hi everybody I'm Nikolai tangan and the CEO of the Norwegian sov wealth fund and

today I'm in properly good company with Jennifer scanland president and CEO of the remarkable UL Solutions now UL

Solutions specialize in safety testing across a wide range of areas from household appliances Industrial Equipment building materials medical devices lots of interesting things we're

going to talk about and we own 1.6% of the company equivalent to $160 million

Jennifer huge pleasure to have you on today

it's such a pleasure to be here Nikolai we're thrilled to be part of your portfolio as a newly public company

absolutely so let's just uh kick off with the basics what exactly do you guys test

so we test products and we test products in the industrial space um where our customers are in the B2B environment and we test products in the consumer space where our customers are really in the B Toc environment and then

we have a whole set of offerings of software and advisory services that help those customers uh have uh better usage of the data and some of the advisory services that they need to get their products to market

now how do how do you test what kind of things do you do with the products

visiting our Labs is always such a crowd-pleaser uh we do things like we drop things from six feet high see if they break we break things we may try to put an anvil on top of let's say a uh helmet for personal protective gear we try to blow things up

our fire Labs uh here in North brick at our headquarters uh were constantly lighting things on fire

and then all over the world we're trying to uh ensure that uh the way that products are used over and over again meets a set of Standards uh

we may stick a boot in a pool of water for 48 hours with sensors inside to see if there's any leakage anything you could possibly think of to test a product we probably do

H and why is the testing Market growing

the testing Market's growing for a number of reasons and it's really driven by I would say the amount of transparency that consumers now have

we all want to keep ourselves safe our family safe our children in particular safe and there's a lot of information that's available

so you think about 50 years ago nobody was paying attention to things like uh volatile organic compounds voc's and how much of you know that new car smell or new carpet smell um what that was actually doing uh to you know our lungs or our bodies

and so as consumers have more information about products they want better assurance that those products are safe secure sustainable you

know additionally as the Confluence of Technology comes together you have second order effects of safety

so a component in and of itself might be safe but when you weave it together into a larger system and then add software to that system uh lots of things can go wrong

so it's you know this exponential explosion of the things that you have to think about when you're testing product safety

so uh give some more examples of the stuff that we're testing today which we didn't test let's say 10 20 years ago

you know to start with um I mean let's just start with uh the Confluence of now ai and the way that that's being embedded in products

I was at one of our largest uh retail customers a year ago and launching our retail center of excellence in Arkansas and they said to us hey there's AI embedded in this kids toy how do we think about this

and you know on one hand you know an individual toy with a you know couple pieces of algorithm in there may or may not present a safety hazard

but when you start thinking about the ways in which AI can power industri Trail controls or change the ways in which decisions are made about um the use of software in a complex vehicle now you have to start thinking about how do we validate that those algorithms we using uh the right data how do we consider uh the functional safety the second order effects of the way that those products are connected and how do we just think differently about this entire higher uh you know kind of integration and and Confluence of Technologies

so that's you know our most state-of-the-art extreme

but even on the Other Extreme you know something as simple as wiring cable you know we'll test the efficacy of wiring cable

and uh I had a customer call me uh a little over a year ago and say Hey you know the standards and the way that we're testing uh that worked back in the 1950s and 60s When contractors installing that cable used these types of tools

well fast forward technology has changed in the ways in which um buildings are built the ways in which contractors work

and so you should change your test methods you should think about changing the standards and advocating on our behalf for that uh

so there's just a constant Evolution because of technology in the ways in which uh you need to test things and and the types of testing we do

is there much difference between the various geographical areas so do we test more in Europe for instance than you do in the US

the US is certainly the most highly regulated market uh

in fact the US in many cases requires third-party testing not every Market requires thirdparty testing of of distinct products but the US uh has a much greater amount of third-party testing requirements

and that's from regulations but it's also from the way our insurance industry works and it's also quite frankly uh our Tor system here

and so that third party testing can really protect manufacturers in addition to protecting consumers

so that's um you know that's kind of how we think about it all over the world as a manufacturer you're trying to get products into multiple markets so you're looking for what's the common denominator of tests uh that can get your product all over the world and then what's distinct uh for each market

and and we help our customers maneuver through uh all of those regulations

if you test for It in America it's highly likely it will pass all of uh the European standards but not necessarily

and and I'll give some great examples even in the US uh Minnesota a couple years ago uh changed some regulations around use of I want to say cadmium and lithium in products

and so all of a sudden you know if you wanted to sell your product in Minnesota you had to meet these extra tests

well no manufacturer is only selling into Minnesota they're selling across the United States and then thinking about Europe

and so they start testing maybe a broader array than they otherwise would have needed

so again we help our customers think about what's the full set of markets you want to get your product into what's that set of tests that meets those criteria how do we do that most expeditiously

so that when that product lands in customs and the Customs agent is looking for the certification uh they know that it's it's passed that test for that market

what's the weirdest thing you test

what's the weirdest thing we test I'll tell you the most one of the most fun things we've tested uh two years ago we stacked up two million soda pop cans in our largescale testing lab

and you know our team probably worked uh you know a good portion of a week just to get those stacked

and then what happens is somebody walks through the middle and drops a lighted piece of paper and walks away

and we've got all these sensors and we're behind glass and they waited to see what would happen

and in that particular test and I don't even know whether they were testing labels or aluminum or the warehouse itself I don't I don't even know exactly who they were testing on behalf of

but what they thought was going to happen was that those aluminum cans would collapse upon themselves from the heat instead they exploded outwards

failed test but a lot of information uh for that customer in determining how they needed to either you know again manufactur that container or uh build out that warehouse to hold those types of products

now one of the reasons we think uh testing is a good industry is because it's a relatively cheap thing to do and it has huge implications for the product right um

so these kind of things what do they cost what do what does it cost to test something

it can range you know if you're if if I'm rubbing you know my sweater 10,000 times uh that has to be in and out in the lab in about 3 days and it's a pretty lowcost test

if you're testing let's say a product that's going to 26 markets around the world and it has a big uh life or health safety risk you know that can cross into um you know a much greater part of new product development you know into the hundreds of thousands of dollars range

H if you sell something uh that you have imported from some emerging market do you have to test it in the US do you have to have local testing

no you have to have passed the US tests and this is why we have Labs all over the world

so we try to be close to our Customer because in a lot of cases if a test fails they're going to want to go back to their research and development organization their new product development team and make the right adjustments

so we have Labs all over the world to be close to our customer and those labs know how to test to the US standards to the EU standards to local market standards in in every country around the world

how many people you have

15,000 in wow

yes and and that launches us into 110 markets around the world

any new uh regulatory requirements that you are particularly excited about

I think the one that we're most excited about right now is we were named the lead administrator on the US cyber trust Mark

and you know I viewed this it's probably version one of the type of product uh cyber safety that consumers are looking for uh

today as a consumer you really don't have good evidence that that product has been tested

so you know you always hear the horror stories of like the baby monitors and being hacked into uh

but more broadly giving consumers a view a lens into the fact that the products that that they're purchasing have passed a certain set of you know validation and standards um to make them safe

so so we're excited about that that's something new uh that the FCC has chosen us as a lead administrator

I think the other testing when you move to the Other Extreme um lithium ion batteries

the electrification of everything is such an important topic

and we saw in New York City alone uh you know over a dozen deaths a couple years ago from lithium ion batteries and ebikes uh spontaneously combusting

and that can be prevented and it can be prevented by following some UL standards around the uh battery enclosure around the connector

and uh we worked with the city of New York to turn those standards into law

and as we've seen uh some recent data it's evident that the number of deaths uh have reduced pretty significantly as a result of those standards being put into law

so those are the things that I think are the most fulfilling for our 15,000 employees is really seeing the evidence uh that we are working for a safer world

the fact that global trade seems to be going a bit in the wrong direction now what are the implications for you

yeah for us it's really the implications for our customers

and I like to say our customers are really smart and they've been worrying about this for you know almost a decade when the first set of of tariffs started shifting under the first Trump Administration customers started making different decisions

they make different decisions about their raw materials they make different decisions about their suppliers and their supply chain they may value engineer their products and swap out components uh

they may move the location of their Factory in many of those cases it does require that product to be retested uh to a new standard based on on those new um designs or those new manufacturing parameters

so we just stay by our customer side to help them maneuver through the decisions that they're making in response to the shifting tariff climate

who do you compete with

our competitors you know it's a it's a fascinating industry just in product testing uh

we estimate that um there are tens of thousands of companies you can be you know a a getting a PhD at a university and come up with a uh testing protocol for the specific you know product or uh use of of what you're studying and you could be a competitor to us

or you could be a large European publicly traded uh company uh that has you know similar longevity to what we have

we've been in business 100 30 years and uh some of our competitors have as well

this is a longstanding industry you know again connected to you know insurance and shipping originally but moving into as the industrial environment evolved and then consumer awareness evolved and global trade evolved um has really opened it up

so we've got competitors all over the world

and why do that Choose You is this reputation or Price or uh how does he work

I think our customers first and foremost they want to know that they can get their product to Market quickly and safely

and UL has the longest reputation and I believe the most recognizable brand uh in the North American markets

so the first and foremost question we get from customers is really you know they call do you have the technical expertise for this you know new product or all new and improve the next generation of product

the next question they ask is can you get it done quickly and then they want to know how much does it cost us um

but getting that product to Market you know I spent almost 20 years in manufacturing when you're investing in new product development and you want to get a product to Market and there's a delay because of testing uh that's really frustrating

so we need to be right there by our sides and making sure that you know we're the facilitator not the bottleneck in our customers processes

you mentioned you've been in business for 130 years now you came in I believe in 2019 what uh what have you done with the company since you took over

when I joined in 2019 UL was for profit but we were privately held by a single shareholder who was not for profit so it was a little unusual structure

and one of the reasons I joined you

so was it like a sleepy was it like a sleepy company

it was a company that actually prided ourselves in being under the radar

so there was this opportunity to introduce the UL story uh to a you know a broader population

one of the things we did was we rebranded so we were UL Inc when I joined and in the process of thinking about uh becoming public and in uh continuing that consistency and continuity of brand uh with our not for profit Affiliates uh we rebranded as UL Solutions

and uh created the fond Mobius logo and launched that at the beginning of 2022 so that was exciting

but where I had to start was really taking a company that had been for profit for about seven years and having them start to think about what would be the same and what would be different if we had more than one shareholder

because I knew that that was the likely outcome and that our singular shareholder was looking to monetize uh part of their position so that they could build an endowment and and focus on their primary Safety Science research in the areas that that they're really focused

so bringing our employees along without you know a strategic decision having been made about which direction the parent company was going to go in uh was an interesting exercise

you know we had to start talking about shareholders or the sharehold older and start thinking about you know how do we aim for best-in-class return start thinking about how do we tell this story in a way that is understandable and exciting to investors

and that was fun for me as a new CEO to join and to have that opportunity

what do you think uh being a a listed company has done to the culture has it changed much

it's absolutely changed and I think even the process of getting to that changed us

but one of the Great greatest things that being listed has done for us is it really has taken us above the radar and it's helped us attract talent

I think it's helped extend our brand and our value with our customers and certainly it positions us uh with the capital markets for growth in the future in an industry that's that's large and fragmented and growing

now I believe you are also a big uh user of data analytics and just how um How is uh more data and data analytics changing the way you uh you test and go about your business

there's a couple different ways we think about data and analytics almost 10% of our revenue is from software software is a service that we sell to our customers

and a great example of that is uh one of my favorite pieces of software is focused on having injested all of the chemical information from material safety data sheets into a system

using that data to help retailers understand how they live up to regulations around the transport the sale or the disposal of products containing chemicals in their environment

but what our retailers have discovered and where we help them is there's lots of derivative uses of that data for their environment

we're constantly thinking about how do we help those large retailers uh better use that data

and that's just one slice of the data we have we have 880,000 customers we've got information on billions of products

helping our customers better use that data to stay ahead of regulatory requirements or uh think about other derivative uses both in you know sustainability reporting or scope two scope three how it traces back through their component manufacturers or their raw material suppliers is an in Opportunity

the other way we're thinking about data and analytics is when you look at the future uh We've some customers uh we were just talking with a couple weeks ago uh some of the you know leading technologists in the world and their focus on the industrial metaverse

and you start looking at the opportunities for the way in which digital twin and simulation and other uses of data can help them work through that new product development process faster with better results is an area we're really focused on

so when you look at AI you mentioned that you are um testing for the use of AI in some products um could you elaborate a bit on that how do you how do you do that

well with regard to AI we launched a verified Mark as we call it uh last fall focused on uh AI PCS and AI servers

and and we put together you know a list of let's just call it 10 categories that we work with our customers to walk through to to achieve that Mark that can go onto a product

additionally uh those customers as well as many others have come to us and asked us to think about given that there aren't any standards or real regulations around this today what should they be thinking about

so we've been convening uh different groups of customers to work with our AI scientists around how should we be better thinking about what they should be building into their products as well as how we can help them advocate for regulation that's sensible and meets the needs of a pretty rapidly changing ever evolving technology

um it is something I I still believe we're in you know we're in early stages of AI um and we're barely even on the road map on Quantum we can go there too

but all of these Technologies really do change the ways in which humans are going to interact with products but also the way products are going to interact with each other

and that second order effect of functional safety and the way that AI is you know powering or directing or uh concluding how that product is going to work uh is is really it's it's an exciting opportunity but it's also daunting there's a lot that we don't yet know

how do you use it uh in your company to to simplify and automate

there's a number of different ways uh back to you know that software I was talking about uh on the uh The View for the retailers of chemicals that one of our largest retailers came to us and has asked us to help them um with uh you know what I would call you know the metadata about every product that they could possibly sell through their portals and then could possibly be returned to them

well pre AI that would take a team of people you know an extraordinary number of hours let's say to put in 500 attributes about a product uh

with AI you can reduce the time to do that uh dramatically

and so that's one you know just particular use case of how we're working with one customer

we're also really focused on the use of AI in thinking about um the ways in which we can help our customers uh reach faster conclusions about uh whether or not their product is safe

so a really good use case that we're focused on right now is uh Plastics

Plastics that are you know on printed circuit boards or surrounding you know consumer technology that plastic has to sit in a long-term thermal aging oven it could sit in there for 12 months 18 months before it's passed all those tests

and so thinking about how do we uh get data sooner about how it's performing in this you know kind of static environment uh to help draw those conclusions faster

so we're applying AI across the board in all of our areas

do you think um it will replace actual testing the fact that you have a digital twin and can can show uh the results I mean for instance now you can crash cars uh digitally right

yeah I think over time there's always opportunities uh for you know the digital to replace the physical um

I also think that there will continue to be these connection points that will be difficult to simulate in really highrisk uh situations um

there I think for a while there will continue to be the need to do both um

but it's something that we all have to stay ahead of and make sure that um what we're doing meets Regulators needs as well as customers needs

Jenny moving on to um to leadership you have been running both a manufacturing company and now a global safety organization how how has your leadership style changed

it definitely evolves uh there's a big difference between becoming CEO at a company where you had worked for 14 years and being a new CEO to a new company in a new industry quite frankly

and I I frequently say to my team kind of what got us here doesn't get you to there

when I was named CEO at USG corporation which was publicly traded at the time you know I knew the team I knew the business I visited every plant in the world I knew our customers I knew the relationships

but we still had the opportunity to sharpen and hone our strategy and um

I had the opportunity to spend time you know with our largest shareholders and uh hear what they thought

about coming into a private company as CEO uh it gave me the latitude to learn the industry to learn the team to learn the company to get out there and visit

and we didn't we had one shareholder so spending the time to think about what types of shareholders um would be most attracted to our business model and how did we get out there um in front of them uh to have them you know support our IPO that was an interesting kind of leadership assessment

an interesting way to shape my leadership team into thinking about our next stage of growth um

so the leadership has definit you my leadership my style has definitely evolved over time and it is different depending on the circumstances that you're in

I I also say I think the longer you're in this chair the less patient you become

why is that

I think you see patterns and I'm a pretty decisive person

and when you start to see a pattern of something that is familiar that you've already decided three years ago or five years ago you've seen this before um you just become less patient about getting to that conclusion and and having it executed

is that about people

I think it's it's people it's um but it's more than that it's you know relationships with the board it's relationships with shareholders it's relationships with customers um

you know I think being decisive and having a bias toward action and uh moving with speed uh is is extremely important and it's probably why I've become less patient over time

I kind of thought that age brought some patience

I had a stone on my desk for years that somebody gave me with the word patience written on it to remind me that I needed it um

so I'm not sure I ever had it um

so aging may have helped with some perspective there but it's uh not something that I've ever been known to have

are you a better leader now than you were

absolutely absolutely

in what ways

I've learned one of the challenges of leadership particularly when you're named CEO is how your voice carries

and learning the lesson that you can say something and it's interpreted in a really unintentional fashion

and I yeah I've told this story a number of times and it it it really hit home for me uh early in being a CEO uh

so I was at my former company I got in the elevator and I was with one of our Engineers who was from a plant and he was wearing a really nice car heart jacket

and it was embroidered on the sleeve uh they had won uh best employer for the region

and I said wow that is a nice jacket that is so great you guys won that award and what wow what a nice jacket car heart jackets are really nice

and and he said thank you 45 minutes later I got an email from the plant manager that said hey Jenny what size are you

and I thought well I wasn't trolling to get a free jacket

but then I realized that my voice carried my voice carried that that engineer felt seen and heard that he called his boss to say hey Jenny complimented Us in the elevator and that that mattered

and it it really taught me this this lesson that you can say things and people interpret it different ways and you want to make sure that they're as much as possible interpreting it in the way that you intended

and so to be very careful about your voice that it can't be used in an unintended fashion

and and that's something I've become more deliberate about as a CEO than I was in my early days

what are some of the ways you use it in an intendent fashion

it's funny my father was a high school football coach and you know he had you know colorful expressions and great language but he was a pretty um tempered guy

and I remember the story I I I tell the story I remember a time at a big game and he threw his jacket in the air and he was you know yelling at the rough

and the next morning we won the game and the next morning I said to him I'm like wow dad you were really mad

and he said no he said but sometimes you got to throw the jacket they need to know that you know that they got it wrong

and I think that using your leadership voice effectively to you know respectfully and honestly point out where there's opportunities for improvement sometimes you got to throw that jacket

most of the time you don't and if you throw it too often people will stop paying attention to it

and so it's just it's I I I think about my father often and I think about that story and it's you know every once in a blue moon I think it's time to throw a jacket but most of the time you find another way to communicate appropriately

what about uh using the voice in the opposite way so compliments and praise

I think that's one of the most incredible things by having being a leadership position is just how you can how you can use it to really see people uh you know lift them up uh

a compliment from you means more than from some other people it's a wonderful thing right

it is it is

and I'm GNA I'm going to give two different examples of times where I've I've really felt this and and agree that it's very important

one was um long before I was CEO I was CIO at my former company and we were doing awards for uh employees across the organization

and a woman that that received an award who I had spoken about afterwards wrote me a note and the note said Jenny I knew I was getting the award I knew that you were going to announce it and I knew you were going to say a few words about me what I didn't know was how good it was going to make me feel and how long I continue to feel that way

and I I I've always kept that note because I I I think it's it's a great example of people never forget the way you make them feel

de one of the things that I continued to do when I joined UL that my predecessor had done was send a Blog once a week to all employees

and uh I'm insistent that you know it's just it's whatever's on my mind it can tie to what's happening in the company

but one of the things I really like to do if I've been out traveling or if I've been in a meeting and somebody's presented something interesting I really like to Showcase and highlight our employ employees just through my blog

and I get some great notes back from people of wow thank you for noticing or oh our team was so proud that you mentioned them

and that positive reinforcement I mean we've got 15,000 employees I always say everybody rolls out of bed every day wanting to do a good job and they want to feel like their work matters and they matter

and the more that I can highlight and showcase that uh I think uh just the better the culture is and the organization is

do you think people tell you the truth

I think the more senior you get in a company the more deliberate you have to be about finding people who are willing to tell you the truth uh

I think having people around you uh the ones who come in and tell you what you need to hear whether or not you want to hear it is extremely important and knowing who those people are uh and ensuring that you provide the opportunity for them to provide that input is extremely important

uh there's a lot of people who only want to tell you what you want to hear and and that is a recipe for disaster

so we are introducing a new award uh in our company it's a it's a it's an ice hockey puck and it's called the straight Puck award

okay basically for people who are telling me things I you know uh the real truth

and I think it's quite fun we're kicking it off now

so you can actually physically give them a puck you know it's just like hey thanks for the straight Puck go har is a straight PU

and uh so we see how that goes I think it's quite fun actually

oh I think that's excellent

well how would you describe the corporate culture

our corporate culture is 13 years old so there's a lot of you know long-standing Traditions as well as habits

uh we have some employees they've been here 45 years 40 years 35 years and and these are thought leaders and and they understand the science and the engineering and the business and and they've you know they're just really fun and interesting to be around

and at the same time our culture you know grounded you know founded by the you know Underwriters electrical Bureau uh can be risk averse

one of the things and and that's good for our customers our customers always say like you know somebody's got to tell us the bad news that our product you know isn't safe or isn't working um glad you're here to do that

but

balancing out evolving our culture into um you know risk appropriate at the right speed is really important uh

but one of the greatest things about our culture is how connected our employees are to our mission

uh in our Employee Engagement survey over 80 I think 85% of our employees uh said that our mission matters to them personally working for a safer World matters to them

and I think that creates this unification of no matter what country you're in what lab you're working in what customer you're working with you feel that same sense of purpose

now you work for a safer world and um uh I think you were a lifeguard for seven years so are you like totally paranoid about safety are you just like one of these people who are afraid of everything or

I'm not afraid of everything but I am my I have two daughters they're in their 20s

and when I was named to this job they said the headline should be mom safety freak runs safety company

and I have always been attuned to you know managing risk appropriately risk management is important and

you working in a manufacturing environment a heavy industrial environment you know we mined we had paper mills we had you know wallboard flying off lines at 600 feet a minute you know dangerous environments

plant man you know we had a plant manage couple people who were missing a hand and you know other terrible things can happen to people in these environments

so I've always been attuned to focusing on how do you eliminate unnecessary risks

you know life is full of risks but you know it's it's you know better to wear a bike helmet than not

why do you think your daughters uh think you are a safety freak

cuz I made them wear bike helmets when they were like six years old riding their tricycles

but um but I think they also they know that I've always and it's it's probably the project manager at me as well that you just constantly have to think about you know expect the best plan for the worst

do you like hold the handrail when you go down the stairs

uh three points of contact absolutely

and in fact um we do safety moments at the beginning of all of our meetings and we pick different topics and we leave it up to the leaders

but if you are walking down a hallway with me and I see you on a stair rail uh and you're not holding if staircase and you're not holding the rail you're going to hear me say hey three points of contact it will save your teeth maybe a concussion

what is that drives you the thing that drives me

I've always I've always been a leader when I was a little kid I organized the neighborhood into you know teams or games or put on the show

I've always wanted to feel like I was making a difference in every job I've ever had you know

I wanted to feel like there was a connection into uh a way that was making the world a little bit of a better place uh

you know I'm driven by uh being a mother I look at my daughters and I hope that uh you know they have even greater opportunities than I have had

and I hope that as I'm paying it forward for others in the work environment that others are doing the same for the Next Generation for all of our kids

what's the first thing you do in the morning

first thing I do in the morning is drink a cup of coffee I am a non-functioning human being without that that caffeine uh

and then I usually when do you when do you wake up

about 5:00 every day

I was not naturally a morning person but being in the construction industry for almost two decades turned me into that

and then once I became head of international having teams all over the world I've just learned you you got to be up that early and check email and make sure that everything is uh staying afloat everywhere

what are some important pieces of advice that you have got during the years from people you respect

one of the biggest pieces of advice is take the time to listen

if if you take that time back to do people tell you the truth if you take the time you will learn what matters and you will learn what motivates and drives people

so taking the time to listen early in my career I had someone point out to me that I was always in a rush you know back to that lack of patience

and that sitting down and starting a meeting and and saying you know just taking the the 30 seconds you know hey how was your weekend how was your daughter's school play how was you know how's your birthday what are your plans and just listening because you can learn so much

and the next great piece of advice that I give to uh every uh you know kind of post col newly employed is become a really good project manager

what does that mean

it's it's figure out first and foremost what problem are you trying to solve and then how much time does that take what resources do you need do you need money what issues are going to arise what risks are out there what communication is needed with others to get it done to get that problem solved

and then always come back to did you solve that problem was it the right problem to solve and then how do you close that Loop and do it again because so many times people solve the wrong problem

absolutely well uh Jennifer you have solved lots of very important problems over the Year big thank you for for making the world a safer place and a big thanks for being on her today

thank you so much Nikolai it was such a pleasure to be here