Rosie Garren: I'm Rosie Garren and you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.

Rosie Garren: Hey, it's Rosie and I've got a bonus episode for you today. My guest is my colleague Brenda Stolar. Brenda is a senior staff writer here at Wire Cutter and her beat is all things smartphone, tablets, wearables. Last week, she covered a product launch event at Apple here in New York where they revealed, among other things, a brand new quote affordable MacBook, the MacBook Neo, and a new version of its budget iPhone, the iPhone 17e. Now, Apple isn't necessarily synonymous with affordability. So, the first and most obvious question for me is, what's the catch? These new releases could save you hundreds of dollars, but what, if anything, are you sacrificing? Do they work the same as their standard price counterparts? What are the trade-offs? I'm going to put those questions and more to Brenda after a quick break. We'll be right back.

Rosie Garren: Brenda, welcome to the show.

Brenda Stolar: >> Thank you. I'm glad to be back.

Rosie Garren: >> All right, let's jump in. The new iPhone 17e and the newest budget MacBook, this MacBook Neo, both start at $600. I want to know is that what a regular person would consider affordable?

Brenda Stolar: >> Yes and no. I think it depends on the context. So, I would say within the broader range of smartphones and laptops, it's definitely more on the expensive side. So, budget Android phones fall within, I'd say, the $100 to $400ish range, while budget laptops cost between $200 and $500. But it's affordable when we're talking about Apple's ecosystem specifically.

Rosie Garren: >> That's what you mean by the context of the ecosystem.

Brenda Stolar: >> Yes, 100%. So, you know, when it comes to the rest of the iPhone lineup, the iPhone 17e is considered affordable because it's a starting price of $599, which is $200 cheaper than the iPhone 17. And then the same applies to the MacBook Neo, which starts at $599, and that's $500 cheaper than the base model MacBook Air, which is a massive difference.

Rosie Garren: >> That's huge.

Brenda Stolar: >> Yeah. especially when you're in high school or in college and you know you want a capable laptop to get you through the year or years ahead and you're counting every last scent. It's also important to remember that this is the original price. So the education discount brings it down to $499. And then I expect this MacBook to definitely be discounted at third party retailers, you know, during big sale events like Amazon Prime Day or Best Buy typically holds a sale. So, we're likely going to see this drop even further.

Rosie Garren: >> So, our colleagues, yourself included, have been testing these products already. You already have your hands on them. What were your first impressions of the new phone and this new MacBook?

Brenda Stolar: So, the iPhone 17e was definitely not as exciting as the MacBook Neo because the 17e is an iterative update from the 16e. There's really not all that's crazy different about it. My favorite thing is that they finally added MagSafe support. So, there are magnets built into the back of the phone. And that means when you attach a wireless charging puck to it, it's less likely to slide. you'll get faster charging speeds and then you can also stick on a million different accessories like a popsocket or a stand or a wallet. So, that was a huge criticism of the last model. Everyone was like, why is there no MagSafe compatibility? So, everyone was definitely really excited to see that. And then the MacBook Neo, I mean, I definitely expected it to feel a lot cheaper because it's an entry-level laptop. So,

Rosie Garren: >> and it's $500 cheaper than the next level up.

Brenda Stolar: >> Yeah, it's aluminum. Got the aluminum chassis, so it feels very similar to the MacBook Air. It is I don't know if chunkier is the right word. I picked up the MacBook Neo and I was shocked to learn that it's actually the same weight as the MacBook Air. So, they're both 2.7 pounds. The MacBook Neo is thicker though, which is good because again, if this is geared towards the younger audience and they're taking it to school, that thing will definitely be durable to get through, you know, being thrown in your backpack, being thrown on a desk. I also wish the colors though were a little bit more vibrant for this MacBook.

Rosie Garren: >> Yes.

Brenda Stolar: >> What colors does it come in?

Brenda Stolar: Blush, citrus, indigo, and then silver for people who don't want, you know, a fun color. I don't think I've ever seen a computer in the color of citrus.

Rosie Garren: >> This has been such a fun topic. Just the color citrus. Like our Slack channel was going off because we were just like I was the only one on the ground at the event and so I was the only one that could describe the tone, the saturation, what it looks like in different lighting environments cuz

Brenda Stolar: >> it's orange, right? Are we Can we just

Brenda Stolar: >> No, it's it's it's lemon lime kind of. I like to think of it as like the Gatorade lemon lime flavor.

Rosie Garren: >> It's an interesting color and also

Brenda Stolar: >> the keyboards are color matched,

Rosie Garren: >> but that was another topic of discussion because they look almost they're very light, so it looks almost white in certain lighting.

Brenda Stolar: >> You mean the keyboard is technically citrus colored as well?

Brenda Stolar: >> Supposed to be. Yeah. Interesting.

Brenda Stolar: >> Yeah. But it's it's very subtle. But yeah, I wish the colors were definitely more vibrant. But as a whole, it feels like a premium laptop for $500.

Rosie Garren: My guess is that the biggest question I and most people will have about these two new products is what are you sacrificing in exchange for affordability? Are you missing things that are going to be noticeable if you opt for this more affordable phone or this more affordable laptop? Let's start with the iPhone. How is the 17e different from the 17?

Brenda Stolar: >> Yeah, so when you compare them side by side, they're fairly similar for the most part, but I would say the biggest difference is the cameras because the iPhone 17e has a single 48 megapixel camera on the back and a 12 megapixel front-facing camera. And back in September, Apple updated the iPhone 17 front-facing cameras with 18 megapixel sensors, support for center stage, which keeps you in frame automatically um when you're taking a selfie. And so the 17E did not get that treatment. As far as the front-facing, it is lower resolution. As far as the rearfacing cameras, you're losing out on an ultra wide lens. So, for people who really depend on the iPhone for photography, this is probably not going to be the right option. No, this is for the person who just likes to snap random photos of things. They're not messing around with any sort of editing tools. I mean, they can in post, but they're just taking photos to just have them on their phone. They just want the memories. So, I think it's very important to think about how you take photos and whether or not you're going to miss out on those different types of sensors.

Rosie Garren: >> Beyond the camera, what else might you be sacrificing if you reach for the more affordable 17e?

Brenda Stolar: >> The big thing with the iPhone 17 is this year more than ever, it's a lot more similar to the Pro models. So, the 17 has the same screen size as the 17 Pro and has always on display mode and promotion, which is the high refresh rate on the screen. There's also a dynamic island for app alerts, music controls, timers, etc. While the 17e has none of those features, so you're sacrificing that always on display, promotion, smaller screen size, and yeah, you get a notch instead of a dynamic island. And then also shorter battery life.

Rosie Garren: >> So, how about storage for the 17e and speed?

Brenda Stolar: >> Yeah. So, the 17e has an A19 chip and that is the same one as the iPhone 17. So, you shouldn't really expect a crazy difference in performance. And they also have the same amount of storage. So, you have the choice between a 256 GB or a 512 GB. And that is one of the upgrades with the 17e this year is they increased the base model.

Rosie Garren: >> That sounds like a good deal.

Brenda Stolar: >> I know they're very similar. When I was like read I I was just like refreshing my memory last night and I'm like looking at the comparisons and I'm like wow the 17e is is it's feature- packed for sure. It really just I will say it comes down to the cameras and then also that higher refresh rate. I didn't realize how much of a difference it is on your eyes to go from a 120 Hz screen to a 60 Hz screen even.

Rosie Garren: >> What can you can you describe how that what that experience would be?

Brenda Stolar: >> It feels a lot smoother when you're scrolling. For me, it would be scrolling through social media. I'm not a gamer. I don't play mobile games. But that is also important for people who play mobile games because with higher refresh rates come smoother graphics and that can be very important to people. For me, it's scrolling through social media. It really is a lot easier on the eyes. It just it's quicker. It feels smoother. It's a very minor thing, but going from one to the other can can feel jarring.

Rosie Garren: >> Well, that was my next question. It's, you know, you are somebody who lives and breathes this professionally. For me, is it something I would notice if I wasn't holding both of them side by side?

Brenda Stolar: >> Probably not. And also people that are coming from an older iPhone will not be coming from a 120 Hz phone, but they may be coming from a laptop that has 120 Hz refresh screen or a tablet. Just little things to consider like that, but not not a major difference.

Rosie Garren: Let's pivot to the MacBook. In what ways is this affordable MacBook different from the standard typically priced one beyond the fact that it's $500 cheaper?

Brenda Stolar: Yeah. So, up until now, up until the MacBook Neo, the MacBook Air was the most affordable option and that was $999 until this launch where they upgraded it with more base storage. So, now it starts at 11. So, no longer the affordable option. And now you have the MacBook Neo, but that does come with trade-offs. So, Apple did have to cut some corners to keep that price down. The biggest difference is that it runs on an A18 Pro chip and that is an iPhone chip while the other MacBooks rely on Apple's M series chips and that's specifically built for Mac. So, it's definitely not the laptop that you're going to use for heavyduty video editing or photo editing or gaming or 3D rendering. This is the laptop that you use for your basic everyday tasks. Web browsing, scrolling through social media, streaming Netflix or Hulu or whatever, you know, FaceTiming your friends, streaming music, maybe light gaming, light editing. It's just your very basic computer. I think that's what people have to remember here is there is a group of people that just want a computer that works to get the basic things done. They don't rely on it for intense tasks.

Rosie Garren: >> So Brenda, people considering these two new products are going to want to know whether they're sacrificing speed for affordability, performance for affordability. So, when we mentioned earlier that the iPhone 17e is actually very similar to the iPhone 17, I would say with this iPhone, you're not sacrificing speed for affordability. Again, it has the same A19 chip that powers the iPhone 17, so performance will not be an issue. the sacrifices are more evident when it comes to those other features like that single camera, shorter battery life, slower charging speeds, and then all those other features with the display that we talked about before like always on and and promotion. The MacBook Neo, on the other hand, is different. So, that one definitely prioritizes affordability over power. In addition to that A18 Pro chip, it has 8 gigabytes of RAM, which has sent everyone into a tail spin.

Brenda Stolar: >> It's not sending me into a tail spin. And that's suggesting to me that I don't know the significance of 8 GB of RAM. So, explain.

Brenda Stolar: >> 8 GB of memory is low. To give you an example, the MacBook Air starts at 16 GB. And the good thing is you can configure it up to 32 GB, but with this you're fixed at 8 GB. And the issue here is that it can be very limiting depending on who you are. So, if you're the type who always has dozens of tabs open or apps open all simultaneously, it's likely going to stutter and you're probably going to have to be very cognizant of how much you're doing in order for it to continue to run smoothly in order for apps not to crash or for you to not trigger, you know, the dreaded beach ball that loves to spin on the screen and then you have to force quit the app. So, you have to be intentional with the usage when it comes to that small amount of RAM, which wouldn't be a problem with a higherend MacBook like the Air because you can configure it depending on how much you need. So, here you're kind of like cornered into a specific amount and then you have to figure out how to use that well and how to optimize it.

Rosie Garren: >> Got it. I highly recommend checking out our best MacBooks buying guide because our Mac expert laptop reviewer Dave Gersorn tested the MacBook Neo and he has all of the thoughts in the guide very similar to what we were saying where he did experience a lot of those hiccups but he also I think it's important to remember that the MacBook Neo has not been out for very long and so we are just getting initial reviews. He does emphasize that it is too early to predict how this less capable chip will continue to perform in the future.

Brenda Stolar: >> So keep an eye on updates of Dave's guide.

Brenda Stolar: >> I'm sorry if I'm creating more work for Dave if you're listening, but yes, because I think I've been seeing a lot of people online putting the MacBook Neo through its paces. A lot of people are saying it can't do X, it can't do Y, it can't do Z. And then somebody will be like, "Look, it did it." And it's a it's a new MacBook. You know,

Rosie Garren: >> it needs it needs a minute.

Brenda Stolar: >> Yeah. Let's let's give it some time and then see how it's going to perform.

Rosie Garren: >> It's long been a complaint from Apple or perspective Apple users that these products are way too expensive. So, I'm curious, why release an affordable MacBook and this affordable iPhone now?

Brenda Stolar: >> So, even though the affordable iPhone and MacBook have likely been on Apple's product roadmap for a while, we've been hearing rumors about a lowcost MacBook for years now and we've just been waiting on it and it's finally here. But it's tough to ignore that the timing definitely feels strangely serendipitous, especially with the MacBook. With AI growing as quickly as it is, AI data centers are expanding, which has caused a massive shortage of RAM and the price of PCs to rapidly increase. Our tech editor, Arthur Geese, has a great story on the death of a cheap laptop that I recommend everyone reads because it's an excellent breakdown of what's happening, why this is happening, and buying advice on how to navigate this and and what to do. This problem will eventually hit smartphones as well. So, it's a great time to offer appealing budget options that people can buy now so that they don't have to pay a lot more when prices get worse. But even before these prices increase, the world of budget laptops has always been very confusing. Our laptop expert Kimber streams, I give them so much credit. It can be very confusing and you know there's different manufacturers HP, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, hundreds of models and configurations like I said that constantly shift in price and go out of stock. So it's easy to feel decision fatigue or you know to feel like you're buying the wrong one by accident and not like just not feel confident in your decision. And

Rosie Garren: >> everyone's going to be feeling a lot of pressure right now to just buy something so that they're not left out in the cold or forcing to spend, you know, more than they wanted to.

Brenda Stolar: >> Particularly if you're saying prices are inevitably going to rise.

Rosie Garren: >> Yeah. They're calling it Ramageddon.

Brenda Stolar: >> Oh, brother. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would like to think that Tim Cook had like a crystal ball of sorts where he was like, "Ramageddon 2026. Let's release, you know, these affordable options." It's serendipitous, I think, is the only word really, you know, and there's something to be said about Apple really taking advantage of this moment and attracting people in that normally would not be an Apple user

Brenda Stolar: cuz I know we have, you know, a lot of Apple loyalists who have just been locked into the ecosystem forever, >> but there are people who haven't. So, they're inviting them in. And if they're buying a MacBook Neo now, right, they're in high school or they're in college, those people are going to grow up and then they're going to upgrade to a MacBook Air and then they're going to upgrade to a MacBook Pro. So, it's just a world of opportunity all around for them and really great timing to lock in on.

Rosie Garren: >> Brenda, thank you so much. This is super helpful information. Thank you. If you want to check out Brenda's piece on Wire Cutters website, it's called Apple is in its affordable era, sort of. That's it for us. Till next week, thank you so much for listening.