Chamath的健康优化之旅:预防性医疗与长寿之道 All-In Podcast 2025-11-17

追求健康:我的动机与警醒

我身边有许多朋友,他们拥有一切,唯独缺少健康,而我不想成为那样的人。

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I have so many of my friends that just literally have everything except their health and I just don't want that.

你知道,生命的时间是有限的。我并非想永生不死,我只是想活得精彩。

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You know, there's a limited amount of time. I'm not trying to live forever. I'm just trying to live well.

所以,本周我将探讨一些关于我个人健康的疑问,我猜想许多人也有同样的疑问。

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So, this week I'm going to explore some questions that I have about my health and I suspect that many people out there have about theirs.

主持人: 这到目前为止很棒。

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>> That's great so far.

我的父亲一生过着非常不健康的生活。

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My father lived a really unhealthy life.

他与酗酒斗争了几十年,患有糖尿病,还有心脏问题。

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He struggled with alcoholism for decades. He was diabetic. He had heart issues.

最终,他死于心脏骤停。

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And in the end, he died of a cardiac arrest.

我们虽然预料到他的离世,但他仍然留下了我的母亲、兄弟姐妹和我,说实话,让我们收拾残局。

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We were expecting his death, but he still left my mom, my siblings, and me, honestly, to pick up the pieces.

当我的朋友戴夫死于心脏病发作时,我完全没有预料到。

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When my friend Dave died of a heart attack, I wasn't expecting it.

在我看来,他似乎非常健康,那次事件真正敲响了我的警钟。

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To me, he seemed perfectly healthy and that was my real wakeup call.

当时我们在墨西哥,他突发心脏病,说实话,那真是一场悲剧。

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We were in Mexico and he had a heart attack and it was a real tragedy to be totally honest.

但紧接着,他的妻子要求他的四个最好的朋友,真的要努力更好地照顾自己,特别是要开始去看心脏病专家。

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But on the heels of that, his wife asked his four best friends just to like really try to, you know, take care of ourselves better and specifically to start going and seeing a cardiologist.

心脏健康:他汀类药物与早期检测

主持人: 嘿,欢迎回来。

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>> Hey, welcome back.

Chamath: 谢谢,很高兴见到你。

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>> Thanks. It's great to see you.

主持人: 很高兴在网上,在X(前身为Twitter的社交媒体平台)上见到你,我们看到一些关于他汀类药物(statins: 一类用于降低胆固醇水平的药物)的兴趣。

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>> It's great to see you online on X, we saw some uh interest about statins.

Chamath: 卡尔斯堡医生(Dr. Carlsburg)是美国最优秀的介入心脏病专家。

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>> So, Dr. Carlsburg, he is the best interventional cardiologist in the United States.

当他在我的动脉中发现一些斑块时,他给我开了他汀类药物。

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>> When he discovered some plaque in my arteries, he put me on statins.

它们应该能降低“坏”的低密度脂蛋白胆固醇(LDL cholesterol: 一种与动脉粥样硬化风险相关的胆固醇),减少心脏病发作的风险,并稳定斑块。

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They're supposed to lower bad LDL cholesterol, reduce the risk of heart attack, and stabilize plaque.

但对某些人来说,它们是有争议的。

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But to some they are controversial.

Chamath: 嗯,你基本上发布了一些关于为全美国的心脏健康做些什么的内容,你标记了我,也标记了鲍比,但Twitter,或者说X上的评论,都围绕着我是否应该服用他汀类药物,以及这是否完全是伪科学(pseudoscience: 冒充科学的非科学理论或实践)。

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Well, you posted basically trying to do something um for cardiac health across all of America and you tagged me and Bobby, but the amount of commentary in Twitter or in X rather was all about the whether or not I should be on a statin and whether or not it was just completely um pseudocience.

看,我在职业生涯中学到的是,我可以谈论任何事情。

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Look, what I've learned in my career is I could talk about anything.

我可以说天空是蓝色的,但仍然会有不同的意见说它不是。

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I could say the sky is blue and there will be opinions that say it's not.

所以,老实说,我大部分都忽略了,除了少数几个非常深思熟虑的人提出了一个我认为非常合理的问题。

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So, to be honest with you, I kind of ignored most of it except to say that the few people who are very thoughtful in there brought up, I thought, a very legitimate question.

我的许多关注者觉得他汀类药物可能在某些方面帮助他们,但在其他方面也会伤害他们。

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A lot of my followers feel like statins might help them in some areas, but also hurt them in others.

这就是我一直定期来找卡尔斯堡医生,让他帮我弄清楚这一切的原因之一。

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That's one of the reasons why I've been coming to Dr. Carlsburg so regularly to help me figure all of this out.

你认为做所有这些测试最困难的部分是什么?

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What's the most difficult part of doing all this testing, would you say?

医生: 老实说,在你开始之前,那是认知负荷(cognitive load: 心理学概念,指大脑处理信息时所承受的负担),因为我认为有太多的诱因。

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>> To be honest with you, it's the cognitive load before you start it because I think there's so many incentives.

许多人的脑海里都有一些小声音,告诉他们不要开始,因为你可能会发现什么。

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There's little voices inside of many people's heads that says don't even start because of what you could find.

Chamath: 我每四五年就会做一次叫做CT血管造影(CT angagram: 一种利用CT扫描和造影剂检查血管的医学影像技术)的检查,它需要注射造影剂。

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>> And I do this test every four or five years called a CT angagram with contrast.

这基本上是一种将染料注入你的静脉,然后对你的心脏进行成像,这样你就能看到所有的动脉。

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It's basically a way of injecting a die into your veins and then imaging your heart so that you can see all the arteries.

医护人员: 吸气。屏住呼吸。

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>> Breathe in. Hold your breath.

Chamath: 现在它还能以一种方式成像,你可以将这些数据发送到机器学习模型(machine learning model: 一种人工智能算法,通过数据学习并做出预测或决策),然后你就可以开始提取更详细的信息,了解正在发生什么。

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>> What it's also able to do now is image it in such a way where you can take that corpus of data and send it into a machine learning model and then now you can start to extract an even more detailed sense of what's happening.

医护人员: 那位年轻女士是一个完美的案例。

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>> That young lady is a perfect study.

绝对漂亮。

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>> Absolutely beautiful.

Chamath: 我的意思是,当造影剂进入你的身体时感觉很奇怪。

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>> I mean it's weird when the contrast goes in your body.

主持人: 是的。

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>> Yeah.

Chamath: 嗯,我以前做过几次,但每次都会忘记那种感觉。

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Um I've had it done a couple times before obviously but I really I forget each time.

全身扫描:Pre-nuvo MRI与科技赋能

心脏很重要,但这只是故事的一部分。

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The heart is important, but it's only part of the story.

如果你想更全面地了解自己的整体健康状况,你真的需要进行Pre-nuvo全身扫描(Pre-nuvo scan: 一种提供全身MRI扫描和健康评估的服务)。

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If you want a more complete sense of your overall health, you really need a prenal scan.

Pre-nuvo工作人员: 早上好。

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>> Good morning.

Chamath: 嗨,你好吗?很好。你好吗?

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>> Hi, how are you? Good. How are you?

Pre-nuvo工作人员: 很好,谢谢。

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>> Good, thanks.

所以,当我们在硅谷开设一家诊所时,我联系了Chamath,我知道他有点像个“黑客”,一个生物黑客(biohacker: 通过科学和技术手段优化自身生物功能的人),我真的很想让他体验我们正在做的事情。

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So, I reached out to Chimath when we had just opened a clinic in Silicon Valley during CO and I thought I knew he was a bit of a hacker, a biohacker, and I really wanted him to experience what we were doing.

他很友善地来了。

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He was nice enough to come in.

我们建立了友谊,他已经来做了几次扫描。

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We developed the friendship and he's been in for several scans.

点击。你就在那里接受。

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Click. You accept right there.

Pre-nuvo工作人员: 自从我认识Chamath以来的五年里,我们已经为大约15万人进行了成像。

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In the 5 years since I met Chamath, we've now imaged about 150,000 people.

我们已经挽救或做出了大约4000个挽救生命的诊断。

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We've saved or made about 4,000 life-saving diagnosis.

每天我们都会收到人们的故事,我们可能挽救了他们的生命,或者给了他们清晰的诊断,或者让他们安心。

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And every day we get stories from folks where we might have saved their life or gave them clarity or delivered peace of mind.

所以,能够建立一家公司,同时产生积极影响,真是太棒了。

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So, it's really great to be building a company and at the same time having positive impact.

Chamath: 好的,我们开始吧。

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>> Okay, let's do it.

Pre-nuvo工作人员: 所以,我们与众不同之处在于,我们运营着自己定制的研究级MRI硬件(MRI hardware: 用于磁共振成像的设备)。

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So what makes us unique compared to others is we operate our own customuilt research grade MRI hardware.

我们拥有人工智能(AI: Artificial Intelligence,模拟人类智能的技术)来增强图像质量。

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We have AI that enables us to enhance image quality.

然后,我们拥有一支由放射科医生(radiologists: 专门从事医学影像诊断的医生)和医疗专业人员组成的不可思议的团队,现在已经超过100人,他们为我们的患者提供卓越的护理标准。

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And then we have this incredible team of radiologists and medical professionals now over 100 that deliver a tremendous stand of care for our patients.

Chamath: 所以我刚刚做了一个全身高级MRI扫描(MRI scan: 磁共振成像扫描)。

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So I just did a full body advanced MRI scan.

花了一个小时十五分钟。

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Took like an hour and 15 minutes.

但感觉并没有那么久,因为我只是躺在机器里看Netflix。

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But it really didn't feel that way cuz I just was lying in the machine watching Netflix.

所以,这实际上真的非常棒。

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So, it's actually like a really it's really great actually.

工作与团队:多伦多科技周的思考

Chamath: 好的,是的。所以我们刚上车。

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>> Okay. Yeah. So, we just got in the car.

我们正前往多伦多科技周(Toronto Tech Week)。

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We are uh headed to Toronto Tech Week.

我们的第一站是Shopify总部,与我的朋友法尔汉·索尔(Farhan Thoir)进行炉边谈话。

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Our first stop is at the Shopify headquarters for a fireside chat with my friend Farhan Thoir.

法尔汉·索尔: 很好。人工智能怎么样?

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>> Good. How is the AI? What's up?

Chamath: 站在舞台上是我喜欢的事情,因为它让我能够告诉人们我认为现在正在发生什么以及将来会发生什么。

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Being on stage is something I like because it allows me to tell people what I think is going on right now and what will go on.

我不想这样说,但你越成功,就越容易脱离现实生活。

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I hate to say it this way, but like the more success that you can have, the easier it is to detach yourself from real life.

然后你就会开始错过与人的联系。

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And then you start to miss out on people.

如果足够多的人认为这个真相是可信的,那么其中一部分人就会自我选择并说:“嘿,我想和你一起做这件事。”

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And if enough people, you know, find that truth credible, some subset of those people will self- select and say, "Hey, I want to work with you on this."

然后我就会把他们引入这些业务。

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And then I, you know, feed them into those businesses.

这对他们来说是一个很好的机会。

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It's a great opportunity for them.

但这也是我们离实现梦想更近一步的方式。

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But it's also how we get one step closer to achieving our dreams.

Chamath: 现在,我们要跳上车,去8090办公室吃午饭。

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>> Now, we're going to jump in the car and uh go to the 8090 office and have lunch.

Chamath及同事: 是的。只是想打个招呼。很高兴再次见到你。很高兴见到你。

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>> Yeah. Just trying to say hi. Good to see you again. Good to see you.

Chamath: 好的,我们谈谈吧,因为我不想时间不够。

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>> Okay, let's talk because I don't want to run out of time.

那么,我们到三点钟有什么安排?

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So, what do we have till 3:00?

我发现,尤其是在你试图做一些像8090团队正在努力做的极其雄心勃勃的事情时,早期最大的问题是漂移(drift: 指团队或个人偏离最初目标或方向)。

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What I found is that early on, especially when you're trying to do something extremely ambitious like the 8090 team is trying to do, the biggest problem is drift.

意思是,你只是有点漂离了。

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Meaning, you just kind of drift away.

每个人都只是漂离了。

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Everybody just drifts away.

他们失去了理解,我认为首席执行官在早期建设阶段的责任是尽量减少这种漂移。

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they lose an understanding and I think the responsibility of the CEO in that early phase when you're in a build cycle is to minimize the drift.

我认为一个好的首席执行官可以通过提醒人们他们来这里是为了做什么来做到这一点。

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The way that I think a good CEO can do that is just reminding people of what they're there to do.

所以,你知道,在多伦多只是一个机会,让大家坐下来,在白板上写点东西,和他们聊聊,这样他们就能感受到正在发生的事情。

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And so, you know, in Toronto is just a chance to just take everybody and sit them down, whiteboard something, just talk to them so that they could feel a sense of what was happening.

在Zoom上听到或在幻灯片中看到是一回事,但身处其中并感受到那种联系是另一回事。

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It's one thing to hear it on a Zoom or see it in slides, but it's another to just be in the room and feel that connection.

Chamath: 非常兴奋。谢谢大家。

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>> Super excited. Thank you guys.

脑容量与肌肉量:全面健康评估

Chamath: 好的,那么今天的计划是什么?

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>> Okay, so what's the plan today?

我们要去拿Pre-nuvo扫描的报告。

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We're going to go and get a little readout of the pre-nuvo scan.

嗯,希望一切都相对顺利。

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Um, and hopefully everything is, you know, relatively straightforward there.

这些健康测试可能看起来有点过度,但我坚信人们需要为自己的健康发声,并提出很多问题。

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These health tests may seem a bit like overkill, but I feel strongly that people need to advocate for their health and ask a lot of questions.

Andrew (Pre-nuvo工作人员): 我们知道,平均而言,你的脑容量(brain volume: 大脑的体积)每十年会减少约3%。

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>> What we know is that you lose about 3% of your brain volume every decade on average.

Chamath: 是这样吗?

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>> Is that right?

Andrew: 是的。所以问题是,你与平均水平相比如何?

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>> Yeah. And so the question is, how do you compare?

Chamath: 老实说,当Andrew提到脑容量损失时,我心里有点发慌,因为我知道美国食品药品监督管理局(FDA: Food and Drug Administration,负责食品和药品安全的美国政府机构)关于他汀类药物的说明书警告有记忆力丧失的风险。

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Honestly, my stomach fell a little bit when Andrew mentioned brain volume loss because I knew the FDA label on statins warns about memory loss.

Dr. London: 好的,Sean,交给你了。告诉我好消息或坏消息。

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>> All right, Sean, over to you. Tell me the good news or the bad news.

所以,嗯,这是现在增强后的扫描结果。

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So, um, this is the enhanced scan now.

我们在这里看到的是,所有高功能脑组织中的血流量。

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And so, what what we're looking at here is just blood flow throughout all the, uh, higher functioning brain tissue.

这都非常对称和正常。

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And this is all very symmetric and normal.

Chamath: 嗯。

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>> Um,

Sean: 嗯,我想伦敦医生说的是,你在这里处于正常曲线。

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>> well, I think what Dr. London is saying is you're on a normal curve here.

Chamath: 那些喷子们,都给我闭嘴。

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>> Suck it, people. All the all the haters out there.

我的大脑没有什么值得担忧的,也没有任何变化。

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Nothing worrisome, no change when it comes to my brain.

我真的松了一口气。

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I'm really relieved.

但让我困惑的是,我有一些肌肉流失,这令人担忧。

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But something that did confound me is that I have some muscle loss, which is concerning.

Sean: 这是我希望你关注和强调的主要事情,就是肌肉量(muscle mass: 身体中肌肉组织的总量),因为我们知道保持肌肉量的重要性,特别是随着时间的推移对大脑健康也很重要,而且随着年龄增长,维持肌肉量会变得更困难。

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This is the main thing I wanted you to to focus on and to highlight was the muscle the muscle mass because we know how important maintaining muscle mass is particularly for you know brain health too over time and it's harder to maintain as we get older.

Chamath: 而且互联网还认为我不锻炼,我应该多做腿部训练。

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>> Plus the internet internet thinks that I don't work out that I should be doing more leg day.

所以这真的会助长整个阴谋论。

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So this is going to really feed the whole conspiracy.

Sean: 我的意思是,一切都要持保留态度。

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>> I mean take everything with a grain of salt too. You know like

Chamath: 他们会喜欢这个的。

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>> they're going to love it.

Sean: 我的意思是,这并不是一个非常令人担忧的下降。

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>> I mean it it's not like a a terribly concerning decrease. Yeah,

它只是比其他的波动更值得注意。

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>> it was just it was just more notable than the than the other uh fluctuations.

Chamath: 但那些喷子们会喜欢这个的。

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>> But the trolls are going to love it.

就像我告诉你的,你没有锻炼你的腿。

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Like I told you, you don't work out your legs.

这不是真的,伙计们。

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It's not true, guys.

我只是个子高。

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I'm just tall.

我的意思是,每次我来,它都变得越来越好。

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I mean, every time I come, it just gets a You're doing a better and better job building this thing.

你把这个做得越来越好。

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It's so great.

这太棒了。

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I love being a guinea pig for stuff like this.

我喜欢成为这类事情的小白鼠(guinea pig: 指实验对象)。

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Yeah.

Sean: 是的。

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And it's been really valuable for me.

Chamath: 这对我来说真的很有价值。

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The next like 10, 11, 12 years.

接下来的10、11、12年。

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I really want to make sure I pack as much muscle as possible.

我真的想确保尽可能多地增加肌肉。

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Insulate myself going into my 60s and 70s.

在我六七十岁的时候保护好自己。

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Seems like the right goal.

这似乎是正确的目标。

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Thank you.

谢谢你。

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Thank you very much.

Sean: 非常感谢你。

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Thanks for visiting.

谢谢你的来访。

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Great to see you.

Chamath: 很高兴见到你。

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Yeah.

Sean: 是的。

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Now it's time to check back in with Dr. Carlsburg and face the music on my heart.

心脏健康复查:斑块与未来展望

Chamath: 现在是时候再次拜访卡尔斯堡医生,面对我心脏的“判决”了。

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>> Welcome back.

Dr. Carlsburg: 欢迎回来。

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>> Thank you. Good to see you.

Chamath: 谢谢。很高兴见到你。

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>> Uh you had a really busy day yesterday, didn't you?

Dr. Carlsburg: 呃,你昨天过得很忙,不是吗?

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>> Busy day,

Chamath: 忙碌的一天,但很充实。

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but a good day.

Dr. Carlsburg: 我现在要展示一些非常惊人的东西。

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>> What I'm going to do now is present something that's quite astonishing.

你的钙化积分(calcium score: 用于评估冠状动脉钙化程度的指标)是零,而且仍然是零。

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You have a zero calcium score and you still have a zero calcium score.

Chamath: 我们走吧!

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>> Let's get out of here.

Dr. Carlsburg: 没那么快。

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>> Not so fast.

我们看到,在过去的十年里,你的这种物质增加了370%,这意味着你正走在动脉粥样硬化(atherosclerosis: 动脉壁增厚、硬化并形成斑块的疾病)的道路上。

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We see that over the 10 years you had a 370% increase in that material, which means that you are on a pathway to atheroscerosis,

但你是地球上少数拥有这种信息的人之一,而且你将利用它。

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but you're one of the few peoples on the planet that have this kind of information and you're going to take advantage of it.

所以我们在这里看到的是,总斑块体积(total plaque volume: 血管中斑块的总量)的百分比变化从每年24%下降到每年10%,这与我们在更大规模研究中发现的结果一致。

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And so what we're looking at here was a percent change that went from total plaque volume fell from 24% a year to 10% a year, which is consistent with what we found in much bigger studies.

现在,考虑到第一层面的“困境”,也就是听从你的听众,停用药物因为它们很危险,或者继续服用药物,你根据你所听到的做出的第一层面决定会是什么?

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Now, given the first level of tears, which is listen to your audience and come off the drugs because they're dangerous, or stay on the drugs, the first level of decision on your part based on what you heard is going to be what?

Chamath: 显然,我们会继续服用药物。

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>> Obviously, we're going to stay on the drug. So,

Dr. Carlsburg: 好的,那是你的决定。

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>> okay, that's your decision.

Chamath: 是的。

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>> Yeah.

Dr. Carlsburg: 好的。

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>> Okay.

Chamath: 我想我从你这里听到的是,我们十年前开始服用他汀类药物。

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>> I think what I'm hearing from you is we started this statin a decade ago.

它似乎产生了相当显著的影响。

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It seems to have had a pretty meaningful impact.

所有这些其他我们如果这些东西不存在就永远不会知道要寻找的东西。

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we in all of these other things that we never would have known to look for had this stuff not existed.

Dr. Carlsburg: 完全正确。

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>> Exactly.

所以,我从你这里学到的实际上意义重大。

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So, what I'm learning from you actually is a big deal.

你做了一些很好的事情,那实际上是很好的预防措施,但现在你有一个更好的前沿优势,因为你正在对抗一种最终会追上你的遗传趋势。

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You've done some good stuff and that was actually pretty preventative and good, but there's now an even better leading edge for you because you're fighting against a genetic trend that will eventually catch up with you.

Chamath: 这是一个秘密。

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>> It that's a secret.

这太棒了。

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That's fantastic.

我想知道这个秘密。

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I want to know the secret.

我想知道答案。

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I want to know the answer.

现在,对你来说没有标准的治疗方法。

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Now, there are no standard treatments for you.

Dr. Carlsburg: 我认为你可以选择等待。

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I think that you could choose to wait.

你的钙化积分是零。

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Your calcium score is zero.

你未来5到10年的结果会很好。

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Your outcome is going to be fine for the next 5, 10 years.

你发生心脏事件的几率非常非常接近于零。

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Chances of you having a cardiac event are very, very close to zero.

Chamath: 未来五年没有心脏事件的风险。

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>> No risk of a cardiac event in the next five years.

希望是十年。

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Hopefully 10.

Dr. Carlsburg: 呃,这是我的预测。

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>> Uh that's my prediction.

好的。

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All right.

Chamath: 你做得很好。

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>> You're doing a great service.

谢谢你。

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Thank you.

谢谢你。

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Thank you.

再见。

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See you soon.

祝你夏天愉快。

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Have a great summer.

Dr. Carlsburg: 再见。

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>> Byebye.

结语:健康是一场没有终点的旅程

Chamath: 你知道,如果说我从这个过程中学到了一件事,那就是没有终点线。

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You know, if there's one thing I've learned through this process, it's that there's no finish line.

老实说,最佳健康不是一个目的地,而是一段旅程。

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Honestly, optimal health isn't a destination. It's a journey.

但归根结底,我们都面临着同样的选择。

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But at the end of the day, we all face the same choice.

我们是等到出了问题才行动,还是现在就开始倾听身体的声音?

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Do we wait until something breaks or do we start listening now?

开始健康之旅可能会令人恐惧。

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Starting the health journey can be scary.

但在我看来,这是值得的,因为活得好是最好的回报。

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But in my opinion, I think it's worth it because living well is the best return there is.

Chamath: 好了,我们到家了。

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>> Well, we're home.

这是漫长的一周。

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It's been a long week.

希望你喜欢跟着我四处奔波,但现在是时候离开了。

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I hope you enjoy following me around, but now it's time to get the out of here.

📌 文中提及的人物和组织

人物: Chamath Palihapitiya, Andrew

公司/组织: Shopify

产品/模型: Netflix

媒体/书籍: All-In Podcast, X

关键字: health investment