引言：重新介绍马拉拉

Anna: Hi Malala, I'm Anna.

Anna: Today I'm speaking to Malala Yousafzai.

Anna: Malala became a feminist and political icon at 15 years old after a member of the Taliban (Taliban: 阿富汗的一个伊斯兰原教旨主义军事政治组织) tried to assassinate her while she was riding the school bus. She was targeted for saying that girls should have the right to go to school.

Anna: 大家好，马拉拉，我是安娜。

Anna: 今天我采访的是马拉拉·优素福扎伊。

Anna: 马拉拉在15岁时，因主张女孩应享有受教育的权利，在乘坐校车时遭到一名塔利班成员的暗杀，自此成为了一名女权主义者和政治偶像。

Malala: When I see my school in this way, so I'm very shameful of my army.

Malala: 当我看到我的学校变成这样，我为我的军队感到非常羞耻。

Anna: At 16, she wrote a memoir (memoir: 个人亲身经历的记录，通常侧重于特定时期或事件) about the experience. And at 17, she won the Nobel Peace Prize (Nobel Peace Prize: 每年颁发给为促进世界和平做出杰出贡献者的国际奖项), becoming the youngest person to ever win that award.

Anna: 16岁时，她写了一本关于那段经历的回忆录。17岁时，她获得了诺贝尔和平奖，成为有史以来最年轻的获奖者。

Anna: For years, the world has known her as this extraordinary young activist. But now, she has a new memoir out. It's called Finding My Way.

Anna: 多年来，世人一直将她视为这位非凡的年轻活动家。但现在，她出版了一本新的回忆录，名为《寻找我的路》。

Anna: And in it, she talks about learning to do ordinary things, make friends, find her personal style, go to parties, study for exams, even fall in love.

Anna: 在书中，她讲述了自己如何学习做一些普通的事情：交朋友、找到个人风格、参加派对、备考，甚至坠入爱河。

Anna: From The New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Malala, welcome to Modern Love.

Anna: 这里是《纽约时报》的安娜·马丁，这是《摩登情爱》。马拉拉，欢迎来到《摩登情爱》。

Malala: Thank you.

Malala: 谢谢。

Anna: We are so happy that you're in the studio with us. Congratulations on your new memoir, Finding My Way.

Anna: 我们很高兴你能来到演播室。祝贺你的新回忆录《寻找我的路》出版。

Malala: Thank you so much. I'm so excited.

Malala: 非常感谢，我非常激动。

Anna: You are now a double memoirist.

Anna: 你现在是一位写了两本回忆录的作者了。

Malala: Yes.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: Will you make it a third, a triple memoir in a couple years, or is this enough for now?

Anna: 几年后你会写第三本，成为一个三部曲作者吗？还是说现在这样就足够了？

Malala: Oh, I just want to focus on this one for now.

Malala: 哦，目前我只想专注于这一本。

Anna: That makes sense. How many memoirs can one person write? Do you think there's a limit?

Anna: 这很合理。一个人能写多少本回忆录呢？你觉得有限制吗？

Malala: I think people know when it's time to write one.

Malala: 我觉得人们知道什么时候该写一本。

等待时机：为何写第二本回忆录

Malala: I actually waited for this one. I was asked by so many people, "Why don't you write another book?" And I was like, "About what? Who wants to write if there's nothing meaningful?"

Malala: 其实我一直在等这一个。很多人问我：“你为什么不写另一本书呢？”我当时想：“写什么呢？如果没有什么有意义的内容，谁会想写呢？”

Malala: But the timing of Finding My Way, my new memoir, just felt right, and I knew there was something to share that is meaningful to people.

Malala: 但我的新回忆录《寻找我的路》的时机感觉刚刚好，我知道有些有意义的事情可以与大家分享。

Anna: Tell me more about how you knew the moment was right to begin writing. I love that you waited even though people were clamoring. How did you know the time was right?

Anna: 跟我说说你是如何知道开始写作的时机成熟的。我很喜欢你选择等待，尽管人们都在催促。你是怎么知道时机成熟的？

Malala: I was reflecting on how I had become a young woman, and I was known in the public eye as a girl who was shot by the Taliban at age 15.

Malala: 我当时在思考自己是如何成为一名年轻女性的，我在公众眼中一直是被塔利班在15岁时枪击的女孩。

Malala: And I was still meeting people who would see me as that girl, and I wanted to reintroduce myself beyond those titles, beyond those headlines.

Malala: 我仍然会遇到那些把我视为那个女孩的人，而我希望能超越这些头衔、超越这些头条，重新介绍我自己。

Malala: And I wanted to show that now I have experienced much more. I had this incredible time at college. I made incredible friends. I had my first love. I am married.

Malala: 我想展示我现在已经经历了很多。我在大学度过了一段不可思议的时光，结交了很棒的朋友，经历了我的初恋。我现在已经结婚了。

Malala: I have been going through other challenges and difficulties, from mental health to even coming to a decision about marriage itself.

Malala: 我还经历了其他的挑战和困难，从心理健康问题到甚至决定婚姻本身。

Malala: But this is all a part of me and activism is, of course, the mission of my life. But I'm more than that as well, and I wanted to share the personal story.

Malala: 但这一切都是我的一部分，而行动主义当然是我一生的使命。但我不仅仅是这些，我还想分享我的个人故事。

Malala: So these are the true reflections of me. This is, I think, very important.

Malala: 所以这些才是真实的我。我认为这非常重要。

Anna: And part of the reason I loved this book so much is, you know, you are so immediately recognizable, right? Your name, your face, your work.

Anna: 我之所以如此喜欢这本书，部分原因在于，你知道，你很容易就被认出来，对吧？你的名字、你的脸、你的工作。

Anna: And I loved how this book, it talks about big things certainly, but at the same time, there were all of these small, ordinary, everyday details about your life that I thought just added such dimension. I felt very grateful that you were sharing those things with us.

Anna: 我喜欢这本书，它当然谈论了宏大的事物，但同时，书中也有许多关于你生活的微小、普通、日常的细节，我认为这些细节增加了如此多的维度。你与我们分享这些，我感到非常感激。

Malala: I think we see this perfect image of everybody on social media or the way people usually tell their story is that they somehow knew how to figure it all out.

Malala: 我想我们看到社交媒体上每个人的完美形象，或者人们通常讲述自己故事的方式，都是他们不知怎么就知道如何解决一切。

Malala: But I had to be very honest that I was actually very shy at school. I was so scared that I would never be able to make any friends.

Malala: 但我必须非常诚实地说，我上学时其实非常害羞。我非常害怕自己永远都交不到朋友。

Malala: So in college, of course, I was there because I wanted to study at Oxford, but more than anything, I just wanted to make friends. I did not want to feel alone anymore.

Malala: 所以在大学里，我当然在那里，因为我想在牛津大学学习，但更重要的是，我只是想交朋友。我不想再感到孤独了。

大学生活：从全球偶像到普通学生

Anna: Before you went to college, when you were a teenager, it seemed to me reading this book that you had quite a serious life, right?

Anna: 在你上大学之前，你还是青少年的时候，读这本书时我觉得你过着相当严肃的生活，对吧？

Anna: You're flying to speak with world leaders and be on panels. You're doing public activism work.

Anna: 你飞来飞去和世界各国领导人会谈，参加小组讨论。你从事公共行动主义工作。

Anna: What was it like for you to be doing all of this stuff so young and so close to the attack? What was that like?

Anna: 那么年轻，又在遇袭后不久就做所有这些事情，对你来说是什么感觉？那是什么样的经历？

Malala: When I look back, I feel very different because now I see how I had somehow accepted the global recognition I was given.

Malala: 回头看时，我的感受非常不同，因为我现在明白，我当时或多或少地接受了所获得的全球认可。

Malala: And I felt like people were defining me when I was still in a coma. They were calling me brave, courageous, an activist, speaks truth to power, all of that.

Malala: 我感觉人们在我还在昏迷时就开始定义我了。他们称我勇敢、有勇气、是活动家、敢于对权力说真话，诸如此类。

Malala: And I was like, "Wow, I'm 15. I have to start my school again and figure out my life in a new country, in the UK."

Malala: 我当时想：“哇，我才15岁。我必须在英国这个新国家重新开始上学，重新规划我的生活。”

Malala: So much to process, yet this is now the mission of my life. Somehow I was forcing myself to accept that.

Malala: 有太多事情需要处理，然而这现在却成了我一生的使命。不知怎的，我强迫自己接受了这一点。

Malala: In school, I had literally no friends. I only made one best friend by the end of my school time.

Malala: 在学校里，我几乎没有朋友。直到高中毕业，我才交到一个最好的朋友。

Malala: I would still talk to my old friends from Pakistan, have those long calls with them, and the rest of my time I was either with the family at home or I would be traveling, doing speeches and conferences.

Malala: 我仍然会和我在巴基斯坦的老朋友们聊天，和她们打很长时间的电话，而我其余的时间要么在家和家人在一起，要么就是出差，做演讲和参加会议。

Malala: So, my exposure was very limited. I actually had not seen boys my age.

Malala: 所以，我的接触面非常有限。我其实从未见过同龄的男生。

Anna: Because you went to an all-girls school.

Anna: 因为你上的是女校。

Malala: I went to an all-girls school, and it was just older people.

Malala: 我上的是女校，周围都是年纪较大的人。

Anna: They weren't so amazing at age 15. I'll just share that as someone who was around. When I went to college, I wasn't missing anything.

Anna: 他们15岁的时候也没那么了不起。我只是作为过来人分享一下。我上大学时，并没有错过什么。

Malala: No, I was like, "Oh, I'm glad I saw it, and now I know."

Malala: 不，我当时想：“哦，我很高兴我看到了，现在我知道了。”

Anna: But they smell kind of weird, don't you think?

Anna: 但他们闻起来有点怪，你不觉得吗？

Malala: A lot of things. I think that could be a different podcast for us.

Malala: 很多方面。我想那可以成为我们另一个播客的主题了。

Malala: But it was just this feeling that I was not living the life a child should be living at age 15.

Malala: 但当时就是有这种感觉，我觉得自己没有过着一个15岁孩子应该过的生活。

Malala: So at college, much later, when I was not being watched by my parents, when I felt I could be myself and there are not these work people after me asking me to do this and that, I thought I had just more control over my life.

Malala: 所以在大学里，晚些时候，当我不再受父母管束，当我感觉可以做自己，没有那些工作上的事追着我做这做那的时候，我觉得我对自己的生活有了更多掌控权。

Malala: That's when I was like, "Okay, I'm going to just hang out, do these crazy things. Somebody wants me to climb the rooftop, I will. Late night, we're going to get to that. I will."

Malala: 那时候我就想：“好吧，我要出去玩，做些疯狂的事。如果有人叫我爬屋顶，我就去。深夜，我们也要去。我就去。”

Malala: I thought that college would be just this limited time of my life where I get to do anything I want, and then after that maybe I'll just go back to the old, serious life.

Malala: 我当时觉得大学只是我生命中有限的一段时间，我可以做任何我想做的事情，然后也许之后我就会回到以前那种严肃的生活。

Malala: But I was like, "This is that time, the three years where I'm studying at Oxford. Maybe I can be more adventurous."

Malala: 但我当时想：“这就是那个时候，我在牛津大学学习的这三年。也许我可以更冒险一些。”

Anna: Right. Before you go to Oxford, this moment in the book tickled me so much. You're trying to figure out what to pack, what to wear.

Anna: 对。在你去牛津大学之前，书中的这个时刻让我觉得很有趣。你当时在想该打包什么，穿什么。

Malala: Yes.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: Because your mom had chosen your outfits, right?

Anna: 因为你妈妈给你选好了衣服，对吗？

Malala: Yes.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: Do you remember? Why don't you share what you did in order to figure out what to pack? I loved this detail.

Anna: 你还记得吗？你为什么不分享一下你是怎么决定要带什么衣服的？我喜欢这个细节。

Malala: I know. I love my mom, but she's a very strict mom, and she was always deciding what I should be wearing. Same for university.

Malala: 我知道。我爱我的妈妈，但她是一个非常严格的妈妈，她总是决定我应该穿什么。大学时也是一样。

Malala: She said, "Let me pack everything for you." So, it was traditional dresses, shalwar kameez.

Malala: 她说：“让我帮你打包所有东西。”所以，都是传统的连衣裙，比如萨尔瓦卡米兹（shalwar kameez：南亚地区常见的宽松裤装和长上衣组合）。

Malala: And my mom always got me a size bigger than mine somehow, and it's just no sense of fashion. None of that for me.

Malala: 我妈妈总是给我买大一号的衣服，而且我完全没有时尚感。对我来说，这些都没有。

Anna: Much love, mom, though. We'll say.

Anna: 但我们还是要说，妈妈很爱你。

Malala: I know. I know. But for me at university, it was about me feeling like every other student. And I did not want to stand out.

Malala: 我知道。我知道。但对我来说，在大学里，我希望能像其他学生一样。我不想引人注目。

Malala: Because, of course, when I wear my shalwar kameez, the traditional Pakistani dress, I do stand out, and people have seen me in the public eye in those outfits.

Malala: 因为，当然，当我穿上我的萨尔瓦卡米兹（shalwar kameez：南亚地区常见的宽松裤装和长上衣组合）——那种传统的巴基斯坦服装时，我确实会很显眼，而且人们在公众场合也见过我穿那些衣服。

Malala: So, I wanted to just wear a jumper, just jeans, a sweater, trousers, a hoodie, pants.

Malala: 所以，我只想穿毛衣、牛仔裤、套头衫、长裤、连帽衫、休闲裤。

Anna: Again, I'm decoding sweater, trousers, a hoodie, pants.

Anna: 再说一次，我正在解读套头衫、长裤、连帽衫、休闲裤。

Malala: Oh my goodness.

Malala: 天哪。

Anna: Now, it's become kind of a bid, but the UK, you. No, it's totally fine. I'm translating for them so they'll understand.

Anna: 现在，这有点像竞标，但在英国，你。不，没关系。我正在为他们翻译，他们会明白的。

Malala: Very, very casual clothes that you just assimilate and you're like any other student. That's what I wanted. I was like, "I just want to be a normal student."

Malala: 非常非常休闲的衣服，让你融入其中，就像任何其他学生一样。这就是我想要的。我当时想：“我只想成为一个普通学生。”

Malala: So, my mom would put a Pakistani dress, I would remove it and put in a jumper, and somehow I found a way out through that, and I took these more casual clothes.

Malala: 所以，我妈妈会放一件巴基斯坦的连衣裙，我就会把它拿出来，换上一件套头衫，不知怎的，我找到了一个办法，带上了这些更休闲的衣服。

Malala: And my search on Google at the time was "Selena Gomez 2017 casual outfits."

Malala: 我当时在谷歌上搜索的是“赛琳娜·戈麦斯 2017 休闲穿搭”。

Anna: Was it like a lot of infinity scarves? Do you remember those things?

Anna: 是不是有很多那种无限围巾？你还记得那些东西吗？

Malala: Yes. And just like those long gemstone kind of necklaces.

Malala: 是的。还有那种长长的宝石项链。

Anna: We were so... It looked like chandeliers.

Anna: 我们当时。它看起来像枝形吊灯。

Malala: Yeah.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: Why were we dressing like that?

Anna: 我们当时为什么会那样穿？

Malala: I know. Too many scarves around their neck.

Malala: 我知道。脖子上围了太多围巾。

Anna: So many infinity scarves when it wasn't even cold, I will say.

Anna: 即使不冷也围了好多无限围巾，我得说。

Malala: No, no, but I want to forget all of those outfits that I wore once. I was like, "Okay, we should move on. We should move on."

Malala: 不，不，但我想忘掉我曾经穿过的所有那些衣服。我当时想：“好吧，我们应该往前看。我们应该往前看。”

Anna: So, you get to Oxford with a suitcase full of Selena Gomez casual.

Anna: 所以你带着一箱子赛琳娜·戈麦斯式的休闲装去了牛津。

Malala: Yes.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: Who were the people you were drawn to as friends?

Anna: 你被哪些人吸引，想和他们做朋友？

Malala: Wow. I was exploring the whole university. I was saying hello to almost everybody because there was no criteria for me. I wanted to meet as many people.

Malala: 哇。我当时在探索整个大学。我几乎向每个人打招呼，因为对我来说没有标准。我想认识尽可能多的人。

Malala: There were incredible people in my subject group. Every friend was unique in their own way, and we had a lot in common but also very different experiences in terms of our background, where we had come from.

Malala: 我的学科小组里有很棒的人。每个朋友都有自己独特的方式，我们有很多共同点，但在背景和出身方面也有非常不同的经历。

Malala: There was always something to talk about and always something to learn. When you were with friends, they made Oxford life more fun for me.

Malala: 总是有话题可聊，总是有东西可学。和朋友们在一起时，他们让我的牛津生活更有趣。

Malala: Because this was a time when I was not being asked about what was it like meeting that president and what do you do through Malala Fund (Malala Fund: 由马拉拉·优素福扎伊共同创立的国际非营利组织，致力于为女孩提供教育机会)?

Malala: 因为那段时间，没有人问我见到那位总统是什么感觉，或者你通过马拉拉基金会（Malala Fund: 由马拉拉·优素福扎伊共同创立的国际非营利组织，致力于为女孩提供教育机会）做了些什么？

Malala: It was about how was your essay last week? Wasn't that question so hard? Did you figure it out? This tutor is so annoying, or can we skip this lecture, please?

Malala: 而是问你上周的论文怎么样？那个问题是不是很难？你解决了吗？这个导师太烦人了，或者我们能跳过这节课吗？

Anna: Yeah. These were the conversations.

Anna: 是的。这些就是你们的对话。

Malala: And that's exactly what I wanted. I wanted to be a student. I wanted to be treated as a friend.

Malala: 而这正是我想要的。我想成为一名学生。我希望被当作朋友对待。

Malala: And all of these people, the incredible friends I made at Oxford, made me feel like I was their friend, and I felt so secure with them, not being judged.

Malala: 所有这些人，我在牛津结交的这些了不起的朋友，让我觉得我是他们的朋友，和他们在一起我感到非常安心，不会被评判。

Malala: And yeah, this was the most precious thing from college.

Malala: 是的，这是大学里最宝贵的事情。

Anna: You are making friends. You're doing all these, you know, totally normal college activities.

Anna: 你正在交朋友。你正在做所有这些，你知道的，完全正常的大学活动。

Malala: Yes.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: And yet you do have a security detail that follows you on campus. And I wasn't exactly clear in that. Are they quite literally everywhere with you? Just a few steps behind? Or how was that?

Anna: 然而，你确实有一队安保人员在校园里跟着你。我对此不太清楚。他们是不是真的无处不在？就跟在你后面几步远？或者情况是怎样的？

Malala: Yeah, they're following you. They are non-uniform, and they want to keep it as normal for you as they can.

Malala: 是的，他们跟着我。他们不穿制服，希望能尽可能地让你的生活保持正常。

Anna: Sure. But there is a point where your friends are like, "We see these strangers behind you every day. Are you okay? Are they following you?"

Anna: 当然。但总有那么一个时刻，你的朋友会说：“我们每天都看到这些陌生人跟在你后面。你没事吧？他们是不是在跟着你？”

Malala: And I'm like, "No, no, they're just taking care of me. Don't worry."

Malala: 我当时说：“不，不，他们只是在照顾我。别担心。”

Anna: They would come to parties and stuff.

Anna: 他们也会去派对什么的。

Malala: Yeah.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: Okay, that's fine.

Anna: 好的，那没关系。

Malala: Yeah.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: I mean, some older guys at the party. It's fine.

Anna: 我的意思是，派对上有一些年纪较大的男人。没关系。

Malala: Quite older.

Malala: 相当年长。

Anna: Yeah. Quite older. They could blend in. You also got up to some mischief in college in the dead of night. Tell me about that.

Anna: 是的。相当年长。他们可以融入进去。你在大学里也曾在深夜做过一些恶作剧。跟我说说那件事。

Malala: Yeah. So in college, I found out about rooftop climbing, and this is a secret thing that these students do where they're like, "We want to get in trouble."

Malala: 是的。所以大学时，我发现了爬屋顶这件事，这是学生们做的一种秘密活动，他们就像是说：“我们想惹点麻烦。”

Malala: So in our college at Oxford, there is the bell tower, and it's not easy to get up there. So you have to go up to the top.

Malala: 所以在我们牛津的学院里，有一个钟楼，上去并不容易。你必须爬到顶部。

Anna: Yeah, describe it for me in case I want to ever go to Oxford and climb this.

Anna: 是的，跟我描述一下，万一我以后想去牛津爬这个。

Malala: I think you should not do that. I think it's not allowed anymore, but if you know.

Malala: 我觉得你不应该那样做。我想现在已经不允许了，但如果你知道的话。

Malala: So you go up to the top floor of the main Talbert Hall, and you get into this small room there, and there's a small window.

Malala: 所以你走到主塔伯特大厅的顶层，进入那里的一间小房间，那里有一扇小窗户。

Malala: And you open that window, you sneak out through the window, and there is this narrow roof path, but it's very narrow.

Malala: 你打开那扇窗户，从窗户偷偷溜出去，外面有一条狭窄的屋顶小路，但非常窄。

Anna: Getting serious, but keep going. Yes.

Anna: 变得严肃起来了，但请继续。是的。

Malala: You could put one foot at a time basically.

Malala: 你基本上只能一次放一只脚。

Anna: Like show me with your hands how narrow is it.

Anna: 用你的手给我比划一下，它有多窄。

Malala: It's very narrow. It's basically like the edge of the roof.

Malala: 它非常窄。基本上就像屋顶的边缘。

Anna: You're clinging on basically.

Anna: 你基本上是紧紧抓住。

Malala: And there's another part where you have to jump. Now this next part of the roof, it's very scary.

Malala: 还有另一部分，你必须跳过去。现在屋顶的下一部分，非常吓人。

Malala: So I had that mysterious friend who took me there, and they were helping me, and so they jumped before and then I jumped after.

Malala: 所以我有一个神秘的朋友带我去了那里，他们帮我，他们先跳，然后我跟着跳。

Anna: It's night, right?

Anna: 是晚上吧？

Malala: It's midnight. It's very late at night.

Malala: 是午夜。夜很深了。

Anna: Are there lights around? Describe it. Put me in that moment with you the first time. So it's dark outside. You're looking out right about to take that jump. What's going through your mind?

Anna: 周围有灯光吗？描述一下。让我第一次和你一起置身于那个时刻。外面很黑。你正要跳下去，你在想什么？

Malala: It's very dark in the college. It's quiet, and I felt like it was just me who was in control of what was happening, and we were about to climb the rooftop.

Malala: 学院里很黑。很安静，我感觉只有我自己在掌控发生的一切，我们正要爬上屋顶。

Malala: It was a very risky journey because you're walking on this very narrow path of the roof, and one misstep, you will fall from the fourth floor of the building. I don't think you will survive.

Malala: 那是一段非常危险的旅程，因为你走在屋顶那条非常狭窄的小路上，一步走错，你就会从大楼的四楼摔下去。我觉得你活不下来。

Malala: So then you go up to the bell tower, and you sit in there, and you could see the bell above you, and it's just so beautiful.

Malala: 然后你爬上钟楼，坐在里面，能看到头顶的钟，那景象真是太美了。

Malala: You look down, you could see the whole college. You're wondering who's doing what in their room. Some have their lights on, and some might be sleeping right now.

Malala: 你往下看，能看到整个学院。你会好奇谁在房间里做什么。有些房间亮着灯，有些可能正在睡觉。

Malala: You look at the library, who's still studying at midnight, and you look down, and you're like, "Hm, are these the college security? I hope they're not looking for you."

Malala: 你看看图书馆，谁还在午夜学习，然后你往下看，心想：“嗯，这些是学院保安吗？我希望他们不是在找我。”

Malala: And I had just told my security that night that I was done with everything. "You guys can go to bed."

Malala: 我那天晚上刚告诉我的安保人员，我所有事情都做完了。“你们可以去睡觉了。”

Malala: So I was just looking at their room as well, feeling alone and hoping that they do not suddenly wake up and look for me.

Malala: 所以我也看着他们的房间，感到孤独，并希望他们不要突然醒来找我。

Malala: It was a moment where I felt so close to nature, so close to myself.

Malala: 那一刻，我感觉离大自然如此之近，离我自己如此之近。

Malala: I could hear my heart, and it was just a magical, beautiful moment, and there I was sitting with a stranger, doing something that I should not have been doing.

Malala: 我能听到自己的心跳，那是一个神奇而美丽的时刻，我就坐在那里，和一个陌生人一起做着我不应该做的事情。

Malala: But I was okay to get in trouble. I wanted to try things without feeling like anybody was watching me, anybody was judging me or commenting about me.

Malala: 但我乐意惹麻烦。我想尝试一些事情，而不觉得有人在监视我，有人在评判我或评论我。

Malala: It sounds too dramatic when I talk about it, but it was truly a moment when I felt that I am living the true college experience.

Malala: 我谈论起来可能听起来太戏剧化了，但这确实是我感觉自己正在体验真正的大学生活的一个时刻。

Anna: It is to me a really profound moment of reckoning and introspection for you, right?

Anna: 对我来说，那确实是一个深刻的审视和内省的时刻，对吗？

Anna: And you spoke about how you'd accepted this role other people had put you into, and certainly that you'd also stepped into on your own with your work and your fund.

Anna: 你谈到你接受了别人强加给你的这个角色，当然，你也在自己的工作和基金会中主动承担了这个角色。

Anna: But this is a thing, and I say this with utmost care, it's a stupid thing to do because it's so far up. But it's like you're doing it because you want to, right?

Anna: 但这件事，我非常谨慎地说，这样做很蠢，因为它太高了。但这就像是你因为想做才做的，对吗？

Malala: You're doing it because you're like, "Let's do it."

Malala: 你之所以这样做，是因为你觉得：“我们来做吧。”

Malala: Yeah. And that was my first time, but not my last time.

Malala: 是的。那是我的第一次，但不是最后一次。

Anna: And why would you keep doing it?

Anna: 你为什么会一直做下去呢？

Malala: It's really hard to explain. Climbing to the rooftop made me connect to a part of me that I thought had gone missing.

Malala: 这真的很难解释。爬上屋顶让我与我曾以为已经失落的一部分自我重新连接。

Malala: And I was a very adventurous person growing up in Pakistan. I loved to try new things. I was adventurous.

Malala: 我在巴基斯坦长大时是个非常爱冒险的人。我喜欢尝试新事物，我充满冒险精神。

Malala: And when my life took a sharp turn and I started a new life in a new country, I just thought I could never connect back to that old self, or I would just never know what I would have been like if none of these things had happened, if I hadn't been attacked, if I hadn't started this activist life in a new place.

Malala: 而当我的生活急转直下，在一个新的国家开始新的生活时，我以为我再也无法与过去的那个自我连接，或者我永远不会知道如果这些事情都没有发生，如果我没有被袭击，如果我没有在一个新的地方开始这种活动家的生活，我会变成什么样子。

Malala: That when I was in college and when I was climbing rooftops, I felt like I was connecting with that old part of me.

Malala: 在大学里，当我爬上屋顶的时候，我觉得我正在与我过去的那个自我连接。

Malala: With time, I have become that person that I try new things. I don't care if I do it wrong or if I get judged for it or what people think about it.

Malala: 随着时间的推移，我变成了那个敢于尝试新事物的人。我不在乎是否做错，是否因此被评判，或者人们怎么看。

Malala: With time, you just realize you have to live your life. And you can't just dictate yourself or do this self-sabotage on yourself where you feel like you are expected to live your life a certain way.

Malala: 随着时间的推移，你就会意识到你必须过自己的生活。你不能仅仅约束自己，或者进行这种自我破坏，让你觉得你必须以某种方式生活。

Malala: And if you do it otherwise, then somehow you are not satisfying the expectations. So college was a time when I was slowly testing it.

Malala: 如果你以其他方式行事，那么不知何故你就会觉得没有满足期望。所以大学是我慢慢尝试的时期。

Anna: I mean, what you're saying is really important. I think it wasn't so much a discovery of a part of yourself. It was rediscovery.

Anna: 我的意思是，你说的真的很重要。我认为这与其说是发现自己的一部分，不如说是重新发现。

Malala: Yes. Yes.

Malala: 是的。是的。

Anna: Now this is a cheesy question, but bear with me. I wonder, and you can feel free to say no, but when you were up there, did you picture younger you, the one who had that adventurous spark?

Anna: 现在这是一个有点俗气的问题，但请听我说完。我想知道，你可以随意说不，但当你身处高处时，你是否想象过年轻时的自己，那个充满冒险火花的自己？

Malala: Yes, I could see the younger Malala. I am not a person who thinks too much about the past because my life has changed so much that if I put myself in that place where I'm thinking what it could have been like, you can never be satisfied with imagining your life differently.

Malala: 是的，我能看到更年轻的马拉拉。我不是一个会过多思考过去的人，因为我的生活变化太大，如果我把自己置于那个思考“本可能是什么样子”的境地，你永远不会满足于想象不同的生活。

Malala: So in college, rather than thinking too much about what it would have been like if I were here as just that normal student and with no recognition and people knew nothing about me and they were maybe not watching me.

Malala: 所以在大学里，我没有过多地去想，如果我只是一个普通的学生，没有名气，人们对我一无所知，他们也许没有关注我，那会是怎样的生活。

Malala: And it felt like that, and I'm not saying that people are actually watching you and people are actually commenting about you. Sometimes they do. That's sometimes how the social media world appears.

Malala: 感觉就是那样，我并不是说人们真的在监视你，真的在评论你。有时他们确实会。社交媒体世界有时就是这样。

Anna: You have a level of scrutiny on you.

Anna: 你受到了某种程度的审视。

Malala: It's also how you feel. It's how because it affects you so much. I usually say it doesn't affect me or it shouldn't. I agree with that.

Malala: 这也关乎你的感受。因为它对你的影响太大了。我通常会说它不影响我，或者说它不应该影响我。我同意这一点。

Malala: I don't let it affect my work, but in the end, the truth is, yes, it does, even if you are trying to fight it back or try to not let it distract you, but it is somehow influencing you.

Malala: 我不会让它影响我的工作，但最终，事实是，它的确会影响你，即使你试图反抗它，或试图不让它分散你的注意力，但它总会以某种方式影响你。

Anna: You mean this sort of people watching you, this feeling? Yes.

Anna: 你的意思是这种人们在关注你的感觉？是的。

Malala: Yes. So in college, I felt like the eyes were not on me.

Malala: 是的。所以大学时，我感觉那些目光没有在我身上。

Anna: Wow.

Anna: 哇。

Malala: And I was in my own secret world, and I thought, I don't know how I'm supposed to be, but I'm going to experience these things, these emotions, and that will tell me something about myself.

Malala: 我活在自己的秘密世界里，我想，我不知道自己应该成为什么样的人，但我会去体验这些事物，这些情感，那会告诉我一些关于我自己的事情。

Malala: I'm going to jump. I'm going to jump. I'm going to climb. I'm going to swim. No, I can't swim.

Malala: 我要跳。我要跳。我要爬。我要游泳。不，我不会游泳。

Anna: No swimming.

Anna: 不能游泳。

Anna: I appreciate that your book doesn't paint too rosy a picture of college, right? You were having this freedom, and you were going to parties, and you had these friends, and you were pulling all-nighters, but you also dealt with some quite difficult stuff.

Anna: 我很欣赏你的书没有把大学生活描绘得过于美好，对吧？你拥有这种自由，参加派对，结交朋友，熬夜通宵，但你也处理了一些相当困难的事情。

创伤的回响：意想不到的恐慌发作

Anna: Can you describe, you do this so vividly in the book. Can you describe the first time you had what you later found out was a panic attack?

Anna: 你能描述一下吗？你在书中描绘得如此生动。你能描述一下你第一次经历后来才发现是恐慌发作的时刻吗？

Malala: Yes. So this panic attack was a life-changing moment because I was attacked at age 15. I healed from a bullet, and I thought the recovery is done.

Malala: 是的。所以这次恐慌发作（panic attack: 突然发作的强烈恐惧或不适感，常伴有心悸、呼吸困难、头晕等身体症状）是一个改变人生的时刻，因为我15岁时遭到袭击。我从枪伤中痊愈，以为康复已经完成。

Malala: But many years later when I had the first panic attack or the trauma or the flashbacks of what had happened, it made me feel like everything was coming back as if it had never gone.

Malala: 但多年后，当我第一次经历恐慌发作、创伤或对过去事件的回闪时，我感觉一切都回来了，仿佛从未消失过。

Malala: I felt like I was reliving those moments. So it happened one night where initially it felt like a normal night because I was working on my essay, and I had an essay crisis. I was struggling.

Malala: 我感觉自己正在重温那些时刻。事情发生在一个晚上，起初感觉像一个普通的夜晚，因为我正在写论文，遇到了论文危机。我当时很挣扎。

Malala: So this friend called me to the college gardens, and she said, "Let's hang out. Some friends are here."

Malala: 于是这位朋友叫我到学院花园，她说：“我们出去玩吧。一些朋友在这里。”

Malala: I was like, "Maybe she might just give me her notes." So let's go and see her. I go there. We are chatting. And I see this thing for the first time, and it's called bong (bong: 一种常用于吸食大麻等物质的过滤装置).

Malala: 我当时想：“也许她会把她的笔记给我。”所以就去见她了。我到那里，我们正在聊天。我第一次看到了这个东西，叫做水烟筒（bong: 一种常用于吸食大麻等物质的过滤装置）。

Anna: It's a bong, right?

Anna: 是水烟筒，对吧？

Malala: It's a bong, and it's basically weed, but it's a different way of inhaling it.

Malala: 是水烟筒，基本上是大麻（weed: 俗称，指大麻植物及其产品），但它是另一种吸食方式。

Anna: Totally.

Anna: 完全正确。

Malala: It is tricky, and I had no idea how to take it and what it was and how quickly it affects you.

Malala: 它很复杂，我完全不知道该怎么用，也不知道那是什么，以及它会多快地影响你。

Malala: But my friends seemed fine, and on the first attempt, I coughed, and then on the second attempt, I felt I inhaled it, and it went all in.

Malala: 但我的朋友们看起来都很好，第一次尝试时我咳嗽了，第二次尝试时我感觉吸进去了，而且完全吸进去了。

Anna: Yeah.

Anna: 是的。

Malala: And I don't know where time went, but that was the turning point. It felt like a sharp turn where immediately my body froze.

Malala: 我不知道时间去了哪里，但那是一个转折点。感觉像是一个急转弯，我的身体立刻僵住了。

Malala: I could not understand time or the surroundings anymore. And I thought I was reliving the attack, that I could see the gunman, that I was experiencing that near-death experience where I felt like maybe I am dead, maybe this is afterlife.

Malala: 我再也无法理解时间或周围的环境。我以为自己正在重温那次袭击，我能看到枪手，我正在经历那种濒死体验，感觉自己可能已经死了，这可能是来生。

Malala: Am I alive or not? I just lost sense of reality.

Malala: 我是活着还是死了？我完全失去了现实感。

Malala: I had many panic attacks after that. My body would be sweating. I would be shaking. My heart would be throbbing. I could not sleep.

Malala: 那之后我多次恐慌发作。我的身体会出汗，我会颤抖，心跳剧烈。我无法入睡。

Malala: As soon as I would try to close my eyes, I felt like it was a nightmare again and I would die. It was so scary.

Malala: 只要我一闭上眼睛，就感觉又是噩梦，我会死去。太可怕了。

Malala: I thought nobody would understand it. I could not even talk to anybody about this because how do you explain to somebody that I'm experiencing all of this?

Malala: 我以为没有人会理解。我甚至无法向任何人谈论这件事，因为你如何向别人解释我正在经历这一切？

Malala: And an attack happened many years ago, and I was completely normal yesterday. I never thought this would happen, and it was so unexpected.

Malala: 袭击发生在多年前，而我昨天还完全正常。我从没想过会发生这种事，这太出乎意料了。

Anna: Yeah.

Anna: 是的。

Malala: I'm so glad my friends were there for me. They helped me in this time. They could not explain it to me. They were not my therapists, but they did small things like sharing meals with me or doing a sleepover.

Malala: 我很高兴我的朋友们都在我身边。他们在那段时间帮助了我。他们无法向我解释，他们也不是我的治疗师，但他们做了些小事，比如和我一起吃饭，或者一起过夜。

Malala: Their sleepover was everything. That was the first time I could actually fall asleep.

Malala: 他们的陪伴是我的全部。那是我第一次真正能够入睡。

Malala: They have no idea, but I'll always remember that. And then in the end, it was another friend of mine who told me that I should see a therapist.

Malala: 他们不知道，但我永远会记住。最后，是我的另一个朋友告诉我应该去看心理医生。

Malala: I was so skeptical.

Malala: 我当时非常怀疑。

Anna: Had you seen a therapist up to that point?

Anna: 到那时为止，你见过心理医生吗？

Malala: No. The first time I had seen a therapist briefly was at the hospital in Birmingham when I was recovering from the bullet injury.

Malala: 没有。我第一次短暂地见到心理医生是在伯明翰的医院，当时我正在从枪伤中恢复。

Anna: Immediately after.

Anna: 就在那之后。

Malala: Yes. At the time, I had to go through so many other surgeries for the physical body recovery that I thought, "What is this person asking me? How do I feel? Come on. Look at me. I'm recovering. What has feelings got to do with any of that?"

Malala: 是的。当时，我不得不经历许多其他手术来恢复身体，我当时想：“这个人问我什么呢？我感觉如何？拜托。看看我。我正在康复。感受和这些有什么关系呢？”

Malala: I felt work kept me busy and distracted. And I just had no idea that something like this bong experience could trigger and bring back the trauma and PTSD (PTSD: Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder: 一种在经历或目睹创伤性事件后可能发生的精神健康状况).

Malala: 我觉得工作让我忙碌和分心。我根本不知道像这种水烟筒的经历会触发并带回创伤和创伤后应激障碍（PTSD: Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder: 一种在经历或目睹创伤性事件后可能发生的精神健康状况）。

Malala: All of these things I had heard of, but I just never understood what that actually means when you experience it.

Malala: 所有这些事情我都听说过，但我从未真正理解当你亲身经历时，那到底意味着什么。

Malala: So when I had my first therapy session, it was a crazy experience because I was telling everything to the therapist, and I was hoping that she would give me the medication or whatever cure they have, right?

Malala: 所以当我第一次进行心理治疗时，那是一次疯狂的经历，因为我把所有事情都告诉了治疗师，我希望她能给我药物或任何他们有的治疗方法，对吧？

Malala: And soon I realized that that's not how it works. You have to accept and embrace it. That now this is a part of you. You cannot banish it magically.

Malala: 很快我就意识到，事情不是那样运作的。你必须接受并拥抱它。现在这已是你的一部分。你无法神奇地将其消除。

Malala: With time it can get smaller and smaller, and it will affect you less and less. But you have to be willing to accept and live with it.

Malala: 随着时间的推移，它会变得越来越小，对你的影响也会越来越少。但你必须愿意接受并与它共存。

Malala: I no longer see it as just four sessions or 10 sessions. I think the problem will be fixed by then.

Malala: 我不再认为它只是四次或十次治疗就能解决的问题。我以为问题到那时就能解决了。

Anna: Exactly. I mean, I really appreciate you sharing it. It was terrifying even reading about it. I mean, it really was.

Anna: 没错。我的意思是，我真的很感谢你分享它。即使只是读到它，也令人感到恐惧。我的意思是，确实如此。

Anna: You know, it strikes me just as you're talking, we spoke about this roof experiences as this moment of discovering that your past was still with you.

Anna: 你知道，就在你说话的时候，我突然想到，我们谈论的爬屋顶经历，就像是你发现过去依然存在的一个时刻。

Malala: Yeah. And I'm realizing that this panic attack was also the shadow side of that, right?

Malala: 是的。我意识到这次恐慌发作也是那一面的阴影，对吧？

Malala: With the past, with the more full embrace of the past is not just the adventures and that spirit, it's also the attack.

Malala: 随着过去，随着更全面地拥抱过去，不仅仅是冒险和那种精神，也包括那次袭击。

Malala: Yes. And I think that's the part that frustrated me the most because when you are labeled as a brave girl who has overcome an attack and is not afraid of the Taliban, and suddenly this moment where you're witnessing that moment of fear again, and you feel the gunmen are right in front of you again or you feel you have lost your life again.

Malala: 是的。我想那是我最感到沮丧的部分，因为当你被贴上“勇敢女孩”的标签，一个克服了袭击、不惧怕塔利班的女孩，却突然再次经历恐惧的时刻，你感觉枪手又在你面前，或者你感觉自己又一次失去了生命。

Malala: It's scary, but it's also embarrassing. I was feeling embarrassed a bit that somehow I had failed in meeting that label of being brave and courageous.

Malala: 这很可怕，但也很尴尬。我当时有点感到尴尬，觉得我 somehow 没有达到那个勇敢和有勇气的标签。

Malala: I was in South Africa for this campaign that we're doing for Afghan women. I was giving the Nelson Mandela lecture, and we were bringing attention to what's happening in Afghanistan under the Taliban since they took power four years ago.

Malala: 我当时在南非参加我们为阿富汗妇女开展的这项运动。我正在发表纳尔逊·曼德拉演讲，我们正在引起人们关注塔利班四年前掌权以来阿富汗发生的事情。

Malala: It is a gender apartheid (Gender Apartheid: 指基于性别的系统性歧视和压迫，剥夺特定性别群体的权利和自由), it is systemic oppression. Anyway, that was a visit there. I gave a speech, and there I also had a panic attack.

Malala: 这是一种性别隔离（Gender Apartheid: 指基于性别的系统性歧视和压迫，剥夺特定性别群体的权利和自由），是系统性的压迫。总之，那次访问我在那里发表了演讲，然后也经历了一次恐慌发作。

Anna: Oh my gosh. On stage or off?

Anna: 哦，天哪。是在台上还是台下？

Malala: No, it was after I had done all the events, the press, the speeches. There was nothing triggering, and just all of a sudden when I went to bed in the middle of the night, I just felt like I could not breathe anymore.

Malala: 不，那是在我完成了所有活动、新闻发布、演讲之后。没有任何触发因素，只是突然间，当我在半夜上床睡觉时，我感觉自己无法呼吸了。

Malala: And my husband was with me. He helped me through the whole night, but I was shaking. I was shivering recently. A few years ago.

Malala: 我丈夫当时和我在一起。他整晚都在帮助我，但我一直在颤抖。我最近还在发抖。几年前。

Anna: Yeah, just a few years ago. Wow.

Anna: 是的，就在几年前。哇。

Malala: But just to say that even in moments when I go on the stage and give a speech to stand up for women, and I say that we are not afraid of the extremists, and then I go back to my room, and that night I'm shaking, I'm shivering because I'm having a panic attack, and I don't understand.

Malala: 但我想说的是，即使在我上台为女性发声演讲，说我们不惧怕极端分子的时候，然后回到我的房间，那天晚上我却在颤抖，因为我正在经历恐慌发作，我无法理解。

Malala: Because inside me I know I can continue this fight, and I will keep on doing it, but physically and mentally my body is responding in a way that I have no control over.

Malala: 因为我内心知道我可以继续这场斗争，我也会一直做下去，但我的身体在生理和心理上都以我无法控制的方式做出反应。

Malala: But that doesn't stop me from doing what I want to do. I will advocate for the rights of Afghan women and girls. We will stand up to all extremists, including the Taliban.

Malala: 但这并不能阻止我做我想做的事。我将为阿富汗妇女和女孩的权利奔走呼吁。我们将对抗所有极端分子，包括塔利班。

Malala: We will have a better future for women and girls when they can just choose their own future, whatever they want. Just having more freedom and liberation.

Malala: 我们将为妇女和女孩创造一个更好的未来，她们可以自由选择自己的未来，无论她们想要什么。只是拥有更多的自由和解放。

Malala: But it's not an easy journey, and we have to be honest about how it can overwhelm us, how it can affect our own mental health. And so I'm sharing just a part of that in my book.

Malala: 但这不是一段轻松的旅程，我们必须诚实面对它如何让我们不堪重负，如何影响我们的心理健康。所以我在书中只是分享了其中的一部分。

Anna: It's powerful, and I appreciate you sharing it with me here. And I think of this word you used, embarrassing.

Anna: 这很有力量，我很感谢你在这里与我分享。我想到你用过的这个词，尴尬。

Malala: Yeah.

Malala: 是的。

Anna: Can you tell me more about that word because I think I understand, but it's a harsh word to turn on yourself, and I wonder about that. Why did it feel embarrassing to have a panic attack?

Anna: 你能多告诉我一些关于这个词的含义吗？因为我想我理解，但它是一个对自己来说很严厉的词，我对此感到好奇。为什么恐慌发作会让你觉得尴尬？

Malala: It felt embarrassing because I thought I had failed in meeting the expectation of being brave and strong.

Malala: 感到尴尬是因为我觉得我没有达到勇敢和坚强的期望。

Malala: When people tell you that you stood up to the Taliban, "How did you do that? How could you be so brave?" I did not even have an answer to that.

Malala: 当人们告诉你，你对抗了塔利班，“你是怎么做到的？你怎么能那么勇敢？”我甚至没有答案。

Malala: I would just simply say, "Education is my right. Why should anyone take it away from me?"

Malala: 我只会简单地说：“受教育是我的权利。为什么任何人要把它从我身边夺走？”

Malala: And now many years later when I had these panic attacks and I was suddenly scared, it's not that the Taliban were standing right in front of me, but I felt it.

Malala: 而现在，多年后，当我经历这些恐慌发作，突然感到害怕时，并不是塔利班真的站在我面前，但我感觉到了。

Anna: Yeah.

Anna: 是的。

Malala: It's something I wish I can just make disappear. But that is to say that it is still brave when you are embarrassed, when you are scared, when you are afraid, but you still get up and do what you believe in. I think that is true bravery.

Malala: 这是我希望能够让它消失的东西。但我想说的是，当你感到尴尬、害怕、恐惧时，你仍然站起来做你相信的事情，这才是真正的勇敢。我认为这才是真正的勇敢。

爱情与婚姻：颠覆传统观念

Anna: I want to get us into this zone of talking about romance and dating and love because it's a beautiful part of your book as well.

Anna: 我想让我们进入谈论浪漫、约会和爱情的领域，因为这也是你书中一个美好的部分。

Anna: You mentioned that you just weren't around guys so much before you went to college, and then you were around them. Where was your confidence in terms of dating boys, romance?

Anna: 你提到在大学之前，你很少接触男生，但后来你接触了他们。在与男生约会、谈恋爱方面，你的自信心在哪里？

Malala: I was more of a coach at the beginning. When it came to love life conversations, I was giving advice to my friends, like if a guy is not replying to your text for 3 days, it's not that that's happening to me, but what do you think it means?

Malala: 一开始我更像一个教练。谈到爱情生活时，我会给朋友们建议，比如如果一个男生三天不回你的短信，不是我遇到了这种情况，但你觉得这意味着什么？

Malala: He doesn't want to talk, and I don't think he deserves you.

Malala: 他不想说话，而且我觉得他配不上你。

Anna: I hear that.

Anna: 我听到了。

Malala: Yeah. And my friends were so shocked that I knew so much about guys and dating. And I told them, "I have never dated a guy. I don't even know what that is."

Malala: 是的。我的朋友们都很震惊，我竟然对男生和约会了解这么多。我告诉他们：“我从来没有和男生约会过。我甚至不知道那是什么。”

Malala: But I would sometimes joke with them that I'm more of a coach than a player, and the coaches know more than the players.

Malala: 但我有时会和他们开玩笑说，我更像一个教练而不是球员，而且教练比球员更懂。

Anna: You're observing.

Anna: 你在观察。

Malala: Observing.

Malala: 观察。

Anna: You had taken yourself off the field to continue that metaphor.

Anna: 沿用这个比喻，你把自己从场上撤下来了。

Anna: And really that actually is the language I'd use, taken yourself out of the game. Can you describe why? Why was dating not so much on your radar?

Anna: 实际上，我就是会用这种说法，你把自己抽离了这场游戏。你能描述一下原因吗？为什么约会不太在你的考虑范围内？

Malala: There were two reasons for that. One was my personal decision, and the second one was cultural.

Malala: 这有两个原因。一个是我个人的决定，第二个是文化原因。

Anna: Yeah.

Anna: 是的。

Malala: When I was attacked by the Taliban, the bullet caused injuries including my hearing loss and also my facial symmetry. So I had become very insecure.

Malala: 当我被塔利班袭击时，子弹造成了包括听力损失和面部对称性受损在内的伤害。所以我变得非常没有安全感。

Malala: I thought my smile was never the same, and the facial symmetry wasn't there anymore. I received so many surgeries to work on repairing the facial nerve. Even my last surgery was to do that.

Malala: 我觉得我的笑容再也不像以前了，面部也不再对称。我接受了多次手术来修复面部神经。甚至我的最后一次手术也是为了这个。

Malala: And I thought to grapple with it, the best way is to just say, "Never date a guy," or if I'm honest, I just thought nobody would like me.

Malala: 我想，要应对这个问题，最好的办法就是说：“永远不要和男生约会，”或者老实说，我只是觉得没有人会喜欢我。

Malala: But that's just a whole different way of thinking.

Malala: 但那完全是另一种思维方式。

Anna: Yeah.

Anna: 是的。

Malala: And then on the other hand, it was also the cultural pressure because in our culture in Pakistan, girls are not allowed to date.

Malala: 另一方面，也有文化压力，因为在巴基斯坦的文化中，女孩是不允许约会的。

Anna: Sure.

Anna: 当然。

Malala: It's different in the cities, but in a lot of the villages in most of Pakistan, girls are even punished for it if they're found dating or texting a guy.

Malala: 城市里情况不同，但在巴基斯坦大部分的村庄里，如果女孩被发现约会或给男生发短信，甚至会受到惩罚。

Malala: And there are crazy things like honor killings. So I thought, "Okay, that's supposed to be a bad thing, and why put my family in trouble? Why make my mom and dad angry?"

Malala: 而且还有一些疯狂的事情，比如荣誉谋杀（honor killing: 家族成员为维护家族所谓“荣誉”而杀害被认为有不道德行为的成员）。所以我想：“好吧，那应该是一件坏事，为什么要给我的家人惹麻烦？为什么要让我的爸爸妈妈生气？”

Malala: Even though I knew we were now in a different country and slightly different culture, but that is still there in the back of your mind.

Malala: 尽管我知道我们现在在一个不同的国家，文化也略有不同，但这种观念仍然存在于我的脑海深处。

Malala: So in college, I thought, "These two things, I should just stay away from boys."

Malala: 所以在大学里，我想：“这两点，我应该离男生远一点。”

Anna: I mean, you're mentioning the insecurity, and you share a bit about that in the book, and there is one quote that really struck me.

Anna: 我的意思是，你提到了不安全感，你在书中也分享了一些，其中有一句话真的触动了我。

Anna: You were talking about grappling with self-image, and you said, "My face and body were now meant for service, not romance. You don't need to be attractive to be an activist." I told myself.

Anna: 你当时在谈论如何应对自我形象，你说：“我的脸和身体现在是为了服务，而不是为了浪漫。你不需要有吸引力才能成为一名活动家。”我对自己说。

Anna: I was struck by that. Unpack that quote for me. What did that mean? You didn't have to be attractive to be an activist. So, it wasn't on your mind.

Anna: 我被那句话打动了。给我解读一下那句话。那意味着什么？你不需要有吸引力才能成为一名活动家。所以，你没有考虑过这一点。

Malala: I thought that activism was now the mission of my life, and I did not have to think about looking pretty for that.

Malala: 我认为行动主义现在是我一生的使命，我不需要为此考虑自己是否漂亮。

Malala: On the other hand, I thought that to have love in your life, you needed to be looking all perfect and needed the facial symmetry.

Malala: 另一方面，我认为要在生活中拥有爱情，你需要看起来完美无瑕，需要有面部对称。

Malala: And so, I thought, "Okay, I can't have all of that, but at least I can do my activism."

Malala: 所以，我想：“好吧，我不能拥有所有这些，但至少我可以做我的行动主义。”

Anna: Did you think you'd ever be in a relationship? Was that something that...

Anna: 你曾想过你会谈恋爱吗？那是你…

Malala: No.

Malala: 不。

Anna: No. Really?

Anna: 不。真的吗？

Malala: I never thought that. No.

Malala: 我从没那样想过。没有。

Anna: And how did that make you feel when you were to contemplate a life without a romantic relationship?

Anna: 当你考虑一种没有浪漫关系的 M 生活时，那让你感觉如何？

Malala: My life changed completely when I was in love with a person. I could not fix my thinking.

Malala: 当我爱上一个人时，我的生活完全改变了。我无法改变我的想法。

Malala: Before that, I was a strong advocate against marriages. I had told all of my college friends that "Do not get married," or "At least I'm not getting married. These boys are just a waste of time."

Malala: 在那之前，我曾是婚姻的强烈反对者。我告诉所有大学朋友：“不要结婚，”或者“至少我不会结婚。这些男生只是浪费时间。”

Malala: I was so against the institution of marriage itself. I was questioning it because growing up I had seen how girls were forced into marriage or they were married off when they were still children, and that is still a reality for many girls.

Malala: 我非常反对婚姻制度本身。我质疑它，因为我从小看到女孩们如何被迫结婚，或者在她们还是孩子的时候就被嫁掉，这对于许多女孩来说仍然是现实。

Malala: So I thought, "Why would I even consider it? I'm an advocate for girls' rights. This is the last thing I'll think about."

Malala: 所以我想：“我为什么要考虑它呢？我是女孩权利的倡导者。这是我最后才会考虑的事情。”

Anna: Yeah.

Anna: 是的。

Malala: And here I was in love with a guy, and I knew that culturally for me to be with this guy, I need to be married to him because in our culture, I cannot just live with a guy. My parents will never allow that.

Malala: 结果我爱上了一个男生，我知道在我的文化中，要和他在一起，我必须嫁给他，因为在我们的文化中，我不能只是和一个男生同居。我的父母绝不会允许。

Malala: It's hard to explain the cultural part because it becomes a controversy, and there's a lot of backlash if you do not follow the traditions, and the tradition is that you have to marry, and it's usually your parents agreeing.

Malala: 很难解释文化部分，因为它会引起争议，如果你不遵循传统，就会有很多强烈反对，而传统就是你必须结婚，而且通常是你的父母同意。

Malala: You cannot technically be dating or be in love.

Malala: 严格来说，你不能约会或恋爱。

Malala: I was happy that my parents were okay with me seeing the guy, but my mom put so many restrictions. She told me, and this is before COVID, that you have to be 6 feet apart. So, she kind of started that trend.

Malala: 我很高兴我的父母同意我见那个男生，但我妈妈设置了许多限制。她告诉我，这在疫情之前，说我们必须保持6英尺的距离。所以，她算是开创了那个潮流。

Anna: It sounds like she started that before we had those germs.

Anna: 听起来她在我们有那些细菌之前就开始了那个。

Malala: Looking at a future.

Malala: 展望未来。

Anna: Yeah.

Anna: 是的。

Anna: Without a romantic relationship, did it make you feel, I don't know.

Anna: 没有浪漫关系，这让你感觉如何，我不知道。

Malala: It made life easier for me.

Malala: 这让我的生活更轻松了。

Anna: Huh. That's okay.

Anna: 嗯。那好吧。

Malala: I thought life would be so easy if there were no relationships, no love life to think about, and no marriage and all of that and kids and family stuff.

Malala: 我当时想，如果没有人际关系，没有爱情生活可考虑，没有婚姻，没有孩子，没有家庭琐事，生活会变得多么轻松。

Malala: I said, "Hey, stay away from all of that. Work, work, and work."

Malala: 我说：“嘿，远离所有那些。工作，工作，再工作。”

Malala: And I will be honest that becoming an activist at a young age and not knowing so much about what the lives of activists from history have been really like.

Malala: 我会坦诚地说，我年轻时成为一名活动家，对历史上活动家的真实生活了解不多。

Malala: So in my head, I thought Martin Luther King Jr. or Mother Teresa or Dalai Lama Nelson Mandela all had these lives which were all about work even though they had wives and kids and all of that.

Malala: 所以在我脑海里，我以为马丁·路德·金、特蕾莎修女、达赖喇嘛或纳尔逊·曼德拉他们的生活都只关乎工作，尽管他们也有妻子和孩子等等。

Malala: There's this perception that you have that life all has to be about work. It can never be about you, about your love, and these are all sacrifices and compromises you have to make.

Malala: 你会有一种观念，认为生活必须完全围绕工作。它不能关乎你自己，关乎你的爱情，而这些都是你必须做出的牺牲和妥协。

Malala: But when I fell in love, now let's bring this man on stage.

Malala: 但当我坠入爱河时，现在让我们把这位男士请上台。

Anna: Tell me about the guy you fell in love with.

Anna: 跟我说说你爱上的那个男生。

Malala: So I met Asser at university. He was visiting a friend who was studying there. And the moment I saw him, I knew that he was my type.

Malala: 我是在大学里遇到阿瑟的。他当时正在拜访一个在那里读书的朋友。我见到他的那一刻，就知道他是我喜欢的类型。

Malala: He was tall, handsome, with a trimmed beard and wide shoulders. And I thought, "Oh my god."

Malala: 他高大帅气，留着修剪整齐的胡子，肩膀宽阔。我心想：“天哪。”

Malala: I had pictured this guy in my imagination, and somehow I see him in reality. There is this 3D print of him.

Malala: 我曾在我的想象中描绘过这个男生，不知怎的，我在现实中看到了他。他就像一个3D打印出来的人。

Anna: You are making me jealous, girl.

Anna: 你让我嫉妒了，女孩。

Malala: Yeah. With a cute smile. And he was laughing the whole time. And he was funny. And he was cracking jokes and laughing at my jokes, and I was like, "Wow, he is the one."

Malala: 是的。带着可爱的笑容。他一直在笑。他很有趣。他讲笑话，也笑我的笑话，我当时想：“哇，他就是那个人。”

Anna: Well, that's the dream, isn't it?

Anna: 嗯，那不就是梦想吗？

Malala: Yeah. But if you ask him, the story that he has starts at a different point, and I'm like, "Ugh, let's not even talk about it."

Malala: 是的。但如果你问他，他的故事是从不同的点开始的，我当时就想：“哎，我们甚至别提那件事了。”

Anna: Talking about it. Let's just say you had wide shoulders and you were tall.

Anna: 谈谈吧。我们就说你肩膀宽阔，身材高大。

Malala: I was like, "Can you just simply say, 'Yeah, I fell in love with you the moment I saw you'?" He's like, "No, I have to be truthful." I was like, "No, not all the time."

Malala: 我当时想：“你能不能简单地说‘是的，我一见到你就爱上你了’？”他却说：“不，我必须诚实。”我当时说：“不，不总是这样。”

Malala: But then he reminds me, he says, "You have to remember that you were Malala to me."

Malala: 但后来他提醒我，他说：“你必须记住，对我来说，你就是马拉拉。”

Malala: And sometimes he says this joke that my right shoulder was telling me that there's one person in the world that you don't want to offend or break the heart of, it's Malala.

Malala: 有时候他会开玩笑说，我的右肩告诉我，世界上有一个人你不想冒犯或伤她的心，那就是马拉拉。

Malala: And then my left shoulder was telling me that if you break Malala's heart, you are going to be her enemy number one, and you do not want that life.

Malala: 然后我的左肩告诉我，如果你伤了马拉拉的心，你就会成为她的头号敌人，而你不会想要那样的生活。

Malala: So basically both angels and devils were telling him, "Do not screw this up."

Malala: 所以基本上，天使和魔鬼都在告诉他：“别搞砸了。”

Malala: He was like, "I was just so scared." He said, "Do you think somebody meets Malala and immediately would say, 'Yeah, I want her to be my girlfriend,' or 'I want to marry her'?"

Malala: 他当时说：“我当时太害怕了。”他说：“你觉得有人见到马拉拉会立刻说：‘是的，我想让她做我女朋友’，或者‘我想娶她’吗？”

Malala: He said, "No." He's like, "Of course, you are so fun, and I was so happy that we were becoming friends, but I could not imagine it." And I was like, "Okay, fine, fine, you can get away with it."

Malala: 他说：“不。”他就像是说：“当然，你很有趣，我们成为朋友我很高兴，但我无法想象。”我当时就说：“好吧，好吧，你可以蒙混过关。”

Malala: One story I remember which is really funny. When we were still getting to know each other, I took him to see this movie, which was Toy Story 4.

Malala: 我记得有一个故事很有趣。当我们还在互相了解的时候，我带他去看了一部电影，是《玩具总动员4》。

Anna: Okay. Yeah.

Anna: 好的。是的。

Malala: And I was a bit flirty and all of that. And I was like, "Why is this guy so nervous and tight and why can't he just relax?"

Malala: 我当时有点调情什么的。我就想：“这家伙为什么这么紧张，这么拘谨，他为什么就不能放松一下呢？”

Malala: And I asked him, and he's like, "You know, you have security, and they're standing right behind me."

Malala: 我问他，他说：“你知道，你有安保人员，他们就站在我后面。”

Malala: He's like, "Maybe those two massive guys, and you want me to be relaxed and all of that." So later on I understood. I was like, "Oh yeah, poor thing. I never thought about it from his perspective."

Malala: 他就像是说：“那两个大块头就在那儿，你还想让我放松什么的。”所以后来我明白了。我当时想：“哦，是的，可怜的孩子。我从来没有从他的角度考虑过。”

Anna: So you're like, "Loosen up." He's like, "You know, just watching a movie. Enjoy. Have fun. Be yourself."

Anna: 所以你就像是说：“放松点。”他就像是说：“你知道，只是看个电影。享受吧。玩得开心。做你自己。”

Anna: I didn't even know they had Toy Story 4.

Anna: 我甚至不知道他们有《玩具总动员4》。

Anna: How did he make you feel? As you hung out with him more and more, as you talked, as you got to know him as a person, not just a hottie. How did he make you feel?

Anna: 他让你感觉如何？当你和他相处得越来越多，当你交谈，当你作为一个人而不是一个帅哥去了解他时，他让你感觉如何？

Malala: Whenever I was with him, I felt that I was loved, and he made me feel like the present me.

Malala: 每当我和他在一起时，我感到被爱，他让我感觉自己就是现在的我。

Malala: It's like when you meet people, they have this fixed image of you, and they feel like they know who you are.

Malala: 就像你遇到一些人，他们对你有一个固定的印象，他们觉得他们知道你是谁。

Anna: Well, I will say you more so than someone else, of course. Absolutely.

Anna: 嗯，当然，我要说你比其他人更是如此。绝对是。

Malala: But for him, it was just this, with him, I felt like I could grow as a person.

Malala: 但对他来说，和他在一起，我感觉自己作为一个个体可以成长。

Anna: Huh.

Anna: 嗯。

Malala: Yeah. I like what you're saying, as opposed to a fixed idea of who you were, this vaunted, brave, active.

Malala: 是的。我喜欢你说的，相对于你是一个被吹捧、勇敢、积极的固定形象。

Anna: It was like you felt things felt like they could change, like they could mold, like they could grow, like they were flexible almost.

Anna: 就像你觉得事情是可以改变的，可以塑造的，可以成长的，几乎是灵活的。

Malala: Yes. And when I think about a life partner, this is the person you want with whom you can grow, right?

Malala: 是的。当我考虑人生伴侣时，这就是你想要的那种可以一起成长的人，对吧？

Malala: You will never be the same person as you are in this moment. He will also not be the same person as he is in that moment.

Malala: 你永远不会是此刻的自己。他也永远不会是那一刻的自己。

Malala: And when you start your life together, you can grow together. I immediately felt that with Asser that he is so adventurous.

Malala: 当你们开始共同生活时，你们可以一起成长。我立刻就觉得阿瑟是这样一个人，他非常喜欢冒险。

Malala: He likes trying new things. He's funny. Life just looks more fun with him. And I was imagining a life with him, and I thought, "Wow, it just looks so good."

Malala: 他喜欢尝试新事物。他很有趣。和他在一起，生活看起来更有趣。我当时想象着和他一起的生活，觉得“哇，看起来真不错。”

Malala: So I was very happy that I was technically dating him and that I was seeing him.

Malala: 所以我很高兴我实际上正在和他约会，并且我正在和他见面。

Malala: But at the same time, I was reminding myself that no, I'm supposed to be an activist, and I can't get married, and this is all a distraction.

Malala: 但与此同时，我提醒自己，不，我应该是一名活动家，我不能结婚，这都是一种干扰。

Anna: Right. And you were so staunchly opposed. You're right. You were so opposed to marriage as an institution.

Anna: 对。而且你当时是如此坚决地反对。你说得对。你当时是如此反对婚姻作为一个制度。

Malala: Yes. Because of what it represented, the patriarchy (Patriarchy: 一种社会系统，其中男性在家庭、政治和经济领域中掌握主要权力，并享有特权). You didn't want to be controlled.

Malala: 是的。因为它所代表的，父权制（Patriarchy: 一种社会系统，其中男性在家庭、政治和经济领域中掌握主要权力，并享有特权）。你不想被控制。

Anna: Yeah. How did you reckon with those things? What a bummer to really like this guy and be like, "This could be serious, but also I'm staunchly opposed to marriage."

Anna: 是的。你是如何处理这些事情的？真的很喜欢这个男生，却又想：“这可能会很认真，但我又坚决反对婚姻。”这真让人扫兴。

Malala: I would be honest that I liked Asser, and everything was going well. I was also scared if Asser would be the same person as he is now.

Malala: 我会坦诚地说，我喜欢阿瑟，一切都很顺利。我也担心阿瑟是否会像现在一样。

Malala: And I had heard so many stories of girls who find out that the husband is not the guy who they thought would be after they get married.

Malala: 我听过很多女孩的故事，她们结婚后才发现丈夫并不是她们以为的那个人。

Malala: After they get married, and things change, or then they have these expectations from each other, like the husband is expecting the wife to do certain things or do chores or change her career path and all of that.

Malala: 结婚后，事情会改变，或者他们彼此之间会有这些期望，比如丈夫期望妻子做某些事情，或者做家务，或者改变她的职业道路等等。

Malala: And I knew this was never going to happen. And I knew that I knew about my rights, and I am an activist for girls everywhere. I can fight for myself.

Malala: 我知道这绝不会发生。我也知道我了解自己的权利，我是各地女孩的倡导者。我能为自己而战。

Malala: But it just felt like I could not, I just did not want it to be a situation where now suddenly I was getting married, and this guy was like, "I have to fix another guy, and I have to fix another problem while I'm advocating for so many other things."

Malala: 但我只是觉得我不能，我只是不想让情况变成，现在我突然结婚了，而这个男人就像是说：“我必须解决另一个男人，我必须解决另一个问题，同时我还在为这么多其他事情奔走呼吁。”

Malala: I did not want it to be another journey of activism for me. I was like, "If marriage makes life easier and happier, then I should consider it."

Malala: 我不希望它成为我另一段行动主义的旅程。我当时想：“如果婚姻能让生活更轻松、更快乐，那么我应该考虑它。”

Anna: Yeah.

Anna: 是的。

Malala: In the end, we spent some time together in Lake Placid in the US, and this was the first time when it was just the two of us, and we had the best time together.

Malala: 最后，我们在美国普莱西德湖共度了一段时光，这是我们第一次只有两个人在一起，我们度过了最美好的时光。

Malala: And I had prepared a whole list of questions because I thought I'll ask him everything and figure out who he truly is.

Malala: 我准备了一整串问题，因为我想我会问他所有事情，弄清楚他到底是谁。

Malala: And I was like, "I just want to know everything about this guy. What is inside his mind? What he's showing, what I see right now is all good. It's like 10 out of 10."

Malala: 我当时想：“我只想知道关于这个男人的一切。他脑子里在想什么？他表现出来的，我现在看到的，一切都很好。简直是满分。”

Malala: But is there something mysterious in his mind that I need to know?

Malala: 但他脑子里有没有什么神秘的东西是我需要知道的？

Anna: You know, it's like.

Anna: 你知道，这就像。

Malala: I know, seriously, I should change my job.

Malala: 我知道，说真的，我应该换个工作。

Anna: Come and work for.

Anna: 来为…工作。

Malala: And I realized that he was this person the whole time that I saw him. It's like you keep looking, you keep peeling it off, and it's like a layer after a layer, but it's still the same thing.

Malala: 我意识到，他一直都是我所看到的那个样子。就像你不断地观察，不断地剥开一层又一层，但它始终是同样的东西。

Anna: Yeah. Was there a moment where you realized that he was who he said he was? Was there, I don't know. You look at him at breakfast and the lights hitting him, and you're like, "That's it, that's him." Was there a moment?

Anna: 是的。有没有那么一个时刻，你意识到他就是他所说的那个人？有没有，我不知道。你在早餐时看着他，阳光照在他身上，你就像是说：“就是他了，就是他。”有没有那么一个时刻？

Malala: I still feel that when he is kind to somebody, when he cares about his family members and friends, he shows up. He checks on people. He looks after me.

Malala: 我仍然觉得，当他对别人友善时，当他关心家人和朋友时，他会出现。他会关心别人。他会照顾我。

Malala: He's just so nice to me. I can't tell you. He can listen to me rambling at midnight when he's so tired and exhausted.

Malala: 他对我真是太好了。我无法形容。他能在午夜我喋喋不休的时候倾听，尽管他已经很累很疲惫了。

Anna: The yap does turn on at midnight. Huh.

Anna: 午夜时分，话匣子确实打开了，嗯。

Malala: And he cares about what I eat, and if I'm busy with my work, he makes sure that I have some fun time.

Malala: 而且他关心我吃什么，如果我忙于工作，他会确保我有一些娱乐时间。

Malala: So he would arrange sports in the middle of it to say, "You need to relax, you need to take some time off." So my life is still the same, but I feel happier that he's with me now.

Malala: 所以他会在中间安排一些运动，说：“你需要放松，你需要休息一下。”所以我的生活仍然一样，但我感到更快乐，因为他现在和我在一起。

Anna: In this moment in Lake Placid, which is fun that it was there. It's cool that, yeah. You realize that you're ready to marry.

Anna: 在普莱西德湖的这个时刻，很有趣的是它发生在那里。这很酷，是的。你意识到你准备好结婚了。

Anna: What was it about that trip that changed your mind? Was it your mind changed about him or your mind changed about the institution of marriage, or both, or neither? What shifted?

Anna: 那次旅行有什么让你改变了主意？是你对他的看法改变了，还是你对婚姻制度的看法改变了，或者两者都是，或者都不是？是什么发生了转变？

Malala: Oh, definitely not about the institution of marriage at all. That is easy to answer. We have to question marriage.

Malala: 哦，绝对不是关于婚姻制度的改变。这很容易回答。我们必须质疑婚姻。

Malala: We have to make this an open conversation because it is still affecting the lives of tens of millions of girls every year.

Malala: 我们必须让这成为一个公开的对话，因为它每年仍在影响着数千万女孩的生活。

Malala: And even in places where women have more equal rights and even in developed countries, marriage still means more compromises for women.

Malala: 即使在女性拥有更平等权利的地方，甚至在发达国家，婚姻对女性来说仍然意味着更多的妥协。

Malala: So I think that's a whole separate conversation, and I don't have all the answers, but I think it's important for us to doubt it, to question it.

Malala: 所以我认为那完全是另一个话题，我没有所有的答案，但我认为我们怀疑它，质疑它很重要。

Malala: In Lake Placid, I was sure about getting married to Asser was because I knew he was the right guy.

Malala: 在普莱西德湖，我确定要嫁给阿瑟是因为我知道他是对的人。

Malala: He seemed to be this kind, sweet, and the best guy I had ever seen. I had the best time with him, and I loved him for sure.

Malala: 他看起来善良、甜美，是我见过最好的男人。我跟他在一起度过了最美好的时光，我当然爱他。

Malala: But I started loving myself as well. And that's the difference he made in my life that I felt that I should love myself, and I should be okay accepting that he loves me too.

Malala: 但我也开始爱自己了。这就是他给我生活带来的改变，我感觉到我应该爱自己，而且我应该接受他也爱我。

Malala: And I realized I don't have to ask him every question about, "What do you think about four marriages in Islam (Islam: 世界主要宗教之一，信奉独一真主阿拉)?" or "What do you think about a woman earning more than the man?"

Malala: 我意识到我不需要问他每一个问题，比如“你对伊斯兰教（Islam: 世界主要宗教之一，信奉独一真主阿拉）中的四次婚姻有什么看法？”或者“你对女性比男性挣得多有什么看法？”

Malala: And he was like, "Yeah, if she earns more, that's fine. I'll be a heavier man."

Malala: 他当时说：“是的，如果她挣得多，那没关系。我会成为一个更胖的男人。”

Malala: He's like, "Oh, you just get it right every time."

Malala: 他就像是说：“哦，你每次都说对了。”

Anna: It is so interesting. It's like this list of you tried to itemize all of the things that could go wrong, right?

Anna: 这太有趣了。就像是你试图把所有可能出错的事情都列出来，对吧？

Anna: And it's very beautiful to me that at the end of this trip, you realized you just didn't have to do that.

Anna: 对我来说，非常美好的是，在这次旅行结束时，你意识到你根本不需要那样做。

Malala: Yes. He was quite surprised. He was like, "So, where are the questions? When are you going to ask ripped paper?"

Malala: 是的。他相当惊讶。他当时说：“那么，问题呢？你什么时候会问那些被撕掉的纸条呢？”

Malala: I was like, "You know, I know." Because you knew the answer was yes.

Malala: 我当时说：“你知道的，我知道。”因为你知道答案是肯定的。

Anna: Was what it's not even about the answers to those questions. The answer is he loves you, right?

Anna: 答案是什么，甚至不是那些问题的答案。答案是他爱你，对吗？

Malala: And I love myself.

Malala: 我也爱我自己。

Anna: Yes. You know, we talked about how your feelings about marriage as an institution haven't changed. You're still committed to advocating for women's independence and right to choose, decide whether they want to get married.

Anna: 是的。你知道，我们谈到你对婚姻作为一个制度的看法没有改变。你仍然致力于倡导女性的独立和选择权，决定她们是否要结婚。

Anna: And I guess I wondered, now you are a wife, right? What does that mean to you? How are you able to, what does that mean to you?

Anna: 我想知道，你现在是妻子了，对吧？这对你意味着什么？你如何能够，这对你意味着什么？

Malala: You know, those words still sound quite heavy. Wife and husband.

Malala: 你知道，那些词听起来仍然很沉重。妻子和丈夫。

Anna: Do you use different words?

Anna: 你们用不同的词吗？

Malala: Yeah. Bestie.

Malala: 是的。闺蜜。

Anna: You use bestie.

Anna: 你用“闺蜜”。

Malala: Oh, I love that. Yeah.

Malala: 哦，我喜欢这个。是的。

Malala: We don't call each other husband and wife. It's when people ask us or when people bring it up, that's when we're like, "Oh, so we are husband and wife." Okay.

Malala: 我们不称呼彼此为丈夫和妻子。是当人们问起我们，或者当人们提起这件事时，我们才会说：“哦，所以我们是夫妻。”好吧。

Anna: Yeah. Does that word not feel like it fits so much?

Anna: 是的。那个词是不是觉得不太合适？

Malala: I have a very stereotypical idea of what a wife means, and I hated the word. Genuinely hated the word growing up.

Malala: 我对“妻子”这个词有一个非常刻板的印象，而且我讨厌这个词。从小就真心讨厌这个词。

Malala: I thought, "You want to be a wife? Come on." And husband, I was like, "Just because you grow up with it, you cannot suddenly take it away from yourself."

Malala: 我当时想：“你想当妻子？拜托。”至于丈夫，我当时想：“仅仅因为你从小就习惯了它，你不能突然把它从自己身上剥离。”

Malala: And I just thought that was not a cool thing to be a wife.

Malala: 我就是觉得当妻子不是一件很酷的事情。

Anna: Yeah. Do you feel married? I guess that's really the question I want to ask. Do you feel married?

Anna: 是的。你觉得你结婚了吗？我想这才是我想问的问题。你觉得你结婚了吗？

Malala: It's about redefining what marriage is.

Malala: 关键在于重新定义婚姻是什么。

Malala: I know that a lot of people will be already embracing it in this new way where it means equal partnership between two people where they respect each other and they love each other and they make lives easier for each other. They make lives more fun for each other.

Malala: 我知道很多人已经以这种新的方式接受了婚姻，它意味着两个人之间的平等伙伴关系，他们互相尊重，互相爱护，让彼此的生活更轻松，也让彼此的生活更有趣。

Malala: But where I come from and what I have experienced, seeing things like child marriages and how women's futures change completely with marriage.

Malala: 但我来自的地方以及我所经历的，看到像童婚这样的事情，以及女性的未来如何因婚姻而彻底改变。

Malala: I cannot fully take it away from me that I still have that traditional idea of it, and that just causes that trigger for me.

Malala: 我无法完全摆脱我对婚姻的传统观念，这总会触动我。

Malala: And I sometimes think that, "Am I giving up to the old systems?" But I know it is different.

Malala: 我有时会想：“我是在向旧制度妥协吗？”但我知道这是不同的。

Malala: It is different when you are in a new country. It's different when you are redefining it. It's different when the partner actually has good values and has a common understanding of respects, and respects you.

Malala: 当你身处一个新国家时，情况就不同了。当你重新定义它时，情况也不同了。当你的伴侣真正拥有良好的价值观，并且对尊重有共同的理解，并且尊重你时，情况也不同了。

Malala: And he's like, "Yeah, marriage, whatever. I just want to be with you." That's the most important thing for him. So, that changes everything.

Malala: 他就像是说：“是的，婚姻，随便啦。我只是想和你在一起。”对他来说，那才是最重要的。所以，这改变了一切。

Malala: I'm like, "Yeah, sure. Let's call it marriage. Let's call it whatever we want to call it." It's about us sharing this journey of life ahead together.

Malala: 我当时想：“是啊，当然。我们就叫它婚姻吧。我们想叫它什么就叫它什么。”重要的是我们共同分享未来的这段人生旅程。

《寻找我的路》：一个持续的旅程

Anna: I want to turn back to your book. I'm struck that the title Finding My Way is an active title. It's not I found my way. No.

Anna: 我想回到你的书。我惊讶于书名《寻找我的路》是一个进行时态的标题。它不是《我找到了我的路》。不。

Malala: It's finding, right? You're in the process of.

Malala: 是“寻找”，对吗？你正处于这个过程中。

Anna: And I guess I wonder, what do you feel like you're still figuring out about yourself?

Anna: 我想知道，你觉得你还在摸索自己哪些方面？

Malala: Actually, I wanted a title like Finding My Way because I do not feel comfortable with books that feel like they have cracked the code and figured it all out.

Malala: 其实，我想要一个像《寻找我的路》这样的标题，因为我不喜欢那些感觉已经破解了所有密码、弄清了所有事情的书。

Malala: That if you read this book, you have no worries in life anymore. That's just not the reality.

Malala: 好像你读了这本书，人生就再也没有烦恼了。那根本不是现实。

Malala: Finding My Way is a true reflection of what the journey is actually like where things are happening for the first time. You may not have even planned them to be a part of your life.

Malala: 《寻找我的路》真实反映了这段旅程的本质，很多事情都是第一次发生。你甚至可能从未计划让它们成为你生活的一部分。

Malala: You are having these experiences in college, like bong, or you are climbing rooftops. That was never part of my plan.

Malala: 你在大学里经历了这些，比如水烟筒，或者你爬屋顶。这些从来都不在我的计划之内。

Malala: Getting ghosted by my crush, that was never part of my plan. Nearly failing my exams. That wasn't part of my plan, right?

Malala: 被我喜欢的人“幽灵化”——这从不在我的计划中。差点考试不及格——这也不在我的计划中，对吧？

Malala: These things happen. You meet the love of your life at a time when you were like, "Wait a second. I'm still in university. I wish I was not thinking about marriage and all of these things right now."

Malala: 这些事情都会发生。你在一个你当时想：“等等。我还在上大学。我希望我现在不要考虑婚姻和所有这些事情。”的时候，遇到了你生命中的挚爱。

Malala: Or you are recovering from the bullet of the Taliban and having your last surgery, and the Taliban take control of Afghanistan, and you have to think about evacuating the people whom you are supporting and at the same time thinking about the future of women and girls and what does that mean for you.

Malala: 或者你正在从塔利班的子弹中恢复，进行最后一次手术，而塔利班却控制了阿富汗，你必须考虑撤离你支持的人，同时还要思考妇女和女孩的未来，以及这对你意味着什么。

Malala: All of these things are about finding your way. You do not have the answer immediately, but it is embracing those moments and accepting the emotions and the feelings you're going through.

Malala: 所有这些都是关于“寻找你的路”。你不会立刻得到答案，但它意味着拥抱那些时刻，接受你正在经历的情绪和感受。

Malala: You cannot make them disappear. Asking for help when you need to. Talking to your friends and family, your colleagues, and knowing that together you will be able to make a way through it. You will find your way through it.

Malala: 你无法让它们消失。当你需要时寻求帮助。和你的朋友、家人、同事交谈，并知道你们会一起找到出路。你会找到你的出路。

Anna: You're 28 right now.

Anna: 你现在28岁了。

Malala: Yes.

Malala: 是的。

给15岁自己的寄语

Anna: What would you say to 15-year-old Malala?

Anna: 你会对15岁的马拉拉说什么？

Malala: Oh, I might give her my book. "Girl, read this book. There is so much ahead of you."

Malala: 哦，我可能会把我的书给她。“女孩，读读这本书。你未来还有很多很多。”

Malala: "There's so much ahead of you. Do not get distracted by what people around you are telling you, who you are supposed to be, what media outlet wants to speak to you, and how you need to go and give a speech at this conference and that event."

Malala: “你前方还有那么多。不要被周围人告诉你的、你应该是谁、哪个媒体想采访你、以及你需要去哪个会议和哪个活动发表讲话所分心。”

Malala: "Follow your heart. Make friends. Be cheeky sometimes. It's okay if you don't know all the answers. It's okay if you get scared. That's all fine. You will find your way through it."

Malala: “跟随你的心。交朋友。有时调皮一点。不知道所有答案没关系。感到害怕也没关系。都没事。你会找到自己的出路的。”

Anna: Malala, thank you so much. What a pleasure to have this conversation.

Anna: 马拉拉，非常感谢你。很高兴能进行这次对话。

Malala: Thank you. So nice speaking to you as well.

Malala: 谢谢。也很高兴与你交谈。