>> You aren't a human. You're in a meat locker. A lot of the treatments felt like that. Like it was really hard when you asked me about my mental health during the treatment. I couldn't answer it for you initially because I had to numb myself out so much and go through the motions. I was still caregiving for my son. My partner has a highprofile position and you know they still had to work. We couldn't find a caregiver. You know we were patchworking things but it made it really hard on my son. So, I was still trying to do some child care while going through chemo and radiation when I initially was going through treatment. It got better once we found a caregiver, but it took a long time.

>> Well, you mentioned that um when you found out the first cancer, he was about to turn four.

>> Yeah.

>> You're celebrating his life.

>> Mhm.

>> But you're facing perhaps the end of yours. How do you

>> I'm sorry. No, it was it was um when you look up online because as one does, you know, late at night, you know, will I die? When you look at small cell cancer, less than 30% of people, they say 0 to 30% of people live with it. I had to come to terms with the fact that I would die

because I didn't want it to be a shock if I did. I did my will right away. I made decisions. You know, I I had that all set up. I think, you know, the organizer in me was like, "This is control." I also threw a party for my friends to tell them that I had cervical cancer. Um, we called it Thank You for Your Cervix.

>> That's pretty good.

>> Yeah. Thank you. I wanted to have like a cervical cake with ovaries, but no, we couldn't get a cake made. I was really sad. But we told my friends and we it became this really beautiful not roast but everybody you know took turns taking a mic and just telling me that they're going to be there for me and we actually brought together people because a lot of them didn't know each other and we wanted the care team to know each other so that they also could support each other and what came from that was the most beautiful thing. It came over 35 people joined um like a care website that we had and they would sign up for appointments. It made appointments fun.

Initially um the first appointment I canled the person coming cuz I said I'm fine. You don't need to come. It's really hard to take yourself seriously. I don't know about you with your health, but there was a period of time up until I would say this November that I really believed that I was that sick. Like I was so about caring for other people, being like, "It can't be that bad, and if it is, I'll die." Because it just felt like it called for that. And it was so much unraveling of that piece. Have you thought about why that was for you?

>> I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse. And when you're a survivor of child sexual abuse, it's very different than a one-time sexual assault or rape because it's usually by someone you know or love. And in my case, it was my grandfather's.

And no one believed me initially. So you're like screaming like this is bad. And it took decades for people to believe me. And even after that, to this day, I don't think they understand the scope because it's too dangerous or too hard to hear what they are implicated in as a family by not protecting me when they needed to.

And so I think little me when I said that I had cancer is almost like am I making this a big deal to get attention or like is this real? Like it really feels like that because it's just so wild. And it's also the first time I think cancer diagnosis compared to anything else I've ever had, people do believe you and take it more seriously like health than any other thing.

>> Why do you think that is?

>> Because it's scientific. it's factual >> and you know that's um evidence-based, you know, compared to you being the evidence, you know, when people talk about sexual violence. And I say the trauma piece because I think it's important to understand that if one in three women have been impacted or subjected to some form of violence, then we are walking into health care centers, many of us, as survivors. Yet the health care system is not set up for survivors.

That took my breath away because um immediately the first thing I think of is the your body remembers >> and sometimes when you go well most times when you go into a doctor's office first of all it's one one person with one person. Um, and then the act of having to take off your clothes and then just like your body like this the test that they do on women like you you know this might sound a little graphic but you have to spread your legs.

>> I don't think it is graphic like people need to know

>> people right and it's again it's like there's a shame around talking about these things but like my body always froze.

>> Yeah.

>> And some doctors would be like what's the problem? Like come on. And especially when you're pregnant >> and you have like 10 people walking into your room, sticking their hands up your, >> you know, vagina and like and you

>> Sorry, I'm like ad living for you. It's like madness,

>> you know, right? like it's like and uh it's hard to keep telling saying hey can you you know

>> please this is why this is why my b even as a society I don't think we're ready to have a lot of these conversations because uh then it forces us to look at the things that are in the corners in the dark um and

>> I think that's a bit much for people even just talking about women's health

>> oh it's you know Yeah, if I talk about breast cancer, people are more apt to feel comfortable me talking about it because it's your breasts and breasts don't fully belong to you. They belong to the public, right? They belong to men. They are something that are cherished in society. Um but your vagina, your cervix, your ovaries, your fallopian tubes, it's like, you know, that's too graphic, that's too much. the fact that people get atrophy after these treatments, radiation, chemo, internal radiation, um you know, they cause menopause in me right away and no one really gives you that information.

But going back to the trauma thing, I'm going to come back to that menopause thing. Um, I think the trauma piece is really important to understand because I had to consistently say, "I'm a trauma survivor. I need you to do that differently." So, for example, um, when I was getting radiation on my breast, your breast is completely exposed and you're in a room with two people and they put a little piece of paper on top of it, like a little paper towel that kind of sticks.

And I remember the technician coming in and just ripping it off. And so I was exposed again. And I burst into tears. And then she was like, "What?" And I said, "That was really uncalled for. Is there a way you can do that in a gentle way?" And I had to talk her through what I needed. And you know what? She cried and I cried. And we had this beautiful conversation from it around what trauma informed can look like. And she was like, I've been trained in this, but I'm not practicing it all the time. And it was a hard conversation. Um, but it was one of many that I had during this process.

But I felt like too much sometimes. I don't know if you or other people feel that way, but I felt like too much. So I'm like, I'm a trauma survivor. I'm queer. I'm racialized. You know, I need you to do these things. But the thing is is that we're not fragments or fractions. We're a whole person. I'm not a patchwork quilt.

>> I'm a whole person and I need you to treat me with the care that I deserve. >> But I numbed out a lot. I definitely used the skills that I had learned as a trauma survivor, as a child sexual abuse survivor in those moments to just disassociate or freeze or numb myself to be able to survive. The amount of people that were consistently needing to do um you know, they failed to go in and look at my vagina, look at my cervix.

But there was a point where I had to say stop. Um because I had to go to a lot of specialists to get help on different parts, you know, the after effects, the little small things that happen afterwards that they would say which in themselves the the things that would happen after I'm sorry, my brain is getting fuzzy. You know the thing, what's the thing that's called um you go for treatment and then the thing that happens after it's like

>> the follow-up appointment?

>> No, no, no, no. like you know like your primary thing is endometriosis but the the there's something that happens as a result of getting a treatment. What's that called?

>> This is my brain fog.

>> Um

>> he chemobrain fog is real.

>> Yeah. We >> also have to pee really bad. Is it okay if I pee? Can I pee? Can I pee?

>> Listen, there are some really good things that happen during the period. And I think like

>> like what

>> good things that happened? Um my spouse and I have a different relationship. Uh, I think I was the primary parent of our son, you know, because he was born right before the pandemic and then just when they're little, they want their mommy, you know, they're sorry. Yeah. We call mama and mommy, but you know, they want they want one parent, especially the parent that that breastfeeds them

>> because we're they have to survive.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, I love you. Give me food. Um, and I breastfed for a long time. And uh but when I got sick, I remember my partner saying I cuz I send them away when I would have surgeries cuz I didn't want my son to see me in that much pain. Um so I sent them away, which is heartbreaking, too, cuz you're they're like going on a cute vacation and you're, you know, not um

but I remember my spouse saying to me, "I can't do this. Like you're the better parent, you know, like you're you're just I can't do this. He'll want you." and they went away together and my partner said to me, "I think it's okay. I think it's okay. Like, he's doing really great." And I'm like, "You're doing really great." So, there's that piece of also caregiving and sharing caregiving that sometimes you kind of not hoard, but you're kind of like, I can do this

>> kind of hard. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Or like think

>> you're supposed to do.

>> Yeah. Or sweep in to kind of do the thing first. Um, I didn't know that I could ask for help. When when I gave birth to our son, I didn't ask for help. I was in the hospital, you know, with my spouse, but no one else. Um, I didn't know that I could get support from friends. I didn't ask for it. And then the pandemic happened and we were really isolated.

to have that celebration, the thank you for your cervix celebration, bring together people we love and be able to say, I have this cancer that's very rare and very serious. Can you help me?

It was kind of I was kind of h I was no kind of I was humbled humbled because people just showed up. I had people I've helped out in other parts of my life. um reach out online when I couldn't get the medication the day before I had to do chemo and I was too weak to go walk there cuz I live so close to one of the hospitals I can walk to it which I probably shouldn't have during chemo but I was like I'm just going to walk back and forth

>> I can do it.

>> Yeah, totally. That mindset of ridiculousness. Um and they went to go get my medication. So, this is someone I never met before, but I had helped their partner and they said, "Oh, yeah. We live right by you. I'm going to go get your meds and I'll drop them off at your concagege."

>> That's really lovely to hear because I think people want to help, but if you don't ask, they maybe assume you don't want to help or need the help. Um, but you know, motherhood for me, uh, I learned so much about myself because I I always say to, um, like motherhood is very humbling in so many ways. Um, but you wanted to have another baby. How did you navigate that loss of not being able to have another baby after your cancer diagnosis?

>> I'm still navigating it. it uh it's such a deep well of grief.

>> I wonder if I was straight they would have talked to me more about it. So usually when or a protocol is that when you have the type of cancer that I do and going through that kind of treatment they tell you about your options.

I had luckily saved a number of um embryos that we had because we had gone through IVF initially. Um and we had saved like eight, eight or nine. And so I had them,

but I had thought that I was going to be pregnant again. That was that was my goal. I wanted to have another baby. And uh it didn't sink in and I didn't let it sink in like I kept those embryos because I was like maybe surrogacy or I don't know a friend will carry for me.

Um but I think it sunk in the day that I went to my you know radiation oncologist and I was like oh yeah so what's happening with my period? Is it going to stop for a little bit during this radiation? And she just looked at me and point blankly said, "No, your ovaries are dead."

Okay. And no one had really prepared me for that. Like they had said that I wouldn't be able to have like carry a child. Um but I didn't realize that what was happening. I think you just they move you so quickly at that time. They give you some pamphlets, but they move you so quickly because the type of cancer I had was so aggressive. Like, we only found out that I had breast cancer through a scan.

Um, and the doctors were like, "Oh, no." Like, this is just a benign thing. Don't worry about it. And when my one of my doctors called me to check in about the next radiation appointment I had, I was looking at the biopsy results and I said to her, "It looks like I I do have breast cancer."

>> Wait, so you're the one that pointed out that

>> Yeah. Yeah. Because you you get this new system is that you get your results at this, you know.

>> And she was like, "Oh, no, you don't." And then I said, "Well, no, look, the biopsy results came in." And then we're on the phone as this is happening. And she she goes, "Okay, just give me a sec." She looks at them and she goes, "Oh, yeah, you do have breast cancer."

And that's how it was confirmed to me that I had breast cancer from a doctor.

>> And how soon after you found out you had cervical cancer?

>> A month.

It's about 2% of people with cancer get a second cancer. It is extremely extremely rare to get a second cancer during your treatment for first cancer.

>> And you're fairly young >> when we're seeing more young people being diagnosed with cancer.

>> I imagine that probably also created an additional barrier because of being dismissed. You're too young to have this.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Like I when I initially in January of 2023, I woke up one day and I said to my partner, "I have breast cancer. I think I have breast cancer." And it wasn't because I had a lump or anything. It was just a feeling, which I know seems strange to some people, but I don't know, trusting my feelings has worked for me before. When I went to my doctor, um, when I initially had the the cervical test or the cervical scrape, um, I said, you know, I think I also have I think I have breast cancer. And she was like felt my breast, like did a exam and she was like, no, there's no lymphs. You don't need to go get a mammogram.

And so I didn't go for a mamogram. The only way they caught it was because I had to go for further scans for my cervical cancer. and I was 43 at the time. It is young and that makes it even more difficult. One that people oftentimes don't take you seriously, but you're too old to be in the young people cancer group and you're too young to be with the seniors. But I was oftentimes put in programs where it was mostly seniors and that created a mental health challenge for me. Not because I don't love seniors. They're amazing and oftentimes put me in my place in a really good way. Um, great advice around how to deal with the arthritis that came into my hands um and the pain that went through my hips from all the treatment.

Uh, but it was hard because they had retired whereas I was facing this moment of will I be able to go back to work? I had already missed a year. Not missed a year. Well, I was with my son, but it felt like missing a year in terms of the way that the work world works.

>> Of course, you missed a year in the work world. I think sometimes we sugarcoat these things and it's like if you're not there, you are missing.

>> Yeah.

>> But you can't be in two places at the same time.

>> No, but there's such a penalty for that. The motherhood penalty is real.

>> And then two years later, I get cancer. The other part about what you were just saying about the seniors, I think if you're treated in that group too, you still how you wanted to still become have another baby, but if you're in that senior category, oh, you already wrapped that part of your life up and maybe they treat you differently because of that.

>> Um, I didn't feel they were treating me differently in that way. Like ev every time I would go for scans, so MRIs, CTS, they would ask me if I was pregnant. Even though it said cervical cancer on, I wanted to make a pin and it felt like a it felt like a punch in the gut every time. Sometimes I would just weep on the MRI table.

>> Did you always want to become a mother?

>> Yes.

>> How come?

>> Yeah. >> I always wanted to be a mother. I always wanted that. And when you're queer, you're constantly told that in so many ways that you shouldn't be a mother. The way in which people talk about queer people as deviants, as a problem to be solved, as something to fix. I grew up in a Muslim Catholic family, so guilt was big around sexuality, both sides. And uh I didn't grow up with support when I was first coming out. It's changed in some ways and other ways it hasn't. I was disowned by half my family when I chose to marry my spouse who's wonderful.

They're missing out, of course. It was really isolating. So, I always wanted to be a mother. I always wanted to, but there's so many barriers, including price. Like, it's so expensive to go through the IVF process. You know, the cost of sperm, the cost of um getting all the tests to see if you can get pregnant than to the private clinics, the the process is extremely also invasive.

So, it also taught me how to numb myself out and disassociate to say it wasn't painful to say, "Oh, it's fine. I don't I don't need medication. I can do that."

>> Because it's something that you really wanted. And um you know, one cancer diagnosis is devastating, but two, I think, would destroy anyone. Um on social media though, uh you created memes that documented what you were experiencing, but these memes also made people laugh. I think I messaged you a few times and said, "Wow, um this like you know, um in the process of you losing so much, you were giving joy to other people. How come?"

>> It was giving joy to me. Like I had to laugh sometimes cuz it's just it was so ridiculous. And you haven't seen all the memes. I didn't even unleash the memes.

One thing literally in >> maybe a meme book afterward

>> maybe maybe like a burn book. Um, my spouse like in my instructions to them if I had died was to release all the memes.

Like it was not a joke in our house and they knew that if I was going to die that there had to be a roast. Like it could not be like a regular regular thing where people were like, "Oh, she was so lovely. No, I want people to roast me." And and that was really a part of this that I had to have joy throughout it. I would make jokes to, you know, with the doctors, you know, there were funny moments with this like um

my spouse was with me uh at one of the appointments before I started chemo and the doctor I said to them, you know, is there anything else I need to know? And you know, he thought for a second, he's like, oh yeah, you need to make sure you use birth control during chemo. And I looked at my partner and I looked at the resident who was obviously queer as well. And I just looked at the doctor. I said, "I'm gay." Gay. And he with

>> a capital G.

>> Yeah. A capital G, a hard G there. And he looked at me and he was like, "Yeah, so maybe not that." You know, and so like it was just it was funny at that moment. And you have to laugh, you know? You have to find humor in it.

And it's the same as the thing like uh these things are always going to be funny to me. I have to laugh even like just recently I had a test at a hospital and they're like okay get changed into this you know get changed and then we'll do the procedure and they left and they had locked all the robes in a glass cabinet so I couldn't get changed. And I was like oh well I need to get ready. So, I just took a sheet, wrapped around my naked body, and then was ready to go.

And the doctor came back and he was like, "Okay, go use this robe. Let me get this out." But I was just like, "All right." It was like, you know, the jetu holidays like I was jet holiday at that moment. I was like, nothing can be like discount hospital time. Like you just like I don't know. Or like

>> life continues.

>> Life continues like you know. Um, I love Issa Ray, who of course is from um, Insecure. And she, her first episode of Insecure, she makes a rap song about her friend called Broken And I swear I played that all the time because mine was so broken. And I would play that for everybody. I'd be like, "This is our song before we start chemo." Like, I was just like marching around like that was my jam. And it was. And so, like, yeah, parts of you are broken, but you have to find ways to bring them. And I refuse to just be broken because there's a narrative of what we're supposed to be.

But I will tell you that that worked for only a year. It worked for only a year because I had it in my mind that I could do a twoin- one. I could do breast cancer and cervical cancer treatment, small cell, rare cervical cancer treatment, all in one year. So I pushed the doctors after I was done six months of intensive treatment like so much chemo, so many invasive um surgeries. Uh and then

I remember calling him in December. So I was just done chemo and all the treatment for cerv small cell cervical and I was like okay I'm ready for my breast cancer treatment. How soon can we do it? And they're like uh let's wait until January. And I was upset at that time because I wanted to get it done because I wanted to go back to work.

>> I mean, the work culture we live in, uh, it's, you know, I I you've been so generous with our conversation and, um, we're running out of time and, uh, you I think this could be like a whole other episode about where when you're navigating an illness, but you still have to show up at work, uh, in your family. And you mentioned that you wrote a column for the Global Mail and I just wanted to read part of what you wrote.

You wrote, "Before cancer, I had walked the edges of grief. It was something I didn't fully allow myself to feel. Always too sharp, too raw to touch. Navigating these illnesses has allowed me to befriend grief. I sit within it preparing for the waves so I can ride them." What have you learned about grief that has changed your relationship with it?

>> Yeah, I've learned to actually feel it. I think before before it was inconvenient with cancer I couldn't work during cancer so all of a sudden I was left with myself

my friends called it micro doing capitalism for me sometimes they would like give me little projects to do so that I would not be fanatic um but I had to sit with my grief and grief that grief that I hadn't processed from other things that were connected to cancer. So my father when he died of pancreatic cancer because I was disowned that whole side of the family um didn't talk to me and you know I don't know where he's buried. I don't know.

I don't know much. But the grief came during that time because during cancer because all of a sudden I was being asked about my genetics because pancreatic cancer um if you have it um and you have a family member with ovarian there's a connection also to breast cancer bracka 1. And so I was getting genetic testing and I didn't know the history of my family.

And that's homophobia meeting up with the medical system. And I had to grieve that loss of my whole side of a family during cancer treatment because I hadn't touched that yet. I hadn't touched that.

or the grief of not being able to have another child and the homophobia that we experienced as a family while I was pregnant. People commenting on our news that I was pregnant saying that it was abomination that um our child shouldn't exist and our child should exist. our son is so joyful, so wonderful.

>> And seeing that grief is a part of my life and that cancer's taught me to not, as I said, sit in the edges of it or walk the edges of it, but to actually live through it and that I can't separate it.

>> What have you learned about yourself through these processes?

I learned that I can't control anything and that death might come. I became comfortable with death and grief around that. What I learned about myself too was that wow, I like to people please. So I had to work through a lot of wanting to make other people feel comfortable like doctors even and that I could be present in my body. I don't think I was that present in my body before because to survive what I survived, I had to disassociate. And then all of a sudden when you're healing, people are like, "Oh, does this hurt here? Where is the pain?" And you're like, "I don't know. I don't know how to tell you that. You want me to start with grief?" If I start talking about grief, it's like pulling a thread and everything opening, unraveling.

But I had to let that unravel because I want to live whole. I want to live like I'm alive. And um Audrey Lord, who's a survivor of cancer, was a survivor of cancer and a black feminist poet and writer and everything. She talked about wanting to live her life like a comet, you know, and I took her her words so deeply when I was going through my treatment, wanting to live life fully, but learning that I have to move slowly, that I don't move at other people's pace of healing or pace of healing. I move at my own and no one gets to shape that but me.

I really struggled with friendship during cancer. I could have friends uh my care team was amazing but not many people could understand what I was going through. I didn't want to make friends with people with cancer because often if I did when they started talking about their treatment it wasn't the same as mine especially as someone with two cancers and one being very rare and aggressive.

I ended up making two friends during my treatment. One, a woman that was much older than me on her second battle with cancer battle second cancer treatment process and another woman who was around my age with two young children.

both died um a one after another just uh in June and July. Their funerals back toback literally a Friday and a Saturday and then just this Saturday my father-in-law passed away.

So how am I doing? There was times during my treatment that I wanted to die. There was treatment plans that weren't expected. There were times where I just thought, "Oh, yeah. This is done." And then a new thing would pop up. And so many people at first want you to be alive. So they're like, "You're going to be fine." And I kind of was like, "Yeah, of course." And after a while, I started saying, "Maybe I'm not going to be fine."

And it's getting comfortable with all those things. But this friend, my my sister who was my around my age, Sheila Cola, she wanted to live every day. She wanted to live and I was the chromagin out of the two of us.

But now that she's gone, I want to carry her with me. So, how am I doing? I'm alive. And that's so different than so many people in my life. All the people that were closest to me have died.

um that all the people closest to me who had cancer are dead in the past three months.

So, I'm here and I'm trying and I'm alive. I'm going back to work, whatever that looks like. I'm holding my son's hand in the sun.

I get to cuddle with him as he makes potions. Just recently, he made a potion. Um and I asked him, you know, what's what's this new one? And he said, "It's the don't die potion, and if you spray it on someone, they won't die.

It's not just me who processed this whole couple years. It was him, too. And watching him grieve his grandfather and process death and talk about it has made me want to live more because I want to be able to keep talking to him about those things. I want to hold my spouse's hand. I want to slow dance with them.

But how am I doing right now? I'm clear scans for the first time, which I don't know what to do with. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop when I get excited about life again. On the other hand, I'm excited about life.

So, how am I doing? I'm alive.

>> Just one more question. Thank you so much for sharing that. What do you think is missing in the health care system that could have made what you went through a little bit easier to manage?

>> Just one thing.

>> Well, you know,

>> just one thing. Um, >> first of all, our health care system in Ontario and across Canada is being defunded. I'm watching that firsthand. I had a surgery that was supposed to happen to remove my ovaries and I was there Ivy was in hadn't eaten 24 hours and I was sitting in the waiting area you know that chase lounge chess lounge that you sit in no the recliner that you sit in um and my doctor had to come over to me and said you know what we don't have enough nurses we can't we can't have the surgery you're going to have to come back in a couple days and that is a direct example an impact of the defunding of our health care system.

So there are so many things that need to happen around trauma-informed care, around anti-racism in our health care and understanding from an inter intersectional place that when a woman comes through those doors of a health care system, be it a hospital, a clinic, they deserve care that meets their needs. not the needs that is being prescribed to them but their needs and traumaformed care should just be across the board because let's just respect.

So what needs to happen? We need our health care system not to be defunded but actually the money to be increased envelope by envelope. We need women's health care to be taken seriously. We know that women that are women do women that are doctors are paid less.

We know that if you do surgeries on women for the same equivalent of for men, they are paid less. And not just like, you know, 1% 2% like 20 over 20%. We know that so many people don't have a primary healthcare doctor. So I was lucky enough to have a primary healthcare doctor that could test me every year to see if cervical cancer had appeared and check me for HPV.

We don't have that yet. And if you want to do home care tests now for HPV, you have to pay, which is out of reach for so many people. We haven't even talked about the cost of cancer. You know, cancer patients pay up to $33,000 when they're going through cancer treatment.

The amount of money that went out of pocket to pay for things that were not covered by OHIP or my benefits, having to fight with my insurance company all the time. So, it's this system. It's not one thing because it impacts so many things impact us. And if we're not investing in the system in public health care and not the scraps, but actual public health care that meets everybody's needs, we're going to continue to see people have cervical cancer, which is completely preventable.

Completely preventable. I think that's what thing that makes me want to flip a table, throw a chair, is that this is preventable. and people did not invest in this, I wouldn't I would have had more children. I would have been in my job thriving.

But because there was a deinvestment in public health care, people like me have to go through this. And so I would like this to be history, cervical cancer. I would also want our healthcare system to continue to be public and not fragmented.

So I don't have a magic wand and I have a big answer for you.

>> I think that's you know we can't uh I think maybe that's the problem. We look at one thing when it's a systemic thing. Far, thank you so much.

>> Thank you.

>> Appreciate it.

>> This was Mistreated for October 21st, 2025. You can follow our show on Apple Podcast so that you can get notified each time a new episode is available. We would love to hear your feedback. You can write me an email at mistreatedodcast at tvO.org or reach out to me on my social channels. We'd love to hear your stories and you can send us a voice memo if you'd like to share your story on the podcast. Here's a comment we got on YouTube from our pain and pregnancy episode. The health and well-being of the woman must always be a priority. Women should not suffer pain, fever, disease because they are pregnant. We need to include pregnant women in well- reggulated scientific drug trials. Thanks so much for that comment. This week's episode was produced by Matthew Omara and me. Digital shorts by Ariana Longley. Production support from Jonathan Hallowell and TVO's digital media services team. Lori Fu is the executive producer of digital. John Ferry is vice president programming and content. Thanks so much for listening.