EN Topic: 60th Anniversary Discussion of Ontario's College System and its Current Challenges
ZH 主题： 安大略省学院体系60周年及其当前挑战的讨论
EN Participants: ZH 参与者：
- Steve Paikin (Host): The Agenda
- Ann Marie Vaughan: President, Humber Polytechnic
- Maureen Adamson: Interim President, Colleges Ontario
- Lyn Whitham: Business Professor, George Brown & Centennial Colleges
- Martin Regg Cohn: Politics Columnist, Toronto Star
EN Introduction and Historical Context ZH 引言与历史背景
史蒂夫·帕金： 六十年前的今天，安大略省一位35岁的教育部长在立法机构宣布，他将引入一个全新的高等教育概念。比尔·戴维斯就是那位部长。他说，人们在高中毕业后，需要的不仅仅是大学或工作这两种选择。
>> STEVE: 60 YEARS AGO TODAY, ONTARIO'S 35-YEAR-OLD MINISTER OF EDUCATION ROSE IN THE LEGISLATURE TO ANNOUNCE HE WAS USHERING IN A WHOLE NEW CONCEPT IN POST-SECONDARY LEARNING. BILL DAVIS WAS THAT MINISTER. HE SAID PEOPLE NEEDED MORE OPTIONS AFTER HIGH SCHOOL THAN SIMPLY UNIVERSITY OR WORK.
史蒂夫·帕金： 因此，安大略省创建了一个新的应用艺术与技术学院体系。
AND WITH THAT, ONTARIO CREATED A NEW SYSTEM OF COLLEGES OF APPLIED ARTS AND TECHNOLOGY.
史蒂夫·帕金： 学院体系取得了巨大成功。然而，如今它也面临着前所未有的挑战，所以我们认为60周年纪念是一个很好的契机，来审视一下目前的情况。让我们与以下嘉宾进行讨论：汉博理工学院校长Ann Marie Vaughan；安大略学院联盟临时主席Maureen Adamson；乔治布朗学院和百年理工学院商科教授Lyn Whitham；以及《多伦多星报》政治专栏作家Martin Regg Cohn。
THE COLLEGE SYSTEM HAS BEEN A HUGE SUCCESS. IT'S ALSO FACING UNPRECEDENTED CHALLENGES THESE DAYS, SO WE THOUGHT THE 60TH ANNIVERSARY WAS AS GOOD A REASON AS ANY TO CHECK IN AND SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING. LET'S HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH: ANN MARIE VAUGHAN, PRESIDENT, HUMBER POLYTECHNIC; MAUREEN ADAMSON, INTERIM PRESIDENT, COLLEGES ONTARIO; LYN WHITHAM, BUSINESS PROFESSOR, GEORGE BROWN & CENTENNIAL COLLEGES; AND MARTIN REGG COHN, POLITICS COLUMNIST, TORONTO STAR.
史蒂夫·帕金： 各位周年快乐，我想我们应该开始了。六十年前的今天，让我们回顾一下背景。Sheldon，请调出图表，向大家介绍一下安大略学院体系的一些背景信息。
HAPPY ANNIVERSARY EVERYBODY I GUESS WE SHOULD START 60 YEARS AGO TODAY LET'S DO A BACKGROUND SHELDON, LET'S BRING THE GRAPHIC UP AND TELL EVERYBODY A BIT OF BACKGROUND ABOUT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE SYSTEM.
史蒂夫·帕金： 第一所学院要追溯到1966年，是多伦多的百年理工学院。最初只有500名学生，主要学习文秘和护理课程。当时是500名学生，如今已有4万名全日制和非全日制学生。全省共有24所学院。整个体系拥有超过50万名全日制和非全日制学生。最新的一所学院也已经有30年历史了，那就是位于萨德伯里的北方学院（Collège Boréal）。
THE VERY FIRST ONE YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO 1966 IT WAS CENTENNIAL COLLEGE IN TORONTO STARTED WITH 500 STUDENTS MOSTLY SECRETARIAL NURSING COURSES. 500 STUDENTS THEN 40,000 FULL AND PART-TIME STUDENTS TODAY. THERE ARE 24 COLLEGES ACROSS THE PROVINCE. THE WHOLE SYSTEM HAS MORE THAN HALF A MILLION FULL AND PART-TIME STUDENTS. THE NEWEST ONE IS STILL 30 YEARS OLD COLLY H BORRIELLO IN SUDBURY.
史蒂夫·帕金： 好的，这是一些背景介绍。
OKAY THAT'S A LITTLE BACKGROUND.
EN The Mission of the College System ZH 学院体系的使命
史蒂夫·帕金： 好的，Maureen，您代表整个体系发言，所以我想从您开始。我们将从宏观入手，然后逐步细化。在过去的60年里，学院体系的使命是什么？
OKAY, MORE RAIN YOU SPEAK FOR THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS I WANT TO START WITH YOU. WE WILL START BROAD AND NARROW DOWN. WHAT HAS THE MISSION OF THE COLLEGE SYSTEM BEEN FOR THE LAST 60 YEARS.
莫琳·亚当森： 嗯，使命一直很明确：确保任何人都能获得高等教育。非常重要的一点是，并非每个人都想上大学，并非每个人都想成为医生或律师。这些学院分布在各个社区，当地学院可以为社区繁荣提供所需的本地劳动力。这样每个人都有机会接受高等教育。这涵盖了所有这些领域。如果你看看现任政府的施政纲领，推进电气化。学院在其中扮演着重要角色。
>> MAUREEN: WELL, THE MISSION HAS BEEN CLEAR IT HAS BEEN TO ENSURE THAT ANYBODY CAN HAVE ACCESS TO HIGHER EDUCATION. REALLY IMPORTANT THAT NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO GO TO UNIVERSITY NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE A DOCTOR OR LAWYER AND THAT THESE COLLEGES ARE LOCATED IN COMMUNITIES WHERE THE COLLEGE LOCAL CAN PROVIDE THE LOCAL WORKFORCE THAT IS NEEDED TO PROSPER IN THE COMMUNITIES AND THEN EVERYBODY GETS A CHANCE AT HIGHER EDUCATION. IT IS IN ALL OF THOSE FIELDS IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLATFORM OF THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT ADVANCE ELECTRIFICATION. THAT IS WERE COLLEGES PAYROLL.
史蒂夫·帕金： 校长女士，您的具体职责是什么？
>> STEVE: MADAM PRESIDENT. YOUR SPECIFIC ROLE IS WHAT.
安·玛丽·沃恩： 对于汉博学院来说，我们在怡陶碧谷地区有几个主要的服務领域。但我们也在全省范围内发挥作用。通过衔接协议，我们在汉博学院提供31个学士学位。我们正在向研究生学位发展。因此，我们认为自己深深植根于雷克斯代尔、怡陶碧谷、湖滨社区，具有全球化的思维方式，同时也为整个学院体系内的学生提供这种升学途径的机会。
>> SPEAKER: FOR HUMBER WE HAVE A FEW AREAS THAT WE ARE MEANT TO SERVE IN THE ETOBICOKE REGION. BUT WE ALSO PLAY A ROLE PROVINCIALLY THROUGH PATHWAY AGREEMENTS WE HAVE 31 BACHELOR DEGREES AT HUMBERT WERE MOVING INTO GRADUATE DEGREES. SO WE LIKE TO THINK OF OURSELVES AS BEING REALLY ROOTED IN THE REXDALE ETOBICOKE, LAKESHORE COMMUNITY. BEING GLOBAL IN HOW WE THINK. BUT ALSO IN PROVIDING THAT PATHWAY OPPORTUNITY FOR STUDENTS WITHIN THE ENTIRE COLLEGE SYSTEM.
史蒂夫·帕金： Lynn，您在乔治布朗学院和百年理工学院教什么课程？
>> STEVE: LYNN, WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN TEACHING AT GEORGE BROWN AND CENTENNIAL.
林恩·惠特姆： 我曾在乔治布朗学院的商科市场营销领域任教，并在百年理工学院的媒体与艺术设计学院任教。
>> LYN: APPETITE IN THE BUSINESS GOT THE MARKETING AREA GEORGE BROWN AND UPTIGHT IN THE SCHOOL OF MEDIA AND ARTS AND DESIGN A CENTENNIAL.
史蒂夫·帕金： 您认为您对学生的使命是什么？
>> STEVE: AND WHAT DO YOU SEE IS YOUR MISSION WITH YOUR STUDENTS?
林恩·惠特姆： 我的职业生涯丰富多彩，做过很多不同的事情，但我必须说，教书是所有职业中最有价值的。
>> LYN: I'VE HAD A VARIED CAREER AND HAVE DONE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS BUT I HAVE TO SAY THAT TEACHING HAS BEEN THE MOST REWARDING OF ALL THE CAREERS.
史蒂夫·帕金： 比和我一起在CBC工作40年更有价值？我非常失望。
>> STEVE: MORE THAN WORKING WITH ME AT CBC FOR 40 YEARS AND VERY DISAPPOINTED.
林恩·惠特姆： 我爱CBC，也爱您。但我知道教书是最有价值的工作。我教过学位课程的学生，也教过已经拥有学位的学生，赋予他们生活中取得成功所需的技能。这让我感到非常满足。我和我所有的学生都保持联系，所以我能看到他们在职业生涯中不断前进。我为他们所有人感到非常骄傲。我的使命就是赋予他们职业成功所需的技能，我对此非常认真。
>> LYN: I LOVE THE CBC IN YOU. BUT I KNOW IT'S BEEN THE MOST REWARDING WORK SO I HAVE TAUGHT STUDENTS AND THE DEGREE PROGRAM I HAVE TAUGHT STUDENTS WITH DEGREES GIVING THEM THE SKILLS THEY NEED TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN LIFE. AND IT HAS BEEN RATIFYING I AM LINKED INTO ALL MY STUDENT SO I SEE THEM NAVIGATE THEIR WAY THROUGH THEIR CAREERS. I'M VERY PROUD OF ALL OF THEM. IN MY MISSION IS TO GIVE THEM THE SKILLS TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THEIR CAREERS AND I TAKE THAT VERY SERIOUSLY.
EN Challenges and "University Creep" ZH 挑战与“大学化蔓延”
史蒂夫·帕金： Martin，我们邀请您来，因为您不属于这个体系；您可以从局外人的角度，谈谈在学院体系引入60年后的今天，您认为它是否成功。那么，您看到了什么？
>> STEVE: YOU WE WANT YOU HERE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SYSTEM YOU CAN GIVE US AN OUTSIDER'S PERSPECTIVE ON HOW SUCCESSFUL OR NOT YOU FEEL THE COLLEGE SYSTEM IS 60 YEARS TO THE DAY. SINCE IS WAS INTRODUCED SO WHAT YOU SEE.
马丁·雷格·科恩： 非常成功。我们听到了很多积极的评价。但是比尔·戴维斯提出的问题，他面临的挑战，是介于高中和大学之间的某种东西。所以学院做了很多伟大的事情，但它们不可能做所有的事情。我认为这是它们今天面临的挑战。如果你想想几年前我写了篇文章后，一位学院教授对我说的话，他说：“大学是教学生‘为什么’，而学院应该是教‘怎么做’。”这听起来可能有点严厉或局限。但是这些年来，学院出现了许多“大学化蔓延”的现象。结果可能是它们有些操之过急了，也因此面临一些限制和挑战。
>> SPEAKER: AMAZINGLY SUCCESSFUL WERE HEARING A LOT OF GOOD THINGS BUT THE QUESTION THAT BILL DAVIS RAISED HIS CHALLENGE WAS SOMETHING BETWEEN HIGH SCHOOL AND UNIVERSITIES. SO COLLEGES DO GREAT THINGS BUT THEY CANNOT DO EVERYTHING AND I THINK THAT IS THE CHALLENGE THAT THEY FACE TODAY. IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT A COLLEGE PROFESSOR TOLD ME A COUPLE YEARS AGO AFTER I WROTE SOMETHING HE SAID, UNIVERSITIES ARE ABOUT TEACHING STUDENTS OF WINE AND COLLEGES SHOULD BE THE HOW. THAT MAY SEEM A LITTLE BIT SEVERE OR CONSTRICTING. BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF UNIVERSITY CREEP BY COLLEGES OVER THE YEARS THEY MAY HAVE GOTTEN AHEAD OF THEIR SKIS AS A RESULT AND THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF CONSTRAINT AND CHALLENGE THAT THEY'RE FACING.
史蒂夫·帕金： 我可以告诉您，比尔·戴维斯过去常常打电话给时任省长的凯瑟琳·韦恩说：“不要再让学院变成大学了。”它们都在努力变得更像大学。你们现在授予的是学位，而不是文凭。
>> STEVE: BILL DAVIS I CAN TELL YOU USED TO CALL KATHLEEN WYNNE WHEN SHE WAS PREMIER AND SAY DON'T LET ANY MORE COLLEGES BECOME UNIVERSITIES THEY'RE ALL TRYING TO BECOME A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE THAT. YOU'RE GIVING DEGREES OUT AS OPPOSED TO DIPLOMAS.
安·玛丽·沃恩： 是的。我们提供的与大学的体验非常不同。现在很多大学生转向我们的领域，因为他们想要一些应用经验，以便进入劳动力市场。所以我们提供的每一个学位都与劳动力市场的需求高度契合。在进入学院领域之前，我在大学工作了20年。我们提供的内容和方式与大学领域有很大不同。这并不意味着任何一方的价值较低。这对学生来说是一种不同的体验。
>> SPEAKER: WE ARE, WHAT WERE OFFERING IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE UNIVERSITY EXPERIENCE IS SO MANY UNIVERSITY STUDENTS TURNED TO OUR SECTOR NOW BECAUSE THEY WANT SOME APPLIED EXPERIENCE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO GO INTO THE LABOUR MARKET. SO EVERY DEGREE THAT WE OFFER IS VERY MUCH ALIGNED WITH THE LABOUR MARKET'S NEEDS. AND I'VE WORKED IN UNIVERSITY FOR 20 YEARS BEFORE I MOVE TO THE COLLEGE SECTOR. THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE AND WHAT WE OFFER AND HOW WE OFFER IT VERSUS WHAT THE UNIVERSITY SECTOR DOES. AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S ANY LESS VALUE OF EITHER. IT'S A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE FOR STUDENTS.
史蒂夫·帕金： 我正想说。
>> STEVE: I WAS GOING TO SAY.
莫琳·亚当森： 这是一条通往就业的道路。
>&: IT IS A PATHWAY TO EMPLOYMENT.
林恩·惠特姆： 大学也在蚕食学院的领域。这是一个双向的操作。你会看到越来越多的应用型证书出现在学位中，证书课程也在取代学院所做的事情。所以双方都在受到侵蚀。
>> LYN: THE UNIVERSITIES ARE ENCROACHING ON WHAT THE COLLEGES DO AS WELL, IT'S A TWO-WAY OPERATION YOU'RE SEEING MORE APPLIED CERTIFICATES IN THE BREEZE AND CERTIFICATES TAKING OVER WHAT THE COLLEGES DO SO THERE IS A CORROSION ON BOTH SIDES.
史蒂夫·帕金： 不过，回到Martin的观点，如果双方都，请原谅我用这个表达，各司其职，这对安大略省是最好的吗？
>> STEVE: TO MARTIN'S POINT THOUGH. IS THAT BEST FOR THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO ELITE SIDE FORGIVE THIS EXPRESSION STICKS TO ITS KNITTING.
安·玛丽·沃恩： 我认为我们的经济已经改变，我们的技术发展如此迅速，坦率地说，那种分界线已经不再可行或有益。我认为教育是一个连续体。你可以在学院开始，然后在大学或其他学院获得学位。我认为我们需要灵活应变，而学院在应对劳动力市场需求和我们每天面临的新技术方面非常灵活。
>> SPEAKER: I THINK THAT OUR ECONOMY HAS CHANGED OUR TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED SO RAPIDLY THAT THAT SORT OF A DIVIDER IS NO LONGER FEASIBLE OR HELPFUL, TO BE HONEST. I THINK THERE IS A CONTINUUM OF EDUCATION YOU CAN START AT A COLLEGE AND A DEGREE AT A UNIVERSITY OR ANOTHER COLLEGE AND I THINK WE NEED TO BE NIMBLE AND COLLEGES ARE VERY NIMBLE IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO RESPOND TO LABOUR MARKET NEEDS. IN THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES THAT WERE FACING EVERY DAY.
史蒂夫·帕金： 事实上，我20年前就听说过一件事：人们上大学，拿到学位，然后去学院，因为在学会批判性思考之后，他们想从事一些更注重职业发展的事情。这种情况很多。
>> STEVE: IN FACT, ONE OF THE THINGS I HEARD 20 YEARS AGO. PEOPLE GOING TO UNIVERSITIES GETTING THEIR DEGREE AND THEN GOING TO COLLEGE BECAUSE NOW THAT THEY'VE LEARNED HOW TO THINK CRITICALLY THEY WANTED TO GET INTO SOMETHING MORE CAREER FOCUS A LOT OF THAT.
莫琳·亚当森： 今天仍在发生。有很多这样的情况，而且正如他们所说，最终进入学院和大学，反之亦然。但是，你无法取代学院为毕业生提供的、使他们能够完全胜任工作的学习内容。
>> SPEAKER: HAPPENING TODAY THERE'S LOTS OF THAT HAPPENING AND TO THEIR POINT AND ENDING COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES IN THE OTHER WAY AROUND. BUT YOU CANNOT REPLACE THE LEARNING THAT IS PROVIDED OUT OF COLLEGE FOR GRADUATES TO BE ABSOLUTELY JAILBREAKING.
马丁·雷格·科恩： 这正好回应了您刚才说的。如果你想想魁北克多年前宣布的CEGEP（普通与职业教育学院）体系，人们先进入CEGEP，然后进入大学。这其中存在一些转换。我们现在讨论的，就是这种灰色地带。你听到关于学院“大学化蔓延”的说法，我愿意为此“挡枪”，并提出一些异议。先上大学，然后通过学院这个更具针对性、更贴近就业的“进修学校”来完成学业，这不失为一种有益的途径。但毫无疑问，学院确实存在“大学化蔓延”的现象。这其中也有原因，那就是大学能从学生身上获得更多资金，更容易维持现金流。我们今天会谈到各种各样的财政和政治扭曲。但当学院和大学开始变得一样时，比尔·戴维斯的使命就改变了。
>> SPEAKER: AND THAT'S A QUICK POINT TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE QUEBEC SYSTEM OF SEIZURE THAT WAS ANNOUNCED MANY YEARS AGO PEOPLE GO INTO THAT AND THEN UNIVERSITY AND THERE ARE SOME CONVERSIONS IS WHAT WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THAT GRAIN YOU HEAR ABOUT UNIVERSITY CREEP AND I THROW MYSELF ON THAT GRENADE FOR YOU AND TAKE SOME IS USEFUL TO GO TO UNIVERSITY AND FINISH OFF WITH A MORE SPECIFIC JOB SENSITIVE FINISHING SCHOOL AS IT WERE OUT OF COLLEGE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE HAS BEEN UNIVERSITY CREEP BY THE COLLEGES AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT AS WELL, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSITIES GET MORE MONEY FOR STUDENTS IT'S EASIER TO FINANCE THE CASH FLOW. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL DISTORTIONS WE WILL TALK ABOUT TODAY. BUT WHEN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES START TO BE THE SAME BILL DAVIS' MISSION IS CHANGED.
EN The Impact of International Students and Funding Gaps ZH 国际学生的影响与资金缺口
史蒂夫·帕金： 让我们谈谈这个，Lynn，我想听听您的看法。因为这些年来我和人们谈论过这个问题，并且我们在引言中也暗示过，人们看到学院体系目前发生的一些事情引起了极大的关注。不如就从您开始，您能否告诉我们，与您10-12年前刚开始教书时相比，您现在在一线教学中有什么不同的体验？区别是什么？
>> STEVE: LET'S, LYNN I WANT TO BRING YOU IN ON THIS. BECAUSE TO THE EXTENT THAT I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS OVER THIS. AND WE HINTED AT THIS IN THE INTRODUCTION. PEOPLE ARE SEEING THINGS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE COLLEGE SYSTEM THAT'S CAUSING A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN. WHY DON'T I JUST START WITH YOU AND YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR FIRST HAND FRONT LINE EXPERIENCE IS WITH WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE PERHAPS BEEN ABLE TO DO 10-12 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED TEACHING VERSUS TODAY WAS A DIFFERENCE.
林恩·惠特姆： 学生不同了。我们面临国际学生上限的问题。疫情之后，进入系统的国际学生数量问题变得更加尖锐。而且我相信，可以肯定地说，存在滥用现象。在招生方面存在滥用，一些国家的招生中介将学生送到这里的学院。一些学生利用学院系统和教育作为获得加拿大移民身份的途径，他们对教育的投入可能没有应有的那么强烈。学院鼓励招收国际学生是因为存在资金缺口。
>> SPEAKER: THE STUDENTS ARE DIFFERENT. SO WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENT CAP. AND AFTER THE PANDEMIC IT BECAME EVEN MORE ACUTE, THE NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT HAD COME INTO THE SYSTEM. AND IT'S SAFE TO SAY I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE ABUSES THERE WERE ABUSES IN TERMS OF RECRUITERS IN COUNTRIES GETTING THOSE STUDENTS TO THE COLLEGES HERE. SOME STUDENTS USE THE COLLEGE SYSTEM AND EDUCATION AS A WAY TO GET IMMIGRATION STATUS IN CANADA AND THEIR COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. COLLEGES ENCOURAGE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS BECAUSE OF THE FUNDING GAP.
史蒂夫·帕金：他们支付更高的学费。
STEVE: THEY PAY MORE.
林恩·惠特姆：他们支付的费用要高得多。而且存在巨大的资金缺口。从学院刚成立时，以及比尔·戴维斯对学院的设想（我认为非常出色）来看，学院大约80%的预算资金来自政府拨款。如今，这个比例在20%左右。所以想想这80%的缺口。因此，国际学生填补了这个财政缺口。问题是，他们对此并不那么感兴趣。其中一些人并不那么感兴趣。有些学生非常出色。他们中的一些人，很多人都是非常优秀的学生，渴望学有所成，并希望留在加拿大做出贡献，但另一些人只是将其视为进入移民系统的通行证。
SPEAKER: THEY PAY MUCH MORE AND THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT FUNDING GAP. ANYWHERE FROM WHEN THE COLLEGES STARTED AND BILL DAVIS IS VISION FOR COLLEGES WHICH I THINK IS BRILLIANT. COLLEGES WERE BEING FUNDED AROUND 80 PERCENT OF THEIR BUDGET DOLLARS. TODAY IT'S IN THE 20 PERCENT RANGE. SO THINK ABOUT THAT 80 PERCENT GAP THAT EXISTS AND SO THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WERE FEELING THAT FINANCIAL GAP. THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THEY WEREN'T THAT INTERESTED. AND SOME OF THEM WERE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN SOME OF THEM WERE TERRIFIC. SOME OF THEM, MANY OF THEM ARE EXTRAORDINARY STUDENTS AND WANT TO DO WELL AND WANT TO STAY IN CANADA AND CONTRIBUTE BUT OTHERS JUST THOUGHT OF IT AS A PASS TO THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
史蒂夫·帕金：看，我很理解今天在座的三位都在这个体系中谋生，你们热爱这个体系，是这个体系的拥护者。但我在想，对外国学生的依赖以及他们为了进入这个体系而支付的三倍或四倍的学费，是否导致了某些扭曲现象的发生，或者导致了一些问题未能得到解决。Maureen，您怎么看？
STEVE: LOOK AT, I APPRECIATE THAT THREE OF YOU HERE TODAY MAKE YOUR LIVING IN THE SYSTEM YOU LOVE THE SYSTEM YOU ARE CHAMPIONS OF THE SYSTEM. BUT I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THE RELIANCE ON FOREIGN STUDENTS AND THE TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE TUITIONS THAT THEY HAVE. IN ORDER TO BE IN THE SYSTEM HAVE ALLOWED CERTAIN DISTORTIONS AND EITHER DISTORTIONS TO HAPPEN OR PROBLEMS UNMET TO TAKE PLACE MORE RAIN WHAT YOU THINK.
莫琳·亚当森：我必须说，认为学生来这里是为了其他原因而滥用这个系统，这是一个相当宽泛的说法。我相信会有例外，但是学院在教育类型、学生必须遵守才能获准进入安大略省乃至加拿大任何一所学院的标准方面，拥有一个非常健全的质量框架。而且你知道，这个框架非常健全。学院是否不得不依赖国际收入？绝对是。在没有省政府其他资金来源的情况下，只有几种收入来源，国际学生是其中之一。
MAUREEN: I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS A PRETTY BROAD SYSTEM TO SAY THAT STUDENTS CAME HERE TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM FOR OTHERS REASONS AND I'M SURE THIS OTHER EXCEPTIONS BUT COLLEGES HAVE A VERY ROBUST QUALITY FRAMEWORK AROUND THE TYPES OF EDUCATION, THE KINDS OF STANDARDS THAT STUDENTS HAVE TO COMPLY WITH TO BE APPROVED TO COME TO A COLLEGE IN ONTARIO AND IN CANADA FOR THAT MATTER. AND YOU KNOW, THAT WAS VERY ROBUST HAVE COLLEGES HAVE TO RELY ON INTERNATIONAL REVENUES ABSOLUTELY. IN THE ABSENCE OF OTHER FUNDING THROUGH THE PROVINCE THERE ARE ONLY SEVERAL REVENUE STREAMS AND INTERNATIONALS ONE OF THEM.
史蒂夫·帕金： 那么让我接着说。联邦政府已经关闭了国际学生这个“水龙头”，所以你们没有了这部分收入。省政府，也就是进步保守党政府，已经冻结学费7年了，所以你们也没有那部分收入。你们现在的情况如何？
STEVE: SO LET ME PICK UP ON IT SO THIS BIG OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAS BEEN TURNED OFF BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO YOU KNOW HOW THAT REVENUE. THE PROVINCE HAS FROZEN TUITION FOR 7 YEARS THE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT REVENUE HOUSE CHAPTER YOU RIGHT NOW.
安·玛丽·沃恩：汉博学院可能是一个特例。从去年到今年，我们的国际学生数量没有下降。我们确实预计会出现下降，仅仅是因为政府签证的批准率。但我们并非国际学生入学率超过50%的院校之一；我们的比例是38%。所以我想说的是，国际学生的保留率更高，毕业率也更高，所以这些学生实际上表现得相当不错。他们绝大多数是带着明确的目标来到这里，并且在我们的体系中表现出色。并且填补了劳动力市场急需的岗位。当你查看毕业生的就业率时，毕业后6个月的就业率远超80%。雇主满意率也超过90%。
SPEAKER: HUMBER MAYBE AN ANOMALY WE DIDN'T HAVE A DROP IN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS FROM LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR. WE DO EXPECT WE WILL SEE A DROP SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE APPROVAL RATES FOR VISAS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT. BUT WE WERE NOT ONE OF THE INSTITUTIONS THAT HAD OVER 50 PERCENT INTERNATIONAL ENROLMENT WE HAD 38 PERCENT CORRECT. SO I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAD A HIGHER RETENTION RATE THEY HAD A HIGHER GRADUATION RATE SO THE STUDENTS WERE ACTUALLY PERFORMING QUITE WELL. THEY CAME HERE WITH THE MISSION OF MIND, THE VAST MAJORITY. AND THEY EXCELLED IN OUR SYSTEM. AND FAILING MUCH NEEDED JOBS IN THE LABOUR FORCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GRADUATION OUR EMPLOYMENT RATES, WELL OVER 80 PERCENT 6 MONTHS OUT OF GRADUATION. AND THE EMPLOYER SATISFACTION RATES WAS OVER 90 PERCENT.
史蒂夫·帕金：如果说我听到了一件事，那就是学费冻结加上外国学生（他们支付比国内学生高得多的学费）数量的减少，导致这个体系不再能够完成60年前设定的使命。这是对还是错？
STEVE: IF THERE'S ONE THING AND HERE IS THAT THE TUITION FEES PLUS THE REDUCTION IN FOREIGN STUDENTS PAYING THE MUCH HIGHER THAN DOMESTIC STUDENT TUITIONS HAS RESULTED IN A SYSTEM THAT IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FULFILL THE MISSION THAT IT HAD SET OUT TO DO 60 YEARS AGO. TRUE OR FALSE?
安·玛丽·沃恩：我不认为事情这么简单。并非我们没有完成使命。我们确实在继续完成我们的使命。这并不意味着我们没有经历财务挑战。而且这并非一蹴而就。加拿大联邦政府对高等教育的资助减少始于90年代末。我实际上在90年代末就以这个主题写了我的硕士论文。所以我们现在看到的是一个长期以来发生的侵蚀，历经多个政党参与加拿大和安大略省高等教育的融资。您说得对。我们的资金依赖于学费或政府拨款。但我们在加拿大确实有一个公共政策目标，即学生为其教育经历付费，政府也付费。所以我认为这是我们需要在安大略省进行的更广泛的公共政策讨论。这不仅仅是学院领域的问题；它也影响到大学领域。这是一个我们需要进行的更广泛的对话。
ANNE: I DON'T THINK IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT IS NOT THAT WERE NOT FULFILLING THE MISSION WE REALLY ARE CONTINUING TO FULFILL OUR MISSION IS NOT MEANING THAT WERE NOT GOING THROUGH FINANCIAL CHALLENGES. AND THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. THE DECLINE AND FEDERAL FUNDING FOR HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA STARTED IN THE LATE '90s I ACTUALLY DID MY MASTERS THESIS ON THIS TOPIC IN THE LATE '90s. SO WHAT WERE SEEING NOW IS IN EROSION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OVER MULTIPLE POLITICAL PARTIES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE FINANCING OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA AND ONTARIO. AND YOU'RE RIGHT. THERE WERE DEPENDENT ON EITHER TUITION OR GOVERNMENT GRANTS FOR OUR FUNDING. BUT WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC POLICY OBJECTIVE IN CANADA THAT STUDENTS PAID TOWARDS THEIR EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE AND GOVERNMENT PAY AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A WIDER PUBLIC POLICY DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN ONTARIO. IT'S NOT JUST A COLLEGE SECTOR IT ALSO IMPACTS THE UNIVERSITY SECTOR AND IT'S A WIDER CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE.
马丁·雷格·科恩： 这正好回应了您刚才说的。如果你想想魁北克多年前宣布的CEGEP（普通与职业教育学院）体系，人们先进入CEGEP，然后进入大学。这其中存在一些转换。我们现在讨论的，就是这种灰色地带。你听到关于学院“大学化蔓延”的说法，我愿意为此“挡枪”，并提出一些异议。先上大学，然后通过学院这个更具针对性、更贴近就业的“进修学校”来完成学业，这不失为一种有益的途径。但毫无疑问，学院确实存在“大学化蔓延”的现象。这其中也有原因，那就是大学能从学生身上获得更多资金，更容易维持现金流。我们今天会谈到各种各样的财政和政治扭曲。但当学院和大学开始变得一样时，比尔·戴维斯的使命就改变了。
>> SPEAKER: AND THAT'S A QUICK POINT TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE QUEBEC SYSTEM OF SEIZURE THAT WAS ANNOUNCED MANY YEARS AGO PEOPLE GO INTO THAT AND THEN UNIVERSITY AND THERE ARE SOME CONVERSIONS IS WHAT WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THAT GRAIN YOU HEAR ABOUT UNIVERSITY CREEP AND I THROW MYSELF ON THAT GRENADE FOR YOU AND TAKE SOME IS USEFUL TO GO TO UNIVERSITY AND FINISH OFF WITH A MORE SPECIFIC JOB SENSITIVE FINISHING SCHOOL AS IT WERE OUT OF COLLEGE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE HAS BEEN UNIVERSITY CREEP BY THE COLLEGES AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT AS WELL, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSITIES GET MORE MONEY FOR STUDENTS IT'S EASIER TO FINANCE THE CASH FLOW. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL DISTORTIONS WE WILL TALK ABOUT TODAY. BUT WHEN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES START TO BE THE SAME BILL DAVIS' MISSION IS CHANGED.
EN The Impact of International Students and Funding Gaps ZH 国际学生的影响与资金缺口
史蒂夫·帕金： 让我们谈谈这个，Lynn，我想听听您的看法。因为这些年来我和人们谈论过这个问题，并且我们在引言中也暗示过，人们看到学院体系目前发生的一些事情引起了极大的关注。不如就从您开始，您能否告诉我们，与您10-12年前刚开始教书时相比，您现在在一线教学中有什么不同的体验？区别是什么？
>> STEVE: LET'S, LYNN I WANT TO BRING YOU IN ON THIS. BECAUSE TO THE EXTENT THAT I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS OVER THIS. AND WE HINTED AT THIS IN THE INTRODUCTION. PEOPLE ARE SEEING THINGS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE COLLEGE SYSTEM THAT'S CAUSING A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN. WHY DON'T I JUST START WITH YOU AND YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR FIRST HAND FRONT LINE EXPERIENCE IS WITH WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE PERHAPS BEEN ABLE TO DO 10-12 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED TEACHING VERSUS TODAY WAS A DIFFERENCE.
林恩·惠特姆： 学生不同了。我们面临国际学生上限的问题。疫情之后，进入系统的国际学生数量问题变得更加尖锐。而且我相信，可以肯定地说，存在滥用现象。在招生方面存在滥用，一些国家的招生中介将学生送到这里的学院。一些学生利用学院系统和教育作为获得加拿大移民身份的途径，他们对教育的投入可能没有应有的那么强烈。学院鼓励招收国际学生是因为存在资金缺口。
>> SPEAKER: THE STUDENTS ARE DIFFERENT. SO WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENT CAP. AND AFTER THE PANDEMIC IT BECAME EVEN MORE ACUTE, THE NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT HAD COME INTO THE SYSTEM. AND IT'S SAFE TO SAY I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE ABUSES THERE WERE ABUSES IN TERMS OF RECRUITERS IN COUNTRIES GETTING THOSE STUDENTS TO THE COLLEGES HERE. SOME STUDENTS USE THE COLLEGE SYSTEM AND EDUCATION AS A WAY TO GET IMMIGRATION STATUS IN CANADA AND THEIR COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. COLLEGES ENCOURAGE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS BECAUSE OF THE FUNDING GAP.
史蒂夫·帕金：他们支付更高的学费。
STEVE: THEY PAY MORE.
林恩·惠特姆：他们支付的费用要高得多。而且存在巨大的资金缺口。从学院刚成立时，以及比尔·戴维斯对学院的设想（我认为非常出色）来看，学院大约80%的预算资金来自政府拨款。如今，这个比例在20%左右。所以想想这80%的缺口。因此，国际学生填补了这个财政缺口。问题是，他们对此并不那么感兴趣。其中一些人并不那么感兴趣。有些学生非常出色。他们中的一些人，很多人都是非常优秀的学生，渴望学有所成，并希望留在加拿大做出贡献，但另一些人只是将其视为进入移民系统的通行证。
SPEAKER: THEY PAY MUCH MORE AND THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT FUNDING GAP. ANYWHERE FROM WHEN THE COLLEGES STARTED AND BILL DAVIS IS VISION FOR COLLEGES WHICH I THINK IS BRILLIANT. COLLEGES WERE BEING FUNDED AROUND 80 PERCENT OF THEIR BUDGET DOLLARS. TODAY IT'S IN THE 20 PERCENT RANGE. SO THINK ABOUT THAT 80 PERCENT GAP THAT EXISTS AND SO THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WERE FEELING THAT FINANCIAL GAP. THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THEY WEREN'T THAT INTERESTED. AND SOME OF THEM WERE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN SOME OF THEM WERE TERRIFIC. SOME OF THEM, MANY OF THEM ARE EXTRAORDINARY STUDENTS AND WANT TO DO WELL AND WANT TO STAY IN CANADA AND CONTRIBUTE BUT OTHERS JUST THOUGHT OF IT AS A PASS TO THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
史蒂夫·帕金：看，我很理解今天在座的三位都在这个体系中谋生，你们热爱这个体系，是这个体系的拥护者。但我在想，对外国学生的依赖以及他们为了进入这个体系而支付的三倍或四倍的学费，是否导致了某些扭曲现象的发生，或者导致了一些问题未能得到解决。Maureen，您怎么看？
STEVE: LOOK AT, I APPRECIATE THAT THREE OF YOU HERE TODAY MAKE YOUR LIVING IN THE SYSTEM YOU LOVE THE SYSTEM YOU ARE CHAMPIONS OF THE SYSTEM. BUT I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THE RELIANCE ON FOREIGN STUDENTS AND THE TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE TUITIONS THAT THEY HAVE. IN ORDER TO BE IN THE SYSTEM HAVE ALLOWED CERTAIN DISTORTIONS AND EITHER DISTORTIONS TO HAPPEN OR PROBLEMS UNMET TO TAKE PLACE MORE RAIN WHAT YOU THINK.
莫琳·亚当森：我必须说，认为学生来这里是为了其他原因而滥用这个系统，这是一个相当宽泛的说法。我相信会有例外，但是学院在教育类型、学生必须遵守才能获准进入安大略省乃至加拿大任何一所学院的标准方面，拥有一个非常健全的质量框架。而且你知道，这个框架非常健全。学院是否不得不依赖国际收入？绝对是。在没有省政府其他资金来源的情况下，只有几种收入来源，国际学生是其中之一。
MAUREEN: I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS A PRETTY BROAD SYSTEM TO SAY THAT STUDENTS CAME HERE TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM FOR OTHERS REASONS AND I'M SURE THIS OTHER EXCEPTIONS BUT COLLEGES HAVE A VERY ROBUST QUALITY FRAMEWORK AROUND THE TYPES OF EDUCATION, THE KINDS OF STANDARDS THAT STUDENTS HAVE TO COMPLY WITH TO BE APPROVED TO COME TO A COLLEGE IN ONTARIO AND IN CANADA FOR THAT MATTER. AND YOU KNOW, THAT WAS VERY ROBUST HAVE COLLEGES HAVE TO RELY ON INTERNATIONAL REVENUES ABSOLUTELY. IN THE ABSENCE OF OTHER FUNDING THROUGH THE PROVINCE THERE ARE ONLY SEVERAL REVENUE STREAMS AND INTERNATIONALS ONE OF THEM.
史蒂夫·帕金： 那么让我接着说。联邦政府已经关闭了国际学生这个“水龙头”，所以你们没有了这部分收入。省政府，也就是进步保守党政府，已经冻结学费7年了，所以你们也没有那部分收入。你们现在的情况如何？
STEVE: SO LET ME PICK UP ON IT SO THIS BIG OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAS BEEN TURNED OFF BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO YOU KNOW HOW THAT REVENUE. THE PROVINCE HAS FROZEN TUITION FOR 7 YEARS THE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT REVENUE HOUSE CHAPTER YOU RIGHT NOW.
安·玛丽·沃恩：汉博学院可能是一个特例。从去年到今年，我们的国际学生数量没有下降。我们确实预计会出现下降，仅仅是因为政府签证的批准率。但我们并非国际学生入学率超过50%的院校之一；我们的比例是38%。所以我想说的是，国际学生的保留率更高，毕业率也更高，所以这些学生实际上表现得相当不错。他们绝大多数是带着明确的目标来到这里，并且在我们的体系中表现出色。并且填补了劳动力市场急需的岗位。当你查看毕业生的就业率时，毕业后6个月的就业率远超80%。雇主满意率也超过90%。
SPEAKER: HUMBER MAYBE AN ANOMALY WE DIDN'T HAVE A DROP IN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS FROM LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR. WE DO EXPECT WE WILL SEE A DROP SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE APPROVAL RATES FOR VISAS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT. BUT WE WERE NOT ONE OF THE INSTITUTIONS THAT HAD OVER 50 PERCENT INTERNATIONAL ENROLMENT WE HAD 38 PERCENT CORRECT. SO I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAD A HIGHER RETENTION RATE THEY HAD A HIGHER GRADUATION RATE SO THE STUDENTS WERE ACTUALLY PERFORMING QUITE WELL. THEY CAME HERE WITH THE MISSION OF MIND, THE VAST MAJORITY. AND THEY EXCELLED IN OUR SYSTEM. AND FAILING MUCH NEEDED JOBS IN THE LABOUR FORCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GRADUATION OUR EMPLOYMENT RATES, WELL OVER 80 PERCENT 6 MONTHS OUT OF GRADUATION. AND THE EMPLOYER SATISFACTION RATES WAS OVER 90 PERCENT.
史蒂夫·帕金：如果说我听到了一件事，那就是学费冻结加上外国学生（他们支付比国内学生高得多的学费）数量的减少，导致这个体系不再能够完成60年前设定的使命。这是对还是错？
STEVE: IF THERE'S ONE THING AND HERE IS THAT THE TUITION FEES PLUS THE REDUCTION IN FOREIGN STUDENTS PAYING THE MUCH HIGHER THAN DOMESTIC STUDENT TUITIONS HAS RESULTED IN A SYSTEM THAT IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FULFILL THE MISSION THAT IT HAD SET OUT TO DO 60 YEARS AGO. TRUE OR FALSE?
安·玛丽·沃恩：我不认为事情这么简单。并非我们没有完成使命。我们确实在继续完成我们的使命。这并不意味着我们没有经历财务挑战。而且这并非一蹴而就。加拿大联邦政府对高等教育的资助减少始于90年代末。我实际上在90年代末就以这个主题写了我的硕士论文。所以我们现在看到的是一个长期以来发生的侵蚀，历经多个政党参与加拿大和安大略省高等教育的融资。您说得对。我们的资金依赖于学费或政府拨款。但我们在加拿大确实有一个公共政策目标，即学生为其教育经历付费，政府也付费。所以我认为这是我们需要在安大略省进行的更广泛的公共政策讨论。这不仅仅是学院领域的问题；它也影响到大学领域。这是一个我们需要进行的更广泛的对话。
ANNE: I DON'T THINK IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT IS NOT THAT WERE NOT FULFILLING THE MISSION WE REALLY ARE CONTINUING TO FULFILL OUR MISSION IS NOT MEANING THAT WERE NOT GOING THROUGH FINANCIAL CHALLENGES. AND THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. THE DECLINE AND FEDERAL FUNDING FOR HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA STARTED IN THE LATE '90s I ACTUALLY DID MY MASTERS THESIS ON THIS TOPIC IN THE LATE '90s. SO WHAT WERE SEEING NOW IS IN EROSION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OVER MULTIPLE POLITICAL PARTIES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE FINANCING OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA AND ONTARIO. AND YOU'RE RIGHT. THERE WERE DEPENDENT ON EITHER TUITION OR GOVERNMENT GRANTS FOR OUR FUNDING. BUT WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC POLICY OBJECTIVE IN CANADA THAT STUDENTS PAID TOWARDS THEIR EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE AND GOVERNMENT PAY AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A WIDER PUBLIC POLICY DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN ONTARIO. IT'S NOT JUST A COLLEGE SECTOR IT ALSO IMPACTS THE UNIVERSITY SECTOR AND IT'S A WIDER CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE.
马丁·雷格·科恩： 这正好回应了您刚才说的。如果你想想魁北克多年前宣布的CEGEP（普通与职业教育学院）体系，人们先进入CEGEP，然后进入大学。这其中存在一些转换。我们现在讨论的，就是这种灰色地带。你听到关于学院“大学化蔓延”的说法，我愿意为此“挡枪”，并提出一些异议。先上大学，然后通过学院这个更具针对性、更贴近就业的“进修学校”来完成学业，这不失为一种有益的途径。但毫无疑问，学院确实存在“大学化蔓延”的现象。这其中也有原因，那就是大学能从学生身上获得更多资金，更容易维持现金流。我们今天会谈到各种各样的财政和政治扭曲。但当学院和大学开始变得一样时，比尔·戴维斯的使命就改变了。
>> SPEAKER: AND THAT'S A QUICK POINT TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE QUEBEC SYSTEM OF SEIZURE THAT WAS ANNOUNCED MANY YEARS AGO PEOPLE GO INTO THAT AND THEN UNIVERSITY AND THERE ARE SOME CONVERSIONS IS WHAT WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THAT GRAIN YOU HEAR ABOUT UNIVERSITY CREEP AND I THROW MYSELF ON THAT GRENADE FOR YOU AND TAKE SOME IS USEFUL TO GO TO UNIVERSITY AND FINISH OFF WITH A MORE SPECIFIC JOB SENSITIVE FINISHING SCHOOL AS IT WERE OUT OF COLLEGE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE HAS BEEN UNIVERSITY CREEP BY THE COLLEGES AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT AS WELL, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSITIES GET MORE MONEY FOR STUDENTS IT'S EASIER TO FINANCE THE CASH FLOW. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL DISTORTIONS WE WILL TALK ABOUT TODAY. BUT WHEN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES START TO BE THE SAME BILL DAVIS' MISSION IS CHANGED.
EN The Impact of International Students and Funding Gaps ZH 国际学生的影响与资金缺口
史蒂夫·帕金： 让我们谈谈这个，Lynn，我想听听您的看法。因为这些年来我和人们谈论过这个问题，并且我们在引言中也暗示过，人们看到学院体系目前发生的一些事情引起了极大的关注。不如就从您开始，您能否告诉我们，与您10-12年前刚开始教书时相比，您现在在一线教学中有什么不同的体验？区别是什么？
>> STEVE: LET'S, LYNN I WANT TO BRING YOU IN ON THIS. BECAUSE TO THE EXTENT THAT I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS OVER THIS. AND WE HINTED AT THIS IN THE INTRODUCTION. PEOPLE ARE SEEING THINGS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE COLLEGE SYSTEM THAT'S CAUSING A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN. WHY DON'T I JUST START WITH YOU AND YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR FIRST HAND FRONT LINE EXPERIENCE IS WITH WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE PERHAPS BEEN ABLE TO DO 10-12 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED TEACHING VERSUS TODAY WAS A DIFFERENCE.
林恩·惠特姆： 学生不同了。我们面临国际学生上限的问题。疫情之后，进入系统的国际学生数量问题变得更加尖锐。而且我相信，可以肯定地说，存在滥用现象。在招生方面存在滥用，一些国家的招生中介将学生送到这里的学院。一些学生利用学院系统和教育作为获得加拿大移民身份的途径，他们对教育的投入可能没有应有的那么强烈。学院鼓励招收国际学生是因为存在资金缺口。
>> SPEAKER: THE STUDENTS ARE DIFFERENT. SO WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENT CAP. AND AFTER THE PANDEMIC IT BECAME EVEN MORE ACUTE, THE NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT HAD COME INTO THE SYSTEM. AND IT'S SAFE TO SAY I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE ABUSES THERE WERE ABUSES IN TERMS OF RECRUITERS IN COUNTRIES GETTING THOSE STUDENTS TO THE COLLEGES HERE. SOME STUDENTS USE THE COLLEGE SYSTEM AND EDUCATION AS A WAY TO GET IMMIGRATION STATUS IN CANADA AND THEIR COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. COLLEGES ENCOURAGE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS BECAUSE OF THE FUNDING GAP.
史蒂夫·帕金：他们支付更高的学费。
STEVE: THEY PAY MORE.
林恩·惠特姆：他们支付的费用要高得多。而且存在巨大的资金缺口。从学院刚成立时，以及比尔·戴维斯对学院的设想（我认为非常出色）来看，学院大约80%的预算资金来自政府拨款。如今，这个比例在20%左右。所以想想这80%的缺口。因此，国际学生填补了这个财政缺口。问题是，他们对此并不那么感兴趣。其中一些人并不那么感兴趣。有些学生非常出色。他们中的一些人，很多人都是非常优秀的学生，渴望学有所成，并希望留在加拿大做出贡献，但另一些人只是将其视为进入移民系统的通行证。
SPEAKER: THEY PAY MUCH MORE AND THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT FUNDING GAP. ANYWHERE FROM WHEN THE COLLEGES STARTED AND BILL DAVIS IS VISION FOR COLLEGES WHICH I THINK IS BRILLIANT. COLLEGES WERE BEING FUNDED AROUND 80 PERCENT OF THEIR BUDGET DOLLARS. TODAY IT'S IN THE 20 PERCENT RANGE. SO THINK ABOUT THAT 80 PERCENT GAP THAT EXISTS AND SO THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WERE FEELING THAT FINANCIAL GAP. THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THEY WEREN'T THAT INTERESTED. AND SOME OF THEM WERE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN SOME OF THEM WERE TERRIFIC. SOME OF THEM, MANY OF THEM ARE EXTRAORDINARY STUDENTS AND WANT TO DO WELL AND WANT TO STAY IN CANADA AND CONTRIBUTE BUT OTHERS JUST THOUGHT OF IT AS A PASS TO THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
史蒂夫·帕金：看，我很理解今天在座的三位都在这个体系中谋生，你们热爱这个体系，是这个体系的拥护者。但我在想，对外国学生的依赖以及他们为了进入这个体系而支付的三倍或四倍的学费，是否导致了某些扭曲现象的发生，或者导致了一些问题未能得到解决。Maureen，您怎么看？
STEVE: LOOK AT, I APPRECIATE THAT THREE OF YOU HERE TODAY MAKE YOUR LIVING IN THE SYSTEM YOU LOVE THE SYSTEM YOU ARE CHAMPIONS OF THE SYSTEM. BUT I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THE RELIANCE ON FOREIGN STUDENTS AND THE TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE TUITIONS THAT THEY HAVE. IN ORDER TO BE IN THE SYSTEM HAVE ALLOWED CERTAIN DISTORTIONS AND EITHER DISTORTIONS TO HAPPEN OR PROBLEMS UNMET TO TAKE PLACE MORE RAIN WHAT YOU THINK.
莫琳·亚当森：我必须说，认为学生来这里是为了其他原因而滥用这个系统，这是一个相当宽泛的说法。我相信会有例外，但是学院在教育类型、学生必须遵守才能获准进入安大略省乃至加拿大任何一所学院的标准方面，拥有一个非常健全的质量框架。而且你知道，这个框架非常健全。学院是否不得不依赖国际收入？绝对是。在没有省政府其他资金来源的情况下，只有几种收入来源，国际学生是其中之一。
MAUREEN: I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS A PRETTY BROAD SYSTEM TO SAY THAT STUDENTS CAME HERE TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM FOR OTHERS REASONS AND I'M SURE THIS OTHER EXCEPTIONS BUT COLLEGES HAVE A VERY ROBUST QUALITY FRAMEWORK AROUND THE TYPES OF EDUCATION, THE KINDS OF STANDARDS THAT STUDENTS HAVE TO COMPLY WITH TO BE APPROVED TO COME TO A COLLEGE IN ONTARIO AND IN CANADA FOR THAT MATTER. AND YOU KNOW, THAT WAS VERY ROBUST HAVE COLLEGES HAVE TO RELY ON INTERNATIONAL REVENUES ABSOLUTELY. IN THE ABSENCE OF OTHER FUNDING THROUGH THE PROVINCE THERE ARE ONLY SEVERAL REVENUE STREAMS AND INTERNATIONALS ONE OF THEM.
史蒂夫·帕金： 那么让我接着说。联邦政府已经关闭了国际学生这个“水龙头”，所以你们没有了这部分收入。省政府，也就是进步保守党政府，已经冻结学费7年了，所以你们也没有那部分收入。你们现在的情况如何？
STEVE: SO LET ME PICK UP ON IT SO THIS BIG OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAS BEEN TURNED OFF BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO YOU KNOW HOW THAT REVENUE. THE PROVINCE HAS FROZEN TUITION FOR 7 YEARS THE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT REVENUE HOUSE CHAPTER YOU RIGHT NOW.
安·玛丽·沃恩：汉博学院可能是一个特例。从去年到今年，我们的国际学生数量没有下降。我们确实预计会出现下降，仅仅是因为政府签证的批准率。但我们并非国际学生入学率超过50%的院校之一；我们的比例是38%。所以我想说的是，国际学生的保留率更高，毕业率也更高，所以这些学生实际上表现得相当不错。他们绝大多数是带着明确的目标来到这里，并且在我们的体系中表现出色。并且填补了劳动力市场急需的岗位。当你查看毕业生的就业率时，毕业后6个月的就业率远超80%。雇主满意率也超过90%。
SPEAKER: HUMBER MAYBE AN ANOMALY WE DIDN'T HAVE A DROP IN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS FROM LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR. WE DO EXPECT WE WILL SEE A DROP SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE APPROVAL RATES FOR VISAS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT. BUT WE WERE NOT ONE OF THE INSTITUTIONS THAT HAD OVER 50 PERCENT INTERNATIONAL ENROLMENT WE HAD 38 PERCENT CORRECT. SO I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAD A HIGHER RETENTION RATE THEY HAD A HIGHER GRADUATION RATE SO THE STUDENTS WERE ACTUALLY PERFORMING QUITE WELL. THEY CAME HERE WITH THE MISSION OF MIND, THE VAST MAJORITY. AND THEY EXCELLED IN OUR SYSTEM. AND FAILING MUCH NEEDED JOBS IN THE LABOUR FORCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GRADUATION OUR EMPLOYMENT RATES, WELL OVER 80 PERCENT 6 MONTHS OUT OF GRADUATION. AND THE EMPLOYER SATISFACTION RATES WAS OVER 90 PERCENT.
史蒂夫·帕金：如果说我听到了一件事，那就是学费冻结加上外国学生（他们支付比国内学生高得多的学费）数量的减少，导致这个体系不再能够完成60年前设定的使命。这是对还是错？
STEVE: IF THERE'S ONE THING AND HERE IS THAT THE TUITION FEES PLUS THE REDUCTION IN FOREIGN STUDENTS PAYING THE MUCH HIGHER THAN DOMESTIC STUDENT TUITIONS HAS RESULTED IN A SYSTEM THAT IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FULFILL THE MISSION THAT IT HAD SET OUT TO DO 60 YEARS AGO. TRUE OR FALSE?
安·玛丽·沃恩：我不认为事情这么简单。并非我们没有完成使命。我们确实在继续完成我们的使命。这并不意味着我们没有经历财务挑战。而且这并非一蹴而就。加拿大联邦政府对高等教育的资助减少始于90年代末。我实际上在90年代末就以这个主题写了我的硕士论文。所以我们现在看到的是一个长期以来发生的侵蚀，历经多个政党参与加拿大和安大略省高等教育的融资。您说得对。我们的资金依赖于学费或政府拨款。但我们在加拿大确实有一个公共政策目标，即学生为其教育经历付费，政府也付费。所以我认为这是我们需要在安大略省进行的更广泛的公共政策讨论。这不仅仅是学院领域的问题；它也影响到大学领域。这是一个我们需要进行的更广泛的对话。
ANNE: I DON'T THINK IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT IS NOT THAT WERE NOT FULFILLING THE MISSION WE REALLY ARE CONTINUING TO FULFILL OUR MISSION IS NOT MEANING THAT WERE NOT GOING THROUGH FINANCIAL CHALLENGES. AND THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. THE DECLINE AND FEDERAL FUNDING FOR HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA STARTED IN THE LATE '90s I ACTUALLY DID MY MASTERS THESIS ON THIS TOPIC IN THE LATE '90s. SO WHAT WERE SEEING NOW IS IN EROSION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OVER MULTIPLE POLITICAL PARTIES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE FINANCING OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA AND ONTARIO. AND YOU'RE RIGHT. THERE WERE DEPENDENT ON EITHER TUITION OR GOVERNMENT GRANTS FOR OUR FUNDING. BUT WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC POLICY OBJECTIVE IN CANADA THAT STUDENTS PAID TOWARDS THEIR EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE AND GOVERNMENT PAY AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A WIDER PUBLIC POLICY DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN ONTARIO. IT'S NOT JUST A COLLEGE SECTOR IT ALSO IMPACTS THE UNIVERSITY SECTOR AND IT'S A WIDER CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE.
马丁·雷格·科恩： 这正好回应了您刚才说的。如果你想想魁北克多年前宣布的CEGEP（普通与职业教育学院）体系，人们先进入CEGEP，然后进入大学。这其中存在一些转换。我们现在讨论的，就是这种灰色地带。你听到关于学院“大学化蔓延”的说法，我愿意为此“挡枪”，并提出一些异议。先上大学，然后通过学院这个更具针对性、更贴近就业的“进修学校”来完成学业，这不失为一种有益的途径。但毫无疑问，学院确实存在“大学化蔓延”的现象。这其中也有原因，那就是大学能从学生身上获得更多资金，更容易维持现金流。我们今天会谈到各种各样的财政和政治扭曲。但当学院和大学开始变得一样时，比尔·戴维斯的使命就改变了。
>> SPEAKER: AND THAT'S A QUICK POINT TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE QUEBEC SYSTEM OF SEIZURE THAT WAS ANNOUNCED MANY YEARS AGO PEOPLE GO INTO THAT AND THEN UNIVERSITY AND THERE ARE SOME CONVERSIONS IS WHAT WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THAT GRAIN YOU HEAR ABOUT UNIVERSITY CREEP AND I THROW MYSELF ON THAT GRENADE FOR YOU AND TAKE SOME IS USEFUL TO GO TO UNIVERSITY AND FINISH OFF WITH A MORE SPECIFIC JOB SENSITIVE FINISHING SCHOOL AS IT WERE OUT OF COLLEGE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE HAS BEEN UNIVERSITY CREEP BY THE COLLEGES AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT AS WELL, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSITIES GET MORE MONEY FOR STUDENTS IT'S EASIER TO FINANCE THE CASH FLOW. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL DISTORTIONS WE WILL TALK ABOUT TODAY. BUT WHEN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES START TO BE THE SAME BILL DAVIS' MISSION IS CHANGED.
EN The Impact of International Students and Funding Gaps ZH 国际学生的影响与资金缺口
史蒂夫·帕金： 让我们谈谈这个，Lynn，我想听听您的看法。因为这些年来我和人们谈论过这个问题，并且我们在引言中也暗示过，人们看到学院体系目前发生的一些事情引起了极大的关注。不如就从您开始，您能否告诉我们，与您10-12年前刚开始教书时相比，您现在在一线教学中有什么不同的体验？区别是什么？
>> STEVE: LET'S, LYNN I WANT TO BRING YOU IN ON THIS. BECAUSE TO THE EXTENT THAT I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS OVER THIS. AND WE HINTED AT THIS IN THE INTRODUCTION. PEOPLE ARE SEEING THINGS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE COLLEGE SYSTEM THAT'S CAUSING A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN. WHY DON'T I JUST START WITH YOU AND YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR FIRST HAND FRONT LINE EXPERIENCE IS WITH WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE PERHAPS BEEN ABLE TO DO 10-12 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED TEACHING VERSUS TODAY WAS A DIFFERENCE.
林恩·惠特姆： 学生不同了。我们面临国际学生上限的问题。疫情之后，进入系统的国际学生数量问题变得更加尖锐。而且我相信，可以肯定地说，存在滥用现象。在招生方面存在滥用，一些国家的招生中介将学生送到这里的学院。一些学生利用学院系统和教育作为获得加拿大移民身份的途径，他们对教育的投入可能没有应有的那么强烈。学院鼓励招收国际学生是因为存在资金缺口。
>> SPEAKER: THE STUDENTS ARE DIFFERENT. SO WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENT CAP. AND AFTER THE PANDEMIC IT BECAME EVEN MORE ACUTE, THE NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT HAD COME INTO THE SYSTEM. AND IT'S SAFE TO SAY I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE ABUSES THERE WERE ABUSES IN TERMS OF RECRUITERS IN COUNTRIES GETTING THOSE STUDENTS TO THE COLLEGES HERE. SOME STUDENTS USE THE COLLEGE SYSTEM AND EDUCATION AS A WAY TO GET IMMIGRATION STATUS IN CANADA AND THEIR COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. COLLEGES ENCOURAGE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS BECAUSE OF THE FUNDING GAP.
史蒂夫·帕金：他们支付更高的学费。
STEVE: THEY PAY MORE.
林恩·惠特姆：他们支付的费用要高得多。而且存在巨大的资金缺口。从学院刚成立时，以及比尔·戴维斯对学院的设想（我认为非常出色）来看，学院大约80%的预算资金来自政府拨款。如今，这个比例在20%左右。所以想想这80%的缺口。因此，国际学生填补了这个财政缺口。问题是，他们对此并不那么感兴趣。其中一些人并不那么感兴趣。有些学生非常出色。他们中的一些人，很多人都是非常优秀的学生，渴望学有所成，并希望留在加拿大做出贡献，但另一些人只是将其视为进入移民系统的通行证。
SPEAKER: THEY PAY MUCH MORE AND THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT FUNDING GAP. ANYWHERE FROM WHEN THE COLLEGES STARTED AND BILL DAVIS IS VISION FOR COLLEGES WHICH I THINK IS BRILLIANT. COLLEGES WERE BEING FUNDED AROUND 80 PERCENT OF THEIR BUDGET DOLLARS. TODAY IT'S IN THE 20 PERCENT RANGE. SO THINK ABOUT THAT 80 PERCENT GAP THAT EXISTS AND SO THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WERE FEELING THAT FINANCIAL GAP. THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THEY WEREN'T THAT INTERESTED. AND SOME OF THEM WERE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN SOME OF THEM WERE TERRIFIC. SOME OF THEM, MANY OF THEM ARE EXTRAORDINARY STUDENTS AND WANT TO DO WELL AND WANT TO STAY IN CANADA AND CONTRIBUTE BUT OTHERS JUST THOUGHT OF IT AS A PASS TO THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
史蒂夫·帕金：看，我很理解今天在座的三位都在这个体系中谋生，你们热爱这个体系，是这个体系的拥护者。但我在想，对外国学生的依赖以及他们为了进入这个体系而支付的三倍或四倍的学费，是否导致了某些扭曲现象的发生，或者导致了一些问题未能得到解决。Maureen，您怎么看？
STEVE: LOOK AT, I APPRECIATE THAT THREE OF YOU HERE TODAY MAKE YOUR LIVING IN THE SYSTEM YOU LOVE THE SYSTEM YOU ARE CHAMPIONS OF THE SYSTEM. BUT I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THE RELIANCE ON FOREIGN STUDENTS AND THE TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE TUITIONS THAT THEY HAVE. IN ORDER TO BE IN THE SYSTEM HAVE ALLOWED CERTAIN DISTORTIONS AND EITHER DISTORTIONS TO HAPPEN OR PROBLEMS UNMET TO TAKE PLACE MORE RAIN WHAT YOU THINK.
莫琳·亚当森：我必须说，认为学生来这里是为了其他原因而滥用这个系统，这是一个相当宽泛的说法。我相信会有例外，但是学院在教育类型、学生必须遵守才能获准进入安大略省乃至加拿大任何一所学院的标准方面，拥有一个非常健全的质量框架。而且你知道，这个框架非常健全。学院是否不得不依赖国际收入？绝对是。在没有省政府其他资金来源的情况下，只有几种收入来源，国际学生是其中之一。
MAUREEN: I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS A PRETTY BROAD SYSTEM TO SAY THAT STUDENTS CAME HERE TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM FOR OTHERS REASONS AND I'M SURE THIS OTHER EXCEPTIONS BUT COLLEGES HAVE A VERY ROBUST QUALITY FRAMEWORK AROUND THE TYPES OF EDUCATION, THE KINDS OF STANDARDS THAT STUDENTS HAVE TO COMPLY WITH TO BE APPROVED TO COME TO A COLLEGE IN ONTARIO AND IN CANADA FOR THAT MATTER. AND YOU KNOW, THAT WAS VERY ROBUST HAVE COLLEGES HAVE TO RELY ON INTERNATIONAL REVENUES ABSOLUTELY. IN THE ABSENCE OF OTHER FUNDING THROUGH THE PROVINCE THERE ARE ONLY SEVERAL REVENUE STREAMS AND INTERNATIONALS ONE OF THEM.
史蒂夫·帕金： 那么让我接着说。联邦政府已经关闭了国际学生这个“水龙头”，所以你们没有了这部分收入。省政府，也就是进步保守党政府，已经冻结学费7年了，所以你们也没有那部分收入。你们现在的情况如何？
STEVE: SO LET ME PICK UP ON IT SO THIS BIG OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAS BEEN TURNED OFF BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO YOU KNOW HOW THAT REVENUE. THE PROVINCE HAS FROZEN TUITION FOR 7 YEARS THE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT REVENUE HOUSE CHAPTER YOU RIGHT NOW.
安·玛丽·沃恩：汉博学院可能是一个特例。从去年到今年，我们的国际学生数量没有下降。我们确实预计会出现下降，仅仅是因为政府签证的批准率。但我们并非国际学生入学率超过50%的院校之一；我们的比例是38%。所以我想说的是，国际学生的保留率更高，毕业率也更高，所以这些学生实际上表现得相当不错。他们绝大多数是带着明确的目标来到这里，并且在我们的体系中表现出色。并且填补了劳动力市场急需的岗位。当你查看毕业生的就业率时，毕业后6个月的就业率远超80%。雇主满意率也超过90%。
SPEAKER: HUMBER MAYBE AN ANOMALY WE DIDN'T HAVE A DROP IN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS FROM LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR. WE DO EXPECT WE WILL SEE A DROP SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE APPROVAL RATES FOR VISAS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT. BUT WE WERE NOT ONE OF THE INSTITUTIONS THAT HAD OVER 50 PERCENT INTERNATIONAL ENROLMENT WE HAD 38 PERCENT CORRECT. SO I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAD A HIGHER RETENTION RATE THEY HAD A HIGHER GRADUATION RATE SO THE STUDENTS WERE ACTUALLY PERFORMING QUITE WELL. THEY CAME HERE WITH THE MISSION OF MIND, THE VAST MAJORITY. AND THEY EXCELLED IN OUR SYSTEM. AND FAILING MUCH NEEDED JOBS IN THE LABOUR FORCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GRADUATION OUR EMPLOYMENT RATES, WELL OVER 80 PERCENT 6 MONTHS OUT OF GRADUATION. AND THE EMPLOYER SATISFACTION RATES WAS OVER 90 PERCENT.
史蒂夫·帕金：如果说我听到了一件事，那就是学费冻结加上外国学生（他们支付比国内学生高得多的学费）数量的减少，导致这个体系不再能够完成60年前设定的使命。这是对还是错？
STEVE: IF THERE'S ONE THING AND HERE IS THAT THE TUITION FEES PLUS THE REDUCTION IN FOREIGN STUDENTS PAYING THE MUCH HIGHER THAN DOMESTIC STUDENT TUITIONS HAS RESULTED IN A SYSTEM THAT IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FULFILL THE MISSION THAT IT HAD SET OUT TO DO 60 YEARS AGO. TRUE OR FALSE?
安·玛丽·沃恩：我不认为事情这么简单。并非我们没有完成使命。我们确实在继续完成我们的使命。这并不意味着我们没有经历财务挑战。而且这并非一蹴而就。加拿大联邦政府对高等教育的资助减少始于90年代末。我实际上在90年代末就以这个主题写了我的硕士论文。所以我们现在看到的是一个长期以来发生的侵蚀，历经多个政党参与加拿大和安大略省高等教育的融资。您说得对。我们的资金依赖于学费或政府拨款。但我们在加拿大确实有一个公共政策目标，即学生为其教育经历付费，政府也付费。所以我认为这是我们需要在安大略省进行的更广泛的公共政策讨论。这不仅仅是学院领域的问题；它也影响到大学领域。这是一个我们需要进行的更广泛的对话。
ANNE: I DON'T THINK IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT IS NOT THAT WERE NOT FULFILLING THE MISSION WE REALLY ARE CONTINUING TO FULFILL OUR MISSION IS NOT MEANING THAT WERE NOT GOING THROUGH FINANCIAL CHALLENGES. AND THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. THE DECLINE AND FEDERAL FUNDING FOR HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA STARTED IN THE LATE '90s I ACTUALLY DID MY MASTERS THESIS ON THIS TOPIC IN THE LATE '90s. SO WHAT WERE SEEING NOW IS IN EROSION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OVER MULTIPLE POLITICAL PARTIES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE FINANCING OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA AND ONTARIO. AND YOU'RE RIGHT. THERE WERE DEPENDENT ON EITHER TUITION OR GOVERNMENT GRANTS FOR OUR FUNDING. BUT WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC POLICY OBJECTIVE IN CANADA THAT STUDENTS PAID TOWARDS THEIR EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE AND GOVERNMENT PAY AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A WIDER PUBLIC POLICY DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN ONTARIO. IT'S NOT JUST A COLLEGE SECTOR IT ALSO IMPACTS THE UNIVERSITY SECTOR AND IT'S A WIDER CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE.
马丁·雷格·科恩： 这正好回应了您刚才说的。如果你想想魁北克多年前宣布的CEGEP（普通与职业教育学院）体系，人们先进入CEGEP，然后进入大学。这其中存在一些转换。我们现在讨论的，就是这种灰色地带。你听到关于学院“大学化蔓延”的说法，我愿意为此“挡枪”，并提出一些异议。先上大学，然后通过学院这个更具针对性、更贴近就业的“进修学校”来完成学业，这不失为一种有益的途径。但毫无疑问，学院确实存在“大学化蔓延”的现象。这其中也有原因，那就是大学能从学生身上获得更多资金，更容易维持现金流。我们今天会谈到各种各样的财政和政治扭曲。但当学院和大学开始变得一样时，比尔·戴维斯的使命就改变了。
>> SPEAKER: AND THAT'S A QUICK POINT TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE QUEBEC SYSTEM OF SEIZURE THAT WAS ANNOUNCED MANY YEARS AGO PEOPLE GO INTO THAT AND THEN UNIVERSITY AND THERE ARE SOME CONVERSIONS IS WHAT WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THAT GRAIN YOU HEAR ABOUT UNIVERSITY CREEP AND I THROW MYSELF ON THAT GRENADE FOR YOU AND TAKE SOME IS USEFUL TO GO TO UNIVERSITY AND FINISH OFF WITH A MORE SPECIFIC JOB SENSITIVE FINISHING SCHOOL AS IT WERE OUT OF COLLEGE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE HAS BEEN UNIVERSITY CREEP BY THE COLLEGES AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT AS WELL, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSITIES GET MORE MONEY FOR STUDENTS IT'S EASIER TO FINANCE THE CASH FLOW. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL DISTORTIONS WE WILL TALK ABOUT TODAY. BUT WHEN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES START TO BE THE SAME BILL DAVIS' MISSION IS CHANGED.
EN The Impact of International Students and Funding Gaps ZH 国际学生的影响与资金缺口
史蒂夫·帕金： 让我们谈谈这个，Lynn，我想听听您的看法。因为这些年来我和人们谈论过这个问题，并且我们在引言中也暗示过，人们看到学院体系目前发生的一些事情引起了极大的关注。不如就从您开始，您能否告诉我们，与您10-12年前刚开始教书时相比，您现在在一线教学中有什么不同的体验？区别是什么？
>> STEVE: LET'S, LYNN I WANT TO BRING YOU IN ON THIS. BECAUSE TO THE EXTENT THAT I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS OVER THIS. AND WE HINTED AT THIS IN THE INTRODUCTION. PEOPLE ARE SEEING THINGS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE COLLEGE SYSTEM THAT'S CAUSING A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN. WHY DON'T I JUST START WITH YOU AND YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR FIRST HAND FRONT LINE EXPERIENCE IS WITH WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE PERHAPS BEEN ABLE TO DO 10-12 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED TEACHING VERSUS TODAY WAS A DIFFERENCE.
林恩·惠特姆： 学生不同了。我们面临国际学生上限的问题。疫情之后，进入系统的国际学生数量问题变得更加尖锐。而且我相信，可以肯定地说，存在滥用现象。在招生方面存在滥用，一些国家的招生中介将学生送到这里的学院。一些学生利用学院系统和教育作为获得加拿大移民身份的途径，他们对教育的投入可能没有应有的那么强烈。学院鼓励招收国际学生是因为存在资金缺口。
>> SPEAKER: THE STUDENTS ARE DIFFERENT. SO WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENT CAP. AND AFTER THE PANDEMIC IT BECAME EVEN MORE ACUTE, THE NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT HAD COME INTO THE SYSTEM. AND IT'S SAFE TO SAY I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE ABUSES THERE WERE ABUSES IN TERMS OF RECRUITERS IN COUNTRIES GETTING THOSE STUDENTS TO THE COLLEGES HERE. SOME STUDENTS USE THE COLLEGE SYSTEM AND EDUCATION AS A WAY TO GET IMMIGRATION STATUS IN CANADA AND THEIR COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. COLLEGES ENCOURAGE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS BECAUSE OF THE FUNDING GAP.
史蒂夫·帕金：他们支付更高的学费。
STEVE: THEY PAY MORE.
林恩·惠特姆：他们支付的费用要高得多。而且存在巨大的资金缺口。从学院刚成立时，以及比尔·戴维斯对学院的设想（我认为非常出色）来看，学院大约80%的预算资金来自政府拨款。如今，这个比例在20%左右。所以想想这80%的缺口。因此，国际学生填补了这个财政缺口。问题是，他们对此并不那么感兴趣。其中一些人并不那么感兴趣。有些学生非常出色。他们中的一些人，很多人都是非常优秀的学生，渴望学有所成，并希望留在加拿大做出贡献，但另一些人只是将其视为进入移民系统的通行证。
SPEAKER: THEY PAY MUCH MORE AND THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT FUNDING GAP. ANYWHERE FROM WHEN THE COLLEGES STARTED AND BILL DAVIS IS VISION FOR COLLEGES WHICH I THINK IS BRILLIANT. COLLEGES WERE BEING FUNDED AROUND 80 PERCENT OF THEIR BUDGET DOLLARS. TODAY IT'S IN THE 20 PERCENT RANGE. SO THINK ABOUT THAT 80 PERCENT GAP THAT EXISTS AND SO THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WERE FEELING THAT FINANCIAL GAP. THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THEY WEREN'T THAT INTERESTED. AND SOME OF THEM WERE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN SOME OF THEM WERE TERRIFIC. SOME OF THEM, MANY OF THEM ARE EXTRAORDINARY STUDENTS AND WANT TO DO WELL AND WANT TO STAY IN CANADA AND CONTRIBUTE BUT OTHERS JUST THOUGHT OF IT AS A PASS TO THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
史蒂夫·帕金：看，我很理解今天在座的三位都在这个体系中谋生，你们热爱这个体系，是这个体系的拥护者。但我在想，对外国学生的依赖以及他们为了进入这个体系而支付的三倍或四倍的学费，是否导致了某些扭曲现象的发生，或者导致了一些问题未能得到解决。Maureen，您怎么看？
STEVE: LOOK AT, I APPRECIATE THAT THREE OF YOU HERE TODAY MAKE YOUR LIVING IN THE SYSTEM YOU LOVE THE SYSTEM YOU ARE CHAMPIONS OF THE SYSTEM. BUT I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THE RELIANCE ON FOREIGN STUDENTS AND THE TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE TUITIONS THAT THEY HAVE. IN ORDER TO BE IN THE SYSTEM HAVE ALLOWED CERTAIN DISTORTIONS AND EITHER DISTORTIONS TO HAPPEN OR PROBLEMS UNMET TO TAKE PLACE MORE RAIN WHAT YOU THINK.
莫琳·亚当森：我必须说，认为学生来这里是为了其他原因而滥用这个系统，这是一个相当宽泛的说法。我相信会有例外，但是学院在教育类型、学生必须遵守才能获准进入安大略省乃至加拿大任何一所学院的标准方面，拥有一个非常健全的质量框架。而且你知道，这个框架非常健全。学院是否不得不依赖国际收入？绝对是。在没有省政府其他资金来源的情况下，只有几种收入来源，国际学生是其中之一。
MAUREEN: I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS A PRETTY BROAD SYSTEM TO SAY THAT STUDENTS CAME HERE TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM FOR OTHERS REASONS AND I'M SURE THIS OTHER EXCEPTIONS BUT COLLEGES HAVE A VERY ROBUST QUALITY FRAMEWORK AROUND THE TYPES OF EDUCATION, THE KINDS OF STANDARDS THAT STUDENTS HAVE TO COMPLY WITH TO BE APPROVED TO COME TO A COLLEGE IN ONTARIO AND IN CANADA FOR THAT MATTER. AND YOU KNOW, THAT WAS VERY ROBUST HAVE COLLEGES HAVE TO RELY ON INTERNATIONAL REVENUES ABSOLUTELY. IN THE ABSENCE OF OTHER FUNDING THROUGH THE PROVINCE THERE ARE ONLY SEVERAL REVENUE STREAMS AND INTERNATIONALS ONE OF THEM.
史蒂夫·帕金： 那么让我接着说。联邦政府已经关闭了国际学生这个“水龙头”，所以你们没有了这部分收入。省政府，也就是进步保守党政府，已经冻结学费7年了，所以你们也没有那部分收入。你们现在的情况如何？
STEVE: SO LET ME PICK UP ON IT SO THIS BIG OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAS BEEN TURNED OFF BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO YOU KNOW HOW THAT REVENUE. THE PROVINCE HAS FROZEN TUITION FOR 7 YEARS THE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT REVENUE HOUSE CHAPTER YOU RIGHT NOW.
安·玛丽·沃恩：汉博学院可能是一个特例。从去年到今年，我们的国际学生数量没有下降。我们确实预计会出现下降，仅仅是因为政府签证的批准率。但我们并非国际学生入学率超过50%的院校之一；我们的比例是38%。所以我想说的是，国际学生的保留率更高，毕业率也更高，所以这些学生实际上表现得相当不错。他们绝大多数是带着明确的目标来到这里，并且在我们的体系中表现出色。并且填补了劳动力市场急需的岗位。当你查看毕业生的就业率时，毕业后6个月的就业率远超80%。雇主满意率也超过90%。
SPEAKER: HUMBER MAYBE AN ANOMALY WE DIDN'T HAVE A DROP IN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS FROM LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR. WE DO EXPECT WE WILL SEE A DROP SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE APPROVAL RATES FOR VISAS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT. BUT WE WERE NOT ONE OF THE INSTITUTIONS THAT HAD OVER 50 PERCENT INTERNATIONAL ENROLMENT WE HAD 38 PERCENT CORRECT. SO I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAD A HIGHER RETENTION RATE THEY HAD A HIGHER GRADUATION RATE SO THE STUDENTS WERE ACTUALLY PERFORMING QUITE WELL. THEY CAME HERE WITH THE MISSION OF MIND, THE VAST MAJORITY. AND THEY EXCELLED IN OUR SYSTEM. AND FAILING MUCH NEEDED JOBS IN THE LABOUR FORCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GRADUATION OUR EMPLOYMENT RATES, WELL OVER 80 PERCENT 6 MONTHS OUT OF GRADUATION. AND THE EMPLOYER SATISFACTION RATES WAS OVER 90 PERCENT.
史蒂夫·帕金：如果说我听到了一件事，那就是学费冻结加上外国学生（他们支付比国内学生高得多的学费）数量的减少，导致这个体系不再能够完成60年前设定的使命。这是对还是错？
STEVE: IF THERE'S ONE THING AND HERE IS THAT THE TUITION FEES PLUS THE REDUCTION IN FOREIGN STUDENTS PAYING THE MUCH HIGHER THAN DOMESTIC STUDENT TUITIONS HAS RESULTED IN A SYSTEM THAT IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FULFILL THE MISSION THAT IT HAD SET OUT TO DO 60 YEARS AGO. TRUE OR FALSE?
安·玛丽·沃恩：我不认为事情这么简单。并非我们没有完成使命。我们确实在继续完成我们的使命。这并不意味着我们没有经历财务挑战。而且这并非一蹴而就。加拿大联邦政府对高等教育的资助减少始于90年代末。我实际上在90年代末就以这个主题写了我的硕士论文。所以我们现在看到的是一个长期以来发生的侵蚀，历经多个政党参与加拿大和安大略省高等教育的融资。您说得对。我们的资金依赖于学费或政府拨款。但我们在加拿大确实有一个公共政策目标，即学生为其教育经历付费，政府也付费。所以我认为这是我们需要在安大略省进行的更广泛的公共政策讨论。这不仅仅是学院领域的问题；它也影响到大学领域。这是一个我们需要进行的更广泛的对话。
ANNE: I DON'T THINK IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT IS NOT THAT WERE NOT FULFILLING THE MISSION WE REALLY ARE CONTINUING TO FULFILL OUR MISSION IS NOT MEANING THAT WERE NOT GOING THROUGH FINANCIAL CHALLENGES. AND THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. THE DECLINE AND FEDERAL FUNDING FOR HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA STARTED IN THE LATE '90s I ACTUALLY DID MY MASTERS THESIS ON THIS TOPIC IN THE LATE '90s. SO WHAT WERE SEEING NOW IS IN EROSION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OVER MULTIPLE POLITICAL PARTIES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE FINANCING OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA AND ONTARIO. AND YOU'RE RIGHT. THERE WERE DEPENDENT ON EITHER TUITION OR GOVERNMENT GRANTS FOR OUR FUNDING. BUT WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC POLICY OBJECTIVE IN CANADA THAT STUDENTS PAID TOWARDS THEIR EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE AND GOVERNMENT PAY AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A WIDER PUBLIC POLICY DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN ONTARIO. IT'S NOT JUST A COLLEGE SECTOR IT ALSO IMPACTS THE UNIVERSITY SECTOR AND IT'S A WIDER CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE.
马丁·雷格·科恩： 这正好回应了您刚才说的。如果你想想魁北克多年前宣布的CEGEP（普通与职业教育学院）体系，人们先进入CEGEP，然后进入大学。这其中存在一些转换。我们现在讨论的，就是这种灰色地带。你听到关于学院“大学化蔓延”的说法，我愿意为此“挡枪”，并提出一些异议。先上大学，然后通过学院这个更具针对性、更贴近就业的“进修学校”来完成学业，这不失为一种有益的途径。但毫无疑问，学院确实存在“大学化蔓延”的现象。这其中也有原因，那就是大学能从学生身上获得更多资金，更容易维持现金流。我们今天会谈到各种各样的财政和政治扭曲。但当学院和大学开始变得一样时，比尔·戴维斯的使命就改变了。
>> SPEAKER: AND THAT'S A QUICK POINT TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE QUEBEC SYSTEM OF SEIZURE THAT WAS ANNOUNCED MANY YEARS AGO PEOPLE GO INTO THAT AND THEN UNIVERSITY AND THERE ARE SOME CONVERSIONS IS WHAT WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THAT GRAIN YOU HEAR ABOUT UNIVERSITY CREEP AND I THROW MYSELF ON THAT GRENADE FOR YOU AND TAKE SOME IS USEFUL TO GO TO UNIVERSITY AND FINISH OFF WITH A MORE SPECIFIC JOB SENSITIVE FINISHING SCHOOL AS IT WERE OUT OF COLLEGE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE HAS BEEN UNIVERSITY CREEP BY THE COLLEGES AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT AS WELL, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSITIES GET MORE MONEY FOR STUDENTS IT'S EASIER TO FINANCE THE CASH FLOW. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL DISTORTIONS WE WILL TALK ABOUT TODAY. BUT WHEN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES START TO BE THE SAME BILL DAVIS' MISSION IS CHANGED.
EN The Impact of International Students and Funding Gaps ZH 国际学生的影响与资金缺口
史蒂夫·帕金： 让我们谈谈这个，Lynn，我想听听您的看法。因为这些年来我和人们谈论过这个问题，并且我们在引言中也暗示过，人们看到学院体系目前发生的一些事情引起了极大的关注。不如就从您开始，您能否告诉我们，与您10-12年前刚开始教书时相比，您现在在一线教学中有什么不同的体验？区别是什么？
>> STEVE: LET'S, LYNN I WANT TO BRING YOU IN ON THIS. BECAUSE TO THE EXTENT THAT I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS OVER THIS. AND WE HINTED AT THIS IN THE INTRODUCTION. PEOPLE ARE SEEING THINGS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE COLLEGE SYSTEM THAT'S CAUSING A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN. WHY DON'T I JUST START WITH YOU AND YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR FIRST HAND FRONT LINE EXPERIENCE IS WITH WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE PERHAPS BEEN ABLE TO DO 10-12 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED TEACHING VERSUS TODAY WAS A DIFFERENCE.
林恩·惠特姆： 学生不同了。我们面临国际学生上限的问题。疫情之后，进入系统的国际学生数量问题变得更加尖锐。而且我相信，可以肯定地说，存在滥用现象。在招生方面存在滥用，一些国家的招生中介将学生送到这里的学院。一些学生利用学院系统和教育作为获得加拿大移民身份的途径，他们对教育的投入可能没有应有的那么强烈。学院鼓励招收国际学生是因为存在资金缺口。
>> SPEAKER: THE STUDENTS ARE DIFFERENT. SO WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENT CAP. AND AFTER THE PANDEMIC IT BECAME EVEN MORE ACUTE, THE NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT HAD COME INTO THE SYSTEM. AND IT'S SAFE TO SAY I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE ABUSES THERE WERE ABUSES IN TERMS OF RECRUITERS IN COUNTRIES GETTING THOSE STUDENTS TO THE COLLEGES HERE. SOME STUDENTS USE THE COLLEGE SYSTEM AND EDUCATION AS A WAY TO GET IMMIGRATION STATUS IN CANADA AND THEIR COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. COLLEGES ENCOURAGE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS BECAUSE OF THE FUNDING GAP.
史蒂夫·帕金：他们支付更高的学费。
STEVE: THEY PAY MORE.
林恩·惠特姆：他们支付的费用要高得多。而且存在巨大的资金缺口。从学院刚成立时，以及比尔·戴维斯对学院的设想（我认为非常出色）来看，学院大约80%的预算资金来自政府拨款。如今，这个比例在20%左右。所以想想这80%的缺口。因此，国际学生填补了这个财政缺口。问题是，他们对此并不那么感兴趣。其中一些人并不那么感兴趣。有些学生非常出色。他们中的一些人，很多人都是非常优秀的学生，渴望学有所成，并希望留在加拿大做出贡献，但另一些人只是将其视为进入移民系统的通行证。
SPEAKER: THEY PAY MUCH MORE AND THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT FUNDING GAP. ANYWHERE FROM WHEN THE COLLEGES STARTED AND BILL DAVIS IS VISION FOR COLLEGES WHICH I THINK IS BRILLIANT. COLLEGES WERE BEING FUNDED AROUND 80 PERCENT OF THEIR BUDGET DOLLARS. TODAY IT'S IN THE 20 PERCENT RANGE. SO THINK ABOUT THAT 80 PERCENT GAP THAT EXISTS AND SO THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WERE FEELING THAT FINANCIAL GAP. THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THEY WEREN'T THAT INTERESTED. AND SOME OF THEM WERE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN SOME OF THEM WERE TERRIFIC. SOME OF THEM, MANY OF THEM ARE EXTRAORDINARY STUDENTS AND WANT TO DO WELL AND WANT TO STAY IN CANADA AND CONTRIBUTE BUT OTHERS JUST THOUGHT OF IT AS A PASS TO THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
史蒂夫·帕金：看，我很理解今天在座的三位都在这个体系中谋生，你们热爱这个体系，是这个体系的拥护者。但我在想，对外国学生的依赖以及他们为了进入这个体系而支付的三倍或四倍的学费，是否导致了某些扭曲现象的发生，或者导致了一些问题未能得到解决。Maureen，您怎么看？
STEVE: LOOK AT, I APPRECIATE THAT THREE OF YOU HERE TODAY MAKE YOUR LIVING IN THE SYSTEM YOU LOVE THE SYSTEM YOU ARE CHAMPIONS OF THE SYSTEM. BUT I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THE RELIANCE ON FOREIGN STUDENTS AND THE TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE TUITIONS THAT THEY HAVE. IN ORDER TO BE IN THE SYSTEM HAVE ALLOWED CERTAIN DISTORTIONS AND EITHER DISTORTIONS TO HAPPEN OR PROBLEMS UNMET TO TAKE PLACE MORE RAIN WHAT YOU THINK.
莫琳·亚当森：我必须说，认为学生来这里是为了其他原因而滥用这个系统，这是一个相当宽泛的说法。我相信会有例外，但是学院在教育类型、学生必须遵守才能获准进入安大略省乃至加拿大任何一所学院的标准方面，拥有一个非常健全的质量框架。而且你知道，这个框架非常健全。学院是否不得不依赖国际收入？绝对是。在没有省政府其他资金来源的情况下，只有几种收入来源，国际学生是其中之一。
MAUREEN: I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS A PRETTY BROAD SYSTEM TO SAY THAT STUDENTS CAME HERE TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM FOR OTHERS REASONS AND I'M SURE THIS OTHER EXCEPTIONS BUT COLLEGES HAVE A VERY ROBUST QUALITY FRAMEWORK AROUND THE TYPES OF EDUCATION, THE KINDS OF STANDARDS THAT STUDENTS HAVE TO COMPLY WITH TO BE APPROVED TO COME TO A COLLEGE IN ONTARIO AND IN CANADA FOR THAT MATTER. AND YOU KNOW, THAT WAS VERY ROBUST HAVE COLLEGES HAVE TO RELY ON INTERNATIONAL REVENUES ABSOLUTELY. IN THE ABSENCE OF OTHER FUNDING THROUGH THE PROVINCE THERE ARE ONLY SEVERAL REVENUE STREAMS AND INTERNATIONALS ONE OF THEM.
史蒂夫·帕金： 那么让我接着说。联邦政府已经关闭了国际学生这个“水龙头”，所以你们没有了这部分收入。省政府，也就是进步保守党政府，已经冻结学费7年了，所以你们也没有那部分收入。你们现在的情况如何？
STEVE: SO LET ME PICK UP ON IT SO THIS BIG OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAS BEEN TURNED OFF BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO YOU KNOW HOW THAT REVENUE. THE PROVINCE HAS FROZEN TUITION FOR 7 YEARS THE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT REVENUE HOUSE CHAPTER YOU RIGHT NOW.
安·玛丽·沃恩：汉博学院可能是一个特例。从去年到今年，我们的国际学生数量没有下降。我们确实预计会出现下降，仅仅是因为政府签证的批准率。但我们并非国际学生入学率超过50%的院校之一；我们的比例是38%。所以我想说的是，国际学生的保留率更高，毕业率也更高，所以这些学生实际上表现得相当不错。他们绝大多数是带着明确的目标来到这里，并且在我们的体系中表现出色。并且填补了劳动力市场急需的岗位。当你查看毕业生的就业率时，毕业后6个月的就业率远超80%。雇主满意率也超过90%。
SPEAKER: HUMBER MAYBE AN ANOMALY WE DIDN'T HAVE A DROP IN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS FROM LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR. WE DO EXPECT WE WILL SEE A DROP SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE APPROVAL RATES FOR VISAS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT. BUT WE WERE NOT ONE OF THE INSTITUTIONS THAT HAD OVER 50 PERCENT INTERNATIONAL ENROLMENT WE HAD 38 PERCENT CORRECT. SO I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HAD A HIGHER RETENTION RATE THEY HAD A HIGHER GRADUATION RATE SO THE STUDENTS WERE ACTUALLY PERFORMING QUITE WELL. THEY CAME HERE WITH THE MISSION OF MIND, THE VAST MAJORITY. AND THEY EXCELLED IN OUR SYSTEM. AND FAILING MUCH NEEDED JOBS IN THE LABOUR FORCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GRADUATION OUR EMPLOYMENT RATES, WELL OVER 80 PERCENT 6 MONTHS OUT OF GRADUATION. AND THE EMPLOYER SATISFACTION RATES WAS OVER 90 PERCENT.
史蒂夫·帕金：如果说我听到了一件事，那就是学费冻结加上外国学生（他们支付比国内学生高得多的学费）数量的减少，导致这个体系不再能够完成60年前设定的使命。这是对还是错？
STEVE: IF THERE'S ONE THING AND HERE IS THAT THE TUITION FEES PLUS THE REDUCTION IN FOREIGN STUDENTS PAYING THE MUCH HIGHER THAN DOMESTIC STUDENT TUITIONS HAS RESULTED IN A SYSTEM THAT IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FULFILL THE MISSION THAT IT HAD SET OUT TO DO 60 YEARS AGO. TRUE OR FALSE?
安·玛丽·沃恩：我不认为事情这么简单。并非我们没有完成使命。我们确实在继续完成我们的使命。这并不意味着我们没有经历财务挑战。而且这并非一蹴而就。加拿大联邦政府对高等教育的资助减少始于90年代末。我实际上在90年代末就以这个主题写了我的硕士论文。所以我们现在看到的是一个长期以来发生的侵蚀，历经多个政党参与加拿大和安大略省高等教育的融资。您说得对。我们的资金依赖于学费或政府拨款。但我们在加拿大确实有一个公共政策目标，即学生为其教育经历付费，政府也付费。所以我认为这是我们需要在安大略省进行的更广泛的公共政策讨论。这不仅仅是学院领域的问题；它也影响到大学领域。这是一个我们需要进行的更广泛的对话。
ANNE: I DON'T THINK IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT IS NOT THAT WERE NOT FULFILLING THE MISSION WE REALLY ARE CONTINUING TO FULFILL OUR MISSION IS NOT MEANING THAT WERE NOT GOING THROUGH FINANCIAL CHALLENGES. AND THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. THE DECLINE AND FEDERAL FUNDING FOR HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA STARTED IN THE LATE '90s I ACTUALLY DID MY MASTERS THESIS ON THIS TOPIC IN THE LATE '90s. SO WHAT WERE SEEING NOW IS IN EROSION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OVER MULTIPLE POLITICAL PARTIES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE FINANCING OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN CANADA AND ONTARIO. AND YOU'RE RIGHT. THERE WERE DEPENDENT ON EITHER TUITION OR GOVERNMENT GRANTS FOR OUR FUNDING. BUT WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC POLICY OBJECTIVE IN CANADA THAT STUDENTS PAID TOWARDS THEIR EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE AND GOVERNMENT PAY AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A WIDER PUBLIC POLICY DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN ONTARIO. IT'S NOT JUST A COLLEGE SECTOR IT ALSO IMPACTS THE UNIVERSITY SECTOR AND IT'S A WIDER CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE.
马丁·雷格·科恩： 这正好回应了您刚才说的。如果你想想魁北克多年前宣布的CEGEP（普通与职业教育学院）体系，人们先进入CEGEP，然后进入大学。这其中存在一些转换。我们现在讨论的，就是这种灰色地带。你听到关于学院“大学化蔓延”的说法，我愿意为此“挡枪”，并提出一些异议。先上大学，然后通过学院这个更具针对性、更贴近就业的“进修学校”来完成学业，这不失为一种有益的途径。但毫无疑问，学院确实存在“大学化蔓延”的现象。这其中也有原因，那就是大学能从学生身上获得更多资金，更容易维持现金流。我们今天会谈到各种各样的财政和政治扭曲。但当学院和大学开始变得一样时，比尔·戴维斯的使命就改变了。
>> SPEAKER: AND THAT'S A QUICK POINT TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE QUEBEC SYSTEM OF SEIZURE THAT WAS ANNOUNCED MANY YEARS AGO PEOPLE GO INTO THAT AND THEN UNIVERSITY AND THERE ARE SOME CONVERSIONS IS WHAT WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THAT GRAIN YOU HEAR ABOUT UNIVERSITY CREEP AND I THROW MYSELF ON THAT GRENADE FOR YOU AND TAKE SOME IS USEFUL TO GO TO UNIVERSITY AND FINISH OFF WITH A MORE SPECIFIC JOB SENSITIVE FINISHING SCHOOL AS IT WERE OUT OF COLLEGE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE HAS BEEN UNIVERSITY CREEP BY THE COLLEGES AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT AS WELL, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSITIES GET MORE MONEY FOR STUDENTS IT'S EASIER TO FINANCE THE CASH FLOW. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL DISTORTIONS WE WILL TALK ABOUT TODAY. BUT WHEN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES START TO BE THE SAME BILL DAVIS' MISSION IS CHANGED.
ENOn-the-Ground Impact: Program Cuts and Staff Reductions ZH实际影响：课程削减与人员裁减
史蒂夫·帕金：Lynn，我想听听您在一线的经验。在您所在的乔治布朗学院和百年理工学院，您是否看到了课程削减、员工裁减等情况？
>> STEVE: LYNN, LET ME GET SOME ON THE GROUND EXPERIENCE FOR YOU. ARE YOU SEEING IN YOUR WORLD AT GEORGE BROWN AND CENTENNIAL COURSES CUTS, STAFF CUT YOU ARE OF THOSE THINGS.
林恩·惠特姆：我在百年理工学院教的那个项目被取消了。我任教的那个学院也关闭了。至于乔治布朗学院，我从去年十二月开始就没在那里工作了，因为没有课可上。我属于所谓的“部分负荷”教师，也就是每周教学6到12个小时的讲师。还有全职教员。所以从我的角度来看，部分负荷和兼职讲师基本上是隐形的。他们是合同制的，所以你可以取消合同，问题就解决了。重点一直放在保护全职人员上。而且全职讲师或教授的数量比部分负荷的要少。部分负荷和兼职人员是这个体系中承担大量繁重工作的人。在我教的一个项目中，有6名讲师：两名全职，四名兼职或部分负荷。所以你可以看到这个比例。我相信这个比例在很多项目中都是一致的。
>> LYN: THE PROGRAM THAT I TEACH AT CENTENNIAL HAS BEEN CUT. THE SCHOOL I TEACH AT HAS BEEN CLOSE. AND GEORGE BROWN I HAVE WORKED THERE THERE SINCE DECEMBER BECAUSE THERE AREN'T CLASSES AVAILABLE. I'M WHAT YOU CALL PARTIAL LOAD, WHICH IS AN INSTRUCTOR WHO HAS BETWEEN 6-12 HOURS TEACHING HOURS A WEEK. THERE ARE A FULL-TIME FACULTY MEMBERS. SO WHAT I'M SEEING FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IS THAT THE PARTIAL LOAD AND THE PART-TIME INSTRUCTORS ARE INVISIBLE. BASICALLY THERE ON CONTRACT SO YOU CAN CANCEL THE CONTRACT AND PROBLEM SOLVED. THE FOCUS HAS BEEN ON PROTECTING FULL-TIME AND FEWER FULL-TIME INSTRUCTORS OR PROFESSORS THAN PARTIAL LOAD THE PARTIAL LOAD AND PART-TIME PEOPLE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE DOING A LOT OF HEAVY LIFTING IN THE SYSTEM. SO I'M ONE OF THE PROGRAMS I TEACH AND THERE ARE 6 INSTRUCTORS, TWO ARE FULL-TIME, FOR PART-TIME. OR PARTIAL LOAD. SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE RATIO I'M SURE THAT RATIO IS CONSISTENT FOR MANY PROGRAMS.
史蒂夫·帕金：所以问题是……
>> STEVE: SO THE QUESTION IS.
林恩·惠特姆：很多人都走了。
>> LYN: LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE GONE.
史蒂夫·帕金：问题是：这个体系是否因为员工减少而不再那么优秀了？是否因为许多课程被削减而选择变少了？
>> STEVE: THIS IS THE QUESTION IS THE SYSTEM NOT AS ESCALATE BECAUSE THEY HAVE FEWER STAFF IS THERE LESS CHOICE BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE COURSES ARE BEING CUT?
莫琳·亚当森：我想回到比尔·戴维斯对学院的初衷使命。我们可以讨论收入来源以及农村社区和其他地方学生群体的稀释问题。你知道，私立职业学院这个“不光彩”的词，曾是平衡一些无法吸引国际学生的农村学院的一种方式。但这笔收入已明确投资于维持安大略省学院的使命，即提供那些重要的国内项目，无论是先进制造业、木工、健康科学、资源开采，还是现任政府施政纲领中的所有内容，都是通过这个子系统实现的。所以我说，使命一直完好无损，尽管我们不得不为此使用国际收入。
>> SPEAKER: I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE MISSION OF THE BILL DAVIS AND TENTS FOR COLLEGES, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE REVENUE STREAMS AND THE DILUTION OF STUDENT BODIES AND RURAL COMMUNITIES AND OTHER PLACES, YOU KNOW THE DIRTY WORD OF PRIVATE CAREER COLLEGES WAS A WAY TO EQUALIZE SOME OF THE RULE COLLEGES THAT CAN ATTRACT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS. BUT THAT REVENUE HAS BEEN CLEARLY INVESTED TO MAINTAIN THE MANDATE OF COLLEGES IN ONTARIO. TO DELIVER ON THOSE IMPORTANT DOMESTIC PROGRAMS WHETHER IT'S ADVANCE MANUFACTURING, COPPER TREE HEALTH SCIENCES RESOURCE MINING EVERYTHING IN THE OCCURRENCE GOVERNMENTS PLATFORM HAS BEEN DELIVERED THROUGH THIS SUBSET. SO I SAY THE MANDATE HAS BEEN WELL INTACT ALTHOUGH WE HAD TO USE INTERNATIONAL REVENUE TO DO SO.
史蒂夫·帕金：我必须理解这笔账。您更清楚，也许您可以帮我。如果你们所有的学生在过去7年里都经历了学费冻结，这意味着你们现在的收入和7年前一样，而外国学生这个“水龙头”也被关掉了，所以你们没有了那个，请原谅我这么说，可以依赖的“摇钱树”。而且安大略省政府也没有增加对高等教育机构的拨款。你们是如何维持运营的？
STEVE: I HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE MATH YOU'RE BETTER SO MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME IF ALL OF YOUR STUDENTS HAVE HAD A TUITION FREEZE FOR THE LAST 7 YEARS. MEANING YEAR THE MONEY YOU'R TAKING AND IS THE SAME AS AND WHEN YOU TOOK IN 7 YEARS AGO INE SPIGOT ON FOREIGN STUDENTS HAS BEEN TURNED OFF SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CASH COW FORGIVE ME TO RELY ON. IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO IS NOT INCREASING ITS ALLOCATION TO POST SECONDARY INSTITUTIONS. HOW ARE YOU KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON?
安·玛丽·沃恩：嗯，对于汉博学院来说，这是50年来对该机构非常出色的财务管理。
>> SPEAKER: WELL, FOR HUMBER'S IT'S BEEN 50 YEARS OF VERY GOOD PHYSICAL MANAGEMENT OF THE INSTITUTION.
史蒂夫·帕金：别开玩笑了。
STEVE: COME ON.
安·玛丽·沃恩：我们今年必须找到资金；我们做到了。明年将会更具挑战性。至于汉博学院，我曾担任Loyalist学院的校长；对于农村校区来说，情况要困难得多。但我可以告诉您，在审计长的报告中，以及回应Martin的观点，没有任何一个例子表明国内学生被国际学生取代了。
>> SPEAKER: WE HAD TO FIND FUNDING THIS YEAR WE WERE ABLE TO DO IT NEXT YEAR IS GOING TO BECOME MORE CHALLENGING AND FOR HUMBER I'VE BEEN THE PRESIDENT OF LOYALIST COLLEGES IT'S MUCH MORE CHALLENGING FOR RURAL CAMPUSES BUT I WILL TELL YOU IN THE AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT AND TO MARTIN'S POINT THERE WAS NOT ONE EXAMPLE THAT SPOUT THAT A DOMESTIC STUDENT WAS DISPLACED BY AN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS.
史蒂夫·帕金：没有人这么指控。
STEVE: NOBODY IS ALLEGING THAT.
安·玛丽·沃恩：但我确实认为公众这里有一种假设，即通过引进国际学生，他们取代了国内学生。他们实际所做的是保持了许多农村校区项目的稳定，因为这些校区可能本来就有国内学生，他们可以抵消一部分，但在其他方面……
>> SPEAKER: BUT I DO THINK THERE IS AN ASSUMPTION HERE BY THE PUBLIC THAT BY BRINGING AN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT THEY HAVE DISPLACED DOMESTIC WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DID WAS KEEP PROGRAMS STABLE AT MANY OF THE RULE CAMPUSES BECAUSE THEY MIGHT HAVE TAGGED DOMESTIC STUDENTS AND THEY CAN OFFSET THAT BUT IN OTHERS.
马丁·雷格·科恩：但是恕我直言，那并非取代，而是导向的扭曲。我想我们早些时候从Lynn那里听到了，当60%的学生并非来自安大略省时，尽管我非常喜欢外国学生，认为他们能激发思维、开阔眼界，但可能会有语言障碍，可能会有其他不同的职业挑战。你不能假装一个班级或一个校区，比如说75%是国际学生，它还能像以前一样关注本地需求。但我并不是在指责大学或学院，抱歉。我是在指责那个制造了扭曲资金模式的政府。它在争辩，我们都同意，你不能在先削减资金后再冻结现金流7年。如果政府想 populist，反对党政客也想 populist，因为他们和道格·福特唱的是同一个调子，他们都想要冻结学费。那么当然，学院就不得不在其他地方弥补差额。这并非最佳方案。有趣的是，大约二十年前，自由党政府选择了鲍勃·雷（Bob Rae）就学费问题做一份报告，该报告建议，这位前社会主义省长建议提高学费水平，理查德·约翰斯顿（Richard Johnston）和比尔·戴维斯（Bill Davis）也是该委员会的成员。所以几年前成立的蓝带小组建议学费上涨5%，然后是2%，但政府一直拒绝。
>> SPEAKER: BUT WITH RESPECT THAT IS NOT A DISPLACEMENT BUT THERE IS A DISTORTION OF THE ORIENTATION AND I THINK WE HEARD THAT EARLIER FROM LYNN THAT WHEN 60 PERCENT OF THE STUDENTS ARE NOT FROM ONTARIO AS MUCH AS I LOVE FOREIGN STUDENTS AS A STIMULATING WAY TO BROADEN THE MONEY THERE MAY BE LANGUAGE CHALLENGES THERE MAY BE OTHER CAREER CHALLENGES THAT ARE JUST DIFFERENT. YOU CANNOT PRETEND THAT A CLASS OR A CAMPUS THAT IS 75 PERCENT LET'S SAY INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS IS AS FOCUS ON LOCAL NEEDS BUT I'M NOT BLAMING THE UNIVERSITIES WITH THE COLLEGES FOR THAT I'M SORRY. I'M BLAMING THE GOVERNMENT THAT CREATED THE DISTORTED FUNDING MODEL ST WAS ARGUING WE WOULD ALL AGREE HERE. YOU CANNOT FREEZE CASH FLOW FOR 7 YEARS AFTER FIRST CUTTING IT. IF THE GOVERNMENT WANTED TO BE POPULOUS IN THE OPPOSITION POLITICIANS WANTED TO BE POPULOUS BECAUSE THEY'RE SINGING THE SAME TUNE AS THIS IS DOUG FORD THEY ALL WON THE TUITION FREEZE. THEN OF COURSE COLLEGES HAD TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE ELSEWHERE. AND IT WAS AN OPTIMAL. AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT BOB BRAYED WAS CHOSEN BY THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT ABOUT TWO DECADES AGO TO DO A REPORT ON TUITION WHICH RECOMMENDED FORMER SOCIALIST PREMIER AT RECOMMENDING HIGHER LEVELS ALONG WITH RICHARD JOHNSON AND BILL DAVIS WAS ON THAT COMMITTEE AS WELL SO THE BLUE-RIBBON PANEL THAT WAS BROUGHT INTO YEARS AGO RECOMMENDED A TUITION FREEZE OF 5 PERCENT FOLLOWED BY 2 PERCENT THAT THE GOVERNMENT KEEPS REJECTING.
ENAlignment with Economic Mandates and Current Crisis ZH与经济任务的契合及当前危机
安·玛丽·沃恩：我想说，由于准入任务的缘故，学费对大学的价值比对学院更大；无论如何，学院的学费都更低。所以如果学费上涨，是的，它会帮助我们学院这个领域，没有人会否认这一点。但由于大学领域收入高，百分比的增长对大学领域更有价值。对我们来说，在安大略省进行这场对话真正重要的是，学院与政府经济任务的契合。没有我们的毕业生，你就无法发展能源部门，无法建造房屋，无法实施国家或省级的基础设施计划。因此，我们需要政策上的契合，我们扮演的角色是更直接的经济角色，涉及医疗保健、基础设施、住房和能源。如果你想想采矿业，绝大多数毕业生都将是我们的毕业生。我们需要对我们所做的工作以及该政策与我们将在联邦和省级层面看到的经济议程的契合有更深入的理解，并理解是我们的领域将填补这些工作岗位。
>> SPEAKER: I WOULD SAY, TUITION IS WORTH MORE TO THE UNIVERSITIES THAT IT DOES TO THE COLLEGES BECAUSE OF THE EXCESS MANDATE THE TUITION IS LOWER ANYWAYS. SO THERE WAS A TUITION INCREASE, YES, I WOULD HELP US OUT AS A COLLEGE SECTOR, NO ONE WOULD DENY THAT BUT IT'S MORE VALUABLE TO THE VERVE IS THE SECTOR BECAUSE OF THE PERCENTAGE INCREASE WITH THE HIGH REVENUE FOR THE AND UNIVERSITY SECTOR WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE, THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT IN ONTARIO IS THE ALIGNMENT OF COLLEGES TO THE ECONOMIC MANDATE OF THE GOVERNMENT. AND YOU CANNOT GROUT AN ENERGY SECTOR, YOU CANNOT BUILD HOUSES. YOU CANNOT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN EITHER NATIONALLY OR PROVINCIALLY WITHOUT OUR GRADUATES. AND SO, THERE NEEDS TO BE A POLICY ALIGNMENT OF THE ROLE THAT WE PLAY WHICH IS FAR MORE DIRECT ECONOMIC ROLE OF HEALTHCARE HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE OF HOUSING, THE ENERGY. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE MINING SECTOR AT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE GRADUATES ARE GOING TO BE OUR GRADUATES. THERE NEEDS TO BE A REAL DEEP OR. BUT THE WORK THAT WE DO IN THE ALIGNMENT OF THAT POLICY WITH THE ECONOMIC AGENDAS THAT WE WILL BOTH SEE FEDERALLY AND PROVINCIALLY AND UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S OUR SECTOR THAT WILL FILL THOSE JOBS.
马丁·雷格·科恩：非常简短的一点。
>> SPEAKER: VERY QUICK POINT.
林恩·惠特姆：它正在发生；它没有发生。
>> SPEAKER: IT IS HAPPENING IT'S NOT HAPPENING.
林恩·惠特姆：这种契合并没有发生。建筑项目管理专业在两所学院被取消了。这些人正是我们面临的住房问题、建造新房所需要的人才。我认为汉博学院的情况与大多数学院不同，但我们正在讨论……我不知道裁员人数、取消项目的汇总数据在哪里，根本找不到。我不知道在哪里。但是范莎学院裁员400人，莫霍克学院裁员450人。这些消息都是零零星星地出来的。有些学院甚至没有公布裁员人数和削减项目数量。所以我们对学院体系目前的状况没有一个清晰的了解。我甚至认为它正处于一点危机之中。不，它正处于危机之中。为了解决预算问题，事情不得不迅速发生。学院在取消项目方面犯了与需求不符的错误。他们试图将项目与联邦政府允许国际学生进入的领域对齐，而不是与经济需求对齐。所以危机正在发生。当你想到比尔·戴维斯的使命时，我认为那是卓越的。当我刚进入学院体系教书时，我完全不知道学院所做的工作以及那是多么了不起。而我现在确实看到它正在被挥霍。我看到它在退化。
>> SPEAKER: IN THE ALIGNMENT IS NOT HAPPENING CONSTRUCTION PROGRAM MANAGEMENT ELIMINATED TO COLLEGES. THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE YOU NEED FOR THIS HOUSING ISSUE THAT WERE FACING TO BUILD NEW HOMES. AND I THINK HUMBER IS IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION THAN MOST COLLEGES BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE AGGREGATION OF NUMBERS OF PEOPLE LAID OFF PROGRAMS CANCELLED THAT'S NOT ANYWHERE I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS. BUT 400 AT FANSHAWE, 450 AT MOHAWK. AND IT ALL COMES OUT IN DRIBS AND DRABS. AND SOME COLLEGES ARE NOT EVEN SEEING HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE BEING LAID OFF, HOW MANY PROGRAMS ARE BEING CUT. SO WE DON'T HAVE A CLEAR PICTURE OF WHAT THE COLLEGE SECTOR LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW. AND I WOULD SUGGEST IT'S IN A BIT OF A CRISIS, NO IT IS IN A CRISIS. THINGS ARE HAVING TO HAPPEN VERY QUICKLY TO ADDRESS THE BUDGET ISSUES. COLLEGES ARE MAKING ALIGNMENT ERRORS IN TERMS OF PROGRAMS THAT ARE BEING CANCELLED. THEY'RE TRYING TO ALIGN THEM TO WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL ALLOW INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS INTO RATHER THAN WHAT THE ECONOMY REQUIRED SO THERE'S A CRISIS HAPPENING. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT BILL DAVIS' MISSION WHICH I THINK WAS BRILLIANT WHEN I FIRST CAME INTO THE COLLEGE SYSTEM TO TEACH HAD NO IDEA OF THE WORK THAT WAS BEING DONE BY THE COLLEGES AND HOW EXTRAORDINARY THAT WAS. AND I DO SEE IT BEING SQUANDERED RIGHT NOW. I SEE A DEVOLVING。
马丁·雷格·科恩：只是对安·玛丽观点的一个快速补充。存在一种误解，不是在这个桌子上，而是在省政府和本届政府中，认为仅仅向技术行业投入资金就能解决经济挑战。认为如果你为木匠或其他建筑行业设立学徒计划，尽管这很有价值，但这就能让省政府自动满足需求。你仍然需要建筑经理，仍然需要航空工程师或受过航空培训的人员，这些都昂贵得多。你不能只创建木匠培训中心。再次强调，这并非要贬低那个角色。然而，这并非一种替代；它不能取代学院所做的事情。两者都必须具备。
>> MARTIN: JUST A QUICK FOLLOW-UP TO AN MARINES POINT THERE IS A MISSED APPREHENSION NOT IN THIS TABLE BUT AT THE PROVINCE AND BY THIS GOVERNMENT THAT JUST THROWING MONEY TO THE SKILLED TRADES WILL ANSWER THE ECONOMIC CHALLENGES THAT IF YOU CREATE APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS FOR CARPENTERS OR OTHER BUILDING TRADES AS VALUABLE AS THAT IS THAT THAT WILL SOMEHOW ALLOW THE PROVINCE TO MEET THE NEEDS ON AUTOPILOT YOU STILL NEED THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGERS, YOU STILL NEED THE ERROR ENGINEERS OR PEOPLE WITH ERROR NARCO TRAINING WHICH IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE AND YOU CANNOT JUST CREATE CARPENTER HALLS. AGAIN, THIS IS NOT TO DIMINISH THAT ROLE. IT IS NOT HOWEVER DISPLACEMENT THAT DOES NOT REPLACE WHAT COLLEGES DO. YOU HAVE TO HAVE BOTH.
莫琳·亚当森：如果可以的话，安大略省80%的技术培训由学院提供。学院每年培养3100名毕业生。而那些特定的行业则培养7000人。所以就您的观点而言，我认为学院和工会都有其空间，但我们不要忘记，学院仍然占据了该市场80%的份额。
SPEAKER: IF I MAY, COLLEGES PROVIDE A PERCENT OF TRAINING FOR TECHNOLOGY IN ONTARIO COLLEGES PRODUCE 3100 GRADUATES IN A YEAR THOSE PARTICULAR TDS PRODUCE 7000 SO TO YOUR POINT. I THINK THERE IS ROOM FOR COLLEGES AND THE TRADE UNIONS BUT LET'S NOT FORGET COLLEGES ARE SO 80 PERCENT OF THAT MARKETPLACE.
马丁·雷格·科恩：但是如果你想想上次二月份选举的竞选活动，道格·福特和部长们总是要与建筑行业结盟。我没看到他们在校园停留。他们是在编造我们所做的事情。
SPEAKER: BUT IF YOU THINK OF THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL IN THE LAST ELECTION IN FEBRUARY. DOUG FORD IN THE MINISTERS WERE ALWAYS GOING TO ALIGN WITH THE BUILDING TRADES AND I DIDN'T SEE THEM STOP THAT CAMPUS IS THE HERE WERE MAKING UP BUT WE DO.
史蒂夫·帕金：让我跟进一下，Maureen。安大略理工大学（Ontario Tech），我认为传统上它与汽车工人联系紧密，因为他们在离安大略理工大学所在的达勒姆地区不远的地方制造汽车。私营部门，通用汽车公司，福特公司，汽车工人，这些工会是否需要在他们所做的任何事情中扮演更重要的角色，以使这项工作在未来能够成功？
>> STEVE: LET ME DO A FOLLOW YOU MAUREEN ONTARIO TECH WHICH I THINK IT IS TRADITIONALLY VERY ALIGNED WITH THE AUTOWORKERS BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING CARS AND NOT TOO FAR AWAY FROM HER ONTARIO IN THE REGION. THAT IS A PRIVATE SECTOR DOES GENERAL MOTORS THAT YOU KNOW FOR DO THE AUTOWORKERS DO THOSE UNIONS HAVE TO PLAY A BIGGER ROLE AND WHATEVER THING THAT THEY DO THERE THAT WILL MAKE THIS WERE GOING FORWARD.
莫琳·亚当森：当我审视我们的经济时，我们所有重要项目都存在结构性赤字。所以你谈论的那些项目，正是因为我们无力承担而被削减的。我想到这一点，想到我们正在努力填补的5000个工作岗位。我想到关键矿产。我认为学院与这类毕业生以及所需的劳动力完全契合。并且仍然扮演着主导角色。私营工会有其作用，但学院从事这项工作已经很长时间了。我们拥有一流的设施。我邀请任何人来学院看看，例如弗莱明学院及其贸易中心。我们是这个领域的重要参与者，我们与政府保持一致，并希望成为解决方案的一部分。
SPEAKER: WHEN I LOOK AT OUR ECONOMY WE HAVE A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT AND ALL OF THE IMPORTANT PROGRAM SO YOU TALK ABOUT, THOSE ARE THE ONES BEING CUT BECAUSE WE CANNOT AFFORD TO DELIVER ON THOSE ONES. AND I THINK ABOUT THAT I THINK ABOUT 5000 JOBS THAT WERE TRYING TO FILL. I THINK ABOUT FLYING TARIFFS. I THINK COLLEGES ARE COMPLETELY ONLINE WITH THOSE SORTS OF GRADUATES AND THE WORKFORCE THAT IS NEEDED. AND STILL PLAY THE PREDOMINANT ROLE. PRIVATE UNIONS HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY BUT COLLEGES HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR A LONG TIME WE HAVE STATE-OF-THE-ART FACILITIES I WOULD INVITE ANYBODY TO COME TO A COLLEGE AND LOOK AT FLEMING COLLEGE FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE TRADE CENTRE. WE ARE IMPORTANT PLAYERS IN THIS AND WE ARE ALIGNED WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND WANT TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.
史蒂夫·帕金：弗莱明学院的一位前任校长此刻可能就坐在这张桌子旁。
>> STEVE: WAS A FORMER PRESIDENT OF FLEMING COLLEGE WHO MIGHT BE SITTING AT THIS TABLE WHO MIGHT BE SITTING AT THIS TABLE RIGHT NOW.
安·玛丽·沃恩：您提到了安大略理工大学。所有在安大略理工大学和核能领域开发的材料。因此，在我们提供的和安大略理工大学提供的之间，构成了安大略省发展能源部门所需的全部技能。学院正在做的是，我们正在联合更多的学院。因为有十万个工作岗位需要填补，才能获得所有这些技能。这远不止学院和汉博学院的工作。还有很多工作要做，安大略理工大学也在其核工业领域发挥领导作用。我们的领域与省内大学领域之间确实有更多合作的机会。我们与安大略理工大学的合作就是一个很好的例子，说明我们如何再次满足安大略省的经济优先事项，即能源、住房、基础设施和医疗保健。我们共同代表着这些行业所需的全部技能。
>> SPEAKER: YOU MENTION ONTARIO TECH. SO ALL MATERIAL DEVELOPED ONTARIO TECH AND THE NUCLEAR SECTOR. SO BETWEEN WHAT WE OFFER AND WHAT ONTARIO TECH OFFERS. THAT IS THE FULL SPECTRUM OF SKILLS THAT IS NEEDED TO GROW THIS ENERGY SECTOR FOR ONTARIO. AND WHAT COLLEGES DOING, WERE BRINGING MORE COLLEGES WITH US. BECAUSE THERE IS A HUNDRED THOUSAND JOBS TO FILL IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO GET ALL OF THOSE SKILLS IT'S MUCH MORE THAN JUST COLLEGES AND HUMBER'S WORK. THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO HAPPEN AS WELL AS ONTARIO TECH LEADING ON THEIR SIDE OF THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY. THERE IS REALLY OPPORTUNITIES FOR MORE COLLABORATION BETWEEN OUR SECTOR AND THE UNIVERSITY SECTOR OF THE PROVINCE AND WHAT WERE DOING WITH ONTARIO TECH IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF HOW WE FULFILL THE NEEDS AGAIN OF THE ECONOMIC PRIORITIES OF ONTARIO, WHICH IS ENERGY, HOUSING, INFRASTRUCTURE, HEALTHCARE. WE ARE ALL REPRESENTING TOGETHER THOUGH FULL SPECTRUM OF SKILLS THAT ARE NEEDED FOR THOSE INDUSTRIES.
ENGovernment Funding and Political Will ZH政府资助与政治意愿
史蒂夫·帕金：我完全理解您的观点，这就是为什么上周我和Martin在审阅安大略省预算时，令我惊讶的是，并且在了解您刚才所说的一切的重要性之后，我注意到未来三年内，政府对培训、学院和大学部的拨款将减少14亿。我的意思是，我的数学不太好，但我不认为从系统中削减14亿之后，还能达到您想要的影响。谁能告诉我，尽管有这次削减，一切仍会顺利进行？
STEVE: I THOROUGHLY TAKE YOUR POINT WHICH I THINK WHEN MARTIN AND I WERE LOCKED UP IN THE BUDGET LAST WEEK READING THE BUDGET OF ONTARIO TO MY SURPRISE, TO MY SURPRISE AND KNOWING THE SIGNIFICANCE OF ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU JUST SAID. I NOTE A DECLINE IN GOVERNMENT FUNDING TO THE MINISTRY OF TRAINING COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES BY 1.4 BILLION OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS. I MEAN, I'M NOT GREAT AT MATH BUT I DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN CUT A BILLION FOR OUT OF THE SYSTEM AND STILL HAVE THE IMPACT THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE. WHO'S GOING TO JUMP IN AND TELL ME THAT THIS IS ALL GOING TO WORK OUT DESPITE THIS CUT.
马丁·雷格·科恩：我将持相反立场，我会说这正是挑战所在。而且这种情况正在重演：当你从系统中拿走那么多钱，当你还取消学费并冻结它。现任部长吉尔·邓洛普（Jill Dunlop）过去曾经营一家冰雪皇后（Dairy Queen）特许经营店，并且实际上是冰雪皇后经营者的代表。那是一份非常政治化的工作，所以她有一定的政治敏锐性。但我问，如果你是总部，如果总部告诉你必须将蛋筒冰淇淋降价10%并且冻结这个价格7年，你会如何经营你的生意？这是不可持续的。
MARTIN: I WILL TAKE THE OPPOSITE POSITION AND I WILL SAY THAT THAT IS THE CHALLENGE AND IT IS REPEATING WHEN YOU TAKE THAT MUCH MONEY OUT OF THE SYSTEM. WHEN YOU ALSO TAKE OUT TUITION AND FREEZES THE CURRENT MINISTER QUINN USED TO RUN A DAIRY CREAM FRANCHISE AND WAS IN FACT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OPERATORS IN DQ THAT'S A VERY POLITICAL JOB SO HE HAS SOME POLITICAL AGILITY BUT I ASKED HOW WOULD YOU RUN YOUR VISIT IF YOU WERE A HEAD OFFICE IF HEAD OFFICE TOLD YOU YOU HAD TO CUT YOUR CONES BY 10 PERCENT AND FREEZE THAT PERSON 7 YEARS. IT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE.
史蒂夫·帕金：她怎么说？
STEVE: WHAT DID HE SAY.
马丁·雷格·科恩：那是一次私下谈话，但她没有给出站得住脚的回答。
MARTIN: IT WAS A PRIVATE CONVERSATION BUT HE DID NOT HAVE A DEFENSIBLE ANSWER.
史蒂夫·帕金：嗯，您提到了巧克力蘸酱蛋筒冰淇淋，那确实很棒。然而，从更宏观的角度来看，Lynn，这正是高等教育体系未来的样子，学院将不得不在这次资金削减中承担自己的角色。我不知道在投入系统的资金减少的情况下，你们如何继续提供最好或更好的服务。我不知道。
STEVE: WELL, YOU'VE REFERENCED CHOCOLATE DIPPED CONES WHICH ARE TERRIFIC. HOWEVER, ON A GRANDER SCALE THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE FUTURE LOOKS LIKE, LYNN FOR THE POST SYSTEM AND COLLEGES WILL HAVE TO PLAY THEIR PART IN THAT FUNDING DROP. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CONTINUE TO OFFER THE BEST OR BETTER SERVICE WHEN YOU HAVE LESS MONEY GOING INTO THE SYSTEM I DON'T KNOW.
林恩·惠特姆：这就是对教育的轻视。现在是这个省份轻视教育的时候了。比尔·戴维斯的愿景是教育是成功的关键，而我们正在剥夺这一点。这行不通，也绝不会奏效。我们知道大学也面临这个问题。我们怎么能合乎逻辑地剥夺我们年轻人接受教育和职业培训的机会，同时还想拥有一个繁荣的经济呢？这怎么可能？
>> LYN: WHAT THIS IS THE PRIORITIZING IS EDUCATION. IT IS A TIME TO BE THE PRIORITIZING EDUCATION IN THIS PROVINCE. IT IS IN IT BILL DAVIS IS VISION THAT EDUCATION WAS THE KEY FOR SUCCESS IN OUR PULLING THAT AWAY. I CAN'T WORK AND IT WILL NOT WORK WE KNOW UNIVERSITIES ARE DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE AS WELL. HOW CAN WE LOGICALLY TAKE AWAY THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR EDUCATION FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE AND TRAINING FOR JOBS. AND HAVE A THRIVING ECONOMY HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE.
史蒂夫·帕金：Maureen，当您参加预算简报会，看到预算减少了14亿时，您作何反应？
STEVE: MAUREEN WHEN YOU HAD YOUR BUDGET BRIEFING A NEW SET THAT IT WAS A BILLION FOR LESS HOW DID YOU REACT.
莫琳·亚当森：当然，有些资金是限时性的，所以我认为这是资金减少的一个重要原因。因此，我不认为这应该被误读。但我会说，这并不能否认我们面临问题的事实，我们需要与省政府密切合作，以确保我们解决这些资金问题。特别是在劳动力非常重要的领域。以及我们谈论的所有领域：技工、技术、建筑，所有这些。我认为我们需要关注这些领域，并且在这方面我们与施政纲领是一致的。但我们需要共同努力。
SPEAKER: CERTAINLY, THERE IS SOME FUNDING THAT WAS TIME-LIMITED SO I THINK THAT'S A BIG PIECE OF THE DECLINE. SO I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE MISREAD. BUT I WILL SAY THAT IT DOESN'T NEGATE THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM ON HER HANDS AND WE NEED TO WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH THE PROVINCE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SOLVE THESE FUNDING ISSUES. AND PARTICULARLY IN THE AREAS WHERE THE WORKFORCE IS SO IMPORTANT. AND ALL THE AREAS THAT WE TALK ABOUT TRADES TECHNOLOGY BUILDING ALL OF IT. AND I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THOSE AND WE ARE ALIGNED WITH THE PLATFORM IN THAT REGARD. BUT WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.
马丁·雷格·科恩：Maureen指的是一次性超过十亿的补充拨款，这是政府正在做的事情，而不是听取其蓝带小组的意见，该小组建议投入数十亿美元，提高学费。他们投入的资金不到一半，而且是以零敲碎打的方式进行的，这并不适用于基础资金，也无法完成任务。但归根结底，这是政治问题，学院成了政治皮球。我认为，对于在座的每个人来说，挑战的一部分在于，选民似乎不像对待从幼儿园到12年级教育那样关注这个问题。当K-12阶段出现罢工或挑战时，家长们会强烈要求学校董事采取行动。但涉及到学院和大学时，首先，年轻人的投票率不高，他们就是不投票。其次，家长们似乎对这个问题不那么积极。所以各党派的政客们都能侥幸过关。
SPEAKER: WHAT MARINE IS REFERRING TO IS THAT THERE WAS A ONE-TIME BILLION PLUS SUPPLEMENTS WHICH IS WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING RATHER THAN LISTENING TO ITS OWN BLUE-RIBBON PANEL WHICH SAID BRINGING A COUPLE BILLION OF DOLLARS IN RAISE TUITION THEY BROUGHT IN LESS THAN HALF OF THAT AND THEY DID IT IN A PEACEFUL WEIGHT THAT DOESN'T APPLY TO BASE MONEY AND IT WILL NOT GET THE JOB DONE. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S ABOUT POLITICS AND COLLEGES ARE A POLITICAL FOOTBALL AND PART OF THE CHALLENGE I THINK FOR EVERYBODY AT THIS TABLE IS THAT VOTERS DO NOT SEEM TO BE SEIZED OF THIS ISSUE. THE WAY THEY ARE FROM KINDERGARTEN TO GRADE 12 WHEN THERE IS A WALKOUT OR A CHALLENGE K-12 PARENTS ARE CLAMBERING FOR ACTION FROM SCHOOL TRUSTEES. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES. A, YOUNG PEOPLE DON'T VOTE IN THE SAME NUMBERS THEY JUST DON'T AND PARENTS DON'T SEEM TO BE AS MOTIVATED ON THIS ISSUE SO POLITICIANS FROM ALL PARTIES THEY GET AWAY WITH IT.
安·玛丽·沃恩：我完全同意您的观点。我确实相信这是一种有趣的群体动态，会影响公共政策，我们需要公众意识到我们在社会中扮演的角色。你不能说我们无法获得医疗保健，却不资助那个提供护士、个人护理员和医疗中心技术人员的系统。所以必须……这就是我关于公共政策目标与其他政策（无论是省的卫生政策还是经济政策）相一致的观点。我们需要省政府真正理解这两者之间的直接关系。没有人才，你就无法发展一个行业。没有人才，你就无法实现能源自主。我认为从公众视角和公私合作视角来看，我们必须做得更好，确保公众了解我们所处的位置以及我们需要公众的支持，因为政府会对公众压力做出回应。这就是我们作为一个系统可以做得更好的地方，以便更好地倡导我们所需，从而能够成为行业、雇主的合作伙伴，并为公众自身提供他们希望获得的服务。
SPEAKER: I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT POINT. I DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS AN INTERESTING GROUP DYNAMIC THAT WILL IMPACT PUBLIC PRIVACY POLICY AND WE NEED THE PUBLIC TO BE CONSCIOUS OF THE ROLE THAT WE PLAY IN SOCIETY. AND YOU CANNOT SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE WITHOUT FUNDING BEING THE SYSTEM THAT PROVIDES TO NURSES. AND W'S. AND TECHNICIANS IN THE HEALTHCARE CENTRE. SO IT HAS TO BE. THAT IS MY POINT OF THE ALIGNMENT OF THE APOLOGY OBJECTIVES WITH OTHER POLICIES WHETHER HIS HEALTH OR ECONOMIC POLICIES OF THE PROVINCE WE NEED THE PROBLEM IS TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIRECT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THOSE TWO. YOU CANNOT GROW A SECTOR WITHOUT THE PEOPLE TO DO IT. YOU CANNOT HAVE ENERGY, AUTONOMY WITHOUT THE PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO DO IT. AND I THINK FROM A PUBLIC PERSPECTIVE AND A PRIVATE PUBLIC PERSPECTIVE WE HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB OF MAKING SURE THAT THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS WHERE WE ARE AND THE SUPPORT THAT WE NEED FROM THE PUBLIC, BECAUSE GOVERNMENTS RESPOND TO PUBLIC POLICY. AND THAT IS WHERE WE COULD DO BETTER ALIGNMENT AS A SYSTEM TO BE ABLE TO ADVOCATE MORE FOR WHAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO BE THAT PARTNER WITH INDUSTRY, EMPLOYERS AND FOR THE PUBLIC ITSELF TO HAVE THE SERVICES THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
ENFuture Readiness and Concluding Thoughts ZH未来准备与总结思考
史蒂夫·帕金：Lynn，我想问问您，鉴于我们现在讨论的所有情况，您是否认为您遇到的学生能够为未来做好准备？
>> STEVE: LYNN, WANT TO ASK WHETHER YOU FEEL THAT THE STUDENTS THAT YOU ENCOUNTER WILL BE AS READY TO FACE THE FUTURE IN LIGHT OF EVERYTHING WE TALKED ABOUT NOW GOING FORWARD.
林恩·惠特姆：我认为这是一个非常好的问题。所以，我注意到学院的一个特点是，而且我在大学待了很长时间，但学院的创新更快，反应更灵敏。现在，我所教的课程正在尝试将人工智能融入教学，研究人工智能的影响等等。因此，我认为当你谈论未来会是什么样子，我们现在教给年轻人什么才能让他们为未来做好准备时，我会说，一些学院在快速创新和快速实施方面处于最佳位置。因此，如果教育系统得不到资助和优先考虑，失去这种能力将对经济造成损害，对试图在这个世界中闯荡的年轻人造成损害。目前情况非常不确定。因为他们将不具备理解这个世界以及机遇所在的技能。
>> LYN: I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. SO, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I NOTICED ABOUT COLLEGES AND I SPENT A LOT OF TIMES AT UNIVERSITY BUT COLLEGES INNOVATION IS FASTER, IT'S MORE RESPONSIVE, RIGHT NOW THE PROGRAMS THAT I TEACH IN ARE TRYING TO INTEGRATE AI TO THE TEACHING LOOKING AT THE IMPACTS OF AI ET CETERA. AND, SO I THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT IS THE FUTURE GOING TO LOOK LIKE. WHAT DO WE TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE NOW? TO BE EQUIPPED FOR THE FUTURE. I WOULD ARGUE THAT SOME OF THE COLLEGES ARE IN THE BEST PLACE TO INNOVATE AROUND THAT ISSUE QUICKLY AND IMPLEMENT QUICKLY. SO, LOSING THAT CAPACITY IN THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM OF IS NOT FUNDED AND PRIORITIZED IS GOING TO BE DAMAGING TO THE ECONOMY TO YOUNG PEOPLE AS THEY TRY TO NAVIGATE IN THIS WORLD. IT IS SO UNCERTAIN AT THE MOMENT. BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE SKILLS TO UNDERSTAND THAT WORLD AND WHERE THE OPPORTUNITIES LIE.
史蒂夫·帕金：Maureen，最后请您发言。人们常说学院体系是世界羡慕的对象。比尔·戴维斯曾派他的学院和大学部长去伊朗，因为他们对建立他们现有的体系感兴趣。我们现在是否仍然拥有一个令世界羡慕的体系？
STEVE: MARINE I WILL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD HERE IT HAS OFTEN BEEN SAID THAT THE COLLEGE SYSTEM IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD BILL DAVIS SAID HIS COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITY MINISTERS TO IRAN BECAUSE THEY WERE INDUSTRY AND BUILDING THE SYSTEM THAT THEY HAVE NOW DO WE STILL HAVE A SYSTEM