[Speaker 1]: this is a story about china and about to crack down on its christians。 [Speaker 1]: it's a story that's left family's fractuirt。 [Speaker 1]: my father is still impressed and drawn attention from the highest of places。 [Speaker 2]: it is another gentleman of pastor would like to see me it out。 [Speaker 2]: i want to bring his name， [Speaker 1]: but it's a tale about one detained pastor， [Speaker 4]: hlo lalaya， [Speaker 1]: whose footsteps we have followed。 [Speaker 1]: so we are gonna hedden to the site of his arrest。 [Speaker 1]: and to the place where he was detained， [Speaker 1]: we hit to ask about one inmates as region story is the remarkable tale of defiance and deliverance。 [Speaker 1]: the most unlikely journey to freedom now told on camera for the very first time， [Speaker 1]: we're not starting this journey in china itself。 [Speaker 1]: instead， [Speaker 1]: this tae begins in a quiet american suburb。 [Speaker 1]: it's pretty early in the morning。 [Speaker 1]: we're in a suburb b of washington， [Speaker 1]: DC， [Speaker 1]: and we're gh to meet a man at the centre of a really pretty remarkable story。 [Speaker 1]: he's a guy who up until just a few weeks ago was in a chinese jail。 [Speaker 0]: 没有没有 this home。 [Speaker 1]: this family are at the center of a saga that can feel barely believable。 [Speaker 1]: i， [Speaker 1]: this is past jjim mrr， [Speaker 1]: also known as as rogin。 [Speaker 1]: just three weeks ago， [Speaker 1]: he was a prisoner charged with crimes connected to the christian church。 [Speaker 1]: he runs， [Speaker 5]: say， [Speaker 5]: hi baby。 [Speaker 0]: yes， [Speaker 1]: today against all the odds。 [Speaker 1]: he re's his daughter's home in america is hi baby。 [Speaker 1]: an ordinary family seen， [Speaker 1]: 你 had had 直直看 with exextraordinary significance。 [Speaker 1]: it is fletingly rare for china to release a so called prisoner of conscience， [Speaker 1]: even more rare for them to feel able to talk。 [Speaker 1]: we are the first journalists to sit down with him in person。 [Speaker 1]: this is the first time he's told his story to a camera。 [Speaker 1]: 别看奶夫别别追我， [Speaker 1]: 别追王二蛋， [Speaker 1]: 我这样是小年年， [Speaker 1]: 你先坐下。 [Speaker 1]: what he has to say， [Speaker 1]: matters， [Speaker 1]: because this is the context 赶紧出界， [Speaker 1]: 我打幺幺零了。 [Speaker 1]: wider crackdown on christians across china raids and tensions have targeted underground churches。 [Speaker 1]: these movements tend to worship online and don't want to submit to strict state controls。 [Speaker 1]: i are officially banned parthe funconti。 [Speaker 0]: man。 [Speaker 1]: this is a story we followed for months to the sites of key churches and clumed wns。 [Speaker 1]: it's a story that has led us to pass a as rgym。 [Speaker 1]: this is him in happier， [Speaker 1]: healthier times， [Speaker 4]: 抚养孩子付出的。 [Speaker 1]: he's the founder and leader of zyent church 是 an underground protestant movement， [Speaker 1]: 家庭家族 long the subject of official attention 第二章一到三结束 in october。 [Speaker 1]: 今天我们 he was arrested。 [Speaker 1]: unjailed。 [Speaker 1]: does that one will be vertic？ [Speaker 1]: yeah， [Speaker 1]: we first met his family earlier this year back in may。 [Speaker 1]: then his daughter grace could only tell her children about the grandfather they had never met。 [Speaker 1]: do you know which one's mommy started？ [Speaker 1]: this was our first introduction to him on his church。 [Speaker 3]: he was a very kind person， [Speaker 3]: but also a very complex person。 [Speaker 3]: i suppose when when you peell back just a warm， [Speaker 3]: like you get a deeply intellectual deeply like serious type of a thought leader。 [Speaker 3]: and he caare so much about his faith， [Speaker 3]: he caare so much about china and the people around him。 [Speaker 1]: she was then heavily pregnant on morning。 [Speaker 1]: the things that he'd missed。 [Speaker 3]: we were able to tell him about the baby right before the detention， [Speaker 3]: i wevery really grateful ful that but of this seven， [Speaker 3]: seven， [Speaker 3]: eight month that i've been pregnant， [Speaker 3]: um as the baby grows inside me， [Speaker 3]: my father is still in prison， [Speaker 3]: and he serves as a role model for us， [Speaker 3]: all of it， [Speaker 3]: how to live our faith。

[Speaker 1]: we wanted to investigate what happened to pass a gym。 [Speaker 1]: and so just a month before his sudden release， [Speaker 1]: we followed in his footsteps all the way to the southern chinese city of beihai。 [Speaker 1]: it's a layed back holiday in recent years。 [Speaker 1]: jim moved his church here to escape the ire of beijing。 [Speaker 1]: it's a place where he thought it could be safe in the end。 [Speaker 1]: this place proved him wrong。 [Speaker 1]: we're nervous， [Speaker 1]: and we have reason to be。 [Speaker 1]: we are the first journalists attempting to visit the place where， [Speaker 1]: as region was arrested at this moment， [Speaker 1]: it is a highly sensitive thing to attempt。 [Speaker 1]: we know that the apartment where a ast or gym was living and working is really heavily surveiled now， [Speaker 1]: but his community have invited us up。 [Speaker 1]: they want us to go up and take a look， [Speaker 1]: but we're going to have to keep as lower profile as possible。 [Speaker 1]: so we're going to leave our big cameras behind。 [Speaker 1]: we're going to work just on these small ones。 [Speaker 1]: we're going to wear at mks。 [Speaker 1]: so we're going to get in just try and avoid being detected for as long as we come。 [Speaker 1]: it doesn't take as long to find the place。 [Speaker 1]: jie lived here with his elderly mother in law。 [Speaker 1]: this is the compound okfather。 [Speaker 1]: i cannot time up there。 [Speaker 1]: okay， [Speaker 1]: we've been told a family friend will meet at the gate。 [Speaker 1]: alright。 [Speaker 1]: so so we ggonna had den。 [Speaker 1]: we already guys， [Speaker 1]: we keep our cameras down。 [Speaker 1]: he know a doctor ten。 [Speaker 1]: we walk in in silence。 [Speaker 1]: he gestures that the lifts here are bugged。 [Speaker 6]: 这是积木的家， [Speaker 1]: 就是那个 inside doctor chen shows us around ok， [Speaker 1]: 积木木的 watch is yeah。 [Speaker 1]: ok。 [Speaker 1]: the place is peaceful。 [Speaker 1]: no signs of the uphehe will it saw the other person here is jan's mother and no。 [Speaker 1]: so here is this this postagen jim， [Speaker 1]: this is your daughter。 [Speaker 1]: she doesn't want to be interviewed that she does want to show us have family and happlier。 [Speaker 1]: oh， [Speaker 1]: across the whole， [Speaker 1]: a study and library。 [Speaker 1]: oh， [Speaker 1]: wow， [Speaker 1]: there's a real proper library， [Speaker 1]: a space to meet。 [Speaker 1]: and to think 对对对， [Speaker 1]: doctor chen was here when the police came。 [Speaker 6]: 就在这栋楼这栋楼抓的就是呃当天晚上的警察是在负一楼和一楼很多。 [Speaker 6]: 然后呢嗯就是照着名单抓的， [Speaker 6]: 然后就都在家， [Speaker 6]: 然后呢， [Speaker 6]: 然后把油把他领到这个房间， [Speaker 6]: 有的有在里边有很多自己就是印的那些书都封， [Speaker 6]: 嗯， [Speaker 6]: 后来就全部收走了。 [Speaker 1]: he was also taken， [Speaker 1]: but released the next day that target， [Speaker 1]: he says was clear。 [Speaker 6]: 呃， [Speaker 6]: 问请问一下像金木石相关的一些积木师做的什么？ [Speaker 6]: 金木石， [Speaker 6]: 他有没有嗯问那个敬拜有没有二维码， [Speaker 6]: 有没有输钱？ [Speaker 6]: 真的， [Speaker 6]: 耶稣基督是唯一的投的话， [Speaker 6]: 这是是一个较较困难的。 [Speaker 1]: they have taken a significant risk by initing iting。 [Speaker 1]: here。 [Speaker 1]: they insisited ted was something they wanted for their safety and ours。 [Speaker 1]: we stay only fiffifty minutes。 [Speaker 1]: we felt the tension they live with。 [Speaker 1]: we had one more stop in this town。 [Speaker 1]: the prison we're jin and his colleagues were held。

[Speaker 1]: there were eighteen of them here when we visited， [Speaker 1]: it was hard to know what was happening inside。 [Speaker 1]: we wanted at least to ask。 [Speaker 1]: hello， [Speaker 1]: we we are foreigournalists sts。 [Speaker 1]: we we hit to ask about one inmaate 干嘛？ [Speaker 1]: yeah， [Speaker 1]: we had it to ask where the poster， [Speaker 1]: as regenin is in this detention centre。 [Speaker 5]: 下班了， [Speaker 5]: 下班了， [Speaker 5]: 休息了 is his family worried about his health。 [Speaker 1]: we want to ask how he's doing。 [Speaker 0]: we were waived away nmberwiiser back in america。

[Speaker 1]: we now have a first hand account of what it was like， [Speaker 1]: a former chinese inmade talking about their time in prison is incredibly rare， [Speaker 1]: but as region is free， [Speaker 1]: and he wants to tell the world what happened。 [Speaker 4]: 看守所的情况呢， [Speaker 4]: 当然是从来没有经历过的事啊， [Speaker 4]: 就是非常非常艰难了。 [Speaker 4]: 我们一般将近三十个人睡在一个大窗户， [Speaker 4]: 小板凳里面待着。 [Speaker 4]: 我所有的呃就是时间全部都规定好了， [Speaker 4]: 你走路也得举手才能走路， [Speaker 4]: 不举手， [Speaker 4]: 走路的话就只受到惩罚， [Speaker 4]: 有很多而已。 [Speaker 1]: he was ultimately charged with illegal business operations。 [Speaker 1]: he says he was under constant pressure to confess claims。 [Speaker 1]: we've put to the authorities and that have gone unanswered。 [Speaker 4]: pano 就是要收服， [Speaker 4]: 呃， [Speaker 4]: 但是你得考虑一下你的同事们， [Speaker 4]: 真的这次抓的人里边有一些人是有家的人。 [Speaker 4]: 哎， [Speaker 4]: 你这么不认罪啊， [Speaker 4]: 牵连到他们。 [Speaker 4]: 哎呦， [Speaker 4]: 我里边真是特别的就是动摇啊， [Speaker 4]: 将近一个月没见啊， [Speaker 4]: 我的律师， [Speaker 4]: 然后就马上给家人写个信， [Speaker 4]: 就是第一个呃， [Speaker 4]: 我不会认罪。 [Speaker 4]: 第二个啊， [Speaker 4]: 我不会自杀。

[Speaker 1]: can you just talk me through what happened when that least ase came？ [Speaker 1]: did it would play out？ [Speaker 4]: 突然就管教来教往吉， [Speaker 4]: 明日把案件出来。 [Speaker 4]: 我以为是平常的什么审讯呢？ [Speaker 4]: 所以出去你就收拾你的东西。 [Speaker 4]: 那个警车经过了我的小区的时候， [Speaker 4]: 他也没停下来， [Speaker 4]: 哎呦， [Speaker 4]: 就说不是回家呀。 [Speaker 4]: 然后我就哎到了那个呃高铁站， [Speaker 4]: 一个车厢全都是包了。 [Speaker 4]: 就是他们都是警察， [Speaker 4]: 有至少二三十个人嘛， [Speaker 4]: 都是便异， [Speaker 4]: 有有一个负责人， [Speaker 4]: 就就是呃金姆斯啊， [Speaker 4]: 你知道你去哪儿吗？ [Speaker 4]: 我说我不知道， [Speaker 4]: 可能到隐秘的地方吧， [Speaker 4]: 他就说你往好处想吧。 [Speaker 4]: 我说我不敢想。 [Speaker 1]: in fact， [Speaker 1]: he was being taken to the airport told that while his crimes had been established， [Speaker 1]: he would not face prosecution。 [Speaker 1]: he boarded a plane unflu to america。 [Speaker 4]: 就是我出来以后就看到孩子们妻子， [Speaker 4]: 还有那个小 baby， [Speaker 4]: 刚刚一个月到， [Speaker 4]: 就我想象不了， [Speaker 4]: 这再好夜， [Speaker 4]: 我在里边想到的再乐玩最好的也没有这种故事。 [Speaker 4]: 我是一个普通的中国家庭教会的牧师， [Speaker 4]: 但是还会了呃拯救呃这样的人我不知道的很远的教会他们都出来信徒们都出来说我们生年呃吉木市、 [Speaker 4]: 西安交会， [Speaker 4]: 我感觉到特别的蒙古， [Speaker 4]: 所以特别的谢谢谢谢所有的人， [Speaker 4]: 所有的人。 [Speaker 1]: thirty for grace on how husbbill retainining asseblance of normality has not been easy。 [Speaker 1]: they had two days warning that he might be released， [Speaker 1]: but they dad not believe it until he was here for the lag， [Speaker 3]: as i was like。 [Speaker 3]: are you sure they got him like they didn't like to switch another person and pretended that it was my dad。 [Speaker 1]: but they told us it's very delicate trying to get people of china。 [Speaker 1]: you really can't say it's certain until it is wheels up and then grace heard that it's a chinese plan。 [Speaker 1]: and she's like what we really can't be certain until til whwheeldown。 [Speaker 1]: so so it was uum。 [Speaker 1]: yeah， [Speaker 1]: it was unbelievable。 [Speaker 1]: unable to tell me about the reunion moment， [Speaker 1]: it must have been incredibly special when he first walked in， [Speaker 3]: i like， [Speaker 3]: literally didn't recognize him。 [Speaker 3]: he looked a lot 在那 um somehow he looked even like a little bit shorter than i imagine。 [Speaker 3]: i just didn't recognize his his eyes almost um and so it took me a couple moments to realize that。 [Speaker 3]: oh， [Speaker 3]: this is my dad， [Speaker 3]: but i mean， [Speaker 3]: again， [Speaker 3]: like it's just just such a miracle， [Speaker 3]: too。 [Speaker 2]: china， [Speaker 2]: china， [Speaker 2]: a's ina， [Speaker 2]: ina， [Speaker 2]: china would respect china somehow， [Speaker 1]: is this highly unusual release come to pass？ [Speaker 2]: yeah， [Speaker 2]: i've be going to china in a little well， [Speaker 2]: and there's another gentleman in a pastor would like to see to get out。 [Speaker 2]: i going to bring ing name that。 [Speaker 1]: well， [Speaker 1]: there seems to be one clear reason， [Speaker 1]: a personal play from a president to a president。 [Speaker 1]: did you point out what presidents eet in the politicle person secttuity？ [Speaker 1]: i think he's giving very serious conconsideration to the past eet， [Speaker 4]: 我是通过新闻联播看到的啊， [Speaker 4]: 他们说什么话的， [Speaker 4]: 我都不可能知道， [Speaker 4]: 特别的感动。 [Speaker 1]: there is universal agreement here amongst officials and observers that this cases really pretty unprecedented in recent times， [Speaker 1]: it could only have been agreed at the highest level。 [Speaker 1]: but what feels strange is that despite what feels like a real couo of diplomacacy， [Speaker 1]: the american government， [Speaker 1]: the american omacy have been completely silent about it。 [Speaker 1]: no one's claiming any credit。 [Speaker 1]: and that raises a whole range of questions about it。 [Speaker 1]: what was agreed， [Speaker 1]: what might have been promised any return？ [Speaker 1]: and crucially， [Speaker 1]: what is the all things say about china？ [Speaker 1]: it is a system that remains dogget in its pursuit of control that is deepeace suspicious of groups that are different。 [Speaker 1]: and that is unlikely to change for those who watch chcha's strategy closely。 [Speaker 2]: it feels there must be more to it be unusual that china was doing it for its simply outriouistic reasons what they hope to get an return for it beyond a masasure of good gwell that translate into were're， [Speaker 2]: arn， [Speaker 2]: terarivs or taiwan or technology um remains to be seen， [Speaker 2]: but it's long exisian paying is is president and how had the commerce prparty in china？ [Speaker 2]: we're not to to see a relaxation of religious policy， [Speaker 2]: whether a christians or muslim or tibet， [Speaker 2]: tibetton budsh。

[Speaker 1]: and that is a painful thought for many， [Speaker 1]: because there are many still behind bars。 [Speaker 1]: these faces are just those from pastor genans church people like pastor wa n kkong arrested in front of her， [Speaker 1]: then three year old daughter， [Speaker 1]: pastor wa NGIN， [Speaker 1]: whose family have since fled abroad and pastor young quybin， [Speaker 1]: who was arrested alongside his wife， [Speaker 1]: although she has since been bailed。 [Speaker 1]: and so we have a final stop on this journey。 [Speaker 1]: and it is to the western chinese city of chengdu。 [Speaker 1]: it is a metropolous， [Speaker 1]: a hub of lives being lived as normal， [Speaker 1]: but it is also a home to some of the family's fractuit。 [Speaker 5]: 呃， [Speaker 5]: 在我快生产的时候， [Speaker 5]: 他给我寄来。 [Speaker 5]: 他说婷婷平安愿主的脸， [Speaker 5]: 继续光照你。 [Speaker 5]: 孩子与爸妈， [Speaker 5]: 我也因听到你的力量而受安慰， [Speaker 5]: 期待早日相见， [Speaker 5]: 告诉卓依。 [Speaker 5]: 爸爸想他告诉爸妈， [Speaker 5]: 注意身体。 [Speaker 5]: 在你的牧程里， [Speaker 5]: 踩， [Speaker 5]: 但我仍然到现在读信的时候也会热泪盈眶。 [Speaker 5]: 对， [Speaker 5]: 这个是在我生产前的。 [Speaker 1]: a few irregular letters is all the contact tinting now husband， [Speaker 1]: husband and 我开始在里面的候 ststlinn UU chu NG was arrested here at their home and is charged with fraud。 [Speaker 5]: yeah， [Speaker 5]: 很害羞了。 [Speaker 1]: 芳芳 in the nine months he's been in prison。 [Speaker 1]: she has given birth to their third child alone。 [Speaker 1]: there is a fragility to her life， [Speaker 1]: and her hope， [Speaker 5]: 这我们真的是没有罪。 [Speaker 5]: 我们是没有做任何危害社会、 [Speaker 5]: 危害他人的人， [Speaker 5]: 去让他们能够睁眼去看看他们所关的都是什么样的一个人群。 [Speaker 5]: 对， [Speaker 5]: 非他们关的几个几位人就是几个代家庭。 [Speaker 1]: it clearly always heavily on pastor as region that he got so lucky， [Speaker 1]: while others did not。 [Speaker 1]: he is here to talk about his story， [Speaker 1]: but he's also here to talk about china and the ways he hopes it can change。 [Speaker 4]: 我们初步的估计还有一百多位牧子还在。 [Speaker 4]: 哎， [Speaker 4]: 这个监狱里哈嗯除了这些牧师之外， [Speaker 4]: 还有好多好多其他的呃信仰群体， [Speaker 4]: 还有一些良心犯。 [Speaker 4]: 千万不要认为我一个人释放， [Speaker 4]: 好像是 happy ending。 [Speaker 1]: but a chinese christians still living in a lot of feir， [Speaker 1]: and people still quite worried。 [Speaker 4]: 教案也非常频繁的发生， [Speaker 4]: 呃， [Speaker 4]: 很多的教会的信头也是很恐惧。 [Speaker 4]: 官员就是喊理直气壮的说今天我要看共产党厉害， [Speaker 4]: 还是你们的上帝厉害。 [Speaker 4]: 这种意识形态的冲突来他们处理问题的， [Speaker 4]: 那么就是教案就越来越频繁。 [Speaker 1]: and what is your message for a president sheet en pain？ [Speaker 1]: what do you think he should or could do now in relation to churches like us？ [Speaker 4]: 中国问题啊嗯需要最高领导人英明的做出决定。 [Speaker 4]: 有的人就是说习能改变吗？ [Speaker 4]: 喜能做习， [Speaker 4]: 会做这样的事情吗？ [Speaker 4]: 他能做吗？ [Speaker 4]: 这个我不知道， [Speaker 4]: 但是有一点很重要。 [Speaker 4]: 有一天， [Speaker 4]: 我我是真的坚信中国家庭教会会合法化合法化， [Speaker 4]: 因为这是好从某种意义上， [Speaker 4]: 对政府好， [Speaker 4]: 对社会好， [Speaker 4]: 对共产党也好。 [Speaker 3]: this is baby as sra。 [Speaker 3]: it's named after his grandpa pastor virgin grace took these videos for us when her baby was just a few days old and things still felt very bleak。 [Speaker 3]: we are really grateful that we have this bundle of joy。 [Speaker 3]: and this season of difficulties， [Speaker 1]: she could barely have imagined， [Speaker 1]: then how soon baby israa would meet with his name ssake。 [Speaker 4]: 所以每天这样看的看的时候都抱着的时候也都特别的看， [Speaker 4]: 特别看。 [Speaker 4]: 就是我觉得现在我死业是我是没有遗憾的， [Speaker 4]: 我没有什么遗憾， [Speaker 4]: 我特别的高兴。 [Speaker 4]: yeah， [Speaker 4]: yeah。 [Speaker 4]: yeah。 [Speaker 4]: yeah。 [Speaker 4]: yeah yeah yeah。 [Speaker 4]: yeah。 [Speaker 1]: yeah。 [Speaker 1]: china has not commented on the release of pastor gin。 [Speaker 1]: it says all cases will be handled in accordance with the law。 [Speaker 1]: it insists that religion is free and protected and rejects what it calls foreign interference。 [Speaker 1]: but there are many oels like a miracle， [Speaker 1]: but there are many others still waiting for this。 [Speaker 1]: yeah yeah yeah。 [Speaker 1]: yeah。 [Speaker 4]: yeah。 [Speaker 4]: yeah。 [Speaker 4]: yeah。