Natalie Kitroeff: From the New York Times, I'm Natalie Ketrof. This is the Daily. When the Mexican military captured and killed the country's top drug lord, it revealed how much President Trump's growing pressure is forcing the country to take on the cartels. Today, my colleagues Maria Abihabib and Jack Nikas on the operation to take down that drug lord, El Mencho, and whether Mexico has what it takes to win a war on some of the most powerful criminals in the world.

Jack Nicas: Maria, Jack, wonderful to have you both on the show. Three Mexico City bureau chiefs. I'm sitting in your old office, Natalie.

Natalie Kitroeff: So, we have you here because the news that Mexico had taken out El Mencho, the head of the Halisco cartel, was massive. And we've learned in the days since that the Trump administration played a big part in that. So, level set for us. Why is the takeown of this one cartel leader such a big deal?

Jack Nicas: Well, El Mencho was arguably the single biggest criminal in the world. He was arguably the most wanted man in the world. He led the biggest cartel in Mexico. He led the biggest cartel perhaps in the world. And I know we tend to avoid using superlatives, but it's hard to overstate the importance and significance of this figure in the criminal world. And it's a really big deal that the Mexican government went after him because he had been on the run for two decades. He has ties to government figures around the Mexican government. And this is 4 months just before the World Cup arrives, just a few hours from where he was found. And this is a major move that could open a new chapter of violence in Mexico.

Maria Abi-Habib: Yeah. I also think that at this point, this is a huge test for the Mexican government. They have never been tested like this. And the last time they tried to really take on a domestic threat like this was about 15 years ago. But that was a different cartel which was not nearly as big, did not nearly have the geographical reach or the penchant for brutality that Halisco cartel has. So we're going to be seeing Mexico security forces tested in a way that we've never seen before. So let's see what happens.

Natalie Kitroeff: Okay, let's talk about El Mencho, this cartel leader. I think for a lot of listeners, he wasn't a household name. So lay out for me how El Mencho got to be the most wanted man in the world.

Maria Abi-Habib: Well, he was born into poverty in the state of Mitwakan, which is in the west. He has five brothers. He grew up kind of growing avocados, which is one of the livelihoods of Mituakan. A lot of the avocados that Americans make guacamole from, come from that state. He dropped out of primary school, I think about fifth grade, to work in the fields. And then by the time he was a teenager, he started to guard marijuana plantations apparently.

Jack Nicas: And then he decided that he wanted to immigrate to California. So he did so in the 1980s. Apparently he said he wanted a better life. So he moves up to San Francisco, the Bay Area, and he ends up falling back into crime, and he gets arrested by the police up there. He's about 20 at this point, and he ends up getting deported. But like the soant that he is, he decides that he's going to start changing names and he starts criss-crossing the US Mexico border. Every time he's arrested, he gets thrown back into Mexico. He comes back. By 1992, he's arrested one last time at this point in Sacramento, California. And he's arrested because he and his brother are carrying out a heroin deal. And he spends 3 years in prison. And so at this point, he's deported again to Mexico and he's in his 30s. And he joins the local police.

Natalie Kitroeff: Wow. Former drug dealer becomes a police officer. Kind of a wild career switch.

Maria Abi-Habib: You know, it happens more than you would think in Mexico because we have to remember that Mexico has corruption problems specifically within the police.

Jack Nicas: Well, so he kind of realizes that, well, everybody else is on the take and I'd be a sucker not to be on the take. So he switches over and he joins the Millennial Cartel which at this point is very very strong in the country southwest. And strategically he realizes the way to really rise up the ranks of this cartel is to marry one of the leader daughters.

Maria Abi-Habib: Yeah. And so he rises through the ranks and then in 2008 and 2009, government security forces end up arresting or killing a bunch of leaders from the Millennial Cartel. Exactly. And it sets off this extremely bloody, brutal leadership fight for who becomes the head honcho of Millennial Cartel. And through sheer brute force and his ability to really embrace some of the most disgusting, gruesome, brutal acts, who rises and ends up being on top? Well, it's El Mencho. and he spins off his forces to form an independent cartel, which is the Kalisco New Generation Cartel.

Jack Nicas: And what is the defining feature of this new group he's leading, the Halisco cartel? It's his ability to or want and desire to really just be as brutal as absolutely possible. So for instance, there were reports that his new recruits, he really needed these people to show that they would be as compliant as foot soldiers as they possibly could be and that they were also willing to implement the levels of violence that he himself favored. So for instance, there were reports of cannibalism. you're a recruit and guess what? You've got to eat somebody. Somebody who had betrayed the cartel.

Maria Abi-Habib: Oh, for sure. He wants the Khalisco cartel to have a finger in every pie. So, avocados, obviously... And then he expands his empire and it becomes more of like a conglomerate. He's not just doing drugs. He's in the hotel industry. They start bilking, you know, senior citizens from the United States to Canada from their time shares. And also, they're now involved in illegal gold mining throughout South America. It gives them resources. It's natural for us to make the analogy that these guys are a Fortune 500 company with a diverse set of businesses. No question. They are also in a way a state actor.

Natalie Kitroeff: Okay. Given what you've both laid out about the steady and menacing rise of this group and their power across Mexico, I think a lot of people are going to be wondering at this point, what was the government doing this whole time that this was happening?

Jack Nicas: The reality is El Mencho was very elusive. He basically... just used human messengers. He was not on the phone. He did not use radio. In 2015, they also nearly caught El Mencho, but his gunmen literally shot down a Mexican military helicopter, killing three soldiers, and he got away then as well. But over the past decade, there really haven't been many close calls. And I think that is in part because of incompetence by the Mexican authorities, but it is also in part because of complicity.

Natalie Kitroeff: And it's what makes it even more shocking that the Mexican government was able to go up against El Mencho this time and actually get him. So Jack, walk me through how that operation went down.

Jack Nicas: So, what we know is that on Sunday morning, Mexican special forces and the Mexican army raided a rental home... they got into a very intense firefight with El Mencho and his men. Mencho slipped out the back and tried to escape... Eventually, Mexican forces then found him hiding in the brush. They shot Mencho and his bodyguards. The Mexican government says that they identified a "close associate" of a woman who was one of El Mencho's lovers. It also appears that there was important information coming from the CIA.

Natalie Kitroeff: Marie and Jack, I think one of the biggest questions hanging over all this is just given how long this cartel's power has been steadily expanding... why did the Mexican government do this at this moment? Why now?

Jack Nicas: For one, the Mexican authorities had a piece of very actionable intelligence... But this also comes amid the backdrop of a very aggressive offensive against the cartels by President Shane Bomb (Sheinbaum). And then there also is one other major difference and that is Donald J. Trump. What we have in Mexico right now is a sustained pressure campaign from the White House to do more against the cartels. He is saying the Mexican government must solve its cartel problems or the US military will do it.

Maria Abi-Habib: Well, you have to remember that California used to be Mexico. There's concerns about sovereignty... And it should be said, this isn't just an idle threat that Trump is making at this point, right? This is a president who has literally just gone into Venezuela and ousted the president by force. It's what keeps President Shamb (Sheinbaum) up at night.

Natalie Kitroeff: Given that, let's talk about what this capture means for the cartel that El Mencho ran moving forward. How big of a blow is this for them?

Maria Abi-Habib: Well, it depends on whether or not the commanders who were under El Mencho can agree amongst themselves a clear clean path to succession. If the cartel cannibalizes itself... then we could see it fracture. I think that what we haven't seen from the Mexican government is addressing the corruption. The reality is the only way for this criminal group to get this powerful and this big is through the complicity of officials across the nation.

Jack Nicas: I think Trump's goalposts are infinite. Less than 24 hours after the Mexican government killed El Mencho... Trump posted online, quote, "Mexico must step up their efforts on cartel and drugs." And that is, I think, a clear sign that the demands aren't going to end. And possibly that's also what is necessary because there are signs that Trump's pressure is creating a dynamic in Mexico that really hasn't existed before.