Nicola Tangen: hi everybody I'm Nicola tangin the CEO of the Norwegian some wellth fund

Nicola Tangen: and today we have a very very special guest

Nicola Tangen: L strore is a dean of Stockholm School of Economics which is one of the finest Business Schools in Europe

Nicola Tangen: and Lars you have revolutionized the Stockholm School of economics and we are going to talk about that today

Nicola Tangen: so warm welcome thanks so much

Lars Strannegård: great to be here

Nicola Tangen: now um one of the big things you have done is really to introduce culture and learning about culture into the school

Nicola Tangen: why is culture important in business education

Lars Strannegård: because it's uh when we say culture we mean uh Arts we mean literature uh and also music

Lars Strannegård: but basically the idea behind that is uh to open up your senses to contextualize to make you see the world from New Perspectives

Lars Strannegård: uh and it's actually you know many business school students um believe that they know how the world functions and how it operates

Nicola Tangen: and you think they don't

Lars Strannegård: well I think they're there to learn right

Lars Strannegård: yeah so uh I think it's a good idea to expose them to things that they don't really understand uh where they start asking themselves questions where you actually sort of widen the blinders that we all have not just students

Lars Strannegård: and art can actually serve uh as a sort of intellectual and emotional itching powder to make you understand the world in another way and and also um increase your your humbleness

Lars Strannegård: you become more humble if you see things that you don't understand and learn to live with it

Nicola Tangen: what are you seeing in people after they have been through this treatment it like

Lars Strannegård: well after the treatments uh I think they um um they get a sort of Fuller understanding uh of the world not always uh of course not

Lars Strannegård: I mean you can still go through our education program uh just knowing the sort of the figures and the statistics and what happens only when the uh sort of uh demand and Supply curves meet

Lars Strannegård: but I do think that they are more open to the world and I also think uh this idea of being humble is really really key in the world that we're living in now

Nicola Tangen: why does culture lead to humbleness

Lars Strannegård: because it sort of uh makes you um realize that you don't understand everything

Lars Strannegård: if you have that type of cultural expressions uh it is what they what it can do

Lars Strannegård: it can also increase your empathy

Lars Strannegård: so for instance if you if you watch a TV show like Mad Men then you know what it's like to live in Manhattan in the 1960s working in Ad Agency business and being treated badly if you're a woman and being treated badly if you're a woman uh even though you yourself have never been in that position or that situation uh and that's sort of one of the greatnesses of of high quality culture that can move you to other times to other spaces and to other sets of Minds

Lars Strannegård: uh and that's sort of one of the greatnesses of of high quality culture that can move you to other times to other spaces and to other sets of Minds

Lars Strannegård: so uh I mean if you read Romeo and Juliet you know what it's like to be in love with the wrong person even though you yourself have perhaps never ever been in love and definitely not been in love you know sever hundred years ago in an imaginary Italy

Lars Strannegård: so if you that's sort of one of the the great uh sort of capacities that high quality cultural expressions carry

Nicola Tangen: yeah no we see I I've seen the research and the more fiction you read the more empathy you have yeah

Nicola Tangen: why is empathy important

Lars Strannegård: well I guess the short answer to that is that because the uh machines don't have it right

Lars Strannegård: so um they we are living in a highly digitalized world uh infused by artificial intelligence

Lars Strannegård: and uh artificial intelligence uh is fantastic as we know and so impressive but it lacks um understanding of others

Lars Strannegård: it it cannot put itself into somebody else's clothes it's got no feelings uh

Lars Strannegård: it can mimic very well also very it's very good at it to to mimic empathy but it's got no real authentic uh empathy

Lars Strannegård: and um and also it it's got no sense making uh capability

Lars Strannegård: you know it's artificial intelligence and especially generative AI uh is basically all about putting things together assembling texts or or or or or or videos or uh uh or images in a way that seems plausible to the human mind

Lars Strannegård: but uh it cannot really say uh that that that that it's true right

Lars Strannegård: uh it because it's still hallucinating AI still has a lot of problems in in uh in hallucinations uh uh

Lars Strannegård: and uh thereby if you just practice your human skills understanding others your sense making capabilities your your uh your feelings basically and And the emotions those are things that uh that machines don't have

Lars Strannegård: so of course you should sort of try to Foster them uh and develop them

Nicola Tangen: what does uh culture do to the learning environment and the ability to learn and absorb

Lars Strannegård: well I think it sort of increases the knowledge intensity if you it's kind of simple

Lars Strannegård: I mean if you are in a if you sit in a bunker it's not inspired ing uh

Lars Strannegård: and if you are in a uh in in an environment that sort of uh uh sort of it it sort of awakens your your feelings your uh also your perception and your attention it makes it sort of interesting

Lars Strannegård: and art can also I mean it communicates to you not just cognitively uh but also emotionally

Lars Strannegård: so thereby uh I I think there are sort of more trajectories or sort of Roads open to learning and creativity

Nicola Tangen: what does it do it's kind of a leading question because I I agree I agree with your view here but what do you just to spell it out what do you think it does to creativity

Lars Strannegård: I think it of of course enhances your creativity

Lars Strannegård: and why is that because creativity is basically all about uh combining things that are usually well known but in new ways

Lars Strannegård: so if you sort of open the freeways that you have in your brain and in your connections to others uh it's uh it's it's more probable that you come up with new things

Lars Strannegård: it's it's sort of if you just walk on the on the track that you've always been walking on uh you won't come up with with with many new ideas

Lars Strannegård: but if you if you are exposed to and sort of urged to see the world in new ways uh it creates something new

Nicola Tangen: what does it do or have you seen examples of how it can improve cooperation and collaboration

Lars Strannegård: yeah absolutely

Lars Strannegård: I think it's uh I mean our entire environment uh is now packed with art

Lars Strannegård: I mean you can't walk one single foot or a meter uh without being an exposed to an artwork

Lars Strannegård: uh and also I think the um uh the development of our of our business lab our incubator it's now one of Europe's most successful ones

Lars Strannegård: uh and I mean being in that type of environment sort of just Sparks your willingness to to live really right

Lars Strannegård: I mean it's sort of it's an more interesting place

Lars Strannegård: uh it uh it also I I don't think we should underestimate the fact that it's you know conversation starters yeah

Lars Strannegård: uh it's also just something more pleasant and that it's fun you know it can actually be fun

Lars Strannegård: uh if you have a wall with that's completely empty or you have a wall where there's something uh you know a work of art of some kind something human made uh and if it can if it can spark your imagination or sort of makes you tick somehow uh you can get new types of conversations you interact with people in a new way

Lars Strannegård: so I think it's a it's a perfect grease in uh in human interaction

Nicola Tangen: L let's go into one or two of the classrooms

Nicola Tangen: what are we where do you want to go first where should we go

Lars Strannegård: well we can go into um one uh but first you come through the big door of stockolm school economics right

Lars Strannegård: pretty impressive stuff

Nicola Tangen: yes big Building Wealth history

Nicola Tangen: it looks like a bank

Lars Strannegård: it looks like a bank yeah that's the idea too

Lars Strannegård: but then it opens up and you see lots of funky stuff yeah

Lars Strannegård: the first thing you see is uh it's a huge video screen where we have curated video uh exhibitions in collaboration with different art institutions like the the Museum of Modern Art in Stockholm Etc uh also with with International

Lars Strannegård: uh also with with International

Lars Strannegård: but then we go into classrooms

Nicola Tangen: then you go into classrooms

Nicola Tangen: which one where you

Lars Strannegård: we can start in uh one that's um um designed by Jacob dalren and he say one of Sweden's most well-known artists he's been at the Venice banal Etc

Lars Strannegård: and he say one of Sweden's most well-known artists he's been at the Venice banal Etc

Lars Strannegård: and what you see is that the walls uh are full of patterns

Lars Strannegård: so basically looks uh you know it's stripes and squares uh and different types of Curves

Lars Strannegård: then if you look closely you see uh that they are made up of first of all School material like pens and pencils and also they are made up by measurement instruments like uh rulers and um yeah different types of of measurement instruments

Lars Strannegård: uh and they just form a pattern

Lars Strannegård: so it's sort of makes you think uh or I mean it's it's a clear comment on that everything we do at this academic institution is based on measuring the world right

Lars Strannegård: that's what researchers do uh they quantify it

Lars Strannegård: so basically you can have conversations about uh quantification the quantifiable world uh and what what uh numbers and figures actually do to you

Lars Strannegård: things like what uh uh that which is not counted does not count Etc these things that uh you know that that we have our kpis Etc in order to to uh prescribe action of different kind through numbers

Lars Strannegård: and then also uh you see that the the um uh the shape of of the way that these measurement instruments are are assembled is in uh it's an in an abstract form it's basically an abstract pattern

Lars Strannegård: so then you can speak about abstractions uh you know what

Lars Strannegård: because all that higher education is about is actually abstractions

Lars Strannegård: so if you have a profit and loss statement that's surely an abstraction of something more uh you know uh real in a way

Lars Strannegård: so using theories using models uh understanding the world from a uh from another perspective is all about abstractions

Lars Strannegård: and then you can speak about the connection between measuring and abstractions and then trying to understand what abstract thinking is all about

Lars Strannegård: and and just sort of thinking reflecting on the very idea of the abstract ract is something that a higher education institution definitely should do I think

Nicola Tangen: yeah absolutely

Nicola Tangen: well I mean any report is an abstraction of a company's finances for instance

Lars Strannegård: exactly

Lars Strannegård: so abstraction I mean it's basically about getting as much information as possible uh into some other shape and form right

Lars Strannegård: so it should be you know your you're if you take an annual report the idea is to show so much as you can of a company uh in in a few pages in a few tables in a few images

Lars Strannegård: in German uh or in German language you um split between house building and build

Nicola Tangen: yeah

Lars Strannegård: I'm not sure we have a good word for it in the Scandinavian language

Nicola Tangen: yeah we do

Lars Strannegård: actually in Scandinavian we do we have building and building but English does not have it right

Nicola Tangen: and you you basically educate uh the leaders of tomorrow

Nicola Tangen: why is it important for Future Leaders to have building

Lars Strannegård: well buildong uh one one definition of that it's uh building is that which is left after you've forgotten what you've learned yeah

Nicola Tangen: yeah

Lars Strannegård: so that means that uh what you've forgotten what you've learned I mean we all do that we forget lots of things uh right

Lars Strannegård: what years things happened uh Etc but what's left is an approach to the world and a stance to the world and a way that you approach it

Lars Strannegård: so uh it's it's sort of a position more than a goal

Nicola Tangen: so and the stuff that you are doing how does that um make building better

Lars Strannegård: well it does because what we do is to try to we have have an uh an educational mission that we abbreviate as free F re uh

Lars Strannegård: and the F stands for fact and science based approach completely key in this world right

Lars Strannegård: uh especially in the in the age of generative AI when truths are not what they used to be because they can now be fabricated and you cannot believe your eyes or your ears anymore

Lars Strannegård: so we're living in some kind of ontological Crisis where you don't know uh that what you see actually exists

Lars Strannegård: so practicing that your your fact and science-based mindset is key

Lars Strannegård: and then the r stands for reflective and self-aware so sort of asking yourself you know uh where does this piece of data come from who benefits from this and where do my attitudes my opinions and even my feelings come from are they my own or are they produced by somebody else and then internalized by me so I think they're my own important things to do right

Lars Strannegård: important things to do right

Lars Strannegård: and then the uh the first e stands for empathetic and culturally literate and that's uh sort of why we use the art in order to create this uh uh or enhance your empathy and your Cultural Literacy

Lars Strannegård: and then the finally stands for entrepreneurial uh and responsible which means that you actually do something you have uh agency

Lars Strannegård: so this abbreviation free that is our definition of buum

Lars Strannegård: so if you have that approach if you go into the world uh being fact-based reflective empathetic uh and entrepreneurial it's sort of a vaccination to getting stuck in mental models and theories that uh used to be true but perhaps no longer are

Lars Strannegård: so thereby it's sort of an approach to to ensure some kind of lifelong learning and that's exactly what you need in this world that's changing so quickly

Lars Strannegård: uh and everything you thought was true just a week or two ago uh has proven not to be so you have to be able to shift your mindset to to to not sort of um get stuck in the models that you used to operate by

Nicola Tangen: what are the challenges with you with you in a way educating um a very elite group of people

Nicola Tangen: I mean this is in a way going to make them even more Elite and even less in touch with the rest of the world one could argue

Lars Strannegård: one could uh argue that then you could say that's completely wrong because they're not going to be uh Out Of Tune with the rest of the world

Lars Strannegård: it's actually a way of of making them understand the world much better for instance empathy is one of those uh ideas

Lars Strannegård: and and I mean saying that future decision makers um should not have that type of mindset that's really to sort of give in you know if you're in uh to to education

Lars Strannegård: and if you're educating the Future Leaders and decision makers you of course uh uh I mean you have to be ambitious you have to uh make them understand the world even more uh and and turn them into much more of human beings

Lars Strannegård: because if you don't uh they won't be able to to actually uh do do the job that they have to do cuz they're they have responsibility to make the world better

Lars Strannegård: uh to sort of at least uh you know our ambition is that they should leave a better World Behind than the ones that they found

Nicola Tangen: can you measure the results of this

Nicola Tangen: I mean it's not like you have a scale on empathy that you can measure people uh it takes a long time to see whether they are more successful leaders and so on

Nicola Tangen: are there is there any way you can can measure that do you have like a engagement survey survey

Lars Strannegård: yes we do

Lars Strannegård: I think it's really hard and also especially when you're in into Expressions because it's sort of hard to sort of you know measure how much how much empathy uh and how much learning did you get from going to the lou and see the Mona Lisa how many kilos of empathy did you gain from that right

Lars Strannegård: how many kilos of empathy did you gain from that right

Lars Strannegård: it's hard

Lars Strannegård: um but we can do it through different types of service uh a lot of self- appreciation uh on you know how much more free are you actually uh that's one way uh of doing it

Lars Strannegård: but it doesn't really do the job uh

Lars Strannegård: but we more use Pro ceas in a way to say that okay so our school has never been more selective than it is now

Lars Strannegård: our students get the jobs that they want uh and they get it uh really really quickly

Lars Strannegård: the um uh uh you know the The Faculty members who apply to to our job openings are more than ever uh the number of corporations that sponsor us has increased too

Lars Strannegård: so basically all our kpis uh are increasing

Lars Strannegård: and uh thereby I mean I'm at an academic institution so you shouldn't uh confuse correlation with causality

Lars Strannegård: but we do know that it's it's a lot of correlation since we started with all this all the kpis are pointing in the right direction but we can't really show and prove the causality

Nicola Tangen: well I have to say if I were young again I'll uh I would have applied

Lars Strannegård: great but we have Executive Education you know that's very good to hear it's very good to hear

Nicola Tangen: it's very good to hear

Lars Strannegård: no it's uh it's super appealing

Lars Strannegård: you come in there and it's just so vibrant and beautiful and stimulating and and cool and fun

Lars Strannegård: it's actually fun because we've been named in the financial times uh uh it's I mean it's they write about us as if we're an Art institution yeah

Lars Strannegård: uh in in the national press we're considered to be one of the most or actually the most uh interesting Art institution in the country which is you know it's a bit over the top I guess to say that

Lars Strannegård: which is you know it's a bit over the top I guess to say that

Nicola Tangen: any other school copying you

Lars Strannegård: I think I mean lots of schools have art uh but very few have integrated it to the extent that we have

Lars Strannegård: I mean very few have classrooms that are art installations in their own rights

Nicola Tangen: how can you afford it

Lars Strannegård: we get donations uh we constantly need that and it's I think that's part of the uh of the model too

Lars Strannegård: we want to engage uh you know people who believe uh in this in in the knowledge form actually and and who who um who understand the importance of Art

Lars Strannegård: and and what's also interesting that basically all our big donations uh have always started with art

Lars Strannegård: so we say for fun sometimes it all starts with art

Nicola Tangen: changing um t a bit here um

Nicola Tangen: what are the qualities needed by tomorrow's leaders

Lars Strannegård: I think they are exactly free being fact based being reflective being self-aware uh being empathetic and culturally literate

Nicola Tangen: and has this changed like

Lars Strannegård: yes I I definitely think so

Lars Strannegård: I mean in the old uh days uh you you I mean you studied and then the type of knowledge that you had served uh you know your your your you know what you wanted to do quite well

Lars Strannegård: it doesn't anymore because you really have to be able to shift perspective constantly constantly seek for new facts constantly reflect and constantly try to put yourself into somebody else's clothes

Lars Strannegård: I think that's it's it's always been important but it's even more important now because it's uh I mean the the the uh the situation in the world is changing so drastically and so quickly

Nicola Tangen: are there all the disciplines that you need to integrate into this

Nicola Tangen: I mean why why don't you study why don't they have to study psychology

Nicola Tangen: I think that would be great too

Lars Strannegård: and I mean we do have that

Lars Strannegård: I mean a lot of our organizational Theory courses are uh you know you got social psychology Etc into that

Lars Strannegård: and then of course uh I mean you can't study everything either right

Lars Strannegård: so so uh well you say that

Lars Strannegård: but no but I say that you have to try to make uh the years that you have at your disposal for a bachelor or a master's program you have to work like crazy in order to make those years as knowledge intensive as possible

Lars Strannegård: and I don't think all uh educational institutions uh actually you know try hard enough to make their environments knowledge intensive

Lars Strannegård: but they sort of settle for the academic knowledge they settle for what Aristotle called epistem um the type of knowledge that you can study and then uh have an exam on

Nicola Tangen: where do languages come into play here

Lars Strannegård: I I we are now uh discussing to to sort of introduce uh languages

Lars Strannegård: it's uh especially if you're a European Business School uh we used to have much more Focus

Lars Strannegård: I mean in the old days when the school started it was German then it was Russian uh and then we have you know English and and German and Spanish Etc

Lars Strannegård: but now uh English or broken English has become the lingua franaqua uh of the world yeah

Lars Strannegård: and I think it's time actually to uh uh I mean if you're European business school if you if you speak other languages and especially the European ones it's really a way of understanding a particular culture

Lars Strannegård: one of the most prominent alumni from our school is Ola shanos he's the CEO of Daimler uh Mercedes and his German is absolutely perfect

Lars Strannegård: he would never have gotten that job I mean in the German automotive industry uh if he didn't speak German

Lars Strannegård: so it's a way of opening your career possibilities that for one thing but even more than that it's a way of understanding culture understanding history uh and sort of understanding um why a particular culture and Country looks the way it does and how it actually operates

Lars Strannegård: there is no real uh sort of true understanding uh of a culture if you don't speak uh that language

Nicola Tangen: do you think this is also necessary for Europe to fight back against the rest of the world

Lars Strannegård: I do think so yes

Lars Strannegård: I think it's a uh I mean fight back is one way of phrasing it uh but also sort of collaborating even more in in in within Europe I think

Nicola Tangen: and and then and why do we need more cooperation within Europe

Lars Strannegård: because it's a I mean we are culturally and and sort of historically we are tightly knitted together uh and uh still we are in peace

Lars Strannegård: and uh still we are in peace and I think that's something we have to work really hard to keep

Lars Strannegård: and if we if we sort of uh join forces even more I think we of course will become much more powerful really

Lars Strannegård: so I also think it's uh uh right now it's sort of uh we don't we don't have too much self-confidence being European

Lars Strannegård: uh we constantly hear about uh how how Europe is lagging behind and and Asia and the US are uh and China especially uh are are are moving especially in in in artificial intelligence and Technology are moving so quickly and we're just being left behind

Lars Strannegård: and I don't think it's a good idea to just sit back and sort of feel defeated uh

Lars Strannegård: but instead try to see what we have uh try to learn languages uh each other's languages to see ourselves as more of an entity um than we are and then realize that that there are lots of things that are pretty good here too

Lars Strannegård: if you just take Sweden as an example I mean it's a highly Innovative place it's a um um it's a country where the financial markets are working quite well we have lots of of private private Equity 20 times more per capita uh than Germany

Lars Strannegård: uh and sort of you know to to just boost the the the um self-confidence because I think many other countries like China like the the Americans are pretty good uh when it comes to self-confidence while Europeans aren't

Nicola Tangen: what do you think are the traits that you are seeing in great leaders do you do you spend time observing leaders yeah

Lars Strannegård: sure absolutely

Nicola Tangen: and when you abstract it down what do they have in common

Nicola Tangen: why are why are the why are the best ones very good

Lars Strannegård: well I think it's uh I mean if you were really condensing it to a couple of terms I would say authenticity yeah

Lars Strannegård: I mean that you actually believe that what they're saying is uh what they think and that's not the same thing uh as not lying not uh right

Lars Strannegård: uh but actually being authentic in what you want to do uh and that people feel that this is that it matters to you that you're not playing a game that you're not sort of politically correct whatever that means uh but sort of that it's your true self speaking than being there

Lars Strannegård: I think that's uh absolutely key

Lars Strannegård: I also think uh I mean being able to create a sense of meaning you know to make people uh understand and feel that they're part of something that's greater than themselves uh that they're building something

Lars Strannegård: you know that old anecdote where this man is sitting and banging on a stone and then somebody ask walks by and ask what are you doing

Lars Strannegård: well I'm banging on a stone

Lars Strannegård: uh and then and then he asks another one doing the same thing and then he says well I'm building a cathedral right

Lars Strannegård: so those I mean it's an old uh sort of saying but I think it's it's a lot of Truth in that that you see what you're actually part of um

Lars Strannegård: and then I think energy too right

Lars Strannegård: I mean to to be in a place where things happen where uh where you feel that you're part of something uh that's moving you know people love being part of that

Lars Strannegård: because I mean I think we've all experienced workplaces or or uh different types of um places where you just feel that the energy level is slow

Nicola Tangen: where does energy come from

Lars Strannegård: well energy comes from I mean it's I mean from inspiration yeah you know

Lars Strannegård: so so different leaders find their energy in different ways uh of course

Lars Strannegård: but I think if you if you uh if you do not feel energetic that means that you don't I mean love is perhaps a a strong word in this sense but I think it's uh it's actually good if you don't love what you're doing if you don't believe in what you're doing yourself you will not get that type of energy

Nicola Tangen: so you have Malcolm Gladwell on here and he said uh you get energy from doing what you love so he ties in ties in

Nicola Tangen: so he ties in ties in

Nicola Tangen: now is there such a thing as a Swedish uh Leadership Model or or Scandinavian

Lars Strannegård: yes I do think so even though it's hard to speak of those uh you know in in terms of uh you know cultural specificities

Lars Strannegård: but for sure I mean it's something um in in the uh a hierarchical idea uh that it is flat that you actually listen to to uh what others are saying that you don't have the sort of traditional standing on a mountain and pointing in One Direction uh but being close to others

Lars Strannegård: it's actually a quite quite an an academic model in the sense in in the old sense of the word where Plato was walking uh together with his disciples

Lars Strannegård: and what was important to him was that everybody uh uh you know every every argument counts it doesn't matter seniority doesn't does doesn't matter uh and uh it's only the argument in itself that matters

Lars Strannegård: so that's what Plato said that's s of the true academic model

Lars Strannegård: so so seniority or or or or titles and things like that shouldn't matter and that's uh I think that could be something that's quite visible uh in in Swedish leadership

Lars Strannegård: flat hieres listening to people very informal uh that it is possible for anybody to actually call anybody

Lars Strannegård: uh and I think that sort of we see it actually a lot of lot of uh uh German students especially come to our school because this is uh how they've perceived these the the uh the Swedish model

Lars Strannegård: it's highly attractive

Lars Strannegård: I mean if you want to start a company for instance it creates sort of an entrepreneurial spirit I think

Nicola Tangen: but tough for them to go back and work in a large German company though afterwards

Lars Strannegård: yes that's true

Lars Strannegård: and we want them to stay of course of course

Nicola Tangen: um now art in a way is um is storytelling in a way right

Nicola Tangen: you abstract and express uh a story

Nicola Tangen: and uh I in a way think that storytelling is just um more and more key

Nicola Tangen: and you see it when you go to conferences and so on the people who own the room are the people who manag to translate uh something into into a story that you remember yeah

Nicola Tangen: how are you working on that topic in your school

Lars Strannegård: well I think uh in everything that we do because stories are actually just a way of of gathering uh and arranging meaning in a way

Lars Strannegård: so I mean bringing together things that like in our case ambition right

Lars Strannegård: say I mean you can you can do two things you can either say come to our school study uh and and and learn to how to get a job where you can actually support yourself and perhaps be rich in the long run that's one way of uh uh of of sort of speaking about uh what we're doing

Lars Strannegård: the other way is to say come to our school uh Be Inspired learn to sort of change the world uh learn that it's that this is a place where you can actually develop uh it's it's it's where we have higher Ambitions uh of different kind and it's also a a a place where you can really feel that uh the future can look very different

Lars Strannegård: so I think it's basically everything is telling stories right

Lars Strannegård: I mean everything that you're exposed to every every aesthetic expression is actually a story

Lars Strannegård: I think it's also even more important in this very digital world uh to work with physical artifacts of different kind that you can feel stuff and be part uh of something

Lars Strannegård: so um I mean the the the the the short answer is that I don't think any organization can be successful if it doesn't uh communicate what it does in a meaningful way

Nicola Tangen: now you um wrote a book called Kens and um

Nicola Tangen: you there talk about uh the importance of hiring people who do not have a business background

Nicola Tangen: and indeed in my previous life I worked with historians and people who had stud studied Theology and all these kind of things and they were the best investors and the best financial brains I've seen

Nicola Tangen: so should one actually study business

Lars Strannegård: well I think you you uh I I say that you you in the book I say that you uh uh should study business but that's not enough

Lars Strannegård: you have to sort of open your mind as well right

Lars Strannegård: I mean I love the business school that I'm heading of course and I think the subjects we need are extremely important because they are ways of understanding the world

Lars Strannegård: um but it's it's all about again really sort of expanding the blinders that we have

Lars Strannegård: to to uh I mean every type of education it's specialized right

Lars Strannegård: so it's a bit like watching the sky uh through a straw uh and you need to have many straws uh nowadays in order to understand the world that we're living in

Nicola Tangen: in America they have many straws yeah

Lars Strannegård: they do

Nicola Tangen: when you study liberal arts

Lars Strannegård: yes but liberal arts education programs are not doing uh all that well right

Nicola Tangen: yeah okay

Nicola Tangen: um now another thing you talk about is Sport

Nicola Tangen: and you have a some type of Sport Institute or what do you call it

Lars Strannegård: yeah we do

Lars Strannegård: we have a center for sport and business exactly

Lars Strannegård: uh with with which we cooperate as um you know noras Bank investment management we are doing some fantastic projects together with them very very exciting in terms of sport psychology and and how we build resilience and and grit and the ability to cope with um uh you know with the tough times

Nicola Tangen: now just where does Sport come into education and business for you

Lars Strannegård: I think it's basically uh a good education program or institution recognizes that that education is not just about the mind but it's about mind body and soul so it's sort of three things going on at the same time

Lars Strannegård: so it's sort of three things going on at the same time

Lars Strannegård: uh and also the fact that machines they do not have any bodies they they they are very they're lousy at sports

Lars Strannegård: I mean uh chat GPT you will you will you will beat it uh on the racetrack anytime right

Lars Strannegård: so uh it says it doesn't have bodies but humans do

Lars Strannegård: and actually developing uh sort of you know your your your bodily uh functions in a way is something that's really important

Lars Strannegård: I mean we know uh you know your cognitive skills develop uh quite a bit through physical exercise right

Lars Strannegård: it's a connection

Lars Strannegård: uh and of course all these things that that that that are about the human body uh that you were describing yeah you know the the um sports psychology uh Etc all these things actually matter because human beings consist of Flesh and Blood

Lars Strannegård: um and they they have a a mind which is remarkable but and and also sort of an interest in things uh that are Beyond science too and in a way uh you know poetry art uh religion Etc right

Lars Strannegård: so these are things just just viewing the human being for everything that it is I think that's what an educational institution should do

Lars Strannegård: great schools do that

Lars Strannegård: I mean you couldn't imagine Oxford or or or or Cambridge without the rowing or uh some of the some of the US uh universities without their teams and their

Nicola Tangen: and what can what can Business Leaders learn from great athletes

Lars Strannegård: I think they can learn a lot of course

Lars Strannegård: uh I mean it's the big I mean they can learn so much everything you know in in terms of motivation and focus and uh uh and sort of uh all the all the things that sport psychology has got

Lars Strannegård: uh there is a huge difference though it's that it's more clear usually in sports what the goal is exactly what it is that you are to do right

Lars Strannegård: I mean if you you know that you are to jump uh you know over this bar that's right here so the the uh it's very the mission is is very uh clear

Lars Strannegård: it's not as clear being a a business leader because things can change quite a bit

Nicola Tangen: Yeah talking about change AI how will AI CH education or already how does it already change it

Lars Strannegård: it already has I mean in every way uh but fundamentally it um I mean we know that cognitively uh you know the artificial intelligence actually outperforms us quite a bit and

Lars Strannegård: um so so uh it it it really changes and all over the world University or educators are now trying to understand and think hard about how do we actually secure uh learning

Lars Strannegård: can we do the same same type of tests that we used to do

Lars Strannegård: can we do final can we can we do take-home exams

Lars Strannegård: do we need to uh you know pull out the plug and not let them use their computers

Lars Strannegård: should we only do handwriting should we only do oral exams Etc

Lars Strannegård: but it's kind of futile all this because fundamentally uh I mean generative Ai and AI is here to stay

Lars Strannegård: you know our students don't even use Google anymore right

Lars Strannegård: they use generative AI yeah um

Lars Strannegård: and and uh uh I think it's it poses much more fundamental questions that are about knowledge in itself

Lars Strannegård: so what is the University to do when when it's got a student for three years uh or sometimes even five years

Lars Strannegård: you know what should you learn what is the what's the the purpose of it all uh and and and what should you learn

Lars Strannegård: I think uh fundamentally it's about the division of labor between machines and human beings

Lars Strannegård: because machines are great at being machines you know we can't beat them in being machines

Lars Strannegård: but they are not human and they can't beat us in Being Human because they are art it's it's artificial intelligence it's not human intelligence

Lars Strannegård: so I think educational institutions should really help uh students to develop their human intelligence

Lars Strannegård: and in that is of course included to understand how AI operates and be sort of uh able to to to interact uh with AI

Lars Strannegård: but you but uh but then also developing your human skills so developing your empathy uh developing your sense making your understanding of the world your contextualization capabilities uh your your uh your language skills

Lars Strannegård: uh all these things that that that uh um you know AI is is doing but not doing to the same extent

Lars Strannegård: so it's basically trying to be how do we become you know even better humans as the machines are are are becoming better at what they're doing

Nicola Tangen: do you think it's going to be more of an advantage to be an extrovert in the future

Nicola Tangen: do you think the Nerds will be eaten by AI

Lars Strannegård: I I I don't ever think that anything will eat anything else first of all

Lars Strannegård: I think that's sort of a view of the world where uh you know one thing sort of um uh completely wipes out something else

Lars Strannegård: I think it's always a matter of a lay hearing you know things are are being on being put on top of of each other

Lars Strannegård: having said that yes I think it's um uh the way that you need to be a nerd in the future needs to change perhaps in ways well I suppose to uh to be a a a little bit more um uh sort of trying to understand the systems in themselves uh and not sort of operate within the systems

Lars Strannegård: I suppose to uh to be a a a little bit more um uh sort of trying to understand the systems in themselves uh and not sort of operate within the systems

Lars Strannegård: so being understanding how the general sort of EOS system uh Works

Nicola Tangen: what's the future for phds

Lars Strannegård: well I think the the uh uh the future for phds is is is bright actually

Nicola Tangen: uh you say that just because it's the most profitable part of your business

Lars Strannegård: it's actually the less or the least profitable because we have to educate them for so long

Lars Strannegård: no but I think it's uh it's not you know because that's if you think that PhD is all about specializing in one particular subject that then it's going to be gone

Lars Strannegård: but it's not because a PhD education is actually uh uh about learning how to process large materials uh big big um um uh you know masses of data analyzing things putting them into New Perspectives uh also trying to express yourself both in writing and in uh or and orally

Lars Strannegård: uh so I think you know to have a a a researchers mindset uh because that's what you train PhD is not about a PhD dissertation but it's about uh training and individual and that individual will be needed uh even more I think in the future

Nicola Tangen: L Runing off with some personal things um

Nicola Tangen: what's the piece of art that's made the most impression on you

Lars Strannegård: I think it's a it's a mark Rothco painting uh which is I think it's sort of uh Magic is is perhaps the wrong word but uh I mean it's just paint just colors uh it's uh it's a bit um blurry at the edges and somehow uh you know it just creates this emotion which is absolutely impossible to explain why

Lars Strannegård: I think it's a it's a mark Rothco painting uh which is I think it's sort of uh Magic is is perhaps the wrong word but uh I mean it's just paint just colors uh it's uh it's a bit um blurry at the edges and somehow uh you know it just creates this emotion which is absolutely impossible to explain why

Lars Strannegård: and I think it's you know to to to to be able to create that type of of feeling and I I once actually just cried in front of those of of one of those paintings

Nicola Tangen: there's a book about people crying in front

Lars Strannegård: yeah exactly

Lars Strannegård: so there's a book on that so I felt just like you know I'm just I'm just I'm just an ordinary guy right

Lars Strannegård: because this happens to everyone

Lars Strannegård: it's interesting you know that it's just it it's this emotional connection that's very hard to um uh analyze and and to give a rational explanation too

Lars Strannegård: so I think that's one of the powers of art really

Lars Strannegård: and I think it's I mean if you if you watch good films uh I mean just going into a cinema when the lights go down and you're just being pushed and or rather pulled into this world that you haven't been in or reading a book

Nicola Tangen: what do you read

Lars Strannegård: well right now I'm actually I've been reading uh a couple of Classics

Lars Strannegård: so I've been reading Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness

Lars Strannegård: absolutely terrible book uh or in the that it's scary it's fantastically written uh the language is amazing

Lars Strannegård: it's fantastically written uh the language is amazing

Lars Strannegård: uh and you're just being sort of pulled in to um to uh the Belgian Congo a long time ago into the river

Nicola Tangen: into the river exactly

Lars Strannegård: so you know the language you just feel that you're there

Lars Strannegård: it's just that's what great cultural expressions can do again move you into other times and other spaces and make you see the world in New Perspective

Lars Strannegård: it's it's something that we need so much of uh in the time that we're living in now

Nicola Tangen: if you were not an educator what would you do

Lars Strannegård: I wouldn't mind running a cultural institution actually

Nicola Tangen: right well that's that that's an educator as well right

Lars Strannegård: that's true that's true

Nicola Tangen: well I'm sure you do you'll do well

Nicola Tangen: now um lastly what advice do you hang have for young people

Lars Strannegård: I think uh to really try to expose your yourself to things that you don't understand that you're not used to and really uh try to push yourself into uh you know out of the box or out of your comfort zone or whatever you want to call it but doing things that you wouldn't expect yourself to do

Nicola Tangen: great piece of advice

Nicola Tangen: um big big thanks for for being here and uh please look out for my application for your executive program

Lars Strannegård: thanks so much for having me

Nicola Tangen: great thank you