Daniel Bloom: I cannot describe how powerful it is. I'm really able to do in a day now what used to take me a week. But more than that, I'll say it's a lot of deeper work. There's things that I do today that I just wasn't able to do before.

Daniel Bloom: Whether it's more in-depth research, whether it's being more databacked, anything you do today, you can do it almost at the top level. One of the things even at a company level that I tell people is look, you got to go through the pain of switching your systems and it's not going to be as efficient. And yes, of course, like the old way will be faster because it's muscle memory, but if you get to the next level, not only will you have a system that works better for you, but everybody will have more skills.

Daniel Bloom: Today, I say I manage about 70 to 80% of my time in front of the computer with co-work alone.

Claire Vo: We've seen a couple morning briefs, but I want to see what you think makes yours different.

Daniel Bloom: In this daily brief, my coworker runs through my recent slacks, my emails, my personal notes, and it looks for context that it doesn't understand in these things. And it says like, oh, if there's a file I wasn't aware of, there's a milestone, there's a goal, it would ask me about it and say, hey, like, what is this? Is this important? Should I read this? And this is, I think, where the real magic happens.

Claire Vo: This is really genius. I'm curious how this scales beyond you. So, you have your system, you're, you know, 10x PM now. Congratulations. How does this affect the team? How do they use systems like this?

Welcome back to How I AI. I'm Clarvo, product leader and AI obsessive here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. Today I have Daniel Bloom and he's going to show us his clawed co-work system to rule them all. It self-heals, it self-optimizes, and it's way better than the morning briefing you have going on. Let's get to it.

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Daniel, welcome to how I ai. I am so excited to have you on this episode because every week, every month, I think things get better and I'm always impressed with how much more organized everybody but me seems to get with their uh AI and their personal productivity. And so tell me like what brought you to building this big system and what problem are you trying to solve?

Daniel Bloom: Cool. Well, Claire, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. As somebody who's been an early adopter of AI for quite a while, I think it took a already like a a good few months ago or even a year ago, we were able to solve some of the big or at least improve some of the big jobs to be done for PMS with uh even with simpler tools like with uh gems. Uh you could improve your specs and you could improve your research. But I think uh as I was progressing with my AI adoption, I really felt that one of the biggest things that hangs over me and and really makes my day-to-day more difficult is all this just overhead of of being a PM of coordinating a bunch of things, remembering endless tasks that arise on Slack and meetings and action items and just trying to maneuver this whole uh this whole chaos that happens every single day. um while at the same time wanting to do in-depth work and focus and and really think I felt that that was something that was really really difficult for me and I was getting nowhere near solving it um until I was able to actually build a system with co-work that I'm actually still a little bit surprised at how powerful it is and how much it's helped transform uh this this problem for me.

Claire Vo: So tell me about your personal AI stack as a PM. How did you pick the tools that go into it? And then I want to I want you to show us how how it all kind of works.

Daniel Bloom: Perfect. Uh so I'll say I think most of my choices were made by my company Mio. Um and the tools that I'm uh I'm are in our stack. Uh but uh thankfully I'm I'm pretty satisfied with those. So for a long time we only had like the Gemini enterprise and we were using that and uh just a few months ago we got uh the claude enterprise and co-work uh and that's when things really changed for me. Uh and besides that I'm basically bound to whatever whatever tools we have and use uh so this is this is what I work based off of.

Claire Vo: Okay. So this is good for everybody out there who is stuck with the tools that they're stuck with. You can still make it work. I at work. I think that Claude is obviously like a big part of this stack. Was co-work just the big unlock for you? Like where did you when did you start building this and what was the early tools versus what you use now?

Daniel Bloom: Yeah. So I think first of all on your first saying I think it's very correct and in general I'll say like I was bound by constraints of an average PM all the time in terms of having you know not endless tokens and needing to work within budgets and bureaucracy and I think it's very possible and very doable within all those constraints that you know real PMs face and I think it's it's very important to say um and in terms of the tool so co-work was definitely the big unlock for me but I While I love co-work, it's not co-work in itself. Uh, and I think codeex could be great for this as well or uh, Chad GBT work. I think the real importance is for a system to a be able to rewrite its own uh, core files and that means that it keeps on improving and b just have connections and integrations to as much of your ecosystem. when these two rules apply um there is a significant significant opportunity to really really improve the way you work and while I was working with uh Gemini gems earlier and there's obviously some incredible things that can be done with those these two elements make a system really powerful and also really integrated into your daily life but also self-improving which is one of the biggest unlocks here

Claire Vo: okay well let's let's show show it to us I want to I want to see how you actually manage your life as a PM.

Daniel Bloom: Let me start with this uh notion board, right? So, this is uh nothing incredible. It's just a standard uh PM notion board. It has three sections. One is top of mind, which are the large initiatives uh that I I just think of uh you know on any given uh time. It has my this week, which is basically the priority that I have for this week. And it has inbox, which is things that arise from Slack, email, calendar, and co-work picks up and fills them in here. Now, the cool thing about this board is not that it exists, but the fact that not only did Coowork build this completely on its own, I was working with a very simple and messy uh Google doc before, and I think notion got I think co-work got tired of of it and basically decided to build this for me, but also it actually manages it on my behalf. And I think that's the pretty cool thing that I want to show and I'll walk you through how it does it. I'll say that um the most important thing about this is that it knows me really really well uh because I spent a lot of time uh and effort contextualizing it uh and maintaining this context and also centralizing all of my work in it which took some time to get used to. But the ROI is just absolutely insane there. And I really felt how well it knows me just when prepping for this uh for this episode when I knew that because this is my real environment I couldn't show you know names and projects and sensitive stuff. So basically I just created this skill on cloud called demo and I just told it replace all the terminology and like specifics with generic terms. But because it knows me so well basically in in one prompt I was able to replace my manager's name with your manager and my top initiative. You can see here with headline feature and that's how well it knows me. It was just able to replace all of these and it just makes it for a really really seamless and comfortable collaboration.

Claire Vo: Tell me a little bit about how that context is saved. Is it just that you just put everything in notion so when it's searching it kind of knows? Is there something more purposeful around your kind of context setup?

Daniel Bloom: Yeah, so definitely something more purposeful. So in co-work, you have a context.md file that exists. And my rule is that anything that has been proven to have long-term value goes into the context. So it includes my role, it includes my focus, where the team is, what we're working on, how I work with different stakeholders. And I also have a dedicated knowledge skill that has a bunch of specifics about me. So it knows not only that I'm a PM in a company, but it knows which domain I work on, what are my pillars, what are my metrics, what are current experiments that we're running. And having that level of context is really what unlocks the high-quality output and the ability to actually act like a coworker.

Claire Vo: I love it. Well, let's let's switch over to co-work and show us how kind of the system is architected and then how you maintain it and use it over time.

Daniel Bloom: Perfect. So, it all starts with um one recurring task uh which is a composition of several skills called the weekly prep. So the weekly prep is the very basic uh uh task that helps me start my week. It runs on Sunday evening or Monday morning, looks at what was left over from last week, pulls in the calendar, looks at our strategic priorities, and drafts my proposed focus for the week.

Claire Vo: and does that push all of it into notion?

Daniel Bloom: Yes. And that basically this test that I ran earlier basically created this state that we have uh now the the notion uh that we have right now. But I'll also show you how it updates it.

Claire Vo: Yeah, let's look at that.

Daniel Bloom: Perfect. So the unique thing about this is that I think and this is something I ran into uh after having created the first weekly prep. I think one of the things any any PM uh can resonate with is the fact that there's two worlds, right? There's this beautiful clean organized world that's in our weekly priority or our road map where everything is very clear and beautiful and fits in and then there's reality where as we said this chaos of Slack and meetings and urgent priorities and executive asks and endless things that just flow in and out and what I was feeling in the beginning is this real um this real gap between what I was doing and prepping and what it was happening in real life where I was spending all this time doing all these small tasks. And I think I've built the system to really work alongside me. And part of the fact that it knows me really well is also that it knows how I work. So for example, I'm inbox zero both on Slack on on email. So it knows that if something is was saved on Slack and is no longer, it means it's likely done. Or if something was on inbox in in Gmail and is no longer so, then it probably means I already read it. And that really really helps in how we collaborate smoothly. So basically, let me run to uh my next scheduled uh my next scheduled task. And this is called the morning brief. And this is I think where the real magic happens. So actually we're going to run this live right now.

Claire Vo: I had to laugh because I think folks AI setup is a real reflection of their internal personality. And you strike me as somebody who is organized and thoughtful. You're an inbox zero person. I am sorry to anybody that tries to text or email me. I am like a chaos reigns person. I cannot put my stuff in a table. I cannot put my stuff in a conbon board. I need just a bot and I need when it's 2 in the morning or it's 6:00 in the morning or it's 2 in the afternoon. I just need to be like, "Dearbot, what's going on? What's going on?" And so it's always fascinating to me to watch people who I just pre-AI have like a much more structured approach to their work and then post AI I think it really reflects in how you build build your system because mine looks it probably should look like something like this but it looks nothing like this.

Daniel Bloom: Well, I think I I'll say first of all that uh you are correct in in me being quite an organized person, but I will say like again in reality a lot is a mess and a lot is like I I've found out how much is like business logic in my brain and I've had this experience with the system where I continuously like do discovery on myself and how I work and I continuously run into this places where the system is not good enough because it doesn't cover this and what it doesn't cover like it has a blind spot and it becomes much less powerful. So over time I've like covered all different angles. Um and I think it's doable. I think it's doable. And up until recently I would say in a way I was also operating chaotically. You know some of the tasks were saved on Slack. Some of them were like in my inbox. Others were just like tabs that are open in Chrome. And I've just had Claude like learn to work with all of these um and say, "All right, I'll take unfortunately it can't take an open tab as as a task, but uh everything else I just learned to look at uh the same way I do."

Claire Vo: Well, let's look at this morning brief because we've seen a couple morning briefs, but I want to see what you think makes yours different.

Daniel Bloom: Okay. So, I think that there's several things, but I I'll walk through this uh very quickly and and show uh the different parts and I'll highlight the interesting things. So the first part is that uh this brief basically walks me through my meetings. I think one of the biggest pains of PMs is we have ton of meetings. Uh we need action items, we need to act on them. Almost every meeting creates new work, but we have to run to the next meeting and often times it's backtoback until the end of the day and then you know so this helps me kind of catch up on on yesterday's meetings. Um and it shows all the different things and basically you can see this takes the granola transcripts uh and it gives me a oneliner about each meeting and if there's an action item. So here I can see uh from all of these meetings looking through them uh there is one action item uh to share the walkthrough and recording of a of and a write up in the feature channel uh with go to market. Um and that's it. So it's going to offer me to uh expand or draft any summaries. I'm going to say uh no, let's continue for now. And we're going to walk walk on over to the next phase which I think is pretty cool.

One of the things that I think is super powerful with co-work and and with these harnesses is that you can set them up for improving themselves. And one of the things I've done is I've over time uh I'm building up towards uh Claude being more agentic and being more able to act on itself. Um and I'll show you this and I think it's pretty visible in this flow. This part is pretty cool where basically one of the difficulties in life is keeping the context clear, right? So you have the system, you contextualize it, it knows things, but then how do you make sure that it keeps track. So this is one of the ways I've thought of. So basically what it does is imagine in this daily brief my coworks through my recent slacks, my emails, my granola notes and it looks for context that it doesn't understand in these things and it says like oh if there's a file I wasn't aware of, there's a milestone, there's a goal, it would ask me about it and say hey like what is this? Is this important? Should I read this? Uh so here it flagged something. Let's see what it is. A term I didn't know the settlement cap. All right. This is some payments thing and it says like I read the thread and understand it's a limit working through. Want me to save? Yeah. So I'll say save. Yes. Save it to the context. So basically this is how Claude helps me keep it contextualized and not lose track of things.

Claire Vo: This is really genius and I want people to just take a pause and reflect on what this is because it looks like for your context you are making sure that Claude understands internal definitions, terms, goals, etc. And so many of us work inside companies where the things that we say are not in the training data. They well not yet at least they're not in the training data. And so actually proactively prompting Claude to say like I don't understand what you're talking about here. Can we define it together and then I'll save it to my context and I'll know what you're talking about moving forward is really really sharp and something we haven't seen on the podcast yet. I love this.

Daniel Bloom: Yeah. So, it's it's super hard to just keep track and and the unlock is that you're able to say, "Oh, I can just ask Claude to be my partner in doing this and automatically, you know, follow up and and insist on on getting this knowledge is a really really big unlock."

Claire Vo: Amazing. So you run it weekly, you run it daily. Do you actually spend time in the board itself?

Daniel Bloom: So the main idea is that notion is almost a read only for me. I I look at the notion just to have clarity in my own mind and have like a helicopter view. I I barely almost never edit it with you know small small exceptions. It's completely made for me by co-work.

Claire Vo: are you using co-work with Chrome at all like are you using browser use or are you mainly just using files?

Daniel Bloom: Yeah. So I I would say in the beginning I was using like Chrome a lot. In my personal experience, it gets hung up and and it's slow. I found that connecting through APIs and files and dedicated tools is just way way faster and more reliable.

Claire Vo: and do you feel like this is really saving you like what's the benefit here? Is it time saved? Is it capacity increased? Like how do you justify the overhead of maintaining this?

Daniel Bloom: Yeah. So, it's it's a great question and I think honestly oftenimes we make systems and maintaining the system becomes a full-time job.

Claire Vo: I I think

Claire Vo: because you need to watch our episode with Jason, the CEO of Meme Lord, who actually talked about this exact thing.

Daniel Bloom: So, I I haven't watched it yet, but I will say it's literally like the top to-do item for me.

Daniel Bloom: Yeah. Um, but I'll say I think it's a really really good question and I will say like if this was high maintenance, it wouldn't be worth it. The whole point is that it's low maintenance and self-maintaining. And in terms of benefit, it's not just hours saved, it's the depth of work. You go from being constantly interrupted and managing small items to actually having uninterrupted focus to do deep PM work, high quality specs, and real strategy.

Daniel Bloom: but it's it's it's true, you know. It's it's insane. And I I look at um I look at the difference in output quality and it's night and day.

Claire Vo: I I love it. I love it. You you've sold me. Um I don't know if I'm going to get out of my chaos, but I love the self-improving aspect. Before we get to how you scale this across the company with workstations, tell us about these self-improving loops. How does it actually get better week over week?

Daniel Bloom: A lot of what you brought up is is super relevant in that sense. Um and I think one of the things that have made me you know in a sense uh wait for uh for co-work for example when a few months ago there was this endless hype about cursor and about cloud code and you know I was kind of sitting on the sidelines um and and waiting like should I adopt these like tools that are not meant for me and are super super technical can be scary um and I'm glad I waited for for cowork because it's a lot about like you know just UX and and experience and simplicity and a lot of the tools that we've built for for the team and whether it's the gem that helps the team write uh specs product specs that we did almost a year ago or uh what we call the workstation that we have that I'll show a little bit later at the end of the day if you make something accessible and simple and the value is clear um then it then it gets adopted much better.

Daniel Bloom: Yeah, so I think this is one of the coolest unlocks that have helped me continuously improve the setup while not dedicating too much time to it. And basically, it's almost not self-improvement, but it's Claude helping me improve it. So, I'll walk you through something called the self-improvement loop. It's a scheduled test task that runs weekly and it has several skills attached to it and and I'll walk through them.

So, again, it it works in parts. Uh a trick I found really helpful when when I have a bunch of information that Claude feeds me. So, I'm going to walk through this uh in retroactive. Uh so, first of all, the first part is how my drafts landed. So, what I found over time is that when I write with Claude, it'll give me a draft and then I'll change it and I'll just send it. But the thing there is that Claude doesn't learn what the gap is between uh the draft that it wrote and what I actually sent. So, I have Claude uh when running this task looking for drafts that it it shared with me and I didn't respond and then looking to see if I sent them in a different way and learning from those draft and saying, "Oh, so we actually ended up writing this and doing the learning on it on its own." So in this specific uh in this specific week I see that there was nothing learned and insignificant but this is very helpful in continuing improving and you know uh polishing claude on on how I write.

Now this is a cool one. The second one and this is skills that are worth building. So basically Claude on an ongoing basis looks for things that I do uh on a recurring uh basis and suggests turning them into skills. Many of my skills actually ended up being uh from this flow. Uh, so you could see it. Uh, I've been prototyping a bunch lately. So, it's, uh, helping me. Uh, it's suggesting I create a claw design handoff, uh, skill between co-working where I do the research and design where I actually build the prototype. Um, and a bunch of other interesting skills uh, that I've built. I have a skill like this, by the way, that's handoff between co-work uh, which I use kind of as the exe executing arm of co-work. This is the second part.

The third part is fixes to my existing setup. So basically all of my skills and recurring tasks have uh lines in their in their files to collect feedback and friction for my interaction with them. So over time they gather this I don't need to do this proactively. Whenever I ask for a fix or something they gather and track this information and every week it surfaces the top frictions from my interaction with Claude and suggests to improve them. Um so these are also super helpful as you can see.

And then finally, this is a a really cool one. This is actually the uh the improve scale. So basically, uh we're all dealing with an endless flood. I think this resonates with anybody. Endless flood of tips, uh hyping up from X and LinkedIn and and and newsletters and blogs about setups and how to improve your AI usage and you must have this and you must build that. And I found this incredibly overwhelming. on one hand I don't want to drown in it at the same time I want to be able to actually implement what's relevant so I've built a skill called improve which is basically like a very critical um auditor for these uh and I share them uh usually through my phone through a slack channel with claude and I ask them like is this real is this powerful how how does this adapt to what we have now is this needed and then it helps me review it and together we basically decide whether we want to build it or not uh so here I ran it against uh Claire, your uh how I AI episode on designing loops. Um and it basically gave me like a a criticism of the episode. It said it's like a good vid a video and it says like listen loops at the end of the day are essentially like scheduled test. So you're running loops in many ways but I don't have goal loops that are uh the way you suggested. So this is something I can adapt. um uh there's some things I can adopt and basically this is helps me you know keep track of all the things that I run into and all these like tips and tricks and at the same time not drown in them and also not um you know give into the hype too much. So these are all the different things I do to you know claude helps me continuously improve it over time with as little you know dedicated effort as possible.

Claire Vo: Love the we could have done the entire episode on the last three minutes. so good. You know, I the first one where it's like take everything that you wrote for me that I hated and did it did it separately or dropped or rewrote and then just learn from that. That's genius. We saw Alex Lieberman had like a write like me self-learning loop, but this one is really interesting because it takes the indirect signals of rewriting and built it. I also in the loops episode have a skill writing loop. So, I think that's a good one. look at our work over the last couple week or last week and and write loops. And then what was it? Let me look at the third one real quick.

Daniel Bloom: So the third one is just taking interactions with Claude over the week. It's similar to building new skills but just fixing existing.

Claire Vo: Yeah. And then um and then the third one which is so genius and I wish more people did this is build in feedback or telemetry into your skills and then review that over time and improvement. I've seen so many people try to train this into their team like sit and say okay step one step two step three step four etc. just making a skill to say, "Okay, do you have all your connections set up? Do you have this set up?" and then putting it in a shared repository is great. Tell me about how you distribute this across Miro.

Daniel Bloom: for sure so basically um I'll say that one of the one of the main things that were important for us and we were debating whether to do this with cloud code which was much more powerful or with uh co-work which was much simpler is accessibility. And we created this plugin called the PM workstation. Instead of having long documentation, it has an onboarding skill that guides each PM through setting up their context, asking what their pillar is, what their goals are, and configuring their morning briefs and weekly preps automatically.

Claire Vo: I love this. I have seen so many people try to train this into their team like sit and say okay step one step two step three step four etc. just making a skill to say, "Okay, do you have all your connections set up? Do you have this set up?" and then onboarding you is so much better.

Daniel Bloom: Yeah.

Claire Vo: I love it. And then do you just do this as like a shared skill? This is a plugin so everybody has it in our library and anybody can access it and you know now it's already like it's become quite a big thing?

Daniel Bloom: Uh but yeah I I couldn't agree with you more. I think for me this this landed when about a year ago I built uh uh our spec writing gem call it call it uh spectacular and I I was using it for my own and I built it to be really you know back back in the day a year ago you know getting you know holding its hand to write a great spec was hard. But once you package it into an accessible workstation or plugin, team-wide adoption skyrockets.

Daniel Bloom: So it's a really really good question. I think the missing piece and I'm my my personal sense is that it's very close is a the ability to operate in a in the cloud essentially in a way that's uh unrelated to when my computer is open and running. I think that's critical and I think that was also created with the uh with a cloud tag which we don't yet have in our company but I've heard good things also that it's expensive. I don't know. But I think the ability to run uh Claude away from your computer or have it run on its own, something like OpenClaw or like a Hermes, uh is really really critical to do more of these things and to achieve more. I've found some ways to work around this. Like I have a ch a Slack channel that claude poll polls and when I'm away from the computer, I can send him some things uh and then he could read them later. But it's it's still something that has to happen online. Um, and this is I think the the real missing piece. Once I have something that's able to operate uh in the cloud when I'm away from my computer when it's off and you know uh coordinate like act on things uh that that will be huge.

And also closely related is just the ability to actually like you know do do things. So I've been building up the system in order to enable to to basically prepare for it. Um, I've been having Claude not only capture my tasks and when they're done, but basically it looks at my tasks, it assigns like what it looks what it would imagine is a closed scenario. So, let's say something somebody asked a question and I saved it on Slack. So, it would say, okay, if there's a reply and it's unsaved, it means it's done. And then it looks at how I resolve these things. And that's building up towards the the time where I hope that for the simplest task that may take up time and be annoying, you know, when people somebody asks you for something or somebody asks about a file that you need or or know or to or to schedule a meeting, then it would just know to do that on its own and it wouldn't need me and and that's what I'm building up towards and that will be really powerful.

Claire Vo: That's that's the dream. But we're not at the dream yet. And so I'm curious, you know, we our audience is a lot of PMs and I'm just curious now that you have this extra capacity and time, what are the the product tasks that you're doubling down on that you're doing even more, you're spending even more time on, where do you think the effort should go?

Daniel Bloom: I'm not going to say anything surprising, but just purely in-depth work, that's one. Um so talking to customers, talking to users and a lot of research. I think those two are uh really really important and given and also just the standard things that NEPM aims to get more time for. But I think that in today's world something that really really is important and interesting um and that is new is a um improving the system. So I think the beauty about this is that if a system is built correctly and on the right pillars, it can grow and improve over time. And I've improved my system basically week over week. Uh and this is done through, you know, dedicating time to research and learn about AI, catching up to speed on how things are progressing and implementing them. Um, I have a skill that's called improve uh which I send uh posts and tweets and articles to with like recommendations and tips about uh AI setup and together we review it and see if it fits for me or if it's just like LinkedIn hype and how it can collaborate with what my system is today and we continuously improve the system together with you know tips from uh from a bunch of resources. This is a skill that I think is critical today in order to be able to keep up and and become better. Um, yeah,

Claire Vo: I I I love it. And then finally, my favorite question I ask everybody, you're organized, so maybe maybe you're nicer than me. When Claude is not doing what you want, when AI is not giving you the response that you want, what do you do? Do you yell? Are you nice? Are you polite?

Daniel Bloom: So, I think after having watched quite a few of your episodes, I think my response is pretty similar to everybody. Um, if I'm using whisper, I may yell. I don't get road rage, but I get clawed rage. So, I think like I can I don't I don't know if I've cursed, but I I've definitely like raised my voice. And I'm also frustrated at the fact that that doesn't go through whisper well enough. like I'm like, you know, exclaiming passionately and then I just see the transcript and it's like, why isn't this working? So, whisper folks, if you're out there, this is a feature request. Make make my exclamations be more felt.

Claire Vo: I love it. Yeah, I have this, Speaking of Claude Rage, I have this hypothesis. I have this aura on. I have this hypothesis that you can tell what model I'm working with with like how agitated and stressed I am. So maybe maybe that will be a future how I AI benchmark. I'm I'm baking annoy bench which is like how furious

Daniel Bloom: that would be amazing an agent or an AI makes me. This has been so much fun. Thank you for showing us your full system. I think it's totally accessible. Um I think a lot of people are going to put this in their own improved skill and I love how you're figuring out ways to share this with the rest of your team. Where can we find you and how can we be helpful to you?

Awesome. So, this has been super fun, Claire. Thank you so much. Um, people can find me on LinkedIn, Daniel Bloom. Um, and also on my website, I'm Daniel Bloom.com. Uh, I can share some of these resources. Um, this this a big part of this uh system is available uh for download. So, check out the website and yeah.

Claire Vo: Awesome. Well, thank you for joining How AI.

Daniel Bloom: Thank you, Claire.

Claire Vo: Thanks so much for watching. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe here on YouTube, or even better, leave us a comment with your thoughts. You can also find this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Please consider leaving us a rating and review, which will help others find the show. You can see all our episodes and learn more about the show at howiipod.com. See you next time.