--- author: TVO Today date: '2026-11-05' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gvakrozmog speaker: TVO Today tags: - leadership-debate - provincial-politics - economic-policy - public-healthcare - housing-crisis title: 2026年安大略省自由党党领辩论：四位候选人聚焦经济、医疗与住房危机 summary: 在2026年安大略省自由党党领竞选的最终辩论中，四位候选人Navdeep Bains、Stephanie Bowman、Lee Fairclough和Dylan Marando就如何重振自由党、应对关税与生活成本危机、平衡财政预算、修补医疗与住房系统以及各自的政治优缺点展开深入探讨。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: politics-society area: society-thinking project: [] people: - Steve Paikin - Navdeep Bains - Stephanie Bowman - Lee Fairclough - Dylan Marando - Doug Ford companies_orgs: - Ontario Liberal Party - TVO products_models: [] media_books: - TVO Today Live status: evergreen --- ### 辩论开场与竞选主旨 >> 我是史蒂夫·佩金（Steve Paikin）。在2003年、2007年、2011年和2014年，安大略省自由党连续赢得了四次省选，其中三次组成了多数政府。但自2018年以来，他们经历了连续三次沦为第三名的惨败。在该省联邦成立后近160年的历史中，这种情况此前从未发生过。在今晚的《TVO Today Live》节目中，我们将结识希望改变这一局面的四位候选人。我们目前位于多伦多市中心的威廉·G·戴维斯（William G. Davis）演播室，迎来2026年安大略省自由党党领竞选的最终辩论。以下是按字母顺序排列的四位竞争者：前联邦内阁部长纳夫迪普·贝恩斯（Navdeep Bains）、现任当谷西选区（Don Valley West）省议员斯蒂芬妮·鲍曼（Stephanie Bowman）、现任怡陶碧谷-湖滨选区（Etobicoke-Lakeshore）省议员李·费尔克拉夫（Lee Fairclough），以及曾担任两位省长和一位总理政策顾问的迪伦·马兰多（Dylan Marando）。非常高兴四位能来到市中心演播室。这确实带有一点讽刺意味——我不知道这是一种淘气的幽默感还是别的什么，能看到四位自由党人在以我们有生之年最成功的保守党省长命名的威廉·G·戴维斯演播室里展开角逐。不过无论如何，大家能来参加这场辩论，都说明大家很有幽默感。我不知道你们感觉如何，但我确实有点累，昨晚我看期中选举一直看到凌晨一点。我敢打赌你们肯定也看到了那么晚。你们觉得那是个好结果吗？
Original English >> I'm Steve Paikin in 2003, 2007, 2011, and 2014, the Ontario Liberal Party racked up four consecutive election victories, three of them with majority governments. But since 2018, they have suffered through three straight third place finishes. That has never happened before. In nearly 160 years. Of this province's post-confederation history. In tonight's edition of TVO Today Live, we'll get a look at the four candidates who hope to change that. We are here in the William G. Davis studio in Midtown Toronto for the final debate of the 2026 Ontario Liberal leadership race. And here are the four contenders in alphabetical order. Former federal cabinet minister Navdeep Bains, the current MPP for Don Valley West, Stephanie Bowman, the current MPP for Etobicoke-Lakeshore, Lee Fairclough and former policy adviser to two premiers and a prime minister, Dylan Marando. It is great to have the four of you here in Midtown. There's a certain irony. I don't know if it's a mischievous sense of humour or what to see four Liberals duking it out in the William G. Davis studio, named after the most successful conservative premier of our lifetimes. But anyway, you've all got a good enough sense of humour to show up for this. I don't know about you, but I'm a little tired. I was up watching the midterms till one in the morning. I bet you guys were, too. You think it was a great outcome?
>> 哦，我挺高兴的。
Original English >> Oh, I'm pretty happy.
>> 我觉得大家……
Original English >> I think everybody.
>> 此时此刻……
Original English >> At this.
>> 我想你们四位大概都挺高兴的。正如你们所见，因为我们这场辩论的形式安排，这不会是那种设有讲台之类的正规辩论规则。它更像是一场对话。我们非常欢迎大家相互交流探讨，那我们现在就开始吧。让我们先从这个问题开始：每一场竞选都有其核心主题。这次竞选的核心是什么？纳夫。
Original English >> I think all four of you are probably pretty happy. As you can tell, because of the way we've sort of set this up. This is not going to be sort of formal debate rules with podiums and all that. It's more of a conversation. We'd love you guys to engage with each other and away we go. Let's start with this. Every campaign is about something. What's this one about? Nav.
>> 史蒂夫，问得好。对于我以及我一直以来的竞选主张而言，核心词就是“机遇”。我父亲50多年前来到这里时获得的机遇，以及我成长过程中所获得的机遇。而如今这些机遇正在消失，人们感到非常沮丧。他们渴望改变。因此，这场竞选的核心就是选出一个能够带来变革、能够确保人们拥有更好生活成果的人。
Original English >> Great question Steve. I would say for me and what I've been campaigning on is the word opportunity. Opportunities that were afforded to my father when he arrived here over 50 years ago, opportunities that were afforded to me growing up. Those opportunities are disappearing and people are frustrated. They want change. So this campaign is about someone who can deliver change, and someone who can make sure that people have better outcomes.
>> 斯蒂芬妮，这次竞选的核心是什么？
Original English >> Stephanie what's this about?
>> 史蒂夫，我认为核心完全在于经济。人们深感担忧。他们正面临生活成本危机和住房可负担性危机。我们需要建立一个有温度的强劲经济，这样我们才能为所有人赖以生存的公共服务买单，因为在道格·福特（Doug Ford）领导的保守党政府下，公共服务正在崩溃，人们深切体会到了这一点。
Original English >> Steve. I think it's all about the economy. People are worried. They're facing a cost of living crisis, a housing affordability crisis. And we need to build a strong economy with heart so we can pay for the public services we all rely on, because under this Doug Ford, conservative government, public services are crumbling and people are feeling it.
>> 我们，我认为这场竞选的核心是为安大略省带来人们所期待的改变。这意味着需要一个务实严肃的政府。这还意味着我们要自下而上重建我们的党，以便我们做好准备迎战保守党，并凝聚、倾注我们所有的精力去做到这一点。这给人一种紧迫感。在我目前走访的全省124个选区中的123个里，每个人站出来表达的都是完全相同的心声。他们指望安省自由党能带来这种改变。
Original English >> We I think that this race is about bringing the change for Ontario that people are looking for. And that means serious government. And it means rebuilding our party from the grassroots up so that we can be ready to take on the conservatives and unify and direct all our energy at doing just that. And it feels urgent. And as I've been to now, 123 of 124 ridings across this province, everybody is showing up to say exactly that. And they're looking for Ontario Liberals to be that change.
>> 迪伦。
Original English >> Dylan.
>> 变革？是的。经济层面的变革？是的。女王公园（省议会）的变革，但同样也包括我们党内部的变革。因为你之前用到了那个词——“疲倦”，自由党人已经厌倦了失败。所以我们必须翻开新的一页。我们必须展现崭新的面孔、大胆的想法和理直气壮的自由主义。
Original English >> Change? Yes. Change in the economy? Yes. Change at Queen's Park, but also change within our own party. Because you used the word before. Tired liberals are tired of losing. So we've got to turn the page. We got to present fresh faces, bold ideas and unapologetic liberalism.
### 如何打破败选宿命与重塑政党 >> 避免重蹈贵党过去三任党领覆辙的秘诀是什么？也就是输、输、输；第三名、第三名、第三名。
Original English >> What is the secret to avoiding the fate of the last three leaders that your party has had, namely lost, lost, lost. Third place, third place, third place?
>> 我认为有几点。首先，我们必须走出女王公园的舒适圈泡沫。我认为我们的下一任党领必须在接下来的三年里，把每一天的每一小时都花在从金斯顿到凯诺拉、从温莎到北湾的各个咖啡馆和皇家退伍军人协会大厅里。我们必须向多伦多以外、女王公园以外的民众证明，我们正在倾听他们的声音，正在为他们发声。第二点，正如我刚才所说，我们要理直气壮地做自由党人。我们必须挺身而出并表明：省长的工作不是模仿总理，不是去当多伦多市长，而是在全省的每一个角落建设公立资助的教育、公立资助的医疗和公共基础设施。这才是省长的职责。李。
Original English >> I think there's a couple of things. First, we got to get outside the bubble of Queen's Park. I think our next leader has to spend every hour of every day for the next three years in coffee shops and legion halls, from Kingston to Kenora, from Windsor to North Bay. We have to show folks outside of Toronto, outside of Queen's Park, that we are listening to them and that we are lifting up their voices. And the second thing we got to do, as I said before, is be unapologetic liberals. We have to stand up and say the job of a premier isn't to mimic the Prime Minister. It isn't to be the mayor of Toronto. It's to build up publicly funded education and publicly funded health care and public infrastructure in every corner of the province. That's the job of a Premier Li.
>> 我认为关键在于让民众看到一个接地气、深切关注他们切身利益的严肃领导层。我想我们昨天在美国的选举结果中也看到了这一点，不是吗？人们走出来投票，他们担心自己的生活成本，他们担心可负担性问题。在全省各地走访时，我听到的也是同样的声音——他们看到一位脱离群众的省长，在家庭承受沉重可负担压力的时刻却投资购买私人飞机，他们正在寻求新的领导层。
Original English >> I think it's for people to see serious leadership that's in touch with the issues that matter to them, and I think we saw this yesterday, didn't we, with the outcome in the US. People showed up, they voted, and they're worried about their cost of living. They're worried about the affordability issues. And as I've travelled around this province, I'm hearing the same that they see a Premier that is out of touch, investing in a private jet when the affordability pressures are so hard for families and they are looking for new leadership.
>> 他把飞机卖了。
Original English >> He sold the jet.
>> 他是把飞机卖了，但我认为他是卖给了自己的包机公司。
Original English >> He sold the jet, but I think he sold it to his charter company.
>> 难道不是吗？
Original English >> Didn't he?
>> 他依然在坐那架……
Original English >> He's still riding the.
>> 飞机。
Original English >> Jet.
>> 但我认为，说正经的，我的意思是民众在寻找一个能在经济上引领前进的党领，同时也能确保医疗服务能够随时保障我们，包括心理健康服务，并且教育也能得到保障。
Original English >> But I think, you know, but in all seriousness, I mean, I think that they're looking for a leader that's going to lead out on the economy, but is also going to make sure that health care is going to be there for us, including mental health care. Education is going to be there as well.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> Stephanie.
>> 听着，你看，我们已经尝试过两次让没有省议会席位的人担任党领，结果保守党把我们打得惨败。所以我认为我们必须做些不同的事情。而且我认为，拥有席位意味着我们不会有一个为去哪里参选而分心的党领，而是能够真正专注于探讨安大略省人民的需求。我们知道我们在住房、失业、阿片类药物成瘾方面都面临危机。我常说每个领域都像是着了火，从字面意义上我们今年夏天在北部发生的真正山火，到人们为了获得所需护理而苦苦在走廊里等待。我们需要严肃认真的政府，需要一位严肃认真的党领，能够重建安大略省的经济，以此来支付我们所有人所需的公共服务。
Original English >> Look, I you know, we've tried twice having a leader without a seat and the conservatives beat us very badly. So I think we need to do something different. And I think having a seat means that we don't have a leader who's distracted by where they're going to run and can focus on actually talking about the the needs of the people of Ontario. We know that we've got crises in in housing, in unemployment, in opioid addiction. We have crisis in every I say every file is on fire, you know, literally from the actual fires in the north that we had this summer to people waiting in hallways to get the care they need. We need serious government, and we need a serious leader who can rebuild Ontario's economy to pay for the public services we all need.
>> 避免第四次沦落为第三名的方法究竟是什么？
Original English >> The way to avoid a fourth, third place finish is what?
>> 听着，我开场发言就谈到了机遇，而对民众来说最重要的机遇就是获得一份好工作。五分之一的年轻人找不到工作。所以我认为回到关于可负担性、就业和经济的观点上，这正是自由党人必须探讨的议题。我们不能把这块阵地让给道格·福特。作为前工业部长以及有过私营部门工作经历的人，我带来的这些经验不仅可以用来探讨医疗和教育——史蒂夫，这些当然非常重要——但你同样必须拥有健全有力的经济主张。人们感到焦虑，对吧？人们不仅在日常开支中挣扎，而且还对唐纳德·特朗普（Donald Trump）那边的动态感到焦虑。尽管我们简短讨论过期中选举，可能让人稍微松了一口气，但他依然是特朗普总统。我们必须与他们打交道。这在民众中引发了巨大的焦虑。因此，你需要一位能够针对我们今天面临的经济挑战发表见解的自由党党领，同时也为医疗和教育提供可靠且可预期的支持。
Original English >> Look, I started my remarks talking about opportunity and the most important opportunity for folks is getting a good job. 1 in 5 young folks can't find a job. So I think going back to the point around affordability, jobs, the economy, that's what liberals have to talk about. We can't see that ground to Doug Ford. And as former industry minister, someone who has worked in the private sector, I bring those experiences not only to talk about health care and education, which are very important, Steve, but you got to have a sound economic message as well. People are feeling anxious, right? People are not are struggling with their day to day costs, but they're also feeling anxious about what's happening with Donald Trump, even though the midterms we talked about briefly, there might be a sigh of relief, but it's still President Trump. And we got to deal with them. And that's causing a lot of anxiety amongst folks. So you need a Liberal leader who can speak to the economic challenges that we're facing today, as well as providing reliable and predictable supports for health care and education.
>> 李。
Original English >> Lee.
>> 你提出的问题是，我们如何才能取得不同的结果？这需要从基层地方层面重新建立。作为自由党人，我今天也在回忆：2022年我曾坐在这里，当时是在一个落选候选人的讨论小组中；2025年我又坐在这里，是在一个为自由党赢得选区的获胜候选人小组中。我在怡陶碧谷-湖滨选区翻转那个保守党席位的经历中领悟到的是：我们在两次选举之间所做的工作才是最为关键的。那么我们该怎么做？我称之为在我们选区协会中重新锻炼我们的“地方肌肉”，我们的青年自由党人是全党最振奋人心的部分之一。我们的长者委员会、北部与农村委员会——如果我们真的想要获得不同的结果，就必须在全省所有这些领域进行建设。
Original English >> So your question to is, how do we get to a different result? And that is going to take building at a local level. Again, as liberals, I, I was reminiscing today. I was here in 2022 on a panel of candidates that had lost. I was here in 2025 on a panel of candidates that had won for the Liberal Party. And what I learned in that experience in Etobicoke-Lakeshore, turning that conservative riding is the work we do between the elections is going to be the most critical. So how are we? I call it building our local muscles again in our riding associations, our young liberals are one of the most inspiring parts of the party. Our seniors Commission, the Northern and Rural Commission, we need to be building in all parts of those provinces if we really, truly want to get to a different outcome.
>> 让我顺着……
Original English >> Let me pick.
>> 为我们的候选人参加竞选。
Original English >> Up on the run race for our candidates.
### 参选动机与个人劣势剖析 >> 让我顺着这一点继续，因为你指出两次选举之间要展开的工作至关重要，对任何想要最终组建政府的政党来说都是如此。现任政府有权执政到2030年4月，这意味着无论是谁赢得这份工作，在获得成为省长的机会之前，都要在这个岗位上干很长一段时间。除非他提前举行选举。我并不想把这个问题问得像个自作聪明的人，但鉴于这个党在过去八年里的历史记录，先请斯蒂芬妮回答，为什么现在有人会想要这份工作？
Original English >> Let me pick up on that because you point out the work to be done between elections is crucial for any party that wants to eventually form government. This current government is entitled to be in office until April of 2030, which means whoever wins this job is going to have this job for a long time before they get a shot at being premier. Probably unless he goes early. I don't mean this to sound like a smart aleck question, but but, you know, given the track record of this party over the last eight years, Stephanie first, why does anybody want this job right.
>> 确实……
Original English >> Now?
>> 有时候是有这种感觉，史蒂夫。
Original English >> There are days, Steve.
>> 确实有些日子会这么想。
Original English >> There are days.
>> 不，不，这是一场非常精彩的竞选。当然，在座的所有候选人都带来了很多真才实学。我们需要在座的每一个人来协助重建这个党。事实上，我认为这正是我们需要探讨的事情。我们需要确保在全省各地拥有背景和技能多元化的候选人。而我之所以想要这份工作，是因为我深爱这个省份。在我五岁的时候，我第一次去做志愿服务。我挨家挨户推销我阿姨做的软糖，为残障儿童筹款。正是对安大略省的这份热爱，这份服务的责任感，促使我在2022年响应号召出来参选。这也正是我现在站出来竞选党领的动力所在。
Original English >> No, no, it's been a great it's been a great race. And of course, all the candidates here bring a lot to the table. And we need everybody at this table to help, help rebuild the party. And that's actually something that I think we we do need to talk about. We need to make sure we've got diverse candidates in every part of this province with diverse backgrounds and skills. And the reason I want the job is because I care about this province. You know, I volunteered for the first time when I was five years old. I sold my aunt's fudge door to door to raise money for children living with disabilities. And it's that same love for my province, that same duty to serve that called me to, to, to respond to the call to run in 2022. And that's calling me to, to run now for leader.
>> 迪伦，为什么会有人想要这份工作？
Original English >> Dylan, why does anybody want this job?
>> 我想要这份工作是因为我想把道格·福特赶下台，他目前正在拆解我们的公共服务。他在教育工作者身上锱铢必较，从而亏待了我们的孩子。他在医疗方面溃败不堪。特别是，他遗忘了整整一代人。目前二三十岁和四十岁的人群正处于我们经济的边缘。而他们之所以处于经济的边缘，是因为他们处于我们政治的边缘。所以我在竞选中想做的、我作为党领想做的、以及我作为省长想做的，就是对那些人说：你们在安大略省自由党拥有一个政治大本营。我们会让你们的生活轻松得多。我们将为你们创造一种充满机遇和抱负的文化，而不是像道格·福特那样创造一种成瘾文化。史蒂夫，道格·福特最大的政策遗产就是网络赌博。由于安大略省的市场规模如此之大，我们在加拿大乃至全球网络赌博中名列第三。我们必须有勇气站出来说：本省禁止网络赌博。
Original English >> I want this job because I want to kick Doug Ford out of office, and he's dismantling our public services right now. He's shortchanging our kids by nickel and diming our educators. He's failing on health care. And in particular, he's forgotten an entire generation. Folks in their 20s, 30s, and 40s right now are on the margins of our economy. And the reason they're on the margins of our economy is because they're on the margins of our politics. So what I want to do in my campaign, what I want to do as leader, what I want to do as Premier of the province, is say to those folks, you have a political home base in the Ontario Liberal Party. We're going to make your life a lot easier. We're going to create a culture of opportunity and ambition for you, not a culture of addiction. Like Doug Ford has Doug Ford's greatest policy legacy. Steve is online gambling. We are third in the world in Canada for online gambling because of how big that market is in Ontario. And we have to have the courage to stand up and say, no online gambling in this province.
>> 你想禁掉它？
Original English >> You want to ban.
>> 绝对要禁，彻底禁止。现在就别管什么研究报告了，别管什么禁播广告了。道格·福特就是“罪恶之城”的市长。我们需要一位能够为年轻人创造抱负与机遇文化的省长。
Original English >> It absolutely, fully. Now, forget the studies. Forget banning ads. Doug Ford is the mayor of Sin City. We need a Premier that is going to create a culture of ambition and opportunity for young people.
>> 好吧，现在让我回到最初的问题，那就是为什么有人会想要这份工作。我认为这个问题对你来说尤其切合，因为平心而论，你的政治经验都在联邦层面。自由党在联邦层面非常受欢迎。如果你想从私营部门重返公共生活，你大可以选择去联邦，大概能随意挑选几个不同的选区，很可能直接步入内阁。那会是一条轻松得多的道路。为什么要走这条路？
Original English >> Okay, now let me get back to the original question, which is why anybody would want this job. And I think it's a particularly good one for you, because let's face it, your experience in politics is federal. The Liberals are very popular federally. You could, if you wanted to make a comeback from the private sector into public life, you could go federal, probably get your choice of a bunch of different seats, probably march into cabinet. That'd be a much easier road to take. Why take this road?
>> 我深爱这个省份。我出生在这里，我的女儿们也在这里抚养长大。我无法眼睁睁看着各项事业走向衰退却无动于衷，史蒂夫。我是说，如果你看一下教育、医疗和经济，都在朝错误的方向发展。关于你提到的我们如何击败道格·福特，正如你所说，我在联邦层面拥有重建政党的经验。我曾是一个了不起的团队的一员，该团队帮助自由党从第三名跃升至第一名；我也希望带领安大略省的团队同样从第三名走向多数政府。正如你所强调的，这需要付出大量努力，甚至可能需要几年时间，但这是值得的，因为我真的深爱这个省份，史蒂夫。我站出来不仅是为了我和父母所获得的那些机遇，也是为了我的女儿们以及她们这一代人的机遇。
Original English >> I love this province. I was born here. I'm raising my girls here. And I couldn't stand by idly watching things in decline. Steve. I mean, if you look at education and health and the economy all going in the wrong direction, and to your point about how we beat Doug Ford, I've got experience federally, as you mentioned, about rebuilding the party. I was part of an amazing team that helped the Liberals go from third to first, and I want to lead the team here in Ontario to go from third to a majority government as well. And as you've highlighted, it takes a lot of work and may even take a few years, but it's worth it because I truly love this province, Steve. And I want to step up not only for the opportunities that were afforded to me and my parents, but for my daughters and their generation as well.
>> 为什么选这份工作，李？
Original English >> Why this job, Lee?
>> 为这个省带来变革的感觉十分迫切。而且，如你所知，我辞去了圣玛丽总医院（Saint Mary's General Hospital）院长的职务出来参选，因为我无法袖手旁观本省医疗事业所遭受的破坏。那是我内心的动力之火。如今我来到了女王公园，几乎在其他每一个问题上，那团火都变得更加炽烈。因此，从我的角度来看，我将坚守到底，直到换掉那届政府，毫无疑问。我就像咬住骨头不放的猎犬一样，坚决要把他们拉下马。至于为什么是现在？这种所需要的领导力在于：我们确实身处第三大党的位置。民调显示公众希望我们获胜。所以我们需要开展重建。我们需要一个领袖。而且我认为我是这群候选人中唯一领导过大型、数百万美元级复杂机构的人。我们需要一位懂得如何凝聚团队并确保我们实现目标的领导者。这正是为何我现在挺身而出。
Original English >> It feels urgent to bring change in this province. And I you know, as you know, I left being a president at Saint Mary's General Hospital to run for office because I couldn't stand by and watch what was happening to health care in this province. That was the fire in my belly. And I get to Queen's Park now, and that fire is only stronger on just about every other issue. So that's, you know, from my perspective, I'm in this until that government changes, no question. I'm like a dog with a bone to make sure that we're going to stop them. And why now? Well, the kind of leadership that's needed is that we do. We are in we are the third party. The polls say the public wants us to win. So we need to do that rebuilding. And we need a leader. And I think I'm the only one among this group that has led a large, multi-million dollar complex Organization. We need a leader that knows how to bring that team together and make sure that we can get to that result. And that's why I've stepped forward now.
>> 好的。到目前为止我提出的问题，显然都是为了让你们展示自己的领导才能以及你们为这份工作带来的优势。现在我想稍微调转一下角度：尽管你们都很优秀，但你们也都有各自的弱点。我想知道，作为政党的潜在党领，你们认为自己最大的软肋或劣势是什么，以及你们打算如何应对。迪伦。
Original English >> Okay. The questions that I've asked so far have obviously been designed to allow you to kind of show your leadership chops and what you bring to the job. I want to turn the tables a little bit now and say, okay, as marvellous as you all are, you all have weaknesses as well. And I'd like to know what you consider to be your biggest liability as a potential leader of a political party and what you intend to do about it. Dylan.
>> 这个问题我先来回答吧。何乐而不为呢？
Original English >> I got to go first on this one. Why not?
>> 有人对我说：“迪伦，你曾为两位省长和一位总理工作过。你是一个麦坚迪（McGuinty）-韦恩（Wynne）-特鲁多（Trudeau）式的自由党人。”他们试图以此来攻击我。但我对此的回答是：我是一个主张关停燃煤电厂、提高最低工资、推行每天10加元托儿服务的自由党人。因此我认为，对某些人来说他们视其为负资产，但这实则是一笔财富。我们必须提醒民众我们自由党的政治遗产。我们必须提醒大家，我们曾让他们的生活更加负担得起，我们曾建设了我们的公共服务。如果我能再用30秒，我想讲个故事。我和一群朋友一起长大，现在时不时还会聚一聚，他们不搞政治。谢天谢地，他们都是很棒的人。在过去十年里，当他们去投票时，大多数时候可能投的都是蓝营（保守党）。但现在当我与那些人见面时，他们有了年幼的孩子，所以他们对班级规模有了更多考虑；他们有了年迈的父母，所以他们对居家护理有了更多考虑；也许他们受到了山火或洪水的波及，所以他们对气候行动的看法也有些不同。换句话说，他们其实是自由党人，只是他们自己还没意识到。我认为，如果我们能找到一种方式，理直气壮地做自由党人，唤醒他们心中向善的天性，大声疾呼投资公共服务的重要性，我们就能把这些人争取过来。
Original English >> So folks have said to me, Dylan, you work for two premiers on a prime minister. You're a McGuinty Wynne Trudeau liberal, and they try to use that as an attack on me. But my answer to that is I'm a shut down core raising minimum wage, $10 a day child care liberal. So I think for some folks, they'll see it as a liability, but it's an asset. We got to remind folks of our liberal legacy. We got to remind folks that we made their lives more affordable. We built up our public services. And if I can take another 30s here, I'll tell you a story. I grew up with a group of guys who I get together with now and then who aren't political. Thank God for that. Great guys. And when they do vote over the last ten years, they've probably voted blue most of the time. But now when I meet up with those guys, they have young kids, so they're thinking a lot more about class sizes and they have ageing parents. So they're thinking a lot more about home care. Maybe they're affected by wildfires or floods, so they're thinking a little bit differently about climate action. In other words, they're liberals, but they don't know it yet. And I think if we find a way to be unapologetic liberals and speak to their better angels and be loud about the importance of investing in public services, we win those people over.
>> 纳夫，谈谈你的一个劣势以及你打算如何应对。
Original English >> Nam tell me about one of your liabilities and what you can do about it.
>> 嗯，我六年前离开了政界，所以有人会认为我有些手生了，因此在这次党领竞选中我需要时间去重新结识全省各地我已经很久没见的人们。我现在可以告诉你，走到基层去倾听而不是去说教，让我变成了一个更好的政治家，因为我能更深刻地理解问题。在经济、医疗和教育方面，我显然有一套自己想要推动的想法，但当你在基层重新建立联系、参加所有这些省自由党协会的活动时，你对政治以及民众正在经历的处境会有更深刻的体会。所以我想说我的挑战在于：我六年前离开政坛去陪伴我的女儿们。她们现在大了一些，正如我所说，我现在是为了她们而参选，而且我也能切身体会到她们面临的一些挑战。
Original English >> Well, I left politics six years ago, so some would argue that I'm a bit rusty, so I needed time in this leadership race to re-engage with folks that I haven't seen across the province in quite some time. And I can tell you right now, going out there and not lecturing, but actually listening has helped me become a better politician because I better understand the issues. I obviously had a set of ideas that I wanted to push forward on the economy and health care and education, but when you're out there re-engaging and going to all these provincial liberal association events, you get a much better understanding of politics and what people are going through. So I would say the challenge for me was I left politics six years ago to spend time with my girls. They're a bit older now, and as I said, I'm running because of them now, and I can speak to some of the challenges that they.
>> 感觉生疏吗？因为我和每一位政治家交谈——我不是故意在这找茬——每一位进入私营部门然后再回来的政治家，都会承认重新回到政坛时不得不抖落一些身上的生锈感。
Original English >> Face feel rusty because every politician I've talked to, I'm not trying to be a smart actor. Every politician I've talked to who goes into the private sector, then comes back in, admits to having to shake off a bit of the rust when they get back in.
>> 我认为对我而言这是一个非常恰当的描述。我确实需要时间重新与选区协会、各委员会以及全省各地的自由党人建立联系，甚至吸引更多的人加入自由党。因此，走出去找回那种节奏并与人们交谈确实花了一些时间。但最主要的是我在倾听，我在倾听和学习。
Original English >> I think that's a very fair characterisation when it comes to me. I needed the time to re-engage with the riding associations, with the commissions, with Liberals across this province, and even bringing more people into the Liberal Party. And so that that took some time to go out there and get that rhythm and talk to people. But the main thing was I was listening, I was listening and learning.
>> 李，你最大的劣势是什么，你又打算怎么应对？
Original English >> Lee, your biggest liability and what you do about it?
>> 嗯，我认为，你看，我虽然有一个议席，但我是在上届选举中才当选的。所以政治对我来说相对较新。在此之前我在医疗系统工作了27年。因此，真正参加党领竞选非常特别的一部分就是随之而来的成长。我觉得，早在去年一月，我真的是最早非正式加入这场竞选的人之一。现在的候选人阵容已经完全不同了。我觉得自那时起我成长了，我在每个议题上都学到了很多。我也意识到，那种领导经验，那种在医疗领域工作、直接面对病患、亲眼目睹变革的经验，如今在我获得了安大略省农村、北部等全省各地的视角之后，将使我成为一个优秀得多的领袖。所以我认为竞选本身一直在为我适应这份工作做准备。
Original English >> Well, I think, you know, I have a seat, but I was elected last election. And so politics is newer to me. I've spent 27 years in health care before that. And so really, what has been so such a special part of actually running in the leadership is the growth that comes with it. And I feel, you know, I really was one of the first to jump into this, even unofficially way back last January. It's a totally different set of candidates. And I feel like since then I have grown. I have learned so much about every topic. I've also realised that that experience of leadership, that experience working in healthcare, working directly with patients, seeing the change it will. Now that I have had the perspectives from all parts of the province in rural Ontario, northern Ontario, I will be a far better leader. So I think that the race itself has been preparing me for what this job will be.
>> 你感到畏惧吗？作为一个新晋省议员，要去对抗一个连续赢得三次多数政府的人？
Original English >> Are you daunted.
>> 作为新晋议员，去挑战一个三连胜多数政府的人？
Original English >> At all? As a rookie MPP, going up against a guy who's won three straight majorities?
>> 谦逊地说，我认为我只会继续成长，而且我认为我将与道格·福特形成鲜明的对比。很多人问我：“你打算怎么打败他？”我说，我会在风格上与他形成强烈的反差。我依然知道如何与普通人沟通。当然，大多数人听说我曾为加拿大国家女子橄榄球队打过橄榄球时，他们就会觉得：“哦，她足够强硬。”
Original English >> Well, I think that humbly, I will just continue to grow, and I think I will be a sharp contrast to Doug Ford. A lot of people have said to me, how are you going to beat him? I said, well, I'm going to be a sharp contrast to the style that he is. I still know how to relate to people. And then, of course, most people, when they hear that I played rugby for Canadian women's rugby team and they're like, oh, she's tough enough.
>> 她能搞定他。
Original English >> She's got him.
>> 好吧。
Original English >> Okay.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> Stephanie.
>> 史蒂夫，你知道，我经常说一个人最大的优点往往也是其最大的缺点。我想我们都能对此产生共鸣。我想说的是，我的一些最大优点是被人认为是一个称职、负责和严肃认真的人。如果把这些反过来，它们是我的缺点吗？有些人可能会说：“斯蒂芬妮，你到底有没有体会过任何乐趣？”对此我会说：有啊，来加入我们的竞选团队吧。我们的竞选面包车被我们称为“鲍面包车”（Bo van）。实际上，我们一直在全省巡回公路上，我们玩得非常开心。和年轻人在一起的感觉太棒了，他们带来了无尽的活力。对此感到非常高兴。但我也认为，这也就是一部分性格体现吧。我是四姐弟中的老大，有三个弟弟。我认为我在金融和商业领域的经验，以及在加拿大银行（央行）董事会任职的经历，可能会让人们说：“嗯，你看，那是个很严肃的人。她能对付得了道格·福特吗？”对吧？毕竟，他是个亲民接地气的那种……
Original English >> You know, Steve, I often say that someone's greatest strengths are also their greatest weaknesses. I think we can all relate to that. And I would say that some of my greatest strengths are being known as someone who's competent, responsible and serious. So flipping those to be are those my weaknesses. Some people might say, well, do you ever have any fun? Stephanie and I to that I say, yes, come and join our campaign. Our campaign, the Bo van, we called it. Actually, we were on the road travelling across the province, and we had a lot of fun. It's great to be around young people. The energy that they bring. So very happy about that. But I also think that, you know, that that's part of being. I was the eldest of four, you know, three younger brothers. And I think that my experience in finance and business, serving on the board of the Bank of Canada, people might say, well, you know, that's a serious person. Can she take on Doug Ford? Right? Like, you know, he's a folksy kind.
>> 的家伙。
Original English >> Of guy.
>> 他颇具吸引力，有噱头。是的。请原谅我，但我从没听人们这么评价过你。
Original English >> He's he's got some pizzazz. Yeah. And you'll forgive me, but I've never heard people say that about you.
>> 是的，没错。
Original English >> Well, right.
>> 这就是我所指的。但我认为事实证明，银行家能成为相当出色的政治领袖。
Original English >> This is what this is what I'm saying. But I think that turns out bankers make pretty good political leaders.
>> 那是在暗指谁呢？
Original English >> And what was that a reference to?
>> 还有，不，我认为，你看，在加拿大银行董事会任职期间，我深刻认识到这些机构的重要性。我认为拥有一个懂经济的人至关重要，如果你显得有点严肃、枯燥和称职，如果这意味着你很称职，那我把这当成一种夸奖。
Original English >> And. No. And I think, you know, I think, again, my time on the board of the Bank of Canada, I learned a lot about how important it is those institutions. And I think having somebody who understands the economy, if you're a little bit serious and boring and competent, if that if that means you're competent, I'll take that as a compliment.
### 经济政策与预算平衡 >> 好的。你提到了经济，那我们现在就开始讨论政策。我确实想从经济谈起，因为总理等多方人士都表示，我们现在正处于一个“断裂”的时代。你看到贸易一直被武器化。我们面临关税问题。我们看到了斯特尔科钢铁（Stelco）和阿尔戈马钢铁（Algoma）的遭遇。我的意思是，在全省许多地方，包括汽车工厂、石油等行业，现在都是一个非常艰难的时期。尽管昨晚特朗普遭到了挫败，但我们与美国之间依然存在极不确定的贸易关系。我想请你们每个人提出一个你们认为能在这个破裂时代促进经济增长的大胆新构想。纳夫，请讲。
Original English >> Okay. You mentioned the economy and let's start talking policy now. And I do want to start with the economy because the Prime Minister among many says we are in a time of rupture right now. And you see trade being weaponized all the time. We've got the tariff issues. We've got what's happening in Stelco at Algoma. I mean, it's a really difficult time in the province in many places, car plants, oil and so on. We've got a very uncertain trade relationship with the United States in spite of the kicking that Trump took last night. I'd like to get from each of you one new big idea that you think can grow this economy in a time of rupture. Now let's go.
>> 听着，核心构想就是必须投资于人。道格·福特为他的死党们设立了一个25亿加元的技能与发展专用小金库。那笔钱并没有流向那些需要获得紧缺岗位技能、或者需要转岗培训和技能提升的人。你提到了唐纳德·特朗普，正如我开场时也提到的，人们只是在寻找转型的机会。如果斯特尔科面临挑战，或者阿尔戈马面临挑战，又或者汽车行业面临挑战，我们当然会竭尽全力保护这些行业，但我们也必须确保这些人在中短期内拥有其他的出路。因此我认为，必须以更有意义的方式加大对技能和教育的投入。你看，这届政府削减了教育经费，管砸了技能基金，彻底搞砸了安大略省学生援助计划（OSAP）这项高等教育财务支持。因此，在真正投资于人方面，这届政府要么深陷丑闻，要么彻底迷失了方向。
Original English >> Look, the big idea is you got to invest in people, Doug Ford created a $2.5 billion slush fund for skills and development for his buddies. That money didn't go to people who needed the skills for in-demand jobs, or to reskill or upskill. You're talking about Donald Trump. I mentioned at the beginning as well. People are just looking for opportunities to pivot. If Stelco is a challenge or Algoma is a challenge, or the automotive sector is a challenge, of course we're going to do everything to protect those sectors, but we also got to make sure those people have other pathways as well. In the short to medium term. So I would say just doubling down on skills and education in a more meaningful way. Look, this government has cut funding for education. It's mismanaged the skills fund. It's completely mishandled. OSAP the financial support for post-secondary education. So when it comes to actually investing in people, this government is either stuck in scandal or completely lost.
>> 迪伦，谈谈你的大胆构想。
Original English >> Dylan, let's have a big idea here.
>> 在任何时代，二三十岁和四十岁的人群始终都是经济的顶梁柱。一直以来皆是如此。但此时此刻，我这一代人面临着一座格外陡峭的高山。因此我们需要特别向他们倾斜的政策解决方案。我呼吁对所有35岁及以下、收入低于50,000加元的人免征个人所得税。这每年将给每位年轻劳动者的钱包里省下2000加元。每年如此。我呼吁让本省的早期教育和托儿服务实现真正的全民普及。目前进入该系统的家庭，每个孩子每年能节省9000加元。我还承诺将省统一销售税（HST）的1个百分点拨给各市镇，以便他们能够更快地建设必要的基础设施，从而带动住房建设提速。正是这些措施能为我这一代人创造机遇；如果我们希望经济全面发力，就必须让我这一代人开足马力，这对所有人都有利。
Original English >> It's always the case that folks in their 20s, 30s, and 40s are the backbone of the economy every era. That's true. But right now, my generation is facing a particularly steep hill. So we need policy solutions that pay special attention to them. I've called for eliminating personal income tax for anyone 35 years or younger on earnings less than $50,000. That's going to put 2000 bucks in the pocket of every young worker. Every year. I've called for making early learning and childcare truly universal in this province. Folks who are in the system right now are saving 9000 bucks per year per kid. And I've also promised to kick one point of the HST to municipalities so that they can build essential infrastructure faster, which is going to lead to housing being built faster. That's the kind of stuff that's going to create opportunity for my generation, and we need my generation firing on all cylinders if we want the economy to fire on all cylinders, which is good for everyone.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> Stephanie you know, Steve,
>> 史蒂夫，你知道，我对我发布的经济政纲非常自豪。我的团队和我为此付出了巨大努力，并收获了非常积极的反馈。所以很难只挑选出一个主意。这有点像问你最喜欢哪个孩子一样。我有两个很棒的孩子，所以……
Original English I'm very proud of the economic platform that I've put out. My team and I worked very hard on it, and it's gotten some really good feedback. So it's hard to pick one idea. It's kind of like saying, tell me who your favourite child is. And I have two great kids, so.
>> 那么哪个是……
Original English >> And which one's.
>> 你最喜欢的？是啊。
Original English >> Your favourite? Yeah, yeah.
>> 我有一个女儿和一个儿子。我有一个最喜欢的女儿和一个……
Original English >> I have a daughter and a son. I have a favourite daughter and a.
>> 最喜欢的儿子。这就对了。
Original English >> Favourite son. There you go.
>> 说正经的，听着，美国关税带来了巨大的挑战。道格·福特去年提前举行选举就是为了利用这一点。我们当时以医疗为核心纲领参选，但未能奏效，对吧？核心在于经济。人们感到担忧。所以我们必须切实发展经济。我提出了一系列构想，比如成为消除省际贸易壁垒的先行者。你看，道格目前签署了许多谅解备忘录（MOU），但我们并没有看到实际效果，对吧？我们的大省失业率依然是最高的。我们的青年失业率在所有大省中也是最高的。我统计出大约有180亿加元的浪费，也就是我所说的纳税人金钱的浪费，这些钱本该用于为安大略省人民带来积极成果。因此，当我们思考如何发展经济时，我们需要投资于其他行业。我们需要投资于高等教育，因为教育政策就是经济政策；而且我们必须切实动用道格·福特搁置在一旁的资金。他设立了这个50亿加元的“保护安大略”账户。几周前在委员会会议上，我有机会向财政部长询问其中有多少资金实际拨付了出去。他低下头愣了一会儿，咕哝了几句。他说：“我不太确定答案。副部长，你有具体数字吗？”副部长说：“部长先生，其实我掌握。我们给了阿尔戈马1亿加元，另外有36家企业申请，我们给其中18家提供了资金，共计4000万加元。”也就是说，总共只发放了1.4亿加元去帮助受美国关税影响的企业。这是远远不够的，这正在伤害安大略省的人民和企业，这也是我们失业率居高不下的原因。
Original English >> So no, in all seriousness, look, US tariffs are presenting a significant challenge. Doug Ford called an election to take advantage of that last year. And we ran on health care and it didn't work right. It is about the economy. People are worried. And so we need to actually grow the economy. And I've laid out a number of ideas, things like being a first mover on removing interprovincial trade barriers. You know, right now, Doug has signed a lot of MOU, but we're not actually seeing it make a difference, right. We still have the highest unemployment rate of any of the large provinces. We've got the highest youth unemployment rate of any of the large provinces. And I've added upbout $18 billion of waste, what I'm calling waste of taxpayer money that should actually be being spent on delivering positive outcomes for the people of Ontario. And so when I think about what we need to do to grow the economy, we need to be investing in other sectors. We need to be investing in post-secondary education because education policy is economic policy, and we need to actually spend some of the money that Doug Ford has put aside. You know, he created this Protect Ontario account, $5 billion. And a couple of weeks ago in committee, I had the chance to ask the finance minister how much of that money has actually left the building. And he kind of, you know, looked down for a minute and said, oh, kind of mumbled a bit. So I'm not really sure how that answer. Deputy, do you have that answer? And the deputy said, actually, sir, I do. We gave $100 million to Algoma, and we had 36 other applicants apply. We gave 18 of them money, $40 million. So $140 million has gone out to help companies being affected by U.S. tariffs. That is not sufficient, and it is hurting the people of Ontario and hurting our businesses. And that's why we've got high unemployment.
>> 李。
Original English >> Lee
>> 我认为关税局势非常微妙，因为毫无疑问它让安大略省的家庭陷入了困境。但从另一方面来看，它也促使我们去思考可能存在哪些其他机遇，难道不是吗？作为省长，在谈判新协议时，当然必须在“加拿大团队”（Team Canada）谈判桌上占有举足轻重的席位，确保那些机会流入安大略省。我还会确保我们投资于安大略省的本省工业，发挥我们的优势。最让我触动的一点是，目前北部相对于南部所蕴藏的机遇。那里有许多新兴工业，有新的采矿开发。市镇当局正寻求建设能够吸引人才的社区。令我非常震惊的是，有的矿业公司目前竟然在从澳大利亚招募人员。我们真的需要确保培养出适应这些岗位所需的熟练劳动力，并确保我们在这些领域获得所需的生产力和增长。此外在许多边境城镇，我非常直接地体会到了这一点。有些人将需要重新接受培训，需要对人进行投资。接着我在经济计划中确立了一个目标：让安大略省进入北美前三名最吸引企业来此落户的地区。这意味着需要拥有非常高效的市镇机构和流程，吸引人们把制造业和业务的其他板块带到这里。最后，我们绝不能忽视中小型企业及其市场。他们为了供应国内市场，可能很大程度上依赖美国市场。因此，我专门为年轻人设立了一项税收抵免，以便我们能将年轻一代引入我们的小型和中型企业中。也许他们还能带来一些人工智能（AI）领域的新专业知识，并着手重塑我们的业务。
Original English so I think that the the situation with the tariffs is interesting, because there's no question it is it is making it hard for families in Ontario. But on the other side, it has challenged us, hasn't it, to think about what other opportunities there might be. And we you know, certainly as Premier, will need to have a very strong table at the table of Team Canada as new deals are being negotiated and make sure that those opportunities are coming into Ontario, I would also make sure that we're investing in Ontario industry, leaning into our strengths. One of the things that has struck me the most is the opportunity in the North at the moment versus the South. There is lots of new industry, there's new mining development. Municipalities are looking to develop communities that are going to be able to attract people. It really strikes me when you've got mining companies, they're recruiting people from Australia right now. We need to really make sure that we're developing the kind of skilled workforce that we need for those jobs, and making sure that we're getting the kind of productivity and growth that we need in those areas. Then in many of the border towns, I've experienced this very directly. Some people are going to need some retraining. There's going to be some investment investment needed in people. And then I've set out a goal in the economic plan to say, let's make Ontario top three in North America for for companies to want to come and set up here. That means actually having really efficient municipalities and processes to get people bringing their manufacturing and other aspects of their business here. Lastly, we've got to remember small and medium sized businesses and their market. They probably rely a lot on the US market to serve the domestic market. So I've done a tax credit for young people specifically so that we can bring that that younger generation into our small and medium sized businesses. And also maybe they'll bring some of the new expertise in AI and start to rethink our businesses.
>> 让我们看看事情的另一面，我想从你开始，斯蒂芬妮，因为你刚才提到你发现有180亿加元的潜在节省空间，来自与道格·福特不同的做法。秋季经济报告刚发布，这是几天前的事来着？
Original English >> Let's look at the other side of the coin, which is and I think I'll start with you because you just mentioned you see 18 billion in potential savings from things you do differently from Doug Ford. We had the fall economic statement come down. How many days ago was this?
>> 上周四。
Original English >> Now? Last Thursday.
>> 这里有点过得记不清时间了？
Original English >> Losing track.
>> 六天前。
Original English >> Of time here? Six days.
>> 总之，账面上看来要到2030年才能实现预算平衡了，这比最初预期的晚了几年。
Original English >> Anyway, the books are apparently not going to be balanced until 2030 now, which is a couple of years later than was originally anticipated.
>> 那年正好是大选年，对吧？时机真耐人寻味。
Original English >> It's an election. >> Year, isn't it? Interesting timing.
>> 你可真多疑。我很想听听你们各位的想法：如果由你们执政，将如何平衡预算？斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> You're so suspicious. I would like to hear some ideas from all of you on how the budget will be balanced. If you're in charge. >> Stephanie well.
>> 史蒂夫，作为财政事务评论员，我已经研究福特政府的预算案和秋季经济报告五年了。每一年他们都把问题往后拖延。因此我百分之百有信心预测，他们绝不可能按照最近预测的时间平衡预算。所以这需要付出大量努力。我的意思是，我们绝不能低估这届政府在财政上留下的烂摊子。同样，我花了大量时间研究这些。
Original English >> Steve, as as the finance critic, I've been looking at the Ford, Doug Ford government's budgets for five years now and their fall economic statements. And every year they have kicked the can down the road. So I am absolutely 100% confident in predicting that they will not balance the budget as in as they've laid most lately predicted. So it's going to take a lot of work. I mean, we can't we can't underestimate the mess that this government has left the finances in. And again, I spent a lot of time looking at that.
>> 那么你提到的那180亿具体包括什么？
Original English >> So what's in that 18 billion. >> That you referred to.
>> 让我们谈谈在安大略湖边建造水疗中心吧；让我们谈谈把安省科学馆搬迁的事，而我们明明拥有一个完全良好、只需要修缮的科学馆；让我们谈谈那10亿加元吧——实际上，正是我要求对为了提前一年让便利店卖啤酒而让纳税人承担的成本进行调查。如果他们多等一年，本可以为纳税人节省10亿加元，对吧？这根本算不上资金的合理使用。当然，最近还有技能发展基金（Skills Development Fund），还有职业学院（career colleges）的烂摊子。资金就这样源源不断流失。别忘了还有蓝色车牌。我的意思是，这届政府似乎连最简单、最基本的项目都无法妥善执行。所以再次强调，我们需要讨论如何对待纳税人的钱，必须当作每一块钱都至关重要。而这届政府完全不这么想。他们浪费纳税人金钱的速度，我认为比历史上任何一届政府都要快。
Original English >> So so let's talk about the building a spa on Lake Ontario. Let's talk about moving the science centre when we had a perfectly good one that just needed some repairs. Let's talk about the $1 billion. And actually, I asked for that investigation into what it costs taxpayers to get beer in corner stores a year early. If they had waited one year, they could have saved taxpayers $1 billion, right? That's not good value for money. Of course. Most recently, we've got the Skills Development fund. We've got the career colleges mess. So there is money flowing out the door. Don't forget the blue licence plates. I mean, the government seems incapable of executing even the most simple basic program. So I think again, we need to talk about how we treat taxpayer dollars. Like every dollar counts. And this government does not think like that. Right. They are they are wasting taxpayer dollars at a rate that is faster, I think, than any other government in history.
>> 迪伦，关于平衡预算。
Original English >> Dylan, balancing the books.
>> 有一件事我绝绝绝对不会做，那就是通过牺牲我们的孩子或病患的利益来平衡预算。我们必须持续投资于公立资助的教育和公立资助的医疗。而且我其实认为这其中蕴含着财务智慧，因为当你进行更明智的投资时，你就会促进经济增长，并在后续阶段实现成本节省。一个绝佳的例子就是每天10加元的托儿服务。我曾与总理同坐一张桌子，与许多其他同僚一起制定了那份预算和那个项目。那是一次彻底的团队协作。正是因为我们投入数十亿加元建立了一个托儿体系，数万个家庭有了双职工参与劳动，而不是只有单亲工作。这创造了经济增长，为这些家庭带来了收入增长，也为本省乃至全国带来了经济增长。
Original English >> So one thing I will never, ever, ever do is balance the books on the backs of our kids or on the backs of patients. We have to keep investing in publicly funded education and publicly funded health care. And I actually think there's financial wisdom in that, because when you invest more intelligently, you're going to grow the economy and you're going to realise savings downstream. A great example of that is $10 a day child care. I was at the table with the Prime Minister, building that budget, building that program with a whole bunch of other folks. It was a total team effort. But because we spent billions of dollars building a child care system, tens of thousands of families had two parents in the workforce instead of one. And that created economic growth. It created income growth for that family. It created economic growth for the province, for the country.
>> 这对赤字有什么影响？
Original English >> How does that affect the deficit?
>> 它会给你带来更多的财政收入，因为当经济增长时，那是最好的结果。每一次制定预算时——纳夫可以证明这一点，我们以前都参与过预算编制过程，我在省级和联邦层面都做过。每次预测赤字时，你唯一翘首期盼的就是经济增长，因为没有什么比经济增长带来的税收增加更能帮助平衡预算了。所以我们必须投资于政府能够控制的领域，比如公资教育和公资医疗，以一种能够促进经济增长的方式去投资。
Original English >> It gives you more revenue because when the economy is growing, that's the best thing. Every time you're building a budget. Now can attest to this. We've been in budget processes before. I've done it provincially and federally. And every time you're trying to forecast a deficit, the one thing you're crossing your fingers for is economic growth, because nothing will help balance the budget more than increased revenue as a result of economic growth. So we have to invest in the things that government can control, like publicly funded education, like publicly funded health care in a way that contributes to economic growth.
>> 纳夫。
Original English >> Nev.
>> 关键在于增长议程和就业议程。这就是改善财政状况的途径。我的意思是，目前省政府的发展步伐就停滞在0%左右，史蒂夫，他们根本没有增长。举个简单的例子：眼下当卡尼（Carney）总理在考虑贸易多元化时，这位省长是否真正专注于巩固安大略省的实力？如果是的话，正如我之前提到的，你必须投资于技能和教育。你知道为什么吗？当我带领经贸代表团出国或者去海外招商引资时，企业最终选择投资安省或加拿大，是因为我们拥有高素质的人才队伍。所以你必须在这方面加倍投入。其次，你必须投资于基础设施。因此，如果你想发展经济，就必须考虑关键的走廊通道。69号公路至今还没有实现双向四车道化（twinned）。想想看：萨德伯里（Sudbury）的矿山正在从9座增加到15座，这是多么好的发展经济的机会，释放北部的潜力，在安省本土创造部分价值。11号公路和17号公路这条东西向走廊也是一样。当我们着眼于亚洲或欧洲时，这些都是你在基础设施方面必须进行的基础投资。因此，如果你投资于技能，投资于基础设施，你就能促进经济增长。正如迪伦所说，当经济增长时，不仅会为民众创造更多机遇和就业，也会为政府带来更多税收。
Original English >> It's the the growth agenda and the jobs agenda. That's how you get to a better fiscal position. I mean, right now, the provincial government is like pottering along at 0%. They're not growing. Steve. And let's take a simple example. Right now, as Prime Minister Carney is thinking about trade diversification, is that Premier really focussed on fortifying Ontario. And if he is, as I mentioned before, you got to invest in skills and education. You know why? When I would take trade missions abroad or I would go abroad to say, invest in Canada, the companies would invest in Ontario or in Canada. Ultimately, because of our talented workforce. So you got to double down on that. Secondly, you got to invest in infrastructure. So if you want to grow the economy, you've got to think about the key corridors. Highway 69 still has not been twinned. Like, think about it. Sudbury is going from 9 to 15 mines. What a great opportunity to grow the economy, unleash the potential of the North, create some of that value here in Ontario. Same thing with highway 11 and 17, East west corridor. As we're thinking about Asia or Europe, those are the basic kind of investments you've got to make in infrastructure. So if you invest in skills, you invest in infrastructure, you grow the economy. As Dylan said, when you grow the economy, that generates more opportunities for folks, more jobs, but also more revenue for the government.
>> 我会首先对全省政府支出的每一块钱进行彻底的物有所值审计。我认为正如我的同僚所说，那里存在大量的节支机会。我立刻会做的一件事是：停止为私立机构提供同样护理支付三倍于公立机构的费用。这种做法必须停止，节省下来的资金将被重新投入到对民众的实际护理中。在我看来，在这方面的规则必须一视同仁。此外还有很多机会：我会叫停401高速公路地下隧道的计划，北部那些指望对北部公路进行投资的人们肯定乐见我们这样做。再者，经济这匹马必须拉动医疗和教育这辆大车，对吧？因此我们必须提高生产力并实现增长。我们必须对投入资金所取得的成效保持极其明确的专注。而且我们必须着眼于安大略省的关键行业：农业是一个价值530亿加元的产业，我们能否做更多事情以从该行业获得更多收益？清洁技术是安大略省本可以越来越多引领发展的领域，而现在我认为作为省政府，我们在支持这些行业方面正在落后。
Original English >> So I would start with doing a very thorough value for money audit on every dollar that's being spent across government. And I think, as my colleague has said, there are many opportunities for savings there. One thing I would do immediately is stop paying three times as much for the same care in a private environment than in a public environment. That just needs to stop and and that will be reinvested back into actual care for people. In my view, it just the rules need to be the same in that regard. But there are so many opportunities. I would stop the tunnel under the 401 and definitely the people in the north that are looking for some investment in the highways up north. They would they would be happy for us to do that. And then, you know, the the economic cart has to pull the economic horse has to pull the health care and education cart, doesn't it? And so we have to have productivity and growth. We have to have really clear focus on the outcomes we're achieving with the money that's being invested. And we have to look within a key sectors in Ontario. So agriculture of $53 billion industry, are there more that we could be doing to get from to get more from that industry, clean tech? There's an area that actually we could start to lead more and more in Ontario, and now we're falling behind, I think, as a as a provincial government and how we're supporting those industries.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> Stephanie.
>> 史蒂夫，我想补充一点。最近我们举行了基础设施大型项目峰会，卡尼先生出席了，而安大略省没有争取到一个重大项目。他们的想法是在401地下修隧道。为什么不切实推进像我政纲里提出的构想——考虑在北部修建400系列高速公路？我们在北部的卡车司机甚至找不到安全的停车休整地点；当那条公路封闭时，某些城镇就完全与外界隔绝。所以我认为我们还需要讨论：需要一个有思路懂得如何与联邦政府合作的政府和领导者，以确保我们在这个时期最大化推进国家建设。我认为像我这样拥有25年商业和金融经验的人，能够与联邦政府携手合作，探讨这些构想，并确保安大略省获得应有的份额。
Original English >> I'd like to add one thing, Steve. You know, recently we had the the summit, right. Infrastructure summit, big projects. Right. Mr. Mr. Carney Ontario didn't get one major project. Right. Their their idea was to build a tunnel under the 401. Why not actually have something like which is in my platform? Look at building a 400 series highway in the north. We've got truck drivers up there who can't stop in a you know, they don't have safe places to stop. We've got towns who are literally cut off when that highway is shut down. So I think we also need to talk about a government and a leader who has ideas about how to work with the federal government to make sure we're maximising the the nation building that we need to do at this time. And I think that, you know, someone like myself who's got 25 years of experience in business and finance can can partner with the federal government, talk about those kind of ideas and make sure that Ontario gets its fair share.
>> 迪伦。
Original English >> Dylan.
>> 幸运的是，我是本次竞选早期第一个走访北部全部12个选区的候选人。对我来说今天是第197天了。自从走访北部以来，我一直在强调：我们必须将69号、17号和11号公路双向四车道化；在我们取得实质性进展之前，我们不应该在南部进行任何重大交通基础设施投资。这听起来可能是一个雄心勃勃的目标，但我们有一个必须将国内生产总值（GDP）的5%用于国防的联邦政府。同样，我曾在那个办公室工作过，那是一个宏大的目标。我认为如果安大略省省长去敲总理的门并说“那些高速公路是战略资产”，总理会很高兴的。艾森豪威尔当年用军费修建了美国的州际公路系统，军用喷气机可以直接降落在那些公路上；而在69号、17号或11号公路上你根本做不到这一点。我知道你今年去过北部，你清楚那根本不行。所以我们需要争取那些国防资金，需要一位愿意去争取的省长，并且我们需要把北部的每一条主要公路都改建成双向四车道。
Original English >> So fortunately, I was the first candidate to visit all 12 ridings in the North early in this campaign. This is day one, 97 for me, and I have been saying ever since visiting the North, we got a twin highway 69, 17 and 11 and we shouldn't make any investments in major transportation infrastructure in the South until we make meaningful progress there. And that might sound like an ambitious target, but we have a federal government that has to spend 5% of its GDP on defence. And again, I've been in that office before. That's an audacious target. The Prime Minister, I think, would be happy if the Premier of Ontario knocked on his door and said, those highways are strategic assets. Eisenhower built the interstate system in the U.S. with military dollars, you can land a military jet on those highways. You can't do that on highway 69, 17 or 11. I know you've been up north this year. You can't. So we need to get those defence dollars. We need a Premier who's willing to ask for them, and we need to win every major highway in the North.
>> 如果允许我就国防这一点简短补充：这也是在本地制造物资的极佳机遇。我们拥有供应链，拥有技能人才，因此我们完全可以在安大略省本土承接部分国防开支的制造和合同。这样既能建设基础设施，又能利用我们拥有的制造产能。所以史蒂夫，这里充满了机遇，但你在女王公园却听不到这些，这才是令人沮丧的地方。
Original English >> If I may just very quickly on that defence. What a great opportunity to build stuff here as well. We've got the supply chains, we've got the skills here so we can build and get contracts for some of those defence spendings here in Ontario as well. So you build up the infrastructure, you take advantage of the manufacturing capacity that we have. So there's opportunities here, Steve, but you're not hearing that from Queen's Park. That's the frustrating part.
### 税收立场与税制改革 >> 减少赤字规模的一种方法是增税。这不一定是一个受欢迎的做法，但确实管用。我想知道你们四位是否愿意通过提高某些税收或设立新税种来实现这一目标？李。
Original English >> One way to help reduce the size of the deficit is to raise taxes. It's not necessarily a popular way, but it can work. And I'd like to know whether the four of you are open to raising any taxes or creating new ones. In order to do that, Lee.
>> 我致力于税制改革。这不一定意味着加税，而是改变我们在市镇和省级层面看待税收的方式。
Original English >> I've committed to tax reform. So not necessarily to a tax increase, but changing the way we think about taxes, both at the municipal level and at the provincial level.
>> 那意味着什么？
Original English >> What does that mean?
>> 这意味着，比如目前围绕HST的使用方式有很多讨论。我们知道各市镇提出了获得其中1%的要求。这是正确的方法吗？还是说我们应该探索其他创造性的方案来为市镇创造税基？是不是该考虑征收土地价值税（land value taxes）之类的东西了？所以我想探讨我们如何看待消费品税收，然后再审视这些范围更广的税收，寻找改革的机会，并确保我们进行再投资。
Original English >> Well, that means, you know, like there's been lots of discussion about how the HST is currently used. We know the municipalities have asked for 1% of it. Is that the right approach, or should we be looking at other creative options for how we're generating a tax base in municipality? Is it time for land value, taxes, things like that? So I, I, I'd like to look at how we're thinking about taxes on consumer products. And then I'd like to think about these broader taxes and look for those opportunities for reform, and then making sure that we're reinvesting.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> That Stephanie.
>> 听着，我曾两次在女王公园提出小企业减税案。政府否决了该提案，但他们最终还是听进去了，在最新的预算中加入了一项小幅减税。安大略省小企业倒闭的速度比开业的速度还要快。我们需要确保——正如我们一直讨论的——在道格·福特保守党政府执政下安大略省的经济一直停滞不前。自他们上任以来，失业率一直在上升。他们在营造强劲经济环境方面做得严重不足。因此，我们绝对不希望增税，因为那实际上会挫伤人们的积极性。我还提出了一项针对中等收入群体的减税案，因为我们正处于生活成本危机之中，对吧？人们都在苦苦挣扎。我们需要认真考虑如何以负责任的方式向民众退还更多资金，以便为人们的生活成本压力提供一些缓解。
Original English >> Know, you know, look, I've I've tabled a small business tax cut twice at Queen's Park. The government defeated it, but they did finally listen. And they put a small tax cut in this latest budget. Small businesses in Ontario are closing at a faster rate than they're opening. We need to make sure, again, as we've been talking about the economy in Ontario has been stagnant under this Doug Ford conservative government. The unemployment rate has been rising since they took office. They are not doing enough to make sure that they're creating the conditions for a strong economy here. And so we absolutely do not want to be raising taxes, because that actually disincentivize people, disincentivizes people. I've also tabled a middle income tax cut because we are in a cost of living crisis, right. And people are struggling. We need to actually be thinking about how we give give more money back in a responsible way so that people can have some relief from the cost of living pressures.
>> 有你准备提高的税种吗？
Original English >> Any taxes you'd be prepared to raise.
>> 我同意斯蒂芬妮的看法。绝不可能。我们正处于可负担性危机之中，对吧？我们知道存在管理不善，知道存在腐败，而且我们知道这届政府没有突出并聚焦于能给我们带来最大投资回报的优先事项上，那就是教育和医疗。所以再次强调，不需要开征新税。你只需要确保专注于能带来更高投资回报的正确优先事项上。发展经济，这就是行动方案。
Original English >> I agree with Stephanie. No way. We're in an affordability crisis, right? Like we know there's mismanagement, we know there's corruption, and we know this government's not highlighting on and focusing on the priorities that will get us, give us the greatest return on investment, which is education and health care. So again, no new taxes are needed. You just got to make sure you focus on the right priorities that give you a better return on investment. You grow the economy. That's the game plan.
>> 迪伦。
Original English >> Dylan.
>> 这个问题我来接招。我曾说过我想为年轻劳动者减税，我确实想这么做；而且我想为小企业减税。我没有增税的计划，但如果到了万不得已的地步，我不介意对大企业增税。我敢肯定大银行、大电信公司和大科技公司的沙发缝里总能抠出些闲钱来。如果作为全省我们必须维持收支平衡，而又不以牺牲学生和病患为代价，那我就去找他们要钱。
Original English >> I'm going to take the bait on this one. I've said that I want to cut taxes for young workers, and I do, and I want to cut taxes for small businesses. I don't have a plan to increase taxes, but if push comes to shove, I wouldn't mind increasing taxes on big businesses. I'm pretty sure the big banks and the big telcos and big tech have some spare change in the couch cushions. And if we have to make ends meet as a province without doing that on the back of students and on the back of patients, I'm going to them for money.
>> 我们这里坐着一位银行家，我想知道她对这怎么看。
Original English >> We got a banker here. I wonder what she thinks. >> Of that.
>> 听着，我认为卡尼先生在这方面再次处于引领地位，对吧？他已经开始为企业减税，因为他知道那才是真正促进经济增长的途径。那些企业创造就业岗位，对吧？在全国创造了成千上万个工作岗位。我们希望它们保持强劲，希望它们投资于新技术。你看，我们今晚还没谈到人工智能。AI正在改变我们的工作方式，对吧？它正在改变企业的招聘方式。我们需要确保营造好条件，让企业愿意留在这里并愿意在这里投资。而提高税收起不到这种作用。
Original English >> You know, look, I think Mr. Carney is again leading the way on this, right? He's already started to cut taxes for businesses because he knows that that is actually how you create growth in the economy. Those businesses create jobs, right? Thousands of jobs across the country. We want them to be strong. We want them to be investing in new technologies. You know, we haven't talked about AI yet tonight. AI is changing how we do work, right? It's changing how companies hire. And we need to make sure that we are creating the conditions so that businesses want to stay here and want to invest here. And higher taxes does not do that.
### 医疗系统危机与私有化争议 >> 我真想说，我对你们各位在有人在镜头外倒水时依然能从容作答感到非常钦佩，而且你们依然专注投入。做得很棒。我们必须谈谈医疗。我希望我这么说是有充分事实依据的：我认为从精神层面上讲，加拿大人往往为这个国家没有人会因为需要一次救命手术而失去房产感到自豪。我们拥有经受住时间考验的联邦医疗保险（Medicare）体系，但获得这一绝佳服务的难度正变得越来越大。我一直听到各种恐怖的故事，人们对我说，拥有出色的全民医保体系固然很好，但如果你无法获得服务，那意义何在？我想听听你们各位会采取什么措施，以确保安大略人能更及时、更便捷地获得医疗服务？我理应先从曾经管理过医院的女士开始。
Original English >> I did want to say how impressed I am with all of you at being able to give answers while somebody is pouring water. >> Off camera. >> And yet you're focussed and paying attention. That was well done. We got to talk health care. I think. I hope I'm on solid ground in saying this. I think spiritually, Canadians tend to be proud of the fact that nobody loses their home in this country if they need a life saving operation. We have a Medicare system that has stood the test of time, except that getting access to this wonderful system is becoming increasingly difficult. And I'm hearing horror stories all the time of people who tell me it's all well and good to have a wonderful Medicare system. But if you can't get access to services, what's the point? I want to know from all of you what you would do to ensure Ontarians get health care in a more timely and more accessible fashion. And I should start with the woman who used to run a hospital.
>> 请讲。
Original English >> So go ahead.
>> 谢谢你。是的，我提出了一个六大支柱计划来具体落实。它包含两个层面：第一，确实要有一个明确的计划，以应对我们将要面对的日益增长的护理需求，支持长者战略，帮助人们更长久地留在家里并获得所需护理；采取更具创新性、主动性的方法来防患于未然，比如将服务引入自然形成的退休社区（NORCs）。甚至对于年轻人也是如此。你看，我做出了重大承诺。自从加入这场竞选以来，我一直在谈论心理健康护理，也一直在谈论网络赌博。这些问题，尤其是对16至25岁的青少年进行早期心理健康护理投资，不仅能在当时帮助他们战胜疾病，还能帮助预防疾病的进一步恶化。
Original English >> Well thank you. And yeah, I put out a six pillar plan on how to do this. Exactly. And it and it involves two things. It's one, it's actually having a clear plan that is going to address the growing needs for demand for care that we're going to see support an older adult strategy in helping people to be at home longer and get the care they need. More innovative, proactive approaches around getting ahead of problems like bringing services into naturally occurring retirement communities. And then even for younger people. You know, I've made a big commitment. I've been talking about mental health care since I came into this race. I've been talking about online gambling since I came into this race. Those issues, investing early in mental health care, especially for adolescents, 16 to 25, we will help them in that moment with that illness, but we'll also help prevent the development of further illness.
>> 在这里面，私营部门是否有更大的作为空间？
Original English >> Is there a. >> Greater role for the private sector in any of this?
>> 我认为在现阶段，我从民众那里听到的心声是，他们希望由一个公立资助的体系来提供服务。我们必须确保能够达到我们需要的结果。在某种程度上，我们今天拥有公私结合的模式。我绝不能容忍的是政府目前的做法——在私立环境下为相同的护理支付三倍于公立环境的费用，向护理中介机构支付天价中介费，这简直是在敲诈勒索，他们在敲诈北部的医院。
Original English >> I think that at this stage, what I've heard from people is that they are looking for a publicly funded system to be able to deliver. We need to make sure that we can get to the outcomes that we need. We have a mix today, to some degree, a private and public. What I will not tolerate is the government, what they're currently doing, paying three times as much for the same care in a private environment than in a public paying nursing agencies like gouging. They're gouging hospitals in the North.
>> 你的批评者会说你这是在把苹果和橘子作不恰当类比。
Original English >> Your critics say. >> You're comparing apples and oranges there.
>> 我认为这些问题必须加以遏制。其次，我们还必须承认，在这届政府领导下基层医疗的获取途径大幅滑坡。我们正在引入基于团队的模式。他们已经开始这么做了。我会在安大略省妥善完成这项工作，重塑稳健的基层医疗。
Original English >> Well, I think that these you know, these issues need to be reined in. And then secondly, we need to also say, acknowledge the fact that access to primary care fell off under this government. We're introducing team based models. They've started doing that. I would finish the job on that properly in Ontario and get back to having robust primary care as well.
>> 我们如何才能让更多安省居民及时获得更多服务？
Original English >> How do we get more access to more services for more Ontarians in a timely fashion?
>> 首先，你必须坚信公立资助的医疗体系。它必须是全民覆盖的，必须是可靠的；正如你所说，必须是公立的。我可以给你举一个给我留下深刻印象的小例子，这也是我投身其中的原因之一：沃克顿（Walkerton）的那个故事，当一位家庭医生来到镇上时，人们从凌晨两点就开始排队，人们想尽一切办法只为了能看上家庭医生。一位女士接受采访时说“这就像中了彩票一样”。这不应该是一个系统应有的运转方式。所以对我来说，仅以家庭医生为例：增加更多医学院名额，为国际培训的医疗专业人士提供更多住院医师实习名额。
Original English >> Well, first of all, you got to believe in a publicly funded health care system. It's got to be universal. It's got to be reliable. As you said, it's got to be public. I'll give you one small example that really stood out for me in. One of the reasons I got involved is that story in Walkerton, where people were lining up since 2 a.m. when a family doctor arrived in town and people were just like, doing anything they possibly could to get access to a family physician. And one lady, when she was asked, she's like, it's like winning the lottery. That's not the way the system should be. So for me, for example, just take that example on family physicians, more medical spots, more residency positions for internationally trained health care professionals.
>> 这意味着政府需要增加支出。
Original English >> This means more spending by government.
>> 当然，史蒂夫，在人均患者支出方面，与其他任何辖区相比我们都处于垫底水平。正如李刚才极其贴切指出的，我们必须确保那些现存的私立护理方案不应该成为整体方案的一部分；我们需要在医疗体系中建立资金充足的护士队伍。你知道，70%的医院都在亏损运营，因此它们不得不进行大幅裁员。你非常了解汉密尔顿（Hamilton），对吧？由于这些赤字，那里的医院最近刚刚裁减了400人。这会导致什么后果？它会拉长等待时间，阻碍就医。所以你必须给医院提供充足的资金。而且你必须确保人们能够看上家庭医生。正如我提到的，甚至要充分利用那些来到这里的训练有素的国际专业人士，因为有相当多的医生即将退休。如果你认为我们现在就医难，那等上5到10年看看。
Original English >> Of course, we're at the bottom of the pack, Steve, compared to any other jurisdiction on a per patient basis. Right. And as as Lee said so eloquently, we got to make sure that the private nursing solutions that exist, that shouldn't be part of the game plan, we need to have properly funded, properly funded nurse capacity in our health care system. You know, 70% of the hospitals run on deficits. So they've got to make significant cuts. You know, Hamilton very well, right? 400 people were cut in that hospital just recently because of these deficits. So what does that do that increases wait time. That impedes access. So you've got to properly fund hospitals. And you got to make sure people have access to family physicians. As I mentioned, even take advantage of those highly trained international professionals that are coming here because there are a number of doctors that are going to retire soon. If you think we have access issues now, wait for the next 5 to 10 years.
>> 在你的设想中，医疗领域还有让私营部门进一步参与的空间吗？
Original English >> Is there room in your scenario for more private sector involvement in health care?
>> 就我看来没有。我认为我们在公立体系内部就有工具来解决这个问题。史蒂夫，让我感到困扰的是这种故意少拨款和把系统管砸、从而为私营部门创造机会的思路。这就是道格·福特正在做的事。只要看看他的捐赠者名单，你就会明白他是如何在包括医疗在内的各个领域制定政策的。我绝不会那么做。
Original English >> Not that I can see of. I think we've got the tools to do it in the public system. What bothers me, Steve, is this notion of deliberately underfunded and mismanaged the system to create solutions for the for the private sector. That's what Doug Ford is doing. Just look at his donor list and you'll see how he develops policy across the board, including health care. I wouldn't do.
>> 迪伦。
Original English >> That, Dylan.
>> 福特在这件事上完全是不着边际，因为他以为解决“走廊医疗”的办法就是建更多的走廊、建更多的医院。那家伙热衷于剪彩，但这根本不是减轻系统压力的方法。我们减轻系统压力的办法是建设社区医疗、建设居家护理、建设心理健康护理，即医院之外的医疗体系组成部分。你知道我们该怎么做吗？我们在那些领域壮大劳动力队伍，按照他们的价值给予合理报酬。我们按注册实用护士（RPN）的实际价值向他们支付报酬；我们按文员、厨房员工、保洁员工的实际价值向他们支付报酬，提供更好的福利待遇和更高的工作稳定性。在我的政纲中，我呼吁全省RPN的全民最低时薪定为35加元，全省个人支援工人（PSW）的全民最低时薪定为25加元。这就是我们必须做的事情。顺便说一句，这些数字不是我凭空捏造的，我是从服务业雇员国际工会（SEIU）那里引用的。
Original English >> So Ford is out to lunch on this because he thinks the solution to hallway medicine is to build more hallways, to build more hospitals. The guy loves cutting ribbons, but that's not how we reduce pressure on the system. We reduce pressure on the system by building up community care, building up home care, building up mental health care, the parts of the health care System outside the hospital. And you know how we do that. We grow our workforce in those areas. We pay for what they're worth. We pay rpns what they're what they're worth. We pay clerical staff, kitchen staff, custodial staff, what they're worth, better benefits, more job security, better. In my platform, I've called for a minimum universal minimum wage for Rpns of $35 across the province and a minimum universal minimum wage of $25 for PSW across the province. That's the kind of stuff we have to do. And by the way, I didn't pick those numbers out of air. I picked those numbers from SEIU. What I've learned.
>> 来自工会。
Original English >> From our union.
>> 是的。我在制定政策过程中学到的是：必须与系统第一线的人员交谈，了解需求在哪里、机遇在哪里，以及你如何能成为他们的后盾。显而易见，道格·福特并没有这么做。但作为我们党的党领、本省的省长，我会这么做。
Original English >> Yes. What I've learned from policy making is they have to talk to folks on the front lines of the system to understand where the needs are, where the opportunities are, how you can have their back. And clearly, Doug Ford's not doing that. But as leader of our party, Premier of our province, I would be doing that.
>> 在你的体系中有私营部门参与的空间吗？
Original English >> Room for private involvement in your system?
>> 没有。
Original English >> No.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> Stephanie
>> 史蒂夫，我所了解的是：解决医疗危机绝非易事。这届政府让问题变得更加严重。124号法案把护士们赶出了这个行业。当然，他们随后不得不把护士请回来，而他们是通过私营护理中介机构把人请回来的，这让纳税人花费了10亿加元——如果在公立系统中按应有的标准给他们薪酬并尊重他们，花费只有这支出的三分之一。我已故的弟弟曾是一名麻醉科医生，他生前常讲一个故事：在手术室里，一台手术结束了，他说：“好了，请推进下一位病人。”对方却说：“对不起，鲍曼医生，没有保洁人员来打扫地面。”他就说：“给我一把拖把，我自己来拖地。”我们需要确保我们是在与保洁员对话，在与护士、与注册实用护士、医生、行政管理人员对话。因为这些问题极其复杂。但解决办法是存在的。围绕各项承诺，我提出了一个47点计划，因为只要我们携手合作，我们就能够做到；同时还要再次削减浪费——我还要再谈谈这一点。安大略省将其医疗预算中最高比例的资金花在了行政管理上。在凯瑟琳·韦恩（Kathleen Wynne）执政时期情况就很糟糕，而在道格·福特手下变得更糟。所以我们必须着手解决这些问题，明智地使用纳税人的钱，为患者带来更好的成果。
Original English Steve, here's what I know. Solving the health care crisis is not going to be easy. This government has made the problems worse. Bill 124 drove nurses out of the profession. Of course, they then had. They had to bring them. Back and they brought them back through private nursing agencies, which cost taxpayers $1 billion, three times as much as if they'd actually paid them, respected them in in the public system and let them be there. My late brother was an anaesthetist, and he would tell a story of being in the O.R. and a procedure would be wrapped up and he'd say, okay, please bring in the next patient. And they would say, I'm sorry, Doctor Bowman. There's no janitor to clean the floor. He would say, give me a mop. I will clean the floor myself. We need to make sure we are talking to janitors. We are talking to nurses. We are talking to rpns doctors, administrators. Because these problems are complex. But there are solutions. I've put forward a 47 point plan around commitments because we can do this if we if we work together on it, and also to cut the waste again, I'm going to talk about that. You know, Ontario spends the highest percentage of its health care budget on administration. It was bad under Kathleen Wynne, and it's gotten worse under Doug Ford. So we need to make sure we're getting at those things and spending taxpayer dollars wisely to deliver better outcomes for patients.
>> 在你的体系中有更多私营部门参与的空间吗？
Original English >> Is there room for more private sector involvement in your system?
>> 是的，听着，我们已经有私营部门了。正如李所说，我们已经有私营机构参与了。医生们经常对我说：“你看，政府把我当成一家企业来对待，所以我也只能按我的产出来计费。”所以我认为我们不希望有更多的私营化，我们希望确保公立系统运转顺畅。我们知道像阿尔伯塔省正在走的道路将会面临挑战，对吧？这些平行的双轨道路正在对医生和护士造成更多需求争夺，把他们拉向不同的方向，而这将导致更长的轮候名单。
Original English >> Yeah. Look, we've already got private sectors. As Lee said, we've already got private involvement. Doctors often will say to me, look, the government treats me like I'm a business, you know, so I'm going to have to bill for what I produce. So I think we we do not want more private. We want to make sure the public system is operating. We know that things like Alberta, the path that they're going down, it's it's going to be a challenge, right? These parallel paths are, are creating more demands for doctors and nurses and pulling them in different directions. And that will create longer waitlists.
>> 好的，让我检查一下时间进度。我们大概还剩不到15分钟左右。好的，所以……
Original English >> Okay, let me just do a check on how are we doing on time here. I've got about like just under 15 minutes to go something like that. Okay, so.
>> 如果可以的话，我想再做最后一点陈述：在我的计划中，我承诺我们将通过立法强制要求制定一项长期规划，因为我认为人们已经厌倦了看到自己的就医机会随着政治周期的变动而改变。在过去的27年里我对此深有体会，尤其是在过去的八年里。我认为我们需要建立一些保护机制，确保你的医疗服务不会每隔四年就随政治兴致而陷入风险。
Original English >> We make one last comment if it's okay, which is in my plan, I have committed that we would pass legislation that would require a longer term plan, because I think people are tired of seeing their access to health care change depending on a political cycle. I certainly saw it over my 27 years, and especially in these last eight years. And I think that we need to put some protections in place that make sure that your health care is in at risk at the political whims every four years.
### 住房短缺与无家可归治理 >> 好的。我想进入住房话题。我们在网上征集过问题：“你们想问候选人什么问题？”网友们提交了许多。所以我们现在先谈谈住房，然后再回答他们的问题。本省政府曾定下到2031年建造150万套房屋的目标。他们已经承认无法达成这一目标。我想知道：A，你们认为这是个正确的目标吗？B，它具有可行性吗？C，你们会如何落实？纳夫迪普。
Original English >> Okay. I want to get to housing. And then we went online and we asked people, you know, what questions do you want to ask the candidates? And they put in a bunch. So let's do a bit on housing right now. And then I want to get to their questions as well. This provincial government has set a target of 1,000,005 homes to be built by the year 2031. They've acknowledged they're not going to hit that target. I want to know if a you think that's the right target to hit, and B, if it's doable, and see how you do it. Okay.
>> 嗯，我忍不住发笑，因为他们当初提出150万只是为了抢个漂亮的头条。正如迪伦所说，你剪彩、你庆祝，但接着就得去落实工作。他们根本不干实事。他们对住房土地用途法律修改了26次。如果你是一家市镇建筑部门，你完全摸不清到底是怎么回事。他们一直在随意挪动标尺。所以我认为需要指出的非常重要的一点是，他们的计划根本没有奏效。
Original English >> Navdeep. Well, I was chuckling because they said 1.5 million to get the nice headline. As Dylan says, you cut the ribbon, you do the celebrations. But then they got to do the work. They don't do the work. They've made 26 changes to the housing land usage laws. So if you're a municipality in a building, you're trying to figure out what the heck is going on. They keep on moving the yardstick. So I think one very important thing to note is that their plan has not worked.
>> 你认为我们能达到那个目标吗？
Original English >> Do you think we can get there?
>> 达到什么？按我们现有的时间表，按他们搭设这套架构的方式，大概率是不可能的，因为去年新开工住宅只有65,000套。史蒂夫，我们在这一步上已经处于极其不利的劣势了。与其他辖区相比，在城市中心建设方面我们又处于垫底水平。
Original English >> Oh, to what? The timeline that we have right now, the way they've set up things. Probably not because 65,000 home starts last year. Like we're already behind the eight ball here, Steve. And compared to other jurisdictions, again we're at the bottom of the pack when it comes to urban centres.
>> 你想怎么做？
Original English >> What do you want to do.
>> 所以我再次强调，目前的体系、目前的道路是行不通的。史蒂夫，你必须提供一些可预期性。可预期性意味着不要随意变更规则，并为各市镇提供适当的资金支持，以确保我们能够释放房屋供应。因为规划许可批准了，但你必须把它建出来。一旦你为市镇提供了他们需要的工具——因为他们已经承受了大量的权力下放责任，面临着巨大压力，我们在市镇选举中也看到了这一点。因此，如果在所需基础设施方面拥有可预期的十年期资金支持，那么他们——不是市镇本身，而是建筑商——就能够把房子建起来。经济账是摆在那里的，但你必须提供这种可预测的资金。
Original English >> So again I'm just highlighting the fact that the system right now the path right now is not working. So you've got to provide some predictability, Steve. And predictability means don't change the rules and provide proper funding for municipalities to make sure that we can unleash that supply of housing. Because housing is approved, but you've got to get it built. So once you provide the municipalities with the tools that they need, because there's already been a lot of downloading, they're dealing with a lot of pressure. We saw that through the municipal campaigns as well. So if they have that predictable ten year funding when it comes to the infrastructure that's required, then they're able to, again, build those homes, not the municipalities, but the builders. I'm talking about. Right. The economics are there, but you just got to provide that predictable funding.
>> 迪伦。
Original English >> Dylan.
>> 在住房问题上，我们对我这一代人必须展现出雄心壮志，否则我这一代人承受的就是一次又一次沉重的打击。走出大衰退时我们努力打拼职业生涯，好不容易站稳脚跟又遇到了新冠疫情。而现在我们面临着一场可负担性危机，不仅是住房，还包括食品杂货、汽油以及所有开销。我们渴望拥有人生的第一套住房，但如果我们不增加房屋供应，就绝不可能实现。我认为实现这一目标的方法，是增强实际处于这场危机第一线的政府的财政能力，那就是市镇政府。我之前谈到的将HST让出1个百分点，那是每年各市镇省下的50亿到60亿加元，他们不必为促成房屋建设所需的基础设施四处筹资。这不仅仅是批准一张许可证那么简单。如果你没有污水处理系统，没有道路，没有社区中心，你就建不起那些住房。因此，永久性地向市镇——所有市镇——让渡1个百分点的HST，将在这个领域带来巨大改观。
Original English >> We do need to be ambitious on housing for my generation or my generation is gut punch after gut punch after gut punch. We were trying to build careers coming out of the Great Recession, and then we finally found our footing and we faced Covid. And now we're facing an affordability crisis, not just on housing, but on groceries, on gas, on everything. We want that first home, but we're not going to get it if we do not increase the supply of housing the way we're going to do it, I think, is by increasing the fiscal capacity of the government. That's actually on the front lines of this crisis, and that's the municipal government. That one point of the HST I talked about before, that's 5 to $6 billion every year that municipalities don't have to invest in the infrastructure that enables housing construction. It's not as simple as approving a permit. If you don't have the wastewater system, if you don't have the roads, if you don't have the community centres, then you can't build that housing. So a permanent commitment of one point of the HST to municipalities, all municipalities is going to make a big difference on this file.
>> 在让斯蒂芬妮和李作答之前，耳机里有人提醒我，你们两位比那两位多用了不少时间。所以在回答这个问题的时间控制上，我对你们会稍微严格一点。
Original English >> Before I get Stephanie and Lee to respond to this, I'm told in my ear that you two have spent more time than these two. And so I'm going to be a little tougher on your answers in terms of how much time to give you to answer this question.
>> 好的。首先，道格·福特在住房问题上是彻底失败的。加拿大银行的基准利率在全国都是相同的，对吧？然而阿尔伯塔、卑诗省和魁北克的建房速度比安省快了一点五倍到两倍。因此，这纯粹是本届政府的政策失败。
Original English >> Okay. So first of all, Doug Ford has failed on housing. The Bank of Canada rate is the same across the country, right. And yet Alberta, B.C. and Quebec are building homes at a rate of one and a half to two times faster than Ontarians. So it is a fail then Ontario. So it is a failure of policy of this government.
>> 那么你会怎么做？
Original English >> So what would. >> You do?
>> 史蒂夫，我对此同样有一套完整的方案。比如确保在建筑商建造可负担住房时减免开发费用；在符合市镇规章记录限制的前提下，将四联排住宅（Fourplexes）确立为法定权利；并确保采取创新做法，比如对垃圾填埋场——不是填埋场，是棕地地块（brownfield plots）进行清理，并为开发商提供建设激励。
Original English >> I've got, again, a full plan on it, Steve. Things like making sure that we waive development charges when builders are doing things like building affordable homes, putting Fourplexes as of right, if they're done within the confines of, of what's what's on the records on the municipal bylaws and making sure that we are actually doing an innovative things like taking landfill or not landfill. Brown brownfield plots and cleaning them up and giving incentives to developers.
>> 在此基础上进行建设。李，你的看法？
Original English >> To build to that. Lee, your view?
>> 在我的住房和无家可归方案中，我把两者结合在一起，因为我认为这两者密切相关。我承诺每年建设15万套房屋，其中一部分原因在于这个数字应该是可行的，正如大家所指出的，现届政府无法企及，但很多专家表示这正是我们必须达到的目标。我会确保稳定各项规则，因为正如我承诺的，我们将在省级层面设定某些开发参数，然后保持稳定长达五年之久，以便开发商和市镇确切知道该作何预期。我确实会做出一些承诺，而这也是与无家可归问题的关联所在：我们需要省政府围绕可负担住房、深度可负担住房以及支持性住房的配比确立明确的预期；我们还需要省政府与联邦政府围绕其中某些目标共同参与，尤其是……
Original English >> So in my housing and homelessness plan, I combine the two because I see these things as quite connected. I have committed to 150,000 homes a year, and part of that is that that number should be doable to everybody's point, that government is not hitting it. But a lot of experts said that is actually what we need to be hitting. I would make sure that we're stabilising the rules because I think that so I've made a commitment that we'll set some of the parameters for development at the provincial level, and then we'll hold steady for a period of up to five years. So that actually the developers and the municipalities know what to expect. I do think that I would make some commitments, and this is the connection on homelessness as well. We need to have the provincial government setting some expectations around the mix of housing around affordable, deeply affordable and supportive. And we need the provincial government also to participate with the federal government around some of those targets, especially.
>> 我得打断你一下，因为我得尽量……
Original English >> On hold you there, because I've got to try.
>> 保持……
Original English >> And keep this more.
>> 我得尽量保持这里的发言时间均等。我想顺着无家可归的问题继续，因为有一位名叫罗伯特·里德（Robert Reid）的观众在Facebook上给我发了这个问题。他说他认为无家可归和帐篷营地是安大略省的头号问题。他觉得这令人极度不安且难以接受。我想了解你们四位党领候选人对日益严重的无家可归现象会做些什么？我们看到人们住在帐篷里，我的意思是，现在的帐篷营地比我有生以来见过的任何时候都要多，而我一生都住在这里。纳夫，你会怎么说？
Original English >> I've got to try and keep the time even here. I am going to pick up on the homelessness issue because we had a viewer named Robert Reid who sent me this question on Facebook. He said he felt homelessness and the encampments were the number one issue in Ontario. He finds it very disturbing and offensive. I'd like to know what you for leadership candidates would do about the amount of homelessness. We see people living in tents. There's just I mean, there's more of it now than I can ever recall. And I've lived here my whole life. Now, what would you say?
>> 我同意，这确实令人心碎。无论我走访哪个城镇，关于成瘾和无家可归的情况都是一样的，而且情况越来越糟，越来越糟。
Original English >> I agree, it's devastating. No matter what town I visited, it's the same story around addiction and homelessness, and it's getting worse and it's getting worse.
>> 真的很严重。你会怎么做？
Original English >> Really bad. What would.
>> 所以我想说，首先你必须拥有合适的过渡性住房。我在桑德贝（Thunder Bay）看到了一些行之有效的模式。你必须确保人们真正拥有住房的能力，并保持数年的稳定性。其次，你必须拥有协调完善的全方位配套支持服务。市镇当局根本没有这个承受能力。我们必须将其中部分服务收归省级统筹，确保我们能妥善处理成瘾问题并为这些人提供支持。
Original English >> You do? So I would say, first of all, you got to have proper transitional housing. I've seen some models in Thunder Bay that are going to work. You got to make sure people actually have the ability to have a home and have that stability for a number of years. Then you've got to have proper coordinated wraparound services. The municipalities just don't have the capacity. We've got to upload some of those services to make sure we can deal with addiction and supports for these folks.
>> 好的，这是一个开端。迪伦，你有什么补充？
Original English >> Okay, that's a start. Dylan, what would you add?
>> 首先，你必须从源头着手。我们必须认识到心理健康就是身体健康，我们需要将全面的医疗服务纳入安省健康保险计划（OHIP），不是针对特定年龄段，不是针对特定收入群体，而是面向所有人。这将带来诸多益处，同时也将有助于解决无家可归危机。此外，我们还必须解决由道格·福特一手造成的成瘾文化。正如我所说，这家伙的主要政绩遗产就是网络赌博以及在便利店卖啤酒。这没有向社区传递正确的信息，也没有向家庭传递正确的信息。因此我们必须解决成瘾危机。而在住房问题上……
Original English >> First, you got to move upstream. We got to Recognize that mental health is health, and we need comprehensive health care as part of OHIP, not for particular age group, not for particular income category for everyone. That's going to have a lot of benefits, but it's also going to help. On the homelessness crisis. We also have to tackle the culture of addiction created by Doug Ford. Like I said, this guy's primary legacy is online gambling and beer and corner stores. That's not sending the right message to communities. That's not sending the right message to families. So we have to tackle the addiction crisis. And on.
>> 我得打断一下。你真觉得可以理直气壮地说“道格·福特在安大略省造成了成瘾文化”？
Original English >> Housing, I'm going to jump in there. You feel you feel comfortable saying, Doug Ford has created a culture of addiction in the province of Ontario?
>> 绝对可以，千真万确。正如我所说，他就是“罪恶之城”的市长，我们必须痛斥其道德沦丧。他的政策遗产对本省的年轻家庭、年轻劳动者以及更广泛的社区来说都是一种耻辱。这正是我们必须追究他责任的地方。
Original English >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Like I said, he's the mayor of Sin City, and we have to call out his moral bankruptcy, his policy legacies are a disgrace for young families and young workers in this province and for communities more broadly. That's what we have to hold them to account for.
>> 无家可归者帐篷营地的问题，我们该怎么办？
Original English >> The homeless encampments. What do we do?
>> 我的意思是，我今年共同发起提出了一项法案，叫做《以住房终结无家可归法案》（Homelessness Ends with Housing Act）。法案明确指出，我们需要一个有清晰承诺的计划来终结本省的无家可归现象。我们需要采取已知行之有效的方法，借鉴其他国家，看看多伦多邓恩大楼（Dunn House）的范例——在那里我们进行了实际测算，对经常出入急诊室的人群开具“住房处方”，配以他们所需的正确支持，扶助他们走出困境。但让我震惊的是，在444个市镇中的427个里，随着无家可归人数上升，增长最快的人群竟然是老年人。所以我们需要研究为什么老年人正在失去住房，而租房市场已经失衡，许多地区的空置率极低。我们必须重新评估这一点，并确保对房东与租客委员会（Landlord and Tenant Board）进行改革。
Original English >> Well, I mean, I tabled a bill a co-sponsored a bill this year called the Homelessness Ends with Housing Act. And it really says we need a plan to end homelessness in the province with a clear commitment. We need to approach it in ways that we know work, look to other countries, look at the example of done House here in Toronto, where we've actually measured, saying, okay, people frequently coming into emergency departments, let's actually prescribe housing, let's prescribe the right kinds of supports that they need and get and lift people up. But then the thing that is striking to me, of those 427 of 444 municipalities, as we've seen, the numbers increase, the largest growing number are seniors. So we need to start looking at why are seniors losing their housing and the rental market is off kilter. Vacancy rates are very low in many areas. We've got to reassess that and make sure that we're improving things. At the Landlord Tenant Board as well.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> Stephanie
>> 道格·福特走在街上时在我看来就像戴着眼罩一样。好吧，无论他在哪里走动，他肯定没在渥太华走动过。我觉得他甚至不知道渥太华在哪里，而我们知道渥太华面临着严重的无家可归危机，而且这种情况在全省各地普遍存在。但解决方案是有的，对吧？微型住宅（Tiny homes）——圣托马斯（Saint Thomas）建造了微型住宅，彼得伯勒（Peterborough）也正在建造微型住宅。我们还需要承诺提供24小时社区支持照护。我在精神病专科医院工作过两个夏天。需要治疗的人必须有一个可以去接受治疗的地方，而这届政府在这一点上辜负了他们。
Original English Doug Ford looks to me like he's got blinders on when he walks down the streets. Well, wherever he's walking, he's certainly not walking in Ottawa. I don't think he knows where it is in Ottawa. We know has a significant homelessness crisis, but it is everywhere in our province. But there are solutions, right? Tiny homes Saint Thomas has built tiny homes. Peterborough is building tiny homes. We also need to commit to 24 hour community based care. You know, I worked in a psychiatric hospital for two summers. People who need treatment need to have a place to go where they can get that treatment. And this government has let them down on that.
### 观众问答、执政遗产与闭幕 >> 有位名叫约翰·莱昂纳德（John Leonard）的人经常在Facebook上给我发信息，他是一名保守党人，我想这样描述他是很公允的。他的问题是：“你们是否认为将安大略省的支出削减1%是明智审慎的？”这就是他的问题。谢尔顿，能给我切个全景镜头吗？大家举手表决一下：谁认为安大略省的支出可以削减1%？1%？
Original English >> There's a guy named John Leonard who messages me all the time on Facebook, and he is he's a conservative. I think he would be fair to describe him that way. And his question is, do you believe it would be prudent to reduce Ontario's spending by 1%? That's the question. Can I get a wide shot, Sheldon? Show of hands here. Who believes that Ontario spending could be reduced 1%? 1%?
>> 哦，你是说整体……
Original English >> Oh, you mean the.
>> 整体支出，再问一次：你能把整体支出削减1%吗？这会是明智审慎的做法吗？
Original English >> Overall spending again, could you reduce overall spending by 1%? Would that be a prudent thing to do?
>> 当然，当然。这样做是明智审慎的。
Original English >> Absolutely, absolutely. That's prudent to do.
>> 约翰，你在这边得到了一个赞成的回答。还有其他人吗？
Original English >> John, you got a yes over here. Anybody else?
>> 我认为在我们揭开福特财政惨状的盖子之前……
Original English >> I think until we lift the hood. On Ford's fiscal fiasco we.
>> 我们无法知晓。
Original English >> Don't know.
>> 斯蒂芬妮谈到了那180亿。其中一部分是你将它重新分配到我和其他人强调的教育和医疗等优先事项上。但我绝不会在安大略广场上砸22亿，然后给水疗中心拨2亿，再花5亿做那些自我宣传的政治广告。节支就是从这些地方来的，那些加起来数字增长得非常快。
Original English >> It's definitely talked about the 18 billion. I mean, part of it is you reallocate it to the priorities I've highlighted and others have around education and health. But I wouldn't spend 200 or 2.2 billion on, on, on the Ontario place and then 200 million for the Spa and the $500 million for those self-promotional political ads. That's where the savings would come from. If that adds up pretty fast.
>> 是的，我认为现实是那很可能意味着削减公共服务。因此我会礼貌地反问约翰：他希望削减公共服务吗？如果我们能找到那些浪费，那我绝对赞成削减开支；但如果找不到，我们在公共服务上必须慎之又慎。
Original English >> Yeah. I mean, I think the reality is that would likely mean cuts to services. So what I would respectfully ask John is, does he want cuts to services? If we can find that waste, then absolutely. I'll cut I'll cut spending. But if not, we need to be careful about services.
>> 李。
Original English >> Lee
>> 是的，我认为他提这个要求实际上是想促使我们去平衡预算，对吧？因此我认为我们在这一问题上的回答必须进行极为细致的审查。但在我看来，在人们面临失业的时期，我们必须牢记：对人们的医疗、心理健康和教育的投资，实际上也是对经济繁荣的投资。所以必须审时度势，谨慎选择削减大量公共服务的时机。
Original English yeah, I mean, I was thinking that he's trying to get us to balance the budget actually with that request. Right. And so I do think that our, our answers on that and having a really close look. And then, and then, but from my perspective, at a time when you've got, you know, people are losing jobs, we have to remember that investment in, in people's health care, their mental health care in education is actually also investment in economic prosperity. So I think you got to pick the moment for when you're reducing a lot of service.
>> 距离结束只有几分钟了。达尼洛·兹德拉维奇（Danilo Zdravic）——希望我念对了你的名字——提问：你们最钦佩哪位前省长？好吧，这问题有点不按常理出牌。
Original English >> Just a few minutes here before we get to the end of things. And Danilo Zdravic, I hope I said your name correctly, which former premier do you admire the most? Okay, that's a bit of an off beat question.
>> 确实是个不按常理出牌的问题。
Original English >> It is an off beat question.
>> 迪伦，我先问你，因为这对你来说真是一个难题。
Original English >> Now this is okay, Dylan, I'm going for you first because this is a real hard one for. >> You, Dylan.
>> 让我抢先一步说吧：我能说是道尔顿·麦坚迪（Dalton McGuinty）吗？我来告诉你为什么：因为对我来说教育至关重要，史蒂夫。我成长过程中的每一个机遇都归功于我们的公立教育体系。我的女儿们显然也是在公立学校就读。我参选的主要原因之一，就是我无法容忍道格·福特在剔除通胀因素后实质上削减了教育经费的事实。
Original English >> Let me beat him to the punch. Can I say Dalton McGuinty? I'll tell you why. Because for me, education matters so much, Steve. Every opportunity that I've had growing up is because of our publicly funded education system. My girls are obviously went through the public system as well. And one of the primary reasons that I'm running is because I cannot stand the fact that Doug Ford has cut funding for education adjusted for inflation.
>> 所以道尔顿·麦坚迪是你的答案。
Original English >> So Dalton McGuinty is. >> Your answer.
>> 如果你想讨论一个致力于教育的人，那是多么伟大的政治遗产。
Original English >> I mean, you want to talk about a guy who's committed to education. What a legacy.
>> 是的，他抢了我的答案。不过还是抢先了你一步。
Original English >> Yes, he stole my answer. Still beat you to the punch.
>> 是的，首要原因是教育。但我想说的是他身上的无畏精神。更广泛地说，那个人在没人认为可能的情况下关闭了安大略省的煤电厂。煤电曾经占我们能源系统的25%，顺便说一句，就像现在天然气的占比一样，当时没一个人认为道尔顿能做到，但他做到了。那是当时北美地区最大的温室气体减排行动。他把我们从全国医疗等待时间最差的省份带到了最好、最短的水平。在他和凯瑟琳任内创造了100万个就业机会。那是我们可以引以为豪的政治遗产。
Original English >> And yes, because. >> Of education, first and foremost. But I will say it was because of a fearlessness. More broadly, that guy shut down coal in Ontario when no one thought that was possible. It was 25% of our energy system just like us. Natural gas is right now, by the way, and no one said Dalton could do it. He did it. It was the largest GHG reduction effort in North America at the time. He brought us from worst on health care wait times to first or best on health care, wait times in the country. He created a million jobs between him and Kathleen. That's a legacy we can be proud of.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> Stephanie
>> 是的，我认为道尔顿和凯瑟琳都理应获得高度赞扬。但其实我想提的是戴维·彼得森（David Peterson）。我们在几十年前庆祝过他组建自由党政府的辉煌时刻，我想大概……
Original English yeah, look, I think Dalton and Kathleen both deserve good, deserve strong, strong votes there. But I would actually talk about David Peterson. You know, he we just celebrated, you know, when he formed a Liberal government many years ago for decades, I think.
>> 没错，41年前，40……
Original English >> Right. 41 years, 40.
>> 是的，去年我们在自由党党内朋友中举办了盛大的庆祝活动，我认为那是非常值得庆祝的成就。
Original English >> Yeah, yeah. So last year we had a big celebration amongst our Liberal Party friends. And I think that was something worth celebrating.
>> 就是他终结了进步保守党长达42年的统治。
Original English >> He's the guy who ended the 42 year long Progressive Conservative.
>> 王朝统治，确实如此。李。
Original English >> Dynasty reign for sure. Lee.
>> 是的，了解彼得森时期的历史确实让我备受鼓舞，在这次竞选中我也花时间与默里·埃尔斯顿（Murray Elston）等人交谈，深入学习了他们当年在医疗领域采取的大胆举措。但出于尊重的角度，我必须说明：我们不能忽视凯瑟琳·韦恩是本省首位女性省长的事实，能做到那一点我认为是一个极其重要的历史时刻。在这次竞选中能获得她的支持和背书，我感到非常感激。我不认为我们的政策会完全一模一样，但她经历过那个职位，深知做好那份工作需要付出什么，能获得那种支持对我而言意义非凡。任何开风气之先的人总能给我带来启发，而她毫无疑问是本省的首位女性省长。
Original English >> Yeah, I certainly found it very inspiring to learn about those Peterson days and have spent time talking with people like Murray Elston in this race, and really learning more about the bold moves they made on health care. In that time. I do. I do need to say, though, from a respect perspective, like we cannot ignore that Kathleen Wynne was the first woman premier, and to do that, I think, was a really important moment. I feel grateful to have her support and endorsement in this campaign. I don't think our policy will be exactly the same, but she's done the job. She knows what it takes to do the job and to have that kind of support means an awful lot to me, and I've always inspired by anyone that does things first. But she's certainly our first woman premier in this province.
>> 离辩论结束还有两分钟，我还有时间问最后一个问题。我需要你们每人用20秒回答。
Original English >> We are two minutes away from concluding, and I have time for one last question, and I'm going to need 22nd answers from each of. >> You.
>> 从在座其他人那里挑选一个你认为很好、如果你获胜你会去倡导推行的政策构想。纳夫。
Original English >> Pick one policy idea from one of the other people at this table that you think is good, and you would champion if you won. Nev.
>> 听着，我认为迪伦和我深入探讨过很多关于可负担托儿服务并将其付诸实施的想法。安大略省目前仍有点落后，每个家庭每天平均大约要花19加元左右。我们必须把价格降下来，创造更多托位，招聘更多工作人员。所以我认为这既是一个至关重要的经济解决方案，也是一项优秀的社会政策。
Original English >> Look, I think. >> Dylan and I have talked about this a lot about affordable child care, putting that in motion. Ontario is still a bit behind. It's 19 bucks roughly per family right now. We've got to bring that price point down. We've got to create more spaces. We've got to get more staff. So I would say that's such an important economic solution, as well as great social policy.
>> 斯蒂芬妮。
Original English >> Stephanie
>> 我跟迪伦说过，我非常赞同他彻底禁止网络赌博的想法。我认为这是一个非常大胆的举措。我说过我喜欢这个提议。
Original English you know, I told Dylan that I really liked his banning gambling, online gambling altogether. So I think it was a really bold, bold step. And I, and I, and I said, I, I like that idea.
>> 所以如果你赢了，你就会推行它？
Original English >> So if you win, you're going to. >> Do it.
>> 我也会推行它，是的。
Original English >> I'm going to do it too. Yeah.
>> 那财政收入怎么办？
Original English >> What about the revenue?
>> 与它造成的危害相比，那些收入根本算不上什么。我们再次清楚地看到，这届政府没有花足够的时间去真正探讨如何发展经济。我希望确保我们建设一个有温度的强劲经济。
Original English >> It's it's it's nothing compared to the damage it's caused. And we know again, that this government is not spending enough time actually talking about how they grow the economy. I want to make sure we grow a strong economy with.
>> 李，如果你赢了，你想采纳并倡导谁的政策？
Original English >> Hart Lee. Whose policy do you want to steal if you win and champion?
>> 我要把赞誉归于我的同僚斯蒂芬妮·鲍曼。作为前会计师，她对我们预算中一些潜在的节支机会做了细致入微的审视。如果还可以再提一个的话，我也很喜欢跨代际税制改革的构想。
Original English >> Well, I mean, I will give credit to my colleague Stephanie Bowman here. She's done the detailed, you know, as as a as a previous accountant. She's done the detailed look at some of the opportunities for savings in our in the budget. And then if I can, I'll say one other. I do like the idea of the generational tax reform.
>> 迪伦。
Original English >> Dylan.
>> 我认为各位候选人之间达成了高度一致：我们必须把北部的公路改建为双向四车道。对此我全力支持。
Original English >> I think there's unanimity among the candidates that we've got to win the northern highways. So I'm all in on that.
>> 你全力支持这个。你用这个回答让所有人都高兴了，多么聪明的做法。我必须说，多年来主持过好几场这种辩论，你们大家看起来相处得有点太融洽了，对于一群竞争同一职位的人来说。
Original English >> You're all in on that. You made everyone happy with that. What a brilliant play. I must. >> Say, having having done a few of these over the years, you folks seem to get along a little too well. >> For people. >> Who are all competing for the same job.
>> 你一开始就这么说过，不是吗？
Original English >> You said that at the beginning, didn't we?
>> 你一开始确实就这么讲过。
Original English >> You did say that at the beginning.
>> 说实话，这真是非同寻常。能与各位同台展开精彩的对话是一件令人愉悦的事。我们可能会有分歧，但相互间的尊重始终都在，我感到非常开心。
Original English >> It's been honestly, it's been remarkable. It's been a pleasure being on stage with these folks, having great conversations. We might disagree, but the respect is there and I've enjoyed it immensely.
>> 难道真让他说最后一句话吗？
Original English >> Does he really get the last word?
>> 不，我不想占着时间，所以我停顿了。请……
Original English >> No, I didn't want. >> To, so I paused. You could please.
>> 用我的时间。
Original English >> Take. >> My time.
>> 我想我们大家都坚定致力于在下届选举中对道格·福特带来变革。作为候选人我们已经做好了准备，现在全党必须行动起来，下一次我们必须获胜。
Original English >> I think we're just all very committed to making sure we bring change in the next election with Doug Ford. So this we need to we've done as candidates now we need to do the whole party and we need to win next time.
>> 你想说最后一句吗？
Original English >> You want the last word?
>> 不，不，我在之前的一场辩论中就说过，这些都是非常出色的候选人。当我成为党领时，我希望他们都在我的团队里。
Original English >> No, no, no, I you know, I I've said it one of. >> The previous I said it in one of the previous debates that these are all great candidates. And when I'm leader I hope they're all on my team.
>> 她已经在给我发信号示意时间到了，我们必须结束了。非常感谢四位今晚光临并回答我们的提问。这是本次自由党党领竞选的最后一场辩论。安大略省自由党党员将于11月9日至11月20日在网上投票。投票结果将于11月21日向公众公布，大家将在多伦多会议中心集会。我和我的好友JMM（约翰·迈克尔·麦格拉思，John Michael McGrath）将在TVO.org上进行全程报道，直到优胜者揭晓，希望届时大家能加入我们。
Original English >> She's given me the hook. >> We got to go. >> Thanks a lot you for really appreciate you coming in tonight and taking our questions. That is the last debate of this Liberal leadership race. Ontario Liberals will vote online from November 9th through November 20th. The results will then be revealed to the public on November 21st. They're all gathering at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. My pal JMM John Michael McGrath and I will be there providing gavel to gavel coverage on TVO.org until the winner is announced, and we hope you will join us for that.