---
author: New York Times Podcasts
date: '2025-12-29'
guest: ''
layout: post.njk
source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8mCMe9MDpk
speaker: New York Times Podcasts
tags:
- legal-ethics
- principled-stand
- constitutional-law
- political-pressure
- law-firm-culture
title: 律师辞职风波：原则、妥协与美国梦的坚守
summary: 本文记录了律师Thomas Sip因其所在律所Skadden Arps与特朗普政府达成一项涉及法律伦理和政治妥协的协议而选择辞职的经历。文章深入探讨了Sip的个人背景、他对美国理想的追求、对律所行为的道德批判，以及辞职后的职业转变和对法律誓言与民主价值的深刻反思。
insight: ''
draft: true
series: ''
category: politics-society
area: society-thinking
project: []
people:
- Thomas Sip
companies_orgs:
- Skadden Arps
- Trump administration
products_models: []
media_books: []
status: evergreen
---
### 理想主义的萌芽与职业选择
本期节目重访了去年的一期精彩对话，深入了解了律师 Thomas Sip 的故事。Sip 曾就职于一家享有盛誉的律师事务所，后因其雇主屈服于时任总统特朗普提出的、在法律上存疑的要求而选择辞职。八个月后，Sip 在节目中回顾了这一决定性时刻。他坦言，即使在访谈开始前，他仍感到一丝紧张。Sip 的职业生涯始于一个跨文化背景：他出生在日本，父亲是美国人，母亲是日本人。十岁时随家人移居美国，不久后父母离异。在美国学习英语和融入社会的过程中，他开始理解作为混血儿的身份认同，以及美国独特的社会结构，这与他成长于相对同质化的日本形成了鲜明对比。单身母亲的抚养经历，以及在学习英语和适应新环境时遇到的挑战，如交友困难、因口音被嘲笑等，在他心中埋下了对不公的感知，但也同时吸收了美国关于希望和包容的理想主义叙事。高中时期，他加入了辩论队以锻炼公开演讲能力；大学期间，他在德克萨斯大学学习政治学，并获得了在**美国参议院**担任实习生的宝贵机会。这段经历，尤其是在国会大厦穿梭、与参议员和国会议员互动、旁听重要听证会的经历，让他坚定了投身于美国“追求正义、促进人人福祉”的“项目”的决心。尽管他承认美国并非完美国家，历史中存在错误，但他仍坚信当美国践行正确价值观时，世界会因此变得更好。
Original English Source
Hey,
it's
Michael.
This
week,
The
Daily
is
revisiting
some
of
our
favorite
episodes
this
year,
listening
back
and
hearing
what's
happened
in
the
time
since
they
first
ran.
Today,
we
return
to
our
conversation
with
Thomas
Sip,
the
lawyer
who
quit
his
job
at
a
prestigious
corporate
law
firm
after
his
bosses
gave
in
to
legally
dubious
demands
from
President
Trump.
And
we
hear
how
SIP
views
that
moment.
Now,
eight
months
later,
it's
Monday,
December
29th.
Thomas,
welcome
to
the
Daily.
>> Thanks
for
having
me.
>> I'm
getting
the
small
sense
that
this
is
a
nerve-wracking
experience
for
you
even
before
it
started.
I'm
just
seeing
it
on
your
face.
>> Yeah,
it
definitely
is.
I
want
to
start
by
asking
you
to
explain
Thomas
how
it
is
that
you
came
to
be
a
lawyer
in
the
first
place
and
ended
up
at
this
very
prestigious
firm
where
you
worked
until
just
a
few
days
ago
Scatteren
Ararps.
What's
that
story?
>> So
going
all
the
way
to
the
start,
I
was
born
in
Japan
to
an
American
father
and
a
Japanese
mother.
>> And
my
family
moved
to
the
United
States
when
I
was
10.
My
parents
separated
shortly
after.
And
so,
you
know,
I
was
learning
English
in
middle
school
and
also
learning
about
what
it
means
to
be
an
American.
[clears throat]
Suddenly
becoming
this
sort
of
racial
minority
because
I'm
mixed
race
and
coming
to
understand
the
social
fabric
that's
kind
of
unique
to
the
United
States.
Um,
especially
compared
to
a
relatively
homogeneous
country
like
Japan,
>> right?
and
you
know
growing
up
with
my
my
single
mom
who
doesn't
speak
you
know
fluent
English
and
getting
all
those
sort
of
experiences
I
think
started
to
put
me
on
the
path
that
I'm
on
now.
>> Can
you
just
explain
that?
>> Yeah.
I
mean
there
were
difficult
days
for
sure.
you
know,
whether
it's
not
being
able
to
make
friends,
being
made
fun
of
for
my
accent
and
stuff
like
that
that
really
I
think
started
to
form
uh
like
that
sense
of
injustice
that
I
think
fuels
me
sometimes,
right?
But
at
the
same
time,
I
moved
to
the
United
States,
you
know,
in
2008
and
during
the
election
and
there's
all
this
conversation
in
America
about
hopefulness
and
about,
you
know,
this
being
a
country
where
there's
a
place
for
for
anyone,
>> right?
And
so
I
was
also
absorbing
that
as
well.
>> Mhm.
>> In
high
school,
I
joined
a
debate
team
to
practice
public
speaking.
And
in
college,
I
was
studying
political
science
at
the
University
of
Texas.
>> And
I
had
this
wonderful
opportunity
to
be
a
an
intern
at
the
United
States
Senate.
>> Wow.
>> This
was
probably
basically
like
a
decade
after
I
moved
to
the
United
States.
And
suddenly
I'm
walking
through
the
halls
of
Congress
with
my
little,
you
know,
yellow
Senate
intern
badge
and
running
into
senators
and
congressmen
getting
to
sit
in
on
important
hearings.
And
it
was
during
that
time
that
I
really
decided
I
want
to
be
a
part
of
this
project
here
in
the
United
States.
>> And
when
you
say
this
project,
>> what
do
you
mean?
>> It's,
you
know,
a
march
towards
justice,
the
betterment
of
everyone.
I
think
there
are
these
like
core
principles
that
are
unique
to
the
United
States
in
many
ways.
>> I'm
getting
from
you
a
real
sense
of
idealism
and
a
real
pure
admiration
for
what
the
United
States
represents.
Yeah,
I'm
not
blind
to
the
errors
in
the
past
and
I
I
know
that
the
United
States
has
not
been
and
still
is
not
a
perfect
country,
but
I
really
still
believe
that,
you
know,
when
the
United
States
is
doing
the
right
things,
the
whole
world
is
a
better
place
because
of
it.
>> So,
talk
about
how
this
all
translates
into
your
decision
to
become
a
lawyer,
to
enter
this
industry.
Well,
so
a
lot
of
the
people
with
the
cool
jobs
in
DC
tend
to
have
law
degrees.
And
so
I
figured
it
was
the,
you
know,
the
next
best
step
um
afterward.
And
so
I
go
to
law
school
straight
out
of
college.
All
the
law
firms,
the
big
law
firms,
um
almost
by
definition
pay
the
same
scale
salary.
So
that
the
way
that
these
law
firms
distinguish
themselves
from
each
other
often
times
is
in
things
like
how
their
proono
program
operates,
how
how
invested
they
are
into
diversity
initiatives.
>> And
I
chose
Scatteren
because
it
had
the
prestige.
And
as
a
as
a
22-year-old
trying
to
pay
off
a
six-f
figureure
debt,
I
was
drawn
toward
a
higher
salary
among
other
things.
>> I'm
just
going
to
explain
to
people.
>> Yes.
By
Scatteren,
you
mean
Scatteren
Arps?
>> Scatteren
Arps.
Yes.
>> Big
big
law
firm
has
an
office
here.
New
York
has
offices
I
think
all
over
the
world.
It's
one
of
the
firms
that
we
think
of
when
we
think
of
this
concept
of
big
law
law
firms
that
do
a
huge
amount
of
work
in
corporate
America.
>> Mhm.
[clears throat]
That's
right.
And
Scatteren
really
advertised
two
things.
It's
proono
program
and
its
diversity
initiatives.
With
regard
to
the
proono
programs,
Scatteren
had
a
rule
basically
that
said
that
you
can
count
an
unlimited
number
of
your
proono
hours
towards
your
billable
hours
requirement.
And
it
was
a
big
deal
that
Scatteren
does
that
because
not
many
other
firms
do.
Original English Source
>> So
when
did
you
start
to
understand
that
Scatteren
had
entered
the
president's
crosshairs?
So
on
March
17th
when
the
EEOC,
which
stands
for
the
Equal
Employment
Opportunity
Commission,
>> basically
published
this
letter
listing
20
law
firms,
including
my
own,
saying
that
these
law
firms
are
essentially
under
investigation
for
their
practices
um
related
to
diversity.
>> Right.
I
believe
the
claim
was
that
these
law
firms
may
have
practiced
discrimination
through
the
application
of
diversity,
equity,
and
inclusion
practices.
>> Right.
And
these
executive
orders,
I
think
it's
worth
reminding
listeners,
they
can
feel
to
the
law
firms
that
are
being
hit
with
them
like
death
sentences
because
they
explicitly
prevent
these
firms
like
Perkins
Kuey
from
interacting
with
the
federal
government.
And
so
the
people
[clears throat]
work
at
these
firms
fear
that
they
may
go
out
of
business.
>> Right.
Yeah.
And
one
of
my
friends
from
the
firm
sends
me
an
article
that
the
New
York
Times
published
basically
stating
that
Scatteren
was
in
talks
with
the
administration
to
avert
an
executive
order.
And
this
was
after
Paul
Weiss,
which
is
essentially
a
pure
firm,
made
a
deal
including
for
$40
million
proono
commitment
to
causes
that
the
president
agrees
with.
And
during
that
preceding
week,
there
had
been,
you
know,
pockets
of
the
law
firm
trying
to
organize
some
sort
of,
you
know,
requests
from
a
response,
nothing
publicly,
but
at least
internally,
seeking
clarity
and
hoping
to
provide
at
least
some
input
into
what
the
attorneys
who
actually
work
there
feel
about
what's
going
on
and
how
so
many
of
us
believe
that
it's
unconstitutional,
>> the
executive
orders,
>> right?
Like,
this
is
not
a
difficult
legal
question.
There's
no
legal
basis
for
what
the
president's
doing.
It's
complete
abuse
of
power.
And
so
we
want
our
firm
to
stand
up
for
that,
>> but
we're
feeling
like
things
are
moving
really
fast
and
and
we
felt
voiceless.
>> Mhm.
So
what
what
happens
next?
>> So
there's
this
email
thread
that
got
around
to
parts
of
the
firm.
And
so
when
I
see
that,
I
realize,
you
know,
at
that
point
that's
pretty
likely
that
there's
going
to
be
a
deal
and
that
it's
going
to
be
one
that
the
attorneys
don't
like.
[music]
>> And
you
know,
within
hours,
I
think
we
again
find
out
from
the
news
that
there
[music]
is
this
agreement
and
then
we
hear
from
the
firm.
They
have
done
a
deal.
>> Yeah.
[music]
[music]
We'll
be
right
[music]
back.
I
just
want
to
summarize
what
is
in
this
deal
that
Scatteren
reached
with
President
Trump.
It
promises
to
provide
$100
million
in
proono
legal
services
from
Scatteren
to
causes
that
both
President
Trump
and
the
law
firm
both
support.
It
calls
for
hiring
what
are
known
as
Scatteren
fellows.
Those
fellows
are
at
least
some
of
them
supposed
to
be
focused
on
Trump
friendly
issues
and
some
of
them
have
to
be
conservative
>> in
their
ideological
outlook.
And
then
there's
a
part
of
the
agreement
that
vows
that
Scatteren
will
not
engage
in
quote
unquote
illegal
DEI
hiring
practices.
Broadly,
this
is
the
deal
that
every
major
law
firm
that
has
come
to
an
agreement
has
reached
with
the
president.
So
what
is
your
reaction
to
this
deal
when
you
finally
digest
it?
Personally,
I
felt
ashamed
to
work
at
Scatteren
and
that's
such
a
new
experience
because
because
of
how
you
know
prestigious
the
law
firm
is
and
then
suddenly
in
you
know
the
blink
of
an
eye
in
just
a
few
days
even
like
my
whole
view
of
the
firm
has
been
completely
tainted.
>> Can
you
explain
what
precisely
is
making
you
feel
the
shame?
>> You
know
it's
a
mix
of
things.
This
is
giving
the
president
a
PR
win
after
[clears throat]
being
bullied.
So,
it
seems
like
I'm
working
at
a
firm
that,
you
know,
isn't
as
high
caliber
as
it
said
it
was,
>> right?
But
more
importantly
than
that,
so
many
lawyers
agree
that
what
the
president
is
doing
is
wrong.
This
is
a
threat
to
our
constitutional
fabric,
to
our
democracy,
to
our
civil
liberties.
You
know,
people
should
be
able
to
be
represented
by
by
their
lawyers
freely.
Judges
should
be
able
to
make
decisions
even
if
it
goes
against
the
president.
And
to
see
Scatteren
be
complicit
to
aid
this
attack,
I
was
so
ashamed
to
work
there.
Original English Source
>> So
what
did
you
do?
>> So
I
start
actually
just
writing
down
notes
and
really
my
questions.
Some
of
them
are
practical
like
how
is
this
going
to
be
enforced?
What
will
it
actually
look
like?
And
I
started
thinking
about
it
and
finding
answers
and
so
the
questions
became
statements
and
I
realized
what
I
had
written
was
a
draft
of
resignation
letter.
So
that's
>> not
necessarily
what
you
set
out
to
do.
>> No.
>> Can
I
ask
you
to
to
read
from
parts
of
the
letter?
>> Yeah,
of
course.
>> [clears throat]
>> Dear
colleagues
and
friends,
I'm
writing
to
let
you
know
that
I'm
leaving
[music]
this
firm.
There
was
a
time
when
my
employment
here
was
so
unlikely.
For
much
of
my
early
childhood,
I
[music]
was
not
a
good
student.
I
struggled
to
focus
in
class
and
take
anything
seriously.
But
even
then,
there
was
one
subject
I
loved.
History.
I
thought
it
was
so
wonderful
to
learn
about
all
that
came
before
me,
[music]
about
the
triumphs
and
tragedies,
about
the
moments
of
individual
bravery
and
[music]
collective
complacency.
I
would
often
imagine
myself
faced
with
the
same
dilemmas.
What
would
I
do
if
I
was
there?
Would
I
do
the
right
thing?
It
always
felt
like
there
was
no
way
to
know.
I
believe,
as
I
know
many
of
you
do,
that
what
the
current
presidential
administration
is
doing
is
wrong.
That
we
are
sliding
into
an
autocracy
where
those
in
power
are
above
the
rule
of
law.
Scatteren's
agreement
with
the
Trump
administration
sent
our
country
deeper
down
this
descent.
[music]
And
then
I
finish,
Scatteren
is
on
the
wrong
side
of
history.
[music]
I
could
no
longer
stay
knowing
that
someday
I
would
have
to
explain
why
I
stayed.
[music]
>> What
did
it
feel
like
to
hit
send?
I
mean,
listen
to
your
>> breathing
right
now.
It's
like
you're
reliving
it.
>> Yeah.
Um,
>> what
was
it
like
to
send
that
email?
If
you
heard
my
breath,
it
felt
like
that.
Uh
maybe
a hundred
times
more
though
because
I
knew
that,
you
know,
that
was
a
pivotal
moment
in
my
life.
Maybe
maybe
just
as
pivotal
as
coming
to
the
United
States
in
the
first
place.
I
knew
that
I
was
closing
some
doors
and,
you
know,
a
place
like
Scatteren.
I'm
grateful
for
that
experience.
I
think
it's
only
possible
in
a
country
like
the
United
States.
and
I
really
really
believe
in
it.
>> I'm
sure
you're
aware
>> that
many
people
who
have
spoken
out
against
President
Trump
and
his
policies
have
experienced
at
times
ferocious
blowback.
>> Mhm.
>> It
can
be
a
lifealtering
event.
Is
that
something
you're
worried
about
now?
>> Yeah.
And
I
was
finally
able
to
talk
to
my
mother
after,
you
know,
resigning
and
she's
in
back
in
Japan.
Hm.
>> You
know,
with
the
rest
of
my
family.
And
I
told
her
I
quit.
She's
like, "Do
you
have
another
job?"
And
I
was
like,
"No,
mom,
you
don't
understand.
Like,
this
is
like
in
the
news."
And
she
sort
of
didn't
process
it
at
first.
And
then
she
started
to
cry.
And
she
asked
me
to
come
back
to
Japan.
And
I
said,
"No,
like
I
can't
and
I
won't."
Original English Source
>> Many
of
your
colleagues
are
not
leaving
their
jobs.
They
may
feel
the
way
you
feel
and
have
two
kids
they
have
to
put
through
college.
>> They
might
not
feel
the
way
you
feel.
I'm
thinking
about
reporting
my
colleagues
did
inside
the
upper
echelons
of
Paul
Weiss
when
that
law
firm
did
a
deal
with
Trump.
And
it
became
clear
that
the
majority
of
the
people
who
run
the
firm,
lots
of
them,
felt
that
the
best
thing
to
do
was
to
make
a
deal
to
protect
the
thousands
of
people
who
work
at
these
firms.
And
that
at
the
end
of
the
day,
what
they're
giving
up
is
small
compared
to
that
survival.
And
the
bosses
at
all
these
firms
that
end
up
capitulating
to
Trump
say
some
version
of,
"We
are
the
same
law
firm
after
we
did
these
deals
as
we
were
before."
In
fact,
in
a
companywide
email,
your
former
boss
says
just
that,
quote,
"This
agreement
does
not
change
who
we
are."
What
do
you
make
of
that?
>> I
just
don't
think
that's
true.
These
law
firms
are
agreeing
to
these
deals
when
they
know
that
there's
no
legal
basis
for
any
threat
executive
order.
And
by
capitulating,
they're
aiding,
you
know,
this
existential
threat
against
the
profession,
the
independence
of
the
judiciary
and
our
democracy
and
everyone
who
depends
on
it.
>> It
does
change
who
the
firm
is.
>> Yes.
In
short,
>> yes,
>> you
very
clearly
have
a
lot
of
faith
in
the
US,
but
at
this
point,
how
confident
are
you
given
everything
you've
just
been
through
that
the
version
of
the
United
States
that
seems
to
be
at
the
center
of
everything
you've
done
here
is
now
the
version
of
the
United
States?
confident
because
of
what
so
many
people,
strangers,
you
know,
reaching
out
to
me
have
said
to
me,
which
is
that
they're
also
scared.
Everyone
is
scared.
But
if
everyone
could,
you
know,
stand
up
and
speak
up
about
this,
then
we
can
turn
this
back,
I
think
we
can
save
it
still.
>> But
are
you
a
little
bit
worried
that
you're
making
the
wrong
bet?
>> Well,
of
course
I'm,
you
know,
worried.
I
guess,
you
know,
I'm
putting
my
career
on
the
line
for
this
and
I
I
knew
that
going
into
this.
I
have
student
loans.
I
have
a
single
mom
who,
you
know,
>> Andrew
just
publicly
picked
a
little
bit
of
a
fight
with
the
president.
>> That's
right.
>> I
wonder
if
this
experience
made
you
question
going
into
law.
>> No,
I
don't
I
don't
regret
becoming
a
lawyer
and
going
to
law
school.
It's
a
wonderful
education.
You
know,
even
my
time
at
Scatteren,
I
learned
so
much
and
it's
equipping
me
with
skills,
I
think,
to
advocate
for
what
I
believe
in
and
for
for
others
as
well.
And
that's
what
lawyers
do.
Well,
Thomas,
thank
you
for
for
coming
[music]
in
here
and
for
telling
us
the
story.
We
really
appreciate
it.
>> Thank
you.
Original English Source
after
the
break.
How
Thomas
has
fared
[music]
since
he
quit
his
job.
[music]
>> Let's
catch
up.
Okay.
Formally.
>> Okay.
You
look
well.
You
look
rested.
>> The
last
time
you
saw
me,
I
was
running
on
almost
no
sleep.
>> Well,
catch
me
up
on
everything
that's
happened
to
you.
Last
time
we
spoke,
it
was
just
a
few
days
after
you
quit
your
job
at
Scatteren,
>> right?
>> Suddenly,
you're
not
employed.
You're
not
getting
any
paychecks.
>> What
happened
next?
>> Uh,
came
on
this
podcast.
[laughter]
>> I
remember
that
part.
and
sounded
like
people
generally
liked,
you
know,
what
I
said.
And
I
got
so
many
heartfelt
messages
from
people,
you
know,
feeling
that
sort
of
hopefulness
that
I
feel
thinking
about
these
sort
of
democratic
values,
what
it
means
to
be
an
American.
Other
people
reached
out
because
they
felt
sort
of
maybe
a
kinship,
a
sort
of
common
background,
whatever
it
may
be.
There
were
just
some
parents
who
were
worried
about
their
kids
and,
you
know,
listening
with
their
kids
and
those
are
some
of
the
most
touching
ones.
There
was
one
in
particular
that
really
struck
me.
It
was
a
>> Can
you
describe
it?
>> Yeah.
It
was
a
a
father
driving
his
kids
to
school
and
they're
listening
to
this
episode
and
he's
asking
kids
his
kids,
"What
would
you
do
>> if
you
were
in
Thomas's
position?"
>> Yeah.
Exactly.
And
that's
the
sort
of
thing
that,
when
I
was
a
kid,
I
would
think
about
in
history
class.
And
I
don't
know,
it
was
a
really
great
feeling
and
it
gave
me
a
real
it's
like
a
win
in
my
back.
>> And
what
ends
up
happening
to
your
job
prospects?
Do
you
end
up
finding
a
job?
>> Long
story
short,
I
do.
I'm
currently
working
for
a
federal
judge.
>> And
what
can
you
tell
me
about
that
work,
how
you
got
it,
and
how
it
may
or
may
not
fit
into
the
way
that
your
last
job
ended.
>> Uh,
I
can't
tell
you
a
lot,
but
I
can
tell
you
some
things.
>> Okay.
The
judge
actually
found
me
through
his
network
and
mine
kind
of
colliding.
Uh
I'm
his
the
title
is
I'm
a
law
clerk
and
the
job
is
essentially
analyzing
the
law,
explaining
it,
making
recommendations
to
the
judge.
So
you're
basically
the
judge's
assistant.
I
know
when
you
clerk
for
a
judge,
this
is
my
sense,
you
may
not
be
able
to
discuss
a
lot
of
the
intricacies
of
your
work,
but
it
strikes
me
that
if
you're
working
for
a
federal
judge,
>> you're
potentially
interacting
with
President
Trump's
agenda
to
some
degree.
and
federal
judges
are
the
figures
in
our
legal
system
right
now
who
are
seen
as
really
the
most
powerful
and
important
potential
checks
on
this
president
and
I'm
sure
that
hasn't
escaped
you
either.
I'm
to
be
honest
I'm
not
going
to
talk
about
you
know
active
cases
that
may
or
may
not
be
before
my
judge.
because
there's
pretty
serious
ethics
concerns
about,
you
know,
clerks
typically
don't
talk
to
the
media,
>> right?
>> And
I
want
to
make
it
clear
that
the
judge's
job
isn't
to
be
a
partisan
actor.
It's
to
be
the
adjudicator
of
what
the
law
says.
And
as
you
know,
my
judge's
clerk,
that's
also
my
job
and
responsibility.
And
I
take
that
really
seriously,
>> right?
And
I
think
the
true
interpretation
is
that,
you
[clears throat]
know,
I
made
this
decision
on
on
ethics
grounds.
And
it
was
about
what
I
thought,
you
know,
the
law
was,
what
the
constitution
demands.
And
I
was
just
hoping
to
explain
my
own
decision
in
a
time
when
I
think
a
lot
of
people
were
facing
a
similar
decision
and
they
weren't
sure
what
it
would
look
like
on
the
other
side.
And
I
guess
right
now
I'm
speaking
to
you
from
the
other
side
of
that
decision.
Say
I
was
fine.
I
was
actually
more
than
fine.
>> There
is
another
side.
>> There
is
another
side
>> to
quitting
a
big
prestigious
well-paying
job
at
a
law
firm
on
principal.
>> Yes.
In
the
year
2025,
you'll
end
up
all
right.
And
specifically
speaking
to
the
lawyers,
not
everyone
in
America
can
safely
speak
their
mind
right
now.
Mhm.
But
lawyers
can
obviously
you
may
be
targeted
and
but
the
law
firms
that
fought
back
and
are
winning
in
courts
are
doing
fine
financially.
You
know
they're
not
they're
not
going
underwater
and
this
I
think
existential
fear
was
completely
overblown.
>> It
was
overstated
>> I
think.
So
it
was
a
excuse.
I
think
it
was
putting
profits
over
an
oath
that
lawyers
swear
>> to
protect
the
constitution.
>> And
you
know,
if
someone
like
me
ends
up
fine,
more
than
fine,
then
the
executive
partners
and
chairpersons
of
these
law
firms
>> who
make
many
millions
more,
>> right,
would
[snorts]
have
been
completely
fine,
too.
And
[music]
regardless,
I
think
the
oaths
have
to
mean
something.
[music]
>> Thank
you
[music]
once
again
for
your
time
and
your
cander.
>> The
the
pleasure
and
the
privilege
is
all
mine.
I
really
just
want
to
say
thank
[music]
you
because
you
were
a
huge
part
of
what
happened
to
me
a
few
months
ago.
You
changed
my
life.
Oh,
well,
[music]
you
changed
your
own
life.
We
just
chronicled
it.
[music]
Today's
[music]
Daily
was
produced
by
Olivia
Nat,
Shannon
Lynn,
and
Mooj
Zadei.
It
was
edited
by
Patricia
Willins,
Jodie
[music]
Becker,
and
Michael
Benois.
contains
music
by
Dan
Powell
and
Marian
Lozano
and
was
engineered
by
Alyssa
[music]
Moxley,
Rowan
Nisto,
and
Chris
Wood.
Special
thanks
to
Jessica
Silver
Greenberg.
That's
it
[music]
for
the
daily.
I'm
Michael
Borrow.
See
you
tomorrow.