[Anna Martin]: Love now and you fall in love. Love was stronger than anything.

[Anna Martin]: For the love of love.

[Anna Martin]: And I love you more than anything.

[Anna Martin]: You're still love.

[Anna Martin]: From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. And my guest today is Kyla Harris. I hadn't been talking to Kyla for very long before the two of us were discussing her urethra. Now, talking about your urethra with someone you've just met might be uncomfortable for some people. I would say probably most people, but Kyla has lots of experience talking about how her body feels, how it works, what it needs. Kyla is disabled. That's how she describes herself. And her disability means that she needs someone there to help her use the bathroom, make food, take a shower. Everything she wants or needs to do is a group project. And that becomes especially interesting when it comes to her sex life. Kyla is super open about that, too. And I will say we get pretty explicit in this conversation. She made a TV show called We Might Regret This, intimate scenes, and it's inspired by what it's been like for her to live and love and get it on as a disabled person. Our conversation made me blush, which is not easy to make me do. It made me snort laugh, which actually unfortunately is kind of easy to make me do. and it made me totally rethink what intimacy can mean. Kyla Harris, welcome to Modern Love.

[Kyla Harris]: Thanks, Hannah. I feel very welcomed.

[Anna Martin]: Okay, Kyla, you had an accident that changed your life when you were 15 years old. But even before all of that happened, I want a picture of 15-year-old you. What was happening in your world? Were you dating? Did you have crushes? what was going on?

[Kyla Harris]: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I think 15-year-old me was this kind of nubile character that was starting to really understand the power of sexuality and I was already incredibly developed. So, I had I had the tits and ass to to rival JLo and

[Anna Martin]: bile and tits and ass. I'm loving the range here. Yeah,

[Kyla Harris]: those are my references.

[Anna Martin]: I love it. Okay. Yes, Jayla.

[Kyla Harris]: So, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, when I was growing up, it was an era of the kind of heroin chic, and I felt like I really wasn't represented out there, and I had this incredibly curvy body. I had, you know, large breasts, a large bum, and I was so relieved when I saw JLo come kind of twerking into the scene. Um, because it felt like I was finally seeing myself

[Anna Martin]: out there. Were you curious about sex at this point in your life?

[Kyla Harris]: So, yeah, I I definitely had had sexual experiences. Um the first time the first time that I was fingered was on a ski bus uh when we were going on a ski trip. Um

[Anna Martin]: isn't there so many layers of clothing involved in skiing? I mean, this is

[Kyla Harris]: this is this is next level, right? I I just went in next level. Really? I really don't ski, but in my imagination, a ski suit is like a onesie. Like getting the fingers in there would be very difficult. So,

[Kyla Harris]: yeah. Yeah. No, it was um it it I and I don't I don't know. There was like the thrill of being on a a bus cuz we were on on a bus like with the other students and um and I tried to give my first hand job which was I would say not successful. I wouldn't ask him. I don't know.

[Anna Martin]: Don't be sorry. Thank you. Yeah. And probably in a onesie.

[Kyla Harris]: So, so I I and I loved like the thrill of that. Like I loved the thrill of knowing that I was this sexual being and knowing that I could Yeah. Just just knowing that I could use my body in this way.

[Anna Martin]: I'm going to transition. It's no easy way to transition, but I will say you were on a school trip when you had this accident that I referenced at the top of our conversation. Can you tell me whatever you'd like about what happened?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. So, I was on a school trip and um I broke my neck and I I knew something had happened right away. And when I was um after I'd broken my neck, I was lying there and I remember so distinctly feeling this unbelievable sense of calm and peace and feeling the light through my eyes, the sunlight through my eyes. I kept my eyes closed and it was almost euphoric. And then I said, "Can everyone just back away? Just give me I'll get up. just give me a couple minutes. I'm going to get up. But I but I didn't. And I was um because we were in a really rural area for the school trip, I was strapped to a picnic table and put in a boat and rode ashore and put in an ambulance and went to um the closest hospital.

[Anna Martin]: Thank you for sharing that. Your parents come, I assume, quite quickly. Did you have awareness of of what was going on?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. So, my dad Okay. So, my dad was a builder and I'd spent that summer helping him um paint exterior the exterior of houses, do ups, do up stuff, whatever he was working on. And I' I'd saved up money to buy these board shorts that I absolutely loved. And I was wearing these board shorts and they said, "We're gonna have to cut these off." And I was devastated.

[Anna Martin]: I listen, the 15-year-old and me who also saved up to buy. I'm feeling that hard. Wait, just to sort of memorialize them, do you remember what they look like?

[Kyla Harris]: Oh, 100%. Yeah. I'd say like a hot red with um some obviously Hawaiian white habiscus flowers all over I mean it was the '9s.

[Kyla Harris]: So I so the first thing I felt devastated by was my board shorts being cut off not the idea that I broke my neck.

[Anna Martin]: Did you feel like indignation? Disbelief. Do you remember what was running through your mind?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. Oh completely completely. You know I felt absolutely indignation. And I also felt um like immediately I was like, "Oh gosh, this is just a bone that's going to have to heal." I thought, "It's just going to be like a broken arm. It's just a bit more annoying because I'm probably going to have to wear a neck brace, but I'm sure I'll be fine in 3 months." And I remember calling my best friend and try saying in 3 months time we're going to be why don't you come around and let's do let's go skiing again.

[Anna Martin]: Huh. So, so the extent had not sunk in yet?

[Kyla Harris]: No. And and and then soon after um this this doctor came in who my mom and I later called Dr. Doom.

[Anna Martin]: Dr. Doom.

[Kyla Harris]: And he came in and he he said, "You're never going to be able to walk again to me and my mom. No, I'm sorry. No um cushioning, no sensitivity, empathy. uh that I was a young girl who had just had not really not understood what was going on. And my automatic thought was, well, then I don't want to live. And it wasn't until I'd say about 10 years later that I realized that the reason why I had that reaction was because I'd know nothing about wheelchair users. I'd know nothing about what life might look like or feel like or be like if I wasn't able to walk. And you know, I'm not I'm not able to use my hands. I'm tetroplegic. Um I can move my arms. But it it was always this emphasis on on walking, on standing, on running, on skiing, on swimming.

[Anna Martin]: I mean I mean it it that feels like with that Dr. Doom. I'm glad now it's a bit of a joke, but that is probably the worst way that someone could share this news with you. You're realizing in that moment that your life is going to be completely different, right? Completely different from anything you'd envisioned about what your future would be.

[Kyla Harris]: Absolutely.

[Anna Martin]: That is such a heavy thing to carry. Were you sharing how you were feeling with your parents or was this something you kept for yourself?

[Kyla Harris]: I'm not sure that I shared that with my parents, but I think it was one of those things that I I ended up living. You know, it was day after day. It was just very much about being in the moment and being with my changing body and understanding what that meant. It w it it was really like being in the Matrix and not being asked if you want to take the red pill or the blue pill, but it being shoved down your damn throat.

[Anna Martin]: Dang. That's a way worse version of that scene, I would say.

[Kyla Harris]: Same result, but that same result. Same result.

[Anna Martin]: We started our conversation by talking about, you know, sex and crushes and and that kind of like fizzy feeling of being 15 and also the discovery you were uh undergoing with your own body with its power. I guess I wonder like after this accident, were you worried about what your love life was going to look like? Like did you worry about well will I have a partner or these classic teenage experiences of you know sex and romance? Was that running through your mind?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. So about 10 days after I was in intensive care, I went to a physical rehabilitation center and I was on the um the I don't know why they called it adult young adult ward of this uh rehabilitation center

[Anna Martin]: like the teen floor.

[Kyla Harris]: Yes. Okay. Yes. And I would say it was kind of like a mixed boarding school with mobility equipment.

[Anna Martin]: Tell me more about what you mean by that.

[Kyla Harris]: Okay. Teens equal horny as [ __ ]

[Anna Martin]: 100.

[Kyla Harris]: Oh my god. Then you're all on this floor.

[Anna Martin]: Okay. Can you tell he didn't go to boarding school? I was like, so you're taking classes. Okay. You're talking about like people are horny for each other and there's like sexual tension flying all over between rooms or

[Kyla Harris]: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So, there was a cafeteria and there were like in the cafeteria it was the exact same thing as high school. It would be like there's a group of the cool kids and I remember the nurses were also maybe only like 10 years older than us like not they were also all like total gossips. So, I remember I remember one of the nurses coming to me and saying, "Okay, I don't know if you know about the guy next door, but he was shot in the back." And guess what? And I was like, "Go on. Go on, Jodie." And she This is like a total breach of the hypocratic oath or whatever, but I'm like, "I'm all for it. Keep going. Tell me the deets. Give me the tea." And she and she was like, "So he so one one of the things that disabled people like when you're paralyzed you experience are spasms sometimes like which are like contractions of muscle muscles." So she goes so he has some quite unusual spasms in that his penis spasms and he will have an erection for hours like like Viagra uh uh erections. You're like you don't say. And then she was like and his girlfriend will come and ride him for hours. So this is so this is what this is this is what the kind of uh boarding school uh experience I had.

[Anna Martin]: I am getting a picture my friend. Wow. Okay. God. I mean is it I mean it sounds fun actually which is probably a weird word to put to that. Everything felt heightened. Every every moment of joy was the most impossibly joyous thing you could experience. Every moment of difficulty was like experiencing a thousand heartbreaks. Huh.

[Kyla Harris]: So while there was this kind of like sexual experimentation going on and this horniness and this what can I do in this body and where am I on on the in the kind of ranking of popularity. Then then there was this, you know, at one point I um I I got pneumonia and one of my lungs collapsed and I had to go back into emergency into int into the intensive care unit. So there was this incredible there was a taste of death in your mouth when you weren't tasting someone else's tongue.

[Anna Martin]: Did you just come up with that now?

[Kyla Harris]: I did. That That's for free. That's for you.

[Anna Martin]: Well, I guess I want to know like specifically for you in the context of this horny teen wing. Were you exploring with someone like what was your what was happening with you?

[Kyla Harris]: Yes. Yeah. So, I always had visitors, loads of visitors. Yeah. And it became this kind of group and you'd see the regulars uh you know you'd be you'd be living with with the other disabled people and you'd see their the regulars of their friends who would come by. Yeah. Their best friend who would be there every week or you know my best friend um flew in from Ontario and there was this guy who was really good-looking who was disabled and had had an accident a couple months before me. So he, you know, he he felt a little senior to me on the uh in the in the cafeter. And um and my friend Caitlyn um had come over and they hit it off.

[Anna Martin]: Oh, your best friend hit it off with him. And his best friend who was visiting him regularly, he and I hit it off. So our first double date was was essentially on a hospital ward. Wow. Okay. So, there was this this guy's best friend you start hooking up with. Is that what it was?

[Kyla Harris]: Okay. But before that, I mean, I was also making out with other disabled people as well. Obviously, you were I mean, there were loads of really hot people there. Like, we're like the the outdoorsy risktakers, right? Like, we're a type and they were all there and it was 24 hours a day. I mean, we were all living together for months. How could you not make out with all of them?

[Anna Martin]: 100%. But this friend you start hooking up with. What is that like for you? Because you'd had these sexual experiences as you mentioned. You know, how could we forget the ski trip, but now you're in this body that's changed, right?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. I think it felt like a new life. Huh. I think it felt like the life that I had had completely gone and would never be the same. Even though I was in denial, I still knew I would never be the same. Even if I started walking again, I would never be the same. And when I was with him and when we would be intimate in in very kind of innocent ways, he gave me the hope that I would be loved again and that I could be sexy again and that maybe he wouldn't be the only one that would think that.

[Anna Martin]: Can I ask like is there a moment a specific moment that sticks out when you think about him and your time together?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. So, I you know I was a virgin up until this point. Um although apparently virginity is a myth as well. It's just an expansion and contraction of the of the vaginal walls.

[Anna Martin]: Different episode, but hear that.

[Kyla Harris]: Um, and we'd been kind of seeing each other. He'd been coming around. We'd been making out. Um, and I went back to my parents' home and I was there for my birthday and it was the worst birthday I've ever had, my 16th birthday. But this guy came to visit me at my parents' place and he by that time I was kind of um I was less fragile so I was able to be he would just kind of lift me in like a wedding threshold style and throw me on the couch or I'd sit in the wherever. Yeah. And I remember I was sitting beside him and he was wearing this white hoodie that I loved um obviously the '9s obviously. And I had my legs over him and I turned to him and I went, "You, me, sex soon."

[Anna Martin]: That that just came forth from where? I love that.

[Kyla Harris]: I I don't know. I think it came forth from from a sense of from a sense of excitement, from a sense of heart and desire and joy and to feel like I was safe with him. and also safe in my body again.

[Anna Martin]: Again, only as much as you want to share. But did yumi sex soon happen?

[Kyla Harris]: Of course it did. I mean, who would refuse that?

[Anna Martin]: Oh my gosh. I mean, listen, again, as we've sort of referenced virginity, kind of a construct, but how was it to have sex for the first time again sort of as you're figuring out what your body can do?

[Kyla Harris]: I think at that point it felt like my virginity was just a bit of a tickbox. Yeah. You know, I I don't really remember the sex that we had the first time I had sex or penetrative sex. But even though I was starting to feel like I had no control over my body and that it was, you know, I I'd pee when I didn't want to pee or, you know, [ __ ] when I didn't want to [ __ ] Um, it gave me a sense of being back into my body.

[Anna Martin]: Huh. Because of the pleasure. Because of the because of how? Yeah.

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. The pleasure. And, you know, I I I think I realized just recently that I to go to the to go to the bathroom, I need to catheterize. Um, and that's just like a plastic tube that you insert through the urethra, pee comes out, you chuck it away. One use wonder. And to do that, I need the assistance of personal assistance, which I know we'll get into. But um I think that I disassociated from my genitalia in so many ways because it didn't feel like it my vulva didn't feel like it was my own. It felt like it was a medical transaction used for medical transactions. And I think feeling like I was desired, feeling desire, feeling pleasure was a way of reclaiming maybe part of me that I thought I'd lost. Um

[Anna Martin]: I I before we sort of move on to the the caregivers in that relationship in your life, I do want to know I would say many of us when we start having sexual intimate experiences are not perhaps the best at vocalizing what we want or what feels good for us. But it strikes me that you two would have to or you tell me I would assume that there'd be a lot more communication necessary between you two in sort of intimate situations and I I guess I wonder h how were you learning to communicate uh in that way?

[Kyla Harris]: Well, I think as much as I felt I was sexually liberated at the age of 16, I also lol um I I also very much wasn't. And I think I'd internalized a lot of the man takes the lead and takes the initiative. I think that being disabled and being in my body and very much having to vocalize what I needed on a daily basis, whether it was like, "Oh, you've strapped my shoe on too tight," or um, "This is pinching the back of my neck," or having to really attune to those moments and then vocalize them. I think helped me in the bedroom because I would then be like, I want to get on top of you right now, you know, pull me on top of you or like like I think the way that I then initiated sex was that I had to communicate what I wanted them to do. Hm.

[Anna Martin]: Okay, Kylo, we've been talking about how your accident affected your relationships with your parents, with this guy, but there's this other kind of relationship that enters your life that will be a part of your life. It's your relationship with your caregivers. These are people who you hire to come to your house to help you. Can you tell me like what kind of assistance did you need at this stage? Can you kind of paint a picture for me of the type of care required in a typical day?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah, absolutely. So, I needed 24-hour assistance and I didn't know or have any sort of rule book or anything that could guide you on what that meant. But I essenti I became an employer at 16 and had to interview, pick, train all of the PAs, which I call them personal assistants, um to do my 24-hour care. And and we we often picked them. And I say we cuz my parents were also involved at times. And because I was living with my parents, it became this kind of small community. And so they would also kind of work with my PAs too to provide me with whatever I needed.

[Anna Martin]: Wow. And tell me what this meant, like the morning, the night routines. What was

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. What did you need help with? So, I mean, anything that you would need help with if you weren't able to to use your hands or legs. That makes sense. Yeah. But that kind of breaks down into I would have stretches every morning um and evening. I needed help with catheterization, going, you know, going pee. Uh also going poo, I needed help with that. help getting dressed, undressed, preparing meals, um driving me to appointments, places, school, whichever. So, anything that you can think of, I would need someone there.

[Anna Martin]: I mean, I you're talking about communicating with different PAs, and it strikes me that that is a ton of communication to handle. How did you how was that for you learning how to speak to all these different people and communicate with all these different people in this way?

[Kyla Harris]: I mean, it was a rocky road and still is to this day. I think that I never wanted to be an employer of PAs and here I had kind of anywhere from six to nine people that I would employ that would be coming in and out of my house that I have to schedule and pay. And it felt it felt and still does feel like a lot of work and that you know that I needed to be professional in the middle of the night at 38 when I needed to pee, you know. C

[Anna Martin]: can you tell me I mean I'm just really curious what that means like in action because I like how would you try to professionally communicate to a caregiver who's you know on the night shift or whatever I need to.

[Kyla Harris]: So, I always use my phone and they'd have a cell phone and I'd call them or I'd have like a buzzer in the house and they would come and I'd say, "I need I need to pee." And if I had someone sleeping beside me, they would try and do their best to not disrupt them. Like the boyfriend, for example. for example, and they would so then I'd I'd have a catheter while they were while whoever was sleeping beside me um or not. And yeah, it just it just became normal.

[Anna Martin]: And at the time I I hired a lot of friends or friends of friends when you were uh like a teenager at your parents house.

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. Well, I mean, even up until when I was about 25. Huh. Yeah. Because I think that I felt like I would be less disabled if I had my friends doing my care.

[Anna Martin]: Explain that to me.

[Kyla Harris]: I mean, it doesn't make any sense really, right? like it doesn't my my it's not like my needs would change because there would a diff there would be a different person doing my care but I felt like it was a way that I could hang out with a friend they could help me with everything I need and they'd get some money for it. Yeah. So it seemed like a sweet deal.

[Anna Martin]: I feel like I I it actually does make sense at least like on an emotional level to me. I think it's like, you know, this is someone who would hang out with you, you know, without getting paid. And it just so happens that they're hanging out with you and they're helping you with some stuff. You know, we already have this intimacy. We're just sort of taking it to another level as opposed to this person who you hire who's a stranger. You have to acclimate yourself to and and and to you.

[Anna Martin]: You're mentioning using hiring friends as PAs. Um, and there is there comes a point where you ask one of your close friends to be one of your caregivers. Can you talk about that? How did that arrangement come about?

[Kyla Harris]: Um, I went to film and TV school in Vancouver and I met a friend there called Lee Getty and we just instantly clicked and hit it off. And I think even within like a month of meeting her, I'd already given her my house keys. I was like, "Just come and whatever you know." When you know exactly when you know, you know. And to be alone, to have fun, to do whatever we wanted to do, to go wild. She learned how to cathize me in basically any situation you could imagine.

[Anna Martin]: You know, I ask about this too as kind of a transition to a scene in your TV show which you made with Lee. Uh, this is a TV show called We Might Regret This. It is tragically not available in the US yet, but I've seen it. It's great. It's inspired by some of your experiences. The one I'm referencing is actually a catheterization that happens in an unlikely place. You need to explain what's happening in the scene. Can you do that for me?

[Kyla Harris]: Yes. So, I play Freya, a character who has the same disability as me, and Elena Sorrel plays the character of Joe, who is my best friend and PA at the time.

[Anna Martin]: So, you uh sure you remember how to do

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. Catherization is my middle name. And we are in an alleyway and Joe is on her knees with my legs spread on either side of her body.

[Anna Martin]: Do you see the urethra?

[Kyla Harris]: Uh, yeah, of course I do. Oh, there it is. Sneaky little booger. Slowly. I know.

[Anna Martin]: And I would say there's a part of this in which uh your character's pee splashes into the best friend's eye.

[Kyla Harris]: What?

[Anna Martin]: Oh, it really stings. Don't lick your lips.

[Kyla Harris]: Oh, and it's salty.

[Kyla Harris]: Yes, of of course. Yeah, that's just so normal to me now that I just completely forgot to mention that.

[Anna Martin]: Is this is this clip is this scene in the TV show inspired by true events in your life?

[Kyla Harris]: So, I would say that nothing in the TV series has actually happened. Like, none of the scenes have actually happened. However, have I peed in an alleyway? Yes. Has Lee had pee on her face? Yes. Was that pee mine? Yes.

[Anna Martin]: I mean, it's, you know, I'm watching this scene. It it to me, um, it it expands my idea of what a friendship can be. Like, you know, I love my friends. I feel like I'm really there for them, but I I don't necessarily know what it feels like to have their pee in my eye, for example. Like,

[Kyla Harris]: for example, I don't know

[Anna Martin]: yet. Do these I mean in these moments where again not exactly the scene you know you didn't live exactly the scene but these moments of intense intimacy with Lee did it feel like you were becoming closer as a friends or was it a different kind of closeness? I'm curious.

[Kyla Harris]: Absolutely. No, I think that whenever I have someone do my care, there's an inherent intimacy in that. But when you have someone that you know you're in a relationship with or you're in a friendship with do it, it feels like you're on you're part of some unbeatable team. And you feel like that in the world when you know you're you're with your best friend or your partner um sometimes. But I think that that there's this Yeah. It just absolutely enhanced sense of intimacy that happens.

[Kyla Harris]: And Lee was like a bit of a PA ninja. I mean, she she did kind of she was fantastic at doing my care in so many ways. What she wasn't fantastic at was not being a friend and just being a PA.

[Anna Martin]: Wow. What do you mean by that? I'm curious about that.

[Kyla Harris]: So, if I for instance had my day planned and I'd be like, "Okay, we're going to go to this appointment and then we're going to go." She'd be like, "Why are you doing that?" Like, "That doesn't make any sense."

[Anna Martin]: You mean like logistically?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. Yeah. Like any opinion that she could have about my life because, you know, your friends are there to give you their opinion. That's like the friendship job.

[Anna Martin]: So, would it be like, you know, she's helping you get dressed and she's like this shirt for real? Like that kind of thing?

[Kyla Harris]: Oh, yeah. Like in in all in all ways.

[Anna Martin]: What about dating?

[Kyla Harris]: Well, I didn't really date until like 8 years ago or something. I'd always kind of like fallen into relationships with friends or friend of a friend. And so, she was never there as someone who would come on a date, but she would be there if I was making out with someone on the dance floor. And we'd, you know, actually having her as a PA in those instances was great because we'd go to the bathroom and I'd need to pee and we'd just debrief about whoever I was making out with, you know, where you're like, "Can you see what they look like?" And she's like, "Not really. The lights are too dark."

[Anna Martin]: What about like sexual encounters? I mean, you mentioned a PA needing to come in at 3:00 a.m., you know, when you're part of something you continue that like in the morning, you know, when you're having your kind of like maybe sexy coffee time or whatever with this person you've had sex with. Like Lee's also there. What What was What was the morning after like?

[Kyla Harris]: Oh my gosh. Well, I remember a lot of morning afters with PAs when I would when I would, you know, have one night stands here and there. I remember one night when I had a one night stand. I had unprotected sex. Obviously very hung over the day after. So hung over that I was like, I can't get out of bed to get the morning after pill. So I sent my PA to pretend that she had had unprotected sex to be able to get the morning pill after for me. And so they were asking her all about her unprotected sex. She's like texting you under the table like and she did procure the morning after pill for me.

[Anna Martin]: This wasn't Lee. This was someone else.

[Kyla Harris]: No, this was someone else. This was cuz I feel like Lee would be pretty good at this to be honest.

[Anna Martin]: Lee would be great. Lee would have been great at that for sure.

[Anna Martin]: That's okay. So they're coming PA is coming in handy. It is. So, I mean, we're talking about sort of Lee and this friendship PA relationship, but I'm also curious if there was ever friction in this relationship between you and Lee as she's providing your care and also being your friend.

[Kyla Harris]: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Loads of friction because if she was late for her shift, I would I it would be really frustrating, annoying. she would need to do my laundry and you know my washing washing up and stuff like that and she you know and sometimes she wouldn't because she'd be like it doesn't feel like doing that today.

[Anna Martin]: Yeah. Well, that's weird because if it was like a in a professional relationship perhaps it might be easier to be like listen I really need you to come on time. Right. But with a friend that feels different, right?

[Kyla Harris]: Absolutely.

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. And that's what complicated things and and you know we decided that it was best to not be in that kind of professional relationship but it it also so we we stopped it but at the same time every now and then if I needed a PA over the years I'd ask her to step in to step in if she could. She was always kind of like my backup cuz I'd moved to the UK. I didn't have anyone else really and it kind of started feeling like sleeping with with an ex that you shouldn't sleep with.

[Anna Martin]: Ah, did did sort of the ending of that employer employee relationship as it were with Lee, did that change how you thought about having a person who you love, a friend otherwise be responsible for your care? Were you like, I'm not going to do this again from now on, you know, just PAs I hire?

[Kyla Harris]: Absolutely. Huh. I think it made me realize in a sense how unbounded I was, huh? And that in order to get the care and the autonomy that I needed, I needed to be more boundaried and that meant not hiring friends any longer.

[Anna Martin]: Have you had romantic partners provide a significant amount of your care?

[Kyla Harris]: Yes. Yeah, I have. I do kind of negotiate with my partners about whether they want to learn or not. Often partners, yes, romantic partners, often it gets to a point where it's like we want to be alone. We want to have time alone. And what does that mean? If I want to spend the night, you know, the night with someone um with just the two of us, which is obviously what you want to do a lot of the time as romantic partners. Yeah. It means that they would need to learn cathization.

[Kyla Harris]: And I remember one partner that I was with um they'd learned how to cathize me and we wanted to go away for a while and they were like, "Let me help you take a shit." Yeah. And I was like, "Absolutely not. Absolutely not." Like, "That's my boundary."

[Anna Martin]: Which has now been removed.

[Kyla Harris]: Okay. Noted. get there. Yeah. But but at the time um you know you're like that's a line I'm not wanting that.

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. I remember this time my current partner I um I have I've I've had a lot of problems with my bowels um over the years and now have a colostomy bag, a sto bag which is essentially where your waste or poo goes directly from your intestines into a bag. Huh. Uh, but which actually makes it quite tidy and neat to be fair. And I was alone with my partner and I had diarrhea and she needed to assist me with that. And as she was doing that, I felt cuz you know when you're feeling unwell, you also feel you can feel not only really vulnerable but pretty down on yourself. And I said to her, I I I don't know how you can still find me attractive. and she said, "Are you joking? I feel like this adds to our relationship because it is just another level of intimacy that you and I are experiencing together."

[Anna Martin]: She said that to you?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah.

[Anna Martin]: It's intensely romantic and it spurs from diarrhea. I mean, what more could you ask for?

[Kyla Harris]: I swear I'm not just pissing and [ __ ] all the time here. I mean, we kind of all are as humans.

[Anna Martin]: Tell me about your partner. How long have you been together?

[Kyla Harris]: Oh my gosh. We have been together for 8 years. I when I first met her, I felt this really gentle warmth. There it felt like there was this innocence to it.

[Anna Martin]: Huh. Interesting. What do you mean by that?

[Kyla Harris]: I don't know. Oh, I I suppose because I'd always known that I was queer from a very young age, from like eight or nine. Yeah. And I'd had um I'd never had a relationship with a woman, but I had a lot of experiences. And so maybe it was just me being a baby gay that that was the innocence.

[Anna Martin]: Sure. Sure.

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. But there was there was this gentleness for sure to our to us being together. Um,

[Anna Martin]: I'm curious to know, you know, 8 years into this relationship, how involved is your partner in your care these days?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. So whenever my partner and I want time alone, she assists me with whatever I need. And I I have always been guided by her. I'm never guided by in a sense what I think I need. And she was really uncomfortable to begin with um cathizing when we were out because a lot of people thought that she was my PA or thought that she was a friend or a a sibling. you know, which often happens in queer relationships, but it and that was very difficult to navigate to begin with because how do you reassure someone that it doesn't matter?

[Anna Martin]: Yeah. Yeah. What other people think? Yeah.

[Anna Martin]: So, on a dayto-day, she's not providing your care or because you have PAS or or what's the sort of how does it work, you know, on a dayto-day with her cuz you live together, right?

[Kyla Harris]: No.

[Anna Martin]: Oh, you don't live together?

[Kyla Harris]: No. Yeah. So, I have 24-hour care from the nine PAS that I have rotating in in and out of my house. When we want time alone or to go away together alone, she does my care. But I would not be able to live with my partner or marry my partner without losing all of my government benefits.

[Anna Martin]: Okay, this is a really important point that I want to make sure We understand if you marry if you legally marry your partner

[Kyla Harris]: if I just move in with my partner.

[Anna Martin]: Wow. Because why why would that then negate the benefits?

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. It doesn't make any sense to me logically, financially. um if they see my partner as being able to provide the care that I would need, they would then reduce the funding that I had for my own PAS. And of course, that's incredibly dangerous for a lot of people. A lot of disabled people are very much prone to abuse, specifically in relationships. And this law Unfortunately, I think encourages that.

[Anna Martin]: Wow. The the system is built on this idea that if you have a romantic partner, you will rely on them for part or maybe even all of your care. But from everything we've been talking about in terms of relying on friends for care or romantic partners for care, that does not seem like the kind of life you want to live. Correct.

[Kyla Harris]: Absolutely. And I think that sometimes it does work for for couples. And I think again like disability and um requiring care is not a monolith. Um for me I would never want that because I wouldn't feel like I had my full autonomy.

[Anna Martin]: you know, we're at towards the end of our conversation and we started our conversation talking about early sexual experiences, the boyfriend, the horny teen ward. And so it feels full circle to me to sort of end in a sexy zone as well. And this is a direct question, but it's modern love. So I am going to ask you, you're partner of 8 years. How is your sex life? What is your sex life like?

[Kyla Harris]: Our sex life is always evolving. Mhm. And I think that's the same with any couple. I mean, yeah, we would like shag all day for hours, like nonstop at the beginning of our relationship. Like every relationship.

[Anna Martin]: Did you really say shag? That's not like just in the movies.

[Kyla Harris]: I did. I Yeah, it's They say shag. They say snog as well.

[Anna Martin]: Okay. Sorry. You You were shagging all the time.

[Kyla Harris]: All the time. All the time. And but now it feels like You know what it feels? You know what it feels like? Huh? feels like [ __ ] equality. That's what sex feels like with her.

[Anna Martin]: Tell me what you mean by that.

[Kyla Harris]: I think that maybe because I'd been with more men than women. Yeah. I hadn't realized that there's this performative aspect and this putting your sexual needs maybe not as front and center as your partners. And I think that that's unconsciously encouraged a lot. Um, and when we have sex, it feels gentle and fun and hot as [ __ ] and it feels loving and communicative.

[Anna Martin]: Are there ways I don't you've had to get creative to have the kind of sex you want? I mean, you've had these years to explore and I'm curious Yeah. about getting creative.

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah, absolutely. I think that like I'm also because I'm not able to use my fingers and hands fully. Um, I have come up with alternate ways of pleasuring her and different parts of my body and ways that I use different parts of my body to pleasure her. And she has said, and I don't think that this is I don't think she made this up, but she or or do this for my ego, but she said it's the best sex she's ever had. So, I think as a disabled person, the thing that I rely on most is creativity to exist in this world because, you know, if there's a barrier, it's like, how do we get around it? Do we put a ramp on it?

[Kyla Harris]: Um, and when I was younger, I was experimenting with BDSM, which I'm sure most of your listeners know is bondage, domination, state of massism. And thank you for providing milk. Anytime. And um I was I was just like, "Okay, well, I want I want to be able to dominate. I want to be able to like fog and I'm not I'm not a a a passive um part in my sex life." And so I called up an occupational therapist and I said, "Look, I I was wondering if you could help me modify a sex toy." and she said, "Never had this request before, but come on in."

[Anna Martin]: You said, "Pleasure to be the first."

[Kyla Harris]: You're welcome. I I went to the to the occupational therapist in her room and I pulled out a flogger and I said, "How do

[Anna Martin]: Wait, what?" For those uninitiated, a flogger is like a

[Kyla Harris]: Okay, so it's it's I would say like a gentle whip could be made of anything from rubber to leather that can increase that is usually used on the bottom of your partner or whoever you choose um consensually or any other part of their body to kind of stimulate and arouse through the pleasure dichotomy.

[Anna Martin]: That's a beautiful freaking definition of a flogger. Okay, you pull out a flogger and I say, "How do I grip this? How do I grip this tightly so that I'm not kind of like flogging and it flies out or that it's, you know, that I'm flogging well. How do I flog well with Exactly.

[Kyla Harris]: So, she had a splint made for me so that I would be able to grip this vlogger and I was happy to report back to her that it worked.

[Anna Martin]: And now this occupational therapist, the next time someone calls with a vlogger question, can say, "You know what? We've already handled this, so I know exactly what to do."

[Kyla Harris]: She's prepared. She's prepared.

[Anna Martin]: She is prepared. Oh, I mean, and I love that that creativity is like a I mean, superpower, kind of a cheesy word, but I mean, it it really does sound like that in a sexual sense, in a navigating the world sense. I mean, I I guess I wonder in sort of a broader way, like is there anything you've learned from having sex while disabled that you think you might not have learned otherwise?

[Kyla Harris]: Oh, yeah. I mean, so much. I mean, obviously, I didn't experience sex before. That is true. I I was disabled, so this is all I have to go by. But I think it increases intimacy and communication and I think what is more sexy in a relationship or in a one night stand or whatever kind of partnership you want to have than intimacy and communication.

[Anna Martin]: Yeah. I mean, it sounds I'm just thinking about even at 16, you me sex soon. I mean, it's like the thing that people find difficult in sexual experiences like is a necessity for you. Direct communication and it does seem like that would increase Yeah. I mean, I keep saying hot, but hotness. Do you think Okay. Do you think in some ways your sex life with your disability is better than the sex you might have had as an able-bodied person? That's kind of a difficult, you know, question, but I'm curious.

[Kyla Harris]: Yeah. I mean, I would use the term non-disabled rather than able-bodied because I think that refers usually just, you know, to the body almost able-bodied. And so, I'd say um non-disabled is also involves like the body and mind um and is more inclusive. And I would say that yeah, being disabled has 100% made my sex hotter than it was. Or it could have been because of the communication and the intimacy

[Anna Martin]: like what are the things you have to communicate about in sexual situations?

[Kyla Harris]: Well, it can often seems like it comes in the form of demands and commands. You know, turn over, get on your knees, um, spread your legs, you know, sit on my face.

[Anna Martin]: Yep. I feel like they're blushing. I I'm getting a picture. Thank you. And that's why you always ask a followup, isn't it? Yeah. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. And that kind of like Yeah. Well, demands in like a sexy way. Totally. Totally.

[Kyla Harris]: Exactly. And I think I am more embodied as a disabled person than most non-disabled people I know. Huh. I am so in tune with if something is a little bit ary or feels a bit off or I'm I'm very very aware of my sensations and my needs my gut feeling, my intuition because I've had to be and I think that makes better sex as well. is like really being present and in your body in those moments.

[Anna Martin]: You know, Kyla, I'm thinking about younger you in the hospital getting to know this new reality and this changed body. And I'm wondering if looking back now from from where you are, if you'd have advice for for someone who might be younger, um, dating, falling in love, being intimate, having sex, someone who has a disability. Do you have any advice?

[Kyla Harris]: Oh my gosh. Yes. so much that it's going to be hard to fit it into a sound bite. But I would say that no matter what the world tells you, what society tells you, that you are intrinsically valued and that you are so worthy of care for yourself, care for others, of loving self and of feeling joy and pleasure and that it's there.

[Anna Martin]: Kyla Harris, thank you so much for talking to me today.

[Kyla Harris]: Anna Martin, it has been an absolute pleasure.

[Anna Martin]: The Modern Love team is Davis Land, Alisa Gutierrez, Lin Levy, Reva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Reva Goldberg. It was edited by Lin Levy. Our mix engineer was Daniel Ramirez. Original music in this episode by Alicia Beetup, Marian Lozano, and Dan Powell. Dan also composed our theme music. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones and Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.