[Host]: All right, everybody. Welcome back to the number one podcast in the world. It's your favorite podcast. It's your podcasters' favorite podcast. It's the podcast that everybody likes to rip off for 50 episodes and then they quit. But the All-In podcast is not quitting. We're doubling down with the original quartet. Everybody's here for a big big week, lots of debates, and we got to start with Anthropic.

Anthropic released a mythos level model with some interesting guardrails and uh seems as though Daario is back to blogging. Okay, the model's called Fable 5. No idea why they're calling it that or released on Tuesday and it tops every benchmark nearly every benchmark. The tokens, however, cost twice as much as Opus 4.8, but it should use less tokens overall because it's theoretically that much better.

Unclear if this is going to alleviate some of the hand ringing around the cost of tokens, but you remember in April Anthropic famously did not release Mythos because publicly uh it had some strong hacking capabilities. So they gave it to some folks and we had um the CEO of Nesh of Palo Alto Networks who said, "Hey, Mythos was the real deal." and that they used it to seal up some vulnerabilities inside their shop. Obviously, this new model is sensitive uh to topics like boweapons, hacking, all that stuff are blocked in it. But they got a big developer backlash and then I'll get your feedback after I explain this.

While using Fable, Anthropic stores all the prompt data you enter for at least 30 days. And so that's a bit of a privacy issue. And if Fable 5 detects you're doing frontier AI research, in other words, using their model to make a better model, competitive model, they were downgrading you, but they weren't telling you. And this was buried deep in a 319 page document. So many kuruffles, freakouts going on on X over this, but they've since walked it back a bit, quote unquote, in Wired. We're changing Fable 5 safeguards for Frontier LLM development to make them more visible.

I'm going to stop there. Chimath, what's your take on anthropic and these extraordinary models? They keep dropping and how they're handling the release of them. Are they being thoughtful? Are they being dramatic and drama queens? A little bit of both. Where do you stand on it? You know, after getting Nesh's feedback and seeing the latest model come out, have you played with it? What's going on at 8090 and the software factory in terms of benchmarking it as well?

[Chamath]: It's a really incredible model and so kudos to these guys for continuing to push the boundaries of the closed frontier lab models. They're firing on all cylinders. I think that it creates a pretty obvious risk now and I think that obvious risk is twofold. One is Anthropic has essentially shown their hand which is that they will increasingly take in prompts, evaluate the prompts and decide what to do with them before they generate output to you.

And I think if you were a person, you should generally now think there's a risk of censorship. If you're a company, I think it's almost a non-starter. And the reason is because you could accidentally trip one of these things without even knowing it. A downstream scientist using the cloud APIs could trip it. A business executive inside your corporation could trip it. A person doing scientific molecular research could trip it. And all of a sudden, you'll get cut off from a very important source of business differentiation for yourself.

So I think if you take both of those two things together, we're at this very unique moment in time where I think companies need to start underwriting this next phase of AI, which is how do I have control? Who am I allowing to learn off of all of this information? Do I want to have single point of failure risk with respect to AI? And I think the answer is that you need broad diversity and a governance approach that's better managed.

[Host]: One thing I'll say about anthropic is they tell the truth.

[Chamath]: Yes.

[Host]: It's just that the truth sucks when you actually take it and you eat it and you're like it's in your tummy and you're like no this is not good. I don't like this. And so there's the censorship risk on the one hand and then there's just the governance business risk for enterprises on the other. Both are not good.

Freeberg running your own company now. Uh, and I'll let you back clean up here. Saxs, obviously you'll have a lot to say, but Freeberg, running your company, do you worry about getting rugpulled by one of these companies, investing your time into one of these platforms, having them then constrain your use of it and or take what you're doing at Ohio, put it into their model and make it available to other people. What concerns do you have as a business owner at the forefront of your field using these tools?

[Freeberg]: It's a great question. the the terms of service is pretty clear that they can't take what you're doing and put it into their model that they won't

[Host]: do you believe them when you read that I

[Freeberg]: I'm not sure to a minute myself. I because I I think you do need to be rigorous.

[Speaker A]: You go ahead first. Yeah. The the only thing I can think of is her ground game is more sophisticated because they've been at it longer than Spencer Pratt and he didn't have a ground game that took this in since he's a non-traditional firsttime candidate. That's the only thing I can think of.

[Speaker B]: Sophisticated a coded word for he wasn't bribing Skidro homeless judge.

[Speaker A]: No, he just has it. He doesn't have an election machine to collect ballots and collecting ballots is legal. That's the That's the question.

[Speaker B]: She had a better cheating operation. Obviously,

[Speaker A]: we're saying the same thing. We're not actually saying anything different.

[Speaker C]: The Twitter commentary was that people were waiting because there's so many people that are so against Spencer Pratt, but they wanted to be sure that they voted for the right candidate, whether it's Ramen or Bass. And so the people that held their ballots the longest saw the polling data that Bass was going to win. That's why they all voted for Ramen last minute was to try and promote her to make sure

[Speaker A]: has been shipped because of the you could have two Democrats at the top of the ticket.

[Speaker C]: That's right. And they didn't want Spencer Pratt to have a shot at the general. And that by the way, you know, I mean, if you saw my interview with Spencer Pratt, he said Ramen registered one hour before the deadline and she's friends with Bass and that the whole point was to keep him from actually making it onto the general ballot. So that some of the coordination that people were making in their minds was like, we got to make sure we vote for the two Democrats and then they'll figure out, hey, is it wrong? Let's just box him out.

[Speaker B]: Yeah.

[Speaker A]: Got it. Which is like why they all waited till the last minute to vote for to vote for

[Speaker B]: how do you coordinate something like that? That that's always the question I have with these like

[Speaker C]: these people are all brilliant geniuses. It's it's hundreds of thousands of brilliant geniuses row that out.

[Speaker B]: Yeah, there's a chat group. I mean, it's not that complicated.

[Speaker A]: Alan Harvesters did it. what Freeberg said just happened. It's just that the ballot harvesters did it, not the actual voters, obviously.

[Speaker B]: And ballot harvesting is legal, but it's sketchy and maybe they And if there are ballot harvesters, I think that Trump and the DOJ can catch these people. How the is it legal that someone can go out and collect other people's ballots and fill them out and send them in? It's the craziest to me.

[Speaker C]: No evidence of fraud right now. Statistics don't look good. Donald J. Trump, you control the Department of Justice. Go investigate it.

[Speaker B]: Okay. I love you guys, but I'm hungry. I got to go. This has been an amazing episode of the Allin Podcast. Bye-bye.

[Speaker C]: Love you boys. Byebye. Let your winners ride.

[Speaker A]: We open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Besties are gone. That is my dog taking a notice in your driveway. Oh man, my habitasher will meet me up. We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all just useless. It's like this like sexual tension that we just need to release somehow. Wet your wet feet. We need to get Mercy's going all in. I'm going all in.