---
author: New York Times Podcasts
date: '2026-05-15'
guest: ''
layout: post.njk
source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ios9pcBqlTc
speaker: New York Times Podcasts
tags:
  - mental-health
  - writing-process
  - personal-narrative
  - literary-themes
  - book-recommendation
title: 'Matt Haig: 从《午夜图书馆》到个人成长与创作的心路历程'
summary: 本文深度访谈了英国畅销书作家 Matt Haig，他分享了其代表作《午夜图书馆》和新作《午夜列车》的创作灵感，以及非虚构作品《活下去的理由》背后与心理健康斗争的个人经历。访谈探讨了阅读（尤其是童书）对其复原力的影响，小说与非虚构创作的异同，以及他如何通过写作疗愈自身。此外，文章还收录了 Jen Harland 推荐的数本与 Haig 作品风格相似、充满人文关怀与奇幻元素的书籍。
insight: ''
draft: true
series: ''
category: philosophy-wisdom
area: society-thinking
project: []
people:
  - Matt Haig
companies_orgs:
  - New York Times
  - Book Trust
products_models: []
media_books:
  - The Midnight Library
  - The Midnight Train
  - Reasons to Stay Alive
  - Winnie the Pooh
  - The House at Pooh Corner
  - The Outsiders
  - Invisible Cities
  - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
  - Paris Trance
  - The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue
  - The History of Love
  - We Burned So Bright
  - A Novel Love Story
  - The Someday Garden
status: evergreen
---
### 《午夜图书馆》：平行人生与遗憾的哲学思考

Matt Haig 的畅销书**《午夜图书馆》**（The Midnight Library）讲述了一个引人深思的故事：主人公诺拉·希德（Norah Seed）在人生低谷时，进入了一个神秘的图书馆。这里每一本书都代表着她可能活出的另一种人生，只要打开书，她就能体验如果做了不同选择，人生将走向何方。这本书于2020年出版后，全球销量超过1000万册，将 Matt Haig 的作家生涯推向了新的高度。这一核心概念——“人生选择的分支”——源于 Matt Haig 长期以来对**文学影响**（literary influences）的思考，特别是对 Sylvia Plath 笔下“无花果树”概念和 Jorge Luis Borges“迷宫式图书馆”设想的钟爱。他发现，当今社交媒体和互联网时代，人们总是在不断地将自己与“别处的生活”进行比较，这种普遍存在的焦虑感促成了他创作这部作品。

<details>
<summary>Original English Source</summary>

I'm
 Gilbert
 Cruz
 and
 this
 is
 the
 book


review
 from
 the
 New
 York
 Times.
 Today
 on


the
 show,
 we've
 got
 some
 book


recommendations
 for
 you.
 We're
 going
 to


get
 into
 those
 a
 bit
 later,
 but
 first


it's
 author
 Matt
 Hey.
 Matt,
 you
 live
 in


Brighton?


>> Yes,
 Brighton.


>> He's
 most
 known
 in
 the
 United
 States
 for


his
 smash
 hit,
 The
 Midnight
 Library.


That's
 the
 story
 of
 a
 woman
 who
 has


reached
 a
 breaking
 point.
 She
 ends
 up
 in


a
 library
 filled
 with
 books
 that
 each


hold
 a
 different
 version
 of
 her
 life.
 if


she
 opens
 one,
 she
 can
 step
 into
 the


life
 she
 would
 have
 lived
 if
 she
 had


made
 different
 decisions.
 That
 book
 was


published
 in
 2020
 and
 it
 became
 hugely


[snorts]
 popular,
 selling
 more
 than
 10


million
 copies
 worldwide.
 Matt
 is
 now


out
 with
 a
 new
 book,
 something
 he
 sees


as
 kind
 of
 a
 sibling
 to
 the
 Midnight


Library.
 It's
 called
 The
 Midnight
 Train.


I'd
 love
 to
 start
 before
 we
 talk
 about


The
 Midnight
 Train
 with
 The
 Midnight


Library
 since
 they
 are
 connected.
 This


is
 a
 book
 that
 really
 took
 you
 to


another
 level
 in
 your
 career,
 at least


in
 terms
 of
 your
 notability.
 How
 many


people
 are
 reading
 her
 books?
 It's
 a


story
 about
 a
 woman
 named
 Norah
 Seed.


She
 has
 experienced,
 as
 have
 we
 all,


many
 regrets
 in
 her
 life.
 And
 on
 one


particular
 night,
 she
 decides
 that
 she


doesn't
 want
 to
 live
 anymore.
 She
 finds


herself,
 however,
 in
 quote,
 "The


Midnight
 Library,
 where
 each
 book,
 this


is
 such
 a
 great
 concept,
 each
 book


transports
 Nora
 into
 a
 life
 that
 she


could
 have
 lived
 had
 she
 made
 different


decisions.
 The
 little
 decision
 trees


that
 branch
 off
 from
 everything
 we


choose."
 Where
 did
 that
 idea
 come
 from?


This
 idea
 that
 you
 can
 open
 a
 book
 and


maybe
 enter
 a
 different
 version
 of
 your


own
 life.


>> Well,
 it
 was
 an
 idea
 that
 was
 bubbling


away
 in
 various
 forms
 in
 my
 head
 for


ages
 and
 ages
 and
 ages.
 I
 mean
 obviously


the
 sort
 of
 literary
 influences.
 You've


got
 the
 Sylvia
 Pla
 idea
 of
 the
 fig
 tree


branching
 off.
 You've
 got
 Bartz's
 idea


of
 Labyrin
 Fine
 Libraries
 and
 I
 always


love
 that
 sort
 of
 stuff.
 With
 me
 I
 was


really
 struggling
 until
 I
 got
 the
 title


until
 I
 got
 the
 midnight
 library.
 I


think
 it
 was
 the
 library
 of
 lost
 lives


for
 quite
 a
 while.
 And
 I
 think,
 you


know,
 unconsciously
 perhaps
 it
 came


around
 from
 me
 spending
 too
 much
 time
 on


social
 media
 and
 on
 the
 internet
 and


that
 feeling
 that
 there's
 a
 life


elsewhere
 or
 that
 we're
 constantly


comparing
 ourselves


>> to
 something
 else.
 So,
 it
 was
 a
 precoid


book.
 I
 mean,
 it's
 often
 seen
 as
 a
 COVID


novel
 because
 of
 when
 it
 arrived,
 but
 it


was
 pre-
 pandemic.
 So,
 it
 wasn't
 quite


that
 existential
 moment.
 It
 was
 more


this
 idea
 that
 we
 weren't
 living
 our


best
 life.
 And
 I
 was
 doing
 a
 lot
 of
 uh


wishful
 thinking,
 a
 lot
 of
 regretting,
 a


lot
 of
 uh
 feeling
 like
 time
 was
 passing


by.
 And
 um
 in
 the
 UK,
 I
 was
 already
 a


bit
 known
 for
 writing
 about
 mental


health.
 and
 I'd
 done
 so
 in
 non-fiction.


I'd
 written
 a
 uh
 memoir
 slash


slight
 self-helpy
 territory
 book
 called


Reasons
 to
 Stay
 Alive.
 And
 that
 felt


quite
 cathartic
 to
 write
 because
 that


was
 kind
 of
 a
 release,
 but
 at
 the
 same


time,
 non-fiction
 confines
 you
 in


certain
 ways.
 You
 know,
 you
 were
 writing


about
 real
 people.
 You're
 writing
 about


your
 own
 parents.
 And
 so
 to
 take
 a
 story


with
 mental
 health,
 mental
 illness


themes
 and
 to
 fictionalize
 it
 again,


that
 was
 another
 thing
 I
 wanted
 to
 do


with
 it.
</details>

### 从非虚构到小说的疗愈之旅：《活下去的理由》的诞生

Matt Haig 提到，在《午夜图书馆》之前，他已因**心理健康**（mental health）主题的写作在英国小有名气，尤其是他的非虚构作品**《活下去的理由》**（Reasons to Stay Alive）。这本书的诞生纯属偶然。当年 Matt Haig 担任英国慈善机构 Book Trust 的驻站作家，需每周更新博客。在写作关于写作技巧的常规内容感到枯燥后，他决定坦露自己的**精神健康困境**（mental health wobble）。他曾有过**自杀念头**（suicidal ideation）并患有**抑郁症**（depression）。他写了一篇名为《活下去的理由》的博客，列举了一些生活中的箴言式建议，没想到这篇博客在英国图书界引起了广泛关注，被大量分享，他也收到了许多反馈。一位出版界的女士联系他，鼓励他将这些经历写成一本书。

2014年，当 Matt Haig 撰写此书时，他已走出24岁时那段几乎**结束生命**（ended my life）的至暗时刻，身心俱在更好的状态。当时的他既未接受过治疗，也未被诊断出**神经多样性**（neurodiversity），更不了解自己的大脑运作机制（他后来被诊断出患有**自闭症** Autism 和**多动症** ADHD）。在一种近乎**宣泄**（cathartic）的状态下，他写下了这部回忆录。他形容那段经历仿佛置身“燃烧的建筑物”中，身心俱疲。通过写作，他试图向过去的自己传递一个“瓶中信”，希望找到能够帮助身处同样困境的人的文字。这本书不仅帮助了有相似经历的人，更触动了那些在关系中挣扎的人，让他们得以理解亲友在最黑暗时刻的内心世界。Matt Haig 认为，**抑郁症**（depression）是一种“无形之物”，它不像骨折那样有外在的石膏或轮椅，因此很难被他人理解。他努力通过**比喻和隐喻**（similes and metaphors）将这种“无形之物”具象化，旨在**让无形可见**（make the invisible visible），以此打破**社会污名**（stigma），帮助人们对抑郁症患者产生共情。

<details>
<summary>Original English Source</summary>

>> I
do
 want
 to
 go
 back
 a
 few
 years
 because


you
 made
 reference
 to
 a
 non-fiction
 book


that
 you
 had
 written
 that
 had
 received


good
 notices
 and
 a
 claim
 in
 the
 United


Kingdom.
 It
 was
 a
 book
 about
 your


younger
 years
 and
 I
 was
 wondering
 if
 you


could
 talk
 about
 how
 that
 book
 in


particular
 came
 to
 be.
 So
 many
 of
 those


themes
 are
 connected
 to
 so
 many
 of
 the


themes
 and
 the
 fiction
 that
 you've
 been


writing
 over
 the
 past
 years,


>> right?
 Yes,
 absolutely.
 Of
 all
 the
 books


I've
 written,
 it
 was
 the
 most


accidental.
 It
 was
 called
 Reasons
 to


Stay
 Alive,
 which
 is
 a
 very
 a
 typical
 me


sort
 of
 two
 on
 the
 nose
 kind
 of
 title.


[laughter]


A
 little
 bit
 um
 ambitious,
 but
 uh
 yeah,


it
 was
 accidental
 in
 the
 sense
 that
 I


was
 a
 novelist.
 I
 saw
 myself
 as
 a


novelist.
 Then
 there
 was
 a
 charity
 in


the
 UK,
 a
 very
 good
 charity
 called
 Book


Trust.
 And
 I
 was
 there
 writer
 and


residence
 for
 a
 while,
 which
 basically


meant
 I
 had
 to
 write
 a
 blog
 once
 a
 week.


And
 so
 I
 started
 with
 your
 basic
 blogs


about
 being
 a
 writer,
 writing
 tips,
 and


I
 was
 I
 was
 starting
 to
 bore
 myself


about
 3
 months
 in,
 uh,
 repeating
 myself


over
 and
 over.
 So,
 and
 I'd
 had
 a
 recent


u
 mental
 health
 wobble.
 And
 so,
 I
 sort


of
 like
 publicly
 came
 out
 in
 a
 small
 way


on
 the
 internet
 as
 this
 person
 who
 had


been
 suicidal,
 who
 had
 depression.
 I'd


never
 really
 publicly
 talked
 about
 my


mental
 health,
 but
 I
 wrote
 a
 single
 blog


called
 Reasons
 to
 Stay
 Alive
 at
 one


point,
 and
 it
 was
 a
 sort
 of
 bulletointed


list
 of
 uh
 little
 sort
 of
 apheristic


advice.
 and
 it
 went
 sort
 of
 semiviral.


Certainly
 in
 the
 UK
 book
 world
 it
 sort


of
 took
 off
 a
 bit
 and
 was
 shared
 around


and
 I
 had
 a
 lot
 a
 lot
 of
 feedback
 about


it
 and
 a
 woman
 who
 worked
 in
 publishing


got
 in
 touch
 with
 me
 and
 um
 she
 said
 I


should
 write
 a
 book
 about
 it.


Ben,
 one
 summer
 feeling
 very
 happy
 in


about
 uh
 2014,
 feeling
 very
 different
 to


my
 younger
 suicidal
 self.
 I
 mean,
 I
 I


literally
 nearly,
 you
 know,
 ended
 my


life
 um
 at
 the
 age
 of
 24.
 Um
 and


it
 was
 a
 long
 way
 out
 of
 that.
 So,
 I
 I


needed
 to
 be
 in
 a
 very
 different
 place


and
 I
 was
 in
 a
 very
 different
 place
 uh


physically
 and
 emotionally.
 And
 I
 just


poured
 it
 all
 out
 without
 ever
 having


had
 therapy
 at
 this
 point
 in
 my
 life,


without
 knowing
 I
 was
 neurodeiverse,


which
 you
 know
 I've
 since
 been
 diagnosed


with
 autism
 and
 ADHD.
 Without
 knowing


that
 much
 really
 about
 my
 mind,
 I
 wrote


this
 very
 raw,
 quite
 clumsy
 at
 times,


choppy
 book
 that
 was
 working
 out
 what
 it


was
 as
 I
 was
 going.
 I
 was
 like,
 is
 this


a
 book
 of
 advice
 or
 is
 this
 a
 book
 about


memory
 and
 what
 I
 remember?
 And
 the
 only


straight
 line
 through
 it
 was
 me


remembering
 myself
 at
 24
 wanting
 to
 die,


not
 out
 of
 any
 sort
 of
 pre-planned
 death


wish,
 but
 being
 suddenly
 thrown
 into


this
 state
 of
 panic
 and
 depression
 and


physic
 really
 physical
 feelings.
 Even


the
 brain
 stuff
 felt
 physical
 a
 lot
 of


the
 time.
 And
 the
 line
 between
 mental


and
 physical
 was
 so
 sort
 of
 blurred
 and


I
 didn't
 know
 what
 was
 happening
 to
 me.


So
 it
 was
 like
 being
 in
 a
 burning


building.
 You
 don't
 plan
 to
 throw


yourself
 out
 of
 a
 window,
 but
 suddenly


the
 situation
 had
 massively
 changed.
 So,


it
 was
 that
 it
 was
 a
 desperate
 thing


that
 had
 come
 on
 the
 back
 of
 years,
 I


think,
 of
 low-level
 depression,


undiagnosed,
 masked
 mental
 health


issues,
 masked
 by
 alcohol
 and
 drugs.
 It


was
 very
 sort
 of
 cathartic
 to
 write
 all


that
 stuff
 and
 to
 speak
 to
 that
 person.


That
 was
 what
 I
 was
 sort
 of
 trying
 to


do.
 I
 was
 trying
 to
 write
 a
 sort
 of


message
 in
 a
 bottle
 back
 through
 time
 to


this
 person
 to
 see
 if
 there
 are
 words


that
 could
 keep
 someone
 in
 that
 state
 or


someone
 next
 to
 someone
 who's
 been
 in


that
 state
 to
 see
 if
 anything
 could
 get


through.
 A
 lot
 of
 the
 people
 who


responded
 to
 it,
 obviously
 yes,
 there's


a
 lot
 who
 had
 gone
 through
 something


similar,
 but
 what
 really
 sort
 of
 uh


touched
 me
 was
 um
 people
 who
 had
 been


struggling
 in
 relationships
 with
 like


their
 children
 or
 parents
 or
 partner


understanding
 what
 had
 gone
 on
 in
 their


sort
 of
 darkest
 moments.
 And
 I
 think


that
 was
 another
 incentive
 of
 mine
 to


provide
 a
 kind
 of
 window
 because
 I
 can


remember
 being
 unable
 to
 articulate
 what


I
 was
 feeling.
 Often
 it
 was
 like
 a
 a


physical
 heavy
 like
 I
 could
 hardly
 speak


because
 of
 a
 sort
 of
 weight.


And
 so
 I
 think
 to
 visualize
 it
 and
 to


use
 a
 lot
 of
 simileies
 and
 metaphors
 to


take
 this
 very
 invisible
 thing


>> which
 doesn't
 come
 with
 crutches.
 It


doesn't
 come
 with
 a
 wheelchair.
 it
 you


you
 you
 kind
 of
 have
 to
 describe
 it
 for


people
 to
 empathize
 with
 it
 and
 often
 in


the
 state
 of
 depression
 you're
 unable
 to


describe
 it.
 So
 hence
 stigma
 rises
 and


you
 know
 that
 inability
 to
 see
 someone.


So
 I
 was
 trying
 to
 make
 the
 invisible


visible
 in
 that
 sense
 and
 I
 genuinely


wrote
 it
 thinking
 it
 was
 going
 to
 be
 a


very
 niche
 book
 that
 only
 a
 few
 people.


So
 the
 thing
 that
 took
 me
 back
 and
 it's


obviously
 what
 you
 want.
 You
 want
 a
 you


want
 a
 lot
 of
 people
 to
 read
 your
 book.


But
 because
 it
 was
 that
 book
 and
 not
 a


fictional
 book,
 it
 was
 suddenly
 me
 out


there.
 It
 was
 suddenly
 me
 being


reviewed.
 It
 was
 suddenly
 me
 having
 to


sort
 of


>> offer
 my
 life
 story,
 everything.
 So
 that


I
 think
 I
 had
 a
 bit
 of
 time
 adjusting
 it


and
 to
 sort
 of
 claim
 myself
 back
 as
 a


novelist.
 [snorts]
</details>

### 阅读的治愈力量与作家之路的启迪

在 Matt Haig 20多岁经历人生低谷后，他回到了家中，在儿时的卧室里重新阅读他青少年时期喜爱的书籍。他发现，当电视和杂志等视觉信息过载时，书籍成了他脆弱心灵的**平静港湾**（calm place）。这些书，特别是**儿童读物**（children's books），如**《小熊维尼》**（Winnie the Pooh）和**《小熊维尼的家》**（The House at Pooh Corner），以及青少年读物**《局外人》**（The Outsiders），让他得以**回到精神疾病出现前的时光**（retreat into that space before mental illness）。这个过程也是一种**精神训练**（training my mind），通过阅读来锻炼注意力，如同**精神力量训练**（strength training of the mind）。他意识到，儿童读物之所以出色，是因为它们能“在读者所在之处与你相遇”，帮助你重新建立自我。这种阅读体验的**纯粹性**（pureness）对他影响深远，甚至在他后来的“午夜系列”作品中，他也尝试融入这种**想象力的自由**（imaginative freedom），让奇幻的火车和图书馆成为可能。

Matt Haig 的早期写作生涯充满了探索。他的作品带有浓厚的**美式风格**（Americanized），因为他所看所读多为美国文化产品。青少年时期的他缺乏自信，学业表现平平，甚至被老师认为是“特殊需求学生”，因为他常常神游或聊天。在一次职业顾问的谈话中，他被告知作家之路不适合他这类背景的学生。然而，在生病之后，他发现自己处于一种**广场恐惧症**（agriphobic state）的状态，无法外出工作。在**居家办公**（working from home）尚未普及的年代，他“异想天开”地决定通过写小说谋生，这在当时并未得到父母的认同。他花了很长时间才从写作中获得经济回报，但写作是他唯一感到舒适的事情。大约22、23年前，他开始创作第一部小说，一部从狗的视角讲述的**家庭崩离故事**（dysfunctional family falling apart），名为**《拉布拉多公约》**（The Labrador Pact），在英国则叫**《英格兰的最后一个家庭》**（The Last Family in England），该书是对莎士比亚《亨利四世上篇》的重新演绎。虽然作品略显“故作深沉”，但写作过程本身充满了乐趣，也让他找到了自己偏爱**短章节**（short chapters）的写作风格。在创作过程中，他沉浸在自己的世界里，暂时忘却了抑郁和焦虑，写作对他来说是一种必要的**心理排解**（kind of needed to do）。

<details>
<summary>Original English Source</summary>

at
 a
 point
 after
 having
 a
 breakdown
 when


you
 were
 in
 your
 early
 20s,
 you
 moved


back
 home
 as
 you
 write.
 Uh,
 and
 I'm


particularly
 curious
 about
 this.
 You
 say


that
 you
 moved
 into
 your
 your
 childhood


bedroom
 and
 you
 started
 rereading
 books


that
 you
 had
 loved
 as
 a
 teenager.


There's
 a
 book
 podcast.
 We
 have
 to
 talk


about
 books.
 and
 and
 I'm
 curious
 what


you
 were
 rereading,
 how
 it
 was
 making


you
 feel,
 what
 you
 were
 getting
 out
 of


it,
 and
 then
 how
 that
 sort
 of
 led
 to
 you


continuing
 to
 realize
 that
 you
 wanted
 to


be
 a
 writer
 or
 that
 this
 is
 what
 you


were
 meant
 to
 do.


>> Well,
 I
 love
 now
 looking
 back
 that
 it


was
 just
 children's
 books
 because
 I


don't
 think
 I
 could
 have
 been
 reading
 I


mean,
 it
 wasn't
 just
 children's
 books.


There
 was
 some
 classics
 on
 there
 as


well,
 but
 it
 was
 basically
 books
 like


proper
 childhood
 books
 like
 Winnie
 the


Pooh
 and
 The
 House
 at
 Pooh
 Corner
 and
 um


teenage
 books
 like
 The
 Outsiders
 and


things
 like
 that.
 And
 why
 I
 could
 read


them
 was
 because
 everything
 else
 in


terms
 of
 television
 magazines,


I
 found
 it
 so
 over
 visually
 over


stimulating
 and
 I
 was
 in
 such
 a
 it


sounds
 pathetic,
 but
 I
 was
 in
 such
 a


sort
 of
 fragile
 state
 that
 books
 were


the
 sort
 of
 like
 calm
 place
 and
 the
 fact


that
 they
 were
 all
 books
 I'd
 read
 before


meant
 that
 I
 could
 retreat
 into
 a
 sort


of
 time
 before
 I
 could
 retreat
 into
 that


space
 before
 mental
 illness


>> and
 also
 it
 was
 it
 was
 kind
 of
 training


as
 well.
 I
 was
 training
 my
 mind
 to


concentrate
 um
 to
 read
 was
 like
 you
 know


it
 was
 like
 strength
 training
 of
 the


mind
 in
 terms
 of
 trying
 to
 build
 up


attention


>> and
 children's
 books
 are
 great
 for
 that


because
 they
 kind
 of
 lead
 you
 in
 you


know
 they're
 not
 they're
 not
 asking
 you


to
 come
 to
 it
 they
 sort
 of
 like
 meeting


you
 where
 you
 are.
 It
 was
 like
 building


myself
 up
 again.
 It
 was
 like
 sort
 of


like
 going
 back
 and
 um
 there's
 something


pure
 about
 the
 way
 you
 read
 a
 book
 as
 a


child.
 And
 even
 now,
 even
 in
 the
 sort
 of


midnight
 books,
 I
 try
 and
 have
 that


voice.
 I
 want
 the
 sort
 of
 best
 of
 both


worlds
 where
 you
 have
 the
 freedom
 to


write
 about
 whatever
 subject
 you
 want
 as


you
 would
 do
 in
 a
 novel
 for
 adults
 but


also
 to
 have
 the
 freedom
 that
 comes
 with


children's
 fiction
 which
 is
 a
 sort
 of


imaginative
 freedom
 where
 you
 can
 have


fantasy
 trains
 and
 fantasy
 libraries
 and


things
 children's
 books
 for
 adults.


>> What
 were
 your
 early
 writing
 years
 like?


When
 did
 you
 say
 you
 know
 I'm
 going
 to


I'm
 really
 going
 to
 try
 actually
 to
 make


a
 go
 of
 this?
 Um,
 well,
 I
 I'd
 always


written
 and
 my
 mom's
 one
 of
 those


embarrassingly
 proud
 moms
 who's
 got
 the


shoe
 box.


>> Oh,
 yeah.


>> Full
 of
 uh
 self-illustrated


attempts.
 My
 early
 writing
 when
 I
 was
 a


kid,
 it
 was
 always
 heavily
 heavily


Americanized.
 It
 was
 more
 American
 than


American.
 You
 know,
 it
 was
 like
 westerns


and
 it
 was
 always
 a
 cowboy
 called
 Jake


in
 Arizona.
 And,
 you
 know,
 it
 was
 just


like
 as
 American
 because
 everything
 I


watched
 on
 TV
 was
 American.
 Every
 book
 I


was
 reading
 was
 American.
 I
 had
 zero


confidence
 in
 myself
 growing
 up
 into
 as


teenager.
 I
 wasn't
 the
 most
 academic


teenager
 at
 school.
 You
 know,
 some
 of


the
 teachers
 said
 I
 was
 special
 needs


for
 certain
 subjects
 because
 I'd
 be


staring
 into
 space
 or
 chatting
 and
 just


not
 concentrating
 on
 anything.
 So,
 you


know,
 when
 I
 sort
 of
 spoke
 to
 a
 careers


advisor
 about
 wanting
 to
 be
 a
 writer,
 it


was
 just,
 you
 know,
 I
 wasn't
 from
 the


sort
 of
 school
 where
 people
 went
 to
 the


sort
 of
 universities
 where
 you'd
 imagine


you'd
 go
 to
 be
 a
 writer.
 So,
 it
 happened


in
 the
 moment
 really
 when
 after
 I
 was


ill,
 I
 don't
 want
 to
 turn
 turn
 this
 into


a
 therapy
 session,
 but
 I
 was
 still
 in
 a


sort
 of
 agriphobic
 state.
 And
 although


I'd
 had
 quite
 short-lived
 jobs


previously,
 I
 was
 at
 a
 point
 now
 where
 I


genuinely
 felt
 I
 couldn't
 go
 out
 to
 work


at
 that
 point.
 This
 was
 very
 early
 in


the
 sort
 of
 working
 from
 home


revolution.
 There
 wasn't
 social
 media.


The
 internet
 was
 very
 new.
 There
 weren't


many
 options
 of
 what
 you
 did
 from
 home.


And
 so
 I
 thought,
 you
 know,
 ridiculously


I
 thought
 I'm
 going
 to
 make
 my
 money


writing
 novels,
 which
 obviously
 didn't


go
 down
 well
 with
 the
 parents
 or


anything
 else
 of
 that
 time.
 And
 to
 be


fair,
 it
 took
 a
 long
 while
 before
 I
 saw


any
 uh
 money
 from
 it.
 But
 the
 one
 thing


I
 felt
 comfortable
 doing
 was
 writing.
 So


I
 suppose
 it's
 22
 23
 years
 ago
 I
 started


writing
 a
 very
 strange
 novel
 which
 in


America
 is
 called
 the
 Labrador
 pact.
 My


title
 for
 it
 was
 the
 last
 family
 in


England
 which
 is
 what
 it's
 called
 here.


Very
 strange
 quite
 pretentious


young
 man's
 first
 novel
 about
 a
 well


it's
 told
 from
 the
 perspective
 of
 a
 dog.


>> Good
 start.


>> Um
 and
 but
 it's
 not
 but
 it's
 not
 a


children's
 story.
 Mhm.


>> H
 and
 it's
 about
 a
 dysfunctional
 family


of
 humans
 falling
 apart.
 And
 it's
 to
 up


the
 pretentiousness
 a
 little
 bit


further.
 It's
 a
 retelling
 of


Shakespeare's
 Henry
 the
 fourth
 part
 one


[laughter]


>> with
 Labradors


at
 all.
 I
 agree
 with
 you.


>> Um
 and
 yeah,
 but
 I
 had
 fun
 writing
 it.
 I


started
 to
 realize
 I
 like
 writing
 short


chapters,
 which
 I
 still
 do.
 I
 still


write
 short
 chapters.
 And
 I
 wasn't


consciously
 thinking
 about
 depression
 or


anxiety
 or
 worrying
 about
 the
 sky


falling
 in.
 I
 was
 in
 the
 world
 that
 I


was
 writing.
 I
 wouldn't
 necessarily


recommend
 anyone
 to
 go
 and
 read
 that


word
 world
 I
 was
 writing.
 But
 at
 that
 at


that
 time
 it
 was
 what
 I
 kind
 of
 needed


to
 do.
 Mhm.
</details>

### Thoreau哲学：极简主义与自我价值的回归

在**《午夜图书馆》**（The Midnight Library）中，主人公诺拉·希德（Nora）对哲学充满兴趣，书中穿插了许多著名思想家的引言，其中**亨利·戴维·梭罗**（Henry David Thoreau）的思想反复出现。Matt Haig 认为，梭罗对于21世纪被现代性、当代社会和资本主义重压所困扰的心灵具有极大的吸引力。这并非指梭罗的真实人物，而是他所代表的**瓦尔登湖**（Walden）精神：回归自然、搭建小屋、从社会中隐退，从而**丰富自我**（enriching yourself）。《午夜图书馆》的主旨，用不剧透的方式来说，就是强调**重视自身存在的极简主义**（valuing the minimalism of your own existence）。那些看似光鲜亮丽的东西，比如奥运奖牌、高飞的职业生涯或无限财富，可能并非真正的答案。真正的答案或许早已存在于你的内心，只待你**向内求索**（retreating）。梭罗的《瓦尔登湖》不仅关乎在自然中生活的实用性，更是在精神层面剥离一切外物，去审视内心深处究竟有何存在。

<details>
<summary>Original English Source</summary>

You
 um
 in
 the
 Midnight


Library,
 you
 know,
 Nora,
 the
 main


character,
 has
 all
 these
 interests
 and


and
 one
 of
 them
 is
 philosophy.
 The
 book


is
 studded
 with
 all
 these
 quotes
 from


famous
 thinkers
 and
 one
 of
 course
 that


keeps
 popping
 up
 is
 the
 American


philosopher
 thinker
 [snorts]
 Henry
 David


Throw.
 Um
 what
 was
 it
 about
 him
 in


particular
 that
 was
 important
 to
 have
 as


the
 focus
 for
 this
 character
 and
 why


even
 put
 all
 these
 philosophical
 musings


in
 the
 Midnight
 Library?
 Well,
 I
 think


Theorough
 is
 like
 a
 very
 attractive


figure
 for
 a
 21st
 century
 mind
 that


feels
 overwhelmed
 by
 modernity
 and


contemporary
 society,
 capitalism,


everything
 else.
 just
 not
 necessarily


the
 real
 man
 who
 he
 was,
 but
 the
 idea
 of


Walden,
 the
 idea
 of
 going
 into
 the


woods,
 building
 a
 cabin,
 retreating
 from


society
 and
 then
 enriching
 yourself


more.
 And
 I
 suppose
 the
 theme
 of
 the


Midnight
 Library
 without
 being
 too


spoilerish
 is
 essentially
 about
 valuing


the
 minimalism
 of
 your
 own
 existence
 and


and
 seeing
 that
 as
 you
 know
 the
 things


that
 look
 shiny
 like
 the
 Olympic
 medals


or
 the
 high-flying
 careers
 or
 the


infinite
 riches,
 you
 know,
 they
 might


not
 be
 the
 answer.
 Maybe
 the
 answer
 is


sort
 of
 already
 inside
 you
 and


retreating.
 And
 I
 I
 feel
 like
 Walden
 in


particular,
 it's
 about
 the


practicalities
 of
 nature
 and
 living
 in


nature,
 but
 it's
 also
 on
 that
 spiritual


level
 about
 stripping
 everything
 else


away
 and
 seeing
 what's
 [music]
 there.
</details>

### 世界观拓展与“午夜列车”的新视角

Matt Haig 的新作**《午夜列车》**（The Midnight Train）被他视为**《午夜图书馆》**（The Midnight Library）的“姊妹篇”（sibling），而非续集。最初，这部小说名为**《记忆窃贼》**（The Memory Thief），是一部关于AI的反乌托邦科幻作品。最终，除了角色艾格尼丝（Agnes）和威尼斯蜜月场景被保留外，其余内容都被完全重写和重新构思。故事演变为一个81岁老人乘坐魔法列车，重温生命中最重要时刻的情节，探讨了**人生走马灯**（life flashing before your eyes）的科学。Matt Haig 认为，《午夜列车》与《午夜图书馆》在主题上存在微妙的“争论”，它对人生得出了一个略微不同的结论，传递了一个不同的教训。如果说《午夜图书馆》的核心是**接受**（acceptance），即不必总觉得“邻家的草更绿”，那么《午夜列车》则代表着**行动和改变的渴望**（desire to act or to change things），它提供了一种看待遗憾的不同视角——如果你能在生命的最后一天拥有**未来视角**（future perspective），你将如何生活？你会在何时下车改变事物？这意味着《午夜列车》以一种“微妙而温柔的方式”，与《午夜图书馆》产生了“一点小小的分歧”，鼓励人们尝试改变现状。

Matt Haig 在反思个人经历时表示，如果能重温人生片段，他会选择回到**早期育儿阶段**（early parenting years）。那个年代尚未普及视频记录，他职业生涯刚起步，被出版商放弃后又找到了新东家，为了养家糊口而疲于奔命，因此对未能充分投入陪伴孩子感到遗憾。英国诗人 Harry Baker 的诗集，记录了他儿子出生头100天的点滴，让 Matt Haig 更加希望能有类似记录。他认为，那段时期过得飞快，留下的只是**印象派般的模糊记忆**（impressionistic blur），很难清晰回溯。回到童年则可能“令人痛苦”，因为他的青少年时期并不快乐。他曾因家庭背景（母亲是老师，父亲是建筑师）在学校被视为“上层”，为了融入环境而**行为越轨**（downwardly mobile），甚至在16岁时因**商店行窃**（shoplifting）被捕。这段叛逆时期与他热爱阅读、沉浸图书馆的“书呆子”形象形成奇特的反差。他引用了格雷厄姆·格林（Graeme Greene）的话：“悲惨的童年是取之不尽的财富之源。”Matt Haig 认为，他青少年时期的经历足以让他“永远写作，永远疗愈”。

<details>
<summary>Original English Source</summary>

[music]
 We're
 going
 to
 take
 a
 short


break
 and
 then
 Matt
 Hey
 talks
 about
 his


new
 novel,
 The
 Midnight
 Train,
 in
 which


an
 81-year-old
 man
 boards
 a
 magical


train
 that
 allows
 him
 to
 relive
 the
 most


significant
 moments
 of
 his
 life.


>> [music]


>> We'll
 be
 right
 back.


A
 phrase
 and
 a
 term
 that
 has
 become
 very


popular
 in
 the
 past
 couple
 decades
 of


course
 is
 world
 building.
 What
 was
 the


impetus
 to
 take
 your
 Midnight
 Library


world
 for
 lack
 of
 a
 better
 description


and
 extend
 it
 or
 you
 know
 complicate
 it


in
 some
 way
 and
 present
 a
 different


perspective
 to
 the
 way
 that
 someone


might
 reexperience
 their
 life
 or


experience
 their
 life
 in
 a
 different


way?


>> Oh
 yeah,
 good
 question.
 All
 I
 can
 say
 to


answer
 that
 is
 it
 happened
 very


organically.


>> It
 didn't
 happen
 in
 a
 I'm
 going
 to
 write


a
 sequel
 sense.
 And
 it's
 not
 a
 sequel.


It's
 a
 companion
 at
 best
 or
 a
 sibling.
 I


like
 to
 call
 it
 a
 sibling.
 The
 Midnight


Train
 started
 as
 a
 very
 very
 different


novel.
 I
 mean,
 all
 my
 books
 sort
 of
 end


up
 with
 different
 titles
 and
 uh


different
 things.
 The
 Midnight
 Train


originally
 started
 as
 a
 novel
 called
 The


Memory
 Thief,
 and
 it
 was
 quite
 dystopian


science
 fiction
 about
 AI.
 The
 only
 thing


that's
 been
 sort
 of
 preserved
 from
 that


first
 draft
 is
 the
 fact
 that
 there's
 a


character
 called
 Agnes
 and
 also
 there's


a
 honeymoon
 in
 Venice.
 Everything
 else


was
 new
 and
 sort
 of
 reddrafted
 and
 along


the
 way
 it
 became
 something
 else.
 It


became
 this,
 you
 know,
 about
 your
 life


flashing
 before
 your
 eyes.
 And
 then
 it


there
 was
 a
 vehicle
 for
 that,
 a
 train,


and
 that
 came
 in
 a
 minute.
 It
 was
 the


yesterday
 train.
 And
 then
 I
 was
 starting


to
 talk
 about
 the
 science
 of
 your
 life


flashing
 before
 your
 eyes.
 And
 I
 was


starting
 to
 realize
 I
 was
 actually


having
 an
 argument
 a
 little
 bit
 with
 the


Midnight
 Library.
 I
 feel
 like
 it's


coming
 to
 a
 different
 conclusion
 about


life
 and
 it
 has
 slightly
 different


lesson.


>> I
 feel
 like
 The
 Midnight
 Library
 is
 very


much
 just
 about
 acceptance.
 And
 I
 I


agree
 with
 I
 agree
 we
 shouldn't
 always


imagine
 the
 grass
 is
 greener
 and
 stuff


like
 that,
 but
 I
 feel
 like
 this
 book


represents
 a
 desire
 to
 act
 or
 to
 change


things.
 So
 it's
 a
 different
 approach
 to


regrets.
 It's
 about
 how
 you
 would
 live


if
 you
 had
 that
 future
 perspective
 of


your
 last
 day.


>> How
 would
 that
 change
 the
 course
 of
 your


life?
 What
 point
 of
 the
 train
 would
 you


want
 to
 get
 off
 and
 change
 things?


So,
 this
 one
 is
 saying
 something


different.
 It's
 saying,
 "Let's
 try
 and


step
 off
 the
 train.
 Let's
 try
 and
 uh


change
 things."
 So,
 in
 its
 own
 subtle,


gentle
 way,
 it's
 having
 a
 little
 falling


out
 with
 the
 uh
 Midnight
 Library.
 Uh
 I


have
 to
 imagine
 this
 is
 a
 question
 that


you
 will
 get
 a
 bunch
 but
 I
 have
 to
 ask


because
 the
 the
 idea
 of
 the
 book
 demands


it
 which
 is
 um
 have
 you
 given
 thought
 to


the
 moments
 you
 would
 like
 to
 look
 at


again
 in
 your
 life.
 You
 don't
 need
 to


change
 them.
 You
 don't
 need
 to


intervene.
 Just
 observe.


>> Well
 yeah
 I'm
 going
 to
 be
 boring
 and
 go


quite
 recent
 history.
 I
 would
 go
 back
 to


the
 sort
 of
 early
 parenting
 years


>> because
 it
 was
 just
 the
 era
 before


everyone
 videoed
 everything.
 So,
 we


don't
 have
 much
 sort
 of
 video
 content
 of


that
 and
 I
 don't
 have
 much
 memory
 like


career
 was
 just
 getting
 off
 the
 ground.


Um,
 I'd
 just
 been
 dropped
 by
 a
 publisher


and
 then
 I'd
 found
 a
 new
 publisher
 and
 I


was
 just
 focused
 on
 providing
 and
 doing


all
 that
 stuff
 and
 so
 I
 sort
 of
 regret


not
 being
 there.
 the
 I
 did
 an
 event


recently
 with
 a
 a
 British
 poet
 you
 may


not
 be
 aware
 of
 called
 Harry
 Baker
 and


he's
 just
 written
 a
 lovely
 sweet
 poetry


collection
 and
 each
 page
 each
 poem
 is
 a


different
 day
 in
 the
 first
 100
 days
 of


his
 baby
 son
 I
 think
 life
 and
 so
 just
 to


remember
 and
 record
 and
 I
 was
 thinking


oh
 I
 wish
 I'd
 written
 something
 down


that
 had
 happened
 every
 single
 one
 of


those
 days
 because
 those
 early
 times


just
 go
 down
 like
 they


not
 just
 fast,
 but
 it's
 kind
 of
 this


impressionistic
 blur
 and
 you
 can't
 and


it's
 very
 hard
 to
 sort
 of
 remember
 back.


So,
 I
 wouldn't
 mind
 looking
 back
 at


that.
 I
 think
 if
 I
 went
 right
 back
 to


childhood,
 I'd
 find
 that
 quite
 uh
 quite


distressing.


>> Sure.


>> I
 wasn't
 a
 happy
 teenager
 particularly.


I
 think
 before
 that
 I've
 been
 quite


happy.
 I'd
 been
 at
 quite
 a
 small
 village


school
 and
 stuff,
 but
 when
 I
 went
 to
 big


school,
 I
 struggled
 fitting
 in.
 I
 was,


you
 know,
 in
 Britain
 there's
 a
 lot
 of


sort
 of
 class
 dynamics
 and
 I
 was
 at
 this


very
 quite
 tough
 school
 and
 I
 was
 seen


as
 quite
 posh
 because
 my
 mom
 was
 a


teacher,
 my
 dad
 was
 an
 architect
 and
 I


sort
 of
 struggled
 fitting
 in
 there
 and
 I


was
 often


uh
 quite
 sort
 of
 like
 downwardly
 mobile


and
 I
 got
 into
 shoplifting
 and
 I
 ended


up
 getting
 arrested
 for
 shoplifting
 at


the
 age
 of
 16.
 And
 so
 I
 was
 a
 bit
 of


delinquent
 for
 a
 while
 at
 the
 same
 time


as
 retreating
 to
 the
 library
 and
 being


bookish.
 there
 was
 this
 strange
 uh


combination.
 So
 not
 happy
 times
 at
 that


point
 in
 time
 and
 not
 you
 know
 giving
 my


parents
 quite
 a
 lot
 of
 uh
 grief
 as
 well.


So
 um
 I
 would
 yeah
 but
 but
 the
 thing
 is


about
 having
 a
 uh
 sort
 of
 like
 difficult


teen
 years.
 I
 think
 Graeme
 Green
 said


that
 childhood
 is
 like
 a
 miserable


childhood
 is
 the
 bank
 you
 keep
 on


pulling.
 My
 childhood
 wasn't
 that


miserable
 all
 the
 time,
 but
 I
 had
 enough


of
 it
 in
 my
 teenage
 years
 to
 sort
 of


like,
 okay,
 I
 can
 write
 forever
 can


process.
</details>

### 阅读品味：从奇特历史到文学经典

在访谈的最后环节，Matt Haig 分享了自己的阅读偏好。他家书架上意外地摆放着大量**奇特历史书籍**（strange history books），例如**《游乐园史》**（history of the amusement park）和**《拉斯维加斯建筑史》**（history of Las Vegas architecture），这类**流行文化历史**（pop culture history）是他非常感兴趣的领域。此外，由于父亲是建筑师，他对**建筑史**（architectural history）也颇有涉猎。他还受儿子影响，阅读不少**漫画**（manga）。

当被问及推荐一本鲜为人知的著作时，Matt Haig 选择了 Jeff Dyer 的**《巴黎恍惚》**（Paris Trance）。这本书描绘了90年代四位年轻人在巴黎俱乐部、聊天、闲逛的场景，充满了爵士乐和对话，完美捕捉了那个时代青年人的气息。他强调，这本书是在他几乎不阅读的时期，仍能吸引他并读进去的作品，因此意义非凡。

谈到最珍贵的礼物，Matt Haig 展示了一本19世纪的**《爱丽丝梦游仙境》**（Alice's Adventures in Wonderland），这本书由他祖母的祖母传承而来，是他家最接近**传家宝**（family heirloom）的物品。

至于反复重读的书籍，他提到了两本：一是 Italo Calvino 的**《看不见的城市》**（Invisible Cities），书中每一页都描绘了一个虚构的城市，读者可以随意翻阅，沉浸在想象的旅行中。另一本则是**《小熊维尼》**（Winnie the Pooh）或**《小熊维尼的家》**（The House at Pooh Corner）。他认为，童年阅读时享受的是冒险，成年后重读则能发现其中的**隐藏深度**（hidden depths）和**人生智慧**（wisdom）。他特别着迷于作者 A.A. Milne 充满波折的人生——米尔恩可能患有**创伤后应激障碍**（PTSD），他在**百亩森林**（100 Acre Wood）的世界中寻求慰藉。Matt Haig 还以21世纪的视角解读维尼角色，认为它们是**心理健康原型**（mental health archetype）的体现：小猪（Piglet）代表**焦虑**（anxiety），屹耳（Eeyore）代表**抑郁**（depression），而跳跳虎（Tigger）则展现了**多动症**（ADHD）的特征，这些都可以在哲学层面进行深入探讨。

<details>
<summary>Original English Source</summary>

>> I
am
 prepared
 to
 answer
 them.


>> Okay,
 first
 question.
 What
 book
 might


people
 be
 surprised
 to
 find
 on
 your


shelves?
 I
 think
 if
 you
 looked
 at
 my


shelves,
 you'd
 be
 surprised.
 I've
 got
 a


lot
 of
 very
 strange
 history
 books.
 Like


I've
 got
 the
 history
 of
 the
 amusement


park
 and
 I've
 got
 the
 history
 of
 Las


Vegas
 architecture
 and
 I've
 got
 lots
 of


sort
 of
 like
 pop
 culture
 history
 kind
 of


books
 is
 a
 niche
 of
 mine
 that
 I'm
 very


interested
 in.
 It's
 probably
 less


surprising.
 I've
 got
 lots
 of
 music


biographies
 and
 things
 like
 that,
 but
 my


dad
 was
 an
 architect,
 so
 I'm
 kind
 of


interested
 in
 architectural
 history,
 so


I've
 got
 a
 bit
 of
 that.
 I've
 also
 got


quite
 a
 lot
 of
 um
 manga
 because
 my
 son's


got
 me
 into
 manga.
 Very
 cool.


>> So,
 that
 might
 be
 surprising.


>> Matt,
 what
 is
 your
 favorite
 book
 that


you
 think
 no
 one
 else
 has
 heard
 of?


>> I'm
 going
 to
 choose
 one
 called
 Paris


Trance
 by
 uh
 Jeff
 Dyier.
 Not
 much


happens
 apart
 from
 four
 young
 people.
 I


think
 Americans
 and
 British
 and
 French


are
 in
 Paris
 hanging
 out
 together,
 going


clubbing
 together,
 chatting
 together.


It's
 very
 90s.
 It
 absolutely
 summed
 up


my
 sort
 of
 life
 at
 that
 point
 in
 time.


It
 just
 captures
 Paris.
 It
 captur


There's
 a
 lot
 of
 talk
 about
 jazz
 in
 it


and
 there's
 lots
 of
 conversations.
 It's


if
 someone
 wanted
 to
 capture
 that
 sort


of
 youth
 era
 ' 90s
 and
 get
 a
 flavor
 for


it,


>> there's
 a
 lot
 of
 places
 to
 go,
 but
 I


think
 Paris
 Trance
 would
 be
 it.
 So
 that


was
 a
 novel
 I
 read
 at
 a
 time
 when
 I
 was


hardly
 reading
 anything
 and
 it
 got


through
 and
 not
 many
 people
 I
 don't


think
 know
 of
 it
 even
 if
 they've
 heard


of
 Jeff
 Dyier.
 So
 I'd
 say
 Paris
 Trance.


>> That
 is
 a
 great
 recommendation.
 Jeff


Dyer
 is
 just
 one
 of
 the
 most
 diverse


authors
 there
 is.
 Uh
 he's
 written
 so


many
 books
 that
 are
 sort
 of
 all


different.
 Okay.
 Matt,
 what
 is
 the
 best


book
 that
 you
 have
 ever
 received
 as
 a


gift?


>> Best
 book
 I've
 ever
 received
 as
 a
 gift.


I've
 got
 it
 here.
 For
 those
 who
 can


actually
 see
 this,
 I
 am
 holding
 up
 a
 uh


Alice's
 Adventures
 in
 Wonderland
 from


the
 19th
 century,
 but
 not
 a
 first


edition.
 Alas,
 it
 is
 possibly
 a
 third
 or


fourth
 or
 fifth
 edition,
 but
 it's
 from


like
 1890.


Um,
 so
 it's
 probably
 near


over
 two
 decades
 after
 it
 was
 published.


Um,
 and
 but
 this
 is
 from
 um
 my


grandmother
 on
 my
 dad's
 side
 and
 um
 it


was
 from
 her
 grandmother.
 So,
 it's
 the


closest
 thing
 I've
 got
 to
 a
 family


heirloom
 and
 it
 is
 through
 the
 looking


glass
 and
 his
 adventures.


>> Okay.
 Make
 sure
 you
 don't
 lose
 that
 one.


Matt,
 what
 books
 do
 you
 find
 yourself


returning
 to
 time
 and
 again?


>> I
 would
 say
 two
 different
 ones.
 I
 would


say
 Invisible
 Cities
 by
 Italo
 Calvino,


which
 is
 basically
 every
 page
 is
 a


different
 city
 and
 it's
 an
 imagined


city.
 They're
 fantastical
 cities.
 Um,


the
 actual
 setup
 is
 Marco
 Polo
 talking


to
 Kubla
 Khan
 about
 his
 travels,
 but


essentially
 he's
 just
 talking
 about


Venice
 and
 they're
 all
 imaginary


fantastical
 versions
 of
 Venice.
 So
 you


can
 sort
 of
 open
 it
 up
 on
 any
 page
 and


disappear
 into
 a
 fantastical
 city.
 So


it's
 like
 a
 travel
 book
 for
 the


imagination.
 I
 love
 that.
 And
 it's
 very


rereadable
 because
 it's
 not
 really
 a


book
 with
 a
 story.
 You
 can
 sort
 of
 pick


it
 up
 anywhere.
 I'd
 also
 say,
 you
 know,


lots
 of
 children's
 books,
 but
 I'll
 go


with
 um
 Winnie
 the
 Pooh
 or
 the
 House
 of


Pooh
 Corner
 because
 I
 think
 you
 read
 it


as
 a
 child
 and
 you're
 just
 enjoying
 the


adventures
 and
 then
 you
 read
 it
 as
 an


adult
 and
 you
 see
 all
 these
 hidden


depths
 and
 I'm
 fascinated
 by
 a
 mil
 and


the
 fact
 that
 he
 had
 a
 very
 sort
 of


troubled
 life.
 He
 probably
 had
 what
 we


would
 call
 PTSD,
 you
 know,
 shell
 shock


from
 the
 war
 and
 he'd
 created
 the
 world


of
 100
 Acre
 Wood
 to
 sort
 of
 retreat
 into


that.
 So,
 it's
 incred.


And
 it's
 got
 a
 lot
 of
 wisdom.
 And
 I
 also


like
 the
 fact
 that
 each
 character
 is
 a


kind
 of
 now
 looking
 at
 a
 21st
 century


lens
 is
 this
 kind
 of
 mental
 health


archetype.
 You've
 got
 anxiety
 with


Piglet.
 You've
 got
 depression
 with


Eeyore.
 You've
 got
 the
 sort
 of


neurodeiversity
 coming
 in
 with
 like


Kanger
 and
 um
 Tigers
 ADHD.
 So
 you
 you


you
 can
 see
 in
 so
 many
 different
 lights


and
 in
 in
 philosophical
 terms
 as
 well.


So
 I'd
 say
 Winnie
 the
 Poo
 is
 a
 good
 one


to
 go
 back
 to
 as
 well.
</details>

### Jen Harland 的推荐：暖心奇幻文学

《纽约时报》书评编辑 Jen Harland 推荐了几本与 Matt Haig 作品风格相似的图书，这些作品共同的特点是：**暖心**（heartwarming）、**肯定生命**（life-affirming），并带有**推测性元素**（speculative element），即轻度的奇幻色彩，涉及时间、空间或进入其他人生维度的“传送门”，但并非完全的奇幻文学。

Jen Harland 推荐的书籍包括：
*   **V.E. Schwab 的《阿迪·拉鲁的隐形人生》**（The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue）：一个在18世纪法国的年轻女子与魔鬼交易，获得永生但被所有人遗忘。直到21世纪，她遇到一个能记住她的人。这本书探讨了**人类连接**（human connection）的价值。
*   **Nicole Krauss 的《爱史》**（The History of Love）：讲述了一位大屠杀幸存者 Leo Gerski 和一位14岁女孩 Alma 的故事，交织着失去、悲伤以及不同形式的爱——浪漫之爱、亲子之爱和友情。书中角色深刻而生动，展现了如何在失落中寻找意义。Leo 害怕被遗忘，甚至去做人体模特，只为“被看见”。
*   **T.J. Klune 的《我们燃烧得如此明亮》**（We Burned So Bright）：一部关于地球面临黑洞末日的科幻公路小说。一对已婚数十载的七旬老夫踏上旅程，沿途遇到各种面对末日采取不同态度的人，有享乐主义者、阴暗杀手，也有展现**人类善意**（incredible kindness）的人。这本书虽悲伤，却也温柔地展现了人性的复杂——自私与慷慨并存。
*   **Ashley Poston 的《一本小说爱情故事》**（A Novel Love Story）：一个刚被抛弃的女子，意外进入了她最喜欢的**浪漫小说系列**（cozy romance books series）的世界。她在其中看到了那些“幸福结局”后的生活，并与一个不在书中的书店老板安德斯（Anders）发展出一段关系。故事探讨了**悲伤与疗愈**（grief and healing）以及真实生活中爱与幸福的复杂性。Ashley Poston 的另一本新书**《某日的秘密花园》**（The Someday Garden）也带有类似的**轻魔幻现实主义**（light magical realism）色彩，讲述一个拥有神秘历史的庄园花园的故事。

<details>
<summary>Original English Source</summary>

>> I
believe
 it's
 celebrating
 its
 100th


there's
 a
 100th
 anniversary
 this
 year.


>> Yes,
 it
 is.
 There's
 been
 lots
 of
 sort
 of


uh
 celebrations
 on
 BBC
 radio
 and
 things,


but
 yes,
 I
 think
 so.
 But
 I
 think
 the


original
 bear,
 isn't
 the
 original
 bear


in
 New
 York?


>> Yeah.
 The
 the
 Queen
 of
 England
 is


visiting
 New
 York
 next
 week,
 I
 believe,


and
 it's
 possibly
 going
 to
 pass
 by
 the


New
 York
 Public
 Library.


>> Oh.
 And
 put
 it
 in
 a
 handbag
 and
 take
 it


back.


>> Maybe
 going
 to
 steal
 it.
 This
 is
 going


to
 be
 an
 Oceans
 11
 type
 heist.


>> [music]


>> It
 turns
 out
 the
 queen
 did
 not
 steal
 the


bear.
 Instead,
 she
 brought
 with
 her
 a


replica
 [music]
 of
 the
 original
 Little


Rue,
 Pooh
 Bear's
 smallest
 friend,
 and


put
 to
 rest
 the
 question
 of
 whether
 a


Milan's
 original
 stuffed
 animals
 [music]


would
 return
 to
 their
 homeland.
 Pooh,


Piglet,
 Tiger,
 Eeyore,
 KGA,
 and
 now
 Ru


[music]
 are
 on
 permanent
 display
 at
 the


New
 York
 Public
 Library.


Coming
 up
 next,
 my
 colleague
 Jen
 Harland


has
 some
 recommendations
 [music]


for
 your
 reading
 list,
 especially
 if
 you


like
 books
 by
 Matt
 Hey.


[music]


Okay.
 Jen
 Harland.
 Hello.


>> Hello.


>> Hi.
 I
 asked
 you
 to
 come
 on
 the
 show


because
 you're
 one
 of
 the
 editors
 at
 the


book
 review
 who
 is
 particularly
 good
 at


recommending
 books
 to
 people.
 We
 tell


you
 what
 we're
 looking
 for,
 what
 we've


liked,
 what
 we've
 read
 recently,
 and


then
 you
 say,
 "How
 about
 these?"


>> It
 is
 my
 favorite
 game
 both
 at
 work
 and


outside
 of
 work.


>> Uh,
 you're
 perfectly
 matched
 here.
 I'd


love
 to
 hear
 your
 thoughts
 on
 some
 books


to
 read
 that
 are
 similar
 to
 the
 work
 of


Matt
 Hey.


>> So,
 I
 think
 when
 people
 talk
 about
 Matt


Hag's
 books,
 there
 are
 few
 things
 that


really
 draw
 the
 fans
 of
 those
 books
 to


them.
 They
 are
 lifeaffirming.
 They're


heartwarming.
 They
 have
 some
 sort
 of


like
 inherent
 tenderness
 at
 their
 core


and
 also
 maybe
 have
 a
 little
 bit
 of
 a


speculative
 element.
 Not
 full-blown


fantasy,
 but
 there's
 something
 funky


going
 on
 with
 time
 or
 space
 or
 portals


into
 other
 parts
 of
 your
 life.
 Um,
 and


so
 those
 are
 sort
 of
 the
 things
 that
 I'm


thinking
 about
 with
 these
 uh
 books
 that


I'm
 going
 to
 talk
 to
 you
 about
 today.


The
 first
 of
 which
 is
 The
 Invisible
 Life


of
 Addie
 Laroo
 by
 VE
 Schwab,
 who
 is


predominantly
 a
 fantasy
 writer.
 She's


also
 written
 some
 sci-fi.
 She
 had
 a
 book


about
 vampires
 last
 year.
 She's
 written


about
 superheroes.
 She's
 written
 about


wizards.
 Addy
 Laroo
 is,
 I
 would
 say,


probably
 the
 least
 heavy
 fantasy
 of
 her


books.
 So
 again,
 if
 you
 like
 that
 sort


of
 like
 light
 touch
 of
 magic
 that
 a
 Matt


Hey
 book
 brings,
 but
 you
 don't
 want
 to


learn
 any
 10
 syllable
 names
 or
 encounter


any
 dragons,
 don't
 worry,
 there's
 not


going
 to
 be
 any
 of
 that
 here.


>> Noted.


>> Um,
 so
 Addie
 is
 a
 young
 woman
 living
 in


the
 early
 1700s
 in
 France.
 Very
 unhappy


with
 her
 circumstances.
 She's
 being


forced
 into
 a
 marriage
 she
 doesn't
 want


to
 be
 in.
 and
 she
 essentially
 makes
 a


deal
 with
 the
 devil,
 who
 in
 this
 case
 is


a
 god
 of
 the
 night,
 who
 she
 names
 Luke.


And
 the
 bargain,
 you
 know,
 a
 classic
 god


demon
 name.


>> I
 don't
 know
 why
 that
 name
 strikes
 me
 as


so
 funny
 in
 this
 context,
 but
 it
 does.


>> Um,
 and
 so
 Luke
 offers
 her
 a
 deal.
 She


can
 live
 forever.
 She
 can
 live
 all
 of


the
 different
 lives
 she
 wants
 to
 live.


She
 doesn't
 have
 to
 be
 confined
 to
 her


circumstances,
 but
 everyone
 she
 meets


will
 immediately
 forget
 her.
 So,
 she


agrees
 to
 this
 and
 essentially
 spends


centuries
 moving
 through
 the
 world
 like


a
 ghost.
 She
 has
 these
 little
 touches
 of


influence
 on
 people's
 lives.
 She


inspires
 art.
 She
 inspires
 music,
 but


isn't
 able
 to
 make
 any
 sort
 of
 lasting


human
 connection.
 And
 then
 one
 day
 in


the
 21st
 century,
 she
 stumbles
 into
 this


used
 bookstore
 in
 New
 York
 City
 owned
 by


this
 guy
 named
 Henry
 who
 sees
 her
 and


remembers
 her.
 Um,
 she's
 not
 really
 sure


what
 is
 going
 on
 there.
 This
 has
 never


happened
 to
 her
 in
 centuries
 of
 life.


>> And
 it
 turns
 out
 that
 he
 has
 made
 his


own
 bargain
 with
 Luke.
 um
 he
 had
 gone


through
 some
 disappointments
 including
 a


proposal
 that
 did
 not
 go
 well.
 It
 was


been
 in
 was
 in
 a
 very
 dark
 place.
 Didn't


feel
 like
 he
 had
 a
 reason
 to
 go
 on


living.
 And
 so
 he
 made
 this
 deal
 with


Luke
 that
 whenever
 people
 see
 him,
 they


see
 what
 they
 desire
 most,
 which
 in


Add's
 case
 is
 to
 be
 recognized
 and


remembered.
 They're
 sort
 of
 this
 like


perfect
 these
 two
 perfect
 puzzle
 pieces


who
 fit
 together.


>> There's
 a
 a
 lot
 of
 the
 Midnight
 Library


in
 here.


>> Yes.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Definitely.


you're
 again
 that
 sort
 of
 like
 touch
 of


something
 supernatural
 but
 not
 really
 in


this
 idea
 of
 like
 finding
 your
 your


puzzle
 piece
 and
 also
 about
 like
 what


are
 the
 things
 that
 make
 life
 worth


living.
 The
 other
 catch
 with
 Henry
 is


that
 he
 turns
 out
 he
 has
 a
 very
 short


amount
 of
 time
 left
 to
 live.
 And
 so
 he


and
 Addie
 end
 up
 in
 this
 race
 sort
 of
 to


try
 and


>> save
 his
 life
 to
 maybe
 try
 and
 get


freedom
 for
 themselves
 out
 of
 this


bargain.
 It's
 this
 magical
 story
 about


human
 connection
 and
 what
 you
 would
 do


for
 someone
 who
 you
 love.
 Tell
 us
 about


another
 book
 that
 you
 feel
 like
 you


would
 recommend
 to
 people
 who
 are


looking
 for
 those
 those
 sweet
 sweet


Hague
 vibes.


>> Yes.
 Uh
 another
 very
 hesque
 uh
 book


which
 is
 a
 term


>> a
 haggarfic
 novel.


>> Maybe
 we'll
 we'll
 stick
 we'll
 keep


workshopping
 it.
 [laughter]


This
 is
 one
 of
 my
 all-time
 favorite


books
 and
 one
 of the
 books
 I
 recommend


to
 everyone
 I
 know
 which
 is
 the
 history


of
 love
 by
 Nicole
 Krauss.
 Um
 this
 book


came
 out
 in
 2005.
 Um,
 I
 think
 some
 of


the
 hardest
 characters
 to
 get
 right
 in


literature
 are
 often
 children
 and
 old


people.
 They
 can
 be
 very
 one
 note.
 And


this
 book
 has
 two
 unforgettable


narrators,
 one
 of
 whom
 is
 14,
 one
 of


whom
 is
 in
 his
 80s,
 I
 believe,
 uh,
 an


older
 man,
 and
 both
 of
 whom
 are
 so


memorable
 and
 so
 lively
 and
 wonderful.


You
 have
 Leo
 Gerski,
 who
 is
 a
 Holocaust


survivor.
 He
 was
 a
 locksmith
 for
 most
 of


his
 life
 and
 has
 lived
 in
 New
 York.
 um


and
 is
 also
 a
 writer
 who
 wrote
 this


amazing
 book
 called
 The
 History
 of
 Love.


Um
 which
 was
 inspired
 by
 this
 woman
 Elma


who
 was
 the
 love
 of
 his
 life.
 And
 though


they
 both
 survived
 the
 war,
 they
 lost


each
 other
 in
 that
 process.
 And
 he's


basically
 spent
 his
 whole
 life
 having


lost
 the
 love
 of
 his
 life
 and
 tried
 to


figure
 out
 how
 does
 he
 move
 forward?
 How


does
 he
 build
 a
 meaningful
 life
 um
 even


despite
 that
 loss?
 So
 something
 that
 uh


I
 think
 has
 a
 shares
 some
 parallels
 with


the
 the
 midnight
 train
 especially.
 Um
 he


is
 kind
 of
 a
 hoarder.
 He
 lives
 in
 this


apartment
 that
 like
 that's
 full
 of
 piles


and
 stuff
 and
 has
 this
 big
 fear
 of


>> dying
 one
 of
 those
 horrible
 New
 York


deaths
 where
 uh
 it'll
 take
 several
 days


before
 the
 smell
 brings
 people
 to
 the


apartment.
 He's
 afraid
 of
 being


forgotten
 and
 disappearing.
 So
 he
 takes


a
 job
 as
 a
 nude
 model
 for
 a
 figure


drawing
 class
 so
 that
 at
 least
 for
 an


hour
 a
 week
 he
 will
 be
 seen
 by
 people.


>> I
 did
 not
 expect
 that.
 maybe
 an
 extreme


reaction
 to
 that
 scenario.
 Um,
 and
 he


also
 has
 this
 really
 beautiful


friendship
 with
 Bruno,
 who
 was
 his


neighbor
 back
 in
 Poland,
 um,
 who
 he


thought
 died
 in
 the
 war.
 They
 didn't
 see


each
 other.
 And
 then
 there's
 this


amazing
 moment
 where
 they
 run
 into
 each


other
 outside
 a
 grocery
 store
 in
 New


York
 and
 rekindle
 their
 friendship.


Bruno
 moves
 into
 this
 building
 and


they've
 developed
 this
 kind
 of
 Morse


code
 where
 they
 tap
 on
 the
 radiator
 to


check
 in
 on
 the
 other
 person,
 make
 sure


that
 they're
 alive.
 So,
 that's
 one


story.
 And
 then
 you
 have
 Alma
 who
 is
 14.


Her
 dad
 has
 died
 of
 pancreatic
 cancer


and
 she
 is
 a
 very
 precocious,
 very
 smart


girl,
 but
 trying
 to
 sort
 of
 hold
 her


family
 together.
 Her
 mom
 is
 a
 translator


who
 has
 never
 really
 moved
 on
 from
 this


loss
 and
 Elma
 decides
 that
 she's
 going


to
 make
 it
 her
 mission
 to
 try
 and
 find


her
 mom
 love
 again.
 Um
 there's
 a
 mystery


at
 the
 heart
 of
 this
 book
 about
 the
 a


novel
 called
 the
 history
 of
 love
 that


kind
 of
 pops
 up
 in
 different
 places
 but


it's
 really
 um
 about
 again
 about
 like


loss
 and
 grief
 but
 also
 the
 different


kinds
 of
 love
 um
 that
 can
 fill
 our
 lives


not
 just
 romantic
 love
 but
 also
 love


between
 parents
 and
 children
 and
 friends


um
 and
 all
 those
 again
 those
 little


wonderful
 little
 things
 that
 make
 life


worth
 living.
 We
 talked
 about
 V
 E


Schwab.
 Now
 I
 think
 we
 should
 move
 to


another
 recommendation
 by
 TJ
 Cloon.


>> Another
 one
 of
 my
 my
 favorites
 from
 the


fantasy
 sci-fi
 world.


>> Yeah.
 What's
 up
 with
 the
 initials
 here?


Tell
 me
 about
 TJ
 Cloon.


>> Um
 so
 TJ
 Cloon
 whenever
 if
 someone
 asks


me
 like
 I
 want
 a
 comfort
 read.
 I
 want
 a


book
 that's
 going
 to
 like
 make
 my
 give


me
 that
 like
 warm,
 happy
 heart
 feeling.


TJ
 Cloon
 is
 one
 of
 the
 first
 people
 I


think
 of.
 Um,
 and
 I
 love
 a
 lot
 of
 his


books,
 but
 I'm
 actually
 going
 to
 talk


about
 his
 newest
 one,
 which
 just
 came


out
 in
 April.
 It's
 called
 We
 Burned
 So


Bright.
 It
 is
 a
 little
 bit
 more
 sci-fi


than
 his
 typical
 books.
 It's
 basically


an
 apocalypse
 road
 trip
 novel,
 which
 may


not
 sound
 terribly
 heartwarming
 um,
 off


the
 jump,
 but
 basically
 uh,
 the
 premise


of
 the
 book
 is
 there's
 a
 black
 hole


that's
 headed
 towards
 Earth.
 We've
 tried


everything.
 There's
 no
 solution,
 and
 so


in
 30
 days,
 the
 world
 is
 going
 to
 end.


we're
 all
 going
 to
 get
 sucked
 into
 a


black
 hole
 and
 burn
 up
 into
 and
 go
 into


the
 ether
 wherever
 people
 go
 after
 the


heat
 death
 of
 the
 universe.
 Um,
 and
 you


have
 Don
 and
 Rodney
 who
 are
 two
 men
 in


their
 70s
 who've
 been
 married
 for


several
 decades
 living
 on
 the
 East
 Coast


and
 they
 decide
 to
 pack
 up
 their
 lives


in
 their
 RV
 and
 drive
 across
 the
 country


because
 there's
 some
 sort
 of
 important


promise
 or
 thing
 that
 they
 feel
 like


they
 have
 to
 do
 um
 before
 the
 world
 ends


and
 they
 and
 everyone
 they
 know
 dies.


And
 so
 you
 spend
 the
 book
 traveling


across
 the
 country
 with
 them
 as
 they're


reflecting
 on
 their
 life
 and


relationships
 and
 the
 sort
 of
 big
 loss


that's
 at
 the
 heart
 of
 their
 story.


You're
 trying
 to
 figure
 out
 as
 the
 book


goes
 along
 what
 it's
 about.
 And
 they


also
 meet
 people
 on
 their
 journey
 who


all
 have
 very
 different
 reactions
 to


knowing
 that
 their
 time
 is
 limited.
 Some


people
 go
 full
 hedenism
 and
 are
 like,


I'm
 going
 to
 do
 all
 of
 the
 drugs
 and


have
 all
 of
 the
 sex
 and
 go
 skinny


dipping
 in
 a
 lake
 every
 night
 and
 who


cares?
 There's
 no
 point
 to
 anything


because
 the
 world
 is
 ending.
 Uh
 some


people
 uh
 go
 in
 a
 really
 dark
 direction


and
 um
 there
 may
 or
 may
 not
 be
 a
 uh


serial
 killer
 who
 is
 convinced
 that


she's
 doing
 people
 a
 favor
 by
 killing


them
 early
 so
 they
 don't
 have
 to


experience
 death
 by
 black
 hole.


>> Oh
 my
 god.
 [laughter]


>> Um
 some
 people
 really
 lean
 into


tribalism.
 Some
 people
 are
 looting.
 And


some
 people
 react
 with
 incredible


kindness
 and
 decide
 that
 they
 want
 to


use
 whatever
 time
 they
 have
 left
 to
 uh


enjoy
 all
 of
 the
 the
 things
 that
 have


made
 humanity
 what
 it
 is.
 Um
 it
 is
 a
 sad


book
 but
 also
 really
 tender
 about
 how


all
 the
 ways
 that
 humans
 can
 be
 both


selfish
 and
 horrible
 but
 also


unexpectedly
 generous
 and
 kind.


>> Yeah.
 Which
 um
 path
 would
 you
 take?


>> [laughter]


>> Um,


I
 think
 there
 would
 maybe
 be
 like
 a
 a


temptation
 to
 go
 in
 the
 like,
 well,
 the


world's
 ending.
 There's
 no
 consequences.


Let's
 do
 whatever
 for
 a
 little
 bit.
 But


then
 I
 think
 ultimately,
 I
 don't
 know.
 I


mean,
 not
 to
 like
 bring
 the
 pandemic


into
 the
 conversation
 again
 in
 2026.
 But


I
 feel
 like
 if
 that
 is
 any
 guide,
 it


would
 be
 like
 I'd
 want
 to
 be
 with
 the


people
 that
 I
 love
 and
 make
 the
 most
 of


of
 that
 time.
 Ideally,
 somewhere


beautiful.


>> Probably
 not.
 As
 much
 as
 I
 love
 New


York,
 I
 think
 I
 would
 want
 to
 get
 away


from
 the
 millions
 here
 if
 the
 world
 is


ending.
 That's
 very
 nice.
 Uh
 tell
 me


about
 uh
 your
 next
 recommendation
 for


people
 who
 are
 looking
 for
 you
 know


something
 a
 little
 Matt
 Hegy
 uh
 a
 novel


love
 story.


>> Yeah.
 So
 I
 um
 as
 followers
 of
 the
 book


review
 may
 have
 heard
 I
 am
 also
 a
 big
 uh


romance
 reader.
 I
 cover
 a
 lot
 of
 romance


and
 I
 think
 the
 reason
 that
 a
 lot
 of


people
 are
 drawn
 to
 romance
 novels
 is


similar
 to
 the
 reason
 why
 people
 are


drawn
 to
 Matt
 Hey
 books.
 Sometimes
 you


you
 want
 to
 know
 that
 you're
 in
 no


matter
 what
 happens
 along
 the
 way
 for
 a


happily
 ever
 after.
 You
 want
 to
 know


that
 things
 are
 going
 to
 work
 out
 okay


and
 the
 like
 joy
 and
 discovery
 comes


from
 figuring
 out
 how
 you
 get
 to
 that


point.
 Um
 Ashley
 Poston
 is
 a
 author
 who


writes
 primarily
 what
 I
 would
 call


paranormal
 romance
 but
 again
 with
 this


sort
 of
 like
 light
 magical
 realism


touch.
 So
 no
 vampires,
 no
 werewolves,


but
 usually
 something
 something
 going
 on


with
 time
 or
 space
 that's
 a
 little
 unmed


from
 reality.
 Mhm.


>> A
 novel
 love
 story
 is
 about
 um
 this


woman
 named
 Elsie
 whose
 life
 has
 kind
 of


fallen
 apart.
 She
 has
 been
 left
 at
 the


altar.
 She's
 depressed.
 She's
 been


really
 living
 for
 this
 trip
 that
 she
 and


her
 friends
 in
 her
 book
 club
 take
 every


year
 where
 they
 have
 a
 weekend
 where


they
 just
 go
 and
 read
 together
 for
 a
 few


days,
 which
 is
 honestly
 like
 maybe
 my


dream
 weekend.


>> That's
 incredible.


>> But
 at
 the
 last
 minute,
 all
 of
 her


friends
 bail
 on
 her.
 And
 so
 she's
 sort


of
 like
 picking
 herself
 up
 by
 her


bootstraps
 and
 is
 like,
 I'm
 going
 to
 go


do
 this
 on
 my
 own.
 um
 drives
 into
 a


storm,
 almost
 runs
 this
 guy
 over,
 and


then
 finds
 herself
 in
 this
 very


charming,
 idllic
 small
 town
 that
 seems


strangely
 familiar.
 And
 she
 uh


eventually
 realizes
 that
 she
 has
 somehow


gone
 through
 some
 sort
 of
 portal
 and
 is


in
 the
 world
 of
 her
 favorite
 cozy


romance
 books
 series.
 [laughter]


So,
 she
 recognizes
 all
 the
 landmarks.


>> It's
 like
 romance,
 Megadun.


>> It's
 Yes.
 Yes.
 Exactly.
 [laughter]


It's
 like
 romance
 on
 romance
 like
 and
 so


uh
 she
 recogniz
 she
 can
 see
 like
 all
 of


her
 favorite
 couples
 whose
 books
 she's


read
 but
 um
 they're
 all
 living
 after


their
 happily
 ever
 afters
 in
 this
 town


and
 this
 is
 not
 a
 Christmas
 carol
 or


it's
 a
 wonderful
 life
 kind
 of
 situation.


She
 is
 actually
 in
 the
 town
 interacting


with
 people
 and
 starts
 to
 have
 these


ripple
 effects
 on
 the
 characters
 and
 on


the
 town.
 And
 there's
 one
 character


there
 who
 she
 cannot
 place
 who
 is
 Anders


who
 is
 the
 very
 grumpy
 owner
 of
 the


bookstore.
 Classic
 romance


>> hero
 trope
 and
 he
 has
 not
 appeared
 in


any
 of
 the
 books.
 Um
 and
 is
 very
 unhappy


with
 the
 way
 that
 she
 is
 disrupting
 the


um
 kind
 of
 homeostasis
 of
 this
 little


pocket
 universe.
 Um,
 but
 the
 more
 she


gets
 to
 know
 him,
 they
 she
 starts
 to


start starts
 to
 figure
 out
 how
 she
 got


to
 the
 town,
 why
 she's
 trapped
 there,


how
 he
 might
 have
 gotten
 there
 and


gotten
 trapped
 there.
 And
 it
 becomes


this
 very
 moving
 and
 like
 tender
 story


about
 again
 like
 grief
 and
 healing
 and


love
 and
 also
 not
 just
 about
 the
 sort
 of


stereotypical
 happy
 ending,
 but
 about


the
 real
 life
 that
 comes
 after
 that,


which
 can
 be
 messy
 and
 complicated,
 but


it
 is
 also
 more
 human
 and
 real
 and


satisfying
 for
 that.
 sounds
 very


charming.


>> It
 is.
 It
 is
 very
 She
 is
 a
 very
 charming


writer.
 And
 if
 you
 like
 her,
 she
 has
 a


new
 book
 um
 coming
 out
 on
 June
 16th


called
 The
 Someday
 Garden,
 which
 is
 a


secret
 garden.
 Again,
 like
 a
 little
 a


very
 teenytiny
 pocket
 universe
 in
 this


case,
 uh
 about
 a
 woman
 who
 moves
 to


Maine
 to
 be
 uh
 the
 sort
 of
 head


groundskeeper


>> at
 this
 nature
 estate
 at
 this
 like


mansion
 with
 all
 these
 beautiful
 gardens


that
 has
 some
 sort
 of
 mystical
 history.


People
 hear
 strange
 rumors
 about
 the


garden.
 You
 can
 hear
 the
 voice
 of
 the


people
 you
 love.
 you
 can
 get
 lost
 in
 the


hedge
 maze
 forever
 and
 end
 up
 somewhere


strange.
 Um,
 and
 she
 stumbles
 upon
 a


secret
 pocket
 garden
 that
 nobody
 else


seems
 to
 know
 about.


>> This
 is
 why
 I
 don't
 like
 gardens.
 Um,


>> can't
 be
 trusted,


>> you
 know.
 Uh,
 Jen,
 thank
 you
 so
 much
 for


coming
 on.
 You
 are
 just
 a
 master


recommener.
 You
 read
 so
 much.
 You
 can


like
 read
 a
 person
 know
 what
 they
 would


like.
 I
 feel
 like
 anyone
 listening
 to


this
 who
 is
 into
 Matt
 Hey
 is
 going
 to


come
 away
 with
 at least
 one
 book
 that


they
 are
 going
 to
 love.
 [music]
 I
 that


is
 my
 sincere
 hope.


>> The
 book
 [music]
 review
 is
 produced
 by


Sarah
 Diamond,
 Amy
 Pearl,
 and
 Patricia


Sulbaran.
 It's
 edited
 by
 Lissa
 Anderson


and
 mixed
 by
 Pedro
 Rosado.
 Original


music
 by
 [music]
 Dan
 Powell
 and
 Alicia


Baichu.
 Special
 thanks
 to
 Dalia
 Hadad.


We
 want
 to
 hear
 what
 you
 think
 about
 the


show,
 so
 [music]
 send
 us
 an
 email
 at
 the


bookreview@nytimes.com.


I'm
 Gilbert
 Cruz.
 Thanks
 for
 listening.
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