JJ Angler: One of the things I love about having this project system, you're orchestrating now. Even though you might not be a developer, you're now an AI orchestrator. You can run many agents at once and have this top level view to be able to just quickly see which agent needs your attention and just give them those permissions or to pop back in.

Claire Vo: I don't know. This is like very sad. All my friends are agents. I'm a solo founder. It is like very hard to just me by myself ensure that all my ideas are great. When you use sub agents, it will spin up three different agents and each of those agents can have their own persona with like a fresh contact window, meaning like fresh perspective to go and look at your work in a objective way.

JJ Angler: If you're a product manager, build it and like put your boss in there, your engineering partner, and your customer and say every PRD review from these three points of view and give me feedback. If you're in marketing, your ICP, I think there's just a lot of places where this multi- view feedback mechanism is super useful.

Claire Vo: 100%. We could take this a step further and say, "Hey, create this sub-advisory skill. Maybe three of the agents, like one agent is literally your boss, that you send an agent to go research who your boss is, their role, their perspective, and have them simulate the feedback that they might give you before you even go to them. The sky's is the limit here. You just got to tell Claude what to do and it's going to go do it for you."

Claire Vo: Welcome back to How I AI. I'm Claire Vo, product leader and AI obsessive here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. When Claude Co-work first came out, I was pretty much a skeptic, but I have been hearing more and more that co-work is the way that everybody I know, especially those who are a little less technical than us engineers, get their daily work done. Which is why I'm so excited to have JJ Angler here from 10X who is a co-work power user but is going to take a step back and show us how to zero to one on Anthropic's new get work done tool. Let's get to it. This episode is brought to you by Tines the intelligent workflow platform powering the world's most important work. Business moves faster than the systems meant to support it. Teams are stuck with repetitive tasks, scattered tools, and hardto-reach data. AI has huge promise but struggles when everything underneath is fragmented. Times fixes that. It unifies your tools, data, and processes in one secure, flexible platform. Blending Agette AI automation and human-led intervention. Teams get their time back, workflows run smarter, and AI actually delivers real value. Customers now automate over 1.5 billion actions every week. Tines is trusted by companies like Canva, Coinbase, Databricks, GitLab, Mars, and Reddit. Try Tines at times.com/howi AI. JJ, welcome to How I AI.

JJ Angler: It is a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited about what you're going to show us because when Claude Co-work, which is what we're going to talk about, first came out, I wrote this article that kind of blew up on Twitter and a bunch of podcasts talked about it, which was, "Who is Coowwork for anyway?" Because when I first tried it, it seemed like a UI that had just been slapped on top of Claude Code. And I looked at it and I said, "Okay, if you're not, you know, in cloud code all day writing in the terminal, but you're not super technical, like what is this product that's in the middle?" And, you know, shame on me because as it happens, product continues to progress week over week. The anthropic team, the Claude team is cooking non-stop. And I just kept hearing more and more from my non-technical friends, "Oh my god, co-work's amazing." or oh my god, I use co-work to do everything in my job now. And then, you know, I've given it a spin in the past couple weeks and the UI has really gotten there. What it can do really has gotten there. And so, I'm so excited for you to show us the zero to one for co-work. And I just have to ask you, what got you hooked on this particular tool?

Claire Vo: Yeah, I think like many, we were just experimenting with it and then quickly I saw that how easy it was to connect your business tooling to it. uh whereas like you know I built a lot latin cloud code but if I wanted to just connect my my Slack my Gmail my notion co-work is just one click and then all of a sudden you have an AI processing all of that information helping you do your job better and it's just so easy and so like that's where it started but then I started to like really like go deep on it I'm like oh my god this is really helping me my dayto-day so I use co-work for all of like my productivity stuff of like emailing slacks building projects and documents and then cloud code I still build with.

JJ Angler: I love that because everybody is saying, "Oh, everything's going to be a CLI or an API or a TUI, all this stuff." And I'm like, people just love clicking a button. I don't know. They're just

Claire Vo: people want a button. So, part of what I hear for you is like it gave you a button to click to get connected to all your business data and then when you're working in co-work, you're in sort of like business mindset, personal productivity mindset, and then when you're in cloud code, you're in builder mindset. Yeah, exactly. And you know, I'll pull up my screen in a second here, but you know, the anthropic desktop app has three different modes. Chat, co-work, and claude. We've been in chat for a while now with chatbt, etc. Like I think most of the knowledge workers are like in chat mode, too. But the co-work switch over to that tab is like the first kind of switch where these knowledge workers, even if they're not technical, can start doing more with AI. And it enables you to just do so much with AI in a very similar chat interface, but where like it's actually doing stuff for you where like in chat it's like cool, you told me what to do, but now I got to go do it. Co-work is literally doing it for you.

JJ Angler: Why don't you get your screen started and you're going to show us if you were completely brand new to co-work if you had spent all your time in that chat tab and you ready to click that middle tab co-work in the cloud desktop app what you would do. And I just want to call out for folks, uh, co-work is available in the clawed desktop app. So I think you have to be on desktop, not web. And it shows up again as one of these three tabs across the top. The middle one says co-work. And you have to click that. And then you're going to show us what to do once we're there.

Claire Vo: So I have co-work pulled up here. This is on the desktop app. And they also have a mobile app as well. Mobile app does not work as well with co-work. Uh, that's where kind of cloud code continues to be really powerful. But co-work, let me give you the lowdown here. So co-work can actually access your desktop. And a lot of people in the beginning days of like, hey co-work, go and like organize folders for me or go and like organize these receipts for me. And yes, co-work can do that, but co-work can do so much more as well. Co-work accesses your computer. It can access your browser. It can perform actions on your behalf. uh if you need to order or you know book reservations for dinner, it will go find you know restaurants looking for you on your browser you know contact contact them etc. Right now when you get started with co-work you'll go to a new task and it's going to ask you to open up a project.

Claire Vo: Okay now this is a very important concept that uh a lot of people kind of get stumbled on is like what is a project? Well in the simplest form a project is a folder on your computer. This is where we are going to work out of and store our files for this project within that area. So if I look at my computer, I have a location called JJ and within location JJ, I have projects and this is where I build all of my projects. Now some of these are cloud code projects and some of these are co-work projects. Co-work is a really great like on-ramp to cloud code, teaching you some of the basic skills of like how to operate in cloud code without going full terminal mode, all that kind of stuff. So within this I have a popular workspace that I use called claude co-workspace that is like a generic highle workspace and I start off this workspace with what I call is my brain. Okay, so my brain goes into very detail of like what are my working preferences? Who are the team members that I work with? And if I were actually to open this up, I'm just going to hit spacebar. It's just an MD file, which is essentially like a doc file, a text file. This is a very specific series of instructions that we, you know, also known as a prompt that Claude can read to get up to speed very quickly of who you are, how you like to work, who you work with, and all of your different preferences. This way, once I trigger a prompt within co-work, it gets all of this this information with it and just knows so much more about me. And sometimes we had like in uh you know chatbt we had like that one thread of like oh this is my thread for like all my product marketing and this is my thread for like uh brainstorming about this or whatever. You had like that one thread with a lot of good context that was like very important to you but you couldn't transfer it anywhere. If you set up the time with your folders, you'll be able to build those threads, but in a very transferable uh way that allows you to take that context and bring it with you every single time you want to do anything in co-work. And that is the big unlock here. With co-work, you're not starting over from the start. If you build up these projects, you're starting from a really good place where co-work already knows about you, your preferences, all that kind of stuff, and then it just starts doing stuff with you as a a as a partner here. All right.

JJ Angler: Yeah. Before you show us how you'd create maybe a new project here, I just want to call out some some things for folks because you know if you're new to some of these like I would say 2011 level AI concepts going from chat to projects you get really confused. I remembered when Anthrobit came out with skills and people were like what's a skill? I'm so and I was like skill is literally like a file that describes what you want to do. Like let me just make it very simple for you. It's a file and then what's a what's a project? A project is just literally a folder with files in it. And so, you know, you don't have to be intimidated by these concepts. It's just I'm working on something. I'm gonna spin up a folder, a drive for this. I'm going to put all my context and capture all my context in that one folder. So, anytime I come back to work on that, I have the files that I'm working for. And this is how we work in business every day, right? You organize your G Drive or your notion by folders. exact same concept except this time Claude can go in and actually do some work in in that workspace alongside you.

Claire Vo: Great call out. That's exactly it. And actually in this session today we are going to be building like a daily operating system that I will make downloadable for you all to get at the end of the show. So definitely stick with us for that. I do just want to continue like overall explaining like what we're going to do and then we're going to get hands- on keyboard and start doing it together.

JJ Angler: Great.

Claire Vo: Yeah.

Claire Vo: Cool. Um, so this is my general architecture here and at the top level I have this workspace map. And so this is essentially something I said, "Hey Claude, look through all of the folders in this or files in this folder and generate a workspace map to help you navigate this better." So that way whenever I'm in this workspace, Claude and I send a prompt, Claude will look at that workspace map and say, "Oh, hey, he needs help with a Twitter post. I'm going to go into his Twitter folder, use that skill that he's already prepared, and then write it that way. Without that workspace map, sometimes Claude has to ingest all of that stuff, which takes up more tokens, and it kind of makes it a little bit muddy because you're sending a lot of context to Claude where maybe it just needs to know how you'd like to write on Twitter, and that's it. So, the workspace map helps Claude navigate your folder structure in a better way. And again, it's as simple as connecting to Claude to any folder and just saying, "Hey, Claude, create a workspace map for me." It's going to map everything out and create it for you.

JJ Angler: Yeah. What I love about working with a tool like Claude, although other tools also do this in a desktop folder of files, is it is much faster at browsing files and figuring out what's going on in there than I am. And so you can actually, you know, I think this is a trick that anybody can use, which is whenever you're trying to orient yourself to something, some work, whether that's a repo, whether that's a folder that somebody your colleague shared with you, you can open it in Claude and then just say what's going on in here and build even build me a map to where to where everything is is and that can be very helpful. But let's talk about how you actually kind of get started because you're showing us kind of a little bit of the end point. And I think people are saying, "Okay, this is great. I can I can end up with this project that has my brain in it."

Claire Vo: Um, but but how do you get started?

JJ Angler: Sure. So, I'm going to go into projects here and I'm going to create a new folder. Okay. And this folder is going to be called daily operating system. Okay. And I'm just going to bring it back into my projects there. All right. This is the start of everything. And then it's an empty folder. Now I'm going to go back into codework here. I'm going to open that up here. I'm going to go to different folder projects daily operating system. There we go. We're going to allow claude to operate within that. And it's saying, hey, do you want to use both of these or just this? And I'm going to uncheck this cuz I only want to use this folder right now. Okay. So, I can say anything I want to this. But generally, what I'm going to say is, hey Claude, I want to build a daily operating system. This operating system is going to help me manage my day-to-day and become a superhero within my workplace. So, I want this operating system to help me in a variety of ways. First, I'm going to have it help me work through my emails and and help me not only understand my inbox, but help me write better emails. I'm also going to use it to help me look through my Slack and figure out how I need to uh respond to some of my teammates and then help me write some of those Slack messages. And then I also want a thinking partner, someone that can act as like a mentor to me and help me through tough decisions. So I'm going to go through and ask you some things to help build some skills but start to lay the foundation for what this project is together.

JJ Angler: So there's a lot there and I'd say like this isn't much as you want it to be. Like this is very a chat focused experience. You could just start this off and it couldn't even look like any of that. It's just like you could just start in a task. It's however you want it to be. And as you grow more comfortable with it, uh, Claude will adapt to that. Um, but I think the general point is like don't let that big prompt like scare you. There's a lot of different ways to enter this. All right. Now, the first part is, okay, Claude looked at my prompt and it says, "Okay, I have some questions for you." Now, it's going to start asking me some questions. So, where do you want to store these files? I want to store it in my daily operation systems folder like it recommended. How do you want to interact with the daily operating system? I'm going to be doing it um on demand at the moment which essentially means like whenever I want to interact with it I will go into co-work and interact with it but I will also show you how to automate some of the stuff too. Uh for the thinking partner uh what kind of support matters most to you? Um I really like like career coaching and decision frameworks frameworks there. All right. So, we have this thing going here right now and let me explain co-work projects because this is a brand new feature and I absolutely love it. So, right now we are in a chat here. Okay. And we can start a new chat as well and you could see that I have active tasks going on here. And so, this view is kind of like a good orchestrator view of like seeing the agents that I have working for me. But projects allows you to take that to the next level. So, what I could do is I can go into a project here and I can create a new project. And I'm going to create a new project from an existing folder. That's the same folder that we've already created with the daily operating system. So, I'm going to go in there, projects, daily operating system, open. And it's going to open this new folder. And what is the instructions for this project? I'm going to use this folder and operating system to help me navigate the day-to-day life of a busy professional. you're going to help me with some superpowers by play applying some AI magic to it all. All right. And I'm just going to keep it there for now. So, we are now in a project interface. All right. And if I ever wanted to get back to that, I click on projects, see all my different projects, and then go into the project interface. Now, what is the importance of like why are we in a project rather than a task? Well, these tasks, they all kind of work, but projects allow you to start chaining tasks together, which means shared memory. Okay, so I can find this task right here, this this uh chat that I just had, and I can go and I can move it into this project. Okay, now this this project, this chat right here and if any other chat that I have, they all share the same context and they all and Claude knows what you're working on and can bring that with all the new stuff together. Okay. So, if you do anything new, it is very specifically knowing like what other chats you've had about this and picking up where you've left off.

JJ Angler: Yeah. So, there are two things that people need to know about from an organization perspective, which is one, we're going to pick a folder on your computer that contains all the files and context and all that stuff for a specific area you're working on. And then two, you're going to attach that folder to something called projects, which is available in the lefthand nav, to make sure that every time you're working in that folder or in that topic, um you're not only working with those files, but you're working with the memory of all the other things that you're either actively working on or have worked on in the past. And then you can give it um if you see in the top right you can give it just general instructions which is helpful for um guiding any work you do in that in that specific

Claire Vo: and this is specific project instructions and so each project can vary for different kinds of instructions right which is also really good context to have. Yeah. And speaking of context, if you look along the right hand side, there is a section that says context. And there's exactly what we talked about, which is the context of the folder and then the context of the memory that's been generated about this project,

JJ Angler: right? And so this is like the HQ for each project that you work on, right? And it's really become so helpful for me because as you start to have more tasks, all of the different agents for that project are listed here. And you could see like a highle orchestrator view of like which agent is working, which agent needs your help. Uh and all of those tasks and conversations are like shared together for that shared memory. Again, we want co-work to do stuff for us and we wanted to do it well and give us good consistent results. Sometimes when we operate at this high level, it's getting so much information about all the different things we're doing and the results can get confusing or fuzzy. But if you're operating within a project, it's very specific context about the specific project and your requirements for it. And it helps you get results faster. Like the prompts are literally faster because you're sending less contacts. You're saving tokens because you're more focused and organized and you just get better results in in a more consistent way. All right.

Claire Vo: Great. So, let me continue to build on this so we can eventually have something that you can download at the end of this show to start using for your own daily operating system. Sound cool?

JJ Angler: Yeah, let's do it.

Claire Vo: Cool. So, uh, with a couple of things that I want to call out here, connectors, so important. So, to add a connector, I'm going to rightclick here and I'm going to go into connectors. And I can see that I've already enabled some of my connectors, but I'm just going to click here so you can see this view. So, connectors allow you to connect your systems to co-work. Okay, so right now I have connected Gmail, Google Calendar, Google Drive, Notion, and Slack. And if I wanted to add more connectors, I can go to browse connectors and I can see a ton of connectors that I could do. It's normally like a one-click you authenticate and it comes in and you're connected. That essentially means Co-work has access to that application and a lot of those actions within that application. If I wanted to go into like my Gmail connection here, I could see that Co-work now has access to all of these tools and can actually do these for me. And if I wanted to get very specific about the permissions, I can go in here and say, "Hey, Co-work, uh, I'm not going to allow you to create an email draft or to do something, but I am going to allow you to do this or sometimes I want you to do this, but always ask me for permission." So with each connector, you can go in and modify those permissions, but generally this gives you a connection to your tools that you can use. Now I can go back into co-work here and I'm going to go back into my projects daily operating system. And the first thing I'm going to do is say, hey, analyze my Gmail, specifically the emails that I have sent in the last 30 days and use this to create a writing skill specifically for emails that I write using uh my emails as an example of my writing structure. So whenever I want you to write an email in the future, you know exactly how I write my emails and you'll use this skill.

Claire Vo: So this is going to start building an email skill for me. And it's going to do it by connecting to my Gmail, looking at my outbox of all the emails that I've sent in the last 30 days, analyzing that writing skill, and just perfectly matching the tone that I use in my writing. You know, AI is used for writing in a lot of different ways. And of course, there's a lot of AI slop, but when you can feed AI like a series of like a 100 messages, it could really get close to your exact writing style. And that's what this is doing here. So just to to kind of take a step back, connectors are really important because this is not only the the tools that are going to do work on your behalf, right? I think this is something that people might miss, which is yes, we can do connectors so you can draft emails to Gmail or write docs in notion, but there's also this ingest path that can make your use of these AI tools a lot better. And I haven't seen this use case before, so I want to call it out for people, which is have AI go read your emails and come back and build a skill, which I think is really important. And and skills, remember, for folks are just these like containerized little sets of instructions that can be called at any time. Go build a skill that writes emails in my tone. And you know, I think as somebody who's developing a daily operating system, I call this your like anti-to-do list is you come up with these list of things that you just like never want to do again. Like I never want to have to first draft my emails again. I never want to have to like show up to a meeting late because there's a conflict on my calendar or they've been set back to back. I just want these things I never have to worry about. And I think as somebody who's coming in and trying to think about how could I use co-work or something for my daily operating system, this idea of like burning down your anti-to-do list and then building skills on all those is is really sharp. And what I think you're showing is you can use connectors plus the brains of co-work to kind of come together and not only functionally achieve that, but achieve that in a way that's high quality for you personally.

JJ Angler: Yeah. And the results have been really good with it, too.

Claire Vo: Yeah. You have I mean, are you really getting emails that like sound like sound like you? Okay.

JJ Angler: Exactly. And normally what I'll do is I'll go into my instructions here and uh I haven't done this step yet, but I'll say never send emails on my behalf. only write them as drafts for me to review. Right? And now this is a very clear uh instructions of like, hey, it's actually never going to send anything for me because I don't trust that yet. But everything that I ask it to send, it's going to write that draft and just prepare it in my outbox or my drafts so I can approve it and then send it as well.

Claire Vo: By the way, you're being very chill about all your um voice entry stuff. What What is your uh voice tool of choice?

JJ Angler: Whisper flow.

Claire Vo: Whisper flow.

JJ Angler: It's just it's captured my heart. I'm a monologue girl, so you know, we all we all pick our favorites.

Claire Vo: You know what? It all works. It all works.

JJ Angler: It all works. This episode is brought to you by Cursor. If you all have been watching How I AI, you already know this. Cursor is my favorite way to code with AI. Whether I'm using plan mode to build out an ambitious feature, reviewing AI generated diffs right in my editor or kicking off cloud agents to multi-thread our roadmap, I reach for cursor as my favorite multimodel coding platform. Even better than building myself and cursor, I love collaborating with bugbot to fix PRs for code security and quality and have begun relying on cursor's automated agents to keep our codebase clean. It's not just me. The most ambitious teams love Cursor 2, including engineers at Stripe, OpenAI, and Figma. Ready to build more? We're giving $50 in cursor credit to How I AI listeners. Claim your credits at chatpd.ai/howi AI. That's $50 in cursor credits by going to chatpd.ai/howi AI. Okay. So, you've started I I see a a popup here. So tell me what's what's going on.

Claire Vo: So this is one of the things I love about having this project system. You're orchestrating now. Even though you might not be a developer, you're now an AI orchestrator. You can run many agents at once and have this top level view to be able to just quickly see which agent needs your attention and just give them those permissions or to pop back in. So right now we do see that hey this uh agent needs our attention. We can go in and review that and it's ask actually just asking us if we want to allow this. Okay. So without even having to go in there, I can just allow that. I could go into that connector and change those privileges just to say always allow. So I don't have to do that. But in this case, that was set to a ask for my permission. Okay,

JJ Angler: this is one of my one of my problems with with co-work, which is this is just like such a lovely non-technical experience until it shoves like a bash command in your face and is like, "Hey, do you want to allow this or not?" Yeah. And I just for all all the nontechnical folks out there that just were like, "Hey, hold on. I just saw a big line of code that said, "Are you okay with running this?"

Claire Vo: You can also like copy and paste that and ask a different cla what does this mean? You know, and I think what's kind of interesting about these hybrid tools that are kind of userfacing non-technical folks, but have this like claude code back uh back end is it's a nice way to actually step your way into the cloud code experience bit by bit. But again, don't be afraid. I think you can be pretty unafraid of some of these alerts that may look technical because you can always go ask what does this mean? Um should I do this? And I will also say that I think co-work in particular has been tuned to be pretty user friendly. Like there isn't a dangerously skip permissions on co-work quite yet. And so anything that Claude's asking you to do is probably in the realm of safe. Um although it's important to read whenever you hit that approve button.

JJ Angler: I was on the fence about calling this out, but people ask me co-workers versus open claw. And I know you're really big in open claw and I and I am too. I really really love it. But the way that I think about this is OpenClaw is for work in business where you can trust it with your more significant connections. And OpenClaw is incredible, but you maybe don't trust as much with your business tooling, especially in the first. It's a great personal assistant. It's a great autonomous agent and can do so much. And so I use both together, but co-work is like my daily business driver and OpenClaw is more like my personal assistant. Can they like just help me in a lot of things with limited access to a lot of its own accounts. Yeah, I'm I'm full claw full press claw world. Um, but again, I mean, again, I cannot go throughout through my day without somebody texting me like co-workers doing my job for me. I'm h happy as can be.

Claire Vo: Um, so you shown a shown an example that I think is generally applicable to people, which is write write my emails. What else? I mean just kind of top hits of workflows that you think something like co-work could do for you that you think belongs in in your operating system.

JJ Angler: Yeah, for sure. So I just looking at this agent here, it analyzed 46 emails uh and it went in and created a email style guide for me uh and a voice profile and saved it to my memory as well. So I'm going to go back over here. The next thing that I really like to use is Claude as a thinking partner. Thinking partner can come in many shapes and sizes. It could be like how do I respond to this Slack message? How do I respond to my colleague and give them good feedback? How do I think about my career and what I should do next? Now you can have a skill or a thinking partner for each one of those or you can have a generic one. Right now we are going to just create like a thinking partner like a/mentor that you can just trigger and just like help you think through important decisions and it will kind of like talk back to you in a way that you want to be supported. And so I'm going to launch another agent here and I'm going to say, "Help me create a new uh skill that is going to be our thinking partner." This thinking partner skill when invoked is going to allow me to think about how to respond to something, how to make a decision, how to critique in a colleague that I'm working with in a good but effective and helpful way, how to think about my career at large, and just generally going to help me think through the bigger items of whatever task is at hand. Um, and you can invoke this by saying, you know, help me think through this or, you know, navigate my thinking partner or anything like that.

JJ Angler: And then one last thing I do want to add is please ask me any questions if you're unclear. I love the asking any questions if you're unclear uh because generally a lot of times it is and it just forces it to like really get the more more context that it needs to make sure that it's building something specific to you. Right now, we've talked about skills a lot and we've actually even started creating skills. Skills are really powerful. You could think about it as like a very detailed prompt that is reusable in many different ways. And so rather than saying, "Hey, go off and create this newsletter for me." And then tell it everything that you want your newsletter, you can do that once and have a very clear pattern for like everything in your newsletter. And then you can just say, "Hey, write the newsletter." and it will invoke that skill and automatically use that instructions every single time.

Claire Vo: Yeah. And for folks uh I do actually have literally that skill in my my core chat PRD repo. I use it through cloud code. So I just do a slashnewsletter every Monday and it goes and looks through my change log. It writes the newsletter. It does it in my voice. It formats it for the newsletter platform. It pushes it via API and then I just go in and do a couple edits and and move on with my life. So that's that's a really great great use case.

JJ Angler: Let me have one more that we get going here. This is already building.

Claire Vo: "Hey Claude, I want you to build another uh skill and this is going to be a review agent. For this skill, you're going to launch a series of sub agents that have each their own persona. And this can differ per the task. But an example is if we're launching a newsletter, we want to have sub agents that represent our ICP. Maybe for me it would be AI builders, AI executives and AI interested people. And the goal of this skill is to allow sub agents to be able to review your work and give you honest feedback and to see from three different perspectives where you need to focus at your next iteration to improve the quality of your work. Let me know if you have any questions."

Claire Vo: So, this is another skill that I really love and I use like across so much of my work. It's like I use it in my newsletter. I use it in my podcast. I use it in my social media writing. It's a subadvisory skill is the general pattern. And what it allows you to do is claude, you know, it's working with you in this context and it generates an output. When you use sub agents, it will spin up three different agents and each of those agents can have their own persona. So like, hey, agent one, you are an AI builder. Agent two, you are someone that is so worried about security. and agent three, maybe you're just uh a mom worried about AI usage or a dad worried about AI usage or just as a arbitrary example, but my point of this is you can define three individual personas with like a fresh context window, meaning like fresh perspective to go and look at your work in a objective way that then brings back that feedback and it helps you kind of figure out like how is this going to be received before I even send it, right? And if you include your ICP personas in there, it also helps with this a lot too. And I found really good results with this kind of framework for creating your skills.

JJ Angler: One thing the one thing I think is really important to call out as you know people think about where this is applicable in their work is so many of us in the last five six years have moved to remote first working where getting collaborative feedback from your teammates is actually highly expensive. You have to call a meeting. Everybody's busy. synchronous work is quite hard and so being able to spin up prefeedback feedback from AI which will give you sort of a roundt view of your work allows you to come to those very expensive meetings honestly with much higher quality pre-thoughtout work um and and also I don't know this is like very sad all my friends are agents which is like it's really hard to work solo like I'm a solo founder it is like very hard to just me by myself ensure that all my ideas are great. And so I haven't heard of anybody giving this advice of like very specific use of sub agents which as you said is just imagine like there's a chat that's chatting with other chats that have some but not all the context and their own point of view. Maybe that's how you think about sub agents for folks that aren't super technical

JJ Angler: and then aggregate that back up and give you some feedback. I think is a a really useful just hack that everybody should have for their work. So if you're a product manager, build it and like put your boss in there, your engineering partner, and your customer and say every PRD review from the these three points of view and give me feedback. If you're in marketing again, like your ICP, give feedback. I think there's just a lot of places where this sort of multi- view feedback mechanism is is super useful.

Claire Vo: 100%. We could take this a step further and say, "Hey, create this sub-advisory skill and each maybe three of the agents, like one agent is literally your boss that you send an agent to go research who your boss is, their role, their perspective, and like really define like the people that you work with and have like them simulate the feedback that they might give you before you even go to them." Like the sky's is the limit here. And you just got to tell Claude what to do and it's going to go do it for you. So there's a lot of tools that you have at your disposal now uh to, you know, automate a lot of this. Like one example with this is I I also run a newsletter. And so the skill that we have for the newsletter is a almost like a 10-step skill of like before we even start writing this newsletter, I want you to interview me what this newsletter should be written about. Then once you're interviewing me, I also want want you to run a sub agent to do internet research on what is good in the AI world this week. What should we talk about in this? And once my interview is complete and once the research is complete, we now have an idea of like the content that we can do. And then it's going to start working through a series of subsklls which are like what should our subject line be and what are really good subject lines and it's going to have one set of instructions for that. And then my newsletter has like very specific body segments and each body segments has a specific skill within it saying like here's what makes a really good AI native section or what makes a really good uh AI future section, right? And at the end of all those steps, it has an evaluation part of the skill where it's going to go through a series of checklist lists and also launch that subadvisory board. And so it's going to go through all of this. And all I need to do is say ultra think skill and then it's going to start this series that it works through and just helps me. And by the end of it, it's done so much work for me and I've just had to answer some questions. And then it's outputed a draft that I think is really good. And I also feed it my past results of my newsletter of like hey we've written this together. This performed okay and I give it the results and it has a series of feedback and like you know review of like how these things are performing to see what's working and what's not which is a very important step because like if you don't tell AI what success is to you AI doesn't know what success is for you. So I always love including good examples and bad examples. This is very clear for like writing. If you're writing and you really like something, include it in a good example. But if it comes back with something that you don't like, put it in a bad example of like, "Hey, don't do that again. That doesn't look good." And this way, you're showing Claude what is good for you and what is bad for you, cuz that's subjective and different for everyone. And Claude needs to know it. All right. So, we have this multi-agent perspective here, and we can see that we've done a couple of things. This one, the thinking partner skill, needs my review. So, I'm going to go in there, and I'm just going to review it. And um it's looking for some information here and it looks like it had opened up. So they have this new interface here which allows you to review your thinking skill or whatever skill you created and see like and like test it in real time to see how it would come back and evaluate it like that. Right? So that's very helpful if you want to use that. But what I want to do is I want to go back to my project here and I want to create something called a scheduled task with you. A scheduled task allows you to create something that runs on a frequency. So it could run every hour, day, weekday, weekly, whatever. And this scheduled task is going to be a morning debrief. I want you every single morning to look at my email, my Slack, and my calendar and check it to help organize a plan of action for the day. So that way when I get into the office, I am aware of any kind of messages that need my attention. And you can start preparing me for my day by looking through my calendar and looking through my events and if I need any kind of meeting prep, helping me do that. But generally, the output is going to be like a plan for the day, helping me get started on the best foot every single day.

Claire Vo: So, that's going to be the prompt. And I'm going to run that daily. And I want it to run at like 7:30 a.m. And I could choose what model I want this to run with or where these outputs should go. Um, in this sense, it's going to be um, you know, the daily operations. That's going to be good. Um, and I'm going to just be able to save that.

JJ Angler: It needs a name.

Claire Vo: Ah, there it is. Thank you. I was like, what is it? Morning debrief. I want to call out for folks, we've seen a couple of these like morning debrief uh examples on how ai we've seen um Hillary has shown us she uses Obsidian hooked up to her claude code hooked up to her calendar. She writes plan my day. We've seen a couple of these scheduled sort of like news I need to know uh tasks in chat GBT. I think what I want to call out for folks, especially those who are again new to using AI beyond asking a question in chat GPT, which I know honestly you many of of you are, which is I've used chat GPT or Claude to ask a one-off question, get some info, you know, like write a song for my, you know, grandchild or answer a question about my medical health or write a document to my HOA, whatever. We, you know, people have used that use case, but what I think you're showing here is something that wasn't accessible to folks, which is you can actually build a little software powered system for yourself to make your day go easier. And it could be writing emails for you. It could be, you know, every morning send you a message about what your schedule looks like. Let's say you're not even you don't even have a busy schedule. Like I'm thinking about, you know, my dad's retired

JJ Angler: like news that you're you might be interested in for the day. I have a a daily um you know, in the in the technical world, we call it a cron and when you're on the when you're on the open claw side, but I have a daily schedule and in the morning I get pushed something kind of fun and interesting in the AI space and at night I get pushed an article that will like make me feel good, you know? Oh, and so you just think about if the internet could come to me

Claire Vo: as opposed to me having to go to the internet, what would I want the internet to come to come to me with? And that's what I think you focus your your morning debrief on. So it could be like highly functional from a productivity perspective. It could be, you know, go fill your water glass, don't drink coffee on an empty stomach, go for a walk and say hello to the sun. It can be any of those things, but it can be scheduled and it can be pushed to you.

JJ Angler: Right. And right now since we've scheduled this within a project, it has all the context of your project as well. Meaning the skills, your connectors and everything. And that's why having it scheduled within a project like building up that context, it gets very powerful over time and you're going to get better results. So this could be a project debrief or like if you're a project manager, every single day it's going to look at this project and just help write a plan of action for all of your team members to and send as a Slack message. So like once they enter that project plan for the day is done very specific to each project, right? So there's just so many ways you can use it. And this also connects to all of my tools. So it's going to read my email and my calendar and my Slack and just prepare a daily plan with all that context in mind in a safe way. That's like the unlock for me is like just being able to read all these tools and use an AI on top of that to like help me do my job better.

Claire Vo: Yeah. And I'll just call out for folks because again I think this is sort of like a claude co-work folks that are maybe newer to using AI in this particular way and the things that you're going to hear is like do I want AI reading my email? Do I want AI reading you know my calendar? And the recommendation that I give to everybody is again just think about this as progressive trust which is at first you just may want it to draft emails for you. Then you may want it to read your emails. Then you may want it to read your calendar or your Slack or any of those things. Then you may want to have like a shadow JJ that actually just operates completely independent of you and you're in the Bahamas hanging out and you know, agent JJ is actually doing your job for you. Just think about this on like a trust spectrum. you'll get, you know, you'll get to clarvo level at some point where you're just like floating floating through the tokens um approving API access. But I I do think, you know, people get nervous about this. It's it's a trade of of of information for productivity. And it's like we're all on one side or the other, which is you give the AI a little bit of information, it can help you be very very productive. And you've got to figure out where you feel comfortable on that spectrum in your business, in your personal life. I think you and I are just showing if you get to this far further edge, you're going to get a lot of value out of it that that you couldn't before.

JJ Angler: Yeah. And especially with the skills, like I know everyone says skill skills skills, but like I have a skill for everything. I have a skill for writing on Twitter. I have a skill for writing uh in LinkedIn. I have a skill for doing my YouTube uh my podcast, my newsletter. like just having that builtin infrastructure that whenever I need to do any of that stuff, it knows exactly the way I like to work. That is a very big unlock for me. Another thing that I've been doing is I'm working with Anthropic through my company 10X right now. And one of the things that we're doing is we're hosting a workshop for Anthropic. And so I threw in all of the documents that Anthropic gave us of like work program guidelines and workshop guidelines and everything. And so anytime I ask a question about this project, it has all of that context in mind. It knows exactly what Anthropic wants to do. It wants all that kind of stuff. And it's very clear and easy. And so whenever I start a new project, the first step is like, all right, I'm going to create a folder. I'm going to put all my files in that folder. I'm going to open up that folder in Claude called work. Create a project for it. And now that project can access all that information and be very specific about helping me do better with that context in mind. And it's just a big unlock for me. And it's it's a very easy way to get started doing more with AI that will teach you a lot of skills that you can transfer over to actually building stuff with AI, which is cloud code, which is also incredible. And the the rate at which co-work is improving is really really awesome. And so it's just one of those things where it's like if you're ready to do more with AI, which hopefully you are because that's where we're going and those that can are rising up really quickly. So hopefully you are. And if you are co-work is a really good next step for you to uh blossom a little bit, spread your wings and just see what you can do with AI doing stuff with you.

Claire Vo: Well, and I again I want to go back to folks that are like, "Okay, we got these two like podcast hosts telling us how they planning their like YouTube releases using co-work." I want to say that again these projects do not have to be workrelated, right? They don't.

JJ Angler: You can make a project that's house maintenance. Let me tell you a project that you make. House maintenance.

Claire Vo: Every couple months you need to change your air filters. Every, you know, like, you know, in the winter, you want to make sure to plan for XYZ. You've got a big kind of like remodel project going on. Put that in a clawed co-work project.

Claire Vo: Generate the things that you need to generate. Keep it in keep it in a workspace. Um, and so you can be really creative about what the idea of a project means. I've seen other people who are doing hiring and they're saying, "Here's my recruiting engineers project and it's all the work they need to do around job descriptions, sourcing, onboarding, interviews, all in one project. So again, it doesn't have to be personal productivity. It doesn't have to be workshops with Enthropic. It doesn't have to be your YouTube." And I love I'm glad you're showing this screen, which is co-work has this list of ideas of kind of things you can do with it. I think like good job um co-work product team because again people just this is part of the point of this podcast which is people hear that AI is awesome they want to use it they're ready to go and then they sit in front of a chat box and they're like what do I do with it like what can I possibly do

JJ Angler: and going to steal all of my data

Claire Vo: and is AI going to those are the two questions like is it going to steal everything and run off with my spouse and like what do I actually do and so I think like pod you know this podcast is a resource we actually put we're now almost 200 individual workflows documented out of this podcast um on the chat PRD how I AI blog where we've just like given you step by step how to copy this stuff. We'll do this episode as well, but I think the point is just like find something you're working on and and give it a go. Um JJ, I know that we got to get you back to your co-work projects and your podcast, your cloud coding and 10X and all that stuff. So, let's just do really quick lightning round super super fast answers. one, outside of what we just saw, what is your number one favorite co-work use case that you've discovered?

JJ Angler: Content creation is huge. Uh, doing this anthropic workshop right now, like it's so intense, but and so this project has been really helping me because they gave us like 30page document of like what to do and what not to do. And at any time I could just go and like what do they say here, what do they do here, and it literally helps me. So, uh, navigating a lot of files with co-work is just so helpful.

Claire Vo: Amazing. I've heard a lot of event planning with co-work and a lot of event planning with codeex which is open AI's kind of version of this. Very good. I'm wait I I call how I request if you are planning your wedding with co-work

JJ Angler: heard that

Claire Vo: great use case great can go find the vendors for you. It can write the emails for you. It could Oh my god. Great use case.

JJ Angler: I know. I know. This is going to be my next business. I'm going to do AIdriven uh wedding planning.

Claire Vo: Okay. My second question to you outside of co-work, what what's what's a tool that you're loving?

JJ Angler: I do a lot. I'm doing programmatic video creation for like so much of my stuff right now. Um, that's really working well. I really love pencil.dev, too. It's like the cursor but for design. And so, you tell it what you want and it'll design for you. So, those are some of my two favorites that I've been digging into outside of anthropic uh cloud code stuff.

Claire Vo: Yeah, man. Okay. If I haven't done a Remotion video by the time this comes out, yell at me in the comments. I will do it. People have been asking this um from me for months and months and months. I love Remotion, too. Again, uh programmatic video generation. Super super cool. Um and you can do it with with with cloud code. And then my last question which is you're this is maybe tricky because you seem to be a whisper flow sort of talk to the AI with your human voice which I think keeps us a little bit more polite but when AI is not listening what do you do? What's your prompting strategy?

JJ Angler: I'm generally polite

Claire Vo: because I I I'm generally polite but I will I will put on the cap locks and I will let it know sometimes when I'm talk when I mean business. I don't normally swear at it though. Um, usually when it's it's not behaving, it just doesn't know what I'm asking. And that's a good chance to like better communicate of like, here's what I'm asking. Here's what a successful output gets me. Help me figure that out. Uh, ask me any questions to help us get back on track. Launch a sub agent to figure out what's going on here. That kind of stuff like helps me like navigate to back to being like on track. And then also saying like, hey, what we just experienced that was not good. add that like scenario to like my negative outputs so we don't do that again.

JJ Angler: I I love it. I found myself I don't yell. I do sometimes all caps. I found myself being like, "This is truly insane. What you just did is cuckoo. Fix it." Um not not super polite, but but effective. Okay, JJ, where can we find you and how can we be helpful?

Claire Vo: I think I'm pretty much everywhere. I run a YouTube channel called 10XBuilder. I'm on X for JJing. uh LinkedIn at JJ England as well. I work at 10X. I lead our community enablement here. Uh we're doing a ton of stuff. So if you need help bringing AI transformation and enablement to your org, let us know. But otherwise, it is a pleasure being here. We love your work. I love your work. Thank you for inviting me. It's been a joy.

JJ Angler: Thanks for joining us.

JJ Angler: Thanks so much for watching. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe here on YouTube or even better, leave us a comment with your thoughts. You can also find this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Please consider leaving us a rating and review, which will help others find the show. You can see all our episodes and learn more about the show at howiipod.com. See you next time.