--- author: The Diary Of A CEO date: '2026-11-02' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpIN6tYC5XM speaker: The Diary Of A CEO tags: - political-reform - ai-policy - wealth-inequality - election-campaign title: 詹姆斯·塔拉里科访谈：得州民主党参议员竞选、系统性改革与AI政策 summary: 得州民主党参议员候选人詹姆斯·塔拉里科在访谈中分享其成长背景，批评当前政治体制腐败及权贵资本主义，主张通过系统性改革而非更换个人来解决问题。他担忧AI技术被少数亿万富翁垄断，提出应确保劳动者分享AI红利，并呼吁建立大众运动以推动变革。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: politics-society area: society-thinking project: [] people: - James Tarallo companies_orgs: - Uber - DoorDash products_models: - Cybercab media_books: [] status: evergreen --- 让我们的本地居民之一成为全球首位万亿富翁，与此同时却有五分之一的得克萨斯儿童生活在贫困之中。对我而言，这是一种精神层面的病态。现在是三个人拥有的财富超过了整个中产阶级。作为关心我们州民众的人，这不是我想要的未来。我们必须建立一个民有、民治、民享的政府。而且我们必须清理我们政治体制中的腐败。
Original Englishfor one of our own residents to become the world's first trillionaire while one in five Texas children live in poverty. To me, that is a spiritual sickness. Right now, it's three men to now own more wealth than the entire middle class. As someone who cares about the people in my state, that's not the future I want. We have to have a government of by and for the people. And we have to clean up the corruption in our political system.
>> 得克萨斯州州长腐败吗？
Original English>> Is the Texas governor corrupt?
>> 是的。这样说分量很重。好吧，我是第八代得州人。由一位单身母亲抚养长大，她是一位传教士的女儿。她加班加点工作来供养我。我的生父变得有虐待倾向，所以她把我们所有的东西都装进她的小福特护卫舰汽车里。我们找了一间小公寓。那里没有放婴儿房的空间，所以我就睡在她壁橱里的婴儿床里。那种奋斗的精神，我觉得她把它传承给了我。但同时，信仰确实一直是我生命的基石，也是我竞选公职的原因。我正努力通过公共政策来爱我的邻居。
Original English>> Yes. That's a strong thing to say. Well, I'm an eighth generation Texan. Was born to a single mother, a preacher's daughter. She worked overtime to provide for me. My birth father became abusive, so she packed all our stuff into her little Ford Escort. We found a little apartment. There wasn't room for a nursery, so I slept in a crib in her closet. And that fighting spirit, I feel like she passed that along to me. But also, faith has really been the foundation of my life is why I ran for office. And I'm trying to love my neighbor through public policy.
>> 你即将有可能成为自1988年以来得克萨斯州的第一位民主党参议员。所以变革正是我们现在最需要的，因为无论我走到哪里，人们都在艰难求生，难以负担生活必需品，而且人们工作得比以往任何时候都更加努力。这是因为体制本身一直在操控以对抗劳动人民。我们拥有的不是资本主义。我们拥有的是权贵资本主义。在你看来，民主党为什么会输给特朗普？
Original English>> You're on the verge of potentially becoming the first Democratic senator in Texas since 1988. So change is what we need most right now because everywhere I go, people are struggling to survive, struggling to afford necessities, and people are working harder than they've ever worked. And it's because the system itself has been rigged against working people. We don't have capitalism. We have crony capitalism. Why did the Democrats lose to Trump in your view?
>> 我和很多得州人聊过，他们认为他能让经济重回正轨。他们认为他会降低成本，结束“无休止的战争”，公开爱泼斯坦档案，但进入本届政府一年多以来，这些承诺并未兑现。他是对的——拜登政府在我们的南部边境问题上辜负了我们。
Original English>> I talked with a lot of Texans who thought he could get the economy back on track. They thought he was going to lower cost and the Forever Wars, release the Epstein files, but more than a year into this administration, those promises have not been kept. that he was right that the Biden administration failed us on our southern border.
>> 那么，对此你会怎么做呢？你又该如何扭转这种局面？对于你认为下一届周期谁应该担任总统，你有想法吗？我们应该先从唐纳德·特朗普谈起。
Original English>> So, what would you do about that, though? And how do you reverse this change? And do you have an opinion on who you think should be president in the next cycle? We should start with Donald Trump.
这里有一个奇怪的事实。现在正在观看这个视频的大多数人，大约有58%的人还没有订阅这个频道。从统计学上讲，那很可能就是你。所以，我能请你帮个小忙吗？如果这个频道曾经给你带来过哪怕一丝价值，能否请你帮我个忙，点击订阅按钮。这不需要任何花费。它对我们的帮助超出你的想象。正如你所看到的，频道规模越大，我们就能在嘉宾和制作上投入越多。所以，非常感谢你。希望你喜欢本期节目。
Original EnglishHere is a strange fact. Most of the people watching this right now, about 58% of you, aren't yet subscribed to this channel. Statistically, that is probably you. So, could I ask you a small favor? If this channel has ever given you any value at all, please could you do me a favor and hit the subscribe button. It costs nothing. It helps us more than you could know. And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the more we can invest in the guests and the production. So, thank you so much. And I hope you enjoy this episode.
### 访谈开始：詹姆斯·塔拉里科的成长背景 詹姆斯·塔拉里科，如果今年十一月的选举顺应你的心意，你即将有可能创造历史，成为得克萨斯州历史上第一位民主党参议员，我想这会是自1988年以来民主党首次在得克萨斯州胜选。而且还有人告诉我，你未来某天可能会成为总统，因为你身上具备很多人认为民主党候选人成为美国总统所必需的许多特质。所以我真的只是想了解你是谁，你代表着什么，以及你来自何方。有哪些早期的背景是我为了理解今天坐在我面前的这个人所需要去了解的？
Original EnglishJames Tarico, if the elections go your way this November, you're on the verge of potentially making history by becoming the first Democratic senator in Texas history, which would be the first time, I think, since 1988 that a Democrat has won in Texas. And also people tell me that you might be president someday because you have a lot of the attributes that people think it would take a Democratic candidate to become president of the United States. So really I just want to figure out who you are and what you stand for and where you've come from. What is that early context that I need to understand to understand the man that sits in front of me today?
>> 好的。嗯，我是第八代得克萨斯人。所以我的家族从这里还是墨西哥的时候起就在这个州了。我出生于一位单身母亲，她是一位来自南得克萨斯的传教士的女儿，19岁时独自闯荡，搬到了大城市得克萨斯州奥斯汀，并且加班加点工作来供养我。她脱离了危险的处境，为我提供更好的生活。是的。这就是她。是的。她让我明白了对抗霸凌者意味着什么。她让我明白了为你爱的人而战意味着什么。她总能腾出时间去服务奉献。她有一份全职工作。她的时间非常有限，但她总是挤出时间为她关心的事业而奋斗，去志愿服务，无论是在我的学校、教会还是社区。因此，我的奉献，我的公共服务是受她的启发，而且要是没有她，我就不会在这里。
Original English>> Yeah. Well, I'm an eighth generation Texan. So my family's been in the state since it was Mexico. was born to a a single mother who was a preachers's daughter from from South Texas who struck it on her own when she was 19 years old and moved up to to the big city Austin, Texas and and um worked overtime to provide for me. She left a a dangerous situation to provide a better life for me. Yep. This is her. Yeah. She showed me what it means to stand up to bullies. She showed me what it means to fight for the people that you love. She was always making time for service. She worked a full-time job. Uh she had very limited time, but she always carved out time to fight for the causes that she cared about, to volunteer, whether it was at my school or at the church or in the community. And so um my service uh my public service is inspired by her and uh and I would not be here without her.
>> 你说她教会了你对抗霸凌者。
Original English>> You said she taught you to stand up to bullies.
>> 是的。
Original English>> Yeah.
>> 她曾与你的生父处于一段虐待关系中。
Original English>> She was in a abusive relationship with your biological father.
>> 是的。她认识我生父时，他21岁。他高中辍学。而且他有酗酒问题。当他喝酒时，他就会变得暴力，变得具有虐待倾向。在我出生后不久的一个晚上，他又动了手。就在那天晚上，她对我的爱战胜了他带来的虐待。她把我们所有的东西装进她的小福特护卫舰里，她开车带我去了她工作的宾馆，哀求经理让我们住在其中一间客房里，直到我们在东奥斯汀找到了一间小公寓。这张照片就是在那个公寓里拍的。那里没有做婴儿房的空间，所以我就睡在她壁橱里的婴儿床里。她总是说她对那个壁橱非常自豪，就像她用玩具和照片来装饰它，而且那种奋斗精神，我觉得她把它传承给了我。无论是在教室里还是在州议会，我一直试图以她为我奋斗的方式，为我所爱的人而战。
Original English>> Yes. She met my birth father. He was 21 years old. He was a high school dropout. Uh and he he had a drinking problem. And when he drank, he he uh became violent, became abusive. And uh one night um shortly after I was born, he got physical again. And and that night her love for me rose to meet that abuse from him. and she packed all our stuff into her little Ford Escort and she drove me to the hotel where she worked, begged the manager to let us stay in in one of the rooms until we found a little apartment in East Austin. And this this photo is taken in that apartment. There wasn't wasn't room for a nursery, so uh I slept in a crib in her closet. And she always says that she was very proud of that closet, like she decorated it with toys and pictures and and that that fighting spirit, I feel like she passed that along to me. And whether it was in the classroom or or in the state legislature, like I I have tried to fight for the people I love in the way that she fought for me.
>> 你怎么看？你对他有什么感觉？
Original English>> How do you feel? How do you feel about him?
>> 哎，你知道，我记得在我成长过程中，我对他感到非常愤怒。我觉得随着年龄的增长，我试着去理解导致他走到那一步的种种原因。我妈妈告诉我，他记不全月份的顺序，所以她觉得他可能有未被确诊的学习障碍，现在情况大不相同了，我们能够——作为一名前教师，我知道我们能够发现这些障碍并为有特殊需求的学生提供服务。但听起来他并没有得到这些支持，这会让人的人生偏离轨道，并可能导致药物滥用。可能会让人借酒消愁，接着就会导致暴力和虐待。所以，尽管这很难，我还是努力去认识到，正是因为他和我的妈妈，我才成为了现在的我。这是很难去妥协面对的一件事。我想很多家庭中遭遇过虐待的人，都因自己来自一个施虐者而内心挣扎。随着年龄的增长，我试着对此抱有更多的同理心，
Original English>> Well, you know, I I remember when I was growing up, I felt a lot of anger toward him. I feel like as I've gotten older, I've tried to appreciate that the things that got him to that point. Um my mom would tell me that he um didn't know the months in order and so she thinks that maybe he had a a learning disability that that went undiagnosed and things are very different now and we're able to I know as a as a former teacher that we're able to to to catch these disabilities and and serve our students with special needs. But it sounds like he didn't get that and that can derail someone and it can lead to substance abuse. can lead to to the bottle and and then that can lead to to violence and abuse. And so I try, as hard as it as it is, to recognize that I'm the person I am because of him and my mom. And that's a hard thing to wrestle with. Um I think a lot of people who've had abuse in their family um struggle with the fact that they come from an abuser. Um I've tried to have more compassion for it. Um as I've gotten older,
>> 然后你妈妈遇到了马克。是的。萨莱里卡（Salerica），我想他是你的养父。
Original English>> your mom then meets Mark. Yes. Salerica, who's your adoptive father, I guess.
>> 没错。是的。
Original English>> That's right. Yep.
>> 他是最终把你抚养长大的人。
Original English>> And he's the man that's ultimately raised you.
>> 当然。是的。
Original English>> Absolutely. Yeah.
>> 大不相同。
Original English>> Very different.
>> 是的。大不相同。
Original English>> Yes. Very different.
>> 相比于你的生父。
Original English>> Than your birth father.
>> 是的。
Original English>> Yeah.
>> 他在你的生活中扮演了怎样的角色？
Original English>> What role has he played in in your life?
>> 是的。你知道，我之前就说过，在我一生中发生过的最幸运的事就是遇见了马克·塔拉里科（Mark Telerico）。我当然也就不会坐在这个播客节目里了。他给了我他的姓氏。他把我当作亲生骨肉一样抚养成人。他可能是我认识的最优秀的人。诚实，关心他人，即使在没人的时候也坚持做正确的事。而且他确实把我塑造造就成了今天的这个人。
Original English>> Yeah. You know, I I've said before that the luckiest thing that ever happened to me in my whole life was meeting Mark Telerico. And I certainly would not be on this podcast. He gave me his last name. He raised me as his own. He is probably the best man that I know. um honest and cares about other people, does what's right when even when when no one is watching. Um and um and he has certainly shaped me into the the man that I am today.
>> 詹姆斯，如果我在你16岁的时候问你，如果我说：“你长大后想做什么？”你会怎么回答？
Original English>> If I'd asked you at 16 years old, James, if I said, "What do you want to be when you're older?" What would you have said?
>> 我一直对教育和当老师感兴趣，特别是在社会研究和历史方面。在我成长过程中，我的历史老师们就是那些让我保持在正轨上的人。他们让我对学校产生了兴趣。在那之前我并不是最优秀的学生。而且我很挣扎，在课堂上遵守纪律、做个好学生对我来说并不容易。我觉得正是对社会研究、对历史、对阅读的热情，最终让我保持在了正轨上。所以从那时起，我就确实想成为某种老师或教授，这样我也能为别人做到这一点。
Original English>> I had always been interested in education and being a teacher, particularly around social studies and and history. my history teachers when I was growing up, they're the ones who kept me on the straight and narrow. They got me interested in school. I was not the best student before then. Uh, and I struggled um, you know, to behave in class and and be a good student. And I feel like it was my passion for for social studies, for history, for reading that, you know, ultimately kept me on that track. And so from that point, I did want to go into into being some kind of a teacher or a professor so I could do that for other people.
我读到过，你在高中时被票选为“最有可能成为总统的人”。
Original EnglishI read that in high school you were voted most likely to become president.
>> 我想是的。是的。我在学校里的时候承担了领导角色。我是合唱团的团长，也是辩论队的队长，所以我想大家都看到了这一点。
Original English>> I think so. Yeah. Um when I was in in school I took on leadership roles. Um I was the the president of our choir and the captain of our debate team and and so I think people you know saw that. Are
>> 你有兴趣将来某天成为总统吗？
Original English>> are you interested in being president someday?
>> 我想没有。我曾经历过
Original English>> I don't think so. Um I I struggled a
### 竞选抉择与服事理念 很大程度上和竞选联邦参议员的决定有关。我之前曾考虑过退出政界，我想那大概是去年夏天，也就是我在州议会的第四个任期接近尾声的时候。我是在去年五月结束了议会会期，我对自己以往在议会中所做的工作感到非常自豪，但在政界工作确实非常艰难。所以，你们可能也知道，我还决定去读神学院……
Original English lot with the decision to run for the US Senate. I had considered getting out of politics um I guess as I guess it was last summer um after my my fourth term in the legislature was coming to a close. I finished the legislative session in in May of last year and I was really proud of the work that I had done in the legislature but it it is difficult work um being in politics and so I I you may you may know that I also um made the decision to go to seminary um
>> 也就是圣经学院。
Original English >> which is Bible school.
>> 是的，没错，去学习成为一名牧师，就像我祖父一样。嗯，这其实是我心里一直都有的一个念头。我记得当时见到了我的牧师——他在我两岁时为我施洗，从我小时候起就一直是我的牧师。他告诉我，竞选也可以是一种服事形式。如果你在给予人们希望，如果你在把人们凝聚在一起，如果你在帮助大家看到彼此身上以及自身内上帝的形象，那么你在政治语境中同样能够做到这一点。我之前从未真正从这个角度思考过。我过去总觉得这两件事彼此泾渭分明。而作为牧师，他当然帮了我很大的忙，让我化解了这两种天职之间的矛盾，并看到在当前的政治与公民对话语境下，它们完全可以合二为一。就像我们在得克萨斯州所开展的竞选活动，它正在给予人们希望，正在把以前未曾参与其中的人们带入这个进程。它正在跨越我们社区内部的重重分歧，把大家凝聚在一起；在最好的时刻，那确实让人觉得我们正在做一件非常非常特别且重要的事情。
Original English >> Yes. Yeah. studying to become a minister like my granddad. Um, and this is something that I'd always kind of had in the back of my mind. And I I remember meeting with my my pastor um who baptized me when I was 2 years old, has been my pastor since I was a little kid. And he told me that a campaign can also be a form of ministry. If if you're giving people hope, if you're bringing people together, if you're helping folks see the image of God in each other and in themselves, you can do that in a political context as well. And I had never really thought about that. I kind of kept these these things felt very distinct to me. And he of course as a pastor was helpful in in getting me to reconcile um these two vocs and see them as potentially one and the same given the state of our politics and our civic discourse. like the campaign that we're building in Texas is is giving people hope. It's bringing people into the process who haven't been engaged before. It's bringing people together across all the the many divisions in our in our communities and and at its best moments, it does feel like that we're doing something really really special and important.
### 任期限制与身份认同 >> 为什么这会排除你日后去争取总统职位的可能性呢？听起来……
Original English >> Why would that exclude you from someday also pursuing the role of presidency? It sounds like
>> 也许并不排除。但我想说的是，我认为那些从政时间过长的人身上存在一个问题。我已经说过，如果我有幸获得连任两个任期的机会，我只会做两任。因为我确实觉得，当人们恋栈不去，或者一心只想往更高的职位爬时，一切就都会变成为了保全自我。 变成为了积聚权力，而不是为了服务人民。对于每位民选官员来说，在这两个目标之间都是存在诱惑的，对吧？而据我在这一行做了八年的观察来看，你在这行待得越久，你的职位和你的身份认同就越会融合成一体，对吧？如果你长期担任参议员或者像我现在的州众议员，时间一长，它就成了你个人的全部。
Original English >> it may not. But I guess what I'm saying is that I think there's a problem with people who are in politics for too long. I've already said that I've um that I'll only be serving two terms uh if I'm blessed to to get the opportunity to serve for two terms because I do feel like when people hang on to these positions or are trying to reach for the next position, then everything becomes about self-preservation. It becomes about accumulating power rather than serving people. And and those are temptations, right, for every elected official between those two goals. And from what I've seen being in this now for eight years is the longer you're in this, the more you kind of get the office and your identity become kind of merged into one thing, right? Where being a senator or being a state rep, which I am now, if you're doing it for a really long time, it becomes who you are.
>> 所以它就不再是一项公职服务了。它变成了你的身份，而你会不惜一切代价去维护它，对吧？这意味着出卖自己的价值观，意味着容易滋生腐败。因此我想从一开始，我就试图时刻提醒自己这是一项服务。而且我认为我们需要更多在政治、政府和立法之外还有其他兴趣爱好的民选官员。我还有其他想做的事情，还有其他想要服务的途径，我想拥有一个平衡的生活。因此，我现在想做这件事，是因为我认为它在当下很重要；但之后我就想把接力棒交到别人手里，交给充满活力、有新想法和不同视角的人。我认为体制本来就应该这样运转。
Original English >> So it's it's no longer a service. It is your identity and you do whatever you can to protect that, right? Which means selling out your values. It means being susceptible to corruption. And so I guess starting out, I'm trying to like always remember that this is a service. And I think we need more elected officials who have other interests besides politics and government and um and legislating. There are other things that I want to do. And there are other ways I want to serve and I want to have a a well- balanced life, I guess. And so I I want to I want to do this cuz I think it's important right now. But then I want to like I want to give the reigns over to someone else. Um someone u who has fresh energy and new ideas and and a different perspective. And I think that's how this is supposed to work.
### 竞选最高职位与立法者角色 >> 你能想象自己未来某天去竞选国家最高职位——总统吗？
Original English >> Could you see yourself running someday for the highest office in the land president?
>> 不行，
Original English >> No,
>> 你不行。
Original English >> you couldn't.
>> 真的不行，我想象不出。我自己都很惊讶我正在做这件事——我正在竞选联邦参议员。而且我觉得要面对的事情太多了。我是说，我正在跑遍整个得克萨斯州，那是一个幅员辽阔、多元且复杂的州，我一直在不断了解自己未知的事物，对吧？我觉得自己在竞选之路上就像每天都在为明年一月的一场大考突击复习，去争取成为这个州的参议员。而在这次竞选过程中，我已经见识到了这有多么艰难，对吧？还有随之而来的各种攻击。这些攻击波及到你生活中的人，比如你的家人、我的女友；那些并未报名要担任公职或竞选公职的人，也同样成为了这些攻击承受的对象。所以我无法想象做这件事超过两个任期。
Original English >> No, I really don't. I'm surprised I'm doing this. I'm running for the US Senate. And I feel like there's so much. I mean, I'm I'm traveling the whole state of Texas, which is a a giant state, a diverse state, complex state, and I'm constantly learning about the things I don't know, right? And I feel like I'm just um every day on the campaign trail cramming for a big test in January of next year um to be the senator of this state. And and I've already seen over the course of this campaign how difficult it is, right? and the attacks that come your way. The attacks on people in your life like your family, my my girlfriend, people who didn't sign up to to be in office uh or run for office are also on the receiving end of these attacks. And so I can't imagine doing this for for longer than two terms.
>> 你认为压力和攻击是不去做某件有价值的事的理由吗？你知道，我只是在想，因为即便作为一名播客主持人，你也会承受很多——虽然是不同类型的压力。这包括压力、大量的攻击、大量的反馈等等。但在最后，我觉得我热爱自己所做的事，我也真心希望人们能从中受益。因此对我而言，无论面对怎样的压力和攻击，这本身就足以成为继续做下去的理由。
Original English >> Um do you think pressure and attacks are a reason not to do something that is worthy? You know, I'm just I'm wondering I just, you know, cuz even as a podcaster, you get lots of it's a different type of pressure. Like it's pressure, lots of attacks, lots of feedback, etc. But at the end of it, like I think I I I love what I get to do and I really hope that people benefit from it. So to me, that's reason enough to continue to do it really irrespective of the pressure and the attacks.
>> 我觉得这很有道理，但我认为有很多人想当总统。所以如果这是他们想要的工作，我们应该给这些人一个机会。坦白说，我认为自己培养出的技能更适合立法职位。
Original English >> I I think that's true, but I think there are lots of people who want to be president. Um, and so like we should give those people a shot if that's the job they want. I honestly think that my skill set that I've developed is better suited for a legislative position.
>> 对我们英国人来说，什么是立法职位？
Original English >> What's a legislative position for us Brits?
>> 比如，噢，是的。是这样，比如我现在是得克萨斯州的州众议员，在州议会下院任职。如果在这次选举后上帝保佑的话，我将进入联邦参议院任职，这意味着我是一个更大团队中的一员。我需要去建立联盟，需要去争取人们支持我这一方，需要在议会机构中去改变大家的想法和观念，而且我觉得自己非常擅长这一点。我是说，在得克萨斯州众议院，即便作为一名民主党人处于共和党主导的议会中，我在四个任期内也促成了60项跨党派法案的通过。这些法案绝不仅仅是象征性、浮于表面的立法。它们涉及住房、医疗、幼儿教育、教师薪资、财产税等真正影响我身边街坊邻里的重大法案。而这是一套专门的技能。有些人更适合担任行政长官，独立做出决断；而有些人则更适合作为大团队的一员共同协作，去完成宏大而有抱负的事业。
Original English >> Like Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, like uh right now I'm a a state rep in Texas, so I serve in the state house in the lower chamber. I would be um God willing after this election serving in the US Senate, which means I'm one member of a larger team of people. I am trying to build coalitions. I'm trying to bring people over to my side. I'm I'm trying to change hearts and minds in a in a in a body and I feel like I'm really good at that. I mean, in the state house in Texas, even as a Democrat, in a Republican dominated body, I've passed 60 bipartisan bills over four terms. And they're not just like symbolic, you know, superficial pieces of legislation. like these are major bills on housing and healthcare and early childhood education, teacher pay, property taxes, like the things that are really affecting my neighbors. And that is a skill set. Um, some people are better suited as, you know, as an executive making decisions on their own and some people are better, you know, working as part of a larger team to do something ambitious and big.
### 展望 2028 与体制改革 >> 你肯定对接下来的情况有自己的看法，你知道，因为我们正迈向2028年。如果看一下民调数据，以及伊朗在地缘政治上的局势，还有像人工智能等许多其他议题，民调似乎正变得对民主党稍微有利一些。关于下个选举周期你认为谁应该出任总统，你有看法吗？比如卡玛拉、加文、AOC，还有，我不知道，伯尼可能还会再次参选。皮特·布蒂吉格可能也会再次参选。
Original English >> You must have an opinion on um who you think might be, you know, cuz we head head towards 2028. If you look at the polling data and what's going on geopolitically with Iran and lots of other issues like AI, um it appears that there's a you know the polls are becoming a little bit more favorable for the Democrats. Do you have an opinion on who you think should be president uh in the next cycle? Camalas, there's Gavins, there's AOC's, there's I don't know, Bernie's probably going to run again. Um uh Pete Buddha Judge is probably going to run again.
>> 好的。鉴于我之前是在州一级层面工作，我并不私下认识他们中的许多人，但我真诚地认为你刚才提到的很多候选人，都很有潜力成为优秀的领导人并为这个国家做出贡献。老实说，变革正是我们当下最需要的。因此，无论谁能给这个政治体系带来变革，我都会感到振奋。我唯一想说的是，当候选人开始陆续涌现时，我会在他们身上寻找的特质是：谁在谈论体制性改革。 我关心的议题有很多：教育、医疗、住房，这些全都是我关心的议题，但在从事这项工作8年之后，我发现正是体制本身在阻碍我们在所有这些重要议题上取得进展。因此，当我思考评估自己将把票投给谁或支持谁的标准时，关键在于谁在思考并探讨全面的政治改革，包括消除政治中的大笔金钱影响、禁止选区划分不公、彻底改革最高法院。所有这些听起来像内部行话、像程序性的事情，必须成为首要任务，因为如果我们不修正体制本身，我们在所有关心的议题上都无法取得进展。 在……方面出现了一种非常耐人寻味的上升趋势……
Original English Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't given that I worked at the state level, I don't know a lot of these people personally, but I I honestly think a lot of the people that you just named, you know, have a lot of potential to be to be good leaders and to deliver for this country. And honestly, I'll, you know, change is what we need most right now. So, I'm excited for anyone who who's going to bring some some change to this political system. The only thing I would say is what I'm going to be looking for in in in the candidates as they start bubbling up is like who is talking about systemic reform. There's lots of issues that I care about. Education, healthcare, um housing, all things that I care about, but I've done this now for 8 years and I've seen that the system itself is what's preventing us from making progress on all of those important issues. And so when I'm kind of thinking about my criteria for evaluating who I'm going to vote for or who I'm going to support, it's going to be who is who is thinking and talking about comprehensive political reform, including getting big money out of our politics, um banning gerrymandering, overhauling the Supreme Court, all these things that feel like inside baseball, that feel like process, it has to be the top priority because if we don't fix the system itself, we're not going to make progress on all the issues we care about. There's been this really interesting rise in um
民主社会主义。
Original English democratic socialism.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 在过去——在过去一年左右的时间里。
Original English >> Over the last over the last year or so.
是的。
Original English Yeah.
>> 显而易见，曼达尼市长当选就任了，而且你知道，像 AOC 这样的人，以及更广泛的民主社会主义叙事确实非常受欢迎。对此你有什么看法？因为我觉得这里的民主党人，然后我觉得民主社会主义稍微不同于典型的那种更偏中间派的民主党理念。
Original English >> Obviously, Mayor Mandani has been elected to office and you know, people like AOC and just the broader democratic uh socialism narrative has been really popular. What's your perspective on that? Cuz it I think of like the the Democrats here then I think of democratic socialism as being slightly different from sort of typical more centrist dem democratic um philosophy.
我当然能理解这种愤怒来自何处。在德克萨斯州无论走到哪里，我都能听到这种声音。嗯，对，我的意思是无论我走到哪里，人们都在这种经济状况下挣扎求存。而且并不是说人们在买好衣服、买好车或度豪华假期。而是他们连生活必需品都负担不起，
Original English I I certainly understand where the um where the anger is coming from. I hear it everywhere I go across the state of Texas. Um yeah, I mean everywhere I go, people are are struggling to survive in this economy. And and it's not like people are buying nice clothes or nice cars or nice vacations. It's like they're struggling to afford necessities,
>> 杂货、汽油和公共事业缴费、处方药，也就是你每天生存所需要的东西。人们工作得比以往任何时候都辛苦，对吧？有些人做着多份工作，却依然入不敷出。根据我的经验，这在年轻人身上尤为明显，我同辈的千禧一代，但也包括 Z 世代，因为我们曾被承诺过，如果我们努力工作、遵守规则、去上学读书，我们就能实现美国梦。而那是一个谎言，因为买房实在太贵了。组建家庭、要孩子实在太贵了。舒适地退休也太昂贵了。这是因为体制本身已经被操纵来对付劳动者了。 我会说这可以追溯到 20 世纪 70 年代。事实上，你可以确切指出一份被称为“鲍威尔备忘录”的文件，1971 年的。他当时是一名公司律师，后来被任命为最高法院大法官。但如果你读一下这份备忘录，它基本上就是一份关于大企业利益集团如何着手拆解此前几十年建立起来的“伟大社会”和“新政”的蓝图。因此，当时美国企业界有一种感觉，认为需要制定一个战略计划、一场政治运动来保护他们的权力并集聚更多权力。 这份蓝图指出，大企业利益集团将联合起来。他们将在我们的政治中投入巨资，收买两党的政客，在媒体中抬高大企业的声音，任命立场偏向他们的法官。它贯穿了一整套全面的战略，旨在扭转在“新政”和“伟大社会”中取得的成果。 然后你开始看到从 70 年代末、80 年代初开始出现的涓滴经济学，对吧，为最顶层的人减税，而忘掉我们其余所有人。这真正成为了这个国家过去 50 年、过去五个十年的写照。这与我们在 20 世纪中叶看到的情况相比是一个重大转变，那时我们的政府投资于教育和医疗保健，投资于住宅和公路。就像我们共同成长一样。我们在 20 世纪 50 年代和 1960 年代拥有世界上最庞大、最强大的中产阶级。而现在，这个中产阶级正在整个德克萨斯州、在整个国家消失，人们对此充满了愤怒。而且这不仅局限于民主党人或民主社会主义者。它实际上跨越了整个政治光谱。 人们正在寻找愿意去对抗那个破败腐败体制的领导人。不是修修补补，不是渐进式改良。人们在寻求彻底的变革，而且他们渴望这种变革是完全合理的，因为建立一个奖励劳动而非财富的经济体是完全可能的。这非常有可能。我的意思是，经济不过是我们所做选择的集合体，尤其是政策选择，我们可以做出与过去五十年完全不同的选择。在我看来，涓滴经济学不是一种理论，它是偷窃。 1970 年，中产阶级家庭占全美总收入的 62%，而高收入家庭占 29%。今天，这些角色发生了反转。高收入家庭占全美总收入的 50% 以上，而中产阶级仅占 42%。如果我们看一下低收入家庭，自 20 世纪 70 年代以来，生活在低收入群体类别中的人口增加了 5%。中等收入类别减少了 10%，而高收入阶层增加了 5%。因此演变的方向是：中产阶级的人口减少了，低收入人群变多了，高收入人群也变多了。
Original English >> groceries and gas and utilities, prescription drugs, that the things that you that you need to survive every day. And people are working harder than they've ever worked, right? Some of them are working multiple jobs and they can't make those ends meet. And this is especially pronounced among young people in my experience, my fellow millennials, but also Gen Z, because we were promised that if we worked hard, if we played by the rules, if we went to school, if we studied, that we could live the American dream. And that was a lie because it is way too expensive to buy a home. It's way too expensive to to start a family, to have kids. It's too expensive to retire comfortably. And it's because the system itself has been rigged against working people. And I would say I would go back to the 1970s. Um, in fact, you can you can pinpoint this one document called the Powell memo uh 1971. He was a corporate lawyer who later got uh appointed to the Supreme Court. But if you read this memo, it's basically a blueprint for how corporate interests can start to dismantle the Great Society and the New Deal um which had come the decades before. And so there was a feeling that among corporate America that there needed to be a a strategic plan, a political uh campaign to protect their power and amass more power. And so the the blueprint says that corporate interests are going to unite. They're going to spend massive amounts of money in our politics buying politicians in both parties, elevate corporate voices in media, appoint sympathetic judges. It goes through kind of a a whole comprehensive strategy for how to reverse the gains made in the New Deal in the Great Society. and and you start to see starting in the late '7s, early ' 80s, trickle down economics, right, of cutting taxes for the people at the very top and forgetting about the rest of us. And that has really been the story of the last 50 years in this country, the last five decades. And that's a major change from what we saw in the middle of the 20th century when our government invested in in education and healthcare, in homes and highways. Like we we grew together. We had the largest, strongest middle class in the world in the 1950s and 1960s. And now that that middle class is disappearing all over Texas, all over this country and there's a lot of anger about that. And it's not just limited to Democrats or Democratic socialists. It really spans the political spectrum. And people are looking for they're looking for leaders who are going to take on that broken corrupt system. Um, not nibble around the edges, not incremental improvements. People are looking for wholesale change and and their their right to to want that change because it is possible to build an economy that rewards work instead of wealth. That's very possible. I mean the economy is just a collective a collection of choices that we make particularly policy choices and we can make different choices than the ones that we've made for the last five decades. Trickle down economics in my view is not a theory it's theft. In 1970, middle-class households held 62% of all US aggregate income, while upper income households held 29%. Today, those roles have flipped. Upper income households capture over 50% of total US income compared to just 42% held by the middle class. And if we look at lower income families, there's been a 5% increase since the 1970s in the sort of cohort of people living in the sort of low-inccome category. The middle income category has reduced by 10% and the upper income class has increased by 5%. So the direction of travel is that there's less people in the middle class, there's more people in the lower income and there's more people in higher income.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
### 扭转经济差距与重振传统资本主义 >> 一个人该如何逆转这种局面呢？因为你知道，无论美国曾经是怎样的经济体制，它都带来了创新、GDP 增长和生产力。你如何扭转这种变化？ 嗯，我所谈论的并不是对经济的一种激进新愿景。我谈论的是我们如何回到 1950 和 60 年代的经济，那时我们作为一个国家共同成长。事实上，我认为当我们共同成长时，生产力和创新更为显著。我认为从数据和历史来看都非常清楚：一个投资于其人民的国家，比一个抛弃人民的国家发展得更快。 所以，具体来说，我在谈论什么？我在谈论提高最低工资，扩大加班费，以便劳动者能够真正从他们创造的财富中受益。你知道，资本主义曾经是一项创新。我认为我们现在忘记了这一点。那种你应该得到回报、你应该因你的付出、你的劳动而获得报酬的想法，曾是一个革命性的概念。而这并不是我们今天所拥有的。我们拥有的不是资本主义，至少在这个国家不是。我们拥有的是裙带资本主义。
Original English >> How does one reverse that? Because you know whatever the sort of economic system has been in the United States, it's resulted in innovation and GDP growth and productivity. How do you reverse this change? Well, what I'm talking about is not a radical new vision for the economy. I'm talking about how do we get back to the economy of the 1950s and60s where we grew together as a nation. And in fact, the the productivity, the innovation was, I think, more significant when we were growing together. I I think the math and the past make it very clear that a country that invests in its people grows faster than a country that abandons them. And so, specifically, what am I talking about? I'm talking about raising the minimum wage, uh, expanding overtime pay so that workers can actually benefit from the wealth they create. You know, capitalism was an innovation. We I think we forget that now. The idea that you should be rewarded, that you should be compensated for your time, for your work, that was a revolutionary idea. And that's not what we have today. We we don't have capitalism, at least not in this country. We have crony capitalism.
>> 那是什么？那究竟是什么？ 在这种经济中，收益流向了那些有能力花钱获取准入渠道、有能力出资收买政客以谋求控制权的人。马丁·路德·金博士曾说过类似的话。他说：“我们为富人实行社会主义，而为穷人实行严酷的个人主义。”想想在经济大衰退中的救助方案，对吧？当华尔街许多把我们卷入那场混乱的人，他们得到了黄金降落伞，对吧？他们受到了政府的照顾。但是外面的单亲妈妈们，建筑工人们，护士和教师们，他们在这个经济体制中勉强生存，而对他们却没有救助，对吧？对他们来说就是严酷的个人主义。 因此，我唯一的观点是，我们可以创造一个让我们共同成长的经济体，让企业对“股东”拥有更广泛的定义，对吧？因为你想想通用电气，想想通用汽车、福特，这些来自 20 世纪的伟大美国企业。他们认为股东包括他们的员工、员工的家属，以及他们运营所在的社区。因此他们感受到一种责任感，一种远不止关乎他们利润底线的企业价值观。 所以这就是我试图让我们回归的目标。我试图让我们回到一个我们对人民进行投资的节点，我们拥有增长，但那是共享的增长。我们拥有竞争，但那是公平的竞争，而不是像我们今天看到的垄断和合并。所以，我想我试图让我们回归的是传统的资本主义，在那种模式下，人们再次凭借自己的劳动获得报酬。而且这并不是一个仅让富人和人脉广泛者获利的体制。
Original English >> What's What is that? where the gains in this economy go to those who can afford to buy access, who can afford to buy politicians for control. Do Dr. King said something similar. He said, "We have socialism for the rich and we have rugged individualism for the poor." You think about the the bailout, right, in in um the Great Recession, right? When a lot of the people on Wall Street who got us into that mess, they got golden parachutes, right? They got taken care of by the government. But you got single moms out there, you got construction workers, you got nurses and teachers who are barely surviving in this economy and there's no bailout for them, right? It's rugged individualism for them. And so my only point is that we can create an economy where we all grow together, where corporations have a broader definition of shareholder, right? Because you think about GE, you think about GM, Ford, these great American companies from the 20th century. They believed that shareholders included their workers, the families of their workers, the communities in which they operated. So they felt an obligation, a corporate ethos that was about much more than just their bottom line. And so that's what I'm trying to get us back to. I'm trying to get us back to a point where we are investing in our people and and we have growth, but it's shared growth. We have competition, but it's fair competition, not monopolies and consolidation like we see today. So, I I guess what I'm trying to get us back to is old school capitalism where again people are compensated for their work. And it and it's it's not a system that benefits the wealthy and the well-connected only.
>> 如果你在德克萨斯州获胜，你认为如何能从参议员的职位上做到这一点？
Original English >> And how do you think you can do that from a Senate position if you are to win in Texas?
>> 是的。我们刚才谈到了一些政策，最低工资和加班费，但我还认为我们必须在这个国家重建工会。你几乎可以将中产阶级的瓦解与有组织劳工的瓦解对应起来。这其实并不是一个由政府主导的解决方案。这是关乎在工作场所赋予劳动者权力，使他们能够与雇主协商以争取更高的薪酬、更好的福利和更好的工作条件。 我认为我们在应对债务危机方面必须做得更多，无论是个人家庭债务——该项债务在今年第一季度创下历史新高——不管是医疗债务，还是学生贷款、信用卡债务，我们也应该谈谈国债。因为在我看来，两者都是道德上的紧急事态。我还认为我们必须在支持家庭和儿童方面投入更多。我认为投资于教育。
Original English >> Yeah. So, we we talked about a few policies um of minimum wage and and overtime pay, but I also think we have to rebuild labor unions in this country. You can almost track the destruction of the middle class with the destruction of organized labor. And this is not a government solution really. This is about empowering workers in the workplace to be able to negotiate with their bosses for better pay, for better benefits, for better working conditions. I think we've got to do more to tackle the debt crisis, both personal household debt, which reached an all-time high in the first quarter of this year. Um whether it's medical debt, um whether it's student debt, credit card debt, and we should also talk about the national debt. Um because both are are moral emergencies in my opinion. I also think we got to do more on on supporting families and children. I think investing in education.
### 政治体制、腐败与经济公平 《退伍军人权利法案》（GI Bill）在20世纪中叶改变了游戏规则，正是它帮助造就了庞大的中产阶级。自那部法案以来，我们在高等教育领域就再也没有见过那种规模的投资了。你知道，我认为我们必须扩大儿童税收抵免，这项政策就在几年前将儿童贫困率减半，但随后却任由其到期失效。那些正在生育子女的新建家庭，如果他们想要过上那种美国梦的生活，就需要额外的支持。我们可以做到这一点，我们可以做到这一切，只要我们愿意对处于最顶层的人征税，让他们承担应缴的税额。
Original English The GI Bill was a gamecher in the middle of the 20th century and it's what helped build that middle class. We haven't seen we haven't seen an investment in higher education at that scale um since the GI Bill. You know, I think we got to expand the child tax credit which cut child poverty in half just a few years ago and then it was allowed to expire. New families who are who are having kids like they need extra support if they're going to live that American dream. And we can do that and we can do we can do all of this if we just were willing to tax the people at the very top and make them pay their fair share in taxes.
>> 考虑到反对你刚才所言的各方势力，这是否是说起来容易做起来难？你知道，有大公司和个人正在游说反对你刚才说的这些。
Original English >> Is that easier said than done in in light of the forces that are opposed to what you've just said? There are, you know, big companies and individuals lobbying against what you've just said.
>> 确实如此。而这正是核心所在。破损的政治体制导致了破损的经济体制。我认为事态就是朝这个方向发展的。这也是为什么我之前说过，我首先寻求的是全面的政治改革，因为要打破经济层面的不公，让它再次惠及我们所有人，让我们所有人再次共同成长，让劳动获得回报，唯一的办法就是清除我们政治体制中的腐败——在这个体制中，企业特殊利益集团、企业政治行动委员会、超级政治行动委员会在政府中拥有着不应有的巨大影响力，就像现在这样。因为在当下，我的意思是，你知道，我想到了得克萨斯州，有一位来自宾夕法尼亚州的州外亿万富翁给了我们州长1200万美元，因为我们在得州没有竞选捐款上限。 他给了我们州长1200万美元，用以通过一项私立学校代金券骗局，这正在从得州资金不足的公立学校中抽走资金。我们在全美人均学生教育经费方面排名第43位。这是把那些税款送给那些孩子已经在私立学校就读的富裕父母。所以，这完全是将财富从底层和中层转移到处于最顶层的人手中。这一切全都是因为我们政治体制中的腐败。所以，我认为在我们摆脱政治和政府中的腐败之前，我们无法打破经济上的不公体制。我们必须拥有一个属于人民、由人民掌控、为人民服务的政府，而不是像我们现在这样，是一个属于、由并为企业特殊利益集团服务的政府。 得克萨斯州州长腐败吗？
Original English >> Yes. And that's the point. It is a broken political system which leads to a broken economic system. That that is the direction that I think this moves in. And it's why I said earlier, I'm looking for comprehensive political reform first because the only way to unrig the economy so that it benefits all of us again so that we're all growing together again, that work is rewarded, is if you clean up the corruption in our political system where corporate special interests, corporate packs, super PACs don't have the same influence in our government as they do now. Cuz cuz right now, I mean, you know, I think about in Texas, there was an out ofstate billionaire from Pennsylvania who gave our governor $12 million because we don't have campaign contribution limits in Texas. He gave our governor $12 million to pass a private school voucher scam, which is taking money out of our underfunded public schools in Texas. We rank 43rd in the nation in per student education funding. It's giving those tax dollars to wealthy parents who already have their kids in private school. So, it is a it is literally a transfer of wealth from the bottom and the middle to the people at the very top. All because of corruption in our political system. So, I don't think we're going to unrig this economy until we get rid of corruption in our politics and in our government. We have to have a government of by and for the people instead of a what we have now, which is a government of, by and for corporate special interests. Is the Texas governor corrupt?
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yes.
>> 这个定论相当沉重。
Original English >> That's a strong strong thing to say.
>> 是的。我的意思是，你知道，还是那句话，体制本身是腐败的。问题在于哪些政客屈服于这种体制，而哪些没有。我对我们政治中的具体人物其实没那么大兴趣。我更关心的，是这个体制。
Original English >> Yeah. I mean, you know, again, the system itself is corrupt. The the question is which politicians um succumb to that and which ones don't. And I'm less interested in the personalities in our politics. And I'm much more interested in the system
>> 因为在很大程度上，政客是理性行动者。政客在很大程度上都在试图连任。问题是摆在他们面前的是什么样的激励机制？体制摆在他们面前的是什么样的激励？而在当下，如果你看看巨额资金的影响力、公民联合案（Citizens United），如果你看看杰利蝾螈与选区重划，如果你看看两党制，所有这些社交媒体、传统媒体，所有这一切构成的整个生态系统，在设计上就激励着极端主义和腐败。所以，你可以赶走得克萨斯州州长，你可以赶走任何你想赶走的人，另一个人不过是会接替他们的位置。如果你没有修复激励机制，如果你没有修复这个体制，你就会得到相同的结果。
Original English >> because like politicians are rational actors for the most part. politicians are trying to get reelected for the most part. The question is what incentives are put in front of them? What incentives are is the system putting in front of them? And right now, if you look at the influence of big money, Citizens United, if you look at gerrymandering and redistricting, if you look at the two-party system, all of these social media, traditional media, all of all of this whole ecosystem incentivizes extremism and corruption by design. And and so you can you can get rid of the governor of Texas. You can get rid of whoever you want. Someone else is just going to take their place. And if you haven't fixed the incentives, if you haven't fixed the system, you're going to get the same result.
### 亿万富翁、公共投资与不平等问题 >> 许多杰出的创始人，你知道，他们碰巧也是亿万富翁， 是的。 >> 越来越多地选择得克萨斯作为他们的家园。我想到埃隆·马斯克建立——
Original English >> A lot of the the great founders, you know, who happen to be also be billionaires Yeah. >> have chosen Texas as their home increasingly. I think about Elon Musk building
>> 我想特斯拉和SpaceX都在——
Original English >> I think both Tesla and SpaceX in
>> 在你们州。
Original English >> in your state.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 你如何将这两个世界协调融合起来？因为，你知道，埃隆·马斯克现在是一个万亿富翁了。我想是世界上首位万亿富翁。你谈到了不平等。我认为他被一些人看作是不平等现象的典型代表，因为他在账面上如此富有。再者，这又不是说他在银行里有现金，但——
Original English >> How do you sort of marry these two worlds together? Because, you know, Elon Musk is now a trillionaire. I think the world's first trillionaire. You're talking about inequality. I think he's been held up by some as the sort of like poster child of inequality because he's so rich on paper. Again, it's not like he has cash in the bank, but it's
>> 这又不是说他在银行里有一万亿，但他的净资产非常高。
Original English >> it's not like he has a trillion in the bank, but his net worth is so high.
>> 那么，你如何吸引像埃隆·马斯克这样的人来到这个州，
Original English >> So, how do you attract someone like Elon Musk to the state
>> 建立他的公司，并雇佣他现在雇佣的这些人，同时又在这个州追求——
Original English >> to build his companies and to employ the people that he does while also pursuing
>> 在这同时追求平等？你如何将这些事情结合起来？是的，有些人问过我是否在妖魔化亿万富翁，我说我认为我是在将亿万富翁人性化，因为对我们自己的居民中的一员成为世界首位万亿富翁，而五分之一的得克萨斯儿童却生活在贫困之中，对我来说这是一种精神疾病。我希望人们取得成功。我为特斯拉感到骄傲。我为整个得克萨斯州、整个国家的伟大企业感到自豪。当企业成功时，人们就会成功，我完全支持这一点。但是在我们这辈子还有人挨饿的情况下，积累超过一百辈子可能都花不完的财富，对我来说，这意味着我们没有完全实现我们完整的人性。
Original English >> equality in the state at the same time? How do you marry those things? Yeah, some people have asked me if I'm demonizing billionaires and I've said that I think I'm humanizing billionaires because for one of our own residents to become the world's first trillionaire while one in five Texas children live in poverty to me that is a spiritual sickness. I want people to be successful. I'm proud of of Tesla. Uh I'm proud of of the great businesses across the state of Texas, across this country. Um, when businesses are successful, people are successful, and I'm all for that. But to accumulate more wealth than you could possibly spend in a hundred lifetimes while we have people starving in this one, to me, that that means we're not um fulfilling our full humanity.
>> 你会采取什么措施来阻止这种情况发生？
Original English >> What would you have done to stop that happening?
>> 嗯，我的意思是，在这个国家曾经有一段时期，我想是在20世纪50年代，最高边际税率曾达到90%。你知道，我认为不一定非要那么高，但我们过去拥有一套政治体制和经济体制，能更公平地分配我们的劳动成果——
Original English >> Well, I mean, we at one point in this country, we had, I think it was in the 1950s, had a top marginal tax rate of 90%. I you know I don't think it needs to be that high but we used to have a a political system and an economic system that more fairly distributed the fruits of our labor
>> 就具体这一点而言。即使税率是90%，埃隆依然会是一个万亿富翁。
Original English >> on that particular point. If there was a tax rate of 90% Elon would still be a trillionaire.
>> 是的。嗯，我的意思是，当你任由如此集中的财富和权力变得如此失控时，问题就在这里。我认为在埃隆这个例子上特别让人感到不安的是，特斯拉之所以成功是因为纳税人的资金，对吧？特斯拉获得了来自联邦政府的投资，这就是它能如此成功的原因。因此，如果说我们大家都在投资特斯拉，如果我们大家都在投资埃隆·马斯克，或者随便挑一个你的亿万富翁，对吧？我们的大多数亿万富翁，你知道，他们上了由我们资助的学校，他们行驶在由我们资助的高速公路上。他们受益于我们大家共同建设的基础设施。我们并不是——我们并不是说他们不能取得成功。我们所说的只是确保你回馈促成你成功的国家。确保为后面走上来的人搭好梯子，对吧？我的意思是，我认为我们应该去投资车库里的首席执行官，并给他们一个机会，而不是把赌注押在坐在超级游艇上的首席执行官身上，因为下一家伟大的美国公司将从那里诞生。我发现，当人们谈论支持商业时，那通常意味着支持大商业，对吧？就像所有的税收减免都流向了庞大的跨国公司，你知道，沃尔玛，我们基本上是通过医疗补助（Medicaid）在补贴沃尔玛，因为他们没有给自己的员工提供优质医疗保障。所以，是我们纳税人在为沃尔玛员工提供优质医疗保障。因此，这又是对富人实行社会主义，对我们其余人实行残酷的个人主义。而我试图回归的，是一种让特斯拉的员工、让创造那些财富的人们也能从这种繁荣中受益的经济。这并不是一个激进的设想。这是我们曾经拥有过的体制。而且我们曾拥有世界上生产力最高、最具创新力的经济体。我认为我们可以通过更好的税收政策、更好的医疗政策、更好的教育政策来重建它。公共政策能够帮助我们消除这个体制的操控，使得那些生产力的增长、被创造出来的财富能够在我们社区的人民之间更加均匀地分享。
Original English >> Yeah. Well, I mean this is this is the problem when you let so much concentrated wealth and power get so out of control. And I think the thing that really upsets people particularly about the Elon example is that Tesla was successful because of taxpayer dollars, right? Tesla got investment from the federal government which is why it has been so successful. And so if we're all going to invest in Tesla in Tesla, if we're going to invest in Elon Musk or pick your billionaire, right? Most of our billionaires, you know, they went to schools that we funded, they drove on highways that we funded. They benefited from infrastructure that we all built together. And we're not we're not saying they can't be successful. All we're saying is that make sure you give something back to the country that made your success possible. Bring make sure there's a ladder for the next guy coming up, right? I mean, I I think that we should be investing and and taking a chance on the CEOs in their garage, not the CEOs on their mega yacht, because that's where the next great American company is going to come from. I've seen that when people talk about being pro business, what that usually means is being pro big business, right? Like all the tax breaks go to the giant multinational corporations, you know, Walmart, we basically subsidize Walmart through Medicaid because they don't give their employees quality healthcare. So, we the taxpayers are giving Walmart employees quality healthcare. So, again, socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the rest of us. And and what I'm trying to get back to is is an economy where where the folks who work for Tesla, the folks who who generate that wealth are also getting to benefit from that prosperity. And this is not a radical vision. It's what we had before. And we had the most productive innovative economy in the in the world. And I think we can rebuild that through better tax policy, um better health care policy, better education policy. like public policy can help us unrig the system so that those productivity gains, the wealth that's created is more is more evenly shared um across people in in our communities.
>> 因为在埃隆的个案中，他的财富是他所拥有的公司中的股权价值。那不一定就是银行账户里的现金。
Original English >> Cuz in the case of Elon, his wealth is equity value in the companies that he owns. It's not necessarily cash in a bank account.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 所以我想知道，任何州长、政府或参议员能够做些什么来——
Original English >> So I I'm wondering what what any governor or government or senator could do to
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
重新分配那些原本可能会，你知道，阻止他从一开始就成为万亿富翁的财富。
Original English redistribute that which would have, you know, prevented him from becoming a trillionaire in the first place.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yes.
>> 当并不一定发生实际交易的时候。这又不是说他必然抛售了大量的那部分股权。
Original English >> When there isn't necessarily a transaction taking place. It's not like he's necessarily um sold down huge amounts of that equity.
>> 我的意思是，我们在这次竞选中谈到的是填补惠及这个国家最富有阶层的税收漏洞。你知道，我们的税法里有一些离奇的条款，
Original English >> I mean, what we've talked about uh on this campaign is is closing tax loopholes that benefit the wealthiest in this country. You know, there's there's crazy stuff in our tax code that
### 税收漏洞与财富差距 说你可以把你的私人飞机、你的超级游艇当作商业开支来注销，
Original English says you can write off your private jet, your mega yacht as business expenses,
>> 对吧？附带权益漏洞，资本利得。我是说，我们现有的这整套税收体系，真的让处于最顶层的人在不交任何税的情况下积累和聚敛更多财富。我的意思是，我们……我之前看到，如果我们只是把最富有的 1% 人口所欠的税收上来——不增收任何新税，仅仅收回已经欠下的税款——每年就能筹集大约 1720 亿美元。这足以消除美国的贫困——
Original English >> right? the carried interest loophole, capital gains. I mean, this whole tax system that we have now really allows the people at the very top to accumulate and amass more wealth without any taxation. I mean, we I was reading that if we just collected the taxes that the top 1% owes, no new taxes, just collecting what's already owed, it would raise something like $172 billion uh every year. And that's enough to end poverty in America
>> 他们本就已经欠下的税。
Original English >> that that they already owe.
>> 但如果他们没交，按理说他们会被关进监狱，不是吗？如果他们……
Original English >> But if they hadn't paid it, presumably they're going to be in jail, aren't they? If they
>> 并不是。我是说，第一，根本没有任何资源实际投入到打击这些逃税者的行动中。
Original English >> Well, no. I mean, one, there's there are no resources that actually go to cracking down on these tax cheats.
>> 所以，你的意思是他们在利用漏洞。
Original English >> So, they're using loopholes, what you're saying.
>> 对。制度中的漏洞。额，还有那些直接作弊的人也是。两方面都有。既包括你可以借此逃脱惩罚的合法化漏洞，但也包括那些明知道根本不会有人来查办他们的人。我只是以此为例，说明这个制度对那些有钱收买政客的人、那些有能力讨好民选官员的人、那些能够制定游戏规则从而让自己成为唯一赢家的人，给予了多么大的好处。我认为这正是让人们感到愤怒的地方。我认为这正是各政治阵营的人都感到厌倦的地方。这不是……我不认为我说的是民主党特有的观点。我真真切切地感觉到，这个国家的大多数人，他们希望获得成功。他们希望企业蒸蒸日上。他们希望商界领袖蓬勃发展，但他们不希望我们经济中的所有增长成果，都以牺牲我们的利益为代价，只流入极少数最顶层的人手中。眼下，埃隆·马斯克、马克·扎克伯格和杰夫·贝佐斯这三个人拥有的财富，已经超过了整个中产阶级。就是这样。我是说，这太疯狂了。你这么说并不代表你就是社会主义者或共产主义者。这太疯狂了。
Original English >> Yeah. Loopholes in the system. Um, and and people who are cheating the system, too. It's both. It's both the legalized loopholes that you can get away with, but it's also people who just know they're not going to get no one's going to crack down on them. And so I just say that as an example of how much this system benefits those who can afford to buy politicians, those who can uh afford to curry favor with elected officials, those who can who can write the rules of the game so that they're the only ones who win. And that's what I think people are angry about. That's what I think people are tired of across the political spectrum. This is I don't think this is a democratic thing that I'm saying. I really do get the sense that most people in this country, they they want success. They want businesses to thrive. They want business leaders to thrive, but they don't want all the gains in our economy just to go to a few guys at the very top at our expense. Right now, it's three men, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jeff Bezos, who now own more wealth than the entire middle class. Like that. I mean, that that's crazy. And and you're not a socialist or a communist if you say that. That's crazy.
>> 那么，到了这一步，对此你会怎么做呢？历史……你知道，在历史上本来是可以采取行动的，但现在我们已经处在这个局面了。
Original English >> So, what would you do about that though? like at this point. So historic, you know, in in the historically you could have done something, but now this is where we are.
>> 是的……
Original English >> Y
>> 那你打算如何重新分配这些财富呢？
Original English >> So how would you redistribute that wealth?
>> 首先要建立一个公平的税收体系。
Original English >> A fair tax system to start with.
>> 额，这些人很多都不交税，因为他们是以自己的股权作抵押去贷款。
Original English >> Um they don't these a lot of these guys don't pay tax cuz then they're taking loans against their equity.
>> 我是说，有各种各样的想法，比如能够不仅对收入征税，也对财富征税，以确保你所拥有的那些资产得到公平的征税。额……
Original English >> I mean there's all kinds of ideas for you know um being able to uh to tax not only income but also wealth to make sure that those assets that you have are being taxed fairly. Um
>> 那么你是支持财富税的。我对我们究竟能落实什么样的财富税很感兴趣。我知道在落实上存在挑战，但我认为我们应该探索一切途径，让这个国家最富有的人缴纳他们应付的公平份额。我是说，单看占收入的百分比——如果我们只想讨论收入的话——得克萨斯州的工薪阶层缴纳的税款占他们到手薪水（take-home pay）的比例，都要高于我们州最富有的人。而这简直……
Original English >> so you you're pro wealth tax. I I'm interested in what kind of wealth taxes we could actually implement. I know there's challenges on on implementation, but I think we should explore every avenue to make the wealthiest people in this country pay their fair share. I mean, just as a percentage of income, if we just want to talk about income, I mean, working Texans are paying more as a percentage of their of their take-home pay than the wealthiest people in our state. And that just
### 裙带资本主义与联邦层面的应对 >> 怎么会这样？税率是多少？我的意思是，问题就在于，税收体系已经被那些有能力花钱向政客购买接触渠道与控制权的人改造了。因此，这就是为什么我说我们现在拥有的不是资本主义，而是裙带资本主义，因为它奖励的是那些能够影响政治进程的人，因为正是民选官员在制定这些规则，对吧？是他们在制定税法，在确立教育政策，在确立医疗政策。如果你能收买这些民选官员，让他们不再为人民服务，而是为……你知道，为他们的金主服务，那你就会得到我们目前拥有的这种被操纵的系统。我认为这正是让人们真正……真正深感幻灭的地方。他们只是觉得整件事已经无可救药地腐败了。当人们听到财富税或者普遍提高税收时，反驳的观点之一是这些成功人士、这些亿万富翁会直接搬到另一个州。而且我认为在过去的几个月里，因为加州曾威胁要征收财富税，很多……你知道，很多著名的、知名的创始人离开了加州，世人皆知的马克·扎克伯格们，我认为还有另外几个人，我这里有一长串名单。但这是否也是你在一个日益全球化的世界中所考虑的事情？况且在如今的世界中，你知道这些创始人的企业可以在互联网上线运行，他们可以非常容易地把居住地迁往一个更具优惠条件的州，无论是佛罗里达州还是其他地方。我的意思是，很多创始人搬到得克萨斯州的主要原因之一，就是因为这里有一项……是什么来着？0% 的州税。
Original English >> how come what's the tax rate? I mean, this is the problem is that is that the tax system has been has been transformed by those who can afford to pay politicians for for access and for control. And so, it's why I say we don't have capitalism, we have crony capitalism because it is rewarding those who can influence the political process because it's elected officials who write those rules, right? Who create the tax code, who um set education policy, who set healthcare policy. And if you can buy off those elected officials so they no longer work for the people but work, you know, work for their donors, then you get the rig system that we have currently. And that's what I think people are really are really uh disillusioned about. They just feel like the whole thing is is hopelessly corrupt. One of the the rebuttals people have when they hear about like wealth taxes or just raising taxes generally um is that these successful people, these billionaires will just move to a different state. And I think over the last couple of months because California was threatening to do a wealth tax there's been a lot of the you know the famous well-known founders have departed California the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world I think a few others I've got a long list of them here but but is that something you think about as well in a world that is increasingly global but also just where you know these founders can have their businesses online on the internet they can quite easily move their residents to a state that's more preferential whether it's Florida or other places. I mean, much of the reason why a lot of founders have moved to Texas is because there's a what is it? A 0% state tax.
>> 我们没有州个人所得税。是的。
Original English >> We don't have a state income tax. Yes.
>> 这是件好事。而且我……而且我也不想要州个人所得税。我们的公民承担的财产税和销售税已经够重了。但这正是我们需要良好的联邦政策的原因，对吧？这也正是各州无法真正独自解决这一问题的原因。另外，我……我和马克·库班在达拉斯-沃斯堡一起参加了一场活动。额，你知道，主持人对我们两个进行了采访，当时有点尴尬，因为她说：“詹姆斯，你对亿万富翁说过一些严厉的话，而现在就有一位亿万富翁正坐在你身旁。”我开玩笑说，马克·库班是其中的好人之一。意思是马克·库班用他的财富、他的权力和他的影响力来帮助劳动人民。如果你看过他在处方药方面所做的工作，Cost Plus Drugs 是一家伟大的公司，它正在切实地让人们更容易负担得起药物。在整个美国历史上也是如此。如果我想到富兰克林·罗斯福，想到鲍比·肯尼迪——他们是我的政治偶像。他们都是信托基金宝贝（trust fund babies）。他们就是他们那个时代的亿万富翁。但他们利用自己的力量去挑战这些正在伤害人民的体制。而且这不仅仅是通过慈善。慈善固然重要，但更重要的是解决那些让慈善变得不可或缺的体制性问题。而这正是像马克·库班这样的人正在做的事情。所以我再次重申，我并不是要……我无意惩罚成功。我无意消灭亿万富翁。我所希望的，只是确保我们重新像一个共同体一样作为一个国家去行动，确保我们彼此负有责任。额，你可以在取得成功的同时，既缴纳你应得的公平份额，又确保我们在向年轻的创业者投资。我们拥有一套能够赋能下一位杰出商业领袖的教育体系。
Original English >> Which is a good thing. And I and I don't want a a state income tax. Our citizens are taxed enough with property and sales taxes. But this is the reason we need good federal policy, right? And it's the reason why states can't really tackle this problem on their own. And again, I uh I had an event with Mark Cuban uh up in up in Dallas Fort Worth. Um, and you know, the the moderator interviewed both of us and it was a little awkward cuz she's like, you know, James, you've had some tough words for billionaires and you got a billionaire sitting right next to you. And I joke that Mark Cuban is one of the good ones. Meaning Mark Cuban uses his wealth, his power, his influence to help working people. If you've seen the work he's done on prescription drugs, cost plus drugs is a great company that is actively making it easier for people to afford their medicine. And that's true throughout American history. If I think of Franklin Roosevelt, I think of Bobby Kennedy. These were political heroes of mine. They were trust fund babies. These were the billionaires of their day. But they used their their power to take on these systems that are hurting people. And it wasn't just through charity. Charity is important, but what's more important is addressing the systems that make charity necessary. And that's exactly what people like Mark Cuban are doing. So I again, I don't mean to I'm not interested in punishing success. I'm not interested in banning billionaires. All I want is to ensure that we are we're acting like a community again as a country that we have a responsibility to each other. Uh and you can be successful while also paying your fair share and ensuring that we we're investing in young entrepreneurs. We got an education system that's empowering the next great business leader.
>> 所以你的意思是，税收方面的改变需要在联邦层面上发生。
Original English >> So you're saying that the the tax changes would need to happen on the federal level.
### 打破医疗垄断 >> 是的。伴随而来的还有很多其他内容。不仅仅是税收。我的意思是我……我指的是在教育、幼儿阶段、在……在医疗保健以及阻止企业兼并重组方面的重大变革。额，马克·库班和我共同提出的一项举措，就是打击医疗垄断，因为基本上，你现在可以拥有一家同时兼有健康保险公司、医院和药房的企业，集所有业务于一身。因此，再次……当我说这不是资本主义时，竞争减少意味着选择变少，这意味着人们要承担更高的价格。
Original English >> Yes. Along with a lot more. It's not just tax. I mean I I'm talking about major changes in education and early childhood in in in healthcare in blocking consolidation. Uh, one of the things that Mark Cuban and I laid out together was going after healthcare monopolies because you basically you can now have one company that owns the health insurance company, the hospital and the pharmacy allin one. And so there's again when I say this is not capitalism, less competition means fewer choices which means higher prices for people.
>> 所以我们医疗体系中的这些垄断，就是裙带资本主义的一个例子。CVS 拥有最大的药学利益管理机构（PBM）之一。
Original English >> So these monopolies in our healthare system, that's an example of crony capitalism. CVS owns one of the largest PBMs.
>> 他们拥有一家药学利益管理机构。它们……它基本上就像是你和你购买的处方药之间的中间人。
Original English >> They own a pharmacy benefit manager. They're it's basically like a middleman between you and the prescription drugs you buy.
>> 但他们拥有大药效利益管理机构之一。他们拥有大型健康保险公司之一。而且他们拥有全美最大的药店网络。所以马克·库班和我正在讨论一项真正打破这些医疗垄断的计划，以此创造更多选择、更多竞争、更多资本主义，从而降低价格。因为归根结底，如果你买不起处方药，你就会生病，有时甚至会因此丧命。去年在华盛顿通过的那项丑陋的重大法案大幅削减了医疗开支。无党派机构的估算显示，由于这些削减，每年将有 51,000 名美国人遭受不必要的死亡。所以，我也只是想让我们立足于这些政策决定在现实世界中带来的后果。这不仅仅是理论层面的。我们谈论的是我们的邻人正在死去，因为我们有一个……
Original English >> But they own one of the big PBMs. They own one of the big health insurance companies. And they own the largest network of drugstores in the country. So Mark, Cuban and I were talking about a plan to actually break up those healthcare monopolies and create more choices, more competition, more capitalism so that we can lower prices because at the end of the day, like if you can't afford your prescription drugs, you get sick and sometimes you die because of it. The big ugly bill that passed last year in Washington made a lot of cuts to healthcare. The nonpartisan estimates were that as a result of those cuts, 51,000 Americans were going to die needlessly every year. So, I just want to ground us also in the in the real world ramifications of these policy decisions. It's not just theoretical. We're talking about our neighbors dying because we have a
这个系统根据你挣多少钱来决定你的医疗保健，呃，根据你父母挣多少钱。这里面很多还是根本就没开始工作的孩子。所以，我感到有一种真正的紧迫感，很多美国人也感到，我们必须、我们必须、我们必须在我们的政治和经济体制中推进彻底的、转型性的变革。
Original English system that determines your health care based on how much money you make. Uh based on how much money your parents make. A lot of these are kids who don't even work yet. And so there is a real urgency that I feel that a lot of Americans feel that we have to we have to we have to pursue wholesale transformational change in our political and economic system.
### 赞助商信息 我想对现在正在收听和观看的企业主们说几句。我知道对每一个决定负个人责任是什么感觉。我在21岁时创立了自己的第一家公司，坦白讲，那种压力可能极其巨大。正是这种精神负荷，在表面之下逐渐对身体造成损耗。我最近通过赞助商 Function 做了一些检测，这让我开始思考那种看不见的影响。我发现自己的 omega-3 水平偏低，维生素 D 水平缺乏，可能是因为我整天都坐在这个阴暗的房间里。这彻底改变了我今后安排作息的方式。我早晨起床，现在做的第一件事就是走到户外的阳光下散步。一部分是为了帮助提高我的维生素 D 水平，但也是因为它有助于重新调整我的昼夜节律。通过 Function，你可以检查自己的大脑健康、衰老状况、压力程度等等。他们提供超过160项实验室检测，费用相当于每天一美元，并提供高级影像检查的会员价。前往 functionhealth.com/dac 加入，并使用优惠码 doc25 获得25美元的积分。
Original English I want to speak to the business owners listening and watching right now. I know what it's like to be personally responsible for every decision. I founded my first company at 21 years old and honestly the pressure can be immense. It's the kind of mental load that takes its toll below the surface. I recently did some tests through fast sponsor function which got me thinking about that invisible impact. I found that I had low levels of omega-3s. I had deficient levels of vitamin D probably because I sit inside this dark room all day. And that has totally changed how I construct my day going forward. I get up in the morning and the first thing I now do is I go for a walk outside in the sunshine. In part to help my vitamin D levels increase, but also because it helps to reset my circadian rhythm. With Function, you can check your brain health, your aging, your stress, and so much more. They provide over 160 lab tests for what is equal to a dollar a day, and member pricing on advanced imaging. Head to functionhealth.com/dac to join, and use code doc25 for a $25 credit.
你可能会觉得，Nespresso 的前总裁会是一个很难被转变去支持一家新咖啡公司的人。但只要尝一口 Cometeer 咖啡，就让他决定投资了。
Original English You'd think the former president of Nespresso would be a pretty hard person to convert to a new coffee company. But just one sip of Cometier coffee made him invest.
不过让我告诉你我为什么成为投资人。我有这么一大盒寄到了我在伦敦办公室的办公桌上。然后我想大概在一个半小时内，我们的 Slack 频道就开始炸锅了，大家都在问：“被留在厨房里的那个东西到底是什么鬼？”简直令人难以置信。所以，与其自己在家里试着冲调并平衡风味，他们在最完美的时刻将其速冻。因此你只需把它从这里挤进杯子里，倒上热水，味道就完全不同于你以前喝过的任何东西。你也可以做美味的冰咖啡饮料。直接倒进去就行。
Original English But let me tell you the reason why I became an investor. So I had a big box of this arrive on my desk in the London office. And then I'd say within about an hour and a half, the Slack channel that we have starts blowing up with people asking, "What the hell is that thing that's been left in the kitchen?" It is unbelievable. So instead of trying to make it yourself at home and balance the flavors, they flash freeze it at the perfect moment. So all you have to do is pop it out of here into a cup, pour hot water on it, and it tastes like nothing you've tasted before. You can also make delicious iced coffee drinks as well. Just pour it in.
不需要机器，没有塑料冲泡以及所有那些讨厌的东西。你在 cometier.com/stephven 上的第一笔订单可以减免30美元。那就是 comedy.com/stephven。
Original English No machine, no brewing with plastic and all that nasty stuff. And you can get $30 off your first order at cometier.com/stephven. That's comedy.com/stephven.
### 人工智能的冲击与监管 就经济体制而言，我们刚才谈了一点关于普通劳动者、他们的薪资以及他们的生计。这个故事里现在的一个主要主角是人工智能，以及它将带来多大的颠覆性。我坐在这里，与该行业中很多利益相关者交谈过，听到了关于机器人技术以及关于整个人工智能领域一些最疯狂的预测。我是说，目前的重大头条新闻之一是，将会有重大的就业岗位颠覆，而很多这部分价值将累积到那些作为前沿实验室的大型科技公司以及像英伟达这样的公司手中。在我看来，当我向科技界非常非常聪明的人询问目前美国经济面临的最大担忧是什么时，那就是应对这一人工智能挑战。是的。
Original English In terms of the the economic system and we were talking there a little bit about, you know, average workers and their pay and their their livelihoods. One of the big sort of protagonists in this story is now artificial intelligence and how disruptive that's going to And I've sat here with so many of the like you know the stakeholders in that industry and heard some of the most crazy predictions around robotics and generally around AI. I mean one of the the sort of big headlines at the moment is that there'll be significant job disruption and a lot of that value is going to acrue to the big technology companies that are the frontier labs and the nvidas of the world. It appears to me when I when I ask very very smart people in technology what is the biggest concern at the moment for the US economy? It is dealing with this AI challenge. Yeah.
>> 但我知道伯尼·桑德斯最近对此非常直言不讳。唐纳德·特朗普说过我们需要战胜中国。
Original English >> But I know Bernie Sanders has been very vocal about it recently. Donald Trump has said that we need to win against China.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 嗯，你是怎么看待人工智能以及它将对得克萨斯人产生的影响的？
Original English >> Um how are you thinking about AI and the impact it's going to have on Texans?
>> 是的。我认为当我在得克萨斯州各地走访时，经常被问到这个问题。很多人都在思考人工智能，对此有相互矛盾的反应。我们当中的很多人，包括我在内，对人工智能的一些好处感到兴奋。我见过一位人工智能创业者，他谈到自己打算如何治愈慢性病，也许能治愈癌症。我的意思是，这让我很兴奋，我认为对大多数人来说都很令人兴奋。然后很多得州人，包括我在内，感到非常焦虑，因为我们的领导人，那些本该制定游戏规则的人，却把头埋在沙子里。我的意思是，令人震惊的是，随着这项技术发展得越来越快，并且以危险的方式发展——正如我们在最近涉及 OpenAI 模型的黑客攻击中所看到的那样——我们的美国参议院、我们的国会、我们的联邦政府实际上一直处于缺席状态。因此，我认为人们渴望的是一个监管框架，以确保我们在开发这些技术、在赢得人工智能竞赛的同时，是在负责任地进行，是在安全地进行。我们是以一种能够确保人工智能为我们服务、而不是与我们作对的方式在做这件事。我认为这也是大多数人希望从他们的领导人、从他们的政策制定者那里看到的，因为眼下就是，呃，根本无人掌管顾店。
Original English >> Yeah. I think when I travel around the state of Texas, I get this question a lot. A lot of people are thinking about AI and there's competing reactions to it. A lot of us, including me, feel excited about some of the the benefits of artificial intelligence. I met with an AI entrepreneur who's talking about how he's going to cure chronic diseases, maybe cure cancer. I mean, that that's exciting for me. I think exciting for most people. And then a lot of Texans, including me, feel a lot of anxiety because our leaders, those who are who should be writing the rules of the game, have their head in the sand. I mean it is shocking that our US Senate, our Congress, our federal government has really been MIA as this technology has developed faster and faster and has done so in in dangerous ways um as we saw with the the recent hacking from from Open AI's model. And so I think what people are hungry for is a regulatory framework to ensure that we are developing these technologies, that we're winning the AI race, and we're doing it responsibly, we're doing it safely. We're doing it in a way that's going to ensure AI works for us and not against us. And I think that is what I think most people want to see from their leaders, from their policy makers, cuz right now it's just um no one is minding the store.
>> 你知道这具体意味着什么吗？你对这具体意味着什么有什么想法吗？
Original English >> Do you know what does that mean specifically? Do you have any ideas what that means?
>> 是的，我想如果我，你知道，如果我身处美国参议院协助制定这个监管框架，有三件事我会优先考虑。
Original English >> Yeah, I think if I, you know, if I was in the US Senate helping develop this regulatory framework, there are three things I would prioritize.
第一是保护我们的劳动者，保护我们的经济，确保人工智能技术在改善工作、让工作变得更轻松，呃，让劳动者花更少的时间在工作上，有更多的时间与他们所爱的人一起做他们热爱的事。呃，我会优先考虑的第二件事是儿童。我们已经看到社交媒体公司是如何侵害我们的孩子、占我们孩子的便宜，导致了，你知道，年轻人自残、抑郁和焦虑的激增。我非常担心在没有监管的情况下，人工智能技术可能会对年轻人、对未来几代人造成同样的后果。你见过那些可怕的故事，孩子们去找人工智能做心理治疗、做咨询，有时那些人工智能聊天机器人却协助那些孩子伤害了自己。嗯，我会优先考虑的第三件事是我们的民主，因为我们已经在政治竞选中看到了人工智能深度伪造的广告。我们在得克萨斯州的这次美国参议院竞选中已经看到了。而且你知道，作为一名千禧一代，我一直为自己能够在网上辨别事实与虚构而感到自豪，对吧？很多像我一样的千禧一代会对在 Facebook 上被骗的祖父母嗤之以鼻，但我意思是，我看到这种事发生在我自己身上，对吧？我越来越分不清人工智能深度伪造和现实之间的区别了。我认为很多人都感到警惕，因为这些技术变得如此高超，你真的无法分辨事实与虚构。而且大多数时候并不要求免责声明。所以再次说明，有很多事情需要去做。但如果由我来制定人工智能的监管框架，那些将是我会优先考虑的三件事。
Original English One is protecting our workers, protecting our economy, making sure that AI technologies are improving jobs, making jobs easier, um allowing workers to spend less time on the job and more time doing the things they love with the people they love. Uh the second thing I would prioritize is children. We've seen how social media companies have prayed on our kids have taken advantage of our kids have led to, you know, a spike in in self harm and depression and anxiety among young people. I very much worry that without regulation, AI technologies may do the same thing to young people, to future generations. You've seen the horror stories of of kids going to to AI for therapy, for counseling, and sometimes those AI chatbot have helped those kids harm themselves. Um, the third thing I would prioritize is our democracy because we've already seen AI deep fake ads in political campaigns. We've seen it in this campaign in Texas for the US Senate. And you know, I I've always prided myself as a millennial on being able to differentiate between fact and fiction online, right? A lot of millennials like me will roll our eyes at our grandparents who get tricked by stuff on Facebook, but I mean, I'm seeing it happen to me, right? I I I increasingly can't tell the difference between AI deep fakes and and reality. And I think a lot of people feel that alarm that these these technologies are getting so good that you really can't tell the difference between fact and fiction. And most of the time there's no disclaimer required. And so again, there's a lot that needs to happen. But if I was developing a framework of regulation for AI, those would be the three things that I would I would prioritize.
>> 埃隆曾说过，十年之内将会有超过十亿台人形机器人。超过十亿台人形机器人，而且那些机器人的产出将至少是一个人类的五倍——
Original English >> So Elon said that there will be within a decade over a billion humanoid robots. over a billion humanoid robots and that those robots will be at least five times the output of a human
>> 而且他，我想这些机器人正在你的州，在得克萨斯的超级工厂那里制造，嗯，以及在他拥有的其他特斯拉工厂制造，但是当世界上有十亿台人形机器人时，怎么可能保护劳动者呢？现在的埃隆的时间表有时会有所偏差——
Original English >> and he's I think it's these robots are being built in your state in Texas at the Gigafactory there um and at the other sort of Tesla factories that he has but how is it possible to protect workers when there's a billion humanoid robots in the world now like Elon's timelines have sometimes missed a little bit
>> 但总体而言，你知道，他作为一名企业家以及他的公司能够做出的事情，有时几乎与魔法无异。
Original English >> but generally you know he as an entrepreneur and his company so being able to do things that are like almost indistinguishable from magic at times.
>> 嗯，关键就在这里，并且这与我们刚才进行的对话有关。我们不能让人工智能或机器人技术成为亿万富翁为我们其他人制定规则的又一个领域。你去思考——我总是试着去思考历史上的相似之处。嗯，我在现代史中唯一能想到的相似事件是曼哈顿计划、核武器的研制、太空竞赛以及互联网的发展。这次的人工智能可能比这三项创新更具影响力。
Original English >> Well, here's the key and connects to the the conversation we were just having. We cannot let AI or robotics become yet another arena where billionaires are writing the rules for the rest of us. You think about I try to always think about historical parallels. Um, and the only parallels I can think of in modern history are the Manhattan project, the development of nuclear weapons, the space race, and the development of the internet. This AI probably will be more consequential than those three innovations.
但不同之处在于，这三项创新都是以公私合作的形式完成的。对吧？我们作为一个国家在决定游戏规则，而且我们是与优秀的私营部门公司合作完成的。这项创新截然不同。这是掌握在极少数经营营利性公司的人的手中，没有
Original English But the thing that's different is that all three of those innovations were done as a public private partnership. Right? We as a country were deciding the rules of the game and we were doing it um in partnership with with great private sector companies. This innovation is very different. This is being done in the hands of a very small number of people running for-profit corporations without
来自我们其他任何人的投入。
Original English input from any of the rest of us.
>> 我们不能任由那种情况发生。我们——我们已经看到了，我们谈到过过去的50年，当你让这个国家最富有的人、这个国家最有权势的人制定所有的规则时，所有的收益、所有的好处都将流向位于顶层的人，而我们所有人都会被坑惨。我能看到同样的事情在AI领域发生。这个国家的劳动人民理应在那个AI未来中拥有发言权和一份份额。不管那看起来像是——像是AI红利，还是某种政策，去确保我们所有人都能从这些技术创造的财富中受益，因为它们使用的是我们的集体知识产权。如果他们要使用我们的想法，如果他们要使用我们的聪明才智，那么我们理应——理应因为对该知识产权的使用而获得补偿，嗯。如果这项技术按照他们的预测、按照当前的演进方向发展下去，那么如果你单单考虑把驾驶作为一种职业，我——我们都看过那些新型Cybercab在德克萨斯州各地推出的视频，它们根本没有方向盘，完全没有踏板，前排只有两个座位，车子完全自动行驶。据我粗略估计，德克萨斯州大约有40万人从事职业司机工作，作为他们的主要薪资职业。但如果你把像Uber、DoorDash上的零工工人算进来——顺便说一句，你知道，Uber的创始人呃首席执行官坐在那里告诉我那些工作即将消失。
Original English >> And we can't allow that to happen. We we've seen already, we talked about the last 50 years, when you let the richest people in this country, the most powerful people in this country, write all the rules, all of the gains, all of the benefits will flow to those at the top, and we're all going to get screwed. I could see the same thing happening with AI. Working people in this country deserve a say and a share in that AI future. And whether that looks like an an AI dividend, some kind of policy to ensure that all of us are benefiting from the wealth that these technologies create because they're using our collective intellectual property. If they're going to use our ideas, if they're going to use our ingenuity, then we deserve to be to get compensated um for the use of that intellectual property. If the technology plays out, how they're forecasting and how on the current direction of travel, then if you just think about driving as an occupation, I we all watched those videos of these new cyber cabs rolling out around Texas where they have no steering wheel, no pedals at all, and two seats in the front and the car just drives itself autonomously. From my rough estimates, approximately 400,000 people in Texas work as professional drivers as their primary payroll occupation. But if you factor in like gig workers that are on the Ubers, the Door Dashes, which by the way, you know, the founder of uh the CEO of Uber sat there and told me those jobs are going away.
>> 嗯，依靠驾驶作为职业的人超过——超过50万人。德克萨斯州正在带头反对——迈向完全不需要司机的自动驾驶汽车。
Original English >> Um it's more it's more than half a million people that rely on driving as an occupation. Texas is leading the charge against towards autonomous vehicles where you need no driver.
>> 在我看来，按逻辑在这一演进方向上，将会出现严重的就业颠覆。这甚至都还没算进人形机器人等等。而——而且我想知道，像你知道，有——好的，AI红利，
Original English >> It would appear to me logically that on this direction of travel there's going to be significant job disruption. This is even outside of humanoid robots and so on. And and I wonder like how you know there's okay an AI dividend
>> 但是，嗯，我只是想知道像你们这样的人是如何看待那种理论上可能非常非常迅速发生的颠覆程度的，
Original English >> but um I just wonder how people like you are thinking about that level of disruption that theoretically could happen really really quickly
### AI颠覆、监管与以人为本的经济 以及拒绝那些虚假的抉择，对吧，因为从这些技术中的某些技术中获益是可能的，嗯，你知道，某些这种自动驾驶汽车会让大家在道路上更安全，这很好，但是认为那必须取代人类的想法，这种事实——认为这些技术不需要人类监管者的想法。对我来说，那是一个——那是一个虚假的抉择。
Original English and rejecting the false choices right because it is possible to to benefit from some of these technologies um you know some of these self-driving cars will make us all safer on the roads which is great but the idea that that has to replace a human being the fact the idea that these technologies don't need a human supervisor. To me, that's a that's a false choice.
>> 为什么它需要人类监管者？
Original English >> Why would it need a human supervisor?
>> 我是说，我希望，特别是如果我们谈论的是像在德克萨斯州高速公路上呼啸而过的18轮大卡车，我希望那里有一个人在监控这些技术。如果你——如果你想一想，即使数据表明没有人类会更——更安全，
Original English >> I mean, I would hope, especially if we're talking about like 18-wheelers barreling down Texas highways, I would hope there is a human being there to monitor these technologies. If you if you think about even if the data suggests that it's it's more safe without the human,
>> 你觉得，我完全赞成利用——利用那些安全特性。嗯，我——我只是想到飞机，对吧？飞机大部分时间是自动飞行的这一事实。我依然感到非常安心的是，万一出什么差错，控制台后面有一位受过训练的专业人员。所以再次强调，如果我们大家共同做这些决定，而不是仅仅由少数亿万富翁CEO替我们所有人做决定，那么我们就可以拒绝摆在我们面前的某些这种虚假抉择。我们可以找到一种方法，既利用这些技术的好处，比如让我们的道路更安全、让汽车更安全、减少人员伤亡，又确保在这个过程中保护人类。我——我从根本上就拒绝我们必须在这两者之间做选择的想法。
Original English >> you think I'm all for taking advantage of of the safety features. Um I I just think about airplanes, right? The fact that airplanes mostly fly themselves. I'm still very comforted by the fact that there is a trained professional behind the controls in case anything goes wrong. And so again, if we're making these decisions together instead of just a few billionaire CEOs making the decisions for all of us, then we can reject some of these false choices that are presented to us. And we can figure out a way to both take advantage of the benefits of these technologies like making our roads safer, making cars safer, reducing fatalities, and ensuring that we are protecting human beings in the process. I I just fundamentally reject the idea that we have to choose between those two things.
我前几天看了一个视频，嗯，是一个工厂的视频，他们让人形机器人做包装流程，机器人的旁边有一个人，他们只是在展示人形机器人翻转包裹与一个必须睡觉、上厕所和所有那一类事情的人之间的生产力差异，
Original English I watched a video the other day of um a factory and they had the humanoid robot doing the packaging process and they had a human next to them and they were just demonstrating the productivity difference between the humanoid robot that was flipping the packages versus a person who had to sleep and go to the toilet and all those kinds of things
>> 而且——由Figure AI制作的视频，视频最后得出的结论是，人形机器人本质上生产力更高，而且它不需要睡觉，显然还有所有那一类事情。所以我也在思考那一层面的工作，我不知道，我只是——我一直在寻找一个——针对嗯这个似乎合乎逻辑地即将到来的就业颠覆问题的良好答案。AI领域的大型前沿实验室的CEO们都越来越频繁地预测会出现就业颠覆。当这变得不受欢迎时，他们会稍微改变一下语气，
Original English >> and the a video by figure AI and the video concludes with the fact that the humanoid robot was more productive essentially and it did need to sleep and obviously all those kinds of things. So I think also about that level of work and I don't know I've just I'm in search of a of a good answer to um this question of like job disruption that seems to be logically on the way. The big frontier labs their CEOs in AI have all forecasted job disruption increasingly. They changed their tone a little bit when it becomes unpopular,
>> 但如果你翻看他们自2016年以来的著述，他们一直说鉴于这项技术，经济将不得不发生彻底的改变。所以，我——我和一位AI专家交谈过，因为我是——你知道，当你在这些职位上，当你身处民选职位时，你突然意识到所有你不知道的事情。你必须就你可能还不擅长的事情做出关键决策。因此，我每天都在努力让自己在这一领域变得更在行。我和——和一位呃在AI领域做过大量工作的人交谈，他说他担心我们正走向出现五个万亿富翁和30%失业率的局面。
Original English >> but if you look through their writing since 2016, they're saying that the economy is going to have to drastically change in light of this technology. So, I I spoke with an expert on AI cuz I'm, you know, when you're in these positions, when you're in elected office, you suddenly realize all the things you don't know. You're having to make crucial decisions on things that you may not be an expert on yet. And so, I'm trying to get smarter on this every day. And I was speaking to to someone who's uh done a lot of work in AI, and he said he's worried that we are headed toward five trillionaires and 30% unemployment.
>> 嗯。
Original English >> H
>> 这让我感到害怕，对吧？对吧？作为一个关心我所在州人民的人，那不是我想要的未来。而且我们仍有时间共同做出这些决定。我们想要什么样的AI未来？这不是我们只能被动承受的事情。是的，我们将看到颠覆。我们已经见识过——来自过去技术的颠覆，但如果我们作为一个国家共同做决定，那么我们既能经受住其中一些颠覆，也能在经历之后变得更强大。你知道，我想到需要去投资并加倍投入只有人类才能做的事情，加倍投入人类的创造力、人类的聪明才智，对吧？我已经谈到过对创业资助的需要。你知道，如果我们对这些AI公司征税，其中的一部分收入可以用于——用于投资那些对企业、发明或艺术作品有着极好想法的人。
Original English >> And that terrifies me, right? right? As someone who cares about the people in my state, that's not the future I want. And there's still time for us to make these decisions together. What kind of AI future do we want? This is not something we're subjected to. Yes, we're going to see disruption. We've seen disruption from from past technologies, but if we're making decisions together as a country, then we can both weather some of those disruptions and we can come out stronger on the other side. You know, I think about the need to invest and double down on what only human beings can do, doubling down on human creativity, on human ingenuity, right? I've talked about the need for entrepreneurship grants. You know, if we're taxing these AI companies, some of that revenue can go go toward investing in folks who have a a great idea for a business or a an invention or a piece of art.
但是这些——这些人并不认识一帮富有的投资人。所以我们要投资小人物，就像我们当年对待特斯拉那样，就像我们当年对待互联网那样。而那些创新已经——已经带来了远超成本的回报。所以我希望我们多做那样的事。去发现什么是只有人类能做的事，并加倍投入那种创造力、那种聪明才智。再次说明，那只是一个例子，表明如果我们大家走到一起并认真思考这个问题，嗯，并下定决心我们要共同做决定，那么AI的未来就会——就会看起来与我们目前所走上的道路大不相同。
Original English But these these people don't know a bunch of wealthy investors. And so we're going to invest in the little guy just like we did with Tesla, just like we did with the internet. And those innovations have have more than paid for themselves. And so I want us to do more of that. Finding out what is it that human beings alone can do and doubling down on that creativity, that ingenuity. Again, that's just an example of if we all come together and we think seriously about this problem um and decide that we're going to make decisions together, the AI future can can look very differently than the path that we're headed on.
>> 你对民选官员能够——能够理清这些并得出结论抱有信心吗？因为如果你想一想——我不知道，社交媒体当初是如何处理的，我们往往是事后处理。
Original English >> Do you have faith that elected officials can can pass through this and arrive at a conclusion? Because if you think through I don't know how social media was handled, we tend to handle it after the fact.
那个。是的。比如那是个——那应该是一个反面教材，对吧？因为我们任由社交媒体公司肆意妄为，最终它们对我们的孩子下手。它们最终嗯伤害了我们的孩子。它们最终伤害了我们所有人，而不仅仅是孩子。而——所以我们应该从那个例子中吸取教训，并且——并且认识到，如果我们要做这件事，而我——如果这项技术即将到来，如果这项创新即将到来，让我们作为一个社区、作为一个国家弄清楚，嗯，我们将如何应对，以及我们需要落实什么样的政策框架来确保，再次强调，AI能让我们的生活更美好、更轻松、压力更小，而不是伤害人们。这是我持有的一个基本信念，即经济是为人民服务的。人民不是为经济服务的，对吧？那——那是一个——那是我的指路明灯。因此，如果——如果我们正走上一条因为硅谷的少数几个人声称有必要，人们就将无谓地受到伤害的道路，我——我认为我们必须拒绝这一点。而我们的民选官员，他们在民主制度中承担着做出这些重大决策的重任，他们需要参与进来。
Original English that. Yeah. Like that's that should be a a negative example, right? Because we let social media companies run wild and they ended up praying on our children. They ended up um hurting our kids. They ended up hurting all of us, not just kids. And and so we should learn from that example and and realize that if we're going to do this and I if this technology is coming, if this innovation is coming, let's figure out as a community, as a nation, um how we're going to respond and what policy frameworks we need to put in place to ensure that again AI is making our lives better and easier and less stressful and not hurting people. This is a fundamental belief that I have that the economy is for people. People aren't for the economy, right? that that is a that is a guiding star for me. And so if if we are headed down a path where people are going to get hurt needlessly because a few guys in Silicon Valley say it's necessary, I I think we have to reject that. And our elected officials who in a democracy are tasked with making these big decisions, they need to get in the game.
### 政治氛围转变与“觉醒主义” >> 在过去的几——嗯，在过去的几年里，政治发生了转变。我认为，当埃隆收购推特时，出现了一次相当明显的转变。
Original English >> Politics has shifted over the last couple of um over the last couple years. There was quite a distinct shift, I think, when Elon purchased Twitter.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
世界似乎改变了很多，而在政治内部的术语之一就是“觉醒主义”（wokeism）这个词，
Original English It seemed like the world changed a lot and this one of the terms within politics was this word wokeism
>> 而且它似乎主要存在着。它就像是右翼用来打击左翼的武器。
Original English >> and it predominantly seemed to exist. It was like a weapon that the right hit the left with.
>> 当然。
Original English >> Sure.
>> 最近，嗯，AOC站出来说“觉醒1.0”太疯狂了。
Original English >> Recently um AOC came out and said that woke 1.0 was crazy.
有点像在刻意与2020年那些进步主义政治叙事拉开距离——嗯，回过头来看，我觉得那些叙事可能对该党造成了一点伤害，或者至少稍微损害了该党的公众形象。对于这种觉醒主义（wokeism）概念以及我们经历过的这段历程，你有什么看法吗？
Original English Sort of distancing herself from the 2020 progressive political narratives um that I think maybe in hindsight have hurt the party a little bit or at least hurt the perception of the party a little bit. Do you have a point of view on this this idea of wokeism and the the sort of journey we've been on?
>> 是的，我的意思是这很难讲，因为嗯，你知道，人们对“觉醒”或“觉醒主义”的定义大相径庭。我确实认为，表演式政治有所抬头，一些人更在乎使用正确的用词——通常是由学术界界定的用词，而不是围绕诸如种族主义是错误的这类共同价值观将人们凝聚在一起。
Original English >> Yeah, I mean it's hard because um you know people define woke or wokeism very differently. I do think that there was a rise in in performative politics in people who were more concerned about using the right words usually determined by academia versus bringing people together around some common values like racism is wrong.
>> 嗯。
Original English >> Mhm.
对吧？嗯，每个人都应该受到尊严与尊重的对待。这些都是我们大家都赞同的、具有凝聚力的价值观。但是，当你开始对人们的语言进行审查，当你因为别人没有跟上所谓的正确术语而开始评判他们时，你就已经不再是在建立联盟去解决那些真正需要解决的实际问题了。相反，你是在进行、在表演一种只关乎你自身智识和情感需求的政治，而不是为了真正带来改变。
Original English right? Um that everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Those are unifying values that we all agree on. But when you start policing people's language, when you start judging people because they're not up on the right terminology, you're no longer building a coalition to address those real problems that you that that need addressing. Instead, you're doing you're performing a kind of politics that's about your own intellectual and emotional needs and not about actually making change.
### 民主党败选诊断与经济考量 >> 在你看来，民主党为什么会输给特朗普？
Original English >> Why did the Democrats lose to Trump in your view?
>> 你指的是在哪一年？
Original English >> In in what year?
>> 两次都是。
Original English >> Both.
>> 民主党现在已经两次输给特朗普了。
Original English >> The Democrats have lost to Trump twice now.
>> 是的，我觉得两次都是，不过我猜主要是最近这次选举周期。
Original English >> Yeah, I think in really in both years, but I guess in the more re the more recent election cycle.
>> 对。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 诊断结果是什么？嗯，在2024年，我走遍得克萨斯州各地，嗯，人们都在为高昂的生活成本而苦苦挣扎。我同许多得州人交流过，他们并不喜欢特朗普对人说话的方式。他们不喜欢1月6日事件。作为一名领导人，他在他们心中引发了深深的担忧，但他们认为他能让经济重回正轨。因为如果你还记得2017年、2018年、2019年的经济，那时的经济相当不错，成本要低得多，中产阶层也更容易出人头地。你知道，我确实认为我们必须分开来看。我谈过过去50年里财富和权力向顶层集中的趋势。在疫情暴发和通胀上升之后，所有这些都变得更加尖锐，嗯，更加紧迫。通胀加剧有点像压垮骆驼的最后一根稻草，对吧？你经历了50年的涓滴经济学，中产阶层和工薪阶层的工资停滞不前，教育和医疗体系受到系统性冲击。所有这一切都在发生，但你拥有廉价商品。所以，那时感觉我们好像还得到了点什么，对吧？我的收入没有增加。你知道，我无法像我的祖父母那辈人那样出人头地。创办企业很艰难，但至少东西便宜。而当这一切改变时，人们突然意识到，我们所有人都在被这个体制坑害，因为不仅我们的薪酬在下降或停滞不前，而且现在生活成本也上升了。所以你正腹背受压。
Original English >> What is the diagnosis? Well, everywhere I went across the state of Texas um in 2024, people were uh struggling with the high cost of living. I talked with a lot of Texans who didn't like the way Trump talked to people. They didn't like January 6th. They had deep concerns about him as a leader, but they thought he could get the economy back on track. Because if you remember the economy of 2017, 2018, 2019, it was a pretty good economy and and costs were a lot lower and it was easier for middle class people to get ahead. You know, I do think we have to separate I've talked about the last 50 years of this trend toward, you know, consolidation of wealth and power at the top. All of that became more acute, um, more urgent after the pandemic and the rise of inflation. The increase in inflation was kind of like the the straw that broke the camel's back, right? You'd had 50 years of trickle down economics of stagnant wages for middle class and working-class people, systematic attacks on education and healthcare. You had all of that happening, but you had cheap goods. So, there was it felt like we were getting something, right? My income's not going up. You know, I'm not able to get ahead like maybe my grandparents were able to get ahead. It's hard to start a business, but at least things are cheap. And then when that changed, suddenly people realized that we are all getting screwed by this system because not only is our is our pay going down or staying flat, but now the cost of living has gone up. So you're getting squeezed from both ends.
因此，当这种情况发生时，我认为人们在寻找能伸出援手的人。当你深陷困境时，寻求帮助并不是无理的诉求。所以人们寄希望于特朗普总统是有充分理由的，对吧？他们认为他会降低成本。他们认为他会结束我们都厌倦了的无休止的战争。他们认为他会公开爱泼斯坦档案。他们认为他会肃清华盛顿官僚沼泽。我的意思是，我家里就有给特朗普总统投票的亲人，有我所爱的人。这些就是他们投票给他的原因。而且这些都是很充分的理由。我认为，你知道，在这个本届政府任期过了一年多之后，那些承诺并未兑现。现在一切都变得更昂贵了，主要是因为关税。我们陷入了一场没人想要的针对伊朗的新战争。这每天耗费我们十亿美元，推高了汽油价格。爱泼斯坦档案仍然没有完全公开，而沼泽比以往任何时候都更大。因此人们觉得他们被骗了。而我们的，你知道，我作为一名候选人的职责，我们竞选团队的职责，就是向那些幻灭的、错信了领导人的邻居们伸出友善之手，邀请他们加入我们正在得克萨斯建立的这场运动——老实说，这项运动比亚当·特朗普更大，比任何单一政党都大。它实实在在扎根基层。它感觉像是一场跨越政治光谱的工薪阶层的运动，他们已经准备好挑战这个支离破碎、腐败堕落的体制。你知道，如果上帝允许，作为下一任得克萨斯州联邦参议员，我将有机会与特朗普总统合作，努力为我的选民谋福利。
Original English So when that happened, I think people were looking for someone who was going to help. And that's not an unreasonable thing to look for when you're hurting. And so people put their faith in in President Trump for good reasons, right? They thought he was going to lower costs. They thought he was going to end the forever wars that we were all sick and tired of. They thought he was going to release the Epstein files. They thought he was going to drain the swamp. I mean, I I have members of my family who voted for President Trump and people that I love. And those are the reason they those are the reasons they voted for him. And those are pretty good reasons. I think, you know, more than a year into this administration, those promises have not been kept. Everything is now more expensive largely because of tariffs. We have a new war in Iran that no one asked for. It's costing us a billion dollars a day that's driving up gas prices. The Epstein files has have still not fully been released and the swamp is bigger than it's ever been before. And so people are feeling like they like they've been conned. and our, you know, my job as a, as a candidate, our job as a campaign is to is to extend an open hand to our neighbors who are disillusioned, who misplaced their trust in a leader, and invite them to join this movement that we're building in Texas, which is honestly bigger than Donald Trump. It's bigger than any one political party. It really is on the ground. It feels like a movement of of working people across the spectrum who are ready to take on this broken corrupt system. And you know, God willing, as the next as the next US senator from Texas, I will have the opportunity to work with President Trump to try to deliver for my constituents.
### 对特朗普个人品质的评价 >> 你觉得他这个人怎么样？
Original English >> What do you think of him as a person?
嗯，我不认识他，所以我很难去评判，但是，嗯，你知道，我认为我们所有人，嗯，都有优点和缺点。嗯，我认为总统确实有明显的优势。我认为他能够以一种对人们来说清晰、简练且有力的方式进行沟通。在政局陷入严重僵局时，他愿意采取行动。嗯，他愿意冲破阻碍来为人们办成事情。而且他有一种幽默感，我觉得这在当下的政治中确实很缺失。你知道，他身上有一种轻松洒脱的气度。我认为，这些是他的一些可取之处。我认为我们所有人都清楚他将自我凌驾于一切之上的意愿。他愿意在没有多少深思熟虑的情况下做出混乱的决定，他对腐败以及为自己和家人谋取私利情有独钟，还有他渴望受欢迎的心态。所有的政客都有渴望受欢迎的心态，但他似乎把这一点置于他可能拥有的几乎任何其他原则或信念之上。因此，你知道，我认为审视任何领导人的好与坏都很重要。这其中也包括总统。
Original English Well, I don't know him, so it's hard for me to judge, but um you know, I think all of us um have strengths and weaknesses. Um I think the president does have clear strengths. I think he's able to communicate in a way that's clear and and concise and powerful to people. He is willing to take action when there's so much gridlock. Um he's willing to just kind of bust through walls to deliver for people. and he has a sense of humor which I I feel like is really missing in in politics. You know, he has a a light-hearted weight about him. Those are, I think, some of the redeeming qualities. I think all of us know the his willingness to put his ego above everything else. His willingness to make uh chaotic decisions without much forethought, his pension for corruption and self-enrichment for himself and his family, and his his uh desire to be popular. And all politicians have a desire to be popular, but he does seem to place that above almost any other principle or conviction that he may have. And so, you know, I think I think it's important to consider both the the good and the bad of any leader. And and that includes the president.
### 移民政策与边境问题 >> 那么移民问题呢？这个问题既与得克萨斯州密切相关，但也坦率地讲，通过他谈论
Original English >> What about uh immigration? That's one of the issues that is both very relevant to Texas, but also that frankly helped him get elected.
是的。
Original English Yeah.
>> 关于得克萨斯州边境越境的一些统计数据，助他赢得了选举。
Original English by him talking about >> some of these stats around border crossings in Texas.
>> 是的。在这一点上他是对的。拜登政府在我们的南部边境问题上辜负了我们。我记得曾与在州众议院代表边境社区的同事交谈过，他们谈到了我们边境上的彻底混乱，而得克萨斯州的边境社区对我来说意义重大。我母亲来自拉雷多，那就在我们的得克萨斯与墨西哥边境上。因此，这个系统在拜登时代失控了，你从这张地图上就能看出来。我担心的是，我们在拜登时期的移民极端主义，被一种新的移民极端主义所取代：蒙面人员和无标识车辆在街头绑架人员，驱逐在此生活了数年乃至数十年之久的小企业主，抓走年仅5岁的儿童并将他们关进拘留中心。所以我的感觉是，谈到移民问题，大多数得州人、大多数美国人想要的都是同一件事。他们既要安全，又想接纳那些希望追求美国梦的勤劳移民。而在我们的政治中，这两件事互相对立起来。这又回到了虚假的选择。它们并不是互斥的。你可以拥有安全的边境。你可以——想知道谁正在进入这个国家并不是种族主义，对吧？你在做到所有这些的同时，也可以为那些以合规方式来到这里的人建立更多的合法途径。那些想创业、想为这个经济体做贡献、想实现那个美国梦并在此过程中让我们变得更富裕、更强大的人，就像移民一直以来所做的那样。因此，我正在竞选路上努力坚持这两项道德价值观。安全——公共安全是政府所做的最重要的事情，比公共教育更重要，比公共卫生更重要，公共安全是最重要的事情。而且我们是一个移民国家。它是我们经济的命脉。它造就了得克萨斯和美国的伟大。因此，我们可以同时坚持这两项价值观，并通​​过全面的移民改革同时实现这两件事。
Original English >> Yeah. And he was right about this. The Biden administration failed us on our southern border. I remember talking with my colleagues in the state house who represented border communities and they talked about the utter chaos um on our border and our border communities in Texas mean a lot to me. My mom is from Laredo which is on our Texas Mexico border. And so this system was out of control in in the Biden era and you see it on this map. My worry is that we have replaced one extremism on immigration in the Biden years with a new extremism on immigration with masked men and unmarked vehicles, kidnapping people off the street, deporting small business owners who have been here for years and and decades taking children as young as 5 years old and throwing them in detention centers. So my sense is that most Texans, most Americans want the same thing when it comes to immigration. They want security and they want to welcome hardworking immigrants who want to live the American dream. And in our politics, those two things are pitted against each other. Again, back to false choices. Those are not mutually exclusive. You can have a secure border. You can you can it is not racist to want to know who's coming into this country, right? You can do all that while also building more legal pathways for folks to come here the right way. folks who want to start a business, who want to contribute to this economy, who want to live that American dream and make us richer and stronger in the process as immigrants have always done. And so I'm trying to on the trail uphold both of those moral values. Safety, which public safety is the most important thing the government does, more important than public education, more important than public health, public safety is the most important thing. And we are a nation of immigrants. It is the lifeblood of our economy. is what has made Texas and and America so great. And so we can uphold both of those values at the same time and pass comprehensive immigration reform that can do both of those things simultaneously.
>> 你会如何处理来到这里的无证年轻人的问题？
Original English >> What would you do about the issue of undocumented young people that have come here?
>> 好的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 嗯，那些在这个国家的
Original English >> Um that are in the country
……那些，你知道，可能完全不是出于自身的过错而被带到这里，但如今却发现自己在美国没有合法身份的人。
Original English that you know maybe were brought here by no fault of their own but now find themselves in the US without documents.
>> 是的。我在圣安东尼奥西区的罗兹中学（Roads Middle School）112号教室教过很多童年抵美暂缓遣返计划（DACA）的学生，很多梦想者（dreamers）。我的那些没有合法身份的学生，他们对这个国家有着极其深沉的热爱。感觉就像他们真正理解关于美国的某些东西，而我们的许多领导人却已经忘记了这一点——这里本应是一片充满机遇的土地。这里本应是梦想成真的地方。因此，作为包括边境安全在内的全面移民改革方案的一部分，我非常愿意为在这里生活了数年、数十年的无证群体，为那些在孩童时期被带过来的孩子们开辟一条入籍途径，让他们有机会走出阴影，完全融入我们，呃，成为这个国家的公民。
Original English >> Yeah. I taught a lot of DACA students, a lot of dreamers in room 112 at Roads Middle School on the west side of San Antonio. My students who were undocumented, they loved this country in a profound way. It feels like they they understand something about America that many of our leaders have forgotten that this is supposed to be the land of opportunity. This is this is supposed to be the place where dreams come true. And so I would be very interested as part of a comprehensive immigration reform package which includes border security to create a pathway to citizenship for for undocumented folks who have been here for years, for decades, for kids who were brought over as kids so they have an opportunity to come out of the shadows and fully join us as uh as as citizens of this country.
### 赞助商与频道提示 这是我为你们制作的一件东西。我意识到这里的各位观众都是拼搏奋斗者。无论是在商业领域还是在健康方面，我们都有想要实现的宏大目标。而我学到的经验之一就是，当你瞄准那个极其宏大的目标时，心理上可能会感到极度不适，因为那有点像是站在珠穆朗玛峰脚下向上仰望。实现目标的方法是将它们分解为微小的步骤。在我们团队内部，我们把这称为“1%”。实际上，这种理念在很大程度上造就了我们在这里取得的大部分成功。因此，为了让屏幕前的你们能够实现自己拥有的任何大目标，我们所做的就是制作了这些“1% 日记”。我们去年推出了这些日记，它们全部售罄了。所以我一遍又一遍地要求我的团队把这些日记带回来，同时也推出一些新颜色，并对日记进行一些微调。所以现在我们为你们提供了更丰富的选择。因此，如果你心中有一个宏大的目标，并且你需要一个框架、一套流程以及一些动力，那么我强烈建议你在它们再次售罄之前入手一本。你可以在 thediary.com 获取属于你的一本。如果你需要链接，链接就在下方的简介中。这里正下方应该有一个按钮。如果上面写着“已订阅”，那么说明你已经订阅了。如果写着“订阅者”，那就意味着你还没有订阅。如果你还没有订阅，请你帮我们一个忙，点击那个按钮好吗？这对我们节目的帮助超出你的想象。根据算法推测，你一直在观看我们的节目，但你还没有点击那个按钮。非常感谢。
Original English This is something that I've made for you. I realized that the divers here audience are strivverbs. Whether it's in business or health, we all have big goals that we want to accomplish. And one of the things I've learned is that when you aim at the big big goal, it can feel incredibly psychologically uncomfortable because it's kind of like being stood at the foot of Mount Everest and looking upwards. The way to accomplish your goals is by breaking them down into tiny small steps. And we call this in our team the 1%. And actually this philosophy is highly responsible for much of our success here. So what we've done so that you at home can accomplish any big goal that you have is we've made these 1% diaries and we released these last year and they all sold out. So I asked my team over and over again to bring the diaries back but also to introduce some new colors and to make some minor tweaks to the diary. So now we have a better range for you. So, if you have a big goal in mind and you need a framework and a process and some motivation, then I highly recommend you get one of these diaries before they all sell out once again. And you can get yours at the diary.com. And if you want the link, the link is in the description below. There should be a button just down below here. And if it says subscribed, you're already subscribed. If it says subscriber, that means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please could you do us a favor and hit that button? It helps the show more than you know. And according to the algorithm, you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button. Thank you so much.
### 伊朗局势与外交政策 >> 我知道目前很多人都非常关注的一个问题……呃，而且我认为会导致共和党在中期选举中陷入困境的问题之一，就是你之前提到的这个伊朗问题。
Original English >> One of the um issues that I know is going to be front of mind for a lot of people at the moment. Uh and one of the issues I think that's going to result in the Republican party struggling in the midterms is this issue you mentioned earlier of Iran.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yeah.
>> 如果你成为一名美国参议员，嗯，你将就外交政策、战争权力以及军事开支等事务进行投票，包括在中东地区的这些事务。
Original English >> If you are a US senator, um you would be voting on foreign policy and war powers and military spending and things like that, including in the Middle East.
>> 所以，我想听听你的看法……
Original English >> So, I wanted to get your perspective on
>> 到底是怎么一回事。问得好。
Original English >> what the hell is going on. That's a good question.
>> 比如你现在该如何摆脱这种局面？这看起来就像是……
Original English >> Like how do you get how do you get out of this situation now? It seems like a
>> 看起来似乎没有任何摆脱这种局面的绝妙出路。
Original English >> seems like there's no golden bridge out of this situation.
>> 是的。我是说，我们本来——我们本来一开始就不该陷入这种局面的。我们应该从这一点谈起。
Original English >> Yeah. I mean we shouldn't we shouldn't have been in this situation to begin with. We should start with that.
>> 我们是怎么陷入这种局面的？再次声明，这纯粹是从一个局外人的角度来看，但在委内瑞拉的行动之后，似乎存在一种傲慢……呃，还有过度自信，认为推翻伊朗的领导层会是一件容易的事，会是对长期困扰该地区、困扰美国的一个问题的速战速决的解决办法。而且可能缺乏远见和审慎考虑。我的意思是，这并不难预测：当伊朗被逼入绝境时，他们会做的事情就是控制霍尔木兹海峡。事实上，前几届政府都曾进行过这些兵棋推演，并且得出了同样的结论。
Original English >> How did we get in this situation? Again, this is just from an outsider perspective, but it seems like uh after the operation in Venezuela, there was a a hubris uh and overconfidence that toppling the leadership in Iran would be an easy thing and would be a a quick fix to a a problem that has long plagued the region and plagued the United States. And maybe a lack of foresight and and consideration. I mean, it's not that hard to predict that what Iran would do when they when they're cornered is take control of the straight of Hormuz. In fact, previous administrations had played out these war games and had come to the same conclusion.
>> 那么，你现在打算怎么做？因为你将要对这些事情进行投票。
Original English >> So, what do you do now? You because you're going to vote on this stuff.
>> 是的。我是说，第一，我认为我们需要制衡机制。目前我们面对的情况是建国先驱们我认为无法预见的，那就是党派——政党，或者用先驱们当时的说法叫“派系”——跨越我们政府的各部门进行串通。因此，原本应当是立法部门的野心去制衡行政部门的野心，现在却是同一个政党的成员在这些部门之间互相协同。而现在的局面就是，立法部门——它本应是我们政府中最重要的部门，对吧？它是宪法中列出的第一个部门——现在已经完全臣服于行政部门，顺从总统及其政府的意愿。因此，第一点，我认为你必须恢复这些制衡。而且这不必以一种敌对、不具建设性的方式进行。它完全可以是一种健康的方式，由立法部门提出质询：我们的军事战略是什么？我们试图实现的军事目标是什么？因为我们已经在这场灾难性的战争过程中看到，那些目标随着时间的推移不断改变。但问题就在这里：他们似乎自己都不知道目标是什么了，看起来……
Original English >> Yeah. I mean, one, I think we we need checks and balances. Right now we have something the the founders I think couldn't have envisioned which is parties political parties factions is what the founders would have called them coordinating across branches of our government. So instead of you know the ambitions of the legislative branch checking the ambitions of the executive branch you now have members of one party coordinating across those branches. And what that looks like now is a a legislative branch, which is supposed to be the most important branch in our government, right? It's the first one listed in the constitution. It has now become completely subservient to the executive branch to the will of of the president and his administration. And so, one, I think you have to restore those checks and balances. And it doesn't have to be in a hostile, unproductive way. It can be in a healthy way where the legislative branch is asking questions about what is the military strategy? what are the military objectives that we're trying to accomplish cuz we've seen over the course of this disastrous war those objectives change over time but this is the thing it doesn't appear that they know what the objectives are anymore it appears
>> 嗯，而且这……而且我认为这是关键：如果我们不能清晰地阐述一个目标，那么立法部门就有责任介入，扣留这些军事行动的资金，直到我们能够清楚地了解为什么要把我们勇敢的年轻男女
Original English >> well and this and this is I think this is key if if we cannot clearly articulate an objective then it is the responsibility of the legislative branch to intervene and to withhold funding for these operations until we can get a clear idea of why we are sending our brave young men and
送入中东的又一场无休止战争中。我……我最终认为化解这一切的途径是通过区域伙伴关系。嗯，必须涉及……我是说，我们大体上知道一项协议的具体轮廓会是什么样子：海峡的自由通航。我们必须处理核问题。我担心我们实际上在这个……在这个问题上失去了阵地，因为我……我不想看到伊朗获得核武器。而且我认为任何人都不想看到那一幕。并且我认为我们此前一直在按部就班地防止这种情况发生，嗯，通过我们曾签署的那份核协议。因此，努力回到……回到……回到那场入侵之前我们拥有的外交途径，我认为这可能将是挽救这种局面的最终目标。但这是一场……我是说，这彻头彻尾就是个烂摊子。而且，你知道，我……我……我真的，我是在911事件之后成年的。911事件发生时我12岁。所以我懂得保卫这个国家安全的重要性。但作为一个千禧一代，我也目睹了像伊拉克战争这样的军事灾难是如何夺走这个国家年轻人的生命、夺走数十亿美元、夺走我们在世界上的道德地位的。我无法相信，仅仅在20年之后，我们竟然在伊朗犯下同样的错误。
Original English into another forever war in the Middle East. I I think ultimately how you untangle this is is through regional partnerships. Um it has to involve I mean we kind of know the contours of what a deal would look like free passage through the strait. We have to deal with the nuclear issue. I worry that we've actually lost ground on this on this problem because I I don't want to see Iran get a nuclear weapon. And I don't think anybody wants to see that. And I think we were on track to preventing that um through the the nuclear deal we had. So trying to get back to to to that diplomacy um we had before this invasion. I think that's probably going to be the the the ultimate objectives for how to salvage this situation. But it is a I mean it is a mess from top to bottom. And you know I I I really I came of age after 911. I was 12 years old when 911 happened. And so I understand the importance of keeping this country safe. I also saw as a millennial how military disasters like the Iraq war robbed this nation of young lives, of billions of dollars, and of our moral standing in the world. I can't believe that we are making the same mistakes just 20 years later in Iran.
>> 那里的提议听起来有点像向伊朗提出、但最终破裂的那份谅解备忘录。你知道，霍尔木兹海峡的自由通航。里面有一条关于核武器的条款，还有其他几件事。而且它在几天之内就破裂了。所以，你知道，因为我认为相比特朗普在当前这种四年选举周期下所能做到的，伊朗着眼于完全不同的时间跨度。在我看来——我也不是真的很懂行——但在我看来，伊朗是在表明：你知道的，我们手握底牌。你……你……你想扔多少炸弹就扔多少。我们的本质是去中心化的。嗯，他们分成了许多这样各自武装起来的小派系。并没有特别……我记得在一次新闻发布会上，好像是马可·卢比奥（Marco Rubio）或者皮特·海格塞斯（Pete Hegseth）说过……
Original English >> The proposal there sounds a little bit like the memorandum of understanding that was pitched to Iran that ultimately failed. you know, free passage of the straight of Hormuz. There was um a clause in there about nuclear weapons and a few other things. And it failed within a couple of days. So, you know, because I think Iran are playing to a different time frame than Trump is able to considering this sort of four-year election cycle. It appears to me, and I I don't really know what I'm talking about, but it appears to me that Iran is saying, you know, we have the cards. You you you can drop as many bonds as you like. We're decentralized in our nature. um they're split into lots of these smaller factions that are weaponized in their own way. There's not particular I remember in one press conference I think it was Marco Rubio or Pete Hegath saying that
>> 他们甚至都不一定确切知道伊朗是由谁掌权，而且他还发表了一番言论，说需要很长时间才能把信鸽传送到前线，也就是与他们谈判的人甚至可能与发射导弹和无人机等人根本没有任何联系，等等。
Original English >> they're not even necessarily sure who is in charge in Iran and he made a remark that it takes a while to get the carrier pigeons down to the front the front lines i.e. the the people they're negotiating with might not even be connected with the people that are launching the missiles and the drones etc.
>> 没错。这看起来就是一团彻底的糟局，我……我简直无法……
Original English >> Right. It just appears to be a total mess and I I just can't.
>> 我们确实拥有，但我确实相信我们依然拥有经济杠杆，而且这里依然有经济底牌可以打。所以关键在于，你知道的，我……我真的不希望这场灾难性的战争在特朗普政府剩下的任期内一直持续下去。我祈祷……
Original English >> We do have but I do believe that we still have economic leverage and there are still economic cards to play here. And so the key is, you know, I I really don't want this disastrous war to play on for the rest of the of the Trump administration. I pray that
我们可以比那更早达成决议并得出结论。我认为这其中除了地区伙伴关系之外，还得涉及一部分这种经济施压，因为我们最终必须依靠地区伙伴，才能真正促成一项最终决议。所以，我并没有对我们能够解决这一问题放弃希望。我们必须解决。我是说，我们刚刚失去了一位我们自己的人，我们的得州同胞，伊莎贝拉·冈萨雷斯（Isabella Gonzalez）因为伊朗对约旦的空袭而失去了生命。她才19岁。她刚从得克萨斯州达拉斯的海布隆高中（Hebron High School）毕业。我们把像伊莎贝拉这样勇敢的现役军人派去送命，投入到又一场没有退场策略、没有任何明确军事目标的无休止战争中，在我看来，这在道德上是极其不当的。伊莎贝拉·冈萨雷斯作为一名爱国者牺牲，她作为一名英雄牺牲，我们感激她的奉献。但我们对她牺牲的感激，绝不该被误认为是接受她的死亡。
Original English we can come to a a resolution and a conclusion sooner than that. And I think that's going to have to involve some of this economic pressure in addition to the regional partnerships because we're ultimately going to have to rely on on regional partners in order to to actually push through a a final resolution. So, I'm not giving up hope that we can resolve this. We have to. I mean, we we just lost one of our own, our fellow Texan, um, Isabella Gonzalez lost her life uh because of an Iranian air strike in Jordan. And she was 19 years old. She had just graduated from Hebrin High School in Dallas, Texas. And the fact that we would send brave members of the armed services like Isabella off to die in another forever war without any exit strategy, without any clear military objective to me is deeply immoral. Isabella Gonzalez died a patriot. She died a hero and and we are grateful for her sacrifice. But our gratitude for her sacrifice should not be mistaken for an acceptance of her death.
>> 至于具体能为此做些什么，对于摆脱这种局面的出路，您脑海里有什么具体想法吗？因为我真的——我是说我一直在寻找这些方案。
Original English >> In terms of what one can do about it, is there any specifics that you have in mind for a way out of this? Cuz I' I really I mean I'm in search of them.
>> 嗯，还是那句话，这就是为什么需要制衡，因为我们需要立法部门开始向行政部门施压，这样我们才能开始看清目标究竟是什么，或者我们才能就退场策略达成共识。
Original English >> Well, again, this this is why you need checks and balances because we need the legislative branch to start exerting pressure on the executive branch so that we can start to see what the objectives are. or we can come to a consensus about about an exit strategy.
>> 美国在这里输不起。
Original English >> The US can't afford to lose here.
>> 同意。是的。同意。
Original English >> Agreed. Yeah. Agreed.
>> 他们甚至连被视为正在失败都承受不起——
Original English >> They can't be even afford to be seen as losing
>> 因为那会助长中东的嚣张气焰。没错。
Original English >> because you're going to embolden the Middle East. That's right.
>> 而且伊朗是一个对手。我们不应该忽视这一点。一个拥有核武器的伊朗对于该地区和全世界都将是一场灾难。所以——
Original English >> And Iran is is an adversary. We should not lose sight of that. A nuclear Iran would be a disaster for the region and for the world. So,
>> 所以他们——我们打赢是势在必行的。
Original English >> so they it's imperative that we win.
>> 如果您跟特朗普通过电话，并且您有机会——如果他说：“听着，詹姆斯，我需要一些建议。这个伊朗局势已经失控了。我以为会像在委内瑞拉那样。我以为我扔下炸弹，就会爆发起义，然后事情就会某种程度上自我修正，但现在已经失控了。詹姆斯，你对我有什么建议？”
Original English >> If you had a phone call with Trump and you had an opportunity to if he said, "Listen, James, I need some advice. This Iran situation's got out of hand. I thought it would be like in a Venezuela. I thought I'd drop the bombs. There'd be an uprising and then it would sort of correct itself, but it's got out of hand. James, what advice have you got for me?
>> 那会很难办。嗯，您知道，我认为谦逊是好的，有自知之明也是好的，希望能有助于他和本届政府避免未来的错误。我会敦促他把立法部门的领导层召集到一起，包括民主党和共和党两党的领导层，与他们以及我们在世界各地的盟友合作，努力就战略方向达成共识。总统和他的政府不仅推开了国会，还竭尽所能疏远了我们全球各地的盟友。而这个国家在这类伙伴关系和这些盟友上投入如此多的政治和经济资本，是有原因的。那是因为当你陷入困境时，你需要你的朋友。所以我——我会敦促总统开始建立那个大联盟。我会坦率地告诉他，单凭他自己是走不出这个困境的。而且这需要在国内开展跨党派合作，在国外开展地区合作。
Original English >> That'd be tough. Um, you know, I I I think that humility is good and and that self-awareness is good and hopefully can help him and the administration avoid future mistakes. I would urge him to call the leadership um in in the legislative branch together, leadership of both parties, Democrats and Republicans, and work with them as well as our allies around the world to try to come to um a a consensus on a strategic direction. The president and his administration have not only pushed away Congress, they've also done everything they can to alienate our allies across across the globe. And there's a reason that this country spent so much political and economic capital on these on these partnerships and these allies. It's because when you get in a jam, you need your friends. And so I I would urge the president to start building that big coalition. I would I would tell him frankly that he's not going to get out of this on his own. Um and it's going to require bipartisan collaboration at home and and regional collaboration abroad.
>> 您抱有希望吗？
Original English >> Are you hopeful?
>> 是的。是的。您认为特朗普会解决它吗？
Original English >> Yes. Yeah. You think Trump's going to fix it?
>> 我不知道对此我是否有希望，但是，您想知道在这次中期选举中我对什么抱有希望吗？ 如果得克萨斯州的人民、如果这个国家的人民选出能够制衡总统的领导人，我认为这可能会成为他总统任期的重生。 我认为在经历这种中期选举之后，特别是在中期选举中惨败之后，行政长官对此往往有两种反应。一种是变本加厉，退缩到他们党派的角落里。我们在1月6日看到了对特朗普总统而言那是什么样。另一条路则是倾听人民的呼声，倾听你得到的反馈，并调整路线。 而作为得克萨斯州的下一任联邦参议员，我非常乐意与唐纳德·特朗普合作，真正去兑现他的政治规划中的一部分承诺，因为“让美国再次伟大”（MAGA）的承诺曾是我们将改变这个政府，让它为那些被抛在后面的人、那些在这个国家被遗忘的人带来福祉。现在做这些依然来得及。在跨党派的基础上做这些依然来得及。如果总统想跟我或者跟任何一位民主党人合作扩大医保覆盖，我奉陪。如果他想确保这个国家的每一个孩子都能获得优质、负担得起的托儿服务，我奉陪。如果他想解决住房问题——唐纳德·特朗普是个建筑商。如果他想让我们削减这个国家的繁文缛节，以便我们能建造数以百万计的新住宅，并确保这个国家的每个人都有一个可以称之为家的地方，那我奉陪。我会与他合作去实现。我非常乐意这么做。所以我的希望是，这次中期选举会给总统和他的政府敲响警钟，结果就是他们会改变路线。他们会决定与两党的领导人接洽，真正为把他们送到那里的工薪阶层带来成果。
Original English >> I don't know if I'm hopeful about that, but uh I here's what you want to know what I am hopeful about in these midterms. If the people of Texas, if the people of this country elect leaders who are going to check the president, um I think it could be a rebirth for his presidency. I I think after these kinds of midterms, especially when you get walloped in the midterm, executives have kind of two reactions to it. One is to kind of double down and and retreat to to their their partisan corner. We saw on January 6th what that looks like for President Trump. The other path is to hear the response from the people, listen to the feedback that you're getting, and adjust course. And I would love as the next US senator from Texas to work with Donald Trump to actually fulfill some of the the the promise of his political project because the the promise of MAGA was that we were going to transform this government so that it delivered for the people who have been left behind, the people who have been forgotten in this country. And there's still time to do that. There's still time to do that on a bipartisan basis. If the president wants to work with with me or with any Democrat to expand healthcare access, I'm there. If he wants to make sure that every single kid in this country gets highquality, accessible child care, I'm there. Uh if he wants to tackle the housing problem, Donald Trump is a builder. If he wants us to slash the red tape in this country so we could build millions of new homes and ensure everyone in this country has a place to call home, that I'm there. I'll work with him to do it. I would love to do that. So my hope is that this midterm will be a wake-up call for the president, for his administration, and as a result, they will reverse course. They will decide to engage with with leaders in both parties to actually deliver for the working people who sent him there.
### 个人信仰与好撒玛利亚人的比喻 >> 我这里有这本书，《圣经》。
Original English >> I have this book here, the Bible.
>> 是的。
Original English >> Yes.
>> 我这里还有一些照片，显示——我想是您年轻的时候，在这张照片里您是个8岁的小男孩，在圣安德鲁教堂（St. Andrews Church）。
Original English And I also have some photos showing uh I think you as a young as a young boy here at 8 years old at St. Andrews Church.
>> 是的。是的。是的。对。当侍童？通常孩子们被委以在礼拜仪式开始时点燃蜡烛、然后将其熄灭的任务。所以基本上我手里拿的这个东西，这个部分有火焰，就是你用来点燃蜡烛的地方。另一部分不在这张照片里。它像一个罩子，罩住蜡烛以将其熄灭。所以这是我那天在仪式上非常重要的工作。
Original English >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yep. How's the acolyte? Usually the kids um are tasked with lighting the candle at the beginning of the service and then putting it out. So basically this thing I'm holding here, the this part has the the flame where you light the candle. The other part's not in this picture. It's like a hood and it covers the candle to put it out. And so this was my my very important job um uh at the service that day.
>> 那么您从小就是个有宗教信仰的人吗？
Original English >> So have you been religious since you were a young young boy?
>> 是的。是的，您知道我提到过我祖父曾是一名浸信会传道人。我至今仍在参加礼拜的那座教堂，从我2岁起就是我的教堂了。我的信仰真的——一直是我生命的基石。对我而言那是大本营。但我所做的工作，无论作为公立学校教师，还是作为公职人员，都是源于、植根于我的信仰。我的信仰就像是土壤。
Original English >> Yes. Um yeah, my you know I I mentioned that my granddad was a Baptist preacher. The church that I still attended this day has been my church since I was 2 years old. Um and my faith has has has really been the foundation of of my life. It's um home base for me. But the work I do, whether it's as a public school teacher, as a public official, uh, stems grows out of my faith. My faith is kind of the soil. Um,
>> 那么您的信仰是什么？我知道基督教里有很多不同的教派。您的信仰是什么？
Original English >> and what is your faith? I know there's lots of different denominations in Christianity. What is your faith?
>> 我祖父，那位浸信会传道人，告诉我作为基督徒，我们应该遵守耶稣赐予我们的两条诫命：爱上帝和爱邻舍。那是在《新约》里。当一名律法师——总是律法师——请求耶稣定义什么是“邻舍”时。正是在那时，他讲了好撒玛利亚人的比喻，这也许是耶稣最著名的比喻之一。他讲了一个人在路边遭到殴打、奄奄一息的故事。一名祭司走过，什么也没做。一名神职人员走过，什么也没做。然后一名撒玛利亚人走过。您知道，当我们在现代语境中听到“撒玛利亚人”时，它其实没有太多含义。大多数人会把它与在路边帮助他人联系在一起。但在耶稣的时代，对于耶稣的听众来说，撒玛利亚人不仅是一个不同的宗教群体，他们是宿敌。所以在这个耶稣的故事中，撒玛利亚人是那个停下来为这个人包扎伤口、悉心照料使其康复、带他去客栈并付钱给客栈老板照看他直到自己返回的人。 而在耶稣的故事中，这位撒玛利亚人是“爱人如己”的终极典范。这本会是一个令人震惊的故事。我是得克萨斯长角牛队（Texas Longhorn）的美式橄榄球迷。这就像是耶稣站在得克萨斯大学达雷尔·K·罗亚尔纪念体育场（Darrell K. Royal Memorial Stadium）中央，讲了一个叫做《好阿吉人》（the good Aggie）的故事，对吧？人们肯定会愤怒不已——
Original English >> My granddad, um, the Baptist preacher, told me that as Christians, we're supposed to follow the two commandments that Jesus gave us, to love God and love neighbor. And that's in the New Testament. um when um a lawyer, it's always the lawyers, asked Jesus to define neighbor. And that's when he tells the parable of the good Samaritan, maybe one of Jesus's most famous parables. And he tells the story of a man who is beaten and left for dead on the side of the road. A priest walks by and does nothing. A religious man walks by and does nothing. And then a Samaritan walks by. And you know, when we hear Samaritan in our modern context, it doesn't really mean a whole lot. Most people associate it with helping people on the side of the road. But in Jesus's time, and for Jesus's listeners, the Samaritans were not just a different religious group. They were their sworn enemy. And so in Jesus's story, the Samaritan is the one who stops and bandages the man's wounds, nurses him back to health, takes him to an inn, pays the inkeeper to look after him until he comes back. And in Jesus's story, the Samaritan is the ultimate ultimate example of loving thy neighbor as thyself. And it's such it it would have been a shocking story. I I'm Texas Longhorn football fan. It's as if Jesus was standing in the middle of Daryl K. Royal Memorial Stadium at the University of Texas and told a story called the good Aggie, right? Like people people would be outraged
>> 因为球队，对吧？那是死敌，对吧？ 但他是在提醒我们，我们被感召去爱的，不仅仅是那些长得像我们、祈祷方式像我们、或者投票立场像我们的邻舍。我们被感召去主动爱那些与我们最不同的人，也许正是我们最痛恨的人。在2000年后的今天，这依然是一项激进的教诲。所以我一直试图——虽然做得很不完美，因为我们都是不完美的基督徒。我一直试图去遵从这两条——
Original English >> because team, right? Those are rivals, right? But he but he's reminding us that we're not just called to love our neighbors who look like us or pray like us or vote like us. We're called to actively love those who are the most different from us, maybe those we hate the most. And that 2,000 years later is still a a radical teaching. And so I have tried imperfectly because we're all imperfect Christians. I have tried to follow those two
诫命——爱上帝，并且爱邻如己。这就是为什么我决定去当一名公立学校的老师，也是为什么我竞选公职。而我在州议会的工作，我也再次把它视为一种侍奉。我是在努力通过公共政策来爱我的邻舍。
Original English commandments to love God and to love my neighbor as myself. Uh it's why I decided to become a public school teacher. It's why I ran for office and the work that I do in the legislature I think of as again as a form of ministry. I am trying to love my neighbor through public policy.
>> 所以肯·帕克斯顿（Ken Paxton）是你的——是的，我猜他是你某种意义上的对手。他是共和党人——
Original English >> So Ken Paxton is your Yes. I guess he's your sort of adversary. Um he's the Republican
>> 我的竞争对手。是的。我的撒玛利亚人。
Original English >> my rival. Yes. My Samaritan.
>> 他是你所竞选对抗的那种对象。
Original English >> He's the kind of thing you're running against.
>> 是的。你说过肯是全美最腐败的政客之一。
Original English >> Yes. Um, you said that Ken is one of the most corrupt politicians in America.
>> 嗯，是的。
Original English >> Mhm. Yes.
>> 你爱他吗？
Original English >> Do you love him?
### 爱与问责 >> 爱。肯·帕克斯顿是上帝的孩子。他在基督里是我的弟兄。但这并不意味着不需要问责，对吧？爱需要问责。我们谈到过我母亲的故事，她的爱意味着勇于面对霸凌者。如果想一想，当你和朋友在外面喝酒，你的朋友拿起车钥匙想要酒后驾车，作为朋友，你的职责就是把那些钥匙夺过来，从身体上去阻止他们坐进车里。这种做法感觉很激进，甚至可能感觉带有敌意，但这完全是出于对那个人的爱，也是出于对其他所有人、对你所有邻舍的爱。
Original English >> Yes. Ken Paxton is a child of God. He is my brother in Christ. It doesn't mean there's not accountability, right? Love requires accountability. Um, we talked about the story of my mom and her love meant standing up to a bully. And you know, if you think about when you're like out having a drink with your friends and your friend grabs their car keys to drive home under the influence, your job as their friend is to take those keys away, to physically block them from getting in the car. And that feels um aggressive. It it feels maybe even hostile, but it is done out of love for that person and for everybody else, for all of your neighbors.
肯·帕克斯顿——我不认识肯·帕克斯顿本人，但从我所能阅读和了解到关于他的公职与生平的一切来看，他清楚地表现出他只关心他自己。他因为投资欺诈遭到起诉，因为他在诈骗自己的朋友。他劝说他的朋友们向一家科技公司投资了数十万美元，却没有告诉他们他从这些投资中拿提成。所以，他遭到起诉是因为他在坑害他自己的朋友。他被自己的下属举报给了联邦调查局。他遭到自己所属党派的弹劾。当然，他与自己家人的关系现在也变得众所周知、臭名昭著。所以如果我要和肯·帕克斯顿坐下来谈——我非常乐意这么做——
Original English Ken Paxton, from every I I don't know Kim Paxton personally, but from everything I've been able to read and and learn about his service and his life, he has clearly shown that he only cares about himself. He was indicted for investment fraud because he was defrauding his own friends. He committed he he convinced his friends to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into a tech company, but he didn't tell them that he was making a commission off those investments. So, he got indicted because he was screwing over his own friends. Um, he was reported to the FBI by his own staff. He was impeached by his own party. And of course, you know, um his relationships with his own family have now become um wellknown and infamous. And so if I was to sit down with Ken Paxton, which I would love to do,
>> 你会抢走钥匙。
Original English >> you'd grab the keys.
>> 我会抢走钥匙。我会敦促他，在试图告诉我们所有人该怎么处理我们自己的家事之前，先把自己的家务事打理好。因此，我一方面是在努力保护得克萨斯人民免受我们州最腐败、也是全美最腐败的政客之一的伤害；另一方面，以一种微妙的方式，我觉得我是在努力保护肯·帕克斯顿，因为我希望如果他输掉了这场竞选，这会成为一个让他反思并重新审视自己一些优先事项的契机。我只想——我并不是以一个完美的人的身份这么说的，真不是。我努力想做的，是诚实面对这场竞选中的明确选择，以及选出一个有着肯·帕克斯顿那般履历的人进入美国参议院会带来什么样的后果。
Original English >> I would grab the keys. And I would I would urge him to get his own house in order before he tries to tell all of us how to what to do with our own houses. And so I am I'm trying both to protect the people of Texas from the most corrupt politician in our state, one of the most corrupt in the country, and in a weird way, I feel like I'm trying to protect Ken Paxton because I hope if he loses this race, it will be an opportunity for him to take stock and to re-evaluate some of his priorities. And I just want to I am not saying that as a perfect person. I'm really not. What I'm trying to do is is be honest about the clear choice in this race um and about the ramifications of electing someone with Ken Paxton's track record to the US Senate.
### 神学院经历与两条诫命 >> 在31岁那年，你去了圣经学校。
Original English >> At 31 years old, you went off to um Bible school.
>> 是的。你知道，我一直仰慕我的祖父，现在依然仰慕；也仰慕我的牧师，现在依然仰慕。我心里一直怀有这样一种愿望，希望有一天能讲道并领导教会。我看到我的祖父和我的牧师，我真的看到他们是如何帮助人们的，如何帮助人们去理解自己的人生；他们如何帮助人们去探寻一些最深刻的问题：我是谁？作为人意味着什么？生命的目的是什么？我看到他们这样做，不是在一个大型播客上，而是在一个小小的社区教会里，以一种非常亲密的方式与人们交流。我看到他们安慰我们社区里悲伤的人；当有人失去亲人，或者有人自己濒临死亡时，他们的第一通电话就是打给吉姆博士（Dr. Jim），也就是我的牧师。
Original English >> Yeah. You know, I had always um I looked up to my grandfather, still do, looked up to my pastor, still do. And I, you know, always kind of harbored this this wish to one day preach and and lead a church. Um, I saw how my granddad and my pastor, I just really I saw how they how they helped people, how they helped people make sense of their own lives. Uh, how they helped people ask some of the deepest questions. Who am I? What does it mean to be a human being? What is the purpose of life? I saw them doing that on a not on a on a big podcast, but, you know, at a small neighborhood church in like a very intimate way with people. I saw them comfort people who were grieving in our community when someone loses a loved one, when someone is dying themselves, like their first call is to Dr. Jim, my pastor.
所以我心里一直有这个念头，也许有一天想从事那一行。当时我正在州众议院任第二任期。我的第一个任期非常棒，那是2019年。民主党人翻转了所有这些选区，那一年也就是2018年全州选举的竞争非常激烈。因此在紧接着的2019年议期中，共和党多数派突然愿意在跨党派的基础上与我们民主党人合作。那段经历很棒，因为我们通过了一项历史性的学校财政改革法案，向我们的学校投入了大量新资金，并且我们为劳动人民减轻了房产税负担。那真是太棒了。我当时觉得，我拥有世界上最好的工作。
Original English So, I always had this idea that I may want to go into that line of work one day. And so, I was in my second term in the state house. And my first term had been great. It was um 2019. Uh Democrats had flipped all these districts. There was a close competitive election statewide that year in 2018. So the very next session in 2019, suddenly the Republican majority was ready to work on a bipartisan basis with us Democrats. And it was great because we passed this historic school finance reform package that invested a lot of new money into our schools and we provided property tax relief to working people. It was awesome. And I was like, I have the best job in the world.
快进到2021年的下一个议期，那是得克萨斯现代历史上党派偏见最严重、最缺乏成效的立法议期之一。就是在那时，你看到了全美最极端的堕胎禁令生效。你看到了无许可证携枪——那些疯狂的枪支法律之一，允许人们在没有任何背景审查、没有任何执照的情况下携带这些武器。你看到了禁书和漂白课程内容的企图。选民压制，试图让得克萨斯人更难投票；得克萨斯是全美投票最困难的地方之一。所以，那是一个非常艰难的议期。我开始怀疑自己是否真的在产生影响，怀疑自己是否真的在做自己该做的事。在就此与我的牧师见面、坐下来与我的祖父详谈之后，他们两人都提醒我，耶稣给我们这两条诫命是有原因的，对吧？
Original English Fast forward to the next session in 2021 and it was one of the most partisan, one of the most unproductive legislative sessions in modern Texas history. That's when you saw the most extreme abortion ban in the country go into effect. You saw permitless carry um one of these crazy gun laws that allows people to to carry these weapons without any kind of background check, without any kind of license. You saw efforts to ban books and whitewash curriculum. Voter suppression, trying to make it harder for people to vote in Texas. Texas is one of one of the hardest places to vote in the country. So, it was a really difficult session. And I just started to doubt that I was really making an impact, that I was really doing what I was supposed to do. And after meeting with my pastor about it, sitting down with my granddad about it, both of them reminded me that Jesus gave us these two commandments for a reason, right?
我一直太专注于在教室里、在权力的殿堂里、在服务社区中去遵行那第二条爱邻如己的诫命，以至于尽管周日回去教会，我真的没有给予那第一条诫命——爱上帝、爱我们所有人作为其体现的那个神圣存在——足够的关注和时间。因此我做出决定去读神学院，去遵行那第一条诫命。我的发现是，因为我现在同时是一名神学生和一名立法者，我意识到这两条诫命同样是耶稣作为一个整体赐予我们的。这两条诫命相互维系、相互充实、相互激发。它们处于一种关系之中。至少对我个人而言，它帮助我达成了平衡；因为老实说，如果你把所有的精力都投入到爱你的邻舍，尤其是与你意见相左的邻舍身上，你很容易就会精疲力竭。我想任何从事服务工作的人都能告诉你这一点。这就是为什么我们必须与我们自身存在的根基相连，与我们所有人每天都在体现的上帝相连。
Original English I I had been so focused on that second commandment to love my neighbor in the classroom in the halls of power in serving my community that despite going to church you know on Sunday I really wasn't giving enough attention and time to that first commandment to love God to love that that sacred something that we are all an expression of. And so I made the decision to to go to seminary to follow that first commandment. And what I've discovered cuz now I'm a seminarian and a lawmaker at the same time. And I've realized that these two commandments again given to us as a whole by Jesus. Those two commandments, they sustain, they enrich, they challenge each other. They're in relationship. And at least for me personally speaking, it helped balance me out because if I'm being honest, if you're devoting all of your energy to loving your neighbor, especially your neighbors who who you disagree with, it's really easy to burn out. And I think anyone who does, you know, service work can tell you that. And it's why we have to be in touch with the ground of our own being, the the God that all of us express every day.
对我来说，你需要内在的生活，也需要外在的生活。你需要祈祷，也需要行动。这两件事是相辅相成的。没有这个，你就会精疲力竭。或者如果你只专注于爱上帝而不去爱我们的邻舍——很多人也是这么做的——你就会变得以自我为中心，你会与世界脱节。所以去神学院是我在自己的生活中努力将这两条诫命结合起来的方式。老实说，我认为去神学院是我做过的最好的决定。
Original English To me, you need both the inner life and the outer life. You need prayer and action. Those two things go hand in hand. And without it, you burn out. Or if you're only focused on loving God and not loving our neighbors, which a lot of people do that too, you become self-centered. You become disconnected from the world. And so going to seminary was my way of trying to unite these two commandments in my own life. And honestly, it was I think it's the best decision I've ever made to go to seminary.
### 信仰作为信靠 你对一位上帝、对耶稣的信仰从何而来？
Original English Where does your faith in in a in in a god in Jesus come from?
>> 就像，什么是——信仰大概有点像是这个问题的答案，但是，是的——
Original English >> Like what is the you know a faith is probably kind of maybe the answer to the question but yeah
>> 是什么让你相信存在一种更高的力量，相信耶稣就是——
Original English >> what makes you believe that there is a a higher power that Jesus is
>> 他在那么多年以前誓言要成为的那个人。
Original English >> who he pledged to be back all those years ago.
>> 是的。作为一名神学生，我必须学习希腊语和希伯来语，因为在我们的基督教圣经中，希伯来圣经是用希伯来语写成的，而新约是用希腊语写成的。所以我们学习这两种原始语言，这样我们就不必依赖翻译，对吧？因为翻译往往会有信息丢失。
Original English >> Yeah. As a seminary student uh I had to learn Greek and Hebrew because in our in our Christian Bible the the Hebrew scriptures are written in Hebrew and the New Testament is written in Greek. And so we learned both original languages so that we don't have to be reliant on translations, right? Because things get lost in translation.
所以我在研究“信仰”（faith）这个词，我意识到它既可以被翻译为“信念”（belief）——这也是它通常被翻译的方式，即对某种价值、某种概念、一种想法的承诺，对吧？这就是信念；但它也可以被翻译为“信靠”（trust）。
Original English And and so I was studying this word faith and I realized that it can be translated both as belief, which is how it's often translated, you know, uh a commitment to some kind of value, some kind of concept, an idea, right? That's a belief. But it can also be translated as trust.
突然之间——这大概是我在神学院的第一年，我已经有了那种恍然大悟的顿悟时刻，我意识到我体会到的信仰正是那样。对我来说，它感觉起来更像是信靠，而不是信念。它不是对某种抽象概念、某种智识构想的承诺。它是一种本能的、身体上的体验，几乎就像是一种放松。我能想到的最好的类比——因为当我们谈论上帝时，我们总是在
Original English And suddenly you this was like my first year of seminary and I was already having like a a light bulb moment and I realized like that's how my faith feels to me. It feels much more like trust than it does belief. It's not a it's not a commitment to some abstract concept, some intellectual idea. It is a visceral bodily experience of almost like relaxing. Um the the best analogy I can think of cuz when we talk about God, we're always
打个比方。我是在我长大的那个社区的 Wells Branch 游泳池学会游泳的。我记得我学游泳的时候，我的游泳教练对我说，她告诉我：“不要跟水抗争。
Original English talking in analogies. Um I learned to swim at the Wells Branch Pool um uh in the neighborhood where I grew up. And I remember when I was when I was learning how to swim, my swim instructor, she said she told me, "Don't fight the water.
>> 不要抓着水不放。让水托住你。”这对当时正在学游泳的我来说，是一个非常重要的时刻。而这恰恰就是我对信仰的感受。我们的生活中有太多时候是在试图掌控身边的环境，对吧？试图去控制别人。而当你意识到我们其实是某种更深沉、更宏大事物的体现时，你突然就能够让它托住你，而不是拼命想要去抓牢它。
Original English >> Don't hold on to the water. Let the water hold on to you." And it and it it was it was a a big moment for me and in learning how to swim. But that's exactly how my faith feels. So much of our lives is is trying to control our surroundings, right? Trying to control other people. And when you realize that we are an expression of something much deeper and much bigger, you're suddenly able to let that hold you instead of trying to hold on to it.
### 宗教传统与信仰的核心 >> 为什么是这一种宗教，而不是其他所有可供选择的宗教呢？你为什么信任这一种？
Original English >> And why this religion versus all the other available religions? Why are you trusting in this one?
我们都会继承一种宗教传统，这是一代代传承下来的遗产。这是一份如此宝贵的礼物。我觉得如今很多人都在抛弃这份珍贵的礼物，这其中的原因是可以理解的。我是说，我们已经看到了全美乃至全世界宗教机构内部的宗教腐败，包括在我的家乡德克萨斯州。我们看到宗教领袖虐待儿童。我们看到他们撒谎。我们看到他们聚敛财富和权力，以牺牲上帝子民的利益为代价。所以我理解那种干脆全盘否定的冲动是从何而来的。但这其中也有精华所在，不能把婴儿和洗澡水一起倒掉。我确实担心许多年轻人正在一个缺乏连贯意义的宇宙中长大，因为我们丢弃了代代相传的传统。无论是基督教传统、犹太教传统还是印度教传统，我认为在这些伟大的信仰传统的核心，都有着美、真理与爱。这取决于我们所有人，取决于每一个新世代去重新找回它，并将其活出来。而这正是我在自己所处的小小角落里努力去做的事。
Original English We all inherit um a a religious tradition and it is an inheritance that's passed on from one generation to the next. And it's such a gift. It it's such a gift that that I feel like a lot of people nowadays are abandoning for understandable reasons. I mean, we have seen religious corruption in our religious institutions across this country, across the world, including in my home state of Texas. We've seen religious leaders abuse children. We've seen them lie. We've seen them am amass wealth and power for themselves at the expense of of the people of God. And so I understand where that temptation to just reject the whole thing comes from. But there is a there is a baby in that bathwater. I do worry that a lot of people are growing up in an incoherent universe because we have discarded the traditions that have been passed down to us through the generations. And whether it's um the the Christian tradition, the Jewish tradition, the Hindu tradition, there is I think beauty and truth and love at the heart of of these great faith traditions. And it's and it's up to all of us. It's up to every new generation to reclaim that and and to live it out. And that's what I'm trying to do in my small corner of the world.
### 系统性变革与政治现实 >> 詹姆斯，关于你的工作、你的使命，或者观众可能觉得有价值的任何其他事情，还有什么我们没聊过但本该聊的最重要的事吗？
Original English >> James, what's the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should have talked about as it relates to your work, your mission, or anything else that the audience might find of value?
>> 天哪，问得好。
Original English >> Oh my gosh, that's a good question.
>> 只是想知道你是否有什么话想作为给观众或收听者的结语。
Original English >> Just wondering if there's anything at all that you wanted to as a closing message for the audience, anyone listening.
>> 噢，这次交流真的很棒。很感谢你们所做的工作。我觉得我们不再拥有像以前那样的城市广场了。不管好坏，新媒体、社交媒体、播客已经成为了我们共同的城市广场，我们在其中进行这些对话、辩论以及这种公共讨论。你和你的团队构建这些对话、鼓励这些对话的方式，我认为对这个国家、对全世界都非常重要。所以非常感谢。我觉得大家现在对政客总是在问的一个问题是：你有什么不同？
Original English >> Oh, this is this has really been great. Um, and grateful for what you do. I mean, I feel like we um we no longer have town squares like we once had. And for better or for worse, it is new media, social media, podcasts that have become our our collective town squares where we have these conversations, these these debates, this kind of discourse. and the way you and your team um have structured these conversations and encouraged these conversations has been I think very important for for the country for the world. So very thankful. I think one of the questions that I think all everybody is always asking about politicians these days is like how are you different
>> 因为你知道每个政客来这里，或者当我和他们交谈时，他们都会说自己与众不同。
Original English >> because you know every politician will come here or they'll you know when I speak to them they'll say that they are different
>> 但当你与大众交谈时，他们最大的抱怨之一就是政治其实都是一个样，我是说你可能在上门拜访时也见过这种情况——
Original English >> but then when you speak to people one of the great grievances they have is that like politics is the same in terms of I mean you've seen this on the probably on the doorstep
>> 每个人都说这次会有所不同，但大体而言，最后还是一如既往。
Original English >> is everybody says it's going to be different this time but it ends up being kind of more of the same broadly speaking.
是的。你有什么不同？问题不在于人。我认为核心问题在于我们总以为经济脱轨、个人无法出人头地、我们所见到的腐败，都是因为某个政客X，对吧，或是某个政党Y。然而实际上，这是一个将我们所有人都困在其中的系统，无论我们初衷有多么好。这也就是为什么我告诉过你我自己设定了任期限制的部分原因，因为我知道这个系统除非被改革，否则最终会激发我们所有人身上最坏的一面，包括我自己在内。因此，我们所需要的是专注于系统性改革。不要把焦点放在个人身上。不要只想着换掉你不喜欢的人，或者投票选进你喜欢的人。
Original English Yep. How are you different? The issue is not personalities. This I think is the central problem is we think you know the reason this economy is off track the reason I can't get ahead. The reason that we see corruption is because of politician X right uh or political party Y. When in reality it is a system that traps all of us no matter what good intentions we have going in. It's partly why I told you I've put in place a self-imposed term limit because I know that that the system uh eventually uh unless it's reformed will bring out the worst in all of us including me. And so what we need is is to focus on systemic reform. Don't focus on the personalities. Don't focus on replacing the guy you don't like or voting in the guy you do like.
我们必须专注于改变这个破碎且腐败的系统，使其能够激发出每位民选官员最好的一面。因为凭我的经验，很多人竞选公职的初衷都是好的。他们想要帮助他人。他们想要改善自己热爱的社区。正是这样一个破碎、腐败的系统改变了他们，改变了我们的公共政策，让系统最终只服务于顶层人群。
Original English We have to focus on transforming this broken corrupt system so that it's bringing out the best in every elected official. Because in my experience, like a lot of people run for office for the right reasons. They want to help people. They want to improve their community that they love. And it is a broken corrupt system that transforms them, transforms our public policy so that the system only benefits those at the top.
>> 在我们改变那个系统之前，你是不会看到任何改变的。
Original English >> And until we transform that system, you're not going to see anything change.
所以，我想说的是我们问错了问题。这不是“我将会有何不同”，而是“如果由我们按自己的意志重塑这个系统，系统将会有何不同”。这希望能成为一个赋予人力量的信息，因为如果你只是盯着对某些政客的不满，你就会处于一种比较被动的角色。我认为这将需要像德克萨斯这样的地方的广大劳动群众发起一场大众运动，跨越我们社会的所有分歧联合起来，去迫使这种系统性变革发生。
Original English So, I guess I would say we're asking the wrong question. Um, and it's not how will I be different, how will the system be different if we remake it in our own image. And that that's hopefully an empowering message because if you're just focused on what you don't like about, you know, certain politicians, you kind of take more of a passive role. I think it's going to require a mass movement of working people in places like Texas joining together across all the divisions in our society to force that kind of systemic change.
>> 希望这是个赋予人力量的信息，一个能给人们留下一丝希望的信息。
Original English >> And hopefully that's an empowering message um and and one that leaves people with a little bit of hope.
### 竞选挑战与结语 >> 詹姆斯，我们有一个结束时的传统，由上一位嘉宾给下一位嘉宾留一个问题，并且他们不知道是留给谁的。
Original English >> James, we have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next not knowing who they're leaving it for.
>> 好的。
Original English >> Yeah.
留给你的问题是：你最大的挑战是什么，你正如何努力去解决它？
Original English The question left for you is, what is your biggest challenge and how are you working to fix it?
噢，这是个极好的问题。在德克萨斯州获胜，往轻了说，都是一项挑战。我们有1800万登记选民。我们有20个媒体市场。我们横跨两个时区。德克萨斯曾经是一个独立的国家，而且现在感觉仍然非常像一个国家。所以，要接触到所有那些德州人，倾听他们和他们的诉求，分享我的价值观和愿景，往轻了说，这在后勤、体力和精神上都是一项挑战。我很庆幸自己不是孤军奋战。我们有59,000人报名成为竞选志愿者。我们有超过100万人为这次竞选捐款。而且还有更多的人经常为我祈祷。
Original English Oh, it's a great it's a great question. Um, you know, winning Texas um is is a challenge to say the least. We got 18 million registered voters. We got 20 media markets. We got two time zones. Uh, Texas was once a nation and it still very much feels like a nation. So trying to reach all of those Texans, trying to make trying to listen to them and their needs, trying to share my values and my vision. It is a logistical and physical and spiritual challenge to say the least. I'm thankful that I'm not doing this alone. We have 59,000 people who have signed up to volunteer for the campaign. We have more than a million people who have donated to the campaign. and I have many more people who are praying for me on a regular basis
>> 而且根据我看到的一些民调，你目前还领先几个百分点。
Original English >> and you're winning according to some of the polls that I saw by a couple of points.
唯一重要的民调是在选举日那天。所以，在计入最后一票之前，我都认为我们是处于劣势的一方。我们之前谈到过埃隆·马斯克。他已经承诺在我们这场竞选中投入数百万美元，试图击败我们。我对埃隆·马斯克没有任何个人成见，所以我不知道他为什么试图阻止我们的竞选活动。但是，如果你是在向权力说真话，如果你是在对抗世界上第一位万亿富翁，你永远都会是处于下风的那一方。所以我们是在把自己的选情当作落后五个百分点来开展竞选的。因此，我想请所有观看节目的朋友为我献上一份思念或祈祷。我坚信，当你向宇宙释放能量时，它是会产生涟漪效应的。所以我希望无论大家是在哪里观看或收听，即使他们不同意我的政治观点，即使他们打算投票给另一位候选人，我也希望他们能在心中想着我、为我祈祷。
Original English The only poll that matters is on election day. So, um you know, I do think that we are the underdogs until the last vote is counted. Um we talked about Elon Musk. He's already committed to spending millions of dollars in our race to try to defeat us. And I have nothing against Elon Musk, so I don't know why he's he's trying to stop our our campaign. But that, you know, if you're if you're speaking truth to power, if you're going up against the world's first trillionaire, you're always going to be the underdog. And so we're campaigning like we are five points behind. And so, you know, you know, I I would ask anyone watching to spare a thought or a prayer for me. I really do believe that when you put energy out into the universe, it has a ripple effect. And so I hope wherever people are watching or listening, even if they don't agree with my politics, even if they're going to vote for the other candidate, I hope they'll they'll keep me in their thoughts and their prayers.
>> 谢谢你。
Original English >> Thank you.
>> 谢谢。
Original English >> Thank you.
>> 我们录完了。谢谢你。非常感谢。太感谢了。
Original English >> We're done. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.
>> 谢谢。YouTube 出了这个疯狂的新算法，基于人工智能和你的所有观看行为，能精确知道你接下来想看什么视频。算法说这个视频对你来说是最完美的。现在每个在看的人看到的都不一样。去看看这个视频吧。我敢打赌，你可能会喜欢的。
Original English >> Thank you. YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing behavior. And the algorithm says that this video is the perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking right now. Check this video out. I bet you, you might love it.