老兵重返平民生活的挑战与政府新举措
>>: 每年的11月11日，加拿大人都会向那些为保卫我们国家而服役和牺牲的人们致敬。但是，当仪式结束之后会发生什么呢？对于那些服过役的人来说，生活又是怎样的？对一些退伍军人而言，向平民生活的过渡可能充满困难。这就是为什么在国殇纪念日（Remembrance Day）临近之际，我们看到了来自不同级别政府的几项公告。例如，加拿大退伍军人事务部（Veterans Affairs Canada）正在启动一项表彰雇用老兵的雇主的计划。安大略省政府正投资数百万加元，帮助老兵等人群培养专业技能。那么，政府的这些举措究竟能带来多大改变呢？我采访了退伍军人事务部部长吉尔·麦克奈特（Jill McKnight）以及其他人，探讨了渥太华正在采取的措施以及还需要做些什么。当然，就业只是生活的一个方面。另一个重大问题是心理健康：研究表明，正在服役或曾经服过役的人群中心理障碍的负担很重。那么，目前有哪些支持机制，它们是否足够？我是杰扬·杰加纳森（Jeyan Jeganathan），欢迎收看《The Rundown》。
联邦政府在宣布其新计划的同时，还发布了一份关于圆桌会议的报告。引用报告中的话说，这是为了“更好地了解老兵在当今劳动力市场中所面临的机遇和障碍”。那么，他们了解到了什么，又正在采取哪些行动呢？吉尔·麦克奈特部长，很高兴你能来到《The Rundown》。你的部门刚刚启动了“老兵雇主认可计划”（Veteran Employer Recognition Initiative）。你能为我们简单介绍一下吗？
英文原文
**>>**: Every November 11th, Canadians honour those who served and sacrificed in defence of our country. But what happens when the ceremonies are over? And what does life look like for the people who served? For some veterans, the transition to civilian life can be difficult. That's why, in the lead up to Remembrance Day, we saw a few announcements from different levels of government. For example, Veterans Affairs Canada is launching an initiative to recognize employers who hire veterans. The Ontario government is investing millions in helping veterans and others develop specialized skills. So how much of a difference can government initiatives make? I talked to a Minister of Veterans Affairs, Jill McKnight, and others about the steps Ottawa is taking and what else needs to be done. And of course, employment is only one aspect of life. Another major issue. Mental health studies have shown a high burden of mental disorders in those who serve or have served. So what's in place to support them, and is it enough? I'm Jeyan Jeganathan. Welcome to The Rundown.So when the federal government announced its new initiative, it also released a report on round tables. It did, to, quote, better understand the opportunities and barriers veterans face in today's labour market. So what did they learn and what actions are they taking? Minister Jill McKnight, great to have you on The Rundown, your ministry just launched the veteran employer Recognition Initiative. Can you tell us a little bit about it?
>>: 当然可以。非常感谢。如今从加拿大武装部队（Canadian Armed Forces）退役的老兵拥有极为丰富的技能、特质与才能。我们正与老兵群体共同努力，帮助他们找到契合自身当前需求、愿望和兴趣的工作岗位。作为其中的一部分，这也意味着寻找那些支持老兵群体并致力于帮助他们在工作中取得成功的雇主。因此，这项举措旨在与雇主合作，打造最能满足老兵群体需求的工作场所和空间，支持他们的职业目标和成长，并通过对采取这些举措的雇主给予认可来实现这一点。
英文原文
**>>**: Certainly. Thank you so much. Veterans today are releasing from the Canadian Armed Forces with a tremendous variety of skills, attributes and talents. And we are working together with the veteran community to support them in connecting with employment that meets their needs, their desires, their interests for where they are today. And as part of that, that is finding employers that are supportive of the veteran community and committed to helping them succeed in their employment. So this initiative is about working with employers to create workplaces and spaces that best meet the needs of the veteran community, and to support them in their career goals, growth, and in doing so by recognizing employers that are undertaking those steps.>>: 我了解到这项举措源于今年夏天举行的圆桌会议。请帮助我了解一下当时进行了怎样的讨论，有哪些人参与其中？
英文原文
**>>**: I understand that this initiative came about through roundtables that happened in the summer. Help me understand sort of the conversations that were happening, who was at the table?>>: 好的。2024年开展了“国家老兵就业战略”（National Veterans Employment Strategy），其中一项内容就是老兵雇主认可计划。因此，今年夏天，我们与产业界、老兵、教育工作者以及具有亲身经历的人员举行了九场以上的圆桌会议，讨论雇主可以采取哪些措施来更好地支持老兵群体，在理解老兵带入劳动大军的技能和才能方面存在哪些差距，以及我们如何在这两者之间建立契合点，以支持老兵实现他们的就业目标。
英文原文
**>>**: Certainly. So in 2024, the National Veterans Employment Strategy was undertaken, and one of the components of that was a veteran employer recognition. So this summer, we conducted more than nine roundtables with industry, with veterans, with educators, with those with the lived experience to talk about what we could do at employers to best support the veteran community where the gaps were in terms of understanding the skills and talents that veterans were bringing to the workforce, and how we could bring alignment between those two to support veterans in their employment goals.>>: 这项举措如何激励企业雇用老兵？
英文原文
**>>**: How does this initiative incentivize companies to hire veterans?>>: 我认为其核心重点在于回归老兵如何满足当前产业界紧迫需求这一点。围绕服役经历的很多讨论往往只局限于传统角色，比如在空军开飞机，或者在步兵部队驾驶坦克或装甲车。然而老兵拥有的技能和才能范围要宽广得多。我们有掌握多项“红印”（Red Seal）技工认证的老兵；我们也有具备会计、金融、供应链、物流等专业技能的老兵。其技能范围非常广泛，以至于没有两个老兵是完全一样的，没有两个人带着完全相同的技能组合从加拿大武装部队退役。而这项举措就是要在产业界的需求与正在寻找就业机会并希望施展这些技能的老兵之间搭建桥梁。
英文原文
**>>**: I think the focus is very much about coming back to how veterans are able to meet the in demand needs for industry right now. Many conversations around service can look like traditional roles of, you know, being in the Air Force and flying a plane or being in the infantry and driving a tank or a lab. The variety of skills and talents that veterans have is so much broader than that. We have veterans with a number of Red seal trades. We have veterans that have professional skills such as accounting, finance, supply chain, logistics. There is a wide variety of skills, so such as no two veterans are the same. No two are the skill sets that they will release from the Canadian Armed Forces with. And this is about making the connections between the needs of industry and the veterans who are looking to have employment and to connect those skills.CRA 采购争议与老兵优先受聘权
>>: 谈到就业方面的关切：最近，加拿大税务局（CRA）将一份价值1200万加元的安保合同授予了一家美国公司的子公司，而没有给予 Commissionaires——一家旨在为加拿大老兵提供就业机会的非营利机构。部长，我知道你不分管 CRA，但终止给予 Commissionaires “优先受聘权”（right of first refusal）的指令来自你们这里。因此我必须问，面对那些认为你们政府的言论与实际行动之间存在差距的批评声音，你会作何回应？
英文原文
**>>**: Now, on the concern of employment. Recently, the Canada Revenue Agency CRA awarded a $12 million security contract to a subsidiary of an American company over the Commissionaires, a not for profit company which was founded to provide employment to Canadian veterans. Now, Minister, I appreciate you don't oversee the CRA, but the directive to end the right of first refusal for the Commissionaires came from you. And so I have to ask, how would you respond to critics who say there is a gap between your government's rhetoric and the actions?>>: 我们知道就业机会涉及广泛的角色，其中可能包括警卫服务；因此，Commissionaires 将继续能够参与竞标过程以争取合同，并继续提供服务，老兵可以担任这些职务。同时老兵对于未来的职业生涯也有多种不同的选择可以参与。
英文原文
**>>**: We know that employment opportunities will be across a broad spectrum of roles that may include guard services, and as such, the Commissionaires will continue to be able to participate in the bid process to be awarded contracts and to continue to deliver services for which veterans may fulfill those roles. And veterans have a variety of different options that they can participate for their future careers.>>: 部长，许多老兵关心的另一个领域是缺乏对他们可用的充分心理健康支持。这是你的部门目前正在优先考虑的领域吗？
英文原文
**>>**: Minister, another area of concern for many veterans is the lack of adequate mental health supports available to them. Is this an area that your ministry is prioritizing right now?>>: 我们继续为老兵提供符合资格的各种健康和福利支持，这其中包括心理健康支持。正因如此，加拿大退伍军人事务部已经做到：任何寻求援助的老兵都可以立即获得为期两年的心理健康支持。这并不是那种需要等待文书审批完成的情况；我们正在努力确保老兵所需的支持可以立即提供，以便我们能够支持他们，而在他们获得所需支持的同时，我们会去处理完文书工作。
英文原文
**>>**: We continue to support veterans with a variety of the health and benefits for which they are eligible. That includes mental health supports. As such, Veterans Affairs Canada has made it that there is an immediate access to two years of mental health support for any veteran who's reaching out for assistance. While it's not a case of waiting for paperwork to be completed, we are working to ensure that the supports a veteran needs are available immediately so that we can support them and we'll get the paperwork sorted out while while they're receiving the support they need.>>: 部长，今天是国殇纪念日。所以我想问，今天有哪些事是你在反思的？
英文原文
**>>**: Minister, it's Remembrance Day. So I have to ask, what's one thing that you are reflecting on today?>>: 回想过去一年半担任这个职务的经历，我有机会与全国各地不同年龄段的老兵进行交流，从西海岸到东海岸，未来还会去到第三个海岸（北极沿岸）。我看到的一件事是：没有两个老兵是一模一样的。没有两个老兵的经历是相同的，同样，与老兵的交谈也没有两次是相同的。在国殇纪念日，今天我将反思我所听到的关于老兵的故事和经历，以及所有加拿大人所肩负的责任——将这段历史传承下去，带动青年人，并找到积极参与铭记与纪念的方式。
英文原文
**>>**: As, as I think about this past year and a half in this particular role, I've had the opportunity to engage with veterans of a variety of ages across the country, from coast to coast, with with the third Coast coming in the future. And one thing that I have seen is that no two veterans are the same. No. Two veterans experiences are the same, and as such, no. Two conversations with the veterans are the same as on Remembrance Day. Today, I'm going to be reflecting on the stories and the experiences I've heard about the veterans, and on the responsibility that all Canadians have to carry this story forward to engage the youth and to find ways to actively participate in remembrance and commemoration.>>: 部长，加拿大人在国殇纪念日可以做些什么？
英文原文
**>>**: Minister, what is something Canadians can do on Remembrance Day?>>: 你知道吗？我非常感谢这个问题，因为“积极铭记”是所有加拿大人，无论老少，都可以参与的事情，而且可以从三个简单的步骤开始：第一是佩戴虞美人花；第二是参加所在社区的国殇纪念日仪式；第三是花一点时间，向老兵、现役军人或军人家庭表达对他们服役与奉献的感谢。
英文原文
**>>**: You know what? I really appreciate that question because active remembrance is something that all Canadians, young and old, can participate in, and it can start with three simple steps. One is to wear a poppy. The second is to attend a Remembrance Day ceremony in your community. And thirdly, it's to take a moment and thank a veteran, a serving member or a military family for their service.>>: 部长，非常感谢你抽出时间在《The Rundown》上与我们交谈。
英文原文
**>>**: Minister, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us on "The Rundown".>>: 也感谢你的时间。
英文原文
**>>**: Thank you for your time as well.Commissionaires 专访：政府采购与老兵就业优先权取消的冲击
>>: 加拿大税务局最近将一份价值1200万加元的安保合同授予了一家美国公司的子公司，而不是此前持有该合同、肩负雇用老兵使命的非营利组织 Commissionaires，从而引发了争议。那么，这是否说明了加拿大在支持老兵就业方面的投入程度？杰夫·汉密尔顿（Geoff Hamilton），很高兴能邀请你来到《The Rundown》。你最近怎么样？
英文原文
**>>**: The Canada Revenue Agency recently caused controversy by awarding a $12 million security contract to the subsidiary of an American company, instead of to the Commissionaires, a not for profit Organization with a mandate to hire veterans who previously held the contract. So does this say anything about Canada's commitment to veteran employment? Geoff Hamilton, great to have you on "The Rundown". How are you doing?>>: 我很好。你怎么样？
英文原文
**>>**: I'm doing great. How are you?>>: 我也很好。你是 Commissionaires Great Lakes 的首席执行官，该机构拥有非常独特的社会使命。请帮助我们了解一下。
英文原文
**>>**: I'm doing great. You are the CEO of Commissionaires Great Lakes, and they have a pretty unique social mission. Help us understand a little bit.>>: 好的。Commissionaires，正式名称为加拿大特派警卫团（Canadian Corps of Commissionaires），成立于101年前，我们是一家雇用退伍军人的安保公司。也就是说，我们的社会使命就是通过提供就业来支持老兵。
英文原文
**>>**: About it. Yeah. Commissionaires the Canadian Corps of Commissionaires formally was founded 101 years ago, and we are a security company that employs veterans. That is, our social mandate is to support veterans through employment.>>: 当我们谈论安保时，就实际工作而言，我们谈论的是什么？
英文原文
**>>**: When we talk about security, what are we talking about in terms of actual jobs here?>>: 嗯，我们涵盖了全方位的业务。从安全保卫一直到安防技术整合。但我们最出名的，是向各类机构、政府机构和军事基地等场所提供保安人员。
英文原文
**>>**: Well, we do sort of the whole gamut. So everything from security guarding up to sort of security, technology integration. But we're best known as a provider of security guards to institutional contexts, governments and military bases, that sort of thing.>>: 我想谈谈一个频繁登上头条的新闻，那就是关于 CRA 合同的事。CRA 决定将一份价值1200万加元的合同授予一家美国公司的子公司，而不是此前持有该合同的你们公司 Commissionaires。我们询问了 CRA 的回应，他们的声明是这样写的：
“相关合同是在竞争性采购流程后授予了一家合格的加拿大子公司。该加拿大供应商在全国拥有超过10,000名员工和19个分支机构，拥有一支庞大的加拿大本土劳动力队伍，总部位于密西沙加。2026年6月，CRA 实施了一项新政策，以确保加拿大供应商在 CRA 采购流程中获得优先考虑。尽管该政策在本次采购之后生效，但本次合同决定符合该政策的精神。”
声明还强调，在评估潜在承包商时，他们会考虑包括过往表现（past performance）在内的多项标准；并且强调这些决定是由独立机构作出的，没有受到政治干预。
那么，杰夫，请帮我理解一下，你对这份声明有什么回应？
英文原文
**>>**: I want to talk about a story that has been in the headlines a lot. It's about a CRA contract. Now, CRA decided to grant a $12 million contract to a subsidiary of an American company instead of to your company, the Commissionaires, who previously held that contract. Now, we did ask the CRA about their response, and this is what it reads.The contract in question was awarded to a qualified Canadian subsidiary following a competitive procurement process. The Canadian supplier maintains a significant Canadian workforce spanning more than 10,000 employees and 19 locations across the country, and is headquartered in Mississauga. In June 2026, the CRA implemented a new policy to ensure that Canadian suppliers are receiving priority in CRA procurement processes. Although this policy came into force after the procurement, this contract decision would be in compliance with this policy.
Now, the statement also emphasized that when considering potential contractors, they look at various criteria, including past performance. They also emphasized that these decisions are made independently without political interference.
So Geoff, help me understand here. What's your response to this statement?
>>: 听着，我无法反驳这些内容。公共部门对安保服务的采购基本就是这个样子。他们通常选择最便宜的供应商。他们通常会评估技术标准，但很难客观评估两个不同安保提供商之间的质量差异。因此，通常那些技术标准都非常表面化。每个人都能拿到100%或接近100%的分数。最终的决定实际上纯粹取决于价格。
而我们对这份合同感到有问题，原因有两点。第一是“购买加拿大货”（Buy Canada）政策，理论上合同应该至少在某种优先基础上授予加拿大公司。在这个案例中，我们的价格只比另一家贵了0.8%。而 Allied Universal 是一家全美资公司，尽管根据政策，在他们成立了拥有加拿大总部的加拿大子公司这个层面上，技术上算作加拿大公司，但它完全归美国所有。
英文原文
**>>**: Well, look, I can't disagree with any of that. That is sort of what the public sector procurement of security services looks like. They go typically with the cheapest vendor. There's usually technical criteria that they will assess, but it's difficult to objectively assess the qualitative difference between two different security providers. So generally those technical criteria are very superficial. Everyone gets 100% or close to 100% of them. And the decision is really done on price. And, you know, we got a problem with this contract for a couple of reasons. The first one is that Buy Canada policy that, you know, in theory, contracts should be awarded to Canadian companies, at least on some sort of a preferential basis. In this case, we were 0.8% more expensive than the alternative. And a, an entirely Canadian owned company and based company, Allied Universal is, I guess, under the policy, technically Canadian, to the extent that they have formed a Canadian subsidiary company that has a headquarters in Canada, but it is wholly American owned.>>: 而且它确实雇用了10,000名加拿大员工。
英文原文
**>>**: And it does hire 10,000 Canadian employees.>>: 当然，它是一家保安公司，他们不可能从美国进口人员到加拿大来做这项工作。但是公司的核心思想和管理层完全位于其总部所在地费城。
英文原文
**>>**: Well, sure, it's a security guard company. They're not going to be importing Americans to do that work in Canada. But the mind and management of the company is very much in in Philadelphia, where it's based.>>: 按照你的分析，你认为为什么 Commissionaires 没有拿到这份合同？
英文原文
**>>**: In your theory, why do you think the commissioners didn't get the contract?>>: 因为我们贵了0.8%。
英文原文
**>>**: Because we were 0.8 percent more expensive.>>: 也就是8万加元。
英文原文
**>>**: 80,000.>>: 在超过1200万的合同里相差8万加元。是的。
英文原文
**>>**: 80,000, over 12 million. Yeah.>>: 仅此而已。
英文原文
**>>**: And that was it.>>: 据我们了解到的技术评分情况，我想我们在技术评分和财务评分的总分中大概得了97.5%左右。真正造成差距的唯一因素就是财务部分。
英文原文
**>>**: As far as we understand the technical scoring we were given. You know, I think we scored something like 97.5% in the aggregate of the technical and the financial scoring. The only thing that really would have made the difference would have been the financial component.>>: 我想你们对 CRA 的这个决定肯定很失望。但你们与该部门有过任何对话吗？
英文原文
**>>**: I have to imagine disappointed with the decision. You know, from the CRA. But have you had any conversations with the ministry?>>: 听着，我们理解。这是一场充分竞争的竞标，有时候你会赢，有时候你会输。在公共部门的采购中，正如我所说，往往事实就是完全由价格驱动。
对我们来说，真正的担忧在于加拿大特派警卫团依据所谓的“优先受聘权”（right of first refusal）与联邦政府开展的工作。依照自1945年以来的安排，我们在优先基础上雇用了10,000名加拿大人，为联邦政府的特定组成部分——也就是核心联邦部门提供安保。这是一份庞大的合同，雇用了大量退伍军人。我们之所以获得这项工作，是因为我们具备安置大量老兵就业的能力。我们是加拿大最大的老兵雇主。
然而我们被告知，截至3月31日，这一机制将被取消，我们必须去竞争所有这些工作。因此对我们而言，CRA 的决定实际上预示了未来的走向。我想政府可能说服了自己：因为我们是非营利组织，或许无论如何我们都能赢得这些竞争。事实并非如此，因为在安保合同的定价中，最大的组成部分永远是保安的工资。如果你试图提供有意义的就业机会，给予有尊严、非剥削性的工资，你就需要支付更高的报酬。而我们正是因为这个原因而成本更高。因此，如果你不将老兵就业或任何社会使命因素纳入考量比重，或者不认真考虑加拿大本土公司与外国公司相比的技术优势，你最终总是会把所有工作都授予那些支付最低工资或略高于最低工资的营利性公司。
英文原文
**>>**: Look, I mean, we get it. This was a competed competition and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. And in the public sector, in procurement, as I say, it's often usually, as a matter of fact, only price driven. For us, the real concern relates to the work the Canadian Corps of Commissionaires does with the federal government under what's called the right of first refusal, and under that arrangement, the work that we've done since 1945, we employ 10,000 Canadians on a preferential basis, providing security to a certain a certain component of the federal government. So core federal departments. And it's a large it's a large contract that employs a lot of veterans. And we were given that work on the basis of our our ability to employ a lot of veterans. We are the largest veteran employer in Canada, and they. We've been told that as of the 31st of March, that's going away and that we're going to have to compete for all that work. So for us, the CRA decision is really a picture of what the future is going to look like. I think the government might have convinced themselves that, you know, because we're a non-profit, perhaps we would win these competitions anyway. That's not the case because we the biggest component in pricing in a security contract is always the guard's wage. And if you're trying to provide meaningful employment with meaningful wages that are non-exploitative, you're going to pay better. And we're we're going to be more expensive for that reason. So if you're not waiting things like veteran employment or any of the sort of social mandate stuff, or seriously considering the technical merits of a Canadian company versus a foreign company, you're going to end up always awarding all of that work to for profit companies that that are paying minimum wage or slightly above it.>>: 我需要澄清说明一下，指的是2027年3月31日。
英文原文
**>>**: I should mention, just to clarify, March 31st, 2027.>>: 没错，即将到来的那个3月31日。
英文原文
**>>**: That's right. The coming March 31st.>>: 好的。让我们谈谈不同级别政府在老兵支持方面的实际举措。退伍军人事务部最近发布了“老兵雇主认可计划”，以激励加拿大公司雇用更多老兵，这是朝正确方向迈出的一步吗？
英文原文
**>>**: There we go. Let's talk a little bit about what different level of governments are actually doing in terms of veteran support. The Ministry of Veteran Affairs recently released the veteran Employer Recognition initiative to incentivize Canadian companies to hire more veterans, step in the right direction?>>: 听着，任何能改善老兵就业或激励人们雇用老兵的举措都是积极的一小步。这是该部门“国家老兵就业战略”的一部分，但在我们看来相当流于表面。他们实际上把“认可”置于“问责”之前了。这个框架允许雇主表态说：“嘿，我们对雇用老兵很感兴趣，我们想成为对老兵友好的雇主。”如果他们照做了，在所有检查项打勾，并在网站上贴上某种徽章，这略显表面化。坦率地说，这种做法可以在公众普遍支持老兵就业和关爱老兵时起到强化、支持或借力的作用；但在缺乏这种支持的情况下——而且在加拿大这种社会情绪随着时间起伏变化——它本身并不能真正发挥多大作用。
该战略提到了合作伙伴关系，并着重强调了退伍军人事务部与“True Patriot Love”的合作，那是一个极好的组织；还有“Team Rubicon”，都是非常出色的组织，我们在财务上也予以资助，因为我们认为他们在老兵从军队过渡到私营部门方面从事着重要工作。但它们主要不是老兵雇主。而我们是联邦政府建立了80年的老兵就业合作伙伴关系，光是通过与联邦政府的优先受聘权项目就雇用了2000名老兵。他们正在丢弃这种合作伙伴关系，而且并没有真正拿任何东西来替代它。这确实是个大问题。
最后我想说，国家老兵就业战略这个计划，其重点实际上放在老兵退役那一刻的支持上，这历来都是一个缺口，确实需要改进。但是在加拿大目前的46.1万名老兵中，绝大多数是在5年、10年、15年甚至30年前退役的。他们也需要支持。这正是优先受聘权项目一直在做的事情，而目前没有任何东西可以替代它。
英文原文
**>>**: Look, anything that that improves the employment of veterans or motivates people to employ veterans is a positive, small step. This is part of the National Veteran Employment Strategy of the ministry, which in our view is pretty superficial. And, you know, really they've put recognition before accountability. So there's this framework for employers to say, hey, we're interested in employing veterans. We want to be a positive employer of veterans. And, you know, if they do that and they tick all the boxes and they get a badge of some kind that they can put on their website, it's a little superficial. And frankly, it's the kind of thing that can reinforce or support or be benefited by general public support for employing and supporting veterans. But in the absence of that, and this is a sentiment that comes and goes, ebbs and flows in Canada over time, it's not really going to do anything on its own. The strategy talks about partnerships, and it highlights the partnerships that Veterans Affairs has with True Patriot Love, which is a wonderful Organization. Team Rubicon, great organizations that we support financially because we think they're doing important work in veteran transition from from military service to the private sector. But what they are not is primarily veteran employers. We are a veteran employment partnership that the federal government has had for 80 years. That employs 2000 veterans. Through that right of first refusal program with the federal government alone, they're throwing that partnership away, and they're not really replacing it with anything. And, you know, that's a that's a real problem. And finally, I would say that program, the National Veteran Employment Strategy, is really focused on supporting veterans at the point of their release from the military, which has always been a gap. And this is something that does need to be improved on. But of the 461,000 veterans in Canada now, the vast majority of those released five, ten, 15 or 30 years ago. They need support too. And that's what that right of first refusal program has always done, and there's no replacement for it.>>: 那么我们来谈谈安大略省政府。他们宣布了一项投资710万加元的计划，用于支持老兵、军人及一线应急响应人员。具体有两个专项计划：一个是针对老兵的代码编程培训，另一个是安保人员培训。这算是不错的激励措施。
英文原文
**>>**: Well, let's talk the Ontario government. They announced a plan to invest $7.1 million to support veterans, military personnel and first responders. Two specific programs, really one about coding for veterans and another about security guard training. Yeah, great. Great incentives.>>: 这些是非常棒的激励措施和举措。我们与该厅就此开展了合作，我们也参与了后一个项目。在这件事上，省政府算是在付诸实际行动。坦白讲，他们本没有义务这样做。老兵就业和老兵支持原本属于联邦政府的责任。省政府在某些方面比联邦政府做得更多，至少在具体落实方面是这样。
英文原文
**>>**: They're great incentives, great initiatives. We worked with the ministry on that, and we're part of that latter program. Look, the the provincial government is kind of putting their money where their mouth is on this one. And frankly, their mouth doesn't need to be here. Veteran employment and veteran support. It's a federal responsibility. The provincial government in some respects, is doing more than the federal government, at least in terms of concrete terms.老兵及其家庭面临的独特就业与生活困境
>>: 当我们谈论老兵面临的独特挑战时，安省的新闻通稿中不仅强调了老兵自身，还提及了家庭以及他们面临的特殊挑战。你能为我们介绍一下老兵在获得就业方面面临的挑战吗？
英文原文
**>>**: When we talk about sort of the unique challenges that veterans face, it's not just the veterans themselves highlight in Ontario's press releases is also about families and sort of the unique challenges there. Can you give us a little understanding about sort of the challenges that veterans have getting employment?>>: 好的，涵盖老兵及其家庭。家庭部分也是我们工作的重要组成部分，我们并不只雇用老兵，还拥有一支庞大的非老兵员工队伍。这些人通常是老兵的家属，尤其是现役军人的家属——由于被频繁派驻到不同地点，他们在寻找工作方面面临困难，还有一线应急响应人员也是如此。家庭成员这一块非常重要，因为作为配偶或军人子女，他们往往在军人的整个职业生涯中随军搬迁；军人在哪里退役，往往就是他们最后被派驻的地方。他们在当地不一定有根基。正如任何曾试图从高中或大学毕业生转变为拥有全职工作的人所知，你需要依靠人际网络来实现就业。而这些随军家属往往没有当地土生土长的人所拥有的那种人际网络。
英文原文
**>>**: Yeah. Well, veterans and their families as well. I mean, look, the family component is a big part of our work as well. So we don't employ only veterans. We have a large workforce of non-veterans. And those are typically veteran family members of veterans or family members of serving members in particular, who are posted from location to location and have trouble finding employment and first responders as well. But the the family member component is, is important because they've been trailing along typically as a spouse or a child of a family or of, of a serving member through their career, wherever they retire is sort of where they, they end up sort of being last posted. They don't necessarily have roots there. And as anyone who's tried to get a job tried to sort of go from being a high school or university student into a gainfully employed person, you're relying on a network to get there. And those family members often don't have the network that folks who grew up in that community did.>>: 很明显，你对联邦政府目前未能充分支持老兵持批评态度。你能提出一两点关于他们如何能做得更好的建议吗？
英文原文
**>>**: It's clear that you're critical of the federal government in terms of their inability right now to support veterans. Can you give us a couple of recommendations on how they can better do that?>>: 听着，他们并不是没有能力支持老兵。我认为他们能做的最简单的事，就是延长优先受聘权项目，或者至少对其进行严肃的审查。目前作出的决定似乎非常仓促，而且缺乏应有的充分协商。他们并没有真正与我们沟通，也没有与我们进行有实质意义的互动。我们在过去近十年里一直试图引起他们对该事项的重视。因为实际上，我们是在替他们执行一项老兵就业计划，而他们掌握着控制这一机制的杠杆。如果他们认为该计划不够成功，我们觉得原本应该或可以采取措施来改进它。我认为延长优先受聘权项目，以确保目前通过该项目就业的2000名老兵的工作岗位，将是朝正确方向迈出的一步。
英文原文
**>>**: Hey, look, they're not unable to support veterans. I think the easiest thing they could do is to extend the right of first refusal program, or at least conduct a serious review of it. The decision that was made seems to have been made very quickly and without due consultation. They didn't really talk to us or engage with us meaningfully. We've been trying to get their attention on this file for the better part of ten years, because they're in effect. We were delivering a veteran employment program for them, but they controlled the levers of it. And if it wasn't succeeding in their view, then there were things that we feel should have been done or could have been done to improve it. And I think extending the right of first refusal program to to secure the employment for the 2000 veterans currently employed through it would be a step in the right direction.>>: 杰夫，你在国殇纪念日服役多年并曾担任海军军官。关于这个日子，你希望加拿大人反思什么？
英文原文
**>>**: Geoff, you were a naval officer for for many years on Remembrance Day. What's one thing you would like Canadians to reflect on?>>: 听着，反思奉献，反思许多人的牺牲。我认为如今国殇纪念日所传递的讯息是否能像过去那样被充分理解值得深思。人们看到士兵，看到军人们在行进，会觉得这是一种阅兵日，或者是对军事装备或战争的庆祝。但事实并非如此。佩戴虞美人花是最早的丝带倡议活动，这最初是一项和平倡议。所以，请思考和平，思考牺牲的代价，思考为了我们今天享有的自由所付出的一切。
英文原文
**>>**: Look, I mean, reflect on service, reflect on sacrifice for a lot of people. I think these days where the message of Remembrance Day is and is well understood as it used to be. People see soldiers, they see people marching around and they think this is sort of a a military parade day or a celebration of military stuff or war. And it's not I mean, the wearing a poppy is the original sort of ribbon campaign. This is this is the original peace peace initiative. So think about peace. Think about the cost of sacrifice and think about think about what what's been given for the freedom we enjoy today.>>: 杰夫，非常感谢你，很感激你能抽出时间。
英文原文
**>>**: Geoff, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time.>>: 非常感谢，杰扬。
英文原文
**>>**: Thanks so much, Jeyan.心理健康与创伤后康复：Wounded Warriors Canada 的工作
>>: 显然，关注就业是合情合理的，但许多老兵还面临另一个重大问题——心理健康困境。斯科特·麦克斯韦（Scott Maxwell），很高兴你能来到《The Rundown》。你最近怎么样？
英文原文
**>>**: Look, it obviously makes sense to focus on employment, but there's another big issue facing many veterans struggles with mental health. Scott Maxwell, great to have you on The Rundown. How are you doing?>>: 很好。感谢邀请我参加节目。
英文原文
**>>**: Great. Thanks for having me on.>>: 你是加拿大受伤勇士组织（Wounded Warriors Canada）的首席执行官。请帮我们了解一下这到底是一个怎样的机构？
英文原文
**>>**: You are the CEO of Wounded Warriors Canada. Help us understand what exactly is it?>>: 好的，我们是一家全国性的心理健康服务提供机构，通过专业培训、临床训练、教育方案和心理咨询方法，来支持我们受伤、患病的老兵、一线应急响应人员及其家庭。如果你思考 Wounded Warriors Canada 在整个医疗保健连续体中的位置，我们的专长和重点是针对我们所定义和称呼的“创伤暴露专业人员”（trauma exposed professionals）及其家庭，处理创伤暴露所造成的创伤和伤害。
英文原文
**>>**: Yeah, we're a national mental health service provider that uses training, clinical training, educational approaches, counselling approaches to support our injured, ill and injured veterans, first responders and their families. If you think of Wounded Warriors Canada and where we would fit in the kind of healthcare continuum, our specialization, our focus is on traumatic trauma and trauma, exposure, injuries that occur for what we classify and call trauma exposed professionals and their families.>>: 能否帮我从服务人数的维度来理解，你们实际开展工作的对象规模有多大？
英文原文
**>>**: Or help me understand in terms of numbers of people that you're actually working with. What are we talking about?>>: 在过去的一年中，在全国范围内，无论是在复原力、康复还是教育方面，受益于或参与过 Wounded Warriors Canada 项目的创伤暴露专业人员已突破60万人次。
英文原文
**>>**: Well, this past year, we'll have exceeded over 600,000 trauma exposed professional people that one way or on the resiliency or recovery or educational side have either benefited or come through a Wounded Warriors Canada program nationally.>>: 谈谈你们机构的资金情况。你们是如何获得资金支持的？
英文原文
**>>**: Let's talk money in terms of your Organization. How are you funded?>>: 机构的发展使我们能够多元化服务获取的方式。传统上，我们在9月18日刚刚迎来了成立20周年的里程碑。
英文原文
**>>**: It's the evolution of the Organization has allowed us to kind of diversify, I guess, how people get access to our services. So it used to be traditionally we're September 18th, we just met our 20th anniversary milestone.>>: 祝贺你们。
英文原文
**>>**: Congratulations.>>: 你可以想象，20年来情况发生了巨大的发展和变化。其中之一就是我们的筹资能力——现在我们能够依靠保险公司和雇主，确保他们有更多的切身利益投入其中（skin in the game）。如果他们要接触这些人员，而这些人是属于他们的创伤暴露专业人员，那么从心理健康和安全的角度来看，他们绝对应该更多地参与到如何照顾这些人员的过程中来。因此，这使得我们机构的慈善基金会能够维持其原有的职能，起到兜底保障作用，以确保如果有人没有额外的健康福利，他们及其家庭仍能够免费获得这些服务。
英文原文
**>>**: And so you can imagine, things have really grown and changed in 20 years. One of them is, is how is the, is the, is the funding capability that we have and that we are now able to rely on insurance companies, employers, you know, just to make sure that they get more skin in the game and that they're actually, if they're going to, if they kind of have access and these are their trauma exposed professional people, they should definitely be involved more in how they're being cared for from a psychological health and safety perspective. So with that, that has allowed the charitable foundation of our Organization to maintain what it does, kind of the backstop to ensure that if someone doesn't have extended health benefits or that that they get access to these services at no cost to them and their families.>>: 请为我们详细拆解一下。关于老兵面临的一些独特心理健康挑战，你能告诉我们些什么？
英文原文
**>>**: Help us break this down a little bit. What can you tell us about some of the unique mental health challenges that veterans face?>>: “独特”（unique）这个词非常准确。这是一个非常特殊的群体。军人在参军时签下了承担无限责任（unlimited liability）的服役合约，这在世界上任何职业中都是非常罕见的。同样，我们的一线应急响应人员一年365天、一周7天都在社区一线服务，作为工作的一部分，他们持续、反复地暴露于各类创伤事件之中。因此，从心理健康的角度来看，医疗护理需要理解这一现实，并在该人员需要心理健康和安全支持时予以契合。这就是 Wounded Warriors Canada 的独特之处，我们专门为创伤暴露专业人员服务。
英文原文
**>>**: I mean, the word unique is right, is right. So, I mean, this is a unique population. The military sign up for unlimited liability for service, very unique to any profession in the world. Similarly, our first responders go out there every day serving the community seven days a week, 365 years, 65 days a year. Who are continuously exposed to traumatic events, serially exposed as part of their job. So with that, the care from a mental health perspective needs to a understand that reality and kind of meet it when that person needs access to psychological health and safety support. So that's the unique part of Wounded Warriors Canada. We exclusively serve trauma exposed professional people.>>: 你们见到的服务对象经历过一些非常可怕的事情。那么，与他们的交流通常是怎样的？
英文原文
**>>**: The folks that you see, the clients that you have, these are people who have seen some really horrible things. And so what are some of those conversations like?>>: 这是一个很好的问题。他们来找 Wounded Warriors Canada，并不是为了寻求类似于“打911”式的紧急心理健康援助。他们来找我们，是因为经历了一次或一系列无法自行消化和处理的事件。随后，他们会被感官、声音等各种因素触发，并在那些时刻像提词器一样不断重现经历。这些已经不再是普通记忆，而是在心理上对他们所见、所历、所为产生的一种提词器式的应激反应。因此，我们的角色是帮助他们完成处理和理解，从单纯了解创伤转变为掌握应对创伤的技能。
英文原文
**>>**: So it's a great question. We're not really they're not coming to us looking for like 911 mental health support to, to wounded Warriors Canada. They're coming to us. Look, they've been through an event or a set of events that they cannot process through. So subsequently they get triggered by sense, by sounds by, by, you know, various things that kind of they live through those moments like a teleprompter. These aren't memories. It's teleprompter response psychologically to what they've seen and what they've been through and what they've done. So our role is to help them process through understand, move from being trauma informed to trauma.>>: 社会普遍会认为参军、加入陆军或海军的人是我们社会中最勇敢、最坚强的人。我很想知道，相比普通公众，退役后需要帮助的老兵身上是否存在病耻感（stigma）？
英文原文
**>>**: Skilled society would say that those who sign up to join the Army, the Navy are some of the bravest and the toughest in our society. And I'm curious, is there a stigma for veterans who are coming back who, who, who need help versus members of the general public?>>: 确实存在。穿制服的服役群体更容易受到创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）等心理伤害，我们深知这一点。然而他们一直属于坚毅隐忍的职业。我认为其中一部分是一种功能性现实：从事这些工作你必须坚毅隐忍。如果你在行动门前崩溃了，或者作为应急响应人员进入现场时崩溃了，那很可能就无法完成任务。但我们正在努力解决的挑战是让他们重新将自己作为一个普通人、一个个体连接起来。这种宣导、学习和教育告诉他们：当你重新正视自己作为普通人的一面，晚上回到家，那些情绪涌上心头时，这是完全正常的；这是作为创伤暴露专业人员对所经历事件的自然生理反应。围绕这一点我们开展了大量的教育和意识普及工作。
但是，一旦你把它定位于——我们称之为“接受心理学”（psychology of uptake）——一旦以这种形式呈现给他们，就像“这是标准作业程序，你掌握这些技能来维护心理健康”，他们就会接受。从我们的使用情况来看，与20年前相比，现在向我们寻求帮助的人成群结队而来。
英文原文
**>>**: There's definitely so that the uniform service population is so much more susceptible to injuries like post-traumatic stress disorder. We understand that. And yet they've always been stoic professions. And I think there's part of that is, is a functional reality of you kind of got to be stoic to fulfill those jobs. If you fell apart at the door. And when you're going in to do something as an emergency response member, well, that's not probably going to work. But the challenge, the thing we're working on is get them to functionally kind of reconnect to themselves as a human and as an individual. So it's that education, that learning and teaching that that's okay when you, when you, when you reconnect to yourself as a human being and you go home at night, that you might have these emotions creep up on you, that's okay. That's a natural physiological response to what you did as a trauma exposed professional person. So there's been a lot of education and awareness about that. But once you position it to, we call it the psychology of uptake, okay? Once it's presented to them in a format like that, like this is standard operating procedure, that you have these skills for your mental health. The buy in is there. And as we see from our use, people are people are reaching out to us in droves by any comparison to what we certainly saw 20 years ago.>>: 我想对很多人来说这是一段漫长的历程。并不是说一旦获得了工具和方法，你就算是彻底治愈了。
英文原文
**>>**: I imagine this is a journey for a lot of people. It's not, you know, once you've gotten the tools and toolkit, you are you are healed.>>: 确实如此。这是一项需要日复一日坚持的工作。
英文原文
**>>**: Exactly. This is, you know, working on it every day in and out.>>: 在你一直从事的工作中，有没有什么成功的故事？当你回首时会觉得：“我们真的做成了一些了不起的事情。”
英文原文
**>>**: Is there a success story in the work that you've been doing? And you know that you look back, you're like, you know what? We really did something here. And I.>>: 老实说，是的。我们每天都能看到来自项目参与者的成功见证。我们经常从参与项目的一线临床医生那里听到两方面的成功反馈：一方面是参与者感到如释重负，就像肩上放下了上千磅的重担，因为他们终于获得了针对自身伤害所需的恰当护理和治疗；另一方面则是带有一点愤怒，愤怒于为什么需要花这么大的力气，竟然如此难以找到或获得他们明知自己需要的恰当护理，并且在此之前一直苦于无法获得。这些都是成功的故事。我们看到了成百上千个这样的案例，而且成功背后的模式高度一致。
英文原文
**>>**: Mean, I mean, honestly, yes, we, I, we see the testimonial success stories every day coming in from our program participants talking about, you know, there's two ways that we often hear of the success from our clinicians that are doing the work in these, in these programs. One is that the the participant feels like just relieved. And it's like £1,000 of weight off their shoulders that they got the right type of care and treatment that they need for their injury. The second side of it is that there, there is a bit of anger there that it took. It was so hard to find or access that right care that that they know they needed. And they were struggling to get access to. So it's a so these are success stories. And we see them in, you know, hundreds of them, but a very consistent pattern in what the success is.联邦支持的缺口与老兵家庭照护
>>: 联邦政府是否充分满足了老兵的需求？
英文原文
**>>**: Are the needs of veterans being adequately addressed by the federal government?>>: 我认为他们已经取得了很大进展，这是毫无疑问的。然而同样的问题依然存在。正如我刚才提到的，需要文化针对性的心理健康照护（culturally specific mental health care）——即根据这类职业和工作的独特性做出相应反应、建构和理解。你不能像对待普通人那样对待面临创伤暴露的专业人员。遗憾的是，加拿大的心理健康系统在很大程度上一直是这么处理的，所以这里存在差距。
从根本上说，家庭成员缺乏足够支持也是一个缺口。长久以来，这始终是通过患病和受伤的军人、老兵、加拿大武装部队成员这一单一视角来看待的。我理解，毕竟直接服役的是他们。然而，家庭成员是与我们的军人并肩同行的。然而他们却往往被排除在这类治疗和护理路径之外。
英文原文
**>>**: I, I think they've come they've come a long way. There's no question about it. I mean, there's still the same sorts of issues, though. And I would say what I was just referencing is like culturally specific mental health care to culturally means responding and being kind of built and understanding the uniqueness that you mentioned of these professions and the jobs you just can't treat trauma exposed professional people like you would treat anybody else. And unfortunately, the mental health system in Canada has kind of approached them that way. So there's a gap there. Families fundamentally like the lack of support for family members. It's always been seen through the lens of the ill and injured member, the veteran, the Canadian Armed Forces member. I get it. That's the one who is serving. However, the families serve right alongside our servicemen and women. So and they've often been excluded from that kind of treatment care pathway.>>: 从全局来看，联邦政府在支持老兵方面怎样才能做得更好？目前的缺口在哪里？
英文原文
**>>**: What can when when we look at the big picture here, what can the federal government do better in supporting veterans? Where's the gaps right now?>>: 确实就在这两个方面。同时，政府已经展现出承认这一现状的意愿，并乐于依靠像 Wounded Warriors Canada 这样的领域专家来帮助他们做得更好，这是个进展。
另一方面，例如联邦政府在覆盖范围上所资助的治疗模式。传统上多是一对一的个体治疗；或者如果你有物质滥用或成瘾问题，他们会资助你参加为期90天的治疗项目。但在中间地带，还有许多其他治疗模式，例如团体干预，以及我们在全国处于领先地位的动物辅助疗法（如 PTSD 军犬/服务犬服务），这些并没有获得资金资助。因此我认为，整个体系、退伍军人事务部（VAC）作为一个整体需要做的，并且我认为他们正开始着手去做的，就是探索其他治疗途径和治疗方案，从而开始为这个新时代的现代老兵群体提供协助。
英文原文
**>>**: Yeah, on those two fronts for sure. And there's an acknowledgement and openness to rely on subject matter experts like Wounded Warriors Canada to help them do this better. So that's a bit of progress. The other side of it, too, is, is, you know, there's an example of like what the federal government will fund from a treatment modality thing for coverage. Traditionally, it's been kind of 1 to 1. You're 1 to 1 therapy. Or if you need, if you have a substance or an addiction issue, then you can go and they'll fund you to go to a 90 day program. But then the middle, there's a lot of other modalities, group work, animal assisted therapy like PTSD service dogs, which we lead in the country, is not funded. Okay. So I think what the system as a whole, the VAC as a whole, Veterans Affairs Canada as a whole is trying to needs to do and I think is starting to work to do is look at other treatment pathways and treatment offerings that they can start to assist this new era, this modern era of veterans.创始初衷与纪念意义
>>: 我想向观众展示一张照片。这是达雷尔·卡斯韦尔二等兵（Private Darrell Caswell）的照片，一位与你关系非常亲近的人。你能告诉我们他是谁，以及 Wounded Warriors 是如何因他而创立的吗？
英文原文
**>>**: I want to pull up a photo for our viewers. This is a photo of Private Darrell Caswell, someone very dear and near to your heart. Can you tell us who he is and how this Wounded warriors sort of started because of it?>>: 好的。对我自己而言，我进入这个领域、进入这个群体的历程始于达雷尔在“9·11”事件后加入加拿大武装部队。当时第二架飞机撞向大楼。不久之后，他来到我和我们的朋友群面前说：“我要加入加拿大军队。”我们当时觉得：“好吧，这意味着什么？那会是怎样的一种生活？”我们完全没有概念。我们不是出身于军人朋友圈，也不是在重要军事城镇甚至军校生活，所以根本不知道那意味着什么。
接着，事情发生得非常快。他顺利入伍，去了佩塔瓦瓦（Petawawa），成为皇家加拿大龙骑兵团（Royal Canadian Dragoons）的一员。几年后，突然有一天，当你正坐着吃早餐时，在屏幕上看到了军方所谓的阵亡将士照片。我永远不会忘记看着那张照片时的震撼——安大略省的鲍曼维尔（Bowmanville）这个小镇与阿富汗的坎大哈在此刻交织在一起。那是一段极度令人动容的情感经历，但它引发了我的思考：如果我能做更多事情，回馈那些保护我们国家与社区安全的人，我一定会去做。正是这一点促使我加入并带领 Wounded Warriors Canada，至今已有13年。
英文原文
**>>**: Yeah. Well, I mean, for myself, it was my journey into this sector, into this community started as a result of Darrell joining the Canadian Armed Forces after nine over 11. The second plane hit the tower. Not long after that, he came to us and our friend group and said, you know, I'm going to join the Canadian Forces. And we're like, you know, okay, what does that mean? What does that look like? We had no idea. It wasn't a big military group of friends or a military major military town, or even a school. So we didn't know what it looked like. And all of a sudden things started happening really fast. Obviously he joined. He went off to Petawawa. He became a member of the Royal Canadian Dragoons. And all of a sudden, years later, you're sitting there having breakfast and you see what they classify as their dead photo on the members dead photo on the screen. And I'll never forget looking at it and just like, wow, like this small town, Bowmanville, Ontario meets Kandahar, Afghanistan. It was a it was quite an emotional experience, but it led me to think if I could ever do more and give back to those that are keeping our country and our community safe, I, I would do it. And that's what led me to join and, and help now lead wounded Warriors Canada for the for my time the last 13 years.>>: 斯科特，我们今天就聊到这里。非常感谢你的时间。我知道有许多老兵和家庭对你们所做的工作心存感激。
英文原文
**>>**: Scott. We're going to leave it there. But I want to thank you for your time. But I know there's lots of families and veterans who really are very thankful for the work that you do.>>: 感谢邀请我参加节目。
英文原文
**>>**: I appreciate you having me on.>>: 谢谢。你如何纪念国殇纪念日，你认为加拿大还可以做些什么来支持老兵？请告诉我们。给我们发送电子邮件至 rundown@TVO.org，或者一如既往地在我们的 YouTube 页面留言。明天见。