节目介绍：用积分实现优惠旅行

Rosie Garin: I'm Rosie Garin and you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.

Rosie Garin: 我是Rosie Garin，您正在收听《Wire Cutter Show》。

Christine: Hey there, it's Christine. This week on the show, we're talking about how to get the best deals on travel.

Christine: 大家好，我是Christine。本周节目中，我们将讨论如何获得最划算的旅行优惠。

Christine: Seeing new places can be incredibly fun, mind-expanding, and fulfilling.

Christine: 探索新地方可以带来难以置信的乐趣，开阔眼界，并令人满足。

Christine: It can also be really, really expensive.

Christine: 但它也可能非常非常昂贵。

Christine: So, we're talking about how to do it all for less.

Christine: 所以，我们正在讨论如何以更少的花费实现这一切。

Christine: Earlier this week, we dropped an episode with Elaine Glusac, who writes the New York Times column The Frugal Traveler, about her best tips for getting great deals on travel.

Christine: 本周早些时候，我们发布了一期节目，邀请了为《纽约时报》撰写“节俭旅行者”专栏的Elaine Glusac，分享她获得旅行优惠的最佳秘诀。

Christine: To round out that conversation, we're going to drop a bonus episode today about some of the best ways to use credit card points to augment a travel budget.

Christine: 为了补充那次对话，我们今天将发布一期特别节目，讨论如何利用信用卡积分来增加旅行预算的一些最佳方法。

Christine: Wire Cutter does not cover credit cards anymore, at least we used to.

Christine: 《Wire Cutter》现在不再涵盖信用卡内容了，至少我们以前是涵盖的。

Christine: We do cover a variety of travel gear, and we have a ton of advice on how to shop for gear in a smart way.

Christine: 我们确实涵盖了各种旅行装备，并提供了大量关于如何明智购物的建议。

Christine: But when it comes to a travel budget, the flights and hotels are what really add up.

Christine: 但谈到旅行预算，机票和酒店才是真正的大头。

Christine: And credit card rewards points can play a really big role in making travel more affordable.

Christine: 信用卡奖励积分在使旅行更经济实惠方面可以发挥非常重要的作用。

Christine: This kind of travel hacking, using credit card points for flights and hotels, can seem a little complicated and maybe even problematic if it lands you in debt.

Christine: 这种旅行黑客 (Travel hacking: 利用信用卡积分、里程等策略，以最低成本实现旅行)行为，即使用信用卡积分预订机票和酒店，可能看起来有点复杂，如果导致你负债，甚至可能带来问题。

Christine: It's a financial decision with inherent risks.

Christine: 这是一项具有内在风险的金融决策。

专家介绍：The Points Guy 创始人 Brian Kelly

Christine: To help demystify this topic, we're inviting an expert on the show who knows a lot about it, Brian Kelly.

Christine: 为了帮助大家揭开这个话题的神秘面纱，我们邀请了一位对这方面非常了解的专家，Brian Kelly。

Christine: You may know Kelly by the moniker he shares with the popular website he founded, The Points Guy.

Christine: 您可能通过他创立的知名网站The Points Guy（积分达人：一个专注于信用卡积分和旅行奖励的网站）而认识Kelly。

Christine: Kelly remains part owner of that business, though today the majority stake belongs to media company Red Ventures.

Christine: Kelly仍然是该业务的部分所有者，尽管如今大部分股权属于媒体公司Red Ventures（红风投：一家大型媒体和营销公司）。

Christine: Since it started in 2010, The Points Guy website has become an authority on how to access and leverage loyalty programs, credit card and airline miles, and of course, points for travel.

Christine: 自2010年成立以来，The Points Guy网站已成为获取和利用忠诚度计划、信用卡和航空里程以及旅行积分方面的权威。

Christine: Brian published a book back in February called How to Win at Travel with tons of tips and tricks on navigating the world of points.

Christine: Brian在二月份出版了一本书，名为《How to Win at Travel》（如何赢得旅行），书中包含了大量关于驾驭积分世界的技巧和窍门。

Christine: In a minute, Rosie is going to talk with Brian about how to use credit card rewards programs most effectively and the pitfalls to avoid.

Christine: 稍后，Rosie将与Brian讨论如何最有效地利用信用卡奖励计划以及需要避免的陷阱。

Christine: We'll be right back.

Christine: 我们马上回来。

听众互动环节

Christine: Before we get back into the episode, I want to ask you for a quick favor.

Christine: 在我们回到节目之前，我想请大家帮个小忙。

Christine: You've heard us say this before, but the holiday season is sort of Wire Cutter's Super Bowl.

Christine: 你们以前听我们说过，但假日季对《Wire Cutter》来说就像是“超级碗”。

Christine: The team goes hard to help you figure out the best ways to host, cook, gift, and more.

Christine: 团队会全力以赴，帮助你们找出最佳的待客、烹饪、送礼等方式。

Christine: We love it and we love hearing from you, our listeners.

Christine: 我们热爱这项工作，也喜欢听到听众们的声音。

Christine: This year, we're planning an extra special gift giving miniseries and I want to know what you need help with when it comes to gifting.

Christine: 今年，我们正在策划一个特别的送礼迷你系列，我想知道在送礼方面你们需要什么帮助。

Christine: Is there someone in your life that's really hard to please?

Christine: 你的生活中是否有人特别难取悦？

Christine: Are you wondering what the youths are looking for this holiday season?

Christine: 你是否好奇这个假日季的年轻人都在寻找什么礼物？

Christine: You and me both.

Christine: 你我都是。

Christine: Are you struggling with gift giving etiquette?

Christine: 你是否在送礼礼仪方面感到困惑？

Christine: Are you wanting to gift with the constraints of a budget?

Christine: 你是否希望在预算限制下送礼？

Christine: We want to hear from you.

Christine: 我们想听听你的想法。

Christine: So, record a voice memo on your phone and tell us your first name, where you're calling from, and what your gifting question is.

Christine: 所以，请用手机录制一段语音备忘录，告诉我们你的名字、你来自哪里以及你的送礼问题是什么。

Christine: If it's about someone in particular, give us as much detail as you can.

Christine: 如果是关于某个特定的人，请尽可能提供详细信息。

Christine: That'll really help us.

Christine: 这会真的帮助到我们。

Christine: Then, email it to us at thewirecuttershow@wirecutter.com.

Christine: 然后，将其发送到thewirecuttershow@wirecutter.com。

Christine: Again, you can send your voice memo to the wire cutter showcutter.com and your question may wind up getting answered on the show.

Christine: 再次提醒，你可以将语音备忘录发送到thewirecuttershow@wirecutter.com，你的问题可能会在节目中得到解答。

Christine: Thank you so much.

Christine: 非常感谢。

Brian Kelly 的积分之旅起源

Christine: Welcome back, Brian. Welcome to the show. So happy to have you here.

Christine: Brian，欢迎回来。欢迎来到节目。很高兴你能来。

Brian Kelly: Thanks for having me.

Brian Kelly: 谢谢邀请。

Christine: So, we're going to focus this episode on a discussion of basics for maximizing points for travel and how to do that with everyday purchases.

Christine: 好的，本期节目我们将重点讨论如何最大化日常消费的旅行积分基础知识。

Christine: Before we get into that, many listeners are probably familiar with the name of the site, but maybe not the person behind the Oz behind the curtain.

Christine: 在此之前，许多听众可能熟悉这个网站的名字，但可能不了解幕后的“奥兹巫师”本人。

Christine: So talk to me about your origin and I remember hearing that it had something to do with a family trip to the Caribbean, but give me the give me give me the the story.

Christine: 那么，请告诉我你的起源故事，我记得听说这与一次加勒比家庭旅行有关，请给我讲讲这个故事吧。

Brian Kelly: So there is a point sky pin.

Brian Kelly: 嗯，有一个积分天际线。

Brian Kelly: Yes, it's me.

Brian Kelly: 是的，就是我。

Brian Kelly: So I started The Points Guy 15 years ago, but my real points origin story was in 1995.

Brian Kelly: 我在15年前创立了The Points Guy，但我真正的积分起源故事是在1995年。

Brian Kelly: I was always the computer wiz in my house.

Brian Kelly: 我从小就是家里的电脑高手。

Brian Kelly: I was the AOL (America Online: 美国在线，早期互联网服务提供商) hacker.

Brian Kelly: 我是AOL黑客。

Brian Kelly: I had Prodigy (Prodigy: 早期在线服务及互联网服务提供商) internet, you know, dialup early 90s.

Brian Kelly: 我用的是Prodigy互联网，你知道，那是90年代初的拨号上网 (Dialup: 通过电话线连接互联网的技术)。

Brian Kelly: And my dad had gotten a job for a startup.

Brian Kelly: 我父亲当时在一家初创公司找到了一份工作。

Brian Kelly: And so he started working from home as an executive and he had to book his own travel.

Brian Kelly: 所以他开始在家做高管，需要自己预订旅行。

Brian Kelly: So my first job really was booking his travel on Travelocity (Travelocity: 一家在线旅游服务公司).

Brian Kelly: 所以我真正的第一份工作是在Travelocity上为他预订旅行。

Brian Kelly: I was a little travel agent.

Brian Kelly: 我当时就像个小小的旅行社代理。

Brian Kelly: I was just obsessed with the internet.

Brian Kelly: 我当时对互联网非常着迷。

Brian Kelly: And one day he said he he had all these frequent flyer miles, but they were split up between US Air (US Air: 美国航空公司，已并入美国航空) and American (American Airlines: 美国航空).

Brian Kelly: 有一天他说他有很多常旅客里程 (Frequent flyer miles: 航空公司奖励计划的积分)，但这些里程分散在US Air和American Airlines两家航空公司。

Brian Kelly: So he's like, "We can't all go somewhere because it's two different programs."

Brian Kelly: 所以他说：“我们都不能去某个地方，因为这是两个不同的计划。”

Brian Kelly: And I was 12 years old.

Brian Kelly: 我当时12岁。

Brian Kelly: And I said, "Give me a beat."

Brian Kelly: 我说：“给我点时间。”

Brian Kelly: And I called the airlines.

Brian Kelly: 然后我给航空公司打了电话。

Brian Kelly: And here's a tip, everyone, and this still works in 2025 is be nice to phone agents.

Brian Kelly: 给大家一个建议，这一点在2025年仍然适用：对电话客服人员要友善。

Brian Kelly: The phone agents have a lot of power.

Brian Kelly: 电话客服人员有很大的权力。

Brian Kelly: I figured out a way and I'm one of four kids.

Brian Kelly: 我找到了一个方法，我家有四个孩子。

Brian Kelly: So, my parents, we grew up very, my parents are humbled.

Brian Kelly: 我的父母，我们成长环境很简朴，他们很谦逊。

Brian Kelly: They were not jet setters, you know, but I always had an urge to travel the world.

Brian Kelly: 他们不是那种四处旅行的人，但我一直渴望环游世界。

Brian Kelly: So, I was able to use all of our points.

Brian Kelly: 所以，我设法用光了我们所有的积分。

Brian Kelly: In 1996, we went to Grand Cayman and we took this trip for peanuts and then that became a yearly thing in the '9s.

Brian Kelly: 1996年，我们去了大开曼岛，那次旅行几乎没花什么钱，然后这在90年代成了每年都会做的事。

Brian Kelly: So my dad and I were doing the points game because it's a game and it's still a game to this day.

Brian Kelly: 所以我爸爸和我一直在玩积分游戏，因为它确实是个游戏，直到今天依然如此。

Brian Kelly: The game has changed fundamentally, but the game can still be won for sure.

Brian Kelly: 游戏规则已经发生了根本性的变化，但这个游戏仍然可以赢，这是肯定的。

Christine: It's amazing they were open to letting you fly.

Christine: 令人惊讶的是，他们居然允许你来处理机票。

Brian Kelly: At age 12, metaphorically at age 12, we laugh.

Brian Kelly: 12岁，比喻意义上的12岁，我们都笑了。

Brian Kelly: We're like, "What?"

Brian Kelly: 我们当时想：“什么？”

Brian Kelly: But I would say to any parent out there, give your kids ownership of trips.

Brian Kelly: 但我想对所有父母说，让你的孩子参与旅行的决策。

Brian Kelly: I think it teaches so many skills.

Brian Kelly: 我认为这能教会他们很多技能。

Brian Kelly: Planning, researching on the internet, understanding fake reviews, real reviews, and getting their input.

Brian Kelly: 比如规划、在网上研究、辨别虚假评论和真实评论，并听取他们的意见。

Brian Kelly: And I think kids get a lot more bought into a trip when they get to plan some of the itinerary.

Brian Kelly: 我认为当孩子们能规划部分行程时，他们会对旅行更有投入感。

Brian Kelly: So I highly recommend that.

Brian Kelly: 所以我强烈推荐这样做。

Brian Kelly: Maybe not the whole trip like I did, but I think it's good for for kids to do that.

Brian Kelly: 也许不是像我那样规划整个行程，但我认为这对孩子们有好处。

信用卡公司如何通过积分赚钱

Christine: Back to points, I think most people know that points are something that they can earn from using credit cards.

Christine: 回到积分话题，我想大多数人都知道积分是他们通过使用信用卡可以赚取的东西。

Christine: Whether it's a card from a bank, whether it's a co-branded card between an airline and a bank.

Christine: 无论是银行发行的卡，还是航空公司与银行合作的联名卡。

Christine: How does it work?

Christine: 它是如何运作的？

Christine: Why do credit cards offer points?

Christine: 为什么信用卡会提供积分？

Christine: 这对它们有什么好处？

Christine: What's in it for them?

Christine: 这不是骗局吗？

Christine: How is it not a scam?

Brian Kelly: So, here's the skinny on how credit card companies make money.

Brian Kelly: 那么，信用卡公司是如何赚钱的，我来简要说明一下。

Brian Kelly: And trust me, they're making a lot of it.

Brian Kelly: 相信我，他们赚了很多钱。

Brian Kelly: So, never feel bad about getting your portion back.

Brian Kelly: 所以，拿到你的那部分回馈时，永远不要觉得不好意思。

Brian Kelly: Why do credit cards offer points?

Brian Kelly: 为什么信用卡要提供积分呢？

Brian Kelly: The big reason why is in the US interchange.

Brian Kelly: 在美国，一个主要原因是交换费 (Interchange fee: 信用卡发卡行向商户银行收取的费用)。

Brian Kelly: So every time you use a credit card, grocery, restaurant, that vendor is paying about 2% in fees to the credit card processor which then gets most of it gets passed on to the bank.

Brian Kelly: 所以每次你使用信用卡，无论是在超市还是餐厅，商家都要向信用卡处理商支付大约2%的费用，其中大部分会转交给银行。

Brian Kelly: The bank then kicks you back a portion of that about 1% or so in the form of rewards.

Brian Kelly: 银行随后会将这笔费用的一部分，大约1%左右，以奖励的形式返还给你。

Brian Kelly: The banks know that people are motivated by points and there's a huge arms race that we are in the thick of AMX (American Express: 美国运通，一家金融服务公司) versus Chase (JPMorgan Chase & Co.: 摩根大通，一家金融服务公司) versus City (Citibank: 花旗银行，一家金融服务公司) versus Capital One (Capital One Financial Corporation: 第一资本金融公司，一家银行控股公司) because there's so much competition.

Brian Kelly: 银行知道人们会被积分激励，而且我们正处于美国运通、摩根大通、花旗银行和第一资本金融公司之间激烈的竞争中，因为竞争非常激烈。

Brian Kelly: They all have to compete to give you more value back.

Brian Kelly: 他们都必须竞争，给你提供更多的价值回馈。

Brian Kelly: Now, they may lose money on the transaction, but they want you as a customer and spending every day because they're earning on all of your purchases.

Brian Kelly: 当然，他们可能在单笔交易上亏钱，但他们希望你成为他们的客户，每天都消费，因为他们能从你所有的购买中获利。

Brian Kelly: Plus, they're getting annual fees and plus inevitably, a lot of people are going to carry a balance at one point or another, right?

Brian Kelly: 此外，他们还收取年费，而且不可避免地，很多人迟早会产生透支余额，对吧？

Brian Kelly: So, they're making a lot of money.

Brian Kelly: 所以，他们赚了很多钱。

Brian Kelly: You can get your value back.

Brian Kelly: 你可以拿回你的价值。

Brian Kelly: Avoid interest.

Brian Kelly: 避免利息。

Brian Kelly: Avoid late fees.

Brian Kelly: 避免滞纳金。

Brian Kelly: You can win by getting your value of the points.

Brian Kelly: 通过获得积分的价值，你就能赢。

Brian Kelly: And then most importantly once you have those points redeem them for absolute maximum value.

Brian Kelly: 最重要的是，一旦你有了这些积分，就以最大的价值兑换它们。

Brian Kelly: The other biggest factor is your credit is an asset.

Brian Kelly: 另一个最大的因素是你的信用是一种资产。

Brian Kelly: And by getting credit cards and let me be ultra clear here you have to spend wisely and pay them off in full.

Brian Kelly: 通过办理信用卡——在这里我要非常明确地指出，你必须明智消费并全额还款。

Brian Kelly: If you are going to get into credit card debt if you're carrying balances do not get travel rewards credit cards.

Brian Kelly: 如果你会陷入信用卡债务，如果你有透支余额，就不要办理旅行奖励信用卡。

Brian Kelly: The APRs (Annual Percentage Rate: 年利率，借贷资金的年化成本) will eat you alive.

Brian Kelly: 那些年利率会让你吃不消。

Brian Kelly: The value, you know, what you're paying in interest will negate all the value of those points and more.

Brian Kelly: 你所支付的利息将抵消所有积分的价值，甚至更多。

Brian Kelly: So, if you're in a situation where you're in debt, paying high APR, my recommendations today are not geared towards you.

Brian Kelly: 所以，如果你处于负债、支付高年利率的情况，我今天的建议不适合你。

避免信用卡积分陷阱：高年利率与消费要求

Christine: And just, can you explain really quickly what APR is?

Christine: 那么，你能很快解释一下什么是年利率吗？

Brian Kelly: Yeah, annual percentage rate is the percent you're going to pay for borrowing money from a bank.

Brian Kelly: 是的，年利率就是你向银行借钱所需要支付的年化百分比。

Brian Kelly: And on credit cards, it's really high.

Brian Kelly: 在信用卡方面，它非常高。

Brian Kelly: It may be over 30%.

Brian Kelly: 可能超过30%。

Brian Kelly: Now, when we're talking about points and miles that you're getting, these are worth 1 to two cents a piece.

Brian Kelly: 现在，当我们谈论你获得的积分和里程时，它们每点价值1到2美分。

Brian Kelly: So really there is no way where you pay interest on balances and that the value of your points are going to make sense.

Brian Kelly: 所以，如果你支付透支利息，你的积分价值就毫无意义可言。

Brian Kelly: And if you are carrying a balance, no shame, but get a credit card that has 0% APR for 18 months.

Brian Kelly: 如果你有透支余额，这没什么可耻的，但请办一张18个月零年利率的信用卡。

Brian Kelly: Neutralize that debt before you can truly take full advantage of the points ecosystem with credit cards.

Brian Kelly: 在你能真正充分利用信用卡积分生态系统之前，先消除那笔债务。

Christine: Are there other pitfalls that you warn people about to keep their eyes open for before they get in the game?

Christine: 在人们开始玩这个游戏之前，你还会提醒他们注意哪些陷阱吗？

Brian Kelly: I would say start slowly.

Brian Kelly: 我会说，慢慢开始。

Brian Kelly: So, another thing to consider is the signup bonus.

Brian Kelly: 那么，另一个需要考虑的是注册奖励。

Brian Kelly: This is the initial dopamine hit that the credit card companies want you to get.

Brian Kelly: 这是信用卡公司希望你获得的最初的“多巴胺冲击”。

Brian Kelly: It jump starts your balance.

Brian Kelly: 它能迅速提高你的积分余额。

Brian Kelly: What they'll say is if you're eligible, the bank's going to give you a bunch of miles or points as a welcome offer.

Brian Kelly: 他们会说，如果你符合条件，银行会给你一大笔里程或积分作为欢迎优惠。

Brian Kelly: And there's usually a spend requirement attached.

Brian Kelly: 通常还会附带一个消费要求。

Brian Kelly: So, $3,000 within 3 months.

Brian Kelly: 比如，3个月内消费3000美元。

Brian Kelly: But there's some nuance that some people make mistakes on, including the annual fee for the card does not count towards suspend, right?

Brian Kelly: 但有些细微之处人们会犯错，包括信用卡的年费不计入消费要求，对吧？

Brian Kelly: And also, the clock starts ticking not when you activate the card.

Brian Kelly: 此外，计时不是从你激活卡片时开始的。

Brian Kelly: This is a big one.

Brian Kelly: 这一点很重要。

Brian Kelly: It's when you get approved.

Brian Kelly: 而是从你获批时开始。

Brian Kelly: So, if you get approved and you're on vacation, you come back 2 weeks later.

Brian Kelly: 所以，如果你获批时正在度假，两周后才回来。

Brian Kelly: So many people will think, "Oh, it's, you know, when I start spending on it."

Brian Kelly: 很多人会想：“哦，那是，你知道，当我开始用它消费的时候。”

Brian Kelly: Wrong.

Brian Kelly: 错了。

Brian Kelly: So, I always recommend you overspend beyond what you think you've hit just to be safe.

Brian Kelly: 所以，我总是建议你超出你认为已达到的消费额度，以确保万无一失。

Brian Kelly: But understand there are small nuances.

Brian Kelly: 但要明白，这里面有很多小细节。

Brian Kelly: There's always a cost.

Brian Kelly: 总是会有成本。

Brian Kelly: I always recommend everyone who gets into this start with one card, pay it off, get in the groove.

Brian Kelly: 我总是建议所有涉足此领域的人，先从一张卡开始，还清欠款，掌握窍门。

Brian Kelly: But these signup bonuses are real money and this is what gets people really hooked into this game.

Brian Kelly: 但这些注册奖励是真金白银，这也是让人们真正沉迷于这个游戏的原因。

Christine: So you have to when thinking about a sign on bonus, you have to think about offsetting the cost, the annual fee of the card, number one.

Christine: 所以当你考虑注册奖励时，你首先要考虑抵消成本，也就是卡的年费。

Christine: And number two, think about you might get instantly approved for a card.

Christine: 第二，你可能会立即获批一张卡。

Christine: Yep.

Christine: 是的。

Christine: Try and start spending toward that minimum spend as soon as possible and not waiting until you

Christine: 尽快开始消费以达到最低消费要求，而不是等到你

Christine: correct open the mail.

Christine: 对，打开邮件后才开始。

Christine: And many credit card companies will give you a digital card so you can begin using it right away.

Christine: 许多信用卡公司会给你一张数字卡，这样你就可以立即开始使用。

信用卡积分的三种类型：现金返还、联名卡奖励与可转让积分

Christine: You I know in in your book talk about points as an illiquid asset.

Christine: 我知道你在书中提到积分是一种非流动资产 (Illiquid asset: 难以快速变现的资产)。

Christine: So that means that points are part of your personal finance package.

Christine: 这意味着积分是你个人财务组合的一部分。

Christine: When you look at your personal finances, you should consider it as currency.

Christine: 当你审视个人财务时，应该将其视为一种货币。

Brian Kelly: Absolutely.

Brian Kelly: 绝对是。

Brian Kelly: And when you're thinking about rewards, there are three flavors.

Brian Kelly: 当你考虑奖励时，有三种主要类型。

Brian Kelly: In my opinion, the main three points currencies or rewards currencies are number one, cash back.

Brian Kelly: 在我看来，主要的积分货币或奖励货币有三种：第一是现金返还 (Cash back: 信用卡消费后按比例返还现金的奖励方式)。

Brian Kelly: So that's pretty simple.

Brian Kelly: 这非常简单。

Brian Kelly: It's a percentage back of every dollar you spend.

Brian Kelly: 它是你每消费一美元所获得的百分比回馈。

Brian Kelly: In general, I would say the average is about 1 and a.5% cash back.

Brian Kelly: 一般来说，平均大约是1.5%的现金返还。

Brian Kelly: That's a solid return.

Brian Kelly: 这是一个不错的收益。

Christine: And who is that good for?

Christine: 那这适合什么样的人呢？

Brian Kelly: I would say this is good for people who have no interest in traveling, who might have really tight budgets, are really just focused on their finances, putting money away into an emergency fund.

Brian Kelly: 我会说这适合那些对旅行不感兴趣、预算非常紧张、只专注于理财并将钱存入应急基金的人。

Brian Kelly: Like that's you should at least be getting cash back.

Brian Kelly: 比如，你至少应该获得现金返还。

Brian Kelly: That is the baseline.

Brian Kelly: 这是基本底线。

Brian Kelly: So the second type of currency is co-brand rewards.

Brian Kelly: 第二种货币是联名卡奖励 (Co-brand rewards: 与特定品牌（如航空公司、酒店）合作发行的信用卡所提供的奖励)。

Brian Kelly: And this is your airline credit card, your hotel credit card.

Brian Kelly: 这就是你的航空公司信用卡、你的酒店信用卡。

Brian Kelly: Whenever you spend, you're getting points directly deposited into a single airline or hotel.

Brian Kelly: 每当你消费时，积分会直接存入某一家航空公司或酒店的账户。

Brian Kelly: The upside to this is that you can get a lot of perks.

Brian Kelly: 这样做的好处是你可以获得很多额外福利。

Brian Kelly: Free check bags, priority boarding, sweet upgrades, etc.

Brian Kelly: 比如免费托运行李、优先登机、超值升舱等等。

Brian Kelly: So, you're only earning one specific airline currency, but you're getting some other perks that might have real value that might make your travel smoother, that might save you a lot of money.

Brian Kelly: 所以，你虽然只赚取一种特定的航空公司积分，但你获得了其他可能具有实际价值的福利，这些福利可能让你的旅行更顺畅，也可能为你节省很多钱。

Brian Kelly: You know, having a hotel credit card that gets your family breakfast, right?

Brian Kelly: 比如，拥有一张酒店信用卡，能让你的家人免费享用早餐，对吧？

Christine: And is this good for people who are brand loyal?

Christine: 这适合品牌忠诚度高的人吗？

Brian Kelly: You need to do the math.

Brian Kelly: 你需要自己算一下。

Brian Kelly: So, if you check bags and fly Delta (Delta Air Lines: 达美航空，美国主要航空公司之一) all the time, you know that having one of their co-brand cards gets you a free check bag for you and I think eight companions.

Brian Kelly: 比如，如果你经常托运行李并乘坐达美航空，你就会知道拥有一张他们的联名卡，可以为你和另外八位同行者免费托运一件行李。

Brian Kelly: So, the check bags these days can easily be 40 bucks each.

Brian Kelly: 如今，托运行李的费用很容易就达到每件40美元。

Brian Kelly: So, think about it.

Brian Kelly: 所以想想看。

Brian Kelly: One round trip, you're paying 150 bucks for a card, but you're saving 400 a trip, right?

Brian Kelly: 一次往返旅行，你为一张卡支付150美元，但每次旅行却能节省400美元，对吧？

Brian Kelly: So, that's where you have to do the math because the third currency and the one that I'm the most bullish on, transferable points from credit card companies.

Brian Kelly: 所以，你需要自己计算一下，因为第三种货币，也是我最看好的，是信用卡公司的可转让积分 (Transferable points: 银行信用卡积分，可转移至多家航空公司或酒店的常旅客计划)。

Brian Kelly: And this has been the biggest trend.

Brian Kelly: 这也是最大的趋势。

Brian Kelly: So instead of earning a single airline mile or a cash back point, you earn with the bank and then the bank gives you a couple really great ways to redeem those points.

Brian Kelly: 所以，你不是赚取单一的航空里程或现金返还积分，而是从银行赚取积分，然后银行会提供几种非常棒的方式来兑换这些积分。

Brian Kelly: Number one, they allow you to use it like cash to book any flight or hotel, usually at about 1 cent or 1.5 cents.

Brian Kelly: 第一，他们允许你像现金一样使用它来预订任何航班或酒店，通常每点价值1到1.5美分。

Brian Kelly: But the real special sauce in the transferable points is transferring them to different airlines and hotels.

Brian Kelly: 但可转让积分真正的独特之处在于，可以将其转让给不同的航空公司和酒店。

Brian Kelly: So a lot of the cards often they run transfer bonuses.

Brian Kelly: 许多信用卡经常会提供转让奖励。

Brian Kelly: So, this allows you instead of just banking in one single airline program like a co-brand card does, you can bank into a mega program that allows you to transfer to tons of different options.

Brian Kelly: 所以，这让你不必像联名卡那样只将积分存入一个单一的航空公司计划，而是可以存入一个大型计划，允许你转让到各种不同的选择中。

Brian Kelly: Most points experts will say put most of your spend on a transferable point card or a couple of them because it opens up a world of opportunities.

Brian Kelly: 大多数积分专家会建议你把大部分消费放在一张或几张可转让积分卡上，因为它能开启无限的机会。

最大化积分奖励的策略

Christine: So, you can earn rewards from groceries, dining out, you can even earn rewards by paying your utilities.

Christine: 那么，你可以通过购买杂货、外出就餐，甚至支付水电费来赚取奖励。

Christine: What is your practical advice, Brian, in terms of maximizing those rewards?

Christine: Brian，在最大化这些奖励方面，你有什么实用建议？

Brian Kelly: I want everyone to take out their monthly budget, look at the major categories, the dining, rent, groceries, gas, you know, how much you spending.

Brian Kelly: 我希望每个人都拿出自己的月度预算，看看主要的开支类别，比如餐饮、房租、杂货、汽油，你知道，你花了多少钱。

Brian Kelly: What are your top categories and and where are you spending the most money?

Brian Kelly: 你的主要消费类别是什么，你在哪里花的钱最多？

Brian Kelly: Yes, you may want to just go out and just start applying like crazy, but no, have a strategy.

Brian Kelly: 是的，你可能想直接出去疯狂申请信用卡，但不，要有策略。

Brian Kelly: Do some research on each bank's rules for which cards to get.

Brian Kelly: 研究一下每家银行关于申请哪种卡的规则。

Brian Kelly: And then really the biggest thing is look at what you spend money on and finding the credit card that has the highest multiplier in that category.

Brian Kelly: 然后，最重要的是，看看你把钱花在哪里，并找到在该类别中积分倍数最高的信用卡。

Christine: Okay, so what is the best credit card for dining?

Christine: 好的，那么哪张信用卡最适合餐饮消费呢？

Christine: So there's a lot of them out there cuz dining is a popular category.

Christine: 市面上有很多这样的卡，因为餐饮是一个很受欢迎的类别。

Christine: And you know then the other thing is the annual fees on these cards.

Christine: 然后，另一件事就是这些卡的年费。

Christine: So a lot of the cards that have higher annual fees have higher category bonuses, but you have to take into account, okay, I'm spending more to get that.

Christine: 很多年费较高的卡有更高的类别奖励，但你必须考虑到，为了获得这些奖励，我是否要付出更多。

Christine: So it's really a holistic vision of looking at not just the earning of points.

Christine: 所以，这实际上需要一个全面的视角，不仅仅是看积分的赚取。

Christine: So how much how many of these points do I earn?

Christine: 那么，我能赚取多少积分？

Christine: How can I use them and then how much is this costing me?

Christine: 我如何使用它们？以及这会花费我多少钱？

Christine: So what I'm hearing is in every aspect of playing the points game.

Christine: 所以我听起来，在玩积分游戏的每个方面。

Christine: The most important thing it seems to me is understanding what your personal finances are, what your goals are, not just goals for travel, but your your financial goals and how you actually spend your money.

Christine: 对我来说，最重要的是了解你的个人财务状况、你的目标，不仅仅是旅行目标，还包括你的财务目标以及你实际如何花钱。

Christine: So therefore, you can figure out how to leverage different cards based on what your actual reality is.

Christine: 这样，你才能根据你的实际情况，找出如何利用不同的信用卡。

Brian Kelly: Correct.

Brian Kelly: 正确。

Christine: So when you have a a card like an AMX or a Chase where you have rewards, you have a bank of them, are you sitting down and assessing when you're planning for a trip?

Christine: 那么，当你拥有一张像美国运通或摩根大通这样的卡，并且积累了大量奖励积分时，你在计划旅行时会坐下来评估吗？

Christine: Let me think about where I want to go.

Christine: 我想去哪里？

Christine: Let me think about what airline I want to fly and then transfer the points from that bank to whatever airline or hotel you're you're trying to use or what what is

Christine: 我想乘坐哪家航空公司？然后把积分从那家银行转到你想要使用的航空公司或酒店，或者是什么？

Brian Kelly: The joy the joy of the transferable points programs is that you can bank with confidence knowing well I don't know if next summer I want to go to Italy or I want to go on safari or what if we

Brian Kelly: 可转让积分计划的乐趣在于，你可以自信地积累积分，因为你可能不知道明年夏天想去意大利，还是想去非洲大草原旅行，或者万一我们

Brian Kelly: because no matter where you want to go you generally have so many options

Brian Kelly: 因为无论你想去哪里，通常都有很多选择。

Brian Kelly: okay

Brian Kelly: 好的。

Brian Kelly: that you can make it work

Brian Kelly: 你总能找到办法实现。

Brian Kelly: and one of my best tips these these days is acrew valuable points, these transferable points and let the deals tell you where you go on vacation.

Brian Kelly: 我现在最好的建议之一是积累有价值的、可转让的积分，然后让优惠来告诉你去哪里度假。

Brian Kelly: You know, you may have bucket list trips you or you want to go to Italy.

Brian Kelly: 你知道，你可能有心愿清单上的旅行，或者你想去意大利。

Brian Kelly: And I know a lot of people want to do Florida over the holidays, but

Brian Kelly: 我知道很多人想在假期去佛罗里达，但是

Brian Kelly: airline programs change so much.

Brian Kelly: 航空公司的计划变化太大了。

Brian Kelly: I generally just don't want you to put all your miles in one single airline because they devalue year over year.

Brian Kelly: 我通常不希望你把所有的里程都放在一家航空公司，因为它们每年都在贬值。

Brian Kelly: Meaning that what once was a 90,000 point free night at your favorite resort overnight jumped to 130,000 points a night.

Brian Kelly: 这意味着，你最喜欢的度假村曾经9万积分的免费住宿，一夜之间就涨到了每晚13万积分。

Brian Kelly: If you put all your points, you know, in a credit card company, even if one of their transfer partners or a couple change the rules, you then have other options.

Brian Kelly: 如果你把所有的积分都放在一家信用卡公司，即使他们的一两个转让伙伴改变了规则，你仍然有其他选择。

何时值得购买积分：套利机会与隐藏优势

Christine: When is it worth buying points?

Christine: 什么时候值得购买积分？

Brian Kelly: So, buying points is really interesting.

Brian Kelly: 购买积分确实很有趣。

Brian Kelly: It's definitely an 套利游戏 (Arbitrage game: 指通过买卖同类商品在不同市场或不同形式之间的差价来获取利润的策略) and you need to know how to redeem them.

Brian Kelly: 这绝对是一种套利游戏，你需要知道如何兑换它们。

Brian Kelly: So, if you don't have an exact redemption in mind or know how you're going to redeem those points, don't buy them.

Brian Kelly: 所以，如果你没有明确的兑换目标，或者不知道如何兑换这些积分，就不要购买。

Brian Kelly: Buying points is only for people if you've done the math and you know the redemption.

Brian Kelly: 只有当你已经计算过并且了解兑换方式时，才适合购买积分。

Christine: But

Christine: 但是

Christine: give an examp Yeah.

Christine: 举个例子，好的。

Brian Kelly: So, Hilton (Hilton Worldwide Holdings Inc.: 希尔顿全球酒店集团，一家全球性酒店管理公司) Hilton allows you to buy points pretty cheap.

Brian Kelly: 希尔顿酒店允许你以相当便宜的价格购买积分。

Brian Kelly: And Hilton has this new beautiful Waldorf Astoria (Waldorf Astoria: 华尔道夫酒店，希尔顿旗下的奢华酒店品牌) in Costa Rica that just opened.

Brian Kelly: 希尔顿在哥斯达黎加新开了一家美丽的华尔道夫酒店。

Brian Kelly: It's about $2,000 a night.

Brian Kelly: 每晚大约2000美元。

Christine: Wow.

Christine: 哇。

Brian Kelly: But it's about 120,000 points a night.

Brian Kelly: 但每晚大约需要12万积分。

Brian Kelly: So, what that means is you can buy 120,000 points at a half a cent a piece for $600.

Brian Kelly: 所以，这意味着你可以以每点半美分的价格购买12万积分，总共600美元。

Brian Kelly: So, you can spend 2,000 to book direct or you can buy $600 to get a free night via points.

Brian Kelly: 所以，你可以直接花费2000美元预订，也可以花费600美元购买积分来获得一晚免费住宿。

Christine: Okay?

Christine: 明白吗？

Brian Kelly: And Hilton gives the fifth night free when redeeming for points, not when paying.

Brian Kelly: 而且希尔顿在用积分兑换时会赠送第五晚免费住宿，而用现金支付则没有。

Brian Kelly: So, this is where a lot of smart people I know say, "Why would I ever pay directly when I can buy points for a third of the price and then get the fifth knife free?"

Brian Kelly: 所以，我认识的很多聪明人都会说：“既然我可以用三分之一的价格购买积分，然后还能获得第五晚免费住宿，那我为什么要直接支付呢？”

Brian Kelly: Bam.

Brian Kelly: 砰！

Brian Kelly: That's when you just won.

Brian Kelly: 那你就赢了。

Brian Kelly: Air France (Air France: 法国航空，一家法国航空公司).

Brian Kelly: 法国航空也一样。

Brian Kelly: It's the same.

Brian Kelly: 这是一样的。

Brian Kelly: Flying Blue (Flying Blue: 法航荷航集团的常旅客计划) is an amazing program.

Brian Kelly: Flying Blue是一个很棒的计划。

Brian Kelly: 60,000 points one way business class New York to Paris.

Brian Kelly: 纽约到巴黎的单程商务舱需要6万积分。

Brian Kelly: That's a $3,000 ticket.

Brian Kelly: 那是一张3000美元的机票。

Brian Kelly: Air France will let you buy points at around 1.5 cents a piece.

Brian Kelly: 法国航空会让你以每点大约1.5美分的价格购买积分。

Brian Kelly: So 60,000 points is 900 bucks.

Brian Kelly: 所以6万积分就是900美元。

Brian Kelly: So would you rather pay 3,000 to the airline or would you rather buy points and spend 900?

Brian Kelly: 那么你是愿意向航空公司支付3000美元，还是愿意购买积分并花费900美元呢？

Christine: Right?

Christine: 对吧？

Christine: And of course Hilton and the Flying Blue program, these are just examples of the types of strategies you can employ when you're looking to buy points and then use those points to buy reward flights or hotel nights.

Christine: 当然，希尔顿和Flying Blue计划只是你可以采用的策略类型的一些例子，当你考虑购买积分，然后用这些积分购买奖励航班或酒店住宿时。

Christine: and ultimately pay less.

Christine: 最终支付更少的费用。

Brian Kelly: Not only that, what I want people to understand is the benefit to buying points, especially when there's by miles promotions, is most 奖励机票 (Award tickets: 完全使用常旅客里程/积分预订的机票), most hotel reservations are fully refundable when you use your points.

Brian Kelly: 不仅如此，我希望人们明白，购买积分的好处，尤其是在有里程促销活动时，是大多数奖励机票、大多数酒店预订在你使用积分时都是完全可退款的。

Brian Kelly: Award tickets are when you transfer points to an airlines frequent flyer program and you book the flight as an award ticket completely using miles.

Brian Kelly: 奖励机票是指你将积分转到航空公司的常旅客计划中，然后完全使用里程预订航班作为奖励机票。

Brian Kelly: That is refundable.

Brian Kelly: 那是可退款的。

Brian Kelly: This is something most people don't realize.

Brian Kelly: 这是大多数人没有意识到的。

Brian Kelly: When you're calculating, well, should I redeem miles or should I pay for the ticket when you redeem miles, it is a refundable ticket.

Brian Kelly: 当你计算是应该兑换里程还是支付机票费用时，如果你兑换里程，它是一张可退款机票。

Brian Kelly: So, don't compare it to what basic economy costs because when you redeem your airline miles for an award ticket, that's a full fair ticket.

Brian Kelly: 所以，不要把它和基础经济舱的费用相比，因为当你用航空里程兑换奖励机票时，那是一张全价票。

Brian Kelly: Meaning, up until 1 minute before departure, you can cancel, get all your miles back for free.

Brian Kelly: 也就是说，在起飞前1分钟，你都可以取消，免费取回所有里程。

Christine: That is incred.

Christine: 这太不可思议了。

Christine: I had no idea.

Christine: 我完全不知道。

Brian Kelly: Yes.

Brian Kelly: 是的。

Brian Kelly: And I take this a step further.

Brian Kelly: 我更进一步。

Brian Kelly: Having points is like an insurance policy cuz guess what?

Brian Kelly: 拥有积分就像一份保险单，因为你知道吗？

Brian Kelly: when airlines start delaying and canceling my flight, I'm not waiting in the two-hour line.

Brian Kelly: 当航空公司开始延误或取消我的航班时，我不会排两个小时的队。

Brian Kelly: I'm on my phone instantly booking backup reservations on different airlines.

Brian Kelly: 我会立即用手机预订不同航空公司的备用航班。

Brian Kelly: So, if my one airline can't get me out, I'm walking to the other airline cuz I have award ticket for 2 hours later.

Brian Kelly: 所以，如果我的原航空公司无法让我出发，我就走到另一家航空公司，因为我预订了两个小时后的奖励机票。

Brian Kelly: If my original flight ends up going out, I click one button and get all my miles back for the other reservations.

Brian Kelly: 如果我的原航班最终起飞了，我只需点击一个按钮，就能拿回其他预订的所有里程。

Brian Kelly: You know, these points are very valuable.

Brian Kelly: 你知道，这些积分非常有价值。

Christine: That's a hack.

Christine: 这是一个绝妙的技巧。

Brian Kelly: And one other tip, airlines charge a lot for frequent flyer mile tickets.

Brian Kelly: 还有另一个小贴士，航空公司对常旅客里程机票收取高额费用。

Brian Kelly: You may want to just get something booked.

Brian Kelly: 你可能想先预订好。

Brian Kelly: Your honeymoon, you're not going to risk waiting till last minute, but you pay a premium, keep checking, and if the price goes down, most programs will let you cancel and rebook at the lower rate and get your miles back.

Brian Kelly: 你的蜜月旅行，你不会冒着等到最后一刻的风险，但你会支付溢价，持续查看，如果价格下降，大多数计划会让你取消并以更低的价格重新预订，并取回你的里程。

Brian Kelly: With the airlines bullying us around, I want people to have this information where they can, you know,

Brian Kelly: 航空公司对我们颐指气使，我希望人们掌握这些信息，这样他们就能，你知道，

Christine: fight back.

Christine: 反击。

Christine: Fight back and and get their money off the table.

Christine: 反击并拿回他们的钱。

结语

Christine: Brian Kelly is the founder of The Points Guy and author of the book How to Win at Travel.

Christine: Brian Kelly是The Points Guy的创始人，也是《How to Win at Travel》一书的作者。

Christine: Brian, thank you so much for joining us.

Christine: Brian，非常感谢你加入我们。

Brian Kelly: Thanks for having me. Safe travels.

Brian Kelly: 谢谢邀请。旅途愉快。

Christine: That's it for us.

Christine: 本期节目就到这里。

Christine: Till next week.

Christine: 下周再见。

Christine: If you like the show, we'd love you to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

Christine: 如果你喜欢本节目，欢迎在任何你收听播客的平台订阅我们。

Christine: Thank you so much for listening.

Christine: 非常感谢大家的收听。

Christine: We really appreciate it.

Christine: 我们非常感激。

Christine: Peace.

Christine: 再见。