5:00 醒。好吧，如果我 10:00 或 11:00 睡，我往往 7:00 醒。所以就是这样，而且我半夜会醒来，就像我想绝大多数正常人类一样，我这辈子 90% 的夜晚都会上个洗手间然后回到床上。好的。所以我知道在早晨我往往有很重的睡眠惯性。我需要做这些事情。我会做运动等等。但我这样做的部分原因是我知道如果我在上午 9:00 之前锻炼，我在当天剩下的时间里会有多得多的精力和专注力。如果我在上午 11:00 锻炼——那差不多是我上午精力的峰值——那么到了下午 3:00，我就精疲力竭了。 这只是我个人情况，其他人可能不同。因此有些人发现适合工作的峰值落在一天中的某个特定时间。对我来说有两个时间段。真正是在上午 9:30 到中午 12:30 之间。 那个窗口期至关重要。所以我必须非常小心，不要在那个窗口期锻炼，因为我和大多数创始人一样，锻炼是没有人给我付钱的。 这非常重要。如果你要为健康做一些事情，它们必须能够支撑起你生活的其他领域，其方式能够反哺让你的公司获得成功，然后你日后才真正有资源去改变你的日程。但否则的话，如果大家试图把所有这些方案都硬塞进去，他们只会把自己耗尽。所以对我来说，是 9:30 到 12:30。那是一个关键窗口期。然后我的专注力和认知往往会有一点下滑。接着对我来说，在傍晚的某个时候，大约下午 4:30 到 5:00 左右，我开始迎来另一个窗口期，持续到大约晚上 7:00 左右，就在晚餐之前。 我必须抓住它。我已经了解到，我的大脑在这两个窗口期里更擅长处理某些事情。这同样具有高度个体差异。对有些人来说，可能是在半夜。 因此我认为了解你自己——这在不同的人生阶段或生活境遇中可能会发生改变——但了解你自己，真正抓住那两个时间段并保护好它们，就好像它们是一天中最重要的时间一样。所以在那段或那些时间里，或许只有你的家人和同事在发生紧急情况时才能联系到你。对大多数人来说，大概是每天两次。 你可能会说那时间不够多。那是 3 个小时的高度专注工作，然后在下午再来 3 个小时或者两到三个小时。我没见过多少人能每天彻底专注 8 或 9 个小时而第二天不彻底报废的。
Original English >> Yeah, first one is know when your windows of high cognitive capacity are. This is different for everybody. So for me, I can feel 11:00 a.m. come around. I gosh, I wish it was 7:00 a.m. when this happened and I get up pretty early. I should say I tend to get up between 6:00 and 7:00 a.m. Sometimes if I go to sleep at 9:00, I wake up at 5:00. Okay, if I go to sleep at 10:00 or 11:00, I tend to wake up at 7:00. So it's just and I wake up in the middle of the night like I think most normal human beings I use the restroom and get back into bed 90% of the nights in my life. Okay. So I know that in the morning I tend to have a lot of sleep inertia. I need to do these things. I'll do the exercise, etc. But part of the reason I do that is I know if I exercise before 9:00 a.m., I have a lot more energy and focus for the rest of the day. If I exercise at 11:00 a.m., which is kind of peak of my morning energy, at 3:00 in the afternoon, I'm exhausted. This is just me, but other people might be different. So, some people find that that peak for work is lot lies at a certain time of the day. For me, there's two times. It's really between the hours of 9:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. That window is crucial. So, I have to be very careful that I'm not exercising in that window because I, like most founders, don't get paid to exercise. This is very important. I If you're going to do things for your health, they have to support the other areas of your life in a way that feed back on to something where your company succeeds and then you actually have the resources to maybe change your schedule someday. But otherwise, if people are trying to just pack all these protocols in, they're just going to deplete themselves. So, for me, it's 9:30 to 12:30. That's one key window. Then I tend to have a little bit of dip in focus and cognition. And then for me, somewhere in the late afternoon, right around 4:35 p.m., I start to get an another window that lasts until about 7:00 p.m. or so, right before dinner. And I have to capture that. And I've learned that my mind is better at certain things in those two windows. Again, this is highly individual. For some people, it might be the middle of the night. It So, I think knowing yourself, and this might change across stages of life or life circumstances, but knowing yourself and really capturing those two and protecting those times as if they were the most important times of the day. So, maybe only your family members and co-workers can access you with emergencies during that time or those times. For most people, it's going to be about twice a day. You might say that's not enough time. That's 3 hours of focused work and then maybe 3 hours again in the afternoon or two or three. I don't know many people that are completely focused for 8 or 9 hours a day without the next day being completely shot.
**>>**: 我同意。
Original English >> I agree.
**>>**: 特别是如果你借助药物的话——我们可以聊聊药物。 正如我所说的，咖啡因我会在一整天里小口抿着喝，直到下午。如果我早上锻炼了，下午往往不需要那么多咖啡因。我就是补充水分和电解质。许多人会发现，仅仅把水分补充得更好就会提高警觉度。嗯， 所以那是第一条。弄清楚你什么时候可以运动从而赋予你更多精力，并且保护好那些我称之为“工作回合”（work bouts）的时间段。我真的把实打实的工作看作是一场战斗。我的朋友 Rick Rubin 喜欢在醒来后——我不会说是很慢，但带着很多平静和从容进入一天，然后他的工作时段通常是在下午。我知道这一点是因为我和 Rick 在一起呆了很长时间，那是他思维最敏锐的时候，然后他在晚上逐渐放松，但他在这几个小时里极其努力地工作，而且他清楚这些时间落在何时。 我稍微有点不同。 我的工作分为两个回合，但它们就像对决回合一样。你应该把它们看作一场战斗，而真正的危险在于： 如果你身处那些窗口期之一，而你任由自己的注意力被对公司建设毫无价值的事情所吸引， 你失去的不仅是那三四个小时， 因为在那三四个小时里产出的生产力，呈指数级大于在稍后某个时间做该项工作或补课工作所带来的生产力。这也会妨碍你拥有健康的个人生活。
Original English >> Especially if you use pharmacology and we could talk about pharmacology. Caffeine I sip on throughout the day as I said till the afternoon. If I exercise in the morning, I tend to not need as much caffeine in the afternoon. I'll just hydrate electrolytes. A lot of people will find that just hydrating better will increase their alertness. Um So that's number one. Figure out when you can exercise so that it gives you more energy and protect those I call them work bouts. I literally think of of real work as a fight. My friend Rick Rubin likes to wake up, rather I wouldn't say slowly but move into the day with a lot of kind of peace and you know, and kind of calmness and then his work block generally is in the afternoon. I know this because I've spent a lot of time with Rick and that's when his mind is sharpest and then he tapers off in the evening, but he's working extremely hard in those hours and he knows when those fall. I'm a little different. Mine come in two bouts, but they are like bouts. You should think of them as a fight and here's the real the real danger. If you're in one of those windows and you allow your attention to be captured by something that's not worthwhile towards your company build, you're losing you're not just losing that three or four hours because the the productivity that comes in those three or four hours is exponentially greater than the productivity that comes from doing that work at some point later or the catch-up work. It also prevents you from having a healthy personal life.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 所以你必须像守护最重要的事情一样守护那段时间，除了家庭紧急情况之外。好的，所以那是第一条。 我认为另一条是——你知道，过去在硅谷，我是这儿长大的，大家都说“没有成功的创始人是不冥想的”之类的话，或者说他们全都冥想，而我当时想：这真的可能是真的吗？难道他们全都是冥想者吗？嗯， 我认为那真正的核心在于，你必须非常善于处于“刺激-反应”这种生活模式之中。比如你有任务，你处理任务，你井井有条。 但我确实认为，每天有一次——哪怕只有几分钟——脱离这种“刺激-反应”模式，向内探索，审视自己是否合理分配了精力，这是非常有价值的。有些人更容易被卷入对话、八卦和他们看到的东西中。 嗯，有时候人们在网上看到的东西会在神经系统中产生长尾效应。有数据表明，你 2 小时后的想法某种程度上是被你在前几个小时看到的内容所植入的。 但有些人更像方波，你知道他们能更好地进行心理隔离。嗯，另一些人比如像我自己，如果我之前进行了一场我很感兴趣的对话，它就会萦绕在脑海里，并且会影响我接下来做的下一件事。所以我认为，这些让你稍微停下来审视自我、将自己与所有输入隔离开来的时刻，能让你更有效地完成转折转换。 我们目前并没有针对“任务切换”的正式方案，但这对于公司创始人以及各行各业的员工来说是极其重要的，对吧？你必须能够在认知上进行任务切换。因此我们需要更多关于如何做到这一点的科学数据，但它肯定涉及到回归到某种没有任何输入的初始状态。我认为这非常重要。事实上，Rick 和我一直在琢磨一些不是冥想的工具。我们一直试图构建一些既不是冥想也不是瑜伽睡眠的工具，但能够让你为接下来的事情预先设定好你的大脑。 就像你想想看，现在已经是 2026 年了。到底为什么我们坐下来开始工作时只是干想着：“好吧，现在我要专注了”，“现在我要发挥创造力了”？我们应该有办法去控制神经活动，使我们能够更快、更深入地调动那些回路。
Original English >> So you you you have to protect that time as if it were the most important thing with the exception of family emergencies. Okay, so that's number one. I think the other one is you know, it used to be in the valley, I grew up down here, that everyone said, you know, no successful founder uh you know, it is a non-meditator or something or they all meditate and I said thing like, can that really be true? Like are they all these meditators? Um I think that what that's really about is that you need to be pretty good at being in the whole stimulus response mode of living life. Like you have task, you're handling tasks, you're organized. But I think I do think that once a day it's very valuable, even if it's for just a few minutes, to just get out of stimulus response and and going kind of inward and checking with yourself whether or not you're allocating your energy properly. Some people are more prone to getting pulled into conversations and dramas and what they see. Um sometimes people will see things online that has long tail in their nervous system. And there's there data on this showing that your thoughts in 2 hours are sort of seeded by what you saw in previous hours. But some people have are more of like square waves when they you know they compartmentalize better. Um other people like myself, if I have a conversation earlier that's of interest to me, it sort of lingers and it will impact the next thing that that I do. So I think these these moments where you just kind of check in and separate yourself from all the inputs allows you to to pivot more effectively. And so we don't really have formal protocols for task switching, but this is extremely important for company founders and employees across the board, right? You have to be able to to cognitively task switch. And so we need more more data on how that's done, but it certainly involves have re- returning to some state where there aren't any inputs. I think this is very important. In fact, Rick and I have been kicking around some some tools that are not meditations. We've been trying to build some tools that are not meditations. They're not yoga nidra, but that would allow you to kind of program your mind for what comes next. Like if you think about it, it's 2026. Why in the world are we sitting down to do work and just going, "Okay, now I'm going to be focused." And now I'm going to be creative. Well, I'm going to like we should have ways to control neural activity that would allow us to access those circuits more quickly and more deeply.
**>>**: 有人向我推销过一款通过向大脑发送脑波来减轻类似 ADHD 症状并帮助专注的设备。
Original English >> I've been pitched on a a that reduces like ADHD and helps focus by sending waves through your brain.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 是的，我认为这在一定程度上将通过控制神经活动来实现。 嗯，所以它会是某种整体大脑状态的振荡波之类的东西。我认为它——我很喜欢它能够个性化这个构想。 也就是你——我很喜欢这种概念：你在脑海中听到自己的声音（也许是通过耳机），它了解你，知道你的弱点在哪里，知道你的优势在哪里。而且它是你自己的 AI 定制教练，在告诉你如何对某些事情建立屏障并组织你的专注力。或者也许是为了从一天中解压并彻底放松。
Original English >> Yeah, I think it's going to be in part by controlling activity. Um, so it'll be sort of general brain state oscillations and things like that. I think it will I like the idea that it will be personalized. That you I like the idea that you hear your own voice in your head, maybe through headphones, telling you that knows you, knows where you're weak, and knows where you're strong. And is and is your own AI-built coach that's telling you how to create some blinders around certain things and and organize your focus. Or maybe to decompress from the day and just completely relax.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 对于这些技术我感到非常兴奋，但主要是在睡眠和唤醒领域。因为目前我们还没有理想的工具，也许这家公司有，但是如果你想象一款能够借助控制眼球运动来促成入睡的睡眠眼罩。通过在耳后施加一点电刺激，这是非常容易做到的。
Original English >> With I'm very excited about these technologies, but mostly in the domain of sleep and waking up. Because right now we don't have the ideal tools, maybe this company does, but if you think about a sleep mask that could put you to sleep by virtue of I controlling your eye movements. It's very easy to do with a little bit of electrical stimulation behind the ear.
**>>**: 是的，我正想问那个。那是迷走神经[清嗓子]还是什么？
Original English >> Yes, I was going to ask about that. What's that, vagus [clears throat] nerve or something?
**>>**: 耳朵周围有迷走神经的分支。还有其他一些前庭神经，因为它们支配内耳，走行位置足够表浅，你可以做到这一点，还有眼外肌。
Original English >> Well, you have branches of the vagus around the around the ear. There's some other um vestibula- vestibular nerves that because they innervate the inner ear that that run superficially enough that that you can do this and the extraocular muscles.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 所以，我实际上有机会试用过其中一款睡眠眼罩，对我来说 6 分钟我就睡着了。它还能把你唤醒，这真的很有趣。我的意思是，也许它会提供合适的光照等等这类东西。
Original English >> So, I've actually had the chance to try one of these sleep masks and for me it was 6 minutes, I'm out. It can also wake you up, which is really interesting. I mean, maybe it would deliver the proper lighting, you know, these kinds of things.
**>>**: 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
**>>**: 所以，我认为进出睡眠的转换期将是神经技术真正攻克挑战的第一个阵地。因为我们确切地知道你需要什么。你需要进入睡眠。
Original English >> So, that the transitions into and out of sleep I think are going to be are going to be the first place where the neurotechnologies really conquer the challenge. Because we know exactly what you need. You need to be asleep.
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 好的。你需要清醒，你需要警觉。而当涉及到“好的，现在我们要坐下来做这类任务”时，我们仍然不清楚你真正想要的大脑活动模式究竟是什么。 比如为了专注，你希望保持警觉但又不能过度警觉，对吧？这是一个倒 U 型函数，越过那个峰顶你就会高度分心，对吧？太困倦，你也会高度分心。那是需要拿捏的黄金平衡点。 所以我认为那是一个非常令人兴奋的神经技术领域。再说一次，它会首先发生在睡眠领域。而且结合 AI，它将能够校准并指出：“噢，你知道，为了在处于这种特定状态时诱导睡眠，我们需要让眼球偏转幅度更大一些。”
Original English >> Okay. You need to be awake. You need to be alert. When it comes to, okay, now we're going to sit down and and do this type of task, we're still not clear what the patterns of brain activity that you want really are. Like, for focus you want to be alert but not too alert, right? It's the inverted U-shaped function that over that hump you you're highly distractible, right? Too sleepy, you're highly distractible. It's that sweet spot. So, I think that that's a really exciting area of neurotechnology. And again, it'll happen first with sleep. And also with AI, it will be able to to calibrate and say, "Oh, you know, we we need to make the eye eye deflections um broader in order to induce when you're in this particular state."
**>>**: 嗯哼。
Original English >> Mhm.
**>>**: 嗯，是的，我对这个超级兴奋。嗯，所以你刚才问到了给创始人的工具。我认为——对，我认为以一种根据对你最重要的事情进行量身定制的方式来组织你的一天，对吧？抛开个人生活的差异不谈， 你需要在一天中完成两次你最出色的工作。你需要像对待运动员一样对待自己。你知道，当我还在管理实验室以及我还在做博士后的时候我就意识到，比如要是在学术会议期间我早点睡觉，第二天我在会议上的思维就会更加敏锐。 当时学术会议对我来说非常重要。嗯，同样在做实验方面，我能比其他人多做两倍的实验。不仅是通过某一天拼命工作，而是我每天都能多完成一个小时的工作。当然，我也是那种有时会把实验带到学术研讨会上去做的人。我当时想：“这太疯狂了。我得做一些免疫组化实验。我为什么不把它带到研讨会上去呢？”我听说别人这么做过，我就想：“我也要把我的托盘和转印架带过去。” 所以，你知道，如果每个人都开始那么做，那会成问题的。但关键在于，如果你真的极其认真地对待自己和工作，你就需要按那种方式来规划你的一天。我确实认为，每周留出一天让自己彻底从工作中脱离出来，对于你重新投入工作的能力是非常有益的。你知道，我父亲是一位科学家，他参与过——在施乐帕洛阿尔托研究中心（Xerox PARC）工作了很长时间，现在他在做别的事情，但很久以前他就说过，你必须成为一名长跑运动员。这是一场耐力赛。
Original English >> Um Yeah, I'm super excited by this. Um So, you asked about tools for founders. I think that right, I think that organizing your day in a way that is tailored to what's most important to you, right? So, setting personal life differences aside, you need to get your best work done twice a day. You need to treat yourself like an athlete. You know, it occurred to me when I was running a lab, but also when I was a postdoc, like if I get to bed earlier at a conference, I'm going to be sharper the next day at the conference. Conferences were really important to me then. Um likewise with doing experiments, I can get twice as many experiments in as everybody else. Not just by working really hard one day, but I'm getting an extra hour of work done. Of course, I was also the person I'd sometimes bring my experiments to seminars. I was like, "This is crazy. I I need to run some immunochemistry. Why wouldn't I bring it to the seminar?" I'd heard someone else did that. I was like, "I'm going to just bring my trays and transfers." So, you know, if everyone started doing that, it'd be problematic. But, the point is that if you take yourself and your work really seriously, you need to organize your day that way. I do think that having one day per week where you just comple- completely disengage from things can be very beneficial for your ability to re-engage. You know, my dad's a scientist and he's been involved in worked at Xerox PARC for a long time, and now he's doing other things, but long ago he said, you know, you you have to be a long-distance runner. Like, this is this is an endurance event.
**>>**: 我同意。
Original English >> I agree.
**>>**: 所以我得到的最好的建议——这将是关于这方面的最后一点——来自于加州大学伯克利分校和加州大学旧金山分校（UCSF）的一位神经学家。 几年前的 Bob Knight，极有才华。嗯，当时我正要开始读研究生，向他征求建议，他说：“算清楚你每天能够稳定完成的高效工作的最大量，然后找出一套不具破坏性的方式，每周彻底重置一次你自己。” 我想：“好吧。”而在那时的我，我可以工作非常非常长的时间。我问：“那你怎么重置呢？”他说他喜欢钓鱼。我觉得钓鱼还行，但我不太热衷，我知道自己喜欢什么。我喜欢徒步。我喜欢走进大自然，并且在此过程中与人共度时光。 所以我算清楚了我可以每周工作 5 天、每天工作 X 个小时，有时在周中会有一个小低谷，而我就这样坚持了，你知道，25 年。 那些摄入大量兴奋剂、一味狂飙猛冲的人，往往就是那些彻底崩溃并销声匿迹的人。所以你必须摸索并建立自己的承载能力。嗯，我认为我们对此谈论得还不够，因为人们在这方面真的各不相同。但是是的，你必须极其努力地工作。你必须极度专注，但你也必须弄清楚这种状态你能维持多久。
Original English >> So, the best advice I ever got, and this will be the last piece on this, is there was a neurologist out at um UC Berkeley and and UCSF. Um Bob Knight some years ago, very talented. And um I asked him for advice so I was starting graduate school, and he said, "Figure out the maximum amount of real work that you can do every day consistently and then figure out some non-destructive way to reset yourself every single week. I thought, "Okay." And for me at that time, I could work very, very long hours. I said, "How do you reset?" He He's He said he He likes fishing. I'm okay with fishing, but I'm not into I I know what I like. I like to hike. I like to get into nature and spend time with people while I do it. So, I figured out I could work X number of hours per day 5 days a week, sometimes a little trough in the middle of the week, and I just stuck to it for, you know, 25 years. If you People who take a ton of stimulants and just blitz, blitz, blitz, blitz, blitz, these are the same people that crash and disappear. So, you have to figure out and build your capacity. Um and I think we don't talk about that enough because people really differ in in this regard. But, yes, you have to work extremely hard. You have to be extremely focused, but you also have to figure out how long you can keep this up.