--- author: New York Times Podcasts date: '2026-04-24' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=866KTymMojc speaker: New York Times Podcasts tags: - console-pricing - ai-component-costs - geopolitical-factors - gaming-industry-trends - market-analysis title: 任天堂Switch 2：技术成本上涨下的购买时机与市场趋势分析 summary: 本期播客深入探讨了任天堂Switch 2的近期市场表现与未来价格趋势。节目指出，尽管Switch 2定价450美元，但其独特的游戏体验和独占内容使其成为热门选择。节目分析了AI驱动的零部件成本上涨、地缘政治因素以及其他主机价格飙升如何影响Switch 2的定价策略，并建议消费者抓住当前（2026年4月）的捆绑销售优惠，因未来价格可能进一步上涨。同时，还分享了编辑 Arthur Geese 对Switch 2游戏的喜爱，特别是《Poptopia》。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: tech-trends area: tech-engineering project: [] people: [] companies_orgs: - Nintendo - PlayStation - Xbox products_models: - Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Switch 2 - PlayStation 5 - Xbox Series X media_books: [] status: evergreen --- ### Switch 2发布概况与市场反响 欢迎收听《Wire Cutter Show》的特别节目，今天我们将聚焦于备受瞩目的**任天堂Switch 2**。这款作为广受欢迎的便携式游戏主机**第二代**产品，于2025年6月上市，发售价高达450美元。尽管价格不菲，但许多玩家，包括主持人本人，都因其承诺的独占新游戏和创新功能而迅速购入。Switch 2上市仅四个月便售出超过1000万台，成为**美国历史上销售最快的主机**。然而，对于那些仍在观望，犹豫是否购买的玩家，或者希望确认游戏是否改进、价格是否物有所值的人来说，本期节目将提供有价值的见解。本次访谈嘉宾是**Wire Cutter**科技团队的监督编辑**Arthur Geese**，他投入数月时间对Switch 2及其游戏、功能进行了详尽评测，并对是否值得从初代Switch升级给出了明确结论。此外，他还将揭示一个与主机本身无关，但**对您未来购买价格可能产生重大影响**的“时间敏感性”因素。
Original English I'm Kyra Blackwell and you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show. Hi y'all. Today we're going to do a quick bonus episode on the Nintendo Switch 2. This is the second iteration of a really popular portable gaming console that came out in June of 2025 with a whopping price tag of $450. Many jumped right in and bought it right when it dropped, myself included. I was just really excited by the exclusive new games and all the new features that the Switch 2 promised. And yeah, it did sell over 10 million units in 4 months, which makes it the fastest selling console of all time in America. But if you're one of those people who's been putting off buying the new Switch 2, if you're waiting to see if the games actually got better, waiting to feel like the price is worth it, or you're just kind of waiting, this episode might be for you. Arthur Geese, supervising editor on the tech team here at Wire Cutter, has spent months testing the Switch 2, the games, the features, whether it's worth the upgrade from the original, and we do have a full verdict on all of that. But there's also a time-sensitive wrinkle to this conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with the console itself and everything to do with what's happening in the world right now. That's going to have an impact on the price you'd pay if and when you decide to buy the new Switch 2. So, we're going to take a quick break and then when we're back, I'll be here with Arthur on the other side. See you soon. Arthur, welcome. >> Thank you for having me. >> So excited to have you on today. Can we just talk about the basics of video games in general for people who don't know? What is a Nintendo Switch and who's it really good for? A Nintendo Switch is what's sort of referred to as a hybrid video game console, which means in the past, there would be a Nintendo handheld, like a Game Boy or a DS or things like that, and there'd be the console you have at your house, like a GameCube or a Wii. >> And with the Switch, what they've done is basically smash those two things together. So, you can carry it around with you, throw it in your bag, throw it in your purse, and play it wherever you are. And then there's also a dock that accompanies it that you set the game system into and then it shows up on your TV. >> It's a very familyfriendly console for a couple reasons. One, because every Switch and Switch 2 has a pair of Joy-Con on the left and right, which are detachable controllers that serve as individual controls for multiple people. So, every Switch basically has the ability for two people to play it, >> right? And Nintendo has a very earned reputation as a as a pretty family-friendly company with the games they release. Like it is the quintessential fun for the whole family kind of system. >> Yeah. I mean, I grew up with a Nintendo Wii. We played like Wii bowling all the time. It was the game to play. But there are now multiple versions of this console out because it's not a new It's not a new console. It's been out for a while now. There's a Switch Light, there's the OLED, and now there's an older Switch One and this newer Switch 2, which just came out last June. I mean, they're both like they have a hefty price tag, but the Switch One is now a little bit cheaper. So, if somebody isn't a self-proclaimed gamer, but they've been curious about the console, would you recommend they dive right in and just get the Switch 2? >> I I think if you can afford the Switch 2, it's a better option than the Switch One. It's not that different from apps that you've used for a long time on an old phone versus apps that you use all the time on a new phone. Like typically the new phone runs them better and the the breakdown is very similar here. >> It is more expensive and I'm I'm sensitive to people that have like a real price concern there for sure. >> But in addition to playing all of those old Switch games, there's a whole new sort of class of games that are coming out for Switch 2 that will never release for the original Switch. Some fairly big games from Nintendo have come out only on the Switch 2, including, you know, the new Mario Kart game is a Switch 2 exclusive. Donkey Kong Bonanza is a Switch 2 exclusive. More of that will happen this year, >> right? I mean, I had the original Switch One and I did end up upgrading to the Switch 2 and I love it, but I think people might also be wondering like they love their Switch, but it's another thing to spend money on. It sounds like you think that it's worth it to upgrade to the Switch 2 even if you have the Switch one. >> Sure. Yeah. And again, just constantly going back to the if you can afford it thing, being sensitive to that. I think that if you've if you've got the money and you're wondering if you should move from the Switch one to the Switch 2, I think that the answer is generally going to be yes, in part because if you have like this big pile of Switch games that you love, they will be better on a Switch 2. Like, it's just a much better experience in pretty much every way, >> right? And like if you have the money now, chances are it will be cheaper now than it will be in the future to buy a Switch 2. >> Well, let's talk a little bit about that. I want to know why you're predicting that now is probably the best time to buy a Switch 2 versus waiting. >> Sure. The short version is that every other video game console has increased in price significantly in the last year. The PlayStation 5 is $150 more than it started at in 2020 and so is the Xbox Series X. Even when the Switch 2 came out last year, it was sort of announced amidst this tariff situation. Like it literally I went to go play the Switch 2 for the first time on Liberation Day last year and Nintendo had to delay pre-orders for the console because they just didn't know what the situation would be for the system. And I think that that is hung heavy over video game systems in particular over the last year. Now in 2026, in addition to that situation, AI has sort of exploded the cost of the parts that go into video game consoles. What's the correlation there? >> So, everything that you buy electronics wise uses parts that are made from the same materials. So, like the processor in your phone, the processor in your laptop, the processor in a video console, the processor in an AI server, all use the same sort of basic components to be manufactured. And a lot of them are coming from the same places >> and there's a limited amount of that. Imagine everything comes from the same pile of sand and there's only so much sand to go around and AI companies are willing to pay a lot more for that sand than Nintendo or Sega or Sony and Xbox can, >> right? >> And so those prices are being driven up considerably somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 to 40% already in laptops and we're starting to see those prices sort of snowball already now in April when we're recording this. And then there are other additional geopolitical factors that are leading to price problems as well. >> Okay, so I know here at Wire Cutter, we generally want to steer clear from encouraging panic buying of any sort, but >> I mean this console, the Switch 2, is already not cheap. It's $450. Is there a sale going on right now that people can hop on or will there be a sale maybe during popular times like Black Friday that they can expect to get a lower price on the Switch, too? Sure. I'll I'll take those in sort of reverse order. The chances will be that the price on Black Friday will be less than the prices were the day or so before Black Friday. I don't think that the prices will be lower than they are right now. I think that that likelihood is very, very low. There will probably be different bundles, which is what they're offering right now. The Switch 2, like you said, sells by itself for $450. Switch 2 games range from 60 to 80. Yep. Everything is getting more expensive. Uh, and physical games actually on the Switch 2 will start costing more than digital download games in part because of the same things that are driving up the price of the console. >> So good. >> Um, everything is great. We're doing awesome. And so currently you can get a Switch 2 with Mario Kart World for $500, which is $30 less than you'd pay for just the Switch 2 and just Mario Kart World separately. >> Mhm. >> To coincide with the release of the Mario Galaxy movie that just came out a couple weeks ago. There's a new bundle on sale that includes Super Mario Galaxy 1 and Super Mario Galaxy 2 as remastered for the Switch 2, which are both considered pretty good games. That bundle is 500. The game by itself is 70. So you're saving about $20. That's probably going to be the best prices that you see on the system for the foreseeable future. >> Do you think for the people who still want to wait, given your advice that now might be the cheapest time to buy, do you think that there is going to be a warning sign before the price jumps? >> I I mean, I think that the warning signs are already here. >> The alarm bells have been ringing. Nintendo has been asked repeatedly at their their investor calls and and press interviews whether or not they would increase the price of the Switch 2 and they were adamant that they would not for their fiscal year which just ended. >> And we saw similar comments from PlayStation at the end of last year as prices on their components were starting to go up that they weren't planning on raising the prices until very suddenly they did. Chances are there will be probably a 2 to 3 week delay between when the decision is made and when it happens and that will be sort of your last chance to to get in on that lower price. >> Wow. Okay. So, it really does sound like if you've been thinking about it, you may as well just buy one now. And, you know, worst case scenario, there's probably somebody else who's willing to buy that switch to off of you if you really regret the purchase later. >> Sure. I mean, maybe you could even make like a $50 profit or something selling it to someone else down the line, I guess, if you really wanted to. >> Yeah. I mean, it's all up. >> Yeah. >> So, Arthur, my final question for you is, what's your favorite game to play on your Switch? >> You know, I I play a lot of games, so I've hopped a little bit from game to game. I'm not a big Mario Kart guy. I'm like always annoyed by that blue shell. Donkey Kong Bonanza was great. It's a great game. It's got a lot of personality. It's just really fun. And I think there's a simplicity to sort of like smashing the world around you that I think can appeal to players of all ages. The Switch 2 game that I put the most time into, amusingly enough, is something called Poptopia, which just came out. >> I love Popia. >> Popia is a Pokémon themed game where you play as a Ditto, which is a funny little Pokemon that can do things that other Pokémon do, trying to recover a strangely post-apocalyptic Pokemon world, and try to get Pokémon friends to come back and figure out where all the people went. And it's very much Minecraft inspired, Animal Crossing inspired, and it sold just a phenomenally large amount of copies when it came out about a month ago. >> I mean, yeah, I get it. I don't like Minecraft or Pokémon or Animal Crossing, but I vlogged probably 80 hours on Popia so far. >> Yeah, that's impressive. >> Arthur Geese, supervising editor on the tech team. Thank you so much for joining us today. >> Happy to be here. Thanks so much for having me. As always, we will link to the products we talked about today in the show notes. And if you want to learn more about Wire Cutters coverage on gaming consoles, go to our website. You can also find guides to our writer's favorite games for the Switch and Switch 2. That's it for us. Until next week, thank you so much for listening. Bye.
### 理解任天堂Switch生态系统 那么，**任天堂Switch**究竟是什么？它被称作**混合型游戏主机**，这意味着它打破了过去家用主机与掌机分离的模式。过去，玩家需要一台固定在家中的主机（如GameCube或Wii）和一台便携式掌机（如Game Boy或DS）。而Switch将两者合二为一，玩家既可以随身携带，放入背包或手提包中，在任何地方游玩，也可以将其插入底座，连接到电视上，享受大屏体验。Switch主机本身也十分**适合家庭娱乐**。一方面，每台Switch（包括Switch 2）都配有一对可拆卸的**Joy-Con**控制器，它们既可作为独立手柄，也能让多人同时游玩。这使得几乎每一台Switch都能轻松支持两人游戏。另一方面，任天堂以其**注重家庭友好的游戏而闻名**，发布的游戏内容通常适合全年龄段玩家，是名副其实的“全家共享的快乐系统”。 目前市面上有**多种Switch版本**，包括Switch Light、OLED版本，以及较早的Switch One和刚刚在2025年6月推出的新款Switch 2。尽管它们都有不菲的价格，但Switch One目前已有所降价。对于那些并非资深玩家但对Switch感到好奇的人，Arthur Geese推荐，如果预算允许，**Switch 2是优于Switch One的选择**。他将其比作新旧手机的App运行体验：新手机通常能更流畅地运行App。Switch 2提供了类似的性能提升。尽管Switch 2价格更高，但除了能玩所有旧款Switch游戏外，它还将拥有**一系列Switch 2独占的新游戏**，这些游戏将永远不会登陆初代Switch。例如，新款《马力欧赛车》和《咚咚刚！大游行》（Donkey Kong Bonanza）都已成为Switch 2独占。
Original English >> Thank you for having me. >> So excited to have you on today. Can we just talk about the basics of video games in general for people who don't know? What is a Nintendo Switch and who's it really good for? A Nintendo Switch is what's sort of referred to as a hybrid video game console, which means in the past, there would be a Nintendo handheld, like a Game Boy or a DS or things like that, and there'd be the console you have at your house, like a GameCube or a Wii. >> And with the Switch, what they've done is basically smash those two things together. So, you can carry it around with you, throw it in your bag, throw it in your purse, and play it wherever you are. And then there's also a dock that accompanies it that you set the game system into and then it shows up on your TV. >> It's a very familyfriendly console for a couple reasons. One, because every Switch and Switch 2 has a pair of Joy-Con on the left and right, which are detachable controllers that serve as individual controls for multiple people. So, every Switch basically has the ability for two people to play it, >> right? And Nintendo has a very earned reputation as a as a pretty family-friendly company with the games they release. Like it is the quintessential fun for the whole family kind of system. >> Yeah. I mean, I grew up with a Nintendo Wii. We played like Wii bowling all the time. It was the game to play. But there are now multiple versions of this console out because it's not a new It's not a new console. It's been out for a while now. There's a Switch Light, there's the OLED, and now there's an older Switch One and this newer Switch 2, which just came out last June. I mean, they're both like they have a hefty price tag, but the Switch One is now a little bit cheaper. So, if somebody isn't a self-proclaimed gamer, but they've been curious about the console, would you recommend they dive right in and just get the Switch 2? >> I I think if you can afford the Switch 2, it's a better option than the Switch One. It's not that different from apps that you've used for a long time on an old phone versus apps that you use all the time on a new phone. Like typically the new phone runs them better and the the breakdown is very similar here. >> It is more expensive and I'm I'm sensitive to people that have like a real price concern there for sure. >> But in addition to playing all of those old Switch games, there's a whole new sort of class of games that are coming out for Switch 2 that will never release for the original Switch. Some fairly big games from Nintendo have come out only on the Switch 2, including, you know, the new Mario Kart game is a Switch 2 exclusive. Donkey Kong Bonanza is a Switch 2 exclusive. More of that will happen this year, >> right? I mean, I had the original Switch One and I did end up upgrading to the Switch 2 and I love it, but I think people might also be wondering like they love their Switch, but it's another thing to spend money on. It sounds like you think that it's worth it to upgrade to the Switch 2 even if you have the Switch one. >> Sure. Yeah. And again, just constantly going back to the if you can afford it thing, being sensitive to that. I think that if you've if you've got the money and you're wondering if you should move from the Switch one to the Switch 2, I think that the answer is generally going to be yes, in part because if you have like this big pile of Switch games that you love, they will be better on a Switch 2. Like, it's just a much better experience in pretty much every way, >> right? And like if you have the money now, chances are it will be cheaper now than it will be in the future to buy a Switch 2.
### 主机价格飙升：AI、芯片与地缘政治的交织影响 回顾过去一年，**索尼的PlayStation 5**和**微软的Xbox Series X**等其他主流游戏主机价格均出现显著上涨，PS5比2020年初的价格高出150美元。即使在Switch 2去年发布之际，它也恰逢**关税调整**的复杂局面。当时，由于不确定具体情况，**任天堂**不得不推迟Switch 2的预购。这种外部环境的压力在过去一年中一直笼罩着游戏主机市场。 进入2026年，情况更为复杂：**人工智能（AI）的爆发式增长**正在推高电子产品零部件的成本。这是因为，无论是手机、笔记本电脑、游戏主机还是AI服务器，其核心处理器都依赖于**相同的基本组件**。这些关键组件的制造和供应量是有限的，正如“沙子”的比喻——所有电子产品都源于同样的原材料，但供应量有限。目前，AI公司因其巨大的需求和支付能力，正**以更高的价格抢购这些零部件**，这导致了成本的大幅上升。据观察，**笔记本电脑的价格已上涨了30%至40%**，并且这种价格上涨效应正开始蔓延。此外，**其他地缘政治因素**也在加剧价格上涨的压力。
Original English >> Well, let's talk a little bit about that. I want to know why you're predicting that now is probably the best time to buy a Switch 2 versus waiting. >> Sure. The short version is that every other video game console has increased in price significantly in the last year. The PlayStation 5 is $150 more than it started at in 2020 and so is the Xbox Series X. Even when the Switch 2 came out last year, it was sort of announced amidst this tariff situation. Like it literally I went to go play the Switch 2 for the first time on Liberation Day last year and Nintendo had to delay pre-orders for the console because they just didn't know what the situation would be for the system. And I think that that is hung heavy over video game systems in particular over the last year. Now in 2026, in addition to that situation, AI has sort of exploded the cost of the parts that go into video game consoles. What's the correlation there? >> So, everything that you buy electronics wise uses parts that are made from the same materials. So, like the processor in your phone, the processor in your laptop, the processor in a video console, the processor in an AI server, all use the same sort of basic components to be manufactured. And a lot of them are coming from the same places >> and there's a limited amount of that. Imagine everything comes from the same pile of sand and there's only so much sand to go around and AI companies are willing to pay a lot more for that sand than Nintendo or Sega or Sony and Xbox can, >> right? >> And so those prices are being driven up considerably somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 to 40% already in laptops and we're starting to see those prices sort of snowball already now in April when we're recording this. And then there are other additional geopolitical factors that are leading to price problems as well.
### 购买建议：把握时机，规避未来涨价风险 尽管**Wire Cutter**通常不鼓励**冲动性购买**，但鉴于当前的**价格上涨趋势**，主持人建议，如果您一直在考虑购买Switch 2，现在可能是**最佳入手时机**。Switch 2本身定价450美元，已经不便宜。预计**黑色星期五**等促销时期的价格**可能不会低于当前价格**，甚至可能仅提供不同**游戏捆绑包**。 目前，您可以通过以下两种捆绑方式购买Switch 2，它们提供了比单独购买更优惠的价格： * **Switch 2 +《马力欧赛车世界》（Mario Kart World）**：售价500美元，比单独购买节省30美元。此捆绑包与近期上映的《马力欧银河》电影同期推出。 * **Switch 2 +《超级马力欧银河》1 & 2 (重制版)**：售价500美元，比单独购买节省约20美元。这两款游戏都被认为是经典的Switch 2佳作。 Arthur Geese预测，这些捆绑包很可能代表了**未来可预见的最优惠价格**。关于价格跳涨的**警告信号**已经显现。尽管任天堂此前曾坚称在其财政年度内不会涨价，但历史经验表明，如**PlayStation**曾有过在元件成本上升时，先表示不涨价后突然提高价格的情况。因此，**价格调整的决策宣布后，通常会有2到3周的窗口期**，这是抓住当前较低价格的最后机会。
Original English >> Okay, so I know here at Wire Cutter, we generally want to steer clear from encouraging panic buying of any sort, but >> I mean this console, the Switch 2, is already not cheap. It's $450. Is there a sale going on right now that people can hop on or will there be a sale maybe during popular times like Black Friday that they can expect to get a lower price on the Switch, too? Sure. I'll I'll take those in sort of reverse order. The chances will be that the price on Black Friday will be less than the prices were the day or so before Black Friday. I don't think that the prices will be lower than they are right now. I think that that likelihood is very, very low. There will probably be different bundles, which is what they're offering right now. The Switch 2, like you said, sells by itself for $450. Switch 2 games range from 60 to 80. Yep. Everything is getting more expensive. Uh, and physical games actually on the Switch 2 will start costing more than digital download games in part because of the same things that are driving up the price of the console. >> So good. >> Um, everything is great. We're doing awesome. And so currently you can get a Switch 2 with Mario Kart World for $500, which is $30 less than you'd pay for just the Switch 2 and just Mario Kart World separately. >> Mhm. >> To coincide with the release of the Mario Galaxy movie that just came out a couple weeks ago. There's a new bundle on sale that includes Super Mario Galaxy 1 and Super Mario Galaxy 2 as remastered for the Switch 2, which are both considered pretty good games. That bundle is 500. The game by itself is 70. So you're saving about $20. That's probably going to be the best prices that you see on the system for the foreseeable future. >> Do you think for the people who still want to wait, given your advice that now might be the cheapest time to buy, do you think that there is going to be a warning sign before the price jumps? >> I I mean, I think that the warning signs are already here. >> The alarm bells have been ringing. Nintendo has been asked repeatedly at their their investor calls and and press interviews whether or not they would increase the price of the Switch 2 and they were adamant that they would not for their fiscal year which just ended. >> And we saw similar comments from PlayStation at the end of last year as prices on their components were starting to go up that they weren't planning on raising the prices until very suddenly they did. Chances are there will be probably a 2 to 3 week delay between when the decision is made and when it happens and that will be sort of your last chance to to get in on that lower price. >> Wow. Okay. So, it really does sound like if you've been thinking about it, you may as well just buy one now. And, you know, worst case scenario, there's probably somebody else who's willing to buy that switch to off of you if you really regret the purchase later. >> Sure. I mean, maybe you could even make like a $50 profit or something selling it to someone else down the line, I guess, if you really wanted to. >> Yeah. I mean, it's all up. >> Yeah.
### 游戏推荐与节目收尾 关于Arthur Geese个人最喜欢的游戏，他坦言自己玩过许多游戏，可能有些“三心二意”。他表示自己并非**《马力欧赛车》**的忠实玩家，尤其“**厌烦那个蓝壳（Blue Shell）**”。他认为**《咚咚刚！大游行》（Donkey Kong Bonanza）**是一款很棒的游戏，充满“**个性**”，玩法“**非常有趣**”，并且其“**砸烂周围世界**”的简单机制能吸引所有年龄段的玩家。 然而，若论在Switch 2上投入时间最多的游戏，Arthur Geese提名了近期发布的**《Poptopia》**。这款游戏以**宝可梦（Pokémon）为主题**，玩家扮演的是一只名叫**Ditto**的有趣小宝可梦。游戏设定在一个**略显怪诞的后末日宝可梦世界**，玩家需要尝试**团结宝可梦伙伴**，并找出人类消失的原因。其玩法深受**《我的世界》（Minecraft）**和**《动物森友会》（Animal Crossing）**的启发，上市仅一个月就取得了**惊人的销量**。主持人也对此游戏表示喜爱，甚至自己也投入了约80小时的游戏时间。 节目最后，Arthur Geese向《Wire Cutter》的听众致谢，并提到节目中讨论到的产品将在**节目笔记**中提供链接。听众也可访问**Wire Cutter网站**了解更多关于游戏主机的内容，以及编辑们最喜欢的游戏指南。
Original English >> So, Arthur, my final question for you is, what's your favorite game to play on your Switch? >> You know, I I play a lot of games, so I've hopped a little bit from game to game. I'm not a big Mario Kart guy. I'm like always annoyed by that blue shell. Donkey Kong Bonanza was great. It's a great game. It's got a lot of personality. It's just really fun. And I think there's a simplicity to sort of like smashing the world around you that I think can appeal to players of all ages. The Switch 2 game that I put the most time into, amusingly enough, is something called Poptopia, which just came out. >> I love Popia. >> Popia is a Pokémon themed game where you play as a Ditto, which is a funny little Pokemon that can do things that other Pokémon do, trying to recover a strangely post-apocalyptic Pokemon world, and try to get Pokémon friends to come back and figure out where all the people went. And it's very much Minecraft inspired, Animal Crossing inspired, and it sold just a phenomenally large amount of copies when it came out about a month ago. >> I mean, yeah, I get it. I don't like Minecraft or Pokémon or Animal Crossing, but I vlogged probably 80 hours on Popia so far. >> Yeah, that's impressive. >> Arthur Geese, supervising editor on the tech team. Thank you so much for joining us today. >> Happy to be here. Thanks so much for having me. As always, we will link to the products we talked about today in the show notes. And if you want to learn more about Wire Cutters coverage on gaming consoles, go to our website. You can also find guides to our writer's favorite games for the Switch and Switch 2. That's it for us. Until next week, thank you so much for listening. Bye.