Host: Organisers are starting petitions and filling committee rooms at Toronto City Hall. Their goal to save one of the city's legendary dive bars, Sneaky Dee's. George CEO Montrose is the general manager of Sneaky Dee's, and he joins me from the second floor of Sneaky Dee's. How are you doing, George?

George: I'm doing well today. Thank you. How are you?

Host: I'm doing well. All right. Help us understand sort of what we've seen over the headlines is this outpouring of support from Sneaky Dee fans over the last couple of weeks. What has it been like to see so much love?

George: Well, it's really been kind of incredible. We know we've you know, we know where we stand in, you know, in the local music scene and in the community in general. But it's it's really incredible to see it all unfold like this. And, you know, it's been, it's been really good because we've been part of a conversation that I guess has to exist in Toronto these days. And, and we, we're definitely very happy.

Host: Tell me about that conversation. What have we seen in terms of support? I know people have been wearing pins. People have been speaking at City Hall. But when you talk about sort of that conversation that we are seeing here in the city, what are you talking about?

George: Well, it's I mean, the larger conversation is obviously the loss of like, you know, cultural spaces in Toronto, independent music venues, independent restaurants, just sort of the corporatisation of the city and where it all goes from here and what role people power is going to play in it. Right?

Host: I want to I want to talk about sort of that connection that a lot of Torontonians and people outside of the city that have with Sneaky Dee's. Why do people feel so strong about your business?

George: I mean, with us in particular, I've always felt that that people think this is their place, whether it's their first time here or they've been coming here for years, they feel comfortable and at home they get to see something unique here. Not to say that that doesn't exist in other parts of the city, but because we've been around so long, it's very it's very much a part of Toronto in general.

Host: As you mentioned, you know, Sneaky Dee's is one of the only independent music venues in the city not operated by Live Nation. What does that tell us about its long history in Toronto's music scene?

George: It just means that we're I mean, we still we're still a place where people can go and see, you know, local bands for, you know, relatively inexpensive, you know, ticket prices and beer prices. And that's sort of it's something that's sort of vanishing from the landscape of the city as it's getting harder and harder for young bands to break in. There's less spaces where they could come up and develop in, you know, there are a few places left. But, you know, prior to the pandemic and then post-pandemic, there are fewer and fewer. They seem to be. Not as embraced by the city at large by, by, by city council, let's say. But the the citizens definitely require that and need that in their lives. And we fill that gap, and we hope to continue filling that. For a long time.

Host: You were talking about City Hall. So I have to ask, where do we stand right now with the business, with the business's future? I know that this is a conversation that you guys have had to sort of deal with at once in 2020, and here we are again. But where do we stand with sort of the redevelopment project?

George: I mean, as it stands right now, it's still going to go to a vote to the city. And in July, you know, we have to prepare for all sorts of inevitabilities. You know, we we hope to keep, you know, pending approval of development. We hope to keep operating. We hope that if the if the property is developed, that we return here and we're able to operate once again in our in what's become our neighbourhood for the last almost 40 years. But we have to prepare for. The possibility that we might have to move somewhere in the interim, or possibly permanently.

Host: Have you started to look in terms of locations across the city? I know a lot of people look at that corner and say, that's it's it's that is that.

George: Corner thing. Like, it's hard to come down to Little Italy or Kensington Market and not notice the sneaky Dee's just standing there because it's been there for almost 40 years. But we wouldn't we definitely would want to stay in the neighbourhood. But you know, the real estate in Toronto is it's not easy. Spaces are increasingly expensive. We'll see. We'll see what happens. You know, it's we we have to sort of take a wait and see approach.

Host: You know, you talk about the musicians and sort of the the need for spaces like that. I remember, I don't know, I think when I was in high school, I remember there's probably still, you know, my name etched on a table or on a wall or in the bathroom or something like that. But if the city, you know, if councillors do decide to accept the redevelopment plans, what does the city lose in that case? Not just as a music venue, but a third space for a lot of people just to kind of, you know, have a beer and have some very well-priced nachos.

George: You know, I've heard a lot of people describe this place as their second home. I've heard some people describe it as their first home. And I feel like, you know, the I don't want to overstate what we are, but, you know, I, I let our customers and I let our fans and I let you know, the bands that play music here and the sort of cultural events that happen. I let them sort of describe what they feel about it. And to quote some of them, you know, it's it's going to be it's going to be a loss. It's, it's, again, exceedingly difficult to find spaces like this where people, you know, can form communities and feel like they're a part of something when, you know, in a, in a, in an isolating world, in a world of, you know, TikTok and Instagram, this is the kind of place where people can come and just hang out and have well-priced nachos and cheap beer and watch a local band. So it's all those things, you know.

Host: Now, you had mentioned that, you know, for some people, this is not just their second home, but their first home, which also makes me think of, you know, this sneaky Dees is a family run business. What is it like, you know, to, to be able to say that, you know, you are an institution and that you see that sort of community outpouring?

George: Well, I mean, it, it feels very special because, I mean, my father and his brothers started this in back in 1987, actually in a different location on Bloor Street across the street from Honest Ed's, which is also gone. But the and, you know, and I grew up in this business and like, as much as it feels like home to me, I understand where people are coming from when they say this is their first home and it's, you know, it's, it's unfortunate, but it might be inevitable. But, you know, at the end of the day, the heart of what is Sneaky Dee's is going to remain and possibly move to somewhere else or might be right back in this exact space. I, I tend to be on the optimistic side, especially when I see like an outpouring of support.

Host: George, we're going to have to leave it there. But I appreciate your time. Wish you all the best in in the sort of the next steps here and I hope I was talking to a fellow producers here that hope we can get some nachos and beer soon, so we might make a trip.

George: If you can't find where you wrote your name, you'll have to just do it again.

Host: There we go. All right. Really appreciate it. Take care, George.

George: Okay, thanks very much. Have a great day.