播客开场与传奇人物戴维·克罗姆比的致敬
本期OnPolitics播客以轻松的开场拉近与听众的距离，主持人史蒂夫·派克（Steve Pac）和约翰·迈克尔·麦格拉思（John Michael McGrath）首先分享了一则关于多伦多枫叶队（Toronto Maple Leafs）传奇球员比尔·巴里尔科（Bill Barilko: 1951年斯坦利杯总决赛中打入制胜球，随后在一次钓鱼事故中不幸丧生）的动人故事，纪念他那载入史册的进球75周年。接着，播客将焦点转向一位备受尊敬的政治家：前多伦多市长戴维·克罗姆比（David Crombie），祝贺他90岁生日。克罗姆比因其在1970年代对多伦多市议会的改革精神而被称为“完美小市长”（Tiny Perfect Mayor），他深耕城市政治近六十年，始终站在重要议题的中心，无论是海滨开发、绿化带保护，还是多伦多校董会的泳池存续问题。即使到了90岁高龄，他依然活跃，对现任政府的绿化带政策和土地规划政策提出直言不讳的批评，甚至曾辞去绿化带委员会主席一职以示抗议。克罗姆比之所以能获得跨越政治光谱的普遍尊重，在于他数十年来对公共服务的坚定承诺和原则立场，被誉为他们所遇见过的最优秀的政治家之一。
Original English Source
Welcome everyone to the OnPaly podcast. I'm Steve Pac and I'm John Michael McGrath. Today on the pod, would you like to buy an executive jet from the premier of Ontario, 10 years old, never actually used by the premier, only 29 million bucks? Yes, we're going to talk about the so-called gravy plane. [music] The opposition wants so-called surveillance pricing out of Ontario. So far, the government isn't biting. Here's a question. Should we prevent foreign ownership of farmland so we can maintain food sovereignty in Ontario? We'll discuss that here because they're discussing that at the Ontario legislature. And in your column, my column, I'm going to look at the Ford government's pension for secrecy. And I've got more to say about the executive jet fiasco, starting with doesn't anybody in the premier's office know anything about Queens Park history? We have seen this movie before, people. It's Friday, April 24th, 2026. So, let's get to it. JMM, a little Stanley Cup playoffs sugar to get us started here. Is there something happening in hockey? Well, not in Toronto. [laughter] So, yeah, you're probably wondering, why am I wearing this Maple Leafs jersey? The Leafs are out of the playoffs. I thought you might be wondering, so I'm going to put you out of your misery. 75 years ago this week, the greatest goal ever scored in the history of the century plus old Toronto Maple Leaf franchise was scored. It was scored by a guy named Bill Barilo, 24 years old. He won his fourth Stanley Cup in 5 years. The Leafs were a dynasty then, if you can imagine. He scored the goal in overtime to win the Leafs the cup. Does that sound familiar? That's a lyric from the tragically hip song from the 1990s. Barilo goes on a fishing trip after a few months after winning the cup. The plane goes down north of his hometown of Timonss for a the biggest manhunt in Canadian history. They find nothing. Hm. 11 years later, by accident, they find the bodies. The Leafs had not won a cup in 11 years. In '62, they find the bodies. The Leafs win the cup. Oh, wow. It is an amazing iconic Canadian and hockey story, and I'm doing a documentary on it. I'm directing a documentary on it for TVO. It's called Frozen in Time. And we're going to talk about this this handsome bashion bill they nickname it. He was a tough guy 24 year old Ukrainian kid who lost his life in the wilds of Northern Ontario 75 years ago. And the goal he scored was last Tuesday. The 75th anniversary of the greatest goal in Leaf history was last Tuesday. That's why I'm wearing. And let me stand up for those who [laughter] boy. That was a good-look logo, wasn't it? What a beautiful jersey. Anyway, there you go. Uh very nice. Uh, I have no such uh story to uh uh describe my uh t-shirt which is uh here because of the extremely complicated and nuance story of I found it in a thrift store and I really liked the look of it. Well, we should describe it. It's Canadian flag in the shape of Batman. Uh in the shape of the Batman insignia. Yes. Um I uh uh I'm old enough to remember the uh first Michael Keaton Batman film. You're adorable. You say you're old enough to remember the first Batman motion picture. Hey man, like I I just looked at the YouTube analytics. A lot of our listeners are not. [laughter] I'm old enough to remember the old TV series in the 1960s. Did you ever see that? Oh yeah. Yeah. It was in reruns when I was a kid. Adam West, Bert Ward. Yes. Yeah. That was a scream. Yes. I want before we go on, we are of course going to do our three issues and our columns and our mailbag, but I want to talk about uh a a former politician right now. And the re well, I'll hold off on the reason for now. We had a mayor in the city of Toronto from 1972 to 1978 named David Krombi. Yes. And he was part of a spirit of reform on that Toronto city council. And he was a good mayor. And in fact, he was so and he was about 5 foot2. And so his nickname was, as you can imagine, the tiny perfect mayor. Yes. He left in 78 to become a progressive conservative member of parliament for Rosedale. He won there. He had a very short stint in the Joe Clark government. It was over before you knew it. Opposition for four years. And then in 1983, first picture, please, Sheldon. He ran for the leadership of the Federal Progressive Conservative Party. That's him on the right. That's former Deputy Premier Bob Welsh leaning over with the glasses on beside him. and he ran against Joe Clark, Brian Molr Rooney, John Crosby. It was a great leadership convention, four ballots. And Mr. Crombi was out fairly early. He didn't have a great run. Brian Maloney made a funny joke. Like David Cromby's French was bad. [laughter] Anyway, he had a good time on that. Uh Money obviously won the convention. A year later he won the biggest majority ever. Um Mr. Crombi is 90 years old today and I wanted to acknowledge that because he has been at the center of every important political issue in this city for six decades and you know on the waterfront on the green belt when when the Toronto school board can't figure out how to save its pools and keep them open David Crombie is the guy they call. He's one of the finest politicians I've ever met. Let's put a picture up of him if we could, Sheldon. More recent. This is a year ago. That's um some some of you people of a certain generation will remember Jackie Perin who used to be a news anchor on CTV. And there's David Krommy with a great smile. That's at a a lunchon we had a year or so ago. And um I want to wish him a happy birthday because he's 90 years old and still going gang busters. And you know he continues to be uh a voice uh well certainly when for example uh this uh current government has made changes to uh green belt policy or conservation policy land use planning policy that uh uh Mr. Krombi uh disagrees with. He has not been afraid to put his name to uh criticisms of this government. He was the chair of the green bell council and resigned in protest over the Ford government's whatever you want to call it fiasco management of the thing. Yes. Um and uh you know I don't know how many people there are in contemporary politics. There are a few that I could think of. Um but but there are not many who uh command that kind of respect from uh really across the political spectrum. Right? You you would not I mean it was Kathleen Wyn who uh asked David Crombi to uh review uh her government's green belt policies, right? uh you know uh it would not be difficult for me to imagine Olivia Chow asking for his input on on that kind of thing right across the political spectrum uh he he does command that respect cuz he's a legend. Yes. So legends command respect. Yes.道格·福特私人飞机风波：沟通失误与民意反弹
播客随即转入本期焦点议题：安大略省长道格·福特（Doug Ford）的私人飞机采购风波。故事围绕一个年营收达2500亿加元的组织（安大略省政府）领导人，认为拥有私人飞机能显著提升工作效率。然而，这并非私人公司决策，而是政府行为，因此引发了公众强烈不满。面对2900万加元公务机的质疑，福特省长几乎立即让步，承认“犯了错”，并宣布将出售飞机。福特试图将自己塑造成媒体过度审视的受害者，抱怨媒体存在“双重标准”，然而，主持人约翰·迈克尔·麦格拉思指出，民众真正关注的是省长自身的“双重标准”——如果反对党在位时提议购买此类飞机，福特在反对党席位上会大加挞伐。福特及其团队的辩护策略显得尤为拙劣，例如，他声称魁北克省购买公务机用于政府用途，但CBC报道这些飞机实际是医疗用途，不归省长个人支配。更令人费解的是，福特反复宣称自己从不报销开销，也不对外宣扬此事，但事实上他在之前的记者会上多次提及并以此自诩。这种沟通策略（Communication Strategy: 政府或公共机构为影响公众认知和行为而采取的计划性沟通行动）的混乱和前后矛盾，在福特已决定撤回购机计划后，显得更加“令人困惑”。这种在“撤退”之际仍试图合理化行动，却又无法自圆其说的做法，无疑加剧了公众的不信任。
Original English Source
Should we talk about the plane? I guess we got it, don't we? [laughter] Off to issue one. Okay, here's the story. The head of a $250 billion a year organization thinks he could be so much more efficient in the way he does his job if his employers bought him a plane. The job requires a lot of travel and access to a plane would allow him to travel with much greater ease. Now, if that organization were a private corporation, this would not be a story. But the organization isn't a private corporation. It's the province of Ontario. And the executive in question is the premier who received an earful from many people who told him a $29 million executive jet was not an appropriate purchase. The premier almost immediately backed down, announced he'd made a mistake and would sell the jet. Doug Ford earlier this week. You know, there's no one in this country uh that is scrutinized more than I am. I'm willing to take that. Uh what kind of uh really disturbs me is the inconsistency with the media. I guess there's a double standard and that's my position. I have to take that. Okay. [laughter] Well, pick up the story. Where do you want to go? So, I want to talk a little bit about this um the apparent communications strategy, I guess, here where the the premier is presenting himself as a a victim. You heard him refer to the uh the double standard of the media. Uh, I I guess I will say as a member of the media, nobody cares about our double standards. What people care about is the double standards the premier is holding here, right? Like if any other Ontario premier were proposing to buy themsel a $29 million jet, Doug Ford in the opposition benches would be raising hell about it. And I think that's kind of all we need to say about that. um you know when he says that he he gets more media scrutiny than any other politician. Well, a I'm not sure that's entirely true. Uh Justin Trudeau has been out of politics for a while now and people are still writing stories about who he's dating. So, a little bit of scrutiny there. Yeah. Um and uh and and some of the the defenses uh have turned out uh not to be accurate, right? He said that, you know, uh the the Quebec government bought uh a bunch of planes uh a bunch of jets for themselves. Uh CBC reported that in fact those jets are for medical use and and not uh at the disposal of the the the Quebec premier uh the way this one would have been. I don't want to belabor this point, but he also in that that press conference, you know, said uh you know, he he never expenses anything in his office. Uh he he did not begrudge other MPPPs who need to. And then he very curiously claimed that he never brings this up. He never publicizes this. He had mentioned it at a press conference just the previous week. He has said it multiple times on camera. He congratulates himself quite a bit about this fact. So to claim that he never publicizes it is it's a really puzzling communications strategy. Um particularly when he has backed away from this. He has he's given this up. He he clearly got an earful from voters and uh uh perhaps members of his caucus were kind of surprised to learn about this. I don't know. Um but yeah, to to to make all of these claims when you are already retreating from it, it it is mystifying to me.隐秘决策的代价：历史重演与长期政治影响
本次私人飞机风波凸显了政府隐秘决策（Secret Decision: 未经充分公开讨论或透明程序而做出的重要政策或行政决定）的潜在危害。主持人史蒂夫·派克强调，如果政府能预先进行充分沟通，解释购买公务机的必要性，或许能避免如此强烈的反弹。他甚至半开玩笑地提出了一种“先提超高价再降价”的政治策略，以在公众预期管理上占据主动。然而，福特政府的问题在于其“为民”的人设（Public Persona: 公众人物在媒体和公众面前塑造的形象）与购买豪华公务机之间存在巨大反差。福特八年来一直宣称自己是“为人民服务”而非精英阶层，但此举与这一形象严重不符。
播客还回顾了45年前比尔·戴维斯（Bill Davis）担任省长时期购买挑战者（Challenger）公务机也引发轩然大波的历史事件。当时的民意同样两极分化，但最终戴维斯政府在公众压力下出售了飞机，并将其置换为灭火用的水上飞机。这一事件中，Advanced Symbolics, Inc.（一家人工智能民意调查机构）的亚伦·凯利（Aaron Kelly）指出，公众对飞机的支持与反对比例约为五五开，但随着时间的推移，反对意见正在消退。然而，福特政府似乎过早地恐慌并出售了飞机。这种历史的巧合让主持人感叹，昆士兰公园（Queens Park）的许多工作人员似乎缺乏历史记忆。民意调查显示，公众对私人飞机的支持率大约是50/50，但反对声音更为强烈和持久。
这一事件的政治影响是深远的：
- 公众问责：此后，当政府官员在预算问题上要求社区中心、医院或学校削减开支时，选民有充分的理由质疑：“你们没钱给我们的社区，却有2900万加元给省长买飞机？”
- “汽油厂丑闻”：这与此前道尔顿·麦金蒂（Dalton McGuinty）领导的自由党政府因取消汽油厂项目而付出高昂代价的“汽油厂丑闻”（Gas Plant Scandal: 加拿大安大略省自由党政府在2011年省选前夕，为争取选票而取消建造两座燃气发电厂的政治决策，导致纳税人承担了数亿加元的巨额赔偿，成为重大政治丑闻）如出一辙，尽管民众可能不理解复杂的能源法规，但“数十亿加元”的标签足以让他们认为政府在为政治私利浪费公帑。
- 党内危机：环球新闻的报道指出，有保守党省议员认为这次飞机风波可能是省长垮台的开端，这表明党内已有不满和担忧。
主持人提出，也许政府可以学习过去处理棘手政治议题（如议员养老金和涨薪）的经验，通过尽早与反对党沟通，寻求跨党派共识，避免将问题政治化。然而，福特政府显然未能采取这种策略。
Original English Source
The communications strategy, and I like the way you called it the apparent communication strategy because I see no strategy here whatsoever, but this this could have been done. I mean, let's face it, there are a lot of people out there who would acknowledge that if you're running a $250 billion a year company and you've got to be traveling all over the place in a province that's the size of France and Germany put together or France and Spain, I should say, France and Spain put together. You know, it'd be very helpful to have a plane that could be more efficient the way you do your job. But that was never explained. There was there was no explanation advanced as to why this made sense. You need to lay the groundwork with some serious communications before you go and do something like this. One option could have been they could have gone and buy bought a $75 million plane. And if people raised hell, then they could have said, "All right, fine. Fine. That's too much. So, we'll just take the $29 million plane and probably could have gotten away with that." He could have said, "It's not for me. It's for my Sorry, I should because I think we're going to get an earful." You would not be endorsing that strategy, but it would be a totally classic political maneuver. Absolutely correct. Well said. He could have said, "We need this plane and it's not just for me. You know, other people in my team will use it. It might get some medical use, like the Quebec situation there." Um, we can be responsive to requests. You know, I get invited to go to places all over this province all the time. A jet would really help. Although, in most of Northern Ontario, the airports aren't big enough for a jet like that to land. But that's another story. The problem, the biggest problem for Doug Ford here is that this is just so offbrand. Mr. Ford has spent eight years telling us that he's for the people. He has been telling us well and of course on his time on Toronto City Council before that as well that he is not one of these elitists who you know sips tea with his baby finger in the air. He's with the people for the people. And you go and you buy yourself an executive jet and that's not exactly a for the people move. No. Oh, and and I I do want to just take one moment to say like I don't think it's a healthy impulse in Canadian politics for people to have a sort of a like no our politicians can't have nice things reaction. You you when you indulge in that too easily, you get what the the situation we have federally with sorry I always forget the actual address 24 Sussex. Um you know the the prime minister's official residence which is currently like abandoned and dilapidated and and you know we should be able to spend money. so that the prime minister of our country has like a it doesn't need to be like the world's most opulent mansion, but like it should not be falling apart. Correct. And so I I do want to push back against the the the the most sort of um knee-jerk impulse um and say that you know and I said this uh in what I wrote for the website this week that you know I'm open to the argument that as we say the the chief executive of a $200 billion organization um might in fact need that uh that jet. But to go back to the apparent communication strategy, um let's let's uh just review the facts here. This was revealed to the public on a Friday in the Toronto Star. The government announced it was bailing on the Sunday. So 3 days. Uh I cannot prove this and I I want to be clear about this. Maybe I shouldn't speculate uh on on TVO's airwaves, but Um you and I both know that's about how long it takes to get reliable polling data, right? two, three days is about how long it takes to get data you can trust out of a poll. The evidence before us is compatible with the hypothesis [laughter] that uh they made this public on Friday and they wanted to get the public opinion information. They got it on Sunday and knew that this was absolutely not going to fly, that it was going to be politically toxic and they bailed. The other thing that I want to mention here because it is it is kind of funny for those of us who have a bit of a longer memory uh this week government house leader Steve Clark in defending uh the decision to uh back away from this uh plane purchase and I sorry I don't think we have actually established the the premier has said this week that Bombardier has bought the plane back from the Ontario government uh for the same sum that we paid for it. So what a coinky dink. Yeah, nice to have friends. Um but so taxpayers are not on the hook for any of this. Uh but Steve Clark said uh and I quote, "It's never too late to do the right thing." Now, where have I heard that quote before? Now, you might have heard it from a former premier, Daltton McGinty, who uh used that those exact words when his government was under fire for uh not building the gas fired power plants in Oakville and Missaga. Two points to make on this. Uh one, the talking point did not work. It's not like the opposition parties all said, "Oh, well, when you put it like that, I guess there's no problem here, right?" [laughter] They continued to attack the Liberals over uh that decision for many years afterwards. Um the other thing that I want to point out here is that, you know, cabinet approved this purchase, right? They had to both sort of the political principle and I think just uh the the the political reality of it is is that means like everybody is on the hook for this decision politically. Um, every time a minister going forward has to make a tough decision about where to spend money and more importantly where not to spend money, voters are going to be within their rights to say, "Well, wait a second. Like, you don't have money for my community center, my hospital, my kids school, but you had $30 million or $29 million for a jet for the premier." That is exactly the comparison that was so toxic for the liberals for so long, which you know that the billiond dollar gas plants, right? Even when people didn't necessarily understand all of the details of power plant regulation and and how those costs are reflected in electricity bills, they knew that billion dollar uh price tag. They they understood and it it it it stood in as a shorthand for uh this government is spending money on cynical political priorities and not on the things that we in the public need. So there are actually two more things to say about this story. Sure. Which we will save for our columns later because I touch on those two [clears throat] other things in our columns. You got anything else on this? uh you know one one other quick thing I will just say um the uh global news had a good story this week uh looking at uh some some of the reaction within the PC party uh one uh PC MPPP was quoted as saying that this would be uh the beginning of the premier's undoing and you know I'm not sure I would go that far uh but frankly somebody who's won elections probably knows more about this than I do um but I I would advise the premier to take that kind of talk seriously when the phone call is coming from inside the house. You know, the phone call is coming from inside the house. Good one. And with that, let's get off to issue two.监控定价：数字时代的消费者剥削新形式
播客接着探讨了加拿大新民主党（New Democratic Party, NDP）关注的一个新兴社会问题——监控定价（Surveillance Pricing: 指企业利用消费者个人数据，如浏览历史、地理位置、购买习惯等，为不同个体提供差异化价格的策略）。这种定价机制在日益数字化的零售环境中变得普遍，尤其是在亚马逊（Amazon）和谷歌（Google）等在线零售巨头中。其核心原理是，企业通过收集海量个人数据，构建详细的用户画像，从而能够为不同消费者提供不同的价格，即使是同一种商品。虽然每次差价可能很小（如2美元），但累积起来对消费者和企业的利润影响巨大，美国联邦贸易委员会（FTC）的研究显示，这可使公司利润增加1%到5%。
监控定价的危害在于其隐蔽性和不公平性，消费者在不知情的情况下可能为商品支付更高的价格。主持人指出，目前监控定价主要集中在在线零售领域，但担忧它可能蔓延到实体商店。例如，如果商店采用数字价签，同一款麦片可能在几分钟内对不同顾客显示不同价格。这种做法被消费者权益倡导者视为一种剥削形式，因为它利用了消费者信息不对称的弱点。
Original English Source
If you followed politics over the past year, you'll know that the New Democratic Party, both federally and proincially, has had a tough time getting traction on a wide variety of issues. The result has been a near wipeout federally, and a party that got only 18% of the votes in the last provincial election. But the NDP thinks it's now hit on a big and growing concern. It's something called surveillance pricing. And before we go on, I should add that I have a family member who works for the minister who is carrying this file on surveillance pricing. So I put that out there in the interest of full disclosure. Now that that's out of the way, JMM, why don't we start by just having you tell us what surveillance pricing is. Right. So uh if you haven't heard of this term before, it's it's going around. It's becoming more prominent, but it's entirely possible you haven't heard this term before. The idea here is that and and we're primarily at this point talking about online retailers, though that might change. I'll get into that in a moment. Um and the idea here is that a company like Amazon or Google or whoever they have collected so much data uh from your phone, from your uh browsing history, uh from the the whole uh uh trail of breadcrumbs you leave on the internet as you uh just do normal things in the world that they know uh really an extraordinary amount about you and your life and they are able to use that information to price things differentially. So, you know, uh if if you go shopping for something on Amazon, say you need a USB charger, Amazon is going to know things about you and me, and they could very well say, "Well, you know what? We're going to charge Steve $32, but we're going to charge John Michael $30." And it's we're usually talking about small margins, but the idea is that frankly, uh people are getting charged unfairly uh based on things that they don't control. uh the uh FTC in the US has looked at this and found that firms using these methods and and it it is being used uh this is not like a an entirely hypothetical scenario. Uh the FTC in the US sorry that's the federal trade commission a body uh one of the consumer protection bodies uh they have uh looked at this and found that these methods uh can increase uh the profits for a firm anywhere between 1 and 5%. So that doesn't sound like a big number, but then of course multiplied by tens of millions of purchases and pretty soon you're talking real money. Yeah, exactly. And and even on a household level, you know, paying an extra, you know, 2 to 3% on your groceries throughout the year, that can add up pretty quickly, right? Um so what for now, one of the we really are talking about, you know, algorithmic pricing, surveillance pricing, these are uh different names for the same thing. uh primarily talking about online retailers, but uh there is some concern that this could make its way into the uh brickandmortar world, right? If you've ever seen a store with um uh digital price tags on the shelves, uh the concern is that literally, you know, you walk down the cereal aisle and it'll say one price for Cheerios uh or, you know, insert your preferred cereal here. [laughter] Um and then, you know, a few minutes later, I walk down the same cereal aisle and it shows me a different price. Right? These are the kinds of uh concerns and uh you know consumer advocates obviously uh think this uh is basically a a form of um exploitation.反对监控定价：新民主党立法推动与沟通策略转型
面对“监控定价”带来的消费者剥削风险，新民主党（NDP）正在积极推动立法以禁止此类行为。新民主党领袖马里特·斯泰尔斯（Marit Styles）于上周提出一项动议，敦促政府禁止这种定价模式。她的行动借鉴了曼尼托巴省（Manitoba）新民主党省长韦伯·卡诺（Wab Kinew）的经验，该省已引入立法，旨在禁止线上和实体店的监控定价。此外，自由党（Liberal Party）也提出了类似的私人议员法案。绿党（Green Party）领袖迈克·施赖纳（Mike Shriner）同样反对这种反市场策略。尽管各反对党在此问题上达成一致，但福特省长表示不同意，认为杂货商之间的竞争是确保低价的最佳方式。
新民主党认为“监控定价”是一个赢得民意的政治议题，并投入大量资源进行宣传，包括制作YouTube视频。这反映了新民主党近期在数字沟通策略（Digital Communication Strategy: 运用社交媒体、视频平台等数字渠道与公众进行互动和信息传递的策略）上的显著转变。在2025年省选后，斯泰尔斯在党内领导力审查中虽然过关，但支持率并不理想。为回应这一结果，她重组了团队，并明确采纳了由佐兰·曼达尼（Zoran Mandani）在纽约市成功竞选活动中使用的数字沟通模式。NDP的视频制作精良、信息量大且富有冲击力，旨在争取公众对禁止监控定价的支持，尽管其本质仍是党派政治宣传。
Original English Source
How did this issue make its way to Queens Park? Right. So uh NDP leader Mar Styles last week introduced a uh opposition day motion urging the government to prohibit exactly this practice. Uh she was following the lead of uh fellow New Democrat and Manitoba Premier Webb Canoe. Uh Manitoba has introduced uh legislation to prohibit this as a business practice both online and in physical stores. Uh that bill is currently before the Manitoba legislature. Last I checked it is at the second reading stage. Um the Liberals, for what it's worth, also introduced a private members bill that would also prohibit surveillance pricing. Uh and uh we actually asked uh Green Party leader Mike Shriner about this uh last week when he was on the show. So I think we had to cut that bit for time. But he uh also said he opposes these uh kinds of tactics by businesses uh you know and and believes that they are anti-market in a a more fundamental way. So I I say all that just to say the opposition parties are all in agreement here that uh they oppose uh surveillance pricing and uh would like to to see it prohibited in Ontario. Uh the government however uh disagrees and uh the premier has said last week that he believes that competition between grocerers is the best way to assure low prices. Well, having said that, the NDP thinks they've got a political winner on their hands here and they are going to the wall on this issue. They've made a YouTube video. They've really decided to put some resources into getting the word out on this. How's it working? You know, this is actually part of an interesting shift uh that we've seen from the NDP uh in the last few months. Um, folks will remember, of course, that Styles uh survived a leadership review vote after uh the 2025 election, but it was not the comfortable margin that she would have uh preferred. And uh one of the things she did to uh show NDP supporters that she's taking that uh verdict seriously is that she's changed up her team uh inside her office and uh also seems to have uh really uh doubled down on a new digital communication strategy. Uh it occurs to me that you know both our first and second segments we've really emphasized communication strategy from different people but uh hey communications is an important part of politics. Um the new digital comm strategy is explicitly modeled on Zoran Mandani's very successful election campaign uh from last year in New York City. Uh that is not me speculating or or hypothesizing about that. Uh, one of the YouTube videos from last year is literally titled, "If you think this looks like a Zoron Mandani fundraising video," you'd be right. Um, it's nice when they spell it out for the slow kids in the class like me. [laughter] Um, and you know, the the video that her uh party put up last week uh about uh surveillance pricing uh really setting the stage for their uh opposition day debate uh I I think is is very much part of uh that strategy. Uh it is um a very um punchy, well prodduced, snappy uh video that is um informative. Uh it uh you know, it obviously like it's still partisan political communication. I I would not want anybody to think that this is a a a business seminar on [laughter] you know uh pricing strategies among large uh retail firms. Uh it it is is very clearly out to to to make a political point. uh but it does so uh very well and and in the style that we've seen uh used very successfully uh by as I say the Mandani campaign but also uh by other uh organizations in the US. I mean it very explicitly cites uh a group called More Perfect Union which is as the name implies a sort of pro- labor uh proconsumer uh organization that uh has uh also led the charge in the US against uh so-called surveillance pricing. Should we take a peek at some of it? Yeah, if we've got a clip absolutely. Let's do it. Roll tape. I'm introducing a motion to ban predatory pricing in Ontario. Doug Ford should put his money where his mouth is and protect you from the American tech giants and corporations that are ripping you off. Uh so there are you know two questions that we are not going to know the answer to for a while though. Uh the first I think is uh whether this helps bring the NDP out of third place which is where they are currently in the polls. They are behind uh the liberals who are in turn behind the progressive conservatives still. Um and you know the second question is whether this in fact does quiet some of the the internal criticism uh that uh Styles faced and that that caused her to make those changes in her office. Uh you know on that front I I think we're we're seeing some earlier signs that that you know the party uh is appreciating the a more um punchier comm strategy if I could put it that way. Uh punchy in multiple senses of the word. Um but uh yeah, we are going to have to wait and see a little bit. Of course, we are um presumably a few years from the next election. So uh everybody has time to sort of plant seeds and see what grows. Presumably and apparently one never knows. One never knows. Not anymore. No, that is true. Okay, let's get off to issue three.农地外国所有权争议：安大略省的食物主权保护
加拿大一些关键行业（如电视广播）不允许外国所有，这引出了一个重要问题：农地是否也应如此？安大略省政府正通过立法寻求保护农地免受外国所有权的影响。农业、食品和农业商业部长特雷弗·琼斯（Trevor Jones）引入了**《保护安大略省食物独立法案》（Protecting Ontario's Food Independence Act），即109号法案**（Bill 109），旨在规范安大略省的农地所有权。
然而，令人担忧的是，政府在提出法案时，对于外国人在安大略省拥有多少农地这一核心问题，缺乏确切数据。他们只知道答案“大于零”，但没有具体的比例或规模。这凸显了一个反复出现的问题：政府在采取行动之前，往往未能充分了解问题的严重性。尽管如此，109号法案的一个主要目标就是赋予政府收集此类数据的权力，并以此启动关于如何处理农地外国所有权问题的公众咨询程序。
法案的当前设想是，对于目前已由非加拿大人拥有的农地，现状将维持不变，政府不会强制其出售。但当这些土地未来进行交易时，法律将要求它们只能出售给加拿大公民或居民，从而限制外国所有权的进一步扩张。这与十年前安大略省对住宅地产外国所有权的担忧异曲同工，当时政府同样通过征收非居民投机税来应对，并在此过程中收集了宝贵的数据。此举表明，政府正试图在保护本省食物主权和数据收集之间找到平衡。
Original English Source
There are some industries in Canada that are not allowed to be owned by foreigners. Legacy television stations, for example, Fox or CNN would not be allowed to buy CBC, CTV or TVO. What about farmland? Well, apparently the province thinks that also needs protection from foreign ownership and the government has moved to do just that. Details, please, JM. Right. On Wednesday, uh, Agriculture, Food, and Aggra Business Minister Trevor Jones introduced Bill 109, the Protecting Ontario's Food Independence Act. Uh the bill is going to give the government the power to regulate the ownership of farmland in Ontario. Um and it's kind of a curious case. Uh this is another one of these cases where uh as usual we received a technical briefing from uh the government and they don't actually know how serious a problem this is. uh you know we we were asking for you know like how many farms in Ontario uh are owned by non-Canadian non-residents and and they just don't know they they know the answer is greater than zero. [laughter] uh they have some data from uh collecting the land transfer tax of all things uh that tells them okay like some money is clearly changing hands in a way that is like it's showing the government that that some farmland is is owned by non-Canadians but they were very clear that they just do not have good data on this and that is part of what this legislation is intended to address. uh you know for starters it will allow the government to collect the the data that they want and this is part of a a a consultation process that will begin uh about you know what to do about this issue. You always assume that when a government introduces a bill they're trying to solve a problem. This is a bill that has been introduced and we don't really know if the issue is a problem. Right. We we just don't we don't know how many we don't know what percentage of land is foreign own. What percentage of farmland? No. And I mean this is frankly an old story. I mean, folks might remember back the, you know, I'd say the middle of the last decade, there was a a great deal of concern in Ontario about uh foreign ownership of like residential properties, right? Uh the idea being that, you know, condos were being built, but uh nobody was actually living in in them. They were just being held by foreign investors. And that was part of the uh uh motivation for introducing the non-resident speculation tax that the wind government uh introduced and the Ford government has expanded. um which uh was in part to address this part in part to like directly address this this question of you know are foreigners buying up homes that we need and presumably want to see occupied and are they just leaving them unoccupied that was one issue. Um but also you know the government just did not know what the scale of the problem was and so uh say what you will but like taxing these kinds of things is is one way to collect the information. The government is very motivated to collect that money and that's how they get information the money and the information. Is there any indication that this bill would require land owned by foreigners to be sold? Like would it force a sale of of land owned by foreigners? So the government says no. Their current thinking is basically that a in a case where farmland is owned by a non-Canadian that they the status quo would prevail. They would not send in jack booted thugs to force them to sell the land or anything like that. But when it came time for that land to be sold, in theory, uh the the law would require them to sell it only to another to a Canadian. Uh they would not be allowed to sell it to another uh non-Canadian or non-resident. Um I I'm speaking in generalities here because and and the government is is saying, you know, they they don't have a a clear regulatory framework in mind just yet. This is all part of a process that they are going to start. Um and and introducing this legislation is the beginning of that process. Anything else?振兴北部农业：黏土带开发与气候变化机遇
除了对农地外国所有权的限制，安大略省政府还计划通过“黏土带”（Clay Belt）项目，推动本省北部的农业发展。“黏土带”是安大略省东北部及魁北克省南部横跨两省边境的一大片广阔土地，主持人指出其面积甚至超过了安大略省南部所有可耕地面积的总和。尽管黏土带的土地质量通常被认为不如南部，但由于气候变化（Climate Change: 由人类活动导致全球气候系统长期变化的现象，表现为气温升高、极端天气事件增多等）的影响，过去只能种植小麦和燕麦的地区，现在已能更高效、更有利可图地种植玉米和大豆。此外，安大略省的肉牛养殖户也长期致力于在北部发展养牛业。
政府计划就允许在“皇家土地”（Crown Land: 隶属于加拿大君主或政府的土地，通常用于公共目的或尚未开发的资源区域）上进行农业利用展开咨询，这可能包括出售皇家土地或提供长期租赁。然而，处置皇家土地并非简单的政治决策，因为它涉及到土地的不可再生性以及与原住民的协商。这个过程才刚刚开始，但其对北部地区农业潜力的重新发掘，以及如何平衡经济发展与环境、社会责任的考量，都使其成为一个引人关注的议题。主持人提到，安大略省的政策制定者们长期以来都在研究魁北克省在黏土带农业开发上的成功经验，试图理解为何仅一界之隔，两省的农业发展水平却差异巨大。主持人还透露，他本人对黏土带的关注已超过十年，这甚至是他在TVO网站上发表的第一篇文章的主题。
Original English Source
Yes. And if I'm honest, uh this is actually the the bit above of this week's agricultural news that I I personally uh find most interesting. But before I start, Steve, do you know what the clay belt of northeastern Ontario is? The clay belt of northeastern Ontario. John Michael, I've lived in this province for 64 years. I have been to every corner of this province. Uh it has been part of my job to be all over Ontario and know these things. So the answer is no. [laughter] I do not. No, I actually don't. I've never heard it before. So this is a a a vast swath of land in northeastern Ontario. The geological or geographical feature actually spans the Ontario Quebec border. Um I I believe we have a map that you're gonna uh put up here. Yes. Uh if you're uh watching on YouTube or on TV, you'll you'll see it there. Um the the size of it really needs to be emphasized here. There's also a lesser clay belt further south. U between the two of them, they actually hold more arable land than we have in southern Ontario. This is going to come off as an insult, but it's like it is generally regarded as lower quality. This is like there's a scientific classification for farmland. I'm not going to get into that, but I'm just saying like I'm not like dumping on northern Ontario. I'm just saying uh it is not the class A farmland of of southern Ontario, but it's it's a truly massive amount of farmland. And along with those uh foreign ownership changes that were announced in Bill 109, the government has announced this week that uh they are going to consult on ways to allow farming uses on crown lands in the clay belt. Uh now that might mean selling crown land, that might mean long-term leases to people who want to use it for farming. Uh but the idea is to encourage the growth of agriculture in the provinces north where thanks to climate change uh different crops are now uh easier and more profitable to grow. Uh once upon a time you could only really grow like wheat and oats in the clay belt and uh these days uh corn and soy are uh more amunable up there. Uh th this has also been uh a long-term effort by Ontario's beef farmers to get uh more uh uh cattle grown up uh in in the north. Uh that's been going on for many years. Um and I do want to say from the outset here that like disposing of crown land is not like a politically straightforward uh issue. There's always sort of questions about you know if you sell land uh you never really get that back. You also, of course, when we're talking about Northern Ontario, you certainly want to consult with um indigenous people about uh how we dispose of that crown land. So, again, the start of a process, uh but a very interesting one to me. Now, as coincidence would have it, last weekend in a place called Vineland Station, right, which is, I guess, about 40 minutes east of Hamilton on the southern side of Lake Ontario, I did an episode of TVO Today Live with about 30 plus leaders in the agriculture and agra food sector from around Ontario. And a pretty good show. It'll be on I think April 30th. It's going to be on TVO. So, those are my bonafites on agriculture. Unless you're doing some farming in Beaches, East York that I'm unaware of. uh why does this story have so much fascination for you? Uh so I love the history of uh the clay belt right you know for more than a century uh Ontario policy makers have been trying to settle farmers in the clay belt right when the first railways came into the region uh the [laughter] the railways of the day tried to uh market the the land there and they would publish these pamphlets uh in Toronto saying like move to Timonss it's not that much colder than Toronto um I think today we would call that fraud but uh you know after World War, the uh province thought uh you know, we had all these returning soldiers from from the war and uh you know uh the the cities were uh growing rapidly but were still seen as like too crowded and and and choked with people. So well we we'll just settle these returning soldiers in the north. That did not go very well. Uh it was largely considered to be a failure. Uh I think it did not even last 5 years. Um you know at the same time uh I mentioned that the clay belt spans both Ontario and Quebec. The Quebec side of the clay belt is regarded certainly by Ontario uh policy makers as as being uh much more uh settled, much more developed for agriculture, a different set of policies uh there. And and so like we've literally been told that you know Ontario policy makers are are looking at the Quebec example and and thinking like well you know what did they do differently that got such different results literally just on one side of an imaginary line between uh Ontario and Quebec. Um, and uh, you know, I will just want to add one other sort of personal note. Uh, this was literally the subject of the first thing I ever wrote for TVO's website 12 years ago. So, I I like to uh bring it up when I can because uh uh I have been watching this file uh on and off for more than a decade.高速铁路与高频铁路之辩：加拿大基础设施建设的挑战
播客的最后一个主要议题围绕高速铁路（High-Speed Rail）和高频铁路（High-Frequency Rail）在加拿大的可行性展开。一位听众对当前阿尔托（Alto）高速铁路项目表示担忧，因为它可能途经她的祖父母的农地，并且金斯顿（Kingston）地区将没有停靠站。这引发了关于两种铁路模式优劣的讨论：
- 高速铁路：通常需要新建几乎笔直的轨道，以支持250至300公里/小时的极高速度。这意味着对沿线土地的征用和破坏更大，且停靠站更少，可能导致许多社区虽然铁路穿过，却无法受益。
- 高频铁路：更多依赖现有轨道，通过增加列车班次和优化调度，提供更频繁的服务。虽然速度不如高速铁路极致，但能更好地利用现有基础设施，减少对新土地的需求，并能服务更多社区。
主持人指出，自1950年代以来，从温莎到魁北克市的加拿大人口稠密走廊上，高速或高频铁路的提案层出不穷，但由于巨大的财务挑战，从未真正实现。专家普遍认为，此类项目若要落地，必须得到政府的大力补贴。
当前卡恩（Carne）政府提出的高速铁路项目，预计五年后才能开始施工，这反映出加拿大大型土木工程项目推进缓慢的现实。尽管政府拥有特别立法权力来加速项目审批，但仍然面临诸多挑战。项目的政治走向也受到质疑，尤其是关于其路线的选择——特鲁多政府曾指定其必须经过彼得伯勒（Peterborough）并采取更偏北的路线，这使得金斯顿等城市无法受益，引发了对路线合理性和乘客最大化潜力的疑问。
反对党领袖皮埃尔·波利耶夫（Pierre Poilievre）已明确表示，如果他上台，将取消该项目，以节省900亿加元。此外，有评论员提出，与其将巨额资金投入安大略省和魁北克省的铁路，不如考虑在西部建设爱德蒙顿（Edmonton）到卡尔加里（Calgary）的高速铁路，这不仅成本可能更低，还能在一定程度上回应阿尔伯塔省的独立呼声，促进国家团结。然而，主持人也提及，阿尔伯塔省现任政府似乎对铁路项目并不特别热衷。
Original English Source
Okay, let's get off to issue three. There are some industries in Canada that are not allowed to be owned by foreigners. Legacy television stations, for example, Fox or CNN would not be allowed to buy CBC, CTV or TVO. What about farmland? Well, apparently the province thinks that also needs protection from foreign ownership and the government has moved to do just that. Details, please, JM. Right. On Wednesday, uh, Agriculture, Food, and Aggra Business Minister Trevor Jones introduced Bill 109, the Protecting Ontario's Food Independence Act. Uh the bill is going to give the government the power to regulate the ownership of farmland in Ontario. Um and it's kind of a curious case. Uh this is another one of these cases where uh as usual we received a technical briefing from uh the government and they don't actually know how serious a problem this is. uh you know we we were asking for you know like how many farms in Ontario uh are owned by non-Canadian non-residents and and they just don't know they they know the answer is greater than zero. [laughter] uh they have some data from uh collecting the land transfer tax of all things uh that tells them okay like some money is clearly changing hands in a way that is like it's showing the government that that some farmland is is owned by non-Canadians but they were very clear that they just do not have good data on this and that is part of what this legislation is intended to address. uh you know for starters it will allow the government to collect the the data that they want and this is part of a a a consultation process that will begin uh about you know what to do about this issue. You always assume that when a government introduces a bill they're trying to solve a problem. This is a bill that has been introduced and we don't really know if the issue is a problem. Right. We we just don't we don't know how many we don't know what percentage of land is foreign own. What percentage of farmland? No. And I mean this is frankly an old story. I mean, folks might remember back the, you know, I'd say the middle of the last decade, there was a a great deal of concern in Ontario about uh foreign ownership of like residential properties, right? Uh the idea being that, you know, condos were being built, but uh nobody was actually living in in them. They were just being held by foreign investors. And that was part of the uh uh motivation for introducing the non-resident speculation tax that the wind government uh introduced and the Ford government has expanded. um which uh was in part to address this part in part to like directly address this this question of you know are foreigners buying up homes that we need and presumably want to see occupied and are they just leaving them unoccupied that was one issue. Um but also you know the government just did not know what the scale of the problem was and so uh say what you will but like taxing these kinds of things is is one way to collect the information. The government is very motivated to collect that money and that's how they get information the money and the information. Is there any indication that this bill would require land owned by foreigners to be sold? Like would it force a sale of of land owned by foreigners? So the government says no. Their current thinking is basically that a in a case where farmland is owned by a non-Canadian that they the status quo would prevail. They would not send in jack booted thugs to force them to sell the land or anything like that. But when it came time for that land to be sold, in theory, uh the the law would require them to sell it only to another to a Canadian. Uh they would not be allowed to sell it to another uh non-Canadian or non-resident. Um I I'm speaking in generalities here because and and the government is is saying, you know, they they don't have a a clear regulatory framework in mind just yet. This is all part of a process that they are going to start. Um and and introducing this legislation is the beginning of that process. Anything else? Yes. And if I'm honest, uh this is actually the the bit above of this week's agricultural news that I I personally uh find most interesting. But before I start, Steve, do you know what the clay belt of northeastern Ontario is? The clay belt of northeastern Ontario. John Michael, I've lived in this province for 64 years. I have been to every corner of this province. Uh it has been part of my job to be all over Ontario and know these things. So the answer is no. [laughter] I do not. No, I actually don't. I've never heard it before. So this is a a a vast swath of land in northeastern Ontario. The geological or geographical feature actually spans the Ontario Quebec border. Um I I believe we have a map that you're gonna uh put up here. Yes. Uh if you're uh watching on YouTube or on TV, you'll you'll see it there. Um the the size of it really needs to be emphasized here. There's also a lesser clay belt further south. U between the two of them, they actually hold more arable land than we have in southern Ontario. This is going to come off as an insult, but it's like it is generally regarded as lower quality. This is like there's a scientific classification for farmland. I'm not going to get into that, but I'm just saying like I'm not like dumping on northern Ontario. I'm just saying uh it is not the class A farmland of of southern Ontario, but it's it's a truly massive amount of farmland. And along with those uh foreign ownership changes that were announced in Bill 109, the government has announced this week that uh they are going to consult on ways to allow farming uses on crown lands in the clay belt. Uh now that might mean selling crown land, that might mean long-term leases to people who want to use it for farming. Uh but the idea is to encourage the growth of agriculture in the provinces north where thanks to climate change uh different crops are now uh easier and more profitable to grow. Uh once upon a time you could only really grow like wheat and oats in the clay belt and uh these days uh corn and soy are uh more amunable up there. Uh th this has also been uh a long-term effort by Ontario's beef farmers to get uh more uh uh cattle grown up uh in in the north. Uh that's been going on for many years. Um and I do want to say from the outset here that like disposing of crown land is not like a politically straightforward uh issue. There's always sort of questions about you know if you sell land uh you never really get that back. You also, of course, when we're talking about Northern Ontario, you certainly want to consult with um indigenous people about uh how we dispose of that crown land. So, again, the start of a process, uh but a very interesting one to me. Now, as coincidence would have it, last weekend in a place called Vineland Station, right, which is, I guess, about 40 minutes east of Hamilton on the southern side of Lake Ontario, I did an episode of TVO Today Live with about 30 plus leaders in the agriculture and agra food sector from around Ontario. And a pretty good show. It'll be on I think April 30th. It's going to be on TVO. So, those are my bonafites on agriculture. Unless you're doing some farming in Beaches, East York that I'm unaware of. uh why does this story have so much fascination for you? Uh so I love the history of uh the clay belt right you know for more than a century uh Ontario policy makers have been trying to settle farmers in the clay belt right when the first railways came into the region uh the [laughter] the railways of the day tried to uh market the the land there and they would publish these pamphlets uh in Toronto saying like move to Timonss it's not that much colder than Toronto um I think today we would call that fraud but uh you know after World War, the uh province thought uh you know, we had all these returning soldiers from from the war and uh you know uh the the cities were uh growing rapidly but were still seen as like too crowded and and and choked with people. So well we we'll just settle these returning soldiers in the north. That did not go very well. Uh it was largely considered to be a failure. Uh I think it did not even last 5 years. Um you know at the same time uh I mentioned that the clay belt spans both Ontario and Quebec. The Quebec side of the clay belt is regarded certainly by Ontario uh policy makers as as being uh much more uh settled, much more developed for agriculture, a different set of policies uh there. And and so like we've literally been told that you know Ontario policy makers are are looking at the Quebec example and and thinking like well you know what did they do differently that got such different results literally just on one side of an imaginary line between uh Ontario and Quebec. Um, and uh, you know, I will just want to add one other sort of personal note. Uh, this was literally the subject of the first thing I ever wrote for TVO's website 12 years ago. So, I I like to uh bring it up when I can because uh uh I have been watching this file uh on and off for more than a decade.高速铁路与高频铁路之辩：加拿大基础设施建设的挑战
播客的最后一个主要议题围绕高速铁路（High-Speed Rail）和高频铁路（High-Frequency Rail）在加拿大的可行性展开。一位听众对当前阿尔托（Alto）高速铁路项目表示担忧，因为它可能途经她的祖父母的农地，并且金斯顿（Kingston）地区将没有停靠站。这引发了关于两种铁路模式优劣的讨论：
- 高速铁路：通常需要新建几乎笔直的轨道，以支持250至300公里/小时的极高速度。这意味着对沿线土地的征用和破坏更大，且停靠站更少，可能导致许多社区虽然铁路穿过，却无法受益。
- 高频铁路：更多依赖现有轨道，通过增加列车班次和优化调度，提供更频繁的服务。虽然速度不如高速铁路极致，但能更好地利用现有基础设施，减少对新土地的需求，并能服务更多社区。
主持人指出，自1950年代以来，从温莎到魁北克市的加拿大人口稠密走廊上，高速或高频铁路的提案层出不穷，但由于巨大的财务挑战，从未真正实现。专家普遍认为，此类项目若要落地，必须得到政府的大力补贴。
当前卡恩（Carne）政府提出的高速铁路项目，预计五年后才能开始施工，这反映出加拿大大型土木工程项目推进缓慢的现实。尽管政府拥有特别立法权力来加速项目审批，但仍然面临诸多挑战。项目的政治走向也受到质疑，尤其是关于其路线的选择——特鲁多政府曾指定其必须经过彼得伯勒（Peterborough）并采取更偏北的路线，这使得金斯顿等城市无法受益，引发了对路线合理性和乘客最大化潜力的疑问。
反对党领袖皮埃尔·波利耶夫（Pierre Poilievre）已明确表示，如果他上台，将取消该项目，以节省900亿加元。此外，有评论员提出，与其将巨额资金投入安大略省和魁北克省的铁路，不如考虑在西部建设爱德蒙顿（Edmonton）到卡尔加里（Calgary）的高速铁路，这不仅成本可能更低，还能在一定程度上回应阿尔伯塔省的独立呼声，促进国家团结。然而，主持人也提及，阿尔伯塔省现任政府似乎对铁路项目并不特别热衷。