竞选集会：民众的心声

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

So, what I am staring at is a line of people waiting to get inside Zoran Mamani's campaign rally here in Washington Heights. 现在，我眼前是一排排等待进入佐兰·马马尼在华盛顿高地竞选集会的人群。

It's now 6:00 p.m. on Monday night, October 13th. 现在是10月13日星期一晚上6点。

It's hard to explain just how big this line is. 这条队伍有多长，真的很难形容。

It literally spans three and a half blocks and it is dense. 它绵延了整整三个半街区，人头攒动。

And we are going to talk to people in this line and inside this rally about what it is Manny means to them. 我们将采访队伍中和集会内的人们，了解马马尼对他们意味着什么。

Let's go. 我们走吧。

We're from the show called The Daily. 我们来自《The Daily》节目。

Oh, hello. 哦，你好。

Hi. And we're just going to ask people in a word what Mandonni means to you, what he represents. 你好。我们想问问大家，用一个词来形容，马马尼对你意味着什么，他代表着什么。

One word. 一个词？

Yeah, why not? 是的，为什么不呢？

Compassion. Honest person. 同情心。诚实的人。

He's real. 他很真实。

He's brown and I'm brown. 他是棕色皮肤，我也是棕色皮肤。

That simple. 就这么简单。

That simple. 就这么简单。

Yeah. 是的。

Hope. 希望。

Hope. My first choice would be hope and then the future. 希望。我的首选是希望，然后是未来。

I think he is a fresh and actual change in the party. 我认为他是党内一次清新而真实的变革。

I'm 16 years old and from what I've heard. 我16岁，据我所知。

No, I can't. But I've been volunteering under Zoron and apparently according to adults it's really rare to be like happy or excited about a politician. So you know this is kind of a once in a lifetime thing. 不，我不能。但我一直在佐兰手下做志愿者，显然成年人说，对一个政治家感到高兴或兴奋是非常罕见的。所以你知道，这有点像一生一次的经历。

I'm here cuz um actually my son turned me to saw him. 我来这里是因为，嗯，实际上是我儿子让我认识了他。

I didn't know anything about him. 我之前对他一无所知。

I was talking to him one day. I said, you know, I may just vote for Cuomo because I thought it was Cuomo and Adam. 有一天我跟他聊天。我说，你知道吗，我可能只会投库默的票，因为我以为是库默和亚当。

Yeah. 是的。

He's like, you didn't hear about Storeand. And I said, uh, no. He sent me a couple of videos and I like what he had to offer. 他说：“你没听说过佐兰吗？”我说：“呃，没有。”他给我发了一些视频，我喜欢他提出的东西。

So much so that you're here at his rally. 以至于你现在在这里参加他的集会。

Yes. And I've been canvasing for him actually the past three weeks. So, 是的。实际上，过去三周我一直在为他拉票。所以，

we're also very excited about his position about Palestine and what's going on. 我们也非常兴奋他关于巴勒斯坦和当前局势的立场。

I'm an anti-ionist Jewish girl and I think it's really important that people see that perspective, right? 我是一个反犹太复国主义的犹太女孩，我认为人们看到这种观点非常重要，对吧？

Like finally some movement away from centrist pandering to oligarchic fascists. Not to put too fine a point on it, 就像终于摆脱了中间派对寡头法西斯主义的迎合。恕我直言，

a rather fine point. I just feel like it's very necessary for us to have places in this country that are very openly progressive and are not bending to the will of what the president wants and what he represents. 说得相当到位。我只是觉得，在这个国家，我们非常需要一些公开进步、不屈从于总统意愿和其所代表的一切的地方。

As a workingclass person, this is very exciting moment for us. 作为工薪阶层，这对我们来说是一个非常激动人心的时刻。

Someone thinking about us, someone commit to working for us. 有人在为我们着想，有人致力于为我们工作。

We're about to raise a family. We don't want to be priced out. 我们即将组建家庭。我们不想被高价排挤出去。

You're pregnant. 你怀孕了。

Very much so. 是的，很明显。

How many months? 几个月了？

Eight. I mean, I don't want to be presumptuous, but free child care for all. 八个月。我的意思是，我不想妄自菲薄，但希望所有人都能享受免费儿童保育。

We were just talking about that to you as well. 我们刚才也跟你谈论了这件事。

It very much is. Yeah. 确实如此。是的。

Doran to help us freeze the rent, 佐兰将帮助我们冻结租金，

faster buses. 更快的公交车。

He's going to get free buses, 他将实现免费公交，

put cheaper groceries, 让杂货更便宜，

grocery cheaper, and child care 杂货更便宜，还有儿童保育

and help families. 并帮助家庭。

All right. Wow. Thank you for your help. 好的。哇。谢谢你的帮助。

People know this platform like they know the back of their hands. 人们对这个平台了如指掌。

Ladies and gentlemen, come on down. Come on in. 女士们先生们，请下来。请进来。

And now we go to security. 现在我们去安检。

They'll check you in. 他们会给你办理入场手续。

So, we're inside this auditorium now, which has a capacity of about 3,500 people, and it very much feels like it's at capacity. 现在我们进入了这个礼堂，它大约能容纳3500人，感觉已经座无虚席了。

I need to for the next mayor of the city of New York, Zoron. 我需要为纽约市的下一任市长，佐兰。

After a very long wind up and a bunch of introductory speeches, Mandani is now finally taking the stage. 经过漫长的铺垫和一系列介绍性演讲后，马马尼终于登台了。

[Applause] [掌声]

Billionaires like Bill Aman and Ronald Lauder have poured millions of dollars into this race because they say that we pose an existential threat. 比尔·阿曼和罗纳德·劳德等亿万富翁已向这场竞选投入数百万美元，因为他们说我们构成了生存威胁。

And I am here to admit something. 我在此承认一件事。

They are right. 他们是对的。

Fundamental change only comes from the courage to turn your back on the old formulas. 根本性变革只来源于有勇气抛弃旧模式。

The courage to invent the future 有勇气共同创造未来。

together. That is exactly what we have done. 这正是我们所做的。

Because for all those who say our time is coming, 因为对于所有说我们时代即将到来的人，

my friends, 我的朋友们，

our time is now. 我们的时代就是现在。

[Music] [音乐]

Okay, so the rally is now over. 好的，集会现在结束了。

The crowd is spilling out onto the streets of Washington Heights and the next stop for us is Mamani's campaign headquarters in Manhattan where we are going to sit down with him for an interview. 人群涌向华盛顿高地的街道，我们的下一站是马马尼在曼哈顿的竞选总部，我们将与他坐下来进行一次采访。

From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. 这里是《纽约时报》的迈克尔·巴巴罗。

This is the daily. Today, Zoron Mandani on the movement he's created in New York City, his critique of the Democratic Party, 这里是《The Daily》。今天，我们将听佐兰·马马尼讲述他在纽约市发起的运动、他对民主党的批判，

his courtship of those he has alienated with his campaign so far, and his plans to stand up to Donald Trump. 他对那些因其竞选活动而疏远的人的争取，以及他对抗唐纳德·特朗普的计划。

It's Thursday, October 16th. 今天是10月16日，星期四。

[Music] [音乐]

Hello. 你好。

Hey, we're here to go to the Mandani campaign headquarters. 嘿，我们来这里是要去马马尼的竞选总部。

How's this going? Can they come? 进展如何？他们能来吗？

Yeah. 是的。

Oh, they'll come pick us up. Okay, I'll text them. You're welcome. 哦，他们会来接我们。好的，我给他们发短信。不客气。

Oh, there's Assemblyman. Nani. 哦，那是州议员马马尼。

Hello. How are you? 你好。你怎么样？

Hello. How's it going? Pleasure to meet you. It's such a pleasure. 你好。进展如何？很高兴见到你。非常荣幸。

Hi, 你好，

Aa. Nice to meet you. 啊。很高兴见到你。

Do you mind helping me? 你介意帮我一下吗？

The third floor, which we sometimes stop at, has these Halloween decorations that always take you a little bit of back. 我们有时会停留的三楼，有这些万圣节装饰，总是让人有点吃惊。

Is this Is this your office? 这是你的办公室吗？

Yeah. 是的。

Okay. 好的。

Oh, wow. 哦，哇。

To call it modest 说它简朴

would be an injustice to the word modest. 是对“简朴”这个词的不公。

Modest is 简朴是

Yeah, you can sit in that chair. 是的，你可以坐那把椅子。

The recliner. 那张躺椅。

Okay, we're going. Um, Assemblyman, 好的，我们走吧。嗯，议员先生，

do people call you Assemblyman? 人们都叫你议员吗？

Some people do. You can you can call me Zoran. 有些人是。你可以叫我佐兰。

That's a little familiar. Um, Assemblyman Mandani, thank you for making time for us and thank you for inviting us to your rally last night. 那有点太亲密了。嗯，马马尼议员，感谢您抽出时间接受我们的采访，也感谢您昨晚邀请我们参加您的集会。

You're very welcome. It's a pleasure to be here. 非常欢迎。很高兴能在这里。

历史性时刻的候选人

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

So, you sit, according to the polls, including our own at the times, on the cusp of a historic political victory, because at the age of well, you're now 33, but you'll be 34 just a couple days after this runs. 根据包括我们《泰晤士报》在内的民意调查，你正处于一场历史性政治胜利的边缘，因为你现在33岁，但节目播出几天后你将满34岁。

You would be the youngest mayor in a century. You'd be New York City's first Muslim mayor. You'd be its first Democratic Socialist mayor. 你将成为一个世纪以来最年轻的市长。你将是纽约市第一位穆斯林市长。你将是第一位民主社会主义 (Democratic Socialism: 一种政治意识形态，主张通过民主手段实现社会主义目标，强调政府在保障公民尊严和基本需求方面的作用。) 市长。

Well, I I wouldn't actually be the first Democratic socialist mayor. 嗯，我其实不是第一位民主社会主义市长。

Who would it be? David Dinkens was also a member of the Democratic Socialist. A co-member of the Democratic Party on the right. Is that it? 那会是谁呢？大卫·丁金斯也是民主社会主义者的一员。是民主党右翼的共同成员。是这样吗？

Well, he was a member of DSA (Democratic Socialists of America: 美国最大的社会主义组织，致力于推动民主社会主义理念和政策。), identified also as a Democratic Socialist. 嗯，他是美国民主社会主义者 (Democratic Socialists of America, DSA: 美国最大的社会主义组织，致力于推动民主社会主义理念和政策。) 的成员，也自认为是民主社会主义者。

Interesting. Thank you for the Thank you for the correction. Unaware. 有意思。谢谢你的纠正。我不知道。

You'd be the second Democratic Socialist mayor after David Dinkens. 你将是大卫·丁金斯之后的第二位民主社会主义市长。

And I'd like for this conversation to trace the arc of how you got to this moment, the forces, the ideas that made you the candidate that first got into this race, the style of the campaign that transformed you from being, I think it's safe to say, virtually unknown into the winner of the primary for the Democratic nomination, and the way since that you have tried to broaden your appeal, answer your skeptics in this general election, and finally, of course, what it will look like if you do become mayor. 我希望这次对话能追溯你如何走到这一步的历程，那些让你成为首位参与这场竞选的候选人的力量和思想，以及将你从一个可以说几乎默默无闻的人转变为民主党提名初选获胜者的竞选风格，以及自那以后你如何努力扩大自己的吸引力，回应这次大选中对你的质疑者，当然，最后，如果你真的成为市长，那会是怎样一番景象。

And somehow we're going to do that in an hour. 我们将在一个小时内完成这一切。

You grew up the son of a well-known filmmaker. Your mother directed Denzel Washington. Even 你是在一位知名电影制作人的儿子。你母亲曾执导丹泽尔·华盛顿的电影。甚至

Mississippi Masala. 《密西西比马萨拉》。

Mississippi Masala. Your father was a college professor who studied among other things apartheid and genocide. 《密西西比马萨拉》。你父亲是一位大学教授，研究过种族隔离和大屠杀等议题。

As a young man, you become a college activist. You're focused on progressive politics. 年轻时，你成为一名大学活动家。你专注于进步政治。

And when you graduate from college and start your career in the progressive world, you start to identify not as a Democrat, but as a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. 当你大学毕业并在进步世界开始你的职业生涯时，你开始将自己定义为美国民主社会主义者 (DSA: 美国最大的社会主义组织，致力于推动民主社会主义理念和政策。) 的成员，而不是一名民主党人。

And given your bio, being a Democrat feels like it would have been a pretty natural home. 鉴于你的个人经历，成为一名民主党人似乎是相当自然的归属。

So just let me start by asking about what went into that decision, what you were embracing and what you were rejecting in that identification. 所以，我想先问问你做出这个决定的原因，你在这个身份认同中接受了什么，又拒绝了什么。

So I I wouldn't describe those two identities as mutually exclusive. 所以，我不会把这两个身份描述为相互排斥的。

I think that one can live within the other. 我认为一个可以存在于另一个之中。

Meaning that I am both a democratic socialist and I'm also a democrat. 这意味着我既是民主社会主义者，也是民主党人。

One is a description of my political ideology. The other is a description of the party that I belong to. 一个是对我政治意识形态的描述。另一个是对我所属政党的描述。

DSA being the ideology, DSA是意识形态，

democratic socialism being the ideology, DSA being an organization, the Democratic Party being the party. 民主社会主义是一种意识形态，DSA是一个组织，民主党是一个政党。

And it was Bernie Sanders's run in 2016 that gave me the language of democratic socialism to describe my own politics. 是伯尼·桑德斯在2016年的竞选，给了我用民主社会主义的语言来描述我自己的政治理念。

It took what I had thought were disperate ideas and cohered them and gave me an understanding of what that politics was and also what a larger movement looked like of people who also were animated by that same focus on dignity on the unacceptable nature of income inequality across this country. 它将我原以为是零散的想法整合起来，让我理解了这种政治是什么，以及一个更大规模的运动是怎样的，这个运动中的人们同样被对尊严的关注以及全国范围内不可接受的收入不平等的性质所激励。

And to me, what democratic socialism means is a belief that it is government's job to ensure that every person is living a life of dignity. 对我来说，民主社会主义意味着一种信念，即政府的职责是确保每个人都能过上有尊严的生活。

And dignity is not the things that you'd like. It's not the things that you'd want. It's the things that you need. 尊严并非你喜欢的东西。并非你想要的东西。而是你必需的东西。

And there's a general common sense around many of those things. 对于其中许多事情，存在一种普遍的共识。

You know, in New York City, in this country, we'd say that every child deserves public education that's free point of service of K through 12. 你知道，在纽约市，在这个国家，我们会说每个孩子都应该享有从幼儿园到12年级的免费公共教育。

But we also think that it's okay to be priced out of the education you need prior to that. Child care. 但我们也认为，在那之前，你所需要的教育被价格排挤出去是可以接受的。儿童保育也是如此。

And for some reason, there's a point at which you should deserve education. Then there's a point before that at which it depends on your family's ability to pay. 出于某种原因，有一个点是你应该获得教育的。而在这之前，则取决于你家庭的支付能力。

Right. And it's somewhat arbitrary. 没错。这在某种程度上是武断的。

Yes. And the ability to pay is not a nominal amount. We're talking about an average generally of $22,500 a year for a 3-year-old or a four-year-old or a 2-year-old. 是的。而且支付能力不是一个象征性的金额。我们谈论的是一个3岁、4岁或2岁孩子每年平均22500美元的费用。

And so to me, what democratic socialism is the the fulfillment of the ideal that underpins things that already exist within our society but are currently being applied in either a partial manner or not at all. 所以对我来说，民主社会主义是实现一种理想，这种理想支撑着我们社会中已经存在的事物，但目前这些事物要么部分实施，要么根本没有实施。

So democratic socialism gives you a vocabulary to identify those injustices, those inequities and say 所以民主社会主义为你提供了一种词汇，来识别那些不公正、不平等，并指出

they don't need to be. 它们没有存在的必要。

And it teaches me that the way I feel about housing and the way I feel about public transit and the way I feel about child care, these are not different opinions necessarily. 它告诉我，我对住房、公共交通和儿童保育的看法，不一定只是不同的观点。

They are in fact rooted in the same understanding of the world we should be living in. 它们实际上都根植于我们对理想世界相同的理解。

Democrats talk about many of the things that you just identified have for quite some time, right? Childare, healthcare, affordability. 民主党人谈论你刚才提到的许多事情已经有一段时间了，对吧？儿童保育、医疗保健、可负担性。

And I think it's fair to say that, and this I think was on display at your rally last night, that you have some real objections to the way traditional Democrats have operated. 而且我认为可以公平地说，昨晚在你的集会上也表现出来了，你对传统民主党人的运作方式确实有一些异议。

And I want to get to the heart of that where you think the distinction lies between the problems you're identifying and want to solve the vision for solving it and what the existing Democratic parties view of those things are because you don't mince words about old ways, old formulas 我想深入探讨这一点，你认为你正在识别并希望解决的问题、解决这些问题的愿景，以及现有民主党对这些问题的看法之间有什么区别，因为你对旧方式、旧模式直言不讳，

and a kind of sclerotic democratic party that you see your movement as not just changing but maybe fully replacing. 以及你认为你的运动不仅要改变，甚至可能完全取代的那种僵化的民主党。

对传统民主党的批判

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

You know, in this race right now, it's easy to view 你知道，在目前的这场竞选中，很容易将

one of my opponents, Andrew Cuomo, through the 我的一个对手，安德鲁·库默，通过

former governor, y 前州长，

caricature that he is creating of himself. 他自己所塑造的漫画形象来看待。

But prior to this moment, he was considered by many to be a leader in the Democratic party, 但在这一刻之前，他曾被许多人认为是民主党内的领导者，

one of the most prominent Democrats to emerge from this state. at a point someone that people were speaking about as 是从这个州走出的最杰出的民主党人之一。在某个时候，人们甚至谈论他

a politician who should run for president of this country. 应该竞选这个国家的总统。

I remember 我记得

and he is an example of so much of what has disappointed so many about our party because 他就是我们党内许多令人失望之处的一个例子，因为

for for all that he is today, there have been examples of this in years past. 尽管他现在是这样，但过去几年也有过类似的例子。

And these these were the very things that we would overlook or we would simply see as parts of what politics had to be. 而这些正是我们过去会忽视，或者简单地认为政治本就如此的一部分。

Yeah. Get specific about it if you don't mind 是的。如果你不介意的话，请具体说明一下，

because I think there are plent there are plenty of New Yorkers who see an Andrew Cuomo putting aside which for many is impossible the allegations of sexual misconduct. 因为我认为有很多纽约人看待安德鲁·库默，撇开性行为不端的指控（这对许多人来说是不可能的）。

A governor who used his platform to remake Lagori airport to build Moahan Station. we just went through it to pass gay marriage who used the Democratic party and its values to create pretty substantial change. 一位州长，他利用自己的平台改造了拉瓜迪亚机场，建造了莫伊尼汉车站。我们刚刚经历了同性婚姻的通过，他利用民主党及其价值观创造了相当大的变革。

And he's the same governor who ensured that there would be Republican power in Albany such that the only progress that would be made was that which he was willing to accept. 而他也是那位确保奥尔巴尼存在共和党势力的州长，以至于唯一能取得的进展，就是他愿意接受的那些。

Many of the same achievements that are accredited to him are the ones that he was initially an obstacle towards before becoming seen as the architect of. 许多归功于他的成就，最初他都是其阻碍者，直到后来才被视为其缔造者。

Thinking about this as the same person who cut funding for a program called Advantage that was providing millions of dollars in connecting homeless New Yorkers with apartments that they could live in. 想想看，他就是削减了一项名为“优势”计划资金的人，该计划曾投入数百万美元，帮助无家可归的纽约人找到住所。

and I actually met a woman right here in New York City who had just been approved to that program right before the funding was cut. 我实际上在纽约市遇到一位女士，她就在资金被削减前刚刚获批加入该计划。

And the cutting of that funding was one that then pushed her out of the apartment that she was able to rent. 而那笔资金的削减，导致她无法租住到她本可以租到的公寓。

This is the same governor who gave Elon Musk $959 million in tax credits 这位州长曾给予埃隆·马斯克9.59亿美元的税收抵免

in New York. 在纽约。

In New York. I say these things because sometimes it's tempting to think that all that is wrong in this moment is from Donald Trump. 在纽约。我之所以说这些，是因为有时人们会倾向于认为，当下所有的问题都源于唐纳德·特朗普。

But it's important that the very same people that we have villainized and thought of solely through the prism of Trump existed prior to him and in fact were some of the very people that were uplifted by these kinds of leaders within the Democratic party. 但重要的是，那些我们妖魔化并仅仅通过特朗普的视角来审视的人，在他之前就已存在，事实上，他们正是民主党内这类领导人所推崇的一些人。

If you want to understand why so many have come to associate politics with a extended play of diminishing faith and trust. 如果你想了解为什么这么多人开始将政治与信仰和信任的不断削弱联系起来。

Then we also have to understand who the politicians have been that have been leading these very parties and that many of these issues are not exclusive to the Republican party. 那么我们也必须了解，究竟是哪些政治家一直在领导这些政党，以及许多这些问题并非共和党所独有。

They are in fact endemic within our own party. 它们实际上在我们自己的党内也是普遍存在的。

And if we want to truly move beyond Donald Trump, we also have to understand the systems that allowed for the flourishing of someone like Donald Trump and that many of those systems and styles of politics are also within our own party and Andrew Cuomo being an example of the fusion of these things. 如果我们真的想超越唐纳德·特朗普，我们也必须了解那些让唐纳德·特朗普这样的人得以兴盛的体制，而且许多这些体制和政治风格也存在于我们自己的党内，安德鲁·库默就是这些事物融合的一个例子。

So just to distill this critique, Democrats like Cuomo make big progressive promises. 所以，总结一下这个批判，像库默这样的民主党人会做出宏大的进步承诺。

When the rubber meets the road in your mind, they will cave to the other side, to the elites, to the donor class. 在你看来，当真正需要兑现时，他们会向对方、向精英、向捐助阶层妥协。

They ultimately disappoint on questions like affordability 他们最终在可负担性等问题上令人失望

and you're saying you will not you will not do that. You will not disappoint. 而你正在说你不会那样做。你不会让人失望。

Yes, 是的。

that's the idea. 这就是想法。

Yes. 是的。

Why do you think that they make compromises that you, not yet mayor, not governor, um, and not having to work with the other side are so certain you will never make? 你认为他们为什么会做出妥协，而你，一个尚未成为市长、州长，也无需与对方合作的人，却如此确信自己绝不会做出这种妥协？

I've heard about these pauses. 我听说过这些停顿。

It's interesting. Well, you think 这很有趣。嗯，你认为

it's interesting to hear you say the word the other side. 听到你说“对方”这个词很有趣。

Part of my point is that Andrew Cuomo created the other side in Albany. 我的部分观点是，安德鲁·库默在奥尔巴尼制造了“对方”。

He took what would have otherwise been a democratic trifecta of Democratic control of the governor's office, the Assembly, and the state Senate and ensured that there was a Republican minority in the Senate that was in power. 他本可以拥有政治三连胜 (Trifecta: 在美国政治中，指一个政党同时控制州长办公室、州参议院和州众议院的情况。)，即民主党控制州长办公室、众议院和州参议院，但他却确保了参议院中的共和党少数派掌权。

We're talking a little bit inside baseball, but in New York, Andrew Cuomo almost 我们谈论的有点内部化，但在纽约，安德鲁·库默几乎

needed, wanted, benefited from 需要、想要、受益于

a diffusion of power that kept the Democratic and frankly the progressives in New York in check. 一种权力分散，这种分散制约了纽约的民主党人，坦白说也制约了进步主义者。

Exactly. And I I share this example. 没错。我分享这个例子。

It's almost like you spent some time in Alb 这几乎就像你在奥尔巴尼待过一段时间

as as inside baseball as it is, 尽管这很像内部行话，

but I think that's clearly because he feared an unchecked left or a left that would actually be able to deliver. 但我认为这显然是因为他害怕一个不受约束的左翼，或者一个真正能够兑现承诺的左翼。

And God forbid an unchecked left that was able to fulfill the aspirations of working people. 天知道，一个不受约束的左翼能够实现工薪阶层的愿望。

And I say this because governing will necessitate compromise. 我之所以这么说，是因为治理必然需要妥协。

There's no question about that. Some of the compromises that have been made, however, are not the ones that are actually innate to these positions and to this politics. 毫无疑问。然而，一些妥协并非这些职位和这种政治固有的。

Some of them have actually been created as a means by which to ensure that we could never fulfill the ideals that have brought so many to politics. 其中一些实际上是为了确保我们永远无法实现那些将如此多人带入政治的理想而制造出来的。

And the reason I am confident in my ability to deliver on what we have campaigned on is because of the fact one that we have campaigned on a very specific set of commitments. 我之所以对兑现我们竞选时的承诺充满信心，原因之一是我们竞选时做出了一系列非常具体的承诺。

I would argue that far more than many other campaigns New Yorkers know exactly what it is that I'm running on. 我敢说，与许多其他竞选活动相比，纽约人非常清楚我竞选的纲领是什么。

I'll have people stop me in the street and just shout fast and free buses or universal childare or freeze the rent. 我会遇到人们在街上拦住我，大声喊着“快速免费公交”、“全民儿童保育”或“冻结租金”。

Yeah. And that means that we're building a movement not around an individual but rather around these policy commitments. 是的。这意味着我们正在围绕这些政策承诺，而不是围绕个人来建立一场运动。

And that is what we will be held to account for. 而这正是我们将被追究责任的地方。

And that is something that I want because in order to bring people back to politics, in order to bring people's faith back to the idea that government could actually make their lives easier, we have to be honest about what it is we're fighting for, who we're fighting for, and then to deliver on those very things. 而这正是我想要的，因为为了让人们重拾对政治的信心，让人们重新相信政府真的能让他们的生活更轻松，我们必须诚实地说明我们为何而战，为谁而战，然后去实现这些目标。

从活动家到市长候选人的转变

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

I want to go back for just a moment to a timeline when you're kind of working your way from progressive causes into politics. 我想暂时回到你从进步事业逐步迈入政治的那个时间线。

Clearly, you've been you're inspired at this phase by Senator Bernie Sanders, this movement, this campaign he's created. 显然，在这个阶段，你受到了伯尼·桑德斯参议员、他所创造的这场运动和竞选的启发。

You run for state assembly in 2020, a really big year in American civil discourse, politics, and I wonder if you'd agree with this. 你在2020年竞选州议员，那一年是美国公民话语和政治领域非常重要的一年，我想知道你是否同意这一点。

It it feels to me looking back at that period that you're very much straddling the line still between an activist political candidate. 回顾那个时期，我感觉你仍然非常游走于活动家和政治候选人之间。

People who may someday run for mayor of New York City, for instance, tend not to go on social media and write things. 例如，那些将来可能竞选纽约市市长的人，通常不会在社交媒体上写东西。

And you know this tweet and I know it gets brought up. 你知道这条推文，我知道它会被提出来。

I think it's fair game when you wrote in 2020, "We don't need an investigation to know that the NYPD is racist, anti-quer, a major threat to public safety. 我认为，你在2020年写下“我们不需要调查就知道纽约警察局是种族主义的、反同性恋的、对公共安全构成重大威胁”是公平的。

You call for defunding the NYPD. 你呼吁削减纽约警察局的资金。

People who think they may run for mayor tend not to describe themselves ever as anti-Zionists. 那些认为自己可能竞选市长的人，通常不会自称是反犹太复国主义者。

Those things in the past would be seen potentially as disqualifying. 这些事情在过去可能会被视为取消资格的。

That clearly didn't happen in this case with you. 显然，在你身上这种情况没有发生。

But I am curious what prompted you to express those views, especially about the police at that time. 但我很好奇，当时是什么促使你表达这些观点，尤其是关于警察的。

You know, I moved to New York City when I was 7 years old. This is where I grew up. 你知道，我7岁时搬到纽约市。我在这里长大。

And one of the things that I would think about often was the necessity of safety and justice. 我经常思考的一件事就是安全和正义的必要性。

And growing up meant learning about the moments in which the chasm between those things 而成长意味着了解那些时刻，那些事物之间的鸿沟

felt as if it was only continuing to expand. 似乎还在不断扩大。

learning about the Central Park 5, growing up in the city and reading about 了解中央公园五人案，在这座城市长大并读到

the wrongly convicted 被错误定罪的

alleged 被指控的

exonerated five. 被平反的五人。

Yep. 是的。

Growing up and reading about Shawn Bell, Eric Garner. 成长过程中读到肖恩·贝尔、埃里克·加纳。

Yeah. These are victims of 是的。这些都是

police brutality. 警察暴行的受害者。

Police brutality in the city. 城市中的警察暴行。

Reading about Michael Brown. 读到迈克尔·布朗。

And then in 2020 in the year that the tweet is written, the murder of George Floyd. 然后在2020年，也就是那条推文写成的年份，乔治·弗洛伊德被谋杀。

Mhm. 嗯。

And feeling like this chasm was at the largest I'd seen it in my own life and struggling with how far apart it felt. 感觉这个鸿沟是我一生中见过的最大的一次，并且苦恼于它感觉如此遥远。

and in the time since then becoming an assembly member representing about 130,000 people in northwest Queens historia and Long Island City 自那时起，我成为一名州议员，代表皇后区西北部 Astoria 和长岛市大约13万居民，

and learning that to deliver that justice doesn't mean to do so in isolation. 并了解到实现正义并不意味着孤立地行事。

It means to still fulfill these twin necessities of safety and justice. 它意味着仍然要满足安全和正义这两项并存的需求。

And doing so means working with police officers who put their lives on the line every single day, representing Muslim New Yorkers in the district that I represent who were illegally surveiled on the basis of their faith, going so far as even to be watched when they played soccer. 这样做意味着要与每天冒着生命危险的警官合作，代表我所在选区那些因信仰而受到非法监视的穆斯林纽约人，甚至在他们踢足球时也被监视。

Mhm. 嗯。

And the black and brown New Yorkers who've been victims of police brutality. 以及那些遭受警察暴力的黑人和棕色人种纽约人。

It means representing all of the 8 and a half million people of this city and understanding the necessities of doing so while delivering safety and justice and understanding that no one thing can be or should be pursued without the other. 这意味着代表这座城市八百五十万全体市民，理解在提供安全与正义的同时这样做的必要性，并明白任何一件事都不能或不应在没有另一件事的情况下单独追求。

对警察言论的澄清与道歉

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

Let me let me fast forward a little bit to June, the primary, where you blow everyone away, all your opponents. 让我快进到六月，初选时，你击败了所有对手，让所有人大吃一惊。

And it seems like even on the night of that victory, you start to confront those who are skeptical of you and who you want to win over. 看来，即使在那场胜利之夜，你已经开始面对那些对你持怀疑态度，而你又希望争取过来的人。

And since we were just talking about police, let's talk about what you have said since the primary victory. 既然我们刚才谈到了警察，那我们来谈谈你初选胜利后所说的话。

I think it was actually at the times where my colleagues asked you about how you're going to be thinking about the police and and I was struck that you said you were prepared to apologize to the NYPD for some of the things you had said defund the 我想那实际上是在《泰晤士报》的一次采访中，我的同事问你将如何看待警察，令我震惊的是你说你准备向纽约警察局道歉，因为你曾说过一些关于削减其资金的言论，

allegation that the department is racist. 以及指控该部门是种族主义者的说法。

Given what you just said about the experiences you recollect, why issue that apology and what would the apology even be? 鉴于你刚才回忆的那些经历，为什么要发出那样的道歉？道歉内容又会是什么？

The issuing of it is to reckon with the fact that it's language that I'm applying to officers 发出这个道歉是为了正视一个事实，那就是我将这种言语用在了警官身上，

when in fact what I'm speaking about are specific practices. 而实际上我谈论的是具体的做法。

And when I've met officers, not only over the course of being an assembly person, but also running for mayor, understanding that behind every caricature, behind every headline is a New Yorker trying to do their best. 当我遇到警官时，不仅在我担任议员期间，也在竞选市长期间，我明白每个漫画形象背后，每个头条新闻背后，都是一个努力做到最好的纽约人。

and those meetings, those conversations, those are some of the ones I've appreciated the most where I've shared an apology for the language that I've used and a desire to continue to fulfill those same ideals of safety and of justice and to do so together. 那些会面、那些对话，是我最珍视的一些经历，我在其中为我曾使用的语言表达了歉意，并表达了继续共同实现安全与正义这些相同理想的愿望。

Are you apologizing for the language or for the thinking behind it? 你是在为言语道歉，还是为言语背后的思想道歉？

And I don't I'm not trying to be academic about this, but do you still think that the NYPD as an institution is racist? 我不是想咬文嚼字，但你仍然认为纽约警察局作为一个机构是种族主义的吗？

No. And and I'm what I'm apologizing is for the language that I've used and also doing so as someone who is cleareyed about the necessity 不。我道歉的是我所使用的语言，同时我也是一个对必要性有着清晰认识的人，

of still fulfilling those two things. 即仍然要实现那两件事。

Mhm. Let me turn to the rest of your outreach which has been really striking. 嗯。我们来谈谈你其他的宣传工作，这确实引人注目。

I mean, let's turn to developers and to frankly the super rich in New York and business leaders. 我的意思是，我们来看看纽约的开发商、超级富豪和商界领袖。

You've been openly skeptical of the role of developers. 你一直公开质疑开发商的角色。

For example, you have said you don't think billionaires should exist. 例如，你曾说你不认为亿万富翁应该存在。

Last night at your rally, you said that your movement is an existential threat to billionaires 昨晚在你的集会上，你说你的运动对亿万富翁构成了生存威胁，

who think that they can buy an election. 他们以为可以买下一次选举。

Full quote. 完整引用。

You got to you got to 你得你得

you got to fill the you got to You're right. You can't do the 你必须填补你必须你说的对。你不能做

accurately. That's what I wrote down. Maybe I missed the full sense. 准确地。我就是这么记下来的。也许我没完全理解。

Um, and you would like to increase taxes on those making over a million dollars a year to pay for things like the the three big promises 嗯，你希望对年收入超过一百万美元的人增税，以支付例如三大承诺等开支，

by 2%. And yet you're meeting with many of these people at their offices, at their homes in some cases. 增加2%。然而，你却在他们的办公室，有时甚至在他们的家里，与许多这些人会面。

What have you said to those leaders in your meetings with them? And what have they said to you? 在与这些领导人的会面中，你对他们说了什么？他们又对你说了什么？

I've said many of the same things that I'm saying at these rallies, out on the street, in these conversations, which is that I continue to believe that 我在这些集会、街头和对话中说的很多话，都是我一直在说的，那就是我仍然相信，

two of the most straightforward and productive ways to raise revenue to fund a significant part of our affordability agenda and the need to trump the city are by, as you said, 筹集收入以资助我们可负担性议程的重要部分，以及提升城市（Trump-proof, 即不受特朗普影响）的两种最直接有效的方式，正如你所说，是：

Trump proof, we'll get back to that. “防特朗普”，我们稍后会回到这一点。

Yes. are by increasing personal income taxes on the top 1% of New Yorkers. New Yorkers make a million dollars a year or more by 2%. 是的。是通过将纽约前1%高收入人群（年收入一百万美元或以上）的个人所得税提高2%。

And by increasing the state's top corporate tax rate from 7.25% to match that of New Jersey, 11.5%. 以及将州最高企业税率从7.25%提高到与新泽西州相同的11.5%。

The socialist utopia 社会主义乌托邦

of New Jersey. 新泽西。

Socialist utopia of New Jersey. 新泽西的社会主义乌托邦。

Yes. Um, 是的。嗯，

you were joking about that, just to be clear. 你刚才是在开玩笑，只是为了澄清一下。

And what I've appreciated about these conversations is that everyone knows exactly where I stand on these fiscal policies. 我欣赏这些对话的地方在于，每个人都清楚我在这些财政政策上的立场。

And I'm looking to have a conversation both about why I believe in these fiscal policies, but also that a disagreement on those policies should not preclude us from looking for agreements elsewhere. 我希望进行一场对话，不仅关于我为何相信这些财政政策，还希望即使在这些政策上存在分歧，也不应妨碍我们在其他方面寻求共识。

I mean, it feels like what you're saying to these business leaders is, look, I'm going to be making changes to the system, but I'm not turning New York City, this center of American capitalism, into a socialist utopia. 我的意思是，你对这些商业领袖说的话，听起来像是：“听着，我将改变这个系统，但我不会把纽约市，这个美国资本主义的中心，变成一个社会主义乌托邦。”

If I if I'm kind of hearing you correctly, 如果我理解得没错的话，

I'm I'm and I'm 我我我

Let me just get specific about about about a particular policy and I want to understand your fidelity to it. 让我具体谈谈一个特定的政策，我想了解你对它的忠诚度。

The idea of what is being called a millionaire's tax, 2% tax on income over a million dollars, which is which feels very central to your agenda, felt very integral to the campaign in the primary. 所谓“富豪税”的理念，即对超过一百万美元的收入征收2%的税，这在你的议程中显得非常核心，在初选竞选中也显得非常重要。

Since the primary, my sense, please correct me if I'm wrong, is that you've expressed an openness, and I don't know if this flowed from your conversations with business leaders to fund your agenda 自初选以来，我的感觉（如果我错了请纠正我）是你表达了一种开放态度，而且我不知道这是否源于你与商界领袖的对话，即在那种税收之外为你的议程筹集资金。

outside of that kind of attacks. 而不是通过那种攻击性手段。

And and you know this, and our listeners may not as well, New York and New York City are funky. 而且你知道，我们的听众可能不知道，纽约州和纽约市的情况很特殊。

The governor and the state legislature control all taxes, but property tax. 州长和州立法机构控制着除房产税之外的所有税收。

And the two taxes you just mentioned therefore require the participation of the governor who says she does not want to participate in these so far and the state legislature. 因此，你刚才提到的两种税收需要州长的参与，而她迄今为止表示不愿参与，也需要州立法机构的参与。

So you seem to now be saying it doesn't necessarily matter where the money comes from. 所以你现在似乎在说，钱从哪里来不一定重要。

But for democratic socialists and for this agenda that you are an avatar of, isn't taxing the rich more 但对于民主社会主义者以及你所代表的这个议程来说，对富人征收更多的税

as a principle important? Isn't the method here important or are you being more pragmatic about it? 作为一项原则难道不重要吗？这里的方法难道不重要吗？还是你对此更加务实？

If you look at the chronology of the campaign, 如果你看看竞选的时间线，

the first thing we speak about is what we are looking to fund. 我们首先谈论的是我们希望资助什么。

October 23rd when we launched the campaign, we talk about freezing the rent for rent stabilized tenants, making buses fast and free, delivering universal childare. 10月23日，当我们启动竞选时，我们谈论的是为租金稳定化的租户冻结租金，让公交车快速免费，以及提供全民儿童保育。

The most important thing is always the policies themselves. 最重要的始终是政策本身。

And I continue to believe as a principle that it's important to have a fair system of taxation. 我仍然坚信，从原则上讲，拥有一个公平的税收制度很重要。

And I do not think the one that we have is an example of that. 而且我不认为我们现有的制度就是公平的典范。

And to me, it is always and has always been the case that far more important than the means by which you fund something is the fact that you are in fact funding it. 对我来说，资助某事的方式远不如你确实资助了它这一事实重要，这一点始终如此。

And so I still think that these two tax proposals are the most straightforward and productive ways to do so. 所以我仍然认为，这两个税收提案是实现这一目标最直接有效的方式。

There are other revenue proposals that also exist that have been put forward. 还有其他已经提出的收入提案。

There's also the fact that I have sat in Albany year after year 还有一个事实是，我年复一年地坐在奥尔巴尼，

and watched 看着

and watched as we've been told the receipts we estimated they're actually going to be bigger this year than we thought. 眼睁睁看着我们被告知，我们估计的收入实际上会比我们想象的要多。

And if there is a proposal that the $4 billion we would raise from one of these taxes from the personal income tax increase can be found elsewhere, I'm not going to fight to bring it back to the original means that I suggested. 如果有一个提案能让通过个人所得税增加而从这些税收中筹集的40亿美元能在其他地方找到，我不会去争取把它带回我最初建议的方式。

I'm going to fight to ensure that that $4 billion is then used to fund a significant portion of universal childare. 我将努力确保这40亿美元被用于资助全民儿童保育的很大一部分。

And I think that always has to be what drives us, that we are funding the affordability agenda, not the question of how. 我认为这必须始终是驱动我们的动力，即我们正在资助可负担性议程，而不是关于如何资助的问题。

And I do believe these are the two most straightforward ways to do so. 我确实相信这是实现这一目标最直接的两种方式。

Right. So the method does matter, but it doesn't have to be 没错。所以方法确实重要，但它不一定非得是

this method that gets there. I mean, it it does strike me that you're already starting to confront some of the challenges that 这种方法才能达到目的。我的意思是，这确实让我觉得你已经开始面对一些挑战，

when you talk about Cuomo, you found distasteful, which is, you know, you're dealing with a Democratic governor who isn't on the same page with you. 当你谈到库默时，你觉得他令人反感，也就是说，你正在与一位与你意见不合的民主党州长打交道。

And that's that's an immediate kind of like 那就像是一种直接的

old versus DSA mom donnie. 旧派对阵DSA的马马尼。

I would contrast governor with with Governor Cuomo in that Cuomo 我将州长与库默州长进行对比，库默州长

almost made it his mission to go to war with New York City. 几乎把与纽约市开战当作自己的使命。

Mhm. 嗯。

He would cut so much of what he could find in what the state was funding across these five burrows. 他会削减州政府在这五个行政区能找到的许多资助项目。

And when Bill Delasio ran on a promise of universal prek and the necessity of working with Albany to find the funding for that program, Governor Cuomo was one of the chief obstacles to it. 当比尔·德拉西奥以普及学前教育的承诺以及与奥尔巴尼合作寻找该项目资金的必要性进行竞选时，库默州长是其主要障碍之一。

Right. 没错。

And what I found is that though Governor Hokll and I have a disagreement as to the necessity of taxing the wealthiest New Yorkers, the most profitable corporations, we have a clear agreement on the importance of universal childare. 我发现，尽管霍克尔州长和我在向最富有的纽约人、最赚钱的公司征税的必要性上存在分歧，但我们在全民儿童保育的重要性上却有明确的共识。

And to me that is the kind of agreement that was missing under the previous leader of the state because so often he was the obstacle to any affirmative vision of what government could be doing for working people. 对我来说，这种共识正是前任州领导人执政期间所缺乏的，因为他常常是政府能为工薪阶层做些什么的任何积极愿景的障碍。

与犹太社区的对话：以色列-巴勒斯坦问题

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

Then there's the Jewish community as we as we kind of tick through the folks that you have been meeting with and you end up in rooms where people have been challenging you directly sometimes emotionally is my sense. 然后是犹太社区，当我们逐一列举你曾会见过的人时，你会发现你最终会出现在一些房间里，那里的人们直接挑战你，有时甚至带有情感色彩，这是我的感觉。

I'm thinking about Dr. Albert Borilla, CEO of Fizer, our colleagues, reported on your conversation with him. 我想到辉瑞公司的首席执行官阿尔伯特·布尔拉博士，我们的同事曾报道过你与他的对话。

He's the son of Holocaust survivors, and he pleads with you to stop calling what's been happening in Gaza up until now there's now a ceasefire a genocide, which is what you call it, and he pushed for you to condemn this phrase 他是大屠杀幸存者的儿子，他恳求你停止将加沙迄今为止发生的事情（现在已经停火）称为“种族灭绝”，而你就是这样称呼的，他还敦促你谴责这个短语：

globalizing and tifata because in his mind, it raises a spectre of violence against Jews. “全球化和起义”，因为在他看来，这会引发对犹太人的暴力幽灵。

My sense is that in these conversations you've you've given some ground on things like Koblies and Tifat not on genocide 我的感觉是，在这些对话中，你在“科布利斯和提法特”之类的问题上有所让步，但在“种族灭绝”问题上没有。

and I wonder what you've come to understand about the perspective of people like Dr. Bura and and Jews in general in New York who are in the same way perhaps that police were grappling with what you were saying about them 我很好奇，你对像布拉博士这样的人以及纽约的犹太人普遍持有的观点有了怎样的理解，他们可能就像警察一样，正在努力理解你对他们的看法，

grappling with the way you talk about Israel. 努力理解你谈论以色列的方式。

I would distinguish one piece in that my use of the term genocide is not a personal opinion rather it's a reflection of findings by 我想区分一点，我使用“种族灭绝”一词并非个人意见，而是反映了

institutions even of genocide scholars themselves institutions like the United Nations 包括种族灭绝学者本身在内的机构，以及联合国等机构的调查结果。

and 而且

it is a word that reflects what has been happening in Gaza 这个词反映了加沙正在发生的事情。

And 而且

these conversations that I've been having both since the primary, but also frankly prior to the primary, 我自初选以来，坦白说，在初选之前也一直在进行的这些对话，

have been illuminating for me in both having an opportunity to meet many New Yorkers, especially Jewish New Yorkers, for whom their only impression of me was through a caricature, whether it be a caricature. 对我来说都很有启发性，因为我既有机会见到许多纽约人，尤其是犹太裔纽约人，他们对我唯一的印象是通过漫画，无论是哪种漫画。

What was that caricature, do you think? 你觉得那幅漫画是什么样的？

Well, you know, I had the distinct pleasure of having around $30 million spent against me in the primary, and it was $30 million that was spent in mailers, in TV ads. 嗯，你知道，我在初选中“有幸”被花费了大约3000万美元来反对我，这3000万美元花在了邮件宣传和电视广告上。

I saw some of those mailers. They were some of them were rather vivid. 我看到了一些那样的宣传邮件。其中一些相当生动。

There there was a mailer sent by Andrew Cuomo super PAC that artificially lengthened my beard. 有一封由安德鲁·库默超级政治行动委员会寄出的邮件，它人工地拉长了我的胡子。

And there was another mailer sent by another candidate. 还有一封由另一位候选人寄出的邮件。

So So that you were more menacingly 所以，你变得更具威胁性

Yes. 是的。

something. and and it specifically chose to feature a photo of me in a korta. 某种东西。而且它特意选择了一张我穿着库尔塔（一种南亚传统服装）的照片。

And there was another mailer sent by another candidate that 还有另一位候选人寄来的邮件，

implied I was going to kill Jewish New Yorkers. 暗示我要杀害纽约的犹太人。

Part of the earlier conversation we were having about the Democratic party. 我们之前关于民主党的部分对话。

Mhm. 嗯。

These are mailers that were sent in a Democratic primary. 这些是在民主党初选中发送的邮件。

And so if you're a Jewish New Yorker and you're receiving these kinds of mailers, you're opening an article that you're reading and you're reading this kind of a caricature of me. 所以，如果你是一名犹太裔纽约人，收到这类邮件，你打开一篇文章，读到这种对我的漫画式描述。

I do not begrudge skepticism. I do not begrudge concern. 我不会介意怀疑。我不会介意担忧。

And 而且

what I've appreciated about these conversations is an opportunity to share who I am and the opinions and thoughts and commitments that may be in disagreement with those on the other end of the table, but at the very least can show that these are thoughts that are built on a belief in a universal system of human rights. 我欣赏这些对话的地方在于，它们提供了一个机会，让我分享我是谁，我的观点、想法和承诺，这些可能与桌子另一端的人意见相左，但至少能表明这些想法是建立在对普遍人权体系的信念之上的。

It's the opportunity to make clear that, you know, I've I've had a number of Jewish New Yorkers ask me, 这是一个澄清的机会，你知道，我曾有几位犹太裔纽约人问我，

you've said you recognize Israel right to exist, but you won't recognize its right to exist as a Jewish state. 你说你承认以色列的生存权，但你不承认它作为犹太国家的生存权。

Would that be the case for 那对

Saudi Arabia? And I've said absolutely it would be because my belief 沙特阿拉伯也适用吗？我回答说，绝对是的，因为我的信念

So your objections remain equal. Yes. 所以你的反对意见仍然是一样的。是的。

For any Saudi Arabia, UAE as they do to Israel. for any state, I'm not going to recognize its right to be a state with a hierarchy of citizenship on the basis whether it be of religion or race. 对于任何沙特阿拉伯、阿联酋，就像他们对以色列一样。对于任何国家，我不会承认它有权成为一个基于宗教或种族而设立公民等级的国家。

And part of that is because especially as an American thinking of the importance of a state which enshrines equal rights within it 部分原因在于，尤其作为一名美国人，我考虑到一个国家必须在其内部确立平等权利的重要性，

and to make clear that my critiques of Israel are critiques that I would hold for any other state violating any one of these other international laws. 并明确指出，我对以色列的批评，同样适用于任何其他违反这些国际法之一的国家。

And the focus 而关注点

that I and many other New Yorkers have had on the question specifically of Israel's violations of these international human rights is also in part because of our unique complicity as Americans in those violations. 我和许多其他纽约人特别关注以色列违反这些国际人权的问题，部分原因也在于作为美国人，我们对这些侵犯行为负有独特的共谋责任。

You mean because of the American funding of the war in Gaza 你的意思是，因为美国资助了加沙战争

and prior to that and the nature of sending, you know, $4 billion a year every year prior to this. 以及在此之前，每年都会输送，你知道的，每年40亿美元的资金。

One of your critiques of the Democratic Party, it feels worth mentioning this here is Pep progressive except for for Palestinians 你对民主党的一个批评，我觉得值得在这里提一下，就是“除了巴勒斯坦人，其他都进步”，

and I think given your last answer, I I understand the argument there that democratic elected officials have in your estimation excluded Palestinians from their sense of a kind of global universal justice. 我认为鉴于你刚才的回答，我理解其中的论点，即在你看来，民主党民选官员已将巴勒斯坦人排除在全球普遍正义的范畴之外。

You well understand that previous mayors to you have not put the same emphasis on Palestinian rights and have I'm thinking in the case of Mike Bloomberg personally donated tremendous amounts of money to social services in Israel or in the case of Mayor Adams visited Israel. 你很清楚，在你之前的市长们并没有对巴勒斯坦人的权利给予同样的重视，而且，我想起迈克·布隆伯格曾个人向以色列的社会服务机构捐赠了巨额资金，或者亚当斯市长访问了以色列。

Mayor Adams ran in 2021 with a promise that he would retire in the Golden Heights 亚当斯市长在2021年竞选时承诺他将在戈兰高地退休。

occupied. He he not only visited Israel, he met with settlement leaders and came back promising to increase cooperation with them. 被占领的。他不仅访问了以色列，还与定居点领导人会面，回来后承诺增加与他们的合作。

Well, we're at this really interesting moment. There's now a ceasefire, potentially a peace process. 嗯，我们正处在一个非常有趣的时刻。现在已经停火了，可能还会有一个和平进程。

And because of that history of the way New York City mayors have treated Israel, 鉴于纽约市市长对待以色列的历史，

because I I take the critique of journalists when people say he's running for mayor, not for leader of the free world, not for envoy to the Middle East. 因为我接受记者们的批评，当人们说他是在竞选市长，而不是自由世界的领导人，也不是中东特使。

But I am curious since you raised it and since Jewish New Yorkers ask you, including at Temple Beth Ethohim, I think on Sunday, which version of Israel you can support 但我很好奇，既然你提到了，而且犹太裔纽约人也问你，包括我想是周日在贝斯·埃托希姆犹太教堂，你支持哪个版本的以色列，

because of your profound critique of Israel. 因为你对以色列的深刻批判。

I am curious if you can be a little specific because we are now in that moment where potentially a new Middle East may be born. 我很好奇你是否能更具体一些，因为我们现在正处于一个可能诞生新中东的时刻。

Is there a version of Israel that you could be comfortable with and maybe even as almost all mayors have in the past 有没有一个版本的以色列是你能够接受的，甚至像过去几乎所有市长那样

visit? 访问？

I've said and I and I continue to believe that one need not visit Israel to stand up for Jewish New Yorkers. 我曾说过，并且我仍然相信，一个人无需访问以色列就能为纽约的犹太人发声。

And I've also said in the question of visiting countries outside of ours that my focus is going to be on New York City. 我还说过，在访问我们国家之外的国家这个问题上，我的重心将放在纽约市。

And 而且

my belief whether it be for Israel and Palestine or anywhere across the world is the importance of equal rights as part of any future that we're fighting for. 我的信念，无论是对以色列和巴勒斯坦，还是世界任何地方，都是平等权利的重要性，将其作为我们为之奋斗的任何未来的一部分。

And 而且

as you said, I am running to be the mayor of the city. 正如你所说，我正在竞选这座城市的市长。

And I also know to your point that there are millions of New Yorkers, myself included, who care deeply about Israel and Palestine. 而且我也知道，正如你所指出的，有数百万纽约人，包括我自己，都非常关心以色列和巴勒斯坦。

And my desire is to be a mayor who is both clear in my belief in universal human rights, the necessity of extending those beliefs of freedom and safety and justice and equality to all people, and that that must also include 我的愿望是成为一位市长，他既明确坚信普世人权，坚信有必要将自由、安全、正义和平等的信念推广到所有人，而且这其中也必须包括

Palestinians. 巴勒斯坦人。

and that my job in leading the city is to embody that shared sense of humanity. 而且我领导这座城市的职责是体现这种共同的人性。

I'm hearing you say an injustice anywhere is essentially an injustice to everywhere, to everything. 我听你说的意思是，任何地方的不公正本质上都是对所有地方、对所有事物的不公正。

Yes, I I would say that that's correct. 是的，我会说那是正确的。

And and I think what's what's been gling to many in this city has been the ability to be blind to certain injustices. 而且我认为，这座城市中许多人感到困扰的是，他们对某些不公正现象视而不见。

We have a mayor right now 我们现在有一位市长

who has often been blind to the suffering of many in this city, especially I would say Palestinian New Yorkers. 他常常对这座城市中许多人的苦难视而不见，尤其是，我想说，巴勒斯坦裔纽约人。

I met a Palestinian New Yorker from Bay Ridge about two weeks ago. It's an older man walked with a cane. 大约两周前，我在湾脊区遇到一位巴勒斯坦裔纽约人。他是一位拄着拐杖的老人。

Mhm. 嗯。

We were having chai in Atoria 我们在阿斯托利亚喝茶

and he told me how he'd lived in this city for decades. He's from Gaza and for decades he worked to save up to build a house in Gaza. 他告诉我，他在这座城市住了几十年。他来自加沙，几十年来努力存钱在加沙盖了一所房子。

Mhm. 嗯。

And he built that house and it was the pride and joy of his life. And the Israeli military destroyed that house in one minute. 他建了那所房子，那是他一生的骄傲和喜悦。而以色列军队在一分钟内摧毁了那所房子。

And in the rubble of that house lay the dreams that he had held for decades. 在那所房子的废墟中，埋藏着他几十年的梦想。

And how his son and his grandkids were in Gaza, continue to be in Gaza today. 他的儿子和孙子们当时在加沙，今天仍然在加沙。

And he told me about how his son called him the other week and said, 他告诉我，他儿子上周给他打电话说，

"Listen, listen to my son." He gave the phone over to this man's grandchild and the grandchild said, "I'm hungry. Can you send me anything?" “听着，听我儿子说。”他把电话递给了这位老人的孙子，孙子说：“我饿了。你能给我寄点什么吗？”

And this man had to grapple with the fact that there was nothing more he could send. There was no way he could reach out. 而这位老人不得不面对一个事实：他再也无法寄送任何东西了。他无法与他们取得联系。

This is a New Yorker. 这是一个纽约人。

I'm just noting the emotion in your voice here. 我只是注意到你声音中的情感。

it because I think there's no other way to respond to to this kind of despair and to hold this despair and say that as the mayor of your city, I see what you are struggling through and the very least you deserve as someone who looks at you with the full humanity you deserve. 因为我认为没有其他方式可以回应这种绝望，并承受这种绝望，然后说，作为你城市的市长，我看到了你正在经历的挣扎，而你至少应该得到的是，一个以你应得的充分人性看待你的人。

And that's what I want to bring is as a real belief in a shared sense of humanity for all because for far too long there have been exceptions that have been carved out. 而我想要带来的是对全人类共同人性的真正信念，因为长期以来，一直存在着被特殊对待的例外情况。

[Music] [音乐]

We'll be right back. 我们马上回来。

应对特朗普的潜在报复

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

Even if you're able to convince all these constituencies that you are the right candidate to be mayor in this general election, a safe candidate, more than safe, desirable, 即使你能够说服所有这些选民，你是在这次大选中担任市长的合适候选人，一个安全的候选人，甚至不仅仅是安全，而是令人向往的，

the argument can be made that there is because of President Trump something profoundly unsafe in theory about your election, entirely out of your control, which is that if you're elected, and Trump said this, he'll target New York, he'll target you. 有人可能会争辩说，由于特朗普总统的存在，你的当选在理论上存在某种深层的不安全因素，这完全超出了你的控制，那就是如果你当选，特朗普说过，他会针对纽约，针对你。

The pretense might be crime. It might be illegal immigration. 借口可能是犯罪。也可能是非法移民。

I think you've used this word. It's an inevitability if you become elected. 我想你用过这个词。如果你当选，这是不可避免的。

Can you understand why that might be a complicating factor in people's decision to vote for you? 你能理解为什么这可能是人们投票给你的一个复杂因素吗？

As unfair as it would be to you, what I've described as inevitability is Donald Trump's desire to send the National Guard to New York City. 尽管这对你不公平，但我所说的“不可避免”是指唐纳德·特朗普希望向纽约市派遣国民警卫队。

And what I would say to those who would say this argument, whomever they may be, 而对于那些持这种论点的人，无论他们是谁，

wherever they may be, 无论他们身在何处，

whatever former governor, 无论哪位前州长，

whatever former governor, whoever you know, Andrew Coma living in Westchester may be, um, is that 无论哪位前州长，无论你认识的住在威彻斯特的安德鲁·科莫是谁，嗯，是这样：

Donald Trump is not waiting for me to be the mayor to enact this kind of political retribution. 唐纳德·特朗普不会等到我当上市长才实施这种政治报复。

He had arguably the most collaborative mayor he could find in Eric Adams. 他可以说找到了埃里克·亚当斯这样最合作的市长。

And even with that mayor, he pulled $80 million out of a city bank account. 即使有这位市长，他还是从市银行账户中抽走了8000万美元。

He suspended $50 million in funding because the city refused to give up, 他暂停了5000万美元的资金，因为市政府拒绝放弃，

but kept the National Guard at bay. 但阻止了国民警卫队的介入。

Yes. While 是的。同时

looking to suspend $18 billion in federal infrastructure funding in no small part 寻求暂停180亿美元的联邦基础设施资金，这在很大程度上

because of Democrats at the national level refusing to allow him to throw 4 million Americans off of their healthcare. 是因为国家层面的民主党人拒绝允许他将400万美国人从他们的医疗保健计划中剔除。

My point being that retribution is not something that will only appear in this city by virtue of my being mayor. 我的意思是，报复并非仅仅因为我担任市长才会在这个城市出现。

It's already a feature of what it looks like to live on in Donald Trump's America. 这已经是生活在唐纳德·特朗普的美国的一个特征了。

And what we've seen, whether it be in his first administration or now in his second administration, is that Donald Trump, if you want to stand up to him, the first thing you have to do is be able to actually be willing to fight him. 我们所看到的，无论是在他的第一任政府还是现在的第二任政府中，都是唐纳德·特朗普，如果你想对抗他，首先你必须真正愿意与他战斗。

And what we have in this moment is not just my campaign, but Andrew Cuomo's, which is one that is so unable to stand up to him in large part because of the fact that he knows his narrow path to city hall is paved by the very donors who gave us Donald Trump's second term, which is why there's there's overlap. 而我们目前所面临的，不仅是我的竞选，还有安德鲁·库默的竞选，后者之所以无法对抗他，很大程度上是因为他知道自己通往市政厅的狭窄道路是由那些促成唐纳德·特朗普第二任期的捐助者铺就的，这就是为什么两者之间存在重叠。

When he was asked would he condemn Donald Trump for the weaponization of justice in the prosecution of Attorney General Tish James, he said condemn him for what? 当他被问及是否会谴责唐纳德·特朗普在起诉司法部长蒂什·詹姆斯一案中将司法武器化时，他反问“谴责他什么？”

He released a statement on the weaponization that refused to name either Donald Trump or Tish James. 他发布了一份关于武器化的声明，但拒绝点名唐纳德·特朗普或蒂什·詹姆斯。

And so my my point being there already exists retribution here in this city the likes of which that has immense consequences. 所以我的意思是，这座城市已经存在着那种后果极其严重的报复。

We have a candidate who is running on the promise of being able to stand up to Trump while he can't even name him. 我们有一位候选人，他以能够对抗特朗普的承诺参选，但他甚至不敢直呼特朗普的名字。

And what I will do is no doubt face these kinds of threats, including those that have been made about deporting me, arresting me, 我无疑将面临这些威胁，包括那些关于驱逐我、逮捕我、

denaturalizing me. 剥夺我公民身份的威胁。

I will face them knowing that just by virtue of Donald Trump saying something, it doesn't make it law. 我将面对它们，知道仅仅因为唐纳德·特朗普说了什么，并不能使其成为法律。

What actually makes it law is when we go through the court system. 真正使其成为法律的是当我们通过法院系统。

And what we've seen is a approach in California where the attorney general, the mayor of LA, the governor of the state came together to file a lawsuit that where a federal judge recently found in their favor the deployment of the National Guard was illegal. 我们看到加州采取了一种做法，那里的司法部长、洛杉矶市长和州长联合提起诉讼，联邦法官最近裁定他们胜诉，认为国民警卫队的部署是非法的。

And also an attorney general who found that for every dollar that they spent on legal fees, they were able to recover more than 30,000 in federal funds that would have otherwise been stripped of them. 还有一位司法部长发现，他们每花一美元的法律费用，就能收回超过三万美元的联邦资金，否则这些资金将被剥夺。

Ultimately, a major reason why Trump might intervene in New York would be part of an ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement: 美国移民及海关执法局，负责执行美国移民法，包括边境安全、移民执法和遣返。) campaign to round up and deport undocumented immigrants. 最终，特朗普可能干预纽约的一个主要原因，将是美国移民及海关执法局 (Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE: 负责执行美国移民法，包括边境安全、移民执法和遣返。) 旨在围捕和驱逐无证移民的行动的一部分。

That's been an argument pretense he's made in several places where the National Guard eventually comes. 这曾是他多次在国民警卫队最终抵达的地方提出的借口。

There are an estimated 400,000 undocumented immigrants in New York. 纽约估计有40万无证移民。

And as you found as you ran this primary that was so successful and you met with many Trumpup supporting New Yorkers who have turned around and supported you is that their viewpoint on these issues is complicated and many of them have serious objections to the level of undocumented immigration in a place like New York City. 正如你在成功竞选初选时所发现的，你遇到了许多曾支持特朗普但现在转而支持你的纽约人，他们对这些问题的看法很复杂，其中许多人对纽约市无证移民的数量持有严重异议。

But I don't hear from your campaign that you're going to be participating in any Trump-led effort to detain, deport undocumented immigrants. 但我没有从你的竞选团队那里听到，你会参与任何由特朗普主导的拘留、驱逐无证移民的行动。

Why not? 为什么不？

I'm not looking to assist Donald Trump in his attempt to fulfill his campaign promise to create the single largest deportation force in American history. 我不想协助唐纳德·特朗普实现他竞选时的承诺，即建立美国历史上规模最大的驱逐部队。

I'm not looking to do so because even if you know that some of your maybe perhaps many of your supporters do want illegal immigration to be treated differently than it has. 我不想这样做，因为即使你知道你的一些，甚至可能是很多支持者确实希望非法移民问题得到不同于以往的处理。

What I've heard from my supporters and what I've heard from New Yorkers, frankly, is a desire for dignity. 坦白说，我从我的支持者和纽约人那里听到的是对尊严的渴望。

And in looking at what ICE's presence has been in New York City, what it has meant for our city, seeing at the very least an absence of that, and in fact an attack not only on the question of dignity, by the very fabric of the city, right? 审视美国移民及海关执法局 (ICE: 负责执行美国移民法，包括边境安全、移民执法和遣返。) 在纽约市的存在，它对我们城市意味着什么，至少看到它的缺失，实际上是对尊严问题的攻击，更是对城市肌理的攻击，对吗？

Where there are New Yorkers I know of who took down the numbers on every apartment on their floor so that ICE wouldn't know where anyone lived. 我认识一些纽约人，他们把他们楼层每间公寓的门牌号都拆掉了，这样ICE就不知道谁住在哪里了。

Wow. I spoke to a Dominican barber shop owner in Harlem who told me that all of his barbers have legal status and they are terrified of coming to work. 哇。我采访了哈莱姆区一位多米尼加理发店老板，他告诉我他所有的理发师都有合法身份，但他们都害怕来上班。

A general sense of the hollowing out of the immigrant hubs of this city. 这座城市的移民中心普遍存在空心化现象。

And no, I'm not going to help Donald Trump in doing so. 不，我不会帮助唐纳德·特朗普这样做。

I'm in fact going to fight Donald Trump when he looks to tear families apart. 事实上，当唐纳德·特朗普试图拆散家庭时，我将与他抗争。

And I'm going to do so because I know what the stakes are. 我之所以这样做，是因为我知道这事关重大。

When when he detains a six-year-old girl from Queens and deports her, I know that her principal is writing a letter to ICE saying, "Please don't do this." 当他拘留一名来自皇后区的六岁女孩并驱逐她时，我知道她的校长正在给ICE写信说：“请不要这样做。”

I mean, here you're saying the method can't be separated from the goal, and you're rejecting the method because you're rejecting the goal. 我的意思是，你在这里说方法不能与目标分离，你拒绝这种方法是因为你拒绝这个目标。

I mean, that's that's very clear. 我的意思是，这非常清楚。

I I think also I reject the goal. 我认为我也拒绝这个目标。

It's not just the the manner in which this detention is happening. It's the fact that the the goal here is cruelty. 这不仅仅是这种拘留发生的方式。事实是，这里的目标是残忍。

The goal is to rip these families apart and the goal is to attack so much of what is the foundation of this city as an immigrant city. 目标是拆散这些家庭，目标是攻击这座城市作为移民城市的基础。

Would you ever meet with President Trump in the hope that you could defang this person, this president who may have ill will toward you, but frankly doesn't really know you at all. 你是否会与特朗普总统会面，希望能够削弱这个人，这位总统可能对你怀有恶意，但坦白说根本不了解你。

Absolutely. I will meet with President Trump. 当然会。我会和特朗普总统会面。

I think it's incumbent upon any mayor of this city to meet with the president of the country. 我认为任何一位城市市长都有责任会见国家总统。

What I won't do is work with President Trump at the expense of the city. 我不会做的是以牺牲城市利益为代价与特朗普总统合作。

That's that's the critique that I've made of of Andrew Cuomo and of Eric Adams is that their conversations with Trump have more to do with themselves than to do with the people of the city. 这就是我对安德鲁·库默和埃里克·亚当斯的批评，即他们与特朗普的对话更多是关于他们自己，而不是关于这座城市的人民。

It's not that they're talking, 不是说他们在交谈，

it's that who are they talking to him about. 而是他们和他在谈论谁。

愿景与挑战：一场新时代的运动

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

I want to end this conversation on the movement that you've quite clearly created in New York City. 我想以你显然在纽约市创建的这场运动来结束这次对话。

It's a movement we saw on vivid display last night that argues that the democratic politics of the modern era, the old formulas, I that word resonated last night when you said it, have failed and that you can replace it with something new. 这是一场我们昨晚生动展现的运动，它认为现代民主政治的旧模式（你昨晚说这个词时引起了共鸣）已经失败，而你可以用新的东西取而代之。

And in your speech at this rally we all went to, you likened it to the great movements of American history, civil rights movement, the movement for labor rights that created the modern weekend where workers can take a break, the New Deal and the birth of the social safety net. 在我们都参加的这次集会上，你在演讲中将其比作美国历史上的伟大运动：民权运动、创造了现代周末让工人得以休息的劳工权利运动，以及罗斯福新政和社会保障网络的诞生。

That sets expectations pretty high. I'm not sure you can get much higher and there's nobility in that and there's real risk in that. 这设定了非常高的期望。我不确定你还能达到多高，这其中有高尚之处，也有真正的风险。

And so do you worry that it will be hard to deliver on those expectations? 那么你是否担心很难兑现这些期望？

You're pretty new to management on this scale. 你对这种规模的管理还相当陌生。

And if it's impossible or even really difficult to deliver, what does it do to this movement? 如果它无法实现，甚至非常难以实现，那会对这场运动造成什么影响？

I'm glad I won't have to answer the hypothetical because I fully intend to deliver and we have to. 我很高兴不必回答这个假设性问题，因为我完全打算兑现承诺，而且我们必须这样做。

We came to these policies, to these commitments not because of a poll that we commissioned or a consultant that we sat with. 我们制定这些政策、做出这些承诺，并非因为我们委托的民意调查，也不是因为我们咨询的顾问。

In fact, the polls said that you should focus on public safety. 事实上，民意调查显示你应该关注公共安全。

Not also had me tied with someone else. 也没有让我与其他人束手无策。

Literally, 字面上，

literally anybody else and I beat that guy. 字面上的任何人，我击败了那个人。

But I I I I say this to say that it's New Yorkers who told us it was housing. 但我这么说，是为了表明是纽约人告诉我们住房问题很重要。

It's New Yorkers who told us it was childare. It's New Yorkers who told us it was the slowest buses in America. 是纽约人告诉我们儿童保育很重要。是纽约人告诉我们纽约的公交车是全美国最慢的。

And the necessity of fulfilling these commitments are also to ensure that those New Yorkers stay New Yorkers. 兑现这些承诺的必要性还在于确保这些纽约人继续留在纽约。

They continue to see themselves in this city. 他们继续在这座城市中看到自己的身影。

And the only way we can do so is if they see their struggles in our politics. 我们能做到这一点的唯一方法是让他们在我们的政治中看到他们的挣扎。

And 而且

there are many politicians who will tell you that the best life could ever be is the one that you're living in right now. 有许多政客会告诉你，最好的生活就是你现在正在过的生活。

And those are also the ones who have paved the way for the politics we've seen of Donald Trump because you have to be able to reckon with the material needs of working people and the fact that so many of them are going unmet. 而这些人也正是为我们所见的唐纳德·特朗普政治铺平道路的人，因为你必须能够正视工薪阶层的物质需求，以及他们中许多人需求未被满足的事实。

Right. Sounds like you're saying, "I know what I believe. I'm not going to compromise on my values and my administration will not compromise on my values and that will be enough." 没错。听起来你是在说：“我知道我信仰什么。我不会在我的价值观上妥协，我的政府也不会在我的价值观上妥协，这就足够了。”

This is like my translator. 这就像我的翻译器。

Perhaps it will be enough. 也许这会足够。

Assemblyman Zoron, 佐兰议员，

Mr. Mr. Mandani, thank you very much for your time. 马马尼先生，非常感谢您抽出宝贵时间。

Thank you very much. It's a pleasure. 非常感谢。很高兴。

Good luck to you. 祝你好运。

Thank you. Same to you. 谢谢。你也是。

Oh, yes. Well, we're doing a quick interview photo. 哦，是的。我们正在快速拍一张采访照片。

Yes. Should we do one of those politician handshakes or no? 是的。我们要不要来个那种政客式的握手，还是不要？

No, no, no, no. 不，不，不，不。

Later tonight, Zoron Mandani will participate in the first general election debate of the mayor's race, where he'll face off against Andrew Cuomo, now running as an independent, and Curtis Siwa, a Republican. 今晚晚些时候，佐兰·马马尼将参加市长竞选的第一场大选辩论，他将与目前以独立候选人身份参选的安德鲁·库默以及共和党人柯蒂斯·西瓦对决。

The debate begins at 700 p.m. 辩论将于晚上7点开始。

We'll be right back. 我们马上回来。

今日其他新闻

Original English sentence(s) from the transcript.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。

Here's what else you need to know today. 以下是您今天还需要知道的其他新闻。

The Times reports that the Trump administration has secretly authorized the CIA to conduct covert action in Venezuela, a major escalation in its campaign against the country's authoritarian leader, Nicholas Madura. 《泰晤士报》报道称，特朗普政府已秘密授权中央情报局 (CIA: Central Intelligence Agency，美国联邦政府主要情报机构之一，负责收集和分析外国情报。) 在委内瑞拉采取秘密行动，这是其针对该国专制领导人尼古拉斯·马杜罗的行动的重大升级。

The US military has already been destroying boats off Venezuela's coast that it claims are transporting drugs. 美国军方已在委内瑞拉海岸附近摧毁其声称运载毒品的船只。

And in private conversations, US officials are now making it clear that their end goal is to drive Maduro from power. 在私人对话中，美国官员现在明确表示，他们的最终目标是推翻马杜罗的权力。

And in oral arguments on Wednesday, the Supreme Court's conservative majority appeared ready to challenge a key provision of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 by prohibiting state lawmakers from using race as a factor in drawing election maps. 在周三的口头辩论中，最高法院的保守派多数似乎准备挑战1965年《选举权法案》的一项关键条款，即禁止州立法者在划分选举区时将种族作为考虑因素。

If the court decides that race may not be used in such maps, it could allow Republican legislators to eliminate at least a dozen Democratic held house seats across the South. 如果法院裁定在此类地图中不得使用种族因素，这可能允许共和党立法者在南部各地取消至少十几个由民主党控制的众议院席位。

[Music] [音乐]

Today's episode was produced by OA Cherved, Mary Wilson, Jessica Chung, and Mujade. 今天的节目由OA Cherved、Mary Wilson、Jessica Chung和Mujade制作。

It was edited by Paige Cowat and Brendan Clinkenberg. contains music by Alicia, 由佩奇·考瓦特和布伦丹·克林肯伯格编辑。包含艾丽西亚的音乐，

Dan Powell, and Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. 丹·鲍威尔和玛丽安·洛扎诺的音乐，由艾丽莎·莫克斯利进行工程制作。

[Music] [音乐]

That's it for the daily. I'm Michael. See you tomorrow. 今天的《The Daily》就到这里。我是迈克尔。明天见。

[Music] [音乐]