Kyra Blackwell: I'm Kyra Blackwell. I'm Rosie Garin. And you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.

Kyra Blackwell: Kyra, are you okay?

Rosie Garin: No.

Rosie Garin: Yeah. Is it by any chance because you live in a basement and it it is February?

Kyra Blackwell: Oh, what do you think?

Rosie Garin: I think that might have something to do with big factor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I talk about this all the time, but I do live in a basement and I don't get any light like ever. And it's especially hard in winter when it's in full swing because it just it just feels like I'm in darkness all the time.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah. And the days are shorter, too. Um, have you ever considered getting one of those big lights that they advertise that you should use in winter so that you are less sad?

Rosie Garin: Yeah. Um, the technical name is actually a light therapy lamp, but since they're pegged for use during winter when seasonal effective disorder hits, they're often referred to with their acronym SAD or SAD lamps.

Kyra Blackwell: So, they're literally called sad.

Rosie Garin: They're literally called sad lamps for the saddies of the world. But yeah, I've thought about it. Um, I've read about it a lot, but I don't know. It's been kind of hard for me to decide if I should dive right into it for a couple of reasons. I wasn't sure how well they might work and they're a little bit expensive. I mean, I think our top pick is about $200 for this really bright, ugly lamp.

Kyra Blackwell: So, you want to have some sense of if they work, how they work, what to expect before you jump in.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah. Well, we got to phone a friend then.

Kyra Blackwell: We're going to chat with Nancy Red. We love Nancy. Love.

Rosie Garin: We love Nancy. We last talked to Nancy about toothbrushes and sunscreen and she's incredibly knowledgeable. She covers health and personal care here at Wire Cutter. She's been here a long time. Nancy is the source. I can't wait to talk to her. So, we're going to take a quick break and then when we're back, we're going to talk about what exactly these sad lamps do, if they work, how they work, and which one Nancy would recommend. Be right back.

Kyra Blackwell: Welcome back. Our guest is Nancy Red. She's a senior staff writer here at Wire Cutter. Welcome, Nancy.

Nancy Red: Hi.

Kyra Blackwell: Hi. Today we're talking about light therapy lamps, also known as SAD or SAD lamps. So, can you break down what seasonal effective disorder is and how sunlight plays into it?

Nancy Red: Okay. So, seasonal effective disorder, also known by the acronym SAD, is a seasonal pattern of major depressive episodes. So, officially it should be diagnosed by a physician and it's actually classified as depressive disorder with seasonal pattern, but that acronym isn't as fabulous as SAD. So, we basically just refer to it as seasonal effective disorder. And a lot of people have mood shifts or energy shifts when the seasons change, in particular in the winter. For some people, it's mild. You know, we've always heard of the winter blas or the winter blues. But for others, even if they don't recognize the pattern, it actually can present symptoms that are serious enough to disrupt daily life. And it can make you feel physically exhausted because darker months just do not provide the energy, the melatonin um that you need. And SAD can feel relentless. It's it's just really difficult for humans to exist in comfort without sunlight. And that's actually where light therapy comes in. Research actually started into this decades ago. The 1980s was a big time for seasonal effective disorder research. And through trial and error, they figured out that sufficiently bright artificial light, the kind that, you know, we're kind of stuck in the fluorescent light, it's just this, you know, rooms of overhead lighting.

Rosie Garin: Exactly. Um, actually suppresses nighttime melatonin. And melatonin is the hormone that regulates our sleep cycle. And ever since they figured that out, they were trying to figure out, so if sufficiently bright artificial light suppresses nighttime melatonin, can we figure out a different kind of light that can help to regulate our sleep cycle and create a healthier circadian rhythm during the winter? So, for those who don't know, your circadian rhythm is basically your body's internal clock. It works on a 24-hour cycle that's mostly affected by light or lack thereof. And it affects everything from your body temperature to your hormones to your sleepwake cycle. So, these lamps are designed to sort of artificially get your circadian rhythm back in line with where you want it to be.

Nancy Red: Right. Absolutely. So, research since the 1980s has determined that circadian rhythms can actually be pushed back into alignment with morning bright light exposure. what our natural sleep wake cycle is when days are longer, right? Um, so basically, less daylight throws off your internal clock and bright light therapy helps to reset it. And it's very different from a regular light bulb because they used to do research and they thought, "Oh, well, it doesn't work." But they realized they just weren't using lights that were bright enough. So they've come up with a minimum for light therapy to work effectively and that is 10,000 lux. Lux is a way to measure light output. That's very bright. So they also have to figure out how to present it in a controlled and safe way. And that's where the SAD lamp or light box comes in. Also known as a light therapy lamp. This is where I always like to say it's very important that these be used under medical supervision even though they're available over the counter because this is affecting your mood. This is affecting how you feel, how you sleep. So you want to have some support from someone who knows you and your medical history if you are embarking upon light therapy

Kyra Blackwell: in the winter time. We get not really less light but we have a lack of light in the evenings but we do still have sunlight in the mornings. Basically, what I'm asking is, can just regular sunlight exposure do this, too? Or does that just mean you have to get up really early to catch that sunlight as opposed to getting a lamp like this and just sitting in your own house?

Nancy Red: Well, step one, the goal always is actual sunlight, right? Just like with anything. Um, we work with what we have. And cold is a prohibitor.

Kyra Blackwell: It definitely is for me.

Nancy Red: And then there's clouds, there's rain, there's inclement weather. So there is actually less light and the light is there for less time in many parts of the world. So if you can I truly suggest if you if you recognize by listening to this podcast I might have a touch of the winter blues or huh I have noticed this pattern I might need to talk to my doctor about whether or not I have seasonal effective disorder. Trying to just get out for a walk in the sun put on your parka and all that. That's always a a great option. But if you don't have that capacity, whether because of different abilities, your work schedule, etc., then light therapy can help provide an artificial way to kind of trick your body into quote unquote fixing your circadian rhythms.

Rosie Garin: So, back to the power of this light. Nancy, you mentioned 10,000 lux is the strength that it has to be. Can you just give us a point of reference like a lamp on your side table at night or something? You know, something like that is going to be how many looks?

Nancy Red: I cannot because every lamp and light is different. It depends on the light bulb you choose. It depends on so many facets. But I can say once you've experienced 10,000 lux, you can't go back. I can say that the light therapy lamps emit a very different purposeful kind of light and it's very controlled and safe and and they're UV free. They have a specific type of cover to make it pleasing to the eye and not jarring. And often times they have options to have less than 10,000 looks because that can be very strong. It can be an experience that is a bit overpowering sometimes, but that's part of why light therapy lamps are meant to be used under medical supervision. Because if you're walking around life feeling like you're jetlagged and bumped out, then out of nowhere, boom, this bright shining beam enters your life, it can feel like a lot. But the average light bulb in your house is not going to come anywhere near that. Or if it does, it's a different kind of light. like the fluorescent lights from overhead that can make you feel like you're in an interrogation room.

Kyra Blackwell: Well, I was going to ask because 10,000 looks sounds like it's the light of a thousand suns. Like, do you have to wear sunscreen and glasses when you sit in front of these things or

Nancy Red: That's not a dumb question. It does make sense, right? Because if you're trying to mimic the sun in your house and you've got a light that's 12 in away from your face and you're supposed to have it going into your cornea for 30 minutes a day, you might think, is this safe? And from the psychological standpoint, that's why it's important to work with a medical professional. But from the physiological standpoint, you don't need sunscreen because the lamps that we recommend emit UVE light. That way, you don't have to worry about ultraviolet light, which is the part of sunlight that is associated with skin damage. Like I said, we specifically avoid any lamp that doesn't filter out UV light. Usually they use specific plastic filter to make sure that it is either 99.9% UV-free light or some places you know are very confident and they say 100% UVE. So the lamps that we recommend are designed to deliver bright light without UV exposure. So you don't have to wear sunscreen. But this is where as the sunscreen guide writer, I will say you should be wearing sunscreen every day regardless because it is very important for your health if you're going out and about.

Kyra Blackwell: I was going to say I trust you because I trust you, Nancy, but I also trust you on all of this because you are our sunscreen expert. And so this is this is information that is a companion in some ways to that. It feels like

Nancy Red: it's really fun. I mean, if you think back to why the sun has been worshiped, you know, for millennia, and you think about how it feels, tell me the person, you know, who doesn't it feel just a little bit brighter once they've just had a moment in the sun?

Kyra Blackwell: You understand what we are as a human mechanism and how the sun is an important aspect of that. It's a beautiful thing.

Kyra Blackwell: So, can we just go back and talk about the mechanics of how these lights work? What is the light that the lamp is emitting doing to your body? So, these 10,000 looks, the goal is to find a lamp, and it's not as easy as it sounds, by the way, cuz there's like hundreds of quote unquote light therapy lamps out there. So, when we're sifting through, finding what the experts recommend isn't as easy as it seems. So experts say that to be effective, the lamp needs to offer 10,000 lux and you need to have access to that 10,000 lux for about 30 uninterrupted minutes per day, ideally in the morning. And the reason for that is the morning bright light exposure helps to push your circadian rhythm earlier and brings it back into alignment with your natural sleepwake cycle. A lot of experts refer to winter blues or seasonal effective disorder as feeling like you're jet-lagged. You know how you get off of a long flight and you're just like, "Ah, who am I? What am I? What is this?" And it takes you days to kind of put everything back in order and sleep normally in your new or old environment. So,

Rosie Garin: setting yourself right with morning bright light for 30 minutes a day, it kind of undoes that jet lag effect that winter can cause. and realigns your natural sleepwake cycle. Would you recommend that people only use this in the winter time? Because I personally actually have trouble when daylight savings starts in the summer and it's really dark in the mornings, but you get sunlight later in the day.

Nancy Red: Well, that's a great and astute observation. I'm glad that you are aware of how the sun affects your body because every body is different. Which is why again a light therapy lamp is not a miracle lamp. It's not a mood lamp. It is a medical device. And also remember parts of the world are very different. Like this is a different conversation in January in Alaska than it is in southern Virginia. Right? So seasonal effective disorder is tied to seasonal pattern. So let's just contextualize whatever your darker months are. That's what we mean by winter, right? Bright light therapy is considered to be an effective treatment option for sad and other types of depression. Now, extrapolating that, right? Like you said, well, I'm feeling weird in this period of time or other people might feel weird all the time. A professional is a great person to help determine whether it's appropriate for you and also to guide on how often or how long you should use it. So, I wouldn't call it a strictly winter only tool. I think it's a treatment that can be tailored to the individual, you know, ideally with a clinician's guidance.

Kyra Blackwell: So, we have an idea of who sad lamps might be for, but I'm curious if you know if there are any particular groups that may be sensitive to these lamps that it may not be a good idea.

Nancy Red: There are actually more people who should really, really be careful about undergoing light therapy than you would think cuz you think it's just a lamp. What could happen? Well, people are very sensitive to light. So first and foremost, anyone with a history of bipolar disorder should know that light therapy has the potential to trigger a manic episode in susceptible individuals. There are also some important physical contraindications because we don't fully know the long-term effects of light therapy on the retina. Okay. So, people with retinal diseases like macular degeneration or diabetic uh retinopathy should speak to their opthalmologist first. And then finally, medications that are photosensitive, right? Like there are some chemotherapy drugs, there are certain antiscychotics. People who are taking certain medicines should mention it to their medical professionals.

Rosie Garin: So Nancy, just to recap, I'm hearing that the most important thing is you definitely want to be in communication with your doctor before you buy one of these things. And if they give you the go-ahad, then during the time that you're using light therapy lamp, still communicate throughout the entire process. And I want to just make sure I say when I say doctor, it doesn't have to be your PCP. It can be your therapist, your psychiatrist, your psychologist, just somebody who knows you as a patient. That is my ideal for everyone. And then you're going to want to incorporate it into your morning routine. Maybe while you're sitting having your coffee, you're blessed in 10,000 lux right on your face.

Nancy Red: Absolutely.

Rosie Garin: All right, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to get into the details of all four sad lamps Nancy recommends. Stick around.

Kyra Blackwell: Welcome back. Now that we know what sad lamps are and how they work, let's talk a little bit about which ones you recommend, Nancy. So, first, tell us how you even researched and tested these lamps.

Nancy Red: Okay, so Wire cutters been testing light therapy lamps since 2017. As the senior staff writer for health, I have personally tested over 30 light therapy lamps. I've evaluated over a hundred, but many of them do not meet our parameters for the best light therapy lamp to help with seasonal effective disorder. I love reading peerreview studied. I love scouring message boards where people are biohacking trying to figure out how to make themselves feel great year round, but in particular in the winter months with light therapy lamps and is a it's a topic that people are really into and I've spoken with multiple experts. It's been really fun to figure out the best light therapy lamp even though we are not evaluating for medical efficacy. But we are looking at each lamp to decide is it actually delivering the 10,000 lugs? How far away do you have to sit? Because some lamps will deliver it, but it's 6 in, right? And that's that's a life decision that you have to make. Is that how I'm going to go down? Um, and of course, like I said, whether it filters out UV light that could potentially be damaging. Then there are other less important but still important factors like heat output, positioning options, cord length, timers, and also brightness settings. You'd be surprised. A lot of these lamps actually get rather hot.

Rosie Garin: Yeah. I sat in a little bit on your testing at our office in Long Island City and I noticed as soon as you walk into that conference room, you had all these like lamps set up and it was noticeably hot in there. Yes. Well, I wanted to go back a little bit and ask why you're not testing for efficacy.

Nancy Red: Yes, definitely no. We have not tested these lamps for efficacy. Now, other people have tested for efficacy. In fact, the maker of our pick, Carrick, has been part of many a study showing the efficacy of light therapy lamps. But we at Wire Cutter are not qualified or equipped to evaluate SAD lamps for medical efficacy. So, we're not testing whether or not they improve depression.

Rosie Garin: I see.

Nancy Red: We are testing whether or not they have the stats experts say can be therapeutically effective. And user experience.

Rosie Garin: Yes. Because as you'll see with summer picss, are they slightly less technically therapeutically effective? Yes. But is it something that can work in a tiny apartment or a person's budget or an aesthetic desire? Also yes. So like with anything, whether it's a toothbrush or light therapy lamp, the one you will use is the one that you need to pick.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah. I wanted to talk about your pick specifically. I also wanted to mention that I mean I remember this guide used to only have like one light and it was just the raining light for a long time and then you added

Nancy Red: No, it always had two. It always had two.

Rosie Garin: Yes, we've had two. Sorry. Well, and the reason why and I'm so passionate about this I didn't mean to cut you off but it has always had two. We've always had our delightful Carex which has gone through an upgrade process and then we now recommend the upgraded one which is really great. Um and it's just so peruncter. It It looks like a medical device.

Kyra Blackwell: Like a medical device. It's very It's huge. It's got this really long arm and it's made out It looks like it's made out of steel. And it just kind of like overpowers you as it stares over you and shines this bright light at you.

Nancy Red: Yes. Yes. It's screaming, "I am being used under medical supervision. I have no aesthetic value, but I might be able to help you survive in life." That's not the vibes for many for many people. And so, but we always have had a runner up. It's more expensive. It's less positionable,

Kyra Blackwell: but it looks cuter.

Nancy Red: It's a cuter lamp.

Rosie Garin: So, you have four picks in your guide. How should somebody go about choosing which one is right for them?

Nancy Red: If you are okay with just the, you know, trying to improve your mood, definitely go with the Carex. It's amazing. It's affordable. It has all the specs our experts recommend. It's got a really great 5year warranty. What we like about it most is it can be positioned to mimic overhead lighting from the sun, which that's the goal. The goal is mimicking sunlight. And so it hangs over your head. So if you're sitting at a desk, it's coming in your into your eye like sun would, but it looks clunky. If I really needed a sad lamp, I would use it because I choose efficacy over aesthetics.

Kyra Blackwell: Okay, so Carrick's top pick, even if it's maybe not the nicest thing to look at. What is the Northern Light lamp best for? This is another pick.

Nancy Red: So, the Northern Light has always been like our little runner uh for years, and it's because it just looks like a like an industrial box. It's like very pretty, and it's thin, streamlined. It also has this very beautiful warm light and it has a very unobtrusive design. So if you just slid it in there, no one would be like, "What's that?" You know, and it's very large. So some of our pics are smaller and unobtrusive, but the larger the light face, the better a chance you have of getting some benefit out of this in a shorter period of time. So, if you are weighing efficacy, aesthetic, and ease of use, it's definitely going to be the Northern Light box light. Yeah, that was my favorite one I tested in the office.

Rosie Garin: I have a beautiful picture of you in front of it. You look so cute. You just look like a sun fairy.

Nancy Red: It's It's got that really warm toned light. It felt like I was just basking in the sun. It was great.

Rosie Garin: It has been a pick just like the Carrick for years. How about um the Buer? Am I saying that right?

Nancy Red: I don't know. beer.

Rosie Garin: The TL95.

Nancy Red: It's a really, really special lamp. It looks like it belongs in an Apple store. It has a very unique light that it emits that is designed to more closely mimic natural daylight, but it's a very cool color that's not for everyone, which is why it's great for people to read reviews, watch videos, and decide what works for them. Yeah, that one more so reminded me of like a fluorescent light. Like the the color it was literally it's very white that comes off of that lamp.

Kyra Blackwell: How about the Verilux Happy Light? What's that one about?

Nancy Red: I love this one. Okay, this one it's so funny because over the years I've always been looking for another budget pick light, but nothing can topple the Verilux heavy light. It's a great little inexpensive compact cheap lamp. And for the price of one of our top picks, you can get two or three. You could have one in the office, one at home. I've actually even heard of people taking this lamp and attaching it to like a portable charger and putting it in the car with them as they're driving to work. And it's totally effective. People really like the aptly named Verilux Happy Light. So, if somebody really wants more sunlight in their environment, why would they spend up to $200 on one of these lamps when they could get something like the Verilux for a fraction of that cost? Well, again, the bigger the light phase, the better chance you have of getting an effective dose of light therapy in an amount of time that makes sense for most people. The one problem with our budget pick is it provides 10,000 lux at a distance of only 6 in, right? So, what that means though is at a longer distance, it provides less lux. So, if you're in front of it for a longer period of time, like if you just have the thing on at your desk all day, that's fine. But more lux in a shorter period of time is better. That's why you would pick the carax or the box of light or you know another one that gives you a distance and always read what they say. Good light therapy lamps offer you inches to lux for you to make your decisions. So I think that's it. I mean you it's a decision you have to make for yourself. Like again, you're not going to have the carax in your car, but the heavy light just kind of fits into a lifestyle and a vibe.

Rosie Garin: So, for someone listening who is curious, but maybe a little bit skeptical about reaching for or paying for a sad lamp, what is the most reasonable and low pressure way to try light therapy without overcommitting?

Nancy Red: Fancy. I know this sounds very analog, but just try at first putting on a parka, grabbing a travel cup of a hot drink, you know, and just finding a spot in your world where the sun seems to be shining and just bask for 10 minutes if you can or take a walk. if you can do it for free. Even though I am the the author of the guide to light therapy lamps, I am also a budgetoriented nature first person. So see if that helps cuz the fresh air, the nature sounds, even if you don't get a lot of sun, all of these things can also boost your mood. And what's the worst that can happen?

Kyra Blackwell: Well, Nancy, we've made it to our final question. What's the last thing you've bought that you've really loved?

Nancy Red: Ooh, okay. I'm going to give you two words that don't seem like they would go together, but they do. Have you ever heard of a swim parka?

Kyra Blackwell: No.

Nancy Red: Oh, Nancy,

Rosie Garin: where is this headed?

Nancy Red: Imagine a giant waterproof head to calf coat, but the inside lining is a fluffy absorbent towel. Swim parkas. My daughter joined a swim team and we had her little sad towel and all the other children are exiting the pool with their parent acting like like a a handler and putting them in these coats and I was like, "What is this? Why are you wearing a coat at the pool?" They're like, "It's not a coat. It's a swim parker." So, I went online and immediately bought it and it's delightful and warm, but it's not too warm and the kid can waddle in it to the car and it keeps the car from being soaked in chlorine. I just wanted to know how I made it 44 years without knowing about this extreme towel upgrade that is the swim parker.

Rosie Garin: All right, I'm not going to lie. I thought you wore this in the water. This makes way more sense.

Nancy Red: Totally. Totally.

Rosie Garin: Yeah, same.

Nancy Red: But it's equally as mind-blowing cuz why are we out here with a towel when we could have a swim park?

Rosie Garin: Fair.

Nancy Red: I'm not mad at that.

Rosie Garin: Thanks, Nancy. Thanks for joining us.

Nancy Red: It's always a pleasure.

Rosie Garin: Nancy Red, one of our faves.

Kyra Blackwell: She's a gem.

Kyra Blackwell: She is such a gem. What are you taking away from this conversation? I found it really interesting.

Rosie Garin: Um, I think I need to talk to my doctor and see if maybe getting a light therapy lamp is the move for me. Yeah,

Rosie Garin: I live in a basement, as you well know, and I think I would really benefit from one.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah, I love that. I think for me the picks have been pretty consistent over the years as Nancy has tested these which suggests that there are some really good options there. Carrick sounds like it's not that nice to look at but it works really well and it is an efficient choice especially for the price point. And I also took from Nancy this idea of using these in the morning to really kind of try and jump start and get right your circadian rhythm.

Rosie Garin: Yeah, really important.

Kyra Blackwell: Really important.

Kyra Blackwell: That's it for us. If you want to find out more about Wire Cutters coverage, if you want to check out any of the SAD lamps we recommended today, go to ny times.com/wirecutter or you can find a link in the show notes.

Kyra Blackwell: The Wire Cutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Garin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Mattie Maziello and Nick Pitman. Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano, Alicia Bitup, Catherine Anderson, Rowan Nisto, and Diane Wong. Cliff Levy is Wire Cutter's deputy publisher and general manager. Ben Fman is Wire Cutters editorin chief. I'm Kyra Blackwell. and I'm Rosie Garin.

Rosie Garin: Thanks for listening.

Kyra Blackwell: Well, actually, we have a whole testing studio in Transennsylvania. No, I'm joking.

Rosie Garin: Yeah, all of our colleagues who live under dark bridges. No.