探访芒特普莱森特公墓：安大略省历任省长的百年政治传奇

Steve Paikin: Hello Unpoly fans, JMM Steve Pacin. We are here at Mount Pleasant Cemetery in Midtown Toronto about a I don't know 10 minute ride from TVO where we normally do our program. Yeah.

John Michael McGrath: And we are here today because we are going to take you on a bit of a tour of former premers of Ontario who are buried in this cemetery which is celebrating its 150th birthday this year.

John Michael McGrath: Yeah, that's right. So there are uh five premers who are buried at Mount Pleasant and their graves are marked uh in part because of a bill that was passed by the legislature. The uh grave sites of former premers act. The uh legislature uh marks these uh graves with a a plaque just to recognize uh their service. And there's one person who gets both a provincial uh uh memorial and a federal one. And we willh talk about that later.

Steve Paikin: Oh, don't give away the plot here. Don't give it away. Let's let's tease that out a little bit. Uh we're going to put up a map as well because we don't want to have all the fun here. We think you also should come to Mount Pleasant. This is a very easily navigable place uh if you follow the map and you can as well come to the grave sites of these former premers and learn a little bit more about them. And we're going to tell people a little bit more about them as well.

John Michael McGrath: Yeah, absolutely.

Steve Paikin: So, let's go do that.

Steve Paikin: Well, JMM, what's the first thing you notice about Alder Mitt?

John Michael McGrath: Uh that he has uh both a provincial marker and a federal one. And why does he have two markers?

Steve Paikin: Uh, well, because he was not just a premier of Ontario, he was also a federal politician and one of the fathers of Confederation at the I guess the Charlotte Town Conference in 1864.

John Michael McGrath: It says Quebec. Oh, Quebec conference 1864.

Steve Paikin: Which which uh I I guess you know started to plant the seeds which uh eventuated in Canada's creation and confederation.

John Michael McGrath: Took a few years of negotiations, but in 1867 we got a country out of it.

Steve Paikin: Exactly. So yes, a federal plaque for his federal work, a provincial plaque for being the longest serving premier of all time, right? 24 years he was premier of Ontario. I think we can confidently say that's a record that will never be broken.

John Michael McGrath: It seems difficult to imagine.

Steve Paikin: Although Doug Ford is, you know, going up a list pretty quickly right now.

John Michael McGrath: Yes.

Steve Paikin: Um, okay. A bunch of things we've got to say about Oliver Mow. obviously the first really significant premier in Ontario history having served as long as he did and we're going back to the 19th century now, right?

John Michael McGrath: Yeah. Not the first premier, but of of the early premers, by far the most significant uh really uh you know shaped the the province that we know and and and the relationship between the provinces and the federal government uh as much as anything.

Steve Paikin: That's the key because of course his relationship with Sir Johnny McDonald was notoriously bad. McDonald looking for a more national view of things. Moat being the first guy who really came onto the scene pledging provincial rights went to London after confederation as as a premier went to London to argue the the case for the provinces uh in disputes between the federal and the provincial government. And so, you know, we have now inherited this country, you know, more than a century century later that uh is is very decentralized where provinces have tons of power. And that is in large part because of arguments like the ones that Mitt uh fought and won uh again more than a century ago. Now we are looking at the face of his gravestone right now in which it has the basics you know who he was when he was born when he died who his spouse was but all of his accomplishments are on the backside. So let's go take a look at them because

John Michael McGrath: he was in public life for a very long time both federally and proincially. Yeah. And there are just sort of myriad details here about all of the different things he did. 1857 to 1864, member of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Canada,

Steve Paikin: back when Ontario and Quebec were a single province,

John Michael McGrath: right? So we're not we're not even Ontario yet technically speaking as a a province of Canada.

Steve Paikin: June 1864, Postmaster General of the Government of Canada. So he's a federal minister.

John Michael McGrath: Can I can I say one thing about that? Yeah. People may not understand just how big a deal the postmaster general was back in the day, but in an era when Canada had no standing army, when schools and hospitals were like were not massive uh public enterprises as they are today, holding the postmaster general, you might have actually had more direct employees under you than almost any other department in government.

Steve Paikin: And we keep going 1872 to 1896.

John Michael McGrath: That's the big one.

Steve Paikin: That's the biggie. First minister of the province of Ontario and attorney general for 24 years.

John Michael McGrath: Yes.

Steve Paikin: Not bad. And it goes on, right? Minister of justice for all of Canada, member of Parliament, senator, Lieutenant Governor of Ontario, died in office at Government House in Toronto. So this is somebody who was really premier, MP, MPP, senator, Lieutenant Governor, federal cabinet minister, provincial cabinet minister, local councilor in the city of Toronto. I don't think anyone's ever done that kind of a sweep of every level of government.

John Michael McGrath: every every single one. And and surely, we should have checked this before recording, but I think he had to be re-elected for each of those ministerial appointments back then.

Steve Paikin: Yes.

John Michael McGrath: Okay, there we go.

Steve Paikin: Yes. Fos show. Anyway, Oliver Mowat, a really significant person in the history of the province of Ontario. In fact, when we were coming here, when we were at the legislature, and you were waiting for the car, I asked a young guy who is an intern in the Legislature, I said, 'Who's the premier whose statue is right on the front lawn of the legislature?' And he knew it was Oliver Mowat.

John Michael McGrath: And he was a young guy at the I think he was a teenager, but there he was. Uh, do we want to check out the tree that's here?

Steve Paikin: Amazing. Onto our next premium.

John Michael McGrath: Onto the next one.

Steve Paikin: Okay, JMM, let's just get the chronology right here. So, Oliver Mo's been in for 24 years. He leaves. Arthur Hardy takes over for a few years. He leaves and then this guy, right, the honorable Sir George William Ross uh takes over and he uh has two terms, if I recall correctly, uh two terms in office. History doesn't always repeat, but sometimes it rhymes. In his uh second term, his government is beset by a number of controversies and scandals, including uh a question of whether to uh rescue the financially distressed steel maker in Sous St. Marie that is currently Al Steel. You know, 100 years later, uh we are still having a debate in this province about how much public support do we give to the steel industry. Different threats, different uh uh problems besetting the steel industry. But uh yeah, some things never change. One of the things that's clearly important in politics is timing. And unfortunately for Sir George Ross, uh his timing was not great. 24 years of MOE, then Hardy, then Ross. By the time 1905 came around, the liberals have been in power for almost three straight decades, and the public wanted change. He was the last liberal. They turfed him out. JP Whitney replaced him. Uh, but he did contribute to public life enough that I think it was King George V who knited him. So, he is Sir George William Ross.

John Michael McGrath: Yes.

Steve Paikin: On to our next one.

John Michael McGrath: On to the next one.

Steve Paikin: Okay. JMM here is the pride of Northern Ontario. Right. Yes. William Howard Hurst, the first ever premier based in Northern Ontario. He was the MPP for Sue St. Marie

John Michael McGrath: and and the only premier we've had from Sous Staint Marie.

Steve Paikin: That's right.

John Michael McGrath: Right.

Steve Paikin: Yeah. For sure.

John Michael McGrath: Yes.

Steve Paikin: And also the only premier who came into office after the death of the sitting premier, which also, you know, as we visit each of these grave sites, we want to say the thing that makes them particularly historically unique.

John Michael McGrath: Yes. And in Hurst's case, it was the death of his predecessor, JP Whitney, who left a letter behind saying, "I know all of you in caucus or cabinet think you should take over. This is the guy I want." And while it may not have been legally binding, it was morally binding, and Hurst took over.

Steve Paikin: Yeah. And he he oversaw five years uh including very uh tumultuous years uh World War I, granted the right to vote to women in Ontario. um uh got caught up in the politics of temperance as so many governments did in the early part of the 20th century um and uh then and then left office in 1919 I believe

John Michael McGrath: correct had the distinction of losing to a party that did not have a leader

Steve Paikin: right yes

John Michael McGrath: which is hard to do I mean there was a huge agricultural movement in the province of Ontario back then a real kind of uh well a quasi revolution by farmers who were upset at what was happening and they created the United Farmers of Ontario, a kind of an ad hoc party, uh, grassroots members who did not have a leader when the 1919 election happened,

Steve Paikin: right?

John Michael McGrath: And the farmers won and then they picked their leader.

Steve Paikin: Yes. At a time when, you know, Ontario was still predominantly an agricultural and a rural uh province. Uh you'd obviously seen some explosive growth from cities uh during the war, but uh still a time when uh farmers could be just a huge voting block and could swing elections and did

John Michael McGrath: and did absolutely. We should remember, I guess, a couple other things that Hurst did. Number one, before he became premier, when he was a minister in Whitney's cabinet, he was responsible for negotiating the boundaries with Manitoba of the province of Ontario. And as a result in the northwest of our province today, we have a lot of land that otherwise might not have been part of Ontario unless Hurst had had his way. He negotiated that and increased I think the land mass of the province of Ontario by what is it as much as 50% something like that. Huge huge huge expansion. Yeah. Huge. think the part of the province that they used to call New Ontario because and this whole sort of frontier mindset, you know,

Steve Paikin: because he was the lands and forests minister or something which back in the day was a bit like being the minister of health today. They had a lot of responsibility. They had a lot of the money and of course back in the 19s was a lot of new frontier up there.

John Michael McGrath: Yeah. William Howard Hurst, the favorite premier of uh mayor of Sus Marie and fan of the podcast, Matthew Shoemaker. You've got it. Here you go, Matthew. We are here. Okay, JMM. The first thing we notice here about Premier Ferguson is that even though his name was George Howard Ferguson, no one called him George. He was better known as G. Howard Ferguson. He went with the first initial and middle name. And here's the story. JP Whitney is the premier. He dies in office. The only one to die in office. Ferguson is part of his cabinet and would love to succeed him. But Whitney has left a note saying, "I want Hurst to succeed me." There's no legal authority to that note, but there is moral authority. But basically, the note was saying, "Ferguson and the other guy who ran Ontario Hydro, Adam, who also was in the cabinet, and say, "You guys chill. I want Hurst right now. Your time may come later." And in fact, that's exactly what happened, right? Hurst took over, eventually lost the government five years later. The farmers came in for four years, the United Farmers of Ontario, and then who replaced the farmers? Our friend Ferguson,

Steve Paikin: this guy right here. And you know, we talked a bit about uh the the rise of uh the temperance movement with Hurst. And Ferguson uh really is uh the premier who starts sort of dialing back some of the enthusiasm for uh uh prohibition in Ontario. You could ascribe noble motives to it or you could say that the Ontario government needed money and they wanted alcohol tax revenue and Ferguson passed the law that allowed uh 2.2% beers to be sold in Ontario which they uh the public started calling Fergus foam.

John Michael McGrath: That's right. Fergie's foam. That's exactly what it was called. As we also uh note was the case frequently with premers back in the day. Uh he wasn't just the premier of Ontario. He ended up having a a career in public service after that as well. So he went on to become the high commissioner for Canada in Great Britain. This was after his premiership was well done. And I guess the other thing we should note here as well and you really see it well on this headstone. The job technically was not called premier of Ontario back then. The job technically was called Prime Minister of Ontario. And it stayed that way for a long time. It stayed that way until Bill Davis. Bill Davis was the guy who actually changed the title from Prime Minister of Ontario to Premier of Ontario because he believed Canada should really only have one prime minister and therefore he changed it to premier. But all the way back, you know, from I guess from the beginning until the 1971 PC leadership convention when Mr. Davis won, u it was prime minister of Ontario. And one of the other things about Ferguson that is worth mentioning here is uh the relationship between uh Queens Park and the uh franophhone minority in Ontario. Uh prior premier had uh passed uh regulation 17 which is infamous for um forbidding the teaching of French in uh Ontario public schools. You know Ferguson uh dialed that back somewhat. we can talk about sort of the the um interests of provinces versus the federal government. Uh one of the reasons that Ferguson uh wanted to listen to some of the criticisms of franophones both in Ontario and in Quebec was that he was at that time making common cause with the premier of Quebec against what they saw as like overweening federal power. And one way to uh improve relations with Quebec was to go a little bit easier on the franophone minority here in Ontario. G. Howard Ferguson. It might be too early in the day for some of Fergie's foam. Maybe we'll do that later. But anyway, shall we move on to our next premier?

Steve Paikin: Let's go to the next one.

Steve Paikin: Okay, John Michael, let's situate our next premier in history.

John Michael McGrath: Yes.

Steve Paikin: This is George Stewart Henry.

John Michael McGrath: Yes.

Steve Paikin: Let's go back. Howard Ferguson is the premier of Ontario. He served seven years. Then Prime Minister R. B. Bennett says, 'I need you in London to be Canada's High Commissioner to the UK.' Ferguson says, 'Okay.' He steps down, and George Henry takes over.

John Michael McGrath: Right. He becomes premier in 1930 and you know the the great depression had started. We always date it as beginning in 1929, but you know the actual economic effects took some time to roll out and Henry was in office basically for the four worst years of the Great Depression.

Steve Paikin: Not that there was much he probably could do. I mean, when there are international macroeconomic forces at play...

John Michael McGrath: yes,

Steve Paikin: uh you're you know, your tools are limited. And

John Michael McGrath: he did love highway building.

Steve Paikin: He did which he was he was the minister of highways before he got into uh the premiership. So people will not be surprised to hear that Highway 401 was partly his vision, and the Queen Elizabeth Way (QEW) began under his administration.

John Michael McGrath: Right.

Steve Paikin: Right. He took over from Ferguson, served uh a period of time that he was entitled to serve and then when he went to the people in 1934 got crushed by Mitch Hepburn and the liberals. And a fun fact: between 1934 and 2002, no Tory premier took over, went into an election, and lost until...

John Michael McGrath: And this is so embarrassing I'm blanking on.

Steve Paikin: And that man's name was Ernie Ees. There we go.

John Michael McGrath: So Ernie Ees was the first Tory premier since George Henry to take over, be premier, call an election, and lose. He lost in 2003 to Dalton McGuinty.

Steve Paikin: Ah, okay.

John Michael McGrath: Henry was actually from around the Toronto area, but he had a father and an uncle who owned a sawmill on Manatulan Island and in fact survived a shipwreck on the lake when they were shipping supplies back and forth from Manitoulin back to Toronto. They were left floating in open water on a lake vessel.

Steve Paikin: perilously on the open water. Anyway, that's a little piece of trivia about George Stewart Henry who has stuff in Toronto named after him. Right. If you go to North York, there's a George Henry Boulevard and there are Henry farms in Toronto as well. Wasn't premier for long but left his mark. Well, and you know, if you drive on the QEW, uh, either on a daily commute or just to get around, uh, that was a highway that started under Henry's watch. And, you know, if I could sort of zoom out just a little bit more, I mean, you mentioned Manatulan Island. um you know when he was going to Manito and that would have still been a trip done by rail and steamship but because of the massive expansion of highway building uh that started under him uh you know it really created the the culture that we have in Ontario like the the idea of like going out to cottage country when we talk about driving out to Mskoka that that that vacation ideal that that the the province really uh supported in a very big way uh after World War II in particular That's possible because of the highway network, right? We we built highways out to these places far away from cities and people bought vacation properties. Um, you know, you can now do that on Manatulan Island and it's uh you can take the provinially run ferry or you can take the long way. But uh it's all possible in large part because of the highways and again uh started under Henry's watch. Now we should state for the record as well because the first thing you observed is my goodness this guy wasn't premier for all that long and look at the size of the obelisk that he has appointed to himself here. The reality is he is buried here but so are his parents. Yes,

John Michael McGrath: so is his wife.

Steve Paikin: So is a brother so are I mean there there are

John Michael McGrath: people

Steve Paikin: numerous relatives who are buried here along with him. So this is really more of a family plot and it's not just for him alone.

John Michael McGrath: died as recently as the 80s and 90s.

Steve Paikin: Yeah.

John Michael McGrath: So yes. So, this is a family plot and it's not just for him alone.

Steve Paikin: Yes. And and a uh a very substantial I think the most substantial marker we've seen today. It's a massive granite monument.

Steve Paikin: Well, JMM, through the magic of television, we need to say two things off the top. First of all, we have lost our jackets because it is...

John Michael McGrath: Unseasonably warm for October.

Steve Paikin: Unseasonably warm for October is exactly right. And we've also skipped backwards in time.

John Michael McGrath: We want to tell you now about the man who was the second premier of Ontario. Funny story about Edward Blake...

Steve Paikin: One of your favorite facts.

Steve Paikin: It is. But number two was Edward Blake. And one of the reasons that almost nobody remembers Edward Blake is because he was only premier for about a year. And when the dual mandate ended, he chose federal politics over provincial politics.

John Michael McGrath: But he was premier number two.

Steve Paikin: Yes. And may have, despite his short tenure, may actually have one of the more interesting uh political careers out there after the premiership because he was of course the leader of the federal Liberal Party. And then after his time in Canadian politics was done, he moved to the United Kingdom and sat in the British House of Commons as an Irish nationalist MP. So, if you're looking for somebody with a really unique resume in Canadian politics, Edward Blake is definitely up there.

Steve Paikin: We are going to finish our tour with, if I'm allowed, an opinion on this, I think one of my favorite premers in Ontario history and one of Ontario's greatest premers. Look at this monument...

Steve Paikin: Yeah. I said, "Who's it named after?" He said, "John Robarts." I said, "Correct." I said, "Who's that?" He said, "I don't know." Well, for all you University of Toronto students and anybody else for that matter, let me introduce you to John P. Robarts, the 17th, as it says again on the headstone here, the 17th prime minister of Ontario. John Roberts, I think, has the most Shakespearean story of any premier we've ever had. We've had 26 of them. Mr. Roberts had a truly great time in public office. His nickname was the chairman of the board because he wanted to bring a kind of a business-like approach to government. Uh he believed in public service and public services. Uh funnily enough, he was against Medicare. He thought Medicare was quote unquote a Machavelian scheme because he said the feds are going to suck us into this by agreeing to pay half the bill and then they're going to they're going to lessen their support year after year. He wasn't wrong about that.

John Michael McGrath: No. and and a a dilemma that you you see continuing uh both before Robarts and after Roarts. This is the constant dilemma with any kind of federal provincial cost sharing. The deal sounds great at first and uh but premers are cautious and not without historical reason.

Steve Paikin: Yeah. Now, uh it it behooves me of course to mention that his minister of education and colleges and universities was a guy named Bill Davis. And in the Roart's years with Mr. Davis at the helm. We got five new universities in Ontario. I won't remember all their names, but York, Laurentin, Brock, couple of more. We got the whole college system, right? The whole college system came in in the Roart's years. We got the Ontario Institute for Studies and Education, Oise. And there was one more

John Michael McGrath: something. I'm I'm I'm blanking on it.

Steve Paikin: I got it. TVO. They also created TVO. the Robart's government did that. So it it was a very consequential time for the province. His education minister, Bill Davis, times were so good, he traveled Ontario and would open three schools a day. Uh that's how much building they were doing at this time. He was from London and his wife wouldn't move. She wanted to stay in London, Ontario where she was kind of a grandam of society. And so he said, "Well, if you won't come with me, then we're done." and they split up. Mr. Robart then had a second marriage to a woman 28 years his junior. She was an American divorce named Katherine Sycapuse and her influence on this headstone is available for all to see. It says at the bottom, "Rest in peace, my darling Jonathan, beloved husband and dearest friend." Now, nobody called him Jonathan except her. And there were certainly many of Mr. Robert's friends from politics and from London who when they saw that inscription on the bottom thought that's not him. He wouldn't want that. But that's what his widow wanted. There are two trilliums on the headstone which of course uh indicate the official flower for Ontario. And I think the other thing that's interesting about this is how modest this headstone is.

Steve Paikin: This was one of our best premers. I think he's the fourth longest serving premier of all time. And yet a very modest headstone. not some giant obelisk, fairly modest with the plaque as all of the premers now have. So that's our tour of Ontario premers who are buried within about uh 15 minutes drive of TVO Studios.

John Michael McGrath: Yep. Absolutely. And uh you know I think a worthwhile uh may maybe for some people it might take an afternoon. Um but you could certainly do it at least while the weather stays nice, you could certainly do it on a bike. Um, and uh, uh, aside from everything else, uh, some gorgeous scenery around

Steve Paikin: indeed. And I'm glad we've ended up here on Mr. Robert's grave site because every October 18th since I wrote the book about him, I come here and I do that because no one else from his family can, right? Both of his kids are dead. His second wife has moved back to the United States. His first wife is also dead. Uh, I know there are Roart's cousins in town. I don't know if they come to visit, but uh I've always felt a bit of a responsibility to do so. So, um given how close we are to the anniversary, I'm glad I'm here today and I'm glad I'm here with you. Back inside of the studio.