--- author: Norges Bank Investment Management date: '2026-09-10' guest: '' layout: post.njk source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH8IMwDN0LQ speaker: Norges Bank Investment Management tags: - autonomous-driving - humanoid-robot - physical-ai - flying-car title: 小鹏汽车副董事长顾宏地谈物理AI定位与智能化发展路径 summary: 小鹏汽车副董事长顾宏地在播客中表示，小鹏汽车定位于物理AI科技公司，核心差异化在于智能化而非单纯电动化。公司正将技术拓展至机器人和飞行汽车领域，并分享了个人由科学家转型商界的经历与建议。 insight: '' draft: true series: '' category: tech-trends area: tech-engineering project: [] people: - 顾宏地 companies_orgs: - 小鹏汽车 products_models: [] media_books: [] status: evergreen --- ### 中国车企的竞争优势与小鹏的定位 你认为中国汽车厂商目前比欧洲和美国领先多少？
Original English How far ahead of uh Europe and the US do you think Chinese producers are now?
>> 嗯，我认为我们在几个领域处于领先地位。我认为在电动化方面，中国厂商显然拥有优势，比如拥有强大的电池技术、产能以及成本优势，在汽车制造端也是如此，因为中国是全球最大的汽车市场。但真正推动中国竞争力的，我认为还是技术的快速演进。
Original English >> Well, I think we are leading a few areas. I think uh in electrification uh Chinese players obviously has advantage of [music] having you know strong battery technology capacity cost advantages [music] in the automotive side because China is the largest automotive market in the world. But what's really driving the uh I would say competitiveness in China is also the fast evolution of technology.
大家好，我是挪威主权财富基金的首席执行官尼古拉·坦根（Nicolai Tangen），我对这期播客感到非常兴奋。小鹏汽车是中国增长最快的电动汽车制造商之一，但它并不称自己为一家汽车公司，而是称自己为一家物理 AI 公司，押注于同样的技术既可以用来开车、驾驶飞行汽车，也能为具身人形机器人提供动力。今天我的嘉宾是小鹏汽车副董事长兼总裁顾宏地（Brian Gu）。Brian，热烈欢迎你的到来。
Original English Hi everybody, I'm Nicolola Tangian the CEO of the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund and I'm really excited excited about this podcast. Xpang is one of China's fastest growing EV makers, but it doesn't call itself a car company. It calls itself a physical AI company, betting that the same technology that can drive a car, pilot a flying car, and power a humanoid robot. My guest today is Brian Gu, vice chairman and president of Xpang. Brian, warm welcome.
>> 谢谢你，Nicolai。非常高兴能来参加这期播客。
Original English >> Thank you, Nicola. Very happy to be on the podcast.
>> Brian，小鹏到底是什么？
Original English >> Brian, what is Xpang?
嗯，我想说小鹏首先是一家科技公司，但随着我们如今深入钻研物理 AI 的方方面面，我认为我们真的处于这场物理 AI 浪潮的前沿。正如你所提到的，我们正在制造电动汽车，无论在中国还是在全球范围内，它都是领先的品牌之一。但我们逐渐扩大了产品范围，覆盖了更多领域和方向，包括机器人、飞行汽车以及其他形态，但使用的都是相同的核心技术。
Original English Well, I would say Xpen first of all is a technology company, but as we now dive into the uh depths of um all things physical AI, I think we're consider yourself really kind of forefront of this physical AI movement. We are building EVs as you mentioned. It's one of the leading brands in China as well as globally. But increasingly we have broadened our product scoop to be including more areas and directions including robots, flying cars and other modalities as well but using the same core.
### 智能化是核心差异化壁垒 >> 很多人认为电动汽车就是装了电池的汽车，但你却说智能化才是差异化所在，而非电动化。你这是什么意思？
Original English >> A lot of people think that uh electrical vehicle is is a car with a battery but you say it's about uh it's the intelligence that's the differentiator not the electrification. What do you mean by that?
嗯，这其实正是我们多年来采取的不同做法。即使在我们还是一家非常非常小的初创公司时，比方说大约九年前我刚加入小鹏时，在那个时候，我认为每个人都在考虑创办一家电动汽车公司，所以大家主要宣传的都是汽车的电气化、能源转型。但即便在当时，我们也向投资者和合作伙伴表示，我们相信长期的差异化不在于单纯的电动化，而是在于智能化。这就是为什么我们一直专注于在智能化领域建立全栈式布局，包括硬件、软件，现在正日益迈入 AI 时代。
Original English Well, that actually is what we actually has done differently over the years. Uh, even when we were a very very small startup, let's say about nine years ago when I first joined XPend um you know that time I think everyone is looking at starting a EV company. Uh so the big you know pitch was electrified uh uh energy transition for automobiles. But even at the end you know we have told investors as well as our partners that we believe the long-term differentiation is not with electrification only it's actually in the intelligence and that's why I think for us you know we have consistently focused on building a full stack approach on the intelligence areas that includes hardware software and now increasingly moving into the era of AI.
>> 那么作为一个专业人士，当你坐进一辆车时，你如何从智能化的角度来判断这是否是一辆好车？
Original English So when you um when you enter a car you know as a professional just uh how do you judge whether this is a great car from an intelligence point of view?
>> 嗯，首先，我认为当你进入一辆车时，你必须真正了解这辆车是否能理解你。显然有不同层次的理解。首先，它必须了解你个人、你的行为习惯、你的偏好、你想去哪里，以及你与汽车交互的方式是否让你感到自在。这是你能直观理解的第一点。第二点是当汽车开始行驶时，我认为一辆智能汽车应该能够自主应对许多驾驶路况。显而易见，我这里指的还不是 L4 级。但即使在 L2+ 级别的范围内，你也能感受到差异。越智能、训练越好的模型，在道路上行驶就会越平顺，能非常得体地处理非常棘手的情况，而不会引发任何担忧或焦虑。 所以所有这些实际上都转化成了智能化的维度。最终我认为是：你如何统一这些体验？因此，我们目前正在做的就是把自动驾驶智能和智能座舱智能结合并融为一体。实际上今天早上我刚坐在车里体验过。我们即将推出我们最新一代的智能驾驶 VLM 2.0 版本，其中一个功能就是使用智能座舱的交互来下达驾驶指令。比如我说“靠边停一下”，车就知道该怎么做；我说“我想在路边临时停靠一下”，它也能结合路线规划帮你完成，并把你送到那里。因此我认为，将所有这些结合在一起，将带来智能出行的体验。
Original English >> Well first of all I think uh you know when you get into a car you have to really understand you know whether the car can understand you. You know there's obviously various degrees of understanding. First of all, it has to understand you personally, your behavior, your preferences, uh where you want to go to, the way you interact with the car, you feel like at ease. So that's the first thing you actually understand. The second thing is when the car start moving, uh I think an intelligent car can handle a lot of these driving conditions on its own. Obviously, I'm not talking about level four yet. Uh but even at the level two plus, you know, I would say regime, you can feel the difference. the more intelligent the better trained models will handle the roads smoothly, handle very tricky situations very nicely uh without causing any concerns or anxiety. So all of that actually translate into the intelligence aspect of it and ultimately I think is you know how do you unify the experiences? So what we are working on right now is to unify the autonomous driving intelligence and the smart cabin intelligence and merge them. I was actually just in the car this morning. We are going to launch our latest uh uh I would say the intelligent driving the VL 2.0 uh editions. One of the feature is actually using the smart cockpit interaction to command driving. It say I want to pull over a little bit. The car knows what to do. I want to actually make a quick stop. They can actually do that for you along the you know the planning as well as delivering you there. So all of that I think combined together will deliver a intelligent mobility experience.
### 未来出行变革与 L4 自动驾驶 >> 你认为这在 10 年后会是什么样子？
Original English >> What is this going to look like in 10 years time you think?
>> 嗯，我认为随着技术的进步，L4 级别的能力实现只是时间问题，它必然会发生，会在我们有生之年发生，也会在你遇到的许多无处不在的场景中发生。如果这种能力变得随处可见，那么你可以想象，当前的生活方式、当前的出行体验将被彻底颠覆。你不再局限于特定的地点，也不再局限于花时间规划如何去开车。驾驶将成为你日常工作或日常娱乐的一部分，成为你出行时间消耗的一部分。所以我想说，它将改变人们的时间分配方式，改变房地产等行业，改变通信等行业，而且几乎会改变我认为车内所能承载的一切。
Original English >> Well I think uh with uh advancement in technology I would say you know the level four capability will just a matter of time it's going to happen it's going to happen our lifetimes it's going to happen in a lot of you know sort of ubiquous scenarios that you encounter. Um so if that capability becomes everywhere then you can imagine uh the current uh um the way of life current mobility experience will be completely transformed. You are not limited to a certain location. You're not limited to you know spending time planning your time to handle the driving. The driving is as part of the uh your daily work or daily you know entertainment as part of your you know mobility you know uh uh time spent. So I would say it will change people's time allocation. It will change uh industries like real estate, change industries like communications and also change pretty much everything I would say it can actually handle inside a vehicle. Now
### 续航、充电技术与电池自研边界 >> 那么在续航方面，也就是一辆车能跑多长时间、多远这方面，会发生什么变化呢？抱歉，我打断一下，L4 级是指完全自动驾驶，对吧？ 对，L4 级是完全自动驾驶，无需人类干预，比如连方向盘都没有。 是的。
Original English >> what's going to happen on the on the range side in terms of how long how far a car can can travel? I mean I'm sorry just to in inject here level four is totally autonomous, right? Yeah, level four is fully autonomous uh without human intervention. Um for example, without the steering wheel. Yes.
>> 那么未来续航里程和充电时间会迎来什么变化？
Original English >> So what is uh what's happening with with with range and charging times going forward?
>> 我想说，基于目前的化学体系，我认为现有的电池化学体系还会持续相当长的一段时间，之后我们才可能迎来固态电池。我认为距离固态电池在商业上可行还有五年以上的时间。因此在目前的化学体系下，我认为续航里程将保持与我们今天所看到的类似水平。取决于电池的容量大小，大概在 500 到 1000 公里之间。但充电时间和充电体验将发生巨大变化。显然你已经看到超快充在中国已经变得非常非常普及，并且正在全球范围内推广。充电时间和充电速度将使人们的补能停顿时间与进加油站加油非常相似。例如，过去可能需要半小时到一个小时的充电时间，现在可能只需 5 到 10 分钟。所以我认为这也改变了人们的出行行为方式。因此，随着充电速度以及效率的提升，我认为并不需要一块巨大的电池，不需要一辆续航达到 2000 甚至 5000 公里的车，那只会增加车辆的成本和重量。我认为，随着充电网络的可及性和充电速度的提升，这绝对已经缓解了许多人的续航焦虑。
Original English >> I would say um the range uh with the current chemistry uh I think that current chemistry will last for you know quite some time uh before we get to maybe solid state. I would say that's more than five years away uh to be commercially you know feasible. So with the current chemistry I would say the range will stay uh similar to what we see today. Uh let's say between 500 to a,000 kilometers uh given the size of battery obviously uh but the charging time and charging experience will change dramatically. Uh obviously you you saw the super fast charging become very very popular in China already and it's spreading around the world. uh the charging time and charging speed will allow people's uh you know downtime to be very similar to a gas station stop. So for example, it used to be taking I don't know half an hour to an hour of charging you know uh time. Now it's maybe 5 to 10 minutes. So that I would say also changes people's mobility behavior. Uh so with charging uh as well as the uh the the the efficiency I would say you don't need a large battery. You don't need a car that has, you know, 2,000 5,000 kilometers of range. That just adds to the cost and weight of the vehicle, but I think it definitely addresses uh a lot of people's uh range anxieties already with availability of network and the charging speed improvements.
>> 你认为续航达到多少就足够了，超过这个范围就不再需要更多续航了？
Original English >> What's the range where you think it's enough and beyond that you don't need more range?
>> 我认为 1000 公里就是外沿极限了，再多就是浪费。至少在我看来是这样。
Original English >> I think 1,00 kilometers is outside uh sort of limit. Anything more than that is waste. I mean in my mind,
>> 你们是自己造电池，还是用宁德时代的，或者用谁的电池？
Original English >> do you make your own batteries or do you use CL or who do you use?
>> 嗯，我们不生产电池电芯。我们是从非常高品质的供应商那里采购。我们在中国与另外几家大型电池公司合作，并不是宁德时代。但是，我们确实利用这些电芯来自行设计我们自己的电池技术。例如电池管理系统、封装技术，以及真正让我们的车辆效率更高、充电更快的高压电气平台。因此这些技术实际上是我们自己做的。
Original English >> Well, we don't make our battery cells. So, we actually source from very high quality suppliers. Um, you know, there's actually a couple other names, uh, which is large battery companies in China we work with. Uh, not CL. Uh, but we do, um, design our own, you know, battery technology utilizing those cells. for example, you know, the battery management system, the packing technology, uh the really the you know the electric platform that make our vehicle more efficient, high and faster charging. So those technologies actually we do ourselves.
### 中国新能源汽车市场渗透率突破 >> 你认为中国电动汽车市场未来的发展趋势如何？
Original English >> Um where do you see the Chinese uh EV market going?
>> 刚刚过去的这个月，中国新能源汽车的渗透率超过了 60%，甚至可能接近 65%。这是一个令人震惊的数字。这意味着今天我们在中国售出的电动汽车数量已经超过了燃油车。所以这是纯电动汽车首次超越燃油车，显然再加上插电式混合动力车，新能源车板块目前已占新车销量的 60% 以上，这实际上意味着电动汽车或新能源
Original English >> This past month uh Chinese uh new energy penetration exceeded 60% uh maybe even close to 65%. That's a staggering number. uh which means that we have more EVs sold in China than ICE today. So this is actually the first time the battery electric vehicle crossed the IC and obviously adding on the plug-in hybrid uh the the new energy segment is now more than 60% of the new car sales which means actually you know the EV or new energy
### 电动汽车成为主流与行业竞争格局 车辆实际上已成为主流产品。几年前，人们总把电动汽车看作小众产品，对吧？我的意思是，相比于大多数人仍然选择燃油车，那时买电动汽车的只有一小部分人。但今天，因为这种转变——因为电动汽车和混动车成为主流的这种转变，现在所有的规则都不同了。比如，我们现在正在取消所有补贴，因为现在不需要再去补贴主流产品了，不需要再去鼓励大家使用它们了。人们自然而然地在购买。但与此同时，我认为这些行为方面，比如你开始看到加油站逐渐消失，取而代之的是充电站。你开始看到人们现在实际在使用这些电气化车辆，包括电动汽车和混动车，因为它们有电池，有算力，很多智能化功能变得越来越普及。所以这实际上引领了一个全新的趋势，不仅是因为能源，还因为智能化以及其他行为习惯的改变。
Original English vehicle is actually a mainstream product. A few years ago, people always see EV as a niche product, right? I mean, it's only small portion of people buying EVs compared to the you know, people most people still go for the ICE. But today, um because of the change because because the change that you know EVs and hybrids become mainstream, all the rules are different now. So, for example, you know, we we're now getting rid of all the subsidies because now you don't need to subsidize the mainstream product. you don't need to encourage the use of them anymore. You know, people are naturally buying them. But at the same time, you know, I think those behavior, for example, you start to see gas stations disappearing replaced by charging stations. Uh you got to start to see, you know, people actually now utilizing the electrified vehicles, EVs and hybrids because they have a battery, they have computing power. A lot of those intelligence become more and more prevalent. So that actually leads to a whole new trend not just because of energy but also intelligence and other behaviors.
>> 竞争格局目前发展得如何？从局外来看，竞争似乎变得——我是说简直是激烈得残酷。
Original English >> How is the competitive landscape developing? Seems from the outside that is becoming I mean it's just like fiercely competitive.
>> 确实如此。我认为中国的新能源汽车市场，包括电动汽车市场在内，大概是全世界竞争最激烈的细分领域或行业了。我们有大量非常非常高水准的参与者在相互竞争。我会说，中国大概是汽车工业在全世界最严酷的健身房。谁能真正从这个健身房生存下来，我认为就有很大机会真正成为全球的领军参与者。
Original English >> Absolutely. I think the China uh the new energy vehicle market which includes the EV market is probably the most competitive segment or industry in the world. Um we have a lot of very very high quality uh players uh competing with each other. Um I would say you know China is probably the fittest gym in the world for automotive industry right you know whoever can actually survive this gym I think has a good chance of you know really become a you know leading players globally.
>> 谁能从那个健身房活下来？ 我认为我们有不错的机会，但对每个人来说也是一场非常非常艰难的战斗，因为正如我所说，第一点是竞争非常激烈；第二点是，现在竞争所要求的条件比过去多得多。我认为在过去，汽车公司可以只专注于自己的细分领域。他们大量使用一级供应商、二级供应商，实际上是从外部采购技术。但今天，鉴于具身智能（physical AI）的发展，汽车变得越来越像机器人，对吧？我的意思是，不仅是因为它实现了电气化，还因为我提到的智能化，因为它们具备需要展现的自动驾驶能力。为了打造一款极具竞争力的产品，你不仅需要精通汽车工程，还要精通人工智能和软件；你既要深入理解新的电驱动动力系统，同时还必须确保提供打造品牌所必需的一流服务。因此，具备所有这些能力使得竞争处于一个与以往完全不同的层级。所以能够生存下来并我认为赢得这场竞赛的人，必须是既拥有全栈技术，又具备参与竞争所需的规模与全球覆盖能力的人。
Original English >> Who's going to survive that gym? Well, I think uh you know we have a decent chance but also there's a very very uphill battle for everybody because like I said one is it's very competitive. Two uh it actually requires a lot more to compete than in the past. I think in the past automotive company can focus on their segments. Uh they use a lot of you know tier one suppliers, tier two suppliers. They actually source technology from outside. But today given the development of this uh physical AI you know cars become more and more like robots right I mean not only it's electrified but also because it has the intelligence I mentioned it's because they have you know the autonomous driving capabilities that need to demonstrate you in order to build a very competitive product uh you need to be both at good at automotive engineering but also at AI and software you also be good at you know understanding the new electric powertrain and at the same time you need to also make sure you deliver the best services as required for building the brands. So having all these capabilities are making the competition at a different level compared to before. So the people who can survive and be and I think winning the race will have to be the people who has a full stack technology but also has a scale and global reach in order to be competing.
### 中国车企的优劣势与全球化出海 你认为中国生产商现在领先欧洲和美国多远？
Original English How far ahead of uh Europe and the US do you think Chinese producers are now?
>> 我认为我们在几个领域是处于领先地位的。在电气化方面，中国参与者显然具有优势，拥有强大的电池技术、产能以及成本优势；在汽车工业方面，因为中国是全球最大的汽车市场，我认为中国孕育出本土的行业冠军实际上只是时间问题，就像以往日本或德国所孕育出的那样。所以在这一方面，我认为中国在这些细分领域是领先的。但真正推动中国竞争力的，我认为还在于技术的快速迭代演进。正如我所说，中国具有竞争力、作为消费者真正乐于接纳新技术的市场，中国技术的变革速度以及客户对新技术的接受度都比世界其他地区更快。因此，在这样的背景下，再结合供应链制造效率等制造方面的优势，我认为中国在电动汽车发展的某些关键领域确实拥有一种领先地位。但与此同时，我认为中国参与者也必须向全球同行学习很多东西。首先，我认为中国参与者仍不习惯在跨国环境中扮演领导者角色。因为我认为那是一个中国参与者仍需学习如何行事的领域，作为一家能够在多个大洲、多个地区成为领军者、建立让人们信任的品牌、建立让人们依赖的服务，以及建立能让你长期立足的本地关系的企业。我认为所有这些都需要长期的投资。所以这些实际上是我们应该向欧洲以及美国的跨国领导企业学习的地方。
Original English >> Well, I think we are um leading a few areas. I think uh in electrification uh Chinese players obviously has advantage of having you know strong battery technology capacity cost advantages in the automotive side because China is the largest automotive market in the world. I think it's actually just a matter of time uh you know when China produces a local champion just like what Japan has produced or Germany has produced in the past. So I think it was you know in that regard I think China you know is leading uh in these segment but what's really driving the uh I would say competitiveness in China is also the fast evolution of technology uh like I said you know the you know China being competitive being you know the the you know a market where consumers really embrace new technologies so the speed of change and also the customer adoption of new technologies faster faster uh in China than in you know other world other parts of the world. So I think with these kind of background and coupled with also the manufacturing advantages in supply chain manufacturing efficiencies etc. I think China does I think possess I would say a lead uh in some of those key areas in the EV development but at the same time I think Chinese players also have to be learning a lot from global players. Um, first of all, I think Chinese players still not, you know, used to be a leader in a multinational world. Uh, because that's an area I think Chinese players still need to learn how to behave, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, as a company that can be a leader in multiple continents, multiple regions, building a brand that people trust, building a service that people rely on, and also building local relationships that allow you to stay for the long run. All of that I think takes a long time to invest. So those are things actually we should learn from multinational leaders uh in Europe as well as uh in the US.
>> 你认为小鹏汽车走向全球需要多长时间？因为某种程度上你们已经通过经销商网络等在北欧地区有了一定起步，但在这一历程中你们目前处于什么阶段，这需要付出什么？ 正如你所指出的，我们在挪威开启了这段旅程，大约在六年前，也就是2020年底我们在挪威开设了第一家门店。我认为这是一个非常有趣、而且非常具有启发教育意义的过程。我们在国际业务模式上经历了很多转变。我们在欧洲全面铺开，也进入了东南亚、中东、澳大利亚以及现在的拉丁美洲等其他地区。目前我们在70多个国家进行销售。但我认为最大的挑战在于确保我们真正调整自身的模式，成为当地认可接纳的品牌和产品。如你所知，过去中国品牌曾被认为缺乏品质，或者存在某些品牌认可度问题。因此对我们而言，不仅是要进入这些国家，还必须建立支撑我们增长的本土能力和品牌。我们的另一个挑战在于，如何与目前同样试图从中国走向全球的十几个其他品牌区分开来。所以这些实际上正是我们目前最关心的事项。
Original English >> How long time do you think it would take Xpang to roll out globally because you've you've in a way started in the Nordic region to a certain extent um with the dealer network and so on but just where are you on that journey and what will it take? Well, you know, we started a journey as you pointed out uh in Norway uh about six years ago when we actually uh launched the first store uh in Norway I think the end of 2020 and um it it's been a very interesting uh I would say and very very educating uh process. Um you know we went through a lot of uh changes uh in our business model internationally. Uh we entered Europe uh as a whole. uh we also entered into other regions in Southeast Asia, Middle East, uh Australia, uh and also Latin America now. So we are selling over 70 countries at the moment. But I would say the biggest um uh challenge is to making sure that we you know really adjust our models to becoming a locally accepted uh brand and product. as you know you know uh uh Chinese brands uh in the past has been viewed as you know coming from you know uh you know possess you know lack of quality or or some you know uh uh brand recognition issues. So for us is that not only we are entering these countries but also have to build the local capabilities and brand that supports our growth and also another challenge for us is how to differentiate from the you know a dozen other brands that currently also is trying to go global out of China. So those are things actually you know top of our mind at the moment.
当把小鹏汽车与比如欧洲生产商进行对比时，大众汽车持有你们的股份，并且你们也在欧洲生产汽车，你看到了什么？你们拥有非常独特的对比机会，你是怎么看待这种对比的？
Original English when you compare and contrast um Xpang with um let's say European producers, what do you um what are you seeing um when Volkswagen has a stake in you and you also produce cars in Europe. So you got a pretty unique opportunity to compare just what are how do you compare?
>> 我会说，当我们审视自己与全球同行的竞争时，我们关注的是多个维度。在技术方面，我认为作为一家规模较小、年轻的企业，我们可能比很多全球巨头更加敏捷，决策更快，技术创新也更快。所以我认为这也是大众汽车等部分全球同行与我们合作的原因之一。但与此同时，我们也真正开始理解全球跨国企业是如何运作的，这是我们正在向德国整车厂以及美国和日本整车厂等大企业学习的地方——学习他们如何历经多代产品开发保持基业长青，如何培育当地的认知度和品牌忠诚度，这是我认为我们也在向他们学习的。同时，鉴于电动汽车的发展以及智能化技术的演进，我认为还有一个可以提出的论点是，你将会看到中国企业与国际企业之间出现越来越多的合作，就像大家看到的大众汽车与小鹏之间的合作以及其他一些类似案例一样，因为我认为我们确实带来了非常强的互补性。我们在带来更快速的创新，我们带来了我认为一些……
Original English >> I would say we're you know looking at a number of dimensions when we actually see oursel competing with global peers. Uh on the technology front I think we uh are you know as a small company a young company I think we're probably more nimble uh than a lot of the global players uh we make uh decisions quicker uh we can actually also make technology innovations faster uh so that's one of the reason that I think some of the global uh peers are working with us such as uh Volkswagen but at the same time also we are really understanding how global multinationals operate uh that's something I think we're learning from the bigger players uh you know from German uh OEMs as well as you know American and and Japanese OEMs how they can actually sustain you know many generations of product development and cultivate a local recognition and brand loyalty that is something I think we we're learning from them as well at the same time I think also given the development uh in EV and also the technology in intelligence I think there's also A a thesis to be made is that you would see more and more collaboration uh between Chinese players and uh international players such as the ones that you saw between Volkswagen and Xpan and and some other examples as well because I think there is a very strong complimentarity that we actually bring to the table. You know, we're bringing faster innovation. We're bringing you know I would say some of the uh um uh
来自中国市场的消费者理解，而且，你知道，能够以更快的节奏进行部署。但与此同时，我认为，与像大众这样能够真正帮助我们实现规模化的国际车企相结合，并确保我们能够在更广泛的细分市场中将部分投资进行变现。因此，我认为这些优势结合在一起，实际上可以鼓励未来展开更多的合作。
Original English consumer understandings from a Chinese market and also uh you know uh being able to deploy in a faster uh uh uh um pace but at the same time I think uh you know coupled with um uh um international players like Volkswagen that actually can help us really achieve scale uh also and having us you know making sure we can monetize some of those investments. in a much wider segments. So those benefits I think come together I think actually could encourage more collaborations down the road.
### 中国速度与研发周期 >> 是什么解释了在创新以及普遍速度上的差异？我是说，是什么解释了所谓的“中国速度”？
Original English >> What explains the difference in speed in innovation and generally in in speed? I mean what explains the what we call the Chinese speed?
>> 我认为“中国速度”的出现是由多重因素推动的。第一个因素是，中国已被证明是软件、互联网和消费电子领域非常非常强劲的参与者。因此，这些专长让中国的研发团队能够与汽车工程师合作，真正去创造性地思考我们如何利用这些经验，让汽车变得更智能、对消费者更友好。另一方面，正如我提到的，存在市场力量。你知道，中国有激烈得多的竞争，这迫使你更具创新性，推动你真正更快地把其中一些技术研发转化为实际的产品和功能。然后第三点是，消费者的接受率要快得多。在中国，人们愿意去拥抱新技术。你在互联网、移动互联网、移动支付中都看到了这一点。所有这些其实都指向了同一点。所以这三种力量结合在一起，再加上我提到的显而易见的供应链和制造优势，让中国的创新快得多。
Original English >> Well I think the Chinese speed um appeared because multiple factors are driving it. first factor is um because China has proven to be a very very strong player in the software internet consumer electronics area. So those expertise allows you know the Chinese development uh you know team you know R&D side working with automotive engineers to really think creatively how we can utilize those learnings and make cars smarter and make more consumer friendly. On the other side, you have the market forces as I mentioned. You know, there's a lot more competition in China that force you to be more innovative to push you to, you know, really be faster in in turning some of these uh technology development into actual product and features. And then the third piece of that is you know the consumer adoption rate is much faster. So in China people willing to you know embrace new technology. You saw that in internet, in mobile internet, in mobile payment. All of that actually points to the same thing. So those three forces together as well as obviously the supply chain manufacturing advantage I mentioned makes Chinese innovation much faster.
>> 您认为到底快了多少？
Original English >> How much faster would you say?
>> 我认为可以从两个方面来看。一是整车开发周期。我认为我们可能把周期从原来的也许三到五年缩短到了大约两年左右。所以整车开发肯定缩短了。另一个方面是你实际推出新功能的速度有多快。我认为每一次OTA，我们都会给产品增加功能。因此，由于现在有了软件和OTA功能的加入，产品周期要比传统汽车的产品周期快得多。
Original English >> I think there are two um ways to look at one is vehicle development cycles. I think we probably shortened by you know from you know maybe five to three to five years to about you know two years. So I think there's a definitely shortening of vehicle development. Uh the other one is how quickly you actually launch new features. Uh I think uh you know every OTAA we we add features to our products. Uh so that product cycles much faster than the traditional automotive product cycle because now you have the software and OTAA feature adding to that.
>> 那么为什么你们能比欧洲厂商做得快这么多？ >> 我认为首先是公司的DNA不同。我常说小鹏虽然显然是一家汽车公司，但核心DNA是科技。创始人既来自汽车界，也来自软件和互联网界，现在又日益具备AI能力。因此我认为高层的DNA真正驱动了我们对产品和研发的思考方式。我认为第二个答案是我们规模小，我们年轻，我们没有部门墙。我们没有已经运行了几十年的流程，那种流程很难改变。我们也没有需要费力周旋才能促成改变的利益相关方。一些全球老牌企业，你必须在其总部做出决策，而当决策传达到中国或其最终市场时，可能已经是大约一年之后了。所以那种速度无法与我们在中国当地看到的速度相匹敌。
Original English >> So why can you do that so much faster than let's say European producers? I think it first of all uh it is uh the DNA of the company is different. Uh I always say that you know Xpen even though we're obviously automotive company but the core DNA is tech you know we obviously the founders came from both the automotive world as well as the software internet world and now increasingly was AI capabilities. So I would say the DNA at the top really drives the way we think about product and development. Second answer I think to this is that we're small, we're young, you know, we don't have department walls. We don't have processes that has been placed for decades. Uh so it's very difficult to change. Uh we also don't have stakeholders we need to maneuver to make those changes happen. Some of the global players, you know, you have make a decision in their headquarters and when the decision reaches China or reaches their end market, it's already like maybe a year later. So those speed it's not able to match the speed we see on the ground in China.
>> 您认为你们工作努力程度高多少？
Original English >> How much harder do you think you work?
>> 我想说我们的团队在某种程度上可能工作非常努力。我认为这既有中国的工作伦理与创新速度，但同时我们也有创业心态，因为公司只有12年的历史。所以我认为管理团队和这里的团队依然葆有我刚来时体会到的那种精神。我们依然保持着那种创业精神。因此我认为这两种特质真正驱动了工作伦理，而且我认为让团队合作要努力得多。
Original English >> Well, I think I I I would say you know our team probably works very hard in a way. I think uh it's it's it's both the China work ethic and uh and speed of innovation but same time also we have a sense of entrepreneurship because company is only 12 years old. Uh so we still I think the you know the management team and team here still have that spirit I experienced when I first got here. We still keep that entrepreneurial spirit. So I think you know those two characters really drive you know the work ethic and and and I think you know teamwork much much harder
### 飞行汽车与低空经济 >> 飞行汽车——汽车什么时候能飞？
Original English >> flying cars when will cars fly
>> 它已经在飞了，但我们是用一种不同的方式在飞。我们有这家叫Ariage的公司，其实是我们孵化的一家公司，目前虽然我们只是少数股东，但我们把这家公司视为我们生态系统的一部分。他们设计飞行汽车已经超过10年了。它最初是由一位极具魅力的创始人创立的，他过去凭借一己之力，只带很少的几个人，独自开创了飞行电机和飞行器的研发。但现在，显然有了我们的支持，以及过去10年的发展，他把这项业务做成了规模非常可观的事业，而且他们目前实际上已经有了一款准备推出的产品，显然正在等待中国的最终审批。目前它被认为是飞行汽车，但实际上是我们所称的“陆地航母”，它是一辆车内搭载了eVTOL的汽车，可以自动分离并用于飞行30分钟，并且垂直起飞后可以搭载两个人，随后能够自动返回并重新装载进车内。所以我认为这真的非常非常接近商业化现实了。公司实际上已经在全球范围内收取了超过7000台意向订单，而不仅仅是在中国。因此我认为你实际上正在看到低空经济——这是过去几年中国的一个热门词汇，同时还有飞行出行，我认为在西方世界这在未来一到两年里可能也会成为现实。
Original English >> it's already flying you know we actually but we are flying a different way. uh we have this company called Ariage uh that actually uh is a company that we incubated um and the company currently is now uh only invested we are a minority shield at the moment but we we considered that company in our ecosystem they have been designing flying car for over 10 years uh it was actually founded by a very charismatic founder who used to be a you know individual pioneering the development of flying motor and fly vehicles on him on his own with only a few people very small but now with obviously our support with you know the development over the last 10 years he's built that you know business into you know a very very substantial business and they actually have a product ready to launch obviously pending the final approvals in China at the moment it is a considered flying car but it's actually what we call the aircraft carrier the land aircraft carrier it's a car that carries a EV toe inside the vehicle and can be separate automatically and be used flying for you know 30 minutes uh and then you can actually take two people uh with you know the vertically took off and then it can actually come back automatically and be loaded into vehicles. So that actually is something I would say is very very close to commercial reality. The pro the company actually already collected more than 7,000 you know indictive orders around the world not just in China. So I think uh you're actually seeing the the low altitude economy which is a Chinese buzzword uh for the last few years. same time also fly mobility that's actually I would say the western world uh you know become probably reality in the next year or two
>> 但您认为什么时候会走向大众市场？
Original English >> but when do you think there'll be a mass market
>> eVTOL飞行器业务，我认为在我看来需要更长的普及时间。显然，这是一个受到高度监管的领域，例如，Ariage公司正在等待中国民航局的审批，我认为这会比常规的汽车审批需要更长时间。与此同时，我认为对于愿意购买和运营这些飞行器的公司或个人来说，需要一个漫长的市场教育过程。所以我认为就渗透率曲线而言，它所需的时间大概会比我们在汽车或某些自动驾驶技术中通常看到的要长三到五倍。因此这将是一个渐进的过程，但与此同时，我看到对这个领域的巨大热情，因为归根结底它将释放——我想说将释放中国和全球目前尚未被开发的庞大经济空间。因此我认为这个领域有巨大的潜力成为主流产业。
Original English >> flying um eto business I think it will take in my opinion a longer adoption time uh clearly uh it's heavily regulated area for example we are waiting you know the company area is waiting for uh Chinese CAC approval uh which will take you know I would say longer than regular vehicle approvals. Uh at the same time I think uh for um you know companies or individuals who are willing to you know buy and operate these vehicles I think it will take a um a long educational process. So I think you know in terms of the curve of penetration I think it will probably take probably three to five times longer than what we typically see in automotive or in uh some autonomous driving technologies. So it will be a graduous process but at the same time I think I I see a lot of enthusiasm uh for this space because ultimately liberated uh I would say will liberate a vast uh uh economy which is not tapped at the moment both in China and globally. So I think there's a tremendous potential for this uh you know segment to become a mainstream industry.
### 布局人形机器人 >> Brian，让我们转向另一个令人惊叹的领域——人形机器人。你们为什么要涉足机器人？
Original English >> Brian let's move on to another incredible incredible area the the humanoid robots. Why why are you going into robots?
>> 我们进军机器人领域的理由其实是非常自然的。首先，正如我之前提到的，小鹏始终坚信智能化，这是我们的核心差异化优势。这种智能化在汽车领域显然是自动驾驶、智能座舱，但如今随着AI和具身智能的发展，意味着我们必须开发核心能力，例如包括边缘计算。现在我们的车上搭载了自主研发的半导体芯片。我们必须构建处理模型，来为车辆做出自主决策。我们还必须构建处理数据输入、采集和训练的AI基础设施。因此，所有这些能力在思考机器人研发时自然是非常易于迁移的，因为在核心层面上，它共享着非常相似的具身智能基础构件。例如在机器人领域，我们正在利用同一套边缘计算系统，其中包括芯片、模型、数据和训练；但与此同时，我们也正在利用我们对动力总成的认知经验，比如高效的电力驱动总成和电动机，这些同样可以应用在人形机器人中，而且我……
Original English >> You know the reason that we're going to robot it's actually very natural. Um first of all as I mentioned earlier Xpen has always believed in intelligence. It's our core differentiation. Uh that intelligence obviously in the automotive world is autonomous driving smart cabin but with now the the advant of AI and physical AI development that means that we have to develop a core capabilities for example including you know edge computing. Now we have our own semiconductor chips in our vehicles we develop ourselves. We have to build models uh for handling you know the VA that you know make you know autonomous decisions for vehicles. We have to also build uh AI infrastructure that handles data inputs collection and training. So all that capability actually is naturally very transferable to think about the robotic development because at the core it shares a very similar physical AI fundamental uh building blocks. So for example in the robotic world we're utilizing the same edge computing system which including the chips, the models, the the data and the training. uh but also at the same times we are using uh you know our learnings from you know the the power train how you know the efficient you know electric power train the motor electric motors which can be utilized also in in in in humano robots and I
我认为这些能力在研发上是具有协同效应的，因为它们最终共享相同的核心。事实上，如果你观察整车研发的过程，它正变得越来越像一个机器人，而不是传统汽车。所以这就是为什么我认为两者之间存在显著的协同效应，可以让我们真正共享。因为我们关注的核心实际上在于智能化。而我们之所以走向人形机器人，是因为我们认为，凭借我提到的所有能力，能够影响人们日常生活的最多功能的形态就是人形机器人。因为你想想看，我们生活的环境——这里的房间、那边的办公室、商店、餐馆——全都是为了人类的活动和人类的居留而建造的。所以，拥有一个人形机器人——这也正是我们正在努力做的，不同于其他一些机器人公司——就是为了确保我们能够设计出某种可以被广泛应用、部署的东西，而这也有助于我们获取收集到的信息和数据，从而持续训练和改进机器人。所以这实际上就是背后的思考。
Original English think those capability is synergistic uh in terms of development because they share that same core ultimately you know in fact if you look at the the the process of you know vehicle development It's increasingly becoming more similar to a robotic robot than than a traditional automobile. So that's why I think there's signific significant synergies that we can actually share because the core that we focus on is actually on the intelligence and why we're going to humanoid robot is because we think ultimately with all the capabilities I mentioned the most versatile form that can impact people's daily lives is a humanoid robot because think about it you know the environment that we live in the the room here the office there the store you know the the the the the restaurants um all built for human movements and human occup um occupation. So um having a humanlike human robot which is what we trying to do unlike some of the other robotic company is to make sure that we can you know design something that can be widely you know you know applicable deployable and that also help us getting the information and data collect that can continue to train and improve the robot. So that is actually the thinking behind it.
>> 是的。确实，我个人已经等不及了。我觉得这绝对会非常棒。而且我还认为这会降低离婚率，因为大家就不用再去干倒垃圾、清空洗碗机这些所有导致离婚的繁琐家务了。但是，现在你们在这里已经是一个非常重量级的选手了，而且你们刚刚完成了融资，得到了阿里巴巴、腾讯等机构的支持。跟我聊聊现在的行业格局吧，这里似乎有许多非常厉害的参与者。
Original English >> Yeah. No I I personally I can't wait. I think is going to be absolutely great. And I also think it will get divorce rates down because you'll stop doing all the boring things like uh taking out the rubbish and emptying the dishwasher and all these kind of things that creates divorces. But um uh now you are a very serious player here and you just raised capital uh and have support from Alibaba and Tencent and so on. Um tell me about the landscape. There seem to be a lot of very serious players here.
### 行业格局与分类 >> 是的。人形机器人可以说在过去两三年里迎来了相当大的爆发。在国际上，有像特斯拉的 Optimus 以及 Figure 等行业巨头，它们一直展现出不同程度的能力，吸引着关注与资本。但在中国，我认为你同样能看到一个非常蓬勃发展的产业，涌现出许多初创公司，实际上一直专注于机器人产业各个维度的研发与探索。但我确实想说，在我们在中国所看到的这些公司中，你可以把它们划分为几种不同的类型： 有一类真正专注于本体，比如像宇树科技（Unitree）这样的公司，展现出非常酷炫、非常高水平的运动能力——它们能跑、能跳、能踢、能表演和跳舞。但你知道，它们非常擅长本体硬件，不过显然我们希望看到它们变得更加聪明，而这显然是它们目前尚未重点投入的方向。 另一类公司则更专注于大脑和智能层面。它们在训练机器人处理某些特定任务，但因为它们的资源和精力都集中在躯干上半部分，实际上并没有真正设计出具备良好运动和行走能力的产品。 然后还有第三类，比如灵巧手，也就是那些真正尝试打造核心积木部件的公司，并结合某些能够执行特定任务的模型。 这些就是现有的公司类型。但要说有哪家公司能真正将这三块拼图合而为一，将其统一成一款通用的、可部署的、能够规模化量产的人形机器人，这正是我们的目标所在。而且实际上，我们现在已经完成了这些不同模块的研发。 我认为归根结底，大家对机器人有着不同的看法。当然，业内有些参与者认为：机器人需要立刻进入工业工厂去执行某些特定任务。但别忘了，我们的汽车工厂里早就已经有工业机械臂在运转了。因此，只能用来执行某种固定任务的机器人，远不如能够处理更泛化场景、成为通用型机器人的产品令人兴奋。与此同时，正如我所提到的，归根结底，利用相关数据训练机器人并具备数据扩展能力将是成功的关键，而我们认为训练机器人的最佳途径——显然，你可以从互联网、仿真环境、第一视角摄像机拍摄中收集到大量数据——但最终，收集最精准、最有效数据的最佳方式，是通过部署真正具备最广泛通用用途的本体，并进行规模化部署，从而让你获得最佳的数据收集与训练效果。所以这些实际上就是我们所专注的方向，也是我们与中国业内其他参与者的不同之处。
Original English >> Yeah. Well, I mean human robot has seen quite a boom. uh in the last I would say two three years. Um internationally you have the big boys like uh Optimus uh you know from Tesla uh as well as figure and others that's been very showing showing various degrees of capabilities attracting attention and capital but in China I think you also see a really robust industry that you know you see emergence of lot of startups that actually has been focused on various type of development in robotic uh industry and and the process but I would really say that you know what we see here in China, you can group those companies into a certain different types right you have one type which really focus on the body uh which you can see the company like Uni Tree like engineer that shows very cool very you know high caliber you know motion capabilities they can run they can jump they can kick they can perform and dance u but you know they're they're really good at the body uh but obviously you know we we want to see them become more intelligent that that's obviously something you know that that that they haven't been focused on. The other group of the uh uh companies are focused on more on the brain and the intelligence side. Uh they are look training the robot to handle certain specific tasks but because you know their their resource and focus on the upper body they actually you know did not really design anything that has you know nice you know motion and and and and movements. And then there's the third group I would say is for example the Dexter hands you know the companies that really try to build building key building blocks as well as you know with combined with some models that can perform certain tasks. Um so those are the types companies uh but where I would say a company that can really put these three pieces together and make that unified in a common deployable volume produced uh humanoid robot. that's something that we aim to do and which actually we have now you know have completed uh I would say the development for these different pieces um I think ultimately um there's uh different views on on robots you know certainly there are uh industry players say okay robot needs to you know immediately go to industry factories to perform certain tasks but you remember you know we already have robotic arms that's operating our automobile you know v factories so you know the the the the robot that can be used to perform a fixed you know task is not as exciting as a robot that can handle more general and it can be general purpose robot. At the same time, I think uh um as I mentioned uh ultimately training the robot and with the relevant data and have the data scaling capability is going to be the key to the success and we think uh the best way to train robots. Obviously there's a lot of data you know you can collect from internet from simulations from egocentric you know sort of video camera collections but ultimately uh the best way to collect the most accurate and useful data is by deploying uh the the the the body that actually has the most general purpose application and deploy them in a large quantity that allows you to have the best data collection and training. So those are things actually I would say uh you know we're focused on that's different from you know the other players in the industry we see in China.
>> 中国的训练中心大量采购人形机器人来训练它们、收集数据并反馈给生产厂商，这种说法属实吗？实际运作模式是这样的吗？
Original English >> Is it right that uh Chinese training centers buy a lot of um humanoid robots to uh train them and to actually pro collect that data and then feed it back to the producers. Is that how it works?
人们这样做大多是为了将其部署到某些具体任务或特定用途中，我认为这仍然不算……我相信最终肯定会有玩家能够利用这种方式跑通商业模式，但我想说的是，终极的数据收集应该来自于常规的部署和使用，并对你所拥有的固定本体进行持续的迭代改进。
Original English people do that uh mostly for deploying into certain specific tasks or specific use uh which I think is still not um uh I I'm I'm sure there are players ultimately will will be able to you know uh complete a business model utilizing that approach but I would say is that um the ultimate um the the uh the data collection should come from regular deployment and use and continually improve improvement of that that robot that you have the the fixed body.
>> 电动汽车领域拥有如此众多的参与者，这对中国在机器人领域的能力有什么影响？
Original English >> The the fact that you have um so many players in the EV space, what does that do to the Chinese abilities in the robotic space?
>> 我认为电动汽车厂商有很多能力可以赋能机器人研发。例如，提供电驱动系统、轻量化、传感器、算力等过程。因此我认为这些能力，特别是对于拥有 AI 能力的电动汽车公司来说，其中许多确实能够赋能机器人研发。但这也取决于正如我之前提到的公司的基因根基。 如果一家公司的根基是一家传统汽车制造商，它们要向软件定义汽车转型就已经非常困难了，更不用说再进一步迈向 AI 定义汽车；要让它们立刻从汽车公司跃升为机器人公司，我认为在文化层面同样面临着巨大的挑战。因此我认为，这最终还是要回到公司的 DNA 和根基：究竟是谁能够真正利用好这种能力，并拥有创新的思维方式，让他们看清研发人形机器人所需要的发展路径。
Original English >> Well, I think uh the there's a lot of the uh capabilities I think EV player can empower robotic development. For example, uh you know the the process of you know providing uh electric powertrain uh you know lightweight uh sensors uh compute um so these capabilities I think especially you know EV companies that has the AI capability a lot of them can actually also you know I would say empower the robotic development but also goes back to the roots of the company as I mentioned You know if uh the root of the company is automotive player it's it's already very difficult for them to pivot towards uh let's say a softwaredefined vehicle and then move towards a AI defined vehicle for them to be immediately jump from automotive company to a robotic company I think it's a big cultural challenge as well so I think also it goes back to the the the DNA and the roots of the company that who actually can leverage that capability and have the innovative thinking allow them to see you know the the the development needed for you know human robots.
>> 那么制造这些机器人所需的各类零部件供应商生态系统又是怎样的？与美国或欧洲相比，中国的情况如何？
Original English >> What about the ecosystem of subsupliers of the various components that go into these robots? How how would that compare in China with let's say the US or Europe?
>> 首先，我认为机器人的供应链目前仍处于形成阶段。并不存在现成的供应商可供人们直接挑选来组装一台机器人，或者说，你不可能靠挑挑拣拣就造出一台先进的机器人。我们目前的做法实际上是投入大量时间和精力，与我们的电动汽车供应链合作，去发掘那些有能力在机器人场景中发挥作用的厂商。我们人形机器人所使用的许多核心零部件，包括灵巧手、电驱动、关节、电机、执行器，其中很大一部分实际上都是我们自主研发设计的，但显然我们不可能所有东西都自己制造。因此我们与供应链伙伴保持着紧密合作，以确保我们在这些零部件上拥有非常扎实的供应商支撑。我想说，我们的电动汽车供应链与机器人供应链之间的重合度超过了 50%。但其中大多数并不是现成可用的零部件，而是需要我们深入协同、共同设计，并确保他们能够供货的部件。我认为这大概就是未来供应链建立的方式，对于……
Original English >> First of all, I think the supply chain uh for robots is still being formed. uh there's no existing you know suppliers people can just pick and choose to build a robot uh or you cannot pick and choose to build an advanced robot I would say uh what we do right now is actually we spend a lot of our time and effort working um you know with our you know EV uh supply chain identify players who has a capability to be able to function in the robotic uh uh setting a lot of the parts that we use for our human robots including the Dexter hands, the powertrain, the joints, the motors, actuators. A lot of those are actually designed by ourselves, but obviously we don't make everything ourselves. Uh so we actually work closely with our you know uh supply chain partners to make sure uh we have you know very very solid supplier um for these parts. uh I would say the overlap between our EV supply chain and the robotic supply chain is more than 50%. But most of them are not readily available parts. Those are parts that we actually have to work closely and design together and make sure they can supply us and I think that's probably going to be how how supply chain will be built for for
### 芯片供应链与自主研发 这个行业。
Original English this industry.
>> 你们能获取到所有想要的芯片吗？英伟达芯片，以及所有这类芯片。我们实际上自己设计并制造我们的边缘计算移动出行芯片。例如，图灵芯片，目前已用于我们的车辆中，取代了我们之前作为移动出行驾驶技术首选高算力芯片的英伟达芯片。我想说，对于所有相关芯片，我们都有完全的获取渠道，没有任何限制。显而易见，我们确实必须承受大家在内存芯片以及其他成本和供应方面所面临的相同挑战，但到目前为止，我认为这是可控的。但从长远来看，我认为我们看到很多这类芯片实际上可以采用更多本地采购的方式，因此我认为这会让供应更加安全、更加有保障。那么你认为它们什么时候能够并驾齐驱？
Original English >> Have you got access to all the chips you want? Nvidia chips all these kind of things. We do actually design and build our own uh edge computing mobility chips. For example, the uh Touring chip which is now uh used in our vehicles replaced uh the the Nvidia chips we used before as the go-to uh high computing chips for mobility uh uh driving technologies. Um I would say the uh uh for all the related chips uh we have full access and we we don't have any limitations. we do have to you know obviously sustain the same you know uh uh challenges that we everyone's facing on the memory chips and other on the cost and supply side but so far I think it's uh within control but in the uh in the long run I think uh you know we see that a lot of those um chips uh we actually can tap into more locally sourced fashion so make I would say the the um supply more secure and more available. So when do you think they'll be on par?
>> 嗯，在车端方面，我认为我们生产的芯片已经能够与西方提供的最新技术相抗衡。例如，我们的图灵芯片拥有 700 TOPS 的算力，这与 Orin Thor、英伟达 Thor 类似，那是他们最新的芯片。因此，对于这些车载边缘计算移动出行芯片，我认为我们已经达到了那个水平，许多中国厂商都具备了类似的能力。但我确实认为，在 GPU 和其他种类的云计算领域，仍然存在代际差距，我认为中国企业正在努力追赶。
Original English >> Well, on the uh um vehicle end, I think we are already producing chips that can rival the latest technology uh that's provided in the west. Um uh so for example, our touring chip has uh 700 tops of compute which is similar to uh oring store uh the the media store which is their latest chips. So uh for these uh on board uh edge computing uh mobility chips I think we're already there you know a lot of Chinese players all come up with similar capabilities but I do think uh there is still generations uh gap uh exist in the uh uh uh GPU and other sort of uh uh cloud computing uh areas which I think Chinese uh uh companies are trying to catch up.
### 大语言模型的发展差异 你认为中国的大语言模型什么时候会超越美国的大语言模型？
Original English When do you think the Chinese language models will surpass the American language models?
>> 我认为这是不同的赛道。构建语言模型的两个生态系统正试图解决不同的问题，聚焦于不同的客户。在美国，拥有前沿模型，专注于为西方政府和企业提供高价值且安全的解决方案服务；而我认为中国的模型则更专注于服务中小企业以及新兴市场的客户，显然也包括中国市场，以确保模型易于使用、开源且成本低廉。因此我认为这是不同的侧重点。在某个时间点，我认为大家会看到依赖于这两种不同能力的生态系统出现分化。
Original English >> I think it's uh you know at the different race I would say you know the two uh ecosystems are building uh language models are trying to tackling different problems and focus on different customers. uh I would say in the uh US uh you have the frontier models that actually is you know focused on you know delivering high value and also uh secured uh uh uh solution services to western uh you know governments and companies whereas uh I would say the Chinese models are more focused on you know uh tackling uh I would say small medium companies as well as you know emerging market uh customers including obviously obviously Chinese market as well to you know making sure uh the models can be easy to use uh open source and also had a low cost. So I think those are different priorities. Um at some point I think uh you know uh you will see uh um separation of you know the ecosystem that rely on these time two different type of capabilities.
### 未来二十年的三维城市图景 >> 我们谈到了自动驾驶汽车、飞行汽车、具身人形机器人。20 年后的城市会是什么样？
Original English >> We talked about um self-driving cars, flying cars, uh humanoid robots. What is a city going to look like in 20 years time?
>> 嗯，我认为首先，在我看来，城市会分散得多。它不需要像今天这样存在一个中心，比如有 CBD 或中心区域，然后人们通勤，周围还有卫星城，人们依赖距离上的邻近来办事。随着自动驾驶、Robotaxi 或 L4 级——个人的 L4 级——的发展，可能就不需要这些集群了。人们实际上可以非常方便地通达偏远地区，因此大家实际上可以选择以更分散而非集中的方式居住。我认为第二点是，伴随这些技术，还会出现许多最后一公里解决方案。例如配送，如今有大量的配送，这些配送可能直接出现在你的门前、屋顶或某些指定存储点，因为它们来自低空，或者来自自动配送车辆或机器人。因此我认为这也减少了许多商品解决方案对最后一公里的需求。我认为大家会看到城市变得三维立体化，因为许多这类出行、许多这类高速通道将不再仅仅位于地面。在低空会有指定的通行廊道，在某些连接城市的线路上通行会快得多。因此，它拉近了城市间的距离并缩短了出行时间。最终，我认为在家庭和企业中，大家会看到许多维护、日常、重复性的工作以及流程都可以由人形机器人来处理。我认为这很快就会发生，显然这取决于人形机器人掌握越来越多任务的速度，但我认为大家会开始看到这种人口结构的出现。甚至可能出现这样一种场景：你在街上看到的人形机器人比人还多。几十年后，在崭新的现代化城市里，这可能会是一个非常有趣的景象。
Original English >> Well, I think uh first of all, you know, the city uh it will be a lot more dispersed my view. Uh it does not need to be a center unlike today, you know, you have a you know CBD or you know center area and then people commutes uh and then there are satellites people rely on proximity to do things. uh with obviously the uh automing or or the robot taxi or level four you know uh the individual level four as well uh you probably don't need uh these clusters uh uh people can actually have much easy um um access to remote areas so people actually can choose to live in more distributed uh fashion rather than a concentrated fashion um I would say the second part is that um with the um also the techn technology that there'll be a lot of last mile solutions. Uh you know for example um you know the delivery you know nowadays there's a lot of delivery uh these probably can appear uh at your doorfront or in your roof or or some you know designed uh uh uh storage it will show up because they come from low altitude or come from autonomous delivered vehicles or robots. So I think those also reduces last mile uh uh so need for a lot of the uh uh uh uh merchandise solutions. I would say you'll see um cities become three-dimensional because a lot of these travel a lot of these uh highways are no no longer just be on the ground. There will be designated uh corridors uh to travel uh in in in low altitude uh in in in in in certain uh uh um I would say um routes that connects cities uh so much faster. So it it's pulled together the city uh uh sort of distance and the travel time and and ultimately I think in home and businesses you see lot of uh uh maint routine repetitive as well as uh uh uh workflow that can be handled by humanoids uh that I I I think it's going to happen very soon and obviously it depends on how quickly the humanoids can acquire more and more tasks but I think you'll start to see the population. There may be a scenario that you know you will see more humanoids walking on the street than humans. That could be a very interesting site in a new you know modern city you know decades down the road.
>> 你认为我们会更快乐吗？
Original English >> Do you think we're going to be happier?
嗯，我认为，我希望随着技术的进步，你节省了时间，免去了繁琐之事，你实际上可以出行更远的距离，或者你实际上可以有更多时间去享受，实际上可以把更多时间分配给重要的事情。例如，专注于真正能影响你情绪的事情，真正花时间去思考你必须做出的判断，不是针对简单的任务，而是在更具哲学意义层面上。有些事情你实际上可以在不同程度上真正去探讨，因为现在我们 90% 的时间都被日常琐碎的任务和事项占据了。
Original English Well, I think uh I I would hope uh with the advance of technology and uh you know you save time uh you save hassles uh you actually can uh uh travel much longer distance or or or you can actually uh have more time to enjoy actually you can allocate more time to things that matter. Uh for example you you focus on uh things that really can impact your emotions. uh really you know spend time to think about judgments you have to make not on a simple task on a more philosophical sense. Uh there are things that actually you can actually at a different degree to really approach because now 90% of our time is occupied by routine task and and and and items.
### 个人追求与日常工作 >> 转向个人层面，在你的生活中什么最重要？
Original English >> Moving on to the personal side um what matters in your life
>> 我九年前加入了小鹏。我加入了我的朋友兼合伙人小鹏，他是董事长兼 CEO。我认为我们俩都想做这件事，因为我们之前已经有了各自的事业。我们不需要再去开拓一份新事业。我们想做这件事，是因为我们觉得这会非常有乐趣。我们希望看到世界真正被改变。如今我们有了自己的汽车。现在我去往不同的国家，看到我们的汽车行驶在不同的街道上，我感到非常高兴和激动。希望未来我们会看到漫步在办公室或商店里的机器人是我们的机器人。我希望看到人们的生活真正因为我们带给这个世界的科技与创新而发生改变与转型。所以，这就是驱动我们、同时也驱动小鹏汽车的力量。这就是为什么我一直在不断创新、不断前行。
Original English >> you know I uh joined Xpen nine years ago. Uh I joined my friend and partner Xiaoong who's the chairman CEO. Um I think both of us I think want to do this you know because we already had a pre prior career. We don't need to you know have a new career. We want to do this is because we think this is going to be so much fun. We want to see the world uh really be shaped. You know we have our cars now. Now now I go to different countries. I'm so happy and excited to see our cars in different streets. Hopefully in the future we'll see you know robots roaming uh in you know offices or in stores that is you know our robots. Uh I want to see you know the really the lives being you know changed and transformed because the technology and innovation we brought to to this world. Um so yeah this is something what drives us and also drives Xpan. That's why I keep really innovating and keep moving forward.
>> 是的，我同意，我们生活在一个令人难以置信的时代。太有意思了。你的一天通常是怎样的？
Original English >> No I agree it's as we live in an incredible time. Uh so interesting. How does your day look like?
>> 噢，我想说每一天都不一样。比如，我可以跟你讲讲我今天的情况。
Original English >> Oh, I would say every day is different. Um you know we uh for example I can just tell you my today you know
>> 你几点醒来？
Original English >> when do you wake up?
>> 我大概 7:30 醒来。我大约在 8:30 到 9:00 开始我的第一个会议。我谈到了我即将开始的欧洲之行，希望能在那里做一些激动人心的事情去推进。然后，我实打实地花了两个小时驾驶我们的全新车型 G9L。但最令人兴奋的实际上是在那辆车上试驾我们最新版本的自动驾驶软件。我开着车绕着城市转，测试了各种场景。非常激动人心。我看到了巨大的进步，我认为这让我们更有信心，我们或许不仅在中国，希望明年在欧洲的某个地方也能推出更多类似 L4 级的功能。所以这也是我们非常兴奋的一点。此外，我还将去了解我们在香港的业务拓展。我们需要制定一个新的研发计划，探讨如何真正与香港合作，利用该市场的各项能力、人才以及支持。然后，夜晚大概会以与一位合伙人共进晚餐结束，去探讨更多令人兴奋的事情。所以，我想说每一天都是不同的。你的焦点既在于经营业务，但更重要的在于思考未来。小鹏如何能够将技术带给
Original English >> I wake up around you know 7:30. Uh I you know start my first meeting at around 8:39. Um and uh uh I you know talked about my upcoming you know sort of a uh trip in Europe which will have you know hopefully some exciting things to do as to uh um to pursue. Uh, and then I had, you know, two hours of really driving in our brand new vehicle, the G9L. But most exciting is actually test drive the latest edition of our Thomas driving software on that vehicle. Uh, which I drove the car all around the city and test all kinds of scenarios. Very exciting. I see tremendous improvement and I think this give us more confidence that you know we can launch uh probably more level four like capabilities uh not just in China maybe hopefully next year somewhere in Europe as well. So that's something also we're very excited about. And also uh I'm gonna go um you know explore our development in Hong Kong. We need setting a new R&D uh uh plan uh for you know uh uh how to really work with Hong Kong utilizing the capabilities in that market uh you know with the talents and the support uh and then you know end the night probably with a dinner with a partner uh to explore um more exciting things. So you know I would say every day is different. Uh your focus on both running the business but also more importantly is thinking about the future. How expand can bring technology to
现实生活中，它如何能够拓展到更多地区、更多市场，并吸引全球各类人才加入我们，共同追求这一使命。
Original English real life how it can expand to more regions more markets and get you know the global you know sort of talents to join us to pursue this mission together.
>> 你是如何展望未来的？你会与谁交流，又会阅读些什么？
Original English >> What's the way you look into the future? Who do you speak to and what do you read?
实际上，因为我的背景，我曾经做过银行家，而且曾经是一名专注于科技领域的银行家。所以我在创业界有很多朋友。在这个播客上与你交谈过的许多人，实际上都是我的朋友。他们都是思想领袖。例如，Joe Joe Thai 是一位非常好的朋友，阿里巴巴的，他是……对，来自阿里巴巴。所以我和他交流，不仅向他学习，还向许多阿里巴巴的朋友学习；还有来自腾讯的朋友；Jensen 也是一位非常……我认为我们从他身上学到了很多的人。显然，当我们更多地利用 Nvidia 芯片时，我们过去经常进行合作。但同样，我的意思是，一路走来，考虑到我们所做的事情和所见到的事物，我们遇到过很多非常了不起、有造诣的思想家以及鼓舞人心的人。所以对我而言，能够接触到这些人，并且有能力与他们交流并向他们学习，是非常有收获的。我真的很享受这一点。
Original English I actually you know uh because of my background uh I used to be a banker uh and also used to be a banker who focused on technology. So I have a lot of friends in the entrepreneur world uh a lot of people who you talk to on this podcast are actually my friends uh I you know those are thought leaders uh for example Joe Joe Thai is a great friend uh he Alibaba is someone I yeah from Alibaba. So I I talked to him and really learning from not just him but also a lot of Alibaba friends you know people from you know Tensson you know Jensen is a great you know I would say uh uh person that you know we learned a lot from obviously we used to be uh uh you know uh collabing a lot when we are you know utilizing media chips more. Uh but again I mean I think along the way uh I would say given what we do and what we see we run into a lot of very amazing accomplished minds and and and and and and uh uh I would say inspiring people. So I think uh for me you know having that exposure and having the ability to talk and learn from these people is tremendously rewarding. I really enjoy it.
### 人生选择与最大遗憾 >> 刚才我们谈论了各种成功和美好的事情。但是，审视一些失败也同样重要。如果要挑选出你人生中个人最大的失败，你会说什么？那会是什么？
Original English >> Now we talked about all kinds of successes and great things. Um but uh we've started also uh it's important also to look at some of the failures. What would you what would you say if you were to pick your biggest personal failure in life? What has that been?
>> 我想说，我一直遗憾自己没有进一步追寻我的最初热爱。我的背景是，其实我的第一段职业生涯是作为一名科学家。我曾是一名化学家，因为我母亲是一名有机化学家。我上大学时，我妈妈就已经帮我填报了化学专业。所以我是偶然成为一名化学家的，但我真的很喜欢它。我获得了化学本科学位，然后继续攻读生物化学博士学位。其实我的博士经历可能是我最有收获的过程之一，因为我得以与我的导师 David Baker 一起工作。我不知道你是否认识他。他两年前刚刚获得了诺贝尔化学奖。实际上是他和我一起创立了那个实验室。我们俩其实是同一时间来到华盛顿大学的。他需要这位研究生，我需要一位导师，我们就是这样创立了那个实验室。那个实验室现在显然取得了巨大的成功，他也获得了诺贝尔奖。那绝对是一个非常有收获的过程。我当时想像 David 一样成为一名科学家，并尝试追求科学事业，但在中途，我想说的是，也许我也想看看实验室和学术界之外的外部世界。所以我算是在某种程度上偏离了科学，进入了商界。显然，先是华尔街，然后现在在小鹏。但我不会说这是我最大的失败，但我认为这是我的遗憾之一：如果我真的继续走下去，确保自己能在科学领域为世界解决重大问题，也会是非常令人兴奋的。我和 Dave 当时的课题其实是攻克蛋白质折叠难题，而他实际上在大约 20 年后做到了这一点。
Original English >> I would say you know I always regretted I did not pursue uh my first passion further. Uh you know my background is you know actually my first career as a scientist. Um I was a chemist because my mother was organic chemist uh when I started in college which my mom you know put down major chemistry for me already. Uh so I became accidental chemist but I really enjoyed it. I I got my undergrad in chemistry and then went on to pursue a PhD in biochemistry. And actually my PhD uh uh experience is probably one of the most rewarding process because I got to work with uh my uh professor um David Baker uh I don't know whether you know him. He actually won a Nobel Prize two years ago uh in chemistry and uh he and I actually started that lab together. We actually both arrived at University of Washington the same time. he needs this graduate student, I need a professor and that's how we started that lab which now became obviously highly successful and he won the Nobel Prize. Uh but that has been a you know very absolutely I would say rewarding process and uh um I would say that um I was at that time wanted to be a scientist just like David and also try to pursue a scientific career but in the middle I think uh I I want to say is maybe I want to also see the outside world other than the lab and academia. Uh so I sort of pivoted away from science and went into business and you know obviously first was you know Wall Street and then now in Xpen but I I would not say my biggest failure but I think that's one of my regret is if I actually continued on you know I would also be very exciting to make sure I can solve big problems for the world in the scientific area which you know Dave and I actually the the thesis was actually to unlock the protein folding problem which actually he did you know about 20 years later.
>> 你不觉得如果能拥有五种不同的人生，并把它们投向不同的方向，会很有趣吗？
Original English >> Don't you think it would have been fun to have five different lives and kind of shoot them off in different directions.
>> 嗯，我认为那是我一直梦想的事情，但我想在某个时刻，你必须一次专注于一件事。不过我认为生活充满了机遇，我认为只要专注于下一个机遇就好。这是我一直会告诉我的孩子们的事情：不要害怕变化。变化总是带来机遇。专注于、专注于下一个就好。
Original English >> Well, I think that's something it's something I always dreamed about but I guess you know at some point you had to focus on one thing at a time. Uh but I think life is full of opportunities and I think it just focus on you know the next one. Uh I think that's something I think it's uh I would always tell my kids, you know, don't worry about changes. Change always bring opportunities. Just focus on focus on the next one.
### 给年轻人的建议 >> 是的。再稍微具体一些，你对当下的年轻人通常会有什么建议？
Original English >> Yeah. And then just to kind of crystallize that a bit more, just what would be your advice to young people generally?
>> 我总是［叹气］觉得，对于年轻人来说，永远不要害怕改变。拥抱改变。实际上，回顾我的职业生涯，我一直认为改变会让你变得更好、变得更强。很多时候我们进入一个新的领域，无论是一门新的专业、一个新的地区、一种新的语言、一种新的文化还是一门新的行业，你会感到心生畏惧；但实际上，你应该对去学习感到非常兴奋。我的意思是，你现在真正进入了一个新领域，去吸收那里的东西。所以如果年轻人真的能够采取这种态度，我认为这种态度确实能够给他们带来很大的回报。
Original English >> I always [sighs] think you know for young people never afraid of change. Embrace change. actually you know I always think uh in looking back in the you know my career um you know change make you better make you stronger uh a lot of times we go into a new area you know whether it's a new profession a new region a new language a new culture or new industry uh you feel like you're intimidated actually you should feel really excited to learn I mean you can actually now got into a new area that you absorb what's there. So I think that attitude could actually you know um [music] really reward uh uh the young people if they actually can adopt that attitude.
>> Brian，这真是一场非常棒的对话。我觉得你就像是一位科学家［音乐］，而且毫无疑问是一位非常优秀的科学家；你们在公司所做的事情完全令人惊叹。感谢你让我们展望了未来。这太有趣了。［音乐］
Original English >> Brian, this has been just uh tremendous. I kind of think you are a scientist [music] you know and uh for sure a very good one and what you're doing with the company is totally mindboggling and uh thanks for giving us a you know kind of a glance into the future. It's been so interesting. [music]
>> 非常感谢你，Nikolai。很高兴与你交谈。非常棒。
Original English >> Thank you very much Nikolai. Very nice talking to you. It's great.
>> 谢谢。 非常希望您喜欢这期节目。如果您喜欢，请点赞、订阅并开启通知。这真的能帮助我们邀请到更多优秀的嘉宾。
Original English >> Thank you. Really hoped you liked the episode. If you did, please like it, subscribe, and put on the notification. This really helps us to get new great guests.