Welcome everyone to the OnPy podcast.

I'm Steve Pac

and I'm John Michael McGrath.

Today on the pod, remember the TV show Better Call Saul?

Well, some Ontario parents are thinking if you want something done, better call Paul, as in education minister Paul Kandra.

We'll tell you why.

It's been a snowy, cold, but meaningful remembrance week in province as we remember those who through the years fought for our country.

We'll also have a follow-up on last week's fall economic statement with economist Brian Lewis from the U of Monk School to find out where those hits and misses are.

And in your column, my column, I'll be talking about a recent court case about cyclist safety in Ontario, but not the one you're thinking of.

Mhm. And I'll have a last word on this province's six living former premers, all of whom have been featured in a special TVO series called The Premier Files.

It's Friday, November 14th, 2025. So, let's get to it.

JMM, our traditional sugar to start with.

Yes. Yes.

And then what the hell are you wearing today?

Now, for those who are listening as opposed to watching us, you probably should describe a bit about what is all over you.

Now, I have worn this shirt before on the podcast, so I apologize for the repeat, but it is it is a a a shirt foned with the various Godzilla monsters and Godzilla adjacent monsters of that film franchise.

But there's supposed to be something kind of, at least my thinking, John Michael, is that there should be something kind of relevant to this week in what we choose to wear.

What is relevant to this week about Godzilla and Dragons?

Well, I saw something funny on the internet about Godzilla, and it made me laugh so much that I'm still laughing about it several days later, and it's it's sort of the perfect intersection of things about me that maybe our listeners could guess, but basically, it was, you know, uh my wife forwarded me an Instagram post of somebody.

It's this just this picture of Godzilla stomping through Tokyo, and the caption was, "For Godzilla, all cities are walkable cities."

Okay, that's not bad.

I I I loved that so much. and and it just gave me a giggle.

And I have, as I say, I'm still chuckling about I'm a simple man, Steve. I have simple pleasures.

I'm still laughing about this several days later. And I decided to honor that uh by uh wearing my Godzilla uh t-shirt today.

Fill your boots, baby. Works for me.

That's okay. That's okay.

I, on the other hand, decided to do something a little more traditional and consistent with the theme of the OnPaly podcast.

And also with the column I wrote this week, I mentioned in the intro, we're talking about former premers in the column I wrote for the website.

And I've got a former premier on today.

And I know I've talked about this guy before, but I find him to be one of the most fascinating premers in Ontario history.

We've had 44 elections in the history of the province of Ontario from 1867, Confederation, until the last one we had earlier this year.

The Conservatives and the Liberals have won every single election except two.

You know, one of them. You were alive for one of them.

Yes.

Bob Ray and the NDP in 1990.

This guy, I'll stand up a little so you can see him here.

Okay, that's Ernest Drury who was the other non-liberal non-conservative who won an election and he won it on this date, November 14th, 1919.

He was sworn in 106 years ago today, our eighth premier, United Farmers of Ontario, right?

Not a liberal, not a Tory.

United Farmers of Ontario.

I always f what one of the things that I find most fascinating about him is he didn't even run in the election in which he was sworn in as premier. Right?

The UFO won the most number of seats, but the party actually didn't have a leader.

They were sort of a protest movement.

They thought they'd throw some candidates in there.

They ended up winning the most number of seats and so they asked Ernest Drury to come out of retirement and become the leader again, which he did.

He then had to run in a bi-election the following year in 1920 before he could assume his seat in the legislature.

They only had just like Bob Ray only one term.

He then ran federally for the farmers a few times in future federal elections but never um never won.

And until Bill Davis died few years ago.

He was our oldest living premier.

He made it to age 90.

No other premier made it to 90.

Mr. Davis made it to 92.

He died in 1968.

So in my lifetime this guy died.

And for those of you who live in Milton, you may know the name.

The EC Drury School for the Deaf is still in operation in Milton, Ontario.

So, I don't know.

There's something about Drury that's always fascinated me.

And he Okay, here's a bit here's a bit of a question for you, and this will prove that we don't set this up ahead of time.

One other premier actually in your lifetime.

Okay.

Became premier of Ontario without having a seat in the legislature.

Drury was the first.

Who was the next one?

Be Ernie Eves.

Good for you.

Yes. Well done.

Ernie Ees won his convention in 2002. He was out of politics at the time. did not have a seat.

So, he became premier without a seat and he had to do what Jury did.

Anyway, there we go.

You have uh twice referred to him as as fascinating, one of the most fascinating premier.

Knowing you, I have to ask, are you preparing to write a book about this?

No.

And I'll tell you why.

One's been done.

There's a really good thick book about Ernest. It's already been written.

So, um,

as I would say, my work here is done.

I don't need to do it.

And with that, shall we get down to business?

Let's do it.

Off to issue one.

Remember the TV show about the slimy lawyer Saul Goodman was called Better Call Saul.

It was the prequel to Breaking Bad.

Well, somebody at Queens Park this week said there should be a new version called Better Call Paul, as in Paul Kandra, the education minister, who seems to have his fingers in numerous pies these days.

Whether it's defenistrating school board trustees, signing child care agreements, installing supervisors to take over school boards, or dealing with parents of autistic children.

Apparently, you'd better call Paul.

JMM, what's the story?

So, as you've indicated, there's a bunch of headlines uh from the last little while.

So, we're going to start with school trustees.

Um, as our listeners are probably aware, the minister has appointed supervisors for five Ontario school boards uh including both Toronto school boards, the uh Catholic and and public school boards.

Uh these supervisors have been tasked with uh rooting out uh misspending and inefficiency uh by these boards at the trustee level.

Uh this was prompted of course by a series of headlines including the um infamous sculpture hunting trip I guess I would call it to Italy uh by some trustees at a Catholic board.

U the minister went as far as to introduce legislation vacating the seat of one particular uh trustee who refused to repay the costs of that trip.

Uh that trustee recently resigned.

So that that legislation is now moot.

That just shows you just how far uh the government is willing to go in these cases.

And we never saw that before, did we?

A a a bill brought in to deal with one trustee in one board somewhere in the province.

I've never seen that before.

I've certainly never seen anything like that.

I I could not think of any kind of precedent for it.

Um now, what we have since learned is that these supervisors are actually going to be able to uh bill the school boards.

Uh it's not the the province paying for these funds directly, though of course the province does pay the uh lion's share of school budgets.

Um the supervisors will be able to bill these school boards for not quite $400,000 per year as a maximum.

Uh that's $350,000 for their time and uh $20,000 in expenses.

And uh we're looking at potentially two years of uh uh work that these supervisors are going to have to do.

Uh so uh a very large sum and and just to put this sum in context perhaps I mean the total uh salary cost for all of the uh trustees in the Toronto Public School Board uh is is a bit over $500,000.

So this is a substantial chunk of change we're talking about.

And this this is 400,000 for one guy

for one supervisor

compared to a half a million for the entire board.

Exactly.

Of trustees.

Yes.

Okay.

uh you know, ever since Mike Harris, trustees have been functionally a volunteer position.

Uh those school boards do uh offer trustees honoraria.

Um now, of course, Minister Clandra says that he fully supports the supervisors in in the important work that he says they are doing and uh he will not be uh shocked if they bill the full amount uh that they are