Stephen Bartlett: There's mention of Greenland being invaded by the United States. There's the situation in Iran. Trump has snatched Maduro from Venezuela. There's talk of China taking back Taiwan. What the hell is going on?

Konstantin Kisin: Well, what you're seeing is the West becoming weaker and emboldening our enemies and the final collapse of a shared myth that we were living in a structured world where everything is done according to the rules. That is now gone. And Trump is acting in recognition of that reality, saying we are not going to play by the fake rules anymore that no one else is playing by.

Stephen Bartlett: Is there a risk with this strategy?

Konstantin Kisin: Of course. And we can talk about the reasons for it. I think it's really important. So, Russia invading Ukraine was not an accident. It was a consequence of the fact that Putin felt this was the moment to test the waters. Can we now do the things we've always wanted to do? Because the West lost its focus and sense of purpose. So, for example, I don't know if you know this, Europe is 12% of the world's population, 25% of the world's GDP, and 60% of the world's welfare spending. Germany destroyed its nuclear facilities, thereby making itself reliant on Russian gas. And in Britain, we've destroyed our manufacturing... and we've run down our armed forces because we have felt so safe and so comfortable because there's been no consequence.

Konstantin Kisin: Well, the consequences are here per person. We have less money today than we did 20 years ago. We have the highest tax burden in peace time history. We're driving out the entrepreneurs and we've already seen a decline in our power in the world and our influence in the world. That's the big danger. But there is an opportunity to turn things around if we can make these big decisions.

Stephen Bartlett: There is so much going on in the world right now that it is incredibly confusing to somebody like me who doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about geopolitics or the bigger picture... But every time we look up at the news, there's Trump has snatched Maduro from Venezuela. There's the war with Russia and Ukraine. There's something going on with Iran. There's mention of Greenland being invaded by the United States. There's talk of China taking back Taiwan. I wanted to speak to you today to understand your perspective on the bigger picture here.

Konstantin Kisin: Well, what you're seeing is the final collapse of what people have described as the post-World War II order... In 1991, the West lost its focus and its sense of purpose because we were like, well, we defeated our great rival... And what's happening now is that entire framework that we have had since World War II is disintegrating very rapidly. International law was... a kind of shared myth... Well, international law really was that, but even weaker than that... because for international law, there's never been anything that could enforce that law other than the most powerful country in the world, right? So if China invades Taiwan, no one's going to do anything about it because there is no overarching authority with the military to be able to do anything about it. And so that shared fiction that we had... is now gone. And Trump is acting in recognition of that reality.

Stephen Bartlett: How much of this is linked to nuclear weapons? ...It somewhat feels to me that the reason why the US wouldn't get involved if China took Taiwan is because they have nukes. And the reason why the US is a little bit intimidated by Russia is because they have nukes. So is it really the world is splitting into nuclear powers and anyone with nukes can do what the they want?

Konstantin Kisin: And that has always been the case except we've been constrained by the framework of the rules-based order. But that got taken apart. And this is where I think the West and the United States including needs to take responsibility because the war in Afghanistan and Iraq even more so completely undermined our moral credibility... So we have eroded our moral authority and we've also eroded our military strength... If the precedent is that people with nuclear weapons can do what they want... what would be the most rational thing for you to do if you're a smaller country? That's the big danger.

Stephen Bartlett: Where does Britain and Europe sit in the sort of rankings of importance in the world and power?

Konstantin Kisin: It's plummeting. I mean, look at the Trump's 12-day war in Iran, destroying Iran's nuclear facilities. No one even asked the British what we thought about anymore... The problem is we have made ourselves irrelevant because everything that Trump is looking at is strength. Right? Is Britain strong now in the world? No. Is Europe strong now in the world? No. And so if you're not strong, you will not be taken seriously... Americans are looking at Europe and they're going why would we be allied with people who are not useful to us?

Stephen Bartlett: Why don't we matter?

Konstantin Kisin: We don't matter because we have nothing to bring to the table... our debt interest repayments annually 1.5 times heading towards being twice our defense budget. We spent more on paying off the debt... than we spend on defense... Britain's GDP per capita is lower today than it was in 2006... And then you're going, well, you've just been calling this guy (Trump) every name under the sun and now you want to be relevant.

Stephen Bartlett: I think this is a really important connected point on the subject of socialism and the rise of socialism that we will see is this point of AI... there seems to be a consensus that socialism will only increase because the job losses associated with AI are going to be pretty quick and pretty extreme... driving is like one of the biggest employees in the world... and my car drives itself.

Konstantin Kisin: In a world in which no one has a job, I'm like 100% on board with communism... If all the wealth in the world is going to be created by robots, a world in which the products of their labor only accrues to 50 people who had the idea... that's not going to sustain itself. And so wealth redistribution is going to be unavoidable in that situation. And it can either happen voluntarily or it's going to happen at the end of bayonets.

Stephen Bartlett: What should I teach my children?

Konstantin Kisin: People are like, oh yeah, they should be a plumber. I don't think you're going to need plumbers 15, 20 years from now either... You're going to have to show a lot of flex in this modern world. So, you're going to have to be personable. You're going to have to be resourceful. You're going to have to be creative. You're going to have to go have a positive go-getter mindset.

Stephen Bartlett: What's unique about you is you do appear to be very wedded to objective truth as you see it versus being ideologically captured by either side... what is it about the right that you take most issue with at the moment?

Konstantin Kisin: There's something that I call the woke right, which is essentially an identitarian resentment victimhood-based movement on the right... The mainstream right has utterly rejected these people, which I think is really reassuring. But... if the right allows its extremist fringe to do the same thing, then lots of people are going to distance themselves from that. So, I think the right has a tremendous opportunity... There's a craving for that sense of order to come back.

Stephen Bartlett: Who was the biggest non-family member influence in your life and how did they make you a better person?

Konstantin Kisin: I got a huge opportunity to tour with Jordan Peterson for three weeks... seeing that this is a man who the way he is in public is exactly the way that he is in private. And so he really one of those very very rare people who preaches what he practices... He puts the fork down, stands up, and gives them all the exact same amount of attention... And that was incredibly inspiring for me.