Gilbert Cruz: I'm Gilbert Cruz, editor of the New York Times Book Review, and this is the Book Review Podcast. Bridgetgerton, one of the biggest hits in Netflix history, is back for another season based on the series of hit romance novels set in early 1800s England and revolving around the love lives of the Titular family. Part one of the show's fourth season debuted a few weeks ago. The final four episodes are going to debut on the streaming platform at the end of February. Joining me on this week's episode is Julia Quinn, the person who started this all, author of the books from which the show is adapted. Her Bridgetgerton series kicked off in the year 2000 with The Duke and I. Julia, welcome to the book review podcast.

Julia Quinn: Thank you for having me. This is a dream come true.

Gilbert Cruz: I feel the same way. Thanks for being here. Our conversation is going to publish over Valentine's Day weekend. So, it actually feels incredibly appropriate to be speaking with you. How do you feel about this holiday as someone whose job it is to write about romance?

Julia Quinn: I think it's a nice holiday, but I do remember very distinctly the first Valentine's Day I had where I was part of a couple and and thinking just like finally. And so I get it what it's like for everyone else. So it it is kind of a cruel holiday because we're not all part of couples. And so I really love that we now have this Valentine's Day thing, too. I don't know what there is for the guys, but

Gilbert Cruz: There's nothing.

Julia Quinn: I'm sorry. My husband, I think, is more romantic than I am in terms of really good gestures and gifts and stuff. So, so Valentine's Day has been very, very good to me.

Gilbert Cruz: You know, you're putting all your romantic flourishes in your work. And so, he's like, "Don't worry, honey. I got it."

Julia Quinn: Yes. Yes.

Gilbert Cruz: We're talking because, as I said, there is a new season of Bridgetgerton, this TV phenomenon. It's a big thing for everyone who watches the show, but I also have to imagine it's a it's a big thing for you. And and I'm curious what it's like for you when a new season drops. They basically come out every two years. And I'm wondering, do you have to like gear up every time? Like, okay, a new season's coming. And now, as the author of these books, I have responsibilities if you do or I have to be back in the public eye or there are certain things I have to do. Talk to me about what are the feelings that are wrapped up in the swelling up of interest every couple years.

Julia Quinn: Well, to be completely frank, Bridgetton has become such a juggernaut that the yes, the interest does swell up every couple years, but it never actually disappears, which as as the author of the books is wonderful. It's exhausting because you are doing so much more travel. You're doing PR stuff. I I feel like it's not as much as it was at the beginning, but it's also so exciting that the exhaustion doesn't really matter. They had the premiere in Paris this year and it was actually really funny because well, this is really funny, too. I get loop looped in with talent. So, when they refer to talent, it's all the actors and me, which is really

Gilbert Cruz: That's incredible.

Julia Quinn: Yeah, it's incredible. I'm like, I'm the talent. Oh my gosh. And and I don't do all the same things they do, but I just under that header. So all the talent were talking and we were like, "Does anybody know why we're in Paris?" Nobody actually did. Nobody could pinpoint why they had us do the premier in Paris, but no one was complaining. We're all just going, "But it's great. It's like, where will they send us next time?" So it's just it's surreal and wonderful because I certainly never thought I was going to be getting flown to Paris for a red carpet premiere.

Gilbert Cruz: Do you have to walk the red carpet?

Julia Quinn: You do. And I think it was actually red this year. It see I remember season two of Bridgetton. It was green. We had a green carpet and they're just they're all they're all a little different. You know that you have this press line you go through where everybody's like look this way, look this way, look this way and and they have to teach you how to like stand and pose. I'm going like this is nuts.

Gilbert Cruz: So what what is involved in learning the step and repeat?

Julia Quinn: Oh the step and repeat. See I couldn't even remember the name. There wasn't much involved. They just said this is step and repeat and this is what you do. And I I still am not remotely an expert because when you get out there, all the actors know exactly how to stand and they all have this this expression which is a little bit serious and they're and they they never show teeth and I'm out there like,

Gilbert Cruz: "Hey, like grinning, look at me, I'm smiling." And

Julia Quinn: I always, not that I've fantasized about this, but I always thought if I ever had to walk on a red carpet, it really would be the face, the the like the teeth thing. It's like, how big am I smiling? Is it a grin? Is it a smise? Is it a smirk? What is the

Julia Quinn: There's all that and you're also thinking to yourself, I need to like posture, posture, stand up straight, stand up straight because I don't always have great posture and so there's a lot going through your head and you feel a little bit imposterike because that's just not where the writers usually are.

Gilbert Cruz: Yeah.

Julia Quinn: But it's it's fun and it's crazy. And the thing about Bridgetton as a show and I hope as books as well is that they're really about joy. And it's a really joyful work and it's all about finding love and and don't get me wrong, I'm there for all the edgy shows. I like stuff like that, but Bridgetton I think was very different in that it does that. So it just it's a very happy phenomenon and so it just

Gilbert Cruz: It's wonderful. I want to take you all the way back to the the turn of the century, which is a weird thing to say, a weird phrase to use, I know, for people who are still alive, but when that first Bridgetgerton book, The Duke and I, was published, you had already put out six, seven books.

Julia Quinn: Mhm. This is my eighth novel.

Gilbert Cruz: It was your eighth novel. What were your expectations for that first Bridgetgerton book? What what did you think it was going to be, the series, or did you know it was going to be a series? And and having published several books already, what did you think this this is this has to succeed or this needs to succeed at a certain level? How did you go into it?

Julia Quinn: So, the thing about being a writer of genre fiction, especially then when I was coming up through the ranks, is that there were no overnight successes. You you had to build your career the oldfashioned way which is starting out at the bottom of the list and hoping that with every book you add on a few more reader you add on more readers than you lose and just keep slowly growing your print run and becoming more and more popular and that's what I was doing slow but steady and so by the time I got to the first Bridgetgerton book I was not a lead author this was not a main title coming out from my publishing house I wasn't at the bottom it was they call it mid list but they call the bottom mid list also so who

Gilbert Cruz: It's too specific.

Julia Quinn: I I know we're getting into the weeds of publishing terms right now, but I thought it was going to do what I had been trying to do all along, which is do a little better than the last one. And that's that's how you built a career. That's that's really how I have built my career. And so, I wanted to do a little better than the last one. The last one had been the first time I'd hit a national bestseller list. I think I'd hit the USA Today list at like 126 or something. I was thrilled. And so this one, you know, wanted to do a little better and it did, but it didn't hit the New York Times list. It didn't do anything amazing, but within my field of romance novels where my little core group of people were watching, it was a bump and it was like a visible noticeable bump. And I think it was in large part because of Lady Whistledown because at the end of the book, I don't say who she is. So you'd have these people going, "What?" Because the thing about romance novels is that they have to end with happy ending. And I'm always careful to tell people this is no more formulaic than any other type of genre fiction because think if you read say a Hercule Puero mystery and at the end he just slaps his forehead and says that's a stumper.

Gilbert Cruz: You would be really upset.

Julia Quinn: Yeah. Cuz if you read a mystery you expect a dead body at the beginning and it to be the murder to be solved at the end. Well, if you read a romance you expect two people to either meet or rem at the beginning and to have a happy ending at the end. It's just and and everything in between is open, but you have these parameters.

Julia Quinn: And so, Lady Whistledown is that was a string that did not get tied up at the end. I just left that one hanging, which you didn't see very much of. Even though like romance was filled with trilogies where it was about three brothers or three best friends, the each one was pretty wrapped up. And so, at the end, people like, "What? She didn't say anything?" So, it kind of got a bit more buzz. But certainly, I never thought it was going to get picked up for television. I mean, nobody adapted romance novels.

Gilbert Cruz: Did you have a sense how many books it would stretch out to in the end or did you have a hope at least?

Julia Quinn: Well, actually, I started out thinking I was going to write three mostly because again, romance is full of trilogies. It's just that's sort of what we do. And I' done I'd done a trilogy and then I'd done I think two sets of two and I thought, okay, I'll do another trilogy. And I had Daphne and then the the most filled out characters, secondary characters in the book were Anthony and Colin. So I thought, "Okay, I'll I'll do that." And then my editor actually said, "Maybe just do two books because I feel like with trilogies often you have the first character who everybody's excited about and then you save the really enigmatic one for last and then the second one's

Gilbert Cruz: Yeah.

Julia Quinn: And I said, "Well, I really have these three characters I'd like to do." So she said, "All right, okay." And so I started working on Anony's book because of course you know I'm working on it before the Duke and I comes out. And then that started taking off. And then by the time it was time for me to start the the third book, I said, "I feel like this is becoming a little more popular than we expected. Maybe maybe I should do a book for Benedict." Cuz I hadn't been planning to. And she said, "Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Now we're thinking maybe four books." And then by the time I signed my next contract, it specifically said these need to be Bridgetgerton books.

Julia Quinn: But I had never planned to do eight. I I don't even remember why I made eight kids. I just I wanted her to have a big family. And somehow that's how many kids there were. And if I had planned on eight, I I would have plotted things out better. I really there were a number of places where I really wrote myself into a corner where I was like, "Oh gosh, what am I going to do now?"

Gilbert Cruz: When did you write yourself into a corner? There are three books in the series which take place pretty much at the same time.

Julia Quinn: That was not fun. So, I would have done that a little differently. And then also, I realized I was going to have three 28-year-old spinsters in a row. And I thought, "Oh gosh." I mean, you can do different things, but so then in in the third, I think it was the third book, I just put in there like, "Oh, poor Francesca got married and then was widowed." And then I put her aside and then eventually I got to Franchesca's book and was thought, "Oh, I need to figure out what happened." I just put that in there so I would have a different setup. Really not thinking to myself, eventually you're going to have to figure this out. And and eventually I did.

Gilbert Cruz: You're solving a short-term problem, but putting a long-term bomb out there that you have to diffuse.

Julia Quinn: Yes. And I I'm fairly certain I'm not the only author who does that.

Gilbert Cruz: I'm sure you said you you can't remember why the family had eight kids. Was there an appeal though in in the thinking about this family as a unit and just in having an almost absurd number of children that you're spinning stories out for?

Julia Quinn: I definitely wanted a big family cuz I wanted the big family dynamic and I think that's something people love about the Bridgettons and I think it's something that the show does incredibly well is showing that sense of family. They bicker. They absolutely bicker and they absolutely feel like a family. So, so I wanted a big family and why eight I really there are actually a lot of things I don't remember why I did and people ask me questions about it and I'll have to say you know it's a really long time ago. I don't I've written a lot of words in my career and I don't remember every one of them.

Gilbert Cruz: Had you been a big reader of romance novels? Who did you read? How were you introduced to the genre?

Julia Quinn: So my earliest memory of it is actually reading an abridged romance novel I think by Kathleen Woodwis who basically invented the modern romance novel. She had a book that came out in 1972 called The Flame and the Flower.

Julia Quinn: It was many pages long. It was the one of these epic over-the-top very sort of descriptive long it's it's quite different than what we have now, but it was the first time you'd had seen Sex on the Page. And it was a massive hit and that kind of started this whole genre and I think one of her books was abridged and included in Good Housekeeping. That's how I started with the adult

Gilbert Cruz: Yeah.

Julia Quinn: The novels written for adults and then I discovered Victoria Hol who and she has several different pen names. That is a pen name actually who wrote these gothic novels with a lot of romance in them. And I would stop at the public library, you know, on the way way home from school because I was a kid who walked to school and I would get them and then I go back and turn them in. And so I just kind of fell into these books and and loving them. And so people say, "Well, why did you write romance?" And it was simply because that's what I like to read.

Gilbert Cruz: Yeah.

Julia Quinn: And why not? And you know, for about a minute, I thought, "Oh, I'm going to graduate from college and write the great American novel." And then it occurred to me, I don't even like reading the great American novel. Why would I write one? When you're reading these abridged versions in Good Housekeeping, was the appeal that they were grown up? Was the appeal that it was about romance? Was the appeal that there was maybe some sex or something analogous to that in there?

Julia Quinn: I don't think there I think Good Housekeeping edited all the sex out.

Gilbert Cruz: I think it was the romance.

Julia Quinn: Yeah. I can remember some other books I read like my mom had some books from when she was a teenager like Cherry Ames, Cherry Ames Flight Nurse, Cherry Ames Student Nurse and there was always a little romance in it and I those were the parts I was rereading. So I I think I just always liked the romance.

Gilbert Cruz: Well, when did you first start writing your attempt at the great American novel?

Julia Quinn: No, I I never really did that. So there's actually two parts to this. I'll give you the second one, which was actually I started writing what became my first published novel. The summer between my junior and senior year of college, I was I was working and I had more time and I was reading and I just started and I wrote I think four chapters over the summer and I said, "I'm going to keep doing this during my senior year." And of course, I didn't keep doing it during my senior year. But then I I kept going once I graduated and I ended up writing this book and I got an agent. We managed to sell it and we we at the same time I was applying to medical school because I thought I was going to become a doctor and I actually got my first book deal the same month I was accepted to medical school. So that was a very exciting month. And then I ended up deferring from medical school because I knew I would never be able to pursue the writing. And so I did that and then I deferred again. And then I had what I call my quarter life crisis where I thought, "Oh my gosh, I'm not qualified for anything. All my friends are going to graduate school. What if I don't want to do this writing thing? What if the writing doesn't work out? And I panicked. And I did what I call the shortest on-ramp onto the longest highway, which was to knock on the door of the medical school. And it's literally August at this point and say, "Can I come back? Can I go in?" And they let me. I still can't believe they let me. And I was there for about 2 or 3 months. And I realized this is not the right thing for me. And I withdrew. And so I've been writing ever since.

Gilbert Cruz: What was it about the writing at that point at this early part of your career of your life you can embark in all these different direction where you said I have to do this as opposed to go to medical school and probably make a fine living and be set for the rest of my life in a way

Julia Quinn: You have to remember that when I entered and then exited medical school I had already published three novels which also goes to show you how limited my worldview was because I'm sitting saying I'm not qualified for anything and yet I'd published three novels with a major publishing house in New York, which is kind of the dream, right? But when I left, it's not quite the romance and the drama of saying like, I'm leaving medical school to write a novel. I mean, I already had published novels. I already knew what it was like to be a working writer. I wasn't earning a lot, but I was earning enough to support myself. I mean, I had no kids and no mortgage.

Gilbert Cruz: Who was the first person that told you or gave you the confidence to to keep going? Who said, "This is a real story. This is a real book. You got it. Keep going."

Julia Quinn: Probably my dad. I was about 13 and my parents were divorced and I was spending the summer with my dad down in Southern California and I was reading Sweet Dreams romances, which is basically like the Harley Quinn romances for teenage girls. He would never tell me you can't read something, but he sort of felt I should also be reading other things. And I was going, "Oh, I don't want to read Melville over the summer." He's like, "What about Joseph Conrad?" I'm going like, "So he said to me, look, you tell me something you're getting out of this book and I won't bother you." And I and of course I said, "Well, for pleasure." He goes, "Okay, yes, that's good. But something you're getting out of this book other than just reading it for pleasure and I will not bug you about this again." And I said, "Vocular words." And he said, "Great. Can you find me one word in this book that you didn't already know? I could not. There was much to recommend these books, but a robust vocabulary was not one of them.

Julia Quinn: And so then I had to think really fast cuz I really didn't want to read Moby Dick. And I said, "It's research because I'm going to write one of these books."

Gilbert Cruz: Yeah.

Julia Quinn: And he said, "That's amazing." He said, "You can use the computer tonight." And he parked me in front of his computer and said, "I'll see you soon." And he told me later he expected me to come out in an hour with my hand open saying I'll take the book but instead I was in there and I was typing and by the end of the night I had written like two chapters of this book I called it standing ovation it was a teenage romance and it was very much what I was hoping my high school life was going to be

Julia Quinn: It was not what my high school life was and over the course of a couple summers I wrote an entire teenage romance and I sent it off to Sweet Dreams they rejected me so fast I know they didn't read because

Gilbert Cruz: I know enough about New York now to know that nobody gets rejected out of the slush pile in 2 weeks.

Julia Quinn: In 2 weeks. It just doesn't happen. And I think somebody looked at it and said, "Oh, teenager, she won't know what she's doing." And I So then I never did anything more with it cuz I I didn't know what to do. But I have since found it, you know, and I had to scan it in and clean it up and and I I'm not going to publish it because there's no market for this type of book anymore. But you can absolutely tell it's me. That's the funny thing. My voice is absolutely there.

Gilbert Cruz: And what about it, other than the fact that you once wrote it and you're reading it again? What is the voice that was there early on that you still feel like defines you in some way?

Julia Quinn: I don't really know how to describe it, but it just sounds like me. And I I have had people say to me, you could hand me a romance novel and I could tell it was you. And I I think that's part of what makes certain authors popular and appealing is having a very distinctive voice that you know what you're going to expect. You, not necessarily the same story, but the same tone and voice. And I think that's what I love about so many of the authors that I love

Julia Quinn: Is is is their voice.

Gilbert Cruz: We'll be right back.

Gilbert Cruz: Welcome back. This is the book review podcast. I'm Gilbert Cruz and I'm talking to Julia Quinn, author of the Bridgetgerton series of books on which the hit Netflix show is based. You went to school to college. You studied art history, but you also by the time you were deciding whether or not to actually go forward with medical school, you had published three novels. What is your recollection of what the scene, the romance genre, what what was it like at the time? Because it now it's something very specific and different that we can talk about later. But what was it like at the time?

Julia Quinn: Well, it was it was the biggest business. It was absolutely the biggest money maker for publishing and very much looked down upon by everyone else,

Gilbert Cruz: Including us probably.

Julia Quinn: Yeah. I would never have been here. The New York Times does review romance novels now, which is amazing. But we would have just laughed if anybody suggested it would ever happen then. We were the reason, we still are the reason why publishers can publish poetry because we are paying the bills. So there was that, but the books were all very much in they would come out as mass market paperback originals. It was very, very white, very heterosexual.

Julia Quinn: It still is very white and heterosexual, but less so, much less so. I I remember there was an author who was published, right? Her first book, or at least her first historical romance, I think, was published just a little bit before my first book at Avon Books, which is was my publisher. Her name is Beverly Jenkins. And she's one of the all-time greats of historical romance. And this was the first time, I'm pretty sure, that you saw historical romance with two black characters on the front cuz they they would have the clinch covers then where you'd have and and I've never been a huge fan of clinch covers, but you'd have the two characters there. And this was a huge deal to have two black characters on the front of the book. I think I think the book was called Night Song was the first one. And so the genre had a long way to go in terms of diversity and inclusion. Again, I want to emphasize it still does.

Gilbert Cruz: Yeah.

Julia Quinn: But but we have moved along that journey quite a bit. So it was like that. It was I think the for historical romance you definitely could write in more settings than you can now that has definitely shrunk. Regency which I do primarily has always been very very popular and I've always been very grateful that what I want to do is the popular one but back when I started there were a lot of westerns there were medievals there were you know like Americana type things which I guess not really western because there weren't cowboys but

Gilbert Cruz: Like Main Street USA. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Still very North American and European, but there were more. And now almost all historical romances are set in England between 1800 and 1890. It's just that's what people like.

Gilbert Cruz: We we have to talk about that. Why why do people like that so much? And then why do you like it so much?

Julia Quinn: So my theory and I'm speaking more for the Regency than anything else or the early part

Gilbert Cruz: And Regency is the the early 1800s in England

Julia Quinn: Specifically. I think it's 1810 to 1819, but like the flavor of it kind of probably goes from like 1790 to 1830. And my theory about why it's popular, which I think extends to me as a reader and then a writer too, is that it is far enough in the past that we can romanticize it. We can give it fairy tale qualities. We can excuse behavior and attitudes that we would never accept now. We can have plots that wouldn't work now. I mean, I'm sure I've written a book where everything could be solved if somebody had a cell phone. You can romanticize things that wouldn't necessarily be romantic now, but it's modern enough that you can have your characters think and and and and desire and and want to live a life in ways that are familiar. What I mean by that is if you go say all the way back to medieval times or something, there is a religiosity and mysticism to the world that I think was largely gone. So yes, the values are different. People more churchgoing. There are a lot of things different, but people didn't see this world as quite this mystic place anymore. So I can give things to my characters like one of the main parts of Benedict Bridgetton's characterization in the book and I think also in the show is that he really feels kind of reduced by the fact he's in this big family and people call him number two like oh he's the second one and I think that's something that's very familiar to modern people as well if you come from a big family of of just being sort of like oh that's so and so's little brother that's that kind of thing. So we can give these these aspects of characterizations and hopes and dreams which are still fundamentally familiar. So it's it's a sweet spot.

Gilbert Cruz: The first season of Bridgetgerton debuted in 2020. It's December. It's the end of that first year of the pandemic. You live with a doctor. Christmas Day comes. This show comes out. Take me back to that day. Those last few weeks of the year. What was it like for you? How surprising was it? Tell me everything that happened.

Julia Quinn: It was surreal and magical in every possible way. I I never thought we were going to have a flop. I knew there were enough romance readers who were just dying for something like this. Did I think it was going to do what it did? No. I don't think anybody dreams that big. It was obvious that something was exploding.

Gilbert Cruz: You're a consulting producer on the series. Is that still your your title? Visa v the show.

Julia Quinn: Yes. The title makes it sound like much more than it actually is, but yes,

Gilbert Cruz: You're a consulting producer. It it is it is showrunned by Shaolan. What was it like and what does it continue to be like to have created these world these characters and then be like okay here you go everyone take care of my babies.

Julia Quinn: I had no trouble with saying take care of my babies. I I know for some authors it's a really big deal. I'm somebody who at the end of the day I shut my computer and they're gone. I'm not somebody who dreams about characters. I'm not thinking about them all the time. I'm very compartmentalized. And when I finish a book, I don't really think about what happens to these characters unless I need to bring them back for some reason as secondary characters. And so it was 11 years after the last book had come out. So I had already moved on in many ways. So that was not hard. What is really fascinating and what was unexpected was to

Julia Quinn: Have found myself having authored something that turned into this cultural juggernaut and really entered the international zeitgeist where people can say, "Oh, that's so Bridgetgerton." And and you know what they mean. And like they spoofed it on the Simpsons. They had Tunnelton on the Simpsons, which

Gilbert Cruz: That's that's when you know something's going to be forever.

Julia Quinn: What I found out in the car coming over here is that it's on the new reboot of The Muppet Show.

Gilbert Cruz: Really?

Julia Quinn: Pigs and wigs.

Gilbert Cruz: All right, that's pretty good. I'm sure you see every season there are lots of people that have so many opinions about changes from books to screen. I'm wondering as an author and again there's been this huge gap between when you published the last book and when the show came out. Have there been any changes that have been particularly meaningful for you as the person who generated this all?

Julia Quinn: Certainly the most meaningful one was the decision to use color conscious casting and a lot of people refer to as colorblind casting but that's not that's not accurate. Colorblind casting would be where you just you approach each role and you just pick somebody based on their talents. If they had done colorblind casting, for example, the Bridgetgertons might not look like they could possibly be genetically related. Instead, they did color conscious casting where they wanted to have a multi-racial and much more inclusive cast. And they thought very deeply about who they were going to cast where. And I love it. That's not how I wrote the books. I don't think I specified anybody's race in the book, but I think it's fairly well implied that they were white. I'm not a terribly descriptive author, and maybe that helped. One thing that Shondaanda said to me once, which really touched me was that she said when she was reading the books, she never felt excluded. She never felt like she couldn't see herself in the story, which meant a lot to me that she said that. But again, the books don't have the same diversity that the show has. And I am thrilled that they found a way to do this to make it a show and a world where more people can see themselves in the story. I knew they were going to do something because it's Shaolin. They don't they don't do shows where everybody's all white. And I thought, okay, well, either they're going to go colorblind casting like what I talked about, which I wasn't thrilled about. Part of the whole Bridgetton family thing is that they all look alike and that sort of thing. Or I thought they were going to change up the plots in a way to introduce more like angst that has to do with the very real traumas and a history of racism

Gilbert Cruz: Or colonialism or

Julia Quinn: Yeah bring more of that in. Instead they found something entirely different which was to take this very real historical question which is was Queen Charlotte of mixed race and and just to address that we know she definitely had some African ancestry that's just there in her family tree. What we don't know is that if she presented as biracial in any way, and we'll never know that. But we also know that if she did present as biracial in any way, it was not something that they were playing up or accepting. And so Chris Van Dusen, the the creator of the show, and and Shondaa and everybody, Shauna Lynn said, "Okay, well, what if she did definitely present as biracial? And what if that was accepted and recognized and how would might that have changed history?" And so that's how they got the idea to start the show one generation beyond the introduction of of color into this high society world and what how might that have changed it. And so you just open with the world being different than it really was. But nobody said it's a history lesson. And I think it's just so important and it's something that I never had to know about. I think the definition, one of the definitions of privilege is really all the things that you never have to think about. I don't come from British aristocratic stock by any sense. I don't even come from British stock. But when I watch a period drama, the people look enough like me that I can see myself in it. And I'm ashamed to say I never thought about all the people who couldn't. And with Bridgetgerton, suddenly the heroin in the ball gown comes from a southern Indian state. And one of my closest friends, Chitra, calls me up practically crying saying, "I never got to see myself in these things." And you realize how important it is because it's a story about happy endings, especially of having a place where people can see somebody like them depicted where it's a story about joy and happiness and love and not just about the trauma of whatever happened. And I think it's wonderful and I'm very grateful to Shaolin for making it happen.

Gilbert Cruz: Whenever an author or an artist, a creator of any sort is involved in something popular, I'm always very curious about the way that they have to interact or interface with the world. I imagine you had a lot of fans who just knew you from the book. And once you ascend into the Netflix plane, you have a whole other possibly more intense level of fandom that is associated with Bridgetton. Have you found it wonderful, difficult to navigate the different kinds of feedback and people that people's voices that you have to interact with?

Julia Quinn: Wonderful and difficult are both good words for that. Most everything is wonderful. Some of the the fandoms are are pretty intense and some of it is just like you people like consider themselves like fans of specific couples. So the season 2 fans are Anthony. This season 3 is Pollen and then season four is Benfy. And you don't see as many Simon and and Daphne ones. I don't Diamond. I I can't really but it's really these three sets and they like go to war sometimes.

Gilbert Cruz: Uhhuh.

Julia Quinn: And you just they have to be like wow. Okay. And then there are some people they get angry about something the show does. And another thing that's interesting is that there are some who get very angry about certain things that have been changed from the books. And what I didn't expect was the level of vitrial some of them will point toward me.

Gilbert Cruz: Yeah, that's that's what I'm curious about.

Julia Quinn: And yeah, there is that people saying she's just in it for the money. She only cares about her paycheck. And a lot of this is about one of the characters has been changed from a man to a woman, which is opening the door for a lesbian relationship. And honestly, you know, for all the people who are accusing me of of selling out fans and just doing for a paycheck, I don't know when you take a heterosexual relationship in a television show and make it into a homosexual relationship in the television show and do it for money. I don't think you do that for money. I don't think you're making more money off that. I think you do it because you you want to tell a different story.

Gilbert Cruz: You have been a romance writer for quite a while now. You talked about what it was like when you first started. We are in a moment right now where as successful as it was a decade, a couple decades ago, it really is an amazing place right now. You have all these subg genres that are just really thriving. Whether it's romantic, which is its own subgenre already this year in 2026, we've seen because of the heated rivalry adaptation, the queer hockey romance subgenre start to thrive. You have alongside you hit authors like Emily Henry and Taylor Jenkins Reed and and Jasmine Giller and a bunch of other people. As a person who has been in the genre for a while and has succeeded, how does it feel to you right now in this moment?

Julia Quinn: It's it's pretty remarkable. I mean to have the beginning of it's what well we I guess it's February now, but we have Bridgetgerton. We had people we meet on vacation and heated rivalry. I mean it's incredible to see all that and you and there's more coming. So it's really wonderful. But what what's been kind of curious to me is that except for me, this boom has not really extended toward historical romance that much. And I'm not entirely certain why.

Julia Quinn: Part of me is thinking like, gosh, I hope it's not that they're picking up a Bridgetton novel and saying, well, I don't like this. I'm not doing anything again. But I I don't think that's it because my data seems to show me that people who come to the Bridgetton novels read most of them and a lot of my books, they're liking that. And for some reason, they're not moving on to other authors. And so I actually have been trying to do something about that. I started a book club called JQ Editions which is well part book club, part subscription box where it's all it's hand selected by me. So you're getting a curated selection every other month of what I consider the best of the best historical romances. And it is a mix of new books, recent gems, and what are my I'm calling classics of the modern genre. And we're doing them up in beautiful covers. That's the other big thing in publishing now is that everything has a special edition.

Gilbert Cruz: The covers, the sprayed edges, the end papers.

Julia Quinn: Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's it's been fun. But nobody in historical romance was getting it except for me. So now I'm I'm giving it to other.

Gilbert Cruz: You're out there stumping for your for your sub genre.

Julia Quinn: I am. I am stumping so hard for my sub genre and trying to get people in there. But but people readers do say to me, you know, oh, what should I read after Bridgetgerton? And now I can say this. Here you go.

Gilbert Cruz: As we approach the end of our conversation, I want to turn to a very particular set of questions that we have for you. For more than a decade, every week, the New York Times Book Review has asked authors a recurring set of questions about their reading, about their reading lives, part of a series that we call Buy the Book.

Gilbert Cruz: By the book,

Gilbert Cruz: Julia, you are ready.

Julia Quinn: I hope so.

Gilbert Cruz: Okay, here are some by the book questions for you. Julia Quinn, what is on your nightstand?

Julia Quinn: On my nightstand right now is The Astral Library by Kate Quinn, who is no relation, but a wonderful person. It's a very difficult book to describe. Kate Quinn is known as a historical fiction author. This is her first jump into magical realism where you've got this library that's basically it's a magical library that's kind of its own sentient being and allows people who kind of need to escape things in their lives like maybe an abusive husband or some other bad situation to come in and live their lives within the pages of a favorite book. And the Astral Library itself is under kind of a siege from outside forces and our plucky heroine has to save at the Astral Library. I love a plucky heroin.

Gilbert Cruz: Yes.

Gilbert Cruz: What book might people be surprised to find on your shelves?

Julia Quinn: I'm going to go with The Hitcher's Guide to the Galaxy, which I adore. And actually, not everybody would be surprised because eagle-eyed readers of Romancing Mr. Bridgetton, which is Colin and Penelope story, will spot a little homage to the Hitcher's Guide in the book, which is somebody says, "How many great mysteries of life are there anyway?" And Cullen says, "I don't know, 42."

Gilbert Cruz: I get that reference.

Julia Quinn: I love that. And I love that I, the Regency historical romance author, managed to put Hitchhiker's Guide into one of my books.

Gilbert Cruz: Sneaky, sneaky. Julia, what is your favorite book that no one else has really heard of?

Julia Quinn: I would say it is a memoir called Lost in Place: Growing Up Absurd in Suburbia by Mark Salsman. His name is. And that was given to me as a gift because the opening paragraph

Julia Quinn: Talks about him saying, "I informed my parents I was willing to renounce my spot at Eastridge Junior High School." And I said, "I went to Eastridge Junior High School." So, this is set in my hometown, and he's actually going to the same schools I went to. And that's why I got it. And I kept it because it is just this amazing story of growing up in a very specific time and place which is very close to my time and place. It is my place, very close to my time and it's just it's so beautifully written and so funny and heartfelt and I have given it as a gift actually many many times.

Gilbert Cruz: Julia, that segus into my next question which is what is the best book you've ever received as a gift? So, this is a tough one because I get people get me books a lot, but I think it was Last Days of Summer by Steve Kuger and I'm always having to stop and think if there's a the but I don't I think it's just Last Days of Summer and that was a gift actually from somebody at HarperCollins, my publishing house. An editor, not my editor, different editor just thought I would love it and she sent it and she was absolutely right. And that is another book I' I have given as a gift to a lot of people too. It's an episttolary novel set during World War II set in Brooklyn about this, I think it's 12 or 13year-old boy named Joey Margles who's and and so you've got like telegrams and bar mitzvah programs and letters and and and it's one of those books that is so so so funny and yet will just punch you in the gut. Also,

Gilbert Cruz: I just read, you know, a month and a half ago the episttolary novel, The Correspondent. It had been a while since I had read an episttolary novel. I always forget how they have their own special and unique delights.

Julia Quinn: When done well, they are absolutely fabulous. And and just to bring this back to my genre of romance, because I hate being the author who's recommending things outside her genre all the time, but there are many many good romances that have episttolary aspects to it, especially now with contemporary romance. You get lots of texting in there

Julia Quinn: And and they're always fun and I I'm always wishing I could do it in mine.

Gilbert Cruz: Julia, what books do you find yourself returning to again and again?

Julia Quinn: I'm not much of a rreader actually. I I think I'm I'm the wrong person for that question. I will say

Gilbert Cruz: You can say pass.

Julia Quinn: Well, that's all right. I I will say that when I was reading to my kids as they were growing up, you knew it was a great book if I read it aloud twice, one to each child. And and so I I ran the book fair actually at their school for many years. And so when people would ask me to recommend books, I'd say like I read this one aloud twice. So, like the Phantom Toll booth, like what are we talking about?

Julia Quinn: I did The City of Ember twice. I did The Wednesday Wars by Gary D. Schmidt twice, which is just a fabulous book.

Julia Quinn: I did The Evolution of Kalpernia Tate twice.

Gilbert Cruz: Julia, are there any classic novels that you only just recently read for the first time?

Julia Quinn: Not really. I I will say I do have some that I I have on my list that I need to read. And this is this so this will be my most embarrassing moment for this podcast. I have never actually read Hamlet.

Gilbert Cruz: Okay.

Julia Quinn: Somehow and it never came up on our our list. You know when I was in junior high in high school they would assign one Shakespeare play every year and somehow Hamlet was never the one that was assigned. I I was in the theater club. I was in I think Alswwell that ends well. So I' I've been in Shakespeare plays. I've read lots and somehow I never read Hamlet. So that I have that that's on my list of things that I actually I feel I should do.

Gilbert Cruz: Have you seen it performed?

Julia Quinn: Not on the stage, actually.

Gilbert Cruz: All right. Well, as long as you see it performed, then you're good. You don't have to read it if you see a good performance.

Julia Quinn: Okay. I did go see Richard II recently with Jonathan Bailey in London and

Gilbert Cruz: Oh, well,

Julia Quinn: It was great.

Gilbert Cruz: We all love Jonathan Bailey.

Julia Quinn: I managed to get go backstage, too, which was

Gilbert Cruz: Amazing. Yes.

Gilbert Cruz: Okay, last by the book question. Julia, describe your ideal reading experience.

Julia Quinn: I am somebody who will read anytime, anywhere. I don't need an ideal reading experience. You will find me reading anywhere I can. Truly,

Gilbert Cruz: Is there any part of you at all that misses when it was just you and your books and the fans of your books and that the explosion that has happened around Bridgetgerton has just made it a little less your own thing?

Julia Quinn: No, no, this is great. This this is great. It's wonderful. Yeah. And and I'm not like the cast like I don't get recognized. I can count on one hand the times I've been recognized where I was not in some sort of bookreated place walking around like the ALA convention like that doesn't count.

Gilbert Cruz: Yeah.

Julia Quinn: So it's not like the cast who have had to change their daily lives in a big way. So no, this is all wonderful. I get to be active and and passionate about political causes and philanthropic causes that

Julia Quinn: That mean a lot to me. And I I very much want to point out also that part of the reason I can do that is because the show and and my books have made me very financially secure. So if I do alienate some of my readers, I'm okay. And and I would never want to

Julia Quinn: Do anything to put down authors who don't feel they can speak out because they may they have they may be needing to sell as many books as they can just to feed their kids. And so not everybody is in the position or has the privilege where they can speak out about issues that are very important to them.

Gilbert Cruz: Julia Quinn, thank you so much for coming on to the Book Review Podcast. It's been a delight to have you on.

Julia Quinn: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Gilbert Cruz: That was my delightful conversation with author Julia Quinn about Bridgetgerton book and show. I'm Gilbert Cruz, editor of the New York Times Book Review. Thanks for listening.