All: All right, everybody. Welcome back to the number one podcast in the world. Your favorite podcast, the all-in podcast with me again, the core four, the original four, David Freeberg, Jamal, Pololly, Hapatia, David Saxs are here. And there is a lot going on in the world. Gentlemen, how's everybody's week going? Anybody got big plans for next week?

Jal: Jal, your ship has finally come in. Your invitation was not lost in the mail.

Jason: What? Really? I bet

Jal: you have been invited to Davos.

Jason: What? I got to get my guitar.

All: Oh, Davos.

Jason: I'm going to bring my guitar. Don't blow it. And explain to the audience what's happening here, Saxs.

Saxs: What's happening?

Jason: Well, as it turns out, one of the houses there is in need of content. So, they've offered all in a stage to interview people.

All: All right. So, we got stage microphone. You're going

Jason: I'm going. Yeah,

Saxs: President Trump is giving a major talk there on Wednesday, I understand. Uh, and so there is a stage and microphones. So, I'm I canceled my ski trip in Japan to go to Davos.

All: Even Jason is going

Saxs: Even J.

All: Even JC is at Davos.

Saxs: Even JC.

Jason: I mean, it's pretty funny. I was invited to be part of that like um you probably got this tuchimoth back in the day like they're young leaders for $50,000 a year. So we're going to be doing some interviews and uh if you want to be interviewed by me andor saxs at the USA house, email jasonallin.com if you're there, if you have ideas for speakers and we're going to be booking in real time.

Chamath: I haven't been to Davos. I guess the way it works is there's a bunch of houses. So, countries have houses and then companies sponsor houses

Saxs: and there's stuff happening there. There's like stages set up and there's constant interview. So, you know, I've gotten a bunch of requests. Basically, everyone's interviewing everyone else at Davos. Does that make sense? I mean, it's like all the attendees are just constantly interviewing each other.

Jason: It's like the podcast circuit.

Saxs: All these podcasters now have run out of guests, so they just interview each other in a giant circle. That's what it is. This is literally going to be Yeah. heads of state interviewing heads of state.

All: Yes. Everyone's just interviewing everybody.

Jason: Hey, welcome to the JD Vance show. I'm JD Vance. With me on the show today is Mandami. Welcome to the show. Everybody's doing collabs there. The snake has eaten its tail, but I think we'll have a fun time. Me and Sachs are going and we're going to we're going to tear it up and have a good time. The USA House, I understand, is like on a main street there. And uh my understanding is I was talking to the CEO of McKenzie who's one of the partners I guess who who sponsors a lot of the stuff at Davos.

Freeberg: Look at you rubbing elbows with the global elite talking texting with the deep state. This is fantastic.

Jason: Yeah. No, I'm going it's a deep state. It's my deep state era going into 2026. And um there's supposedly what the vibe is Saxs is people just kind of walk around the main town and they'll just pop into USA House and they network have a have a coffee. They take a coffee and then what we've got to do is have producer Lisa say, "Hey, do you listen to Allin? Hey, it's great to see you. Would you like to talk to David and Jason?" They're going to be sitting over here and just me and David are going to uh hold court. It's going to be fun. I'm looking forward to it. We have kind of like a little little man on the street.

Saxs: We might, you know, I've done a little uh vox pop in my deck and uh we might we might get a wireless microphone and go on the street and see what happens.

All: This is going to last 5 minutes until people hear that Jake is is being obnoxious and asking

Jason: question. You know, Jake, people don't know this, but Jal does an incredible Triumph the Insult comic dog impression.

Jal: Oh yeah, I do. I do.

All: Oh my god. If you went around.

Jal: Oh, dude.

Jason: Oh, yes. It looks like it's the prime minister of Germany. I understand. You turned off your nuclear at the right time. How's the data center project going? I heard the 15year-old Greta is uh doing your energy conservation and your strategy. How's that going for you?

All: It's not gonna last up again.

Jason: Yeah, we're gonna be detained at Davos. All right. All right, I guess we got to talk about what's going on in Iran. Regime change could be happening. There have been massive anti-regime protests over the last month. As everybody listening probably knows, Iran has been ruled by an Islamic dictator since the 1979 revolution. Ali Kumeni is uh in power since 1989. And if you want to understand why this is happening, there's probably two data points that you should know in the short term uh last you know six seven years inflation has been bonkers. If you think you know 7 8 9% inflation during co was acute and and you know 2.6 now people complaining about uh take a look at this chart boys. Uh it's it's been 30% on average since 2019 due to sanctions. Obviously, those things uh can work. There's been food shortages, people in the streets long-term. Here's a chart, and this is from 2020. So, you can add six years to the chart you're seeing here. But, uh there's a lot of young people in Iran, and the populace is made up of a lot of 20somes and 30somes. And they have Starlink and they have access and VPNs. And so, they want to be part of the future. They want to modernize sachs. This was a point of contention last year. We were talking about interventions going on, you know, foreign wars and your concerns about that. This one is from the bottom up. So I think that makes it quite different. Yeah.

Saxs: Well, look, this is a highly dynamic situation. And I don't really want to comment on something except to say that I trust President Trump to make the right decision and handle it. As I understand it, the protests are either fizzling out or being cracked down on at this point. And I tend to think it's dying down, but I'm not sure. And it's it's a dynamic situation. I really Look, the problem is whenever I comment on something like this, it ends up being Trump adviser David Sax says whatever.

Jason: Yeah. get clipped and

Saxs: and the reality is I'm only involved on two issues and this isn't one of them. So I don't really think I should be commenting.

Jason: Yeah, Freeberg, you've been talking about this and uh I think it was part of your predictions from the show last week, the prediction show. Here's your poly markets and then I'll let you give your thoughts on it. Kani out as supreme leader of Iran by January 31st. that was up uh around 27% and now has dropped to a 10% chance. And will the regime fall before 2027? $2.6 million in volume. 37% chance. It's been up there as high as I think 50 some odd percent. And this is before the end of the year. So h obviously a breaking news type situation by the time we tape on Thursdays as everybody knows I'm out on Fridays. So this could be radically changing. Just broad strokes. What are your thoughts here, Freeberg?

Freeberg: I mean, I think it's inevitable that there's a break in the country because of the effect of sanctions. The average income is about 200 bucks a month in Iran. And the price of food is roughly the same as the US, maybe a little bit less than the US. I mean, there a combo meal at McDonald's, I just pulled this up in Tan is four bucks equivalent. So again, if you're making $200 a month and it's four bucks to go to McDonald's, costs catch up pretty quickly. I think that ultimately is what breaks civil society is when people can't afford the things that they need and people have no choice but to stand up. and an oppressive system, an oppressive regime can keep people down for so long until they're starving or they can't get access to things like medical care. And these are the sorts of things that ultimately lead to these moments. So, it seems like it's an inevitability. The United States put a lot of pressure on the regime in Iran and it seems to be starting to break. The key question that everyone's asking is Trump going to act in supporting the revolution which theoretically I would imagine would involve attacking IRGC sites which are the revolutionary guard that are sort of the internal security force that maintains the regime's control over the people and if they take out IRGC sites will that actually result in the people being free and what's the transition plan? This is obviously a very messy situation. Reza Palavi is in Europe and he said he's ready to come back and he is the Sha's son and if he comes back how are you going to give him influence and control? This is the same question that recently came up in Venezuela. There is a very large infrastructure that needs to be overseen of government agencies and you know you can't bring an outsider in and just plug them right in to take over everything. It's a very difficult transition and that's when things fall apart when people steal stuff when uh things get turned off. So how do you maintain kind of the core functioning of society without breaking it by bringing someone new from the outside? That's where this gets very messy. So I I don't know what's ahead.

Jason: Yeah. And the strikes didn't happen last night. Bessant announced some increased sanctions. That always seems to be one of the best ways to handle this is to increase the economic pressure as you pointed out Freeberg and for people who don't who are not familiar Iran is a large country. It's the second largest in the Middle East behind Egypt I believe and close to 100 million people 95 million people I think live in Iran. Uh this would have a dramatic impact on the region if there was a transition here. Obviously, you've heard about uh different Houthis and Hezbollah being supported, funded, housed in Iran. So, this would be quite dramatic, huh? If this turned over, uh even if it's a 10 to 30% chance this were to happen, any thoughts on what that would mean? You know, we've been watching this modernization of the Middle East and just Saudi, UAE, Qatar, everybody having a seat at the table, increasing influence, increasing modernization in those countries. What would this do in the region?

Chamath: It's really hard to tell. It's an incredibly vibrant people. If you look at the Iranian diaspora, they're really a dynamic part of every culture they join. If you know Persians in LA or Persians, I mean, they're

Jason: I mean, you and I played poker with the diaspora in LA. These are the most people in Westwood. They're they're the greatest.

Chamath: They're the greatest people.

Jason: They're shutting the club down. The last people out at the game.

Chamath: Yeah, they're really great. The thing that I would say is that I don't think that you can paint the Middle East with the broad brush here. It's a very different culture than the other Middle East countries. It's a fundamentally different religion. It's a fundamentally different language. So, I would just say that I don't know what's actually going on in Iran. There's been so much information containment that I take Sax's point of view which is I think the only people in the United States right now that have an accurate sense are probably the military and intelligence apparatus of the United States and the rest of us are underreacting or overreacting to small pieces of information without really knowing the context and the mosaic of the whole. In a breaking news environment, it's uh best to do some research and uh yeah, be humble and thoughtful by the way about your positions. Yeah.

Freeberg: The crazy thing about this if you shift away from Iran was specifically the information warfare game is totally different. So what did you have? You had SpaceX enable Starlink over Iran and then there was the attempt to use that mechanism to get information out to fill in the mosaic. Right. So

Chamath: was what was happening 90%, was what was happening 10%. Was there counterrevolutions that were supportive of Kmeni? None of us knew anything cuz you would see these snippets and it was very hard to actually triangulate. Then you had this entire information channel get shut down and you had all kinds of blocking mechanisms that essentially drove the packet loss down to like 80 90%. And it's just important to understand that is the generation of warfare and information that we are going to see in every conflict going forward. Especially when you have something as ubiquitous as Starlink and other things in the sky to help you get the information out, you're just going to see these tactics increase.

Jason: And I don't know if you guys ever saw it. Anthony Bourdain, rest in peace, did a really great parts unknown in 2013 or

All: Anthony Bourdain I've ever watched.

Jason: Yeah. If you want to see Iran, it looks so amazing. Look at the Anthony Bourdain parts unknown in Tyrron. It looks like a party.

Chamath: Well, yeah. And young people there.

Jason: Total vibe there.

Chamath: Yeah. The young people are like really living their life under this oppression and you you really get the sense that they're not much different than us or or any other folks in the world. And the the journalists who took him around were later detained. And I really respect Andy Berdane for even doing that episode, man. They took a lot of risk doing that.

Saxs: Remember there was a period where one of the most popular accounts on Instagram was the rich kids of Tyrron,

Jason: right? If you follow them, you'd be like, man, this looks like

Saxs: LA or New York.

Jason: Yeah. Hong Kong. Yeah. London. Yeah. Dubai.

Chamath: Great potential there. We're rooting for the people of Iran to have their freedom. And uh yeah, I actually and I'll say Saxs, I trust Trump in his targeted neocon era. I'm trying to phrase it properly here to not offend anybody, but I think he's

Saxs: doctrine.

Chamath: Well, I mean, he he I think doesn't have a problem using our military and the force we have to take a dictator out if it doesn't cause World War II. And if two dictators and two societies are freed in first quarter of 2026, I mean, what does that even mean for his legacy? This could be the defining moment of his legacy. Yeah.

All: Means there's only a few of us left. Jason

Jason: dictators. Yes. He'll be coming for you.

Jason: All right. Microsoft is going to pay its own way on data centers. We've been talking about this um you know energy needs for AI data centers for a long time now and uh there's been this theme hey if the data centers are going to take all this energy it's going to spike local power consumption we saw a number of data centers gentlemen maybe pull out of projects where there was local push back on them on Monday President Trump our President Trump addressed this PR crisis on truth social calling out Microsoft and never want Americans to pay higher electricity bills because of data centers. Two words, data centers. I added the last part. Microsoft will make major changes beginning this week to ensure that Americans don't pick up the tab for their power consumption. Microsoft President Brad Smith announced they will pay higher electricity rates where they are building data centers to cover the cost of the new power generation and grid upgrades. Seems like a pretty simple idea. And they're also going to pay to replenish water that it draws from the reservoirs. That issue has also been a little bit overblown. Freeberg, you probably or actually tomorrow, you probably know a lot about that and you can explain the data center recycling water issues and the misperceptions. And they're not Microsoft has announced they're not going to accept any tax breaks or electricity rate discounts. So that era seems to have ended. Chop, you're involved in a number of data centers and obviously David Sachs, you're involved in this as are AIS are. and civil servants. So, Shabbath, why don't you start us off here?

Chamath: You guys can find the clip, but we talked about this a few weeks ago that these kinds of things were in the offing. I really like it. It's a very good first order set of things to do, which is to step into a local area and take all of these energy issues off the table,

Jason: at least to the extent that you're contributing to it.

Chamath: The problem is that the data centers are only part of the problem. The reality is that we have a whole new way of living that is drawing more and more electrons. We are at a shortage for what we need. The reaction of the utilities is to now build which is the right reaction. The problem is that for the last 20 years they've been underbuilding. So as they catch up, even if you have the data centers that are willing to pay their fair share, rates will still go up. So what do we need to do that is beyond what Microsoft just announced? I think all the hyperscalers should copy what Microsoft did. I think it's great that the president was able to get these guys to the table to agree to it. What is the next major thing? The next major thing is when you actually create a hundred or $200 billion tax equity vehicle and you have them completely subsidize and pay for the electricity costs of homeowners. How do you do that? You do that by paying for them to get solar and storage. Why would they do that? They would do that for two reasons. Number one, and the most important is that it will give them a social license to operate throughout the country. The second reason is that the president preserved the ability to make those kinds of investments and be tax advantaged for doing it in the one big beautiful bill. So if you put these two things together, I think step one is you go into a local area, you tell the local residents, we'll pay for the water, we'll make sure there's minimal noise, and we'll make sure that we take absolutely no discount. we pay our fair share even if it means paying more than you do for electricity. That's step one. But now I think we need to go in with step two. Here is a bunch of money that we have allocated to go and fit your house out with solar, with storage, with next generation heat pumps, with a modern set of infrastructure so that you are totally resilient and now you are completely ambivalent to what the grid has to do in reaction to all the demand that's coming.

Jason: Yeah. I had um Zack Dell from uh base power on this week in startups I don't know a year ago now and we were talking about this and I said hey why wh why why wouldn't you just and and what they do is not solar because solar takes time you got to rip up your roof there there's some complications with solar you need to have the space for it it's expensive to install they just put a battery like a little R2-D2 tube outside your house they fill up that battery when energy is cheap and plentiful and they deploy it when it's expensive and the grid has challenges and he said those kind of deals are in the works or the discussions were happening and that was back then. So this is a really easy win-win type situation. Shimath you're describing Sachs this feels like proactive now thoughtful ways to communicate to the populace of hey the AI boom is here and you have concerns we're going to get ahead of them. So have you been involved in any of these discussions? Is are you talking with Chris Wright and like overlapping in terms of the um communication here or is it just a free market solution?

Saxs: Well, Jason, the the president's been ahead of the curve on this issue really since the beginning of the administration. I don't know if you recall, but he said that he was going to make AI companies into the biggest power companies because he understood that the data centers that they needed required a lot of power, but they were going to stand up their own power generation and they wouldn't just draw off the grid. And so, I think this understanding has always been there. When I've talked to the hyperscalers, they also tell me that their plan is not to draw from the grid. It's to basically set up their own power generation behind the meter. It's called collocation. And in fact, I think ultimately this will bring down rates for residential consumers for two reasons. One is that when the data centers create their own power, they can sell back or donate back to the grid when they connect. They don't have to connect to the grid, but once they do, they can donate back. And then second, there's a number of fixed costs in power generation. It's not just variable, right? There's these large fixed costs. And so as you increase scale, those fixed costs get amvertised over a greater amount of supply. And that brings down the variable rate, basically the the metered rate for everybody. So scale is good. And I think the deceptive nature of the criticism here by like Bernie Sanders and people like that is what they say is well we just have to shut down all the data centers period when the real problem here is that he and others like him have overregulated power generation to death so that it's too hard to set up net new power. Right? I mean if power generation were easier there wouldn't need to be a limit on what the data centers could use. They could just bring their own power. So that is the obvious solution here and it's good to see Microsoft make this pledge and sort of formalize that. I think all the other hyperscalers will do that. Again, it was never part of their plan, I think, to draw on the grid for their power needs. They always, I think, understood that they'd have to stand up their own power. And the issue is just regulations getting in the way of that. And just one final point on this is that there are a bunch of regulations by FK for example that interfere with the ability to do collocation. Collocation is when you put a data center and the power generation next to each other or you do them together. And Chris Wright, the secretary of energy has directed FK to make a bunch of changes to make behind the meter and collocation easier so that these data centers can stand up their own power. And the only reason that hasn't happened is just because of the usual bureaucratic delays. But that is well on its way to happening.

Jason: All right.

Saxs: Does that make sense?

Jason: Yeah, it makes total sense. And you know, if we start thinking about incentives, incentives obviously matter. And I don't think a lot of people know this, but and I think I talked about it when we were talking about nuclear freeird in France. the people who live near the Avine uh I think is how it's pronounced uh reactor they pay 0.1% tax versus the 12% regional average and so they and then I think the UK has also talked about the sort of danger zone or uh proposals and payments you can give people a discount to incentivize them and reward them giving them free local electricity etc for living near a nuclear power plant that hasn't come up here in the United States and there's been a lot of of FUD, fear, uncertainty, and doubt Freeberg around these data centers. People throwing around a lot of talking points. I think you and I discussed offline the the misperceptions about water usage and that the water usage is largely recycled in these data centers. Um, if you know about that, would you would you inform the audience about that piece of data?

Freeberg: Well, we got a lot of water. It just goes around in a circle, so I don't think that's an issue. uh but clean water and the cost of clean water increasing for a local population is the misperception there.

Saxs: The modern cooling systems these data centers the water recirculates and transports the heat out of the data center. So it's not like the water is used up. I guess there's a separate type of evaporative cooling that does use up some water, but modern data centers don't use that. So, the water issue is really a a total hoax, and it's really kind of a subhoax of this larger affordability issue. I'm not saying that affordability isn't an issue, but it was caused by Biden's 9% inflation, and now Democrats are trying to make it an issue. When it comes to the power for data centers, again, this all comes back to the fact that the regulations make it too hard to generate net new power. So again, scaling demand on its own not a problem if you also scale supply of electricity. In fact, it brings down prices for everyone because scale creates economies of scale.

Jason: Yeah. And 90% of that water is reused and there's closed water loop systems. And

Chamath: here's my pitch. I think the president should try to create a three, four, 500 billion dollar tax equity fund and help eliminate the electricity costs of 50 to 100 million American households.

Jason: Amazing.

Chamath: Well, here's the let me let me give you the math. So, we consume in this country about 4 trillion kilowatt hours of electricity. Average price is 18 cents a kilowatt hour. So it's about call it $750 billion of spend on electricity every year. Onethird of that 250 billion is residential consumption. 2/3 of that 500 billion is industrial and commercial consumption. Theoretically you could increase the price on industrial and commercial consumption by call it 50%. And make all residential electricity in the United States free. If you're a residential user, you get a cap of free electricity every month. And if you use more than that cap, you get charged. But below that cap, you're free based on whatever square footage of your house, I don't know, whatever. And then on the commercial and industrial side, the reason you would then have an incentive to build private power systems would be that you can bring your cost down. And instead of centralizing all of this with the utilities, what it can do is it can force a market demand for industrial and commercial users to build their own power systems, which would increase overall electricity supply in the United States. The data centers are the tip of the iceberg. But if you make this a panindustrial problem, then all of the industrial companies would have to take this path. The problem is it doesn't change the net consumption model. If you actually go to solar and storage for every 15 million homes, you take a terowatt hour of demand off the grid. That's an extra terowatt hour that you don't need to build, but you can't build that quickly. So, the reason why I like solar and storage is you make these folks so self-reliant. Now, all of a sudden, we're actually catching up to China faster than we would have otherwise.

Jason: You're talking about residentials.

Freeberg: Yeah. Your idea, which is a good one, the problem is they're still using grid services,

Chamath: right? Or they don't have to. That's the point. Like if they end up the industrial users. Well, the industrial users will then invest in solar systems.

Freeberg: My point is today the homeowners are using

Chamath: there is no solution to not using.

Freeberg: Yeah. If the if the industrial price goes up by 50% you've now created a market force to drive them to make the investment particularly if you if you deregulated.

Chamath: I understand the math but my point is

Freeberg: and you get this and you get this first year capex depreciation. So they actually get a benefit and instead of putting all of the

Jason: guys you're talking through each other. Chimat's point is that you're still taxing the grid. His proposal adds another layer to what you're saying. So he's in agreement with you, Freeberg. Hey, yeah, let's have the businesses pay a little extra and and not or and let's have them take off the grid to reduce the grid. Well, there's 80 million freestanding homes in the United States and it's about 15k to put these battery packs in like base power zooing. You can probably get it down to 10. And if you just do back back of the envelope math, you're talking about a trillion dollars. So basically for a hundred billion, you could do 10% of the country. If you were to do that over some time period, we would have we would stop worrying about the grid, I think, is Chimoth's point. And you could do it with battery. You could do solar.

Chamath: Well, you would not stop worrying about the grid. But Jason, just to refine what you're saying because you're directionally very right. The consumers would feel less of these issues. And instead of all of us worrying how to underwrite terowatt hours to catch up to China, we actually get a two for one. The consumer homes don't have that anxiety anymore. They don't have the bill. And because they're generating their own power, they're off the grid. And now what that means is that extra terowatt hour can actually go to the commercial and industrial applications including these data centers. And you're right, Freeberg, we should raise their tariffs. I just think it's a lot it's a lot more complicated and a lot more expensive to ask everyone more complicated. Okay, listen. None of this is free. None of it's free. However, we have such an amazing opportunity with AI that it makes sense to do this. That I think is the big picture. AI is such a huge opportunity. There's so much invested. Why wouldn't you do this is the question. And if we're want to live in the age of abundance and we want to bring the bottom half of the country up and we want affordability, where do people spend their money? food, groceries, their rent, and their electricity and the utilities. So, we if we want to figure out a direct way to do this, and for all the hippie- dippies who care about the environment and clean energy, this is a win there as well. And it doesn't come out of Americans pockets and their taxes. It comes out of corporations which are printing money. If you want to talk about redistribution of wealth, this is a way for the great American max corporations to give something back to Americans. And you talked about this, right, off maybe three or four weeks ago that hey, maybe there would be some way for great corporations to do great things for Americans. The fact that Americans don't think about their water bill that much is a is a mitzvah. It's a great thing. Now, if they didn't have to think about electricity, wow, amazing.

Saxs: We will look back and I think that we will want to have seen these big companies who are unbelievably profitable step up on behalf of American homeowners.

Jason: Some might say obscenely profitable. I just think I just think it's a it's a great

Chamath: mission to the moon style framing to say what if we could make all residential electricity free in the United States

Freeberg: and over the next decade if we can do that not only do we help Americans with their wallet but we actually can enable a distributed investment scheme in American energy production and we force the corporations to step up and do their part rather than centralize it. So I I just like the framing of making this whole thing free, making residential electricity free in the US as a core benefit.

Chamath: The other thing is we've talked about this, I've mentioned this a couple times before. I think the single biggest dollar short, it's not clear when that one will be able to make will be on these utilities. Because if any version of what we just talked about happens and all of a sudden you have private homeowners that are their own utility and then Freeberg CNI being their own power utility, what do the utilities do? What does all this capex go to? How do they pay back their bonds? What happens to their rate base? This is a huge economic question that I think will come up if even a small modeicum of what we just talked about materializes.

Jason: Yeah. and uh you know people having their first x number of kilowatt hours a year free. You know obviously you're not going to have unlimited free. You know that that's going to be pretty transformative for America. It's aspirational. We all like the idea. I like it.

Jason: Okay. Open AAI has struck another compute deal. This one's worth over 10 billion. OpenAI is buying compute capacity from Cerebras. That's C E R E B R A S. They committed to purchase up to 750 megawatts over 3 years. Cerebrus like Rock makes specialized chips for AI inference. Cerebras is in talks to raise 1 billion at a $22 billion valuation according to reports and they're expected to IPO this year potentially in the next couple of months. Sam Waltman's an investor in the company. So, uh he knows it well and

Saxs: is he really stop?

Jason: I I mean it's in the notes. It's in the notes.

Saxs: You can't say this though if you don't know if it's true.

Jason: It's in the notes. It's in the notes. Take it out and post if it's not. I reported by the misinformation. I don't know. It could be information. Could be misinformation. Shout out.

All: Okay.

Jason: To our friends that they information.

Saxs: These were your competitors at Grock. Yeah. Uh Chima,

Chamath: they were contemporaries. Yeah.

Chamath: They're fantastic. We both started at the same time, we took slightly different technical approaches. The big difference that what Cerebra said initially from the start, and this is my friend Andrew Feldman, so I'll give him a shout out. Very smart guy. If you see a chip, what you actually see is a wafer. And a wafer is full of little chips, right? and you you literally tear them off. That's why they're called chips. Andrew was like, "No, I'm just going to make one ginormous chip the size of a wafer." And so if you look at it, Nick, maybe you can find a picture of it. These things are huge. And at the time, people were like, I don't think they really understood what the power of what Cerebras was building and what Andrew was building. And then the first folks that really got on board were the Emirates, so MGX and G42. And you started to run these models. And what you started to see was, man, their inference is blazing fast. Again, back to what we talked about last week because when you have the compute and the memory in the same place, physical distances are now minimized and the complexity is minimized. So, you just have incredible speed. What I can tell you is that OpenAI is aggressively trying to diversify so that they have multiple paths of inference available. They have a huge deal with AMD. They have a huge deal with Nvidia. They now have a huge deal with Cerebras. If you look at the trail of breadcrumbs, my belief there's going to be a renaissance in silicon. Young small teams building decode silicon can make a fortune over the next 10 to 20 years. It's a huge opportunity. It's going to be like the PC wars, Dell versus Compact versus all of these companies. It's super exciting. And congrats to Cerebras. They deserve it.

Freeberg: Is there um any argument that compute needs will level off in some way? will have built so much capacity and the software will get better. There's been some talk about anthropic being resource constrained as the contemporary to open AAI and I think there's pretty much uniformity amongst elite AI users that claude is a much better product now than OpenAI and the models are better, the applications are better but they're doing it with less. So could the buildout be could it slow down? Is that a scenario that's out there or is this always going to be up and to the right for the next five ten years? What's your crystal ball saying? Sax, are you still there?

Saxs: I'm here.

Jason: Oh, okay.

All: Why is he on Why is this video off? Turn it on.

Jason: I mean, you can turn it back on and then when you talk, we'll just go back and forth.

Chamath: Sex still has a ways to go, I have to say.

Jason: All right, there you go. All right. So, anyway, uh Abbott,

Saxs: this is your best internet.

Jason: Texas structure is uh

All: Oh my god. Sax is going to do the Abbott. Abbott will send someone over immediately. They're they're pretty responsive in Texas.

Saxs: My prediction is there'll be a big meme by the end of this year called the Texas Bounceback. And it's a bunch of billionaires. They do a little jiggy as they dance back from Texas back to California.

All: No. No.

Saxs: Ain't happening.

Jason: You're there for good, huh?

Saxs: Well, here's the thing. So,

Jason: okay.

Saxs: Well, maybe we should just talk about BTA cuz this where this is going.

Jason: Well, I mean, listen, you move houses. Move houses. You could have a little internet issue. It's okay. Well, I mean, I'd rather have an internet issue and keep 100% of my money than

Saxs: 5%

Jason: lose 5% plus 13.3 per year. And it's not going to be a onetime tax. That's the biggest lie.

Saxs: It's 5% now, 5% later, 10% after that.

Jason: Yeah.

Saxs: You know, it'll be an exit tax.

Jason: Yeah.

Saxs: They're coming for all of it.

Jason: Yeah.

Saxs: So, the internet can get fixed. The internet, let's put this way. My internet can get fixed a lot more easily than California can.

Freeberg: What are the 10 states that constitutionally ban asset taxes?

Saxs: Yeah. So, it's direct and implicit in those states constitutions or they have an amendment to the constitution that makes it um direct or implicit that you can't do a wealth tax or an asset section.

Freeberg: Which are they? Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas.

Saxs: According to Grock, only Texas explicitly bans wealth taxes.

Freeberg: Yes, that is correct. But because of some of the other state constitutions, it's implicit. So Texas has in their constitution an a prohibition on quote tax on wealth or net worth. Washington has a uniformity clause which treats income as property which bans non-uniform rates. Florida's constitution bans any sort of personal tax. Pennsylvania has a strict uniformity clause which would make it impossible to have graduated tax rates or distinguished tax rates amongst populations. Illinois has a strict constitutional mandate for a flat non-graduated tax rate. So you cannot do uh a separation. Um and then asset seizure is referred to as a civil asset forfeite which is a separate legal issue but implies in states like New Mexico, Nebraska, and North Carolina, you cannot actually have an asset taken from you by the state. So there there's a bunch of states that this would be constitutionally protected against.

Jason: Freeberg, has your mind changed since last week about whether this is going to make the ballot?

Freeberg: I I don't think it's going to make the ballot. I mean, look, I I think it's not I'm not saying 100%. I'm saying slight overweight that it's not going to get there.

Jason: So nothing has changed in your perspective.

Freeberg: I think we're going through the rolling wakeup process right now, which is people are waking up to the fact that the asset seizure tax is an elimination of private property rights. that fundamentally what you're saying and I wrote this in my tweet that private property now becomes public property because as soon as you give the government the right to collect your post tax assets through a legislative vote, you are basically saying that you no longer have private property because at any point in the future the government can vote to say I'm going to take your private property which is different than an income tax which is when you earn something that you didn't have before and they take a percentage of your earnings of your income. The statement now is after you've made your income, it's now your private property. They can come and take it. And so that is a distinction that has never existed in the United States. And I will make the retort right now to property tax because people always say to me, what about property tax? A property tax is a service fee on a particular specific asset. The money that is collected provides services for that asset to make it more valuable. So you get roads, infrastructure, policing, fire, schools, all the stuff that comes with property tax, make that asset more, and you have the option at any point you want to sell that property and stop paying that property tax. You have the option at any point to downgrade your property and get a cheaper property and pay it lower. But and here's the other important point about property tax. It's uniform. Uniform means that everyone pays the same percentage, the same property tax rate in a county. This asset seizure tax that's being proposed is a demographic tax, meaning that the state or the legislature defines a specific group of individuals. In this case, they're saying anyone with a net worth over a billion dollars and then they can go and take assets from only that group. That is nonuniform taxation. It means that for the first time we're saying based on the demographics of a person meaning whatever you want to use to define that person in this case their wealth you are going to be treated differently and that is different than an income tax because remember when you have graduated income tax rates and you say high earners t get tax more what you're taxing is the earnings not the individual. You're not looking through to the individual to determine whether or not they're wealthy. All you're doing is looking at the independent earnings amount that's coming in. And so a uniformity clause is supposed to protect people from being demographically discriminated against. And you may roll your hand and be like, "Oh, who cares about the billionaires? Eat the rich." That's great. But fundamentally, you're giving the government, the legislature, the ability to in the future take any demographic definition they want and go in and take any percentage they want of after tax property from you. That is why this is so troubling. And we can harp all day long about eat the rich and obviously this group is is biased, but the general population should be very much aware of the fact that as soon as you give a legislature the ability to discriminate a group and take whatever% they want. Yeah.

Jason: You've se and and it's over. You've you're now what you've done is you've made all private property public property because the government is simply giving you permission every year to keep your stuff

Saxs: and the government shouldn't even know. It's like they're they're coming onto your ranch and calculating how many tractors you got. How you got an old Corvette? How much is that worth? What's what's your old roadster worth? Jewelry worth.

All: How much moose is worth?

Jason: Moose is Yeah, they're going to take 5% of moose.

Freeberg: Very valuable thorough bread there.

Saxs: Absolutely is. There'll be a new job category. Tax appraiser.

Jason: Tax appraisers. And then you don't know whether the

Saxs: knocking on your door. I'm here to walk around your ranch and calculate everything. I mean,

Freeberg: and it doesn't solve the geometric debt problem, right? We have a problem where every year if we keep funding things with a deficit in California we're looking at a 30 billion a year deficit. We've got 500 billion of debt and we have a nearly 1 trillion dollar pension obligation that is not funded.

Jason: Yes,

Freeberg: that money is going to come from somewhere or it is not going to get paid. It is more likely that they're going to do everything they possibly can to get that money from somewhere rather than not pay it. And the same is and the same is true for all pension obligations across the country. Illinois has a big problem like this as well.

Saxs: Well, can I can I take the other side of that bet that bet you mentioned about it not getting on the ballot,

Jason: please? Yeah, go for it.

Saxs: Well, I I've never understood why this wouldn't get on the ballot. And I've never understood why once it's on the ballot, it wouldn't pass, which is why I left. So, let's take the first one of these. In terms of it getting on the ballot, you only need about 8 million bucks to collect the signatures. 850,000 signatures. It's not that many in California. There's definitely millions of people in California who would love to stick it to billionaires. So, they're going to gather the signatures that SEIU has the money. The only way that it wouldn't therefore make the ballot is if Gavin Newsome and the political machine bribe the SEIU with enough political benefits that they'll withdraw it. But what the SEIU is asking for is whatever it is, the $30 billion. And I don't know if Gavin Newsome has that much money laying around somewhere that he can just give them. Furthermore, if you're the guy running the SEIU, I understand his name is Dave Rean.

Jason: Rean. Dave Rean,

Saxs: you got to be looking at what's happening on X right now and you got to be gleeful. You got all these billionaires are panic tweeting all day long.

Jason: It's not all day long. I tweet in the morning from the bathroom.

Saxs: Well, we're all doing it.

Jason: Morning constitutional. I went on a base tweeting spree this morning. So if you're if you're this guy Rean, you're like, "Oh my god, look how much leverage I've got." You know, twist a pig's ear, watch him squeal. He's twisted these billionaires ears, and they're all squealing.

Saxs: So why wouldn't you increase your leverage by spending the $8 million, put it on the ballot, and then negotiate with

Jason: Was that a Was that a deliverance reference? I hope not.

Saxs: No, it's just an expression. Hey man,

Jason: I don't know why your mind's going to deliverance.

Saxs: Squeal louder.

Jason: You need that deliverance on the brain.

Saxs: I maybe I do.

Chamath: Sax, I'll tell you why. So, I've obviously been a believer I've been a believer in the long cycle and I've said this for a long time. We are going to end up in either a socialist or some sort of fascist. Either way, it's a tyrannical system to get us out of the death spiral that we've been in for some time. So, that is true. But, I still want to retain my sense of individual agency. And I do think that those of us who are in California who actually care should retain some sense of agency rather than suspend our um our ability to have an influence in the outcome here. I think we need to speak openly and honestly about where this leads to. Let people hear it. Let the people in California decide. And frankly, if we've done our job, we've spoken loudly, we've spoken clearly, we've re revealed to people where a private property seizure tax leads to for everyone in this country and the deletion of private property rights in this country and they still sign up to it,

Chamath: then I'm out.

Jason: Yeah, I get it. And

All: if it was a centillionaire tax, she would have been out.

Saxs: I agree that we should fight it. I'm not being fatalistic. I don't think the outcome is predetermined, but I don't understand why it wouldn't get on the ballot because that that has nothing to do with how persuasive you and the opponents of BTA are. It's just about whether SEIU, UHW will spend the requisite amount of money, 8 million, 10 million, 12 million, whatever, to gather the signatures. And I mean, we've heard they have the money, right? So why wouldn't they? It only increases their leverage to demand more concessions.

Jason: They have $14 million to gather the signatures, which the estimate was they'll need somewhere between five and 15. So, they have the cash they need to gather the signatures.

Chamath: It's a good bet.

Jason: And they have roughly $10 million to run an ad campaign. And their estimate is they need between $50 and $100 million to run an ad campaign.

Chamath: Sounds like a good the next step will be that they'll try and get this thing signed up. Now, the polling data, it shows that there's room for influence sack. So, I do think that if people can understand where this is headed and look, if America wants to sign up to this, Godspeed, man, like that's where America's going to end up in the socialist death spiral loophole. Like, good luck. Have a good time. I'm going to Terminus to start the foundation. I don't know where the hell that is, but I'm out.

All: You're out.

Chamath: I'm out.

Saxs: And in the meantime, all we can do is speak truth to it and try and shine light on it and see where it goes.

Jason: Hey, maybe 51st State Greenland. Maybe we'll just do the first state.

Saxs: Look, I'm not saying it's going to pass, although I do think it's probably slightly more likely than not to pass once it's on the ballot. I just don't understand why it's not going to be on the ballot. And once it makes the ballot in, let's say, April,

Saxs: I think there's going to be a big freak out and rush for the exits because there's a lot of people

Jason: who, you know, this is my theory is I'm going to beat the end of the park.

Freeberg: It's not people don't realize this. It's not billionaires. I've received dozens of texts, emails, calls from people, founders, business leaders, CEOs that are out

Freeberg: if in April this thing ends up on the ballot because they're like writings on the wall. If no politicians in California are willing to stand up and talk about private property rights and no one's willing to say like this leads to a death spiral for the state and potentially for the country and no one's going to say that, then it's only a matter of time before this happens and it's only a matter of time before it hits me.

Jason: And so everyone is looking for a place.

Saxs: Let me let me give you a data point on that. Um there are other unions who weren't part of this ballot initiative who are preparing similar ones for 2028 and those ballot initiatives are going to be more bulletproof. They're going to be better lawyered. All that kind of stuff. More likely to survive constitutional challenges. The only reason why there is political opposition I believe to the BTA is because it was done by only one union. the SEIU uh this guy did it on his own and the loot all the proceeds from this confiscation would go almost all of it would go just to this one union or its causes. So they didn't cut in the other unions on the loot. They didn't wet the other unions beaks.

Saxs: As a result of that, the other unions are actually against it. And this is why Newsome and the other politicians feel relatively unconstrained in saying they're opposed to it. And that's why I think that if we defeat this in 26, it doesn't mean it's dead for good. It just means it's going to come back in a new form in 28, but with much more broad-based union support, all the unions are going to do it together. So, I just think this is inevitable. And I think that, you know, for all the founders and whether you're pre-exit, postexit, or on your way to an exit,

Saxs: my advice would be that to quote Maya Angelou, when a state shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Saxs: This is the direction of travel in California. And whether it's SEIU or whatever they do, this is where it's going.

Freeberg: They'd love to see something. Perhaps you said something that resonated with me, which is the next versions of this will be better lawyered and more bulletproof. I've had a team of people looking at this. The thing that is the biggest weakness here is looking at the fact that this is a wholly new tax that is applied retroactively. And when you look at the Supreme Court at the federal level, the case law on this, this is the strongest challenge that people will have and this is where there is a prepoundonderance of evidence in the favor of people saying that this is unjust and this is a taking and being able to use the Supreme Court to bat this back. Now, that'll take 5 and 10 years to litigate because it'll be there drawing itself through the courts forever. But when you look at the fact that that will be the angle of attack that people will take if this passes, I 100% agree with you Saxs. If this union were smart enough, what they would have done is say this is going to start Jan7. It probably would make the ballot. It probably would pass and they would get all the loot and it would be very difficult to legally challenge this thing. It was a huge miscalculation by that union. But in 28 or 30 or 32, this will rear its ugly head. It will be better architected and there will be no way around it. And at that point, why create an artificial line at one with nine zeros after it? Why?

Saxs: Why? And by the way, stupid go to 100 million. Get everybody.

Jason: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's move that number up a little bit. Let's get to Let's get it to 250. And if what we're saying is right, then why would it not happen at a national level?

Saxs: Of course it will. Yes. They're going to start chasing you around the country. It's just

Freeberg: Well, because I'll tell you why. Because we still have plenty of conservatives in the rest of the country. California is screwed. But we got to start stacking sandbags around the rest of the states. Freeberg, you said something that I really liked in your post, which is it begs the question, what will happen when California goes BK and then they go to the feds and it doesn't actually matter who is in charge at that time. But let's think about it. If Trump were in charge for a second, California knocks and says, "Hey, I need you to bail us out." the deal that California would need to do with the president for that to even be palatable so that he could build a coalition of Republicans around it. Man, California will go through tremendous pain

Jason: measures,

Freeberg: but then go through the other side. So now imagine AOC's president, AOCC's president.

Freeberg: So she says, I got to do this and then when it goes to Congress, how does this actually happen? This is again where I think Sax is right. As long as there is a 4951 kind of a balance, I don't think anything can really happen without meaningfully deep austerity in California.

Jason: I think there's a way out for

Freeberg: now if the filibuster's gone by that time.

Jason: Yeah.

Freeberg: And it's simple majority and then if there's a Democrat in the oval plus a Democratic Congress. Y

Saxs: David, you're right because that is the one shot on goal that they have a two-year window to run that play at the federal level and they will be able to get it done.

Freeberg: Now ask yourself the question, what happens to the citizens of Florida, the citizens of Texas and the citizens of North Dakota and the citizens of all these states that pay federal taxes have not had this problem in their state and they're basically paying Alaska. Alaska has a surplus. Why would all those citizens and this is where the union starts to unravel and that's where I get very concerned about where this leads. As soon as you allow this asset seizure tax to pass even on a state level, the economic ramifications or on a national level, the economic ramifications are inevitable that some states are going to have to bail out other states and that's where things get very ugly.

Jason: The bill will come to at some point. There's a super easy out here for the Democrats or people who are supporting this. Just go after fraud first, taxes second. That's got to be the mantra going forward. We're going to eliminate fraud and waste and then we'll have a discussion about taxes. That's the only way for them to find an escape hatch here.

Saxs: Okay. We have the moderates. You're Yeah. I mean, like, but just just some interesting stats here. So, California collects roughly double per capita what Texas and Florida do. So, California collects about $10,319 per taxpayer, whereas Texas 5,469. Florida 4,914. So, there's not an issue here of California not collecting enough taxes. The issue is all on the spending. And on that front, the California budget has doubled over the past decade while the population stayed flat. And in fact,

Jason: and services got worse. Service services got worse. Test scores got worse. Crime prevention and enforcement got worse.

Saxs: Where's it going?

Jason: They let convicts out of jails. Everything's gotten worse.

Chamath: Where's the money going, Sachs? Say the word.

Saxs: It's going to these government worker unions who have accumulated too much political power. Look, you go all the way back to FDR and he was opposed to even though he was a for unions. He was opposed to government workers unions because he thought they would accumulate too much political power and they elect the politicians and then the politicians are the ones paying them. So they just end up extracting more and more and more iteratively with every election cycle.

Freeberg: It's the same as an antitrust monopoly in a corporation. It's the same ultimate dynamics as having a monopoly in private industry and corporations. It basically gives you a monopoly on political power and it gives you the ability to monopolize assets. And that's effectively where we are now. They're at the point where one union is saying, "I'm going to take the assets, hundred billion dollars of assets from a small minority of people in the state."

Saxs: The reality is that a lot of it is the pension obligations. You can work for the state for 20 years, retire in your 40s,

Jason: and you basically what you get like 90% of your your wage for the rest of your life. It doesn't work. It doesn't pencil out. It's got to end.

Saxs: They use your last year's W2. So, you stuff it with overtime, your last year, and you end up retiring with like 150% of your annual salary for life. It doesn't even apply to your spouse, too.

Freeberg: This was the promise that was given in order to get the votes that have gotten us to the point we're at today. Because that is how the unions operate, right? It is a system that drives political influence by making these sorts of benefits law and brings them to bear.

Jason: If the average retirement age is 50 and your lifespan is 80, like this is way this is not how it was intended. People used to get these at 60 and they would die at 68. It was like

Saxs: for the state at 22 and you can retire at 42. Actually, what a lot of people do is they'll go then take a second government job and they'll stack a second pension. But yeah, you could retire at 42 if you if you stuff it with over. Yeah,

Jason: you can stuff it with overtime and and I think it applies to your spouse as well. Just fact check me on that. But

Saxs: I know I'm aware of it in New York where a little bit of this stuffing on the margins do does occur. I've heard

Jason: I'm not against police officers and teachers and and people getting reasonable.

Chamath: You you need to do superanuation funds. You have to have people buying into the market over time. And the government shouldn't be managing this. It's just the government is terrible at whatever it does and there's too much for them to do. Let it stand alone. Take it out. Carve it out. You're you're forced to put 12% into this or your employer puts a little bit into it and then we'd have a very happy society. More participation in the market. It would solve so many problems. Okay. I just want to hit one last topic.

Chamath: Congratulations to Greenland on uh accepting a very generous offer from President Trump. We welcome you as the 51st state. Maybe that'll be happening any day now. US officials met with reps from Denmark and Greenland at the White House on Wednesday to discuss how the US could take control of Greenland. This has been something Trump's been talking about for years. And remember my rule number one of President Trump. He says a lot of things. One way or another, we're going to get it March 4th, 2025. I need it for psychological reasons to actually own it. 2021. He said that we're going to do something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way. January 9th, 2026. Denmark doesn't seem to want to play ball. They say they have a fun fundamental disagreement about this. That being said, there's only 50,000 people there and it's a Poly Market's got it at 17% chance that we acquire it, which is significant as a starting point. 50,000 people getting a half million or a million dollars each would probably be a pretty good deal. It's a very strategic piece of land. If you look at what's happening with the ice caps melting sacks and Russia positioning a lot of their ships up in the Arctic, there's a pretty clean shot going past Greenland to the northeast of America. So maybe you could just talk about why this is and again you're not speaking for the administration and it's not your lane but why is Greenland so important.

Saxs: Well it is becoming more significant from a national security standpoint as those Arctic ISIS melt and you have new shipping lanes that have opened up. So it is important on on that dimension. But look, American politicians have wanted to acquire Greenland for a long time. The great Secretary of State William Seard wanted to acquire it. He acquired Alaska. He wanted to get Greenland to was unable to make that deal. But FDR and Truman both were interested in acquiring Greenland. It didn't work out obviously. So this is an old idea that's new again thanks to President Trump. I think he makes a great point. Why does it belong to the Danes? You know, it's a small country in Europe. It's not part of North America. And I think if we can acquire it for national security reasons and resource reasons, we should. And I think the odds of him pulling this off are much greater than 17%. Chimath or Fberg, you have any thoughts on the 51st state?

Freeberg: I don't know anything about it.

Jason: Well, they don't have to become a state to be clear. No, they can become

Saxs: Yeah. I mean, territory, whatever it is. Yeah. Could be like a country club, whatever. It's it's important that we get get memberships.

Saxs: This is a huge piece of real estate in the Western Hemisphere. It doesn't really make a ton of sense for Denmark to own it.

Saxs: It makes a lot more sense for it to be part of the US. And

Saxs: we're willing to pay for it. And I think that we can make them an offer that they can't refuse.

Jason: Absolutely. And it has

Saxs: We're gonna send Luca Brazie over there.

Jason: I thought Luca Brazzy

Jason: off. It's got a lot of railroads minerals. There's a lot of oil offshore. Their big export now is is fish obviously, but this has lots of potential, Freeberg, in terms of the resources. And um yeah, why not get it done? Trump loves real estate. We got him for another three years. I say let President Trump cook and if he wants to buy some other land, I'm here for it. I love building the empire. This is my favorite Trump.

Chamath: Frag, you love this Trump or not.

Freeberg: The old adage is there's always a deal. There's always a price

Chamath: except when you're negotiating with the government. So, I don't know how that's going to go. My understanding, my experience is that they do not want a deal. They're not interested. There's a whole bunch of national pride associated with that. You can't break national pride as we know as patriots of America. It is very hard to fight national pride. I don't know if the economics are really going to play out, but security guarantees, maybe other benefits for the the great kingdom of Denmark. There could be a strong alliance and partnership for the United States.

Saxs: I think it could be important for the US to have a new frontier. You know, maybe what we can do is send all these progressive socialists

Saxs: off to Greenland to tame this new frontier.

Jason: I want to go send Mandami there and they get that.

Saxs: We need that. We need that spirit of the frontier of of cowboys, of exploration.

Jason: Yes. That Mandami. He seems like a very resilient, gritty guy. He'll come with his whole crew, the socialist Roana. Let him set up there. Let's see what

Chamath: the idea of having what's called a freedom province or freedom state or freedom city,

Jason: economic free zone. Yeah.

Chamath: Yeah. And and I do think if we if we are looking down the barrel of socialism in the United States, which I think socially leads to a destruction of individual liberties and a degradation of the social fabric in America, before that happens, it's important that those who are on the other side and before they get overwhelmed with the votes and uh the elected officials that will fight against them, before this all happens, it's important to think about carving out illegal territory And that legal territory should allow for the resurrection of the great American Union, of the great American spirit. And we should find a place within our sphere of influence before we get overwhelmed to set up

Saxs: Texas, dude. It's called Texas. Remember the Alamo. We're making our last stand here.

Jason: Absolutely. The 50 calibers are up on the ranch. I think it would be helpful to get something that's that's federally set up, Sachs, that you could have like untouchable legislation that says this is not to be touched, this is pioneering, whatever it is.

Saxs: Join the militia. We got a militia. And maybe Greenland is the place, but it's something that feels it's got to be something that feels difficult, something that feels open, something that feels a little bit untouched, and it's regionally encased with a set of legislated

Saxs: things like Guam or Puerto Rico or something where you set set it up and you're like, look, this is untouchable. It takes a a big action to change it. Something where people can have protection against the uh the socialist milu that's on the way. You know, it is kind of interesting as I remember from my high school history. I think the frontier was officially over at by 1910. I think that was meaning every longitude basically had been fully exploritude and longitude had been sort of settled. And that is when the progressive era kind of began. And I do kind of wonder whether the frontier was this like escape valve for pressure that builds up, you know, resentments that build up in the economy. People could always just go west and become pioneers and find new territory.

Jason: That's right.

Saxs: And in a way, that's what America was for Europe, right? I mean, Europe was sort of this overcrowded place. it was uh oppressive and people just left that they could opt out by going to America and settling over in what would become the United States and I kind of wonder whether maybe we need something like that again

Jason: and by the way all the discontents so they don't become democratic socialist of America

Saxs: and for a while the digital frontier became that escape valve but now that's being shut off and it's being closed down and the place where it's been run from is being subjugated to the socialist. So the question is what's next? I think it's a very good question.

Chamath: Well, the problem is that the the socialists, they're not explorers. They're not pioneers. They don't create anything. They're not builders. What they are is they're really good at hijacking existing institutions.

Jason: Mhm.

Chamath: And that's what they do is they take things that were created by great people and they subvert them and they seize control. And that's what they're going for is total control. first in California and then in Washington. But I do wonder whether the existence of some sort of release valve might defer that day, right? Because you get less pressure building up in the system.

Jason: Yeah.

All: All right. Another amazing episode and just want to give a shout out. Schmoff did an amazing interview with my guy Howard Lutnik.

Chamath: That was fun, huh? Yet,

All: that was awesome. He was awesome.

Jason: Yeah, I'm really impressed by him. And Freeberg on a bit of a heater here today. We dropped an incredible interview with FDA Commissioner Marty Marie. Am I pronouncing correctly?

Freeberg: Carrie McCary. Great job there. And also you're you got to hang out with your childhood hero. We grew up on Howard Stern on the East Coast, but you grew up with Adam Corolla and you got to interview him. You were fanboy fanirling a little bit there at the start, weren't you?

Jason: Well, it was great to I'd never met him, so it was great to interview him. I mean, he has a lot of interesting ideas. I got a lot of texts about his uh coined term gynofascism which I think some people

Freeberg: explain to the audience what watch the interview watch the interview we don't want to get he was great you had to see the start of this interview Javon Freeberg's like Mr. Carella I used to watch you and Dr. Drew uh talking on Loveline and it really was formative in my years as a broadcaster and now I too am a broadcaster. It was really cute. It was really cute.

Jason: I never said I'm a broadcaster. I would never.

Freeberg: You were like

Jason: I would never I would never degrade myself like that, Jacob.

Freeberg: I actually am doing random acts of broadcasting. The sun never stops on the All-In Empire.

Jason: And I also did a a fun CES interview with the CEO of McKenzie, Bob Sternfells. and uh Heymont from General Catalyst and uh that's up on the feed. So four four 1 2 3 four interview shows waiting for you in your feed and to the mainstream media trying to keep up with this. GFY gfy good for you have fun trying

All: you guys believe that Jake has been invited to Davos.

Freeberg: I can't wait to see this.

Jason: I'm bringing my acoustic I'm going to tear IT UP. WE'RE GOING to have fun. Did you guys see me rage bait Twitter two days ago?

All: What did you say?

Freeberg: No. What did you do?

Jason: I put this thing where

All: you showed your legs.

Jason: No. You remember when we did the interview at the end summit where Tulssey talked about the Obama documents?

All: Yeah.

Jason: Well, this guy did a rant. I thought the rant was great, but I just retweeted it and people lost their mind. Basically, he was calling for Obama's arrest.

All: God.

Freeberg: Oh gosh.

Jason: I said very casually, gosh, this is a really under reportported story.

Saxs: Oh, I saw that one. to be.

Jason: I'm wondering who that guy was, though. I'm like,

All: did Nap make you take it down?

Jason: No, it's still up there. Still up there.

Freeberg: Wait, who is who is that streamer?

Jason: I don't know who he is.

Freeberg: Saying Obama.

Jason: Yeah, I don't

All: I think he's he's said he met

Freeberg: Did you guys watch Nick Shirley's new video?

Jason: Oh, no.

Freeberg: He goes looking for himself.

Chamath: Check this out.

Freeberg: There's these transportation companies. They get $10 million a day in Minnesota.

Chamath: A day. A day for non-emergency medical transportation. So the state will pay if you transport someone that's autistic to Target to get them groceries 50 bucks a ride. And there's a website where the transportation company gets to log into the website and they're registered as one of the transportation companies and they're like, I took someone from this place to Target. and you get and you fill out all these forms and then you get a check immediately

Freeberg: on the it's a trust system.

Chamath: They never investigate. They don't audit. They don't check. Nothing. So Nick Shirley starts going around looking for the transportation companies and it's like a liquor store. He's like, "Where's the where's the transportation company?" Liquor store guys like there's no transportation here. It's like a you know a burrito place like a deli. Like all of these places are folks transportation companies. tens of millions of dollars a week just being given out. And by the way, this is not a race thing. It does no one any good to cast this as being a Somali thing. And that I think is what's getting everyone in trouble. The fact and it's and by the way, it's what shuts off a lot of people to actually being able to look at the fraud. And it's not about the Somali people. It's about the fact that fraud is allowed by the government. And it's about the fact that the government either is implicit or complicit in this fraud. And I think that that's what people need to pay attention to and and ignore all of the rattings about what community or what group or who's doing it and just focus on the fact that the government lets this happen. If you think about the state of California spending $350 billion a year and you ask yourself the question, are those government agencies and the agents in those agencies doing their job of making sure that there's no fraud taking place? There is no way anyone's going to raise their hand and say yes. They're great fiduciaries of taxpayer money. And that's what we should all be paying attention to and get out of the political divide on all this and the racism and all the and focus on the fact that the government does this

All: All right, everybody. Another amazing allin episodes. Thanks. Thank you for tuning in.

Jason: Like, oh, by the way, guys, we hit a million subs on uh YouTube. They sent me a gorgeous plaque. I'm putting it up in my office. It's amazing. And

All: at the million plaque, it's it's great. The all the team autographed it and wrote a really nice note. Yeah. Can I say something?

Jason: Yeah. You're welcome.

All: You're welcome. Jamal would like to say you're welcome.

Jason: You're welcome. All right. See you at Davos. Kumbaya Davos. We'll see you there.

All: We'll let your winners ride.

Jason: Rainman David.

All: We open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Besties are gone.

Jason: That is my dog taking your driveways.

All: Oh man, my attacher will meet the place.

Jason: We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all just useless. It's like this like sexual tension that we just need to release somehow.

Jason: Wet your wet your feet. We need to get merch. I'm going all in. I'm going all in.