Christine Cyr Clouse: I'm Christine Zier Clouse. And you're listening to the Wirecutter show. Hey there. If you cook a lot, if you're trying to reduce the food waste in your regular garbage, or if you're concerned with being kinder to the environment, you may compost. And if you don't, maybe you aspire to. This episode, I'm talking with Wirecutter's sustainability editor, Katie Okamoto, about how to get started composting. We're talking about the best containers to use for gathering food scraps, what you can safely put in your compost, and strategies for making it easier and tidier. We'll also hear some voice memos from our staff who have compost piles in their backyards or elsewhere on their property. We'll also link to a guide we have for outdoor composting in the show notes. Katie, welcome back to the show.

Katie Okamoto: I'm so happy to be here.

Christine Cyr Clouse: We are talking about gathering food scraps for composting. There's so many different ways to compost, but today we're going to talk about what to do in your kitchen cuz I think this can be a little bit tricky for some people. First of all though, I want to ask, what is the argument to compost? Why should someone compost if they're not currently composting? Why should they consider doing it? What are the environmental impacts of composting essentially?

Katie Okamoto: Composting is basically a method to create a nutrient-rich material out of organic waste, so food scraps, right? And food waste is a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions, actually. What you're doing with composting is you're taking that food waste that would normally be bound for, say, a landfill, and turning it into this material that sequesters carbon and can be used to grow other produce. So, it kind of gets put back into the soil and into the nutrient cycle. In a landfill, what happens is that it will decompose, it'll release methane, which is a really potent greenhouse gas, and more food is coming into landfills in the United States than any other material in the solid waste stream, which is significant. Um on an individual level, the average American household can be tossing, you know, a couple pounds of food a week. I will add the caveat that if we're kind of looking at the big context of our individual carbon emissions, if that's something that you're concerned about, food waste is not the biggest contributor in your diet. It's actually cutting back on meat and dairy. But, composting and reducing food waste in general is a really powerful thing that we can all do as individuals, and a lot of municipalities are now requiring, you know, in Los Angeles, where I live, and in New York as well, they're now requiring a lot of households to put green waste, as it's called, into the municipal composting system to reduce the emissions from food waste.

Christine Cyr Clouse: I think that's so interesting to think about the the bigger impact, because various people compost for different reasons. Like, I have family members who compost just because they don't want all that in their regular garbage. It means they have to take their garbage out less, but just thinking about your overall impact on the planet, it's obviously important. I want to talk a little bit about the options if you don't have the option to just take out your scraps to a garbage can in front of your home. But, before we get into the options, we actually have a voice memo from our colleague who uses a local service that comes and picks up her compost. Let's listen.

Ann Marie Conty: Hello, I'm Ann Marie Conty, deputy editor at Wirecutter, and we use a commercial composting service. We used to backyard compost, but now we really like the service because we can include things like meat or animal bones, things that you really don't want to put in a backyard compost cuz it takes a long time to break down or because you don't want to attract pests like, I don't know, bears. We really love it. They come weekly, they pick up all of our food scraps, and then every few months we get a bag of compost in return. And it's just been really great. So, there might be one in your area. I would encourage you to check it out. The cost vary depending on what service you have, but we find it to be uh something that we can absolutely budget for.

Christine Cyr Clouse: So, Ann Marie just spoke about a private company that does this pickup service that she signed on for. For other people who don't have municipal pickup or don't have access to a private service like this, what are some options that they could look into for composting?

Katie Okamoto: Yeah, it's easiest potentially to drop off. You could certainly look for a community garden if you happen to have those in your area. Sometimes those are available and you can bring compost even to the farmers market if that's available to you. So, even if you don't have municipal composting through your city or town, sometimes there are options to not have to do the composting yourself. But, a lot of people do find composting at home rewarding. There are a lot of resources about various methods of composting, but they very broadly can break down into inside or outside. That's number one. So, if you have space in your yard or you have a yard to begin with, which I don't, there are backyard composting options that might look like creating a pile where you bury food scraps and keep them covered with a layer of soil. It might be using a bin that's above ground. There are also these above ground tumblers that kind of make the mixing a little bit easier. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of these methods, but there's also ways that you can actually compost inside at a smaller scale, and that might seem a little strange, but Hiroko Tabuchi, who covers climate for the New York Times, has written about having a box method in her apartment in New York City. So, this is a method where you put food scraps into a cardboard box, mix it with browns, or you know, sort of drier organic material, and that is actually a way of making compost slowly in your own home. It actually doesn't have a smell if you mix it frequently enough. Some people also get into worm bins, but that's a little bit higher maintenance and a bigger commitment for home use. So, yeah, I think there's actually a plethora of options that you can consider depending on your lifestyle, your amount of space that's available to you, and the amount of fresh fruit and produce that you're going through on a daily or weekly basis.

Christine Cyr Clouse: That's good to know that there are lots and lots of options if you are really committed to composting and you don't have that drop-off method in the front of your home. So, I am so curious about this one. Is there a general rule about what you can and can't put into a compost bin? Does it just depend on where you live and the compost method you're using?

Katie Okamoto: Yeah, I mean, certainly on a municipal level, if you're doing pick-up in a green bin, or you're dropping off to, say, a community garden or a farmer's market, they will have rules that you can check, and they often will prohibit certain items. It really depends on what their composting method is. If you're composting at home, it does a little bit depend on your circumstances. I've spoken with sources. Cass Marchettos is one person who's like a composting expert here in LA. She maintains that if it's organic, meaning made of previously living material, that it's compostable technically, but there are certain things that you may want to avoid either because they're more likely to attract pests or because it can just take a lot longer and require more monitoring of the heat in your compost pile. So, avoiding things like meat, dairy, bread, things that are like sugary, but generally a good rule of thumb is that you want to have a mixture of what they call greens, so think lettuce, apples, basically produce that's fresh, and browns, so things like dry leaves, yard waste, even torn up pieces of paper. And this mixture will allow for the kind of ideal moisture levels and nutrient levels for the microorganisms that create compost to thrive and do their magic. And I will say one thing that helps is prepping your inputs. What that means is chopping up and preparing your food scraps so that they're smaller. That can really help to prevent just like huge hunks of food from sitting in a compost pile for months or even longer than that. It'll prolong the composting process, but it may also attract animals. So, if you chop it up, it's kind of like chewing, right? When you chew your food, it helps you digest. When you chop up the greens, the fruits, whatever it is that you're putting into the compost pile in your yard, you're helping the process of breaking it down. We have another tip from one of our colleagues who composts in her backyard about something else to keep out of your compost. Let's listen.

Rose Maura Lorre: Hi, this is Rose Lorey. I'm a senior staff writer and I've been very thrilled to write a bunch of stories for Wirecutter about composting over the years. Please remember that any consumable good that's labeled or certified as compostable, a dog poop bag, cutlery made out of plant-based plastic, what have you, is not compostable in a home composting setup. No matter what kind of DIY setup you have, it's almost definitely not going to generate enough heat for long enough to fully break down those materials. A large-scale commercial or industrial composting facility can sustain temperatures as high as 160 or 165° F for days or weeks on end, but a small backyard compost pile probably won't ever get that hot, and if it does, it won't stay that way long enough. I am likewise not thrilled to tell you that something like a compostable fork that's made out of bioplastics likely won't be accepted in your local recycling, although you should check with your municipality to make sure of that. So, opt for reusable cutlery and similar products as much as you can, and even if it's existentially painful for you to do so, please dispose of used compostable dog poop bags in the regular trash.

Christine Cyr Clouse: Katie, you wrote a guide to the best compost bins for collecting food scraps in the kitchen. You and I worked on this piece a long time ago, and you've been updating it, and because of this piece that you worked on, I actually stopped using the compost bin I was using in my kitchen, which was like a plastic bin with a lid, and I transitioned to using a big metal mixing bowl, because it was easier to empty, and I feel like you gave me permission to do this. What is your advice for picking a compost bin that you're using in your kitchen?

Katie Okamoto: Um so, these kinds of buckets or vessels are ways of collecting food waste as you're cooking and then sort of stashing it or stowing it until you decant that vessel into either your backyard composting system or a green bin or taking it, you know, wherever you take it. I'm so happy to hear that you changed to a bowl because I think the takeaway from testing compost buckets for a home storage is really that you don't need something that's marketed for composting specifically. Anything works. There are really so few barriers to collecting the food that you're prepping. For me, a wide-mouthed vessel like a mixing bowl is just more intuitive. I feel like I can scrape my cutting board uh more easily into that vessel. But some people really like having something that has a lid. Of course, if you have a mixing bowl, you can always place a plate on it or put some cloth over it to keep it contained. But lids, some of them have like a carbon filter that helps manage odors. I've found and I I live in LA, I don't have central air conditioning. It gets really hot in the summer and I've found that really the best way to reduce smells or, you know, prevent fruit flies is there's two things, right? First is try not to put a lot of produce in there. Like try not to waste food. So, reducing food waste will reduce the amount of compost-bound produce you need to deal with. But also just emptying that vessel frequently enough. It depends on where you are, but I find that I have to empty it like every day. And instead of just kind of keeping it and letting it acquire that kind of liquidy-ness. Another method is putting it in the freezer if you have the space.

Christine Cyr Clouse: Ooh, I like that one. And we actually have a tip from one of our staffers about this exact method. Let's listen.

Antara: This is Antara. I'm a writer on the kitchen team. And my tip, especially if you live in a small space or don't compost in your own home, is to freeze your food scraps. So, I collect veggie peels, egg shells, other compostable food scraps in a gallon food storage bag throughout the week in the freezer. And that way when it's full, it usually takes me about a week or two, I can drop it off at my neighborhood compost site. And then this way I don't have to worry about any smells or take up any counter or floor space with a compost bin.

Christine Cyr Clouse: Okay, so I think this is a great option. Katie, what would you recommend using in the freezer? Antara is using a bag. Is this the best way to do it? What are your best tips here?

Katie Okamoto: Yeah, of course it depends on your freezer and it depends on what you keep in your freezer on a regular basis. So, the freezer is actually a really great tool in the kitchen to reduce food waste in general because you can freeze extras and then that reduces the amount of stuff you're having to toss or compost. But, I do really like a bag because bags are squishable. So, they can kind of fit into the door, they can fit into weird nooks and crannies. You know, I mentioned that I use a mixing bowl like you Christine, but I sometimes will kind of do a double method where I'll like collect the scraps while I'm cooking and then I'll toss them into a bag in the freezer for emptying later on. So, it's not just sitting there. I know other staffers use compost bins that they find that just like fit really neatly inside. I've also used like a Cambro before which they're used in restaurant kitchens a lot. They're like a a plastic kind of Tupperware type bin and because they have really nice tight right angles, they don't take up a lot of space. They're more efficient. But, anything is good. I do really recommend a bag, you know, don't overthink it. You can also then tote that bag um to wherever you're going. You don't have to hold something that's super cold. Is there anything else to think about if you're any kind of bin that you're going to use, whether it has a lid or not? What what should you be thinking about here? Yeah, I think a lot of it does come down to knowing thyself, as they say. So, if you use a lot of produce, you want something probably that's a little bit bigger. I think about the opening of the vessel. So, I want something that's not so narrow and tiny that scooping scraps into it feels tedious and finicky. I also look for vessels that have a smoother interior, don't have a lot of kind of weird edges or molded plastic pieces that can be harder to clean out because I do recommend that you forego a compost liner. So, things like that, kind of like the practicalities of how are you going to clean this thing? I do prefer compost bins that are reusable, obviously, meaning that like you already have them in your home. But, if you're going to go out and buy one, stainless steel is going to last a lot longer in the long run than plastic. So, that's just something to consider.

Christine Cyr Clouse: We're going to take a quick break, and when we're back, Katie, we're going to talk about some tips for keeping compost neat and odor-free. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Katie, I want to return to something that we talked about in the first half of this episode, whether or not it's okay to use a plastic bag in your compost bin. I know from editing you that you don't love this option, but I do know that my neighbors and and even I've kind of gone back to using a biodegradable bag because it just makes it easier to take out into the compost bin. What are the pros and cons? What should people be thinking about if they're using a liner in their compost?

Katie Okamoto: Yeah, I mean primarily from a practical standpoint, you should make sure that the compost system that you are feeding into will accept these compostable liners. They also are not necessary. I understand the sort of desire to make it easier to tote things and I also think mentally like it feels cleaner. I have found in my own personal experience that they get sort of like waterlogged quite quickly and they end up being drippy anyway. So, rather than doing that, you might reuse just a straight-up plastic bag or even a paper bag and just use that and empty it and reuse it multiple times rather than going out and buying compostable liners. If you are going to get one, you should look for the BPI logo on the product. So, that stands for Biodegradable Products Institute. This certification, it's from a nonprofit organization that issues a compostability certification that's considered the gold standard in the United States. They prohibit the addition of PFAS and they just have certain requirements that it's going to completely and safely compost in municipal and commercial facilities. And just know, I would point you to Rose's reporting here too on on Wirecutter's site. She's done a lot of research into this. There are often petrochemicals that are used to mix into the plant-based plastics for these bags to help them be pliable, to give them a little bit of give. So, there's just a few caveats in using these bags.

Christine Cyr Clouse: Okay, we talked a little bit before the break about ways to reduce odor. Freezing is one way. Emptying it often, I think you mentioned. But, is there anything else that will help you reduce odor?

Katie Okamoto: You can also try using a bin that has a built-in carbon filter. Some of the bins that we recommend on our site have that, but they're they're fairly common and those filters can be washed and reused a couple more times than they claim. Those still need to be brought out and dumped, though, to manage odor ultimately. Like, that filter won't preserve you in the depths of August for weeks and weeks. You you still do need to empty the compost bucket. And I would say that if there's anybody listening who feels hesitant about composting and it's because of the odor factor, it actually can help reduce smells in your kitchen because you're taking the stuff that decomposes out of your kitchen rather than letting it sit in a hot trash can with your other waste. You may actually find that it reduces smells in the long run.

Christine Cyr Clouse: Ooh, I like that. Okay, I think we have to talk about cleaning compost bins because these can get gross. So, we have some advice from one of our colleague, Kira Murray Johnson. Let's listen.

Kira Murray Johnson: Hi, I'm Kira. I'm a writer on the kitchen team at Wirecutter and I wrote our guide to cleaning trash cans and compost bins. One of the best ways to avoid a stinky compost bin is regular maintenance. Take your compost out regularly, spray the bin down with a 1:1 mix of white vinegar and water, and always let the bin dry before using it again. If you can, it also helps to avoid adding warm food scraps to the bin.

Christine Cyr Clouse: Okay, Kitty, anything you would add to Kira's advice here?

Katie Okamoto: Yeah, I mean, if the bin is dishwasher safe, you can also throw it in the dishwasher. Old school washing by hand using dish soap and water also works. You just want to try to get it to dry completely before you start to reuse it. If it's a bigger bin, like sometimes people use like big buckets if they really have a lot of produce, same thing kind of goes for that as well. But yeah, unfortunately, sometimes it is just a matter of cleaning regularly.

Christine Cyr Clouse: Ugh, that's always the answer, right? I know. Okay, one last category of products I want to talk about. What about countertop composters? These are also called indoor food recyclers. What's the deal with these?

Katie Okamoto: These were advertised a couple years ago as countertop composters and they've actually seem to have pivoted more to food recyclers like you mentioned, Christine. And the reason for that is because what they produce is not technically compost. It's dehydrated, broken-down food scraps. That's not a bad thing per se, but it is not compost. It's just food scrap material that is drier. So, these are countertop electronic devices that will take food scraps and they'll dehydrate them. They'll make this material. One advantage to this for some people is that it makes the volume of the food waste smaller. And these dehydrated food scraps can either be added to a compost pile. They reduce the volume of your trash. You can kind of save them until you add them to home composting and other methods. But, they are not themselves compost. And so, they're not doing the same kind of carbon sequestration off the bat. You're not going to be able to add them to get the benefits of compost for plants and and your garden. You know, we tested these a few years ago and we came out feeling like they were not worth the squeeze. They're expensive. They if you even they'll eventually go kaput and then it's e-waste. And when I say expensive, they're often like hundreds of dollars. But for some people, maybe it's worth it. All right, we've got one more tip from our colleague about a favorite way of dealing with food waste. Let's take a quick listen.

Samantha Schoech: Hi, this is Samantha Shay. I'm a gifts writer at Wirecutter. And for the first 10 years of my twins' life, we kept chickens in our backyard in San Francisco and had this whole compost circle of life thing going whereby we used the big plastic composter and then used all that beautiful compost that came out to fertilize our veggie beds and then grew veggies and fed them to our children who then did not eat them and we'd would use their waste and scraps to feed the chickens and then the chickens would make us eggs and the whole beautiful circle of life would start all over again. The whole thing just made me feel a lot better about all the food my kids wasted.

Christine Cyr Clouse: I love that. Well, Katie, thank you so much for joining today.

Katie Okamoto: Thank you so much for having me. I hope everyone starts composting.

Christine Cyr Clouse: Yes. The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Garen and produced by Abigail Kiehl. Engineering support from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman. Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano, Rowan Nemesto, Catherine Anderson, and Diane Wong. Cliff Leavy is Wirecutter's deputy publisher and general manager. Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor-in-chief. I'm Christine Sieur Closec. Thanks for listening.