德州中期选举:共和党与民主党的身份之战 New York Times Podcasts 2026-03-03

德州中期选举开幕

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 大家好,这里是《纽约时报》的《The Daily》节目,我是迈克尔·巴巴罗。今天在德克萨斯州,在总统支持率下降以及与伊朗的战事不断扩大的背景下,民主党和共和党将前往投票站进行一场选举。这场选举将向两党传递一个信息,即在特朗普时代的美国,选民想要什么,不想要什么。是选择斗争还是弥合,是选择忠诚还是反抗?我与我的同事,国家政治记者沙恩·戈德马赫谈论了这场备受美国政界关注的参议院初选。今天是3月3日,星期二。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: From The New York Times, I'm Michael Bavaro. This is The Daily. In Texas today, amid the president's sinking popularity and his widening war with Iran, Democrats and Republicans will head to the polls for an election that will send both parties a message about what voters want and don't want in Trump's America. Fighting or healing, loyalty or defiance? I spoke with my colleague, national political correspondent Shane Goldmacher about the Senate primary that everyone in US politics is watching. It's Tuesday, March 3rd.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 迈克尔,很高兴见到你。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Shane, Michael, good to see you.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 很高兴见到你本人。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Nice to see you in person.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 中期选举,我们曾承诺它真的近在眼前,现在它真的要开始了。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: So, the midterm elections, which we promised were really around the corner, are actually now.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 它们将在周二开始。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: They are starting.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 周二开始。而所有地方中,德克萨斯州这个以政治人物和政治戏剧闻名的州,你准备好了吗?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Starting, starting on Tuesday. And of all places, Texas, state known for very big political personalities and political dramas. Are you ready for it?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 我准备好了。是的,德克萨斯州是中期选举季的盛大开幕。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: I'm ready for it. Yeah. Texas is the big kickoff of the midterm season.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 简直就是第一个。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Literally the first.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 是的,有三个州,但这是核心的一个。我们感兴趣的不仅仅因为它是第一个,尽管这已经足够理由了。我们关注周二的德克萨斯州中期初选,是因为它看起来像是一场两党之争,即美国参议院民主党和共和党候选人的选拔,这场选举真正抓住了特朗普时代美国两党身份认同的宏大灵魂之战。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Yep. Yeah. There's three states, but this is the central one. And we're not actually interested in it just because it's the first, although that's plenty of reason to be interested in it. We're interested in the Texas midterm primary on Tuesday because it looks to be a race on both sides. The selection of a Democratic nominee and a Republican nominee for US Senate that is really capturing the big soularching battle for the identity of both parties in this era of Trump's America.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 是的,关于民主党和共和党此刻的发展方向问题,这次初选中的中期之战是最有趣的一场。这场德克萨斯州的竞选几乎包含了所有元素。它是一场关于种族、宗教、意识形态、唐纳德·特朗普以及可选举性的斗争。简而言之,它几乎是我们在美国政治中争论的一切的缩影。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Yeah. On the question of like what is the direction of the Democratic party at this moment and what is the direction of the Republican party in this moment? The midterm fight there in this primary is one of the most interesting ones. This Texas race has a little bit of everything. It's a fight over race. It's a fight over religion. It's a fight over ideology. It's a fight over Donald Trump. It's a fight over electability. It is, in short, a fight over almost everything that we fight about in American politics.

共和党初选:老派与特朗普主义的对决

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 这场共和党内部的竞选,一方是共和党老派的代表人物。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: And it is a race for Republicans between a sort of a fixture of the old guard of the Republican party.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 某种程度上,如果老派仍然存在的话。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: To the degree there is an old guard still.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 某种程度上,如果老派仍然存在的话。一个在政坛活跃了20年的人,和一个真正以唐纳德·特朗普形象塑造的挑战者,他在共和党右翼基础选民中备受争议且广受欢迎。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: To a degree there's an old guard, a guy who's been around for 20 years and a challenger who is really made in the image of Donald Trump, controversial and popular with the right-wing base of the Republican party.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 对于民主党来说,这是在两位候选人之间做出的选择,他们真正代表了党派前进的道路。你想要选择一个整天都在猛烈抨击的斗士吗?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: And for Democrats it's a choice between two candidates who really offer the paths for the party forward. Do you want to pick someone who is a fighter who is going to just throw haymakers all day?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 以牙还牙。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Fight fire with fire.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 以牙还牙。还是想选择一个更倾向于弥合分歧的人?一个说“是的,我们需要战斗,但最终目标是弥合我们的分歧”的人?这是今年两党在这些重大问题上立场的首次衡量。我想说,俗话说,“德克萨斯州的一切都更大”。这是美国历史上最昂贵的初选。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Fight fire with fire. Or do you want to pick somebody who is more of a healer type? Someone who says, "Yes, there's fights we need to be have, but ultimately it's about bridging our divides." And this is the first measurement for both parties this year of where they stand on those kind of big ticket questions. And I'd say the cliche, everything is bigger in Texas. This is the most expensive primary.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 在美国历史上。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: In American history.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 哇,花了多少钱?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Wow. How expensive has it been?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 初选广告费超过一亿美元

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: More than hundred million dollars of advertising in a primary, in a primary.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 我们应该从哪一方开始呢?民主党候选人还是共和党候选人?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: So, which side should we start with here? The Democratic candidates or the Republican ones?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 我认为我们肯定要从共和党和寻求连任的共和党现任参议员开始。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: I think you definitely want to start with the Republicans and the Republican incumbent who is running for reelection.

约翰·科宁: 我热爱德克萨斯州。代表德克萨斯州所有2900万人民在美国参议院工作是我的巨大荣幸。

Original English

John Cornyn: I love Texas. It's been my great honor and privilege to represent her, all 29 million of us in the United States Senate.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 这位是参议员约翰·科宁

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Which is Senator John Cornin.

约翰·科宁: 我不认为我们需要让德克萨斯州变得像查克·舒默纽约南希·佩洛西加利福尼亚。我们需要让这个国家的其他地方更像德克萨斯州

Original English

John Cornyn: I don't believe we need to make Texas like Chuck Schumer's New York or Nancy Pelosy's California. We need to make the rest of the country more like Texas.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 约翰·科宁已经在参议院待了20年。他曾是参议院领导层的一员,也曾领导共和党参议院竞选委员会。理论上,这样的人应该轻而易举地连任。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: John Cornin's been in the Senate for 20 years. He's been in the Senate leadership. He has run the Senate Republican campaign arm. And on paper, that's the kind of person who should just have a shoe in for reelection.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 但现在情况不同了。在共和党初选选民眼中,科宁犯了一些错误,那就是他有时与唐纳德·特朗普意见相左。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: But this isn't that moment. And Cornin has committed some sins in the eyes of Republican primary voters, which is that he has broken at times with Donald Trump.

新闻片段: 今天早上,一些共和党人公开反对特朗普推翻选举结果的长期法律挑战,其中包括德克萨斯州参议员约翰·科宁

Original English

News Clip: This morning, some Republicans are speaking out against Trump's longshot legal challenge to overturn the election, including Texas Senator John Cornin.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 最明显的是在1月6日之后。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Most notably after January 6th.

新闻片段: 德克萨斯州共和党人约翰·科宁表示,他正在努力理解此案背后的法律理论。

Original English

News Clip: Texas Republican John Cornin says he is struggling to understand the legal theory behind this case. Texas Congress.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他当时表达了对特朗普在骚乱前行为的批评。他没有投票弹劾特朗普,但他当时并非特朗普的支持者。然后当特朗普在2024年竞选时,科宁公开表示怀疑。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Where he expressed criticism of Trump's behavior in the run-up to the riot. Now, he didn't vote to impeach him or anything, but he wasn't pro-Trump at that moment. And then when Trump runs in 2024, Cornin's an open skeptic.

新闻片段: 我们州资深美国参议员约翰·科宁表示,前总统唐纳德·特朗普无法赢得大选。在今天与德克萨斯州记者的通话中,科宁参议员说:“我认为特朗普总统的时代已经过去了。”

Original English

News Clip: Our state senior United States Senator John Cornin says former President Donald Trump cannot win a general election. In a call with Texas reporters today, Senator Cornin said, quote, "I think President Trump's time has passed him by."

沙恩·戈德马赫: 科宁最终还是顺应了特朗普的潮流,但他并非2024年特朗普复出之路的早期支持者。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And Cornin gets on board eventually with the Trump trend, but he wasn't an early occupant of the 2024 Trump comeback ride.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 然后科宁宣布自己将在2026年竞选连任。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And so then Cornin is announcing his own reelection for 2026.

约翰·科宁: 在特朗普总统的第一个任期内,他让美国再次伟大。现在情况突然反转了。这意味着特朗普以前可能想要科宁的支持,但现在是科宁想要唐纳德·特朗普的支持。在特朗普总统的第一个任期内,我是共和党党鞭,为他最大的胜利争取选票。

Original English

John Cornyn: In President Trump's first term, he made America great. And the shoe is suddenly on the other foot. Meaning that Trump might have wanted Cornin's endorsement before, but now it's Cornin who wants Donald Trump's endorsement. In President Trump's first term, I was Republican whip delivering the votes for his biggest wins.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 所以他的竞选视频是对唐纳德·特朗普的巨大致敬。他的宣传材料都围绕着他99%的时间都与唐纳德·特朗普投票一致。他正在紧紧拥抱这位他不久前还持怀疑态度的总统。愿上帝保佑你和你的家人,愿上帝保佑美国,愿上帝保佑德克萨斯州

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And so his launch video is a big homage to Donald Trump. His materials are about he voted with Donald Trump 99% of the time. He is bear hugging the president who he had been skeptical of not that long ago. God bless you and your families. God bless America and God bless Texas.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 所以从表面上看,他仍然像是一个相当合乎逻辑的、理论上不仅能轻松连任,而且总统也可能支持的人。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: So on paper, he still kind of seems like a fairly logical not just shoein for re-election in theory, but someone the president could probably get behind.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 是的,大多数共和党参议员都能轻松连任。现任参议员面临真正的初选挑战并不常见。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Most Republican senators coast to re-election. It's uncommon for a sitting senator to face a real primary challenge. However,

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 然而,他确实面临一场初选,而且有一个真正的初选对手。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: However, he has a primary and he has a real primary opponent.

肯·帕克斯顿: 我经历了奥巴马政府试图将我投入监狱,让联邦调查局调查我两年,因为我在两年内起诉了他27次

Original English

Ken Paxton: I went through the Obama administration trying to put me in prison, having the FBI investigate me for two years because I sued him 27 times in two years.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 而这个人正是唐纳德·特朗普的翻版。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And it is a person in the mold of Donald Trump.

肯·帕克斯顿: 我还经历了拜登政府,是的,拜登政府也调查了我四年,因为我在四年内起诉了他们107次,他们不喜欢这样。

Original English

Ken Paxton: I had the Biden administration, yes, the Biden administration also investigating me for four years because I sued them 107 times over four years and they didn't like it.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他是德克萨斯州总检察长,名叫肯·帕克斯顿

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: The attorney general of Texas, a guy named Ken Paxton.

新闻片段: 总检察长肯·帕克斯顿保护了我们的枪支权利,捍卫了生命权,并对抗了激进的跨性别运动。

Original English

News Clip: This attorney general, Ken Paxton protected our gun rights, defended the right to life, and took on the radical transgender movement.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 如果说科宁有时对特朗普持怀疑态度,那么肯·帕克斯顿从未对唐纳德·特朗普产生过怀疑。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And if Cornin was at times skeptical about Trump, Ken Paxton has never been skeptical about Donald Trump.

肯·帕克斯顿: 我可以告诉你,我一生中见过很多总统,没有哪位总统在那种逆境下,比我一生中任何其他总统取得的成就更多。

Original English

Ken Paxton: I can tell you this. I've watched a lot of presidents in my lifetime and no president accomplish more with that type of adversity than any other president in my lifetime.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他相信并支持特朗普所做的一切。谈谈特朗普的关键时刻,也就是2020年大选认证前的准备阶段。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: He has believed and backed almost everything Trump has done. Talk about that key moment for Trump, that runup to the certification of the 2020 election.

肯·帕克斯顿: 我们有机会在其他州进行斗争,我们起诉了四个州关于选票欺诈的问题,并直接将其提交给最高法院。总检察长肯·帕克斯顿代表德克萨斯州提起诉讼,试图使选举结果无效。

Original English

Ken Paxton: We had the opportunity to go fight in other states and we sued four states over the ballot fraud and we took it directly to the Supreme Court. Ken Paxton as attorney general was the guy filing a lawsuit on behalf of Texas trying to invalidate the results.

肯·帕克斯顿: 我们是德克萨斯人,我们是美国人,我们不会放弃。上帝保佑。

Original English

Ken Paxton: We're Texans. We're Americans and we're not quitting. God bless.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 所以肯·帕克斯顿特朗普的盟友,在很多方面,他就是德克萨斯州的“特朗普之前的特朗普”。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: So Ken Paxton is a Trump ally and in a lot of ways he's Trump before Trump in Texas.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 解释一下。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Explain that.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 肯·帕克斯顿被起诉过。肯·帕克斯顿被共和党人弹劾过。肯·帕克斯顿被他的前妻指控婚姻不忠。但你知道吗?德克萨斯州的共和党初选选民一直很喜欢他。所以肯·帕克斯顿一进入这场竞选,他的民调就立即上升。一开始,他与约翰·科宁持平或领先。而科宁作为其中一员的共和党政治建制派,都吓坏了。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Ken Paxton has been indicted. Ken Paxton has been impeached by Republicans. Ken Paxton, has been accused by his ex-wife of marital infidelity. And the Republican primary voters in Texas have loved him. And so Ken Paxton gets in this race and immediately he's up in the polls. He is tied or ahead of John Cornin at the very start. And the Republican political establishment of which Cornin is a card carrying member is freaking out.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他们说肯·帕克斯顿非常脆弱,因为弹劾、起诉以及他自己高级助手指控的腐败,肯·帕克斯顿可能会让这个席位成为民主党人可能赢得的。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: They're saying Ken Paxton is so vulnerable because of impeachments and indictments and corruption accused by his own top aids that Ken Paxton could make the seat something Democrats could conceivably win.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 如果他赢了,共和党担心德克萨斯州参议院席位可能会在大选中被民主党人争取到,如果他们派出一个强有力的候选人。他们对此非常坦诚,认为肯·帕克斯顿对党派来说将是一场灾难。即使他可能赢,他们也说可能需要花费2亿美元来挽救肯·帕克斯顿。因此,共和党政治界做出了这个决定,而不是让这场初选顺其自然,看看结果如何,他们将提前介入以挽救约翰·科宁

Original English

Michael Bavaro: If he wins, the Republican party fears then potentially a Texas Senate seat could be in play for Democrats in a general election if they put up a strong hand. They're pretty open about it that Ken Paxton would be a disaster for the party. Even if he might be able to win, they say it could cost $200 million to save Ken Paxton. And so the Republican political session has made this decision instead of letting this primary just play out and seeing where the cards fall. They're going to intervene early to save John Cornin.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 他们能救他吗?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: And are they saving him?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 还没有。这可能会进入第二轮选举,因为实际上还有第三位候选人。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Not yet. This could go to a runoff because there's in fact a third candidate.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 在这场竞选中。那么告诉我关于韦斯利·亨特这个人。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: In this race. So tell me about the man Wesley Hunt.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 关于韦斯利有很多话要说。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: There's so much to say about Wesley.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 一位名叫韦斯利·亨特的年轻黑人国会议员,他后来加入了竞选,并表示:“我想成为这里的替代候选人。”

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: A congressman named Wesley Hunt, who's a younger black congressman from Texas, gets into the race later and says, "I want to be an alternative candidate here."

韦斯利·亨特: 这就是我竞选参议员的原因。

Original English

Wesley Hunt: And that's why I'm running for Senate.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 我不认为我们应该把他仅仅看作是一个事后补救的选项,因为最近几周,帕克斯顿科宁都停止了互相攻击,转而主要攻击亨特

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And I don't think we should think of him just as an afterthought because in recent weeks both Paxton and Cornin have stopped attacking each other and started chiefly attacking Hunt.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 他们为什么要这样做?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: And why are they doing that?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 在德克萨斯州,你必须获得50%的选票才能成为提名人。在三方竞争中,这非常困难。所以他们都在努力确保他们能在第二轮选举中互相竞争。科宁担心亨特可能会超过他,从而进入第二轮。而帕克斯顿则希望确保他最终能与科宁竞争。所以他们找到了共同的联盟来攻击亨特

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: In Texas, you have to get 50% to become the nominee. And in a three-way race, that's really hard. And so what they're both doing is trying to ensure that they get to face each other in a runoff. Cornin had fears that Hunt might pass him and make the runoff instead. And Paxton wants to make sure he's running against Cornin at the end of the day. And so they found common alliance in attacking Hunt.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 嗯。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Mhm.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这就是现在正在进行的竞选。但现在和第二轮选举中可能的主要对决是帕克斯顿对阵科宁。所以让我们花点时间来谈谈这场主要对决,科宁对阵帕克斯顿。他们是如何互相攻击的,以及他们之间最有效的攻击方式是什么?

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: That's the race that's happening now. But the main event both now and likely in the runoff is Paxton versus Cornin. So let's spend some time with that main event, Cornin versus Paxton. How are they campaigning against each other and what's been the most effective lines of attack between them?

特朗普因素与共和党策略

沙恩·戈德马赫: 如果科宁一开始就试图紧抱唐纳德·特朗普

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Well, if Cornin has started his race trying to bear hug Donald Trump.

新闻片段: 参议员约翰·科宁背弃了特朗普总统。

Original English

News Clip: Senator John Cornin turned his back on President Trump.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 肯·帕克斯顿则一直试图将他们分开。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Ken Paxton has been trying to divide them from each other.

新闻片段: 德克萨斯州约翰·科宁告诉CBS新闻,他根本不认为唐纳德·特朗普能当选总统。这是科宁参议员相当大胆的声明。

Original English

News Clip: John Cornin of Texas told CBS News he simply doesn't think Donald Trump can get elected president. Quite a statement from Senator Cornin.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他不断地宣传和强调科宁之前与唐纳德·特朗普决裂的所有方式。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And pushing out and highlighting all the ways that Cornin has previously broken with Donald Trump.

新闻片段: 今天就加入肯·帕克斯顿参议院团队。

Original English

News Clip: Join the Ken Paxton for Senate team today.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这场竞选中打破纪录的广告战,绝大多数都是为了支持约翰·科宁。感谢科宁参议员与特朗普总统合作,让德克萨斯州再次伟大。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And the air wars that have broken the records in this race, the commercial wars have overwhelmingly been trying to prop up John Cornin. Thank you, Senator Cornin, for working with President Trump and for making Texas great again.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这样做的方式就是让他越来越接近唐纳德·特朗普

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And the way to do that is to push him closer and closer to Donald Trump.

新闻片段: 致电参议员约翰·科宁,感谢他支持特朗普总统。

Original English

News Clip: Call Senator John Cornin and thank him for standing with President Trump.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 当然,这场初选中最大的问题是总统说了什么,以及他发出了什么信号,关于他是否会支持科宁帕克斯顿,或者出人意料地支持第三位候选人亨特。几乎所有共和党竞选的初选中的初选,都是谁能得到特朗普的支持。科宁为此做了一些早期举动。他雇佣了特朗普的人,对吧?他雇佣了特朗普的民调专家作为自己的民调专家。所以当有人为特朗普就竞选情况提出建议时,你猜怎么着?那是特朗普信任的人。他的超级政治行动委员会雇佣了特朗普的竞选经理克里斯·拉西维塔来帮助领导他的超级政治行动委员会。所以他有特朗普的盟友在内部帮助他争取支持。而那些花钱支持科宁的参议院领导层,他们也在游说特朗普。他们说:“加入进来,省钱,现在就保住这个席位,支持约翰·科宁。”但特朗普就是没有这样做,对吧?尽管有民调和所有这些开支,科宁并没有甩开肯·帕克斯顿。他离**50%**的选票还差得很远。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And of course, the biggest question of all in this primary is what has the president said and what has he signaled about whether he's going to back either Cornin or Paxton or perhaps in a bit of a surprise move, the third candidate, Hunt. The primary within a primary for almost every Republican race is who can get Trump. And Cornin made some early moves for this. He hired Trump people, right? He hired Trump's pollster to be his pollster. So when there's somebody making a case for Trump about races, guess what? It's somebody Trump trusts. His super PAC hired Trump's campaign manager, Chris Lassivita, to help lead his super PAC. So he has Trump allies on the inside helping him make his case. And that Senate leadership that is spending all that money to prop up Cornin, they're lobbying Trump, too. They're saying, "Get on board. Save money. Save the seat now. Back John Cornin." And Trump just hasn't done it, right? The polling and all that spending, Cornin has not pulled away from Ken Paxton. He's not anywhere close to 50%.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 特朗普可能只需一条推文就能决定这场竞选。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Trump could probably decide this race with a tweet.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他没有这样做。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And he's not doing it.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 有可能。但特朗普也不想把他的支持浪费在一个失败的候选人身上。他非常重视自己在共和党选民中的影响力,他知道肯·帕克斯顿也很有影响力。他在肯·帕克斯顿身上看到了自己的一些影子,那种尽管丑闻缠身也能维持支持的能力。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: It's possible. But also, Trump doesn't want to waste his endorsement on a candidate who loses. He deeply values his influence with the Republican party electorate and he knows that Ken Paxton holds sway. He sees in Ken Paxton some of himself that ability to sustain your support despite scandal.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 嗯。那么,我们应该如何看待这场初选及其动态,它真正告诉我们关于特朗普第二个任期此刻的情况?因为在某些方面,最简单的分析是,民调显示,仅仅一年之后,这个国家就对特朗普总统感到非常厌倦了,尤其是在他传统上最强大的问题上。但特朗普并没有厌倦特朗普。而特朗普的基本盘,这股在初选中始终是推动和激励的力量,也没有厌倦特朗普

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Mhm. So, how should we think about what this primary race and its dynamics really tell us about this moment in Trump's second term? Because in some ways the simplest analysis is that polling shows the country is very tired of President Trump on the issues where he traditionally was the strongest after just a year. But Trump's not tired of Trump. And the Trump base, which is always the animating, galvanizing force in a primary, is not tired of Trump.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 所以,华盛顿的党派领导层认为对大选最有利的,与党派在初选中的实际运作方式之间存在着经典的紧张关系。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: And so there's that classic tension between what party leadership in Washington thinks is best for a general election.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 对,特朗普在共和党选民中持续受欢迎。这已经是近十年共和党初选的主要特征。我认为这场竞选的有趣之处在于,它不仅是对他个人受欢迎程度的考验,更是对他政治手法的受欢迎程度的考验。肯·帕克斯顿所模仿的特朗普风格,在唐纳德·特朗普之后,还能在未来取得成功吗?

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And the way the party actually works in a primary, Trump continues to be popular among Republican voters. And that is the chief defining characteristic of Republican primaries for like a decade at this point. I think what's interesting about this race is it's a test of his approaches popularity and not just his personal popularity. Is the Trump style that Ken Paxton mimics going to be successful into the future beyond Donald Trump?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 肯·帕克斯顿总是找到任何极右翼的问题,并全力投入其中,他整个职业生涯都是如此,并且在共和党基本盘中获得了真正的支持。所以我认为,这是对那种政治及其在唐纳德·特朗普之后,对党派持久吸引力的考验。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Ken Paxton finds whatever the hard right issue is and leans into it and has his whole career and he has found real support in the Republican party base for that. And so I think that this is a test of that kind of politics and its enduring appeal for the party even beyond Donald Trump.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 沙恩,我们休息一下,回来后我们将讨论德克萨斯州初选的民主党方面,以及民主党人如何考虑谁最有可能击败像肯·帕克斯顿这样的人,如果他赢了的话。他们将如何抓住这个对他们来说可能是真正的机会?我们马上回来。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Well Shane, we're going to take a break and when we come back we're going to talk about the Democratic side of this Texas primary and the question of how Democrats are thinking about who would be most electable against someone like Ken Paxton if he were to win. How would they seize what could be for them a real opportunity there? We'll be right back.

民主党初选:团结者与斗士的路线之争

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 沙恩,现在让我们转向这场初选的民主党方面。我的感觉是,它同样戏剧化,也许稍微少一点,但与共和党方面相比,戏剧性并没有少多少。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: So Shane, let us now turn to the Democratic side of this primary. And my sense is that it's been no less dramatic and maybe a little bit less, but not much less dramatic than the Republican side.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 我认为它相当戏剧化,对吧?德克萨斯州是民主党的“白鲸”。他们梦想着竞争并把德克萨斯州变成蓝色。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: I mean, it's been pretty dramatic, right? So, Texas is the white whale for the Democratic party. They dream of competing turning Texas blue.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 但他们每个周期都心碎。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: And they have their heart broken every cycle.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 是的,你曾有贝托·奥罗克差点成功。即使在上次选举中,你也有科林·奥尔雷德。民主党提名人筹集了一亿美元。其中大多数是参议院候选人,民主党认为他们可以在德克萨斯州赢得参议院竞选。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Yeah. You've had Beto Oor who came close. Even last election, you had Colin Allred. $100 million was raised by the Democratic nominee. Most of those were Senate candidates where Democrats thought we can win a Senate race in Texas.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 筹集了大量资金却最终失败。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: And raised a bunch of money only to lose.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 所以这次选举,科林·奥尔雷德说他考虑再次参选,而民主党已经在他身上花了很多钱,他们立即开始爱上另一个新人物。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And so this election starts calling all says that hey I'm looking at running again and the Democratic party already spent a bunch of money on him and they immediately begin falling in love with another new figure.

新闻片段: 请欢迎我的朋友,下一任德克萨斯州参议员,詹姆斯·塔莱里科

Original English

News Clip: Please welcome my friend, the next US senator from Texas, James Telerico.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 一位州议员加入了竞选,他的名字叫詹姆斯·塔莱里科

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: A state legislator who enters the race and his name is James Terico.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 我的祖父是南德克萨斯州的一位浸信会牧师。

Original English

James Telerico: My granddad was a Baptist preacher in South Texas.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他以这种独特的竞选视频开始。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And he starts with this kind of unique launch video.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 他在我很小的时候就教导我,我们追随一位赤脚的拉比,他只给了两条诫命:爱上帝和爱邻居。

Original English

James Telerico: And he taught me when I was real little that we follow a barefoot rabbi who gave just two commandments. Love God and love neighbor because.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他站在外面与支持者在一起,看起来就像一位牧师和他的羊群站在教堂外面。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: It is him outside standing with supporters. It looks almost like a preacher and their flock outside a church building.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 这个美国民主不仅仅是一部宪法,它是一个契约。

Original English

James Telerico: This American democracy is a lot more than a constitution. It's a covenant.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他谈论的是团结我们而不是分裂我们的东西,以及如何将人们聚集在一起。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And he's talking about what unites us rather than what divides us and bringing people together.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 这是一种邻里之间的关系。这是我们互相承诺分享这个国家的诺言。

Original English

James Telerico: It's a relationship between neighbors. It's a promise that we make to each other to share this country.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 虽然他正在参加民主党初选,但这给人一种非常强烈的感觉,他正在向各个政治光谱的选民伸出援手,让自己对中间选民更具吸引力。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And while he's entering a Democratic primary, this very much has the feel of a person reaching out to voters across the political spectrum to make yourself palatable to that middle of the electorate.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 上帝保佑你们。谢谢。

Original English

James Telerico: God bless you. Thank you.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他去年九月参加了竞选,但他的竞选活动实际上在几个月前就开始了。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: He entered the race last September, but his campaign really began a couple months earlier.

乔·罗根: 你好吗,詹姆斯?我很好,你呢?很好,很高兴见到你。

Original English

Joe Rogan: How are you, James? I'm too well. How are you? Very good. Nice to meet you.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 很高兴见到你。谢谢你的邀请。

Original English

James Telerico: It's nice to meet you. Thanks for having me.

乔·罗根: 我的荣幸。

Original English

Joe Rogan: My pleasure.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 他在乔·罗根的播客上露面。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: With an appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast.

乔·罗根: 看到一个基督徒不主张在学校里教授十诫,总是很有趣。

Original English

Joe Rogan: It's always interesting to see a person who is a Christian who is not for of the Ten Commandments in schools.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 是的。

Original English

James Telerico: Yeah.

乔·罗根: 我认为你提出了一个非常有说服力的论点。

Original English

Joe Rogan: And I think you made a very compelling argument.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 是的,我经常听到这种说法。人们会说:“你正在神学院学习,准备成为一名牧师。为什么你不想在每个教室里都有十诫呢?”所以我明白。

Original English

James Telerico: Yeah. You know, I've gotten that a lot. People who are like, you're in seminary, you're studying to become a minister. Why wouldn't you want the Ten Commandments in every classroom? So, I recognize.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 塔莱里科不是一个普通的民主党人。他是一个上过神学院、虔诚的民主党人,他的言谈举止与普通民主党人有些不同。罗根很喜欢他。这种现象在两党都存在,但我认为近年来,这种“取消文化”在我的党派中已经成为一种默认的精神状态。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And Terrio is not your standard fair Democrat. He's a Democrat who had gone to seminary school, is deeply religious, and he speaks a little bit differently than your average Democrat. And Rogan loves it. This certainly exists on both sides of the aisle, but I think in recent years, this cancel culture on my side of the aisle has just become kind of the default spirituality.

乔·罗根: 在左翼。

Original English

Joe Rogan: On the left.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 是的。

Original English

James Telerico: Yes.

乔·罗根: 这太糟糕了,因为。

Original English

Joe Rogan: And it is so toxic because.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 这不一定非得这样。

Original English

James Telerico: Right, it doesn't have to be this way.

乔·罗根: 这是关键的一步。所以我说你需要竞选总统。他说詹姆斯·塔莱里科应该竞选总统。

Original English

Joe Rogan: That is the key step. So I say you need to run for president. He says that James Telico should run for president.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这次采访恰逢德克萨斯州共和党州长正在特朗普总统的指示下重新划分选区。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And this interview comes just as the Republican governor of Texas is redrawing the redistricting lines at President Trump's behest.

新闻片段: 在特朗普总统的指示下。

Original English

News Clip: At President Trump's behest.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 为了让特朗普尽可能多地获得共和党国会席位。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: To get Trump as many Republican congressional seats as possible.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 塔莱里科的民主党州议员团体逃离了该州。所以他出现在全国电视上。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And Taler Rico's group of Democratic state lawmakers, they flee the state. So he's on national television.

新闻片段: 为了剥夺州议会的法定人数,以便重新划分选区。

Original English

News Clip: In order to deprive the state legislature of a quorum in order to redraw a line.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这很戏剧化,实际上最终没有成功。但在此过程中,塔莱里科乔·罗根节目中获得关注后,现在出现在所有有线电视网络上。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: It's dramatic and in fact it ends up not working but along the way. Terico who just had this moment on Joe Rogan is now on all the cable networks.

新闻片段: 现在来到德克萨斯州,一项新的重新划分选区计划得到了支持。

Original English

News Clip: Now to Texas where a new redistricting plan backed by.

新闻片段: 德克萨斯州众议员詹姆斯·塔莱里科加入了我们的报道。

Original English

News Clip: Joining our coverage is Texas State Representative James Telerico.

新闻片段: 詹姆斯·塔莱里科

Original English

News Clip: James Telerico.

新闻片段: 众议员塔莱里科,非常感谢您与我们交谈。

Original English

News Clip: Representative Telico. Thanks so much for talking with us.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 谢谢你的邀请。

Original English

James Telerico: Thanks for having me.

新闻片段: 作为民主党抵抗特朗普的敏锐、口齿清晰、善于表达的代表人物。

Original English

News Clip: As a sharp, articulate, well spoken face of a Democratic party's resistance to Trump.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 我不同意这不是种族歧视性选区划分。你看看这些地图,它们划分的社区,它们稀释的声音,主要是黑人和棕色人种。

Original English

James Telerico: I would disagree that this is not racial gerrymandering. You take a look at these maps and the communities they divide, the voices they dilute, it is primarily black and brown.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 所以他在劳动节前后参加了竞选,就像火箭一样一飞冲天,在网上筹集了大量的资金。所以塔莱里科,一开始只是一个不起眼的角色,到年底时,他看起来像是主导力量,很可能是民主党参议员的提名人。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And so he enters this race around Labor Day and just shoots off like a rocket ship, raises gobs and gobs of money online. And so Terrio, who entered this race as an asterisk by the end of the year, looks like the dominant force and the likely Democratic nominee for Senate.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 看起来好像真的没有什么初选了。然后,在12月,一个巨大的转折出现了,另一位候选人加入了竞选。民主党的另一位超级明星。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Seems like there really isn't much of a primary. And then in December, in a huge twist, another candidate enters the race. Another superstar for the Democratic Party.

贾斯敏·克罗克特: 让我说清楚。

Original English

Jasmine Crockett: Let me be clear.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 贾斯敏·克罗克特

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Jasmine Crockett.

贾斯敏·克罗克特: 唐纳德·特朗普正在推行现代美国历史上最公开的种族主义移民政策。我已经说过一次了。

Original English

Jasmine Crockett: Donald Trump is running the most openly racist immigration regime in modern American history. I've said it once.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 克罗克特,如果你了解她,民主党初选选民也了解她,他们中的很多人都了解她,她是一个以牙还牙的民主党人。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And Crockett, to the extent that you know her and Democratic primary voters know her and many of them do, is as a Democrat who is fighting fire with fire.

贾斯敏·克罗克特: 你知道我们来这里是为了什么吗?我认为你不知道你来这里是为了什么。

Original English

Jasmine Crockett: Do you know what we're here for? You know, we're here about I don't think you know what you're here for.

新闻片段: 你是那个在说什么的人。

Original English

News Clip: Well, you the one talking about I guess.

新闻片段: 我认为你的假睫毛搞砸了。等等。

Original English

News Clip: I think your fake eyelashes are messing up. Hold on. Hold on.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 她曾与马乔里·泰勒·格林一起参加委员会听证会,她们互相攻击。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: She's been in these committee hearings with Marjorie Taylor Green where they've just attacked each other.

新闻片段: 克罗克特小姐。

Original English

News Clip: Miss Crockett.

新闻片段: 我只是好奇,为了更好地理解你的裁决。如果这个委员会的某人开始谈论某人的漂白金发、巴杜身材、假小子身体,那就不算是人身攻击。对吗?

Original English

News Clip: I'm just curious just to better understand your ruling. If someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde, badu built butch body, that would not be engaging in personalities. Correct.

新闻片段: 什么?

Original English

News Clip: A what now?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这些事情已经病毒式传播,而且一遍又一遍地病毒式传播。有时她会越界,就像特朗普做过很多次一样。她攻击了德克萨斯州坐轮椅的州长格雷格·阿博特

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And these things have gone viral and they've gone viral over and over again. And sometimes she goes over the line, as Trump has done so many times. She has attacked the governor of Texas who is in a wheelchair, Greg Abbott.

贾斯敏·克罗克特: 你们都知道我们那里有“风火轮州长”。拜托了。

Original English

Jasmine Crockett: Y'all know we got Governor Hot Wheels down there. Come on now.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 她称他为“风火轮州长”。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And she has called him Governor Hot Wheels.

贾斯敏·克罗克特: 他唯一火热的地方就是他一团糟,亲爱的。所以,是的,是的,是的。她后来表示这与他坐轮椅的事实无关。她只是碰巧叫他“风火轮州长”。

Original English

Jasmine Crockett: And the only thing hot about him is that he is a hot ass mess, honey. So, yes. Yes. Yes. She later said it had no reference to the fact that he's in a wheelchair. She just happened to call him Governor Hot Wheels.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 她加入了竞选,她与詹姆斯·塔莱里科在民主党和竞选方式上几乎是截然相反的。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And she enters this race and she's sort of a polar opposite Democrat and approach than James Talerico.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 不是弥合者,而是分裂者。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Not a healer, but a rupturer.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 一个分裂者。塔莱里科最近对《纽约客》说了一句很棒的话。他说:“这就像一颗小行星撞击了我们的竞选活动。贾斯敏·克罗克特的到来就像一颗小行星撞击了塔莱里科这颗冉冉升起的新星。”

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: A rupture. And Terarico gave a great quote recently to The New Yorker. He said, "It was like an asteroid hit our campaign. Jasmine Crockett's arrival is an asteroid that rams into the rising star of Telerico."

沙恩·戈德马赫: 当克罗克特加入竞选时,她多么有力地拥护了斗士和小行星的角色?她的整个竞选活动都是如此。她的开场广告非常令人难忘且独特。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And when Crockett enters the race, how forcefully does she espouse the role of the fighter of the asteroid? This is the entirety of her candidacy. Her opening ad is really a memorable and a unique one.

新闻片段: 这个新的怎么样?他们有新的萨尔·克罗克特。她怎么样?

Original English

News Clip: How about this new one? They have their new Sar Crockett. How about her?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 广告中她的头歪向一边,整个广告都是由唐纳德·特朗普旁白的。但你有这位女士,克罗克特。她是一个智商很低的人。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: It features her head tilted to the side and the entire ad is narrated by Donald Trump. But you have this woman, Crockett. She's a very low IQ person.

唐纳德·特朗普: 我前几天看她讲话了。她绝对是一个智商很低的人。

Original English

Donald Trump: I watched her speak the other day. She's definitely a low IQ person.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这就是唐纳德·特朗普在攻击她。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: It's just Donald Trump attacking her.

唐纳德·特朗普: 有人前几天说,她是党派领导人之一。我说:“你在开玩笑吧。”

Original English

Donald Trump: Somebody said the other day, she's one of the leaders of the party. I said, "You got to be kidding."

沙恩·戈德马赫: 她最终转向镜头,交叉双臂,她就是斗士。她传递的信息是,她是他们所害怕的斗士。她公开她的计划。她不想去弥合分歧,也不想争取那些不满的共和党选民。她将动员并创造一个新的民主党选民群体,为党派夺取德克萨斯州。她采取了一种非常不同的方法。所以克罗克特激发了民主党的基本盘。你知道她还激发了谁吗?共和党。共和党对她加入这场竞选感到非常兴奋。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: She eventually turns at the camera, crosses her arms, and she is the fighter. She's the fighter that they fear is the message. And she's open about her plans. She doesn't want to go heal and bring in disaffected Republican voters. She is going to mobilize and create a new electorate of Democrats to take over Texas for the party. She's got a very different approach. And so Crockett excites the base of the Democratic party. You know who else she excites? The Republican party. The Republicans are thrilled with her entry in this race.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 事实上,共和党人曾悄悄地试图让她参选。第一次民调显示她可能成为民主党提名人,那是参议院共和党委员会出资的。他们在前一个夏天公布了这份民调,试图搅动局面。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: In fact, Republicans had quietly tried to get her to run. The first poll that showed that she could be the Democratic nominee, it was paid for by the Senate Republican Party Committee. They put it out the summer before to try to stir the pot.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 所以在可选举性问题上,共和党人非常确信,如果贾斯敏·克罗克特赢得民主党初选,无论他们的提名人是谁,他们赢得德克萨斯州、赢得参议院席位的机会都会大得多。如果共和党人担心肯·帕克斯顿可能会让他们输掉这场竞选,那么他们也相信贾斯敏·克罗克特同样可能让他们赢得这场竞选。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: So on the selectibility question, Republicans are quite convinced that if Jasmine Crockett wins the primary on the Democratic side, they stand a far better chance, no matter who their nominee is, of winning Texas, winning the Senate seat. If Republicans are afraid that Ken Paxton could lose this race for them, they're confident that Jasmine Crockett could also win this race for them.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 太棒了。那么,民主党人是如何看待克罗克特塔莱里科这两位截然相反的初选候选人的呢?民调告诉我们什么?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Fascinating. And so, how are Democrats thinking about these two pretty polar opposite candidates in this primary, Crockett and Terrier? What are the polls telling us?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 民调立即显示,克罗克特一进入竞选就取得了领先。坦率地说,这场竞选一直很激烈。出现了许多带有种族色彩的攻击。塔莱里科的盟友指出克罗克特过去关于拉丁裔选民及其对特朗普的暧昧态度是“奴隶心态”的言论。而克罗克特的一些盟友和她本人则批评塔莱里科以及围绕他的“可选举性”论点是种族主义的。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: The polls immediately show that Crockett takes a lead when she enters this race. And the race, frankly, has been pretty charged. There's been a lot of attacks along racial lines. Allies of Terico have pointed to old statements that Crockett made about Latino voters and their flirtation with Trump as having a slave mentality. And some of Crockett's allies and Crockett herself have criticized Telerico and the entire electability argument that has surrounded him as racist.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 我们应该说,因为我们还没有提到,贾斯敏·克罗克特是黑人。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: We should say because we haven't that Jasmine Crockett is black.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 贾斯敏·克罗克特是黑人,詹姆斯·塔莱里科是白人。所以克罗克特的一些支持者提出的论点是:“哦,那么德克萨斯州唯一能当选的候选人必须是白人。”沙恩,我必须想象塔莱里科和他的竞选团队正在关注贾斯敏·克罗克特的民调数字,并意识到他们可能需要调整,确保民主党选民也认为他是一个斗士。这将是我的政治逻辑。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Jasmine Crockett is black and James Telerico is white. And so the argument that some of the folks supportive of Crockett have made is, "Oh, so the only electable candidate in Texas has to be white." Shane, I have to imagine that Telerico and his campaign are watching Jasmine Crockett's polling numbers and recognizing that they need to potentially adjust and make sure that the Democratic electorate sees him as some kind of a fighter as well. That would be my political logic.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 是的,我不想夸大他从一开始就完全是一个弥合者。他确实确定了一个反派。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Yeah. I don't want to overstate that he's exclusively been a healer from the start, right? He has identified a villain.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这个反派就是亿万富翁。他从一开始就反对亿万富翁阶层,并说:“我们所有的选民,左翼、右翼、温和派,我们都在同一边。我们反对那些压迫我们的亿万富翁。”他正在攻击,他正在攻击特朗普政府。在他最近的一个广告中,他攻击了特朗普政府的移民政策。他没有像贾斯敏·克罗克特的竞选团队那样公开攻击他。而且,她看起来一直是这场竞选的领跑者。然后,最近几周,又出现了一个转折。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And the villain is billionaires. He has run from the start against the billionaire class and said, "We all the voters, the left, the right, the moderates, we are all on the same side. It's against these billionaires that are putting us down." And he is attacking, he's attacking the Trump administration. He's attacking in one of his last ads the immigration policies of the Trump administration. He's not attacking Jasmine Crockett in a way that her campaign has been pretty open about attacking him. And she has looked like the front runner in this race. And then in recent weeks, there's been a twist.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 是什么?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Right? Which is.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 在一场充满小行星的竞选中。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: In a race full of asteroids.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 在一场充满小行星的竞选中,我们有了更多的火箭燃料。我们将把外太空的比喻用到这里。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: In a race full of asteroids, we've got more rocket fuel. We're going to go the outer space metaphor to the end here.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这就是斯蒂芬·科尔伯特

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And this one is Steven Colbear.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 这就是斯蒂芬·科尔伯特。所以塔莱里科来到纽约,他将参加科尔伯特的《晚间秀》。他录制了这个片段,但片段没有播出。科尔伯特说,这个片段没有在他的节目中播出,因为他被告知不要播出,因为联邦通信委员会威胁说,如果只播出初选中的一方或多位候选人中的一位,就会有问题。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And this is Steven Colbear. So Trico is coming to New York and he's going to do The Late Show with Col Bear. And he records this segment and the segment doesn't air. And Colbear says the segment doesn't air on his show because he was told not to air it because there was a threat from the Federal Communications Commission about airing only one side of a primary race or one candidate in a multicandidate field.

斯蒂芬·科尔伯特: 现在,事情是这样的。我通常不会对嘉宾说这个,但如果人们现在正在看这个,那是因为他们在YouTube上找到了我们。

Original English

Stephen Colbear: Now, here's the thing. I don't usually say this to a guest, but if people are watching this right now, it's cuz they found us online on YouTube.

斯蒂芬·科尔伯特: 而让人们看到某件事最有效的方法,就是告诉他们一开始不应该看到它。

Original English

Stephen Colbear: And the shest way to get people to see something is to tell them that they aren't supposed to see it in the first place.

詹姆斯·塔莱里科: 你是想制造麻烦吗?

Original English

James Telerico: Do you mean to cause trouble?

斯蒂芬·科尔伯特: 我认为唐纳德·特朗普担心我们即将翻转德克萨斯州

Original English

Stephen Colbear: I think that Donald Trump is worried that we're about to flip Texas.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 所以这对塔莱里科来说是一个巨大的病毒式传播时刻。他可以说:“看,你想知道谁最有可能当选吗?我就是那个让特朗普政府如此害怕,甚至不想让我上电视的人,对吧?”这个事情的具体细节可能没有那个故事那么清晰,但如果你要讲一个故事,这对塔莱里科的竞选来说是一个完美的故事。那天他筹集了大量的资金,获得了大量的观看,特朗普政府的行动和塔莱里科的讲述表明他们真的很害怕他。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And so this is a huge viral moment for Terrio. Gets to say, "Look, you want to know who's most electable here? I'm somebody who scares the Trump administration so much they don't even want me on television, right?" And the specifics of this, not as clear as maybe that storytelling, but if you're going to tell a story, it's a perfect story for the Telerico campaign. And he raises tons of money that day, gets lots of views, and the actions of the Trump administration and the Telerico telling shows that they're really afraid of him.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 所以,此刻这场对决基本上是势均力敌,是一场真正的身份危机式的初选吗?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: So in this confrontation at this point is it basically a dead heat a true identity crisis kind of primary?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 是的,我们不知道谁会赢得这场初选。我认为我们知道的是,这场斗争与民主党今年在其他竞选中以及在2028年更大规模的竞选中将要经历的斗争完全相同。民主党的未来面貌是什么?你是选择一个准备好全程出拳的人?还是选择一个公开表示“我想接触中间派”的人?你是动员你的基本盘?还是争取摇摆选民?你能两者兼顾吗?这是党内巨大的争论,现在正在由党内两位明星人物上演。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Yeah, we do not know who is going to win this primary. What I think we do know is that this fight is the exact same fight that the Democratic Party is going to be going through in other races this year and in a bigger race in 2028. What is the future face of the Democratic party? Do you turn to a person who is ready to just throw punches the entire time? Or do you turn to a person who is outwardly saying, "I want to reach out to the middle." Do you mobilize your base? Do you reach for swing voters? Can you do both? This is the huge debate in the party and it's playing out with two of the stars of the party right now.

大选展望与德州的重要性

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 好的,让我们暂时展望一下理论上的大选。我们的对话将在我们知道获胜者之前进行。而且我们可能在共和党方面相当长一段时间内都不知道获胜者,如果像我们预期的那样,会有一场第二轮选举。那么,请设想一下这场竞选可能是什么样子。民主党人无法赢得这场竞选是必然的结论吗?

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Okay, let's project for just a moment to a theoretical general election. Our conversation will run before we know the winners. And we may not know the winners on the Republican side for quite some time. If there is, as we expect, a runoff. So, just conjure what this race might look like. And is it a foregone conclusion that Democrats can't win this race?

沙恩·戈德马赫: 在唐纳德·特朗普越来越不受欢迎,并且在经济这个关键问题上失去支持的一年里,我认为说任何一个州都会完全排除在外是不公平的,特别是考虑到肯·帕克斯顿,共和党用言语和金钱表示他们担心他可能会输。詹姆斯·塔莱里科最初参加这场竞选,他说这是因为他喜欢他与肯·帕克斯顿形成的反差。所以这似乎是最吸引人们的场景。詹姆斯·塔莱里科对阵肯·帕克斯顿的大选。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: In a year where Donald Trump is increasingly unpopular and losing support on the key issue of the economy, I don't think it's fair to say any state is going to be entirely off the table, especially with Ken Paxton, who the Republican party is saying in words and money they're afraid could lose. James Tarico entered this race in the first place. He has said this because he liked the contrast that he would present with Ken Paxton. So that's the scenario that intrigues people it feels like the most. The general election in which James Telerico runs against Ken Paxton.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 是的,这是共和党人最想避免的场景。共和党人已经介入阻止肯·帕克斯顿,他们也介入鼓励贾斯敏·克罗克特。所以你不必相信我,也不必相信所有策略师公开或私下说的话。他们的行动表明,这是他们一直试图避免的对决。当然,在美国政治中,每个人都可能犯错,也可能再次犯错。而且贾斯敏·克罗克特可能会赢得民主党初选,并成为一个相当强大的大选候选人。是的,我的意思是,有些人,其中最主要的就是唐纳德·特朗普,他们通过激励共和党基本盘而获胜。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Yeah. This is the scenario that Republicans have most wanted to avoid. Republicans have intervened to stop Ken Paxton and they've intervened to encourage Jasmine Crockett. So you don't have to believe me or what all the strategists are saying on the record or off the record. Their actions show that is the matchup they've been trying to avoid here. Of course, everyone has and can be again wrong in American politics. And it could turn out that Jasmine Crockett wins the Democratic primary and emerges as a quite strong general election candidate. Yeah. I mean, there are people, Donald Trump, chief among them, who have won by motivating the Republican party base.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 我确实想再次强调德克萨斯州的重要性。它已经是这个国家最大的州之一,而且还在增长。下次进行人口普查时,它可能会增加四个国会席位。这是预测。民主党人认为他们不能让这个州从地图上消失。他们需要找到一种方法在德克萨斯州竞争。所以,这对党派来说是一个重要的考验。你能找到一个候选人、一个信息、一种风格来让德克萨斯州具有竞争力吗?

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: And I do want to bring back Texas and why Texas is so important. It's already one of the biggest states in the country. It's growing. The next time that they do a census, it's going to pick up maybe four congressional seats. That's the projection. This is not a state that Democrats think they can let fall off the map. They need to find a way to compete in Texas. And so, this is an important test for the party. Can you find a candidate, a message, a style to make Texas competitive?

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 沙恩,非常感谢你。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Shane, thank you very much.

沙恩·戈德马赫: 谢谢。

Original English

Shane Goldmacher: Thank you.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 德克萨斯州的投票从早上7点开始,晚上7点结束。到目前为止,民主党方面的提前投票已经创下了历史新高。如果不出所料,共和党竞选结果需要进行第二轮选举,那场选举将在5月举行。我们马上回来。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: The voting in Texas begins at 7:00 a.m. and ends at 7:00 p.m. So far, early voting has already reached record highs on the Democratic side. If, as expected, the Republican race results in a runoff, that election will be held in May. We'll be right back.

其他新闻:伊朗战争升级

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 还有其他你需要知道的。周一,对伊朗的战争显著升级。在黎巴嫩,受伊朗支持的民兵组织真主党以色列发射火箭弹,促使以色列轰炸了贝鲁特郊外的民兵据点。在沙特阿拉伯卡塔尔,官员表示伊朗袭击了关键基础设施,包括一座能源工厂和一座炼油厂。在科威特,当地防空系统误击落了三架美国战斗机,这是战争中首次重大友军误伤事件之一。所有六名美国机组人员幸存,其中一人在地面受到一群心存感激的科威特男子的迎接。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Here's what else you need to know day. On Monday, the war against Iran meaningfully expanded. In Lebanon, the Iranianbacked militia group Hezbollah fired rockets into Israel, prompting Israel to bombard the militia's strongholds outside Beirut. In Saudi Arabia and Qatar, officials said that Iran had attacked key pieces of infrastructure, including an energy plant and an oil refinery. In Kuwait, local air defenses mistakenly shot down three American fighter jets in one of the war's first major incidents of friendly fire. All six American crew members survived and one of them was greeted on the ground by a grateful group of Kuwaiti men.

科威特男子: 你安全了。你安全了。一切都好。谢谢你帮助我们。一切都好。

Original English

Kuwaiti Man: You're safe. You're safe. Everything good. Thank you for helping us. Everything.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 最后,在美国,军方领导人表示他们将向该地区增派部队和战斗机。特朗普总统表示,美国与以色列的袭击可能会比原计划持续更长时间。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Finally, in the United States, military leaders said they would send more troops and fighter jets to the region. And President Trump said that the American Israeli assault could last even longer than originally planned.

唐纳德·特朗普: 从一开始,我们就预计是四到五周,但我们有能力比那更长久。我们会做到的。今天有人说:“哦,总统想很快完成。之后他会感到无聊。”我不会感到无聊。这没有什么无聊的。

Original English

Donald Trump: Right from the get beginning, we projected four to five weeks, but we have capability to go far longer than that. We'll do it. Whatever somebody said today, they said, "Oh, well, president wants to do it really quickly. After that, he'll get bored." I don't get bored. There's nothing boring about this.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 今天这集节目由穆吉·扎德伊克莱尔·特尼斯塞特卡洛斯·普里托制作,穆斯塔法·梅萨克里斯蒂娜·阿瓦洛斯协助。雷切尔·奎斯特编辑。包含玛丽安·洛扎诺丹·鲍威尔黛安·王的音乐。我们的主题曲由Wonderly创作。本集由艾丽莎·莫克斯利进行工程制作。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: Today's episode was produced by Mooj Zadei, Claire Tennisceter, and Carlos Prito with help from Mustava Mesa and Christina Avalos. It was edited by Rachel Quester. Contains music by Marian Lozano, Dan Powell, and Diane Wong. Our theme song is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Alyssa Moxley.

迈克尔·巴巴罗: 《The Daily》节目到此结束。我是迈克尔·巴巴罗。明天见。

Original English

Michael Bavaro: That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Babano. See you tomorrow.

关键字: midterm-elections political-strategy party-identity voter-mobilization candidate-electability