颠覆性创新：经济增长的驱动力

Host: One of the most disruptive and innovative forces in the ETF (Exchange Traded Fund: 一种在交易所交易的基金) world today, the investor queen Cathie Wood. The ARK Innovation ETF (ARK创新ETF: 一种由方舟投资公司管理的交易所交易基金) is now trading near a 52-week high, having returned an astounding 148% and more than 170% last year, and now has $17 billion under management. My conviction is so high because of what I do on a day-to-day basis. We are doing original research, trying to figure out these companies that are going to transform the world.

Host: 凯茜·伍德是当今ETF领域最具颠覆性和创新力的力量之一，这位投资女王旗下的ARK创新ETF目前正接近52周高点，去年回报率高达惊人的148%甚至超过170%，目前管理着170亿美元资产。我的信念如此坚定，是因为我每天都在做的事情。我们正在进行原创研究，试图找出那些将改变世界的公司。

Host: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Ark Invest's Cathie Wood.

Host: 女士们，先生们，有请方舟投资的凯茜·伍德。

Cathie Wood: Well, greetings. I'm so delighted to be here. My maiden voyage, and I am here to talk about how the world's going to transform during the next 5 to 10 years, and how much more rapidly we will see real GDP (Real Gross Domestic Product: 剔除通货膨胀影响后的国内生产总值) grow, and how low inflation is going to be and why.

Cathie Wood: 大家好。我很高兴来到这里。这是我的首次航行，我将在这里谈论世界在未来5到10年内将如何转型，我们将看到实际GDP增长的速度将有多快，以及通货膨胀将有多低，还有其原因。

创新时间轴与生产力提升

Cathie Wood: So here we go. Here is a timeline of innovation, and you can see it goes into the 1700s. Our chief futurist Brett Winton, in conjunction with academics, pulled this together. What you're seeing here is the impact of innovation on productivity. You can see in this time we've had two great eras. The first one was in the late 1800s, early 1900s: telephone, electricity, internal combustion engine – a huge boost in GDP growth.

Cathie Wood: 那么我们开始吧。这是一份创新时间轴，你可以看到它追溯到18世纪。我们的首席未来学家布雷特·温顿与学者们共同整理了这份资料。你们在这里看到的是创新对生产力的影响。在这个时期，我们经历了两个伟大的时代。第一个是19世纪末、20世纪初：电话、电力、内燃机——极大地推动了GDP增长。

Cathie Wood: And in fact, prior to that, for the 400 years prior to that, real GDP growth had been averaging about 0.6% per year, very slow. After that, we went into a 125-year period of 3% real GDP growth. So, a five-fold increase from 0.6% to 3%.

Cathie Wood: 事实上，在此之前的400年里，实际GDP年均增长率约为0.6%，非常缓慢。在那之后，我们进入了一个长达125年的时期，实际GDP增长率为3%。所以，这是一个从0.6%到3%的五倍增长。

Cathie Wood: You have to move forward to today to see multiple innovation platforms evolving at the same time. For the first time in 125 years, this time there are five platforms, not three major platforms, and they involve 15 different technologies. This is very important in terms of how to research and analyze the world. It's not going to be by sector or industry anymore; it is going to be by technology because technology is permeating every sector, every industry, and blurring the lines between them.

Cathie Wood: 你们需要展望到今天，才能看到多个创新平台同时发展。这是125年来首次出现这种情况，这次有五个平台，而不是三个主要平台，它们涉及到15种不同的技术。这对于如何研究和分析世界非常重要。它将不再按行业或产业划分；而是按技术划分，因为技术正在渗透到每个领域、每个行业，并模糊了它们之间的界限。

Cathie Wood: So you can see five here. We believe that the productivity uplift here is going to be so strong during the next 5 to 10 years. And I think President Trump's tax package is going to turbocharge this, that real GDP growth will accelerate from that 3% where it has been for the last 125 years towards 7% plus. And we think that could be conservative. That's a little more than two times as opposed to the five-fold uplift before. So, get ready.

Cathie Wood: 所以你们可以看到这里有五个。我们相信，在未来5到10年内，这里的生产力提升将非常强劲。我认为特朗普总统的税收方案将加速这一进程，使实际GDP增长从过去125年来的3%加速到7%以上。我们认为这可能还是一个保守估计。这比之前的五倍提升略高两倍多。所以，请做好准备。

Cathie Wood: But the other thing that we think is going to happen is that inflation is going to surprise significantly on the low side of expectations. We would not be surprised to see 0% inflation or less as we exit the tariffs here and the way they're getting through the indexes, and move forward into this new age of technological explosion.

Cathie Wood: 但我们认为将要发生的另一件事是，通货膨胀将远低于预期，令人惊讶。当我们摆脱这里的关税及其通过指数传导的方式，并迈入这个技术爆炸的新时代时，我们不会对看到0%或更低的通货膨胀感到惊讶。

五大创新平台及其融合

Cathie Wood: One of the reasons for this explosion is not just the five platforms. So I should have named them: robotics (机器人技术: 涉及设计、建造、操作和应用机器人的技术), energy storage (储能: 储存能量以备后续使用的技术), artificial intelligence (人工智能: 模拟人类智能的科学与技术), blockchain technology (区块链技术: 一种分布式数据库技术，用于安全地记录交易), and multiomic sequencing (多组学测序: 结合基因组学、蛋白质组学等多种生物组学数据进行分析的技术).

Cathie Wood: 这种爆炸性增长的原因不仅仅是这五个平台。我应该点出它们的名字：机器人技术、储能、人工智能、区块链技术和多组学测序。

Cathie Wood: Five major platforms involving 15 different technologies. Here you can see why we think we're going to see explosive growth: it is the convergence between and among these technologies.

Cathie Wood: 五个主要平台，涉及15种不同的技术。你们可以看到为什么我们认为会看到爆炸性增长：正是这些技术之间以及它们内部的融合。

Cathie Wood: Just to give you two examples of convergence in the autonomous mobility space (自动驾驶出行领域: 涉及无人驾驶汽车及相关服务), that is the convergence of robotics, energy storage, and artificial intelligence.

Cathie Wood: 举两个自动驾驶出行领域融合的例子，那就是机器人技术、储能和人工智能的融合。

Cathie Wood: Now, each one of those technologies or platforms is following its own S-curve (S型曲线: 描述技术或产品生命周期中增长模式的曲线), and we are moving into the sweet spot of the S-curve now that autonomous taxis are debuting, in the case of Tesla, in Austin and San Francisco. Waymo's been there for a while. Just think about that: one S-curve feeding another S-curve feeding another S-curve. That's why we're going to see explosive growth.

Cathie Wood: 现在，这些技术或平台中的每一个都遵循着自己的S型曲线，随着自动驾驶出租车在奥斯汀和旧金山（以特斯拉为例）首次亮相，我们正进入S型曲线的最佳点。Waymo已经存在一段时间了。想想看：一个S型曲线推动另一个S型曲线，再推动另一个S型曲线。这就是我们将会看到爆炸性增长的原因。

Cathie Wood: Another example is in the healthcare space. While the autonomous mobility space might be the biggest revenue generator in the short term, we believe that the most profound application of AI is in healthcare, and that's the convergence of sequencing technologies and artificial intelligence, and technologies like CRISPR gene editing (CRISPR基因编辑: 一种精确修改基因组的技术).

Cathie Wood: 另一个例子是在医疗保健领域。虽然自动驾驶出行领域短期内可能是最大的收入来源，但我们认为人工智能最深远的应用是在医疗保健领域，那是测序技术与人工智能以及像CRISPR基因编辑这样的技术的融合。

Cathie Wood: And I think this is the sleeper. It's the most inefficiently priced part of the market. So you can see why it's going to be so important to set up research departments by technology, not by sector or industry.

Cathie Wood: 我认为这是潜在的黑马。它是市场上定价效率最低的部分。所以你们可以看到，按技术而不是按行业或产业来建立研究部门将变得多么重要。

市场估值与ARK投资策略

Cathie Wood: On this last page here, here is what we think is going to happen to the equity market in terms of valuations.

Cathie Wood: 在这最后一页上，展示了我们认为股票市场在估值方面将会发生什么。

Cathie Wood: So you can see in the turquoise there, that's the MAG Six (Magnificent Six: 指市值最大的六家科技公司). It used to be called the MAG 7, but they threw Tesla out when it wasn't behaving like the rest of the MAG 6.

Cathie Wood: 所以你们可以在青色部分看到，那是“壮丽六巨头”。它曾经被称为“壮丽七巨头”，但当特斯拉表现不符合其他六巨头时，他们就把特斯拉剔除了。

Cathie Wood: So, you can see from 2019 to 2024, the MAG 6 tripled in valuation, in market cap. Whereas truly disruptive innovation, in the purple at the bottom there, went up only 30%. And that's because investors were playing it safe, and they were investing only in the largest, most cash-rich stocks in the market. That was a very difficult time for innovation, for venture capital (风险投资: 对初创企业进行股权投资以获取高回报的投资形式) generally.

Cathie Wood: 所以你们可以看到，从2019年到2024年，“壮丽六巨头”的市值翻了三倍。而底部紫色部分的真正颠覆性创新，仅上涨了30%。这是因为投资者在求稳，他们只投资市场上最大、现金最充裕的股票。那对创新，对一般的风险投资来说，是一个非常艰难的时期。

Cathie Wood: And you can see what we expect to happen over the next five years: the MAG Six, some of them will do well, some are facing headwinds. Apple's issues in the AI space are well documented. And now we think it is truly disruptive innovation's time to shine in the market.

Cathie Wood: 你们可以看到我们预计未来五年会发生什么：“壮丽六巨头”中有些会表现良好，有些则面临逆风。苹果在人工智能领域的问题已广为人知。现在我们认为，是真正颠覆性创新在市场中大放异彩的时候了。

Cathie Wood: I feel as though a rubber band has been stretching for the last four years, and it let go with the election of Donald Trump. That's when truly disruptive innovation started to shine, and the stock market started to broaden out from the very concentrated MAG Six strategies into much more widespread disruptive innovation.

Cathie Wood: 我感觉就像一根橡皮筋已经拉伸了四年，而在唐纳德·特朗普当选后它终于松开了。那时，真正的颠覆性创新开始大放异彩，股市也开始从高度集中的“壮丽六巨头”策略，扩展到更广泛的颠覆性创新领域。

Cathie Wood: In other words, risk appetite and time horizon are starting to extend here. And I think the tax package, especially the corporate tax cuts, which most people haven't focused on: full depreciation of structures first year they're put in service, full expensing of equipment, R&D domestic, and software in year one. These are huge, huge incentives to invest now. And I think that's exactly what's going to happen.

Cathie Wood: 换句话说，风险偏好和时间跨度正在这里延伸。我认为税收方案，特别是企业减税，是大多数人没有关注到的：第一年投入使用的结构可以完全折旧，设备、国内研发和软件费用可以在第一年完全冲销。这些都是现在进行投资的巨大、巨大的激励。我认为这正是将会发生的事情。

Cathie Wood: And you can see the difference here: for truly disruptive innovation, we would expect — now we did this chart at the end of last year — during the next five years, to deliver a compound annual rate of return of roughly 50%. Now we've had some of that, so maybe it's 40% to 45% compound annual rate of change. And this is in the public equity world. In the private world, just wait until you see with those disclosures.

Cathie Wood: 你们可以在这里看到不同之处：对于真正的颠覆性创新，我们预计——我们是在去年年底制作的这张图表——在未来五年内，将实现大约50%的复合年回报率。现在我们已经实现了一部分，所以也许是40%到45%的复合年变化率。这发生在公开股票市场。在私募市场，等你们看到那些披露信息就知道了。

Host: They know the disclosure.

Host: 他们知道披露信息。

比特币展望：150万美元的牛市目标

Host: Ladies and gentlemen, Cathie Wood. Cathie, join us.

Host: 女士们，先生们，凯茜·伍德。凯茜，请加入我们。

Cathie Wood: Thank you.

Cathie Wood: 谢谢。

Host: Thanks for watching.

Host: 感谢收看。

Host: Thank you so much for coming. I know you're very busy.

Host: 非常感谢您的到来。我知道您非常忙碌。

Cathie Wood: My pleasure.

Cathie Wood: 我的荣幸。

Host: You're projecting in five years, Bitcoin hits 3.8 million per coin. That's five times the market cap of gold, which has hit an all-time high. Walk us through the math here.

Host: 您预测五年内，比特币将达到每枚380万美元。这相当于黄金市值的五倍，而黄金刚刚创下历史新高。请给我们解释一下这里的计算依据。

Cathie Wood: So, I'm going to just correct that a bit. Our official bull case is 1.5 million.

Cathie Wood: 好的，我稍微纠正一下。我们官方的牛市目标是150万美元。

Host: Okay.

Host: 好的。

Cathie Wood: Now, what got us to that 3.8 million is using modern portfolio theory (现代投资组合理论: 一种通过分散投资来优化风险与回报的理论). If we were to include Bitcoin in portfolios at its optimal weight, so maximizing the Sharpe ratio (夏普比率: 衡量投资组合风险调整后收益的指标), that would have provided that increment to 3.8 million. Believe it or not, that position size, when we did that analysis, was 19% of a diversified portfolio.

Cathie Wood: 那么，我们得出380万美元这个数字是基于现代投资组合理论。如果我们将比特币以其最佳权重纳入投资组合，即最大化夏普比率，那将使比特币的价格增至380万美元。信不信由你，当我们进行这项分析时，比特币在多元化投资组合中的仓位达到了19%。

Host: That's a lot.

Host: 那可真不少。

Cathie Wood: That's a lot.

Cathie Wood: 是的，确实很多。

Host: Yeah.

Host: 嗯。

Cathie Wood: I have more in mine.

Cathie Wood: 我自己的投资组合里更多。

Host: Well, you swing for the fences. When your cousins, when civilians ask you, "Hey, how much Bitcoin should I own?" What's the number you would say in private to a family member?

Host: 好的，您总是敢于放手一搏。当您的表亲，或者普通人问您：“嘿，我应该拥有多少比特币？”您私下会告诉家人什么数字？

Cathie Wood: To a family member?

Cathie Wood: 对家人说吗？

Host: Yeah, you want to protect them. You're not like, "Hey, we're swinging for the fences. This needs to be our home run."

Host: 是的，您会想要保护他们。您不会说：“嘿，我们正在放手一搏。这必须是我们的全垒打。”

Cathie Wood: I'll tell you what I've told my children for a long time now is: average in. I mean, average in every month, just average in. And then I would leave it to them in terms of their comfort factor.

Cathie Wood: 我会告诉你们我长期以来告诉我的孩子们的是：定期定额投资。我的意思是，每个月都定期定额投资，就这样。然后我会根据他们的舒适度来决定。

零售投资者准入与财富两极分化

Host: Got it. Cathie, can I ask you about this? So ARK has this ability to be a vehicle for a lot of folks that are just living their normal day-to-day lives, and they want the answer to what is going to do well in the future. They can go and they can buy your ETFs, and then they can participate in that future. There's a lot of people that are frustrated, palpably frustrated, with an inability to sort of get ahead and break through, build wealth.

Host: 明白了。凯茜，我能问您一个问题吗？ARK有能力成为许多普通大众的投资工具，他们想知道未来什么会表现良好。他们可以去购买您的ETF，然后参与到那个未来中。有很多人感到沮丧，明显地感到沮丧，因为他们无法取得进展、突破困境、积累财富。

Host: First, what is economically happening in America that prevents so many people? What do you see? Number one. And then number two, what characteristics and responsibility do retail investors have if they're going to YOLO (You Only Live Once: 指不计后果地冒险投资) this, and if they're going to buy this other thing, and they're going to try to go further out on the risk spectrum? What is their responsibility so that there's no crying in the casino?

Host: 首先，美国经济上正在发生什么，导致这么多人无法成功？您看到了什么？这是第一点。第二点，如果散户投资者要“YOLO”投资，如果他们要购买其他东西，如果他们要进一步扩大风险范围，他们应该承担什么特征和责任？这样才不会在赌场里哭泣？

Cathie Wood: There are ways to access innovation. And one of the many ways, of course, we have packaged it up. We don't look anything like a traditional benchmark. So if they're diversifying, we're a very good source of diversification, especially in trying to get exposure to innovation. We also have a venture fund. One of the questions I get regularly from retail investors used to be, "Why can't we access the private markets? We know more about those technologies than most of the institutions who are buying them. They have no idea. We're passionate about it." And so we've gotten more vocal, and this administration is certainly becoming more vocal and more focused on this particular idea because it is un-American, right? You have to meet this price.

Cathie Wood: 有很多途径可以接触到创新。当然，我们已经将其打包成产品。我们与传统基准完全不同。所以如果他们正在寻求多元化，我们是很好的多元化来源，特别是在寻求创新敞口方面。我们还有一个风险投资基金。我以前经常从散户投资者那里得到一个问题：“为什么我们不能进入私募市场？我们比大多数购买这些技术的机构更了解它们。他们一无所知。我们对此充满热情。”因此，我们变得更加积极发声，本届政府也确实变得更加积极发声，并且更加关注这个特定的想法，因为它是不符合美国精神的，对吧？你必须达到这个价格。

Host: Well, you use ChatGPT (Generative Pre-trained Transformer: 一种大型语言模型) every day, but you can't buy OpenAI (Open Artificial Intelligence: 一家从事人工智能研究和部署的美国公司).

Host: 嗯，你每天都使用ChatGPT，但你却无法购买OpenAI的股票。

Cathie Wood: Exactly.

Cathie Wood: 没错。

Host: But you can buy a lottery ticket or you can bet on sports.

Host: 但你可以买彩票或者赌博。

Cathie Wood: And it makes no sense. And I do think it's going to change, and I think this administration...

Cathie Wood: 这毫无道理。我确实认为它会改变，我认为本届政府……

Host: How should it change? Should we just have — and I've advocated for this before on the pod, and I believe you've talked about it — 5-6% of the country are accredited investors (合格投资者: 满足特定收入或净资产标准的个人或实体). You've got a small number who are QPs (Qualified Purchasers: 满足更高资产门槛的合格投资者). Should we just have a test? You know, you get a license to own a gun or drive a car or cut hair in this country. Why not just have a simple accreditation test? You understand diversification, you understand private versus public assets, how to read a balance sheet (资产负债表: 记录公司资产、负债和股东权益的财务报表). Wouldn't that just solve the problem right quick?

Host: 它应该如何改变？我们是否应该——我之前在播客中也提倡过这一点，我相信您也谈论过——让全国5-6%的人成为合格投资者。还有一小部分人是合格购买者。我们是否应该进行一次测试？你知道，在这个国家，你拥有枪支、驾驶汽车或理发都需要执照。为什么不直接进行一个简单的合格投资者测试呢？你了解多元化，你了解私募资产与公开资产的区别，了解如何阅读资产负债表。这不就能很快解决问题吗？

Cathie Wood: I mean, I used to say, you know, what we're doing in the investment world right now would be the equivalent of saying you can't drive because you don't make enough money or you do not have enough net worth. Take a test.

Cathie Wood: 我的意思是，我以前常说，我们现在在投资领域所做的事情，就相当于说你不能开车，因为你赚的钱不够多，或者你的净资产不够。考个试吧。

Host: Take a test. And we have this big question in the country about polarization of wealth. 50-60% of the country has some exposure to equities, but the people who don't, they tend to trend towards socialism or handouts. Maybe they don't feel they're part of what we experience, which is we meet great founders and you get to do public and private and we get to say, "Yeah, you know, I drove in a FSD car when Tesla was private or whatever it is, and or I looked at Coinbase when it was private or Uber. Yeah, I got the sense I want to put one or two percent into that."

Host: 进行测试。我们国家现在面临一个关于财富两极分化的大问题。全国50-60%的人口有股票投资，但那些没有投资的人，他们倾向于社会主义或福利。也许他们不觉得自己是我们所经历的一部分，那就是我们遇到伟大的创始人，你可以参与公开和私人投资，我们可以说：“是的，你知道，当特斯拉还是私人公司的时候，我开过一辆全自动驾驶（FSD）汽车，或者我看过Coinbase还在私人阶段，或者Uber。是的，我感觉我想把百分之一或百分之二的钱投入其中。”

Cathie Wood: Yes.

Cathie Wood: 是的。

Host: Yeah, it does feel profoundly unfair, doesn't it?

Host: 是的，这确实让人感到非常不公平，不是吗？

Cathie Wood: Yes. Yes.

Cathie Wood: 是的。是的。

风险管理与市场展望

Host: Cathie, there are a lot of market signals right now that are flashing green. There are a lot of market signals that are flashing red. Do you feel that you have to position actively to all of those things, or do you say, "You know what, I can't control this, I need to look five years out." So how do you manage the risk and how do you view the markets today?

Host: 凯茜，现在有很多市场信号闪烁着绿色，也有很多市场信号闪烁着红色。您觉得您必须积极应对所有这些信号，还是您会说：“你知道吗，我无法控制这些，我需要放眼五年之外。”那么，您如何管理风险以及您如何看待今天的市场？

Cathie Wood: So the risk question, obviously, we get a lot because our portfolios are volatile. They don't look like the benchmarks. When markets get into a bearish period, investors tend to hug their benchmarks, and we're moving in the opposite direction. So I just want to say we do what we do, and you know that's what our advisors expect. They don't expect us to raise cash or do anything. They might — that's their decision, right? In terms of what we do to control risk during bear markets (熊市: 股票价格普遍下跌的市场), we will concentrate towards our highest conviction names. We have a scoring system based on management, execution, moat or barriers to entry, product, service, leadership, valuation importantly, and thesis risk. So with those scores, we concentrate. During bull markets (牛市: 股票价格普遍上涨的市场), which I do believe we are in a bull market that is broadening out, we tend to diversify because the IPOs (Initial Public Offerings: 首次公开募股) start appearing again, and we have more information on some of the companies we've sold during the bear market.

Cathie Wood: 那么，关于风险的问题，显然我们经常被问到，因为我们的投资组合波动性很大。它们不像基准指数。当市场进入熊市时，投资者倾向于紧抱基准指数，而我们则朝着相反的方向前进。所以我想说，我们做我们该做的事，我们的顾问也期待我们这样做。他们不期望我们增持现金或做任何事情。他们也许会，那是他们的决定，对吧？至于我们在熊市中如何控制风险，我们会集中投资于我们最看好的公司。我们有一个评分系统，基于管理、执行、护城河或进入壁垒、产品、服务、领导力、重要的估值以及论文风险。因此，根据这些分数，我们进行集中投资。在牛市中，我相信我们正处于一个正在扩大的牛市中，我们倾向于分散投资，因为首次公开募股再次出现，而且我们对一些在熊市中卖出的公司有了更多信息。

埃隆·马斯克的薪酬方案与公司治理

Host: Give us the read on Elon's trillion-dollar pay package.

Host: 请给我们解读一下埃隆的万亿薪酬方案。

Cathie Wood: You know what's so interesting about it? This happened with the first model we put out. We put out a model once a year of Tesla and with our price target five years out. We looked at his first package and we said, "That looks like our model." And we looked at this one and we said, "That looks like our model." And our model is...

Cathie Wood: 你们知道这其中最有趣的是什么吗？这在我们发布第一个模型时就发生了。我们每年发布一次特斯拉的模型，并设定了五年的价格目标。我们看了他第一个薪酬方案，说：“这看起来像我们的模型。”然后我们看了这个方案，说：“这看起来也像我们的模型。”而我们的模型是……

Host: Your 10-year forecast has Tesla at 8.5 trillion.

Host: 您的十年预测显示特斯拉市值将达到8.5万亿美元。

Cathie Wood: Well, right, and we put out there five years. So, and I think if he delivers on humanoid robots (人形机器人: 具有人类外形和行为能力的机器人) the way he thinks he is, we don't have enough in there. So our price target is $2600. I think it's at $330 today, something like that.

Cathie Wood: 嗯，没错，我们发布的是五年预测。所以，我认为如果他能像他所设想的那样实现人形机器人，那我们的预测还不够。我们的价格目标是2600美元。我想今天大概是330美元左右。

Host: Exactly.

Host: 没错。

Cathie Wood: Yeah, $2600. And we have very little for humanoid in. But what Elon is capitalizing on is this convergence that I mentioned: robotics, energy storage, and AI. That convergence in the robo-taxi space is pretty much the same convergence in the humanoid robot space. Do you underwrite...

Cathie Wood: 是的，2600美元。我们对人形机器人的权重非常低。但埃隆正在利用我提到的这种融合：机器人技术、储能和人工智能。机器出租车领域的这种融合与人形机器人领域的融合几乎是相同的。您是否承保……

Host: ...compensation as part of your model? Meaning like when you look at a package like that, if you compare it to other CEOs, Zuck or whomever, different styles of compensation, Bezos famously took no compensation post the IPO. How do you think about that as a motivating factor or a necessary condition in 2025 to get results?

Host: ……薪酬作为您模型的一部分？意思是，当您看到这样的薪酬方案时，如果将其与其他CEO，比如扎克伯格或其他人进行比较，他们的薪酬风格各异，贝佐斯在IPO后 famously 没有领取薪酬。您如何看待这作为2025年取得成果的激励因素或必要条件？

Cathie Wood: I think it's huge. I mean, I wish more CEOs would do this. Elon's not going to be paid unless he reaches these milestones either. So I think it's very motivating to him. I think it also, you know, it's an incentive to shoot for the stars, but do it in a very first principles (第一性原理: 从最基本、最原始的假设出发进行思考和推理) way. You know, everything's physics-based and everything's milestone-based. And he's very disciplined. If people do not know that, they should. And when a milestone misses, he's in there on the floor.

Cathie Wood: 我认为这非常重要。我的意思是，我希望更多的CEO能这样做。埃隆除非达到这些里程碑，否则也不会获得报酬。所以我认为这对他来说是非常大的激励。我认为它也，你知道，是一种激励，让人去追求卓越，但要以一种非常第一性原理的方式去做。你知道，一切都基于物理学，一切都基于里程碑。而且他非常有纪律。如果人们不知道这一点，他们应该知道。当一个里程碑未能实现时，他会亲自到现场解决。

Host: Final quick question. As a stock picker, do you care where the companies are incorporated? Do you look at Delaware (特拉华州: 美国一个州，以其有利于公司的公司法而闻名) now and say there's fundamental business risk? I need to sort of, and/or do you cajole these folks now to maybe reincorporate in different places?

Host: 最后一个简短的问题。作为一名选股者，您是否关心公司注册地在哪里？您现在是否会审视特拉华州，并认为存在根本性的商业风险？我是否需要，或者您是否会劝说这些人现在考虑在不同地方重新注册公司？

Cathie Wood: We're not an activist investor (激进投资者: 购买公司大量股份以影响其管理层或政策的投资者). I have to be very careful and say that we are moving out of Delaware.

Cathie Wood: 我们不是激进投资者。我必须非常谨慎地说，我们正在迁出特拉华州。

Host: You, as your own business. Why? You don't trust them to be predictable? Is that the issue? They're not predictable now, and they're activist.

Host: 您，作为您自己的公司。为什么？您不相信他们是可预测的吗？是这个问题吗？他们现在不可预测，而且他们是激进的。

Cathie Wood: Activist. Activist. It's...

Cathie Wood: 激进。激进。这……

Host: In a bizarre way.

Host: 以一种奇怪的方式。

Cathie Wood: What business do they have overriding the shareholders of Tesla when it comes to a pay package? And all those shareholders who did that drive-by lawsuit...

Cathie Wood: 当涉及到薪酬方案时，他们有什么权力凌驾于特斯拉股东之上？还有那些发起“路过式”诉讼的股东……

Host: Twice. They did it twice.

Host: 两次。他们做了两次。

Cathie Wood: Yes.

Cathie Wood: 是的。

Host: I mean, it's unbelievable. That guy owned 10 shares. He did a 20-bagger, and then he's got the right to take away...

Host: 我的意思是，这简直令人难以置信。那家伙拥有10股股票。他获得了20倍的回报，然后他有权剥夺……

Host: It's like J suing Uber. Cathie, it's kind of...

Host: 这就像J起诉优步一样。凯茜，这有点……

Host: Cathie Wood.

Host: 凯茜·伍德。

Host: Cathie Wood, thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge.

Host: 凯茜·伍德，非常感谢您分享了这么多知识。

Host: You're amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Host: 您太棒了。非常感谢您抽出时间。

Cathie Wood: Great to see you all. Thank you.

Cathie Wood: 很高兴见到大家。谢谢。