[Michael Barbaro]: What? What is that doing snapping? Just...

[Staff]: Oh, just some just testing.

[Michael Barbaro]: Looks like we've already got some people going in.

[Staff]: Just to the office.

[Michael Barbaro]: Yeah, just the office. From New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. Hello. This is the daily. They're here today to hear what Michigan thinks about the race between Abdul El-Sayed and Haley Stevens.

[Michael Barbaro]: A few days ago, my colleague, political correspondent Michael Cruz, traveled to Michigan with two producers from the Daily, AA Cherved and Anna Foley to report on the most closely watched Democratic primary of the year.

[Michael Barbaro]: A race for US Senate that not only tests the growing appeal of left-wing populism, but could also mark a turning point in a long-running debate among Democratic voters about the importance of electability.

[Michael Barbaro]: How many of you are going to vote on Tuesday, August 4th? It is Tuesday, August 4th. So, Michael Cruz, happy to have you on the Daily. I believe this is your first time on the show.

[Michael Cruz]: It is. Longtime listener, first time caller. Happy to be here.

[Michael Barbaro]: Well, I'm a longtime admirer, so I'm glad to have you. You just got back from a reporting trip to Michigan with two producers from the Daily. And I wanted to start by asking you to explain why in your mind the Democratic primary that's happening today in Michigan is such an important moment in this long-running battle over the future of the Democratic Party.

[Michael Cruz]: It is to date the most important moment in this whole midterm cycle when we are thinking about the question of what the Democratic Party is and where it is headed. Because I think in Michigan, we have the purest test yet of whether a progressive vision of the Democratic Party can succeed in American politics.

[Michael Cruz]: In the last year or so, we've seen compelling progressive victories, but in a certain kind of place, in blue places, Zoran Mandani in New York, congressional primaries in Philadelphia and Denver. Graham Platner felt a little bit like a test case, but his scandals, the way his campaign ended, hard to sort of extrapolate grand conclusions from Maine. So here in Michigan, we have a race that feels like a much better, truer test of this fight between progressives and moderates. And that's because, Michael, this race is happening in a swing state in the middle of the country. Trump won here in 2016 and 2024.

[Michael Barbaro]: And if the progressive candidate wins this election in Michigan, it would really reorient our understanding of the progressive movement's appeal in our politics at this point in time.

[Michael Cruz]: Right? All right. And just to put a really fine point on it, it would show that in places that we think of as inherently moderate, Democratic primary voters are ready to lurch meaningfully to the left. And of course, this test case you're describing is happening in a race where the stakes are already quite high just based on the math of the United States Senate.

[Michael Barbaro]: Right? This is a Senate seat that Democrats almost have to hold if they have any shot of flipping the Senate. And whichever Democrat wins on Tuesday, has a formidable challenger come November because Mike Rogers, the Republican waiting for one of these two candidates, ran for Michigan's other Senate seat two years ago and lost by not even 20,000 votes to Alyssa Slotkin. Very much a more centrist, more moderate Democrat.

[Michael Barbaro]: So the question of who comes out of this primary is critical for Democrats hopes this year. So introduce us to the two candidates who embody this latest chapter of that long-running clash between the incrementalists, the moderates, and the progressives who would like to bust it all up. So, the more progressive candidate is Abdul El-Sayed.

[Abdul El-Sayed]: I'm running for US Senate because in the state that built the American dream, it shouldn't be this hard just to get by.

[Michael Cruz]: He's 41 years old, a former gubernatorial candidate in 2018, former public health official. I grew up all American here, became a doctor to help people, and spent my career making government deliver for us. He is running on Medicare for all anti-Israel platform. Wants to cut aid to Israel's efforts in Gaza. Keep that taxpayer money here to invest in public infrastructure, public schools.

[Abdul El-Sayed]: The disease is the corruption of our politics by billionaires and corporations.

[Michael Cruz]: It's worth noting though that he does not call himself a socialist. He's not a member of the DSA, the Democratic Socialists of America, even though he's endorsed by key socialist political figures like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

[Michael Barbaro]: Understood.

[Michael Cruz]: So that's his platform, but the way his vibe reads is not say the stereotypical lefty. And yeah, I'm a bro with a podcast to dig into the epidemics America's facing of economic... quite conventionally charismatic. One of his aids in one of our conversations described him to me as Muslim Bruce Springsteen. He lifts weights in his gym in his basement. I spent some time down there earlier this summer working on a profile watching him do squats and pull-ups. He is not the picture of the nerdy socialist that I think some critics might have.

[Abdul El-Sayed]: As it gets. I'm Dr. Abdul El-Sayed and I'm running for US Senate. Let's go.

[Michael Barbaro]: So, tell us about his opponent in this Democratic primary. His opponent is Haley Stevens.

[Haley Stevens]: I remember being handed the keys to my first car. I'm Haley Stevens and I bet you do, too.

[Michael Cruz]: A moderate four-term member of Congress. She is 43 years old, so similarly aged, but much more of an old school type of politician. As chief of staff to President Obama's auto rescue, we helped save over 200,000 Michigan jobs and stabilize our economy. She has worked in various presidential administrations or campaigns. Her basic pitch is, I'm a legislative workhorse, not a show horse. Incremental changes to healthcare. Aid should continue to support Israel. She is by far and away the most AIPAC supported candidate, not only in this race, but in any race ever.

[Michael Barbaro]: Wow.

[Michael Cruz]: She is the pick of the Democratic establishment. Growing up in Michigan meant being surrounded by innovation, ingenuity, and pride in hard work. And she makes the case that she is made in Michigan. The classic Michigander. Abdul El-Sayed was born and bred in Michigan, too, but she has this folksy, almost zany way about her. I'm proud of Michigan, and I'll never get tired of saying it. It would be my honor to fight for you in the Senate.

[Michael Barbaro]: So with all that in mind, Michael, tell us about the time that you spent with both of these candidates and campaigns when you were in Michigan.

[Michael Cruz]: Who was here for their very first time? Never came this before. Also fantastic. In fact, let's give... So, we went to Lansing, the state capital, pretty blue, especially in the part of Lansing we were in to watch El-Sayed whip up his supporters to go knock on doors around that area.

[Abdul El-Sayed]: All right, y'all. Money out of... money in your...

[Michael Cruz]: He came out on the stage and did what he always does with his events. Thank you for... started with a chant of sorts, a call in response. Shouldn't be this hard IN THE RICHEST, MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE world to afford to fill up your truck. Shouldn't be this hard to get a second bag of groceries. Shouldn't be this hard.

[Abdul El-Sayed]: We talked about how politicians, elected officials need to respond to their constituents more than their donors. Doctor, how you going to pay for that? I don't know. Uh maybe instead of fighting dumbass wars we had no business fighting in the first place, we can keep our money here and start investing in healthcare and basic services here.

[Michael Barbaro]: It sounds like what he's really tapping into here is a profound disaffection with modern politics.

[Michael Cruz]: No question. Thank you so much for yourself. Thank you so much. Yeah. So, we're out for the UAW. I'm an aesthetician. So, I'm a student, but I work at a daycare. Um... the people we talk to at the event. Why are you team Abdul? Everyday Americans are not being heard and represented by their government.

[Michael Cruz]: They talk about a real disaffection with politics as usual. Money out of politics. AIPAC, you know it's obscene how our money is spent in... not being able to live the same lives that their parents did. Like I graduated high school in 2020. So basically as long as I can remember things have been getting like significantly worse. Can't afford their rent. Can't afford healthcare. You know this is not the future I want for my kids. And... a sense that Democrats are very much part of the problem, too. Everybody's sick of this nonsense that we get every election cycle that we just have to go for the middle of the road moderate, boring, bland candidate that doesn't stand for anything.

[Michael Cruz]: And so now, why vote for the same old kind of Democrat that they've voted for before? At the end of the day, I don't want crumbs. Like, I just want healthcare.

[Michael Barbaro]: What is it like when this room full of volunteers then heads out and attempts to make this pitch to voters in Lansing?

[Michael Cruz]: We got Mike. Hi. How are you? So, we ended up tagging along with a volunteer named Mary. Um, I couldn't help but notice your vote for Abdul bracelet. I've got my friendship bracelets. Finally... white woman, 70s, retired. She had been a school teacher. She had been a lobbyist for the United Auto Workers Union. She's been active in Democratic politics for decades. Spare the when I went to the nudist colony to talk about healthcare story. Whoa. But I did. What I did? I think you got it. She talked to us about efforts at healthcare reform in the '90s led by then first lady Hillary Clinton when Bill Clinton was the president. And this guy's like, "Will you come talk about healthcare?" When do you pitched them? Sorry. Were they wearing clothes? No.

[Michael Cruz]: But now the money and politics thing is the thing that just sticks with me and the need for new ideas and new people. She, I think, has felt really let down by Democrats that she voted for, that she knocked on doors for. It's like a sports team. You don't change the players, you're going to get the same result. And now is so much a supporter of El-Sayed that she knocks on door after door after door around Michigan on his behalf. We're going to see the kind of change that I think... she sees the thing that in her mind all these previous Democratic campaigns and even elected officials have failed to deliver. We just need changes, which is why I'm out here busting my ass. I'm like, this is the hill I'm going to die on. This is the one. So, here we go.

[Michael Barbaro]: And how did it go for Mary when she's knocking on these doors?

[Michael Cruz]: So, we're going to start over here. We were in kind of the suburban outskirts of Lansing. Hi there. Hi. How are you? Good. How are you? How's it going? Surprise. You're on camera. Kidding. My name is Mary. I'm a canvasser for these candidates. Do you think we can count on your support? Oh, yeah. I actually sent in my absentee ballot. So... excellent. Okay. Well, thank you. Many of the doors she knocked on were already El-Sayed supporters. I know. I love that. Are you on board, too? Oh, yes. Okay, good. He's my husband. Yes, I know. Trust me, I've got one at home, too. You need all the vote. To be quite frank... please... Um, I'm not a big Bernie supporter. Okay.

[Michael Cruz]: We did encounter though some people who were more skeptical. What I'm seeing with the Democrats is a lot of them are going further left than they used to be like with woke and words like woke and words like socialist. So, I'm not really sure what's going on. For instance, this guy John, former Republican voter at this point wants Democrats to take control. Not sure though what kind of Democrat that should be. Well, these are progressive candidates. They've both been endorsed by Bernie Sanders. You'll see that on their lit. I like Bernie, but he scares me a little bit, too. He's got a lot of ideas, but I don't know how he expects all those things to be funded. What about Haley Stevens? What's your opinion on her? Um Haley Stevens campaign. She's taken all kinds of corporate money. She's getting all kinds of money from AIPAC. That is not acceptable.

[Michael Cruz]: He wanted to know, I think, more about Haley Stevens. And he wanted to know... who's more likely to beat the Republicans... who would have the better chance to beat the Republican come November after this primary? He's invoking that classic Democratic concept of electability that has dominated Democratic politics, you could argue, for quite some time, all the way back to Hillary Clinton 2016, Joe Biden 2020, and it sounds like is still a factor for a certain kind of Democratic voter in 2026 and supercharged by the spectre of Donald Trump and Republicans who have his backing. Who can beat Donald Trump and these kinds of Republicans? What is the right kind of Democrat? The conventional way of thinking about electability for Democrats for as long as most people can remember has been the more centrist, more moderate candidate is the more electable candidate.

[Michael Barbaro]: So what does Mary, as you're standing with her, say to that electability question that a voter like John is asking?

[Michael Cruz]: Mary's argument in essence is that this is a different moment because of the change people want and they will appeal... a sort of moment that requires a different kind of voting, vote for the change candidate because this is a change election. Abdul is polling at 80 plus% in the 18 to 44 year old demographic. That demographic if not this year by 2028 is going to be the biggest voting block in this country. If they'll vote... if they'll vote.

[Michael Cruz]: Absolutely. But there's a lot of enthusiasm and I think if the Democratic party is looking at its future, it's got to take that into consideration. And in that sense, she's arguing El-Sayed is electable. He is electable because the electability question itself has changed because of where we've gotten to in politics because of the sense that voters across the political spectrum feel like politics is unresponsive, is so irreparably broken that we need to do something so very different and the different candidate here and therefore perhaps actually the more electable candidate is Abdul El-Sayed rather than the moderate.

[Voter John]: And uh I can't guarantee you which way I'm going to go. I was kind of leaning toward Stevens, but one thing I can tell you for sure. I don't know who I'm going to vote for, honestly. But it's not going to be a Republican. So, I hope that makes me feel a little bit... makes me feel better about November, but I'm hoping you'll be with us when you actually fill it out. But most of all, I appreciate you listening.

[Michael Cruz]: And that's the question here in Michigan. Does electability at this point mean something different? Or does it mean what it's always meant that the candidate more like Haley Stevens is in fact the most electable candidate? We'll be right back.

[Michael Barbaro]: So, Michael, you next spend time with the campaign of Congresswoman Haley Stevens, the moderate in this race, the traditionally electable candidate in a race like this.

[Michael Cruz]: Right. We went to see Haley Stevens canvas kickoff in a suburb of Lansing called Okemos. Could not have been more different than the El-Sayed event. First of all, it wasn't a rally at all. It was at a supporter's house. Well, I got cookies and water in a bathroom, so you know, I got it all going on. It was barely more than a dozen people. There were more reporters and staffers there than door knockers. Huh. She stepped out of her black SUV and a staffer started a Haley chant. How fun. How fun. How fun. And she... Hello... did her version of retail politics. We got some big time people here like the Blue Brigade. There is no character in politics quite like Haley Stevens. You know what? This argument of ideas, you know, to have real debates, not just on the twit. I call it the twit. That's what I call it. But... corny language. I'm going to stick it to him. All right. Her Michigander accent, the way she interacts with people is its own kind of endearing. I think she understands that she is this way and embraces it and she went into her pitch. We need honest, dedicated public servants. I'm the workhorse working for you in the halls of Congress. Bills, what? What about lowering the cost of groceries? I actually have a piece of legislation on that. All of which landed on... We're going to win baby in November. Absolutely. You know, I mean, and we're going to win. I'm going to beat Mike Rogers. I'm the candidate who can beat Mike Rogers and her proof.

[Michael Cruz]: There certainly has been consistent evidence that the Republicans want to run against him, to duel. Mike Rogers leaked a phone call to that tune. Mike Rogers essentially says so himself. He thinks it makes it easier for him to win and says that he would rather run against El-Sayed than against her. So electability is explicitly Haley Stevens argument so much so that she says look my own Republican rival thinks that I'm the most electable, fears me the most.

[Haley Stevens]: Right. I'm going to make sure that we are heard in the halls of power and I'm going to make damn sure then Mike Rogers goes back to Florida. Thank you.

[Michael Cruz]: So after Stevens has made her remarks, we all split up and... Excuse me. Hi. Hi. One of the daily producers I was with, York, and uh she spent a bunch of time with two door knockers. And have you been in Michigan your whole life? No, but I've been here I've been here 50 years. There was Alyssa. I'm really proud to be a Michigander. She's a former librarian. Originally moved to Lansing for grad school, never left. Okay. So, you're going to drive? Yes. She was joined by Marie... a Chevy. Very classic Michigan. Yeah. No doubt about that. She's a former elections clerk. Then I retired and I became a precinct chair. And then you said, "I'm not done. I got more elections in me"... who just can't quit politics. Can you tell me what you like about Congresswoman Stevens? I just like her record, what she's done, and I feel like her moving from the House to the Senate, she's just going to be ready to run. And we love her accent.

[Michael Cruz]: Alyssa and Marie had knocked on doors before, but this was their first time canvasing for Stevens. So, we've got two on this side, two on that side. They got to a neighborhood about 5 minutes away from the Stevens event, just a couple hours before it got dark. They were dropping off a lot of flyers because a lot of people weren't home or weren't answering. The people they did talk to though seemed fairly Stevens friendly, including an older black man named Julius, who didn't answer his door, but did talk through his doorbell video camera. It's very modern. Have you heard of her? Oh, yes. Have you voted? Have you voted yet? Not yet. I plan to vote for her. Oh, terrific. Oh, thank you so much. Julius was a fan of Stevens. He was actually so on board that he said Alyssa and Marie could put a Stevens sign in his yard. That I mean that's like you know when you're canvasing that's the thing if you can get a sign.

[Michael Cruz]: And after Alyssa and Marie were done... and this is my first interview I've ever done through a Ring doorbell. So Anna stayed back and asked Julius a few more questions about why he was interested in Stevens... endorsement but she worked on some very important uh issues with Obama. That itself is a selling point. You're a fan of his. He was familiar with her work years ago for the administration of Barack Obama. Obama hasn't endorsed Stevens, but there's an association that I think still matters to a certain kind of Democrat in Michigan. And I think that uh the governor has endorsed her. He was familiar with the people who've endorsed her. Gretchen Whitmer, the governor, Gary Peters, the senator she's trying to replace. These establishment endorsements that are a bonus, a sign of electability for Julius. So, did you ever consider any of the other candidates? Did you ever consider Abdul? Oh, yes. I considered Abdul. I'm thinking about who will have the best chances of winning the election. The general. Yes. It sounds like Julius is the kind of voter that the Stevens campaign is bending backwards to get. He's appealed to by the very establishment credentials that she presents as her calling cards in this campaign.

[Michael Barbaro]: No question. Her core constituency is traditional Democratic base voters, black voters, older voters, perhaps more moderate who still see themselves as more moderate.

[Michael Cruz]: A much more pragmatic Democrat. Without them, she cannot win. I think it's time to stop. I agree. So, Alyssa and Marie wrapped up. They were ready to go home, but before we all left, we talked to them a little bit more. How do you feel about the AIPAC money? Oh, I don't feel great about it. Um, do I wish that she wasn't taking that money? Um, yes. What I wish we could do is stop with the purity test. Um, because I think both sides are absolutely guilty of it. It was interesting even as they knocked on doors for Stevens... Marie did have some reservations about all the AIPAC money... that we've got this real schism between so-called establishment Democrats and Democratic socialists. And... I find that to be a bummer because... I support everything that a progressive would support. I support the platform but somehow or another I feel like I'm relegated to a pearl clutching baby boomer. But which I don't think I am. If you support, you know, like you're saying, like a more progressive agenda, how does that lead you to, you know, someone who is a little bit more moderate? I think um it takes a lot of people to get stuff done. It's great to have all, you know, lofty ideals. We all have them. But to really get stuff done that impacts people every day, we got to have some bipartisanship. But Marie said at the end of the day, we need someone who can win, someone who can get things done in Washington. It is important. Electability is important. She has the best chance to beat Mike Rogers. Marie and Alyssa both still see her as the more electable candidate than El-Sayed. Well, thank you so much for being so open. Yeah, of course. Of course.

[Michael Barbaro]: It's striking to me that even a volunteer door knocker for Stevens, like Marie, who's giving up pretty meaningful amounts of her time to do this work, is very freely telling you that she sees Stevens as imperfect, but electable enough. And I guess what she really means is electable against a Republican in the general.

[Michael Cruz]: Exactly. She's thinking about November more than she's thinking about August.

[Michael Barbaro]: So, Michael, you're describing what feels pretty evidently like an enthusiasm gap between these two events and between these two candidates. What is the polling at this point, right on the heels of the primary, telling us about who's most likely to win? The polls say that he's leading and of late over the last couple weeks the polls say he is pulling away. His margin in a number of these most recent surveys are in double digits.

[Michael Cruz]: Interesting. These are polls. Polls aren't votes.

[Michael Barbaro]: Mhm. Polls can be fallible as we've seen over the years, but especially of late, polls show the momentum with El-Sayed more than Stevens. I have to think, Michael, that that somewhat consistent and now at the end of this race growing lead for El-Sayed is telling us something about the chances of progressivism in a purple state and also something about this big question of electability.

[Michael Cruz]: Totally. And here's the thing. If we take polls at face value, it feels like Democratic voters in Michigan are ready to challenge this conventional notion that the more moderate candidate is by definition the more electable candidate.

[Michael Cruz]: And we had a fascinating series of conversations with some El-Sayed voters about just this shift or potential shift in a place called Manistee which is the western part of the state far more north in the state on Lake Michigan. Yeah, nice to meet you. Hi. When we got to the office of the Democratic Party of Manistee County and... you're wearing an Abdul for Senate shirt, I didn't see that yet. Absolutely. So... there was no shortage of El-Sayed flyers, buttons, political paraphernalia, signs of support for El-Sayed. Nothing for Stevens. This is the Manistee Dems mascot. I have one of them. Come on, set that up so they can see your paws. There was even a poodle named Hazel. She has blue paws and she was wearing an El-Sayed shirt. Amazing. Hazel's for Abdul. Little surprising because we were in a Republican county, a county that is a Trump county. Granted, we were in a small city and a blue municipality, but still not a place where I expected to see so much support for the more progressive of the two Democrats running in this primary. And we wanted to watch people watch a debate between Stevens and El-Sayed and talk to them about what they made of the debate. Former Wayne County Health Director, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed. Stevens. So after we watched them watch the debate... I ended up asking them how they were feeling and electability definitely came up. When people talk about electability, what does it mean to you? What makes a candidate more electable? I know what I think. I think it means about who's more politically connected. That's usually what that sounds like to me. And it's like I don't care about that. It's who's got a point. Who do I want to lead for me? Not who is electable. That's what I think. And... I feel the opposite. I feel that electability is everything because if we don't take the Senate, much less the House, we're screwed. Amen. Yeah... some of them had this question of electability still front of mind... but some of them had decided that to some extent to hell with electability. We always um I've heard of people that go to the polls and they vote for someone because well the other person can't get elected. Well, aren't we like uh chopping ourselves off at the knees because if we're assuming someone can't get elected, then we're going to vote for the person that maybe we don't think will be the best one. Mhm. Uh we're selling ourselves short and we're selling everyone else in Michigan short. We're thinking that we know what other people think and we don't know.

[Michael Cruz]: What was so interesting was listening to them get to a place where they're not going to try to play this electability 3D chess and send the person they think can win in November. They're going to pick the person who is speaking to them the most and let the chips fall in the general. Um, which of these candidates do you think your neighbors, your undecided neighbors, non-voting neighbors, maybe even Republican neighbors are more likely to vote for, Abdul say or Haley Stevens? Probably Haley. If they're Republicans are coming over, they're probably going to vote for the Republican in sheep's clothing. I mean, some of them even acknowledge that some of their Republican neighbors in Manistee County... some of the more centrist independents they know might not vote for El-Sayed come November should he make it through the primary. But then don't you have to keep the Senate seat? So, how do you feel about that given the... I'm willing to take my chances for a guy that I think honestly has our best interest at heart... but that at least this time around would not determine the decision they themselves made in this primary.

[Michael Barbaro]: This is really interesting because these voters seem to be taking things a step further than Mary, that El-Sayed volunteer who you were telling us about earlier. What Mary was saying was that she thinks El-Sayed is electable. And what these voters are saying is different. They're saying maybe he is electable, maybe he isn't. But either way, we're done even dealing with this electability question in the first place, right?

[Michael Cruz]: And this crowd was thinking differently than they were thinking not that long ago in the last decade in how they decided where to put their vote. So, in fact, like I um probably considered back um you know, like when Bernie Sanders was running for president way back, I thought he didn't have the electability and now I wish to hell I would have bought in. We did hear from people who wanted to vote for Bernie Sanders but didn't. And this year, in a way that felt pretty different and new and distinct, they were just going to vote for El-Sayed. Screw it. Donald Trump came in in 2016. Now, he was not at all a middle ground candidate, but he spoke to people that hadn't voted in years. He wasn't trying to convert other Democrats. He was trying to bring new people into the process. And it worked. He won this county. And Abdul is saying, "Hey, we need to do something different." Think back to 2016. All of the conventional wisdom up until election day that said surely Donald Trump could not win. But clearly enough Republicans made him their nominee in 2016 and then just enough people in just enough places, the places that matter the most, made him the president. And perhaps Democrats find themselves now a decade later at a similar juncture.

[Voters]: Looking forward every day. We'll be in touch. Thank you. Thank you all so much. I love it. Thanks, guys. Bye.

[Michael Barbaro]: It feels like what you and Assa and Anna really saw in Michigan was not just the latest test of whether Democrats want a progressive or a moderate, but a genuinely new approach to this for Democrats anyway agonizing question of electability. And that new mindset is that some of these Democrats who are now behind El-Sayed have decided to stop talking themselves out of picking the exciting disruptive candidate for fear that their Republican neighbors won't back them and instead they're doing this more Republican thing in the Trump era and they're just saying we're going to follow our hearts. We're going to vote for the person we like and to hell with the consequences, right? And maybe the consequences include you do get the person you actually want and want with your whole heart.

[Michael Cruz]: There is no shortage of voters across the political spectrum, not just Republicans, who are so angry at politics as usual, at the system, that they're willing to just say, you know what, it's time for something different. It's time for something new. It's time for the change candidate, even if we are being told that the change candidate is not the electable candidate.

[Michael Barbaro]: Maybe the change candidate is the electable candidate. Maybe electability is something totally new in 2026 on both sides of the political aisle. Well, Michael, thank you very much. Thank you. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. After a rocky start to his confirmation process, President Trump's acting attorney general, Todd Blanche, won over two crucial Republican holdouts in the US Senate on Monday, paving the way for Blanche to be confirmed by the full Senate as soon as this week. The two Republican senators are Tom Tillis of North Carolina and John Cornyn of Texas. Blanche provided written assurances of two actions. First, that he had killed off a fund to pay Trump allies who claimed they were unfairly prosecuted by the government. And second, that Blanche had narrowed the scope of a deal to protect Trump, his family, and their businesses from the IRS. But the narrowed IRS deal still prevents the IRS from auditing the previous tax returns of Trump, his two oldest sons, and the Trump Organization. An unprecedented act of self-dealing by the president. And health officials have reported two deaths linked to the parasite cyclospora, which is spread through food contaminated with human feces. Both of the deaths involved people in Michigan with significant underlying health conditions. The deaths come amid the worst outbreak of the parasite in US history. Health officials have confirmed or are investigating more than 18,000 infections across 45 states.

[Michael Barbaro]: Today's episode was produced by OA Cherved, Anna Foley, Eric Krupke, and Claire Tennis. It was edited by Rob Zipco and Rachel Quester and contains music by Marian Lozano, Alicia Baup, and Pat McCusker. Our theme music is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. That's it for the Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.