From the New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitroof. This is the daily.: 这里是《纽约时报》，我是娜塔莉·基特罗夫（Natalie Kitroeff）。这是《The Daily》。
英文原文
From the New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitroof. This is the daily.American public schools are in the middle of a crisis. There aren't enough students to fill their classrooms.: 美国公立学校正处于一场危机之中。没有足够的学生来坐满教室。
英文原文
American public schools are in the middle of a crisis. There aren't enough students to fill their classrooms.In some cities, enrollments have been shrinking so dramatically that officials say they have no choice but to close schools on mass.: 在一些城市，入学人数缩减得如此剧烈，以至于官员们表示除了大规模关闭学校别无选择。
英文原文
In some cities, enrollments have been shrinking so dramatically that officials say they have no choice but to close schools on mass.Today, my colleague Sarah Murvos on one city's radical plan to save its public schools and the parents who think it will only doom them.: 今天，我的同事萨拉·默沃什（Sarah Mervosh）将讲述一座城市为了挽救公立学校而制定的激进计划，以及那些认为这只会毁掉学校的家长们。
英文原文
Today, my colleague Sarah Murvos on one city's radical plan to save its public schools and the parents who think it will only doom them.It's Wednesday, November 11th.: 今天是11月11日，星期三。
英文原文
It's Wednesday, November 11th.Okay. This is Michael Simon Johnson, daily producer. I'm here with New York Times reporter Sarah Murvash here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.: 好的。我是《The Daily》的制作人迈克尔·西蒙·约翰逊（Michael Simon Johnson）。我和《纽约时报》记者萨拉·默沃什（Sarah Mervosh）现在在宾夕法尼亚州匹兹堡。
英文原文
Okay. This is Michael Simon Johnson, daily producer. I'm here with New York Times reporter Sarah Murvash here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.嗨。
英文原文
>> Hi.我们现在在阿森纳（Arsenal）中小学门外。
英文原文
>> We are outside of a middle and elementary school Arsenal.是的，今天是匹兹堡开学的第一天，而在这个学年末，匹兹堡公立学校系统中的一批学校计划被关闭。阿森纳小学就是其中之一。所以这算是该建筑以目前这种状态迎来的最后一个开学日，明年一切都会改变。
英文原文
>> Yes, today is the first day of school in Pittsburgh and at the end of this school year, a bunch of schools in Pittsburgh public schools are slated to close. Arsenal's elementary school is one of them. And so this is sort of the last first day of school at this building as it is today and next year everything is changing.你好。暑假过得怎么样？
英文原文
>> Hello. How was summer?太棒了。
英文原文
>> Awesome.太棒了。很高兴回来。
英文原文
>> Awesome. Glad to be back.嘿。
英文原文
>> Hey.等不及要去课间休息了。
英文原文
>> Can't wait for recess.是啊。
英文原文
>> Yeah.很好。你好。第一天开学兴奋吗？
英文原文
>> Good. Hello. Are you excited for the first day?不兴奋。
英文原文
>> No.不再兴奋了。
英文原文
>> Not no more.噢，我很兴奋。见到你们太高兴了。怎么啦？我们新升入五年级的同学们。我觉得她想——你想对他们说什么？
英文原文
>> Oh, I am. I'm so happy to see you. What's up? Our new fifth graders. I think she wants to What do you want to say to them?我第一天上学。
英文原文
>> My first date.你——你有孩子在这里上学吗？
英文原文
>> Do Do you have a child who goes here?有的，她7岁。
英文原文
>> Yes, she is 7 years old.你喜欢阿森纳学校吗？
英文原文
>> You like Arsenal?喜欢，我很喜欢这里。阿森纳。
英文原文
>> Yes, I love it. Arsenal.你——呃，你喜欢阿森纳学校的什么？
英文原文
>> What uh what do you like about Arsenal?我喜欢科学、阅读、数学、美术、科学，还有英式足球和橄榄球。
英文原文
>> So, I like science, reading, math, art, science, and soccer and football.听起来几乎涵盖了学校的所有事情。那你知道这所学校将在学年末关闭吗？
英文原文
>> That sounds like most of school. And do you know that the school is going to be closing at the end of the year?是的，今年就要关了。我很难过，因为她所有的朋友都在这里，而且——嗯，但我不知道。
英文原文
>> Yeah, it's closing this year. I'm sad because she has all the friends in here and um but I don't know.我们实际上特别需要这所学校。我女儿有自闭症。我们很担心。会有足够的人员吗？能达到足够的目标吗？
英文原文
>> We actually need this school in particular. My daughter's autistic. We're worried. Is there going to be enough staff? Is there going to be enough goals met?而且你还不知道她明年要去哪里上学，对吗？
英文原文
>> And you don't know where she's going to go to school next year. Is that right?对，我目前还不知道。
英文原文
>> No, I don't know yet.在这里21年了。社会研究老师。当年这里还只是一所初中时我就在这里了。当时我们每个年级有五个班。现在我们每个年级只有两个班了。所以——
英文原文
>> Been here for 21 years. social studies teacher. So I was here when it's just a middle school. We had five sections of each grade. Now we have two sections of each grade. So所以你亲眼见证了衰落。
英文原文
>> So you've you've watched the decline.是的。我在这里见证了明显的下降。我是说，这整所学校曾经只是初中。现在是一半初中，一半小学。
英文原文
>> Yeah. I've been here is a solid decline. I mean this whole school used to be just a middle school. Now it's half middle, half elementary.所以你还不知道明年会在哪里工作。
英文原文
>> So you don't know where you're going to be working next year.我甚至不知道自己是否还能有一份工作，因为有这么多学校要关闭，这实在太难了。
英文原文
>> I don't even know if I'm going to have a job because there's so many schools that are closing and it's just so tough.这真是苦乐参半，是一个时代的终结。有一种悲伤的感觉，但同时我也尽量不去往那方面想，因为——嗯，我们希望这最后一年是非常特别的一年。
英文原文
>> It's bittersweet and it's end of an air. There's a level of sadness, but also like I'm not letting my mind get there because um we want this last year to be one that's super special.开学第一天快乐。这是我们轮换周期的第一天，我们有美术课、体育课、图书馆课和科学课。今天是星期一。你好，星期一。你是一个全新的开始，新的一页，一个闪闪发光的绝佳机会。确保你们今天展现出光彩。
萨拉，欢迎回到节目中。
英文原文
>> Happy first day of school. It is day one of our cycle when we have art, gym, library, and science. Today is Monday. Hello, Monday. You are a fresh start, a new page, and a beautiful opportunity to shine. Make sure you're shining today.Sarah, welcome back to the show.
谢谢你。
英文原文
>> Thank you.全美公立学校生源缩减危机
那么，我们直接切入正题。请帮我们了解一下我们在这里谈论的问题规模——当今公立学校面临的入学人数问题，以及为什么这个问题很重要，或者说为什么应该引起我们的关注。
提供几个数据：大约自2014年以来，在过去的十年里，全美30个州的K-12公立学校入学人数都在下降。这是一个影响许多大型学区的问题。在过去的十年中，洛杉矶公立学校的入学人数下降了20%。休斯顿下降了约17%，芝加哥下降了17%。
英文原文
>> So, let's dive right in. Help us understand the scope of what we're talking about here, the enrollment problem in public schools today, and why this problem matters or should matter to us. Well, just to give you a few stats, since about 2014, over the last decade, enrollment in K through2 public schools in the country has fallen in 30 states. And it's a problem that's affecting a lot of major school districts. So, over the last decade, Los Angeles public schools enrollment down 20%. Houston down about 17%, Chicago 17%.天哪。
英文原文
>> Jeez,达拉斯下降了13%，费城下降了10%。我还可以继续列举下去。有多少孩子去上学之所以重要，原因之一是学校和学区获得的资助取决于他们拥有的学生数量。他们从政府获得资金，这些资金都是按每个学生来分配的。在某些情况下，如果学区流失了一名学生，比如说流失到了特许学校（charter schools），学区实际上还必须自掏腰包支付费用。因此，这对学校会产生非常真实的财务后果。而且我认为人们在管理学校时没有意识到的一点是，如果你的学校规模缩减了比如20%，虽然学生变少了，但通常仍然需要相同数量的教师，因为班级规模并没有缩小到可以直接取消一个班级的程度。呃，比如，你仍然需要一名校长。你有一个完整的建筑设施需要运转。因此成本并不一定会随着学生人数按比例下降，对吧？而且当你开始流失孩子时，你也开始流失资金。我想这意味着你不得不开始在某些方面做出削减的选择。你必须削减某些东西，对吧？是的。在过去一年左右的时间里，我们确实看到很多学区开始正视这个问题以及痛苦的预算决定：削减校车路线、削减代课教师、精简总部办公室，而且他们越来越多地在做一件具有政治爆炸性的事情，那就是决定是否关闭学校。而这看起来像什么？那个具有政治爆炸性的决策——
英文原文
>> Dallas 13%, Philadelphia 10%. I can go on and on and on. And one reason it matters how many kids are going to school is because schools and school districts get funding based on the number of students that they have. So they get money from the government and it's all allocated per student. And in some cases districts have to actually pay if they lose a student to say charter schools. So there are real financial consequences for schools. And one thing I think people don't realize about running schools is if your school shrinks by say 20%. You have fewer students, but you still often need the same number of teachers because the class sizes haven't shrunk so much that you can just eliminate a class. Um, you still need a principal, for example. You have a whole building to run. So the costs don't necessarily scale down with the number of students, right? And as you start losing kids, you start losing money. I'm assuming that means you're starting to have to make some choices about what to cut. You have to cut something, right? Yes. And over the last year or so, we are really seeing a lot of districts starting to confront this problem and painful budget decisions, cutting bus routes, cutting substitute teachers, cutting the central office, and more and more they're doing something that is politically explosive, which is deciding whether to close schools. And what does that look like? that politically explosive decision-m我认为关闭学校是教育界最不受欢迎的做法之一。没有人喜欢它。从来没有人希望这种事发生在自己的学校。当我在全国各学区观察这场辩论展开时，我不断看到同样的抗争在上演，那就是家长们说“我们不希望这样”，而学区则说“我们必须采取行动”。但除此以外，还有另一个问题在起作用，那就是公平问题。因为美国的学校在种族和阶层上相当隔离。如今依然如此。尤其是在这些拥有众多儿童、同一学校系统中有着很多不同类型儿童的大城市里。当你开始问：我们要关学校吗？我们要关哪些学校？你实际上是在问：谁会受到影响？哪些孩子被优先考虑？我们将为谁服务？很有意思。这么说来，生源减少和资源受限最终迫使人们去面对这些关于种族、关于阶层、关于他们希望学校系统为谁服务的大问题，
英文原文
>> I think closing schools is one of the most unpopular things you can do in education. No one likes it. No one ever wants it to happen to their school. As I was watching this debate play out in districts across the country, I kept seeing the same fight happening, which is parents saying we don't want this and districts saying we have to do something. But on top of all of that, there's also this other question at play, which is about equality. Because our schools in America are quite segregated by race and class. They still are today. And especially in these big cities with lots of kids and lots of different kinds of kids in the same school system. When you start to ask, are we going to close schools? Which schools are we going to close? You're actually asking who's going to be affected? Which kids get prioritized? Who are we going to serve? Interesting. So, declining enrollment and constrained resources end up forcing people to engage with these really big questions it sounds like about race, about class, about who they want their school systems to serve,匹兹堡的人口变迁与关校背景
对吧？而在我的家乡匹兹堡，他们在这个进程上实际上比其他一些地方走得更远一点。因此，我想看看这到底是如何展开的，以及在匹兹堡到底呈现出什么样子？先交代一下背景，匹兹堡是一个人口几十年来一直在减少的地方。匹兹堡市的人口在20世纪50年代达到顶峰。钢铁工业的崛起。我的祖父当时就在匹兹堡的钢铁厂工作。那基本上是一个有着大量天主教家庭的城市，爱尔兰、意大利、波兰移民的工薪阶层家庭。他们有许多孩子。公立学校系统蓬勃发展。在那个时候选择并不多。你差不多就是去上公立学校。也许你去上天主教学校，也就仅此而已了。
但在过去的70多年里，情况发生了改变。人口一直在减少。尤其是过去十年左右，
英文原文
>> right? And in my hometown of Pittsburgh, they were actually a little further along in the process than some other places. And so, I wanted to see how does that actually play out and what has it looked like in Pittsburgh? Well, just for some context, Pittsburgh is a place where the population has been on the decline for many decades. The population in the city of Pittsburgh peaked in the 1950s. The rise of the steel industry. My grandfather was working in steel mills in Pittsburgh at this time. It was basically a city with like lots of Catholic families, Irish, Italian, Polish immigrant, working-class families. They had lots of kids. The public school system is thriving. And back then there weren't tons of options. You kind of went to the public school. Maybe you went to the Catholic school and that's about it.But that has changed over the last 70ome years. The population has declined. And over the last decade or so in particular,
最初因冠状病毒而临时关闭学校的措施，对宾夕法尼亚州的家庭来说一直延长到了该学年末。和全国许多其他地方一样，匹兹堡公立学校在疫情期间关闭了很长时间。
英文原文
>> what started as a temporary school closure due to the Corona virus extended through the end of the academic year for Pennsylvania families. Like lots of other places around the country, Pittsburgh public schools were closed for a long time during the pandemic.自疫情爆发以来，匹兹堡公立学校总共只设法提供了几周的面授教学。与我交谈过的家长们表示，他们对学区失去了信心，正在用脚投票。
英文原文
>> Since the beginning of the pandemic, Pittsburgh public schools have managed to provide only a few weeks of in-person instruction. Parents I spoke with say they've lost confidence in the district and are voting with their feet.他们确实流失了相当数量的孩子。
英文原文
>> They did lose a good number of kids.网络特许学校（cyber charter schools）的入学人数激增，使其接近饱和。
英文原文
>> Cyber charter schools are seeing an enrollment spike that has them approaching capacity.现在的选择更多了。有特许学校。有一些家庭教育（homeschooling）。一代女性选择推迟生育或完全不生孩子——
英文原文
>> There's more choice. There's charter schools. There's a little bit of homeschooling. It's a generation of women choosing to wait or not have children at all are此外，整个美国普遍存在人们生孩子变少的事实。生育率在2007年见顶，从那时起基本上一直在下降。如果你算一下账，2007年出生的婴儿在2025年高中毕业。因此，突然之间，这些孩子就离开了公立学校系统。现在学区正面临着未来学生越来越少的可能性。嗯。
英文原文
>> and then there's just the fact that people are having fewer kids in the US broadly. The fertility rate peaked in 2007 and it's pretty much been declining since then. And if you kind of do the math, babies that were born in 2007 graduated high school in 2025. And so all of a sudden those kids are out of the public school system. And now districts are facing down this possibility of having fewer and fewer kids going forward. H.在过去的十年里，匹兹堡在所有这些因素的综合作用下，失去了大约25%的生源，这规模太庞大了。是的。这是必须面对的非常现实的事情。
那么匹兹堡选择如何去应对它，如何应对这个生源问题呢？
英文原文
>> And over the last decade in Pittsburgh, that meant that all of this combined, they've lost about 25% of their enrollment, which is just huge. Yeah. This is something very real that has to be contended with.And how does Pittsburgh choose to contend with it, with this enrollment problem?
匹兹堡重组方案与取消磁校的争议
嗯，他们决定做的事情实际上是相当具有争议的，甚至超出了学校关闭的常规争议。他们决定不仅要尝试解决入学率危机，而且还试图利用这个契机来彻底重组学校系统，并尝试解决学校系统中的一些不平等现象。怎么做？怎么做呢？你必须考虑谁在匹兹堡公立学校就读。学生群体中大约三分之二属于经济弱势群体。这些主要是来自较贫困家庭的学生。大约一半的学生是黑人。大约三分之一的学生是白人。还有较小比例的西裔和亚裔学生。在这个方案中，他们并不只是提议关闭生源最不足的学校或表现最差的学校，部分原因在于他们不希望学校系统中最为脆弱的孩子——主要是低收入或黑人孩子——来承担该方案的全部负担。因此，他们所做的是还提议重组学校、重新划分年级段、在全市范围内重新划定学校学区边界线，这意味着他们还将关闭例如一所针对资优生（gifted and talented）的学校，以及一所在较富裕城区的高表现小学，这两所学校所服务的白人家庭比例都更高。
但该方案中最具争议的部分之一，是他们将在小学阶段取消磁校（magnet schools），并在初中阶段大幅缩减磁校。请具体说说磁校究竟是什么。磁校是学区内的公立学校。它们是匹兹堡公立学校系统的一部分，但你可以通过抽签来申请入学。所以你大致上可以住在城市的任何地方，并且可以申请这些学校。磁校通常具有某种特色专长，比如外语，或者艺术与表演，或者科学与技术，这对家庭来说可能很有吸引力。因此，他们这样做确实很有意思，而且关于这将对学校系统产生什么影响存在很多争论，因为一些人觉得磁校是匹兹堡公立学校系统最好的方面之一。家庭拥有选择权。它们实际上吸引了来自不同社区的人，因此可以形成一个在经济和种族上更加融合的环境。但另一些人觉得磁校有点像在学校系统内部进行“白人群飞”（white flight）的一种方式，家庭不需要去他们的邻里学校（neighborhood schools）。他们可以选择去上磁校。
英文原文
>> Well, what they decide to do is actually pretty controversial, even beyond the regular controversies of school closures. They decide to not only try to solve their enrollment crisis, but they also are trying to use this moment to revamp the school system and try to fix some of the inequalities in the school system. How? How? So, so you have to think about who goes to the Pittsburgh public schools. The student body is about 2thirds economically disadvantaged. These are largely from poorer families. About half of the students are black. About a third of students are white. and there's a smaller share of Hispanic and Asian students. And in this plan, they don't only propose closing the most underenrolled schools or the the lowest performing schools in part because they don't want the most vulnerable kids in their school system, kids who are mostly lower income or black to bear the full burden of this plan. And so what they do is they also propose reconfiguring schools, reconfiguring grade bands, redrawing school boundary lines across the city, which means that they also are closing, for example, a school for gifted and talented kids, a high-erforming elementary school in a wealthier part of town, both of which serve higher shares of white families.But one of the most controversial parts of this plan is that they're getting rid of magnet schools at the elementary school level and they're dramatically scaling back from them at the middle school level. And just say what magnet schools actually are. So magnet schools are public schools in the school district. They're part of the Pittsburgh public school system, but you can apply to them through a lottery. So you can live anywhere in the city more or less and you can apply to these schools. often magnet schools have some sort of specialty like a foreign language or arts and performing or science and technology and that can be a draw for families. And so the fact that they're doing this is really interesting and there's a lot of debate about what this is going to do to the school system because some people feel like magnet schools are one of the best things about the Pittsburgh public school systems. Families have options. they actually draw people from different neighborhoods and so it can be a a more economically and racially integrated environment. But some other people feel like magnet schools are kind of a way of doing white flight within the school system where families don't have to go to their neighborhood schools. They can do this magnet school option.
所以通过取消磁校，学区等于是在说：我们要拿掉那个选择杠杆。我们要强制你们回到你们的邻里学校，并且我们要投入更多资源并投资于我们所有的邻里学校。但这确实感觉像是一个相当大胆的举措——为了使这个系统更加平等，去关闭这些实际上并不一定生源不足、且许多家庭专门选择送孩子去的学校。是的。当几年前这个过程开始时，几乎立刻引起了大量的强烈情绪和争论。
英文原文
>> And so by getting rid of magnets, the district is saying we're going to take away that lever of choice. we're going to compel you to go back to your neighborhood school and we're going to put more resources and invest in all of our neighborhood schools. But that does feel like a pretty bold move to like in the interest of equalizing this system, close these schools that aren't actually necessarily underenrolled and are places that many families are specifically choosing to send their kids to. Yes. And when this process started a few years back, almost immediately you have lots of feelings about this, lots of debate.女士们先生们，晚上好，欢迎参加2024年11月25日匹兹堡公立学校公共教育委员会会议。
英文原文
>> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the November 25th, 2024 Board of Public Education for Pittsburgh public.于是，学校董事会开始将这项提案开放征求公众意见。
英文原文
>> So, the school board starts opening this proposal up for comment.2025年7月30日，星期三，特别——2026年5月26日——
英文原文
>> The Wednesday, July 30th, 2025, special May 26, 2026,一场又一场的公开听证会接连举行。每位发言者有三分钟的发言时间。
英文原文
>> and there's public hearing after public hearing. Each speaker has three minutes to speak.我们是家长、教师和学生。
英文原文
>> We're parents and teachers and students.我的名字是埃里卡·吉德利（Erica Gidley）。我是一名家长和社区成员。
英文原文
>> My name is Erica Gidley. I'm a parent and community member.我也是一名匹兹堡居民和拥有33年教龄的资深教师。
英文原文
>> I'm also a Pittsburgh resident and a 33-year veteran teacher.你们好，我是匹兹堡蒙特梭利学校（Pittsburgh Montessori）的孩子。
英文原文
>> Hello, I'm a child in Pittsburgh Monuri.我今晚再次来到这里，恳请各位在11月25日投反对票。
英文原文
>> I am back tonight to implore you all to vote no on November 25th.各种各样的人都站出来表达他们对这个方案的看法，以及这将如何影响他们、他们的家庭和他们的孩子。
英文原文
>> All sorts of people are coming out to say what they think of this plan and how it's going to affect them and their families and their kids.我的孩子们在家里为他们的学校哭泣。我不希望阿勒格尼（Allegheny）或曼彻斯特（Manchester）被关闭。
英文原文
>> My kids are at home crying about their schools. I don't want Alagany to be closed or Manchester.陈述所有不应该关闭学校的理由。
英文原文
>> Saying all the reasons why they shouldn't close schools.把学生搬去林登（Linden）不会让任何事情变好。事实上，这会让情况变得更糟。
英文原文
>> Moving it to Lynon makes nothing better. And a matter of fact, it makes things worse.许多人表示他们喜欢磁校项目。
英文原文
>> Many people say they like the magnet program.当我得知学区计划撤除所有磁校学生并将他们送回划片所属的划片学校时，我感到非常难过。如果我觉得我的所属划片学校能为我的孩子提供优质教育，我今天就不会站在这里了。
英文原文
>> I was deeply upset when I learned of the district plans to remove all magnet students and send them to their home schools. If I felt like my home school could provide a quality education for my child, I wouldn't be standing here today.资优项目和磁校项目毫不夸张地说是匹兹堡公立学校最优秀的部分。
英文原文
>> The gifted program and the magnet programs quite simply are the best thing about Pittsburgh public schools.我们为孩子选择磁校的原因之一，是因为它吸纳了来自全市各地的孩子。对我丈夫和我来说，重要的是我们的孩子能够与来自不同背景的孩子一起学习和成长。很多人表示，这种改变实际上可能会促使家庭完全离开公立学校系统。
英文原文
>> One of the reasons we chose a magnet school for our kids is because it includes kids from all over the city. It was important to me and my husband that our children would learn and grow up alongside kids from backgrounds different from their own. And many say this change could actually drive families away from the public school system entirely.当我们希望我们的孩子继续留在现址就读时，我们家长不应该被迫去寻找替代的网络学校或特许学校。
英文原文
>> We parents should not have to seek out alternative cyber or charter schools when we want our children to continue at their current locations.这只会加剧入学率低的问题，并阻止家庭搬到我们城市和社区或留下来。在我看来，所有这一切导致的不是有资源的家长融入公立学校，而是促使他们选择私立学校，从而延续生源和资金流失的恶性循环，
英文原文
>> This will only increase the problem for low enrollment and deter families from moving or staying in our city and the neighborhood. All of this, in my opinion, will lead not to resourced parents integrating into public schools, but to them choosing private schools, continuing the downward spiral of students and funding loss,而且他们对自己的诉求未被倾听感到愤怒。在你们开始与我们沟通之前，不要做出任何实质性改变。与我们合作。我们是来提供帮助的。
英文原文
>> and they're mad that they're not being listened to. Don't make any real changes until you start talking to us. Work with us. We are here to help.你们究竟在不在乎所听到的所有好论点？
英文原文
>> Do you even care about all the good arguments that you've heard?我们每个月都在竭尽全力呐喊。感谢您的证词。
英文原文
>> We are screaming at the top of our lungs every month. Thank you for your testimony.学区董事会的表决与决策逻辑
如今，这些站出来发言的家长很多是白人，并非全部，但他们前来的比例确实极不相称。而学校董事会中多数成员是黑人。在整个过程中，他们表示自己一直在倾听。
英文原文
>> Now, these parents who are coming out to talk, lots of them are white, not all of them are, but they do come out in disproportionate numbers. The school board is majority black. And throughout this entire process, they're saying they are listening.是的，大家都很沮丧。是的，做出改变很困难，但确实必须做出改变。必须改变。
英文原文
>> Yes, people are upset. Yes, change is difficult, but yes, change has to be made. It has to be made.大家都同意我们必须关闭校舍。但没有人愿意去挑选具体关哪些。我知道这很难。我也不想做这些事。
英文原文
>> Everybody agrees that we have to close buildings. Nobody wants to pick the buildings. I know it's hard. I don't want to do any of this.我们正在努力扩大覆盖面，使我们所有的学生都能接受目前只有少数学校能够享受到的相同教育。
而我是在为那些没有出来、没有在公开听证会上发声的人代言。
英文原文
>> We are trying to expand for all of our students to receive the same education that a few schools are getting right now.And I am speaking for those who have not come out who have not come out to speak at public hearing.
我始终密切关注我们学区面临最多挑战的孩子。如果我们以他们为中心，不再以拥有最多机会的孩子为中心，如果我们以面临最多挑战的孩子为中心，我们将建立一个更好的系统。
英文原文
>> I always keep a very clear eye on the kids who have the most challenges in our district. If we center them and we stop centering the kids who have the most opportunity, if we center the kids who have the most challenges, we will create a better system.韦斯先生，请唱票好吗？
英文原文
>> Mr. Weiss, can you please call the vote?巴克董事？
英文原文
>> Director Barker,赞成。
英文原文
>> yes.最终，在今年的五月，
英文原文
>> And finally, in May of this year,沃克博士？
英文原文
>> Dr. Walker,赞成。他们以6票赞成、2票反对、1名校董弃权的表决结果，决定关闭12所学校。
英文原文
>> yes. They vote 6 to2 with one school board member abstaining to close 12 schools.决议获得通过。
英文原文
>> The resolution's approved.谢谢大家。在进入通告环节之前，我现在想——
英文原文
>> Thank you all. Uh I would now like to before we move on to announcements学校的关闭将在本学年结束时进行。因此这是维持现状的最后一个学年，明年一切都将发生变化。所以这基本上已经到了紧要关头。
英文原文
>> and the closures will happen at the end of this school year. So this is the last school year of status quo and next year everything's going to change. So this is all coming to a head basically.是的。嗨，吉恩。嘿，萨拉，你好吗？
英文原文
>> Yes. Hi Jean. Hey Sarah, how are you?我很好。你能听到我说话吗？
英文原文
>> I'm good. Can you hear me?我听得很清楚。
英文原文
>> I can hear you perfectly.于是，我和主持所有这些会议的人进行了交谈，即学校董事会主席吉恩·沃克（Gene Walker），
英文原文
>> So, I talked to the guy who ran all of these meetings, the school board president, Jean Walker,目前担任第9区的学区董事，该区包括我们的上北区和西区街区。
英文原文
>> currently serving as the schoolboard director for district 9, which is our upper north side and West End neighborhoods.他就像匹兹堡以及宾夕法尼亚州广大地区的所有学校董事会成员一样，
英文原文
>> And he is like all school board members in Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania more broadly,他是没有薪水的。他是以志愿者的身份任职的。他是经选举产生的，但他不领薪水。我想了解，为什么要承担这项工作？为什么要让自己顶在风口浪尖？为什么要承受这样的指责？为了理解这一点，你必须先了解这个人是谁。
英文原文
>> he's unpaid. He's there in a volunteer capacity. He is elected, but he's not paid. And I wanted to understand like why do this? Why put yourself on the line? Why be yelled at like this? So, in order to to understand that, you kind of have to understand who this guy is.是的。我毕业于一所前身为皮博迪高中（Peabody High School）的学校，时间是在90年代中期的1994年。
英文原文
>> Yeah. I graduated from a school formerly known as Peabody High School uh in the mid '90s, 1994.吉恩·沃克今年50岁。他是黑人。他在匹兹堡出生并长大。他有两个孩子在这个学校系统上学。他的儿子现在是一名公立学校教师。
英文原文
>> So, Gene Walker is 50. He's black. He was born and raised in Pittsburgh. He has two kids that went through the school system. And his son is now a public school teacher.呃，我儿子目前就在我当年毕业的同一座校舍里当老师，只是学校换了个名字。因此他对匹兹堡公立学校系统投入了大量的个人情感。但吉恩·沃克也告诉我，他和他的孩子们都经历过匹兹堡公立学校系统中没有最扎实的学术课程的情况，并且在进入大学后承受了由此带来的后果。
英文原文
>> Uh, and my son is currently a teacher at that same building, just a different name that I graduated from. So he has a lot of personal investment in the Pittsburgh public school system. But also Gene Walker told me that both he and his kids had this experience of not having the most robust academic offerings in the Pittsburgh public school system and feeling the consequences of that when they got to college.我想最触动我的事情是看着我的孩子们在进入大学后经历挣扎。我儿子最终取得了成功。我女儿则认定大学不适合她。但我意识到，即便我们把他们送进了我们这里表现较好的一所学校，他们根本就没有为大学的学业要求做好准备。
英文原文
>> I think the thing that stuck with me most is watching my kids struggle when they got to college. My son ultimately was successful. My daughter decided that college was not for her. But I realized that even though we had them in, you know, one of our higher performing schools, they just weren't ready for the rigors of college.那么他认为关闭这些学校很重要的理由是什么？
英文原文
>> And what's his argument for why it's important to close these schools?有两个原因。呃——
英文原文
>> There are two reasons. Uh所以我认为他的论点是双重的。第一，他认为这样做有财政上的好处。
英文原文
>> so I think his argument is twofold. One, he's arguing that there's a financial benefit to doing this.当你拥有规模意外变得很小的学校时，它们的运营成本是非常高昂的。因此，通过整合和关闭校舍，你能够把原本要花在那座校舍上的资金重新分配给继续开放的学校。所以这里面有财政方面的考量。另一个纯粹是从人员配置的角度来看。
英文原文
>> When you have schools that are inadvertently small, they are really expensive to operate. And so by consolidating closing buildings, you you're able to take that money that you would otherwise spend on that building and and redistribute it to schools that are staying open. So there's a a fiscal reason to it. The other is just from a a pure people standpoint.此外还有另一个论点，是关于学校的资源和办学质量。当我们的学校规模过小时，这些学校有维持运转所必须的最低教职员工配置要求，这给系统的其余部分带来了负担。
英文原文
>> But then there's this other argument which is about the resources and the quality of the schools. When we have schools that are so small, they have a minimum faculty and staffing that needs to be in those schools and that puts a strain on the rest of the system.他们觉得在当前的格局下，入学人数在减少，一些学校变得越来越小，要想提供家庭所希望和需要的这些服务实在太困难了。例如，我走访了一所初中，该校多年来生源严重减少，已经无法提供八年级代数课程。这之所以重要，是因为如果学生修读了八年级代数，他们就可以在高中继续修读更高阶的数学，比如微积分，从而为大学做好更充分的准备。好的。所以沃克表示，学区需要关闭学校并将孩子们合并到更少的校舍中，否则他们就无法明智地使用资源，而且实际上也无法提供他们所必需的课程项目。对吧？
并且他为关闭几乎所有磁校、放弃该策略的决定进行辩护，因为他认为这正是邻里学校从一开始就陷入困境的原因之一——它们没有足够的学生，也得不到所需要的资源。你知道，有一件事总是让我心碎：我家步行范围内就有一所学校，但我走到公交车站，看到50个孩子上了10辆不同的校车去往全市各个地方，而实际上我认为我们所有做父母的期望是，你知道，我们希望孩子离得近。
英文原文
>> They feel like in the current setup where enrollment is down and some schools are getting smaller and smaller and smaller, it's just too hard to offer these services that families want and need. So, for example, I visited a middle school that has seen its enrollment decline a lot over the years and it isn't able to offer eighth grade algebra. And why that matters is if students take eighth grade algebra, they can go on to take more advanced math in high school, maybe calculus, and then be better prepared for college. All right. So, Walker saying that the district needs to close schools and consolidate kids into fewer buildings, otherwise they're not using their resources wisely and they can't actually provide the programming that they need to. Right? and he defends the decision to close almost all of the magnet schools to move away from that strategy because he believes that that is one of the reasons that these neighborhood schools are struggling to begin with that they don't have enough kids and they're not getting the resources that they need. You know, one of the things that always broke my heart was going to the bus stop when there's a school uh within walking distance of my house and then I go to the bus stop and watch 50 kids get on 10 different buses to go all over the city when in reality I think what we would all hope as parents is, you know, we want our kids close.匹兹堡公立学校系统表示，磁校在系统中造成了严重的不平等。要知道，磁校系统从根本上说是为了通过建立这些自选学校，将中产阶级白人家庭留在学区内。
英文原文
>> What the Pittsburgh public school system says is that magnet schools were creating a lot of inequality in the system. You know, the magnet school system at its core was designed to keep middle-class white families in this in the school district by creating these schools of choice.他们的看法是：
英文原文
>> And their perspective was,听着，我们不应该只在西班牙语磁校提供西班牙语教学。每所小学都应该有西班牙语。我们不应该只在磁校提供科学与技术。每所学校都应该拥有这些。我们需要关注的是，如何在那个社区建立一所大家愿意去的学校，对吧？如果我面对的是一所因为没有专职体育老师而无法提供全职体育课、或者没有美术或音乐课的学校，对吧？因此该方案的承诺是，通过关闭学校并承受一些暂时的短期痛苦，学区和孩子们最终在长期内会受益，因为每所小学都将能够提供美术、音乐、STEM（即科学、技术、工程和数学类内容），以及从三年级开始的外语课。所以他们希望每个学生都能拥有这些。然后每所初中都将能够提供诸如八年级代数之类的课程。这就是来自学区的论点。这个论点本质上是认为这会让所有人共同受益。
英文原文
>> look, we shouldn't just offer Spanish at the Spanish Magnet School. Every elementary school should have Spanish. We shouldn't just offer science and technology at the magnet school. Every school should have that. We need to look at like how do we create a school in that community that folks want to go to, right? If I'm looking at a school where we can't provide gym full-time because we don't have a full-time gym teacher or there's no art or there's no music. Right? So, the promise of the plan is that by closing schools and taking on some temporary short-term pain that the district and the kids ultimately are going to be better off in the long term because every elementary school will be able to offer art, music, STEM, which is science, technology, engineering, math kind of things, and a foreign language starting in third grade. So, they want every student to have that. And then every middle school will be able to offer things like eighth grade algebra. That's the argument from the district. The argument is this is going to lift all boats basically.这一次，尽管感觉好像剥夺了很多东西，但我们确实在努力确保明年开学第一天学生走进每栋建筑时，都有所增加。
英文原文
>> This time even though there seems feels like there's a lot of taking away, we're really working hard to make sure that there's something added to every building when the students walk in on the first day of next year.家长的两难境地与信任危机
我观察到的一件非常有意思的事情是，他们要求家庭所做的事，有点像是在押注学区能够兑现其承诺。嗯。
英文原文
>> One thing that I think is really interesting that I've observed is what they're asking families to do is kind of make a bet that the district is going to deliver on its promise. M如果你身处一个你并不怎么喜欢、也不觉得有多好的邻里学校家庭，这可能对你是个好消息。你可能会说：“噢，我的学校要变好了。”
英文原文
>> and if you're a family at a a neighborhood school that you don't like all that much and you don't think is that great, this could be good news for you. You could say, "Oh, my school is going to get better."但如果你是另外那些家庭之一，孩子在某所磁校或者在你真正喜欢的高表现学校就读，他们要求这些家庭所做的事，基本上是用他们满意的东西，
英文原文
>> But if you're one of these other families who goes to one of these magnet schools or to a high performing school you really like, what they're asking those families to do is basically trade something they're happy with去换取一个他们可能并不满意的、潜在相同甚至更差的选择。这就是问题症结所在。所以，对于那些不太相信这个赌注真的会对他们奏效、认为“听着，我不喜欢这里正在发生的事情”的家庭，他们实际上在做什么？听起来他们在发出自己的声音。他们是否在采取行动？这正是匹兹堡各地的家庭目前所面临的抉择。所以他们基本上必须在这个学年做出决定，决定他们明年要做什么。他们有几种选择。他们可以顺从这个方案，说：“我打算尝试匹兹堡建议的方案。”他们可以考虑离开这个公立学校系统。他们可以尝试去特许学校，那属于学区公立系统之外的公立学校。如果他们负担得起，他们可以去读私立学校。
英文原文
>> for potentially an equal or worse option that they might not be happy with. And that is the rub. So, for those families who don't have a lot of confidence that this bet is actually going to pan out for them, who think, "Look, I don't like what's happening here." What are they actually doing? It sounds like they're making their voices heard. Are they taking action? That is the choice that families all across Pittsburgh are faced with right now. So, they have to make a choice pretty much this school year what they're going to do next year. And they have a few options. They can go along with this plan and say, "I'm going to try what Pittsburgh is suggesting." They can consider leaving the school system. They can try to go to a charter school, which is a public school outside the district school system. They could enroll in a private school if they can afford it.有些人正在考虑：我是否该在家里自己教孩子？这就是重大的疑问。会有多少家长因此离开，又有多少人会留下来坚持到底？我们联系了许多家长，真正试图了解：他们是如何看待这件事的？他们如何看待这些得失权衡？他们作何打算？他们打算怎么做？
我们马上回来。
英文原文
>> Some are considering, do I homeschool my kid? That is the big question. How many parents will leave because of this and how many will stay to see it through? And we reached out to a bunch of parents to really try to understand how are they thinking about this? How are they thinking about the trade-offs? What are they planning? What are they going to do?We'll be right back.
那么萨拉，请跟我讲讲你与家长们的对话，他们的打算是什么，以及他们如何看待学校发生的这一切变化。
我和两名《The Daily》制作人迈克尔·西蒙·约翰逊，
英文原文
>> So Sarah, tell me about the conversations that you've had with parents, what their plans are and how they're thinking about all these changes to their schools. So I along with two daily producers, Michael Simon Johnson.能告诉我你的名字吗？还有——
英文原文
>> Can you just tell me your name and以及斯特拉·谭（Stella Tan），
英文原文
>> and Stella Tan,你介意介绍一下你自己吗？你的名字是——
英文原文
>> would you mind introducing yourself? So your name and与十几位家长进行了交流。
英文原文
>> talk to more than a dozen parents.我叫肖恩·曼（Sean Man）。我是艾米莉·索耶（Emily Sawyer）、香农·斯特里纳（Shannon Striner）、内奥米·钱伯斯（Naomi Chambers），单亲妈妈。
英文原文
>> My name's Sean Man. I am Emily Sawyer, Shannon Striner, Naomi Chambers, single mother.贾斯敏·沃西（Jasmine Worthy），在宾夕法尼亚州匹兹堡出生长大。我毕业于匹兹堡公立学校。我所有的孩子都在匹兹堡公立学校就读。
英文原文
>> Jasmine Worthy, born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I graduated from Pittsburgh public schools. All my children are Pittsburgh public schools.我有一个7岁的孩子和一个10岁的孩子。我有四个孩子在公立学校。这可能会令人感到意外，但关闭学校之所以引发如此剧烈的反弹，原因之一是，即便在那些生源不足的学校里，
英文原文
>> I have a 7-year-old and a 10-year-old. I have four in public schools. And this might be surprising, but one of the reasons closing schools has been so explosive is that even in schools that are underenrolled,那里被称为资源匮乏的学校，
英文原文
>> it's known as an underresourced school或者即使家长们承认自己的孩子并没有拥有学校里本应拥有的一切。
英文原文
>> or even when parents acknowledge that their kids don't have everything that they should have in their schools.他们很多人都没有他们应该有的书籍。
英文原文
>> A lot of them don't have books that they should have.许多家庭对自己的学校仍然相当满意。
英文原文
>> Lots of families are still pretty happy with their school.我在那里感到安全。我知道我的孩子们也是。
英文原文
>> I feel safe there. I know my children do.我就任由孩子们在学校里活动。我甚至不用操心。我知道他们是安全的。我们处于经济拮据的社区，常有这样的情况：我的孩子们回家时会带着一袋袋的食物之类，而且不仅是他们会带食物回家。所以从来不会出现他们被排斥的时刻。就像作为一个社区，我们受到了照顾。这就像是一个大家庭。
英文原文
>> I just let my kids roam in the school. I don't even be caring. I know they're safe. where economically strains community and there's a thing where my children will come home with bags of food and things like that and it's not just them that will come home with the bag. So it's never a moment where they're ostracized. It's like as a community we're taken care of. It's like kind of a family.这些家庭在这些学校里与其他学生、与老师建立了深厚的关系。我儿子从四岁起就在那里，他们非常了解他。他有时有点精力旺盛，但他们知道如何与他沟通，引导他回归正轨。他们看着他长大。他们知道他喜欢什么。他们知道他喜欢宝可梦。有些特别的了解。据家长们说，这种支持对他们的孩子产生了巨大的影响。我10岁的女儿西耶娜（Sienna）患有唐氏综合征。她在我们附近的邻里公立学校富尔顿（Fulton）上学。他们是唯一一所让我们觉得真正欢迎她到来的学校。
英文原文
>> These are families that they've built strong relationships at these schools with other students, with their teachers. My son, he's been there since he was four and they know him very well. He is a little rambunctious sometimes, but they know how to talk to him and get him back on track. They've seen him grow. They know what he's into. They know he loves Pokémon. Like, there's certain. And according to parents, this support has had a huge impact on their kids. My 10-year-old Sienna has Down syndrome. She attends our neighborhood public school, Fulton. They were the only school that ever made us feel that school wanted her to be there.关于即将到来的改变，你和西耶娜是如何沟通的？
英文原文
>> What have your conversations been like with Sienna about the changes coming up?她还不理解，而且我认为直到我们到了新学校她才会完全明白。我有一种感觉，焦虑感会在我们刚开始的时候悄悄袭来。所以，我现在没有太把注意力放在这上面。我们在努力享受在富尔顿的最后一年。事实上，她现在的老师就是去年的同一位老师。今天早上在她去上学之前，她的老师寄回家了一本书，今天上学前她读了一本书给我听。目睹这一幕是最美妙的事情之一。而且——
英文原文
>> She doesn't grasp it and I don't think that she will fully grasp it until we're at her new school. I have a feeling that the anxiety will creep up on her right as we start. So, I'm not putting too much attention on it now. on trying to enjoy our last year at Fulton. In fact, she has the same teacher she had last year. And this morning before she left for school, her teacher sent home a book and she read she read a book to me before she went to school today. And it was like one of the most amazing things to to witness. And所以，我们现在只是沉浸在这种时刻的快乐中。并和这些出色的老师和孩子们一起在富尔顿度过最美好的最后一年。富尔顿的孩子们非常热情和充满爱心，他们让她觉得自己属于那里，呃，对我们来说，这是——这是极好的礼物。
英文原文
>> so, we're just living in the joy of moments like that right now. and making the best of this last year at Fulton with these amazing teachers and kids. The kids at Fulton are so welcoming and loving and they make her feel like she belongs there and um for us that's that's a gift.因此这些家庭现在感受到了真实的失落感，对这些学校关闭抱有一种真正的悲伤感，而且他们也对自己的孩子可能不得不去更大的学校感到焦虑。你知道，如果我们的孩子来自相对较小的班级规模，你把他们放到一个大班级里，然后如果老师不堪重负，那么学生也会不堪重负。我是说，这只是一种涟漪连锁反应，我认为这并没有经过深思熟虑。
英文原文
>> So these families are feeling a real sense of loss right now, a real sense of grief around these closures and they're also feeling anxious that their kids may have to go to bigger schools. you know, if our kids are coming from relatively smaller class sizes and you put them in a big class and then if the teacher is overwhelmed, then the students become overwhelmed. I mean, it just is a trickling effect that I don't think was thoroughly thought about.他们对孩子们的过渡阶段感到担忧。
英文原文
>> They're feeling worried about their transitions.然后对我作为他的母亲来说，怎能不担心我的心肝宝贝——他会焦虑吗？他会害怕吗？如果他情绪崩溃了怎么办？而这些老师并不了解他，因为他过去曾有过行为问题。这就好比——
英文原文
>> And then for me as his mom to not be worried about my baby weight, is he anxious? Is he scared? What if he's breaking down? And these teachers don't understand him because he has had behavioral issues in the past. And it's like,好吧，我们了解以利亚（Elijah）。我们知道他是感情丰富的那个。所以我们会相应地处理，但换作一个不一样的老师可能就会觉得：
英文原文
>> all right, well, we know Elijah. We know he's my emotional one. So, we deal with it accordingly, but a different teacher will just be like,他需要去某个角落坐着，把他孤立起来。所以——
英文原文
>> he needs to go sit in a corner somewhere and isolate him. So,他们的孩子在学业上会倒退吗？他们会有归属感吗？在这些新学校里情况会变成什么样？他们的孩子是否能够度过难关并继续学习和茁壮成长？
英文原文
>> will their kids regress academically? Will they have the sense of belonging? Like, what is going to be the situation in these new schools? And will their kids be able to make it through that and still learn and thrive?是的。他们对如此巨大的改变感到焦虑是完全合理的，但他们送孩子去的学校在先前的系统下大概也处于困境中，对吧？比如它们生源不足，缺乏资源。所以我只是想知道，这些家长是否相信这里可能存在真正的益处、对他们的孩子会有所改善？
英文原文
>> Right. It makes sense that they would be anxious about such a big change, but they were sending their kids to schools that were presumably suffering under the previous system, right? Like they were underenrolled, they were resource starved. So, I'm just wondering, do these parents believe in the idea that there might be real benefits here, improvements for their kids?我们确实向他们问了这个疑问。学校董事会的承诺是，在新学校每个人都应该能够上美术、音乐、STEAM或STEM、体育、外语等这些并非每所学校都有的各种不同课程。你对这个承诺有什么看法？我觉得——
英文原文
>> Well, we asked them that question. So the promise uh from the school board is that at the new schools everyone is supposed to get art, music, steam or STEM, PE, foreign language, all these different programs that not every school has. How do you feel about that promise? I feel兴奋。
英文原文
>> excited.不，我觉得麻木。对于实际情况是否真的会变成那样，我感到非常忧虑。
英文原文
>> No, I feel numb. I'm very apprehensive that that's going to actually be the case with this.其中一些人对学校董事会的承诺及其能否兑现相当怀疑。
英文原文
>> And some of them are pretty skeptical of what the school board is promising and whether it can deliver.是的。我——我不相信他们。我只是不信——呃，如果他们在米勒（Miller）学校一直忽视我们，我不认为他们会突然开始向——哇。他们只是一直让我们相信他们，但他们根本没有给我们任何相信的理由。
英文原文
>> Yeah. I I don't believe them. I just don't um if they've neglected us at Miller, I don't think they're all of a sudden going to start pumping resources to Wow. They just keep telling us to trust them and they've given us no reason to.高质量学校家长的质疑与流失风险
很有意思。这么说来，你所交谈过的那些本可以从学区获得更多资源中受益的家庭，听起来他们并没有被说服。那么那些孩子已经在表现相对较高、资源充足的学校（包括其中一些磁校）就读的家庭呢？我能想象得到他们对这个方案会更加怀疑。
确实如此。我们从他们那里听到的一点是担忧所有这些变化可能会侵蚀学区内一些更受欢迎、表现更高的学校的教育质量。
英文原文
>> Interesting. So, the families that you spoke to who stand to benefit from getting more from the district, it sounds like they're not sold. What about the families whose kids are already in relatively high-erforming, wellresourced schools, including some of those magnet schools? I'd have to imagine they're even more skeptical of this plan. Definitely. And one thing we heard from them was a concern that all of these changes could erode the quality of education at some of the more desirable, higher performing schools in the district.好几位家长特别谈到了一所学校，即科技磁校（SciTech），这是匹兹堡一所顶尖的磁校。它专注于科学与技术。它吸引了来自全市各地的孩子。他们通过申请进入该校。他们去那里就是为了这套课程。但在新体系下，它将被合并，某种程度上变成部分磁校、部分邻里学校。而将从周边邻里进入的学生，来自一所极少有学生在数学和阅读上达到熟练水平的学校。因此，当前和未来的SciTech家长对此感到担忧。
英文原文
>> So several parents talked about this one school in particular, Scitec, which is a premier magnet school in Pittsburgh. It's focused on science and technology. It draws kids from all over the city. They apply to go there. They want to go there for this curriculum. But under the new system, it's going to be merged and kind of become partial magnet, partial neighborhood school. And the kids who are going to be coming in from the neighborhood are coming in from a school where very few students at the school are proficient in math and reading. And so current and prospective Scitec parents were worried about this.如果你仔细研究SciTech邻里学校，你就会明白该项目是专门针对高水平的以科学和数学为基础的课程。然而他们却要把一大批住在附近的孩子直接塞进那所学校。好吧，他们不可能保持原本期望达到的标准。而且——
英文原文
>> If you look closer into the Scitec neighborhood school, you'll understand that that program is specific to very high-erforming science and math-based programs. yet they're going to go just throw a bunch of kids that live in the neighborhood into that school. Well, they're not going to keep up the standards that they were expected to have. And所以对一些家长来说，问题在于：你们如何维持我们当初为此而来的学术严谨性？而且对于其他家长来说，你们将如何支持新进入的孩子？你们能否让每个人都取得成功？
英文原文
>> so the question for some parents is, how do you maintain the academic rigor that we came here for? And also for other parents, how are you going to support the new kids coming in? Are you going to set everyone up for success?对吧？
英文原文
>> Right?从根本上说，许多家长根本不买账。他们目前还没有足够的证据去相信学校董事会的方案能够实现其预定目标——即把学生留在公立学校系统中并让该系统更加公平。你能多谈谈这一点吗？比如除了担心某些较受欢迎学校的学术标准可能会下降之外，为什么他们不相信通过所有这些变化整个系统会变得更加公平？
英文原文
>> And fundamentally, many parents just aren't bought in. They don't have enough evidence yet to believe that the school board's plan will accomplish what it was meant to accomplish, which was keeping students in the public school system and making it more equitable. Can you say more about that? Like beyond their fears that academic standards could go down at some of the more sought-after schools, why don't they believe that the system as a whole would become more equitable with all these changes?我认为我们听到的最充分的论据来自这位家长。我的名字叫阿比盖尔·福尔兹（Abigail Folds），我有两个儿子和一个——
英文原文
>> I think the best argument we heard came from this one parent. My name is Abigail Folds and I have two boys and one她实际上认为磁校在该学区提供公平和机会获取方面发挥了巨大作用。
英文原文
>> who actually thought that magnet schools played a big role in offering equity and access to opportunity in the district.你知道，人们总喜欢说那是为了把白人孩子留在学区内等等，但你知道它还起到了什么作用吗？它为一些无力居住在更富裕地区的孩子提供了在另一所不同学校接受教育的机会，而这今后将不再是一个选项。
她谈到了自己就读磁校以及送孩子去磁校的亲身经历。
英文原文
>> You know, people love to say that that was the thing to keep the white kids in the district and everything, but also you know what it does? It gives an opportunity for some kids that can't afford to live in a richer area to have a education at maybe a different school and that will no longer be an option. and she speaks to her own personal experience going to magnet schools and sending her kids to magnet schools.我就是在匹兹堡公立磁校读大的，去认识全市其他地方的人让人感到很自由。社区在很多方面是令人窒息的。你知道，这种能够获得自由、重塑自我、能够决定自己是谁而不被归类为某种特定孩子的观念。这正是我的家人所拥有的深刻经历。
英文原文
>> I grew up going to Pittsburgh public magnet schools and it was freeing to go and meet other people across the city. Neighborhoods are stifling in a lot of ways. You know, this whole notion of being able to be free and reinvent yourself and being able to decide who you are and not be pigeonholed into a certain type of kid. That is very much the experience my family members have had.她基本上表示，磁校可以是一条出路。你的邮政编码不必决定你的命运。并且她实际上认为取消磁校有可能加剧居住隔离，并使学校更加隔离。怎么会？为什么会这样？因为如果取消了磁校，她认为那些原本大部分就选择富裕社区的富裕家庭将百分之百地选择富裕社区。我住在一个所谓“不受欢迎”的社区，我认为如果人们知道他们必须上当地的邻里学校，他们就不会搬到我的社区来，也就是——
英文原文
>> Basically, she says that magnet schools can be a way out. Your zip code doesn't have to be your destiny. And she actually thinks that getting rid of magnet schools runs the risk of reinforcing housing segregation and making schools more segregated. How? How so? Because if you get rid of the magnet schools, she thinks the affluent families who already mostly choose affluent neighborhoods will 100% choose affluent neighborhoods. I live in a quote unquote undesirable neighborhood and I think people would not move to my neighborhood if they knew they had to go to the neighborhood school which is他们不会考虑去住那些在知道可以去其他地方上学时原本可能会考虑居住的社区。
英文原文
>> they're not going to consider living in neighborhoods that maybe they would have if they knew that they could go to school somewhere else.这正是使教育和教育政策变得如此复杂的原因，因为你既有学校隔离，又有居住隔离，它们相互作用并交织在一起，
英文原文
>> This is what makes education and education policy so complicated because you have school segregation and you have housing segregation and it all interplays and intermixes,对吧？但是，即使你认同该学区的论点——即我们基本上会把资源集中投入到这些学校中，我们将为学生提供美术、音乐、STEM、代数，我们将为他们提供完全相同的途径和机会。一些家长表示那是天真的想法。是的，你可能会在学校配备一名代数老师，但会有多少学生为学代数做好准备呢？你懂我的意思吗？比如，我们真的能在整体上改善我们的教育体系吗？我根本没有任何理由相信那是真的。我认为办好一所学校很难。如果你拿一所陷入困境的学校来说，你只是建一个乐队排练室，这能解决问题吗？比如，美术老师能解决问题吗，还是说关键在于其他东西？
英文原文
>> right? But even if you buy the district's argument that basically we're going to funnel resources into these schools, we're going to give students art, music, STEM, algebra, we're going to give them all the same access and opportunities. Some parents are saying that's naive. Yes, you might get an algebra teacher at the school, but how many more kids will be prepared for algebra? Do you know what I mean? Like, will we have improved our education system at large? I just don't have any reason to believe that's true. I think it's hard to make a good school. If you take one of the schools that's struggling and you just build a band room, is that going to do it? Like, is that is the art teacher going to fix it or is it something else?我们做出了各种各样的教育改变和调整，我们只是在不断对教育系统缝缝补补，而同样的那批孩子仍然继续被抛在后面。我只是看不到学区有强有力的计划去做出这些改进。
英文原文
>> We have made all kinds of educational changes and adjustments and we're just constantly tinkering with the education system and the same kids continue to get left behind. And I just don't see the district with strong plans to make those improvements.而且整个方案基本上要求家庭回到他们的邻里学校。但其中一些人只是说这没有太大意义，因为我们在公立学校系统之外还有其他选择。
英文原文
>> And the whole plan basically requires families to go back into their neighborhood schools. But some of them are just saying like this doesn't make a lot of sense because there are other choices that we have outside the public school system.第一，有特许学校。人们依然可以离开，而现在他们只是在匹兹堡公立学校系统内部没有了选择。人们已经在离开了，人们只会不断地逃离、逃离、逃离，这将成为一场竞次底线的竞争（race to the bottom）。这简直是——
英文原文
>> One, there's charter schools. People can still leave and now they just don't have an option within the Pittsburgh public school system. people already are leaving and people will just flee and flee and flee and it'll be a race to the bottom. It's just所以你们关掉了一个或许在助长不平等的杠杆，但这边还有另一个杠杆——特许学校、家庭教育，也许还有私立学校——而你们甚至没有触及它。而这些家长中究竟有多少人真的会离开？
本学年的一些初步入学数据显示，有一定数量的家庭——几百个家庭，主要是经济条件较好的家庭——今年离开了该学校系统。这是因为这个原因吗？还是因为别的什么？很难给出绝对的定论，但离开的主要是经济条件较好的家庭这一事实表明，确实拥有选择权的家庭正在动用那种选择权。我和一位正是这类家长之一的妈妈聊了聊。
英文原文
>> so you've closed one lever that was perhaps contributing to inequality, but then there's this other lever over here, charter schools, homeschooling, maybe private school that you're not even addressing. And how many of these parents are actually going to leave? Well, there's some preliminary enrollment data from this school year that suggests that some number of families, several hundred families, primarily families of means left the school system this year. Was that because of this? Was that because of something else? It's hard to say definitively, but the fact that it was primarily families who are more economically better off suggests that families who do have choices to make are using that choice. And I talked to one mom who is one of those parents.我有一个三年级的孩子。我们今年实际上把他转出去了，去上私立学校。坊间传闻——而且我们已经看到了——特别是私立学校预计会有大批孩子从这个地区出走到私立学校。所以我们决定今年就抢占先机，而不是等到明年。事实上，他在私立学校的班级规模自去年以来已经翻了一倍。呃——
英文原文
>> So I have a third grader. We actually pulled him this year to go to private school. The word on the street and we've seen it is that private schools in particular are expecting a huge exodus of kids from this area to go to private schools. So we decided to get a jump on that uh this year as opposed to next year. In fact, his class size at the private school has doubled since last year. Um,她把其中一个孩子转走去上了私立学校，并计划把第二个孩子也转出来去上私立学校，她对此感到相当难过。请跟我多说说你已经将三年级孩子转走、并打算将六年级孩子转走的决定。是的，多讲讲吧。
我是说，有点想哭。呃，自这个过程开始以来——大约是在两个夏天前，或者现在看来也许是三个夏天前开始的——感觉无论家长们说什么或尝试什么，呃，我们的意见都没有被采纳。她曾是一个极度积极参与孩子公立学校事务的人，但她只是觉得这对她的家庭来说破坏性太大了。
英文原文
>> she pulled one of her children out to go to a private school and is planning to pull her second child out to go to a private school and she was pretty torn up about it. So, tell me a little bit about your decision to already take your third grader out and you have plans to take your sixth grader out. Yeah, tell me more about that. I mean, get a little tear. Um, since the beginning of this process, which started two summers ago or three maybe three summers ago at this point, it it just feels like no matter what the parents say or try, um, our input is not being taken part of. She was someone who was extremely involved in her kids public school, but she just felt like it was too disruptive for her family.我和我丈夫——抱歉，有点——
英文原文
>> Me and my husband, sorry, it's a little没关系。慢慢来。
英文原文
>> That's okay. Take your time.因为我们双方都来自——我们两人的母亲都是教师。我妹妹是公立学校的老师。我们——不把孩子送去公立学校是一个艰难的决定，但是我们的理念是，我们是这样看待的：我们没有放弃公立学校。是公立学校放弃了我们的孩子。
英文原文
>> Cuz we both come from both of our mothers were teachers. My sister's a teacher in public school. We It's a hard decision to not send our kids to public school, but our philosophy is this is how we take it. We did not give up on public school. Public school gave up on our children.但也有许多家长选择留下来，甚至是那些在公开校董听证会上表现得如此尖锐、如此沮丧的家长中的一部分。
英文原文
>> But there are a lot of parents who are staying, even some of the parents who were showing up at those public board hearings so critical, so upset.我是一位白人中产阶级母亲。我确实认为白人和享有特权的人有责任坚守、留在这些学校里。我有白人男孩，他们至少在生活的一个方面不需要成为中心。我是说，呃，我们某种程度上处于霸权的核心。因此我认为对他们来说，拥有这种失去优越平衡、学习与不同的人相处的经历是非常重要的。我只是觉得作为白人男孩的家长，我能做的最重要的事情之一就是给他们提供这样的经历。
英文原文
>> I am a white middle class mom. I do think white and privileged people have a responsibility to stick to stay and be in these schools. I have white boys who don't need to be centered in at least one aspect of their life. I mean, um, we're sort of in the bullseye of the hegemony. So, I think it's really important for them to have an experience where they are offbalance and learning to get along with different people. I just think it's one of the most important things that I could do as a parent of white boys is give them an experience like that.我深信公立学校对我们人民的民主具有重要意义，我实在无法放弃公立学校。从理论上讲，我必须为了匹兹堡公立学校和面向所有人的公立学校的福祉而做出承诺。他们中的一些人就是认定了“我是公立学校家长，我要留下来。我要把这坚持到底。”
英文原文
>> I deeply believe in the idea of public schools as important to the democracy of our people and I just could not give up on public schools. I just theoretically have to commit to the good of Pittsburgh public schools and public schools for all. Some of them have just decided like I'm a public school parent and I'm staying. I'm gonna see this through.你考虑过私立学校或特许学校吗？
英文原文
>> Did Did you consider private or charter?我——是的，遗憾的是我得承认这一点。是的。是的。我考虑过。我没有太深入去想它。呃，我想说无论我的孩子们去哪里，他们都会没事的，因为他们有我。但这也伴随着一种沉重，因为存在那种拉扯。如果我把孩子转到别的地方，要么是特许学校，要么就是私立学校。而作为公立教育的倡导者，那我就成了伪善者。但话又说回来，这对我孩子会不会更好？是的。心里一直在拉扯。太心力交瘁了。
此外，我认为我还观察到了某种程度的羞耻感，比如：如果我在此刻做出了不同的选择，我是不是抛弃了公立学校系统？在这种情况下我到底该怎么做才是可以接受的？
英文原文
>> I Yeah, I can unfortunately like I'm sad to admit that. Yep. Yep. I've considered it. I didn't give it too much thought. Um I want to say no matter where my kids go, they'll be fine because they got me. But there's also a weight with that because there's that tug of war. If I take my kids and put them somewhere else, it's either going to be charter or it's going to be private. And being a public education advocate, then I'm a hypocrite. But then also, is it better for my kids? Yeah. It's tug of war over here. It's exhausting. Also, I think there's just I've observed some level of of shame around like if I make a different choice in this moment, am I abandoning the public school system? Like what is okay for me to do in this situation?我们是为了公立学校搬到这里的，所以我有点不想就这样抽身离开，但这就像是在“你多大程度上愿意抽身离开”的光谱上，每个人都往前挪了一格，你懂吗？而且——
英文原文
>> We moved here for the public schools and so I I kind of don't want to just bail, but like everybody kind of moved up one notch on the how willing are you to bail spectrum, you know? And所以对有些人来说，也许他们已经觉得自己准备好把孩子送去别的地方了，于是他们就这样做了。而且我认为会有相当一部分人将该学区视为处于“考察期”。我们——我们将看看第一年的情况如何。我认为这是你的责任——像我的很多朋友都是受过良好教育的有特权阶层。参与并把你的孩子送进匹兹堡公立学校是你的责任。我以前对这一点非常坚持，可能惹烦了我的很多朋友，但我现在不再这么说了，因为有太多事情悬而未决。
英文原文
>> so for some people maybe they kind of already felt like they were about ready to send their kids someplace else and so they just did. And I think that there's going to be a bunch of people for whom the district is kind of on probation. We'll we'll see how that first year goes. I think it is your duty as a like a lot of my friends are educated privileged. It is your duty to participate and send your kid to Pittsburgh public schools. And I was very adamant about that and probably annoyed lots of my friends, but I don't say it anymore because too much is up in the air.对我来说很难想象完全退出这个学区。但我的意思是，相比公立学区，我更忠于我的孩子们。所以，如果我觉得那是我们必须做的事情，那我肯定会离开。
英文原文
>> It's hard for me to imagine totally pulling out of the district. But I mean, I I'm more committed to my kids than I am to the public school district. So, if I if I felt like that's what we needed to do, then I would definitely leave.还有一些人打算在做出激进改变之前先试一试。
但无论家长们目前是留是走，贯穿这一切我听你谈论的共同主题，就是这些家庭极度的怀疑态度，以及信任已经丧失的感觉。而如果这种情况持续下去，并且如果这促使更多家长最终决定把孩子带离这个系统，那就会使这整个计划适得其反，对吧？并使最初导致这一局面的生源问题变得更加糟糕。所以，我想知道吉恩·沃克作为这项方案的代言人对此作何回应？
英文原文
>> And others are going to try it before making a radical change. But whether parents are staying or going for now, the common theme that I'm hearing you talk about through all this is just an extreme skepticism on the part of these families and a sense that trust has been lost. And if that kind of continues and if that pushes more parents to ultimately decide to take their kids out of the system, that would make this whole plan backfire, right? and make the enrollment problem that produced this in the first place even worse. So, I'm wondering how does Gene Walker, the kind of spokesperson for this plan, respond to that?学区负责人的回应与全美启示
嗯，他承认存在这种可能性，但他仍然坚信这是最佳选择。我们听到有人说关闭学校实际上可能会赶走家庭，这不仅不会挽救学区，反而会加速其灭亡或加剧你们的问题。你对此怎么看？
英文原文
>> Well, he acknowledges that this is a possibility, but he still believes that it's the best option. We've heard people say that school closures could actually drive families away, that this is not going to save the district, but actually be its demise or worsen your problem. What do you make of that?是的，我是说这确实很难办。呃，这有点像先有鸡还是先有蛋的讨论，对吧？哪一个在先？是人们离开在先，还是需要关闭学校在先？但我认为归根结底，履行我们的承诺将取决于我们作为学区自身的表现。呃，我们不能让人们离开的威胁成为我们不做必要决定的理由。因为即使我们做出决定，人们可能会离开；如果我们不做决定，人们也可能会离开。所以我认为这种风险始终存在。但是，如果并且当我们在这一过程完成并且成功实施之后，我们将提供的教育质量将是把人们吸引回匹兹堡的因素，而不是校舍。
英文原文
>> Yeah, I mean that's a tough one. Uh it it is kind of like a chicken and an egg conversation, right? Which comes first? Uh people leaving or needing to close schools? But I think ultimately uh it will be up to us uh as a school district to fulfill our promise. Uh and we can't let the threat of people leaving be the reason why we don't do the make the decision that's necessary. Because if we make the decision, people might leave. if we don't make the decision, people might leave. And so I think there there's always that risk. But if and when we are done with this process and we've done it successfully, the quality of education that we will provide will be the thing that brings people back to Pittsburgh, not the buildings.但他非常清楚自己对家庭的要求是什么。
英文原文
>> But he is very aware of what he's asking of families.要求家长这样做是一件非常困难的事，因为我们的孩子在学校的时间是如此短暂，这样的改变是巨大的。但归根结底，作为学校董事会，我们的责任不仅在于我们现有的学生，而且在于我们在10年、15年、20年后将拥有的学生，去建立一个足够持久耐用的系统，以便在我们许多人卸任这些职务后很久仍能满足他们的需求。呃——
英文原文
>> That this is a really hard thing to ask parents to do because our kids are in school for such a short period of time that a change like this is massive. But ultimately as a school board, we have an obligation not just to the students that we have currently, but to the students that we will have 10, 15, 20 years from now to create a system that is durable enough to take care of their needs long after many of us are done in these positions. Um萨拉，你报道美国教育已经很多年了，在深入探讨了匹兹堡如何应对公立学校生源减少这一全国性问题的案例研究之后，我只是想知道：关于全美其他地方应该如何应对这一问题，你的看法是什么？
英文原文
>> Sarah, you've been covering education in America for years now, and I'm just wondering after going deep on this case study of Pittsburgh and how it's dealing with this national problem of declining enrollment in public schools. What is your takeaway about how the rest of the country should be dealing with this?匹兹堡选择以一种非常具体的方式来应对这个问题。我认为一个体会是，他们应对的方式是试图提高所有学生的底线，特别是构成其学校系统大多数的更为脆弱的学生。但他们决定应对这一问题的方式是在着重提升底线的同时，并没有对上限给予同等的关注——那些也许成绩更高、也许更富裕、家庭拥有更多自主权和选择权的学生，而顶部可能会发生流失。天花板可能会出现漏洞，我认为这是匹兹堡公立学校正在进行的一场赌博。他们就是这么做的。其他学区可能会采取不同的路径，无论哪种方式你都会面临一些风险，因为当我放眼全国时，我看到的典型模式是学区都存在生源问题。他们年复一年地拖延。经历充满争议的会议，他们不采取行动，不采取行动，然后最终你必须开始做点什么。学区通常面临着几种不同的选择，没有一个是好的。你可以走匹兹堡的路线，关闭学校。这极具争议。还有另一种选择，即你实际上尝试根据不断减少的学生人口来调整教职员工规模。所以你试图有针对性地裁撤教师，这非常不受欢迎，而且在某些情况下由于工会谈判等原因甚至是不可能的。这里没有简单的解决办法。但我认为显而易见的是，全美各地的学区正越来越面临着不能再采取鸵鸟政策将头埋进沙子里的现实。
我放眼全国，费城投票决定关闭学校。奥斯汀投票决定关闭学校。洛杉矶、波特兰，他们都在进行这些讨论。因此，在某种程度上，这是一个更大的社会问题，如今都在公立学校集中显现。而且我认为越来越多的学区意识到我们必须直面它。
英文原文
>> Well, Pittsburgh has chosen to deal with this in a pretty specific way. And I think one takeaway is the way that they're dealing with it is trying to raise the floor for all students and specifically for the more vulnerable students that make up the majority of their school system. But the way that they decided to confront it in focusing on trying to lift the floor, they weren't paying as much attention to the ceiling. the students who maybe are higher achieving, maybe wealthier, have more agency and options in their family and there might be a leak at the top. There might be a leak through the ceiling and that's a gamble I think that Pittsburgh public schools is making. That is how they're doing it. Other districts might take a different path and either way you kind of have some risk to that because as I look around the country the typical pattern that I see is districts have this problem with enrollment. They kind of put it off year after year. There's controversial meetings, they don't do it, they don't do it, and then finally you have to start doing something. And districts are often faced with a few different choices, none of which are good. So you could do the Pittsburgh path, you close schools. It's very controversial. There's another option where you actually try to rightsize your staff for your shrinking student population. So you try to really intentionally lay off teachers, which is very unpopular and in some cases is not even possible because of different union negotiations. No easy solution here. But what I think is clear is that districts around the country are increasingly facing the reality that they can't put their heads in the sand. And I look around the country and Philadelphia voted to close schools. Austin voted to close schools. LA, Portland, they're having these discussions. And so, in some ways, this is a bigger societal problem all now coming to roost for public schools. And I think increasingly school districts are realizing we have to face it.好的，萨拉，非常感谢你。
英文原文
>> Well, Sarah, thank you so much.谢谢，娜塔莉。
英文原文
>> Thanks, Natalie.今日其他要闻
We'll be right back.: 我们马上回来。
英文原文
We'll be right back.Here's what else you need to know today.: 以下是今天你需要了解的其他要闻。
英文原文
Here's what else you need to know today.On Tuesday, House Republicans banded together to shelve an effort to impeach Defense Secretary Pete Hegsth on eight separate charges, including violating the Constitution to wage war in Iran.: 周二，众议院共和党人联合起来搁置了一项弹劾国防部长皮特·海格塞斯（Pete Hegseth）的行动。该弹劾包含八项独立指控，其中包括违反宪法对伊朗发动战争。
英文原文
On Tuesday, House Republicans banded together to shelve an effort to impeach Defense Secretary Pete Hegsth on eight separate charges, including violating the Constitution to wage war in Iran.The House voted 211 to 204 to refer the articles of impeachment to a committee, which allows Republicans to slow the process at least until Democrats take control next year.: 众议院以211票对204票通过将弹劾条款移交委员会审议，这使得共和党人能够放缓该进程，至少拖延至明年民主党接管控制权。
英文原文
The House voted 211 to 204 to refer the articles of impeachment to a committee, which allows Republicans to slow the process at least until Democrats take control next year.Only one Republican, Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky, who spearheaded the effort, voted with Democrats against doing so.: 只有一位共和党人——带头推动该弹劾努力的肯塔基州众议员托马斯·马西（Thomas Massie）——与民主党人一同投票反对搁置。
英文原文
Only one Republican, Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky, who spearheaded the effort, voted with Democrats against doing so.and House Republicans elected Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio to be their leader in the next Congress, elevating a fire brand who's been a close ally of President Trump. Jordan, who's the current chairman of the Judiciary Committee, will replace Speaker Mike Johnson next year. He'll play a critical role in his party's efforts to chart a path back to the majority, as well as to shield Trump and his administration from Democrats congressional investigations.: 众议院共和党人选举俄亥俄州众议员吉姆·乔丹（Jim Jordan）担任他们在下届国会的领袖，提升了这位一直是特朗普总统亲密盟友的激进人物。目前担任司法委员会主席的乔丹将在明年接替议长迈克·约翰逊（Mike Johnson）。他将在共和党重夺多数席位的努力中，以及保护特朗普及其政府免受民主党国会调查方面，发挥关键作用。
英文原文
and House Republicans elected Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio to be their leader in the next Congress, elevating a fire brand who's been a close ally of President Trump. Jordan, who's the current chairman of the Judiciary Committee, will replace Speaker Mike Johnson next year. He'll play a critical role in his party's efforts to chart a path back to the majority, as well as to shield Trump and his administration from Democrats congressional investigations.Today's episode was produced by Michael Simon Johnson, Stella Tan, Alex Stern, and Claire Tennis Getter. It was edited by Lisa Cow, fact checked by Andrea Lopez Crusado, contains music by Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Wonderle. Special thanks to Paige Cowitt.: 今天的节目由迈克尔·西蒙·约翰逊（Michael Simon Johnson）、斯特拉·谭（Stella Tan）、亚历克斯·斯特恩（Alex Stern）和克莱尔·特尼斯·盖特（Claire Tennis Getter）制作。由丽莎·考（Lisa Cow）编辑，安德里亚·洛佩兹·克鲁萨多（Andrea Lopez Crusado）核实事实，包含玛丽安·洛扎诺（Marian Lozano）的音乐，并由艾丽莎·莫克斯利（Alyssa Moxley）工程混音。我们的主题音乐由Wonderly创作。特别鸣谢佩奇·考伊特（Paige Cowitt）。
英文原文
Today's episode was produced by Michael Simon Johnson, Stella Tan, Alex Stern, and Claire Tennis Getter. It was edited by Lisa Cow, fact checked by Andrea Lopez Crusado, contains music by Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Wonderle. Special thanks to Paige Cowitt.That's it for the daily. I'm Natalie Ketro. See you tomorrow.: 今天的《The Daily》就到这里。我是娜塔莉·基特罗夫（Natalie Kitroeff）。明天见。