Claire: All right, we're gonna start this episode by actually inviting Claudebot to the podcast via Telegram. Let's see how it goes. Hey Paulie, can you please join my Riverside FM podcast? All right, I sent the voice message and it's not getting it. This is the most stressful thing I've ever done. Hello. Oh, it's doing it. [laughter] Finally listened. Okay, it is opening Riverside on Chrome. This is horrifying in every way. I'm going to allow it permissions for my my microphone and my camera, which also makes me extremely nervous.

嘉宾: Hey Claire, the Riverside link keeps taking me to an upload page that says uploading 100% instead of a guest join interface.

Claire: This is my entire experience using this product. Just will it work? Will it won't? Okay, it is opening Chrome for the fifth time. This is very scary. I see myself right now. I don't know if you all see me yet. And there we go. We are sharing an autonomous AIS full screen. No big deal.

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Claire: We are live with a autonomous AI crustation now running video on my podcast. So, welcome Pauly the Clawbot. Let's get to our episode today. I am ClaVo, product leader and AI obsessive here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. I am also on a mission to try every single new hot AI tool taking over your timeline. And in case you missed it this week, it is Claudebot, recently renamed Moltbot, the Cristian that people are yoloing root access to. Cloudbot is an open-source AI agent that you can install on a virtual machine or on a desktop or laptop that you have access to that is self-learning, can spin up sub agents using Claude Code and other agent harnesses and can do in my lived experience a lot of damage. People are loving Claudebot for what it unlocks in terms of personal productivity. People are hating Claudebot in terms of security and the high high high high likelihood you're going to do something real dumb with it. This is a AI tool that I want you to know how it works, what it can do, and maybe some thoughts on the future of personal AI agents and enterprise AI agents. So today's episode is all about Claudebot and my experience going 0ero to one with this tool.

Claire: Okay. So just a couple things to know about Claudebot. It is pitched as AI that actually does things and it does do things including joining podcasts, but it's really positioned as something that can help you dayto-day with tasks. And the killer use case for it and the killer feature for it is you can as we've seen do it from your phone. And so if you want to WhatsApp, Telegram, iMessage, Claude Code and get it to do things for you, that is what Claudebot does. And you know, a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that I have to um correct right now, which is you need a Mac Mini or some sort of fancy hardware to use Claudebot. You do not.

Claire: Claudebot does run locally, but it can run um on your machine or it can run in the cloud. You can set it up for five bucks on Amazon. Um we'll do some notes on security if you're running it in the cloud, making sure that people don't have access to. But you do not need special hardware. It is not doing anything super fancy. Unless you're running mega mega mega local models, you really just don't need new hardware. If you want something shiny and fancy, go ahead. Feel free overnight it from the Apple store. Otherwise, you can run it on your machine. I'm running it on a MacBook Air that's sitting in on a shelf somewhere that I just picked up that no one was using. And I'm going to walk you through step by step how I set up my Claudebot. As somebody who's pretty paranoid about security and also wanted to test it as a real AI assistant.

Claire: So, the first thing I did was I got out I'm actually just going to show you. I got out this little this laptop, this guy. Um, which is a newish one, but nothing fancy. And I gave it its own username on this laptop. Now, don't tell Claude I have another user on this laptop, which does make me nervous because Claudebot has access to your file system. In theory, it could definitely gain access to that other user. It's a really old user. I don't actually think I have that much on it. and I was testing Cloudbot in a pretty constrained way. But if I were to continue to use Claudebot, I'd probably delete everything out that old user and just make this a Claudebot machine. The second thing that I did was install a bunch of prerequisites and dependencies.

Claire: So, as much as I love this quick start right here that says that you can just add one line in the terminal and get it installed, that was not my experience. even for a laptop that was like pretty fresh and new, I had to install some dependencies. It actually took me two hours to get this oneliner installed. So, I had to um upgrade Node. I had to install Homebrew. I had to install Xcode cuz Xcode wasn't installed on this. And then because Node and npm were out of date, I had to update those manually. And then finally actually installed it um just via npm. So that was my kind of overall experience installing. It took a little bit of time and my thought in installing was no sort of like consumer is going to go through this. This is definitely like a hacker tinkerer developer experience type tool right now.

Claire: That being said, you can use claude code to install it. I've seen a couple people go that path, but I really wanted to do the 0ero to one. what does claude.bot bot say that we need to do to install this thing and then what is that experience like? Now after you install all your dependencies and then after you install it goes through this onboarding flow um that has you create gateway off and gateway tokens and the first thing that you're going to [laughter] see in cloudbot onboarding is security. So it points you to the security link. It says that this is powerful and inherently risky and you just yolo and you just say yes. That being said, I highly recommend you read through the security page and that you run the security audits before you use Claudebot.

Claire: So the next step in onboarding is actually connecting Claudebot to whatever device you're going to use to contact it. So, I originally started with WhatsApp, but then I read the screen that said you should basically put WhatsApp on like a burner phone with its own SIM SOS. Like, don't do that. And so, I switched to Telegram, which I use for literally nothing. Um, because I'm an old lady mom, and set up a Telegram account. Now, to hook up Telegram, what you do is you message the BotFather, which again, this is like super shady stuff if you're a consumer and you don't know what you're doing and you never heard of Telegram and then you're told to go to botfather to connect this to your machine, but I did it anyway.

Claire: So, you message botfather and you say, you know, create new bot and you give it a name and you give it a handle. And then once you've done that, your Claudebot will see it. It will have a token and then you actually give Claudebot a personalized share token. That means that only your instance of Telegram can speak to the Claudebot. Remember, this is an open connection point to a machine that's running code with a bunch of access to things if you're using Clawbot to its full extent. So if somebody else is able to message your Claudebot, you are in trouble. It can do things like find secrets. It can send emails on your behalf. So you really want to make sure that the messaging system that you set up is locked down to only your phone, only your user. Now remember, phone gets stolen, it can connect into your Cloudbot, it's no good. But we're no one's going to steal my air um my MacBook Air yet except for my kids.

Claire: Okay, so I'm paired on Telegram and now you can do the magic. So what did I do with Claudebot? Well, first I thought about what were the use cases that were most useful for me and then I thought very seriously about what and how I was going to give it access to things. So what I did, this was my choice is I wanted to test it as a personal assistant. You know, it says on the homepage it can clear your inbox, send emails, manage your calendar, check you in for flights, all this stuff. So, I have had EAS in the past. I know how to onboard an EA. So, my goal with using Claudebot was to really see how it would work as an EA. And when I have a new EA, I don't let them into my email. I don't give them password to my account. What I do is give them their own email address.

Claire: So what I did and you can follow this if you want to from a security perspective although I think it has some drawbacks on the functionality of Cloudbot is I gave Cloudbot its own email address a Google Workspace email address and I gave that email address read access to my personal calendar to start and so the first thing that I wanted to do was give it the right accounts. The second thing I did which I've taken some inspiration from some people on X is I gave it access to its own limited vault on one password. So I use one password which is a password and secret sharing kind of app. I made a vault that's called Claude. Claude only has access. Claudebot only has access to that vault. And I started putting some passwords in there. None of these were passwords to anybody's accounts. They were passwords to Claude's own account and there was an anthropic API key in Claude's own account.

Claire: One other thing that I should call out during onboarding that I didn't is when you are onboarding you can choose what model you want to use anthropic openai local models anything you want. I chose sonnet 45. You can also kind of use cloud code with your own subscription or through API. I chose to use it through API because I wanted to see how much I was spending on cloudbot and we'll get to that at the end of the episode. And why did I choose Sonnet 45 for this uh exercise? One, honestly, I was scared. I was very scared about what Opus would actually do. Like it's so powerful. Um it like kind of made me nervous. Two, I actually didn't think that the tasks that I was doing needed Opus. I just didn't think it needed the horsepower. Like it's sending emails. It's looking at calendars. It's not that complicated. And then the last thing is I wanted to control cost. So I was really unsure about how much token usage all these sub aents would take. And so I was really costconscious. I thought that users would be costconcious. I've heard a lot of people running local models or cheaper models. And so I wanted to use this kind of like a user would use it. And I selected sonnet 45 which is a perfectly serviceable model.

Claire: Okay. So I gave it email access. I gave it um I gave it so an email. Now let's see what I started asking it to do. So the the next thing that it does when you're onboarding is it does this like bootstrap file and it walks you through a couple setup steps and in particular you're starting to load its personality and how it interacts with you. It asks you what should the bot call itself? Um, what is its personality like? Who are you? What's your time zone? Um, anything else you should know? And I called it Polly. It's an assistant. I want it to be professional but friendly. I like the the mermaid emoji, so I chose that. And it's updating updating its identity file. And then I said, "Hey, I'm Claire. I'm founder of Chat PRD. You're going to help me with as a personal assistant across family and work tasks." And it updated my info. So now it kind of knows about, you know, who it is, who I am, how to contact. It gives me instructions on how to contact and then it, you know, connected me to my first task.

Claire: Now, we had to go back and forth on some Telegram setup stuff. I'm going to skip that. And finally got a um response back from Telegram and we're going to do some scheduling tasks. you know, I was unsure on how Claudebot actually interacted with Google. And so I just asked it, you know, how do I give you access to this Google account and this Google calendar? And it's going to check how to set that up. And it gave me a couple steps to follow in terms of how to set up calendar access. Now, if you're a software engineer that has worked with Google APIs, you're probably familiar with this. But again, if you are kind of an everyday consumer or nontechnical person, you are going to have to get real familiar with the Google Cloud Console. You are going to have to set up API access, OOTH clients, a whole bunch of stuff. This did not take long because I have been personally victimized by the OOTH workflows of many integrations. I know exactly what to do here, but if you're not technical, you're going to have to start doing some technical things even to hook up your Google account.

Claire: And this is actually simpler on a desktop. I'm going to show you why. It is much more complicated on a virtual machine. So just kind of understand that this step is not as straightforward one click as you can do. So what you do is you go into Google console, you turn on the docs API, you turn on the email API, you turn on the the calendar API, and then you download a JSON file of client secrets. Now, this legit stressed me out. This is not like the kind of thing you just kind of like yolo email and back back and forth. It still requires OOTH verification manually, but I was a little concerned about its like willingness to just say upload these files anywhere. I can download it. Don't worry, I'm going to share save it secretly. And you know, if you're not a software engineer or you haven't you you haven't been trained on best practices in terms of security principles, you would probably just like follow these instructions. And I you'll see this along my chat. I really questioned this along the way. Now, for this particular one, I just did it. It's like a sandbox account. I don't really care. I gave it a local path to the JSON credential files. They're configured and I gave it the email address that I had assigned it and sent that to them.

Claire: And then it gives you this URL to authorize access. So this it gives you a URL to actually open up sign in to that new account and give it the permissions necessary and then it'll store those permissions locally. Now this is where I got a very interesting screen because if you recall my only intention with this task was to get it to look at the calendar and when I gave it permissions or when I went through the offflow it asked for this. It asked for the ability to basically see edit create and delete everything. delete, edit, see my files, see my contacts, see my spreadsheets, see my calendar events, see my email. And again, my is its account. So, in theory, this would have been okay. It was kind of like an empty state account. But that being said, I was just trying to do calendar stuff. And so, you will see here, I asked, do you really need all these scopes? And it gave me a classic AI. You are absolutely right. I do not need these scopes. and it reprompted me with that URL for just calendar scope.

Claire: So, if I were to give you a tip, it is watch how and what scope permission you're giving for any of these services. And if you're asking for something specific, only give it scopes for something specific. And if it only needs read access, only give it read access. Just be really thoughtful here. So, I just asked for calendar access. No big deal. Set it up and it told me it can do a bunch of stuff. So what did I have it do? Okay, so we just talked back and forth like we were a assistant and its boss. It gave me a summary of what's going on in the upcoming week, what I had today, what I had tomorrow, what was going on this week. And so I gave it a task that I would have normally given an assistant, which is going to the Vercel studio this week in San Francisco. I forgot to put it on my calendar. Like I don't remember. or can you look it up on the Verscell events page and put it on my calendar? And it couldn't actually find it on the blog and asked me some questions, gave me some options.

Claire: Um, it did say that I could, if I wanted to be, you know, easy an easygoing boss, give it access to Gmail, but I definitely wasn't going to do that. And so after a little bit of back and forth, including some drop Telegram messages, I said, "Let me give you email access to your own account and I'll forward you emails about it." So again, this is something that I would have done with a um EA. I would have just forward it and said, "Can you add this to my calendar?" No other contacts. Now, I did have to reauthorize access to its own email. Um so it went through that OOTH process again. It got the email. It ingested the event details from the email, which was really great, super helpful. It recommended things like adding buffer time for commute before and after, which is definitely what I needed. And I said that I wanted it to add that event to my calendar.

Claire: Now, if you recall, it doesn't have right access to my work calendar. It only has right access to its own calendar. And again, it really wanted me to give it edit access to my calendar. and I'm sorry, but absolutely not. And so, just like a colleague, just like an EA, instead I said, "Hey, can you just create an event on your calendar and invite me to it?" And it thought I was smart and said it would do that. And it did that really well. So, it added separate calendar blocks to my invite and it was really nice. Now, I noticed finally I found that it was actually on my calendar and so I at a different time. So I had it delete the duplicate event and actually um reset it and it got that completely right. So I would say for a single calendar event with a little back and forth it did pretty well. Like this is a little bit of what an assistant would do. My only complaints on this was actually how it thought about doing it was definitely like give me access to everything and I'll just impersonate you and and do things on your behalf. And that's really not what I wanted. I wanted it to act like a assistant.

Claire: So the next thing that I did was I wanted to figure out what more Claudebot could do for me. And so I asked it directly like, "Let's figure out how we can work together. I want to stay coordinated on tasks. Tell me how you want to work together." And it gave me some really good options and was pretty flexible about how we could work together. And it called out what it already has, which is calendar access, date memory files, Telegram where we can communicate, Gmail access, which we just talked about. And here are some options. We could do a to-do file, we could use calendar events, we could use email, we could keep notes. What's my preference? And I just said, again, I don't really care how we work with my my AI bot. I just said, whatever is easier for you.

Claire: And then I dumped a bunch of things that are top of mind. Again, this is how I would work with an EA. I just sit down with them, text them, slack them and say, "Hey, this was on my mind. Can you get it all organized and work me through it?" So, what was on my mind? I have an interview with the CEO of Versel. I need to reschedule some of our upcoming How I AI episodes because, if you all don't know, I'm coming back for maternity leave and I over booked myself. I have to stay on top of my enterprise pipeline for chat PRD. So, I want it to focus on my CRM. And those are the top priorities I have. and it summarized those priorities back to me, captured them in a to-do, and then started on the first task, which was rescheduling my how I AI recordings and making some recommendations on how I can do my calendar events better.

Claire: Now, one thing I want to call out while we're sitting here, um, is this all looks really, really great and super fun. Like, yep, got it. Here are your priorities. The reality is one thing that I don't hear people talking about in terms of Claudebot is latency. It is actually real slow. And it's not slow compared to a human necessarily, right? Like if you text a human or Slack and EA and you say, "Hey, here are my priorities." It's going to take them a hot minute to kind of organize them, get the work done, and um and get back to you. But when you're used to something like clawed code, like a cursor, like a chat GPT, which is always giving you product kind of progress feedback, it's telling you its reasoning. It's showing you its tool calls. It's really hard to wait for an asynchronous bot to get back to you on Telegram. I would say that was one of the pieces that has been most frustrating with working with Cloudbot is it just feels slow.

Claire: And I know it's because it's spinning off these sub agents. It's doing a lot of tasks. It's probably prompted only to get back to you when it has something to do or needs clarification, but it's quite slow. And you'll actually see in the prompting I ask it, can you always send me an ACT message when I send something even if you need to research or kick off a sub agent? Now, it did not do this, so it still remained slow, but I have to figure out how to get it to always respond to me first versus setting off its task. Okay, so back to the task that we were doing at hand. I asked it to give me um some recommendations on how I AI podcast rescheduled. I had like five in the first week. I'm back from Matt leave that is cuckoo. And so what it recommended is that I keep a couple um episodes. I rescheduled some after Valentine's Day. It asked me my thoughts. I gave it some feedback and it revised its plan.

Claire: Now, here's where things get fun. Once we aligned on what I wanted to move to later, I asked it to email those two people that I needed to reschedule and asked them if they would mind rescheduling to March. I gave that it's my scheduling link so they could actually just self-reschedule to mark and I said copy my work email on those emails and it said drafting those emails down now I thought it would draft them. I was I was wrong. It just sent them and it sent them in a very funny way. Okay. So then it sent this email which was lovely. It said, "I hope you do well. I wanted to talk to you about our podcast recording. I need to reschedule. Except it sent it as me. It sent it as Clarvo and it's clearly coming from a separate email address. I gave it a fake name. It was [laughter] not good at all and it actually impersonated me.

Claire: So, I actually responded to this lovely podcast guest and I said, "I'm sorry. I'm testing Claudebot. It totally impersonated me and made me sound crazy. Uh, but please can we can we still reschedule?" So, thank you to my two guests for being really patient as my AI guinea pigs. And I went back to Claudebot and I said, "Come on, man. Don't impersonate me. You need to reach out as my assistant. I already explained this. I already gave you an identity. Like, please always identify yourself as an assistant." And it should, I think, knock on wood, store this in its memory and do this in the future. But it was a really funny learning in terms of prompting is really quite important. I thought I was being fairly careful with permissions, which I was. It could only do a couple things, but I underestimated how much it seems like this tool is biased towards acting as you as opposed to acting as an assistant. And I'll have to look through the repository and I'll have to kind of get myself familiar with how it's implemented. That's not the intention of this podcast to really understand why that is happening. But prompting really, really matters.

Claire: And I think the product lesson here that's kind of interesting is yes, I could have been really, really precious about prompting. I could have said, "Create a draft of this email to these guests. Send it to me for review before you send it." But at the point that I'm doing that and each turn takes at least a couple minutes, this is not a productivity tool. this is not making me more efficient than sending that email myself. And so I do think there's this balance between these autonomous agents being user controlled and being really cautious about how you prompt it and being autonomous and probably doing some things wrong. And I think this is a prompting problem on both sides. It's a prompting problem on the product provider side. It's a prompting problem on the user side. And I don't think enough people are probably sophisticated enough to decompose why one prompt versus the other would do well if you're just a consumer or a proumer. And so I think this is where a lot of the weird behaviors that you'll see are coming out.

Claire: So so far what have I done with Claudebot? I've installed it. I have given an identity. We have rescheduled one event or we have scheduled one event. We have given an access to email. We have rescheduled two events now and emailed guest about these events. And then this is where it goes crazy. This is where it gets fun. So I decided to give it edit access to our family calendar. This is a calendar where we have pickups and drop offs and basketball games and piano practice and my ballet practice and all that stuff. Now I love this calendar. It was very important to me and if I needed to nuke it, I definitely could. So I gave it access and what I wanted it to do was one email my husband and I about upcoming week and you know get us coordinated on where there were gaps in terms of pickups or conflicts where I was across the city at a Verscell event and he was needing to pick up the kids for basketball practice and I wanted it to fill out the rest of my calendar. My kids have started a new basketball season. Our neighbors picking up the kids on a certain day. all those things I wanted to get it done.

Claire: And here [snorts] is the problem. I gave it a bunch of instructions and it could read that calendar pretty well. It could categorize the events pretty well and it had no idea what day it was. And so as I was on Telegram going back and forth giving it, can you add this? Can you remove this? Can you change the schedule? I thought it was doing a great job on Telegram because I wasn't really paying super attention. Um, and it was confirming that it did all these things and then I opened up my calendar and everything was on the wrong day. I mean, everything was on the wrong day. And if you are a parent, you get this. You're like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Is so and so picking up kid number two on Tuesdays or Wednesdays? And I know I moved piano, but I don't think I moved it to that day." So, it took me a second to understand the damage it had it had done, but it had really gotten things wrong.

Claire: You can see me say, "Stop. You are setting all these one day late." And it was setting everything one day late. And not only was it setting everything one day late, the CLI tool that it was using to add these events to the calendar could only set oneoff calendars. And so, every it could not set a recurring event. So, if I wanted to delete these broken events, I had to go through one by one and delete them. And then the other problem with our crustation friend here when you're collaborating with them is I was on my computer, this one, um, with my calendar open. It was over here in the CLI with its CLI open, and we were conflicting with each other. So I would try to delete all these bad events and then it would go put them back cuz it thought something got broken. We were just I was trying to add them in. I said, you know, stop. It did not stop because of latency and because of these sub agents. And so I went through and set up everything correctly and it went through and deleted all my work.

Claire: It was it was terrible. It was really really stressful. Um and I said, you know, I had to completely redo. It's like emailing my husband every five seconds. Um, and so it it was not great and it actually never got it right. And I will show and share with you the discussion we had about time zones. But this is another thing that you know non-software engineers using something like this really have to be aware of is as I said on X the only remaining software engineering problem is time zone conversion and LLMs just have no sense of space and time. It just does not know when now is. It doesn't have a sense of time passing. Um now I will say Claudebot because it has these daily files and daily logs has a little bit more of a temporal sense but not a great one.

Claire: And so if you don't understand why a computer could get dates wrong using a tool like this, you're going to get really frustrated. I could at least understand why time zone conversion, maybe there was a UTC time stamp in the Google API. I could at least understand why this was happening and help guide it towards a solution. But it certainly was frustrating and something that I don't think your everyday user would be able to do. So, I'm going to entertain you all and I'm I'm going to tell you as I was doing this, um, I took a pause and I took my two youngest kids to Target because we were out of stuff. So, I asked if it could discuss things with me via voice and it said, "Sure, you can send me voice notes. I can send text back. I could send you voice notes back or we could go through Twilio and I could set up a phone call." I just said, "Let's set up voice notes to your text reply." And so I could um press voice on Telegram and have it reply to me as I was on the go.

Claire: And so while we were in this back and forth on um time zones, I want to share with you my delightful voice messages to Claudebot because this was a real real energy. Let's see if we can hear them. Okay, so this is me at Target pushing a cart getting really mad at Claudebot. You put it back, but that is a third a Friday. Friday is correct date, so do not change anything, but can you please explain to me why you are getting days mixed up? This league game is on the correct day. Again, please do not change it, but I do not understand why you have the days mixed up. Okay, so I am getting super annoyed by this um experience of getting days wrong. And it replies, "Oh my gosh, you are absolutely right. I see the problem now. I was off by one day. Here's all the new dates." And they were still definitely off by one day. So once I sent my mean mom message, it came back with me and said, "You are absolutely right. I apologize. Here are the dates."

Claire: Right. The issue is I've been, this is fiery funny, I've been trying to quote unquote mentally calculate which day of the week each date falls on. Even though the API is telling me what the date of week is, I should probably trust it. But I was using my LLM brain to decide. And what did I say back to it? Well, I said this. You are a computer. You are not doing anything quote unquote mentally. You are making calculations. Can you look in your logs at all and understand where the calculations come from or no? And if you did not enjoy this, that is my very, very new baby crying in the background as I'm lifting him from the car seat into the stroller. It was quite an energy. And again, this is one of those things that as a software engineer, I get it. I have done time zone conversions for my for for my whole life. I understand the APIs return things in all sorts of formats. I understand LLMs can't do, you know, basic math when it comes to dates. It's just too hard. We do not have the technology.

Claire: And yet, the fact that this model told me it was doing it in his head was so hilarious. So, once we had the back and forth about this, it gave itself a rule to follow in terms of getting these dates right, and then I asked it to add it to its rules. Now, the final thing that we did is I asked if it could send me voice notes back. And this is where some of the magic of Clawbot really does come out. One of the things that people have been saying about Claudebot that's so cool is you can just get it can give it self skills. It can learn things. It can just do things very magically. And if you were trying to get back and forth voice notes in Telegram, it would have been pretty hard to like figure out what API you want to use and what skill and hook it up and use cloud code, all this stuff. And it just did it. So, when I said, "Can you please send me voice notes back?" It just sent me a voice note back. So, let's see.

Clawdbot: Yes, I can send voice messages back to you. Let me know if you'd like me to use voice for replies. I can do that anytime you want.

Claire: So, that was a pretty magical moment. And, you know, I've been giving Claudebot a really hard time in in this episode. Not because I don't think it's an awesome product. The reality is going back and forth via text with something that has helpful access to your calendar, has helpful access to your email, can learn skills like voice that you can just chitchat to. I actually really liked the form factor of the experience and I liked the concept of what it could deliver.

Claire: It was just that the implementation of it had a couple things. one, too technical for the everyday user, two, too scary to the security aware user, and three, latency that took some of the magic away from the experience. And so again, I don't think this is a bad product from a capital P product perspective. I'm just not in love with the implementation. And we'll just summarize my what I did with Claudebot with my last use case, which is I had Claudebot use its history to create a Nex.js app that showed the history of our conversation. And I asked it to redact names, numbers, URLs, email addresses, all that stuff so I could share it with all of you. Um, so again, kind of a classic AI engineering AI coding vibe coding use case.

Claire: Now, the one thing that I will say is a lot of people are really excited or say they're excited, I don't know if they've used it, to use Cloudbot to spin off Cloud Code to do coding for them. And where this wasn't the magic use case for me and why I didn't start it is I've been spinning off remote agents with computer access to do coding for me for a while. I use Devon which has a virtual machine in a local environment and can spin up stuff access to the web uh all the time. I use it from Slack so I can appmention Devon. You know I have a Slackbot for chat pd so I'm apping my product manager all the time. Cursor has background agents. You know everything has you you codeex you can kick off online. So I don't know if people are just not using those tools. I guess claude code um doesn't have have one like that quite yet. I don't know if people aren't using those tools, but I've been coding by kicking off an asynchronous teammate, quote unquote, for, you know, two years now. And so that piece was never what I wanted to use Claudebot for.

Claire: But I thought, you got to vi code something when you're trying a new agent. And I did that. So what I did is I sent Polly the Claudebot a voice note. And this is the requirements I gave it. Okay, let's use voice from here on out. I want you to document our conversation in a next.js JS web app that shows the back and forth of our full conversation from the very beginning today till the end in a UI. I want you to redact anything that is a secret key, a person's name or a specific place. And I want to toggle between two UI versions of this display. I want you to be able to show me a terminal style conversation back and forth similar to a claude code or you claude bot c l a w db b o t or I want you to show me a telegram style text back and forth. The content should be in JSON the same again redact names, emails, dates, etc. replace them with placeholders or redacted blocks and then generate the next JS app. I'm going to use this so I can share this conversation with others without sharing my information or having to do a screen recording. We are eventually going to deploy this to Verscell. Can you let me know when it's deployed to Versel so I can look at it?

Claire: So I sent it this message and it kicked off local development building a next.js app. Now, when I got back to my laptop that Claude was running on, one of the things that I noticed is deploying it actually wasn't that simple. Claudebot didn't have a GitHub account. Claudebot I didn't really want to add to my Versell account. I didn't want to log into those things. It seemed like a big rigomearroll. And so, getting it to deploy without having to set up a bunch of accounts seemed not fun. So what I did instead, don't tell anybody, is I air dropped the repo to my own laptop here. I actually logged into Claude Code and made some edits. And to be honest, in terms of coding quality and just the back and forth with the latency of Claudebot and the inability to sort of see what decisions it's making from a coding perspective, I didn't love Claudebot Telegram vibe coding. It's just too slow. the cycles aren't good enough, they aren't incremental enough, it's clearly not like perfectly tuned for the coding use case. It's not like sending me a PR link, all those sorts of things. And so I just preferred working with it on my desktop in claw code and deploying it through my normal system. So that's a little bit feedback there.

Claire: One thing that I did think was really cool is when I was on my go on the go and it said the app was ready, you know, I was in Target or whatever and I wasn't at a place where I could run a local machine. It was pretty cool to say, hey, like shoot me a screenshot of what it looks like and it did it it shot me screenshots of what the app looked like directly in Telegram. So, I do think there's some underappreciated aspects, really simple things. Email me that file, share me a screenshot that are really useful to interface with a a laptop or a desktop or a device at home. So, I do think this is an underappreciated aspect of being able to chat with your computer. It can do things like send you files, take screenshots, open up browsers. That is pretty cool, especially since we don't store everything in the cloud. All my desktop screenshots are not in the cloud. some of the PDFs that I download are not in the cloud. And so this is this was a really kind of like fun use case for chatting with a remote developer. Now, that being said, Devon sends me screenshots all the time. I don't think it's perfect for coding, but it's something to think about.

Claire: So, I want to end this workflow section with one workflow that I thought it did a particularly good job at. And it was good for two reasons. One, the product interface was what I wanted. I got the full Claudebot bot experience. The second thing was the output was really good. So what did I ask it to do? Well, I asked Claudebot to go on Reddit and research what people would want from Chat PD. So I said go on Reddit. I I did this during voice note. I said go on Reddit, find what people want from Chat PR, find what they want from a product AI platform and email me a report. And what did I love about the product experience? One of the killer features of Cladbot is the ability to message anywhere, anything, anyhow. I sent it to voice note. I could shoot it an email. I could text if that was faster. And it would reply in kind as text, as voice, whatever. And it would also email me. So, it felt very much like an employee that I was working with. Hey, like send them a Slack. And they're like, yep, it's in your inbox. That sort of always on anywhere anyhow communication flow for the agent was really really nice.

Claire: The second thing I like from a product perspective is I've talked about this from a negative point of view which is the latency is not great. It's just not super responsive and super fast and it's kind of broken sometimes. But if this is a research task that I don't really think should come back quickly, I don't mind waiting for Claudebot to do a good job. And it did. And it's very similar to an experience with an employee. if I give them sort of a research task or roadmap task, I don't expect it to be returned in 30 seconds except they go out, do a bunch of research and come back to me and so I wasn't as bothered by the latency here. And then the third thing is I thought the output was actually quite good. So, I'll show you what it sent me, which is it sent me this chat Reddit research markdown document, emailed it to my inbox, and it listed out key insights from research Reddit from researching Reddit. And what I thought was awesome is this is right, but it's presented in a really simple, punchy way that I can go action. this is exactly how I would want a PM or a research assistant on my team to come back with insights and these are the things that we hear. So, it was really accurate.

Claire: You know, integration limitations both on our side and customer sites hard. No one reads long PRDs. Let's make our PRDS shorter. Um, you know, PRDs need to be living documents. All these things, a couple bullet points, a couple reference links to Reddit threads. And I have a full document that I can go build a road map off of. And in fact, that's exactly what I asked it to do. I said, go build a road map based on this. look at our current functionality and tell me what I should build next. This felt pretty magic. I'm probably going to steal some of these ideas. I'm going to circle around to that in a little bit in terms of what I think is next for Claudebot. But I do think there is going to be demand both from a consumer perspective and from an enterprise business perspective on a agent employee that feels like an agent employee. It has a computer. It has account access. It can do things. It does those things well.

Claire: But I think there are some things we're going to have to figure out first before we let it loose. And again, you can see this here. I asked it to do a road map. It totally just didn't do it. It forgot it. Said, "Let me check on the background agent." Then never replied. So again, we're hitting some, you know, sharp edges on the product experience. It's not perfect, but it is pretty interesting. So what have I showed you so far? One, I have told you a little bit at a high level what Claudebot is. Although I haven't gone into all the detail about how it works, not really the point of this episode. I've showed how to onboard with Claudebot, including how to connect Telegram to chat back and forth with it on text or voice. I've showed you how I give access to its own Gmail workspace account as well as one password so it can interact with limited scope to my data. I've given you some warnings about what you should think about in terms of scope and access there. I've gone through a couple workflows, couple admin workflows, which are simple calendar all the way to advanced calendar management. Did not do well because it doesn't have a good sense of time and space, but hopefully we'll figure that out.

Claire: As software engineers overall, I asked it to contact partners and guests by email. It did not a great job there because it lost a sense of its own identity. I had it do vibe coding, which it did a fine job at, but is definitely not my favorite tool for AI engineering remotely and asynchronously. And then finally, I showed you my favorite use case was for it to do some complex research and analysis with tools with web. And it did a really good job and came back with came back to me with something that I really like. Now, one thing that I didn't go check that I'm going to go check next is did it teach itself all these skills? Was it really telling me the truth when it said it had rules? A peak under the hood, which I will probably do as a follow-up either on X or here on the podcast. Like, how does this thing work behind the scenes? That was not the point of this episode. The point of this episode was to show how somebody would come with a blank idea, maybe a fresh Mac Mini, install this thing from the command line, and actually get it to do things. And I think I showed you it's good at some things, bad at others, and scary across the board.

Claire: So, let's get to my final thoughts here, which are basically that and and I shared this on X. But the whole time I was doing Claudebot, the whole time I was using this, I thought two things. One, this is so scary. This is a terrible idea. Nobody should be doing this. It should not have access to all this stuff on my computer. I should not be sharing these keys locally. I should not let LLMs have access to Gmail OOTH, even if it's a sandbox app. I was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no. SOS. Don't love it." As I said, this is the final boss of security training. You should be very careful about what you give it access to. And one of the things that I'm most concerned about is probably you get the most power from Claudebot if you give it access to your actual inbox, to your actual calendar, to your actual documents, to your actual repositories, your actual GitHub.

Claire: And I can imagine so many things going wrong with that. Just knowing how it's built, which it's built in an awesome way. I think Pete's done an incredible job. I don't think there's any ill will or mal intent in how it's built. It's powerful. It self-learns. It installs skills. It asks for permission. It's pretty independent. All that stuff is great until you have full readr access to your most personal information. And one of the things that I was thinking as I was, you know, preparing for the show is great, I just gave an autonomous AI agent access to where my kids basketball practices are. Like is that something like do we want to selfdoc um AI crustation? Probably not. So I think that's going to be one of the challenges of this product because the second feeling I had was boy oh boy, I want this thing. I want AI that I can text. I want AI that does not make it complicated to talk back and forth with voice. I want AI that when I say, "Hey, can you look at my CRM?" doesn't say, "Go to this web page and press this button and enter this API key and do this and that." I just want it to happen automatically. I want all that.

Claire: I just don't think this is it yet. Like this does not feel yet like the interface to get me there. And so I have this real tension between I think the product from product experience isn't quite there yet. It's not really for the non-technical. So it really is for tinkerers and hackers. There's a lot of security stuff here that's super scary. And can I have it please? And so maybe this is an example of something that from a market category perspective definitely has product market fit. There are gajillions of dollars to make here. I just don't know if this open- source YOLO mode terminal tool is is the thing. And in fact, I'm gonna take, you know, this laptop soon and office space it. Um, for those of you that are very young, that means I'm going to go like hit it with sledgehammer. But like, I'm going to uninstall it. I'm going to remove those keys. I'm going to delete the Telegram B. Like, I don't like this. This makes me nervous. And I'm also going to go build one for myself.

Claire: And so I think there is why there has been such a zeitgeist around this product is it is actually really cool to be able to chat voice whatever a very smart self-sufficient agent and hackers see it and they're also you know more risk tolerance than the everyday person. But that being said, like husband, please don't connect your Gmail to this. Like mom, absolutely not. Like kids, stay away. Not not safe for kids. Like this is just this is something that unless you have been through a security tabletop exercise and know what to know. Um I would just be really cautious about how permissive you are in terms of access. And that leads me to my final final question of this episode, which is, you know, I think Claude will live in our hearts forever. And in fact, it's probably got a great feature in front of it. I love how fast the team is going, Claudebot. But who's going to build this thing for real? Like, who is actually going to build this thing for real? Who is going to build the consumer version of it? Who is going to build the enterprise version of it? Who is going to get it right? And I think this is a complicated question, and I'm just going to pose some thoughts as we close out this episode.

Claire: You know, this should be Google or Microsoft's game to lose. Maybe even Metas on the consumer side, but this should be Google or Microsoft's game to lose. Like, they have the data, they have your Gmail, they have your calendar, they have documents, they have the models. The models are exceptional. They just got to build the, you know, they have devices. um Android, they just have to build the product experience and have the sort of institutional fortitude and um close your eyes legal team to allow some of this to happen because I think it's a really cool product built on top of the Google ecosystem. I mean, I think the same on the enterprise from a Microsoft perspective. If Copilot did this, this is pretty incredible.

Claire: That being said, I don't know if those companies are going to have the velocity or the bravery to go as yolo as Cloudbot did. So, I don't know if we're going to get there with the big companies. On the flip side, you see Cloudbot open source, great for hackers, but super scary. Um, giving like API key and OOTH access. Smaller companies, startups are going to see this and want to build this. And I think one of the things that I would warn startups, it's really hard to build on top of these data sources for real because Google doesn't want to give you read, write, go, do everything access to their data. Microsoft does not. You have to go through these compliance hoops and approvals and um reviews. And so while I love the idea of a do everything, do anything bot, it's going to be complicated from a product builder perspective. It's going to be complicated from a large company perspective. who gets the data and then again like is Apple gonna get in this game? This is just what everybody wants from Siri to do. Siri has all your apps, all your access but again it's a combination of product building skills and um risk tolerance I think and willingness to experiment.

Claire: Maybe anthropic and open AI come in. Maybe we get our open AI OS and workspace tools and maybe we get cla um we get some new versions of this. It'll just be really interesting to see how this shakes out. So, in conclusion, what are my thoughts about Clawbot? It is scary. It is fun. Um, it does some things really, really well. It is really interesting from a interface perspective and it doesn't always work. And I'm not sure it's for I was going to say everyone, but I'm not sure it's for for anyone right now except for people who are really willing to roll the dice with their AI bot. That being said, if you're willing to do that, the way this has been built, the way it self-discover skills, the way it stores its memory, the way it gives itself access is really interesting and should inspire a lot of product builders thinking about AI products on what the interface of the future is. I think we are going to be seeing and hearing a lot more about agents like this. I am going to be giving you my honest takes about where they are now and where they're going to be in the future. And in the meantime, I'm going to go execute Polly the Clawbot. Thanks, and I'll see you next time on How I AI.

Claire: Thanks so much for watching. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe here on YouTube, or even better, leave us a comment with your thoughts. You can also find this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. [music] Please consider leaving us a rating and review, which will help others find the show. You can see all our episodes and learn more about the show at howiipod.com. See you next time.