WNBA球星娜塔莎·克劳德：爱与身份的自我探索

Hey everyone, it's Anna. Before we start the show, I want to ask you a question. And please don't be offended if it sounds a little direct. Okay, here goes. Are money issues affecting your relationship?

Money can be awkward and sensitive to talk about how much to save, how much to spend, who makes the decisions about what.

But if you're not talking about money, it can cause even bigger problems.

We have an episode coming up soon where I'll be talking to Rammit Sati. He hosted the Netflix show How to Get Rich.

He's written books on personal finance and he's especially good at helping couples resolve their differences around money and start to actually enjoy talking about it.

If this sounds like something you want to be a part of, please send us a short voice memo.

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We might play your voice on the show and hear Ramit's advice on what you can do differently.

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All right, here's today's episode.

>> Love now and fall in love. I love stronger than anything.

>> For the love of love.

>> And I love you more than anything. There's still love

>> from the New York Times. I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love.

WNBA finals just ended. And a lot of my friends are really jealous of me because today I'm talking to one of the breakout stars of the 2025 season, Natasha Cloud.

Natasha is one of New York Liberty's powerhouses. She's outspoken. She's got immense amounts of swag. and she's really freaking good at basketball.

When I watch her play, I see someone who is strong and confident, self- assured, but she wasn't always that way.

Today, I talked to Natasha Cloud about how a conversation with her mother changed everything she thought she knew about who she was and all the work she's done in the years since to figure out who she really is.

Natasha Cloud, welcome to Modern Love.

>> Thank you for having me. Do you prefer TSH? Everyone calls you TSH. I don't know you so well yet. What do you like?

>> You can call me Tash. Tasha. Natasha is really like for my mama, and when she calls me Natasha, I'm like, "Oh, what did I do?"

>> You're a new New Yorker. What's your go-to bodega order?

>> I'm very basic with my food, but I love me a good bacon, egg, and cheese with the double cheese.

Make that bacon extra crispy because I don't want no fat on that.

>> Any sauce, ketchup, hot sauce? No. I like a little hot sauce, but honestly, I'm a grape jelly girl. I know. I

>> on the bacon, egg, and cheese.

>> Listen, don't knock it until you try it.

>> Wait, I really don't like that.

>> No, I'm telling you, you can't knock it until you try it.

>> Yeah, I tell you, it balances so well. Don't overdo it with the jelly. Just a little bit.

>> And you're putting it in the sandwich. You're not dipping it in.

>> I'm not dipping it. I'm putting a little bit on, smacking that sandwich. I'm busting that down.

>> I have never heard of this. This could be an innovation.

>> Let me put you on. Let me bring the Philly to New York.

>> This is the TSH Sam.

>> This is the cloud.

>> My god. That's the cloud.

>> Um, you are the first athlete I've ever interviewed.

It is funny to me that we've never had an athlete on because we're a show about love and relationships and it strikes me that relationships between teammates are incredibly close. Can sometimes be complicated.

Let's situate you in your role on your team. You're a point guard.

>> Yes.

You know, when I think about sort of hard things that a team goes through collectively, I think of losses.

Sorry to say this, but it is true.

>> Yeah, we were sad girls.

>> Yeah, you were sad girls. You were out of the playoffs in the first in the first round. I wonder like how do you as a leader on the team, how do you handle losses?

>> Who I'm a sore loser, so I don't even

>> I feel like you don't get to your level without being a sore loser, right?

>> Yeah. Like I truly hate losing. It could literally be an Uno game. Like Izzy kicks my ass in Uno all the time.

>> Is he your girlfriend? We'll talk about it.

>> Yes. Y'all don't play her in Uno. She be acting like this cute little sweet Oh, I know what I'm doing. And then boom, Uno out. But I'm like, what the you mean? You out. We just started. So, I'm super competitive.

Um, I will say that the accountability factor even for myself is like when adversity hits and there's always like es and flows of a season is I have to remain more consistent.

Even in my frustrations of like I don't feel like we're playing well, we're not jelling, we're not the C what what is going like I'll be frustrated and then those moments the accountability for me for next year is to be more consistent.

>> Tell me what that looks like for you and we throw around this term embodied, but let's say you're feeling really fired up. You're like pissed about a loss, whatever. What do you do to calm yourself down specifically? Is it like you close your eyes? You take a breath? Like what's your method?

Um, I'm a big like I'm going to go throw some first and probably So, I'm going to remove myself.

>> Put it at the wall. Yeah.

So, I'm going to remove myself from the actual team setting. I'm probably going to go into like our weight room and I'm going to throw like a medicine ball or something to get my initial like out of me.

>> I need to do that. Wait, can we both do that? Three, two, one.

>> I needed that actually.

>> Thank you. Yeah. Sometimes it's just like you just got to do it.

>> You just got to get it down.

>> No medicine ball in the studio right now. So keep going.

>> The walls look really nice in here. So we we ain't trying to pay.

>> Pretty new. Okay. So you throw the medicine ball then what do you do?

>> So like inhale for six, hold for one, exhale for seven to regulate my body and my nervous system like meditation and then I'll go back in and if I feel like I have to get into us a little bit, I will. But it will be in a very calm um demeanor.

But there's a lot of times of like it's not just solely on me. Um, I have a whole team behind me. So, there will be moments where I'll do that and I'll come back in the locker room and I'll just sit and I'll wait for Sab to say something. I'll wait for Stewie or JJ because it's collaborative.

As the point guard, I talk enough. The ball is always in my hands. I'm always directing and pointing. And so, sometimes it is good for me just to sit back and shut the up, too.

>> It sounds like these are skills you had to learn. You were maybe not this way.

>> No.

>> When you were younger?

>> No. Is there a story you can share of young Tosh in sports or not? Sort of experiencing an adversity or a hardship and how you reacted with that fire sort of the older the younger version of you.

I mean, um, man, I feel like I'm about to go deep with this question, but I think the very um beginning for me and my story is that uh my mom is my real mom.

My dad would technically be my stepdad, but that's not who he is to me. That is my real father.

Emma Mloud is the man that took me in and raised me and gave me everything that I needed to be successful in life.

And the same with my mom. You know,

>> if you're cool with it, I want to sort of break down what you're talking about.

>> You were raised by who and where?

>> Emil and Sharon Cloud in Broomall, Pennsylvania, right outside of Philadelphia.

Um, an allh family. I'm the only one of mixed race in my family.

Even uh just going back this weekend for a funeral. Um, seeing my whole family, it's just like, man, I literally am the black sheep.

But I will say in my family's defense, like I truly never felt different in my family.

And so I I was so innocent and people really get tickled by this one. Like I tell them, but I'm like I was like 11, like when I was like, "Oh, I'm blackety black."

Cuz my dad, he actually tans like like I'm not even playing. Like we would be the same color.

And I'm like, "Oh, I just keep it for the duration." like this just a year round thing for me. Yeah.

>> That shows how innocent children truly are and we teach them what they fully believe later in life.

Because I would have never known that I was any bit different because my family never treated me different.

>> And how did your mom or your dad or your siblings back when you were 11 before you sort of clocked that you were different? like how did they did they talk about about you and and your relation to the family or it wasn't it was like not an exception at all just something you didn't speak about

>> it was just like this is our family

>> this is what our family looks like and this is I've never like me and my siblings are technically half siblings none of us would ever say that

>> but at the time too you didn't know

>> I didn't know I didn't know and so you know it it comes to the point where like you as a kid start getting curious and you're intrigued and you're starting to see how like again that outside world is treating you.

So, shout out to my mom for the relationship that we do have that I was even comfortable to just be like what's going on.

So, like I can literally tell you when I asked her, how I asked her.

>> Please, if you want to, I would love to know that story.

>> We were just on the way to Blockbuster and I was like, man, like what what is this? Like, why do I look different than our old our family?

I think I was like 12 for real. And my mom was just like I mean she just kind of laid it out for me like

this is what happened. Um you know it was a tough time in our marriage. This is her and your dad.

>> Yeah. This is what happened and I made a decision that you know I take full responsibility of and she was like your dad was amazing because the moment I told him yes he's hurt as a man he's hurt. Um

And what was the decision? Did she tell you like I had an affair? How did she say it? Do you remember?

>> Yeah. essentially said it in like what a strong woman to just be like man this is what it is when her kid is asking her. Um and there wasn't like any secrets from my mom about the situation.

The only thing that and I really appreciated that my mom did this in hindsight of like when you're 18 I will tell you his name. I will tell you everything

>> who is your biological father.

>> Yeah. My sperm donor. uh whenever like when you're 18 and you're of age and you can make like that adult decision of whether you want to go look for him or not, that will be like I will tell you on your 18th birthday immediately.

And I was like, okay, I respect that. Um obviously I was left with like a lot of questions.

>> Oh my god, how are you supposed to, you know, just continue?

>> I remember going home and just being like,

so he didn't want me. That's essentially what it comes down to, right?

And you're a kid that's like, well, at least I wanted in this home.

So even from like a young kid, I knew um my dad took care of everything that I ever needed. He's given me everything that I've ever needed.

So there's no need to go look for this sperm donor. Like there's no need I don't have a want to.

And so when I was 18 and my mom like I remember come down for school while I was in my Catholic school outfit and she was like, "Do you want to know?" And I was like

>> a few years later you you were 18 and it was the time Yeah. you could ask this question.

>> Yeah. And I'm like, "Yeah, I want to know." Um, and she told me he lived a town over.

His son was super athletic, played football at a local school. Um, and it's like crazy because it's like I know you saw my name. I know you saw my mom's name in that paper. I know you saw my dad's name in that paper.

>> You were a super successful.

>> I'm super successful. I'm playing at all local schools. I'm in the newspaper constantly. So, I'm like, I know you are seeing me.

Um, and my mom was like, what do you want to do? And I was like, I just wanted to know. Like that for me was the I think final like chapter close to me is like I just wanted to know his name.

Um I wanted to know where he was from. I wanted to know just about him. Um and that was to the extent that I ever wanted to know him.

I didn't ever feel like I needed to go and be like this is who the I am. This is who you left. You don't deserve you don't deserve to know me. You don't deserve to even sit down in front of me. You don't deserve that.

Um I don't I don't even know what I would call it like that privilege to me to my energy and to who Emma Cloud raised me to be. You don't get that and Sharon.

So yeah, that was I think that was like my first I would say adversity in life. But it literally has shaped me and molded me into who I am, who why I am the way I am. And especially in my activism, like

I've had to deal with my own siblings voting for Trump

when you need to navigate and talk to frustrating ass people. I've done it. I've done it in my own family.

Uh I've had people that have been like, "You're racist." I'm like, "In a allwhite family? You don't know me."

>> I'm just thinking about it's so vivid in your mind. It's clear, you know, on the way to Blockbuster, coming down the stairs and your Catholic, there are these moments in your life that are burned into your brain. These like pivotal moments.

And I'm so struck that your first reaction wasn't rage as we spoke about. It was love for your mom and love for your dad.

>> Absolutely.

>> And I don't I just want to call out like I don't think that I've heard stories about people realizing, you know, maybe their their parent wasn't who they thought they were. That is not a reaction that everyone has. Immediate

compassion for your parents, for your mom who made this choice. understanding of even what it means as a 33year-old that has been in relationships and how hard relationships are to maintain and

to uh commit to to to withstand all the trials and tribulations of it. Like

I understand my mom more so now as an adult too, which is like really cool. But

yeah, even from a young time, I think like I've always been rooted in love.

Even my dad to take me in as his own, that's rooted in love.

>> You keep saying that. I mean, that's another remarkable aspect of the story.

>> What a good man.

>> I mean, and did she share with you when when you were young sort of what that conversation between them was like, if there even was a conversation?

>> I mean, she had to tell him.

>> Well, that's true.

>> A, she's pregnant and B, this baby going to come out a little bit brown. So, we got to tell we got to tell him.

question be to be honest with him like I I commend her for that for um even being able to sit down and have that conversation. But

um she like even told me like without hesitation he was like

man to see how much my dad loves my mom even despite all that how much he loved me and my siblings. I'm one of five. So like I truly never ever needed anything else besides him. I feel wholeheartedly rooted in that.

>> Can I ask you like did you ever have a conversation with your dad about what this meant to you and your relationship?

>> Uh, honestly, no. Cuz my dad is like such a simple man.

Even when like like I remember having to tell my mom that I was gay and I like was crying and sobbing and I was like and she was like, "Why are you crying?"

I'm like, "I don't know. This is a lie. I don't even feel like I should have to come home and tell you that I'm dating a girl. I feel like I should be able to bring my person home

and that be normalized. But even like with that, I never told my dad I was gay. I literally just brought my girlfriend home and he was like, "It's nice to meet you."

Like my dad is like truly the most simple. Everyone that meets him, he looks like the old man from Up.

Um, he is like the sweetest hearted. Everyone loves talking to him. Everyone random ass strangers. So like this is just who my dad is.

He really wants my mom to retire. And he was just like I'm like what does that mean? like what what do you need? Cuz they won't ever ask for anything.

Like they won't even let me take over the phone bill.

>> You still on the family plan?

>> I'm still on the family plan. And I still send my it's like my mom finally as I think she kind of forgot and I hope she don't listen to this and I hope it doesn't remind me. Don't send her this part.

And I'm like I'm 33. I've played in this year 10 years. Like I can afford the

something. Um and it was like the first time he's ever been like I just want your mom to retire and like

be good. So this is what she needs. I was like okay I can do that. I'm like, "What do you need?"

And he like starts tearing up. I'm like, "Don't cry cuz I'm going to cry."

He's like, "I don't need anything. I just want your mom taken care of."

I'm like I'm like, "I'm going to cry now." I'm like, "Man, you have given me a life that I couldn't even dreamed of. You took me in as your own when you didn't have to."

And I think navigating a world full of men that aren't of quality, it shows how rare he is.

>> Yeah.

>> And so, like, I do want to take care of him, too. I do want to take care of my parents so much, and I think every kid should.

I want them to have experiences that we never had as kids because we couldn't afford to.

Um, and that I can give them now. And even for my parents to still be so proud and not want to take from their kids.

I think it's really rare. And especially in our profession too, you have you have families that bleed people out of their contracts.

You have you have families that just take advantage of players and and use them as like a cash cow.

My family has never taken anything from me. I truly have um the best parents in the world.

Even my siblings that vote for Trump, like y'all irritate my ass. But I know that if I ever needed to be defended or they needed to step in for me, they would.

And I think that's what come what it comes down to is just like everything that I do is rooted in love because everything that I've ever known has been rooted in love.

You learn this, you learn the name, let's say, of your sperm donor, as you call him, at 18.

>> Yes.

Um, which is such a intense time because you're going off to college.

>> Yeah. And I wonder like once you got to college, were you like, "Oh my god, I need to make black friends." Like how were you thinking about your identity as you moved on to that?

>> Yeah. Cuz I I think that's something that I didn't touch on is like as I was getting older, I think I was starting to not struggle with, but I wanted to know like I wasn't I grew up in a white family.

I went to all like really good schools, but predominantly white schools um in a predominantly white area.

So, I wasn't really I didn't get to experience what my blackness meant.

>> Yeah.

>> And so, uh, my first college was University of Maryland.

And when I tell you I the thing that I love most and still to this day about, uh, UMD is the diversity that is on campus.

And I, as an 18-year-old, just like excited to get out of the house and move a little bit away and to really just dive into who is who is TSH, like who am I? Um, it was the most amazing thing to me as a young mixed girl to finally just be engulfed in such beautiful blackness.

And like it wasn't even like my teammates that I really hung out with. It was the track girls. It was the football guys. It was like the other teams around campus that really just like, man, I'm indebted to them and they don't even know it of like how much they allowed me to find.

I I knew the white side. I didn't know that black like side yet.

I think before I got to Maryland, I was like, I'm a mixed kid.

Like I'm a mixed kid. That's who I am and that's who I identify with because I didn't know the that other side.

And so when I finally had my blackness, like it was the first time after that first year at Maryland that I was like, I'm really proud to be a black woman.

I am really proud to be a black woman.

And I still have to obviously like that doesn't take any away from me being proud to be mixed because I think that's also important to who I am and that's why I talk so much because I might be biased, but I think being a mixed kid and not fitting in with any other group is one of the hardest kids to be.

And so I hope in even me just talking about being mixed that one mixed kid goes home and is like I feel seen and I feel validated in whatever questions I have, whatever insecurities I have, whatever, I can start to navigate this.

And if I can get one kid to do that, that's a ultimate win for me.

I mean, you spoke about this somewhat, but as you grew more and more into this identity, into this pride, as you say, and then you go home for Christmas, for Thanksgiving, for whatever,

and you're back with your family who you love who is white,

what was that like? Like, how did you coming into your identity interact with your family relationships?

>> Yeah, I think it took them um just a second to like, oh, this is Tash. like this is new Tash that went off to college that's an adult that's figuring out and navigating her life and who she is and um I think a lot of the times too like I'm okay with being the crash out in the family because my my crashes are all validated and and backed by facts and truth and so like yeah I think I came back like a little bit radical too.

My parents are like, and this is what I love about my parents too and why I love them down bad. Like even things that they might not understand necessarily understand as two white parents um they meet me always.

Um so like I really appreciate my parents as two older white people that um have been privileged their whole entire lives.

They literally will allow themselves to hear me and to move with me.

It means the world to me and I've said that to him as of like late too of like you know I really do appreciate that you might not understand my walk of life but you understand that I'm yours so it is your job to walk this life with me and I think that's really important I think a lot of even kids to like it's an underrated thing for me to go home and even tell my family like I'm gay and not have one person say about it.

We're talking about you coming into your identity when it comes to your race.

>> Yeah.

>> You're also talking about coming out.

>> Oh, I was faking and mean straight for years. It was so annoying.

>> It was so annoying.

>> Can you I mean, if you want to talk about that, what does that mean? What does that mean?

So, it's like when you were growing up, you were like having crushes on boys or what you were saying you did.

>> So, I still tell you this as a 33year-old, if a fine ass man walks by this room, I'm going to be like, he fine.

So, I can like I appreciate it. I appreciate it, but all the other that comes with y'all, I do not I can't I can't.

But for a while and I tried. I did. I really did try.

>> Did you um I mean it's it's funny cuz these things sort of or maybe it's like when you were young, did you like have boyfriends? I mean, what was it? Okay. Yeah,

y'all. I didn't start messing with uh women until I was like 23, 24.

Like we were that was my person and um he sucked. No, I'm just playing.

We're act we're actually like still really cool as a kid now and everything.

I was going to say we were we were best friends when we were growing up and stuff so like it just made sense.

Um when did you realize you were queer or interested?

>> I always thought women were beautiful. I always would be like, "Oh, she's absolutely like gorgeous." Or whatever.

I don't think that I I was ready to navigate that space until I figured out who I was as a human being and to feel very secure in that to take that step.

Um, so when I got to the league, and this is one thing that does piss me off, this league don't turn people gay.

Like there is I will say like you don't turn people gay. It's in you. It's innately in you. It it is in you.

So, um, when I got to this league, it didn't turn me gay, but I was surrounded by strong, powerful, badass, independent, outspoken women that were so unapologetic about who they were, how they show up, what their families look like.

And I was like, man, I feel empowered to just be in this locker room and not be judged.

>> Huh.

>> Yeah. I just I I dived into it. I was like I was like, "Oh I kind of like it over here."

And I was still playing that middleman for like three years.

>> I was by publicly at least you were by for Yeah. Yeah. Or said you were by.

>> And I said I was by and like I didn't mean that when I said it. But what people don't understand is for any mask or gay person in our league or poppy stud, whatever term terminology you want to use for yourself, anyone that was deemed different,

no sponsorship dollars, no endorsement dollars because you can't sell to what? The male demographic because they didn't feel like we had enough sex appeal.

So for years, I played the, "Oh, I'm by I still do both. I still do this knowing damn right well that I wasn't ever going to mess with a man again.

>> Now, how interesting is that? Because you're saying

>> and it still happens to me.

>> Really?

>> It has gotten better over the last probably like year or so. Obviously, the stud buds weren't crazy.

I created the the poppy crops with Britney uh Sykes like 2 three years ago.

And finally, I feel like our league is slowly starting to see and not only the league, but sponsorships, endorsements outside of that is like there's a huge demographic for them.

>> My god, have you been to Barlays when you guys were playing?

>> How many straight women tell me they would leave their And this is like

But what I'm going to say is like what you're what you're pointing out is so interesting because you're saying when you were in the process of sort of coming out to yourself to other people, it's like in the locker room with the teams, you felt completely at home, seen, cared for. Yeah.

And then it's like so and that's because of the experience of being in the league. You're meeting these other gay like pro mind your business

but then it's like from the outside you can't it's this weird space you're in where you can't you can express yourself so fully with your teammates but then because of the league because of sponsorships and money and dollars you can't do it.

When did it feel and how did it feel more important to you to be true to yourself than it did like when were you ready to risk that money or that sponsorship?

I would say probably like 24.

Uh I just felt really rooted in myself. Even when I came out, like my play got better on the court.

Like I I was torching people. It was almost like I was like the Hulk that just got his like superpowers. Right.

>> What do you think that was? I love that. What do you think that was?

>> I think just like for me when you hide a part of yourself or you suppress a part of yourself, you're not fully obviously yourself.

like you're not fully you. And so you limit yourself in so many ways.

And I felt like I was limiting myself for all those years by not just being out and confident in who I am.

Cuz if I can't even be confident in who I am as a person, how the am I confident in who I am as a player?

I'm this time where you're, you know, publicly identifying as as as queer, as gay as Gay as Okay, let's just say that. Um,

I got called a Liberty lesbian last week and I kind of loved it.

>> Wait, that's kind of that's kind of nice. No, I loved it.

>> We loved that. It was in a good way.

>> How did you two, your girlfriend Izzy Harrison, let's just say

>> we love her. Look her up. You going to see I bagged a 10 out of 10. 100 out of 10. Clock it.

>> Clock it. I mean, who made the first move?

>> Isabelle. And I love telling this to everyone. I love this is my moment. This is my moment. This is my moment.

And she's going to kill me when I get home and I love you, Isabelle. But this is my moment to really just like flex.

>> Yeah. Every

>> But you DM'd her.

>> So I did, right?

She denied me hard. That was like

>> And you were like, "What's up?"

>> Yeah. She said no to me. And what did I say? We respect a woman's no.

So after that, I'm straight friendship. I might like I might have a little flirtation in the mix, but it's never it's never going to be where I make you uncomfortable.

It's never going to be I I really took that. No, it's like uh we can just be friends, but I think you're my fine ass friend. Like, that's for sure.

>> And I would love to kiss you.

>> I would love to kiss you and do all the things with you, but I don't know if you want to do that with me.

>> Wait, can I It's like So, she was giving you these hints. Finally, like you took it, but there was also a thing.

actually went to like a a massage and she was just like, "Hey, like do you want to hang out?" And I was like, "Yeah, like I absolutely do after this."

And from there it was raps. I was like, "Oh, this is what you want. You want to hang

>> like a couple's massage?"

>> No, it was like we were just working out so hard in the off season that, you know, that's our form of self-care. So, we had gone,

we had each had our own separate and then we came out in the car and it was like, "So, what you doing?"

>> Oh,

yeah. It was just like we both mustered up the courage. I guess at that point I just truly fell in love with the person.

I could have told you like 3 weeks in I was like you knew.

>> Yeah.

>> How and I always ask people this because they really I I believe it that people just know. How do you know? Was there a moment was there another moment like you look at each other in the car?

>> Our first conversation it was like us getting to know each other. the first time we've sat down oneonone and we led into like an hour conversation of just like our families, our foundation, our morals, our values.

I was like, I really align with you as as a human being and

I'll be honest about myself. I I think in that moment I was like in my whole phase and everyone has their whole phase and I'm an advocate for the whole phase because and don't like hurt people throughout your whole phase, but like you got to get all that stuff out your system.

>> Totally agree. you got to get it out. Whatever makes you happy in those moments, you just got to be Sometimes you got to be selfish in life to get what you want. And so,

yeah, I was definitely in one of those, but as soon as I met Izzy, it was like everything stopped.

Um, I feel fully fulfilled. Uh, it's the first time I've ever been fully reciprocated too in my relationship of like having an equal partner that doesn't need you but wants you.

Izzy has her own. She has her own money. She has her own like she's a Jordan athlete. She's had nine years in this league. She has her own she and what I love about her most too is like even when she was with men before me didn't pay for anything

>> cuz you are the first woman that she's been with. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

And so like I needed someone that I couldn't play with. I needed someone that was very much like my mom.

And Izzy is like damn near the reflection. You know, they say like you really do look for your parents and your partner.

even like home-cooked meals, uh, taking care of everything that we need in order to be successful.

And I I bring that same to the table, but Izzy is the first woman that ever has done that for me, too.

>> Sometimes you talk to people and you just realize what you're looking for.

And but it's funny cuz you were like, I need someone I couldn't play with.

I know what you meant, but you do play with Izzy. You're on the same team.

>> Yeah. Our first time.

>> This is an experience that very few people work with their partners, I would say. you know, very few people also play on the same sort of sports team as their runners.

And I'm so curious like how does your relationship at home influence your dynamic on the court?

I mean, I'm sure people have asked you this, but I'm I'm so I want a window into what that's like.

>> Yeah, we never tried to play together, which is the crazy part.

I was traded and so she had already signed to New York.

Um, and we had made it a very, it was a priority for us not to be on the same team.

So, you hear horror stories sometimes of previous teams that have had couples and relationships and how it can negatively. Yeah.

It can negatively affect a locker room. It can negatively affect the relationship itself because you never get any breaks from each other.

Um, so I think me and Izzy were very um, intentional about approaching this the right way and being extremely professional to no one would ever

We don't ever want to make people feel like our relationship is hindering our success as a team because the team is the ultimate most important thing for us.

So, uh, we have our own separate apartments. Now, Izzy stays our main apartment is our apartment that we have all of our dogs in.

It's a two-bedroom. is cool, but she has her own apartment for when she just needed Izzy time.

And uh I'm clingy as I'm a **金毛寻回犬**（Golden Retriever: 一种友善、忠诚的犬种）。我完全是。我自称是金毛寻回犬，但我其实是**斗牛犬**（Pit Bull: 一种强壮的犬种）。

And for those of you that have I have two. Uh for those of you that have pitles know how clingy they are.

>> Yeah. And like attention demanding. That is me.

Izzy is polar opposite. She very much is like and it's something that I love about her is like I am still my own person.

And when you talk about even like why I didn't like relationships with men, that is such an important piece for our relationship is for Izzy to still be Izzy

is to still have her own to have her own stuff.

Um, but it is, you are saying something which is like being on the same team, it's made having your own space that much more important.

Um, we we really were um a priority for us was our teammates getting TSH and Izzy as individuals.

You're always going to get your tizzy time. We're going to travel as Tizzy. We're going to go into these spaces and we're going to be tizzy while we're in these, you know, cities and stuff like that.

We have time for our relationship. We go home together every night.

But when we're in the locker room, you get TSH, you get Izzy.

So, our schedules are different. Our weightlifting times are different, our shooting times, our treatment times are different.

We're really like, we were adamant about just being TSH and Izzy in that locker room.

And when we get home, we'll be Tizzy. And it was it was hard at first of like the first two weeks

diffult. Yeah.

>> The first two weeks of navigating what does space look like for us? What does it look like? How do we manage being together all the time and not having a break?

Cuz most couples get a break when they go to win.

>> I'm saying. Yeah.

>> And I'm so proud of us for how we were able to go through this season.

So I do just wonder is it like totally hot to see your girlfriend like kill it on the court?

Like what a turn on. Isn't that is it

>> I tell her all the time. I'm like, I actually I love Izzy in some basketball gear.

Like that is to me. And even like meeting Izzy at first, I think she had been so uh in a lot of ways like women are uh conditioned to always look their best and you got to show up.

And I'll be like, you don't need none of that makeup. I love that you want it. I love that you love makeup.

I love that when you do it, you 100 out of 10. But like, man, I think you're most beautiful when you don't have no makeup on, when you're wearing my clothes in the crib.

Like that is it. So when I see her on the court, I absolutely am. There was like one game the whole crowd started chanting Izzy and I was like I was like I'm beyond that All right.

Not too much. She going to kill me if I like if I go too far with the sexual jokes.

She going to kill my my ass cuz she is very reserved. So I'm real with myself.

>> But I understand what

but you know what I'm saying. Like I'm going to yell that too.

>> I'll be like I'll be like you. That is so hot.

Here's my I want to figure out I mean and this is you know you sit before me. I watch you play. You strike me as someone who is so who knows who they are, right?

>> Man, I love myself. I think I've said that for like two weeks ago for like the first time like out loud and I remember just sitting down in my apartment and there's a little mirror that is like right across and I looked at myself and I was like, I really with who I am.

You love yourself.

>> I love myself. I love myself very thoroughly. I love my gay masculine presenting mixed black black. I just love I love me.

>> Thank you so much.

>> Oh, thank you, too.

>> Thank you. And we're done.

>> We are done.

>> Wow. Mic drops. wrapped that in such an

Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Joseph, Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poant, Lynn Levy, Reva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis.

This episode was produced by Amy Pearl, and it was edited by Lin Levy.

Special thanks to Christina Joseph, Janelle Anderson, and Sabrina Merchant.

Original music in this episode by Alicia Beetup, and Dan Powell.

Dan also composed our theme music.

This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez with studio support from Mattie Mariello and Nick Pitman.

The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.

Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.

If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've always got those instructions in our show notes.

I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.