Christine: I think the best example of that is the cod liver which sounds—

Kyra: >> which sounds delicious.

Christine: >> It actually sounds like a punishment but I did read the guide and it's supposed to be like the fuagra of the sea, right?

Kyra: >> Yes. And I think we were all quite pleasantly surprised by how much we like it.

Christine: >> I'm Christine Sir Cleette. I'm Kyra Blackwell. And you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.

Kyra: >> Hi.

Christine: >> Hello.

Kyra: >> Okay, Christine, today we're talking about tinned fish.

Christine: >> Ooh la la. Tinned fish. Tell me more.

Kyra: >> Well, I'm really bringing this up to you because I just want to set the stage for you to really hop on your soap box and talk about how you missed out on making millions in this area.

Christine: Oh, Kyra, you heard me. I feel seen. Um, yes. I feel that I should have jumped on the tinned fish bandwagon a few years ago. Um, it's become so popular. Uh, you're seeing tinned fish at a lot of specialty shops at places like Whole Foods. It's becoming much more of, you know, a delicacy that people in the United States are eating. And I come from a commercial fishing family. I grew up canning tuna at home. So cool.

Kyra: So cool.

Christine: It Yes. It's the best tuna. And I feel like, what the heck? Why didn't I come up with this idea back in the '9s? I could have been selling tinned fish at

Kyra: >> But to be fair, you probably had no idea that it would become like this luxurious item. Like

Christine: >> I, you know, I did I did study abroad. I I spent a lot of time in Spain. So I did know that parts of the world really appreciate tinned fish, but it really hasn't caught up in the United States until until just the last few years, honestly. So, I'm excited to talk with someone who knows a lot about tinned fish here at Wire Cutter. Margaret Preston is our editorial director who oversees all of our kitchen coverage, and she has written our guide to tinned fish, which is an excellent guide. That guide has 24 recommendations.

Kyra: >> Yeah, it has a lot of wrecks. >> I can't believe that means that the kitchen team had to have tasted a lot of fish to still end up with that many. So they have everything from anchovies and mackerel to things like canned tuna, salmon, canned muscles. They even just published a separate guide focused just on canned sardines. And because apparently we are completely bonkers for tinned fish over here at Wire Cutter, I should also mention that Margarite was in a really fun YouTube video recently where she tries out a bunch of tinned fish on camera. So you can see some of the cans we actually talk about in this episode on that video. It's part of a new taste test series that Wire Cutter just launched on YouTube. After the break, we're getting into the details of what the uninitiated should know about tinned fish, the best ways to serve it, and some of the most delicious cans that our kitchen team found. We'll be right back.

Christine: Welcome back. With us now is Margarite Preston, who's an editorial director overseeing our kitchen team. She's had her hand in nearly all of our kitchen guides. And for our tin fish guide, she tested over 100 cans of tinned fish to figure out which ones are actually delicious, exciting, or worth gifting. Welcome to the show, Margarite.

Margarite: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Christine: I am gonna just start this episode with a total diet tribe of how mad I am that I did not create a tinned fish empire because there seem to be all of these amazing little companies that have cropped up over the last few years. Why has the popularity of these just exploded recently?

Margarite: I mean, first of all, I should say the popularity has exploded in America. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Many other countries across the world, the popularity never went away. It's been a big part of the culture to like go to a bar in Spain or Portugal and just get tinfish with your drink and that's it. But in America, I can only theorize. I don't have any like clear answers, but I think it sort of started picking up steam in the pandemic. And I think you could theorize away about the sort of like sudden coveting of canned goods that happened early in the pandemic, but I do think there's probably a little element of that where people suddenly were like, "Oh, it's it's nice to have shelf stable things." There's also, I think, the sort of social media aspect of it where like a lot of these fancy tinned fish just look really beautiful. They come in really beautiful packages. You open them up even and they're like these beautiful little silver jewels in a container. Tik Tok honestly probably did a lot for kind of popularizing tinned fish at a time when we were at home and kind of like looking for entertainment. And you know I think there are a number of companies in the United States really capitalized on that

Christine: >> like Fishwife is one of the big one.

Margarite: Yeah. But, you know, again, a lot of this stuff is like actually from Spain and Portugal, and the packaging is beautiful, but it's been around for decades.

Kyra: >> Right. Right. >> My TikTok was just full of these beautiful women in these beautiful marble kitchens. And they had tinned fish in like caviar and chips, and it looks so luxurious. I could totally see the hype.

Christine: >> And it's like good for you, too. You know, a fish is good for you. Good for your skin, your nails, your hair,

Kyra: >> your brain. High protein, all of that.

Christine: >> Yeah. So, to be clear, for this particular guide, you guys weren't just testing your quote quote "boring" tinfish, right? No like tuna in water or anchovies just to slap on top of a pizza. These are the ones that are kind of more fancy, but there's still so many to pick from. So, how did you guys manage to narrow it down?

Margarite: >> Okay, so first of all, I object to anything being boring.

Christine: >> Object.

Kyra: >> I think Canton is pretty boring.

Margarite: >> Okay, like your basic Bumblebee, whatever. Sure, kind of boring. But there is really lovely like plain sardines, really lovely plain tune out there. We just didn't test those because we were like that's the own world that could be its own guide. For this guide, I think for the sort of like first covers that we did of Tinfish, I did want to kind of capture that moment where people were interested in the kind of like fun fancy stuff that you could have at a party or whatever. So, I did really focus on that. But outside of that, I really wanted to kind of, you know, there's a gazillion things out there and I had to narrow it down, but I wanted to sort of capture variety both in sort of the types of fish and also the country of origin.

Kyra: >> Mh.

Margarite: >> Then I spent a lot of time looking at there are like retailers that sell just hundreds of different kinds of tinfish.

Christine: Wow.

Margarite: >> So, I spent a lot of time just kind of looking at those, getting a sense of what the big brands were from other countries, getting a sense of sort of like what the ranges of types of fish like. You know, the big ones are your sardines, your tuna, your mackerel, even salmon.

Kyra: >> But then you guys also tested things like muscles or

Margarite: >> trout is another one that's like very common.

Kyra: >> Things like octopus and squid.

Christine: >> Yum. You guys were also kind of testing for I don't know the beautifification of these cans too, right? cuz you want to be able to maybe gift them or have something that's just nice and it doesn't feel boring when you're eating it at home.

Margarite: Yeah. I almost thought of and approached this guide as kind of like one of our gift guides. You know, most of our taste tests were actually comparing apples to apples basically and we're doing these really close sideby-side comparisons. This one I was just more looking for variety and delight and something that you would want to like bring as a host gift or open up and serve as a pretty spread. So that meant looking at the packaging, paying attention to how it looks when you open it up. How easy it is to eat on its own. Not all of these are easy to eat on their own.

Christine: >> So you have these different categories in the guide. I think you have three main categories of the tinned fish. I think there's the sardines and mackerel, right? Um, then you have the tuna, the salmon, the trout, and then you have the ones you just mentioned, the sort of the mlllesks, the the oysters, the clams, the dreaded squid for me. Um, are there some that are more approachable for the uninitiated? I guess for like beginner level, where would you point people to start?

Margarite: I would start with the trout, the tuna, the salmon. Compared to like sardines and mackerel, they're a little less oily. You're also getting a fillet in the tin. You're not, you know, when you get a sardine, it's like the whole fish minus the head.

Kyra: >> The bones are in there. The guts, you know, not all the guts, but

Margarite: >> some of the guts. Just a little bit of the guts. A little bit of bones. I never know.

Kyra: >> Yes, you can eat the bones.

Margarite: >> Um, some people pick them out, but you can totally eat. They get pretty soft in the canning process. They're just a little bit crunchy. Trout, I think, is is maybe one of the best. It's like a really nice mild light fish. We have some really great trout options. If you're like fish wary, that's where I would start. And then from there, if somebody knows that they are cool with something a little fishier, like they they don't mind those flavors, would you point them mackerel can be pretty fishy?

Kyra: >> Yep. Yeah.

Margarite: >> So, these oilier fish, the the sardines and the and the mackerel.

Kyra: >> Yeah.

Margarite: >> Which can be really lovely and like fresh tasting. And then kind of like the muscles and the octopus and stuff like that can be more texturally challenging, I think, to people and visually challenging.

Christine: >> Is it fair to say that if you have a hard time with the texture of muscles or oysters fresh, you might not like them canned?

Margarite: >> Yeah, it's a different texture, but some might even describe it as worse, like chewier. Clams can be a little chewy in the can, but it's still it is like this, you know, creature with this one really does have all its organs inside of it. Like, it's a it's a funny bite.

Christine: So, a lot of the tinfish that we recommend in this guide are kind of expensive. Some can be over $30 for a can, which is a lot. You also recommend a few that are more like in the $6 range, which to me still sounds like a lot for canned fish. Can you explain why these options are so expensive?

Margarite: I think they're more expensive for all the sort of usual reasons that food can be more expensive. Like there's the quality of the ingredients. Like it's high quality fish. If you think about, you know, you go to a fish monger, you go to like a nice grocery store and you buy a fresh fish. Like they're expensive. So there's that. Also, a lot of these are being handpacked. It's not just some factory kind of like pumping fish into a can. It's these little like really old school caneries where there are people that are individually cutting the fish and carefully placing them into the can so they look really beautiful. You can look this up. There's like really cool videos on YouTube of like really old school like Portuguese factories or whatever that are doing this where they're even like wrapping it in paper by hand. Like it's, you know, so all of that manual labor adds to the cost too. And it's these are also like smaller production, you know, it's like not like they're producing hundreds of thousands of these. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah.

Margarite: >> You know, and I should say too like I I definitely like thought about price in these recommendations, but I didn't weigh it so heavily again because they're like a gifty. It's a special occasion thing. It's not like you're buying this for your lunch every day.

Kyra: We're going to talk a lot more about some of the recommendations which are really for eating straight out of the can or, you know, these kind of elevated options. In the guide, you also have some recommendations for tinned fish that didn't quite make it to that level, but that were good for cooking. What's the dividing line between tinned fish that's good for integrating into a recipe versus something that is great for serving as an appetizer or just on its own?

Margarite: Partially, it's just a vibe. Plenty of the things that you could serve on your own would also be delicious in a recipe, like especially the simpler sardines or something like in a pasta would be lovely. But I think what it came down to for us was could I open up this tin at a dinner party and put it on the table and people would eat it or would I have to like add a bunch of stuff to it to make it kind of appealing for the average person to eat? So like some examples from the cooking category were like this smoked herring from a company in Alaska, Wild Fish Canery, which was really delicious. Had a very strong smoke flavor. It was very salty. Quite It was just like strong strong flavors. And the flavors were delicious, but on their own they were a little overpowering. It was just like a little too much. like you kind of needed to it would have been really incredible if you had made it into like a a dip, you know, like mixed it with some mayonnaise, sour cream, herbs, lemon, etc. Same with like there you can buy like tin cod and what we found was most of the cod the tin cod that we bought was actually salt cod and again it was like a very salty

Kyra: >> sounds good. Some people I think liked some of them. Okay.

Margarite: But like to me it was just like not something you could really eat on its own. But again would be delicious if you could cook it into a dish like mix it with potatoes or something like that.

Kyra: >> I have seen these videos again that I mentioned on Tik Tok of these people putting their tin fish and they're making these gorgeous spreads to go with it. Sometimes somebody be like, "Oh, I'll just put like a bump of caviar to top it off." That's not realistic for me. Yeah. So, do you have any like quote unquote recipes for people who do want to make a meal out of it? Maybe they don't want to cook a whole pasta dish, but they might have like a thin cracker of some sort, maybe something to garnish it. Do you have anything like that?

Margarite: >> Yeah. So, I think the main thing you want is just kind of like >> flavor and textural contrast. So like the fish because they're canned, even if it's like a, you know, a mackerel with lemon or something like that, which we tried and recommend, like the lemon flavor is going to be more of like floral rindy lemon flavor than that kind of like bright acidic thing. Fish is always good with lemon, so like a nice little like squeeze of like fresh lemon or some kind of acid, little hot sauce, that kind of thing is great. And then freshness. They taste delicious, but they're they've been sitting in a can. So like chopped up fine herbs like to add a little green like visual contrast the green and then also the kind of like fresh flavor. >> Also for some of these some of these come in like a nice creamy sauce and like really don't need anything. But for other ones you might want to add a little kind of creaminess to it. I really like just mayonnaise. The spread you're describing to me sounds a little bit like you're having friends over and you have an appetizer. You would traditionally put out a cheese board with maybe some salami and olives and stuff. Is this something you would actually like tuck into that spread? Like would you put a canned fish in with your other items on the cheese board?

Kyra: >> Yeah, I mean I wouldn't I think I would make my own little fish just separate. I don't know if I'd have fish and cheese comingling together on the plate, but yeah. And it can be really nice again like acidic tart things. So like some nice pickled peppers or olives, a few different open tins of fish plus that plus some lemon wedges plus crackers like some nice like crunch to offset the fish. And are you serving them directly in the cans or are you decanting them into something else? It depends. I did look for ones that were you could serve right out of the cans and a lot of them look really beautiful. At least when you first open it. As soon as you dig in, it's going to start to not look as beautiful. But some of them are really stunning when you open them up. There are some that I would not serve out of the can cuz it's just a little too much visually.

Christine: >> I think the best example of that is the cod liver

Kyra: >> which sounds delicious.

Margarite: >> It actually sounds like a punishment. But I did read the guide and it's supposed to be like the fuagra of the sea, right?

Christine: >> Yes. And I think we were all quite pleasantly surprised by how much we like it. It is this very kind of like fatty liver. Texturally, it's very soft. It looks god awful. Um when you open the can, but the flavor, like I would describe the flavor as like anchovies and butter. >> Like it's this salty, very savory, fishy flavor. It's a very clean flavor. Highly recommend it. But if you put a little on toast, you do a little squeeze of lemon, you chop some herbs, the herbs kind of cover up whatever kind of funky looks there are, the nightmare going on underneath.

Kyra: >> Be a really beautiful appetizer. Yeah. Uh, I am picturing the spread I'm going to make, but I'm curious, what kind of crackers do you serve with tinned fish? Because I would imagine you wouldn't want to go too crunchy. I would probably want to go low brow and do a saltine. Um, but is that okay? Is that okay, Margaret?

Margarite: >> I say yes. And that's what we had in our tasting. I think a saltine is great cuz it has a certain level of like salt, but it's pretty bland. But, you know, you could also do like a I'm imagining kind of like a long, thin, delicate, flatbreddy type thing. But also bread.

Kyra: >> Bread.

Margarite: >> Mhm. >> Just some nice sliced bread. Some of these they come with these really lovely sauces that you actually might want to mop up with the bread a little bit. I love that.

Christine: >> Okay, so if you're a beginner and you're not really sure if you're really into the whole tinned fish thing, you should probably start out with something that's mild like a tuna or a salmon or a trout. And then if you think you know that you like this, then you can dive into the deep end and go for something more experienced like a mackerel is more oily, might be fishier, might be a little bit more pungent or sardine. And then if you want to kind of make a little meal out of it, make a spread for a party or just for yourself when you're dressing up girl dinner at night, you can add an acid like lemon always goes great with fish or a fat or a cream like creme fresh or mayonnaise even, which I don't. I can't. But if you want to, go ahead. If you like tuna salad, you will like mayonnaise with fish.

Margarite: >> I sure love it. And don't forget the heat, the hot sauce.

Kyra: >> The hot sauce. >> Always the hot sauce. That sounds great. >> After the break, we're going to talk to Margarite about a few of her personal favorite picks from the guide and what to look for on a label when you're browsing the canned seafood aisle and a quick lightning round about some of her hottest tinned fish takes. Be right back.

Christine: Welcome back, Margaret. Before the break, you told us how you test tinfish and we talked a little bit about how to serve these things, but now we want to talk about some of the recommendations because you have 24 recommendations in this guide. So, I am curious if you could just maybe pick the top four for you. What are your favorites from this guide?

Margarite: It's so hard because I could start listing and then just eventually list like all all 24 of them. One of my all-time favorites is this one. Um it's from a company ABC Plus, which is Portuguese, and they make this trout and curry sauce. >> The trout is really nice. It tastes really fresh. It's just like a beautiful trout. But then the curry sauce is like this thick creamy sauce. And the curry flavor is like so vibrant and fresh. Like it's a little bit spicy. Like all the spices taste really fresh and bright. It is so good. You could easily just eat the whole can. I would put it over rice for lunch.

Kyra: >> The challenge is that it's a very expens It's one of the more expensive. Someone give it to us. How much is it?

Margarite: >> How expensive is I would have to look up exactly. I think it's like $18.

Kyra: >> It's like something like in the $20 range.

Margarite: >> Yeah.

Kyra: >> Dang.

Margarite: >> So, it's not You want to be like, "This is like a perfect lunch. I'll just tote it to the office and like Sure." But

Kyra: >> it's like a little piece of fish.

Christine: >> So, what what's your what's your experience with this fish? Why do you why would you buy it for yourself?

Margarite: >> As a treat for myself for to eat the whole thing for lunch. >> Okay. But yeah, like at a party, I think it's also like it is a a good sort of entry level one because the trout is mild and fresh and also because the curry flavor does so much. You know, if you like curry, even if you're not a big fish person, like this would be really delicious. So, it's good for a party. It's kind of a crowd-pleaser. >> Another favorite that is also a crowd-pleaser is the smoked mackerel with chili flakes from Fish Wife. Ooh, we tested a lot of Fishwife's fish. And this was, I think, sort of far and away the consensus favorite. Um, and really like one of the sort of consensus favorites of the whole tasting. The smoke on the mackerel, it's pretty heavily smoked. Like you you open the can and it's this beautiful kind of like dark burnished brown color. The smoke flavor is really nice. It's balanced and woody. What we found with some of these fish is that the smoke flavor can taste a little kind of acurid or artificial in some of them. And this was not the case at all, but it's very smoky and then has a little bit of spice. They also kind of do it in this sauce that's garlic, sugar, olive oil. So like the sugar and the garlic kind of add a little extra they really round out the flavor.

Kyra: >> So that's another one that's just like really really delicious. Could eat it on its own, could eat it over rice, on a cracker. like it's great.

Margarite: Let's see. Oh my gosh, this is so hard to do just for.

Christine: >> You're halfway there.

Margarite: >> Um, you know, I'm going to say it. The cod liver like

Christine: >> Okay, that makes sense though cuz you have a very refined palette. So,

Margarite: >> um, it's just really it's different and it's really special. The one that we liked is from this brand Minnow, which is they're one of these newer companies. It's American. They're actually based in Brooklyn. It's like a restaurant group actually that makes them, >> but they're sourcing their fish from elsewhere. So, I think their cod liver is from I'm like actually looking at the box. It's from Iceland and it's just the cod, but it's really Yeah. anchovies and butter, which is like a thing that I love. That's what it tastes like to me.

Kyra: >> Sounds great. >> How expensive is the cod liver?

Margarite: >> It's $10. That is not that bad. That's not that bad.

Kyra: >> When we're talking about all of these very fancy cans, maybe our our view is skewed now since we know that they go up past 30, but $10 doesn't seem so bad.

Margarite: >> Yeah. And it's it's the kind of thing where a little goes a long way. Like that one I probably could eat the whole can. I don't know that I would eat. It's like it's a very rich thing. Um so you you'd get a lot of mileage out of it. Let's see. What is my number four? Oh, I got to say, and I'm really kind of like leaning on the American brands here, which we tasted so many and there are so many like cool and interesting things, but Wild Fish Canery, they make a bunch of stuff now, but they make smoked salmon and it is just so incredibly beautiful and good. They're beautifully smoked. Again, you can open it up and it's like this just this beautiful kind of glossy brown color on top. The flavor and the texture is just really buttery and meaty. You know, I think some of the tinned smoked fish we tried was kind of dry or like some of the salmon was maybe a little mushier or or like you kind of like had more water in it. This is just like I don't know. It's like just like dense and buttery and meaty in a really amazing way. And the smoke flavor is like really just real like it tastes like being in the woods or something. I would put all four of those on the table. And maybe I will. Maybe I will try those all together,

Christine: >> including the cod liver. >> I'm gonna do it. Yeah, it sounds delicious.

Kyra: >> That sound good. >> If someone is they're looking at our guide, they're like, I don't have any of these things available locally. I don't want to buy anything online. I just want to go to my local store and buy something. >> If you're just walking down a grocery aisle, is there anything on the label that indicates quality? It sounds like you had to just sort of do a lot of trial and error to find the things that you thought were good.

Christine: >> Can someone out in the wild be educated in terms of how they're they're shopping? Like are you looking for country of origin? Are there certain things on the label that they should be looking for?

Margarite: >> Yeah, the country of origin thing is really tough. I I don't think it really tells you a ton. I mean, there's so many countries with traditions of canning fish and they can all do it well that it doesn't necessarily tell you much, you know, and the ones I tested for this guide are from everywhere from China to Norway to Alaska. There are also sustainability certifications um that you can look for and if you care about that, that's something you might want to look out for. There's the MSC, which is the Marine Stewardship Council, and then there's the ASC, which is the Aquaculture Steward. It's the equivalent for farmed fish. What we found in the sardine testing was that those really didn't correlate at all to like actual flavor quality,

Kyra: >> right?

Margarite: It's more about your sort of ethics around what you're eating versus the the quality of what's in the can. >> Yeah. I think the one thing actually is oil versus water. Is it packed in oil or is it packed in water?

Kyra: >> Yeah, that that leads directly into my next question. I'm always looking at those labels when I'm just buying my regular canned tuna. I'm like, do I have to care about this? Does it make a difference?

Margarite: >> If you were to ask me or if you were to ask experts, oil is better because because it better preserves the shape and texture of the fish. Um, it also I think better preserves the flavor and the mouth feel. Fat is generally better than not fat. >> So for all of the reasons that like toast is better with butter, like >> it's just >> fish is better with oil, like it just makes it a little more unuous, a little more tender. >> So back to my question around shopping for for tinned fish, we've got links in our guide to all of the recommendations. Let's say you don't you don't have a grocery store that has a lot of these tinned fishes. you want to try them out. Are there online sources? What are some of those that you would recommend people go to if they want to kind of peruse and also maybe capture ordering a number of things from the same retailer so you're not paying for shipping from a bunch of different places? Yes. One of the big ones is Rainbow Tomatoes Garden. They carry the widest selection of tin fish of any retailer in the world. They just have a ton of stuff. They do a good job too of kind of describing what the fish are like and all that stuff. So, that's a good source. Another good source is Caputo, which is it actually does have retail stores in Utah. It's like a gourmet grocery, but they have a big online store and they are actually the importer for a lot of mostly European brands. So they carry a huge range and they also do a very good job of describing like what is the deal with this company and like what what does this taste like and you know what could you pair it with that kind of thing. Another one that I like that it's like a smaller retailer and they have a smaller selection but could be a good option if you want to try like a subscription which there are subscriptions out there where you can get a box of a few different tinfish once a month

Christine: Margarite, we want to get a lightning round in here. We're going to ask you a series of questions about the type of tinned fish you would serve. particularly the recommendation from our guide and we want you to answer lickety split real quick. Don't don't overthink it. So I will start. What's the best beginner friendly tin for someone who's nervous about tinned fish?

Margarite: I think actually the fish wife smoked mackerel but also minnow makes a smoked trout that is really lovely. I think it actually kind of tastes like bacon.

Kyra: >> Okay. If someone only buys one fancy tin this year, which one should it be?

Margarite: Um, Ramon Pña is a Spanish brand. Everything we have tried from them is really incredible and delicious. It's definitely fancier. It's like old school. Anything from them.

Christine: What's the most underrated type of tinned fish?

Margarite: Cod liver.

Christine: >> What about the most overrated?

Margarite: >> I like the fishier flavors. So, I I think like, you know, tuna. There's some really lovely tuna out there, but I want more oily fish.

Kyra: Would you eat tinned fish that's past its expiration date?

Margarite: >> Yes.

Kyra: >> How long after the expiration date?

Margarite: >> It might depend on the can and the fish, but I will tell you this. >> Vintage tinned tinned fish. >> You can you can buy sardines that have a vintage that have the year that they were

Kyra: >> like a wine.

Margarite: >> Yes, exactly. And people collect them.

Kyra: But do they eat them?

Margarite: >> And they eat them.

Kyra: >> What?

Margarite: >> And there is a school of thought that sardines, I think it's especially sardines and tuna, canned and oil get better with age.

Kyra: >> Huh. I'm so skeptical.

Margarite: >> Flavor develops, the texture develops, the bones kind of melt away. It's a thing. And you can go online and you can buy like a collection of like vintages of different sard, you know, sardines from 2020, sardines from that >> 2018.

Kyra: But are we like are we okay if it's like sardines from 1996 or from 1940? Like how far back can you go?

Margarite: >> A good question. I have to do I have to do a little more research there into how far back when you open it up. >> All right, we're down to our final question. What's the last thing you bought that you've really loved? >> Okay, this is a very recent purchase and this was a big purchase, but I just bought a cargo ebike. Ah, I so I should back up and say I really rely on biking around Brooklyn. It's how I get my kid everywhere. But I recently moved and where I moved is both farther away from school and at the bottom of a very big hill. and my son is four and a half and I am 6 months pregnant. So, I don't really want to bike him up the hill every day anymore. And then we found this secondhand Rad Runner that's in very good condition for $500.

Kyra: >> Oh, nice.

Christine: >> That's a great price.

Margarite: >> Mhm. It's like a $1,500 bike.

Kyra: >> Yeah. Wow. >> Well, Margarite, it was so lovely to talk tinfish with you and um maybe we'll get to taste some with you sometime soon.

Margarite: Yeah, I would love that.

Christine: >> Thank you.

Kyra: >> Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Christine: >> All right. Tinned fish. Kyra, what are you thinking? What are you Are you sold?

Kyra: >> I'm really sold on this fish. I'm like I like tinned fish, but I'm not really going to go out and buy it specifically. Like if I pass it in the store and it looks good, maybe. Um I do have to say that fish wife the mackerel does look good. looks affordable for my price range and most importantly for me it looks accessible because I've definitely seen it at my local grocery store.

Christine: >> Yeah, I think it's becoming more and more available. Um, I am feeling pretty pumped and inspired to do some kind of appetizer fish board at my next gathering. And so I'm going to think about all the flavors and I'll probably focus on some of the more approachable options that Margarite talked about and steer clear of the oilier like mackerel and sardines to start with just to as a nice entry point. But I'm I'm excited to try. If listeners have any questions about any of the recommendations we talked about today, we have all of those recommendations in our show notes and you can also we'll have a link to our tinned fish guide. That's it for us this week. Thanks so much for listening.

Kyra: >> Bye

Christine: >> bye.

Kyra: >> Yeah, mayonnaise on a cracker. That's our dividing line.

Christine: >> Yeah, we've had so many debates about mayonnaise. I'm like, I don't want to eat it where I can taste it. Oh my gosh.