早期创业的“脏活”
在早期阶段,我们做了大量手动且枯燥(Unsexy)的工作。例如,我们尝试雇佣最初的数据标注团队,但他们的准确度不够。所以我花了大量时间亲自在文档上标记框框。如果把你处理过的页面叠起来,在我们还没有完全自动化 Stripe 账单和设置之前,那个高度实际上相当于珠穆朗玛峰的 10 倍。我会手动设置每一个订阅。
尽管这些事情是重复的,尽管就工作内容而言可能很无聊,但这没关系,因为我关心的不是我是否在做最光鲜的工作。我更关心的是:公司在前行吗? 你很幸运能做这些事,因为这意味着你签下了一个新客户。这是一种特权。
Original English
We did a ton of manual unsexy work in the early days. Like we tried hiring an initial data labeling team and they weren't accurate enough. So I would spend a lot of my time just labeling boxes on documents. If you stacked all the pages that Reducto processed, it would actually be something like 10 times the height of Mount Everest back when we were still fully unautomated for Stripe billing and setup. Like I would manually set up every single subscription.
And those things, even though they were repetitive, even though they were maybe boring in terms of the work that you're doing, were okay because the thing that I cared about is not "am I doing the most glamorous work." It was more so like: is the company moving forward? You're lucky to be able to do that because that means you're signing up a new customer. Like it is a privilege that you get to do that.
关于 Reducto
大家好,我是 Adit Abraham,Reducto 的联合创始人兼 CEO。Reducto 是一个帮助 AI 团队解析、提取和编辑各种复杂非结构化数据(Unstructured Data: 无法直接存入关系数据库的数据,如 PDF、图像等)的平台,适用于各类语言模型用例。
Reducto 的增长速度惊人。我们已经从 Andreessen Horowitz、Benchmark 和 First Round 等顶级投资者那里筹集了总计 1.08 亿美元的资金。今天,Reducto 为世界上一些最好的公司提供数据摄取服务,这不仅包括大型的财富 10 强企业,也包括像 Harvey、Rogo 和 Meror 这样的新兴领先 AI 公司。迄今为止,我们已经为他们处理了超过 10 亿页的数据,并且这一数字还在每周持续增长。
Original English
Hi, my name is Adit Abraham. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Reducto. Reducto is a platform that helps AI teams parse, extract, and edit any sort of complex unstructured data for all sorts of language model use cases. Reducto has grown incredibly quickly. We've raised 108 million in total funding from incredible investors like Andreessen Horowitz, Benchmark, and First Round.
Today, Reducto powers ingestion for some of the best companies in the world. That includes really large Fortune 10 enterprises, but also newer leading AI companies like Harvey, Rogo, and Meror. To date, we've processed more than a billion pages for them and are continuing to grow every single week.
只要能做 App,不上大学也行
从小我就总有一些副业爱好。高中时,我看到一篇文章说《Flappy Bird》的创作者每天靠广告收入赚 5 万美元。于是,我和我最好的朋友立刻就有了一种本能反应:别管学校了,别管那些了,我们就要做 App,那就是我们的未来。在某个时刻,我们甚至讨论过不上大学。
虽然事情并没有那样发展——我们尝试了一些东西,但最终还是去上了大学,追求了更长远的职业生涯——但我认为这是一种很好的激励,它展示了不走寻常路(Going off the beaten path)如何能为人们带来离群值(Outlier: 统计学术语,指极端的成功或异常结果)般的回报。即使我们今天不再做游戏开发,但我确实认为,看到个人的努力(有时只是从副业项目开始)逐渐演变成更宏大的事业,是非常有价值的。
Original English
Ever since I was young, I always used to have side hobbies. In high school, I saw an article that said something like the creator of Flappy Bird is making $50,000 a day on ad revenue. So, me and my best friend in high school just immediately had this gut reaction of, you know, forget school, forget all of that, we're just going to make apps and that's going to be our future. At some point, we even discussed not going to college.
Things didn't work out that way. We tried a few things but did end up going to college and pursuing a longer career from there. But I think it was a really nice inspiration that kind of showed how going off the beaten path can lead to outlier outcomes for folks. Even though we don't work on game development today, I do think there's something very valuable about seeing individual effort that sometimes just starts as side projects spiral into something much, much bigger.
遇见 Ronic
这最终引导我去了麻省理工学院(MIT)攻读计算机科学本科。记得我在上第一门研究生级别的机器学习课程时——那是一门关于元学习(Meta-learning: 教模型如何学习)的课——课程第一天,教授介绍了 Ronic。此时 Ronic 还是个大一新生,可能才刚到校园第一周,但教授介绍说:“嘿大家,这是 Ronic,他将教大家如何做第一个习题集。”
Ronic 是这门主要由博士生组成的课程的助教。这对我来说太疯狂了。这个人才刚来到校园——一个汇聚了真正聪明和杰出人才的校园——就已经处于某种顶尖水平了。我们从那时起变得非常亲密。当 Ronic 第一次建议我们一起做点什么时,我立刻答应了。我完全没有犹豫要不要辞职之类的。他就是那种我足够钦佩的人,与他合作简直是理所当然(No-brainer)的事。
Original English
That eventually led to me going to MIT, did my undergrad in computer science. I remember I was taking my first grad-level ML course. So it was a course on meta-learning, like teaching models to learn. And on the first day of the course, the professor introduces Ronic, who at this point is a freshman. Like it's his first week on campus probably. And he frames it as, "Hey everyone, meet Ronic, he's going to walk you through how to do the first p-sets."
So Ronic was a learning assistant for this course that was primarily PhDs. And that was crazy to me. Like it was this person that even though he had just come onto campus, a campus with really smart and exceptional people, he was already at sort of the top. And so we became really close from there. The first time Ronic suggested that we could work on something together, that was an immediate yes for me. Like I didn't think twice about leaving my job or anything like that. He was just somebody that I admired enough for it to just be a no-brainer.
痛苦的转型:从“Remember All”到 Reducto
在公司发展过程中,实际上在 YC(Y Combinator)批次之前,我们曾多次放弃已有的收入。我们测试了不同的想法,到了人们愿意为之付费的地步,但我们判定:他们付费的紧迫性,或者说他们对产品的需求程度,还不足以让我们以此为业。
为了让你具体了解这在销售时是什么样子:当时的 Remember All 是第一个为语言模型提供的长期记忆 API,用于记住用户过去提到的事情。我们会存储重要的上下文并在相关时检索它。但当我们与客户谈论实施时间等问题时,我们会发现他们最多只愿付每月 50 或 100 美元。这从来不是他们需要关注的首要任务,属于那种**“有了挺好”**(Nice-to-have)的东西。
Original English
So in the course of the company, before the YC batch, we actually gave up on revenue multiple times. We tested different ideas, got to a point where people were willing to pay for it, but decided that the urgency with which they were willing to pay for it, or the need to which they wanted the product, wasn't high enough for us to want it. And so just to give you a sense of what this looked like tangibly when we were selling Remember All, we would constantly find, you know, at best people were willing to pay $50 a month or maybe $100 a month.
So Remember All as a product was at that time the first long-term memory API for language models to remember things that you'd mentioned in the past. We would store context that was important and retrieve it when it was relevant. As you would talk about things like implementation times, it was never the number one thing that they needed to focus on. And this was kind of one of those things that was nice to have.
市场拉力:一记响亮的耳光
相比之下,我们为 Remember All 构建的功能之一是文件管理。人们会说:“嘿,你们在管理用户的聊天记录,能不能也管理他们上传的文件?”就像一个托管的 RAG(检索增强生成)服务。我们将此视为一个用现成工具就能添加的简单功能。
但当我们演示 Remember All 时,我们发现人们对我们管理上传文件这一事实感到非常兴奋。我们投入了大量时间来改进文件管理,开始训练自己的模型。我们在 YC 论坛上发了一篇技术博客,介绍我们要如何分割文档。那甚至没有被包装成一个干净的演示,只是一个非常简单的 Streamlit 应用:你上传文档,我们在文档上画框。
令人惊讶的是,这里简直像是他们在推着我们走(Pulling us)。他们立即开始回复:“嘿,这比我在现有供应商那里看到的还要好。这是一个托管 API 吗?你有 Stripe 链接吗?我可以购买吗?我可以开始使用吗?”
这就像是一记响亮的耳光,提醒我们市场对这个产品的需求有多强烈。当我们考虑是否应该在这个领域拥有高信念时,这是最让我们在意的事情。我们知道长期记忆在一年、两年或三年内肯定需要存在,但我们想要解决的是人们急需解决的问题。我们认定 Remember All 不是那个答案。
Original English
In comparison, one of the things that we built for Remember All is people would say, "Hey, you're managing the user's chat history. Can you also manage the files that they upload?" Almost like a managed RAG service. And we saw that as, you know, a simple feature that we would add with off-the-shelf tools. When we would demo Remember All, we would find that people would get really excited about the fact that we were managing the files that they uploaded.
We had put so much time into making that file management better. We started training our own models. We did a technical blog in YC's forum talking through how we segment documents. That wasn't packaged as, you know, a clean demo or anything like that. It was a really simple Streamlit app. It was: you would upload a document and we would draw boxes on that document.
And surprisingly here it was almost like they were pulling us. They immediately started replying with, "Hey, these are better results than what I'm seeing from my existing vendor. Is this a hosted API? Do you have a Stripe link? Like can I purchase this? Can I start using this?" It's almost like a slap in the face in terms of how much the market wants the product. And so when we were considering whether or not we should have high conviction in the space or not, that was the biggest thing that concerned us. We knew that in a year, two years, three years, in some span of time, long-term memory would need to exist. But what we wanted was to solve the problems that people needed solved immediately, to solve the things that they were actively looking for a solution for. And we decided that Remember All was not that.
与客户成为设计伙伴
一个人可以通过很多不同的方式来证明你的产品对他们有多重要。不仅仅是钱,更是他们愿意投入时间与你一起让产品变得伟大。
我们服务于非常密集的金融、医疗和保险用例,这些数据你在互联网上永远找不到。很快,我们开始遇到这样的客户:他们尝试过公共文档并看到了卓越的性能,但随后他们会带着最深奥(Esoteric)的例子来找我们。比如,医生在页面底部做注释,你需要理解它与顶部的内容相关;或者是包含数千行数据的密集财务表格。
好消息是,我们的客户希望我们解决这些问题。所以我们一直保持着这种类似**“设计伙伴”**(Design Partner)的关系:他们会带着反馈来找我们,我们会日复一日地迭代以改进模型。当你修正了那个反馈,他们会告诉你这是否有效。到第一周结束时,你已经与他们取得了巨大的进展。这意味着他们真的很在乎,想确保你的产品是优秀的。你们在同一个团队,你想一起让产品变得更好,因为我们所做的工作也直接帮助了他们。
Original English
There are quite a few different ways that somebody can demonstrate how much your product means to them. It's not just the money, it's the time that they're willing to put into making the product great together. We've put a ton of time into, you know, aggregating data. It's a big part of what we do and it's a big part of why we've been able to train state-of-the-art models, but production data is different. We work with really intensive financial, healthcare, insurance use cases that you're never going to find on the internet.
And so, really quickly, we started having customers that, you know, had tried public documents and saw exceptional performance, but they would come to us with the most esoteric examples imaginable. Like we've seen really hard cases where a doctor annotated things and you know they just put things at the bottom of the page and you were supposed to understand that it related to the thing at the top. We see really intensive financial tables with thousands of rows of data, everything along those lines.
The nice thing is our customers want us to solve those and so we've always had this almost design partner-like relationship where they will come to us with that sort of feedback and we will iterate day after day after day to make the models better. And when you fix that feedback, they end up telling you whether or not that worked or it didn't. And you iterate by the end of that first week, you've already made a ton of progress with them. And that is really meaningful in that they care to make sure that your product is great. Like you're on the same team, you want to make the product better together because the work that we do directly helps them too.
建立极致的信任
从早期到现在,我们会与所有客户建立单独的 Slack 频道。我有他们的电话号码,我们会直接通话。如果他们遇到问题,他们会直接打给我们,比如:“嘿,这个没跑通,我们需要这个给一个大客户用。”我们会工作到深夜以确保为他们解决问题,因为我们不会轻视人们在早期阶段决定信任我们这一点。
他们有充分的理由不选我们,他们完全可以选择一家已经存在了十年的成熟公司。回报他们信任的部分方式,就是在个人层面上为他们提供支持。所以即使在今天,如果一家公司有问题,他们可以直接联系 Ronic 或我。他们选择 Reducto 所获得的一部分价值,就是把我们当作他们的数据摄取团队。
Original English
And so from the early days even to now, we would set up individual Slack channels with all of our customers. I have their phone numbers, like we would call directly and if they ran into issues they would just call us. Like they would tell us, "Hey, like this isn't working, we need this for a big customer," and we would work late into the nights to make sure that it was working for them because we don't take it lightly that people decided to trust us from an early stage.
They have many reasons to not. They have all the reasons in the world to choose an established company that you know has been around for a decade. And part of the way to pay back the trust that they've given us is to be there for them on an individual level. So even today, you know, if a company has an issue, they can just ping Ronic or me directly. Part of what they're getting with Reducto is us as their ingestion team.
公开展示的力量
我们本可以只依赖营销,说“嘿,这是最好的产品,这是最先进的”。但许多公司都可以这么说。另一方面,我们可以做的是哪怕平台还不完美,也要把产品放在人们面前,让他们用自己最难的文档去验证它是否有效,以此证明你说的是真的。这直接转化为公司的快速增长。
至少在我们的案例中,这种公开性(Being public)意味着那些原本可能会忽略 Reducto 的公司变得非常感兴趣。当我们还是一家只有两个人的公司时,一家万亿美元级的企业决定预约演示。他们预约的原因是因为我们有那个公共游乐场(Playground),他们上传了在其他所有供应商那里都失败了的困难文档。一旦他们看到那个奏效了,这就证明了联系我们是合理的。
如果我们当时对我们正在构建的东西遮遮掩掩,我们可能永远无法与他们通上电话。当我们说我们是市场上最准确的产品时,我们是认真的。这里有一些例子,但如果你想进一步了解,你可以自己测试。
Original English
There's a world where we just relied on marketing. Hey, it's the best product. Hey, it's state-of-the-art. All those things. But there are many companies that can say that. And on the flip side, the other thing that we could do is actually put the product in front of people even if it wasn't a perfect platform to let them see on their hardest documents that it works to prove what you're saying is true. And that translated to the company growing really quickly.
At least in our case, being public in that way just meant that companies that otherwise probably would have ignored Reducto became really interested. Like when we were a two-person company, a trillion dollar enterprise decided to book a demo. And the reason why they booked a demo is because we had that public playground where they uploaded hard documents that they'd seen fail on every other vendor. And once they saw that work, that justified reaching out.
And if we hadn't done that, if we were this two-person company of, you know, 20-some year olds, I find it hard to imagine that they would even be interested in engaging with us. If we'd been shy about what we were building, we probably would have never gotten on the phone with them. When we say that we are the most accurate product in the market, we really mean it. Here are some examples, but if you want to see further, like you can test that for yourself.
选择投资者:在危机时刻
很多早期创始人从风投机构品牌的角度思考问题,他们只把顶级 VC 视为那家公司本身。但归根结底,最重要的是那个和你合作的个人合伙人,他将是你未来 10 年的合作伙伴。他们会出现在你所有的高光时刻,也会出现在公司的糟糕时刻:当你不得不解雇员工时,当你失去合同时,或者发生公关危机时。
观察他们在情况不妙时的互动方式非常重要。我记得有一次,我们的种子轮投资者 Liz(注:Liz Wessel from First Round)几乎从不休息。如果我在晚上 10 点给她发短信,她在 10:05 就会回复。
有一次,她在百老汇和丈夫看演出——这几乎是她唯一为自己留出的时间。不幸的是,我们当时正好遇到了 OpenAI 的宕机。Ronic 疯狂地给她发消息:“嘿,我们要怎么办?我们的密钥不工作了,客户很生气。”
尽管那是她仅有的私人时间,她还是立刻走了出来。她开始给她的关系网打电话,很快就把 OpenAI 的首席产品官叫到了电话上,试图帮我们解决问题——即使对于 OpenAI 来说,我们并非重要到需要这种待遇的客户。
这些合作伙伴致力于帮助公司成功,这非常重要。所以,如果你是一位正在考虑向谁融资的早期创始人,花点时间真正了解这种合作关系会是什么样的,因为这是你必须要做的最重要的决定之一。
Original English
I had known quite a few investors from just the course of building the company. And I think a lot of early stage founders think in terms of firm brand. Like they only think of tier one VCs as the actual firm which you know many of these firms have been around for decades and you know have their own reputation from them. But at the end of the day the thing that matters most is ideally whoever you're raising money from, like that individual partner is somebody that you're going to be partnering with for the next 10 years. They're going to be there in all of your great successes... but they'll also be there for the bad moments of the company. They'll be there when you have to, you know, let an employee go. They'll be there when you lose a contract. They'll be there when you have a big, I don't know, media incident, whatever could happen in the lifetime of the company.
But it's really important to see how their interactions changed when things weren't going well. I remember there was a moment where Liz, our seed investor, actually basically never takes time off. If I text her at 10:00 p.m., she's replying at 10:05. She's getting on the phone like doing whatever. And one of the only moments where she was taking time for herself, I think she was at a Broadway show with her husband tragically. Like I wish we hadn't done this. But we had an OpenAI outage at the same time.
And so Ronic was like frantically, you know, messaging her like, "Hey, like what do we do? Our keys aren't working. Customers are upset." And even though it was one of the only times that she had to herself, she just immediately stepped out. She started calling people in her network and very quickly actually had the chief product officer at the company on the phone trying to help us with our issue and we were not an important enough customer for them to be doing that. These partners are committed to helping the company succeed and that is really important. So if you're an early stage founder thinking about who to raise from, take the time to actually understand what that is going to look like because it's one of the most important decisions you'll have to make.
全员皆兵与未来愿景
每一次激动人心的时刻背后,采访中很少讨论的是为了到达那一刻所付出的代价。当我们拿下第一个真正的大型企业合同时,那是一个本地部署(On-prem)项目,而我们之前从未做过。我们没有基础设施工程师,也没有庞大的组织来分配责任。
我们会醒来立刻去办公室,一直工作到筋疲力尽。我们最多睡几个小时,然后回去再试一次,一次又一次。大家都全身心投入,做公司的任何事情。这里没有所谓“如果你是工程师就不需要做客户支持”的概念,也没有“如果你是运营人员就不需要为 ML 团队标注数据”的概念。因为每个人都想看到公司成功。
在我看来,Reducto 不仅仅是解析。它的意义在于拥有连接人类数据与这种应用于所有数据的新层级智能的连接层。今天我们看到用 Reducto 构建的产品不仅仅是阅读文档,它们实际上在为最终客户创建全新的文档,通过代理工作流(Agentic Workflows: AI 能够自主规划和执行任务的工作流)进行端到端的工作。
在未来,大多数 AI 产品将由一部分智能(由基础模型公司提供)和一部分上下文(Context)组成。我们希望 Reducto 能成为你与该上下文交互的最佳方式,就像一个你聚合在一起并应用于特定用例的积木。
Original English
I think with every moment that is really exciting in a company, the thing that isn't discussed in interviews is what it took to get to that moment. Um, like when we were landing our first really big enterprise contract, it was an on-prem deployment and we had never done an on-prem deployment before. You know, we didn't have infrastructure engineers on team, we weren't this large org that could divvy up responsibilities.
We would wake up, we would immediately go to the office and we would be in the office until we were too exhausted to continue working. We would sleep for at most a few hours and then we would go back and we would try again and again and again. People diving in and doing anything at the company. There's no sort of notion of "hey if you're an engineer you don't need to do customer support." There's no notion of like "hey you know if you're an ops person you don't need to label data for the ML team" because everybody just wants to see the company succeed.
Um, and the company succeeds when all of these things work, when the product works, when customers are happy. And people don't think of their job in terms of whatever their role title is. They think of it in the capacity that they can help the company move forward. And so what I see Reducto as, it's not really just parsing. It's what does it mean to have this layer that connects human data to this new level of intelligence that applies across all of that data.
Um, we're seeing products built with Reducto today that don't just read the documents, they actually create net new documents for their end customers. Like they do end-to-end work with agentic workflows. In the future, most AI products will be some component of intelligence. That is what the foundation model companies provide, but it will be some components of context as well. And we want Reducto to be the best way that you interact with that context, like a building block that you aggregate together and apply it to a specific use case.
📌 文中提及的人物和组织
人物: Adit Abraham, Raunak Chowdhuri, Liz Wessel
公司/组织: Reducto, OpenAI, Stripe, Andreessen Horowitz, Benchmark, First Round, Y Combinator, Harvey, Rogo, Meror