Introduction

Interviewer: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Berkeley Chancellor Rich Lyons and Dartmouth President Sian Beilock.

采访者: 女士们，先生们，请欢迎伯克利校长里奇·莱昂斯和达特茅斯校长申·贝洛克。

The University Business Model Under Scrutiny

Interviewer: What an interesting time to lead a university in America. So many things to talk about, but I wanted to start with the premise that student loan debt seems to be a challenge on the young population, the emerging working population today. At the same time, government research funding seems to be getting cut back and there seems to be questions about the administrative overhead fees that are getting paid. What is the business model of the university today? The revenue and the expenses and what does it look like going forward from your point of view and how are you planning for that? Let's just start with that broad picture about the business model and how it's changing.

采访者: 在美国领导一所大学，这是一个多么有趣的时代。有太多事情可以谈论，但我想从一个前提开始：学生贷款债务似乎是当今年轻人口、新兴工作人口面临的一个挑战。与此同时，政府的研究经费似乎正在被削减，而且对于支付的行政管理费用也存在疑问。今天大学的商业模式是什么？收入和支出情况如何，从你们的角度看未来会是怎样，你们又将如何规划？我们就从商业模式及其变化的宏观图景开始吧。

Rich Lyons: There's a lot to that question. I'll start and will certainly have lots to contribute. At the top level if we think about how do we sustainably provide the fundamental and translational research that we're so good at that we're built for the education, really transformative educational experiences that many of you have had in these great universities. So one way to think about that is on the research side, if there is less federal funding coming in over time and I think that's a good bet, can we partner more with with industry are there other sources? Is there a way to gear philanthropy even more toward the kinds of research that we need to make sure we're doing? So, we are thinking about what that bundle that funding model looks like on the research side and on the education side as well.

里奇·莱昂斯: 这个问题包含了很多内容。我先开始，（申）肯定也会有很多要补充的。在顶层设计上，我们思考如何可持续地提供我们所擅长的基础和转化研究，以及我们为之构建的教育——那种你们许多人在这些伟大大学中所经历的真正变革性的教育体验。所以一种思考方式是，在研究方面，如果联邦资金随着时间的推移而减少——我认为这很可能发生——我们能否与产业界进行更多合作？是否有其他资金来源？有没有办法让慈善事业更多地倾向于我们必须确保进行的那些研究？因此，我们正在思考研究方面和教育方面的资金模式组合是怎样的。

Rich Lyons: You mentioned debt and an issue that that's become. I think what you would find whether at Dartmouth or at Berkeley that if you're coming to one of these institutions from a lower income family, you're probably paying no tuition and many of them are leaving with very little debt. So, to say there's all these higher education institutions and then to talk about averages, I think you you would be surprised at how much support lower income students are getting.

里奇·莱昂斯: 您提到了债务以及它已经成为一个问题。我想，无论是在达特茅斯还是伯克利，您都会发现，如果您来自一个低收入家庭并进入这些院校之一，您可能无需支付学费，并且他们中许多人毕业时债务很少。所以，当我们谈论所有这些高等教育机构并使用平均数时，我想您会对低收入学生获得的支持程度感到惊讶。

Sian Beilock: Yeah. And I would just add to that that I don't think education is one-size-fits-all. And at a place like Dartmouth, which is I would talk about it as a different kind of ivy, it is cheaper to go to Dartmouth if you're lower or middle income now than it was 10 years ago. And that's because of the philanthropy that we receive from amazing alums and families. And that is what we want to do. We want to make institutions a place where anyone can go regardless of background. Bring the best and brightest together and send them off without a huge debt burden. We package without loans. A third of our students go for free and they come out on average making more than they would otherwise if they hadn't gone to a school like Dartmouth.

申·贝洛克: 是的。我想补充一点，我认为教育并非一刀切。在像达特茅斯这样的地方——我称之为一种与众不同的常春藤盟校——对于中低收入家庭的学生来说，现在上达特茅斯的费用比10年前更便宜。这是因为我们从优秀的校友和家庭那里获得了慈善捐赠。而这正是我们想做的。我们希望让我们的机构成为任何背景的人都可以来的地方。将最优秀、最聪明的人聚集在一起，然后让他们在没有巨大债务负担的情况下走向社会。我们的助学金方案不包含贷款。我们有三分之一的学生是免费上学的，他们毕业后的平均收入比没有上过达特茅斯这类学校的人要高。

Institutional Responsibility and Student ROI

Sian Beilock: But I think it comes down to the institutions having some responsibility for pushing out students and making sure that they're not serving them in education that then they can't find jobs in. And so as we think about loan burdens and others, I do believe the institutions have a responsibility to their students. And I think we have to do a lot more in talking about ROI (投资回报率：用于评估投资效益的绩效指标) than we do right now.

申·贝洛克:但我认为，这归根结底是院校要承担一定的责任，确保他们提供的教育能让学生找到工作，而不是把他们推向社会后就不管了。因此，当我们考虑贷款负担等问题时，我确实相信院校对学生负有责任。而且我认为，我们现在需要更多地讨论ROI（投资回报率：用于评估投资效益的绩效指标）。

Interviewer: So just ask one follow up to that. Does that mean that we have too many universities in the United States and they charge too much generally? So you guys are leading two of the top institutions in the United States. Are all of the second tier, the third tier, the fourth tier that are providing perhaps negative ROI on the cost of their education, do they need to kind of get shut down or reformed or what's the future of that?

采访者: 那么我追问一个问题。这是否意味着美国的大学太多了，而且它们的收费普遍过高？你们领导着美国两所顶尖的院校。那么所有那些第二梯队、第三梯队、第四梯队的大学，它们的教育成本可能带来负的投资回报率，它们是否需要被关闭或改革？它们的未来会是怎样？

Sian Beilock: I think if you aren't thinking about the ROI and that is part of what you're delivering, it's a fair question to ask. And I also think that we've pushed too many people to think that college is the end all be-all. There are different ways to be successful in this country. I certainly think there's a place for an amazing elite education like Dartmouth if we are teaching students how to think and not what to think. But the idea that everyone needs to go to a 4-year college or university, I think that's outdated.

申·贝洛克: 我认为，如果你不考虑投资回报率，并且不把它作为你所提供服务的一部分，那么这个问题是合理的。而且我也认为，我们过去推动了太多人认为上大学是唯一出路。在这个国家，成功的方式有很多种。我当然认为，像达特茅斯这样卓越的精英教育有一席之地，前提是我们教学生如何思考，而不是思考什么。但那种人人都需要上四年制大学的观念，我认为已经过时了。

Interviewer: Shouldn't you the university be on the hook for these loans? And shouldn't you be responsible for the outcomes for these students? And would you be in support of having the loans and the amount of the loans match the desirability of the degree and its ability to monetize in the post-graduation? Or said differently would you guys underwrite the loans?

采访者: 难道你们大学不应该为这些贷款负责吗？你们不应该为这些学生的未来成果负责吗？你们是否支持让贷款及其金额与学位的吸引力及其毕业后的变现能力相匹配？或者换句话说，你们愿意为这些贷款承保吗？

Sian Beilock: Yeah, look I think we do at Dartmouth because our students are packaged without loans. They don't take out loans and in fact for a student in a middle income family, lower and middle-income family, it's about 5,000 a year to go to Dartmouth. So we do underwrite in that way. Now you asked the question about other institutions where students are coming out with high debt and low ROI. I think it is fair to ask what share of responsibility the institution should take and I do think that that's part of the reforms that we need to think about in higher ed writ large. I'm in favor of the institutions having some responsibility but and at Dartmouth we take that responsibility very seriously.

申·贝洛克: 是的，我认为我们在达特茅斯就是这么做的，因为我们给学生的助学金方案不包含贷款。他们不需要申请贷款。事实上，对于一个中低收入家庭的学生来说，上达特茅斯一年大约花费5000美元。所以我们确实以这种方式在承保。现在您问到其他院校，那些学生毕业时背负高额债务且投资回报率低。我认为，询问这些院校应该承担多大责任是合理的，而且我确实认为这是我们在整个高等教育领域需要思考的改革的一部分。我赞成院校承担一定的责任，在达特茅斯，我们非常认真地对待这份责任。

Rich Lyons: Well, the word responsibility. So, I'm an economist. Is responsibility the financial liability at the end of the day or as people have been saying, look, if we are not providing an economic pathway for our students on average at Berkeley, you're talking about Berkeley now or or Dartmouth, people will stop coming and they will stop taking loans. So, that market mechanism is working pretty well as it is and and we are producing really wonderful outcomes.

里奇·莱昂斯: 嗯，“责任”这个词。我是个经济学家。责任最终是指财务上的负债，还是像人们一直说的那样：看，如果我们伯克利或者达特茅斯平均而言不能为我们的学生提供一条经济上可行的道路，人们就不会来了，他们也不会去贷款。所以，这个市场机制本身运作得相当好，而且我们正在产出非常好的成果。

Sian Beilock: I'd push back and say I don't think the market's working exceptionally well because I think students are coming out overburdened with loans without the kind of job prospects that we have responsibility.

申·贝洛克: 我要反驳一下，我不认为市场运作得特别好，因为我认为学生毕业时背负着沉重的贷款，却没有我们有责任为他们提供的那种工作前景。

Interviewer: What would happen if we ended the federal student loan program?

采访者: 如果我们终止联邦学生贷款项目，会发生什么？

Sian Beilock: Yeah. I mean I think it's a interesting thing to think about. What I don't want to do is throw the baby out with the bathwater and that there are student loan programs that are really helpful to some students in terms of being able to go to the school they want and to get the education they want.

申·贝洛克: 是的，我认为这是一个值得思考的有趣问题。我不想做的是把婴儿和洗澡水一起倒掉，因为有些学生贷款项目对于一些学生来说确实很有帮助，让他们能够去他们想去的学校，接受他们想要的教育。

DEI, Merit, and Campus Culture

Interviewer: Is DEI the bathwater? What is the correlation between DEI and scholarship? Is there one?

采访者: DEI（多元、公平与包容：组织用于促进所有人公平待遇和全面参与的框架）是那个该被倒掉的“洗澡水”吗？DEI和学术水平之间有什么关联吗？存在关联吗？

Sian Beilock: I don't think having a diversity of thought and thinking about merit are mutually exclusive. I think that's a false dichotomy. We were the first Ivy League to bring the SAT back at Dartmouth and many of our peers followed. And the reason is we looked at the data and what we found was that it was a great equalizer in finding students from lower income backgrounds and higher income backgrounds who are succeeding in something that's less actually susceptible to financial input like letters of recommendation and what you did for the summer and a better way for us to find lower income students who are excelling where they are but maybe don't have the prep or the background. So I think it's a false that they're mutual.

申·贝洛克: 我不认为思想的多元化和注重才能是相互排斥的。我认为那是一个错误的二分法。在达特茅斯，我们是第一个恢复SAT成绩要求的常春藤盟校，我们的许多同行也跟进了。原因是我们研究了数据，发现SAT是一个很好的均衡器，能够发现那些在较少受财力影响的方面（如推荐信、暑期活动）取得成功的低收入和高收入背景的学生。这对我们来说是找到那些在现有环境下表现出色，但可能没有足够准备或背景的低收入学生的更好方式。所以我认为它们相互排斥是错误的。

Interviewer: There was no impact to the quality of the actual scholarship, what the professors taught, the language that was used, all this concept of like microaggressions, all this stuff that got in the way of teaching math and science. You don't think that happened?

采访者: 那么这对实际的学术质量、教授的教学内容、使用的语言都没有影响吗？所有这些像“微冒犯”（microaggressions）这样的概念，所有这些妨碍数学和科学教学的东西，你认为这些都没有发生过？

Sian Beilock: No, I think that we have to focus on our core subjects and merit. But I think the idea that I believe in diversity. I think we should have a diversity of people at the table from lived experience to political ideology. I think we have better outcomes if we can sit together and push at each other and I have conservative views on my campus and more liberal views on my campus and I have students who come from veteran families and students who come from the middle of the country and students who come from the coast. Bringing people together with different perspectives allowing them to push at each other you get the best outcomes.

申·贝洛克: 不，我认为我们必须专注于我们的核心学科和才能。但我相信多元化。我认为我们应该让来自不同生活经历、持有不同政治意识形态的人都参与进来。如果我们能坐在一起相互砥砺，我认为会得到更好的结果。在我的校园里，有保守的观点，也有更自由的观点；有来自退伍军人家庭的学生，有来自国家中部的学生，也有来自沿海地区的学生。将不同视角的人聚集在一起，让他们相互碰撞，才能得到最好的结果。

Interviewer: Did we spend any period of time I'm just curious veering away from what you just said or no? Is there nothing to see here?

采访者: 我只是好奇，我们是否曾有一段时间偏离了您刚才所说的方向？还是说这里没什么问题？

Sian Beilock: Of course. No, I mean I think I'd be the first one to tell you that I think higher education has a responsibility to reform from within. I think we lost sight of what our mission was. We're educational institutions. We're not political institutions. We're not social advocacy organizations. And just to say when we lose sight of that mission, people don't trust what we produce, whether it's the students or the knowledge.

申·贝洛克: 当然有。不，我的意思是，我想我会是第一个告诉你高等教育有责任从内部进行改革的人。我认为我们一度迷失了我们的使命。我们是教育机构，不是政治机构，也不是社会倡导组织。而且要说的是，当我们迷失了那个使命，人们就不再信任我们产出的东西，无论是学生还是知识。

Interviewer: How did it happen?

采访者: 这是怎么发生的？

Sian Beilock: You know, there's a lot of theories for what exactly went wrong. I think having strong leadership and being clear about what your values are is a really important part of this. I spent much of my academic career at the University of Chicago and I think that's a place that was very clear about the fact that institutional neutrality (机构中立：大学作为一个机构不应对社会或政治问题采取官方立场的原则) is the way to get the best outcomes, that we don't shout down speakers that we don't set up encampments that declare a space for one ideology. Those are all things we've been pushing at Dartmouth and we are excited about where we are going and the outcomes but we have work to do.

申·贝洛克: 你知道，关于究竟哪里出了问题，有很多理论。我认为拥有强有力的领导，并清楚自己的价值观，是其中非常重要的一部分。我的大部分学术生涯是在芝加哥大学度过的，我认为那是一个非常明确的地方，它清楚地认识到机构中立（Institutional Neutrality：大学作为一个机构不应对社会或政治问题采取官方立场的原则）是获得最佳结果的方式——我们不喝倒彩赶走演讲者，我们不设立营地来宣示某个意识形态的空间。这些都是我们在达特茅斯一直在推动的事情，我们对我们前进的方向和成果感到兴奋，但我们还有工作要做。

Rich Lyons: Beware the caricature problem because Berkeley undergraduates produce more funded new businesses than the undergraduates at any other universities. We lift more people further up the economic ladder than any other university in the country. And so, the caricature problem is very real here. Berkeley, I have been saying very publicly that we need to, I'm agreeing with what she just said that we need to move in the direction of institutional neutrality. I'm talking about viewpoint diversity all the time. Do we have some getting better to do? You better believe we do. We were thinking we were so tolerant. I think we weren't very tolerant of viewpoint diversity. And we're we have a new course called Openness to Opposing Views. It got launched this summer. 5,000 people have signed up for it. We have something called the Berkeley Liberty Initiative. It is exploding on campus. Do we have people on all sides of the spectrum? We sure do, but people keep pointing to one side of the spectrum.

里奇·莱昂斯: 要警惕被漫画化的问题，因为伯克利的本科生创办的有融资的新公司比任何其他大学的本科生都多。我们在提升人们经济地位方面，比国内任何其他大学做得都多。所以，被漫画化的问题在这里非常真实。关于伯克利，我一直公开表示我们需要——我同意她刚才说的——朝着机构中立的方向发展。我一直在谈论观点多元化。我们有需要改进的地方吗？你最好相信我们有。我们曾以为自己非常宽容，但我认为我们对观点多元化并不够宽容。我们开设了一门新课程，叫做《对立观点的开放性》，今年夏天推出的，已有5000人报名。我们还有一个叫做“伯克利自由倡议”的项目，在校园里非常受欢迎。我们的校园里有各种光谱的人吗？当然有，但人们总是只指向光谱的一端。

Admissions, Affirmative Action, and Fairness

Interviewer: How should I explain to our Asian daughters or sons if they don't make it into one of these schools because you have to admit somebody for diversity who got lower grades and a lower SAT score. How do we explain that?

采访者: 如果我们的亚裔子女因为你们为了多元化而录取了成绩和SAT分数更低的学生，导致他们没能进入这些学校，我该如何向他们解释？我们该如何解释？

Sian Beilock: We don't admit in that way. We're looking for students with great scores, great grades, and who have grit and ambition and allow us to bring a class together where people can push and get make better ideas.

申·贝洛克: 我们不是那样录取的。我们在寻找成绩优异、分数高，并且有毅力和雄心的学生，这样我们才能组成一个班级，让人们可以相互砥砺，产生更好的想法。

Rich Lyons: It's been the law since 1996 in the state of California. We can't use race or gender or affirmative action. It's literally illegal. We get audited for this all the time. So, if that's what you meant by your question, we don't do it.

里奇·莱昂斯: 自1996年以来，这在加利福尼亚州就是法律。我们不能使用种族、性别或平权法案。这完全是违法的。我们一直因此受到审计。所以，如果你的问题是这个意思，我们没有这样做。

The Impact of K-12 Failures on Higher Ed

Interviewer: Where's this coming from? And what's going on in K through 12?

采访者: 这些问题是从哪里来的？基础教育（K-12）阶段发生了什么？

Sian Beilock: I think we don't talk about K through 12 enough. I think we really have to go back. Our students are landing on our campus without having civics, without having practice engaging in difficult conversations. I mean, I think we really have to move backwards and not just think about the university setting because we're getting them much later. And for the we train all of our students at Dartmouth go through Dartmouth Dialogues to learn how to have conversations with people you disagree with. I believe it's like a muscle. You have to train it through practice.

申·贝洛克: 我认为我们对基础教育（K-12）的讨论不够。我认为我们真的需要追溯源头。我们的学生来到校园时，没有上过公民课，没有进行过参与艰难对话的练习。我的意思是，我认为我们真的需要回溯，而不仅仅是考虑大学环境，因为我们接触到他们时已经晚了很多。为此，我们训练所有达特茅斯学生参加“达特茅斯对话”项目，学习如何与你不同意的人进行对话。我相信这就像一块肌肉，你必须通过练习来训练它。

Interviewer: High schoolers are graduating woefully unprepared. It's not just the skills of debate. This is fundamental math, science, English, they can't read, they can't add, they can't write. What is happening in our primary and secondary high school education system? What is broken there that's delivering these kids to you so academically unprepared.

采访者: 高中毕业生毕业时准备严重不足。这不仅仅是辩论技巧的问题，而是基础的数学、科学、英语——他们不会读，不会算，不会写。我们的小学和中学教育系统到底发生了什么？是哪里出了问题，把这些在学业上如此准备不足的孩子送到你们这里？

Sian Beilock: I think they're they're both. And I mean, I'm not an expert in K through 12. I don't have all the answers there, but I'll say that one thing is that we're not getting rid of income gaps in achievement in K through 12. Students come into kindergarten at very different levels depending on their parents income and they leave at those same levels. If we were doing something important and successful in terms of education in the US, we would see differences and changes there.

申·贝洛克: 我认为两者都有。我不是基础教育（K-12）的专家，无法给出所有答案，但我想说的一点是，我们在消除K-12阶段因收入差距导致的学业差距方面做得并不好。学生进入幼儿园时，根据他们父母的收入水平，他们的起点就非常不同，而他们毕业时，这种差距依然存在。如果我们在美国的教育方面做了些重要且成功的事情，我们应该能看到这里的差异和变化。

AI's Role in the Future of Education

Interviewer: How are you guys thinking about whether higher education should even exist and what the role of higher education and classrooms and teachers and textbooks are in a world where I have a personal tutor available to me to walk me through the knowledge transfer at my own pace to think critically? AI seems to have the potential to play so much of the role of what higher education and even K through 12 education has played historically. Are you guys calculating for your strategic planning with AI and what does it do?

采访者: 在一个我随时可以拥有私人导师，按照自己的节奏引导我完成知识转移并进行批判性思考的世界里，你们是如何思考高等教育是否还应该存在，以及高等教育、教室、老师和教科书的角色是什么？人工智能（AI）似乎有潜力扮演高等教育乃至基础教育在历史上扮演的许多角色。你们在战略规划中是否考虑了AI？它会带来什么影响？

Rich Lyons: My daughter just graduated 3 months ago. She just finished college and I'm astonished by how much she has developed and I think most parents would have a similar experience. And I think if you stripped out sort of the knowledge, the part that you could easily access with AI, she would still astonish me in how much she has developed. That's a residential university and all the interactions and all the things and the challenges and the overcoming them. And so, the idea people were predicting with with massive open online courses the death of universities 15 years ago. And I really think that when you start realizing that's what makes it so darn transformative and at least any AI I've seen so far is not getting close to what we're able to do.

里奇·莱昂斯: 我的女儿三个月前刚毕业。她大学毕业了，我对她的成长感到非常惊讶，我想大多数父母都会有类似的经历。而且我认为，即使你剥离掉那些知识，那些可以通过AI轻松获取的部分，她的成长程度仍然会让我惊讶。这就是一所住宿制大学的意义所在，所有的互动、所有的事情、所有的挑战以及克服它们的过程。所以，15年前人们曾因为大规模开放在线课程（MOOCs）而预测大学的消亡。但我真的认为，当你开始意识到正是这些经历才使其具有如此大的变革性时，至少到目前为止我所见的任何AI都远不及我们所能做到的。

Sian Beilock: I think these uniquely human skills, there is such an important part of a residential community that allows that to come together. Dartmouth actually was the birthplace of the term artificial intelligence in a 1956 summer conference where people got together and talked. We developed BASIC. We were the first institution to put it in all the math classes. I thinking with technology is so important, but there is a human element of developing young people 17 to 25 that universities really can excel at. And I think that's one of the reasons that the culture issue and the idea that we're teaching students what to think instead of how to think has hit such an important point is because this is exactly what we should be doing. We should be teaching those kind of critical skills that allow students not to be in a safe space but a brave space where they learn how to be uncomfortable and interact with others.

申·贝洛克: 我认为这些独特的人类技能，在一个住宿式社区中是如此重要的一部分，它让这一切得以实现。达特茅斯实际上是“人工智能”这个术语的诞生地，它诞生于1956年的一次夏季会议，当时人们聚集在一起讨论。我们开发了BASIC语言。我们是第一个在所有数学课中引入它的机构。我认为利用技术进行思考非常重要，但在培养17到25岁年轻人的过程中，存在一个人类的元素，而这正是大学真正可以擅长的。我认为这也是为什么文化问题以及我们是在教学生“思考什么”而不是“如何思考”这个观点触及了如此重要的要害，因为这正是我们应该做的。我们应该教授那种批判性技能，让学生不是待在“安全空间”，而是进入一个“勇敢空间”，在那里他们学会如何适应不适并与他人互动。

The Role and Perception of Endowments

Interviewer: One of the things that has happened is that with the cost of of higher ed, there's been the emergence and the importance of endowments. And as these endowments have emerged, there's been a perception that there are side doors and back doors and all kinds of different ways in which to get into schools. The Varsity Blues thing is a perfect example of just the manipulation of the system that just again, people lose trust. What role do endowments play? How much influence do they exert when it's good?

采访者: 随着高等教育成本的上升，出现了一个现象，那就是大学捐赠基金的兴起和重要性。随着这些捐赠基金的出现，人们普遍认为进入学校有“侧门”和“后门”以及各种不同的途径。“大学招生舞弊案”（Varsity Blues）就是一个完美的例子，它揭示了系统的操纵，这再次让人们失去了信任。捐赠基金扮演什么角色？在好的情况下，它们能发挥多大影响力？

Sian Beilock: Our endowment is a way that allows us to fund students regardless of their ability to pay and our financial aid, we from our endowment hundreds of millions of dollars each year to support students so that they come out without loans and they're ready to go and that is because people believe in the institution. So it is an important way that private citizens give back to support what they're doing. And I think it is extremely important to what we do. It also funds our research. We lose money on every research dollar we bring in. We spend our endowment to create the buildings, to create all of the compliance. You can't make discoveries in the middle of Main Street. You've got to do that in a scientific enterprise where we are putting the skin in the game.

申·贝洛克: 我们的捐赠基金是一种方式，它允许我们资助学生，而不论其支付能力如何。我们的财政援助，每年从捐赠基金中拨出数亿美元来支持学生，这样他们毕业时就没有贷款，可以随时准备好走向社会，这是因为人们相信这个机构。所以，这是私人公民回馈社会、支持他们所做事业的一种重要方式。我认为这对我们所做的事情至关重要。它也资助我们的研究。我们每引入一美元的研究经费，实际上都是亏本的。我们用捐赠基金来建造大楼，来完成所有的合规工作。你不可能在大街中央做出科学发现，你必须在一个科学事业中做到这一点，而我们正在为此投入资源。

Rich Lyons: And if I may just add a little bit, our endowment per student is far far lower. And it's going into scholarships for our students and the accessibility. It's like what's the effective cost of these educations even with our lower prices. And also on the research end, we've got something called the Innovative Genomics Institute. A lot of that was philanthropic capital that came in and went into an endowment and CRISPR comes out of it and some other things that are changing the world, right? So it's really important that we have that kind of funding both on the education and research side.

里奇·莱昂斯: 如果我可以补充一点，我们的人均捐赠基金要低得多。这些资金都用于学生的奖学金和入学机会。即使我们的学费较低，这些教育的实际成本是多少？在研究方面，我们有一个叫做“创新基因组学研究所”的机构。其中很多资金来自慈善资本，这些资本进入了捐赠基金，然后诞生了CRISPR技术和其他一些正在改变世界的东西，对吧？所以，我们在教育和研究两方面都拥有这种资金支持是非常重要的。

Looking Forward with Optimism

Interviewer: I want to just give each of you an opportunity to talk about what you're excited about at the university that you're leading. What gives you kind of optimism? What are you encouraged by?

采访者: 我想给你们每人一个机会，谈谈在你们领导的大学里，有什么让你们感到兴奋的事情。是什么给了你们乐观的理由？什么让你们受到鼓舞？

Rich Lyons: We view these things, we hope you do, too, as some of society's most valuable assets. To what use shall we put them over the next decade? That's sort of what we've been entrusted with, right? And so if you said on the education front, for example economic mobility, what would it look like to double down on economic mobility when a third of our our students are already transfer students from community colleges, it's sort of like wow could we get even better at that I think we can. And as we think about the research it's like what are these fundamental seismic shifts you're thinking about the biology revolution or the AI revolution or or planetary and human health I mean these are things that you I believe we all need these institutions to be contributing to massively.

里奇·莱昂斯: 我们将这些（大学）视为社会最宝贵的资产之一，也希望你们也这么看。在未来十年，我们应如何利用它们？这正是我们被赋予的使命，对吧？所以在教育方面，比如经济流动性，当我们三分之一的学生已经是社区大学的转学生时，加倍努力提升经济流动性会是怎样的景象？我想我们能做得更好。当我们思考研究时，我们关注的是那些根本性的、颠覆性的变革，比如生物学革命、AI革命，或是地球与人类健康。我相信我们所有人都需要这些机构为之做出巨大贡献。

Sian Beilock: I'm excited about how we double down and make health systems better. I think that's such an important part of what we do as universities. And the second thing I'll say is that I am very excited about our students. We have one of the only bipartisan student-run political unions in the country co-chaired by the Dartmouth Conservatives and the Dartmouth Democrats. And those students are changing the culture at institutions. Last year we had a debate between Kellyanne Conway and Donna Brazil. We had Cornell West and Robbie George. They're dealing with DEI, immigration. They are talking about the issues and putting it out there and they're creating a culture where it's cool to have conversations and be uncomfortable instead of shout each other down. We should be excited about that because they are the next leaders of our free world.

申·贝洛克: 我对于我们如何加倍努力、改善卫生系统感到兴奋。我认为这是我们作为大学所做工作的一个非常重要的部分。第二点，我为我们的学生感到非常兴奋。我们拥有全国唯一的由学生运营的两党政治联盟之一，由达特茅斯保守派和达特茅斯民主党人共同主持。这些学生正在改变我们院校的文化。去年我们举办了凯莉安·康威和唐娜·布拉泽尔的辩论。我们邀请了康奈尔·韦斯特和罗比·乔治。他们处理DEI、移民等问题。他们公开讨论这些议题，正在创造一种文化——在这种文化中，进行对话和感受不适是件很酷的事，而不是互相攻击。我们应该为此感到兴奋，因为他们是我们自由世界的下一代领导者。